That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon nightmares, going 100% in a race vs. racing smart, the most polished pros on the circuit, and more!

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

We're loopy, and apparently incapable of saying basic words out loud, which means it's a great episode. We kick things off with a new This or That segment that goes off the rails almost immediately, then get into ten listener questions that end up going somewhere unexpected. Big week energy after the last two, different energy this week. This week we discussed:This or That: firm surface with cushy shoe vs. cushy surface with firm shoe, foggy goggles vs. foggy conditions, and a third option Nick almost said on a family podcastDo pros ever truly go 100%? The difference between not pushing hard and deliberately leaving something for future races, and why Paula once backed off to help a rival keep pointsWho are the most polished, professional pros on the circuit, and who gets results while doing their own thing? (Morgan Pearson, Ari Klau, and Jackie Hering all come up)What Paula actually did in the five hours between finishing Ironman Lake Placid and heading to dinner, and why she did almost none of the "right" recovery thingsGrandpa Hector's Colnago: how to keep a vintage bike in storage without letting it deteriorateDo pros want splits from strangers on course? When it helps, when it doesn't, and why they'll never acknowledge you even if they love itTraining through heartbreak: Paula's honest answer, Eric's RV-in-the-desert approach, and Nick's experience of it being the hardest time of his lifeThe Canadian Prime Minister shouted out Paula on Ironman Lake Placid, the story behind how that might have happenedTriathlon nightmares: missing the start, cascading gear failures, and why the dream is always the logistics, never the actual sufferingPassing etiquette in races: when to say "on your left," when not to, and AirPods on a single track trail (Eric has feelings)Coaching high school swimming when you're a triathlete, and the unexpected parallels between inspiring athletes and inspiring music studentsWhy Nick fell in love with triathlon: the objectivity of it, the contrast with musicA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive. This week's random supporter winner is Joyce Leary! Joyce, your Thump instant coffee is on the way! To submit a question and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstown. I'm Paul Findlay. I'm Nick Golson, and somehow we still haven't completely figured this out, 229 episodes in. It's been a long day. If you're new here, this is our triathlon podcast. Paul and I are both professional athletes.

Nick is a professional musician, amateur triathlete lover of the sport. As are we all. And we talk about triathlon. and what's going on in the triathlon world on this podcast. Are we at a loss for words? Usually you then bridge this gap. There's no usually. Sometimes you do.

I just thought twinkle in your eye and I thought you were going to say something. We have got a killer show for you today. The goal is to keep it, quote, tight, a little bit shorter. We'll see how we do. Best of luck to the three of us. Historically, we fail at that. Well, we just talked for 30 minutes about things that are definitely TTL after dark. Yeah, definitely.

So we couldn't have even pressed record before that. Yeah, we did a little pre-pod after dark. I was out of cell service and let me tell you, I know I sound like an old man, it was really nice to be out of cell service

for three days. Yeah, it's the best. I never really felt that way. I was like, I could always put the phone down, but when you're forced, it doesn't even work if you pull out of your pocket. It's kind of nice.

I feel like it takes me like a few hours, like half a day to fully just stop even checking it and just completely relax and unwind. Yeah, I feel like it took me an entire day. Yeah.

Then it feels so good. And then you get back and realize you missed nothing and it is such a waste of our time to be on it. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, never have I gotten back and be like, oh shit, everything's changed. And also, if you're good friends

and know you're out of service, they just don't message you. So it's not like you even have to catch up on things. No, I still build a pile of things for Nick to look at when he gets back. Oh, you do? Yeah, I loved it. I love it.

The memes, you know, you got to get into the memes. This is a little segment that we have, that we haven't done in a long time, and it's called This or That. So I hope you guys find these entertaining. Did you make them up? I made these up myself, yes. Really?

Yes, I made these up myself. This is why we pay them the big bucks. That's right. Running on a firm surface with, Okay, let me try that again. Firm surface? Did Chad GBT make this up? There's a play on words involved here.

Okay, let me get to it. Running on a firm surface. Running on a extremely impatient tonight. Beware. Just you wait. I feel like these are clever. Running on a firm surface with a cushy shoe or a cushy surface with a firm shoe. By the way, that's a real tongue twister.

Try to say it at home if you're listening. I would rather run on a cushy surface. See? See? I told you. Excuse you. With a firm shoe, I guess. What about you, Eric?

100% cushy surface. Oh, wow. You can't do it fast. It's hard. I'm telling you. Okay, okay. Next one here.

A dirty cl- Okay, V-on is how... No, sorry. Let me try that again. A dirty kit and clean bike or a dirty bike and clean kit. I think you can all guess what Nick accidentally.

it's definitely getting bleeped. Oh my God. Clean kit, dirty bike. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That looks good. Dirty kit? Who would ever pick that? The thing is like you can wash a dirty kit.

Cleaning a dirty bike, it's much more of an effort. You know? But you're heading out on a ride in this state. Yeah. Putting a dirty kit on your body. I guess like I didn't really think this true. But I was thinking more like on the ride, it gets like your kit gets all dirty or on the ride your bike gets. It's all dirty.

Which is impossible, right? Usually both get dirty. That's not where my head went. It's not where my head went either. I thought this was like as you're setting out on a ride. You have to choose. Yeah. Yeah, I see.

You're getting ready to go. What would you rather? Right, right. Okay, no. Okay, next one. Let's try this one. Foggy goggles but clear conditions or clear goggles but foggy conditions. Clear goggles, foggy conditions.

Yep, same. Foggy goggles. be my top three things I hate about triathlon. And it's fixable with baby shampoo. I think this is a T-shirt. Clear goggles, foggy conditions

every time. Yeah. All the words. It's just because the foggy conditions are kind of a vibe. Remember when we were swimming out in Lake Placid and it was just raining and so cool? Yeah.

