That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon brick runs, Crewing Western States Ultramarathon, and more!

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

This week, it’s back to business as we dig into your listener submitted questions. But first, we hear about Eric and Paula’s trip to crew for friend of the podcast Heather Jackson at Western States. We also cover some triathlon news, including a bold attempt at a sub 4 minute mile by a female athlete and the action at Ironman Frankfurt.In the question segment, we discussed:Doing brick runs in bib shortsSigning up for a 70.3 with budget gearCommon misconceptions within triathlonBikepackingShould you train with elastic laces?Disc vs deep wheels for 70.3 World Championships in MarbellaSunscreen strategy for racingA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcastSwim Sets With Paula:3200 totalWarm Up:300 swim 200 pull 100 kick8x25 as 1 build 1 FAST (800)Main Set:(4x25 fast + 2x150 mid-race effort + 100ez)x3(1500)3x200 pull paddles breathing 3,5,7,3 by 50(600) 300 mix kick/swim cd

Hello, everyone. Welcome to that Triathlon Life podcast. I'm Eric Lockerstrom. I'm Paula Fenley. I'm Nick Goldston. Just business as usual. Paul and I took an emergency trip down to Western States to help watch film, hangout, crew, Heather, as she did the craziest race that we've ever seen.

But we are already back. It was a whirlwind trip. So we're going to talk a little bit about that. And we got a whole bunch of questions from people who've written in. How much did it? it deter you or attract you to doing that race, both of you? I think I told you, because you asked me in the moment, how, you know, that very question. And I think at that point, I was still sitting on the ground at Michigan Bluff.

Cooking. Yeah, aka the surface of the sun. Also the halfway mark. I don't know if people know what Western States is. We have a very global audience of triathletes for the most part. Western States is a 100-mile race that happens every year. It's a really, really iconic. It's like the cone of trail running in a way.

It's similar to UTMB in Chamonie in August, but we went down to crew, our friend Heather Jackson, who most of you know as a retired pro triathlete, but crushing it on the trail and gravel scene. So that's why we went down there. But yeah, Eric was at Michigan Bluff, which we say these aid stations because we've just been living them for three days. like we know that we could rattle them off like exactly the mile markers,

but Michigan Bluff is at halfway. Yeah. And it's notoriously hot. You have just run out of a canyon, up out of a canyon that was recently burned in a fire, so it's completely exposed to the sun. And people come, quote, running in there or, you know, barely moving in there. And they look like they're on death's door. And then somehow they leave most of them and do another 48 miles.

It's absolutely insane. saying. So I was there. Heather, unfortunately, did not have a great race and we were still kind of emotionally working through that. But this is not the place to be that would make you want to do this event, at least for me. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've seen last year and this year, somebody like pushing their runner, you know, the crew members like pushing their runner out saying, like, you got this, it's fine. The person is like in tears, sobbing, leaving the aid station. So it's a little fresh. It did make me want to race. It got me very fired up to race, but that particular race, wow, that's this whole special beast.

How much of it do you think is the heat component that is destroying people like that? A lot. Yeah, I think a lot. You know, if this was cold or just, or raining or even just not over 100 degrees, I think I'd be pretty excited about it, but it does have a bit of that, like Paula said, Kona thing where it's like you versus the elements, the elements being the heat and who can manage that and pace and, you know, get the topical cooling and the ice and all the things just right. So crazy. It's a nuts thing.

Yeah, it's almost something that I think is a bit dangerous and harmful to your body potentially. I said to Eric after, like, I don't necessarily think this is something to aspire to for the normal person. It's so crazy. And watching how many gels they're eating and the heat they're going through, like even just standing there is so uncomfortable because of the heat. So it's pretty wild people that get to the finish line, let alone race it and finish in a really fast time. And the top finishers on the men and the women's side are really racing. Like you see them running through the aid stations and they're running well, like as if they're doing a race, which is so mind-blowing considering it's 17 plus hours. And they're blowing up like they're doing a race big

time. That's crazy. So Caleb Olson, who won, did it in 14 hours, 11 minutes, 25 seconds, which was the second fastest time that it's ever been done. Yeah. That's so fast. Which is crazy on a hot year like this. I think Jim Womsley maybe when he when he had the fastest time ever, I don't know what the temperature was. I think it's always hot. So yeah, a really impressive race to have something that's even close to the fastest time ever. And the women's winter ran it in 16 something. The women's winner ran it in 1637. Abby Hall. Yeah.

American athlete. Super cool. She lives in Flagstaff. I think that's what you got to do. You got to live at altitude in the train in the heat to do well at this. And unfortunately, Heather, who we went to crew, I don't know if she's publicly said what exactly happened to her, but she didn't finish, which is just kind of like heartbreaking for everybody involved because there's a crew of like 10 to 12 people that come down to

support her and so many logistics that go into it. And obviously a lot of work. that goes into training for this. So really sad for not just her, but everybody. And I think the hardest part about it is you feel like when you're in this moment of questioning if you can continue or not, you feel the weight of those 12 people and feel guilt that they're there for you. So it's a really challenging position I would imagine to be in because you're like, oh, my gosh,

all these people traveled here. I'm going to disappoint them. And that's obviously what Heather was thinking as she was like, do I keep going or not. But you have to like let go of that because obviously her health is the prior. and she has other races to do. Yeah, and this was not like she just had a hard time and decided to stop. This was a, you know, if she had continued, could be a season ending or worse injury. And I'm sure she'll come out with it.

So, you know, I hugged her within like two minutes of her officially getting the wristband cut off and quitting the race. And that's all she could say was, I'm so sorry, you know, and like just to stop. Like, we all wanted to be here. This is such a cool thing to see and be a part of and you were trying to do something big. and we don't, I mean, we would have been psyched if you finished and got on the podium and et cetera, but we're not, nobody's disappointed. The coolest thing for me, the highlight of the weekend was seeing Killian Jornay, iconic trail runner. He won this race over 10 years ago in a time that was an hour and 15 minutes slower than

what he ran to come third. Oh, wow. So it just shows how much trail running has progressed and become more competitive across the board, nutrition, everything's gotten better. And the fact that he can still be competitive and, push boundaries and improve himself as an older athlete is just so inspiring to me. And another cool thing that happened was the day after the race, we were doing a trail run outside of Truckee.

