That Triathlon Life Podcast - T100 Lake Las Vegas Triathlon, virtual bike fits, and more!

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

This week, we recorded the podcast together, outside, in Mammoth, CA! We huddled together and got a race recap for the challenging T100 Lake Las Vegas race that took place a couple days prior. Paula gave us the nitty gritty, and then we moved on to some listener-submitted questions. This week we discussed: Racing outside of pro triathlon as a pro triathletesleeping in noisy hotel roomsTop places to live and train in the USAGetting a bike fit through an automated appCheck out the TTL Gravel HoodieA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hello everyone. Welcome to That Triathlon Life podcast. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Agileg. I'm Meg Goldstone. And we are coming to you from Mammoth Lakes, California. We're actually doing, for the first time ever, an outdoor podcast recording. So we're all huddled around the mics together. And we are right beside Lake Mary. So probably the most picturesque podcast we've ever done. We are recording on a camera too, just in case it looks cool. But most of all, we're just taking advantage of us all being together for one more. our day and recapping Lake Las Vegas

T-100 which Nick and I just completed. Completed is the right word. Yeah, we completed it. Which is harder than it sounds. You know, we never actually looked into if my course was more climbing or not than yours.

It's called it a boat equal. It's about the same. Yeah, yeah. A lot. And even if yours was more climbing, like yours was less laps so it was mentally easier. Yes, oh for sure.

So it all equals out. Four laps was okay. Six lapses a lot. Although every time, like, you do that first, that first, long out and back, I don't know if you guys had that too. Yeah, you did have that. We did, yeah. And you're like, oh, really? Four times.

Yeah, I had to, yeah, I know. I was there. I mean, it might have been rough for you guys, but it did make a very fun spectator experience. Coming from that side of the fence, um, seeing everybody come by each time. There were a lot of people out on course. It was actually a pretty good atmosphere in terms of watching your significant other, watching the pro race for everybody who showed up the day early. it is cool for that. Okay, so for any first timers here, who are you guys?

Well, Eric and I are both professional triathletes. I don't know what Eric is anymore, actually. Are you a professional triathlete? I'm a professional athlete, and I do multiple sports. He's a professional multi-sport athlete. He's not a professional T-100 athlete, but that's fine. That is fine. And Nick is a professional musician and an amateur triathlete.

Did you finish six in your age group? I finished six in my age group. Okay, and I finished six in my age group as well. See? So we're about the same. I don't know why we're calling me a pro and you not a pro. I know. What's up for that?

Both game six. And we're both like meh about it. I mean, yeah. My expectations were just to do it, have fun, be part of the TTL community stuff that we had organized. And that was all a great success. Yes. And I was happy with my bike and not happy with the rest, but that's okay. Well, I think this is, I don't remember how much we talked about it going into it,

but like you and I certainly talked about it a lot going into it. You're up until midnight the night before the race almost. You were there to like do the entire event experience, which I think is, you know, I was actually thinking about that just while I was standing, like watching, waiting for you to come around and stuff. That is cool. I don't see any problem with that with going like,

you know what, I want to be here and be around the vibe and see people, connect with my friends, like make sure that I go to a cool restaurant and stuff, complete the event, but maybe this isn't the one where I'm trying to get, you know, the PR on my bike. and the PR on the run and the thing. But if the event is like truly cool atmosphere, then like that, that's awesome.

I kind of think of it a little bit like putting ceramic speed pulley wheels on your bike. Like, yeah, that's faster. That is better. You will go faster if you do that. But is it worth it for you. For some people, it is worth it. For me to do this experience and enjoy it in the most holistic way is not to go to sleep at 8 p.m. every night. Be super careful about exactly what I'm eating.

Be so dialed and do all of the one. my runs. It's to do it the way I did it. And did I lose some performance on the race? Maybe. Or maybe not because I was just winning more stoked and less nervous and anxious about it. Either way, I'm happy with the way I kind of handled the week. And yes, I was up late the night before. Yeah. I think we kind of went around to circle at camp last night and said what were our favorite parts of the event. And for me, anyway, it was being able to hang out with Chelsea and Josh and Jackie, like after the race, have dinner the night before the race and just like catch up with all of our friends who we get to see somewhat often. But seeing in person is completely different than FaceTiming or texting or anything.

And that was really enjoyable. I will say even Paula, you like, you weren't so strict with yourself about being exactly where you. You also seem like you had a good time before and after the race. Nick, you arrived at 2 p.m. the day before my race. Yeah, you missed a good chunk of the pre-race mess. Sure, that's true. No, I was really not feeling well all week. Yeah.

And every workout I did, I felt like I wanted to go back to sleep. My legs sucked. And I, you know, I could try to do the pre-race sessions, but I know what a certain watts feels like. And it was like rate of perceived exertion was double what it should have been. Like I was just praying that by race day I'd feel better, but that really ruined it for me because I was so worried about my feelings and how I was so exhausted. And, you know, going down the spiral, did I train too hard? Did I not like, why do I feel this way?

Am I getting sick? But so, yeah, I didn't have the best time before the race. Yeah, I think like from my observation, like you may have struggled a little bit with motivation or mental aspect of some races this year. but this was like pretty obvious to me that your body was in fact just really off. Yeah. I thought that I was going to get my period the day of the race. And I thought that's why I felt so lethargic and horrible leading in. It turns out I got my period the day after the race, which is like definitely the worst case scenario.

Like for me, even if I had gotten it the day before, I always feel better the day after. but the days leading in are the worst. Oh, I see. And when I was warming up for this race, I thought if I was doing a training session right now, I would get out and go home. Right. Like it was so bad.

It was so bad. Not only the smart thing, but it's all I wanted to do. Yeah. Which is not how you want to be heading into a race, of course. It seems like a lot of the athletes were feeling similar on race morning, though. More so than usual, Eric, I mean, both of you, do you feel like more so than usual?

I was just like, I'm not feeling it. I don't know. Maybe it's just the people that we know, but three people, Paula being one of them, came up to me before the race and were like, I don't want to do this. This, you know, like, tell me it's going to be okay. Yeah, right. Like, wow, okay, this is like a little bit of a common theme. I didn't see anybody around just looking like.

Yeah, giddy. I don't know. Like, can't wait to dive in here and start this whole thing. Even Jackie, who's usually like the beacon of positivity, it was like, oh, I feel like death. She felt bad too, yeah. It was really crazy. I think something in the water. No, but the water was clean.