No, everybody can't see. It's not just you. Okay, last one here. In a race, would you rather run out of food but be hungry for the food, or have food available to eat, but you're having GI issues,

so you can't eat it. I pick neither. I don't think that's how this game works. I guess I pick number two, having the food and having GI issues. We're all really struggling to speak. Are these all tongue twisters? No, this one wasn't supposed to be.

The theme is we suck at speaking English. Yeah. And GI issues and have the food because you never know. Your GI issues could go away. They can't make food appear out of nowhere. Well, that went a certain way. I don't think I was expecting us to have such trouble with all these words, but we did it. My favorite one yet.

Yeah, Nick, you really thought about those. You know what's funny? You know that our first this or that was actually different than this. It wasn't picking one thing or the other. It's I presented a word and you had to get, I think the original one was it, is it like a Swedish method? metal band or the name of a shoe. Right.

Because they like could kind of work for both. It was like the AXXXX metal too. I do remember that segment. Yeah. Yeah. But it's too complicated to do that. So this is what it is now. We just pick one or the other.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So let's get to questions here. You can submit your questions to the podcast at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. Messaging us directly does not help your chances of the question getting onto the pod. Okay?

So you can submit it. We might screenshot it and share with each other though if it's absolutely ridiculous and unhinged. Did you guys notice that this is the first time this has ever happened to me. This might happen to you guys more often. But someone Instagram messaged, you Nick, you Eric, me, and he was just a random guy. So he sends us this message of like a post of a house and bend. And I assume it's one of YouTube messaging me. So I think we're on our group chat.

So I reply to it, like saying all this stuff. And then this random guy chimes in. And I'm like, wait a second. Isn't this Eric and Nick's group chat with me? Who are you? And then immediately I leave the group. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that.

I did not see this. This happens to me all the time with you guys and Talbot and Kyle. You guys will say something and I'll start going off on some rant that probably shouldn't be heard by anyone but the three of us. And then Eric will be like, dude, you're in the chat with Talbot and Kyle. Okay, that's less bad. Oops. But starting group texts with the three of us and then I'm not noticing that there's another person in it?

Just don't. It happens a lot. That is dangerous. Yeah, it happens a lot. Now you're, I feel like you're asking for it. Now people are going to do it. People don't do it. It's not funny.

It's a little funny. I don't know, you might take this out, Nick, but. if I don't recognize if like you are not I don't answer those group chats yeah I know I don't know you and Nick and I haven't had dinner with you together when I'm having a group chat

yeah I'm gonna go a step further here and I know I used to say that I would respond to every single message and I still do but if people send reels I'm not I'm not looking at the reels that's just it's a hard rule that's just my personal friends

I'll watch the reels they send me but I'm not watching, this is, I shouldn't put this in the podcast. I'm not watching other people's reels. Yeah. But like people that don't even know you are like, Nick would love this.

Exactly. Yes, I get a lot of those. I agree with those as well. And I don't mind. If it's a written out message that comes from you, I don't mind. But if it's. Well,

you mind a little, but you'll put up with it. Well, if it's, no, if it means something nice, I enjoy it. I like it.

And it's worth the time to respond and to read them. But it reels, no, I mean, it's just too much. It's too much. There's only so much time. Okay, now that we've cut down on our inbox spam.

Yes. You can submit to the, back to what we were talking about. You can submit your questions of the podcast and that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. Wow, we really, we had two really great episodes and now we are just fully phoning it in, aren't we? Got while you're on top. Wow. Also, you can become a podcast supporter. And as you can tell by how seriously we're taking this,

podcast supporters are our heart and soul. They are who actually support the podcast and keep this clown show going. This week, we picked a random podcast supporter to win, we're losing Paula, to win a bag of coffee, TTL coffee. Oh boy. You want to chuckle heads. This is our best prize yet, by the way. And I don't know if it's a bag of coffee or a box of our instant coffee. It's a box of our... Amazing instant coffee. Wow. Guys, I don't know what's going on here, but...

There's laughing gas in the room. You can't stop laughing. Our instant coffee from thump. If you haven't tried it, it's the best instant that you can get. It's a very special process they use to make it where it like freeze dries, the actual grounds, whatever. But you can also buy it if you're not this week's winner. on our website. Yeah.

We have a fair bit. I should say a fair bit. We have a few boxes left over that we took to Exeterra Portland for our free coffee morning, and we're going to give those away. Okay. So, by the way, if you're listening in your podcast, supporter, drum roll, please. Joyce Leary, you're the winner. And Joyce, I feel like I recognize your name.

But I looked and you haven't won before. We all thought you'd won before. So you must direct message us, or we have a group chat. Yes. Hopefully you're not sending us reels all day long. Okay. First question here, and we're going to try to get through all of these. We have 10, 10 questions.

They're great. I really like them a lot. That's rapid fire. 10 to go. Count them down. Some of them do have to do with your race, Paula. So first one here. Congrats Paula, question mark.

Yes, congrats Paula. To pump me up for Placet, I read the book Iron War about Mark Allen and Dave Scott's 1989 Iron Man, which is highly recommended, by the way. Classic. Scott's philosophy is that you aren't just doing it to finish, but to see what your body can do at its absolute limit. For the pro series, I'd imagine you need to leave stuff in the tank to race another day. I'm curious how you feel about this philosophy.

