That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon vs road bike watts, practicing race-day nutrition, and more!

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

This week, we kick things off with some light triathlon news, dive into a round of This or That, and then jump into listener-submitted questions. Here's what we covered:Riding straight while in aeroWhat data we have displayed on our bike computers and watches during racesWhy slower paces can sometimes leave you feeling more soreStrengthening ankles for trail runningPost-race celebrations, rituals, and guilty pleasuresPreventing crotch numbness from TT ridingDo bigger hands make for better swimming?Our favorite parts about doing the podcastWhen and how to start practicing race-day nutritionHow much lower TT bike watts are compared to road bike wattsA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Erica Lacher. I'm Paula Finlay. I'm Nick Goldston. And this is our trathom podcast, which is the spoken arm of our triathlon existence. That trathlon life, we've got a YouTube channel. We have a very cool community that we've built over the years. And we're psyched to be here and talk to you about multi-sport and all the stuff that we enjoy inside of it. Paul and I have both professional trathletes. Nick is a professional music. musician, amateur triathlet, and I think the three of us teaming up together can cover a lot of the different perspectives and things that you might be interested in the sport. Good intro, Eric. Eric, you told me today that it felt like someone took a baseball bat to your quads. Can you elaborate on that? I don't really know why, except for that I went on like this 10-day bicycle, gravel, charity

event, tour ride in Patagonia, Chile, without any running whatsoever. And then I just jumped right back into run volume. So I think that might be the reason. It turns out lots and lots of bike riding does not equal any amount of running. Well, fitness-wise, it would. Yeah, like the heart and the lungs are doing okay, but the legs are wondering what the heck is going on. Yeah, when I was at TT World Championships,

rooming with the other TT girl who's on a pro-tour cycling team, she said that they're not allowed to run. Like, their team manager says no because of that reason. Their bodies aren't used to it, so the impact just makes them sore and cuts into their ability to go hard on the bike. So maybe in like offseason and stuff, but they really try to cap it. Yeah. It's not surprising. Yeah, it's like us when we just decided to start lifting again.

Can barely walk for a couple days. Wait, Paula, if you were to put all your eggs in the TT bike basket, would you 100% cut out running? Or do you think you would still run occasionally? I think I would, if I was serious about it, cut out running. Wow. Man, I have a hard time imagining you being able to do that. Well, I mean, all those injury spells where I couldn't run ever, like... That's true, but you weren't happy about it.

That would definitely be an interesting experiment, though. But if I... The whole week leading into TT World Champs and I didn't run. So it's a thing. It makes you tired. Running makes you tired. Running is hard. It's very hard.

Anyway. The TTL Trail line came out. on Sunday. And it was so popular that by the time I woke up, several of the items were already sold out. Just the hats. Just the hats. We still have a couple of women's crew necks left. And we have women's t-shirts, men's t-shirts, men's crew necks still in stock. So I didn't, you know, I think there's a little bit of a misconception with some people that we intentionally sell stuff out. And it's really just, this is the amount of capital of money that we can put up front to like risk on something that's completely new. And the trail line is a completely new thing. It's something I'm

extremely excited about that I think looks good. But we just, you know, we can't put up $50,000, $100,000 to just make sure that it doesn't sell out ever. Right. Those are wildly exploded numbers. But it is just us funding it. We don't have any venture capital. And this was an experiment. But I think it was a good experiment. The next trail drop will come out probably in, I don't know, like maybe three months or so. I want to involve Castelli in it and do some actual technical stuff and get stuff that you would wear on the trail. This first drop was just stuff that you would wear pre-post trail for the most part.

Do you guys remember the very first run we went on on the river trail? Every time. And I offered to... Every time I run by that part. To invest in TTL. Oh, yeah. Of course, dude. You offered to what?

Invest. Invest. I was like... It would have been a great investment. I was like, I would have. I was like, I would have. believe in this. And if you guys want money, I want to give you money for it. And you guys did not need my money. Well, no, I mean, we could have used your money. And I would say that, you know,

if somebody approached us with investment right now, I could definitely think of what to do with the money now. And the apparel game is very money intensive. But at the time for sure, I was like, man, if you just gave me 100 grand tomorrow, I don't feel equipped to be a CEO. I'm not really sure how I would spend this. And we wanted to grow it at a pretty organic. normal rate. So I think that's worked out really well. And the trail line is just like kind of a new exciting chapter. Normal stuff, core stuff, not going anywhere and we're working on the next. Man, I got a T-shirt that's going to be just at Oceanside. Ooh.

Fire. Ooh. That'll be in the Castelli booth at Oceanside. We're kind of teaming up with them a little bit. Nice. Yeah. I'd be psyched. Okay. So this week was a little slow on news, but we kind of, Eric and I were just talking, before the podcast here. There are a couple of things that happened.

