That Triathlon Life Podcast - Running speedwork in triathlon, Deboer wetsuits, donating blood as an athlete, all around bikes, and more!

Episode Date: January 19, 2023

This week we, as usual, answer your triathlon related questions. This week about treadmill running and how it translates outdoors, swimming gallops, how to address niggles, and much more. Thanks so much to our podcast supporters! To help support the podcast, check out our gear, and submit your questions, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com

Hello everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Nick Goldston. We are here to answer your questions. Eric and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a amateur triathlete professional musician. He was here with us for two weeks, but he's now back in Santa Monica. And we are hanging by a thread recording this podcast at 7.40 p.m. We almost canceled, but we are dedicated to the craft. So we are here, super tired. Not sure how this is going to go. Paula said she took every last ounce of energy to get up the stairs to get up to record the podcast. So now we're really running on fumes. Yeah, I was sitting in front of the fire reading Lauren Flesham's new book and not feeling like tapping into the mental energy that the podcast requires. Although we do enjoy it, it's a lot of, it's a lot of work. It's not sitting by the fire reading. It's a lot of stairs. It's a lot of stairs. I'll just be laying down on the couch three minutes.

ago. Well, I had a rough start to the day, too. As everyone knows, I'm trying to eat healthier this year. So last night, I had a salad and my body fully rejected it, and I was sick for the first four hours of the day today because my body's so not used to having vegetables. Oh, my God. I thought you had raw cookie dough. Was it a raw cookie dough salad? Okay. First of all, how dare you put me on blast in front of the kids? No, so I checked the cookie dough, and it was safe to eat raw. What? So I don't know what it was. it was. The only thing I can think is that maybe there was something wrong with a salad. I don't know. Who knows?

But I was very, very, very ill. Salad and raw cookie dough, the raw cookie dough is the culprit. It could be salmonella on some spinach. Yeah, the raw cookie dough is so overly processed with preservatives that I can't believe that's what made me sick. But I guess it's possible. Okay, but Nick, let's just say

let's just cut that out of the diet, just in case. The raw cookie dough? Yes, yes. Isn't that one of the main food groups, cookie dough? I'm like Will Ferrell. an elf. I used to have pasta with maple syrup and cookie dough. Well, Nick, we're really glad that you're revived because you're doing a lot of things for us this week, including finishing some edits on some very important videos. So we're really,

really, really, really glad that you are healthy now. I'm more than okay. I actually biked today for the first time in like a month and also did a short little run. So I'm feeling good. Nice, nice, nice. Very happy. Cool. Well, the first thing I wanted to do, since we're going to get right into things this week is a little segment. a little rapid fire Okay, so real quick, and I think we should all do this, but I'll ask them. Espresso or pour over coffee?

Espresso. Wine or beer? Wine. Yeah, probably more often wine. I'm going to say beer. Glenn, we cannot play with the crinkle toy. The crinkle toy, that's not a good for radio toy. It's a least good toy.

He's back. He's back. He's like, did someone say toy? Lindsey Corbyn got him this toy from Japan and it's like the greatest toy ever because you squish it and the arms go like, whew, whew! So it's visually attractive also sounds nice.

Anyway, he's locked out. Oh boy. Okay, well, next one here, movie or TV show? Movie. Yeah, movie. The downside is carving out time for a whole movie. Same. So I'm going to say TV show.

And actually, let me throw in a little rapid fire there. What's your favorite TV show of all time? Drive to Survive. I say Breaking Bad. And for me, it's 30 Rock. Okay, favorite meal, breakfast, lunch, or dinner? Dinner. Breakfast.

I'm going to say lunch, actually. Really? Wow. Yeah, it's just like I get to stop work and just like look out the window and eat lunch. I love that. Yeah. What a diverse group we are. Yes, we are.

Favorite snack food? Crackers and hummus. Donuts and cappuccinos. Chocolate. Chocolate for me. That counts as a snack? Yeah, is that a snack? It's like a caloric bomb.

I love it. Okay, for Flynn, run with mom or play chuck it. Chuck it is life. He prefers chuck it. He prefers chuck it. Yeah, when we pull out the leash, he's like, okay, I'll tolerate this, but it's not my choice. And this one just says gravel race? Question mark?

No. Yes. I would do it. Please? Yeah, I would do it. Yes, please. I think that if I did a gravel race, my gravel skills kind of improve a lot when I'm, like, doing something purposeful and meaningful, like a race or a QOM. So I would do one, I think.

All right. We'll quote you on that. And last one, current guilty pleasure song. Song. guilty plan. This guilty play. It means like, I don't know, there's a sense of like songs that music that is like, that you're allowed to tell people you like and music that's supposed to be like a secret.

Like if you're listening to like Britney Spears or something like, okay, oh, you're not supposed to like. That's like top 40 pop music. That's not cool. I feel like that's a very non-musician way to think about it. Musicians don't, like we like what we like and a lot of what I like is top 40. I don't feel like I have anything like that. I would say the song that you wrote, Nick, for the video releasing on Friday. Oh, yeah.

That's my guilty pleasure. That's a banger. I've listened to it so many times. So for people, if you're listening to this on Thursday, it comes out the next day as part of the YouTube video on the That Triathlon Life YouTube channel. And the song itself is going to be on Spotify under the artist's name, The T-T-L kid. So look out for that. that Nick wrote for Eric's bike release video. Yes.

And it's epic. It's fun. The video is epic. So Nick wrote the song and then you also made a long version of it so that people can listen to it on loop like I do on the trainer. Eric, you don't have a guilty pleasure song right now? Yep. It's called Survive by VHS Collection. Nice.