Do you ever truly go 100%? Do you regret some of your performances and feel that you could have pushed more? Is winning and not pushing for that PR or overall record still worth it for you? For me, it is. Getting out there is what I want, but I'm not a pro. Thanks for all you do. Connor, I think we need to delineate something here because I think pushing

not pushing 100% and not pushing 100% because you're thinking about future races are two different things. How? Well, you might say it's not worth it to hurt this much right now

in this moment. It has nothing to do with the race I have in no month. Okay. It's like the reasoning behind your decision making. That's a hard question. Like if I think about

races that I had been winning by quite a big, margin, I'm not giving 100% to try to get the fastest time possible necessarily. But I think the point of how they've set up the pro series where the winning time is the max points and then every second behind that you lose a point. So I suppose if I was like in the running for the pro series and I had people who are also in the running for the pro series behind me, the idea is you still go as fast as you can to the finish because every second matters.

That's their whole tagline. but since I've never really been part of the pro series. In fact, one year in St. George, I eased up so Jackie could lose less points. Right. So it works in the opposite way too. But I don't think that I never, I ever think about like what my time's going to be. I'm trying to get this record. If I cross the line and I haven't absolutely given it everything, I still feel okay about it.

Okay. So now for both of you, how often and like who cares what I think but like no judgment I think from anyone that's listening to just because you guys have done

a billion more races than we have in a billion more training hours and it's your job but how often do you push yourself just for the sake of pushing yourself like not because you think it's going to help

the effort not because it's going to help the race time but just because you want to be want to prove something to yourself maybe. As often as possible. This is an array situation?

No, in any situation. Interesting. I don't know. Last week, I was just riding for fun, mostly easy. And a couple times I was like, I'm going to sprint as fast as I can of the sill. Remember we were talking about this one day?

Yes. And I'm never usually like that because I'm too tired or it's not on the plan. But I do understand the desire to like give everything you can for just short period of time if you're feeling kind of fresh, because I was starting to feel a little fresh. I kind of was wondering if this is something that happens only inside the minds of people who have a little bit of imposter syndrome around being an athlete. But the fact that both of you also do it proves that that is not the case.

It's just maybe an inherent thing of wanting to push yourself, to squeeze something out of yourself. Yeah, I think so. I think Paula, it was like, normally she gets a lot out of the feeling of pushing herself in workouts and she's been on a rest, so she filled that need with sprinting up the hill. I feel this when I like edit a video. I could mail it in and just like get the job done, but every single time I do and I want to do something a little bit better than I've done before.

And that's like filling that void that I have because I can't train right now. Yeah. I think it's just like a lot of us just want to be better. every day. Even if you don't process it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Next question here from Skyler. Who are the most professional and polished pros you've raced against? And vice versa. Who are the most low budget rough around the edges pros that you've raced against that still manage to deliver big results? I like the low budget rough around the edges pros. I don't know if you guys feel comfortable talking about that. But what would you say?

I have people that come into mind from me from the outside. I'm wondering how much they match your experience from the inside. Yon is king. Yeah. To me, Yon and Daniela, like, there's the same era, so maybe that's a bias, but they seem like such poised athletes. Same era. Yeah. Swiss, German culture.

Very similar. I always get the vibe that Lucy is really put together in professional and has, like, everything dialed, as well as cat. All the best people, honestly. So that's no coincidence at all. I guess not. Okay, now let's go to the opposite. Who is someone that you feel like kind of isn't as type A, let's say, but still performs really well?

Oregon Pearson. Oh, and that's even more funny because I feel like those short course people are more type A than anyone else. I mean, he's like very type A with his performances and everything, but his online persona, I can never tell if he's like serious or, like poking fun at everybody and I it's like entertaining as like there's very little entertaining things on trath on Instagram and he's on my list of entertaining yeah yeah what was the word you were using I mean the words that that were in the actual question are low budget yeah also obviously Ari our good friend Ari he's like I think professionalizing a bit Paul and I were having this conversation as we were

I don't know like road tripping to the coast and listening to the podcast that he was on and but still he's like he says whatever he wants and that is freaking awesome and he doesn't look like everybody else and does his own thing yeah loveari I don't know on the women's side well I was gonna say Jackie for not she's not rough around the edges or low budget but she's a little bit more she's chill she's chill she's not anxious she seems kind of zen go with the flow and accepting of whatever her body can give without drama yeah We could also say, like, the top of the list of people that we would want to go have beers with. Yeah.

Jackie. After the race. Exactly. It's an inverse relationship between how professional you are and how fun you are. Right. No, that's not true. Some of the, I mean, CAD and Marker Superfund. Yeah, yeah.

Breaking the mold. You got to be, it's 2026. You can't just be one. You have to be a top racer and be fun. Yes. Yeah. You got to be able to flip that switch. Funny question, though.

Yeah. If you guys have an opinion, put it on the app, the DTL app. And it better be that Paula is the best performing and chillest athlete out there that you've heard of. No. No. Okay. Next question here's from Liz. Hi, Paula. I'm currently in the car driving from D.C. to Ottawa to do my third age group or Iron Man and listening to your podcast. Two weeks ago, I was in Lake Placid watching my girlfriend finish her first Iron Man

and also watched you cross your first full Iron Man finish line. And congrats. Anywho, my question is, between the time you finished and the time my girlfriend finished during the magic hour, what did you do in those five hours for your immediate recovery? P.S., we also raised Happy Valley where you also won Liz. So maybe they're a little good luck charm here. Maybe. Went to waddled to doping control. Nothing was done quickly. Went back to the hotel. Again, that took like an hour to get all the stuff. and limp back,

motivating myself to get in the shower because I knew it would be painful with all the chafing. Just normal stuff, but I wasn't thinking like, okay, I crossed the line. I got to recover as quickly as I can. I knew there was a long time

until the next race. I knew that any kind of like protein shake or cool down I would do would be so minimal improvement from like the colossal recovery I had to make. So,

Yeah, just kind of going through the motions, which is so ordinary. It's what always happens after races, whether you win or not. You go back to your hotel room, you unpack your bags, you hang up all your stuff to dry. You go get dinner. What did we get for dinner? We went out with my family, remember? That was that night? The night of the race.

