That Triathlon Life Podcast - Racing PTO European Open Ibiza and World Triathlon Cross Championships on the same weekend, Race Ranger, Tire pressure, and more!

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

This week we spend the majority of the episode talking about the last few races Eric and Paula raced in the US and in Europe. Paula won St. Anthony's Triathlon, and then they both went to race in Ibiza, Spain. We also get to some of your questions about the new drafting detection technology, disc wheels, if wetsuits are worth it, and more! To help support the podcast, as well as submit your own question, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Lagerstrom. I'm Paula Finlay. I'm Nick Goldston. This is our triathlon podcast where we talk about how things go in our life. We talk about a little bit of what's going on in triathlon world. And I think most importantly, we take questions from everyone who listens and try to, I don't know, share a little bit of useful information as we go. Right. Eric and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a amateur triathlete, pretty fast one. And a professional musician is his real job, which he's very good at as well. Wow. And yeah, we're excited to be here. We just got back from a crazy whirlwind trip. Let's think about the last time that you guys were back at home with the podcast set up and I was here because it has been two months.

Yeah, it's so crazy. As we were leaving home two months ago, I was, it was hard to even imagine doing all the things we just did and then being back here. And in my mind, I like could not wait for it. it. I was like dreading the trip a little bit. It sounded too much time, too overwhelming to imagine doing all this. And miraculously, we have been around the world and back, and we are back in the office doing the podcast. So where have you been since you were there? So we drove down to you, Nick, and we were in Santa Monica training for a little bit. And then we went to race Oceanside. and then Eric went from Oceanside to Hawaii to film a film project.

I drove to Flagstaff. Eric met me in Flagstaff. We trained at high altitude for a month. And then we left our dog and our van in Arizona. And we flew to Florida and we race St. Anthony's triathlon. And then we flew from Florida to Europe and raced in Abiza. Abitha. I don't know how I call it Abiza.

I think it goes both ways. TH if you're fancy. I race the PTO European Open Eric race, the world cross triathlon championships in Abiza. And then we flew back to Arizona 20 hours, got our van, got our dog, and drove 20 hours home, and now we're home.

And our bodies don't have any idea what day or time it is. Yeah. But like it's kind of crazy because miraculously, we both race pretty well over in Europe. and we're kind of, it could have gone both ways,

but it went well. So we are very, at least I am very relieved about that. Would you say of the Oceanside race and the St. Anthony's race and Ibiza, you actually raced best in Spain? Yeah, I would say I did. Both of you.

Both of you did. Yeah, it was this, it was, we trended positively through the whole trip. Yeah, got a little fitter, got a little more race sharp. And it's still early. We, you know, Abiza was early May, but we both had pretty decent races. And do you feel like, I mean, this is, it's hard to tell, of course, but do you feel like the altitude training did its job?

It's hard to say. We both felt pretty awful in St. Anthony's. Paula still managed to win, got the job done. I definitely did not. But we both just really felt like we didn't have any top end and we were kind of flat and tired. and it's hard to say like definitely altitude or you know the time change or the fact that it was changed to a duathlon at the last minute but then when by the time we got to Spain and we had an extra week and everything I think bodies came around and it worked out pretty well but it's just

like a strange thing because we both sort of felt like we still didn't have like 10th you know on a scale of 1 to 10 we didn't have like 10th gear but like 9 just kind of felt like we could go forever yeah I was a little, the reason I was most nervous heading into St. Anthony's and Abiza race after altitude is that I get a lot of my confidence heading into races from having really good workouts on the bike where my power numbers are really good and impressive to me and my run paces are good and impressive. And that gives me confidence that I'll be able to go have a good race. And when you're at altitude, all of those numbers are just deflated a little bit because you're so high. So you cannot train at the same power. You can't train at the same pace on the run. And you just have to kind of accept that and have confidence that there's other benefits you're getting. And it's not all about pushing these crazy high numbers. So I didn't have a single workout in Flagstaff where I was like, wow, that was really good. I can go into these races and hold this power.

It was just like, okay, that was kind of underwhelming. But because we're so high up, that was equivalent to doing X at C level. So it kind of messes with your mind a bit and you just have to kind of let go of it and be okay with it. And having our coach there helped a lot because he can kind of help guide us through what we should expect and what we should feel like when you're training that high up. I'm going to connect some dots here. You raced really well at Daytona after not having put too much pressure on yourself and just kind of going on race. You also raced really well here where I don't know if this is okay to say, but you told me that you were expecting to get like 15th place going into this race. Wait. Oh, at European Open?

Yes. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Low expectations for yourself. Yeah. I don't. You don't see a connection? I think the mental space and the events leading up to these two races could not be more different.

I agree. I was the biggest stress bomb of all time leading into this European Open. Okay, got it. I had zero confidence in anything. And the field was insane. Like just world championship quality field, probably even actually more competitive than St. George World Championships Championships last year. and I just thought

I could have an okay race like the kind of race I deserve for how I feel and come 15th or 20th or whatever it is. So just because the feel was so strong. Right. Okay, so I will not connect those dots actually.

Yeah, I don't know what dots you're trying to connect there but it was not about like being chill and relaxed. I think it's not that it was yeah, it was not like a less pressure you know because I'm thinking I could get 15th or like it was just wow. It was like, wow, I'm expected to come third or top three, but I feel like I'm going to come last.

That was my feelings. Got it. To summarize really quick, if you want to hear more about our St. Anthony's race, because we just race so much, we can't do full recaps of everything on the podcast. But we did a pretty good recap on the vlog. So we talk about St. Anthony's there with a lot of actually kind of cool clips that our friend Samantha got. She traveled with us and got really good photos and video all week. But I guess we could dive a little bit into. our races that we just had in Spain and then answer the questions, a lot of which actually

that were sent in are related to the races and to travel and all these things. So that could be kind of the theme, hey? Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. So Eric, do you want to start with your race? And you did not race the PTO European Open. You did something a little bit different. And it wasn't Extera world. So do you want to describe what that race is in the first place? And why you did it? Yeah, so the initial reason that I did it was we were trying to come up with some sort of justification why I should get a $2,000 plane ticket to a company, Paula, to Abisa, that wasn't just so I could build her bike. Because the PTO does a great job with media coverage. They do a great job with they have a full-time mechanic.

They have a massage person that you can access. It's like all the things that I would do are pretty taking care of. And with the travel being expensive, it does. didn't quite pencil out, but then Paula realized that because it was attached to the ITU World Championship Festival, I could race the cross triathlon, which is the ITU's version of Xterra, swim, mountain bike, trail run. And there's like $7,500 to win it, and the prize money didn't drop off super hard. So like, all right, I mean, like, I could go. And if I get, as long as I get in the top five-ish, it kind of pencils out and we can go together and have an experience. It'll be fun.