The water was clean. The water was clean. We're all healthy. I think there's just a little bit of an indication personally of like what time of the year this is. It's just, how many T-100s have there been now? It's really starting to feel like that time of the season where you're like, wow, I've been racing since March. This is, that's a lot. I'm kind of running out of steam a little bit.

And I just think like the last few races of the season are going to be, we can see some crazy things just because like some people are going to be exhausted. Some people will have been injured midseason. And are going to be coming out firing with something to prove. It could be, it could be wild. Yeah. But I mean, I finished six. So it wasn't a disaster in this type of a field. and I think before the swim I said to Eric like I'm just going to get out of the swim I don't think I'm going to finish this race and I never DNF unless I'm truly injured but that's how bad of a condition I was in before this so the fact that I could like muscle my way through it and get to the finish line was I guess like the win of the day but we can't all have like races every time where we feel amazing and I'm pretty lucky in general to have felt

good in most races this year. So whatever. So even before the race, we did have a TTL community event where we did a run together and a ton of people showed up. And just in general, I felt like at this race, there was so much TTR representation all over the place. I'm not sure what about this race attracted that, but maximum effort. Maximum effort. We've been talking about this on the podcast. You're right.

And myself and B, who is helping us out with community things moving forward, have been putting a ton of time into making sure that we had a tent and all these things that we could talk about, lining up these awesome new hoodies that you could only get at this event until they're put on the website later this week. We did a lot of work. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff, communicating with the T-100 on where we could have a cheer tent, this run thing.

It might look effortless, but there was a lot of effort, and I think it paid off. We were really unsure of what the attendance would be like at the TTL cheer tent and the TTL run. And just the T100 event in general. Yeah, it's not a 70.3. There's, what, 600 people in it versus thousands? 600, yeah, yeah. So I was skeptical that we might not get more than like, you know, five or ten people at the run or at the cheer tent.

But I was wrong. There was like 50 plus people at everything we did. Yeah. Yeah, it was huge. It ended up being a good vibe. So anyway, thanks to everyone who came out to that. And we'll definitely do more of them in other events next year. Yeah.

I actually just had a phone call with Kestelli, like two days before the race. And they are super excited about what we have going on and want to help us make sure that we can do things like this more in the future. And this, you know, this isn't, it wasn't free. There's a cost associated with it. And like, we want to have a space and the whole thing. So having support from a company and everything is going to be huge as well. But the goal is to basically put out a schedule of like, these are the four races or whatever that we're going to go super hard on next year. And then I'd also like to have, you know, some smaller events.

And if you use the TTL app, you can talk about just like setting up a meetup on your own pre-race run sort of a thing. But that's a huge mission for us moving forward. It's just like taking this whole community that we've put together and that people have come to join online into real life in races. And this just felt like a huge win for that. And we had some hoodies that we were selling there that were premiered there. And it was really cool to see people walking around all week with the hoodies on. I wore mine all week, too. It's really comfortable.

And they should be up for sale on the website as of the Wednesday at noon. So the podcast is out on Thursday. So they are up now. Yep. We went, we ordered a lot. We've had a lot of people lately, you know, lamenting or, you know, I wouldn't say complaining, but sad that we run out of things so quickly. So we ordered a lot.

A little bit nerve-wracking for us, but we got a lot so that everybody could get one. And so... We also have Orca Swim Caps. I love those. Yeah. Which we've been waiting for also for a long time. There's four different colors and they're really nice. Yeah.

Yeah. We got quite a few launches kind of like lined up here for the fall and it's really exciting stuff. So go check that out. Sweet. Okay. So as far as the race goes, is it weird to have an Aussie exit that then doesn't start an end in the same place?

Is that common to like Osseyex? exit, but then come out and end in a completely different spot? So it was like a loop and a half course, basically, is what next thing? Exactly. I mean, it doesn't matter to me. But is that uncommon? I just don't know. Yeah, it's a bit uncommon because it means you have to have a different swim start than a swim

finish. A bit further away than the swim finish. So logistically, for the organizers, maybe a little more complicated. But it was the only way to do it because there was this beach where we all ran into the water. I just realized for the age group race, they did the same thing that my sprint had, where you could put your running shoes at the exit of the swim to run to...

It wasn't that far, though, was it? Because your transition was so much closer to the swim start than the pro one was. Right, yes. That's right. You guys had a totally different area there. But we still had to run, like, I don't know, at least a quarter of a mile.

I just ran barefoot. It was fine. Yeah. Okay, and then your swim group stayed together for the most part, right? It was like pretty controlled. Nothing like exploded out in any direction. Yeah, these fields are so small

that the start for me at least was not rough. I had pretty clear water. And again, zero expectations. I thought I was just doing a swim and then calling it a day. Right. But I was open-minded and like warming up into it. So I didn't have as good of a start as I would have if I was firing on all cylinders. But I found myself beside our TTL Devo athlete Kate.

And she was a little rough on the swim. So I just kind of like went on her feet so I didn't have to fight. and it was a fine group. I mean, we bled a lot of time to Taylor and Flora and the other Taylor and Haley-Chura. So that was not great, but I came out with people like Julie Duran and Lucy Byram and people that I know are good on the bike. So I wasn't panicking. And again, I thought I was just taking it very step-by-step this whole thing. It seemed to me like you're like you had a good swim, like a better swim than a be-s-it, don't you think?

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Like, yeah, there was a little pack of four that was off the front, but I think that happened in Abiza. And then you were kind of like dangling on the back of the main group in Abiza. And here it seemed like you were solidly in that middle group. And then all of a sudden there was a back group that just really lost time. Yeah, the wetsuit.

I like a wetsuit swim a lot. Yeah. So, that helps me. Which was a bit of a surprise, right? Like a lot of people thought that there would be no wetsuit, especially for the pros. Yeah, well, leading into this race, it was so hot. And it was hot in the race, like for the men, especially. they started at two. So it ended up being hot. But for us, we started at eight and it was a windy day. So I never really felt like it was very hot. And a wetsuit was a good call because the air temperature was quite chilly at the start. So the water was 21 degrees, I think, just below the cutoff. So yeah. How was that? Good. Okay. Then on to the bike. And you were probably hoping to ride with Lucy, I'm guessing.