Yeah. Eric, do you want to rattle them off? Sure, sure. 70.3, Geelong happened? Yep. Yellow Gaines. Jelly beans.

Kelly Geans. He won. Not a huge surprise to anyone. No. So, point three world champion. Somebody that I noticed, actually, Jake Bertwistle was on the podium, which I'm really psyched about.

I like that guy a lot. He takes incredible photos, actually. another recent convert from short course racing. And then on the women's side, Natalie Vancouverden, another convert from short course, took the one on the women's side. First race of the Iron Man Pro Series. Yeah.

Everybody was like really aggressively mentioning that it was the first race of the Iron Man Pro series and they're on the board with points. So I don't know if that was like an Oceana, hey guys, in your social media post, drill home the Pro Series or just people are like that psyched up. about it, but that was, I noticed that on everybody's posts, they mentioned the pro series.

So maybe more people are going to be invested in actually trying to, you know, get the maximum number of points and placing that at the end of the year. We will see. Yeah. What else happened? Oh, yeah. Milan San Remo. Holy shit. If you don't do anything else this week, go watch the last 10K or some highlights from that because that was absolute insanity. Yeah. The last 10K especially, though. Wow. Exciting. On the men's race? Yeah.

On the men's race, yeah. Yeah, do you know what happened in the women's race, Paula? Yes. Was it awesome, too? Yeah, the women's racing is just as exciting. I think you should go watch the end of that. Obviously, it is. I was just curious if it was, you know, if you could give us any hot teasers on.

I don't do the news, you guys. Okay, all right, right. She just disrupts the news. We're not, you know, downplaying the women's thing. I just had like 16. different people message me asking if I'd watched Milan Sin Remo so I did go watch the highlights and then

the final thing I've like honestly I forgot yeah sorry at the Barclay Marathons right nobody finished nobody finished the Barclay Marathons now last year five people finished that's got to be some sort of record right that was a record yeah and then

it's one slash zero one slash zero is the ratio yeah wow nobody this year yeah and if you there's a cool little video that someone put out on it. But if you haven't seen, there's a documentary on the Brooklyn Marathons

in general that's worth a watch from several years ago. How would you describe that? It's just like, you know the course like 10 minutes before it starts. You don't even know what time a day it's going to start.

You're just camping out for like three days and then they just blow a whistle and it's time to start. Yeah, the conch. They blow the conch. That's an hour warning and then the guy,

the main guy, he lights his cigarette or cigar, I forget which it is, and that's when the race starts. Right. And then you just have checkpoints that you need to hit. There's no course.

just like get to these GPS coordinates essentially. Yeah. So it's not GPS coordinates. You're not allowed to use GPS. You have to go, it's circled on a map, and you go there and there is a book. You are assigned a number. You have to take that number page out of the book and bring those pages back each time. And you do five laps of the 20 miles each time.

Do you know what like an average, or like the fastest, time ever is. I assume it's like two days. Oh, it's longer than that. Because the issue is they're not trails that you're on. And it's like very strange terrain. So you have to orienteer yourself around. I don't know. I think it's if I could just real quick, I could check. But you know when you hear people be like, oh, more people have done X than completed this. Right. Literally anything you could put in place of X. Been to the moon, been to Everest, been to K2. Way more people have done all of those things. Yeah, more people have been to space, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, okay, so the record is about 52 hours, but you have to finish under 60. Okay, so I wasn't super far off by two days. Crazy. All right, yeah, I highly recommend checking out Alon San Remo and the Barclay Marathons documentary. Great watches if you're sitting on the trainer this week. Sweet. Speaking of trainer and training, how are you guys feeling?

How are your weeks going? How's your training going? Well, I barely made it home from Patagonia. Like with, let's just say, had to do a lot of probiotics after Patagonia. Yeah. It's been a, it's been a hectic week. Yeah. And then I got sick on Friday.

Yeah. From what we can tell, unrelated, different sickness, but. I had like a flu or something. Yeah. Couldn't really get out of bed. Took Friday and Saturday pretty easy. But, yeah, back into things now. Oceanside in 10 days or so, 11 days?

Yeah. Yeah. We're all in on the Oceanside stuff right now. Polar Racing film tour. There might be a new bicycle coming along at some point in time, hot teaser. It'd be fun. Oceanside is always a complete blast, no matter. I mean, it can be a little bit uncomfortable being early in this season, but it's always a fun.

Fun one. Okay, so let's do a little this or that. And this is one submitted by Ryan. I have a little this or that. One, have access to a La Marzaco every day wherever you are, but no coffee shops around, or no coffee machine at home ever, but coffee shops around. This is for travel. Well, assuming that money is no object, coffee shops around.

