That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon swim speed work, recovering from big races, and more!

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

This week we talk triathlon, swimrun, racing, training, and more! We kick things off with an exciting announcement about a new TTL drop coming mid-next week, then dive straight into listener-submitted questions. This week, we discussed:Speedos vs. jammersGoals for the rest of 2025What time of day (and how often) Paula swimsBest winter and snow activities to maintain run fitnessHow to wash a running hatMentally and emotionally approaching a race with bad memoriesHow to record swimrun on a GPS watchHow swim speed work should feelPost-race food traditions for the prosA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Finlay. I'm Nick Goldston. We'll just get this straight out of the way. Paula's throat is feeling a little sore today. She came down with a little bit of a sniffle. So she may be quiet. She may be falling asleep. But Nick and I are going to carry the load on this one just in case her voice gives out partway through. And also Nick has a stuff he knows. Yeah, don't worry. I'm also sick. I guess you're going to be listening to me monologue for the next 50. 57 minutes. Oh, yeah. If you're new here, Paul and I are both professional athletes. Nick's professional musician, amateur athlete, and we enjoy chatting with each other, talking about triathlon things and answering questions

that people send into us. So if you do that, thank you so much. And if you haven't done that, get right on it. This is the time. The time is now. No better time than now. The best time to plant a tree was 40 years ago. The second best time is right now.

I do like that. That reminds me of a thing that I saw, like, when, a meme, like, when you wake up and realize that in 1995, you should have been buying a house instead of, like, being born. Yeah. Instead of learning how to ride a bicycle. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But yeah, I don't actually know what all we have going on in the show for today, but nobody's raced, so we don't have any race recaps to get out of the way. But life is good.

Life is so good. I'm in the offseason. I know that, I don't know if Eric, you are. on the cusp, but not quite there. And Paula, you are, you are really not quite there. But I'm having fun. I'm doing fun things at this point. Yeah, I'm not quite there, yeah.

Since I didn't quite have the race that I wanted at Kodiak a couple weeks ago, I think I am going to do Pacific Trails, 50K, which is a new race that UTMB just announced a couple months ago. That's in about another month. But the biggest thing that's coming up, like no question is Paul's race in 7,000. to point three worlds. So she is definitely still in it. Peak time is now. And we're kind of putting the final icing we, as in her, on the cake, before we fly to Marbea in like a week and a half.

Oh my gosh. That is crazy. That is so soon, man. Yeah. It's going to be a fun trip. You have to decide if you're going to come with us, Nick. It's up to you because my bags are packed. I'm ready to go. Yeah, I think the, here is your itinerary. It just needs to show up in Nick's inbox. Yeah, yep, yep. Yeah, I'm down. You know, I just had such a good time in Spain when I was there by myself. I'm ready to attack it again. And I have a feeling my Spanish might be better than either of yours. Eric, you speak Spanish pretty well, don't you? I wouldn't say I speak Spanish well. I took Spanish in high school and then I feel like I can understand a fair bit when I hear people talk it, but brain does not process fast enough to have a great conversation or anything. You know what? Brad from precision hydration.

said he'd pay for your flights if you wore a precision speedo all week. Yeah. Outside? Which, of course, I would. I would love to. There's actually a question this week about speedos. So I'm happy to represent my Italian heritage by wearing a speedo all week. A precision speedo.

Sure. I mean, it might be worth it. Yeah, we love. Let's revisit it. Great, great. But yeah, this week we mostly have questions, and they're really good questions. So I think that'll be the focus. but I did want to bring up one thing before we got into that,

which is that we have a drop coming, and it's six days away from when this podcast comes out. It'll be middle of next week, but it's probably, I mean, Eric, you're wearing the hat right now. It's probably the thing I'm most, the design I'm most excited about of any TTL thing since the original Circle logo. Oh, wow.

Yeah, for me, yes. It does feel really good. So this is a multifaceted launch. This is a big one. You're not going to want to miss this one. There's a lot going on. But the center piece of the whole thing is this, there are two hats, a men's shirt and a women's shirt,

that Danny Gardner and I designed together. As in, I came up with the idea, the concept, and then Danny actually did art. And if you're not familiar with who that is, he designed our trail logo. He designed shred till bed. So if that gives you a little bit of an idea what sort of level we're talking about here, we're really excited about it.

And I feel like this launch and this design is a little bit of a reaffirmation or a restating of why TTL exists at all. And yes, I'm also massively excited about it, Nick. So beyond that, we are just doing like kind of like, I'm calling it like reinforcements, like fall reinforcements. We've got some new mugs that are coming out. some water bottles and a bandana a dog bandana I didn't know what the bandana

I just got a little bit excited when I was at the print screen printer and I might have ordered some bandanas that look real good on Flynn wait what do they what do they look like? It's the TTL trail logo

oh on a bandana it's a big cotton bandana so Flynn loves it he loves it so much of course he does He looks freaking good on him

His colors for sure But you could also pin it up on the wall Or use it as human bandana If you so choose But sure Yeah So just like a whole bunch of really fun stuff And yeah

I'm freaking I'm freaking psyched It's been a little while Since we did a drop of stuff And all this stuff feels real good Yeah Okay so Eric I'm curious Post 50K

Are you back to full strength training right now Where are you at Like how do you do this How do you do a race where you gave it so much of yourself that you had to walk at the end because you were so dead to then try to race a month later and not just race but qualify for UTMB. So you're trying to race at the best of your ability. What do you do? Like how much of a break do you take? How much intensity do you get back into it when you are training? I don't really know yet, to be honest.