Well, I was riding with Lucy and then she got a penalty. They were handing out penalties to people who have absolutely no intention of drafting. Yeah, Lucy's always at the front, right? Yes, we all want more drafting penalties in these races for people that deserve them. But I'd say that the three drafting penalties that were given out during the women's race were to people who absolutely do not cheat. Lucy got one, I got one, and Flora got one. You have to read the intent of the person. and their effort or their apparent effort to try to get out of the draft zone in time

or to be not cheating, to be following the rules. So when Flora passed me on a very steep hill, I had 45 seconds to get out of her draft zone. And I sat up, I reduced my watts by 100. And I was like basically soft peddling, took a drink as Flora was pulling ahead of me, but on a steep hill, this does not happen very quickly. So I took maybe a bit more than 45 seconds to drop back 20 meters and the ref comes up beside me and gives me a drafting penalty. My first drafting penalty ever, literally the opposite of drafting. I was dropping back on a steep hill.

Like, do you really think I was gaining an advantage here? So I'm not just whining about this because it affected my race. I think that the same situation happened to Lucy and to Flora. So yes, there needs to be pestle. penalties, but are we just handing them out for the sake of like a broadcast and for making it exciting or trying to make it exciting or trying to show that yes, now we get penalties. We're really intense. There's definitely situations in T-100 racing where people are too close and people deserve penalties.

Yes. But this was not those situations. So anyway, Lucy got a penalty right away. And I was bummed because I like riding with her. Of course. She's really good on the bike. I was bummed as well. That changed the race a lot.

She stopped at the penalty 10. I was like, damn, should I, like, wait for her? Like, this is not good. And then Flora, who is about a minute up the road from me, then gets a penalty. So I catch her. And then me and Flora are riding together. And then on the last lap, I get a penalty. So I'm in the penalty 10, and Taylor Spivey catches up to me.

It was just so ridiculous. So I, whatever, I got off the bike a little bit ahead of Svibe, way back from Flora, or a minute back from Florida. because that was my penalty. And I didn't really talk about my feelings during the ride. I did not feel good. I was just getting around the course and trying to push the hills as much as I could. And I don't know, it was a pretty relentless bike course because even on the descents,

there was a really big crosswind. So it took a lot of mental energy to stay on the power and stay arrow and focused when things were literally uncomfortable for the entire ride. There was no point of reprieve at all. except for during my one minute penalty, that was quite relaxing. That's the first time you've ever gotten to take a full break like that in the middle of a race. What was that like? And I was so annoyed that I was just, I was trying to keep my cool, but I didn't care at this point.

It did throw me off, though. Like the whole last lap I was thinking about how dumb it was and I was mad. Did that anger fuel your legs? It didn't and it should have. I was like, wow, I should try harder on this lap because I get a one-minute break, but it worked the opposite way. I see. I was like, F this. I hate this. It seems like most pros, you guys, like, there's no, you don't like any aspect of the one-minute

penalty. Like, of course you don't like that it makes your race lower. The only thing I like about the one-minute penalty is that it doesn't take you out of the race. Yeah, right. I think it's good. Imagine if I had gotten a five-minute penalty for that. My race is over and I, yeah, so it's only good for that reason. And it breaks up theoretically if someone is actually drafting, it takes them out of that pack. Right. So they can't be in there anymore.

But doesn't ruin their entire day. Yeah. Yeah. So I generally like the idea. But it has to be implemented properly. It has to be used by referees who understand Race Ranger and aren't using it for the first time and going by literally what the blinking red light is saying. I mean, I feel like one could even make the argument that the way that they gave your penalty could be deemed as fair in the way that they're going to do it moving forward. They just, you've got to be like super upfront about that in the future.

Yeah, it's like they've never given a penalty ever, and then suddenly I get one for that. Yeah. Like, that's the last thing I was ever expecting. Yeah, like, okay, just so you know everybody, 20 meters uphill, downhill around a corner, literally everywhere we don't care. If the right light is red, the timer's running. It's like, okay. You see I've been riding on my own with no one in front of me for the last two hours. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway. Because like that could ultimately become a tactic of like if Flora is able to get it in front of you just before the hill, then you have to slow back off 20 meters of uphill, which turns into like 60 meters once you've peaked over the hill. It can become a tactic. It could become a tactic, you know, so it's just, it's like just establishing here's how we're going to do it.

Yeah. And around you turns too. It's going to be that literal. You just got to be like, we're going to be literal. And the reason Flora came around me then, she said to me after like she didn't really intend to, but she was scared of getting another penalty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what she said.

She's like, I had to go around you. That's right. So, yeah, it just creates this, like, kind of messy situation where ultimately me and Flora are then both moving slower together, you know? Right. As we bleed time to nib and whoever's up the road. That's just, like, this was a big thing that I, that I don't miss since I haven't been doing any 70.3s this year, but that stressed me out constantly was that, like, I would have

a hard time falling asleep the night before the race because I was worried about getting a penalty. It's like, you get out of the water and there's, like, 30 dudes have just got out of the water in that whole like sorting yourself out process of like I don't want to get a penalty but I also don't want to be so far back that people are slotting in front of me and then I'm like losing time to the front that I worked for on the swim like that was that is not a fun way to race versus just like trying to go hard anyway that was very whiny of me but I it I haven't talked about it on any other social media platform yet and it was it I think it was a problem for I mean that needs

to be made known. Anyway, on the run. The run. I did not feel good again. Couldn't imagine doing the lap six times or the thing six times. Did you know the course beforehand? Yeah, we'd driven it in a golf course and a golf cart. So I was aware of the steep hills.

It was kind of like it was a 3K loop. So one and a half K up with some really steep pitches and then one and a half K kind of rolling back down. So the nice part was you did get a little bit of a recovery on that downhill. Although the downhills were steep and twisty, your heart rate comes down. So that was good. The TTL cheer tent was nice. Yeah, we were really cheering for you guys.

The women's race specifically was pretty fun. Yeah, and Taylor Nib, this is the first time also that I've ever been lapped by her on the run. I was in fifth place in the race, like a respectable position, getting lapped by Taylor. So that was really embarrassing, but... It's a short, really short, love course. It's a 12-minute loop. I mean, that's a long way. Anyway, I used her in front of me trying to stay out of the camera

because I didn't want to, you know, make it everyone aware, ruin her shot or whatever. But I used her a little bit like a carrot to get my head back in it. And I did end up running better when she came around me because I had something else to focus on and I wasn't just like sludging through this thing. So Laura Phillip was a minute back for me. I was trying to hold her off.