No, I would say the La Marzocco at home. I love that. Because it's just as good as coffee shops, and then you can have multiple a day. You're missing to FICA, though. I just love going to the coffee shops and you're like judging the oat milk cappuccino and the space and the vibe. That's like one of my favorite things about when we travel to races is going and checking out the scene. Two, keep your current six to seven day swim schedule, six to seven day. Who's doing six to seven day?

Or two days of swimming with double session on those two days and your fitness would be the same. I like swimming every day. going back to the pool for a second session, I did a little stint of that back in my ITU days, and it's really tough. I mean, when I was a swimmer, we do it all the time. Swim before school, swim after school. But getting wet again,

you just feel like you're constantly waterlogged if you're going to the pool two times. That's just so much time to go to the pool and dry off and all the things like you're not getting much else done on that day. But think about you get five days of not going to the pool, that's kind of nice too. That's pretty nice too. I would option three just go to the pool twice.

a week one time. Yeah, right. And stay the same fitness. That would be ideal. Stay the same fitness, of course. Very nice. Yeah. Okay, next one here.

Travel to three of seven races alone, but have each other at the other races as support. Or travel to all seven races together, but both of you are racing each race weekend. No, not number two. It's real hard for both of us to race at the same weekend. I don't know if we ever will again, actually. Yeah.

maybe not. Yeah, I prefer racing by myself, to be totally honest. Like going to ultra runs where I need Paula to hand me my pack and help me think of things that I'd never think of with logistics, that's fantastic. But triathlons is, I don't mind at all just going all by myself. Yeah, there's something in ultras that also feels like a family event. You know, there's something about it's like you're kind of camping and there's a lot more fun. I feel like a triathlon is more serious.

Yeah, I don't know. It's just, yeah, you're right, for sure. It's like, it's not that it's any harder or easier. It's just there's something, there is a playfulness in Ultra. I don't know what that is. For me anyway, it's not a completely fair, you know, comparison because like what I do in Ultra is, oh, cool, if it goes really well, maybe this could go somewhere or it could be fun.

But Traathlon was like, this result matters, the prize money matters. Like, the result. matters for the end of the thing. I'm trying to qualify for this, that, and you know, it's like much more, yeah, it just, that's not quite a fair comparison. Yeah, that's fair. Next one is retire from triathlon to coach and manage the Devo team. We're talking about the TTL Devo team here. Or retire and cover Iron Man World Championships every year. Two. I can tell you which one of those would be significantly easier. Yeah, show up one week a year and Talk about triathlon.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Devo team is super rewarding, especially when you see somebody have a good race and they're excited. But it is a lot of time commitment. There's just no way around it. And just showing up to talk about triathlon on a broadcast, it sounds pretty dreamy and easy, that's for sure.

Yeah. Last one. Wear a wetsuit two sizes too big, or wear a bike and running shoes that are three sizes. too big. What for a race? That's all terrible. I'd rather do the wetsuit too big. I'd have to do the wetsuit, yeah. Because you could just get

through the swim. It takes you an extra 10 minutes. Imagine running with shoes that big. Yeah, that is cloud shoes. That's horrible. Fun. Okay, well, that's it. Thanks for all you do. P.S. I think Paula needs to do an X try. I think you three would love the self and team support aspect of the racing. Paula needs to do a cross try? Just so you know, I'm doing an X-Try this year.

No, I got enough stuff to do of races that actually matter. Sorry. Whoa. Shots fired. Eric just said himself. Now he did it. He's like, when I go to Ultra, it's like, oh, it'd be cool if I did well. But then I go to triathlon, I got to win prize money.

I got to think about this. Is X-Try an Ultra? What? Do we think X-Try is an Ultra? Do we count that as Ultra? I feel like Ultra to me is, I guess, only running. But no, there's Ultra Endurance Triathlons as well. I, yeah, I don't know.

Paul is just commenting on it. It's fucking stupid and pointless. No, I'm just commenting on the fact that we host a triathlon podcast. We don't even know what it is. X try? Yeah. It's Padigan Man. It's Norseman.

It's like off-road iron man. Oh, okay. Those are cool. Yeah. Those matter. But I'm not doing that. That like Canada thing that we talked about at a great length that ends at the top of a mountain observatory.

Yes. Yes. Adventurey stuff. Yeah. So my adventure iron district. But it's still triathlon. In heinous conditions generally. Yeah, it would be right up Eric's Alley.

Yeah, it would be right up Eric's Alley. Okay, moving on to questions here. You can submit your questions for the podcast, and I have to say, Paul put out a call for questions a couple weeks ago, and the quality and the volume of questions has been excellent. So keep those coming.