And Eric and I, we just found this trail that ran alongside the highway that goes from Reno to Truckee. It was actually a decent trail for being where it was. And coming up to these cyclists, and I look at the guy in front, I'm like, that looks like Lachlan Martin. Sure enough, it was. and he was with this buddy of his,

no, he was in a group of six people. And I immediately started like fan-girling and asked if I could get a selfie. And then the guy that he, one of the guys he was riding with recognized Eric and I and started like, you know, glorifying us. Like we are the famous ones. That's a good moment.

And then we kept running and realized he was actually riding with who are the two people, Eric? So at the back of the group, I recognize Gus. his brother who made thereabouts in most of Lachlan's films. He's a filmmaker, right? Yeah, he's fantastic. And then we find out later, like Lachlan reposts a story from Chris Burckhard,

who was apparently also in that group, and I didn't recognize Chris. And I'm, like, a massive Chris Burkhard. Like, equally big fan of Gus and Lachlan and Chris Burkhard, like this freaking creative, insane tripod that was on this ride that we just fully bumped into. We didn't see a single other person in a 90-minute run. That's the coolest thing ever.

That's great. I will say on the creative note, before Paula went into this story, if you want to go check out Killian Jornay's video about getting ready for this Western States on YouTube, very interesting. Because he goes into just kind of comparing a little bit how he used to train when he did the thing 15 years ago,

how he trained for this. And it was, I don't know, it was fascinating for me. Cool. Yeah, what are. A trip. What a trip. It's too bad she didn't get to finish. But somehow she makes these, she turns these crazy events into great stories, or I should say Wadi, I guess, does turn them into great stories. Yeah. Yeah. She was just like fiercely positive person and maybe she was just put it on a face. We don't know. But like you were with her when she did Black Canyon, 100K and was

like throwing up and still somehow seemingly positive. So, she's like is very inspiring from that perspective her ability to like see silver linings and move on the next thing well that's why when you told me she was pretty upset i was like ah she must be in bad shape because she wasn't that upset when she was feeling really bad and when i was pacing her well nick you don't understand the monstrosity of the logistics of this thing it's absolutely insane we had two Airbnb rentals like parents there looking after the dogs four or five crew members, three camera people, like different than the Black Canyons

where it was just a bit less of an investment in an early season race. This really is like Kona, you know, where you put so much into it. So I think that was probably where the... Huge emotional... The more higher emotional release. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry, Heather. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm glad she's alive because that seems like a race that is literally dangerous for your life. I agree, Nick.

I agree. No, I don't think anyone died, but man. Scary. Totally wild. Okay, so we also have some triathlon news. This weekend, Iron Man Frankfurt happened, which was a male pro race, and it was an insanely stacked field.

Did you guys follow this at all? We actually didn't because it was through the middle of the night, wasn't it? Yeah, for us, yeah. Yeah, it's really tough those European races because we wake up and they're done. So, yeah. Just saw the results but didn't follow it live. Also saw a very interesting,

do we know of anything? Is there any sort of resolution on the Magnus Ditlev littering situation? No, I don't. No. Just saw a real about that. Did he get disqualified or no? No, he didn't.

Okay, okay. Yeah, we just saw a little clip of him getting a yellow card, not stopping, and then getting a red card, and it was bad. He got it. Yeah, he got the red card. card rescinded. Okay.

Okay, but do we know yes or no if he threw down a gel outside of the littering zone? I think there's a good chance he did litter outside the littering zone. It's really easy to do that if the littering zone's not long enough and a ref happens to be there and you see it. And it's a major bummer, but we all know that that's the rule. Like you have to just be extremely cautious of that with discarding stuff before that. So I don't know. It's tough, but I do think if you give a little grace for one athlete, you have to for everyone, like, where is the line? In general, I think the littering zones maybe should be like 50 meters longer,

but... I think the question here might be like how quickly this escalated from yellow card to red card. I couldn't tell based on this video of like how long this conversation was, but ultimately I think what happened is he didn't stop when he was access to the yellow card, and then just immediately the guy was like, F you red card, you're disqualified. Yeah. Which was, I mean, you know. That's the reactive, yeah.

The tempers, the tempers go into, get into things. It was a hot day. Everybody's hot. Yeah, it was hot in Frankfurt too. Maybe not as hot. It wasn't as hot as it was at Western States, but it was a hot day. So just Christian Blumen felt one with a 230 run crazy for giving the heat. 230, 59, but still 230, yeah.

230, yeah. And then who was the rest of the podium, Nick? Christian Hoganhog was second. And then Casper. from Norway was third, Casper Stornance, and then Gustav was fourth. I feel like that's worth saying as well.

So Gustav had a really good race, because this was a crazy field. Rudy Von Berg was there, Patrick Lang was there, Magnus was there, so there was a lot of really big, fast people. Yeah, might have been the most competitive Iron Man outside of Kona ever. Yep, yeah.

So really happy to see Gustav back getting some form. Yeah, I just, I'm so impressed with Christian. He's now won every single. pro series race he's done this year. I don't know what he's made of, but he's like Superman. And then something else that happened

that was kind of cool was Nike put on this event. Faith Kipiagong, legendary world record holder in the Mile and the 1500 World Champion, Olympic champion, the best 1,500 meter runner of all time, sponsored by Nike, attempted to go under four minutes

for the mile, which is something that you know, for a long time, men couldn't even do. And now a couple thousand men maybe have done it, but no female has ever done it. She held the previous world record of 407. So a monstrosity of an effort to try to take four, seven seconds over a 1500 off her time. She just, yeah, and she just broke the previous world record, which was like 412. So she already took like five seconds off the previous world record, another seven seconds. Huge, huge ask.