And mine right now is the song by Anika Bennett and it's called The Universe. It's not a banger at all, but it's a great song. Okay. Well, thank you for those questions. Jess, we're going to go right into questions now. Actually, right before that, there's a little update on something we said last week. Remember we had the whole thing about the Kiwi. That's what you call a New Zealand or a Kiwi. Well, someone, a Kiwi wrote in and said, they were cracking up, laughing at your latest podcast, to Adam and the Kiwi. Just wanted to let you know that we are not named after the small hairy green fruit, but actually after the small hairy flightless native bird called a Kiwi. In New Zealand, we call the fruit Kiwi fruit. So there you go. First question is from Matt. TTL team just started listening to the podcast and it's seriously motivating for the upcoming try season. I'm looking to do my first 70.3 this year and I'm on the lookout for a new bike. My local bike store recommended a gravel bike with clip-on arrow bars and race tires as a good setup.

After doing some research, this seems like a popular trend and even my local bike shop recommended it. What's your take on buying a gravel bike plus an additional racing wheel set for an amateur aspiring Ironman finisher? Is it feasible setup or would I be better sticking to road bike. Thanks, Matt. Oh, man. I mean, if you want one bike that can do literally everything underneath the sun, that's the bike. But you got to just understand there's going to be compromises in every single thing that you do, except for a gravel race. Right. Like you're going to, you could be way, way, way faster with a triathlon bike and a triathlon. You could be faster in a road scenario with a road bike. You could be better mountain biking with a mountain bike. But the gravel bike,

is like I said, if you want just only one bike. You can technically do it all. You can technically do all of it. You'll just, a lot of sacrifices. Gravel frames are getting to the point where they're so light and nice that they're almost just like road bikes now. So if you put a better wheel set on that's more road focused, there's not much different between a gravel frame and a road frame.

Is that true? Besides like tire clearance? The geometry is different. It's a little slacker geometry, so they turn a little slower. They're designed to just go very straight on a gravel road. a lot of conditions and stuff. So you would have, you would have like a more lively feeling bike

if you went for a pure road bike, if you want to do like a Criterium or a Road Race. Okay. But people, people do, people do road races on gravel bikes at frames. It's possible. When COVID was happening and I had friends, people who knew that I rode bikes asking me,

I just told everyone to try to find a gravel bike because of what you said, Eric, because you can kind of do anything with it, especially people who are trying to get into cycling, they don't know exactly what they want to do. It is kind of a tool. that can do everything. Yeah, you can get that

and see what you like, oh man, it really annoys me that I can't go as fast on the road or whatever or in a trathon, and then your second bike's a trathon bike. Yeah, sweet. Next question is a very appropriately timed question. Hi, all, long-time listener,

first time with the podcast question. I need a new wetsuit. Come from a competitive swim background. Can you please provide some feedback from your first swims in the DeBoer Fjord? Thanks for creating this platform. It keeps getting better and better all the best, Leslie.

So I feel like this is a good time to say, why is this person bringing up the DeBoer Fjord? Well, because Paul and I both signed with DeBore wetsuits for 2020 and beyond as our new wetsuit sponsor. Yeah, nice. And there's a, if you watch the latest that triathlon life YouTube video, you see Eric testing death and swimming in the frozen Deschutes River while it was literally snowing out with snow on the banks of the river. So that was wild.

But yeah. That was a good time. That wasn't our first test in it, though. Like we swam in them before that to realize that we like them. The other cool thing is DeBore also makes swimsuits just this year. And I'm so extremely picky with swimsuits that I actually was like wanted that out of the contract that I had to wear the swimsuits because I am so particular. And my personal favorite was the Joe Lynn suits. But we got the swimsuits, put them on, and they are so comfortable.

such nice fabric, fit amazingly. It's like the first time I've ever put on a suit and just loved it immediately. So, yeah, even though I guess I'm not contractually obliged to wear the swimsuits, I'm for sure going to. They're so nice. And I guess it is an interesting thing to talk about the DeBoer wetsuits because we've tried a lot of brands in our lives, including a couple this year while we were deciding which company to sign with. And the DeBore ones really stand out and they're not the same as every other one. No, it's a different thing.

You feel like it's a very intentional where they've put certain panels and your chest area and your core feels very compressed relative to other wet suits that we've worn. And you kind of have this sensation of like, oh, this is too tight. But then you get in and swim and you have crazy like shoulder flexibility. So it almost feels like it could be contributing to a little bit of core rigidity in the water and maybe a little less fatigue there. But then your arms are totally free compared. to like what you would imagine while just standing there.

Yeah. We're wearing it on the shore. They're almost a different kind of neoprene, like almost like a plasticy sleeve versus like a neoprene sleeve. And when you're putting it on like for the first time, I thought, I don't think this is going to be comfortable. It feels like a little bit too tight and a little bit hard to pull up. And it's not like the material I'm used to when I'm putting a wetsuit on.