We really appreciate it. You can submit a question at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast, where you can also become a podcast, supporter. Podcast supporters are the only way that this podcast makes any money, so we really appreciate it. And this week, we picked a random podcast supporter to receive one of the very cool, very high-quality orca swim caps. And this week's winner is Sarah Greer. Congratulations, Sarah. Let us know where we can send you the swim cap. And we'll get it out to you right away. Thanks for being a podcast supporter. first question here is from Brenda

Hey Al do you have any tips on how to get better at riding straight when I'm an arrow? It feels like I'm constantly swerving back and forth a bit, which makes me nervous to really pick up speed. Thanks so much. Brenda. Is this something you've ever noticed in your writing? I advice would be just to ride the trainer because that's practice being straight. Well, the trainer is keeping you straight, though, right?

What about the rollers? It's a joke, Nick. It's a joke. That's a joke. I mean, but riding the trainer. Rollers could help. Yeah, rollers would be good. I'm going to guess that this is probably a core engagement sort of a thing.

That's what I thought. Kind of like hips dropping equivalent and running. Yeah. I mean, you could, you know, I don't want to, like, no bike fit advice here necessarily, but if your saddle is a little bit too high and that's causing your hips to rock, or if just you're not keeping that tight of a core and you're just a little loosey-goosey up top, generally, like the more power that you put into the pedals, I think probably the straighter the bike's going to go. Yeah.

That's true. The bike does kind of fix itself. Like if it's a windy day and you push harder, the bike will stabilize itself. It wants to go straight. Yeah. So it must be something

you're doing with your body that's making it swerve. And generally just power on the pedals is stable. This is my theory with swimming, which is that when you swim fast, everything just kind of works and looks good. Same with the running.

When you run fast, everything just kind of works and looks good. And the slower you go, the more those bad form things are obvious. Yeah, it's not... I might say like the faster as swimmer you are, the better it looks. Yeah, well, sure, yeah, of course. Yeah, if you take someone who's not a great swimmer

and just tell them to sprint, it's not going to look good. You know, it's not going to look good. But it does, I do agree that sometimes running quicker, swimming a bit quicker up-tempo fixes some of the, I don't know, mistakes or technical errors in your stride or your stroke. So same thing on the bike. Yeah, with us with swimming, you can at least, you know, kind of hold good form for a shorter period of time if you're pushing.

And definitely like running hard up hills is a fantastic, just enforced natural form drill. Yep. Okay, we're going to move on also because we have many questions this week. I forgot to mention that. I couldn't pare him down any more than I already did. Let's just do it. Let's knock it. Next question.

Question for each of you, what data is on your bike computer screen during a race? Same question for watch while running. This is from Paul. I don't change my bike computer when I train and when I race. It's the same. Oh. Yep. Same.

Really? More just because of like, I guess, convenience or habit or I know exactly where on the screen I'm looking when I want a certain information because it's just there every day. But I have distance, cadence, lap time, lap power. Because then I can like lap my watch. It refreshes the lap power. Three second power, which is basically. basically your instant power at the time. Speed.

I have a lot of data on my screen, actually. The nice thing about the Wahoo is that you can very easily just push the upper, the down button and add or show a bunch of data things. So when I race, I'll probably crunch that down to where I just have like three second power, lap power, cadence. I don't care about speed. I don't care about distance. It doesn't matter irrelevant.

Just like time maybe. But that average power is like a very big thing. Versus in a training ride, then yeah, you might want your last lap power and you might want the speedy, the distance or the time of the day. I will say that the Wahoo app makes it extremely easy to change these around even when you're mid-ride. For example, I needed heart rate. so I just went into the app while I was on a ride, added heart rate to the data page, and it showed up immediately.

It's so simple. So that is a nice thing about that. You could easily change it between a race and a training session. Yeah. And on the watch, I usually have time, speed at the instant speed, lap speed. Like your minutes per kilometer speed. Minutes per kilometer. Yeah, right.

That's all end heart rate. I like to ride around a lot of the time with just a map on my bike. This isn't training. Yeah. You know, obviously not for interval sessions, but if it's just go ride three hours, then I just like to have the map up and just kind of see, oh, there's a road that shoots off there. Oh, there's a trail that's running parallel to the road right here that I didn't know about.

Oh, there's a river, right? You know, I like to have that pulled up. And then I'll just kind of bounce over to the page where you can change what song you're on on Spotify. Right. Right. Does that work for you? That does not work for me. Yeah, it does work for me. You probably need to do a firmware update.

At first it did not. It was kind of hit and miss, but, and especially with the new Ace, works every time like a terminal problem. Nice. Yeah, and then for me, just like running more trails on my running watch, I do have the great adjusted pace or like lap effort pace, some sort of a thing like that where I can, you know, if I'm running up a steep incline, it's not just completely clueless about what's going on. So I'll have the great adjusted pace and the actual pace for the lap showing. Right.