To be positive about it, I think that it was an awesome thing for track and field, an awesome thing for women's sport, an awesome message of go try hard things. Set big goals. Set big goals. Go after things that seem scary and seem impossible. But I think everyone kind of knew that it was a stretch. Like that is so much time to take off of a 1,500 meter time or a mile, regardless of pacing and shoes and everything that she had going for her here that Nike put together for. her. She was ultimately still running a mile, you know, even though maybe her shoes were slightly better and the wind dynamics were better with the pacing. But she was, she went through in a

minute, two minutes, three minutes, and then ultimately ran 406. So the last lap she blew up a bit, which I still think is so impressive. She still lowered her world record. But I think the, I don't know, the hype and the whole thing that they put on when I'm not sure, who thought this was possible. It was a bit much. It does come off as, I totally agree with everything you said about it being good for women's sports and it's still an amazing achievement and it is incredible that she can run that fast.

But it does feel a little bit like Nike squeezing the juice out of this athlete to try to get some marketing thing out of it. That's how I at least perceived it from the outside. It was very, it was like the Oscars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The 45-minute pre-show with the Super. glammed up commentators. It was a bit of a show.

But I didn't hate it. I mean, I really enjoyed it. I loved watching it, of course. We pulled over on the way, on the road, like on the side of the highway to watch it. Yeah. So, yeah, what a show. And they got such cool athletes to run with her. They were like pretty huge athletes.

I mean, yeah, everything about it was super cool, even if it was like a bit of a stretch for it to happen. But the way they were talking about it beforehand and explaining the suit and the shoes and the prep. I thought for a second, maybe she was going to get it. Right, right, right. Because before I started watching the pre-show, I was like, there's absolutely no way. And then they led you to believe that maybe it was possible. And then she misses it by a little bit.

Okay, so I have two questions for you guys. The first thing is, what do you think she thought going into it, that it was possible? Or do you think she was 100% sure it was not? I think when you're an athlete like that, it's like listening to Kip Chowgay. speak. You have to have this deep belief that you can do the impossible. And I think she must have thought she could. I think maybe at one point in time, it's so hard to like just dissociate the Nike effect from this. Did they just say we'll give you $3 million if you try? Or is it just like fully real? And like what did she believe six months ago that maybe it was possible? And then like a week

before she's like, yeah, no, this didn't go quite as well as I had hoped or, you know, it's hard to know. But, man, I, yeah, I just, that is such a huge chunk of time in an event. Like, if she really thought that was possible, then like, I mean, yeah, bravo for, for believing. It was kind of funny listening to her coach to be interviewed beforehand because he's not perfect at speaking English, but he definitely can get messages across. And I think he hinted a little bit about the logistical nightmare of this thing. Like, it was very stressful. And it's not just like going to a competition where you're trying to run. run a world record. It is

organizing this entire circus of things that's going around to like from the footwear to the testing the outfit to getting the pacers to practicing the paceline to where they're going to do it. You know, it's such a big production that there's no way that

that didn't weigh on her a little bit and put a little bit of stress on her and her team that took away from just maybe focusing on the training itself. Yeah, I felt like he was the one guy who went maybe a little bit off script. Right.

He's like, yeah, you weren't supposed to say that. This lead up was not perfect. That was a bit rocky, a bit up and down. Yeah. And everybody else was just like,

does it be right, right, right. Reading between the lines, you could see, okay, maybe this was a little, a little bit of his dress, but very cool. And she's amazing.

Yeah, Bravo for keeping us entertained. Okay, sorry, one more thing. When do you think this record will actually be broken? Can it happen? Because she said at the

And now we know it's possible, which I think you could argue actually either way on that. But do you think it's possible? And if so, when do you think someone will break that record? Our takeaway was kind of like, wow, they put a lot into that. Like that as optimized as it could possibly be. And she went half a second faster than our world record from inside of a race. It felt like we could be, we could be waiting 10 years. 10 years isn't that much time.

At least. You're waiting 50 years. Yeah, I mean, I say 10 is like a generous... Like, what are things that could be improved that have improved of the last 20 years? Track surfaces, footwear, nutrition, are we maxing out some of those things so that they can't actually get exponentially better?

And she's like a once-in-a-generation athlete that has all those resources? I don't know. I think it will happen, but I think it'll take 30 or 50 years. Yeah. I mean, you could just back that up and look at, like, how much time have we taken off in the last 10 years, 20 years, et cetera, and just like try to extrapolate it a little bit. The thing that's, the thing that gives me hope is that when that four-minute mile was broken by the man in, I think, 1952, everyone said it was impossible.

And then he did it. And then I think in the next year, like, a ton of people went under four-minute mile. Yeah. So I don't know if that's, if there's a mental part to it or not. It seems like it's so difficult. But, and now, you know, the men's times are like, it's like 343 is the record. So. 343 is the world mile record? Are you sure that's not the 1500? No, that might be wrong. That might be wrong. 340. Yeah, it could be like 343.13. Record is 343.13. For the mile. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So there you go. In 1952, four minutes, took off 15 seconds and 50 years. Maybe 40 years. Yeah, maybe. If we go on that trajectory.

Maybe. Anyway. Fun to talk about that. Yeah, gets you thinking. You gets you thinking. Let's move on to questions. Actually, you know what? Before that, Paula, I heard you have a little treat for us this week. What? Is that right? It's not a treat. It's actually the opposite of a treat. Yeah, it's swimming.

I've been asked a lot for little swim sets with Paula, so I made up a swim set. Okay. Here we go. It's pretty simple. It's two miles total, 3,200 meters. Or yards. If you're going to be super lazy, you can do it yards. With a warm-up is just 300 swim, 200 pull, 100 kick. And then 8-25s is one build, one fast. And after each 25, take like 15 seconds rest.