I've had a bit of a conversation with my coach. You know, he asked like, how often do people race 50 case professionally, you know, because like professional marathoners race twice a year. Right, right. And that's, you know, not as long, but it's like that amount of running is actually a massive toll on your body. And I hadn't really processed that that much until this week, to be honest. So yeah, like I think on Friday, you know, like almost a full week after the race, I texted him and said, I am still feeling such like a absolute shell of myself. Normally, after a 70.3 even like Wednesday, if somebody invites me on a bike ride,

I jump a mountain bike ride. You know, I just jump on it. And if Paula's got a workout on Thursday, like, I'll come along and take some pictures. And this entire week, all I felt like doing was sitting in a coffee shop and just like eating baked goods. Like that is what does like the extent of what my brain wanted to do.

I didn't feel like I could edit anything. I didn't feel like I could exercise. I was like completely depleted. Do you think that's the nature of 50, K racing or do you think that is maybe because of how deep you had to go for this particular one and the altitude and all those variables? I would say a little bit of both because I've done other 50Ks and I haven't been this destroyed.

I've been like in pain, you know, soreness muscularly. But I think a little bit of both. I just went extremely deep even though I didn't go fast, you know, went to the well in a lot of ways. You went fast for a good portion of it. I mean, probably like a marathon of it, you know? Right. That's true. That's true.

And I also just, I think I was carrying a little bit of like load of fatigue just from some stuff that's been going on my life the last few weeks and everything. And so I just think a multitude of factors made it. So I'm a little extra tired. But I don't know what the limit is on the number of 50Ks you can do a year. I didn't really have a great question for my coach, a great answer for my coach on that question, besides just kind of like looking around and trying to surmise from other people.

But I was talking to Paula about it, and she made a good point. Like, everybody's different. One guy did 100-mile or in 100K, and he's cooked for the whole year. One guy did 650Ks, and he's still going strong. And it just kind of depends on the person,

and I think there's a psychological element to it as well, how old you are, et cetera, how hard the course was. So I just kind of learn as you go and figure it out. We see the same thing in triathlon, for sure, with different athletes being able to race back-to-back weekends or not. And I'm curious for both of you, how much do you feel like you have an inherent sense of how fresh you are, how recovered you are, versus you don't actually know sometimes until you're out there racing?

I think, speaking for myself, have a pretty good handle on it. And you always leave something in the back of your mind of like, you know what, I've had hard workouts that I felt like shit going into. and I performed well, and I've had races that I felt like shit and did okay. So I'm like going to leave it open in my mind that this could still go well, but signs are pointing too tired. Yeah. And I mean, that's a little bit of the nature of being a professional athlete. Sometimes you just, you have to take that gamble.

And every time you felt a little off, you didn't race, wouldn't race very often. Right. Paula, what about you? Do you feel like you, how accurate do you think is your internal gauge of how fresh or fatigued you are? Pretty accurate. But I don't think that if you're fatigued going into one race, it means your season's over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Generally, you can get out of a hole if you're in a hole or if you're tired from training.

I don't know. I'd feel like historically, October, November, I've raced really well. Like 70.3 worlds in 2022 or in October. And I like training at this time of year because it's not hot. the weather's nice. It's easy to get outside when it's like fall. I don't know. I've been training pretty well right now,

but I think by the time Qatar rolls around, I'll feel like having a bit of a hole. Once there's snow on the ground, even occasionally, that changes things a lot. Yeah, we actually have a question about that this week,

which I feel like is a great segue into our questions this week. We had really great questions this week. From listeners like you, I feel like that's the PBS. Viewers like you. I actually left quite a few out this week. I mean, not because they were bad, just because we had so many.

Yeah. You can submit your questions to the podcast at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. That's the same place, by the way, that triathlonlife.com where you can check out the new drop that's coming this week

and the, what do you call it, Eric, the fall refresh. What did you call it? Resupply. Reinforcements. Reinforcements is what you said. Yeah. at that triathlon life.com

slash podcast where you can also become a podcast supporter. We really appreciate that. That's what keeps this podcast going. I mean, the listeners and the podcast supporters and everyone who signed up for Team TTL, we really appreciate that so much. What an overwhelmingly awesome response we've had for that.

And Eric, is it official? Like all the orders are in and the manufacturing is in process? Yep. The process is. over and the fun now begins. I love it. We're getting everything made. We're going to be packing it up

and shipping it out. But it's a bit of a timeline since we've got to submit the order to Cicely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Good times ahead. Yeah, I cannot wait. Cannot wait to put that stuff on. I ordered some really, I ordered a lot of the stuff because I just want to wear it all. Okay. First question here

is from Wade. Hello, T-T-Lers. All spelled out phonetically, by the way. So T-E-T-E-E-E-E-L-L-E-E-E-L-E. E-R-S. My question is about what to wear in the pool when training. I'm old enough to remember that when I went to swim club, you wore speedos to train and race and do everything. Now, jammers seem to be the acceptable attire in the public lane sessions, except every time

I see the pro-men training, they're in speedos. Is there any reason behind this? What are the benefits of either? Thanks for all the great content. I did not know that jammers were in now. I thought jammers were still not cool, but maybe I'm wrong. Eric, I mean, you guys swim with fast people all the time. What do you notice?