Nice. On my bike computer, I do have a different thing for a race. I have a race page. I have miles per hour, my five second power, my 30 second power, lap power, total miles, and lap time. I'm the only one who thinks that having speed is just completely pointless. You're right. It is pointless. That's just a waste of screen space for me.

Not if you're on a TT bike. For what, though? Like, what is it? It encourages me to, like, be riding faster. Ultimately, speed is the only thing that matters in a triathlon. But it's just so, like, the thing that you don't have control. Yes, you do. You can be more error.

You can push more watts. But you can't just, like, push more watts than you know that you can ultimately push, you know. It encourages me to get error when I see it. I'm like, oh, I'm going this or whatever speed. I need to get smaller or what. whatever. Those just sikes you up to know you're going real fast. Well, yeah, all of these just psych me up at the end of the day.

Until they're not what you want to see. Right. Right. And then for my run, I have overall, like, race time, run time, current pace and lap pace. And then mostly I'm just looking at the current pace and lap pace. And every once in a while glancing at the other two. Oh, I have distance on my watch too, because I like to know how many kilometers I've gone. I do know.

I do like to know that one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next question here is from Lee. Hey everyone, I'm training for my first Ironman and have found that my legs are more sore after my long runs when I deliberately run slower.

It's not a drastic difference in speed compared to my typical long run pace, maybe 10 to 15 seconds per kilometer slower. It really is not much. But my legs definitely feel tighter afterwards. Is this a thing? How slow should a long, slow run pace be? Love the pot on YouTube

and always look forward to Thursday morning. This kind of comes back to what we just talked about about our mechanics. And when you speed up, your mechanics change. And your ground contact time is less. So I could see how potentially if you're running slower, you're putting more force into each step. Your cadence is a little bit lower. And that would add to.

But I would say that there's a good chance that the surface you're running on, if that's any different, like you're running on pavement versus running on a, path or a trail that can often contribute to soreness. I would almost just say your mechanics are different. So it's just a different stimulus. Like lifting or doing calisthenics or, you know, like plyometrics. It's just it's not that it's like you're sore because you're going slower. It's just sore because your form has changed and that's just not used to it.

Slightly different muscles, right? I was way more sore when I walked the L.A. Marathon than when I ran it. Oh, dude. 100%. Because I just never walk and walk. for like whatever, seven hours is... But technically, that is going slower than running. So, yeah. Yeah, so, but if you did it more, if you ran that 15 seconds per K, slower more,

you walked more, you wouldn't get sore anymore. So it's kind of just any deviation. Our bodies are so tuned in to what you do. To what you always do. And I think that's why gym work and plyometrics and doing some horizontal motion and not just forward and back all the time is really good for your body because you're getting out of that comfort zone

and that unilateral motion that we're all moving in all the time. I bet if we went bowling, we would all be sore from bowling. Yeah, transatlants are actually... We don't have that vast of a... Movement pattern. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. We're not like basketball players or soccer players with all of these directional movement abilities and really sturdy ankles and stuff. We're really good at going forward. Everybody should do a trail run once a week. Just get those side to side.

Yeah, the run I did today at Maston was never straight. It's so twisty. You look at the map, turning, turning, turning, rock, rock, up, down. Yeah, that's good. It's really good for not just like muscle building, but different focus too, thinking about that versus just running. How long you've been running for? Far out.

Far out. man. Okay, guys. I'm sorry. No, no, no. You said bowling and then I started thinking about Big Lebowski. Yeah.

Far out is from Big Lobowski. Yeah. Dude, it's already the 10th tomorrow. Far out. We haven't referenced Big Lobowski in like probably six months, so. No, it's been less than that. We slip it in everyone as well.

Yeah, you were the one that referenced it. Anyway, next question here is from Kaden. Hey, everyone, I'm looking for advice on strengthening my ankles for trail running. Perfect. Perfect segue. Is Caden Leado? What's the time it is?

It's not spelled like Caden Leado, unfortunately. But Caden, you're always welcome to some of my questions to the podcast. I had a few grade two to three high ankle sprains when I was younger, and I've been hesitant to take on trail running. What exercises or techniques would you recommend to improve ankle stability and prevent injury? Also, how much does footwear impact injury prevention specifically for trail running? I've just started listening to your podcast and catching up on past episodes while I wait for the weekly releases. cheering you on from Raleigh, North Carolina during Oceanside, Paula, let's go.

Okay, what do you guys think? What comes to mind here? Get yourself a mobile board. That thing saved Paula. Yeah. Yeah, we don't make any money off of mobile board sales, but we are super happy to tell everyone about it. We have had a great experience.