Damn. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. On that lakeside view. And then we went and met Brad, and then we went back to the finish line. That's right. For those midnight finishers. Not a fun, interesting answer.

But if I knew I had a race, like, say I was like, I'm racing Boise the following weekend. I think I would have done some more active measures, like spin on the bike, take the protein shakes that they actually do have at the finish line now. You know, nutrition in right away. Yeah. Massage, stuff like that. But I didn't do any of that. Yeah, we were in survival mode a little bit, I think. And celebration mode.

Yes. Yeah. Okay, this next one is for you, Eric. For Maggie. My family inherited a sick Colnago from my grandpa Hector, who was a cycling legend in our family. No one is riding it currently, so it's in storage, but I want to keep it in top shape. What should we do and how often to keep it preserved and ready to ride in the future? Thanks, Maggie. I'd love to know how old this bike is. That's a really interesting question.

I mean, it's not like it's just going to deteriorate by sitting there. You know, whenever you do end up taking it out, you're going to want to, you know, check that the cables haven't, like, it's called cable stretch, which just means housing is compacted, but it makes so the gears don't shift as well. You're going to want to check to see that the gears are shifting. You're going to want to clean the chain, loop the chain, probably wipe the whole bike down.

Wait a second. Can we pause for a second? You just said something really interesting. So when cables stretch, the metal cables are actually not stretching at all. It's the housing that kind of like deforms. Oh, got it. Yeah, basically, like the ends of the cable housing are the most notorious part just because they've been cut off, so they have the ability to compress,

even though it's what's called a ferrule, feral at the end, that can compress, you know, like micrometers. But if on the front and the end, especially if you have like two separate housing stretches, that can add up to it not shifting quite right. Right, right. The thing I think of as like tires or something that can even in good conditions can kind of start to crack and dry out, right?

Yeah, I mean, we're talking like after five years. I think every, if you want to keep it in good riding condition for just like maybe somebody's going to use it, like every two years, you could take it into the bike shop for a tune-up or you can wipe it down, like I said, re like wipe off the chain re-oil the chain that's I mean

that's about it but the tires will be good for at least three or four years just sitting there yeah nice idea to keep that bike in working order though also it could be

I don't know an old Colnago could be kind of a cool collector's item yeah and just hanging on a wall they look great yeah

okay next question here is from Kevin and I know this Kevin. I recognize this Kevin. This is not Kevin on the night shift. I was really hoping it was. Sorry, we still haven't found him. Do pros like hearing splits from randoms

or do you generally not trust them? I had a ton of fun, spectating placid, chatting with Nick on course, cheering and giving splits to pros. A few would acknowledge and occasionally ask clarification or what was that? But most of the time, you all look so focused and dialed, I can tell you don't care for these

splits or are you just too focused and tuned it out? What's the etiquette. Should I bring a whiteboard next time to look more trustworthy? I would only give a split if I'm confident in the timing split from Ironman or if I had a stopwatch going at a specific spot. Thanks for the joy you bring to the sport. Congratulations on the Iron Man Nick. See you in Placid next year. The best race on the circuit, Kevin. So this funny, like he's saying, I only give splits if I'm confident, but Paula, you did get bad splits in the race, right? Yeah, but sometimes people are giving splits that are up on the track or that aren't live,

because there aren't timing updates every second of the race. It's not like live tracking. So if the last split was five minutes, but now it's five and a half, it's not like they're giving the info they think is correct, unless they were literally standing there with a stopwatch saying this person's this far in front of you. Usually, I mean, I prefer it when people do give me split. Sometimes actually when I'm on my own somewhere and I see two people standing. there and it's like a deserted area, I'll ask them. They're like cheering for me. I'm like,

why aren't you giving me a split? In my head, I'll say that. Right. Yeah. I'm generally trusting of people's splits, but it's the same as like if you were looking at instant pace on your watch, you're going to look down and if it's, you know, kind of within the range that you expect and close to what you saw last, you're going to kind of trust it and go with it, but you're going to throw out any outliers that are random like snaps in it or something. So. especially actually on the bike. If you're out on the course in a 70.3 and you have the tracker,

any information is extremely helpful information because that's where we have the least information. If there's no out in backs and Eric's not out there, often I'm doing a 70.3 ride with zero idea where the gaps are, where people are. It's so hard to know if you're in the middle of nowhere. Also, it's very rink.

for a pro to acknowledge, I think anything a spectator says. I've very rarely, if ever, can recall a single time that I've seen that. Doesn't mean they don't appreciate the information you give them. Yeah, that's a good tip, Nick. Yeah. They don't have to be giving you verbal or eye contact or anything to show they appreciate it. They might just appreciate it. But this guy doesn't have to bring a whiteboard.

That's crazy. Yeah, that's next level. That's really nice, though, is an idea? We do love whiteboards here in the TTL podcast. Okay, next question here is from Lauren. Hey, Paula, Eric and Nick, anyone can answer this, but I'd love Paula's perspective the most. Poor Le Femm. What have you done to overcome heartbreak and emotional turmoil when training?

Talking about when your heart hurts so much you can barely get out of bed, how have you gotten through difficult life moments, feeling like you got hit by a double-decker and swallowed 100 wasps? And back to regularly scheduled programming. Friends, family, socialization, meditation, therapy, movement, eating well, sleeping, but not too. much. Yes, those all help. But what have you done? What if you found out someone cheated on you the night before a big race? Oh, God, that's terrible. Or on your way to work. How do you see the light again? Sorry to be somber. Just want to know your thoughts. Lauren. I mean, Nick, you're way more equipped to answer this. I think she wants a women's perspective on it. Yeah. Well, the boring

perspective is that I've been fortunate enough to never have endured heartbreak in my life. When I read this, I thought that. And I'm also a little bit of an ice queen. A little bit of an ice queen if I'm being honest. So I don't. No, Paula, I think you would. Eric is so lucky. If Eric, which by the way, hell would freeze over before this happened.