No jammers. I think that this could be a bit geographic. It could be your pool. It could be a city. It could be, you know, whatever. Typically, yeah, jammers came into existence when I was in a group swimmer. When I first started swimming, they didn't even exist. And they came into existence.

And so some kids started wearing them and thought they were cool and some didn't. But generally speaking, I think if you show up to your swimming pool wearing a speedo, all the jammer people should be intimidated because you look serious. That's the way it is in my mind is that jammers are a little bit more recreational. And like when you graduate to speedo level, that's how you know you're for real. But I think that people are just like some people are more comfortable being a little more modest. I don't think there's anything wrong with wearing them. You know what's funny?

As you say that, I'm like, that makes sense, but I'm also like, no. I mean, you could also just wear like, you know, like pants. You could just wear like tear away pants while you ride your bike and be more modest than wearing spandex. Okay, that's not the same because it's obviously not the same. Brick and jammer is basically like a bike short. Yeah, no, I'm just, we're here to tell you that jammers are not.

Cool. Like if you want to be modest, that's fine. Not. But no one's going to look at you and be like, oh, wow. Look at that guy. Jammers are for like teenage preteen boys who are a little bit more self-conscious. Like I remember seeing more jammers when I was, you know, in swim club. Yeah.

And I think that's fine. We're just assuming that Wade is not a high school boy. Right. He's asking us what is cool. And this is what our opinion is that it's cool to our speedo. But we're not hating on anybody who wears a jammer. If you don't want a full-on skimpy Baywatch Speedo, is those box cut? That's what I wear.

So it's like, Orca has them. They're basically like kind of like shorts, but short shorts. Yeah. Box cut. They feel like there's a certain type of underwear style for women called boy shorts. Do you know what I'm talking about, Paula? Yeah. I feel like that's the shape of those.

They're like boy shorts. Yeah, I don't mind them. I can definitely find you a picture of Daniel Craig as James Bond wearing a box cut. Yes, I, exactly, exactly. So it is cool. Yeah, if James Bond can pull it off. Yeah, it's good enough for us. Wow.

I hope that wasn't, I hope we didn't flare up any tempers with that one. If that's like, if that is the extent of our controversial contest, I think we're doing okay. You're right. I think it's fine to have an opinion. That's right. Okay. Next question here is from Andrew. Hey, TTR crew, congrats on an action-packed year so far for all three of you and for TTR.

Then Andrew adds, how was the look for things where you can find them release still just this year? True. I mean, we were, Eric, I get strav. of things about like oh one year ago of when we were in golden yes in golden yes yes and literally it'll be soon it'll be um with heather in the desert geez so crazy we were but young boys yes yes that's right so long ago okay going on here with the majority of this season behind us but with a few things still to come what does success look like for each of you for the rest of the year race and performance but also not race-wise, personal, spiritual, et cetera.

What are you hoping to get out of the last few months of 2025? So obviously, Paula, you're racing. Still worlds and T-100, important races. Eric, you're still racing, a 50K, at least. But let's talk beyond that. Or in spite of that, are there things that you are particularly looking forward to or excited about tackling?

I feel like a lot of excitement and energy around TTL and the team right now. And since we brought on Jordan, who has been absolutely indispensable with the launching of the team, and he's helping me out with all things TTL logistics-wise, I kind of feel like I have, like I can do a lot of things that I've wanted to do for a long time

or things that people have suggested in. And I'm really excited to carry that momentum and also just start to experiment with some of the ideas we have for the team and do a good job of building that into like how I've envisioned it in my mind. Beyond that, after Kodiak, I felt like I want to do some sort of like not performance-based, but just like a spiritual walk-about sort of exercise activity of some sort, you know, whether it's like ride my bike all the way from Ben to the Oregon coast or just like do one of these like longer trail runs not as fast as I can but it was a route that I've been excited about

for a while or something that gets me excited like or meet up with you and we do like a credit card bike pack for like two days like oh my god something oh my god Eric that is like like that I love that idea okay I didn't remember I wasn't have to twist your arm with any of these ideas. But that just sounds like really peaceful and enjoyable to me if I can fit it in the rest of the year. Yeah, that sounds so fun. I, if we get to do, I don't know if we want to tease this yet, or if we've mentioned it, but our little dissents video. Yeah. That could be really fun to do too. Yeah. Something's like much more on the artistic and spiritual, less outcome-based side of the thing sounds just balancing. Yeah. Yeah, you guys can just be like,

your Buddhist, spiritualist people, and I got to go do three more big, giant ass races. So I have no fun. When's the last race? December 13. Oh, my gosh. That is so late. Yeah.

I'll be honest. I didn't say I'm doing that because I knew that was going to be Paula's response, and I do, of course, feel self-conscious talking about doing enjoyable things as she's like getting ready to go to Dubai. in guitar, but, you know, also, like, I don't know, is like, should I just, like, slam my head against the wall in, yeah, Eric, whatever in support? I don't know. It's, anyway, that, like,

we can dream, right? We can dream. We are dreamers. You guys can go on a two-day trip. Is this what we're allotted? Yes. Okay. Two-day, does I mean, like, five-day, though, like, if we just, like, oh, sorry, the flights, something with the trains. It's like two nights, or? And two nights of sleep. What if we don't sleep one of those nights? What if we ride through the night? One of those nights. Does that count as one of the nights? Okay. Next question here is from Ansi. Hello TTO, long time listener and watcher from early days here pre-COVID.