We know the guy who created it. And, like, if you don't know what it is, basically it's this board that you can put like a half circle unit underneath it. So you just kind of have this like rocker sort of a thing. And then there's kind of a hole where you put some of your toes in and it really works your big toe. At the same time, it works on your ankles and you do. It doesn't work your big toe. It's teaching you to make your other toes work.

Oh. It's taking your big toe away. Oh, I thought it took only left your big toe. Only a big toe and it takes your other four toes away. There's a hole there. So it teaches you to use your big toe in a way that strengthens your whole foot and not just using all of your toes as a whole. Jay would do a way better job of explaining this than me, but it really does work. You can change the side you-shaped things so they're either forward and back or the other way,

so you can move it in like two different directions. This is really hard to explain on a podcast. I just thought it would be fun to try to explain it, but we can cut this if it's too hard. Yeah, so everyone go get a mobile board. But also another thing that Heather Jackson says she does is she tapes her ankles in races because she's had so many instances in races where she's twisted an ankle, or sprained an ankle or tripped on a rock, she says that actually taping them makes a big difference

and it just gives you that extra security. I don't think that's a replacement of just strengthening your ankles in general, but for a race, it could be a good... Yeah, just insurance. Insurance policy. You break that cycle of injury where the ankle is weak, but then in the meantime, do something like the mobile board or like there's things like, even just strengthening it under

set of your foot where you like try to grab a towel and like scrunch it up with your with your toes stuff like that. I mean that's foot strengthening. I think that's probably related. Any kind of single leg gym work is going to be really good for your ankles. And I think a good... What about like the bowsoo ball upside down and like doing a single leg? Yeah, boosoo balls are good.

Any of those things that are just throwing off your stability and you have to stabilize yourself for good for your ankles. But a good tip would be also if you are able to, sometimes in gyms, you're not. you're not allowed to, but do gym with bare feet or with socks. That is really good for your little foot muscles. And it's obviously dangerous if you're hauling around heavy weights and you don't have shoes on, be careful. But if you can do some of your strengthening mobility exercises with bare feet, that's really good. Yeah, even just at home doing like walking lunges barefoot or like ankle grabs,

just any sort of thing where you're on one foot and you don't have a shoe stabilizing. They make shoes that are designed to replicate what you're talking about, Paula, where you're not technically barefoot, but there's just zero support in the shoe to kind of strengthen your... Oh, just so you can go to a gym and still have shoes on and not get kicked out? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Then I guess what was the second half of the question? Shoes that are... How much do we think shoes matter?

Massively. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if you go wearing your cloud monsters on a trail, your ankles are not going to feel very stable. We've talked about this before, but they said I guess they're new to listening to the podcast,

but trail shoes are really designed to keep your foot stable around sharp corners, over top of rocks, they have more grip. They really, really make a huge difference. If you run trails and you don't have a pair, invest in a pair. Because it'll save your road shoes, too, from getting destroyed on trails. Yeah.

It's definitely worth it. Huge difference. Okay, next question here is from Nick from Denver. Dear Tripod, I appreciate all the insights on race prep and all the training tips, but what thoughts do you have on what make for a great post-race celebration ritual? Tearing on to the later finishers, are there good vibes, better found away from the finish line? What are some of your best post-race memories that added to the race experience? Best Nick from Denver.

Actually, Oceanside last year with donuts? Do you deal after dark? Yeah. that's tough i mean in in the younger days there were some pretty epic rager parties after the um world triathlon series races the one that probably comes to mind the most is tisivwaros hungry like the whole town would just turn up at this club and just like insane euro dance music and like people went to that race half for the race and half for the after party yeah there was no alcohol involved everybody was of age it was totally fine

In most recent memory, the most fun post-race gathering I've been to is after Taupo, we went to Kat and Mark rented a really cool Airbnb that was right on this river. And most of the athletes, or a lot of the athletes, went to it. And it was just such good vibes. Everyone was in a good mood. Everyone was jumping in the river. There was a rope swing. There was a hot tub.

It was super fun. So Mark and Kat, if you listen to this podcast, we think you should rent a fancy Airbnb at every year. Please continue to ball out because we're staying in the go on the ocean side and Nick's sleeping on the floor.

We're not throwing the after party. No, I think you need to take that out because I don't want people to know where we're staying. I'll just believe it. I'll just believe it, yeah. But the best way to party after is to just like it doesn't have to be a party.

I just look forward to going and eating a good dinner. drinking a cocktail and hanging out with you too. That's what I really look forward to. It's not like I'm looking forward and going to the club and raging. Yeah, no, that's not us. What will happen after Oceanside?