But like Eric said, as soon as you get in the water and start swimming, you'd forget you're wearing a wetsuit. It's this crazy feeling. And coming from a background of. swimming, both of us, that's been the hardest thing with wetsuits is just this feeling of compromise and you're like restricting your stroke a little bit to have a wetsuit on. But with the DeBoer, we both feel like we can just swim naturally, how we train every day in the pool, with this suit on and it's obviously faster because it's a wetsuit. So something we were

concerned about signing with DeBore is the price point of these wetsuits is quite a lot higher than any other wetsuit brand. And we're a bit self-conscious about that because we, by nature, are trying to like be relatable, you know, represent companies that we truly, truly believe in, but then want all of you guys to go and buy their products. And we totally recognize that, you know, that price point of a wetsuit is potentially too high for a lot of people. Yeah. But the flip side of that is we're also trying to be world champions. And I think that there's a, there's an aspect of like, I need to wear the fastest best wet suit available on the market. And that's a debaer. And it, you can't argue.

argue that like Gustav, Christian, Jan, wear this wetsuit and they've all stood behind it and believed it's the fastest one. And we feel the same way by testing it. So yes, maybe it's not the best wetsuit for everyone because it's kind of expensive. But if you're looking for the best wetsuit, which we are, that's the one to pick. And it was a no-brainer from that perspective. It's a really, really high quality item. I don't think they're trying to compromise to make a more budget version. It seems like everything they make is like, nope, this is purpose-built to be super, super fast. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like NASA making the space shuttle. They're trying to make a thing that is going to be the first to space that is going to keep astronauts safe. They're not trying to make one that everybody can afford.

It's like, no, we just need this to, we are interested in, like, pushing things forward. And I don't know if, like, relatability is necessarily even the right word, but, like, we, our vision for the sport

is definitely one of, like, inclusiveness, and it's lower the barriers to entry to get into stuff. And we, so, like Paul said, we recognize that this is the pinnacle of technology and it's not for everybody, but it is for what we want to do in the sport. Yeah. Another thing about a wetsuit is it's not a purchase you need to make every season. It's

something that you could have for years and years, and especially if you take good care of it. So perhaps it is worth the investment. And when you compare it to the price of a TT bike and like all the money you're spending on entry fees, maybe it is worth the extra amount that you're going to spend on it for such a quality fast thing. And you have the confidence. that it's the best because we're wearing it, Jan's wearing it, Gostop's wearing it. It's like, you know, a no-brainer. So anyway, we don't want to talk too much more about it, but that's how we feel.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can relate to the fact that you are trying to be the best performing athletes you can. That's why all of us are doing this anyway. Well, not all of us, but a lot of people are trying to be the best performing athletes we can, and for you guys, that meant to bore. Yeah. Yeah. I will say, they're having a killer sale right now.

Oh, yeah? Well, they're trying to clear out some of their older wetsuits. So, I mean, yeah, they're discounted. Yeah. They're still expensive. If you've ever wanted to get one, now might be the time if you have your size. Cool. Okay, next questions from Nate.

Saw, dude. Hope y'all had a great offseason blazing down the snow hills with the ultimate stees. Wow, what an intro. I'm new to triathlon and have four sprints and one Olympic on the schedule for this year. My question is about injury prevention. As I'm gradually increasing my distance and duration of training, I worry about injuries and wanted to know how you deal with. with those niggles that come up during training.

I will occasionally get a slight pain in my posterior tibial tendon or my anterior shin, but these generally go away pretty quickly and aren't constant. So first questions for the two of you, Paul and Eric, as professionals who do this for a living,

when you get a niggle that starts to worry, do you decrease your intensity and or duration, or do you simply increase the amount of stretching and mobility workouts you do? So that's a good question. And is your first step to try to do something extra to help the niggle? Or is your first step to decrease activity? Decrease activity, for sure.

Especially in triathlon, because there's three sports. So if you have a running niggle, you can fill it with a bike or a run or a bike in a swim if you are that type that needs to do something. For me, it kind of depends on what the thing is. If it feels like it could be a tightness-related thing, then I'll take a crack out of it with like the foam roller doing some pin and stretch type of stuff and then go test it out on the run or the bike or whatever is hurting you. And if that hasn't really alleviate anything, then like Paula said, the instant thing is just

that workout is not the one that's going to be the deal breaker at the end of the season and just cool it and try to recover and see how it feels tomorrow. Yeah, he also asked me, what do I do as an age trooper? But I was just going to pretty much mirror what both of you said. first thing I try to do is decrease load and immediately start trying to do some kind of at home PT to address the issue.

It's tempting to say, I'm just going to keep my training load where it is and then do like if it's an Achilles thing then do Achilles strengthening stuff as well. But that's a, I feel like that's wishful thinking sometimes. Yeah, there's no way you can maintain the same volume when you have a niggle

and just like add PT and it'll go over. Right. that's still more training. That's not going to happen. But I also think that people kind of panic PT sometimes. I think the better solution long term for anyone who's listening to this who doesn't have a niggle is to keep up with the PT and the boring exercises and the foot things before something even shows up. Because to just like hit it hard in the head when you feel something is not that productive. It's like the point of PT is to kind of, you know, maintain healthiness and strength and these little joints and the exercises are not exciting.

but yeah like going hard on it right when you feel something it can be careful with that too yeah exactly yeah yeah and especially like if it is like a thing that's like in your knee for example the gut reaction is to like maybe like try to massage it right where it hurts a lot of the times like if it's a knee thing just like maybe work on your quads a little bit work on the sides of your legs like a lot of the times like pts have told me that like i'm not going to massage this tender spot right now because it's already so

inflamed that's what eric tells me when i have him to massage things for me. That's smart. Try to massage all around it. He's wise. He's wise. Like, what about here? Does he need a massage?

Are you sure it's not over here? Okay, next question. Wow, that was getting heated. Okay, next one is from Alana. She says, hello, I'm watching various triathlete YouTube videos. I recently thought about the fact that I've noticed none of you are ever showing off tattoos. Paul, you okay? Well, Eric just made an inappropriate podcast joke.