But if Eric cheated on you the night before a race, I don't think you'd be like, well, let's. worry about the race first and then handle this. No, I'm not that much of an ice queen. But I, like you said, I don't see any world ever that Eric would do that. So it's not even in my train of thoughts ever. Yeah. But I'm very lucky.

This reminds me of a hilarious name that I said to Paula a while back. And it was like a video of a guy like doing a backflip on a jet ski or something. And the text was like, I'm so glad that. I don't have to worry about my husband cheating on me. I just have to worry about what he's going to buy next or if he's going to die. Exactly. That is the case here. No, I've also never like lost a really close family member.

I mean, these are things that will happen eventually. And I'm not sure how I'll deal with them. The only time I've been a huge emotional wreck is when I tried taking birth control. That lasted like two weeks. I didn't experience that. No, you were around. We were at Kathy's house. In San Diego.

I seriously couldn't get out of bed. It was the only time I ever felt so depressed that I couldn't get out of bed. Yeah, I blocked that out. And as soon as I stopped taking it, it was gone. Can you imagine Paolo feeling like that for an extended period of time, how horrible that is? Yes. No, I cannot imagine. It's so debilitating.

So, Nick, you've had more emotional. Even you, Eric, you broke up with the... Yeah. Yeah. So you guys can answer. this question. I don't have a real answer. It was the worst time of my life by far. It was terrible. I was just talking about it with the rest today actually, which I'll bleep out. But we talked on the phone for a bit. Yeah, it was horrible. I read up on like relationships and how to

heal from this stuff and how to be better. But it just was time for me. Time heals everything. I was fortunate, more fortunate than you, Nick, that I got broken up with in a very shocking rough way. And my brain sort of, I don't know, just like, well, fuck. They're like, fuck this. I'm out. Fuck you. And I didn't have to deal with that.

Like, oh, is there anything that I could have done? And it was just, like, mad at her. Fully cut off. Yeah. And I was just went straight into being pissed. So I like sold a bunch of my stuff and just like, yeah, I moved to the. the desert and just camped in my RV for like a month until I got over it. Like that's what I do when I have things like that.

I just like put myself to work, make a, get a new project, like have a big life, do something that feels like, okay, fully turning the page, reset. I'm just going to like take myself out of my normal environment for a minute and that's great. That's great. That's great. Eric, do you feel like it surprised you how you handle that or if you would have quizzed you beforehand on how it would have gone if you think it followed pretty much what you're expected.

I didn't expect it at all. Yeah. I guess if I told you, like, if she broke up with you, point blank, how do you think you'd handle it? Yeah, if Paula broke up with me, it would be, you know, like the same sort of thing, except not for like eight months. It would just, I was like, cool, maybe someone will take care of my house, but I'm leaving. Yeah. And you can take Flynn. I'll get Harper. For a lot of people, the training helps a lot. Yeah. You know, it didn't, it didn't for me.

It made training harder for me, but I think for most people, the training helps. And it's good for your mental health. I don't think I would want to train. That was the other thing. When I went to the desert and I just, like, stopped training for short course racing. And I just did everything that Heather and Trevor were telling were doing. They were training for half iron man and full iron man. And I just kind of like piggybacked along on all that and didn't have a schedule.

And I did that for, like, a little bit and then pretty quickly wanted to schedule back. Yeah, that's kind of a good tip is to be around people that are good energy. Yeah. That didn't just go full alone. Yeah. Anyway. Lauren, I'm really sorry if you're going through something like this.

That's terrible. Yeah. I didn't mean to make light of it. No, it's okay. We all have our experiences, and I'm sure Lauren appreciates your perspective. She was specifically asked you. I have more, I'm going to, I'll email her. Next question of yours from Sebastian.

Hey team, I know Paula didn't want to talk about the Iron Man anymore, but I'm shocked that she hasn't talked publicly about her shout out from the Canadian Prime Minister, Big Daddy Carney. So cool. Tell us about it. I saw what you saw. It was crazy. He didn't DM you with a key to the city or anything like that. No, he's from Edmonton, though, where I'm from. And he's an athlete. He's a recreational runner. Or maybe faster than that. I don't know. No, it's super cool. And I would fly home any time to Edmonton or Ottawa to go for a run with him. What if he listens to the pod?

It's so cool. There's no way. Every time we say there's no way, then we're surprised at certain people who listen to the pod. What is it? Degrees of separation. Isn't it cool to have a leader of a country that cares enough about sport in Canada to recognize that? Yes, that is extremely cool. That is extremely cool.

My mom was like, oh my God, the Prime Minister of Canada just shouted out Paula. Yeah. So cool. So cool. And they just made a huge investment in sport in Canada too. It's all good up there. Love it. Okay.

Next question here is from Jeff. Hey guys, you ever have triathlon nightmares. Can't find your bike in transition. Forgot all your gear. Missed the race start. Forgot to take your wetsuit off. Mine last night was I had my nutrition in my transition bag. and had to go get it from the sidelines.

And then I was wearing the helmet, the wrong helmet, and had to go to my bag again to get the right one. All the time. Yep. Last night, I had a nightmare triathlon. What happened? What happened? Did you work?

No, I didn't have one last night, but I had one very recently. It's so crazy. It was my mom's fault in this one. I was at the race with my mom and Eric, but my mom was in charge of my bike for some crazy reason. And like the cranks wouldn't spin. And I don't know why, maybe because she just booked her tickets for Kona. So my brain was thinking about her being there.