Paula will finish, and then we will go to that donut place. And then we'll be depressed. Most likely we'll be depressed. Yeah, we'll go back to the hotel room. Luckily, I won't have to hack the bike up. I'll just put it on the back of the van. Then we'll probably take a little nap and we'll walk Flynn down on the beach

and then we'll go. We'll have a cry. fantastic vegan restaurant for dinner and have a cocktail. And then we'll be like, okay, so we got to get ice cream. And we'll watch a great ice cream. And we'll go to bed at 8.30. Yeah. That does sound good.

I'm looking forward to it. Actually, my guilty pleasure post race is I love, especially if I win, going back to the hotel room and just freaking organizing everything, packing my bike, cleaning all my bottles. Pleasure, she says. Jesus. So much satisfaction of just like, okay, I did this job. And I'm back in my hotel room.

This is why Paul and I don't race at the same time anymore. Like after Beijing, I won that race. I just won $20,000. I went back to the hotel room. I was like, I just am like naked because all my clothes are so gross. Eating a cheeseburger, sitting on the floor, packing my bike. Nice. That's the dream. That's the dream.

That's what you have to look forward to if you want to be a pro-travelie. That's the dream. Peak life moment. In this like super fancy hotel room because China was crazy. Anyway, that was one of my highlights post-trace last year. Yeah, that's good. Oh my gosh. That's good.

Love it. Okay, next question here is from Jesse. Hey, folks. I recently got a bike fit for my TT bike to address a penile numbness issue. Wow, words I never thought I would hear. on our podcast. This has happened to me when I first started riding

my mountain bike on the saddle that came with it, it was too narrow and I wouldn't notice until I'd get up out of the saddle and then my entire crotch would be numb.

And it was... Penile pressure. Well, Nick, you should have saved that for the answer because obviously we cannot answer this. What do you mean we?

What are you trying to say about Eric? Dialed. I don't think Eric gets penile numbness. I mean, I definitely get like, if we sit on our bikes and there are no climbing opportunities for like two hours straight,

yeah, I'll stand up realize that I can't fill anything down there. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, let's continue on here. After testing a few saddles with the fitter, I found one that felt comfortable, so I decided to buy it since the fitter couldn't lend that specific model. Unfortunately, my numbness issue isn't fully resolved, and the fitter hasn't responded to my emails. I've tilted the saddle down by five degrees, which was helpful. Ooh, five degrees is, that's quite a bit. But I still experienced some numbness. How much tilt is too much? Also, is it normal to experience numbness?

during an indoor ride. I'm in Montreal, so I haven't been able to try an outdoor ride yet. I really feel frustrated with trying saddles and still dealing with this numbness, hoping to see you guys in Tram Blant. Thanks, Jesse. Well, so they've only written inside. Yeah, that's the good news. If you're riding outside, there's so much more dynamic

movement on the bike, even if you don't know or notice it. The trainer is so static. You're not moving at all. Yeah, if you can be not numb on the trainer, the world is your oyster. Yeah. That's magical. I think that if you have this, you can go outside and ride on the same saddle, it might completely alleviate the problem. Although it's not a great answer because this person has to ride the trainer. They live in Montreal.

Yeah. So you don't want to have this problem. Yeah, ideally no numbness. My thoughts as a person who has had some saddle issues in the past is when I realize that all the pressure needs to be on my sit bones, like so scooting back a little bit instead of on the like soft fleshy part in the middle I think that makes a big difference and then you have a fitter

so I suppose they've already measured your sit bone width and so you have a saddle that is appropriate for that but to me I need a wider saddle because my sit bones are further apart and that fully both of those things together fully fix the problem for me yeah I think we've talked about this before on the podcast but defining the right saddle

It's kind of, I don't want to say a lifelong journey, but it's a bit of a journey. And you might have to go through three or four before you find the one that just fits for you, and then I would recommend buying two just in case they change it the following year or something. Yeah, it does suck that your bike fitters not replying to you, but it is a bit of an investment process. You're right. Yeah. What do you guys use for saddles? Do we want to go through what everyone uses here?

Sure. Yeah. We use the Satero, which is a hilarious name. Right. The specialized satero on our time trial bikes. Yeah. Right. And then I use on the road bike the, I think they just call it the power saddle.

Yeah, I use the power saddle as well. But yours is with MIMIC, which is like the 3D printed. Yeah, that's very soft. Right, yeah. I haven't been able to try one. I mean, I haven't asked for one because the power regular works for me. Mimic is the one where it has the center soft channel. Mirror is the 3D printed one.

