That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon pool swimming in yards vs meters, the wahoo Kickr Run treadmill, recovery on a hard training day, and more!

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

This week we are recording all in the same room in Ventura, CA! We start out with catching up on training and then move onto your questions. Questions about what the best bike computer for triathlon is, the new Wahoo Kickr Run treadmill, how to best volunteer at a triathlon, recovering from a hard training session, swimming in yards vs meters in a pool, managing a drone while on a training session, and how to mentally cope with long injury recovery periods. To submit your own questions, or to become a beloved podcast supporter,  head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric LaGershom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldston. We are so huddled around this microphone. It is ridiculous. Well, we're in a freaking cathedral in here. I swear this was an old church. So the reflections are crazy. So we have to get real close to the mic to compensate. I'm, I'm in love with this Airbnb, but I will admit it's not exactly a podcast studio setup. Paula and I are still in Ventura, California. Luckily, that is only an hour north-west. Depends on the traffic. Yeah. Well, that is, you could have left any time of the day, theoretically.

I was booked all day long. So Nick lives in Santa Monica, and he was able to come up and join us for the recording of this podcast. Normally we have to do it via FaceTime, but when we're all here together, it's really fun. Paul and I are both professional triathletes. Nick's a professional musician, amateur triathlete, great friend of ours. And, yeah, the premise of this podcast is we talk about what's going on in our triathlon life, take questions from everybody who listens, whoever you are, and we just tried to have a good time. We didn't get that many questions last week, so we really need you guys to step it up and start

sending in more questions. If you've ever thought about it or maybe if you've sent one in before and we didn't get to it, send it again. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, because it's not that it wasn't good. It was just that in the past we've gotten so many we can't get to them all. But this week we were a little bit down on our numbers. And other than sometimes we will, I'll use an old segment that was submitted, but for questions, we sometimes say we're going to go back and look at all ones, but I don't think we ever once have. It's too much work. It's too much work. It's a lot of work. And we're trying to simplify the process here,

not complicated. What are you doing the pod with as little work as possible? You know what reminds me being in this room? This is a little bit non-triathlon related, but I think it's really cool. There's a really cool phenomenon in acoustics where if you're in a room and you can't understand what someone is saying because of how reverby it is, it doesn't matter how much they increase the volume of their voice. It never will positively affect the intelligibility of their speech. It scales with the volume. So you'll never be able to understand them because you can only decrease the reflections in the room or get closer to the original

sound source. But volume makes no difference. If you just change your position in the room, would that help? Yeah, it can be, like, for example, there are some rooms if they're like, if the walls are curved, you can stand like 60 feet away from the person. But if you're whispering into the curvature of the wall and the listener is standing at the other end of the curvature, they can hear the sound really well, like it's whispering into their own ear. It's pretty cool. Super interesting.

How can people submit their questions now that they're super stoked to do so? Now that we've given them this extra acoustics knowledge, you can submit your questions at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. that's the best place to submit the questions. At least once a week, I don't know about you guys, but at least once a week, I get questions on Instagram sent to my inbox, and I'll either give them a thumbs up

and they won't be used, or if they're really good, I'll tell them to submit them on the website, and that's the only way that they can have a chance. That's cold, but that's the way the flow works. This question is submitted. Paula goes through them, picks the best ones,

and Nick Picks the best of the best of those to put on the show. Sometimes I just like direct reply to people if it's just a question that's not relevant to more than a couple people. But most of the time I'll just pass them on to Nick if they're decent. Nick, I think the problem with having you hear in person is we don't start the podcast until so late because we're doing other fun things. Well, I also got here pretty late because I was in traffic for two hours. I'm also not sure that eating pizza counts as a fun thing versus a necessity for life. It does happen to be fun. And what about the little eggs?

What are those called? Cadbury mini eggs. Do you feel like these are a triathlon performance booster? We've talked about these on the podcast before because we were eating them. We're trying to get sponsored by the Cadbury Mini Eggs, okay? Let's be transparent about it. Yeah, yeah. They are the best, not only the best Easter tree, but I would venture to say the best treat.

They are an extremely fun and misleadingly addictive little candy. Yes. One thing about those, don't get them confused with the Hershey candy eggs. Those are not as good and not the same. They've got to be the Cadbury. Are they an imitation or are they? Yeah, they tried to replicate it and they failed. Okay, so question about things that are a little more relevant.

How is your training going? What has been going on? What have you guys been doing? Business as usual. I feel like we don't have the most exciting, interesting training. A lot of people do like these hero sessions that look really good on YouTube and TikTok and all the things. And we kind of just keep like a generally high volume all the time.

don't really take days off. And I don't know, the first thing that pops to mind this week is we did this set that Paula described as completely stupid. And it was like 4K of swimming at steady pace, which in our coach's vernacular is something like between Iron Man and 70.3 pace. So it just feels kind of uncomfortable. And I don't even remember the breakdown of that. The breakdown was 3-400s, 5-300s, 10-150s.

and we did them all, someone on 115 pace, some on 120 pace, and I was swimming 110 for the entire set. Wow. And this is meters? No, yards. Okay, yards.

And what was the... No toys. No toys. And what about the rest? Well, we were going on 120 or 115 pace. So for the 500s, we went on five minutes. For the 300s, we went on four minutes. When you say 120 pace,

That's per hundred. But you're swimming at that pace or you're leaving at that pace? That's like the rest interval extrapolated. Leaving on the 120. So you're swimming even faster than that. Oh, for sure. And then you're giving yourself whatever, five seconds or seven seconds. Yes.

So for example, on the 400s, we're going on 115 pace. So we're leaving on five minutes. But I was coming in at 440, so I'd get 20 seconds rest. Wow. For example. Wow. Yeah, Nick, you just use your. Garmin watch. I use my Garmin, so I never, ever, I'm doing math. I just, whatever I come in on.