That really is, that's day one. I guess a real day-woner is like... Well, people that reach... Transition 4 days. Yes. That mentioned transition 4. And there are some of those people who still listen. If you go back far enough, you can see Eric's ex-girlfriend in his videos.

I don't know. I think most of those have been taken down off the internet. Really? By you? Yeah. You took them down? I mean, they're not like deleted, but they're hidden. Oh, interesting.

I just like, you know, it just, I would have left him up there just for like, it's part of my life story. But it's a little bit strange if you like watch Eric and Pollock camping in Patagonia. And the next thing that pops up is Eric and somebody. else from five years ago, but it was a popular video. Right, right. I don't know. I think that's funny. If you don't mind, then I guess. Paula is one of my, one of your many great traits is how you have zero percent jealousy

in you with in terms of Eric. Because I just inspire so much confidence. Well, he just, also, he loves you so much and it's so obvious. But still, some people have that and they still are super jealous. So, yeah, I think that's. a trait worth, worth admiring. Anyway, moving on here. This is from Onzi. One, do you mostly swim in the mornings and why? Is it mostly because it is the least annoying in terms of time efficiency? And if you do it first thing in the morning, you get it out of the way. Two, how many times per week do you swim

and what does usual training look like distance and how long is the main set per usually? And three, do you still go swimming with Eric? So let's start with one here. Do you swim in the mornings, and if so, why? Usually, yes, because I think it's just a nice routine to, like, get out of bed, have coffee, eat breakfast, and go without even thinking about it. I find that even if you're, like, tired and groggy, getting in the pool kind of jolts you awake, whereas it's harder sometimes to, like, get out for a run early if you feel tired. I think a...

If you truly feel bad, you can float in the water and, like, fake it a little more. to take 30 minutes to warm up? I think a component of it for me is there's a commute. So you have to drive to the pool and there's like, that's like an additional getting ready, but you have to leave at a certain time to meet people, you know, versus 90% of our bikes and runs we do from the house and it's so easy to just like continue, like continue procrastinating,

procrastinating, procrastinating. Of course. Okay. And do you, and do you, so you like that? Do you feel like it's physically the best for your swimming to do that? Not always. When I swim in the afternoon, I usually swim better. Another part of the swimming in the morning is just as we have gotten older.

Like it feels like you will loosen everything up a little bit with the swim. Like jumping out of bed and like going and running out the door within one hour of waking up is just not a thing that we do anymore. Right. Right, right, right. Okay, number two, how many times per week do you swim? and what does each swim usually look like? So let's start with the first part. Are you still swimming like four to five times per week?

What did you say? Four to five? Yeah. I would say five to six, but in each swim is like four K, five and a half on the high side. And the main sets, like, if it's a hard swim,

we'll usually do like two to two and a half K of hard swimming. And how many of those sessions are hard? three or four and the ones that are not hard are they like are they intentionally easy oh they're just longer okay yeah and then ones like easy drills

yeah so you're still like getting real swimming in at least four days a week yeah yeah for sure and then the final question Eric do you still go swimming I come for the easy drills Nice, smart, wise

I like that workout And then I like the one I don't know if Paula does this Just because I'm there or if this just happens to be Where there's like you do a hundred And like the last 25 is you you pick up the tempo a little bit Like six of those and then like a couple of 50s where you like build I'm like yeah that's that's the perfect amount of

Swimintensity Okay so now I'm curious because Eric when you were consistently racing 70.3s, you were one of the top American swimmers in triathlon. You were like top three American swimmers in triathlon, according to when I looked that up. And now you're swimming much less. And I think we'd all be curious to know

how your swimming has been affected in terms of your times, in terms of the feeling in the water, in terms of how fit you feel in the water, what parts of it feel like they're still there, what parts of it feel like they're maybe eroding away a little bit, I feel like the technique is still there. The strength to hold that technique for very long is not there.

But like I can swim at aerobic pace just as well. I feel like I can go out and just do a bunch of hundreds like in coming at 118 like I always did. But as soon as I have to go like a 110, that's like maximum effort versus I used to be able to do, you know, like 15 of those in a row. I feel like my sprint, if I'm just like trying to do a 25 as fast as I can, I feel like that's about the same. I was never like any good at sprinting. But yeah, just like that threshold, I guess is not there because I haven't, I haven't trained it. When I was prepping for the swim run, I was just doing like putting on the paddles and doing, you know, like maximum pace like 112 per 100 meters. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that seems kind of promising, actually.