And yeah, just kind of trying to create my. own challenges in my mind instead of like thinking about the fact that I'm laughed or thinking about the fact that I'm not going to podium. So I did feel better as the run went on and finished in sixth. Just like really relieved. Like all winners do finish in six. Real relieved to finish that race. Not happy, not excited about my position, but just relief. Kind of like shock that I got through it after how I'd felt. And yeah, just like I got punched and beat up and it was over. I'm alive. It would be a tough day at the office. Paula, first of all, when we sat down here, there was no wind and now there's hurricane force winds blowing through these trees.

Yeah, are we going to be able to use this? Yeah, it just, you know, listeners just pretend like you're out here in beautiful nature with us. That's why you're hearing this. This breeze. But for us, when we turned off the last loop to go towards the finish, it was so much further to the finish than I expected. Was it the same for you guys? Or pretty much when you turned off to the finish, it was there? No, we had the exact same finish of the course as you. Oh, my gosh.

Which was fine because I was in no man's land, as were you, a little bit. Yeah, but a little bit, you're measuring your effort to line up with your perceived finish line. Well, I think that's where a little bit of course preview would have helped, which I didn't do to be fair. Sure. Like, I did the loop, but I didn't see like, okay, on the exit of the loop to the actual finish line. Right.

What does that look like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's another couple minutes of running. It's not like. It was five extra minutes of running. No, it was not five. I checked for me. It was five.

It was five. It was five last night. Okay, well, you were crawling. I was crawling. I was crawling. Okay, so you survived, and I will say as much as you're saying the race was hard and that you didn't feel good and that you weren't happy with it, your mood bounced back super quick. Instantly. It did?

Right away. Well, this is funny. Flynn came into the post-athlete recovery tent with us, and he's been outside playing fetch with you guys all day with no water. So he drinks like two bottles of water and then we're in this like fancy recovery tent alone with Flynn and he throws up his. entire breakfast all over the floor. So then I bounced back to like, oh wow, okay, the race is over. Clean up this vomit. It's not about you and whatever you just did. You need to clean up this throw up. And it truly snapped me out of it. And then I was like, okay, back to this day. Back to reality. Yeah. That's over. It's not even noon yet. That's pretty funny, actually. Yeah.

It did help me a lot. That throw up. There's just something you don't hear every day. A combination of words. snapped my out of my pity party. Yeah, no, it was great. You still did well, and you know, you were there against Iron Man World Champions, former Iron Man World Champions, Olympic gold medalists. Yeah, that's it. I was whining with Jackie about our finish, and she's very positive and sees the light and everything.

And she made me real, it reminded me that four people ahead of me are Olympic medalists. That's crazy. And so, we're so hard on ourselves, measuring our stuff. against these people that are the best in the absolute world. And sometimes I feel like I don't belong in that crew. But then when you try to think about how many people think that what we're doing is so amazing and we're so fast and, you know, it's actually crazy that we all finish that. Not just the pros, but you too, Nick, the amateur race. It's so hard. It was hard. So I guess pat yourself on the back for that. Did you feel like the bike was more challenging or the run was

more challenging for you? Mentally, the bike, because I usually have that as my strength and putting time in versus kind of just getting through it. But the run was tough, too. I don't know. The run was harder for me, for sure. Yeah. I felt I was actually really loving the bike.

Yeah. It was a roller coastery course. Like, I think as much as we're saying this, it was a good course. It was a well-run event. I think from your perspective as an age group or the T-100 race. have a bit of a premium feel to them. Very much. Well, first of all, like, it's clear that they are putting a lot of money into it.

Like, the age rooper gets to see that. Yes. The whole, it's put on really well. The bag we got with the race is like a really nice bag. We got, like, a mug, a very nice bottle, a really nice t-shirt. It was a lot. And then the whole race itself had a very premium feel to it, run really well. Everything was super well-marked.

There was people everywhere directing. and yeah, it's a really nice experience for an age grouper. Yeah. Do that you prefer over a 70.3? The thing that 70.3 has right now is just the jeune-se-cois, the inexplicable feeling that Iron Man brings to races. But I don't think that that is, I don't think Iron Man has a monopoly on that. I think T-100 could absolutely capture that same kind of magic

if they continue to do what they're doing. What I think is interesting is Iron Man definitely has a critical mass. So there's a lot of people at every event, and that creates a bit of energy. But also, they're just, they're different brands. And, like, hearing you say that T-100 is this super premium experience with super high-quality bag and super-high-quality, you know, and branding in such a way, it's just, it's like that didn't change whether or not you were able to stay on course or whether or not you got water on the course. And I think Iron Man's brand is just slightly more, you know, in the direction of granola or

whatever that like casualness. It's still more expensive though. It's still a premium experience but their brand is just slightly different than T-100 to me feels like a little bit more European and like you said like very, very clean. And Iron Man is maybe more about the individual age group athlete focused and T-100.

I mean that was my biggest takeaway from the kind of people that showed up at this race, both spectators and participants is that the people that showed up at this T-100 race, they were part of the triathlon community. They weren't there to check a box. They weren't there to tell themselves that they could do it. They were there because they love triathlon already. They already have a relationship with triathlon.

This was, I don't think, many people's first introduction to the triathlon community. I think Iron Man attracts a lot of people who are, maybe, like, we're never athletes in their life. And they're just like, I'm going to do a triathlon. lot. And maybe they'll never do another one again. And they will maybe never do another. Or maybe they will. No, that's really interesting.

For better or for worse, you have like a more dedicated, serious group potentially. Yeah. Who also happened to follow the profile a little more closely than I think you would find it the average Iron Man event. So that was like the crazy thing for me. Just my takeaway from our whole TTL cheer activation experience, the group run and everything was like the cheering was most insane during Paul. race in the morning. The women's field, what people came out and turned up for that. And then there

were some people out for the men's race, but not quite as much. And then I really thought that the age group race on Sunday was going to be the thing where there was, you know, a bunch of partners of people who were racing that were out cheering and wanted something to do. And that wasn't the case. And I don't know if that was, you know, just had to do with how the course was set up or what, but there were hardly anybody like in one collected spot. And I guess I should just say that it was like super exciting to me, how many people came out for the pro race. Yeah.