It was not even really about the prize money. Like, I think the appeal was that it's kind of fun as well. Like, Eric really likes racing off road. It was a fairly short distance race. It was like, it took 90 minutes total. So it wasn't like this huge taxing five or four hour race. And it was the day before my race. So you could just.

Yeah. To be clear, like, I would not have done the IT long course world. Too long. It was, this happens to be a thing that I'm very interested in and love doing. And there's a little bit of fine. financial incentive and Paula's going. So it was like a perfect suite of things. But yeah, like Paul said, ultimately, it just sounded really cool.

Yeah. And the fact that it was the day before is very good because you historically... Much better. Don't erase great the day after Paula races because you're so emotionally spent. Yeah. Yeah. That was a very, very cool thing. It was actually on the opposite side of the island, which was a little bit logistically

complicated. I had to drive over and back each day basically to go see the course and go to the race briefing and stuff. But ended up being totally fine. And I like really got the chance to brush up on my manual. Nice. Dick shift driving skills. It's a very small island though. I mean for in our race, we almost went to the other side and back four times. Yeah. Very small. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. It's like 20k. Okay. Yeah. From like tip to tip sideways, it's like 20k. But yeah, anyway, it's The distances were 1K swim, like a 21K mountain bike ride, and a 6K run. And how much climbing on those mountain biking and running portions? I want to say the run had 100 meters in it.

The mountain bike had like 300 meters, and then the swim has no elevation. Okay, yeah, well, thank God. Which is not, it doesn't sound like a ton, Nick, but it's a pretty short distance. Yeah, it doesn't sound like a ton. Yeah. It was very punchy. The run was not like wildly hilly. It was definitely, definitely not flat, but it's just very punchy.

Like you're getting all of these like 100 meters or the 300 meters on the bike, like in these really steep bursts at just crazy, crazy high power because you're going so fast because it's such a short race. So anyway, like I was saying, it's like one and a half, it's like 75% the length of an Xera and was just so, so fun. Do you feel like the gear was right, the wetsuit, the bike, the shoes, were they right for the race? Yeah, totally. It ended up being a wetsuit swim, which I was a little bit surprised by the day before the race.

They measured the water temperature at like 20.3, which is over. The wetsuit cut off is 20. And then, of course, one hour before the race, they measured it at 19.7. and it ended up being a wetsuit race. So we're there like underneath this cold shower trying to get cold water into our wetsuit so we don't overheat and the 25 degrees Celsius air temperature getting ready for this race.

And I think I definitely would have had a little bit better swim relative to my competitors if it had been a non-wetsuit swim. The XTERA off-road triathlon scene is certainly not known for its swimability. Right. They're good, but it's just, they're not quite at the level of like ITU

short course athletes or like a 70.3 world's front pack. But I got out of the water in like in the lead group of three like five seconds back of the leader or whatever and then just like went as hard as I could. I went as hard as I possibly could the first like five minutes of this bike and still got just like completely rolled up by the French team. Just crazy. I was telling you. Yeah, you like you come out of transition. You kind of do this like 400 meter road climb that's just gradual. while you're putting on your shoes

and you get on a dirt road for a couple minutes and then you immediately hit this pretty steep, loose climb and then you pop out onto a road and this road that you pop it onto is like 8%. And I'm going up this 8% climb there having not completely gotten caught by everybody yet. And I'm going, I looked down, I saw 497 watts seated on my mountain bike.

Jesus. And these two French guys just like just like go ride and ride by me right by right by me dude it was crazy they must have been i mean maybe they were doing the same watts as me but they weigh 30 pounds less i don't know but yeah it was it was really impressive so i managed to like get on their wheels and make it over the top of the climb and then the interesting thing was they just like chilled as soon as we got up the climb they kind of all looked around and it was like all right that happened and now we're good and i'm just like, oh no, like we are not letting anybody else catch on to this group.

We got to go. So I just like slingshotted by him and just went into like 70.3 TT mode on this little road section. And I actually ended up leading the whole first lap of the bike is two 10K, two laps, 10K each lap. And then the second time up that really steep, loose climb, they just like kind of made another move. But it was pretty, it became pretty apparent to me that the dynamic here is like, crazy, crazy, crazy on the uphills, and then you just, you recover on the downhills or anything that's not a crazy single track uphill. Right. Yeah, that seems to be the M.O. in mountain biking in general, right? It's like, especially at the beginning. It's like,

get ahead, whatever it takes to get ahead, because it's so challenging to pass then during the race. Yeah. I was watching the live, just the tracker updates that were like twice per lap. And I saw Eric leading the whole first lap. And then it was like a minute gap on the second lap. And I thought for sure something mechanical had happened. But I think it is just these guys put these big surges in. And if I think you had trained more specifically for this, you may have been able to hold with that. But it is a cool thing that you came back and you're like, oh, I want to do more of these races. I know now what I need to work on.

And it is different kind of training than 70.3 specific training, which is what we've been doing. So I think it was from my perspective a good learning opportunity to race the best off-road guys and see what their strengths are. to try to match yours to that. And then was, did the run feel mostly like this, like what you expected? Because the bike seemed like it was a bit of a surprise how much they were pulling up those hills. But I mean, I kind of, I knew that was going to be the case, but I felt really good. And they were still. Right.

Like, really cranking. So I was kind of, I was kind of assuming that I would feel like pretty good. And that would happen. But to feel like, I felt pretty good on the day. And to still be getting to drop missing. miserably on that second lap was really impressive. And I think Paul is right. I think if I go into the next few months and just like the buildup to Xero worlds

and really hit some more like five by two minutes or eight by two minutes uphill, whatever, you know, I'll talk to Paula, my coach about it. Rather than three by 20 minutes, you know, at 70.3 pace, I think I'll be able to be able to continue to sustain those high-level surges in the second 30 minutes of the mountain bike. And then the run was, yeah, pretty much what I expected. Right. Not a surgy. I mean, I wasn't in a pack at that point.

For the most part, it had then broken up and I could see Ruben Razoffa. He was like 30 seconds ahead of me. I ended up running maybe 15 seconds faster than him, but I couldn't quite catch him. And there certainly kind of feels like a little bit of an absolute limit that you're able to hit while running because you have to run down technical things.