I feel like if I wanted to race a 70.3, like, in six weeks or something, and I were to start, you know, I did like three swims a week and then four swims a week and then five swims a week and got like three weeks of five swims a weekend. I would be fine. I might not make like the lead pack currently, but I would make a chase pack. I would make like the main group. No problem. And then, you know, whatever from there. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Cool. Okay. Next question here is from Bree. Hi, Paul, Nick and Eric, recently found your podcast and have really enjoyed listening to all your insights and experiences. My question is, I live at 7,000 feet and in a canyon in Colorado that gets a lot of snow. In the nice months, I typically put my kids to bed and go for a run outside, my front door. Yes, I live in an amazing place where I have access to trail running right out my door. In the wintertime, it's not realistic to run outside, but I can snowshoe, skin outside, or row.

in my garage. Which would be the best option to substitute for running when I can't go to the gym to a treadmill? Bree. So I thought you guys would be the perfect people for this because this is a reality in Bend. You guys have a treadmill at home, but you also know a ton of fit people in Ben that probably do some of these things. My plan or hope, you know, we'll see how it actually works out for this winter, is to do a lot of uphill skinning. touring style. I've watched a lot of like ultra runners, you know, a lot of the podium from World Trail Championships were schemo athletes that converted to trail running. And uphill is a thing

that I really need to work on if I'm going to be actually competing at UTMB next year. So conveniently for me doing the skinning and the amount of vert that is involved is is a really good option. God, it feels like that could translate so directly to what you're doing. It does. Yeah. And you don't have to worry about blowing up your legs on the downhill because you're skiing instead of running down. Right. It's a big time commitment. That's the only drawback of like driving to the mountain and doing it. But I think that's good. I don't know what, I actually don't know what snowshoe running is like. Like if that's applicable. Well, Jackie is freaking national champion. Well, there you go. Yeah. I think you have to get specific snowshoes that are meant for running.

Yeah. That makes sense. So if you were a triathlet, what would you recommend here? If you were racing just triathlon, not worrying about running straight up a mountain. I'm assuming that the snowshoing is also going to be hilly where she's at. So maybe it doesn't make that big of a difference. But let's say you could run flat, snowshoe running. Maybe, yeah, maybe I would lean into that a little bit more than the skinning.

But I think we've kind of talked about this on the podcast before. Like the winter, do what you can. Don't burn a ton of matches. Like if you're psyched to ride the trainer or run on the treadmill, go for it. But if your heart pulls you more towards skinning and snowshoe running, you're just kind of building an aerobic base at that point. Yeah, cool. Okay.

Next one here's from Jeremy. What's up, TTL homies? What's a good way to wash a hat without ruining it? I love my TTL hat, but wow, does it get ripe after some long runs here in Phoenix? I've washed it several times, and now I'm sad to report it no longer is holding its shape and will be retired to the wall of honor and displayed forever among its many brave friends

from years of training. Love the pod, love the squad. Thanks for the many, many, many great episodes where I continue to be inspired, learn a lot, and laugh even more, Jeremy. So I feel like each one of us maybe has a... I think we should share what we do with our TTL hats. Bring it in the shower.

Don't put it in the washing machine, please. Unless it's like only embroidered, like you just don't want to mess with that. Yeah, I bring it in the shower every time now. Yeah. Did I tell you to do that? I've been doing that for a long time.

I think you told me to do that many, many years ago and I've been doing it since. Yeah, I just bring it in and it rinses all the sweat off and everything and then hang it up in there and it dries and come grab it next day. Yeah, exactly. And sometimes if they get really bad,

I will throw them in the wash, but maybe like once every six months, I also have a rotation of hats. that work with different outfits. I mean, at the end of the day, like a hat as much as we would want them to like last for 10 years. Like you're bumping up against the limits of the fabric

and anti-microbialness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next one here is from Rachel. It's kind of a long one, but it's good one. What up Tripod. I've been catching up on past pod episodes and in the pre-SanFranti 100 boys chat, Eric talked about training and racing in locations

that brought up memories of past experiences, good and bad. It got me thinking about my 2026 race plan and my feelings and therefore how to best prepare. I'm signed up for Montrein Blonde 70.3, a race I took part in in 2017 and 2018, both times I had not so positive experiences, a blowout flat and gear issues in 2017, witnessed to a bad bike crash and sacrificing 15 minutes to provide first aid in 2018. Dang. For 2026, I'm taking it. attitude of hopefully, finally conquering the course to the best of my abilities on the day,

and I'm putting into place strategies to maximize my physical preparation. Are there any tips you can think of for how to approach a race where you've had negative experiences? Do you try to compartmentalize each experience, visualize an ideal scenario of future experiences? Grateful for any thoughts you have on the mental and emotional side of things. Thanks for the entertainment, education, and everything else you do for the community. looking forward to rocking the team TTL gear at Tram Blant. Rachel.

So, Eric, I can think of several races where this might have been the case for you. Is this something you think about or intentionally try to twist in your head in some way? I think, like my brain is kind of splitting this question or these thoughts into like two different categories. one being like specific course conditions or you know the type of course um elevation etc heat you know that could have contributed to you having a poor race there that's like one category

and the other category is yeah you got a flat or you dropped a water bottle and got disqualified or like whatever the thing is and if it's stuff that's like course issues and heat and i would really look at and go like are these things that i can actually change or are my just not good at this, you know, and, like, if there's things that you can work on, then work on that and take confidence in that you have prepped as well as you can to overcome whatever the, you know, shortcoming was in the previous races. If it's, or just don't do the race and say, I'm going to do something else that suits me a little bit better. If it's the other thing, I think it's very easy to say, like, you don't just have bad juju where you get flasked. That's what I was going to say.

It's like, do you believe that you're cursed or something, you know? Yeah. Please, please just, you know, I think you can you can get around that one. Like I don't just have bad luck at this course. This course isn't like the gods have smiled poorly upon me when I go to St. George. And you can let that one go and focus on the process, focus on the things that you can control to have a good race.