We should rate this one mature from. mature audiences. Okay, okay. Kate, close your eyes. Close your ears. That's right. I'll text Nate right now. So any of you, she's never seen any of us showing off tattoos.

Do any of you have tattoos? If so, what are they? If not, would you consider getting one and what would it be, Alana? Well, we all want to get an M.Dot tattoo, right? I actually have a full sleeve. We just Photoshop it out of every video. It's a lot of work every time on the vlog. No, none of us have tattoos.

I'm getting a, I'm getting a Morton tattoo and an M. Tattoo. Very nice. And a Hoka tattoo. We can probably combine those into one. It's a Morton move tattoo. It's the M from the M dot and then the rest is Orton. Yeah.

Exactly. I can see it now. Yeah. I think the one, the one, none of us have tattoos. None of us. We're a cleanslights. I would get a tattoo. I would get the Olympic rings.

And I did go to the Olympics in 2012. And it was such a horrible experience for me personally that I didn't feel like I deserved it. But looking back, I mean, I'm still an Olympian. I could still get them, but I think it's a cool, subtle kind of way to remind yourself

of a really big part of your life. And the further away I remove myself from the experience I had there, the more I'm proud of it and think that it's cool to have been an Olympian. That's kind of the only tattoo

that I'd consider getting, though. I could definitely get into some sort of a half-sleeve thing. And I have a good friend of mine who, like, for 15, 20 years, has had a cool tree scape on his arm. but then it just became, and I always kind of wanted that,

but then it just became like such a thing now that like every third bro that I see has like freaking fur trees on his arm. And I'm like, I don't know. I kind of want to be a special flower, so I'm back on the hunt for the unique thing. Ah, there you go. Very nice. And I don't really have an interest in tattoo,

even though I really like tattoos on other people. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like part of me is a little scared to commit to something that permanent. And it also reminds me of this quote that my alma mater has, which is Esse Kwanvedere, it's like to be rather than to seem.

So I feel like whenever I want a tattoo of something, I'm like, why don't I just like do that thing more instead of, I don't know, maybe that's not a great example, because I would 100% get the Olympic rings if I went to the Olympics. Yeah. I think like Paul's sister has a couple

tattoos and her having tattoos and talking about it kind of changed my thinking on tattoos a little bit and thinking of them more as like art. Yeah, yeah. Rather than just like, oh, I like fishing, so I got a fly rod. Like she came from Canada, yeah, she came from Canada to Portland to get a specific tattoo artist to do a piece on her. And I'm like, okay. Like a very subtle. This is making sense to me, actually. I'm thinking of people who get tattoo like, you know, like mom or something. It's like, I know I love my mom. I don't need a tattoo of it. But you're right. It's, it can be art. And a lot of times it is.

Yeah. If I go to the Olympics in 2024 for cycling, for TTIing, I'll get the Olympics. Hell yeah. Tattoo on my forehead. That's good. Yeah. We'll all get them. Tattoo on my forehead. Okay.

Next question here is from Alec from Columbus, Ohio. Go back guys. Hi, Paula, Eric, Nick, and Flynn. Love the snow. And I'm excited to see how much TTL has grown over the past couple years. You've helped me get excited and stay excited to pursue wonderful world of triathlon. Awesome. Thanks, Alec.

I'm curious if you're any of the pro athletes have experience with donating blood. I recently donated double red cells at work. I don't know what double red cells are, but I did almost pass out, not because of the needle, but because I haven't given blood very often. And it got me thinking about the performance impact that donating blood has on athletes. Furthermore, it had me wondering if this is a taboo or strictly prohibited by coaches for pro triathletes. What do you guys think?

I'm a nurse and I have been given tons and tons of blood for patients working in the ER. I felt like it was my time to give back. But I want to be able to keep giving and get fitter and faster. Thanks. Yeah. I honestly don't think that as a pro athlete, we could do that. You're not allowed to have any needles, right? Isn't that a no-no? Well, not for that reason. I think you could still... They test for like plastasols, I think is like a thing that's tested for. So that would be some residue.

that came out of the inside of like an IV bag. Oh, I see. So I think. I'm not an expert on it. But you're not, I think the needle thing is kind of like more in regards to no medications being administered via needle versus like some things could be a cream, I think. Again, I don't, I haven't researched this just shooting from the hip here. But my dad has given blood his entire life frequently.

And he definitely just as a hobbyist, cyclist feels a pretty significant impact to his training for the week after that. And I just, I don't think that we could do that. Like maybe we could do it as soon as we finish our last race of the year. I mean, we know we have two months. But then in that two months, we're trying to recover the best that we can. So I've thought about this a lot as well. And I think that's just something that I'm going to have to put off until I'm done

racing professionally. I did research it. And this is like, if people are curious about what it takes to recover from something like that, this is something written by Dr. William O. Roberts. He said, when you donate blood, you give up a pint of fluid that represents about 10% of your total blood volume. About one-third of that volume is red blood cells, and the rest is mostly water. The water is replaced within the day as long as you get plenty of fluids, but the red blood cell mass replacement can take about two months. If you're well-trained, you will not notice the drop in hemoglobin levels

at rest, or even with light to moderate exercise, but when you push toward your training or race threshold, the lower red cells mass will become apparent. So that's a long time. If you're like, if we're out there and we're like working really, really hard every effort to squeeze out of performance, that's hard to reconcile that. We're operating in like 0.5%, 1% gains, and we're talking about a 10% decrease in your red blood cell capacity. That's a lot. There's got to be other good deeds you could do. That is a really good deed. And the world is always in need of lot of donations, but there's a lot of other ways you can help people, like Paula said. Yeah, cool. Okay, next question is from Nick without a K, which we'll see. We'll get there