Yeah, yeah, you can sprint up the hills as much as you can, but you still have to be able to, like, turn a corner really fast and do these, do this, like, technical moves, you know? It's not purely a fitness thing. But the same thing. I just, I'll do a little bit more hill running, I think, is the biggest thing. And then I already like to run trails anyway. It's crazy to think how different that is from the kind of racing we did in the European Open

and how many athletes could do that crossover from the, the road side to the exterior side. I don't think there's many. So it's pretty impressive to be able to jump from one to the other and have the skills to do it. I think on the women's side, like probably only Heather Jackson could do that. And maybe Eric and I don't know, there's a couple more guys who probably could do it. Yeah, I think that there's, I think probably some athletes from Paula's race could complete it. But being, I just, I can't impress how fast these guys are at like putting out 400 watts while like scrambling up and over roots and rocks on this like 8 to 10% trail

and turning at the same time. Like it's it's when I finish like a hard mountain bike like that, like my entire body is tired. I can't swim well the next day just because of how physical it is with you're moving everything that you've got. Yeah. That's that's a that excites me. That makes me want to do a race like that. It's for it's super fun man. It's oh really? It makes me, makes me never want to. All of your senses are engaged. And I think that's what I'm a little bit searching for these days in sport is something where all of my focus is not necessarily on, okay, can I do 307 instead of 305?

And I hurt. And I'm like acutely aware of every burning sensation in each muscle versus like I just can get lost in the excitement of not falling over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And Paula, you basically had, you had to have the exact opposite.

Exactly what Eric is saying. He didn't have to worry about. It's like, nose to the grindstone. How can I sustain this power this whole time? How can I sustain this run? A little bit. But in a race of that level that I just did, it's, it is a little more tactical on the bike. There are more people around that are also really strong.

So it's less about just like putting out as much watts as you can for two hours. But yeah, totally different race than what Eric did, just in terms of the technical skills and everything. But he got back from his race and he was in a good mood, and that's kind of all I could have asked for. I was going to ask you, like, did that change your race dynamic in your mind? He's like, okay, Eric's happy. I don't have to worry about anything.

I'm just going to go race tomorrow. Not really. I think Eric was, he was pretty low stress about the whole thing. It could have gone well. It could have gone bad. I think he would have been okay with it just because it was such a, a kind of not random thing, but it was more of a last minute thing that he decided to do. And the real pressure was on me, I feel like, to live up to the expectations that were built up

and win money at this race because we'd spent so much to get over there. But no, he got back and he was in a good mood. He was excited about Exterra and off-road and wants to do more of it. And that was great. and it took a little bit of pressure off me, I guess. But really, I was just focused the first or the whole day on, like, going to our race meeting and doing my pre-race workouts and then following the tracker for his race. And then he was back by 2 p.m.

So it was all very fast. And pre-race day, I'm always crazy nervous, don't want to race the next day. Like, I get in that mindset. And so whether he raced or not, I think I was going to be like that. Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of nice that he could go do his own thing the day before and not be in my bubble of nerves and stress all day. Did you at all transfer to a state of like, okay, no, I'm going to race, I got this? Or did that never happen until you were in the race?

Never. And confirm that never happened. Even in the race, that didn't happen. Actually, while I was on the bike, I had these thoughts of like, okay, this is going better than I thought. I think no matter. And I was like, okay, well, even if I run like shit, I still, Eric will be proud of how I biked. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

I feel like this is a good moment to say that I was having a funny conversation with another female pro post race. And just to like make it so that everybody understands that Paula's not completely all by herself. And this female pro is telling me about how midway through the bike they were thinking all they want to do is just have a baby. I want to quit immediately and go have a baby The pain of childbirth over this race right now Or no, just like I want to retire But I never felt really in this race that I wanted to quit triathlon Which is different than I feel

In Oceanside in St. Anthony's When I was thinking like This could be my last race ever But there were a couple factors And the swim actually, it was very choppy, but it felt very easy. And I don't know if that's an altitude thing. An altitude thing maybe. And also these DeBoer wetsuits are so floaty that you just like almost can't kick in them.

It's a very weird feeling. So it's almost like I'm just doing pull. My heart rate is so low. And I wasn't in the fastest swim pack. But because it was so hectic and wavy, I kind of just found myself around like Ellie and Ashley Gentle and I just kind of decided to stick there and stay there. And although my effort wasn't high, I wasn't going to try to go around them. It's not like I'm fast enough to bridge a gap up to Holly.

So I'm like, just be patient. I'm with some good, pretty good swimmers and this will be a good little pack to come out of the water with. So very relaxed on the swim. Got on the bike. And Paulo had said to me the day before my coach, like a lot of these, these really, really competitive races will come down to the run. So try to be a big tactical on the bike and don't just go to the front and try to pull everyone up to the front of the race. So I was super aware of that.

And what helped a lot, I think, in this race, keeping it a fair and B, engaging is the race ranger technology that we used. And I think there's a question about this later in the podcast. But essentially, we all had these devices put on our bikes where they have lights on them. and you have one on your fork and one on your seatpost. And if you get within 20 meters of the rider ahead of you, it blinks red. If you're at 22 meters, it's blue. And if you're at 25, it's orange. So as long as you're not in the red zone, you're at the legal distance.

So this was like a really good visual cue for everyone to keep the legal distance, including me, because sometimes it's hard to see what 20 meters looks like. Yeah, for me, it's like one of the main things that stresses me out the night before a race is thinking about like, man, how do I know for sure that I'm at the legal distance and somebody can't slot in front of me and I'm not going to get a penalty? And so it's like so hard to like really know when your heart race that high and be confident in it and this like takes that away a lot. Eric, this happens to you. It has happened to you multiple times in big races where people have slotted in in front of you and questionable legality of that. So this would really fix that.

Yeah, totally. And I feel like part of that's because I probably when I'm sitting at, when I I leave a little too much room. Yeah, I leave like just one meter more than I absolutely could because I'd rather play it safe. And then that gets capitalized on. So anyway, go ahead, Paula. Yeah, Lucy was like two minutes ahead of me out of the water. And in the first lap of the bike, of which there were four laps, I think I pulled a minute on her. And then I caught a group of like the Holly and the Finella group and kind of just stayed with them for a little bit.

thinking about this tacticalness that I wanted to be aware of so that I didn't fry myself for the run. But if I could go back in time, I think I would have just kept riding that hard because after I caught that group and led that group for a lot of it, but also kind of sat in a little bit, the gap kind of stayed the same to Lucy. So I closed it so much and then it stayed the same. So going back in time, I think I would like have a little more confidence in my power and my ability to ride pretty hard and try to keep. But yeah, the race ranger did really change the dynamics because people would come around me and I'd have to completely let off the gas because the thing or their thing would be blinking red until it got to the zone where I was outside of the 20 meters. And then it would be a huge surge to repass them. So I mean, that's just the nature of these races and the, yeah, there is a tactical part of it as well. I just remember in Oceanside, like part of the lesson we learned for you was to not pull everyone along on the bike, right?

So I like that you at least try to put that into action. And I mean, at least you didn't do that, right? And you did run. I mean, you ran at least very consistently. I don't think like just from what you said, I don't think you're like necessarily super stoked on the pace. But you looked very consistent the whole day, no blow up. And it sounds like you weren't in a super negative uncomfortable space necessarily. Yeah, I was never in an uncomfortable space for the entire race, which is good, I guess.

