That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon swim sighting technique, Age-group drafting, and more!

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

This week, Eric and Paula talk about balancing training as professional athletes while taking care of three dogs at home. They discuss:Fads they’re avoidingBlisters: socks vs. shoesSafety in USA Triathlon racesHow to stay cool during a hot raceRelationships between two elite triathletesAge-group draftingSighting techniques for front-of-the-pack swimmersHow long to wait for a no-show date at a run clubWireless shifters on a vintage frameA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Erica Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Harper Finley. Okay, so the backstory on what's going on right now is I just have been repeatedly having to cut these two off from having super interesting pre-pod conversations that could be saved for the pod. My name's not Harper Finley. My name is Nick Goldsden, but I, there is a Harper Finley. Well, Finley is maybe premature. Yeah. Her name's not Harper Finley. It's Harper Finley. It's Harper Finley Loggerstrom. Okay. Right. We've discussed.

There's no hyphenation in this family. What Nick is referring to is... Well, you should introduce the podcast in a better way, I think, before we dive into that. We just dove straight in. That's my bad. Yeah, it is your bad. You're bad, bro. If you're new here, Paul and I are both professional athletes.

Nick's a professional musician. This is our triathlon podcast. We talk about some other stuff too, increasingly, because we have other interests outside of trathlon. but the bulk of the show, we answer questions that are generally triathlon related. Okay, so I'll tell the story because it's funny. We had a doggy daycare backfire. It was a backfire.

This is what happened. We are up to our eyeballs with Flynn. He's so annoying sometimes. And we have to walk him like seven million times a day and he whines if he doesn't get what he wants. So we're like, we're taking this thing to daycare once a week, just once a week. All day, Friday. Give us a break from him, so we love him more. And we think he'll have a fun time.

So he got all his vaccinations. We take him to his trial last Friday. This is like three days ago, four days ago now. Because he has to do a trial to make sure that he like passes the test to be part of the daycare. It doesn't bite any other dogs. You know, it's generally good, well-behaved and whatnot. So I'm looking through the Instagram of the daycare. And I see they have this foster dog that they are fostered.

string who's been there for two weeks now. It's a wire hair pointing grafawn. So the same breed is looks identical to Flynn, but half the size. The catch is she's 11. So there's this rescue society in Bend called Silver Lining Dog Rescue, and it's for senior dogs. We've heard of it before because some of our friends rescued a senior pit bull last year. And so we go to the daycare and we're like, oh, we're interested in meeting Harper just to see what she's like. There's no way we can adopt a senior dog that's craziness, but let us see her. So she comes out and she's perfect. So we're like, can we take her for the day to get to know her?

And they're like, yeah, sure, go ahead. So if you're following along, not only did we not, we just dropped Flynn off and left with another dog. So we didn't even get a single day, a single dog free day out of this. That's a massive failure. That's the backfire. So then we go back to pick up Flynn, like three, hours later because that's how long you can leave them for their test. And we're like, well, we'd love to take Harbor for the weekend. So we've had this dog for three days now,

and she, I will say she's not perfect, but she's pretty close to perfect. And the sad story is her owners were going to kill her because she was a hunting dog and she's too old to hunt now. And she nipped at a UPS driver. So they were going to put a bullet in her brain. And the vet convinced her, convinced them that they should just surrender her for adoption. So we literally saved her life. Of course. She's the sweetest dog ever. All she wants is pets. She's pretty good off Lee. She comes eventually.

But we think she's trained like a hunting dog. Like we need to get a caller for her. And she, I don't know, she's just so sweet. She's so gentle. Yeah. I've told plenty of people my one complaint with Flynn, if I had a complaint, which is that he's not very affectionate. If he comes over to say hi to you, he's going to put a toy down

and immediately has to play fetch, not just have a moment. And this dog wants to have a moment frequently, which is pretty nice. Even from the photos, I can tell that that's the case. She has like a nice calming energy around the house for us. Part of the reason we want to take Flindadaycare is he's just like generally on edge and want something constantly. Yeah. Harper does not.

But she is 11. So obviously if we adopt her, she'll come with like medical stuff soon probably. We might only get to love on her for like two or three years. But if we can improve her life for two or three years, I think that that's worth it. And obviously we travel a lot. So that's the other big thing is like finding someone to watch two dogs

is so much harder than finding someone to watch one giant dog. But that's where we're at. I haven't even posted any pictures. She's ever yet. But she's cute. She's cute. I posted a video on my story, but I'm 99% sure that no one has any idea. It's not Flynn. Yeah, she looks so much

like Flynn that if you just post her, people think it's Flynn. Yeah. When you face-time me with her in the car, I thought it was Flynn. Yeah, you were one of three people that we face-timed with her that just said, oh, hi, Flynn. And you're his nephew. You're his uncle. Yeah. Did you want to tell your Jim Gaffkin story, Nick?

Yeah, my Jim Gaffigan story is he has, I think, five kids or something like that. And he's like, people always think it's ridiculous. Do you want to know what it's like to have five kids? It's like, imagine that you are drowning.

And then someone hands you a baby. Twice. So that's what I feel like you guys are with Harper a little bit. But I don't know. It's the same kind of dog. How much more work is it, I say this as someone who's never owned a dog, but how much work is it really to just,

you're going to the park anyway, they're eating anyway, You know, they keep each other company. It's not more work. What it is is more difficulty finding dog care. That's like my biggest hesitation. Just like think about times when dogs are annoying. Like they pee on the floor accidentally or they like need a dentist appointment,

et cetera. And you just have twice as many of those things. But like when they're great and we're just taking them to the park and going for walk, like they do these same exact activities. It's really not a big deal. Our van is like, you know, Flynn's groove lounge, he really likes to display out on that. That's going to be a little bit of a struggle. But we took her in the van today.

She liked it. She did like it. She was fine. No problem. She's great in the car. I just want to be like officially as like, you know, you don't want to be the guy that owns the boat. You want to be friends with the guy that owns the boat. I support you guys adopting Harper.

Right. Oh, okay. That's good to know. Since you hate dogs. All right. We're marking you down on the whiteboard. One boat. By the way, anyone who sends in their.

resume to Nick for a financial future wife. If you have a dog, it's a, it's a negative. It is a negative. So hide your dogs. I like dogs. I just, I don't. The lifestyle I want to live is not conducive to dog ownership. You want to try an 11-year-old dog?