You just push off when you feel like it. No, I see what my rest is. So if it says 10 seconds rest, the way my watch works, the way I have it set up, is that, which I think is really smart, when you press the lap button, instead of starting right then, you get exactly three, two, one, go. Okay, but what I'm saying is, if you have a set that say like 10-100s, and on your program, it says 15 seconds rest. Right. I stop. And then I stop. And then I let it get to 12. No, I get it. But you, if you swim slower, you still get 15 seconds rest. Correct. I always get exactly the same time regardless, regardless of how slow or fast. Yeah. This is what I think is cool or important about intervals is that it forces you to go a certain

speed. I don't really get, like you don't do that for biking. You don't do that for running. Why, for some reason, in swimming is that the case? Is it just because you have a clock there that you have to be able to? People do it on the track and stuff? People do people do on the track where they leave on a certain time? Yeah. Oh, I've never even heard of that. I mean, just because for the longest time in biking and I guess running, yeah, running works this way. But in cycling, you didn't have a way to count that. You know, like back in the day, maybe you had a cat eye computer and it would give you about you done one mile. And what? You're going to do one mile every five minutes? No, it just it's not really conducive. Like, it just makes sense on the track or in the swimming pool to do it this

way. Yeah. And all, and most of our training for running and cycling is time-based. not distance space in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. And also in swimming, you are on a swim team 100% of the time, and this makes it a lot easier for the entire group to be doing. Everyone getting 15 seconds starting at like three seconds differences would be a nightmare. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. Your technique is only applicable for swimming alone. Right. Yeah. Anyway, that's the differences. But our training's been pretty good. We've been consistent. I am racing ocean side.

Eric is not racing ocean side. but your foot is actually feeling better. So I don't know if we talked about it last week in the podcast, but you didn't go to Taiwan. We mentioned it. We did. Okay. So you have actually been running just with like a little bit less intensity,

but probably this still the same volume as me. Yeah, which would be a little bit less volume than I was doing prior. And 100% on trail and I'm not pushing it at all. I've been, I've been very conservative with it. But I think now I'm quite pretty much out of the woods and I could run any pace that I want to. I wouldn't, I don't think I would necessarily go do like, max sprints, but yeah, I can do like a tempo run. Okay. Well, okay. So I'm trying to think of the

the average podcast listener here. I think you have a somewhat of an understanding of who that is. Can you try to, if you could try to prevent some of these listeners from having a stress fraction in the future, you kind of figured this out right as it was happening. I kind of want to know what you were feeling and then the steps you took to make sure that you now are out of the woods. Like, let's try to prevent this from happening for someone else. A lot of people will go much further than Eric went before pulling the plug. Right. And then it gets much worse. And then you're out for a month. Right. Eric was like his foot hurt on one day and the next day. He's like, I think I'm not going to go to the race. Right. Whereas I'm like, oh, my foot hurts for a week.

And then it hurts more for the next week. And then I can't run for the next two months. And then maybe you have pain for a year. Yeah, yeah. Like so, Eric, how little did it hurt when it happened? And then how much did you scale back your training and maybe like stop running on flat surface, on hard surfaces or whatever? Can you kind of sum that up a little bit? Yeah, it actually happened more over like the course of a week of runs.

I did, I did this run at Wild Rogers State Park in Santa Monica when I was there, which was like 40 seconds, pretty much as hard as I could go 20 seconds off. and I did that like three times 12 minutes of that. And in the course of that run, like my left foot started feeling this like weird pinch in it. Like a bone was just out of place or something. And that doesn't, that's not that uncommon. And so I didn't really think that much of it.

And then like the next hard run that I did, I started to feel that again and it felt a little bit worse and it didn't go away. And you'd call it pain. I would call this pain, yeah. But it still feels kind of, it's like pinchy and like tight and weird. It's not like throwing off alarm bells. but then after the third run where it got just a little bit worse and it wasn't going away. Normally that kind of thing just goes away for me.

That's when I got more concerned and I kind of recognized some sensations that I had back in 2018 when I got my first and only stress fractures that I've had in the exact same spot on that exact same foot. So I just, I have burned into my memory what it's like to spend three months of the summer, not able to run, feeling like you shouldn't ride that much and just like, kind of lost and I didn't want to repeat that and Taiwan was not important enough to me to take that risk. So that was my train of thought. Like I think in hindsight there is the chance that I could have gone and raced but I think it just felt too risky and I could have easily been here sitting going like, yeah, well, I went to Taiwan and I like ran out of transition and I felt

something go weird and then I had to walk all the way back to transition from the middle of nowhere in Taiwan and now I can't run for eight weeks. And as far as like things that I did, when I was, I scaled back to running immediately. I just took the next two days completely off of running. I skipped the hill repeats that we were supposed to do at the end of one thing and I skipped the tempo run the next day. That's when I made that like fun little tempo running sequence of Paula and then I just started kind of like very systematically but not too aggressively rolling out my calf, my hip, the bottom of my foot, just like looking for anything that could potentially be just like a tightness that was causing this instead of a stress fracture and anything that might be

like tightness that was leading that part of my foot to be put under extra stress. Do you feel like it was a tightness or do you feel like no, it was just kind of like a mechanical bone thing? I think it was a tightness in my hip. and in my calf that was leading to like an abnormally large amount of stress being put on my big toe essentially. And it's like a little thing like that is not typically a big deal, but when you're doing a lot of volume and everything, like a small thing can become a big thing pretty quickly. Awesome.

Thank you, Eric. I know you've already thought about this a lot, but I think it's valuable to people who, like myself, who've never experienced a stress fracture, but get stressed about the potential idea of it. To be safe, he's not going to do Oceanside. He deferred his entry to St. George, 70.3. And you might do a race before that, too. We'll talk about our race schedules another time,

and then we're finalized. Sure. But we will be in Oceanside, and we're thinking about having a TTR meetup on Thursday evening, like afternoon evening. So start at 4.30. We'll do a 5K fun run. I won't do it, but you guys can do it because you're not racing.

And then we'll do a little like chat, meet and greet for 30 or 40 minutes after that run. And we're thinking and doing it at communal coffee in Oceanside. So watch our Instagrams for the official details. And also the pro try news guys are going to be there as well. We will put it, we will talk about on the podcast when it's happening. But we, I guess that'll be the day off. So it might be a little bit hard to follow. Yeah, that's why I want to mention it today.

Yeah, and follow that triathlon on Instagram, and it'll definitely be on there as well. Speaking of which, last week we talked about something, which was the Shredd Hill Bed series, which was a poster, a very custom handmade poster with a really cool design and a T-shirt with the same design on it. We told people that it was going to go live on Tuesday, and we told people it was going to sell out. But, Eric, I'll let you tell people what actually happened. Yeah, we initially said we were going to do 50 posters and then Paula told me, thank God. It's like we have to do more than 50. You got to convince Christian to print more than 50, whatever it takes.