in a second, but T-TLN, as always, thank you for the content and valuable knowledge and entertainment you provide. I just purchased my first pair of super shoes, or as we call them on the podcast, pillow shoes. How often should you train in them? What type of workouts, frequency, etc. P.S., I dropped the K off my name to save time. As endurance athletes, we're always looking for ways to be more efficient and save time, even when it comes to writing out our names. Thanks again, Nick. I love that with the whole description too. Okay, so how often should you train in them? What types of workouts, frequency, etc.? I think just based on the discussions that Paul and I have had, if money was no object and we had an infinite supply of super shoes, we would do our tempo run

in them each week. Okay. And so you've got two hard workouts a week. One's probably like, we'll say mile repeats or 800 meter repeats, and then one's like a 40-months. at tempo run, I would wear them for the tempo run. Only to get, just to get used to them. Like, I think that they do become a crutch sometimes, and then people can't not wear them for fast runs, because they just, they make you so much faster. And then psychologically, you take them off, wear something else, and you're going, five or ten seconds per case slower, that can mess with your head.

I think that the advantage of using them is just so you can kind of get used to them before a race, because they do have quite a different feel than just a regular training shoe. So we will wear them for, like, the brick workouts leading up to a race. but I think even if, hypothetically, I had access to infinity amounts of shoes, I don't think I'd wear carbon shoes for every tempo run. I think a lot of brands also just have like a tempo shoe

or like something that's a little bit lighter, a little bit mimicking their race shoe so that you're not spending $300 on shoes that don't really last that many miles, and then just save like the super cushiony shoes for the easy runs. So have a couple in the stable, but not necessarily reaching for the carbon shoes every time there's a fast interval.

Well, that reminds me. How often do you guys actually, like, how many shoes do you have in your rotation? You have a trail shoe, you have a cushy shoe, and you have a fast shoe? Is it just those three? And a race shoe, yeah.

Yeah. Might be like two. And a fashion shoe and a fashion boot. There might be. There might be. Closed-toed Birkenstocks. Yeah, probably, yeah, probably like four. Like a very cushy shoe,

just like a normal shoe, then you're like, yeah, tempo run kind of fastish. trail shoe, race shoe. So five. But the race shoe, how often are you using that

in training? Like currently? I mean, like Paula said, pretty much never. Like the last couple transition runs off the bike before a race will wear them. And yeah, I don't know.

The reason that I was saying like maybe once a week for a tempo run or once every other week is just because I do think there is something to, they don't beat your legs up as much and you might be able to get a lot of really good leg speed in a workout. without just destroying your legs.

Yeah, that's true. But we also pretty much do all of our hard running on soft surface, so that accomplishes kind of the same thing. Yeah, yeah, cool. Okay, next question. It's from Royce from North Carolina. Hello to the TTL voices in my head, parentheses, phones. I'm curious your thought about speedwork on a 400-meter track.

I ran track in college before Strava and smartwatches were a thing. I love the predictability of tracking fitness gains using the track. It's the closest thing to Er. mode outside. How do you like incorporating left turns into your routine, Rice? Ever. We never went on the track. Not a single time last year did I go on the track. Do you wish, do you think there's a place for it? Or do you think it's not a good use of a triathletes time? Yeah, I think there for sure is. It's really good for speed work. It's good for consistency. It's pancake flat, no variation. Totally controlled. I think it's really good. I think where if you

overdo it. Sometimes like the left-hand corners repetitively can maybe lead to some imbalances, which is why a lot of triathletes will like switch directions sometimes, which is very taboo and track and field. Yeah. Only switch directions if you have the track completely to yourself.

Don't run a lane one with a busy track running the wrong way. Yeah. A lot of triathletes do track workouts like you see on social media, but our coach doesn't really prescribe them. Although our coach does give track workouts to his ITU athletes. I don't think he's a I just think the type of training we do is 70.3 athletes is more suited to tempo runs and fartlicks and running more on like varying terrain or the road than on the track.

Yeah. I also like I feel like when I go to the track, you just, you're in a completely different headspace. And that is conducive to running very fast. And the type of speeds that we need to run, they need to run for IT racing versus a lot of the times it almost feels like the first 45 minutes of a 55 minute tempo run. You're kind of having to run. to tell yourself, calm down, be chill. Like, you don't need to run that fast. And then the last five, 10 minutes gets really hard. Yeah. Versus like, you step foot on a track and it's like, this is game time. We're sending it. But it's not a bad tool.

And if you come from a track background, I think it's a fine thing to keep doing and incorporate. I used to run track all the time. I race track. And I do kind of miss the structure of a track workout. It's kind of similar to a swimming workout where you're doing intervals with set rest. and it's different than the kind of sessions we do on the run, but no way is better than another. It's just the way we do things.

I wonder if either of you have an answer to this. What do you think the shortest distance that you could really like do hard intervals at? What is that? What makes sense for a 70.3 and beyond, 70.3 and full distance triathlete. What's too short? You know, is 100?

Is 100 too short? Is 200 too short? Is even 400 too short? It just depends on the structure of the workout. Like you could do 200 on 100 jog, 200 on 100 jog, and that's like a fortlet. Yeah, but 200 just seems like whatever, a 30 second effort. That's like, it's so, that's so fast. No, that's longer than 30.

I would say it's going to who you are, yeah. I would say at 200 with 30 seconds rest would be nonproductive for a 70.3. I disagree. What do you need? Why? Like, you don't need to be like building up this running a minute and a half per mile. You're building like foot speed. Faster than.