An 11-year-old dog. I've thought about getting like an old cat, too. I was never been a cat person, but the more I get older, the more I feel affectionate towards cats. And like an older cat, I don't know, is that crazy? No, I like cats. Eric, you had cats, right? My family's had cats.

My family has had cats too. Yeah. But we're slightly allergic to cats. Ah. But last thing, last thing. Right now, like, it's such an informal process. It's insane. They don't even know where we are.

Or they're just like, taker. But if anyone in TT Held-Nage wants to adopt Harper, like that would make it easier for us because I can't imagine giving her back to the daycare like not knowing what's going to happen to her but if someone's interested in a super sweet poiner who's 11 and and just so since we're trying to pander to our audience here could you run with this dog or is this they stay at home and chill dog okay although she's in great shape she runs around the woods like crazy but I wouldn't take her for a run I think she could definitely do it if you're like running for 30 minutes no

problem. We've taken her into the woods and she runs around just like Flynn for 30 minutes. She's just not like super used to being on a leash, but she's also so much smaller than Flynn, much less of an issue. So speaking of injuring yourself running, Eric, you seem to be recovering very quickly. You put a little story up yesterday and also you sent me a video of you biking and how are you feeling? Fine. I mean, some days are better than other days, but for the most part, pretty good. The thing with it is like I still have some inflexibility and some like movement

issues that are related to the hip so it's not like I got on my bike and I feel like a three year old and have you know like everything's fine and perfect. There's still some weirdness but it doesn't you know like when we were riding in Tucson I would go for a long bike ride and it would escalate

over the course of the ride. That's not currently happening. I'm staying consistent and for the most part I'm keeping like sub 200 watt average on unless I'm riding with Paula. I'm trying to stay with her. For a few minutes. Do you think that is pain an okay thing to use as a guide,

or are you supposed to be avoiding even slight pain? Yeah, I can use pain as a guide, but part of the thing is like it could not hurt during the thing, but then it could be kind of like achy in the evening afterwards for the next morning, so it's not always going to be like painful in the moment. And then I kind of need to retroactively go, all right, that was a little too much.

Don't do that much next time. It should not be like, actually painful. And what else, guys? You had some snow last week, which is hilarious in mid-April. It was only a little snowstorm. Barely a storm even, actually. Mountain got a little bit snow. But this was- That's true. The snow did stick. And it was really pretty and it made for a great real, or a great Instagram video thing. I was one of my favorite things I've seen from either of you in a while. I thought it was

so visually just like, whoa. I think it might be my, I think it might be my greatest Instagram. and like I just love that if people do happen to go back and look at it and take a little bit more time, like each one of those frames has three videos inside of it. So like you could have just seen like literally one sixth of all of the clips if you just like scroll through it kind of quick. Yeah. So it's like I like things like that where you like there's a first impression and then there's like a deeper like moment. You know, each time you watch it or see it like you pick up something new. I love that kind of thing. And the black and white also is just is so striking.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks, man. Appreciate it. The other thing I'm working on right now is we're trying to drop these new mugs. Probably, they might have come out already like a day or two before this podcast comes out, but I've been working on this video all day. And I'm just like, I told you, Nick, I'm trying to find this song that's just perfect

to like blend some of those clips of Paula running with like potentially the space shuttle, the Saturn 5 rocket launch with some coffee mug clip. And just it could just be insane and hectic, but it's a very specific song. I've been spending all day trying to find. I also have some great launch videos from the most recent SpaceX launch. I could send you if you'd like to use them. It looks insane in the sky here. Sure.

I just throw them in there. I mean, I just want this to be like freaking awesome and hypey. And these mugs are super sick because as you drink your coffee down, there's a three, a two, a one on the inside of the mug. And then the very bottom of the mug says go. So it's like your countdown to launch for your training day. Yes. Or whatever you're hyping yourself up for.

Wait, and what kind of mugs are? are these? Are they like... We got cappuccino mugs and whatever you want to call it, like a classic coffee, cylinder, diner. Yeah, got it got a diner. But the hand, these are a type that we haven't done before, and we will never do again because they were actually supposed to show up for Black Friday.

Significantly behind schedule, but the handles on them are incredible. So they've got a great, great hand feel, but unfortunately, this will be one and done. So get them while we got them. So let's get to questions. We have so many good ones this week. First, we're going to say that if you want to submit a question. You can do that at that triathlonlife.com

slash podcast, where you can also become a podcast supporter, like this week's podcast supporter, random winner of an orca swim cap, JP, oh boy, poitras, poitra, sorry, JP, I apologize for murdering your name. But thank you for being a podcast supporter. I'm going to say a $10 one at that. That is really, you are committed. Love it. Thank you so much, dude.

Let me get in contact with me. Apparently, you don't live too far, so we could go for a little ride or something, and we could do a little handoff of this swim cap if you'd like. First question here is from Quinn. Love this question. Sometimes I'd rather just hear you guys banter than answer questions. On that note, what fads are you resisting these days?

Doesn't have to be triathlon related. He even said that. While you're thinking, I'll tell you, it's not quite a fad, but last night I went down a tattoo rabbit hole. And I'm like, oh, God, it would be so cool to just be covered in tattoos. This is going to wake Flynn up. Did Flynn fart?

No, new girl. Oh. I think she is. Well, the problem is Harper's food. No one knows what she ate before she went to the daycare for fostering. So they just gave us this food and it's not like senior food. So I've started, anyway, we're experimenting. which is not great for the gut.

Right. It's far my nose. Yeah. Okay, so. Fads are resisting. Having two bottles stacked one on top of each other behind your aerobars. I think that Eric and I are resisting all of the TT bike ugly ass fads that are, you know, strapping shit everywhere and making the bars look as ugly as possible.

The best-looking T-T bike is one with no aerobars. You know, and it just has the base bar. You mean a road bike? Oh. Like when we take our TT bars off our bike and just have a base bar. It's the best looking a bike can be. Track bikes. Yeah.