And I did and he crushed it, but we still sold out of 100 posters and 75 t-shirts in 10 minutes. 10 minutes is all, is the window that you had to order one? Yeah, I'm zero percent surprised. I think we should have ordered a 30. thousand prints. We didn't think we can't just order them. He was making them. He was making each one, signing each one, putting number one, number two, number three.

Like we, this is actually not a thing where we could just like hit more and it would just pop out with more. No, I totally know that. But if we had taken, if Christian quit his real job and did this for like two weeks straight and we somehow had a thousand, I think we could. Yeah. Whatever. It doesn't matter.

But we will potentially make more with a different color way. Is that the idea? That is the idea. So if you've been a very close follower of this whole project, you'll have noticed that Nick had a different color poster than I had. And that is our plan to complete this entire story, bring it full circle by printing Nick's color of poster. And I think that'll happen in the next couple months.

We just got to, Christian has life things going on, and we just got to see what his timeline is. But stay tuned for that. And stay tuned. We have a very big and complete, lots of very, very cool different products with a new look coming out in the next few weeks. That I am especially stoked about. Yeah.

Yeah. And here's the cool thing. So with the new website, if you go look at the new website, we will already have a countdown timer going for like when the next product collection is going to be dropped, which I'm just, I don't know,

I've always wanted that. Super cool. Cool. Okay. So let's move on to what this podcast usually is about, which is you guys talking about and me sometimes as well, talking about our experiences with questions that listeners send in. Okay?

So like we said, you can send in those questions at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. And you can also become a podcast supporter there, which helps the podcast exist since we don't do ads. It's the only way the podcast makes money. We have to pay for mics and these expensive recording studios that we recorded. It is expensive. So this week, actually, like most weeks, we pick a random podcast supporter, which could be one of you. And we send them a little fun gift.

We have a backlog of these since Eric and Paula have been away from Oregon, and that's where all the bottles are, which we send us gifts. But this week, Christian Salara, you won. You're the podcast supporter winner. Thank you so much for being a podcast supporter. When Eric and Paula are back in Ben, they're going to send you a bottle. We really appreciate it. It's going to be the most epic trip to the post office you've ever seen.

We'll be sure to take a picture. You have to take the van, just so you can fit all this stuff. We're just going to throw open the rear doors and bottles. We'll go falling out. Oh, I love it. Okay. Well, here's the first. question this week. This is from Meg. Hi, TTL friends. Follow-up question from last week. I've been

racing elite age group, mainly short course, and now some mid to long for 10 years, and I've never used a bike computer. Wow. I keep my watch on for the entire race and get cadence and watts from it. However, the comment last week about not using a watch until the run intrigued me. What bike computer would you recommend for a TT bike? Is it truly more arrow than a watch? I'm racing 70.3 St. George in May with a hope for qualifying for Nice and New Zealand. So I need all the time hacks. Thanks for your wisdom. I look forward to Thursdays every week. Also, this is a cool little post script to Nick. As a lifelong swimmer, my wreck is to put the watch under your wetsuit out of almost 50 triathlons. I've never once had an issue getting a wetsuit off my wrist, but I do put a ton of

body glide under and around the watch. I think I'm going to do that next time as well. I think I have the watch outside of the wetsuit, sometimes just to be able to, when I get out of the water, see how long it took me to do the swim. But I'll just know at the end of the race how long it took me. I don't have to know during it. That is a great idea. You don't need to know one millisecond after you got out of the water, how the swim went. Well, every swim, I'm like this time I'm going to nail the swim and I never do. Is it ever good news? It's never good news. It's never good news. And that's just something like the buoy could have moved 20 meters because of the tide. It's so out of your control. You're right. You're right. Like I couldn't even tell you a single swim time I've ever done.

in a 70.3. I have no idea. Right. Is it 20 minutes? Do we swim 26? I don't know. You don't swim 20. That would be really fast. Okay. Well, I literally have no clue. It's irrelevant. Right, right. Because every course is so different. Anyway. Okay, so back to the question here. Yeah, I would...

Bike computer. I would say on a TT bike, you want to have a smaller bike computer, if possible. Eric and I both use Wahoo. The Rome is the bigger one, which we both use, like, on our gravel bike. bikes on our road bikes, just because it's probably twice as big as the bolt, which is the small one. And it has just enough data that you need on a TT bike. I usually have power cadence, lap time, lap power. You can put whatever you want on it. But I find it big enough for a TT bike to have all the information you need. The bolt. It's called the bolt, the Wahoo element. The Rome is really good if you have a course that you're following. You can do it on the bolt just fine too, but it's nice

if you're like gravel riding or mountain biking to have a big screen. The bigger screen. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you could fit a roam on a TT bike, but just it's just way cleaner to have. We just had this conversation before the podcast, not even realizing we were going to talk about it. But I have the Rome on my TT bike. And of course, I'm not a professional and I don't care about the difference between the drag of an element, between a bolt and a roam. But you were saying that even for some, I something I didn't think of is that you put that between your forearms. And so you need it to be smaller so that it's not like pushing up against your forearms too. Yeah, the roam wouldn't even fit. Same. Yeah. Yeah. So it depends on where you put it. But in terms of aerodynamics of a watch

versus a bike computer, I would say that's not really the reason that we have bike computers. It's more just because it's easier to see than wearing a watch. But if you put your arms in such a way where you can see your watch and you can see your power and the time and the cadence and everything, that's totally fine. I don't think bike computers are essential if you do still have a data screen. that you can see, but for us, we just really like having it there, and it's a dedicated thing for the bike. And way more screen real estate than a watch. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I will say the times that I have had like a bike computer that was dead or something, if you turn the watch so that the screen is on the inside of your wrist, it's much easier to see when you're in Arrow. And you can,

if you have like, whatever, power and time, it's like, that's bare minimum or whatever. Yeah. The other thing that you can do that's really sweet that I've been getting into lately as we're in a new place is if you actually put the route on the bolt, then it'll tell you like, okay, you're approaching this climb in one kilometer. And that climb, you'll hit the climb, it'll go beep, beep, and then it'll tell you at your current rate, you've got seven more minutes of this climb

and you've got 100 more meters to gain. And I really like having that little bit extra information, especially if you're doing a course that you haven't previewed every single meter. Oh, yeah, you could use it in a race too. That's kind of cool. Or when I go down to like a very gnarly descent, I'll just have the actual map pulled up so I can see how tight the next couple of corners are.