Okay, so let's play devil's advocate here and say, because here for Rachel, it does seem like these are independent from the course, these things that happened. Yeah. So let's say there is something inherent about the course. Maybe it's the amount of elevation gain. Maybe it's altitude.

Maybe it's heat. Maybe it's cold. Is there something that you, for example, and I mean, you've had this now with altitude twice. But now you know for sure. If you had to do a race at altitude now, for example, for some reason, what would you do mentally to not have this fear around it and to still feel positive about it? Oh, I get an altitude tent.

You would take the steps to be better prepared for the thing. Yeah, that's that I wouldn't just like try to convince myself that next time is going to be the time that I magically do well at altitude. I would take every step necessary if I had to do a race at elevation to prepare for it as best as I could. Right. And Paula, what about you about revisiting a race where you had a bad experience? How much of that paints your mood and stoke going. into a race. I don't know.

I don't think it really affects it that much. I can say that Paula gets excited about St. George because she's had good experiences there. Yeah, I think it works the opposite way. If I've had good races, I get happy for it. But I don't know. I haven't had that many races where it's just been like such a horrible experience that I dread the return.

I think of your Oceanside from a few years ago and then you came back to next year. is definitely one of them. But then you came back in one. So it's, it's, I mean, for some reason, I always think, like, it's going to be better this time. Yeah, right. But I think that's a positive, that's a, that's just an overall good way to enter that entire process. Yeah. And you remember, like, the good things about it. So, okay, maybe I had a bad race at Oceanside a couple times. But in general, the weekend was fun. Yeah, right. You know. lives were good. And also, it's like to a degree we have to go to Oceanside. And then that's a little bit what I was getting at. Like, do you have to do Tron Blant? Like, if you don't have to, I understand this person, like, they really want to go have, like, you know, Nick in Wisconsin, like, vengeance upon the course and feel like they can close that chapter.

So the yes to that. But also, if you don't have to do it, like, pick another race that you're excited about. Life's short. That's right. Life is short. Do a swim run. You guys are so annoying. Yeah, I'm not even, I haven't even done it yet.

You know, there's a good chance. I will despise it, but we'll see. I was thinking about it while I was swimming yesterday. I'm like, oh, get out of the water and then run with wet shoes. There's 0% chance that you're going to hate it. Yeah, no, no. You're going to be like so zen and your naturey place. Just don't do one where it's like in a freezing cold location or something.

You're going to have great time. Right, right. Now, I think they seem to be in cool, always in cool places, the ones that we've seen. Yeah. Yeah, Lars does a great job. Nice. Okay. Next question here is from Joe. Aloha TTTL crew. A couple quick questions. Eric, how do you set up your watch for the swim run race? Do you typically... Oh, God. Yeah. Oops. Did you have to manually switch between each leg or does it... I guess I should say that I'm really shooting to have this swim run video come out on Wednesday the day before this podcast comes out. I actually thought this was a great question. I was curious as well. Okay. How do I set up my watch for

So basically, the easy version of this question is, is there a swim run mode native on your watch? Or did you have to do something else? I think we talked about this, Nick. I don't have a swim run function on my watch. I think we discovered the garment. Some garments do. Really? Yeah.

Of course. Oh my gosh. We have not tested this. So I don't go running out and buying a garment just for the swim run function because I don't know how well it works. Even for my Iron Man, I did the automatic triathlon mode, which I did. tested in a race before that where I started the watch when I started the race and I stopped the watch when I stopped the race and everything else was done by itself. Eric Gray, so I feel confident the swimming and the running are so different from each other as far

as what the watch is sensing that I think it's really easy to separate the two from each other. Okay. So if you are comfortable just weighing it like myself, I just created a trail run. And every time I jumped in the water, I hit. lap just for my own entertainment. But I was following a course that I had loaded on there. And I swim across the lake. The least of my concerns during the swim run were what pace am I doing while I'm swimming with shoes, a giant buoy, and paddles.

And two kickboards for paddles. And trying to look across this lake to see this little buoy on the other side. I was much more concerned with the... Actually, that said, I did at one point in time. I was really uncertain. and I flipped over onto my back and looked at the map on my watch to make sure that I was still on the track

going across the lake. And then I used it occasionally to like route find while running. But the pace is like you got to understand like these courses are so all over the place. Like the pace is just, it's just almost irrelevant.

I don't think the person's worried about their pace. I think they're asking in order to record the swim run on Strava. on your training peak, whatever. Yeah, that's what I did. It's not so you can see how fast per hundred you were going. Okay. I would like to take this moment, though, however,

I know some people that work at Strava listen to this podcast. This is not a new request, but the fact that we still, in the year of our Lord 2025, do not have a triathlon type of activity is unbelievable. Figure out a way to make it work. they shouldn't pop up as a separate swim, separate transition one, separate bike, separate transition two, separate run.

We need to have some way that all of these things fit neatly together when someone does a race, and I think the same can be said for swim run, the same can be said for duathlon, and of course our beloved aqua bikers that listen to this podcast, but the fact that Strava still doesn't have this,

I think is shameful. Okay, that's it, I'm done. I don't know, sounds kind of lame. No, it needs to be done. I'm livid about it still. I mean, it would be cool if you're this much of a data person, which like most triathletes are, I'll admit. But if you're like, Nick did 70.3 Oceanside and you click on it and there's like, boom, like your swim is sort of separated out and your bike separated out. And the essay according to each activity is they'll sort it out.