The same reason in the. the pool that we'd do like 50 hard with 20 seconds rest, that kind of thing. And you do that on the bike too. I guess you never really do that on the run either of you. I guess, yeah, early season. Now we're arguing on the podcast. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I love this. I don't think we disagree enough on the podcast. So I like this. I guess like my gut reaction is just like the number of triathletes or people that I've heard who are like trying to run a, you know, a 1.30 half marathon on that injured themselves running like 35 second 200s on the track because it's entertaining. It's like just have a coach design it, be intentional about it, like have a focus for the thing.

Don't just be like, I want to go to the track and do 200s because they're short and fun. You know what? Now that I think about it, I have had like, you know, my pre-made plans. They do have 30 seconds efforts like many of them in a run at the beginning of the season, but none of them are at that fast. they're still within a reasonable pace. They're not like, hey, go run your 200, you know. Yeah, like how much faster per mile would they be than your 70.

Maybe like two minutes per mile, but like my 200 pace is like 410 per mile or something. So that's those are- This is where the triathlete side comes up. And when you're talking about your 400 time, your 200 time and your minutes per mile. And my minute per mile pace, exactly. That's so guilty. That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's so true. Trying to boil it down is to be as immediately understandable as possible.

But yeah, that's right. That's like nowhere near that pace. So maybe the 30 second efforts make sense, but maybe not at like 200 track speed. Yeah, I mean, just in just like a specific time of the season. Right now we're finishing most of our runs with four by 32nd hill sprints. So that is a 30 second effort. But it's like designed to do hills to do speed and we're not like trying to transdo whatever. 10K worth of it to prepare for a marathon. That's the difference.

Cool. There you go, Royce. Next question. Question for the podcast. I am weird and I actually love running on the treadmill. Wow, that is weird. I find it much easier to get warmed up in a progressive manner as I'm older and a long-time runner and run warm up is a slow process for me.

However, I find that if I run on the treadmill too much or too consistently, when I hit the road, my legs hate me and the indoor fitness doesn't translate over to the outdoor as easily as say a bike trainer. Do you guys experience this at all? Seems like so many of the top pros are doing all their hard workouts on a treadmill. How does this work for them? From John. Yes, John, you're not crazy. I actually feel the same way. Really? As I have gotten older in terms of training age, I've enjoyed the treadmill more and more. And I like to put a mirror in front of me and I kind of zone out and get into this thing where I'm not, I'm just like thinking about other stuff and thinking about my form.

And I find it very easy to warm up into. Typically, like, the thing that I'll do, because for exactly what you talked about, where it doesn't translate as much, like the lowest incline that I'll run at the treadmill on is one and a half percent. That mimics outdoor running a little bit more somehow? Exactly.

And you can also just kind of get some good benefit. We've talked about the merits of hill running on the podcast before, and then this is one way that you can kind of tap into some of those additional muscles that you would be using if you're running a little bit faster. So, like, my favorite thing to do is I'll start it on 1.5%.

And then over the course of the first 10 minutes, I'll ramp all the way up to, like, 6%, 6.5%. And then over the course of the rest of the run, every five minutes, I'll take off a half a percent and increase, like, 2.2 miles per hour, until I get all the way back down to 1%, and then I just finish it off there. And I think that will really help with you not just letting the treadmill,

like throw your legs behind you. you're actually having to propel yourself, you know, virtually uphill. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I've heard you talk about this a few times before, but that's an interesting kind of like progression there. Yeah. Just to be clear, I absolutely love running outside,

but sometimes if I got a 40, 45-minute run, it's very easy to get on the treadmill, and they don't have to worry about the route. You don't have to worry about the wind or any of these things and just kind of go shut your brain off. How much does time drag on for you of like a 45-minute run on the treadmill versus 45 minutes outside? A lot for me.

A lot for Paula. Not at all for me. Oh, really? Feels pretty much the same. An hour outside and an hour on the treadmill, even though maybe it's not as enjoyable. It doesn't feel longer. No, no, I put on music.

I can just kind of jam out and... Text me, ideas that you have. Text you. Yeah, honestly, it's like where I feel the most creative is when I'm just kind of doing that and my mind can drift. Yeah, cool. Maybe I'm weird, too.

No, that's a great answer. I feel like you were the perfect person to ask. Okay. question, Paula, we only have two left. Can you believe it? Yeah, I'm still listening. I'm still participating. I'm just lying on the floor. Thank God for these articulating microphones. That's great. I feel like we need a photo.

Hello, love the pod and vlog, and find you all very inspiring. I have two questions that I hope you can discuss, especially the second one. First, for Nick, based on the Strava footage with your race with Paula, you seem to have a bit of a gallop, channeling Katie Ladecki perhaps? No, unfortunately, I'm not channeling Katie Ladecki. At least... Is he talking about me or you, Nick? Me, me, me. At least for the...

You have a galloper. Yeah, well, I noticed it when I watched the video. I know why it happened, too. It's not normal for me, but what do all of you think which style of stroke would work best for triathlon? And have you in general seen any evolution and swim stroke over the years that might best suit the unique conditions of triathlon? So for me, the reason that I had a gallop is because I was running out of air. So I needed a lot of time on my right to breathe. But normally I'm pretty symmetrical, I think.