Yeah. But it's very common. People used to, you know, people have like dreams where they didn't study for a test in school. I never have those. I didn't either. I have triathlon nightmares. Do you have any specific memories, Eric? Usually mine is trying to get to the start of escape from Alcatraz.

On time. Yeah, because that race is like you have to go to the start and then you have to set up your transition. They have to get on a bus to get to where you get on the boat and you can't be late for the boat. That it's like my brain always goes to that and it's always the exact same structure as what this person described where just as you finally like figure out how to belt buckle your helmet,

it, you realize your shoelaces are gone. And then just as you're like about to fix that, the bus leaves without you. And so you run to where the bus is going. And almost when you're there, it's just like this cascading thing. Each time you almost solve a problem, another one just unfolds. Same. And at a certain point, I realize like it's impossible for me to win this race. Yeah.

And then you wake up. Yeah. And you're like, wow, I do actually really care about travel. Yeah. In my subconscious. Yeah. Yeah. Why is it? How often have you missed the start of a race? Have either of you ever missed the start of a race? No.

No, it's not a real like, it's not a conscious fear either. There are a bunch of, I think there's stress around all these little details that you have to do and not forget, you know, starting your garment, starting your Wahoo and then pausing it and then, you know, all that stuff. That's a good point. It's not like we are scared of missing the start of a race. That's not even the top 30 fears I have around racing. And yet that is what the nightmare is. The nightmare, it's never like, oh, I'm in the heart locker and I'm balking, which is really the worst part. But to be fair, like deep down, our brains know that missing the start would be the ultimate. Ultimate fuck up. Yeah.

But like we're so confident on the exterior that that's not going to happen. Yeah, you're right. That's funny. That would be so, so bad. Ugh. To miss the start of a race? Just fully miss the start. It wouldn't be that bad.

I mean, imagine you do all the work. You fly out to the race. You get the hotel room. You do everything. You taper off and then you sleep in too much. Yeah, you're right. That sucks. That sucks.

That'd be the worst. If you're at a hotel and you call the front desk and you're like, can I get a wake-up call? Are they like, what is that? Or do they still do it? Oh, I think better. know what those are. Yeah, but I'm not trusting it. I'm putting on like three different fail safes for myself. Kevin on the night shift is not calling me at 4.40 in the morning. I'm not guaranteeing that. I just remember going to swim meets before cell phones existed. And you'd call the front desk to get a

wake-up call because you don't trust their shitty alarm clock. You're like, oh, you're going to call. It just has a backup. I'm going to call the front desk. You get a wake-up call. Like, can I get a wake-up call for 4-45? And then they do it. Someone can tuck me in. Isn't that a crazy memory? I haven't thought of that forever. Wow. I wonder, they might not still do it because they'll be like, use your phone that you tripped in on.

You don't have a phone. How dare you? Use your phone. They don't even put alarm clocks in most rooms now. Yeah, good. They shouldn't even have the, whatever. Okay. Yeah, I don't want a phone in there.

I've been in hotel rooms where I'm like sleeping and they call you at like six in the morning. like, would you like the little something for your room? I'm like, no, I'd like to sleep. Please stop calling me. They don't call you. They don't call you in the morning. You stay in that. I have this memory in Mexico of them.

There's one time in Mexico. No, but it was like four days in a row. And I just unplug the phone from the wall after a while. They were calling to ask me how I was enjoying my stay at 6 a.m. Oh, that's definitely in text. Mexico, it was maybe like 6.30. I was sleeping, whatever, whatever time it was. It could have been 11 o'clock, I guess.

9.30. Yeah, exactly. Okay, here's a question from Dan. During a race, if the passing rider passes with room, should they also have to announce themselves? And a race like Oregon 70.3, with the field packed, it's on your left over and over. Feels like it's actually more dangerous than passing with room and staying silent.

I've seen riders swerve right when they hear it, nearly hitting another rider on their right. Help settle this debate, please. Also, wish Iron Man would put out guidance on this. Dan you guys don't really have this experience as much I feel like

only in Mexico yeah Cabo race and then Paula got to experience it in her in her Iron Man yeah but I agree

I think it would be great if Iron Man just like set a standard and said if you're passing someone say on your left and just made that the new thing that people read about so no one is shocked

I don't know I think no I couldn't say it to every single person I was passing. I would have been talking nonstop. Yeah. And it's just annoying. And I think it's a, you make a good judgment call. You're like, okay, this person is eight feet over by themselves. I have plenty of room to pass. I'm not going to say anything. Oh, I'll never say anything. If they're already riding to the right, that's craziness. Right. That's what this person is asking is, do you think there should be a standard or where is the line? Yeah, you say on your left,

if you need someone to actually move over so you can pass them. Yeah, I like that. That's what I do on the trails too. You don't say on your left if there's plenty of space. Although sometimes I will if I don't want to scare them. If you don't want to scare them, sometimes I'll just be like, I'm coming up on you. Yeah, and then you get to wait for them to not respond because they have their AirPods turned on maximum. Eric had a bit of an experience before this podcast riding in the trails here.

Yeah, maybe we haven't said this recently. Maybe in the last 100 episodes we haven't even said this. But a big, big, big no-no is riding your bike with two AirPods in, with both AirPods in. Ideally, you're riding with none, but certainly with both is a recipe to get yourself hurt or at the very least get other people around you angry. I'm going to extend this to running and walking as well. Don't be freaking walking or running on a single track trail with both AirPods in turned up. Just don't do it.