It might just be like an altitude thing or maybe I didn't push as hard as I could have and should have. But you have to understand my headspace before this race was so negative and so doubting of what I could do that I was maybe a bit complacent when things were going okay. Like, okay, let's just stick with this. This is way better than you thought you were doing. going to be able to do. So I think as the season goes on and I get more confident, I feel like I belong up in these races and I have some more experience with the race, like all these things. I'll be like, okay, I belong at the front and just, it'll be a different headspace. It'll be a different headspace. It's so crazy to hear you say this. And I feel like it's good for age groupers who listen to this

podcast to hear this. Paula Finley ranked at the time third in the world, do I belong here? should I be doing this? We all have these things and that never goes away. I think that's in your head all the time. Yes, it's in your head all the time. It's just amazing to hear you guys say it too. What's crazy about, one more thing about Race Ranger is that when you see what 20 meters looks like, what it actually is because we rode at 20 meters the whole time,

it is absolutely fucking insane that Iron Man is 12 meters because that's like half. And 20 meters is not even that much. Like we're still getting a draft effect and you see it in the watts. Like someone comes around me, I'm 20 meters behind. My watts are dropping down. So no wonder there's these giant packs an Iron Man. 12 meters is nothing. 12 meters is you're putting out way, way, way less watts.

How much less would you say? Does it feel like you're at the pro women's speed? For the 12 meters? Yeah. No, for 20. For 20. So the PTO 20 meters, how many watts do you think you're saving? 20? I don't know. It's so hard because you never know if somebody like passes you and gets to the front. And then slows down. And they need to slow down, which happens every time. Yeah. But do you have like a like if you had to guess for just for the listeners to give them an idea? And obviously the listeners aren't going as fast as you guys are going. So that's going to be less. Maybe like 10 or 15 or 20 or I don't know. Yeah. Okay. But it changed like my average watts for the last three laps and I was kind of playing in the pack a little bit were so low because there was so much time where I'd see it blinking around and I have to completely ease.

off and be had zero watts. So the average power just drops so significantly because the consistency of just putting down power is not there. So Lucy riding very consistently at the front would have not had to worry about all this and just had like a lot better overall power. But yeah, it's just like learning as we go in these big competitive fields. Oh, I think it's great. I love the idea because we hear about this all the time.

And the athletes like it, the fans are going to like it because we hate seeing people get drafting penalties, but we hate seeing people draft even more. Yeah. And the refs were just using it as like a guide. They could have given out penalties, regardless of what the race ranger said. Right.

That's the thing. It still takes a referee to make that call. Make the call. Yeah. The penalties aren't automatic, right? The refs gets the data and they make the call. Exactly. Decide that your red light was blinking for long enough

to necessitate a penalty and intentional cheating. Yeah, cool. And then so you feel like you conserve some energy, maybe too much on the bike, and then how'd the run go? The run was like fine. It was a lot of laps. It was six laps. So the crowd was crazy. It was a super cool venue.

I think that the lapping nature of it made it go by quickly because you just had people around you all the time cheering, which doesn't happen a lot in races where you're doing too big out and back. and you hardly see anyone and you're kind of just in your own head. So I really like that part of it. But the running and this level of racing is just getting so, so fast. Like I can have a pretty good run and still be four minutes slower than the best runners out there. So yeah, it's just I was, again, maybe a bit too complacent. I was like, okay, this is fine.

I'm in fifth. Great. I'll be happy with fifth. And it wasn't like racing for fourth or anything. Like maybe that was a bad mind. mindset to be in. But because I know how everyone races and how fast they are, I could kind of like calculate as I was going, okay, I'm going to catch this person, but then Emma's going to catch me and I just have to hold off Tamara and I'll be fifth. So I kind of was just like playing it

out of my head as it was going and that ended up being how it finished. So yeah, I don't know. Tamara was chasing me down on the last lap. She got within like 15 seconds of me, which, oh, that's not a nice feeling. It happened to Indian Wells. So there's not much you can do to hold her off. I'm like, this is as fast as I can go right now. But, um, Eric talked about this last year a couple of times with like going to that well. Like, how many times can you go to that well and really dig deep and scrape the bottom for every last thing that you got? And I feel like if it's a world championship event or something, like, that's one thing. But when it's May, like, I don't know if, is it really worth it to

like squeeze out every drop to just like then hate it and spend the next. six weeks mentally recovering from what that ever felt like? I thought, I'm not sure. I mean... Yeah, I don't know if I, like, physically could have gone a ton deeper than I did just based on my physiological limitations. But I did, I didn't finish that race and think, oh, that was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Right. You know? Which I've thought before. A couple times, yeah. So I could have, it must have been, like, somewhat controlled. Well, I just kind of wanted to get your main takeaway from you both, from that. from this race. It seems like Eric,

is it kind of like those short efforts? Yeah. Eric's excited for Extero Worlds, which... My main takeaway is that I'm... I was feeling a little bit in a mode

coming out after Oceanside and after St. Anthony's a bit of like, man, I just cannot fathom really right now going and doing a bunch of time trial bike efforts to get ready for. I'm not really sure what. I can't really get that excited

about any of the races that are coming up. up with the exception of Alcatraz. And now, after doing that, I'm, like, extremely excited to go train. And I feel like I kind of know what I need to do. And I have this direction and purpose. And that's, like, a very exciting feeling for me. That's the best.

Yeah, that's the best. And Paula, do you feel like, do you like, I mean, you kind of already said this, but I'm curious about the bike tactic stuff. I feel like that was kind of like the main takeaway from Oceanside, among other things, actually. But do you feel like, is there one thing that you feel like, that you feel like you could tell yourself, like that you actually are better at now at racing,

or at least in the timeline of this year you feel more confident about? I think that if I mirror how I'm doing now and how I felt at this race to last year at this time, it's fairly comparable. Like I had a not Great Oceanside. I won St. Anthony's, but it wasn't super fit. And then I had an okay Chattanooga race. So I think that like racing in May

and then trying to decide how your rest of your season's going to go based on this time of year is not really fair. And I ended up having a great summer. So I feel like I'm on track for that if I just can stay healthy. And I didn't have a disastrous race in Europe. And it was a fear mostly because of how much we'd invested time-wise and financially to get there. And it's a huge trip, like so much traveling. And a lot of stress, a lot of mental energy that goes into. performing on that stage.