Looks so good. Yeah. But it's like a pursuit bike only. Like those, you know, with just the horns, those look, oh. Those look. Yeah, that's so cool. I mean, I know it has a purpose and there's like barely any rules you can do all this stuff. But when you look back at bikes three years ago, even, it's like there weren't bottles

trapped everywhere. You didn't have faring sticking out of your saddle to attach a bottle to attach a bottle to the top of it. I'm resistant to these fads, but I'm like, you got to keep up with the times because if it is faster, you kind of have to do it. We went to the wind tunnel and tested some of the stuff and it's like, okay, that's like a watt faster like sometimes depending on the wind. And you're like, okay, this is not worth a watt for me. A lot of the stuff that we tested, like we did the easy gains at the back of my saddle. It was zero percent faster, but it was not slower. So if it helps to have a bottle there, it's good, but it's not like making me faster.

And maybe it is for some people, but it didn't test faster for me. Same thing with a double-stacked bottle. It wasn't any faster than just having a single bottle between my arms. But it wasn't a penalty. So if I want to put two there, I can. If not, I don't have to. These are the fads I don't like. But I mean, even the TT bars now are just the reach and like the janky attachments that snap.

It's crazy. Sometimes the way you see these set up and hooked up to the front end of the bike, I'm like, how is that not snapping off the front? There's so much weight off of a single little point. Didn't it snap on Jonas Schaumburg and Christian Blumenfeld? Yeah, they're carrying around their front ski while on the bike. It's a pretty high failure rate. I also think that like bikes aren't really designed to have these super stretched out positions.

So in order to achieve that, you have to do it with. Aero bars, which makes you have these crazy extended looking things. What about outside of triathlon? Is there any fad? I don't even know what the fads are. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't even know. I don't know what's cool anymore. I think we're old. I'll tell you what one of the fads are that I will not fall into is like, Eric, you and I have talked about this quite a bit. Photos that just seemed like bad photos on. purpose, unedited, like, you know, in the name of January dump.

Right, exactly. Like if you're cool enough or if you're famous enough, you can get away with it. Like if Taylor Swift posts video or photos like this, then it's cool. Totally. I'm not against it. I understand. I understand. I think most people, I think that's where everything's trending and people are less and

less interested in a curated, manicured thing. But unfortunately, that's just, that's what I, I personally like to do. I think that, you know, it's like, whatever. It's art in a way, right? And like, you want to make art. You don't want to just catalog your life for the whole world. Do you want to have an artistic interpretation of it? So, let's do that. Right. And there's plenty of people that don't want to put any effort into it at all, and they just realize that if they post iPhone selfies, because they're Taylor Swift. or like, you know, whoever, I don't know if she does that, but that's the easy button and people like it. Yeah.

I know a trend that I'm adopting recently is adopting senior dogs. Yeah, I was going to say that resisting that having two dogs fad. I don't know if that's a fad. I think that's a tale as old as time. Well, if you look at the website of all the other senior dogs available, I'm like, man, Harper is for sure the best one. Yeah. She doesn't even look old. She looks like a puppy.

She does. She does. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, next question here before we get two off the rails from David. Hey, TTL, I've got a quick one for you, maybe even a this or that. We're going to keep it as a question. Are blisters more caused by socks or shoes? What's more likely to cause a blister?

An ill-fitting pair of shoes or the wrong pair of socks or neither. The shoes. Probably the shoes. How bad do the sogs have to be to be causing blisters? Yeah, I mean, there's like nothing that a great pair of socks. There's like no amount of shoe not fitting your foot properly or letting your foot move around that like the best pair of socks in the world is going to fix. Right. Versus I think if you have a great fitting shoe, you can wear no socks in a lot of situations.

But I wouldn't recommend it. Wouldn't recommend it, but it's possible. How much do you feel like moisture is to blame here versus a shoe? I feel like for me mostly it's just always been like movement. Yeah. So if like the heel cut doesn't like the heel cup doesn't quite fit your heel just right and there's just like a tiny little bit of movement when you toe off or like when I'm doing mountain running and you're running downhill and like the laces don't hold tight enough so your foot is like literally sliding every time you are running downhill. So it's like you want there to be no movement inside of the shoe ideally. Yeah.

Moisture can for sure accentuate it though. If you're somewhere super hot or you're like pouring water on your head at aid stations and it's soaking your feet. that could definitely add to it. But to me, it's always the shoe. And in that situation, if you know you're going to get wet, like I like to wear a very low profile sock that like some socks, if they're just like higher volume, they could have a little bit more water and carry more weight

and be just a little sloppier and sogier versus like a real thin sock, you know, less impacted by that. I remember seeing this thing about people racing who racing the heat a lot and have to pour water on their heads. They learn to when you do that, make sure your feet are very far apart. Like you're like in like a power V stance when you pour the water on your head.

So then it doesn't all drip down right into your ankles. Yeah, as long as you can stop. If you can stop. While you're running. This is what we do with the like in a couple of ultras that I've done at the aid stations. That's how you pour water on your head, yeah. Oh yeah, perfect.

Okay, next question here. Jake, this is kind of crazy. Little, little sad. But it's a interesting question. with another triathlon swim death at Ironman, Texas, what are your thoughts and ways to help prevent this? Require physicals like U.S. high school sports, allow or mandate personal swim buoys,

the air-filled ones that are tethered to your waist. That's from Jake. So for context here, I did a little research. What happened was this 38-year-old woman. 38, that's so young. Yeah, it is. And she was a fitness influencer, Brazilian. Yeah. She passed away. And I try to look it up, but there's still investigating it. So there's very little details on it.

But it's likely happened in the swim is what it seems like. And, you know, didn't it for sure happen in the swim? Well, I couldn't find it for sure. I'm pretty sure that the body was recovered in the water hours later, I thought I read. Got it. Okay. So yes, in the swim. It appears in the swim. usually what happens at these things is that it's a heart attack and it's usually older men, not younger women, but I don't know if that's a situation where the buoys would actually help. I could imagine those buoys getting tangled with other people.

Like the buoys that you attach to your waist? Yeah. Yeah, to me it's like, do you just make all age groupers wear wetsuits no matter what? It's the rule. Because Texas was a non-wetsuit swim, right? So all the amateurs were in swim skins. That had to be some hot water. Is that correct?