So you can really go fast on the fast. And then 100 easy to get ready for the main set. After that warm-up, the main set goes three times through this, you're going to go 425s fast on 30 seconds, so not a ton of rest. And then right after the 425s fast, you're going to go into two times 150 at your race effort. So it kind of simulates going out hard in a race and then settling down into your race effort. And those two 150s, two times 150, you should take about 10 seconds rest after each one. So overall, you're not getting a ton of like rest after each thing.

So your heart rate kind of stays high. But it just is to practice being able to swim hard after doing those 425s fast when your heart rate gets jacked up. Right, right, right. After you're done one round of it, just take 100 easy with some kick and some backstroke and then do it two more times for a total of three times. Okay. So that's 1,200 meters of hard swimming.

Okay. And then you're going to do three, two hundreds with a pole boy and paddles. kind of like a strength cool down. There's a breathing pattern though by 50. You're going to breathe 3, 5, 7, 3 by 50. 7? Yeah, 7's hard. Oh my God. That's really hard.

But what I find, if you can't do it, it's fine. It's just a goal. But I think that when you have a breathing pattern like this, at least for me, it really helps me to calm myself down and be extra smooth in my stroke because you don't want to waste energy and have like high stroke grade and panic. it really helps me calm my neurological system almost and just try to have a really low heart rate. So I don't know, give it a try. It's interesting because the breathing thing to me is like a hypoxic thing.

But the way you're saying it, it's also a technique thing. That's really interesting. She's right. Yeah, it does force you into a little bit of focus. Can concur. Yeah, if you're not relaxed, you won't be able to do it. And when you have a pull-buy, taking fewer breaths is easy. easier than if you're kicking for sure.

That's why I did it with a pull boy. Yeah. Doing seven strokes between brass is really hard when you're swimming because your heart raised just a bit higher. And that's that 200 cool down after that mix of swim and some kick and some backstroke. Not us. Are we doing that tomorrow? No, I just made it up.

Oh. You could. Eric, the world is your oyster. Maybe I'll go to the pool all by myself and do that. Well, thanks Paula. Thanks for that swim sets with Paula. We will put that in the description of the podcast.

podcast so you don't have to transcribe what she said. But you can a little screenshot I bring it to the pool with you and share it with all your friends. Yeah. Okay, let's move on to questions. You can submit your questions to the podcast at Thattriathlonlife.com slash podcast where you can also become a podcast supporter. Podcast supporter is the best way to support this podcast since we are not doing ads, as you can tell. It's the only way that this podcast makes any money. So we really appreciate that. And we like to give back to podcast supporters in a variety. of ways. This week we're actually going to do a supporter segment question.

So we'll read the question on the podcast, but then the answer will only be shared with podcast supporters, and they're actually going to get a video. Because we actually video record all of these podcasts. We just don't use the recordings for anything really as of yet. Don't tell them. They're going to be blowing up our message on the secret files.

Oh, yeah, the secret files. You know, one day, we do have a lot. Like, I forget when we started recording the video, but we have all of this. You've kept them all? Archived, yeah. Uh-huh. Like on your hard drive or something?

No, they're on this software that we use. Oh, wow. That's funny. Yeah, it's all saved. So we will have that for our podcast supporters. It's a question about panic heat training. So we'll get to that when we get to it. Not recommended, by the way, panic heat training.

Actually impossible. Don't give it away. Yeah. But, okay, so the other thing we do is, We're going to pick a supporter winner that's going to win. Let me take a look over here. We do have more swim caps. So we're going to get a swim cap out.

Eric did the honor of picking this winner. Eric, who's our lucky, lucky podcast supporter this week? Ian Norman. Ian Norman. Congratulations. And more importantly, thank you for being a podcast supporter. You can reach out to me and provide me with the address that you'd like this very premium swim cap ship to.

We still have some on the website. Is that right, Eric? Yep, these are straight out of inventory on the website. I think we still have a couple of those TTL technical hoodies and short sleeves as well, but they have been going fast. And then tomorrow I'm going to pick up the new launch of stuff. I don't think we'll be giving any of that away, but you never know. You never know.

Be a comment podcast supporting. You just need. Very nice. Okay, first question here is from Pete. Hey, TTL. there was some preamble here that I'm going to leave out. I get funny looks from my neighbor as I sprint out of my garage in bib shorts, and it got me wondering, am I normal?

How often do you do brick runs? Are they an essential part of triathlon training? And how do you structure them, i.e. are they easy runs, hard runs straight off the bike, or more of a traditional run workout like 5x1K fart lick? Interested to hear your thoughts, love the pod. Thanks for all your insights, Pete. It's funny because I feel like the brick run is like the quick run is like the quintessential triathlon workout.

But do you guys think it's actually important for an athlete to do them? I would say it's the stereotypical triathlon workout. But yeah, we do them. And I think the type of run you do is a little bit dependent on the time of the season and the style of coaching and maybe if you're doing an Iron Man versus a sprint and so on. I would say, though, you can probably switch into running shorts before sprinting out of your garage and it won't impact the workout that much. If you just want to like, you know, be a little bit cooler to the neighbors.

Right. Yeah, I don't do bricks in my bike shorts. For sure, switch to running shorts. It only takes five seconds. If you're trying to minimize laundry, I guess that's one thing. And if you're completely not bothered by the shammy, I guess it's fine. But who cares what your neighbors think? This is just a comfort thing.