And the pictures for each activity are sorted out neatly. Yeah. It's like a photo album. Right. Or like a. a book. It's like a file tree. It's an experience. I agree with you, Nick.

I think that's, I don't think it's shameful. It doesn't exist, but it's a good idea. I mean, it still is. So big at this point. But it is so niche, dude. Is triathlon that niche? I don't know. Racing, a triathlon, this is specific to a triathlon race.

That's why I'm saying that's like kind of niche. They have kayak activity, you know? They have so many activity types. Inline skate. You know, I mean, you're right. It is niche. And there's obviously clearly a bias. We're here on a triathlon podcast.

But I feel confident that the brilliant minds at Strava's engineer team can tackle this and do a good job at it. Man, I just think there's a lot of other things that can be fixed. Yeah, yeah. Okay, fair enough. And then Joe also says, Hope Flynn's healing up well and can't wait to cheer on Paula and Kona, 26. Thanks, Joe.

Same. You know what? You know what? Somebody could do very easily for this, just because I've seen, just because I've seen Danny who designed our website do it. Somebody could write a program that just like uses Strava's API very easily to just like display this in exactly the way that you're hoping, Nick.

But it would be a third part. thing. Yeah, no. Except, you know, that Strava now, their API is not available anymore. Remember that whole thing? Everyone, welcome to the deep, deep weeds.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. You're right, you're right. Okay, well, let's move on here. To Martin's question. This is very interesting how you formated this, Martin. It's confusing my brain. But, hi, Team TCL.

I listened to a recent podcast where Paula talked about adding speed sets into workouts to increase overall speed. I'm an O-A-O-A-OS, which is an old adult onset swimmer, and I'm trying my best to get quicker. My maybe-stupid question is, what makes a speed set workout while keeping form? Is it pulling harder in the stroke, increasing the cadence, kicking more, a combination? My current swim is a mix of warm-up, catch, and rotation drills.

Then I've added speed sets and then cool down. Just not sure I'm doing it right. would appreciate your thoughts. By the way, just completed my first full Ironman at age 60 in Copenhagen. Oh, damn. Martin. Nice, Martin. Congratulations.

Wow. Bravo. So, what does make a speed set workout? Like, how does your swim stroke change? How does your stroke change? Yes. I think all of the above that he said, you're kicking harder, you're pulling harder, your stroke rate goes up.

And it feels like you're going to Definitely breathing harder Yeah I wonder if this is incorrect But I notice in myself when I'm doing these That my I stiffen my whole body more I feel more

I try to be a little more taught Throughout And I'm a little more loosey-goosey when I'm doing I mean I know that's not great Like more relaxed More relaxed Yeah Yeah I think I'd say that's a factor

you're like engaging more muscles, your core is more engaged. Like, I think when I'm sprinting, maybe this is just because I'm not an adult onset swimmer. I don't necessarily think about these things. It's like if someone tells you to sprint down the street running. Run faster. You're not going to think about what you're doing. Driving your leg higher and really sit. Yeah.

Increase your cadence. You're going to push off the ground harder. You're going to pump your arms harder. You're going to lean forward more. So it's a bit intuitive. Like, I think that even for swimming, even for somebody's new to swimming, overthinking it can be a bit dangerous. But I do appreciate how he's like wondering this because you don't want to just spin your arms faster and not move quicker. You want to actually be like catching water as you increase your cadence and, you know, kicking more effectively so your propulsion is quicker.

So swimming is a lot is very technical, obviously. You can't just try harder. Yeah. I'll just, I'll say what I think about when I'm doing a sprint is I think about pressing your chest down into the water. So you're like almost like your sternum, you're thinking about putting a little bit of pressure there. This is just to try to get your legs up essentially and have a good body position.

And then I think about like a really quick and fast. finish of the stroke, like really, like whipping my hand out of the water and back to like get my turnover up that way while actually, you know, finishing my stroke properly. Just those two cues, like you can't think about too many things when you're trying to do an activity fast, but those two cues are good for me. Yeah, that's a good point because I think when a lot of people increase their stroke rate, they do shorten their stroke and don't finish at their hip like Eric's talking about, which essentially cuts out like half of your pull just because you feel like you've got to get your arm back to the front as quick as you can

but you're actually going to not go as fast because you're missing that last bit. Not to throw Jackson Laundra under the bus and I know he does not listen to this podcast, but do you remember that video that he posted of himself when he was like finishing a stroke above his hip? Yes, I have seen this. Just on one side. It was crazy and you know he's obviously an amazing athlete but still that was so shocking to see

and he was also surprised that's why he posted it. Yeah. If you can get someone to film me underwater that's a good way to get better. That's the most insane thing about swimming like even for Paula and I

you have an idea in your mind how you look and it's just like somewhere between like Michael Phelps and Katie Ledecky is about what you think you look like and then you see a video and it's like

please turn that off I don't need to know. But one last one last thing is I think also a sprint sets. As you're learning it, it's okay to take like shorter, like do 25s or 50s with some rest so you can push off again

and have good form. Very important. Yeah, cool. Okay, and our last question here is from Jared. Hi, TTL gang. It has become a bit of a tradition of mine after races to find the local dive bar and have a fatty burger and fries

with an ice cold beer to celebrate the accomplishment. It's silly, but it's a treat I really look forward to. I'm curious if you all have any post-race cravings or celebrations, or is this an age-grouper phenomenon? Love the show. Keep up the great content. Jared. Jared, it's definitely not an age-grouper phenomenon. I feel like we have traditions for each different race.