Yeah, but you can like, that's another set of then health problems that you have with the wetsuit thing. With overheating, I guess. But like, man, if you... I'm sure they made it as high as they reasonably can to have, you know, with overheating as a concern. In the wetsuits, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, in a perfect scenario, you would have that, the swim buoy. And like, if, again, if what I read was correct, it sounded. like there was a little bit of a sinking and then it took a while to find the body and this, the boo even would have potentially at least decreased the amount of time of disappearance

or, you know, maybe. Or just give someone to hold on, something to hold onto if they're panicking. Yeah. If something's happening medically, you can grab it. I mean, I don't think it's, maybe it should be like a thing where you can use it if you want to because now they're probably banned,

right? Like you can't even use a swim You cannot, no. Bowie if you wanted to, maybe it should be the option that you are allowed to use it if you want, because it's not assisting you in any way to be faster. It's just giving you something to rest on if you need to take a break or if you're panicking. That's interesting. What that does is it solves two problems. One, the people who need those buoys are using them, right?

But it's not everybody. And I think often, maybe this is not sure, but often. But I think this lady probably would not have used one because, like, she was, fully healthy and... Right. Yeah, like, I think rarely are these situations, like, somebody that had, like, this long list of

health problems and they probably shouldn't have been racing. It's, like, a little bit they didn't know. You know, like, freaking Tim O'Donnell had a heart attack in the middle of challenged Miami or Daytona or whatever. Yeah, one of them. You just don't know. And, like, what are the chances that person opted into that? It's so sad.

What about this other question about, like, for example, in Italy to race triathlon or many sports, I think any sports, competing as an adult, you have to pass these series of medical tests to make sure that you are fit to race. Is that, I mean, is that the thing to do in the U.S.? Seems like it would be crazy, but...

I don't know. Yeah, how good is like an ECG at picking up any kind of heart potential malfunction? I don't know. You have to ask a doctor. I mean, this seems like a thing that Ironman could certainly say, hey, we strongly recommend that everyone take these tests. I know, but like all we're trying to do is, I don't know,

is it Iron Man's responsibility to identify people that have a propensity for having a heart attack in the swim or whatever. Yeah, it's a pretty interesting dilemma. Yeah. Also, if anyone listening knew this athlete, that's so sad. I'm very sorry. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very awful subject.

but an important one because it does happen quite a lot. I looked it up. It's happened. There's over 60 deaths since like to 2011 within triathlons, not just Iron Man events, all triathlons, but. Mostly in the water? Yeah, mostly in the water. I wonder if it's like there must be something to do with just being horizontal and being

in like a panicky state, like a hypoxic state. Yeah, and cold, I think all those things. This wasn't cold, obviously, but yeah, I've looked into it before and there's, it's unclear exactly what goes on, but it is, it's like, there's like a shock element to it. It's always so interesting that it happens on the swim too, because your heart rate is lowest on the swim if you're pacing your race normally. I wonder what the, I wonder what the statistics are, you know, a percentage of people that have, you know, an accident or whatever in open water swim racing relative to triathlon. Because like, yes, 60 deaths since 2000.

But like how many a race entrance since 2011, 10 million or something versus, you know, like just open water swim racing in general. Swimming 10Ks and 5Ks. Like I'm curious or just any sport that has like a high level of aerobic physicality involved. I think when people are doing open water swim races though, like electing to, they've changed more properly for it and they want to do it. And they grew up swimming. I mean, there's more people that enter an Iron Man because they want to do an. Iron Man who have very little swim background and very little comfort in the water. Because it's just like, oh, I got to do the swim in order to do the whole thing.

It's like a necessary evil versus like I'm signing up for a 10K swim race. Like that's a different kind of person. Yeah, that's for sure, true. Yeah. Well, sorry to hear about this. And unfortunately also it's not that it's not crazy uncommon. Yeah, it's sad that like when Andy told me about it, I was like, oh man. That's so sad, but it happens so much.

It does happen. Yeah, it does happen. Yeah, people, get your heart checked out if you can, if you have good medical care. That would be our recommendation for sure. Like get some regular physicals. Try to, you can certainly take some steps on your own. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, moving on here to something brighter.

This is from Wes. Hey, y'all, this might be kind of long, but I want to talk about racing in really hot conditions. my 70.3 in July will likely be 85 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit that is very hot and humidity about the same. So that's like Kona plus. That's like Kona levels. That's sticky. And humidity. Do you say where?

Let's see here. I'll read the rest of the question, but I actually don't think so. South America or something? Where could it be that hot that there's racing like that? Yeah, I'm thinking like Costa Rica, like right near the equator. It could be like Southeast Asia potentially. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Is this a situation where all available cooling techniques outweigh aerodynamics and speed? On the bike, do I wear a road helmet for better ventilation and maybe a sleeveless suit so I can sweat properly? Yes. On the run, should I change into running shorts and a tank, again, for better ventilation and to allow my body to sweat properly? I've raced in hot conditions before and feel like I just cook under a regular sleeve trisuit. I've even considered during the swim in just a pair of tri shorts so that I'm as cool as possible when I get out of the water. my thinking as any amount of time I'd lose making these adjustments

would be made up and run especially in the back half when people start blowing up totally I mean I would if you have the means to get a core sensor I would be curious to try out like a tri-suit when you're dumping water on you and it retains some water in the fabric

versus a singlet or a tank top and you're dumping water on you and like test this out a little bit and try to find out what might allow you to stay cooler, longer, even though I'm sure it feels very hot in a trisuit. And this could also give you some confidence in whatever solution you end up with. It also depends what color your trisuit is. If you're running in a black trisuit versus like a white penny or singlet, like

line changes, right? And he runs in a running outfit, like shorts in a singlet. It's funny because my intuition is telling me that the trisuit actually keeps me cooler for some reason, just because like when it gets wet, it like really pulls the heat off with me. That's my sense too. Yeah. That was my thinking behind, like I said, the core sensor is one way, but you could also just kind of go anecdotally, but try and both things out. To answer his question, I would say all these things, yes. It's worth maybe sacrificing a little bit of the speed for the cooling. For example, the road helmet. Yeah. If you get an arrow road helmet, like the evade.

