That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon vs road bike position, how a taper should feel, and more!

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

This week, Paula is in Portland, OR for the On Athlete Summit, Nick and Eric are trail running in the Front Range Mountains in Colorado shooting a scene from their film. As usual, we got to chat about triathlon via listener-submitted questions. This week we talked about: How similar Road and TT bike positions should be.Are all high end bike hubs loud? How to order the right size wetsuitTaper, how to do it, why to do it, and how it should feelVolume vs intensity when training in extreme heatHow much testing does something need before it feels okay to use in a raceA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Larkner. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldstone. And this is, uh, this is going to be an interesting one for us. Nick and I are actually both in the same place right now. And Paula is the one who is not with us. Normally, Paula and I, who live together and are married and are both professional triathletes are looking at one computer screen and talking to Nick and Nick is the one that's lagging. But now our little tripod situation has been like rotated just slightly. And, um, yeah, how does it feel? It feels good, actually. Flynn is snuggling me. I am at Eric's parents' house in Portland. And I was just at the On Athlete Summit for two days, meeting a lot of really fast people. I had dinner with Helen O'Berry last night. If you don't know who she is, then stop listening to this podcast and go look it out. What's a book? Read the internet. So yeah, I've had a couple of really cool days, so I don't really miss you guys. Wait. Can you tell us more about the on-ethical? some at that, I feel like that's cool. You kind of just brushed over it. Secret things? It's super cool. It's, um, it basically, they host one in Europe and one in the U.S. And on in the U.S. is based in Portland. So their offices are here. Really easy for me to get two from Bend, three hour drive. And basically it's a way for all of the OAC, the onathletic club

athletes and the trail runners and the triathletes and the independently sponsored runners to all come together and meet one another, get to know face to face, the people that we email all year with product testing and shoe testing and people whose names we know, but not necessarily faces. And just really big, good, I don't know, like on community building, I now feel more like I'm a part of this team. And when I go and watch the OAC athletes at a track meet online or something or in Paris, I feel like I know them because I do now. So it's really cool.

And I thought it was a super unique experience. Chelsea Sadar was there. So her and I were the only triathletes. And a lot of the runners already know each other, but it was cool for me to be able to see these people I really look up to in the running world and talk to them. So we had a few seminars where we got to see all of like the products for the next year or two, what the athlete kits look like next year. Obviously, as triathletes, we don't necessarily race in the team kits.

but we did get to do like headshots and pictures with the kit and see the color ways for next year. And I get really excited about that stuff. And then presentations just not on as a company and the insane growth that it's going through right now and what their goals are for the future. So I was so captivated by the whole thing the whole time and they took really nice care of us. So it was fun. That's awesome. It feels really like I'm a professional athlete when I go to a thing like that. No, now. Now it feels like it.

It really hits home. Yeah. Like I feel so lucky to be part of that brand. And they truly care about the athletes and this summit was just proof of that. Like they are assembling us all. They don't have to do this.

Yeah, that's an outrageous amount of money put up to make that whole thing happen beyond like they're just paying athletes for the contract and everything. Finances and resources and a bunch of people flew in from Zurich who are the, you know, big people at on who are putting together all of our products and stuff every year. So a lot of people traveled really far to make this happen. And there was really no

agenda, no like, well, there was an agenda obviously outlining what we were talking about. But the only goal was build community, meet new people and feel like you're part of this family. So that was accomplished, I think, really well. Awesome. Yeah. But you saw some behind the scenes plans for future products, which I personally get excited about. I'm sure you're not allowed to talk about them, but are you allowed to talk about you being excited about them? Yeah, I love that stuff. I love seeing where the footwear is going. And we had a couple of like smaller grouped discussions where we split up and we talked about the footwear and our feedback on it to the people that literally make the shoes. So it's really like touches home and

makes a difference and on i think values so much athlete feedback because they know that we're the ones that put the products through the ultimate test and wear them the most and you know performances on the line so they really value our feedback and they really get it and as much as they're very fashion forward and their clothing and apparel they're also extremely athlete and performance focused and that just shows with what they brought us there to do and then they won on one eight medals in Paris. So just like really cool to have like yeah, be a part of a brand that really cares about racing fast as well. But I will say 2025 and six, there seems to be a big push in the trail world. New trail shoes, good trail team, cool trail outfits. They recognize that

that's a really growing thing rapidly across the world. So I think there's going to be some cool stuff coming out in the next two or three years. I'm really hopeful that I get the plus one on the product testing. Happy to help. Just take one for the team and help test some shoes. It was really interesting what they were saying about the race shoes for trail because you can't just take a carbon fiber plate and put it in a trail shoe because it's so unflexible that it forces you on your toes too much when you're climbing up a hill.