Also, you're flexing on your neighbors. You're like, yeah, I do triathlon. You know, it's kind of a win-win. You don't need to do that. that though. The last, the only time I used to do running in my bike shorts was when I was racing ITU and we would do bike run, bike run, bike run, like short short things several times around with rest in between. I love doing that. I think it was extremely beneficial for ITU racing because off the bike immediately you're running so fast. And if you're not used to that feeling of

running after a hard effort on the bike, it's really uncomfortable and foreign and kind of scary to go that fast. So I'd say it's less important in 70.3. It's good to be familiar with it, but not totally essential. Yeah, I'd say it's not a bad idea to have that stimulus of running a bit tired every once in a while. And you can kind of like, you know, get one big session in. Like, your coach will probably ride it in. But yeah, I don't know. What it would we like this past weekend, Paula had a four hour ride and a 90 minute run. I think we had like 20 minutes of just drive time to get to a trail in between there, could cut that down to zero minutes. That's really unusual though.

I think most of the time when we do runs off the bike, they're relatively short. It's like get the feeling for it, get up to race pace, and then you're done for a total of 5 or 6K. And we usually do it sort of closer to a race so that we can like practice your race shoes and practice that feeling of transitioning. It's also, I'd say less important later in the season. If you've raced a lot already, you kind of know what it's like. Yeah.

But one thing I do like about running off the bike is, I often do feel better. If you're warmed up from the ride, running off the bike, I feel good. And I think, like, you can condense the workout into a shorter period of time. After you're done, you're done. You're not, like, biking, sitting around, eating, do I eat, do I not eat, getting tired, and then having to drag your ass out the door to run later. Sometimes it's just, like, an efficiency thing to run immediately.

Yeah, you just got to be really diligent with the nutrition. so they don't get halfway through the run and have an extreme blow-up or something. Can you guys give me a range of how long they normally are without the outliers, the 90-minute outliers of short to long? I just had like 4K hard, 1K cool down.

Yeah, that's pretty typical. Just to the point of where you have gotten past that shitty feeling and you start to feel like you're into race pace as, you know, quote, comfortably as you could be, then you're good. Yeah. That's usually what we've done. But we don't do Iron Man.

So TBD on that. My Iron Man training so far has been identical to what you just said. I did a three-hour ride yesterday and then 15 minutes hard off the bike and then into 20 minutes easy. It was very similar to what you said. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. And just change into shorts.

Speaking of things like this, I mean, this is a great use case for try shorts, by the way, Pete. But speaking of things like this, did we hear back from the person who did like the 5X super sprint? So yes, he did respond, and this is what he said. His name is Wilson. Hey, Pod, I don't really have a question, but a follow-up and personal thank you. I sent in, and you discussed my question about the 5x Supertry. First off, thanks for spending the time on the question and providing your usual sage advice and delightful banter. It meant a lot to me.

The race was today, the VA Supertry, and I finished first in my age group, 55-59. Go. Hello. We will claim some partial responsibility for that. You can send us the prize money. I decided to do the whole thing with my socks on. Swim included. No.

I did bring three pairs of shoes per Paula, but I stuck with one pair. The run just wasn't long enough to matter. Eric's advice about tucking the swim cap goggles into my kit was spot on. Really appreciated all of your advice on pacing. I tried to slow my runs down towards the end, but I don't think it's in my nature. I did purposefully, after the second try, take a moment to catch my breath. literally three to five deep breaths was enough to get a little reset. Thank you again, and I wish you all the best in your racing and other pursuits.

You are indeed a pleasure to hear on my commute. Wilson, swimming with the socks, I mean, I don't even know. That is just crazy. Is that better for blisters than no socks and the, man. How about how long was the swim again for each thing? I think it was like 150 or something really short. Yeah. I mean, I think real swim.

Sometimes wear swimmers, wear socks in the pool for drag for a drill. Yeah. It's so slow. I mean, if these are like real tight, cycling socks maybe. Yeah.

Wow, that's crazy. I'm just imagining like floppy all over the place as you're running out of the water. Yeah. Well, congratulations on winning.

Next year, try no socks and maybe you'll forget first overall. It was good to be part of the victory. I was going to ask you guys, have you guys ever do swim to bike bricks? I still don't really know anyone that tries. Like in 2004. Yeah, I used to do it when we raced ITU

for the same reason of like, you're going max effort to max effort. I would say that actually feels significantly worse than the bike to run. Right. And it's logistically so annoying. You're like putting a trainer on the deck and it's very annoying.

Yeah, cool. It's fun though. Next question is from Imogen. Good day, guys. Sorry, that's, is that offensive? I think Australian is not offensive. Fairly new to the podcast, but have been binging hard

during late night baby feeds. I'm almost six months post pardon, and I'm doing an all-women's triathlon in November. I've signed up for the ultra, which is almost the same as a sprint distance with the hopes of doing a 70.3 in my home state in Western Australia next year. My question is gear-related. I got a bike secondhand for 250 buckaroos, a trisuit second-hand for $30, clip and shoes for $20. All seems to fit and feel good so far. All decent brands just pre-loved. This is inspirational. This is inspirational start into the sport. I mean, this is akin to Eric's duct-taped shoes. My first bike for an

triathlon was $15, but, you know, $200. Like, that's basically the same. Adjusting for inflation. Yeah, exactly. I know that gear will be fine for the short distance, but is it worth signing up for a half-iron man on a cheap bike, or is it just a bad plan? I know you get what you pay for, but in my case, on maternity leave, I get what I could afford. Should I wait for a half-iron man until I can get a better bike, my goal will just be to finish, not aiming for any podium spots. Thanks, everyone love the pod, Imogen. I think this is an easy answer, but what do you guys think? Easy. Heck yeah, do the half iron man. If you just want to finish, you could ride a tricycle. As long as it's safe. Yeah, I always say, the longer you're out there on the course, you're just getting more minutes per dollar.