I even do that. Wow. This reminds me a little bit of when I was kind of getting into Best Bike Split, that website, and you can put in your power, what you're hoping to normalize, what your average power is, what your FTP is, what percentage of that you're hoping to hold, and then you put in a course, and it can break it down to you, like, really segmented if you want exactly how much to hold in each part. So it's like, you're going up this climb, okay, for the first three minutes, you hold 220 watts.

Like you're a robot. Like you're a robot. Like erg mode, but outside. Irg mode outside. Eric did a video of me today on my TT bike with all of his cameras set up all over his body. And he got this super cool shot like zoomed in on my gears. And we were rewatching it back together. And he's like, okay, shift, shift.

He's like, oh yeah, you don't shift. You just grind. Yeah. Poor legs. Like I get to a hill and I just go harder. You just don't shift down. out. You just paddle harder. The watts go up. The speed stays the same. But I do think that's a little bit of a result of me using Erg mode so much. Is it, like obviously I do shift, but I probably

shift less than some other people because I'm so used to just like holding a big gear and not necessarily changing the gear position when it gets more challenging. It reminds me of when the, when A6 came out with the meta speeds and they were like the, I forget now there was the skies and the something else's. Yeah. But they, they had, like, one of them was for people

who increased their cadence more when they speed up, and one of them was for people who, like, increase their power more. That's snake oil to me. It felt like that, too. But, like, for you, there's people who will, like,

adjust their gearing so that their cadence always stays kind of as close as possible, where you let the cadence kind of go in bigger leaps in each direction. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah, so a bike computer seems way more convenient. than a watch. Worth the investment. Yeah. Especially if you're trying to go to worlds. And since Eric and Paula are sponsored by Wahoo and in some way that supports this podcast,

we really think, we would hope that you would get Wahoo. I do personally believe, as someone who's not sponsored by Wahoo, that they make the best buy computers as well. Yeah, we won't get into all the reasons why, but they're awesome. It's a good company.

And they, I don't know. You won't be disappointed. The number one reason I liked Wahoo from right off the bat before I was sponsored by them is the setup is so easy. easy. It's like you turn the thing on. There's a QR code. You scan it and it's can fully set up. I love it. There's no like waffling around with anything. And you make changes on the app. It's instantly there on the device. Yeah. So as you're riding, you're like, oh, I actually kind of want

percentage of grade on my screen. You can do it on the go and it'll have it on it. Or you want to go to a coffee shop. You go to the app, put it in there and then it's loaded onto your device, a route right to it. It's great. They actually just dropped a bunch of new features with music, GoPro controlling, um, night vision. What? Yeah. Controlling your smart light, controlling your GoPro and controlling Spotify. Yeah. Okay. Well, next question here. Hello, Paula, Eric and Nick. I have a question regarding a different aspect of triathlon, which is about volunteering. I've signed up to volunteer for my first 70.3 race at Chattanooga, and I'm so excited to be finally immersed into this world. I'm also looking to begin my first training block for triathes.

after I graduate from university in May. I've signed up to be a run pointer on the run course and would like to get your thoughts and feelings about the right things to say as I will be cheering people on. What expectations do racers have of us volunteers? Thanks, and I cannot wait to see what you all achieved this year. So as a kind of a refresher, Paul, I can't take out your laughs when I'm here with you and I'm talking. Okay, well, I'm having a good time.

Okay, great. Normally when Paul's giggling in the background, I can just take it out, but I can't do it and we're all on one mic. Okay, so just as a refresher, we've talked before about what you guys like to hear during races, from volunteers, from people on the sidelines. Things we don't want to hear, lies. And things are going very poorly. We don't want to hear, you look great.

You're doing great. We don't want to hear, you're almost there when there's 11 miles left on the run. I think that's the most important one, because that's not subjective. Like, you might look great, even when you feel terrible to, 80% of people. But you're almost there or when you've got three miles, you're almost there is appropriate for one mile to go. Well, you could say the actual number of miles to go. But what athlete doesn't like, what are you trying to give them information? You know, like they know, I think. Yeah. Okay. What about like, I don't know, maybe this is cheesy,

but, like encourage them for doing something that's really cool. Like you're doing something amazing, you're out here, you're doing it. Instead of commenting on their condition, comment on the situation that they're in, which is like they're doing this amazing physical feat. Interesting, yeah. You're an absolute animal. Something like that where, like, I don't know,

I don't like when anyone is telling me that I look good or I'm, because I know how I'm feeling. Eyes up, eyes up. The race is down the road. What I really, I don't like it when people say like, third is right there. Or second is right there. It's like they passed me 10 minutes ago.

I'm not re-catching them unless they get a calf cramp. Right. Or something, you know? But as a volunteer, I'm assuming that this person is really concerned about the 99% of people that they're going to see, which is age groupers. Yes, yes. Right. True. So.

Well, maybe in that case, they do like hearing that they look good and things are going great. And are you having a fun time? And I personally like enthusiasm at aid stations. Like, heck yeah. I don't know. Like big clapping, wooes, stuff like that. Yeah. Like you would at a hockey game or something, you know?

And I'm trying to think of like when we were at Los Cabos, it was so hot and the volunteers were unbelievably good. They were so eager to help. They were handing out ice or drinks or whatever it was. And that's more helpful than any words of affirmation. that you can give is physical things. Yeah, I think it's more important about just trying to make those people feel special, like you're there for them rather than you're going to give them some advice.

So I think usually when it's a multiple lab course, when we as professionals are on the first lap, the aid stations are very quiet. Like we're the only person running past in that span of time. But then by the second lab, when there's multiple age group athletes out there, the aid stations get quite hectic. So I feel like this person that's volunteering, which is amazing, by the way.

Thank you for doing this. It's so busy that you're not really going to be thinking about what cheers to use. It's hectic. It's hectic, yeah. So I think you just kind of got to say what comes naturally and just be cheering as you're, like, handing out stuff. So it'll probably just be pretty natural. Yeah. I think Eric nailed it, though, is for so many age rupers, you know, there's the people who are,

this is their, like, 20th triathlon, and they're in their own world, and they've done just so many times. For people that it's their first or second or third, I think the main thing they want to feel more than get a good time is to feel really special, and they're doing something amazing. And it is true, they're doing something amazing. So leaning into that, making them, you know, reminding them

that what they're doing is amazing, even if right now they're in a world of hurt. Yeah. Next question here is from Stephen. Paula, Eric, and Nick, what does recovery from a hard training day or race look like for you? Will you nap in the afternoon after a hard effort in the morning or power through until it's time for bed.