So you get really sore calves. So there's like a very thought out way to put these plates in trail shoes that are very specific to that sport and the elevation gain and the descending. Different compounds, not necessarily carbon fiber, which is really stiff. So hearing the guys talk about this who are so passionate and nerdy about all this stuff was like infectious. You know, you're like, oh my gosh, now I'm excited about it. So you could tell they just love what they do. And everyone who presented, like the numbers guy who's involved in. growing the brand is so into that and the footwear people are so into that and it comes across

that way when they're presenting. So I could have listened to it for a week. It was so interesting. That is the best. Like a room full of people. Just super excited about what they do is, oh, it gets you excited. Yeah. You just, like, you're going to be writing high for a week. And a group of athletes who are so receptive to it. Like, we want to know about it. We really care. And we, we're not like a bunch of of college kids and falling asleep, you know, we're like into it. So. Do you feel like the world in general is becoming more into trail running? Both of you, I'm kind of curious, if you've seen that. For sure.

It's hard to know if it is or if like Eric's just more into it, so I feel more aware of it. Right. But UTMB's always been a big thing. Iron Man bought a bunch of races, right? Like, I guess it is growing, but it's not like it's new this year. I think it's been like a slow build. Yeah, I just, I think it's. it's like growing at a much quicker pace than it ever has before as evidenced by the amount of

companies that are investing into it, the amount of new like small run brands that are coming out. And like we can watch so many of these 100 mile races thanks to like Dylan Bowman in his live broadcast, which I feel like we would have been a little bit aware of if that was happening all the time beforehand. That's true. We're pretty big fans of endurance sports in general, you know. Yeah, I think it that's true. Eric, it is growing, and just the fact that there was like six or seven sponsored trail runners

at this athlete summit. I don't know if that would have been the case like five years ago, having professionally sponsored trail runners who are paid to do that. That's a relatively new thing, I think. Do we think this could coincide at all with COVID? Because that's when I started trail running. I thought, okay, away from all the people, go into the trails. And it's like, wait a second.

This is amazing. In general, became more popular. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Probably accelerated, like many things, accelerated by COVID. Yeah. Well, speaking of trail, Eric, how many trail miles did you do on foot today? Do you know? I don't actually know miles, but I did something like 32K. Yeah. So just like 10K short of a marathon, but all above 10,000 feet. A lot of 12,000. Yeah. I don't know. I've been hanging out with pro trail runners all week, so that doesn't even sound that oppressive to me.

Oh, we're weak. 30K? Okay. Big deal. What are you sick? It was an epic day for us, I should say. Nick and I, to like explain what's going on here, Nick and I are both outside of Golden Colorado is like the nearest big city, but we went into the mountains to stay at my cousin Luke's cabin in the Colorado mountains.

We were sleeping at about, I think it's like 10,500 feet. It's just under 10,000. Okay, right about 10,000 feet. And then we're shooting the next scene in our film. And this scene is all around. Basically, my cousin has a couple of electric dirt bikes. We're riding those up to the Colorado. Alpine tundra.

Alpine tundra. Yeah, we're learning a lot of new terms. And running around up there. And it's just, it's absolutely magical. It reminds me, it's a little bit like when I was running in the Alps where you can like legitimately go up and into the mountains. mountains here and look at spines and ridge lines and just there's probably a trail on it and you can get over there and do these crazy loops and traverses and it's i mean just like another experience where

you're like oh wow i thought i really fully understood what running was or i thought i really understood what this you know what a sport of a multi sport or just endurance what it was the options were out there and now i just like opened up an completely new universe and my brain's exploding with like new thoughts and ideas. Something that I think could be really interesting for the listeners is we've had Elise on the podcast before, who's Eric's sister, who is an ultra-trail runner, ultra-runner, and she has done very well at many races. And now I've met now Eric's cousin, Luke, who just is also an incredible endurance athlete.

He competed in this crazy challenge called the Leadman. A lead man challenge, which is what? Do you remember? Yeah, if you're aware of Leadville. So it's like basically five races that are all Leadville-esque. So you have to complete the Leadville 100-mile mountain bike race. You have to complete the Leadville Trail Marathon. I think like a couple weeks before that you have to do the Trail Marathon.

And then you do the Leadville 100-mile mountain bike race. And the next day you do the Leadville 10K. Right. And then a week later. the Leadville 100 mile run and the lowest cumulative time wins. So Luke actually got third

in that which... It's amazing. It's incredible. It's incredible. Seems borderline impossible to not be injured, let alone just like complete it. And I'd like to add that he was not a runner.