More bang for your buck. Yeah, you just like get more Morton gels. You just like really soak up those aid stations. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, feel free to go, go home. hard and buy the cool stuff, we support that too. But if you got the gear, do it. I feel like I saw somebody, I want to say it was like 70.3 Victoria or something, do it on a cruiser bike, like a single speed, you know. That's brutal. It's totally possible that the cutoff time if you're like generally fit, like the bike is not make or break. I forget where I was, but it was early on and before I did my first 70.3, it was an Olympic distance race. And someone's bike was stolen. And so they.

still shut up to the race and did it with one of those like city bike rental bikes, the ones that go into the docks, they're like 60 pounds. How much did that cost? Are those like by the mile or the minute? It's by the minute. Yeah, it's by the minute. Oh gosh. Well, there's your inspiration to go faster. Ex inspiration. Yeah, extra inspiration. Exactly. I was thinking it's really nice to do a race on a bike like that and then potentially get a nice bike and appreciate it so much more. It feels good. In like a year or if you really enjoyed it. And then the difference between a $250 road bike and a couple thousand dollar time trial bike is going to be like, it's going to feel so amazing.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Also, every person that you pass that's on a nicer bike than you, like you own them completely and entirely. That feels good. Yeah. Cool. Okay.

Next question here is from Lenny, from Baston. Dear TTL, since I started to listen to your podcast in 2022, I've realized that there are many controversial and unintuitive aspects of the sport, especially when it comes. comes to cycling? Are there any particular aspects of cycling that you think most or many amateur triathletes get wrong, either due to them being unintuitive or because cycling has evolved and some of the old truths no longer holds true? For example, it seems to be major point of contention amongst my friends whether an older TT bike, think 2011 serve LOP3 would be faster or slower over the course of a 70.3 than a modern road bike, think a specialized ethos, with

arrowbars. People also seem to have vastly differing opinions on how much going up from a 28 millimeter to 30 or 32 millimeter tire impacts rolling resistance and more generally whether running larger tires is actually better or worse for triathlon. I'd be especially interested to hear if there are any technical aspects of the sport, whether in the swim bike or run, that you yourself once held a misconception about. Cheers. Lenny from Boston. As I think all these, you know, the wider tires and things that are coming out are scientifically tested. So it's kind of hard to, like, argue that a 25-millimeter tire is faster than a 28-millimeter tire now with the current technologies.

But there's still people pumping up their tires to 100 PSI races. I still see it, you know? So there are these prevailing mistakes. I think it's like the rate at which things are evolving is so quick that it wasn't that long ago, even in our racing careers, that we were riding 25-millimeter your tire is pumped to 120. So it's... I guess I just feel like it's similar to the human improvement in the sport.

Like we have a greater ability to test things now. I don't know if 10, 15 years ago we had the ability to really accurately test the rolling resistance of a tire and compare that to the aerodynamic penalty of a fatter tire. And like we didn't have the carbon technology to make hookless rims like we do now. And we were still using brake tracks that were aluminum. because like the very first carbon clincher wheels, like the brake tracks would melt because they just hadn't gotten the resin right just yet.

So things are evolving. I don't think that you can make a blanket statement about like, oh, wider tires are always faster. If you have rims that were designed around 23s, 23s are probably going to be faster on those. If you have ones wheels that were designed around 25s, 26s, 28s, like I would call the manufacturer,

read the manufacturer specifications, and trust them. I don't. But I think he was just giving that as an example. He was asking if there's any other things now that. Yeah, I guess where I was going with that is that, yeah, we thought really skinny tires were fast 10 years ago, but now science has told us that that's not correct. So is that a myth or is that just the prevailing idea at the time?

Yeah, that's a good question. I've been wondering the same thing. It's like, how did we just now? It feels like in the past few years. years get around to this wider tire thing. Yeah. On the TT bike thing, I really still feel like a good TT position, you know, assuming that you're able to get into a slightly better TT position on a TT bike

and you don't have a flexibility issue that's like preventing you from being in a better position than on your road bike, the TT bike's going to be better. This actually... 100%. What you just said makes me think of, I think, a good common misconception, which is that lower is better in a TT position. Even from a purely aerodynamics perspective, we're finding out that some people are not faster, lower,

like a little bit higher can somehow... Aerodynamics are crazy and not so intuitive sometimes. I would say that we're now in the process of being really good at assessing the inflection point of lower being slightly faster, but there being a power loss and a metabolic efficiency loss. Right, right. where we're able to find a sweet spot similar to the arrow versus rolling resistance of the tire.

Right, I see, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, a TT bike geometry gets you a little bit steeper and theoretically sits you in a better position for producing power in a more bent over position than a road bike. Yeah, Paula, can you think of anything that maybe has changed in your perception of things over time or something that age groupers maybe you think don't get right? I think just nutrition is a simple one. It's pretty widespread knowledge now that the more you can eat, the more your stomach can handle, the better you're going to perform.

Ten years ago, that was not the case. People weren't slamming carbs. That's the first thing I thought of, too, is even like fasted workouts. I feel like we used to be much more popular. Yeah. Like getting much more efficient at using fat as a fuel or whatever versus just giving your body all. the carbs it needs to perform. That's a tough one. But I also, it's so not healthy to eat the amount of carbs that is suggested per hour. It's so bad for your body. And yeah, that's why you're like

people are throwing up in a race course. Yeah, there is like a tipping point of you have to train it, but then if you're eating that literally every day, training your gut, it's just not good for you. But are we doing this because it's good for us? No, not really. Yeah. I think, yeah, obviously plenty of people may start it thinking it's a health thing, but then if you're racing for the win and age group or, you know, world championships, that's pushing the line of what's healthy. Oh, yeah.

Do a lot. I was cleaning out Heather's vest after the first aid station, which was five hours into the event. And I was getting it ready for the third. I was like swapping vests, basically. And I pulled out like 12 gels from her vest. Like used gels. Yeah, yeah.

She took them all. She was feeling really well. And the sad thing is before this incident happened, she was feeling amazing. So she really is able to get the nutrition in. That was inspiring to see. I'm like, while you're running, you took 12 gels in five hours or however much it was, plus your flasks. I don't know if that would have been the case 10 years ago, eating that much. Right, right, right.