And you can't tap into that too often in the year. It's just too stressful. And maybe I'm one of the only ones that feels that, like, in a draining way, the amount of hype that you need to have to get ready for that type of a race. Based on the people that I talk to, you're not the only one. I'm not the only one. No, no, no. But I don't think that because I didn't podium at PTO, European Open in May,

or because I didn't win it, it doesn't mean that I'm not in a good spot right now. I think that I'm appropriately building my fitness and getting a little bit better every race. And even when I didn't feel my absolute best, I could still be in the mix at a race of that caliber. So that's nice, that's a nice feeling. I think a big takeaway that we were discussing,

which doesn't, I don't feel like we have a great solution for it, is actually the mental strain not of the race itself and going to the well there, but the mental strain of the month of preparation for an event of that nature where you feel like it's going to be a world championship field, it's going to take your best day to have a result that you're proud of. And like our time in Flagstaff was quite stressful for that reason.

And like rightfully so, if I had been towing the line like Paula was at that sort of an event, I would have been completely stressed and feeling like every workout needed to be the best workout possible. and like ideally ideal situation we would say no we're just not going to do the european open it's a little too early for us to feel like totally ready and good about it and have all the necessary things we want to just focus on 70.3 worlds and the u.s open and we'll put all our eggs in that basket and you know the month before those won't be quite a stressful because we'll feel like it's good timing but when there's a race of this caliber and the pTO points matter and the prize money matters you feel like you have to show up to these you And I think that's, you know, like I said, I spent a lot of time talking to other athletes and significant others of other athletes. And that's like a hard thing that we're staring at right now is how do you use those matches that you have to burn when it feels like you have to go to all of these races to be relevant and to have the PTO points and everything. Yeah, looking at the points now, though, I don't regret going.

I think they were fairly distributed. And I think I got like 92 points for the European Open Race, which is more points than I got for second at 70.3 Worlds last year. So I think it was worth the trip. Money-wise, I mean, the prize-perse difference from last year is quite significantly less. So that didn't pencil out as well. I think it was worth it in a lot of aspects. But just like the question comes up, like, is that mentally sustainable to do that?

four times a year. I agree. And it's ultimately up to me to be more chill about it and to not have. It like flikes out there. There were so many factors. Just I'm away from home and an unusual environment at altitude. There were a lot of things that made me not happy there. So I feel like that was just like a disaster waiting to happen when I eventually would go to race.

But somehow I made it work. And it does take a lot of courage, I think. to, and a lot of athletes did this to train for a race like that and not take the easy way and go to St. George, 70.3, which would have been a four-hour drive. And, yeah, packing up and going to Europe is a lot bigger of a production for a race that you don't feel totally ready for. But I think that we needed to do it.

And it was the right thing to do. And it ended up, we ended up racing well, which is like the icing on the cake. But there's a lot of positives that came out of it. Yep, agree. And using the word courage there, I really like that. Because I think a lot of athletes, we think of like, oh, let's qualify for world championships or whatever. We'll pick a race that suits my strengths and that's close and that maybe the fastest people won't be at.

Yeah. It's like this is the exact opposite of that. Yeah. It's like crazy, crazy field. Yeah. Everyone keeps saying in all the interviews, like, especially the men, you're like, oh, I love this. I love racing the best athletes in the world. It's just you can see where you're at and that's what I live for.

I just love racing the best. And it's like, yeah, we all kind of do, but also we all kind of want to win. So I don't know if that's like my favorite thing ever racing, all the best athletes in the world every single time I go race. But it definitely keeps you humble. Yeah, right. Okay, first question here is from Brad, and it's related. Hi, TTL, congratulations on your races in Ibiza.

While watching the European Open, I noticed all of the racers had some sort of device under or in your kits on your upper back. Emma Pallant Brown even had it taped, her skin since she was wearing a swimsuit instead of a full try kit. Is it some sort of transponder to track where you're at on course? It seemed quite bulky and large. Also, if it hasn't been asked already, how is your first race to the race ranger? Eric, I hope your V-shaped sunburn is healing well. Ouch. Take care. Brad. So yeah, what is Brad talking about? Yeah, so for these, the PTO loves the broadcast. They're all about making an engaging

visual experience where the watchers can learn about the sport and all the athletes. And so part of that is having these GPS trackers in our suits. So we all had to bring our kits to the PTO three days early and they actually sewed a pocket into each kit. Pretty well, actually. They like matched the color of the thread and everything as best they could. And put these GPS trackers in our backs, which were about the size of a credit card and maybe the width of an iPhone. So not small, but. I couldn't feel them too much.

The most annoying thing was actually in a wetsuit because it kind of added this bulk to your upper back where you could definitely feel it when the zipper was up. Right where the zipper is, yeah. Yeah, but while I was racing, I didn't even notice it. And we also actually had to wear heart rate straps on our arms, like the polar heart rate sensors. And so we felt like a little bit like walking, you know, gadgets.

We had all these things strapped to us. And the race rangers on our bikes. And it's all for, you know, we're all equalized. because everybody has to do it. So it's not like a disadvantage to anyone to have these things on. But I actually don't know how the broadcast was because I didn't watch it. But if all these things were actually useful and enhanced the visual experience. But hopefully they did.

I don't recall. I didn't watch all of it because I was there in person and cheering and whatever. But in the bits that we watched while we were waiting for you to come around each time on the laps, on the bikes, I don't remember them referencing. Oh, Lucy's at heart rate 146. But the data was there on the screen. Eventually they want to have like power and, yeah, all these different metrics. I like that.

Like, to me, as a triathlete and a fan of pro triathlon, I would be extremely interested and engaged to see power numbers and like live paste data from a run. Yeah, I think that's what they want to do. That's exciting. Eventually, I think they also, like, who's fastest on course at the moment? Yeah. And how quickly are they catching the lead and all of these cool things that, like in a F1 race, you can kind of see all those data points. They did have that. Like when Dittlev was really going really fast, they were showing how fast he was going compared to Christian.

And it was kind of cool to see that. It was like, oh, wow, yeah, they are moving really quick. And is that, I wonder if all that information was being recorded with the GPS trackers. Yeah, it was like to the decimal point. So I think it was using the GPS trackers. Okay. Versus an Ironman race is they're like taking one checkpoint and another and like averaging it and it's always wrong. Yes, so wrong. It's like, oh, he averaged 40 miles an hour for this checkpoint and 13 for the next one. Yeah, I don't think so.