He did play soccer in college, but he's not a runner. He's a mountain biker. He took up running how long before this? He just kind of like threw it in because he's like, yeah, lead man, that's how I get to do this. the Leadville 100

Mountain Bike Race. Yeah, if you do the lead man challenge, you don't have to get into the lottery for Leadville. So, like, all right, well, this is a guaranteed way to be able to do it. So it's been crazy running and riding with you guys. I'm like, there's something in the Lagerstrom DNA here that

is kind of strange that allows them to do this crazy stuff. Yeah. It's been an incredible experience so far. We've got a couple days left. But this morning, we filmed a bunch, and then we came home and we had some lunch, and then Nick and I

I went out for magical one of the most beautiful magical sunset trail runs while Luke had to go into town for a couple of things and now we're

exhausted and doing the podcast and we're going to get back out there tomorrow and we're going to finish up this film and I mean I just each night we're sitting down and watching the footage from it and it's just it's like such a cool experience

and it's so so beautiful and unlike anything else we've ever shot. Yeah it's so step. above anything else we've ever done for sure. At least one step above. Well, that's what we try to do every time we pick up the camera, if possible. That concludes all of the exciting things for the week, what's going on, what we're doing. And we can do some questions now. Yes, this is going to be an abbreviated podcast episode because we have been outdoors all day. Paula has been busy all day. We are tired and we are on, Paula's recording into our iPhone.

We're recording into Lavalier mics, basically. So we're going to go right into questions. We're questions here. These questions are submitted by the listeners. Thank you so much to our listeners who submit questions. You can submit your own question at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast where you can also become a podcast supporter and we absolutely adore our podcast supporters. It's literally the only reason we're recording this particular podcast. For the kids. For the kids. Yes. Okay. First question here is from Alex. Hey, day one are here. Absolutely loved Eric's latest video. I have a question regarding bike fit. Mainly if my main priority is triathlon, but I do a large amount of riding on my road bike,

but it makes sense to try and mimic my riding position from my canyon speed max to my canyon ultimate. I know that Paula does a large amount of riding under tarmac. Does she have the saddle position set up to closely mirror her shiv? I currently have my road bike saddle pushed all the way forward so that I engage similar muscles to my tri-bike, but it makes me feel crunched up and close to my cockpit. Do you feel that this matters, or should I adjust my road bike to have more of a traditional road bike fit. Good luck in Vegas. I work in Michigan, but I'm employed at Caesars,

which is like, I think Caesar's Palace in Vegas, was just in Vegas for quarterly planning trip and wish we could have scheduled it two weeks later. Thanks, Alex. So, you're going to hook us up with a stay at the Caesar? Oh my God. Yeah, Alex, hook us up with a stay at the Caesar.

We'll stay an extra day in Vegas. Post-race party. Yeah, yeah. That would be great. Maybe he's not that kind of a role, but if you are, a slide into our DMs. He's got to know somebody who's in that kind of a role.

Jeff, come on, Alex. Come on. I love a free hotel, guys. Of course we do. A free, beautiful hotel. Yeah, that would be a Rona. Free is not the only stipulation. Okay, so I remember I did this when I got my road bike.

I pushed my saddle forward on the road bike so that I could kind of pretend, engage some of the same muscles as my triathlon bike. But what do you guys think about this? Does this even make sense since your position? ends up being so different. I mean, it's like a logical thing that a lot of people come to, for sure. So it's not an unreasonable thing to end up at, but I do think you're sort of giving away what is good about a road bike.

And I think, you know, Paula can say her thing, but I think we're believers in mixing up stimulus and getting a lot of different muscles activated and involved. Well, for example, I only brought my road bike here to Portland, and I've done two hard, long rides this week on my road bike. With Vegas coming up, I probably should have brought my TT bike, but I only had a TT bike in Europe for a month and I just have missed my road bike so much. And my watts are higher, my happiness is higher, my effort is lower. I just am so happy on that bike. I love it so much. And I think the fitness transfers over. I'm comfortable enough on my TT bag. I know how to ride it. I spent so much time on it that I'm not as concerned with getting

comfy on it. So now I'm kind of just choosing what I'm motivated to get out on. And I think my TT bike is set up kind of like a road bike, right, Eric? Like I don't have a slammed forward seat. Yeah. You're not in like a super extreme hanging off the front of your nose of your saddle, eight inches in front of the bottom bracket. You have a lot more hip, a glute engagement than many triathletes would. Yeah. So for example, when I'm sitting up on my TT bike and holding the base bar, I don't feel like it's. too much different from my tarmac. Yeah, and that's a little bit of a result of having to fit inside of the UCI regulations for that type of racing.