Because I didn't think that was going to be the case. Yeah, that was a surprise. I also would assume the age group race would have been. People who were racing the next day, still coming out and like getting crazy and showing support. And that was just really cool. Yeah. That was the highlight was the community aspect of the whole thing.

Cool. Well, great. And then we left Vegas. and we drove through Death Valley, slept in Death Valley one night. Enjoyed that. That was fun. Those crazy ups and downs

going up to 5,000 feet down to below sea level. Yeah, Death Valley is a wild place. It's one of the hottest places on Earth. Is the hottest place on Earth? It gets hotter than anywhere else on Earth. In the summer. So we were there,

obviously not at peak summertime, but funded out through there. Now we're in Mammoth, and then Eric and I are going to make her way back up to Bend this afternoon. Yeah. Are we going to do a normal format and do some questions?

Let's do some questions. Okay. Okay, this question is from Michael. What do you think of triathlon professionals, former professionals, or retired professionals competing in age group ranks? There's a big gap between top pros like yourself and those who just barely qualify for their pro card. Some of the ones on the lower end race as age groupers either while a pro or after. What about yourselves?

Would you ever race as an age group or after you retire? I have opinions about this, but I'm more interested in yours. Thanks for making us all feel connected. Michael. Yeah, I got some opinions. I remember when I raced against Nick Chase in Malibu Try, and he smoked me. Yeah. We have answered this on the podcast a long time ago.

Yeah, a long time ago, but I'm not sure if it was this specific kind of angle on. And plus we're like over 100 episodes in. Yeah. We can repeat it. I would not, personally. I would not. And why? Because I'm not doing another triathlon after I retire.

That's one reason. I think, yeah, I think for like Paul and I, we've made a career out of racing. competitively as fast as we can in the training that goes into that. And even me, just as I've swam a lot less this year and stuff, the thought of, like, getting on a start line and I'm not sure I would have the ability to disconnect from, I'm trying to go as fast as I can, and I'm just going to be out here and experience it. But if I did do this for some reason, if there was a course out there that just really got me excited, like, I really wanted to do Norseman when I'm 45 or something like that,

I would be tempted to almost say, like, don't put me in the results. Yeah. Like, I want to go out there and be a, amongst the people and like complete the course and everything, but I don't want to like kick somebody off of the podium. You know, like I just don't care. And if you've been retired for 10 years? Yeah, sure. I just can't imagine that's like what I'm going to do. You did it at four. I just want to go experience it and like complete the course. I would be completely fine with competing in a master's division when I'm older in running or I think that's totally fine. But they don't really do that in

triathlon. It's more, it is grouped into age groups. And if I'm, I don't think I'm likely to go and do an Ironman as an age grouper, but I think I could do a trail race or a, or an on-road marathon. And in that case, I'm totally fine with being part of the age group that I'm in at that time. Yeah. And I'm not competing for money or anything. Of course, I'm racing as an age grouper, but it's in a, it's in a different sport. Time has passed. I used to race professionally, but we all have backgrounds that are different. And I don't know. I think that's fair. Yeah, yeah, completely. In a sport that we were not in.

And I also think that just the nature of triathlon is almost every event out there now seems to be some sort of qualification for some other level of event. People are trying to get to world championships and just not get in the way of that versus, yeah, a 10K or marathon. We didn't spend our entire lives trip to be super fast marathoners and you're not going to ruin somebody's day. And the way that marathons work is you're trying to get like a qualifying time or something. Right. which is a very individual pursuit versus place in your age group. I feel like that's much more of a triathlon goal for people than in running. Yeah.

When I'm signing up for local races, there's sometimes an option to sign up in the open division where you do not get put in age group placing at the end. And I think it's designed for people who don't even want, it's there on the other end where they're like, I'm not fast and I don't even want to put that idea in my own head. And I don't want to be compared to other people. other people. So it's not like a slower people. It's not an elite wave.

It's just a. Yes. Yeah. Just here to be here. Yeah. Just here to be here. Just here to do the thing. We're just trying to satisfy everyone's psyche needs.

Yeah. We all do the sport for very different reasons, even if at the end we're all like doing the same race. You know what I think? I don't know how we want to position this, but something that this made me think of was this really interesting conversation that was going on in the app where a guy was complaining. Unfortunately, I think he was a little bit agro, but we let it roll. about the T-100 and the way that they lined up the age group

start waves. So they had the 19 to 25-year-old men go and then like the 80-year-old women and then like the 80-year-old men and then like some time like 30 minutes later the 35-year-old men and he was complaining how that's completely not fair as one who's like trying to win the race

because the 29-year-old guys have open water in front of them. Open water. Yeah. Which is... I get it. Yeah. I, like, totally understand. I just, like, what is the solution here?

Because I feel like back in the day, it was just, like, youngest to oldest was kind of the way it went. Or there was, like, it was just a mass start. But now that we have the rolling start thing, like, yes, you clean water, but also it's not like you're right next to somebody who you're racing. You're still just, like, straight up time trialing. Yeah. So I don't know what the solution is there. That is funny. I would love to do a race with a mass starting.

Because, like, we met this guy. Sean during the race. And we were the same age group and we thought it'd be fun to race each other. And it turned out that less than a mile before the finish, I caught him on the run. And then we were running toe to toe until the end. And he was like, let's do a sprint finish.

And so we did a sprint finish and he beat me on the sprint finish by a little bit. And we thought, okay, Sean won the race. But we didn't start at the same time. Yeah. We started a minute different from each other. You actually beat him. I actually did beat him.

But I didn't know that at the time. It would be nice to have that. You guys have that as pros of like, oh, you know, whoever's right in front of me. It would be fun to be able to stick with them. Yeah. Yeah, it's a race. Yeah. I kind of think a lot, like, if I'd been a young athlete trying to get into triathlon and everything,

it had been rolling starts and I wasn't able to like see the other young kid around me and feeling like, oh, if I'm at the front of this, I'm really at the front of this. That was so exciting to me. Have you been the rolling start thing? I don't know if I would have like continued on the trajectory that kept getting me so excited to get better So the issue with the mass starts is that it's a little bit dangerous.