Congratulations on 4th in Miami, Paula, Stephen. Okay, so there's, I feel like- Let me just tell you. Miami feels like it was five years ago. What? Miami? I was in Miami? So, perfect segue. These are two different questions.

How do you recover after a race and how do you recover after a hard workout? I've been taken naps lately at this Airbnb. In bed or on the couch? In bed. Like I fully get in bed. Under the covers. Yeah. And I like it.

And we just have been scheduling our days that we kind of have two morning sessions and then we're home for a while. And then we do an evening session because of daylight savings we can finish so much later. So it makes napping possible. And I do find it a little harder to fall asleep at night if I nap, but it's worth it. And do you feel like when I'm training hard, I feel like the nap thing is not so much an option. It's like a, it totally takes over my consciousness. and I'd have to do it. Is that what's happening?

Or are you deciding? Like, this would be a smart time to take a nap. No, usually I'm just like sitting in bed, maybe not even intending to fall asleep. And then I do. Eric, on the other hand, doesn't nap because he's doing stuff for TTL 24-7. That's true. He's like always working on shit. Yeah, he's a machine.

That's why we can sell 100 posters in 10 minutes. It's because Eric doesn't nap. Eric, am I wrong or have you taken a couple of naps since you've been here? Eric takes a nap if he's like, fully shelled, like can't even get out the door for a workout. Right. But otherwise, you're sitting on your laptop editing or whatever you do. Is that true?

Yeah, yeah, it is true. I'm blessed to really, really love what I do and I'm fired up about it. So most of the time when I think about taking a nap or lay down to take a nap, but I just have a million things going through my head and I have to check them off. But in the rare occasion where I feel like I have accomplished everything or I am that tired, A nap is so nice. Okay, so let's say especially hard workout, like maybe one of those once or twice a week style sessions.

Do you recover any differently than any other day of the week? Or do you just like, well, I'm just going to be a little more fatigue now, but that's just the way it is after a hard workout. That's the thing, kind of what I was saying earlier about the way that our coach, Paulo, operates our training. We don't have these sessions that are just like epic hero sessions. We have pretty hard sessions. So twice a week, we're doing a big bike workout.

But then there's also a run that day. And then one of those days, we also have a swim. But then the next day we have two workouts. And the next day after that, we have three workouts. And it's more like you're like semi on all the time versus having Friday completely off. And then you do a seven-hour brick on Saturday. So it kind of just feels like you need to be in the routine.

And we go to work every day and we check the boxes and have a recovery shake and try to stay up our feet and eat well and timely and get good sleep. But that's just everyday stuff. Yeah, it's like the once a runner thing. You know, it's like the trial of miles, miles of trials. And I think with Quentin Cassidy or whatever would say, you know, people could show up and do this training, you know, for three or four days. But when you're doing it for a week and then two weeks and then three weeks and then

four weeks, that like slow accumulation of fatigue is what adds up versus big crazy things. And then you have a couple days totally down. Okay, so this is Nick from after the recording of the podcast, and I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that something happened and the cable kind of got bumped while we were recording as we were all huddled around this mic in this room. And we were none of the audio after this came from the mic. But the good news is, I guess it started recording from the internal mic on the computer. So at least we have some audio. It doesn't sound as good.

but you'll still be able to understand what we're saying. There's still some really great information in the rest of the podcast. So hopefully you can still enjoy it. And next week, we'll be back to our regular sound quality. Thanks so much. And now we have another Wahoo-based question. I promise this episode is not brought to you by Wahoo, but we do love Wahoo. Aloha TTL crew.

I was wondering if you have seen the previews features, early reviews of the Wahoo Kaker run treadmill. And if so, if you plan on investing in one whenever it is released this summer. For me, nothing beats a nice weather scenic ride outside, but I actually find myself really enjoying Zwift rides and indoor training. Currently, I actively avoid treadmill runs and have never used Zwift Run, but find myself wondering if all these features seemingly designed to improve the indoor running experience will convert me to someone who looks forward to Zwift Runs on a Wahu kicker run.

Best of luck this year. Thanks for all the honest and helpful information, insight, and amazing vibes. Colin. I actually like running on the treadmill, which is very strange because I like running on the treadmill, but then I also like running on trails and completely ridiculous situations up and down mountains through grass. I like both things. And what I like about treadmills is like the meditative experience of it. And I like, I have to have a mirror in front of me so I can kind of see what my arms and my legs are doing.

But then I kind of just get into this altered headspace and think about stuff and zone out. So I am very interested to see some of these new features on this Wahoo treadmill. I really hope that we can get one. I don't know how much I'm necessarily going to utilize all of the features that go along with Swift and everything, but I think it would be cool to be able to say, I want to do a hilly run. And it'll just naturally do hills. Because what I typically do when I'm on the treadmill is I'll make up hills. Like 30 seconds, every five minutes, I'll do it like 7% or something just to get that different stimulus.

and having the treadmill kind of do that naturally, I'm pretty interested to try it out. Okay, so for the uneducated, definitely not me, I'm not one of these people, but for the uneducated, can you tell us what is different and special about this treadmill? I don't think I know every single thing, but that is one part of it. It should adjust incline on Zwift, which no other treadmill can do. And I think if you build in a workout on Zwift and probably on like the Wahoo, you know, workout builder and maybe other builders as well, that it will actually change speeds for you to go with, you know, what the workout is, just like the erg mode on the kicker would.

But the nice thing about it is they've built it in such a way that has like this instant breaking technology. So if it senses that you're not keeping up and you're falling off the back of the treadmill, it can in a millisecond stop the belt. So they're trying to mitigate that you have some sort of serious injury because you're not able to keep up with the workout as it was scripted. It also has side to side motion. Right. It can like simulate running like on a slight camber.

Yeah, like it goes both axes, which is really interesting. Yeah, it does have sensors in it to see how fast you're running and kind of can adjust the speed of the treadmill so that you're always in an ideal place on the treadmill. Right. So if I'm running on it in that. mode. If I just start running faster, it will speed up, correct? Yes. Right, because I'm just getting closer and closer to the front. That is really interesting. And I think that's really cool because one of the things that you can do on the treadmill, I think you just kind of get stuck at 7.1 miles per hour or whatever, and your form just kind of does a thing versus you lose that little

bit of natural ebb and flow that you would have naturally in a run. That's interesting because something I guess I really haven't thought of is that not only is this treadmill like it's the exact same running surface over and over and over again. But you're also, you can't even change the speed at which you're running. Even that's not dynamic. So with the Wahoo one, at least that is a somewhat different element where you might speed up a little bit, slow down a little bit. And so it's not the exact same impact pattern, you know, 10,000 times. Exactly.