Maybe that's why Killian was an hour slower 10 years ago when he won. I don't know. That's just an example of what has evolved. over time in all these sports it's like people are eating more and then they go faster yeah it's amazing and the products are better using different types of sugar it's not just goose it's like right the composition of the gels is they figured out that glucose and fructose there is a ratio that you can absorb a maximum amount and they just didn't know that or at least it wasn't widespread 10 years ago yeah yeah cool okay this next question here is from Trevor and this is the aforementioned

segment question. So we're going to read the question live and then we're going to answer it only for podcast supporters. So if you're a podcast supporter, you are going to get it. If you're not, you should become a podcast supporter. Here it is from Trevor. Hi, TTR. I'm flying in from Australia next week to compete in the Musel Man 70.3. I feel fitter than I have for any other 70.3 I have done, but I didn't take into account the humidity, which is an Achilles heel for me. Oh boy. All my training has been done in cold weather and I'll be dropped into the hot condition. with a week to acclimate acclimatize? Yeah, that's what they say down there.

Any recommendations on how to deal with conditions would be greatly appreciated, Trevor. Okay, Trevor, here you go. Okay, we did it. We answered Trevor's question. Now Trevor's going to be winning this race overall. We're certain of it. That really was our best work.

Sorry, everyone. Next question here is from Adam. What's up, TTR? Is tour biking something any of you have ever done or have thought about doing, riding long distance for several days carrying your own gear. If so, where in the world would you bike? Thanks for all you do. TTR keeps me motivated, keep racing.

Adam, this is something I have not done, but I am so interested in doing. Eric, have you done this? I haven't done it, but I think about it minimum every other day. We talked about it yesterday while we were driving after we saw Walkland and crew. Yeah. Because they do it all the time. Yeah. I fantasize about riding from here to the Oregon coast, which you go over two different mountain ranges and you could do a lot of gravel on route.

As we were driving home, we went past this thing called the Oregon Outback, which is a gravel route that goes from the southern side of Oregon to the north, mostly on gravel. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of things. And it's just like carving out time and figuring out how to do it. But I think you just got to jump off the deep end with that kind of thing. Do your diverges have enough mounting points to make this possible? Oh, yeah. Okay. You're kind of made for that, right?

Yeah, the setup that I had in Patagonia would completely work. And I'm personally not interested in the, like, carrying your tent and, like, your jet boil and, like, that type of, I would, like, try to work out a path that, you know, stop at crappy hotels or maybe not crappy hotels to avoid having such a way down bike that it, like, seriously. detracted from the writing experience. But that's just me, having not done it. I see. I want to bring the tent and the jet boil. I want to camp in the woods with it. So we could compare and contrast our experiences when we do it.

I will say I have absolutely no interest in this activity. I'm not so surprised. Yep. That's fine. This is a thing that in my fantasies I'm doing by myself. So that's fine. Flynn's not there. Right, right.

You're with Lachland. Yeah, me and Lachlan and Chris Bricard are out there just talking about cool freaking stuff. Taking photos. Yeah, nice. I just like being hot, going slow for all day with heavy bikes, I don't understand the appeal. Sign me up. Sign me up. Like in my mind, it's a thing that allows you to go some places that a car wouldn't be able to go. The idea of like riding on a road where you could drive your car.

not as appealing. Yeah, definitely agreed. Yeah. Okay. Next question here is from James. Do you use elastic laces during training or only during racing? I was looking at switching to elastic, but then I read an article that says training in elastic laces can be bad for your foot small muscles, so you should only use them

on race days and the sporadic training day. James. What do you think? Yeah, I put this in there because I do think it's kind of accurate. Like elastic laces are sometimes so tight that they hurt the top of my feet. They hurt the top of my feet too. Yeah. So you really have less control over making the laces perfectly, you know, tight for your feet.

And sometimes the only time I'll use elastic laces in training is if I'm using an old pair of race shoes for a brick run or for a hard run session. They're not quite good enough to race in still because I've done so many races in them. but they're still fine for training and they just have elastic laces in them. Yeah. But I would never put elastic laces in like my everyday running shoe because I kind of like the act of like tying your shoes. Yeah, it's just better.

It's better all around. It feels better. But I would say though that when you put elastic laces in your race shoe, you should practice a few runs with them if it's just like 4K brick to make sure you get the tightness as close as you can to comfortable. Yep. Yeah, smart.

Cool. That was an easy one. Next one here is from Matt. Hi, TTL crew, I have a question in regards to disc wheels. I'm a firm believer in using the disc in almost all wind and weather conditions. I recently snagged a qualification spot for 70.3 worlds in Marbea. Congratulations, Matt. Nice.

The bike course isn't posted, but from what I can see, there's a lot of elevation compared to what I ride in Canada and the United States. Being far away from home, Lorette M.B. What's M.B., Paula? Manitoba. Is that an M-B? Manitoba, yeah. I can only bring one wheel.

Is there a range of elevation gain you might start to consider running a deep section wheel? Stock is 80 millimeters over a disc. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Keep crushing the podcast and good luck with the rest of your race seasons, Matt. I feel like I know what you guys are going to say, but what do you think? Oh, is the disc? Yeah, I think we've answered this in the past.

Yeah. Yeah, they're freaking fast. And the one time that I've not used a disc was when I won Alcatraz the second time. And they had just come out with a prototype 858 that was hookless. And they did not have a hookless disk yet. That's the only reason that I've raced. Oh, is that the most recent time you won? Yep.

That's the only time I've raced with not a disc. The disc is not that much heavier than the 858, right? It's not significantly heavier. It is heavier than a four-fifference. 5-4, but it's, or, you know, or a 40-millimeter deep wheel is what we're saying. 858 is an 80-millimeter deep wheel. But it's so much more, it's so much faster aerodynamically. It's totally worth it.