Don't say it in a way like you're accusing people of doing it. I'm just, I'm, I want people to know that I'm very strongly, that I feel very strongly about it. Yeah, I'm with Eric. Like, it's, I think it's okay if you're walking exclusively on a, yes, a path where there's plenty of room. But like, when somebody, when I come up behind someone and I ding, ding the bell and say, excuse me, and then I have to full on scream it as they're walking. And then they get scared. And then they get completely scared. It's just, you don't need both. Yeah. That's all I'm saying.

That's true. I agree with that. And I also agree with just not saying anything. on the bike in a race. Is this guy saying it from the perspective of being a passee? I think a passer. He's doing the passing. He's a passer. He's a passer. It's kind of been annoying for the passee as well.

A slow rider is constantly getting like, on your left, on your left. And they're actually just staying right and minding their own business. That would start to feel a little demoralizing. Yeah. So I would just nothing unless you need them to physically move. Or it looks like it's going to be really tight or something.

Yeah. When I'm passing someone on the left, I always shoulder check to make sure that there's not someone coming up behind me. So I think maybe that's another good practice that all age of your athletes should have is if you're going to go around someone, make sure you look over your shoulder before you do that. There's not someone come in five miles an hour faster. Yes, always look to the left before you move left. That's a good rule. You say that, but all the time I'm going and then people just like cut out in front of me and I have to scream. I know.

I know. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's like, it's like changing lanes while you're driving. Yeah, exactly. I always strolled a track because I don't, you know, there's blind spots. Yeah. Okay, last one here. This is from Joe in Chicago.

Bonjourno pod. I recently escaped the tech industry and I'm going to be teaching computer science and head coach of the swim team at my old high school starting in a few weeks, inspired by you guys making your passion, your profession. What advice would you? you have about coaching high school swimming for someone who is a triathlet around Nick's level, high school and college swimmer, has coached youth sports, but never coached professionally or coached swimming. So I imagine he's, I would hope, or I don't want to say I would hope,

but he's obviously a much better swimmer than I am. So he can, he's like been in swim. It's not like me coaching a swim team, right? He's been in, he's been coached by swimmers before. But he's about your speed. No, I think. he's about my speed as a triathlet. I imagine he's a much better swimmer. Oh, I see. I think coaching high school swimming is a lot about keeping it enjoyable in a lot of ways and mixing in different strokes. It's not like coaching triathlon where you're mainly going to focus on freestyle. High school swimmers generally should be competent in all four or just have like a specialty. So you're making up different sets for different strokes. At least that's what my coach has always

did. But high school swimming is like the fun path a little bit. Like you want to push yourself and do well, but it's not the competitive swimmers who are trying to go to the Olympics, right? That's how it is in Canada anyway. I don't know about the US. We could, we would come and swim with the high school at races, but not go to the practices. And high schools, people that found their way into swimming through just high school swimming that wanted to get really good would transition to club team. And started when they were way younger. generally. It's hard to start swimming in high school and be

that's almost too late. That's almost adult onset swimer. Right. To start in 12th grade, which is crazy because you're still pretty young. But those are the kids going to the Olympics is like that age. Yeah, I think it would be very hard

to be a high school swim coach without some serious background in swimming. Because you're just having to give technique advice, essentially. not just make up fun workouts. Yeah, basic thoughts on here's how butterfly works and breaststroke. But to be clear, this person was a college swimmer, swam in high school and college.

Yes, so they probably are good swimmers. That'll be fine. Yeah. I think I'm actually better at giving advice and queuing swimmers that I see a obvious mistake or maybe not even obvious, then I am at fixing my own swimming. I'm far from a perfect swimmer, but I think it's interesting and easier to give advice

like to you, Nick, on your stroke. But I feel like giving stroke advice is not even a major part of the puzzle for high school. It's like coming up with sets that they're going to enjoy making sure this good come. Yeah, but that part's easy if you grew up college swimming, you know a billion sets in your head. Ah, so it seems like there's not that much of a rub here. I don't think so, not at all. Another key for high school swimming I would imagine is kind of like master swimming where you really have to divide the lanes up by ability.

So this is the slower lane, this is the faster lane, this is the medium lane, and intervals are different throughout so that everyone's getting what they need out of the set. Because even the group that I swim with here and Ben, like going on 130 is too easy for some people, impossible for others. So it's better for people to just be working

at the appropriate effort level with various intervals. Okay, something, I'm having a thought, And I'm curious if you guys aligned with this. So I teach music, which seems like it's so different from sport. But I think what both of them have in common is that to do them really well, you almost always have to have this like magical feeling.

Good art rarely comes from technique only. There's something there that needs, that you need like this extra motivation. And I think a coach, just like a teacher, can, pull that out of you. So I think especially in high school, I would imagine part of being a good high school coach

is inspiring the athletes to push themselves to work hard. That's a good point. So I wonder if that's not something to think about, Joe, is to, like, how can I get to these kids to make them want to come to practice?

And I'm wondering if either of you have, insights on people that coaches you had when you were younger that were successful at that, what they did, and maybe coaches you had that were unsuccessful at that and why they were unsuccessful. Oh, it's not even really a tangible or explainable thing a lot of the time. It's like their aura and their confidence and their ability to keep it fun, but also take it very seriously. It's really a thing that you can't describe. But I distinctly remember better coaches, worst coaches,

and teachers that were like this where you look forward to going to school because the teacher was so amazing or horrible teachers where he dreaded it. Yeah. But in swimming that, sorry, go ahead. No, I was just to say, I completely agree with you and I don't want to rephrase it, but

what you said about aura and confidence and delivery and all that. There were, you know, some of my swim coaches, a couple of them, one in particular that I grew up swimming under. It's like, would do anything on earth to have that guy acknowledge that I did a good job.