Yeah, so I'm not, I like the tracker and I like the race danger like we talked about. So yeah. All good things. Cool. Okay, next question here is from Olman. Hello, TTL fam. Congrats on those extraordinary performances on the weekend. PTA European Open was fantastic. Paul crushed that bike course. The very competitive races this weekend made me think, how do you guys choose your races? I mean, very competitive races are super exciting

for the fans and age groupers, but the probabilities to win and have cash prizes are lower, which means more effort on your part. And not so competitive racers are not exciting for fans, but is almost certain that you will have a podium and cash prize. So what do you prefer? Competitive races with fewer possibilities of cash prizes

or races with almost guaranteed prizes. Proravita from Costa Rica, Alman. So we obviously, we talked about this, but... Yeah, I don't know. Like, we talk about financials and like, you know, hopefully a trip of a race,

you know, like you don't go into the red as a result of it and, you know, being a slightly intelligent with our decision making there. But, like, for me anyway, more and more, I'm motivated to pick races based on like courses or venues that really interest me. And then I like kind of make sure that it's not going to be a huge financial loss, you know, if I get fourth place. But I'd say like that's kind of like my counter answer is almost just like at this point

in our lives, like we have fantastic sponsors and we don't have to stress about not being able to pay the bills if we don't make money. at a race and it's almost more like what's a cool race to go to for me because I'm not part of the PTO tour that is really exciting that I think I could have it a good experience at and ideally that also has a higher likelihood than not of breaking even. Yeah. Would the exception to that maybe be like world championship races where you're like, maybe that's not the most fun but I probably should do that or even then are you like,

eh, it's not fun? I'm not doing it. Well, there are definitely some races out there that are. I'm like absolutely not. No way. Would not do it. It doesn't matter how much money is there. Maybe it's like a hot race or something.

Like I kind of feel like that would be way about Kona and hopefully that doesn't bum anybody out too much. I'm like, man, I just, the pathway to me having a good race there and you can define that by the prize or just by personal feeling of performance is so low. Not going to risk it. Not worth it. But I think a lot of the, it's not just the prize money or the. prestige or whatever winning or not winning at these races. I think a lot of it is also the exposure and the content and all the things that we get at the races that we go to. So going to the PTO European race, for example, yes, you're not guaranteed to win.

You're far from guaranteed to win. You're far from guaranteed to make your money back. But I think all the things that we got out of it by going there, like seeing the industry people getting the PTO media stuff, having Eric filming, getting photos, doing the whole experience and sharing that is valuable to our sponsors as well, which is why we have great sponsors and don't have to worry about prize money as much. So it's kind of a full circle effect here and there's more to it than just racing and winning. It's even an ocean side, there were so many upsides to that race, even though we both didn't race necessarily well. It was a really positive thing to be at overall. So that comes into consideration as well when we're deciding between one or one of the other

a lot of the time. Yeah, I like that. That's kind of the answer I was hoping you would say. It's like, you know, you do it because it's fun and because it's good for you as a total athlete, not just like this one has more money, go to this one or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the prize money is one factor. Next question here's from John. Congrats and all the great racing Paul Eric and Nick. Love you all. Quick question regarding tire pressure. I'm racing at Fort DeSota and Florida. This is a funny question. 20 PSI. Same course you guys

raised for couples try. I'll be running the Schwalby Pro TTs and was wondering what pressure I should run if you can remember the bike course is crazy rough. Yes, I remember that too. It is crazy rough. It's so bumpy. It's so bumpy.

Thanks for everything you do, John. But if you're just looking at it or riding in a car, it's not really noticeable. It's almost just like the pavement is undulating. It's so wild. It's so wild. you're riding along and you're like, I must be in the roughest part of the road.

I'm going to move three inches to the left. And you go over there and like, nope, that's not it. I'm going to move over a little bit more, move back, and you're just like fishing around trying to find the smooth spot and you never find it. But if you're running, if you're running like we're running, like 858 NSWs or 454s, like a wide rim with a 28C tire and you don't weigh over like 230 pounds,

like it is close to 60 PSI as you can. Just like the lower you can go, the better to try to smooth some of that out. There's nothing there that you would really be worried about a pinch flat either. So it's really just like try to make your tires be full suspension for you. This is where if you have tubeless. Yes, yes. I think that's what he's. I'm just assuming that you have tubeless.

Okay. If you don't have tubless, then 80s, maybe low 80s. I'll just say also that SRAM, you can go on their website, stram.com. just Google SRAM tire pressure calculator, and you can put in all your weight of your bicycle, the kind of tires they are, the width of your wheel,

the width of the tires, and it'll spit out recommended starting points for tire pressure. The reason I say this is because I think people will be shocked at how much lower they are than what they probably do. Like for me, for 28s, it was like 61 and 65 for front and rear. And I feel like people think 80 is low. It wasn't even the hookless because you can put in the clincher type of tubeless. And it's still that low.

The hook list is even lower. Wait. Well, there you go. Yeah. Cool. Okay, next question here is from Simon. I have a gear-related question. With summer coming up, I'm thinking of upgrading my swimming equipment.

I will be doing three Olympic distances with open water swims and would like to have your opinion on whether I should go for a swim skin or a classic wetsuit. I've been a swimmer professionally. I don't even know that was a thing. So the beginner wetsuits are off the table. Are you Michael Phelps? Yeah, what's a professional swimmer? What does that even mean? I've been sort of professionally.

So the beginner wetsuits are off the table, and wetsuits get very pricey really fast. Best wishes from Germany and good luck for Ibiza, Simon. What is off the table? A cheap wetsuit. Oh, what? Right, right. His thought process is,

I used to be a professional swimmer, so I don't want anything but something that's high quality. So I don't want a beginner wetsuit. Yeah, I think. the question when you're thinking about a swimskin versus a wetsuit is not like a swimskin or a wetsuit. If the swim is wet suit legal, you wear a wetsuit. 100% of the time.

And if the swim is not wetsuit legal, you wear a swimskin because both are the fastest options. And if it's a wetsuit legal swim and you're in a swim skin, you're going to be at a huge disadvantage. Although maybe if you're a professional swimmer, you'll still be fine. You'll still be fine. You need to be more first out of the water. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, a cheap wetsuit is still way faster than the best swim skin. It's not close. Yeah, yeah. And they're actually good, good wetsuits are getting more affordable, I think. And so many companies now are just making are making wetsuits across the board that I think you could find maybe even a good quality used one, like gently used from a professional or something. But the swimskins is an interesting question. A lot of people don't understand the point of them. and the fabric on them is actually fast. So there is a speed advantage, but it's also just creating this like sausage casing for if you have pockets on your tri-kit or a looser tri-kit, it just kind of sucks everything together. And they're really easy to pull off.

They last kind of forever. Like you're not going to use them more than just racing. You don't need to train in it. But they are for sure a fast option. If it's not a wetsuit legal swim. And more often than not for iron man racing, is it's wetsuit legal because the cutoff is so high.

But for things like Kona or a really, really hot race, the swimskins the way to go. When's the last time you guys tried a cheap wetsuit? Blue 70 actually sent me one of their mid-range

wetsuits to try out and just give feedback on. And I honestly was really impressed with it. I think it's like a lot of things out there where their top-end wetsuit from four years ago

is probably, you know, trickled down all that technology into the current midday mid-range wet suit. Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to

flexibility in the shoulders and different things like that where you get a little more advanced in the more expensive suits. But they're all floating neoprene. Yes. They're like a cork. Yeah.