Yeah, cool. Unless you're like literally doing the Alpdawez triathlon where it's 100% uphill and your maximum speed is like 14K an hour, then go for the, go like 30-millimeter deep ultra-light wheels for that. Right, right, right. Cool. Yeah, Matt. Run that disc. It's blingy. It looks cool. Feels cool. Sounds cool. Okay, and last question here is from Nick. What do you all do for sunscreen in races?

I raced Ironman Rockford 70.3 last Sunday. I put sunscreen and lotion on before the swim and reapplied spray and both transitioned, but still came out with a mild burn. Wow, that is, that's surprising. Including on my back and through my kit. Whoa. That is, there was a group chat. I'm in a cycling group chat where someone posted a picture of them with, they thought their jersey would protect them. And just like bad burn with just the cross of the bibs. Oh, no. Through the jersey.

Is this just like a low quality jersey? I don't know. I just, I've never been burned through any article of clothing of any kind. So I didn't know that this could even happen. Yeah, I usually wear a lightweight white. white long sleeve, even if it's really hot to protect my skin. But maybe they need to be like UV rated or SBF rated or something. I've seen this and I'm like, really, do we need this?

Like any clothing is good enough. Yeah, that's not. That sounds like saying that, you know, gummy bears are meat free. Right. This is just the way it should be. Vegetarian, yeah. Why do we need to say that the jacket protects you from the sun? It's just, yeah.

So this is great. That's crazy. Sorry about that. He said in past races, I didn't reapply, but this was both non-wetsuit and very hot and very sunny. Does it stay on better under the wetsuit? Burned through the kit was a surprise to me too. Yeah, through all of us, thanks. Yeah, it's funny because in St. George, my most recent 70.3, I put it on in T2 because they had a sunscreen station there.

Yeah, I think that's the best way, to be honest. Even if you're trying to go fast, it is the best way because it's going to come off in the and the wetsuit rubbing and the bike and the sweat. It's like five hours later potentially since you applied it. It really is the best way. He did put it on in both transitions, though, is what he said. That's what's surprising. I think if you're worried about the speed,

you could get one of the spray sunscreens and put in a transition and do it really quick. Yeah, hopefully don't, you know, like not into your neighbor's face. But that's what I was thinking, too. He did. That's what he did. He applied the spray sunscreen both in T1 and T2 and ST2. Okay, well, I think we need a refund on the jersey and we need a refund on this sunscreen

call out this sunscreen brand immediately. Is sunscreen less effective if you're applying it while you're sweaty? I would assume. So maybe it's just like he's putting it on and it's kind of rolling off. I mean, the fact that you did put it on this much and still got burned, I imagine this person

is also very, very susceptible to sunburns. Man. Yeah, I'm always cautious of sun and stuff but as I get older, I'm even more cautious of, like, covering myself up and putting sunscreen on every square inch of sun-exposed things when I'm out training. And I'm actually been getting, like, a heat rash on my arms if I ride in the sun for too long. So, I think I need to get some, like, white arm warmers or something to cover my arms when I raise. Yeah, I've been asking Kestelli about this, actually, if they could do, like, a long-sleeve jersey

in their lightest weight material for, like, just for heat protection. I actually think a long sleeve thing. Like some people at Western States were even using a long sleeve white. Because when it's wet, it still has this cooling effect. Yeah. Water can sit at there better than on your skin. Yeah, it might be even more cooling than a T-shirt. So I also have this on hat that Eric thinks looks kind of ridiculous,

but it has like a tail on it so it covers your neck. Yeah, I know those. Oh, you got to do whatever you got to do. But it's like a specific running one, so it's quite comfortable. the guy that came forth at Western States as an on-athlet he was wearing it. Yeah. So just coverage is better than sunscreen. Sunscreen spray and transition.

I don't know. To a certain point, you're just going to get sunburned. I would definitely look at arm coolers. I remember even when I worked in the triathlon shop back in 2009, we had arm coolers that were like an arm-wormer, but white and were designed to be like cooler or at least not any increase in heat and protective. So maybe a Google search for that. What do you guys think about just be faster so you're on the course less long? I mean, that always helps.

It doesn't hurt. I wasn't going to say it, but that is the reason that I'm not that worried about it. Because by the time we're done, the heat of the day, the sun's not quite at its highest. I wish you were that easy. Not in New Zealand. You get a sunburn in the middle of the night. Yeah, that was brutal. Okay, that's it, guys.

Those are the questions. That's a long one. A podcast supporter segment. We just all. Questions. That was a good one. We solved all the world's problems on this podcast, it feels like. Yeah.

Just another week. Just another day in the life, guys, on TTO Pod. Wow. What an experience. I did like doing it. Last week, we did it in the morning on Tuesday. I didn't like that. Oh, I did like that, but you know what?

Because I had an impending ride. Oh, right. I see. That I felt absolute shit for. I think I had too much. too much coffee beforehand and I talked like a runaway train. We did get feedback actually, yeah.

Yeah, there's a perfect blend of like tiredness after bed but happy from dinner. And the only thing we're fighting against right now is upstairs in our house without air conditioning is not as hot as Western States, but it's up there. Yeah, I'm so hot right now. I need to get out of this room.

Nice. Okay, well, you guys go enjoy your night, the rest of it, open the windows, have a nice cool beverage. We will. You too, dude. Wait, Nick, so will you be here for the next week's podcast? No. The next after that.

Oh, no, yeah. It would be the next after that. Okay. Yeah. We're going to do a live recording podcast all together. Maybe we should do an episode where we call people. Yeah, let's do that. That's fun. Please.

It's my favorite. Let's definitely do that. It's not an anniversary pod, but it's like, it's kind of fun. It's going to be 175. That's like a nice round number. 176. Because this is 174. But we can

Paul, are you holding up fingers? I'm trying to get the thing to do balloons, but Riverside doesn't do that. On Riverside, it doesn't do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lame. Okay, well, we'll talk, as Eric likes to say, we'll talk at you next week.

And please send in questions. Yes, questions. Thanks, everyone. Later, everybody. Bye. Bye.