At least the footage I've seen of myself swimming. I for sure have a gallop in my stroke, and I don't like it, but I do. Because I notice it every time I're, and especially when I was trying to swim hard. And I think a little bit of it is because of open water swimming, because you do the sighting when you're open water. So I've kind of created this weird motion where I'll kind of like my body will come up out of the water more when I breathe on one side. And that's like how I cite when I'm out open water. But in the pool, it kind of just translates back and it's not attractive, but it doesn't feel like I'm doing it until I watch a video. It's just crazy that stomach's.

extremely high-performing swimmers also have it. So I don't know. It's fast. If Katie Ledeki has it, I mean, I'm okay with it, I guess. Eric, I've noticed it in you, too, when you're swimming fast. Yeah, I actually intentionally cultivated it as a child. Oh, okay. You're like, I'm not joking at all.

So where did that come from? No, I'm not joking. That did it, that you were inspired by? Yeah. I mean, a lot of distance swimmers have that. And I think it's a little bit of a byproduct of your kick. in a distant stroke. A lot of swimmers have like a hybrid kick.

You're going for a two-beat kick, but just like you'll have like a single kick on one side and then three kicks on the other side. And you just kind of like, you end up leaning into this a little bit of lopsidedness and getting a really good breath on one side and then the other side is just quick

and you whip it around to get high turnover. Yeah, that's cool. And do you guys ever, ever do bilateral breathing? Yes. No. Wow, that was easy. You're always breathing to the right. right, Eric?

I mean, occasionally I'll breathe the left, just feel on them like, I should probably do that, but I'd, I'd bilateral a breeze. When? Except for when I'm, like, going really fast. I always do. Oh, you always do? Wow. I don't know why I didn't notice that.

Yeah, that's cool. I think I do at least. It's so funny how we can be swim for like... And you don't even know. 25 kilometers a week, and I don't even know. Like, I don't know. What's that doing? Just turn my brain up.

I definitely have a dominant side that I prefer if I'm swimming hard, but I think what I'm doing like pull with paddles and stuff. I switch sides. And Paula, do you notice that you are, do you feel like you have better, quote unquote, better technique breathing to one side or the other? Yeah, breathing to the right. You notice like you're just sink more or something? I'm just like stronger on that side.

Yeah. Because it's how I've been breathing for the past 20 years or whatever. Eric, what about you? Oh, yeah, that's why I don't breathe to the left. It's a waste of time. I just go slower. Yeah, right. I feel that.

I try to bilateral breathe as much as possible. and I'm still so bad at breathing on the left. I think it's good to do as a drill occasionally, just like for the sake of balance and stuff, I wouldn't be like, oh, I need to make sure that I develop a bilateral breathing for open water. I think it's good to be able to breathe both sides for open water, though,

because if you happen to be starting on the right of a pontoon or the left of pontoon, you have to be aware of your surroundings. And if you're on the far right and you can only breathe right, you have no idea what's going on to the left of you. I just never line up on the right side. Oh, okay. Are you ever concerned about waves coming from one side

and then you're breathing to that same side. Yeah. Good point, Nick, yeah. Yeah, it's not that I can't do it. I just, I'm not like, oh, I need to practice doing this. Like, I've never had a problem in a race whereas if the waves were coming from that side where I could just like sneak a breath to the left real quick.

Yeah, I just wonder if for people who are listening who are a little bit more fearful of like swimming in open water with waves, like if it would be valuable to them to like just at least get some practice and breathing on their non-dominant side. Now you don't think so. They'll be fine. I think that the better of a swimmer you are and the more comfortable you are on the water, the less you think about your breathing pattern is just kind of more natural.

If you're in the water like, I can't have a gallop and I have to breathe every three strokes, then it loses its fluidity that you're kind of trying to do it at a tissue. I'm getting so tired. You're doing a talk. I think you don't want to be like two brain-locked trying to like really, really overthink this stuff. Yeah, got it. Cool. And then last question.

First off, I want to say how awesome the community you all worked so hard to create around triathlon is, I just got a Wahoo kick or core because of the great reviews and joined the TTL's Whiff group. There hasn't been a group ride yet since I've joined, but the conversations and motivation people post is awesome. Can't wait for a ride. This is more of a fun question for all three of you, which is why I picked it for the last one. Do you ever have a cool celebrity moment or idle moment while you were racing, maybe earlier in your triathlon journey or even as pros? This summer I did my first try and got to chat and start the race with Olympic curler, Joanne Courtney, at the PTO Canadian Open.

And a number of years ago, my father-in-law raced with a future phenom at the University of Alberta, spring thaw race named Paula Finley. So that's thanks from Jonathan from Edmonton. So have you guys had those? I mean, probably not in a while, but early on, Erica, it kind of reminds me of your like Extera stuff. Like meeting a Like being starstruck by someone Yeah And a triathlon

For sure For sure Like the first time that I did an IT Race and Hunter Kemper was there Just like Like racing against Jesus Similar like how I felt racing Andy Potts

And escape from Alcatraz The first time It was just like Please please please be cool Don't let this guy think you're not cool Like you know for sure because I mean we idolize some of these people

prior to joining getting into the sport and then all of a sudden just you get your pro card and boom you're there with them you're standing next to them on the start line it's not like okay you're the first year pros are back there the second year pros are up here it's just like nope I'm standing next to an Olympian holy shit yeah I mean

you can imagine this is like for me what the past like two years have been like every time I go with you guys anywhere I'm just like up I know you and you and you And you, and you, and you. And now we're all talking. It's crazy. Like a snow thing.