You are an age-grouper. Don't remember that. No, I'm talking about when you guys race. Oh, and us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I specifically am thinking about like in Oceanside, we go to the vegan place in St. George, we get the Peruvian chicken, you know, this kind of these traditions things. Yeah. No, I think it's every... No, I know I'm an age ripper, please. I represent the people. I'm just kidding, Nick. I'm just kidding. You did an Iron Man.

Yeah, as an age grouper, of course. But anyway, so go ahead, guys. What do you feel like is your post-race food tradition? Exactly what you said, Nick. It's like dependent on where we are. but definitely nothing really that sweet because we had so much sweets in the day usually it's like a salty thing I mean at Oceanside there is that donut shop

that's right near the finish line Oh that's right We do that immediately after That's true Sometimes the people who didn't race Partake more than the people who did race But you know whatever It's a group activity

Oh yeah this last year Paula barely had any I remember Yeah Yeah you know what We shouldered the load didn't we We did Yeah, I often feel really sick after a race, so I don't even really want food. And then by the time dinner rolls around, I'm really hungry and want something like a burger, like you said.

But it's not even like an indulgent thing. It's just like the easiest way to replenish calories. It sounds good. This is the struggle of the supporter that I have discovered. Paula finishes racing, and I realize I haven't eaten. literally anything since we woke up at like 3 a.m. And I had a little cereal. And I'm dying of starvation.

But her stomach's all jacked up from gels. And I'm like, man, all I want to do right now is I have a huge meal. But I need to wait like two more hours until her stomach is not hurting so that we can have a huge meal together. So I just, oh, man, it's... You can have my post-race food. Yeah. But then I'm not hungry when she's ready to go, just like go crazy at a cool restaurant. And, oh, man, it's just, you know, it's a struggle.

I think it's fun to find a... You've got to treat yourself. Well, Paula, what about Qatar? Like, do you remember? I imagine you guys had some lavish meals there. I'd never been to Qatar. Dubai? Dubai, sorry, yes.

Post race in Dubai? No, we finished so late that day. Oh, because you started in the middle of the day. Yeah, and I was just trying to find, rebook my flight to get home at ASAP because I was so sad. Yeah. Great. I'm not lying. But that hotel was so nice

and the highlight was the breakfast. So I woke up the next morning after realizing it was way too expensive to change my flights and just had a really good breakfast at that hotel. Yeah. I actually hung out with Chelsea Sedaro. Yeah, actually, that's a good point.

Like the breakfasts sometimes, like I look more forward to the breakfast. Yeah, like going to a dive breakfast place. Oh, like a diner or something. Yeah. Yeah, in like our normal lives, we'll go out to eat a couple times, like three times a week, maybe or something. But we never go out to breakfast and like having someone prepare you a breakfast feels like the ultimate indulgence. Yeah, try that next time.

That's fun. Yep. And you know what? If you do an Iron Man and you finish at midnight, the breakfast really is the next real meal you're going to have anyway. That's true. Definitely go straight to the bar, stay up all night long and then breakfast is your next meal. Air of the dog. I mean, I love that.

I love our post-race meals wherever they are. It's my favorite part of racing. The post-race food. And we're not talking about the Iron Man post-race food, people. I don't know if this is worth mentioning, but have you guys noticed there's such a wide range of quality and Iron Man provided post-race foods? Sometimes it's like...

Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's really good. And sometimes it's like a banana. and like a slice of pizza or something. I wonder like what degree, to what degree you can chalk up this to, like, franchise races versus Ironman created.

Right. You know, races. Yeah. But then still somebody's just got to take the reins on that. I feel like that, that cares. Yeah.

There's so many freaking races. Like they can't have the same dialed crew. Yeah, yeah. Do even half of them. Of course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, well, we promised an episode this week, thick with questions, and that's exactly what we delivered. We had questions, we had answers. Paula, I feel like you warned that you would not be able to participate and instead you soldiered on and gave us the best of yourself. That's an idea for the podcast. We appreciate that. We appreciate that. Okay, so to recap, guys, look out for the midweek drop next week. Eric, can we say what it's called or is that still a secret?

Or is that still, is that not decided? Well, I mean, it's written on the hat, I think. It is on the hat and I have teased it. Yeah, sure. We can say it. If you've made it this far on the podcast and you're still here, you get a know. Multi-sport energy supply. Love it.

Just let that thing into your brain all the possible meanings. Yeah. What does it mean to you, Eric? It is what TTL is. We are here to provide energy and excitement and stoke and community to people who are excited about multi-sport, trathlons, swim run, literally anything that fits under the multi-sport banner. My hope and dream is that when somebody is down

and feeling like they don't have the motivation to go out or they've had a hard day, they can just go click on any of the things that we put out and they will be a little bit better off afterwards. Energy supply. Can't think of it ending any better than that. I'll talk to you next week. Bye. Bye, guys.