Yeah. That's really cool. And then you guys have the really nice woodway treadmill. And then you have, is it a life fitness one? Yeah. Yeah. So is the idea that you're going to add a third treadmill for this? No, we would get rid of the life fitness.

And we're going to get the Wahoo treadmill, I think. And we'll keep the Woodway as well. So, and just to be transparent, you're not paying for the Wahoo treadmill. If we get one, we won't be paying for it. Right. Even though it's something that you would maybe pay for if you only had the Woodway. If you didn't have the life fitness, it seems like a great. tool. Yes, yeah, I think we would. Or we would replace the woodway with it.

Right. But we really like having two treadmills because we both do treadmill workouts together in the garage. And they're different. Like, I imagine the woodway is going to still feel different from the Wahoo treadmill. It'll for sure feel different. But I think the, um, if we can have two Wahoo kicker ones, like that would be maybe our preference. I don't know. Oh, 100%. Yeah. But that we're not going to ask for those. Way too greedy. Okay. Cool. Well, there you go. That's the Wahoo treadmill for you. Next question is from George. Hi from Copenhagen, Denmark. I've been watching a lot of the videos and I'm getting through the podcast episodes, but notice that workout splits in the pool are posted occasionally and rough swim times on the podcast are mentioned, but then yards will be

thrown in intermittently. We have that today, actually. Are the splits you mentioned typically for 100 yards, which George lets us know is 91.44 meters. Our pools are in the U.S. 25 and 50 yards as well. If they are, do you find pools obnoxiously long when not in the U.S.? Cheers from George. Okay. Is that a 50-yard pool? No.

Does that exist? No. That does not exist. There are some 33 and a third-yard pools, but there are no 50-yard pools. So what is the 33 and the third-yard pool? Like, why? Is it so you do three? You do 100?

Yeah. That's cool. I've never read of that. It's very uncommon, but I've seen a couple. It exists. Is it like odd to look at? It's clearly more than 25 yards. You can tell when you're standing on one side of the pool.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's funny. I mean, it's so hard to understand what times are doing and stuff. But this is very rare. Like maybe one in 150 pools. Do you feel like when you're swimming yards and then you got like, you guys are just swimming meters? So when you're swimming meters and then you swim yards,

is it kind of like when I'm running in minutes per mile and then you guys tell me to do something in miles? It's not like that at all because you're not changing the time. you're still running the same speed. For yards, you're swimming per hundred so much faster. Because you're kicking off the wall more? No, because the pool's shorter. Right, so then per hundred meters to per hundred yards.

But if you're keeping the same thing, you're not, I think you are swimming a little bit faster because you're pushing off the walls more. Is that not true? My turns are so terrible, no. Oh, you don't think so. But a pure swimmer would or would not? think. I don't even understand what you're saying. Are you saying like the velocity of your swimming? Yeah. If you're actually like if you have a GPS, accurate GPS connected to you,

are you actually swimming faster in a 25 yard pool compared to 25 meter? It doesn't seem like it's too small for that to actually happen. Yeah, that's not the reason. The reason you're if you're faster per hundred is because you're swimming 91 meters. Yeah, it's nine meters less for a hundred. So for example, a 110 in a yards pool for 100 freestyle is a 117 short course meters. So much different. So it's a good ego booster, but our strong preference is to not swim yards. And in Bend, the pool alternates between short course meters and long course meters. So we actually don't have to swim yards that often. But I'd say the majority of the pools in the U.S. are short course yards. And it just means you have to swim more, maybe not relatively more. If you do the

conversion, but we're swimming like 5,500 yards every day instead of 4,500 meters. So just the sets are different. And in your experience in Europe, is it 25 meters to 50 meters as commonly segmented as it is in the U.S.? Or do you more often see 50 meter pools in Europe relatively? I'd see probably 25 meter pools in Europe are more common, but I have no idea. Yeah. Yeah, there's probably an equal number of 50. meter pools in Europe in the U.S., but our short pools are just yards.

Right. Right. Because ours are like if you swim club and if you swim in, you know, the Olympic pipeline and everything, in the winter you swim yards and in the summer you're swimming, you're racing long course meters in a 50 meter pool because that's international standard. So the difference in, it's kind of interesting though. The difference in short course meters to long course meters is not nearly as much. It's definitely slower to swim long course meters.

But when I put into the conversion, a 110. short course meters is only a 11.6 long course meters. So it's only about a second and a half slower. And that's because of the push off the wall. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. That's kind of interesting too. It doesn't it depends so much on the swimmer though. Like how good you're underwater. And the stroke and that it's so bad. Yeah. Yeah. Like these times are based off of, you know, a huge sample of athletes and how fast they swim in meters versus yards versus long course meters and typically these athletes are pretty good at flip turning and pushing off the wall. Yeah.

But what I first got out of when I read this question is that it doesn't really matter what people are swimming per hundred. We're like throwing out numbers and stuff, but who really cares, right? Yeah. The one thing that you guys have kind of let me know and that I have felt in myself is that the best thing you can do for your swimming is to swim 50 meters, not 25 yards or 25 years. Yeah, but people don't have the choice.

Yeah, yeah. Well, of course, of course. But I think, like, I think I used to avoid it when my pool had the option. And my pool doesn't ever do it anymore since COVID. But, like, three times a week for an hour, they would have, or a couple hours, they'd have long course. And you'd be like, hell no. I'd be like, I'm not going for that.

It's also hard on the ego for someone who's already not confident about their swelling to. Yeah. Oh, God. If you're used to going, like, 1.30s for short course yards and then suddenly you're going 150s long course. That hurts. Because it's double damage. Yes.

It's two meters. which adds like whatever, depending on how fast you're going, like nine seconds. And then it's also slower because you have less sleep print. But it makes you really fit because you're not doing that break every, you know, and it's specific fitness, right? Like the triathlon, we don't get any walls. Exactly. Yeah, it's way better for triathletes.

If you have the option at your pool, I would definitely go for it. Even though it hurts, it hurts to admit it. It sucks, but it's important. This question is from Cameron. Hey, love the pod and the YouTube. Not sure if this has been answered, but thought I'd ask anyways. I was wondering how you used a drone when out on the bike and how you carry it on longer rides without the van close by. Thanks, Cameron.