And also just you're more comfortable. I remember back in the day Maca, Chris McCormack being like a big proponent of having a little bit further back saddle position. He wanted to engage his glutes. He's like, I've got glutes. I'm going to use them instead of just like I'm going to lean all into the quads. Yeah. Like slam my saddle forward. But I think like artificially modifying your road bike fit.

to match your TT bike fit is not always a great solution. I think you should just be comfortable on both and you're getting a good workout. Yeah, and the whole thing with a TT bike is your entire hip angle and your hips and everything are like leaned forward more, you're

more hunched over. So I think just slamming your seat forward on a road bike is yes, going to cause you to be a little bit more crunched up. You'd have to put on a much longer stem. You'd do a whole bunch of things beyond just moving the saddle forward to get it to the point of where you're like hip angle and everything is in the same position and relative to the bottom bracket and all.

So just ride the road bike. Enjoy riding the road bike. If you want to do a good job at this, we're going to say what we always say and go get a fit from a professional fitter. Get a TT bike fit and a road bike fit from them. Yeah. The concern I would have is that this person would set this up very close to their TT bike and then think they're checking the box of getting comfortable on the TT bike.

instead like no you just ride the TT bike if you want to do that. Just ride a bike. Ride your damn bike. It doesn't matter which one. There you go Alex. Ride your damn bike doesn't matter which one. The only way to get better at biking is to ride a bike, any bike. Okay, wonderful.

You heard it here. Next question here is from Sean from Michigan. Hey, supporter of the pod and everything TTL, thank you so much, Sean. My nine-year-old always asked is Paula racing when she wakes up to me watching races. That's so cute. That is cute. Quick question.

Why are high-end bike hubs so much noisier when coasting? Is there a mechanical reason or is it just a flex? Also, can a hub be both quiet and fast? So we're going to ask Eric this question because... Yeah, good. I need to know this. It does seem like the more expensive the bike, the more obnoxious the free hub sound. No, isn't it a wheel-related thing?

A lot of my bikes don't make the free hub sound. And Eric's due, and it drives me crazy when I'm trying hard, and he's sitting behind me with that clicking noise going on. I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with the relative purchase price of the wheels. There are just certain wheel companies that have louder hubs than others. And Zip currently is making loud hubs. They haven't always, but I think this is probably a big part of why people are associating expensive wheels. It's just a lot of triathletes get Zip wheels.

that's kind of the most popular triathlon brand. The first wheel company, to my knowledge, that really made a thing out of Loud Hubbs was Chris King. And like their entire thing was the Chris King buzz. And it was like a bumblebee, and it was super cool and all the bros wanted it. And so a lot of people would build Chris King hubs into super high-end rims.

That could be another component. And then that probably just set a new standard for the industry where they're like, oh, I guess we don't have to try to make these quiet or whatever, but it's not like a bar. byproduct of having more pals and engagement points. It's just trying to help me. Why do I have a few zips that don't make a noise? They're just older.

They're just a different generation. And I honestly don't know exactly what it is that causes a wheel to be loud, a hub to be loud or not loud. Is it the material of the locking mechanism against the splines? I don't know. You would think that it's slower. How hollow the hub is. and it's actually creating

Oh, like a resonance. Like what material the actual hub itself is made out of? You know, I couldn't tell you. You know, guys, this is really like clashing Nick's world of acoustics and music with cycling. It is. It is. Well, it's cool. I would love to know for anyone out there who maybe does know very specifically about this.

If they wanted to write in and tell us next week, we can kind of educate everyone on it. But it does seem like the blingier the bike, the more obnoxious, the free. And please don't send in guesses. Only if you're an expert in this field. Send in data, your credentials. Start with your credentials. I might also, maybe I'll also reach out to somebody at Zip and just, you know, hey, we have a podcast that's wildly popular Zip people.

And we're phoning an expert. Yeah. Also, please resign us next year. No, yeah. Our contract goes through 2026. I'm joking. I don't actually know. Okay, there you go, Sean.

So we don't totally know, but Eric, we know has had and Paula have had high-end wheels that are not loud. So it's not necessary. I also know that it bothers Paula. So I tend to like try to not freewheel and even if I'm pushing zero watts, I'll keep paddling just a little bit because I know. I'll turn around and I'll be like, do you want to go ahead of me? Yeah. Like, no, I'm just looking at the. Sorry.