Specialized evade. It is pretty fine. fast in the wind tunnel. It's not as fast as a TT helmet, but you get so much more cooling effect. And also, another thing you could try if you do wear a TT helmet is to take the visor off and wear glasses with it, just so you get some cooling on your cheeks, like you get air hitting your cheeks more. Beyond speed and performance, like, frick, like being cooler is going to be so much more enjoyable. And I don't want to make it out to like you have to have a fun time or enjoy yourself, but like it's so uncomfortable to be hot and a hot TT helmet and you're just stuck in there, like you're stuck in a sauna

and no one will let you out, but it's on your head. Also, the funny thing about the visors that Paul was mentioning is, I remember this was a few years ago, but when they did a bunch of tests on them, the visors, it makes no intuitive sense, but the visors are not faster than, that's old data. Okay. Because I remember thinking, like, that's impossible.

I think with the way that, like, the Rudy Project and the specialized or, like, she's now that he's a huge. Yeah, that's a full-blown, like, deflect around your shoulders apparatus. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. But to talk about something Paul said earlier, like wearing the Evade or another, oh my God, Paula, sorry.

We were getting interrupted here because Paula just did a perfect Oilers logo, not from memory, right? From memory. Really? Yes. What do you mean not from memory? Are you not a fan of any teams, Nicholas? No, I just can't. I just can't believe she can do this.

I have the Oilers logo ingrained into my brain. Wow. Anyway, I did a doodle. Let's go Oilers. Playoff start tonight. Playing the Anaheim Ducks around one. I mean, I don't think you're as big of a fan of the Oilers as I am a fan of TTL. And I can't accurately draw the TTL logo.

Like, yeah, you could. Which way the waves go and like where they undulate and where it's after the start. You could, you would, something would feel weird. Like you would end up the right place. I don't know, Nick, I guess I'm just more of an artist than you. I think you are. There's no doubt. There's no doubt about it.

Anyway, back to my point here. like an arrow road helmet. A lot of pros have worn arrow road helmets at Kona, for example. So, Wes, it's not like you're making this huge compromise as an age grouper. Even the fastest people in the world will do this when it's really hot in the name of slight speed compromise in terms of aerodynamics, but for comfort. And potentially making your race much faster at the end when you're not cooking in your helmet. Agreed. Next question here is from Emma.

Hey, TTIR relationship advice hotline. Let's go. Okay, that's exciting, but this is a sad story. I recently broke up with my boyfriend of eight years. We are both pretty serious and committed amateur triathletes. To start with, it was great as we had a shared passion and interest. However, over time, triathlon became both our priorities. So our relationship, quality time, sex life, social, and spare time took a back seat.

this led to us drifting apart. We both really wanted to make it work, but fear we will end up in the same position. What do you do to separate triathlon from your relationship? Any tips? Should we both give up racing? We both don't want to make it work help. Yeah, I should say I misspoke.

She said we both really want to make it work, not wanted. So it seems like there is still hope here or a potential future where they stay together. It's funny, this is such an opinion. right? This is so subjective. But what does that, as two professionals who both race, who are married,

where does this put your mind? I think somebody's got to take a back seat. You can't both be the A racers. No, and maybe you trade off years. Maybe you, like, hey, I'm getting ready for Placid, you're getting ready for Texas. So, like, for the first six months of the year, I'm supporting you, and my training

is going to be secondary and whatever, and I'm just going to come with you when you train. And for the second half the year, flip-flop, I mean, that's all I can think. Because, like, I mean, for least Paul and I, when we were both trying to race at the same time or we're both trying to do a hard workout

at the exact same time, like, it's very tense. And like, if I'm, if we're both riding together doing a workout, one of us is not getting the perfect session. And if, and at the end of the day, if you're having this conversation with your significant other and neither one of you is willing to give a little bit, I mean, you're ultimately saying triathlon is more important than your relationship.

And you just got to like, I think really look deep down and go like which one of these is truly long term, short term, everything more important to me. It's funny. This just, it a little bit challenges this idea that I'll say, I'll speak for myself as a single person. My partner, I think of someone who I can fly to my Yorka and ride bikes with for a week and then go trail running in the Sierra with. someone I can do all these activities with, but am I just short-sighted and not realizing that actually

the best version of this is when not both of you do these things. I think it can be when option B, like you just said, or I think that is possible. Your fantasy is possible, but it's not going to be in the name of performance.

You can't both be out there running in Majorca hoping to win your age group in UTMB. But if you're like, We just want to go see this stuff. And whoever slower doesn't feel like they're inconveniencing the other person and the other person who's faster slows down sometimes. And you also have this great dynamic of like, you know what, today I think I'm just going to run a little bit faster and go to the top of the mountain before you.

And you can swallow some pride and everything. Like, I think that's the thing. You can't both be like getting every last drop out of your performance and doing those things together and having a relationship and and and and and. That makes sense. So wait, they've already broken up, but they want to make it work. Yeah, yeah. And they're both, neither of them are willing to budge on triathlon.

That is crazy to me that, well, maybe this is off the record, but someone likes triathlon that much. If someone said to me, you either can do triathlon or be married to Eric, I hope like, it's not even a question. This is how I feel. I'm like, you know how rare it is to love someone and have them love you back? And for that to work, like, nothing is more valuable than that. And I wouldn't do that for a billion dollars, you know? I wouldn't sacrifice that. Especially if it's just a hobby.

I mean, it's like we're trying to make a living at this. So like some of our decision making had to be like who's racing better, who's making money at racing. And I don't know. That's a factor. But if both of us were racing amateur and like doing it purely for health and satisfaction, you've got to think there's like a little bit of wiggle room in the in the commitmentness of triathlon. Don't you think?

I like Eric's idea though of like what if you would really switch off years? No, because I'm the person that's all in is just like a huge raging bitch and grumpy and tired all the time. Well, I mean, but this is also going to be the case. I'm just, okay, let's just let's see this through and say that you guys split up permanently. The self-awareness. That's going to be the situation. with, yes, true.

That's going to be the situation when you find, you know, a banker or like an accountant who doesn't do this thing. Like, you're going to be off training all by yourself and you're still going to be coming home all tired and exhausted and having very little time or sexual energy for your partner. So I don't think this is like, do you want to have a great relationship or train 16 hours a week and have a job, etc. Yeah. Yeah. God. Like Nick, if you found a... It's called the Iron Divor.