Paul, you want to answer this one? What is a drone? It's like, you know, like your Nirvana, like pure euphoria. It's like that in technology form. So, Eric, you used to have a little mini. Do you still bring that around with you ever? No, I got a bigger one lately that just has a really nice camera on it. And I've kind of gotten used to using that.

I just want to start off by saying, though, thanks for shouting out to YouTube on the podcast. I really appreciate that. But the thing that's interesting about drones is, is you think, oh, man, like, I got a drone. I want to get as much drone footage as possible because it's the best. It's way better than anything else.

But drone footage is like spice. Like, it establishes a scene, and it gives you a little bit of extra context, but it is not the only camera that you can film something with. with, it's more like, it's just one extra thing. So, um, I don't bring it on rides extremely often. Um, but when I do, it's a backpack. It's a whole backpack situation. That thing is big too. The new one is pretty big. It's pretty big. Um, yeah. So it's just, I don't bring it on hard rides.

I don't bring it on things that are super duper long. And when I do bring it, we have to be kind of in a chill mode and it takes me a minute to get it out and set it up. And Paula will usually like, ride up the road for 400 meters, then flip around, and I try to get a shot of her. She goes back by, and she's very patient. Then I put it all back in the thing, and we keep riding. And you hope that it means something inside of the overall video of the bike ride. It's really hard when you compare it to a camera, like your camera that is a, it looks like a regular DSLR camera, your camera. And I was just in Italy, in the beautiful Dolomites, and I was really excited to get a lot of drone footage and I was getting FPV drone footage, which not only requires the drone and the

controller, but then also goggles. And man, that's just, every time, it's just such a process to build it up and break it down. It makes it so that you have to be really intentional about it. Whereas with an action camera, or with your camera, we can kind of just like, yeah, I'll film this. And maybe we'll need it. Maybe we won't. It's hard to bring it out unless you really feel like you want to use it. But I would say most of the shots there gets on the bike that looks like it's a drone. It's not a drone. Well, that's recently he's figured out a really cool system. Yeah, but you're not going to tell anyone.

It definitely looks like a drone. You used to do it back in the day? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's, I would say on the rare, rare occasion, you bring the drone out, but mostly the drone is reserved for shots that are B-roll. Yeah. I think if you are really trying to do something like this where you have a drone with you,

but everyone's very proud of Paul if you're using the word B-roll accurately. If you do want to use a drone when you're kind of out and doing stuff, Eric's drone is incredible and beautiful, but is big and requires devices. The best way to do it, I would say, Eric, correct me if you think this is wrong, but get a very small drone because the footage is still going to look really, really good, and it's going to fly long and stable. And then make sure you get a controller that has a screen built in, so you don't have to fiddle with an app on your phone and plugging your phone

in that whole mess. Just make sure, so you only have the drone and the controller. Would you say that's good advice? Yeah, actually that was half the reason that I upgraded

with the current drone that I have is because it has the screen built into a controller. So if you just want the name of a drone, I would get the Mavik. What are they on that? Mini 3. I don't know.

There's a Mavik Mini, and then just get the controller and has a screen built into it. That drone will fit in your palm and in a backpack, no problem. Yeah, so four. I mean, we're onto the Mini 4, pro. I think any of the minis

would be fine for 99% of people. freaking love drones. Okay. Last question here is from Michaela. And, um, not Michaela. Nikalia. So this is kind of a, uh, there's no real answer to this question. But here, here's the question. Hi everyone. I'm an 18 year old triathlet and speed skater from London, Ontario, Canada. I just signed with the University of Laval. Is that right, Paula? Yeah. LaValle. Cross country team in Quebec City for the fall, but now I'm injured. I've been dealing with the same problem on and off coming up on a year now. So when I had my most recent flare-up, I decided to take some time to really focus on recovering properly.

It's a pretty complicated injury, but it stems from some low back and quad activation issues. I stopped running and biking in January and stopped skating and swimming at the end of February. I'm just getting back into swimming now, only with a pool buoy, though, and biking for 20 minutes easy. I'm really frustrated that I can't train properly, and I'm extra frustrated because it's, It's not like I broke my leg and I physically can't train like I could theoretically go for a run today. In addition, I'm really worried about falling behind everyone else. I really want to do a sport at a high level and I feel like I hadn't been able to train properly for so long. I'm falling behind.

I know that Paul has dealt with injuries, problems in the past, so I thought maybe you and everyone else could provide some tips. Any suggestions or advice would be super helpful. Thanks for the great show. Me and my dad listen every week. McKay. So this is, I almost didn't put this question in here because it's such an open-ended thing and it's such an individual thing. But it reminded me of something we were talking about right before we said recording the podcast. It was just kind of off the cuff, which we were talking about, this feeling you have of what an appropriate amount of training volume is and how it feels like it's a black and white issue.

but then when you look back into your training or forward into your training, you realize that your perception of what is a normal amount of training or a good amount of training changes so much. And we were saying how people have body dysmorphia. It's like training dysmorphia, where you have this weird, absent-minded kind of, not you for specifically all of us. This came up because Colleen Quigley, who's a friend of mostly Nick, but on two,

she's injured right now and she did this post about a week of training in her life and she says in the caption that in the middle of that week of training she felt like she wasn't doing enough and it wasn't enough volume it wasn't that much it wasn't that impressive but then she got injured and looking back at that week of training she wishes she could do even a quarter of it so I could so relate to that because I've felt like that before as well where in the middle of a big week of training, you're like, oh, this isn't even that much. Look what everyone else is doing on Strava. This is so dumb.

Why aren't I faster? Why aren't I training more? And then you either get like burnt out or tired or injured and you look back at those times and you're like, holy crap, I was training so well and so consistently. And I would give anything to go back to that time. So it's like the grass is always greener almost. It's like you've got to have to appreciate the moment you're in. But that doesn't totally relate to this question.

It's just an interesting observation. Yeah. I just think of this person who. was really caught up in trying to perform so well and they're being really hard on themselves. And I think five years from now, this will just be a small blip if they do a good job that recovered from the injury. That's exactly how I thought about this question too. And it's so easy to say this and it's a lot harder to execute it.