Just looking at the trees. Taking your picture. It's going to be on Lightroom and 10 minutes after we've finished. I like how we can spend five minutes on a question and actually not even answer it. That's kind of what we've been doing for 137 episodes. This is 138. Don't tell everybody. Don't tell the kids. It's a secret sauce. Okay. Next question here. Yo team, try wetsuit fit. How do you go about this? I completed my first try last month, pool swim, and looking to book races next year with Lake and Ocean Swims. How would you go about making sure you get the right fit? Forgetting about the money, would you order multiple sizes? I know you

guys are orca athletes and have your sizes dialed, but what would you recommend for a complete novice? P.S. I live in the middle of nowhere and don't have triathlon wetsuit shop in the village. Yeah, that's a bummer. I was going to say, that's the best if you do that. Try and Mon. I would say that a lot of size charts for wetsu companies are really accurate. You know, and they're like, measure your bust, measure your chest, measure your waist, measure your girth. They're pretty right. Yeah, I would really get as granular as you possibly can with that size chart. Like actually weigh yourself.

Don't just think like, oh, I was, you know, whatever in college once or really get into it. If you're on the edge between one, I would usually go smaller just because I think Wetsie's do stretch a little bit. And when they get wet, they feel bigger. So if you're on the edge, go smaller. But if you're right in the middle of a size chart recommendation, go with that size. And in general is good. There's only one Watsy brand I've ever worked with where the size chart was wildly off. Yeah. I mean, it behooves the wetsuit companies to have really good size charts because every time they send you the wrong wetsuit and you have to send it back that costs them all of the shipping.

Well, that's what I was going to ask you. How do we feel about the ethics of ordering if you're between sizes, two sizes, keeping one and returning the other? I don't like that. I'm not a fan. Not just with wetsuits. I understand the thinking. I would really try to just get it right on the first try. And if you don't, just like, so. up that extra little bit of time that you're going to take to ship it back and get a new one or whatever because it really does cost us and you know any company that has multiple sizes of stuff it's it adds up a lot and it's bad for the environment on top of all of that and when you unpackage a wetsuit it like

gets all you know out of the package and it's not as simple as like a i don't know what a t-shirt yeah or a pair of shoes that you wear and your carpet and then just put it back in the box or whatever yeah totally uh next question here is from rick I find the word taper, confusing and sometimes frustrating. As triathletes and runners, we all know that the taper phase can sometimes send mixed messages. It's time to reduce physical intensity, but also what's when we need to be mentally sharp in preparing for peak performance. For some, the word taper can feel demotivating and invitation to reduce all training to zero. They can also create stress right when we're gearing up to race.

I'd love to hear your personal take. When you hear the word taper, how does it impact you mentally and emotionally? Does it motivate or challenge you? What do you focus on during the taper to stay both physically and mentally ready? Is there a better word we could be using to describe the pre-race post-high-volume phase? Thanks, just another Winnipegown, Colorado age grouper looking for help, Rick. So, as tapered always been the word, like since you guys have been recently? Yeah, since I was a wee lad.

Oh, yeah, I love taper. Woo! Think of it. Refram it. Thank you. It doesn't mean you're tapering off your fitness. you're tapering off your fatigue so that you can race fast. I have zero percent negative association with it.

All the time. I can't wait. I'm so happy. So what do you guys usually go through mentally and physically during a taper? Well, our taper week is always the same leading into a race. And it has been for ever since we're coached by Paulo. He might tinker it a little bit depending on the race. But when I think of taper, I think, oh, it's predictable.

It's familiar. I know I can race well at the end of this. No matter how tired I am at the start of the taper, I know by the end I'm going to feel good because it works 99% of the time. So maybe reframe it that way where you have a really good structure that you can anticipate. And I mean, I guess if you're just want to work hard all the time

and you're kind of the person that trains too hard during race week, maybe taper can be a bit scary. But honestly, reframe it is just getting fresher. And like capitalizing on all the work. Mentally and physically. Yeah, yeah, mentally too. Less training. I think that's like as much of a thing for it for me as the physicality of it is

arriving at race day feeling like I am a little bit curious to find out what I have to give. I feel like I am ready to go hard. I am not overly tired. I have like sort of gotten out all of the fears and whatever. that structure, like we'll do the same taper workouts. Like our swim three days out is the same every time. And our run two days out is the same every time. And I don't know.