Of course. Nick, if you found a, if you found a significant other, but they were like, because you train a shit ton for an age grouper. You do a lot of exercise. But they were like, you have to do like half as much exercise because I want to spend time with you. I mean, if I found the person that felt like I want to spend the rest of my life with this person, then of course, yeah, it's a no-brainer. I don't think they'd have to ask. Right. I do these things because they bring me joy and self-fulfillment and they make me feel alive. They connect me. me to my own humanity. And if I find a partner, then I find that in them. I don't need to do these things as much. It just seems strange for me to say because they feel so much who I am now. But I'm not doing them for some arbitrary reason. I'm doing them because it makes me feel alive. And this other person, I think, hopefully, fulfills that same thing. Oh. Okay. But cutting the training and a half would be, it would, that would take an adjustment

for sure. Totally. I just truthfully cannot possibly see myself with someone who is not outdoorsy and loves like spending every moment of the weekend in the sun, you know. Yeah, but that doesn't mean they want to go for a seven-hour bike ride. No, that's right. Exactly. That's right. Like you're going to be doing it like, well, I wanted to go climbing. Well, I wanted to go for a six-hour bike ride.

Right. Okay. Which is going to be, we want to spend time to do together. Right. Right. Exactly. Wow. Emma, honestly, best of luck to you.

That's like a... I guess we're not the best relationship podcast because we're married and you're single. I mean, I'm single and mostly happy. I don't know. I've made mistakes. I mean, I think we can definitely speak.

We can speak from personal experience on like having a relationship with someone while being an athlete. And that's it. We can't speak to relationship advice on non-athletic things so much. Next question here is from Matt, ITTL team, love the community.

I just finished Iron Man, Texas, and have a couple questions on drafting. What do you think we can do to collectively stop the age group drafting? It doesn't seem to be enforced at big races by the referees. And I can say that, for example, during Oceanside, I never saw a single referee.

Really? I was nowhere near the front. Okay. Wow. So maybe that means. something, but I usually do see referees. You were closer to the front than you were to the back. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. But the drafting happens at all levels. Yes. I have the solution. Yeah, you've got to have half as many people racing and charge twice as much. Yeah, that is it. It's just not, Iron Man's not going to do it because they will. This is a pure, yeah, pure physics issue.

Too many people, too little road, even though you have 100 miles of road. I mean, in some cases, you only have, you know, 33 miles. three loop course. And so you're looping and now, yeah. And by the second and third loop, you're just all out there. And again, if you want to have like one gigantic loop, not two loops, double the amount of money you need to put into road closures, et cetera. So, yeah.

I don't know. I like the thing that we've thrown out before where like try to split the age group field up of like people who are trying to go really fast. We're going to have a start for you. And then we're going to have a start for the people who are not. And like the front half is going to be all policed. the back half can draft as much as they want. You're just trying to get to the finish line.

No big deal. And then maybe the people are trying to go fast to have less congestion, maybe. Yeah. That's about the best we've come up with. And number two, do you have thoughts on drafting on the run? No. I'm more concerned about drafting on the swim,

if I'm going to be totally honest. Sweet little Eric. People drafted off your feet. Yeah. I think drafting on the run is a little bit, I mean, it can definitely help if there's a headwin. And I think that on the run, it's kind of the situation where you have to ask the other person or like make this thing where you decide to run together. Like, for example, Jackie, if I come out on the bike off the bike with her, she's like, let's run together.

Like, Jackie likes running with people. It looks like she ran with Grace Thack in Texas for like 20K. And then she was running the last lap with some age group guy wearing a fully raced. racing kid. Right. The commentators were like, oh, Jackie's probably getting so annoyed with this guy. And I'm like, no, I bet you Jackie asked him to like run with her. So I think it's the kind of thing where you could ask the person and say, do you want to work together?

Can I run with you? Am I annoying you? Right. Because you're on the run. It's like, I don't know, a little more cash than the bike. Did you guys see the age grouper who was trying to run past Christian a couple of times? Yeah. That's stupid.

Dude, what are you doing? You're going to go out there and run a 220? When I watched the clip, I was like, oh, this guy's probably just like seeing what it's like in his one opportunity of his entire life to be passed by the fastest man on earth. Okay, I can get behind that. But he actually got in his way a little bit on the corner.

He got his way. He totally did. If you're going to do that, like, stay a couple steps back. Can you imagine if he tripped him? Oh. Exactly. My, yeah. You would, people would attack you.

I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. that he's just, you know, oh my God, could I stay with this guy for one minute? Let's see. But it actually looked like he was trying to, like, race him. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny.

I wonder what was going through. Everything went dark. I don't know where I was. Yeah. I just thought Christian. Went into fight mode. Oh, man. But more than aerodynamics on the run,

I think it does help to, like, have someone pacing you, kind of. Like, just camaraderie is more valuable than actual draft. Yeah. It's funny. Because I think the only time the draft really matters, either you have a massive headwind or it's at your guy's level, where you're running so fast that there is some wind resistance that you feel. Yeah, if you're running 10 minute miles, there's not much going on. That it's all mental. You know, it can help a lot, but it's a mental thing.

Yeah. Cool. Okay. Next question here from Dylan. What recommendations do you have for siting during open water swims and particularly how many strokes do you take between sightings? do you try to balance sightings out on either side of your stroke? Then there's a big kind of follow-up here. I don't know if you want me to read it or not, but this person is a former collegious member

and usually is like second or third out of the water, but they don't want to follow the feet in front of them. They don't trust anyone's feet. So it's more about like, okay, I actually want to develop a siting, good siting technique. Yeah, it is interesting because when you cite your hips drop. So it is a technique to practice. It's easier in a wetsuit because it just. just keeps her whole body more buoyant, even when your head's sticking out of the water.