It was like very sparing with that and very motivational, like in this kind of like old school hardcore football coach sort of way, but not in a way that made me feel like I wasn't good enough, but rather that just like, man, this guy elevates people who just work the hardest and are the most dedicated and you know, hardcore and everything. And I just, I want to be in those ranks. Do you feel like a big part of this is the kind of implicit understanding that the coach cares a lot? Or do you think it's possible to have this without that? no yeah like and it's not by the coach telling you that he cares like you can just tell it it's like walk

the walk care more than the athletes do to the point that they all like that is motivating you know if you're around people who are just kind of lazy and don't care too much like you lower to that level versus if you're around someone who excellence is the only path like you get on that you get on board with that yeah it's exciting the idea of coaching kids does that excite you guys at all, like coaching a high school team? Yeah, I don't know if I, I still don't know if I would want to like specifically coach, but exactly what we're talking about, like more guidance and mentorship, like that aspect of it sounds very cool, yeah.

Yeah, I have a big interesting coaching youth or juniors, but more along the path of they want to go to the Olympics. Oh, like elite level. Well, elite level junior, yeah. kids that are really motivated to get better. Which is their whole thing and they are fully focused on it. Yeah, which high school swimming would be fun too, but it's a lot of kids who are doing it for the fitness aspect

without long-term vision in the sport. It's fun in a different way, but helping someone achieve their dreams I think would be more satisfying. Yeah, of course. This is like at the core of why we started the development team, like identifying people who are that committed didn't want it that bad that maybe we could give a little bit of a boost to help get that

last little bit. That's very fun. Yeah, I love this question. I think about coaching for whatever reason a lot because I'd love the, I'd love to one day be able to coach like middle school or high school triathlon, which is not a thing, really. But I wish I could have the opportunity to do that. Because I want to share the excitement and motivate kids to do this stuff. But it's the way that you teach too. It's why all your students love you is because you teach in that motivating, inspiring, I really care about this way. Totally. And they can feel

it. That's why I've just dawned on me while doing this podcast that they're actually quite similar. What a teacher does in teaching how to like write music, which is such a abstract kind of thing to get that into people's hearts

and getting athletes to go into a place that's really uncomfortable to pull out a great performance. It's kind of, there's some parallels there. So my feeling is that Paul and I are on the performance end of wanting to coach and you would be the entry. Let's get everybody excited and the door level coach. Yes. Yes. I think I do better at that. Is that how you feel like your classes? Or like how close to the end of someone's musical career, a degree is your class? Well, to be honest, I think they believe, this is maybe a little dark, but they believe they're at

very close because it's a graduate course. Right. But the reality is. We've heard some of the song. But there's a bit of a Dunning Kruger effect here. Most of them still have so much to improve upon before they can do professional work. So what I try to keep them motivated and excited while still picking it low-hanging fruit and showing them where they can improve without being like,

you are so hopeless and no one's hopeless no one's hopeless but but there's a yeah there's a balance of show them where they can improve so like what else is there to do though you you pass them and et cetera

and some where between like you and Taylor Swift like how do they pick up the rest of these skills is there anywhere else you could be in like the learning timeline like obviously Rick Rubin is at Taylor Swift sort of end right like that sort of thing

Stuff because a lot of them are my age or older. And I was at, you know, the people that are doing it professionally now were at that point when they were like 13, 14, kind of like swimming a little bit, you know, where you have to be really young. It's totally not impossible. You know it's so funny. So often in songwriting, like a lot of these people, they have the tools, but they don't, it's like they don't have the like life experience to pull from or something to write something

that's really special. And the thing is, I bet Taylor Swift didn't really either when she was younger, and somehow she did it. And Rick Rubin is not one of those, I don't think Rick Rubin, I think he was born to do what he did. He was just like, he has the kind of mind to do it. And I never want to discourage people from making their art. But I sometimes wonder how feasible it is to make a living off of it if you haven't figured

it out by 40 and you've been trying for 40 years. Right. It's a little sad, but it doesn't mean you can't make great art. It just means that maybe it's not what the world is willing to pay you for. Right. Well said. It's the parallel between travel. It's kind of interesting, actually.

So strong. Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't see a lot of musician triathletes out there. The thing about triathlon, though, is the results speak for themselves. Or in music, it's like so qualitative that I hear it. You've sent me stuff to listen to. I know it's bad.

You know, it's bad. But there's nothing that's giving them a bad. Right. You know, it's not like getting a slow race time. It's not a number that is unquestionable. And they think it's good. That's the crazy thing. And the thing is, you say it's bad.

I say it's bad. It doesn't mean it's bad. It is completely subjective. It's not what we like. Yeah, Nick, if you say it's bad, it's bad. Well, it's as close to every hard date as we're going to get. This is what attracted me to triathlon is the objectiveness of it. And why I liked it even more than bike racing.

Because bike racing, part of what makes it exciting is you watch the tour and sometimes Todd I wins the stage, sometimes someone picked the right wheel to be on and then descend it just right and then tactically figured out a way to win the stage. Whereas in triathlon, there's such. little tactic. There is some, but such little tactic. Really, it's a show of the work you've done, the performance work you've done

and that work is very predictable and very difficult, but if you do it properly and you don't get hurt and you feel well and you do all those things, you get rewarded with an objective measure of improvement. And that's what I really liked, or initially what drew me to triathlon, the contrast with music.

So many contrast, so many parallels. Compact pod, we made it to an hour of record time, but we'll see how much it gets paired down to. It was compact, but we also, like, didn't give rapid fire answers. I think it was high quality, high value. High value. That's what we do here.

We do high value, except for tongue twisters, which we can't quite get our heads wrapped around. I have to go try that tomorrow after I've had some sleep and see if it's actually challenging or my brain just ceased to work today. Well, we'll catch you guys next week. Thanks for listening. Later.