I like, I really try to, sometimes I don't even look at the clock when I'm like, or I look at the speed that I'm running. And I'm just like kind of almost closing my eyes and going, okay, just like go race pace, get into that, feel that. and try to like have it feel as easy as possible as comfortable as possible but not getting all wrapped up in like oh how was this relative to the last time I tapered and does this feel like I can do this for 20K that's dangerous the whole thing just like just go through the process and like this is the process of getting ready to race it doesn't necessarily have any impact on the race you're just doing less volume just keeping a little bit of intensity there during taper week we're actually still doing some hard sessions like five by three minutes on the bike. I finished that session and it's probably half as long as what I would do on a normal week in terms of duration, but the intensity is still there. So I get to the end of it and I really do feel like I did a

workout. And it checks my mental box of like I'm reducing one of the things, but I'm still keeping the other thing to stay sharp. And the result of doing a 90 minute ride versus a three-hour ride is now I have time to pack my bike and get other things in order for the race because race week does have a stress logistically and not just physically where you have to do a lot of other stuff and pack and travel and think about nutrition and all the things that come along with racing and that can take a real big toll. So kind of like enjoy the reduced load from a time perspective and use it productively to prepare in other ways. how often have you guys felt like

oh I tapered too much I'm too fresh for this race how often has that been a problem versus the opposite getting to race day and you're like man I still have too much fatigue yeah I feel like you can 100% overdue tape

your taper week like go too hard I think it's a little bit hard to not overdue in which direction to like go too hard I think most people, if there's a problem, they are going too hard on taper week. They're like, they've got this nervous energy.

They feel like they didn't do enough training. And they're like, maybe, you know what? I know that probably what I do on Monday isn't going to like be part of my fitness for Saturday's race. But I don't know. Like it'll make me feel good to go really fast. And like they're trying to like deal with confidence issues. And you just like really, really, really got to get through your head that like what you're doing on tape or week is not going to have any impact on what you're doing on Saturday. except where it could have a negative impact of leaving you too tired.

Yeah. I liked your idea of not letting the, like, not trying to think about what is this effort going to feel like in the race? Like, no, it's not, don't go there anymore. Or how does this impact the race? I think I said on the podcast before, but when I lost my bike leading into TT Nationals and Tram Blah, I barely trained at all. And I had two amazing races and felt good.

Yeah. The thing about age group racing is you're not racing that much in the year necessarily. So you feel like you really got to. to nail it and you like invested so much financially into this race. Whereas for us like, okay, I have another race in two weeks or three weeks. We're so familiar with the feeling of taper that it becomes a little bit second nature and there's another chance in three weeks. Much less concerned about feeling weird on taper week as well. I guess the last thing I'll say is like a good rule of thumb that I go with is if like I'm feeling really tired going into one of these

taper workouts, I will do the same amount of intensity or I'll shoot for like just a slightly higher intensity, but significantly less duration. Like if it's five to eight reps, I'll just only do five, make sure I still hit the state in intensity. And if it's like an hour to an hour and a half total choice amount of ride time, do the less. If you're feeling really good, don't go harder on the intervals. Go the same amount, just do more intervals and do the hour and a half instead of the hour. That's great.

It's really easy to just like, oh, I know it says race pace, but I'm just going to do race place, race pace plus 75% because I feel like I can break the chain off his bike. Okay, this next question here is from Paolo, but not Coach Paolo. This is from an Italian Paulo. Hi, Paula, Eric, and Chao Nick. I'm originally from Northern Italy, but I work in different places for a few years at the time. And a year ago, I moved to Sri Lanka, the pearl of the Indian Ocean. A question is, do you have any tip on training in a tropical country

where the temperatures are around 32C, often higher, year around. In some seasons, it's so hot that even the swimming is impossible. 30 plus degree Celsius water temperature. That's insane. The bike is okay since I do most of the training indoor anyway because of the traffic, but running becomes a torture past 730 a.m. And it's always so humid. Should I forget intensity and use the time here as a maxi base phase? I guess it's not too different from Kona this time of year. Keep up the great podcast. Love from the Indian Ocean. Paolo. I would say in these situations, like sometimes doing base endurance training is worse than doing some short intensity and getting out of the heat. Like, you know, condensing your workout maybe.

So you start at 6.30, you're done by 7.30 and then you're inside versus trying to do like two hours. Just doing like shorter interval sessions. Yeah. Even 30 minutes. I just worry about getting like dangerously hot and then not being able to cool down. I mean, my brain went to like the kind of stuff that we do real early season where it's like 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off, like for four minutes. And then, you know, your total workout is like an hour and 15 minutes. Like hit training.

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, it's tough because like that would obviously get your core temperature up quick, but not having your core temperature high for like four hours. I mean, that also just takes a huge toll on you. And like how do you hydrate? Like if you're in that much of a heat, if you're training for three hours. hours, if you remember a three hour ride. How can you carry that much water with you that you need? You're like playing catch up all day long. Yeah, preloading and then taking as much as you can and then post

post loading. Yeah. And then I mean, you just might have to suck it up and do a certain degree of indoor training with a fan. Like I know I think Lionel does that and plenty of people who live in the desert. Like that's their winter essentially. It's like through the summer. They just have to do a bunch of indoor training because it's too hot outside. Yeah. It seems like there is, the solution for this is to not live in a place where it's this hot, right? It's just, that is, there's not an easy way around training in something this hot.