I think the thing people do maybe mistakenly is like try to get their full face out of the water and take a breath while they're sighting, whereas really you just have to get your eyeballs out and then still turn your head to the right or left to breathe. So you're taking a quick peek and then you're doing kind of a normal stroke. We do practice this in training. Like I'll set up a water bottle on one side of the pool and during 50s like try to cite every 10 strokes or practice it so it's not completely foreign when you're racing. I wonder if people are sometimes picking their heads up out of the water

because they think that they need to see where they're going every single time they cite. And something that I learned, and I don't know if this is wrong or not, is my eyes barely come out of the water when I'm sighting. And sometimes I won't see what I'm looking for, but that's okay. Like a couple strokes later, I'll do it again, and then maybe I'll get the glance. So my head really doesn't come that far out of the water. How often do you miss the sight?

You know what I mean? How often do you not see what you're looking for? A lot, especially in waves. Yeah, plenty times. Eric's better at this because usually in races, my ideal situation is I'm sitting on someone's feet and I'm not really siding. Because in the pros, you guys do kind of go very predictably, the A-line.

Yeah, I guess in an amateur race, when there's so many people you don't trust everybody. but Eric often led races So Eric what do you do? Yeah I mean you guys have pretty much said all of it I'd say I cite about every 10 strokes And then if I don't see something Then I'll give it another two strokes

And I'll look again But it depends a lot It's going to vary depending on how I swim pretty straight Yeah you swim really straight It's going to depend on how straight you swim And how much you trust yourself Do you think it's worth it to Like swim every once in a while in the pool

with your eyes closed for a few strokes and see what happens? No, you might hit the liner if that really hurts. Yeah, that does hurt. Imagine your fingers getting chammed in a lean rope. Oh, my God.

Yeah. You could do it in an open water situation where you're like, your friend is right in front of you and you're going to close your eyes and do 10 strokes and see where you are. Yeah.

Maybe you veered 15 degrees to the left. But either way. It's good to sight. Every 10 strokes, Eric, that is really a lot. I remember reading like six or even some people like, especially at the beginning of a race, it seems like when I watch you guys, there's a lot of sighting just to kind of get your, your bearings at first and then it cools off.

Yeah, I mean, it's, I don't count it, but somewhere between six, ten, depending on, yeah, where you are in the race, how far away somebody is in front of you. Like sometimes if you're just, if you're trying to close the gap to someone, you just got to like put your head down for 10 strokes and swim as hard as you possibly can. And you just hope that you're going in the right direction because it's, if you're looking up, it's too slow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so epic. It's way faster to not sight. Oh my gosh. I love it. Wait, last thing with open water swimming, though, and sighting is goggle choice. If your goggles are fogged up or you don't have the right tint, it doesn't matter how often you cite,

you're not going to be able to see what you're seeing. So my tip, which is an expensive tip, is to get new goggles for every single race where the anti-fog is like pristine and no matter what you're going to be able to see. That is the way to go. That's also about the timeline of which you could definitely justify getting new goggles. And then just use them in the pool. After the race, I'll use them in the pool.

Yeah, it's totally worth it. Plus, we do get them from Orca. Yeah, the Orca ones are so nice, by the way, people. Orca is a sponsor of Eric and Paula, but those are my favorite goggles, for sure. Yeah, they're nice. Next question here is from Eric with a K. This is kind of a date question. How long, it's not kind of a day question.

It's a completely a day question. How long would you wait for a date at a run club? Set up a date to go to the run club together. She said she was running late. I waited until the whole group left in a few minutes and never saw her show up. Bummer! That is awful. Bummer, dude.

That's terrible. Who would do that? I'm running late and then you don't show up? Yeah. That's the worst thing ever. No shows in general. To me on dates, I'm like, who are these people? Just don't.

show, I'm running late so you, like, this is, that's evil. That sounds malicious. Yeah. Okay. I would be so angry. How long do you wait? If you're going on a group run club run, I wouldn't wait at all. I don't know. I don't agree. If they say they're running late,

I'm like, well, then I'm going to do the nice thing and wait for this person who I have a date with. And then we can try to catch them together. This is a difference between you and me and Ben Paula. Paula's getting training in. Oh, my God. I'm like, I guess you're not for me. I don't do people who are late. I don't know if they still do this, but Venice Run Club here in L.A., it's like, it's such a scene.

It's like 20% a run club and 80% a social, like, scene slash dating thing. Yes, exactly. Like the guys there, everyone's like shredded. No one looks like a runner. They all look like fitness influencers. and they're all wearing the same exact thing. And what they used to do, I don't know if they still do it. But if you're new there, they make you go up on this thing.

And you tell everyone if you're single or not. Just kind of like set the stage for once. Why don't you go to that? I've been once. And I just was like, these are not my people. She's not here. You know? That's a good one.

She's not here. She's not here. She's running late. I would go. Yeah, she's running real late. And in another state. But yeah, the run club scenes, I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but a few of them here are like dating hookup things with an excuse,

especially now that running is so in the mainstream. Good to know. I'm fit, you're fit. Exactly. It's a cup. It's like the Olympic Village, you know. Olympic Village Light. Okay, last one here is from Chris.

Hey, TTL Squad. I have an old Peugeot that I love and want to keep the bike, not the car. And I want to keep. Is it worth upgrading it with wireless shifters and remove the down tube ones? And would this be an expensive swap?

Eric, is this not possible, right? No bike that has down tube shifters could fit a wireless system, right? Yeah, good. You just put a new, you put a new derailer on. Well, the problem is going to be... But the spacing is not going to be right.

Yeah, is that the hub spacing. I mean, I think this is possible, but you could potentially spend like three grand having like a custom fabricator figure this out for you, which is kind of like... You're like, resto-modded, like, cars and stuff where it's like this looks like this super old truck on the outside, but underneath it's like got brand-new engine and transmission all the stuff. So I'm kind of into it from that perspective.

absolutely not economical. Right. But if you try, please send picks. That's such a funny thing, because it's one thing to go from mechanical to wireless. It's another thing to go

from mechanical down-tube shifters to wireless. You're skipping several generations of technology there. That's a fun idea. That is a fun idea. I saw some people riding up Skyliner yesterday

with some of those ancient looking cool bikes. They are slow. Sweetie, used to race triathlon on it. Yeah. I did my second year or whatever of trathal on a down-tube shifter bike. Did my first trathol ever on a mountain bike. You know, it's even the shifters on the edges of TT bars where you have to like do the lever.