Correct. I would be interested to see some data. Like have in-water deaths decreased at all? I don't think it's about real danger. I think it's about perceived danger and how that affects people wanting to do the race at all. It's about money. But if it's a mass start and you are worried,

you just start very, very at the back of the mass. Yeah. You're trying to make sense of something I think that isn't a rational fear for a lot of people. They feel like they're just going to get washing machined up when they start. Weaker swimmers. I wonder if there is still a room for an elite wave. We're like, hey, if you're like super concerned about your finish time and you don't care

about the mass start, put yourself, we got room for 200 people, mass start at the beginning, then everyone else can rolling start whenever you want. This is the perfect. That does feel like the perfect compromise. That's the both worlds. You just put yourself in the elite wave. You've decided to do that. And you still might not win the overall race.

Right? Some guy who started in his age group wins it. Yeah, but you would think that that's unlikely because if you want to win your age group, you want that clean water and you want to be around people and you want to cross the finish line first. So I think it might just like self-work itself out. I love that idea. All right. All right. Motion carried.

That sounds going to be from now on. Listen to this. Wonderful. Okay. We ready for our next question here? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Our next question here is from Pierre.

Hi, team. I have a question travels. When I travel for a triathlon, I sometimes end up in a hotel which is noisy. And I have a hard time to sleep even with earplugs. I guess that you as well have the same issue, and especially in PTO 100 EBSA. Do you have any recommendations for that? Maybe active noise cancelling earbuds pier. I have many thoughts about this, but do you guys have anything as pros that you do?

Man, we threw everything at that situation in Abiza. Did you have like... I put on the Apple I what are they called? AirPods? Not AirPods like the ones that go over your ears. Yeah the max yeah

the max and you have to sleep on your back in that case which is not the most comfortable for me but it did cancel out the noise of the concert. Right. And that was I think the ultimate test of what works because that was so loud

and regular earplugs didn't work but 99% of the time regular earplugs I think will do the job And I usually also putting on some white noise or brown noise on my Spotify, just that there's some like ambient noise in your room and it's not so silent that you hear every other noise that's going on. That helps too. Sometimes I'll put on a podcast to fall asleep. I don't know. I have a lot of different tricks. But what's interesting is when I put a podcast on to fall asleep, I can't once ever in my life remember the timer for the podcast finishing and me still being awake. 100% of the time. Oh, you're already asleep. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Even when I said it for like five minutes, I don't make it to five minutes. I make it to the end sometimes.

I do it for 15 minutes and then, but I've never remember hearing it stop. Eric, do you, what do you do when that happens? Do you? You know, honestly, I was just thinking about it. I haven't had it happen in a while and it's kind of just been since I stopped working after dinner. Like the last year, it's like definitely decreased my productivity, but I made kind of a pact with myself to not start editing or working on things after Paul and I have dinner.

and just try to be present and watch a show, watch the Oilers game, whatever. And I don't remember having had this problem for a long time now. Through of deviating a bit from his question. Yeah, sorry. I'll tell you what I have found. If you have an iPhone, there is a really cool feature that if it's, I think it's meant for issues with hearing,

like it's under accessibility. But there is this, you can play white noise that loops automa. It doesn't loop. but just like exists and play. So you don't have to go through Spotify or anything like that. And you can also, you can play other sounds while it's happening. So for example, if you want it to fall asleep to a podcast, the white noise is happening in the background.

And then once the podcast stops, the white noise continues. So you can have it go all night. It's kind of like a background app. And do you have to have your AirPods on? You don't have to have your AirPods on. No, absolutely not. But I, I, that's a trick for me. It's noise cancelling AirPods with white noise.

Here's a master level thing. And then if a fire alarm goes off, you're burning to the ground. Yeah, good luck. Do you think that you could write out a recipe, what you just described, your master recipe for falling asleep? Yeah, absolutely. The chipmong rustling in the bush is white noise paired with the such and such podcast. Yes, absolutely.

That people could recreate. Well, we of course want you to fall asleep to this podcast. I don't know if we do, though. It's funny because people will tell me that sometimes, and I can always tell their tentative in telling me because they don't want to insult me. They're like, I sometimes fall asleep to your guy's voices. I'm like, it's great. That's nice.

It's fine. It means you feel comfortable. Yeah. Well, for me, the podcast, my go-to podcast for falling asleep is the work play love podcast. And you like it. Lauren Fleshman and Jesse Thomas, they haven't recorded since like 2019, but I just have listened to every episode probably two or three times. but it's not because it's boring.

It's because I like their conversation. It makes me think about nothing but what's happening in their question and answer. Yeah. And yeah, I guess ultimately their voices are soothing. Yeah, sometimes you just want to like derail your own train of thought. Yes, which they do really well. And we're a little bit similar to them in our format. So I don't know.

The white noise app, you do it through, it looks like an ear. And you just add it to your control center on your phone. and then there's options for white noise. Different kinds of noise. There's even like thunderstorm, rain, river, ocean. Is that only on your fancy-ass new phone? No, no, no, no. It's on it.

I've been using it forever. Look, you hear it? Balance noise. Here we, and now we have ocean. Oh, that is nice. I mean, you could have been using this forever, and our iPhone still would not have it. We're like 12s.

You're right, you're right. That's really cool, Nick. Okay, I'm going to check that up. The only issue I'll say is that the AirPods, the in-air ones, will not last nine hours. So I can get over the hump. So I can fall asleep, whatever, with just the phone playing white noise or something. But then even if you're in a room with someone snoring, I put those in and it fixes a problem.

And with the inner ones, you can sleep going yourself. I am definitely not. But someone listening to this podcast might expect to be able to do that while listening to White Noise. Man, that is crazy in nine hours. Okay. Back to the class. Next question. Next question.

And I would say maybe our last. Eh, it doesn't need to be our last. This is from Alvaro. Hi, all, from a Spain day one listener. Thank you for all the inspiring and valuable content you share. I'm a PE teacher passionate about all kinds of sport in general and triathlon in particular. Teachers in Spain have the opportunity to move to the U.S. for two to three years, and I'm planning to do it next year.