On showed us some really cool apparel that's like meant for really intense heat where it like cools you as you get it wet. So I think that's something you could look for in 2025 from On. Yeah. Unfortunately, none of us are good at racing in the heat. So we're not super great resources on this. You could also do, this is like, I'm just grasping for solutions, but do like loops and have like ice at the start of the loop.

Because I think ice is a really effective way to cool me down if I'm racing in the heat, even just mentally. If you could have access to that on a longer run and. A little lunchbox of ice cubes. Yeah. Like make your own aid station. hands and do smaller loops and come pick up ice and cold water frequently and that could uh i don't know boring as hell but make it more tolerable i like that do it with friends make it a thing make a game

out of it okay last question here is from ryan hi guys been following along since the youtube channel started way back in 2020 the youtube channel predates 2020 by the way ryan but that is kind of the beginning of t t tl youtube i would say it did took off in 2020 so that's it's a fair that's fair no Assumption that's 2020. Just recently started listening to the pod. Great stuff. Looking forward to seeing you all at T-100, Lake Las Vegas. Don't forget the lake.

Yeah. Anyway, here's my question. As the old try adage goes, nothing new on race day. This got me thinking about Paula's new on super shoes that she picked up while in Switzerland for the UCIs and then worn her run for T-100 EBESA. Yeah, you only do new things if you're the only person that has them and they're super cool. That's my answer. Yeah.

I'm sure the pros are always getting new gear to try out, test, give feedback to manufacturers, etc. But how long, miles, hours, et cetera, do you typically use a piece of gear before it isn't new anymore and is deemed ready for use on race day? For reference, I'm an older middle of the pack at best, age roper that tends not to tinker with my training and race kits too much, as I feel like it takes me longer to adjust to even small changes in my setup. Ryan. Yeah, that was really unusual for me to wear a bread. new model of shoe for a race that was a quite important race

after I only wore the shoes for 20 minutes but it's like a very yolo. You only live once. We know what yolo means. I don't know if my mom does. She listens to this. Okay, got it got it. Yeah, we have all kinds of people who listen to the

part. So that was kind of my thought process and it also comes back to we race so many times a year and I have this insanely cool pair of shoes that I loved upon first run. So I had, of course, I had doubts and concerns about, like, wearing them for an hour versus 20 minutes and running with wet feet potentially, et cetera, et cetera. But I was willing to take that risk, and I truly, truly loved the shoes while I was racing.

So I have no regrets. And it's funny at this all-an athlete summit I was just at, not a lot of people in the room had raced in the light spray yet because they're mostly track athletes and trail runners. Oh, right. And Chelsea didn't wear them in Kona. So, of course, Helen O'Berry wore them when she won Boston, and they made them basically for her, I think. But they are a crazy cool shoe. And hearing about, I won't go too much into light spray here, but the economics of this shoe, it can be made in three minutes and not be touched by a single human from start to finish.

Contrast to that to a normal shoe, it normally takes 150 people touching. a shoe to make it a shoe because there's so many parts and panels in soul and laces and all the things that are involved versus this very simple shoe that can be made, for example, in Europe and then shipped somewhere in Europe, not made in Vietnam and then shipped across the world. So it is a very future forward, environmentally friendly, cool technology that they've come out with that it's not just a great shoe in terms of racing, but it's a great shoe in terms of sustainability as well. Wow, I sound like the guy presenting this. Somehow I predict this shoe is still going to be $300, even though only zero people are

touching it. You really think it's going to be $300? It's going to be $400. It's going to be like $380. It's going to be expensive. But this is another interesting thing. I don't even know how much I'm allowed to say. But as we were going around talking about all the race shoes with all the athletes in the room, it was so interesting to hear everyone's opinion. because some people like the cloud boom echo better. Some people like the cloud boom strike better. Some people like one spike versus another spike and a steeple spike. There's just so many different avenues of racers in the room.