Even that feels archaic to me at this point. I know. I know. Just like just like, yeah. And then when you're in the base bar, you can't shift unless you reach up. You reach up every time. Mm-hmm. Those were the days.

While a shifting is really nice on road bikes, but I still feel. find it to be kind of unnecessary. But not having wireless shifting on a TT bike is crazy. I agree. It feels really crazy. It feels really crazy. I don't know how people do that. But if you have a modern-ish TT bike with wired shifting, is that easy to convert to electronic shifting?

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, modern-ish, again, like the issue is going to be hubs. Like my speed concept from 2018. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 100%. 100%. Okay. Yeah, it'd be great actually

because you don't have to freaking run cables through the bike. Oh, I did have electric shifting on that bike. I don't think I've ever owned a TT bike with the other kind of gears. What do they call there? Do you know? Like the lever shifters?

A little like the little thing is. Yeah, I mean, they're like friction shifters. Wow. And do they, I've literally never even used one. Do they click into gear or are they like down-to-shifters where you just like, you have to find the right point? The big ring, the front

does not have a click in it. You're just yank until it goes. And the rear ones, I went back and forth between having them indexed and not indexed because it could be kind of unreliable and annoying if it wasn't dialed in just right.

And I just, I had such shit gear. Like, for the first half of my career, I would often leave them like not indexed so I could just like find the gear on my own. Wow. Wow. That's how you really appreciate Nice stuff, hey? Yes.

Yeah. My mom recently got into track cycling because there's a new velodrome in Edmonton. And she's just borrowing bikes that they have for rent at the velodrome. And she's obsessed with this sport now. Like she grew up cycling. She's a really good cyclist, but she's never been on a track like this. So she wants to get a new track bike because she borrowed her friends one day that was like a super modern nice track bike. But it's so hard to find nice secondhand track bikes.

This isn't a side, but I just told her like, you're going to be so, when you find the one, it's going to be so much nicer than these rental bikes that you're getting that you're going to appreciate it that much more. You know, if you start with such a shitty one and upgrade to a nice thing. It is crazy what your brain does too. I remember when I was riding everywhere around L.A. on my fixie, couldn't really do climbs, but I was riding everywhere. I was perfectly happy on that bike. There's nothing wrong with that bike. I could ride it all day. And then once I got my first road bike, I immediately just couldn't ride the fixie anymore. I was like, my hands hurt, my groin hurts. Like, this is so uncomfortable. I'm grinding up these like 2% grades because I don't have shifting.

I can't go back. I really like, it changes your perception of what is comfortable. Makes you soft. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Rough. If anyone in the TTL world has a 52 or 54 truck. rack bike, they want to sell.

How tall is she? We'll buy it. She's the same. I mean, I ride a 52, but she could do a 54, probably. Wow. Yeah. I ride a 54. What do you ride? 54, yeah. Eric and I both ride 54. Yeah, I mean, preferably 52, but that was an aside. I love as sides. We love a sides. As I forget who said it at this point, Quinn, Quinn said, sometimes they prefer the banter over the answering the questions. Luckily, we do both. help it. Yeah, we got you covered, no matter what. Eric, before we go, what's the shirt you're wearing?

This is just a blank, basically, that I'm trying out. It's from the printer that we use here in Bend. Days printing. Yeah. And the cut of this shirt and the material is absolutely fantastic. So we're going to be doing it. The next thing we do is going to be on this shirt. Oh, good.

That was a little foreshadowing there. I promise that wasn't a plant. I was genuinely curious. I mean Paula actually said like a week ago Are we gonna make some shirts with that Like you wear that every single day I'm like yeah actually

It's also just like a cool retro graphic I'm super into the It's like a motorcycle motorcycle shop The long sleeve like mint green one That thing is like my favorite shirt right now Yeah Love that To close it out

I'm gonna finish with the dog story Because we started with the dog story So we get this dog on Friday Harper and in the meantime, Jason Pohl, who's a fellow pro in town, has a puppy Whippet. And he's going to Iron Man, Texas,

and needs a dog sitter last minute. And I'm like... The Wippets are like the baby greyhounds? Yes, I committed to watching this Wippet before we had Harper. So, of course, I still have to watch the Wipit. Got it. So now we have a puppy Wipit, a senior rescue,

a Flynn. and we're trying to assess whether we want to keep this 11-year-old rescue while there's a whip it, literally whipping around our house in a million miles an hour. Like, this dog is so interesting. Imagine drowning and then someone hands you a whip it. Yes, exactly. Like it's a super cool looking dog. Oh, my God. But it's like, it's a bit like abstract.

They're insane. Dogs. They're totally insane. Like watching it run and accelerate is the coolest thing ever. I've seen videos of them running at speed. There's like these powerful butt muscles. And the whip it was stressed. So it wasn't eating.

And I'm like, dude, you need to eat. You're so skinny. It's so clumsy though. You're like all top speed, but just like smashes into a bush. Like just trips over everything. Its legs are just like flailing around as it's running through the woods. It's like a track sprinter that you make go and do a trail run. It's actually very triathlete.

It's like, yeah, you're incredibly fit. But you've done your whole winter indoors and you don't know how to round. to run outdoors. Yeah, exactly. It was comical. So the whipit got picked up today. So now I feel like we can truly assess what Harper's like with Flynn because we don't have like a freaking dog kennel going on in our house. Right.

I thought that was kind of funny. Yeah. A year ago, you had said that if you weren't doing triathlon, like you would love to, like, I don't remember exactly what you said, but it's something like run a dog foster thing. And you're kind of... Careful what you wish for. Your secret wishes are kind of coming true. I mean, I like good dogs.

Flynn, looking after other dogs has made us realize that Flynn is a freaking perfect angel. Right. In most ways. It's true, it's true, Nick. Your friend's dogs, you say they're bad. Yes, they are. They are. They are bad.

Flynn is a perfect angel. It is true. I just wish Flynn had more emotion. Yes, okay. But that doesn't make him a bad dog. It doesn't make him a bad dog. No. He'll never chew a thing. Anyway. It's eye opening. He won't eat the timbits, you know? You won't eat the timbits.

Yeah, sometimes it just takes, you know, some other dogs to realize that you have the perfect thing. Well, let's end it right there. That's perfect. how true how like life i know it's very applicable to life okay bye bye