So here's my question. Can you rank your top five states to live in, considering weather for training and doing all kinds of sports, ratio between life expenses and salary, and atmosphere? year. And this is, Alvar also gives us his resume. With all the knowledge you have considering, you have to move. Where would you go? Thanks in advance. Wish you all the best in Lake Las Vegas. You know, the first thing that this makes me think is just like the European concept of like, oh, Michigan must be one way and Oregon must be another way. And California must be a way. You don't agree? You don't think that's true? I mean, like generally, but if it's almost more like

city dependent, I feel like, because if you were talking about like, oh, just go to Oregon, it's great. And then you ended up in like, Madras. Madras, Oregon, like, assuming it was going to be similar to Portland or Eugene or like each city is can be so crazily different. Even within California. Oh, my. Yeah. Fresno versus San Diego. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Well, he's like, I think because he's from Europe, he's not thinking of it that way. I think in Europe, countries are very similar. So he's thinking of states as countries maybe.

I don't know. Yeah. But let's just maybe go by state and then a specific city, top five. What would you say? I think in general the East Coast is tough for triathlon training because you have the winters. It's a little denser. Denser. Yeah.

And you got humid summers, hot summers. Yeah. I would be careful about that. I think people love Colorado. People love Denver, Boulder area. You have winter there. But there's a lot of triathletes still there. I'm going to argue that there's nowhere in the United States that's perfect all year,

except maybe like where you live, Nick, but then the problem you run into in California is population density. Very high cost of living. And a lot of, yeah. And with a population density comes a lot of car traffic. Yes. So there's really not a perfect place. Stay in Europe.

Gerona. Yeah, like, honestly, Europe is so much better for training. If we could just break it down by climate. California is going to be pretty nice all year round. Like just temperate. It's never going to be super duper hot. If you're closer to the ocean, if you move north into the northwest, very, very beautiful, slightly less people. But you're going to have generally like kind of rainy winters.

And similarly, you go straight across the other side of the country, like the northeast side. That's like some snow, pretty wet, gray. And if you're down in like the Florida, the south, that's like very, very, very, you know, muggy. You're not into the opposite problem there where the winters are nice, but the summers are too hot. Yeah. And same in Tucson.

Yeah, Arizona, very hot in the summer. Texas, very, very hot in the summer. I would say, like, generally, I think the West Coast is like a little bit, and like Denver and that area is like a little bit more used to bikes on the road and just like kind of general outdoorsy people. You don't have as much, as many people that are like, couldn't have. imagine ever exercising. You get a little more of that like in maybe, you know, South Florida sort of zone.

I don't know. My top places to train and we're lucky because we can move based on the season. But Ventura, California, although it's extremely expensive. I was thinking that might be the number, the best place in terms of not crazy expensive compared to where I live. And then you still have some of the best bike riding in the country. Obviously great running. Okay.

There's less. If you want to run. flat and soft, not a lot of great options. If you want to ride straight... That's why this is such a conversation of going in circles, because there's literally no way that's perfect. If you want to ride straight from the door, you know, Tucson, you might be able to ride more straight from the door.

There's a little bit of driving involved. I personally, like, for what I like, the exact block where I live, I think, is perfect, but I don't require the flat, soft running, which is the big difference for you guys. and for a lot of people who do more volume in their running. Yeah. People like Boulder because, or Denver zone, because they enjoy seasons, I think that seasons are not all bad, and maybe this person that's sending this in would be okay with living through a winter

as long as it wasn't so harsh that you can hardly go outside. But even in Bend, a lot of the winter days, we can still go out on our gravel bikes on the road when the sun melts the ice. And you just wear winter clothing and embrace the winter a little more than you would need to if you are always chasing the sunshine in the summer, and it's completely fine with us. So I actually love winter for a lot of reasons and could live in Boulder, Denver, Colorado, Oregon, Bend, very happily.

Great training in the summer and then fine in the winter as well. Boisey's very similar. I was thinking about Boise. Boise is a good option. I was thinking about Boise, but it is pretty snowy there in the winter now. So Boulder, Boise, Bend, Ventura, or Tucson. If you really, really, really like mountain bikes, Bentonville. Benton.

Bentonville. Lots of bees. Yeah. There we go. Next question. That's a tough one. Yeah, that is a tough one. But when we were training in Switzerland, we were like, wow, why wouldn't we just train

here all the time? If we lived in Europe. Because coffees are $9. Yeah, it's expensive. And everything else is similar. Right. Okay, well, I did want to mention something that we talked about in the last podcast, that we did get an official answer from as far as why expensive bikes seem to have

louder free help on. Oh, yeah. So Eric, you emailed a guy at Zip. I emailed multiple people at Zip. I try to find it. We don't have enough service to look it up. Okay. But I remember roughly what he said,

unless you think you can pull it up reliably. I didn't text it to you? Did you text? There was a follow-up email as well. Two different people from Zip from SRAM chimed in on this. And it's definitely not like a, if dollars go up, hub noise goes up.

It's got a lot more to do with the actual internals of the hub. Is it an aluminum hub? Is it some sort of heavier material? And then a lot of the times on a higher end hub, you'll have a lower viscosity oil in there, which is faster,

might need to be serviced more often, but it's the fastest thing. And that lower viscosity oil creates more clicking. Versus if you have a grease in there that's like really thick, it's going to last longer. It's going to be louder.

I mean, it's going to be quieter, but also, you know, be slower. Something that he said in that message that I thought was really interesting is what makes a really good cheap hub, one that lasts a long time? So you put a little extra grease in there. You use things that maybe are a little more tenacious that will stand the test of time. What makes a really good high performance hub, one that is fast and that does not create a lot of drag? So you're using the minimum amount of certain materials to facilitate that, which is a really good high performance. it ends up being louder. Things might be hollow.

Yeah, exactly. The carbon rims sometimes enhance the noise situation of it. So a lot of ins, a lot of outs. No one exact reason, but it's not just price. It makes louder. I wonder if anyone out there is tallying up the amount of Big Lebowski quotes that have slowly trickled in on this podcast over the years. I hope someone appreciates it.

Okay, last question here. We'll do it from Ben. Hi TTL crew Pod supporter and lover of all things TTL with a bike fit question If you lived somewhere that there wasn't a bike fit Or anywhere close, would you consider using one of those Bike Fit apps?

For example, my velo fit That are out there Just to step in, I have no idea. I've never used one. Okay. I think it's an interesting intellectual discussion either way. Okay.

I didn't even know they existed. Neither did I. That they're out there at least to see if your fit was somewhere in a good range. Thanks for your time and especially thanks for not putting ad reads on the podcast. Also jealous of Nick and Eric being in Golden, Colorado, so this was a bit ago. You'd probably be jealous of where you are now, too, though.