And the guy who's one of the footwear designers brought out a prototype shoe that was basically like a $200 cloud boom strike. So a more affordable price point for almost the same level of performance. as the cloud boom strike. A little bit heavier, a little bit different compound and material, but, you know, 66% of the cost. $200 versus $300. And my immediate thought was, I think this would be so popular amongst age group triathletes. I think people would just buy them to train in them. That's, that's, so they would sell more. Yeah, that was the other thought too. And I maybe I would even train in it. But it's barely different. It's like buying a, you know,

Schram Red versus Schram Force. Right. A little bit. The best top of the line, super light. Do you need that? Probably not. But there's force that's almost just as good and way cheaper. So to address this question, though,

Eric, when do you feel like a piece of gear? You've used it enough to deem it not new, which is to say, okay to use in a race. Wow, I really diverged from the actual question, hey? I probably if I'd I I don't know like two runs like Pauli did a 20 minute run if I'd done two 20 minute runs I think that would be enough for me for like a super shoe you don't need to run like a longer race pay style effort or even like a brick run off the bike to to know that no I think I will definitely say that I'm extremely unfinicky though like I think I can tell pretty quickly like

oh this shoe hurts my foot or it doesn't hurt my foot and like I'm pretty injury um not injury prone. So I'm less concerned about it. And with a bike, a bike is more like a few weeks at least to, you know, make sure that whatever. Unless it's literally a exact copy of your other bike. Yeah. And you can trust it pretty well. You can cut it a little bit closer on that. But yeah. The nutrition stuff, how much do you guys need to test it before you use it in a race? I would want to test that for like a month ahead of time with like multiple high intensity workouts to see how it feels. I'm less thinking about that.

That can really like completely change your day. You guys are just talking about you and Luke were talking about this today about how when you have GI distress, it's one of the most unpleasant things because there's just nothing you can do about it most of the time once it starts. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And I'm pretty like I do need to take a lot of nutrition and I am not like Paula. I can forget to drink her bottle and finish her race completely fine.

if I forget to drink half of my bottle, I can't finish. I'm much more finicky with the nutrition stuff for sure. You guys, I've been drinking my entire bottle of high-carb fuel for my bike rides lately, i.e. the last two days lately. How does it feel? You felt amazing. Yeah, it's like 400 calories. And I'm like, okay, it's just going to be my mission to finish this bottle in this ride.

Yeah, that's great. And you can finish the workout feeling fine. It's seriously a hack. Achievement unlocked. I can remember when I started fueling appropriately and trying out like a high amount of carbohydrates and just being like, wow, hour three to four doesn't feel like death. Yeah. Like I feel stronger like I keep going. You guys, I've been racing for 20 plus years and I just figured this out yesterday.

Amazing. Better than ever. I did an hour and a half ride. Three and a half hour ride and I thought I could do more because I drank all my bottle. That's good. if only somebody had been gently hinting that you should do this Well you know what helps

Truly what helps And this is not a sponsor plug fakeness Is that it tastes really good It tastes like lemonade Which is my favorite flavor Right I agree This was like

When I first tried the tail once up the beginning I was like oh man I actually want to drink all this This is great Some of the other products I've tried I'm like Oh this is so gross I'm just drinking it because I should But this stuff I'm like

Yummy. I want to take more chugs of this. Yeah, take more chugs. And then suddenly it's gone and I want more. Maybe I need two bottles. Oh, my gosh. I would pay anything for this magical potion. Yeah. Paul, good. Keep it up. Life happiness. Keep it up. I will. I think that's all the time we have, folks. We even went six minutes over what we said we were going to do.

Wow. Amazing. Bonus. Just because we love you. We do. We appreciate the kids. This is because I went on and on about on. Dream on, Paula. We need to put a picture of you wearing this ridiculous thing. I think that should be... Can we make that the title of this podcast, on and on and on about on?

On and on about on. Well, you guys, this headband that says Dream on on it, which I'm wearing. The World Championships for Track and Field next year are in Japan. So this is their thing. This is like a Japanese headband. Samurai style. And everyone's... going to be wearing these. And the team in Japan sent these for us to wear at the summit for a

selfie. But I am just going to be wearing it all the time. Now you're just fashionable. Do they need any on ambassador types to like, you know, go to Japan and cheer and be in like a cheering section or support? I'll get my pom-paw because we can do whatever it takes. Again, take one for the team and do that. Like now I'm friends with Helen O'Berry, so I got to be there. On a lighter note, we'll talk to you guys next week on a more traditional podcast. I'm back on. Oh no, We'll be in Vegas next week. Oh my God. You guys will be in Vegas on Monday?

No. Tuesday we travel. Eric will leave Monday. Nick will be in Vegas by Wednesday and we'll just do it all in person. You guys, we can do it all in person next week. That is so fun. Okay, great. Wait, I don't know if I'll be there Wednesday.

Well, you will for the pod. We do it for the pod. Oh, wow. Oh, I see. The hammer has been dropped. We've made sacrifices for the podcast. That's what we do here. Okay.

That would be very fun. Yeah, that would be fun. We also do things that are fun. That's a good goal. We do things that are fun. Okay, see you guys next week. Okay, bye, everyone. Later.