Okay, next question here, this should be a fast one and you'll see why. Hello, team. Thanks for everything you do for the sport and for keeping us entertained. Quick one for the boys so Paula won't start yelling,

boring. Yes or no? ever use a gimbal or just trust 100% on the built-in stabilization in the new GoPro models. Big thank you, Manuel. So do we ever use a gimbal with the GoPro? Specifically with the GoPro. Because obviously we love the gimbal with their actual cameras. Yeah.

I'm very intrigued, too. I have had a GoPro gimbal before. It is now no longer with us. RIP. Yeah, the in-camera stabilization is really, really good. the thing that we have discovered, which is getting kind of deep, is that if you want to put an ND filter

on the front of the GoPro's, that sort of breaks down their ability to stabilize a little bit, in which case, then it might be nice to counteract that with the gimbal. The thing is that the thing we'd like so much about the GoPro is that it's so small and easily mountable, and the gimbal then starts to fight against the whole point

of using the GoPro. So yes, you lose that. I would agree, and I don't even know. So yeah, you lose that buttery shutter speed when you do the built-in stabilization, but then you still get that form factor that's so small and it's kind of nice. I don't think I've ever seen you guys use a GoPro with a gimbal. No, you have never seen us do it. Okay.

No. Good, because I would laugh at you. That's so ridiculous. Many moons ago. I love it. I love Paula. Paul having an opinion on this. I really love it.

I love it. Guys, that is not even the point of the go-crow. I don't have zero knowledge, but I do know that gimbals are a huge pain in the ass. And every time you guys are using them, there's a pause in the activity to fix the fucking gimbal. You're right. This is why you need the new DJI Ronin 4D because it'll fix all of our problems. DJI slide into our DMs, DJI. You know you want it.

Even Paula knows. This is what we need. Not cool. Oh boy. Wow. That went off the rails. Okay. Next question here is from Peter.

Hi friends. I signed up for my first triathlon because of you, Olympic, aiming to stay below 230. Very excited. One very practical question. Contact lenses. The internet told me that you shouldn't wear any for the swimming part for bacteria. But my eyesight's pretty bad. I don't want to get prescription goggles just for the very few open water swim sessions. And it's probably stupid to swim open water half blind and only put in lenses during T1. Any recommendations? Big fan and much love from Zurich, Peter. So this is for just racing or for training as well? So this is the problem. What I was going to say was, if it's just for the race, don't wear contact lenses. It's fine. You're going to be with a million other people, unless you're way out front in front of everyone,

and you just follow the feet in front of you, and you'll be fine. Yeah, but what about the bike and the run? Then you don't have contacts. He said he's going to put them in on T1. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Okay. Well, here goes Paula's LASIC commercial.

Oh, yeah. That's right. Okay, just let me know when I can start my LASIC commercial, but carry on, Nick. Okay, yeah. We have to, what's our deal with them? One minute per podcast episode. We got 60 seconds of LASIC.

All I got free eyes back in 2012. That's our deal. Yeah, in 2012, at the 2012 Olympics, I was like, the poster girl for LASIC. Literally the poster girl. I don't think I knew this. I was on billboards all over the country for LASIC. Cross-eyed. Because I got LASIC.

And it was the best thing I've ever done. I'm not even lying. Except for meeting Eric and me, of course. The best thing I ever did. did for my eyes. Okay, great, great. No, still, Eric, is the best thing you ever did to your eyes. Look at him.

That's true. That's true. So, just to rewind a little bit, before I had LASIC surgery, I would wear daily contact lenses because then you just throw them out every night. And if they get a little bit of bacteria from the swimming pool or open water, it's okay because you're throwing them out every day. And that was necessary as a swimmer who was in chlorine for two hours. And they often actually popped out. as well in a race just because of the roughness of the open water and it was fine to lose them

because they weren't like, you know, the month-long type. But I did have LASIC surgery. It was quick, easy, painless, and I still, 11 years later can see perfectly. So if that is an option financially or some people aren't a candidate for it if you have like cataracts or some, you know, more complicated eye things. But if you have a. very fairly simple, fixable thing. I would so recommend this to anybody. I can't stress that enough. That's why I'm not going to do. And I'm not still paid by LASICs, but I still am a huge, huge fan of it. Are we, I mean, is the issue with the bacteria that water from the open water source will get in there? I mean, if your goggles fit well, that shouldn't be an issue, right?

Yeah, I would say to this person, like putting contacts in in T1 is just sound. So stressful. I would just wear them in the swim and get some good fitting goggles. Yeah. Yeah. Even if I have to go with like a big open water swim goggles, it's like scuba mask style. Yeah, some of the ones with a big gasket.

Really seals well, like whatever you got to do. Yeah. I agree. I'll say anecdotally that the Roka ones, the like the, I think they're called the X one, they are quite big and they look a little silly, but they feel very comfortable and they leave a lot of room for your eye. And you never would get water leaking in. No, I've never had it. I've never had it with those.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just wear them for the swim bike run. Yeah. I don't know. We're not doctors, but. If you take them out and wash your eyes out after, is it really a concern? I don't know.

Obviously, we're not doctors, but. Well, you're soaking the lens every night in a solution to, like, take the bacteria away. So I think even if you got a little bit of dirt in it or whatever in the swim, you'd be fine for that day. And then you wash them in the night. Yeah. Okay. Well, we got two more questions here. We'll try to be brief since we are.

We have been going. First question is from Susan, and I think it's mostly for you, Eric. Actually, you've both done this race, so you could both answer. I've been competing in triathlon for a year now and ambitiously put my name in the escape from Alcatraz list. Got picked for this year's race. Having checked out the race course today, what types of shoes would you recommend for the gravel, asphalt, sand ladder mix? Any tips you have for a 48-year-old woman on her first attempt would be stellar? Susan.

Good question. But this one in fair, because I don't know. I wear last year. I think you just wore your Adidas. Yeah, I think I wore my Adidas super shoes, which to me feel pretty stable. The one thing that you can be concerned about is rolling an ankle because there are some switchbacks on like a golf cart, just not a golf cart, but like a walking asphalt path as you come back down and you just got to be really careful on those turns. So if you've got weak ankles, maybe don't go with a super shoe or like. maybe lean more towards the

the ones that have a little bit more anti-roll. A.E. not the Nike's. Just not the Nikes. Yeah. But the still predominant surface on that course is pretty hard. Yeah. So I wouldn't. There's a lot of pavement.

I wouldn't change your shoe choice just because of the, you know, like the mile out and back on the sand or going up the sand ladder. That's going to suck no matter what. I was going to say any shoe you wear in sand is going to feel terrible. Whether it's a carbon shoe or a training shoe, it's not going to feel good. So don't change your decision based on that. Also, I feel like the faster you run,

the more they have an effect on your race, and I think if you're planning on not running at breakneck speeds, I feel like these differences in shoes probably make less and less of a difference and just something that you're the most comfortable in in general is the most important thing. You know, the shoe that I might actually be the perfect shoe for this

is the same shoe that I wore for the cross-traathlon. And that's the cloud boom echo two from... I don't think it's the two. It's just the cloud boom echo. Okay. At least it's not... It's the less high-stack cloud boom echo that On makes. And maybe there's a comparable model, you know, in other shoes and stuff.