This is incredible. I mean, I don't know if we're going to put this video out, but there's like a beautiful, rocky peak behind us in a gorgeous mountain lake here. Like, when I think about all the things we've done in the last three months, it's like, no, shit, I was tired on this race. But also, everything's cool. Yeah, which is that more important? I don't know. You didn't traips around the mountains of Golden. Yeah, I didn't go to Golden.

But I was in Portland while you guys were in Golden. Doing this on thing. Yeah, so it's been nonstop. Okay, so let's paint a scenario here. How about using one of these in place of a real person? Using an app in place of a real person? Yeah. I think that like using your intuition is also good.

Like yesterday I pulled a brand new bike out of the back of the storyteller, the diverge, and just like sort of guessed my saddle height, fiddled with it a couple times. And then did a two-hour ride. Well, first of all, how often is a bike fitter not asked for you, how does this feel? How does this feel? They always do. They always do. It's like, here's what I think we should do based on the numbers, but like, how does this feel?

And sometimes they'll do a thing where they just like, okay, I changed something. Do you like it more or less? Right. And I think the whole thing about Retool is that you have all the senses attached to you, and then it'll give you the angles and the dimensions and everything and then compare you to the average person, which can be helpful. but if you're in the red and you're outside of what like the mass of people have for their knee angle at the bottom of the pedal stroke, for example. You know, you want to fit it sort of within what's normal, but it might not feel comfortable.

So you don't want that to get in your head. Yeah. Can we back up just a little bit? Do you know how the apps work? Like I can't even say no to an app if I have no idea how it even works. You take a side video of you and it sees the points. It probably does similar to where you are. It just makes it really educational.

really educated guess about where your pivot points are. The thing that scares me about this is like, have you ever assembled a piece of IKEA furniture? And then you're like three quarters away and you're like, oh, panel 13, I put it in upside down. And that's why this isn't fitting. It's like, okay, what if you make a similar kind of mistake in your process or the app makes a little mistake?

And now you're like saddles, you think you're doing the recommended, but it's like six inches too far in front. You're like, I guess this is especially if you don't know, especially if you don't know. It's your first time. You're like, so it scares me to do it in. the replacement of a real fitter. Yeah, I think the slam dunk, if I was the app developer here, would be to have, like,

a team of a few different bike fitters who would go in and, like, check off and be like, yep, that looks good, that looks good. Or send you an email and be like, hey, John, from whatever, you messed up. You should start over. Yeah. I think there's a lot of bike fitters that also do remote fits online. Like, so you're talking to a human, but it's on Zoom or whatever. That would be good.

That's interesting. Does Ivan do that maybe? I'm not really sure. But anyway, if people don't, we should start doing that. I think if you're going to, for sure, like, I'm not doing a legit bike fit. Then this is probably also in harmony with what you're feeling a good thing to do. Why not? It's like, oh, okay.

My saddle is way too long. Theoretically should be better than nothing. My struggle with bike fits over the years that I've had is that when you're riding on the trainer, off and on your bike, off and on your bike, tinker with this, get back on, change your cleats, get back on. I have a really hard time having an objective feeling of, is this better or worse? Than when I started two hours ago.

Yes, because you just get, I've always left bike fits feeling exhausted, stressed, and not confident that the things I've changed are better. So unless you're going in real fresh, and this is your first TTI bike or your first road bike, and you don't even really know what it should feel like, sometimes in-person bike fits can be a little bit overwhelming. And I'm not, we say that bike fits are great all the time on this podcast.

We're really encourage them. If we're trying to, yeah, if we're trying to build a case for why you could do the app. Yeah. This is a good train of thought. Yeah. Yeah.

Fun. Well, here we are, finishing our podcast in Mammoth Lakes, California. Beautiful. Our first outdoor podcast. I hope the sound quality was acceptable. And if it wasn't, I hope at least you got some,

You got a feeling that you're out here with us. I mean, maybe this is the new thing. Maybe this is the master podcast to listen to if you want to fall asleep because there's just gently blowing wind in the background. The white noise built in. The waves laughing against the shore. You're welcome. This is your go-to-sleep podcast. Wonderful.

Okay, what's next? Eric's doing a 50K. Nick's doing a half marathon at the same event on November 11th? November 10th, November 9, something like that. And you and I, you and I, Because of the staggered starts and our slight difference in fitness levels, we may end up finishing very similar times. We're going to sprint it out. Yeah.

We're going to sprint it out except you'll be maybe by two hours. And then the day after you guys race, I fly to Dubai. Oh, wow. That is wild. Doing a solo mission to Dubai without Eric. We're getting a premium economy, though. No, I'm getting business. Getting business.

I'm like, you're not coming. So nobody feels bad for you. No, the hack is... How does that make sense? I don't know, but don't tell anyone. You're telling, like, don't tell anyone. You're like 100,000 people. Yeah, we're cutting it out.

Sorry, we broke up there. Yeah, that's why. Yeah, I guess other things that we have coming up, I'm working, really looking forward to being able to work on making my broken top FKT video. I got a great bike build video Look at Flynn guys That's so funny Sorry Eric

Sorry Eric Go Broken Top FKT video I'm really looking forward to putting that out into the world Got a very cool bike build video If Paula's new diverge That bike is sick and both you guys have matching bikes It's really nice

I think that build video slash ride video is going to be very fun We did settle on thank you for everybody who participated in the polls to help us design on a TTL kit design for next year. We're going with the light gray ones and the dark gray ones. I never got to say.

What's the final decision? Did you vote? Because I voted on the app and in the Instagram polls. I voted, of course, what I like best. But I want a final say on what we're ultimately picking. Okay, so thank you for voting. It means nothing. It's actually irrelevant.

So we're just taking the top votes. That's the end of story. It was pretty unanimous. convincing. Yeah. Okay, okay. All right. Well, that's good then. So that prior will be happening. The Devo team applications are going to be happening. And stick around for a lot more TTO stuff.

All sorts of good stuff. Winter is fun. Also, sorry about my whiny race recap. People are going to be saying I'm a whiny princess. Wynie Waste Wecap. My whiny Waste Wecap. That's what happens when you have a terrible time. We need some sad music to play behind it. The important thing is we're all in a great mood now. You bounce back super quick.

And I think we're going to finish out the season on a high note. All right. I'll talk to you guys next week. Thanks, everyone. Later.