But stress about being injured and worrying about missing out is it adds to the recovery time, I think from injuries, the more that you're just systematically stressed and worried and, you know, freaking out all the time, your body takes that in a stress and it doesn't know the difference between injury stress and life stress and all these things. So I think that the more that you can be at peace a little bit with it and take actual time off and not try to push through things and try to find other activities that hurt it a little bit but not that much, so it's probably fine. It's like that all just prolongs the recovery.

and I've never listened to this advice myself, but I am giving this advice. This is really hard to do. All you want to do is, like, move your body and do exercise because chemically, like, you're wired to do that. So, but the more you can detach yourself from, like, I really want to perform well and everyone else is doing so much more than me, that time will come. It's not like it's never going to happen. It's just this blip of time where you're injured in literally every athlete that's high

performing has been injured as well. So you're not alone. It happens to everybody. And there is an end to it eventually. I can even imagine a world where the stress of this is getting in the way of good sleep, which is paramount to good recovery is getting good sleep. Yeah, it's like a cascading effect. It's like the way you eat, the way you sleep, the way you everything is affected by being stressed.

So, yeah, I don't know. It's really hard to say. just don't be stressed. But I guess find like something else, a hobby in the meantime that you can like really dive into. That's what I'm thinking is triathlon, for example, takes up so much of our time. You have now an opportunity where you have no choice but not being able to spend that time training.

Fill your life with something else that's that's fruitful. Yeah. Family friends or a hobby or something. Yeah. She's kind of an interesting situation where she can't do any of the three sports. I've never actually been in that situation where I couldn't swim bike or run because I would always just put more effort into the sport that I could do. She can swim with a pull buoy, but yeah, that's not, that's not still not quite the same.

That tells me that there's still some kind of pain with flip turns or kicking or it's not fully pain free. So I don't know. What do you think, Eric? Do you have any advice on? Have you struggled with occupying your mind when you were injured before? Eric, no. Eric just does TTR on steroids.

But what about 10 years ago, pre-TTO? Even then. You were doing videos. Um, yeah, I think I've always been pretty chill through injuries and I definitely take on the men. Although you're barely injured. Like infrequent. Currently.

Yeah, I'm not injured very frequently, but early on I was, I was injured a lot more. So I was making the transition from being a swimmer to running a lot and try to get my volume up and trying to run fast for, for ITU racing. Um, but I always kind of took the approach of, man, my body is broken for a reason. reason. Either I'm too tired or I'm too tired and I have this insufficiency and something that I'm doing and I would go immediately to a PT and I would get a new regimen of exercises and stuff that I was allowed to do and I would take the attitude of like, okay, I'm taking a deep breath right now and I'm getting all the tools ready to go. And as soon as I'm ready to train, like, I'm going to come out of the gate so hard and fast and better than when I got injured. And this is like, this is just like a natural course of the entire process. And it's going to be a lot. positive. I love it.

If you can just kind of take that nugget and absorb everything you can from it, it's just so hard when you're in the middle of it. And also she's super young, right? Yeah, she's at the university. Yeah. She's 18. Wait, did she say she was 18? I might have made that up.

I'm 18 years old. Yeah. Yeah, that is so young. Oh my gosh. You could take like a year off and you'll be fine. Like, wasn't Jan Fredino super like not young when he got into triathlon? It's okay. You're going to be, you're going to be just fine. Yeah. Here's the thing. It's doing everything at like 70% and half injured and too tired all the time. It's not productive. You're not recovering fully. So it's so much better off. Like I said, like imagine you're doing free diving. This pops into mind because we just started watching this ridiculous free dive thing on Netflix. But you just did a free dive thing. You didn't quite get the time you wanted. So you sit there for 30 seconds and you hyperventilate stressed about your next free. dive instead of going, okay, you know what, I'm going to take a full minute, deep breaths,

calm myself down, and then go forward again. Like get yourself ready to do the job properly instead of doing it halfway immediately. That's some wisdom for Eric Lagernernerner. That's how I felt like on my run this week, though, Eric, like Paulo said 10 by three minutes with 30 second jog in between and I was like, that is not enough. I need to take a minute jog. So I did. And then on the next week's schedule, it came and I had like 30 seconds.

30 second job, jog, red, all capital, 10 times bigger font and the other things. There was a purpose for it, but I felt like maybe we should take this out. This is so irrelevant. No, no, I get it. I get it. I don't bring it back to relevant. But what I would say, it's the same thing. Like, after 30 seconds, I didn't feel like I was fully mentally ready to go hard again.

And it was, I was, like, sort of physically recovered, but I was like, it's too soon. 30 seconds is like, you push your watch and then you're, like, going again. That's what I feel with five. second swim intervals rest. I don't know how you guys. Yeah, it's so funny because in swimming, 30 seconds rest is like an eternity. It's so long. But if you think about doing like threshold running, 30 seconds active rest, like running still while you're, because running is impossible to be easy. Even when you're running easy, it's not easy. I think the point here is that you are doing the ons too fast because if you're going to appropriate speed 30 seconds should be enough. And I'm not

being critical of how you felt. No, it was enough physically what I've been. saying it wasn't enough mentally. Oh, I see. I don't know. This is not really. I can't really bring this back to the question, but. But we appreciate you telling us a little insight to your training experience, Paul. Okay.

Anyway, those are the questions we had this week, and we made it work. I know this is very late for you guys. You guys are usually back by this time, but I thought this was a great podcast. God, I love to another podcast. It is so fun. I like it too, but I think next week we need to do it like at noon. sure sure yeah let's do it a new that sounds great this is my favorite phrase that nick says that sounds great i say a lot he says it every day about everything that sounds great

so what should we have for dinner pizza sounds great dog shit no that's not I don't want dog shit take that out no we always eat well we always eat well okay well that's it tomorrow we're doing a long run in the morning and then we're going to go to the pool we're going to swim meters that's pool is meters, right? It's yards. Oh, it's yards. Okay. But who cares?

People ask some questions on this podcast. Yeah, they do care. They do care. They care. Okay. Thanks so much, everybody. Next week, by the time you're listening to this podcast, we'll be in Oceanside. We're going to record this a little bit beforehand. And then we really hope, if you can, to see you at Oceanside.

We're going to do a little hangout. Stay tuned on the Instagram to see what exactly that will be like. Yeah, the Oceanside will also be live streamed. I guess I could talk next week about how I feel about racing Oceanside. Let's do that. Let's save it. Okay, let's save it. A lot can change between now and then.

Yeah, yeah, it might be actually quitting travel next week. For the fourth time. Okay. Thanks, everybody. Bye.