But to me, this shoe feels kind of like a half super shoe where it's not a crazy high stack, but it definitely still has that like roll off the front rocker feeling. It's got a carbon plate. But it's got a little more tread than they're like... tippy top super shoe. Which you can't even buy yet. You can't get the Echo 3. Just in case when this, at the point of this time, when this podcast comes out in two days.

So yeah, I don't know. I think that's just like a really killer shoe for some uneven, you know, unpredictable surfaces. But it's still like I definitely noticed like a three to four second, you know, speed increase per kilometer. Yeah, it's got the carbon effect. Yeah. Right. Cool. And then our last question here.

Hi, Paul, Eric, Nick and Flynn. I love listening to your show on my long commute to work. I'm qualified for 70.3 worlds in Latit this year. As a reward, I'm considering buying a disc wheel. Do you find this makes any real improvement to your overall speed? The 70.3 worlds isn't flat this year, but not totally hilly. Iron Man website says 400 meters, in reality, it's more like 700 meters. Would it be worth it on a 700 meter elevation course?

Thanks all. And what authority are we making that claim? Yeah, I want to know. Is it 400 or is it 700? Do you live there? That's crazy. That's not like it's 400, but it's more like 420. Yeah.

That's like double. Yeah. If anyone knows, let us know. I'm actually curious. A disc wheel is always way faster. I mean, I think the difference between like, we'll say a 40 millimeter deep wheel and a disc wheel on the back is like 30 seconds over an hour of like a very fast. 40-kilometer bike ride. So you can decide if that's worth it to you,

but it's always faster. The one course that I don't use it on is Alcatraz, which is literally like six, four-minute maximum effort hill repeats with like a hundred really sharp turns, and I go with the 858 for that just for like a little bit lighter weight to climb

and a little bit better acceleration out of corners. But the disc would be faster aerodynamically. This reminds me of something that the tech said at the wind tunnel this last time that we went where he was like, discs aren't that much faster until you have a crosswind and then they are quite a bit faster. They're always faster. But the crosswind, like if it's going to be windy at all, then it's like that sail effect and you really fly. Yeah. And the other thing about the other, that's good point, Nick.

And the wind tunnel guy actually told us that. So it's got to be right. disc wheels are they have this bad reputation of being unstable and for example in St. Anthony's that we just raced it was a very windy day with lots of gusts and they banned disc wheels for the age group athletes but I think that's a bit of a misconception because that I think the disc wheel actually stabilizes you in the wind

and it's your front wheel depth that has more of a impact on how stable you're going to feel so yeah if it's really windy maybe picking a 4-5-4 versus an 8-5-8 but always the disc will be faster. And like Eric said, a 400 meter, a 700 meter elevation gain in a race, either way, the disc is a faster choice. And if you're going to invest in this as like a reward for qualifying, you'll use it at every other race you do in your life.

So it's a, I think, a good investment, even though they're expensive. I'll say this. Speaking of that, as a budget-minded age group or myself, which you can do, and we've talked about this before, is there's a lot of companies that make. disc covers, right? So instead of purchasing a full carbon wheel, which is the best case scenario, you can buy the less beautiful

and slightly less effective option, which is a cover that goes and it does cover your spokes, but it has a lot of the same effect if you're purely going after speed. But there's nothing like having a real disc, the sound of it, the feel of it, and like the look of it.

I've never been able to ride one myself, but it seems so, so, so cool. Eric, you said it affects the acceleration. Does it affect the handling of the bike if it was a technical course? Yeah, they're just not quite as snappy as a spoke to wheel. Do you feel like, like, I'm trying to... In my experience. I'm trying to draw the comparison here.

Like, I've been riding my TT bike a lot because my road bike's been out of commission. And descending, I can feel the difference between my TT bike and my road bike. Like, my TT bike feels uncomfortably stiff when I'm not. I'm going around corners. It feels like it's like, it almost like wants to skip around these corners, or my road bike feels like it kind of like flexes to it. I could imagine a disc wheel having the same property where like it doesn't really like change its shape at all.

So it doesn't flex into the turn at all. Do you feel that or is that not something that happens or that you notice? Let my breakneck speeds. Yeah. Just that's the thing there's just. I can't really tell. Like, when have you ever been in a triathlon in a situation where you would be able to notice that? Yeah, right, right.

Like, there are like two courses in the world. At Nice. Nees. Se is it. Seventy. That's exactly what I was thinking of. Yeah, I remember checking my bike in the day before, and I was the only person with the disc. And I was like, oh, my God, did I make a huge mistake?

Because I don't know if it's because of the weight or because of the way that the very tactical downhill. Yeah. Yeah. But... You probably had more to do with the weight. Maybe it was the weight. Because a lot of pros in that... Because that was legitimately, like, a 40-minute climb.

Yeah. And then you just descend back down. Yeah. But still, I mean, I still think, like, if you crunched all the numbers, the disc probably would have been the faster choice, even with, like, just like... You know, there's still a total average speed for the whole race, but it's really hard to, like, break away from the way that it feels when you pick it up off the ground. Yeah, psychological. You know you have to go up this big climb.

I don't know. Was that exhaustive enough? Yes, that is. We got it. I think Michael could not ask for a better answer to that question. Okay, so that's it. That's all the questions. We spent most of that talking about the races, which I loved.

Because I haven't really gotten to talk to you guys that much since the race because it's been crazy traveling and stuff. But it's been a crazy couple months. I'm glad we're all back at home now for a little bit, back into our grind, our routine. For five days. For six days. Yeah. We actually decided, well, Eric's racing next weekend in Bellingham, Oak Mountain, Exterra.

Alabama. Alabama. But it is Bellingham, right? He's flying to Bellingham. Birmingham. Birmingham. That's the one. Close.

Very close. And I'm racing Chattanooga 70.3. Oh, you are doing it. Confirmed. Oh, boy. Here we go. Here we go. Are we all racing on the same day in three different places?

You're going to race for sure, Nick? I'm 95% sure. I talked to my coach today, Kyle, and he was like, yeah, I might just use it as a learning experience instead of as a go-all-in experience. Are you signed up? No, but it's still open. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Cool. Yeah, we're all racing on the same day. That would be funny. That'll be funny. That's fun. Yeah, sorry what we missed last week. That was hectic, but we're really happy to be back in a little routine here. So good to chat with you guys.

keep sending your questions and we'll get to more next week and have a good week of training. Bye. Bye.