Yeah, exactly. Paula, what about you? You started so young. Yeah, I was, like, started as a junior in Canada. So we would always travel to world championships with the senior team, which was like Simon Whitfield and Kyle Jones and people that I looked up to, watched on TV, go to the Olympics. And similar to Eric, then when I started doing ITU races, I was lining up against Emma SnowSill and people that I watched on TV. win the Olympic Games and suddenly I'm racing them and eventually beating them and sometimes, which was extra weird and extra cool. But yeah, it's always the people that you kind of like admire

and watch, you know, Instagram TV, whatever it is. I mean, still like last time that we went to challenge Daytona, we were standing outside the breakfast with Bob thing and and Yon comes up and just like starts to make a small chat. And I was just like, yeah, we're still stressed by Yon forever. Do you see me? You know who we are? Yes, Jan, whatever you say, young. Totally. Well, actually, this reminds me, so the previous question at the end had something I just kind of omitted, but I feel like it's really appropriate to end on.

They were saying, my question is, I suppose it's mainly for Eric and Paula, given how documented your careers and lives are, both by yourselves and by others, are you concerned at all about how these documentations are used? Do you have any say in how, for example, the PTO or Iron Man or media outlets use your imagery and interview and statements? This is funny because I feel like it's not something I've thought about. in triathlon, but in music, it's a huge topic. Like any of my friends who go on a reality show like American Idol or The Voice or whatever, it's always really scary because those shows don't make money by promoting the best singer.

Sometimes that's the way they make money, but a lot of times it's just how do we get the best story? How do we get people the most interested in our show, which happens to be a singing show? And so they will craft all kinds of stuff just to make the viewer feel more attached to the show and watch more advertising. It seems like in triathlon, that's not as much of this case, and people are mostly, like, good in their intentions, but has this ever crossed your mind?

I think sometimes the PTO stuff can be taken out of context because you sit down for these interviews that they do when you go to their PTO races, and then they'll take those clips or those soundbites and use them in videos in the future, maybe in ways you didn't completely intend. And when you're doing a 30 or 45-minute interview with someone, you're not going to say 100% crystal clear, wonderful things all the time.

Like sometimes you slip or you say something that you don't mean to say, and they can use any of that. So it hasn't really been a problem, but I definitely think that the PTO's emergence of creating videos throughout the year has been the closest we've ever came to that of taking stuff a little bit the wrong way of how we meant to portray things. Yeah. Yeah.

You just never know because you could say, oh, I was talking to Nick the other day, and he said, you're a dirty cheater. And they can just pull out, you're a dirty cheater in context to something completely different. And you might go, yeah, that's a really dramatic, exciting TikTok video, but it's not at all what I said. I'm not saying the PTO's been pretty good. I mean, the stuff they've made of me before, Eminton and everything, like everything, I've been super happy with how they've clipped everything together. Yeah, that was an extreme example. But the nice thing about our show is that we feel like we're in a very good position because we are putting out this content about ourselves in the way that we want to and everything. So even if something were to happen, like we've got a very established.

Here's who we are. Here's our character. You can see it. We've got nothing to hide. And I personally really like that. It's like we've got this kind of personal journal. Yeah, that's the way I see it. It's like you get to look back at this in 30 years and be like, oh, yeah.

Look at this. We did that this week. And yeah, it was a lot of work to make a vlog every week. But we do have this, like, time capsule with a time stamp on it. I don't know how it came up, but when we were on his bike ride the other day, just riding and, like, freezing cold. Somebody had the idea for we should someday when we were retired. We'll go back and, like, have a glass of wine and narrate episodes. Do it reacts. TTL reacts to TTL videos.

Yeah. This looks like we were having such a great time on this bike ride, but we actually didn't talk to each other for two hours after. Right, right. That's so funny. I would love that. I would love that. That's entertaining. I love that. Here we go. Flynn again, another fetch. Yeah, exactly. But we needed to get to 10 minutes. Well, those are all our questions. And for those who are wondering, you can send in your questions, and you can also support the podcast with your monthly subscription at Thattriathlonlife.com slash podcast. We're always so grateful for the people who are supporting the podcast, and also so grateful for the people who are. are sending in questions every week. It's how this whole thing works. We're always working on little just like bonuses for people who are supporting the podcast.

We had a couple phone calls today involving this very topic. Got some stuff coming down the pipeline. Are we thinking, Eric, as something that we talked about when we were first doing the podcast supporter idea, that maybe we would do something where people who are podcast supporters might get early access to new gear, maybe like a few hours, even up to like a day in advance for stuff that sells out really quickly and maybe people are at work or something and they don't have the time to do it. Is that something we could organize? Yeah, the scientists are working hard on it.

Our tech team is seeing about how the possibility is of that. Basically, we do really want to do something like that. It's just we don't, we haven't figured out how to have it operate on the website just right. And, you know, the last thing we want to have happen is that we did that. And then like a bunch of people who weren't podcast, the poorers got it. and everybody else couldn't get it. Yeah, right. Like we said, in the interest of being inclusive,

but also rewarding some people who are big time supporters we're working on. Yeah, great. Be sure to watch the super sick video that Nick and I have been spending all day and all night on for the last week coming out on Friday. Yeah, yeah. That was a lot of fun. I wonder what the reaction will be. Well, if it's like my reaction, I just watched it 150 times in one day.

That's right. It's so catchy. It's so good. you guys. So, yeah, thanks for listening, everyone. We might actually record another pot in a couple days because Eric and I are going to be out of service for like five days in a row. We're going to be off the grid. We can talk more about that next time. But, yeah, send in your questions. And thank you so much for supporting. And for, I don't know, this isn't going to be our best pot ever. I feel super like. All his eyes are half closed. Hopefully we had some good nuggets.

You're still vertical. Which I'm impressed by. I got back on the chair. Wow. Impressive. But that's all. Thank you all. Yeah. Thanks for listening, everybody. See ya.