Okay, so Paul's rocking mimic and mirror probably. The mirror was designed like a few years ago for this exact problem, but for women. and it was very popular. And now it's also like a lot of men use it as well. Gotcha. But I also use the power saddle on a road bike and I love it. And then I use the ISM saddle on my TT bike, which is very similar to the Satero.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that sucks. But I think there is a saddle out there that will work. Yeah. You just have to maybe experiment more. And then if you don't have the resources for that,

I think you'll be okay outside. Yeah. And I would also say that it's not necessarily a matter of just like how much tilt is too much and just like keep going down and down and down. Like there could be tilting it up slightly so that you're at perfectly zero might just allow you to like have the pressure in the right spot. So like I would say don't be afraid to take an Allen key on a ride and just kind of like play with it every 20 minutes and see if you magically stumble upon a perfect solution. Yeah, great advice. Okay, next one here. This is from Stain.

from, and this is a Dutch name. It's spelled S-T-I-J-N. I-Pent, love the pod and everything T-T-L, and as a listener, it's great to see the three of you grow, change, and explore new interests over the years. Wow, Stain, we appreciate that. And he's a Stein? I put it into Dutch Google Translate, and it was Stain.

Okay. Yep, yep, yep. I've been swimming pretty consistently now for about three to four years to the point where I can do a full Ironman swim in under an hour. oh god that's frustrating because i've been swimming for twice as long and i'm nowhere near that okay well good job stane uh and i'm quite happy with that i'm definitely an adult onset swimmer but i'm

happy to have seen good progress over time however and here comes my question i have relatively small hands especially for a man and i just can't help but wonder how much faster i would be able to swim with bigger hands and forearms maybe am i just being crazy or does that idea have merit and how much would it matter? Are your hands relatively big? I mean, paddles help you go faster as well. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. All the best and good luck this season. Stain. This is a dead end question because... You only have white. Michael Phelps has huge feet and you're not going to swim as fast as him. You're right.

Your hands are what you got. Yeah. I don't know. There's no freaking finger phalangi implants. I completely think that swimming. is, yes, it's very technical, but I think the best swimmers in the world do have the best body proportions for that activity. And that's huge arms spans. Yes, big feet, bigger hands has to help. Flexible ankles. Flexible shoulders. Yeah, there's so many genetic gifts that the best of the best swimmers have.

Ideally, six foot six plus. But I don't think that having small hands, I mean, I'm imagining like, hilariously small hands, like dinosaur hands, but I don't think that's what he has. You can still swim very well. Yeah. Even if your hands are a little bit of smaller.

Stain, you're not as fast as Paula, and Paula definitely has smaller hands than you, you know? Yeah. Oh, that's an interesting way of thinking about it. And thinner forearms, I would wager. That's, yeah, my forearms are like half the size of Eric's. Yeah. Very, like, bird bone structure.

I think if you, obviously, technique can trump a lot of these things. If you pull water really efficiently, if you're staying aerodynamic when you breathe, etc., all these things, those are more important than getting bigger hang. Yeah. This is why we, like, if we're watching somebody for form inspiration, we're going to watch Kate Ladecki instead of Sun Yang or Michael Phelps or, you know, or Ian Thorpe. Like, like, Kate Ledecky is like 6-1. You know, so like what she's doing has a slothie. slightly more application than like freaking gigantor Sun Yang who's like six, seven. And yeah, he can take seven strokes of 25.

But yeah, it's an interesting, it's an interesting observation and thought. Because paddles do make you go faster and flippers make you go faster. Yeah, more surface area, of course. But it's not like you're doomed. No, I just have to work on that cadence. Well, Eric's actually a really good example too. Eric, when you were racing like 70.3, you were one of the fastest swimmers out there. How tall are you?

You're like 5'9? Your hands are not disproportionately big compared to your body. No. So it totally worked for Eric. Yeah. Yeah. Just got it done trying real hard and yeah, high turnover. Yeah.

I think high turnover is a bad cue though because that, I think that leads to people slipping. Right. I mean, yeah, I'm not saying that's your cue, but I just think like that's probably going to happen. Yeah. What do your hands look like, guys? How spread apart are your fingers? Yeah. Hold your hand up to the screen.

Let's see who has bigger hands. hand. How big is your hand, Nick? Oh, it looks like mine's bigger. Mine takes up the whole screen. Oh, very nice. Yeah, well, your head fits between my two fingers here, Eric. I mean, the thing that would make the biggest difference is if we have webbed fingers.

Right, right, right, right. Who cares if your f***ing fingers are like a millimeter longer. You need webs. That would be a thing to, like, pay attention if you can, like, look out the tips of your, you know, eyebrows while you're swimming and make sure that you're not, like, full starfish mode. And you are actually making a decent paddle with your fingers together. You want a little bit of space. Maximize your opportunity with what you got here. Okay, we're going to move on here.

That was great, though. Next question is from Eva. Hi, TTR gang. How's it going? I'm curious, what element or aspect about doing the pod do each of you like? Is it reading the questions, having the designated time to catch up each week, editing it, editing it? Oh, my gosh.

It's getting filthy rich off of it, of course. I look forward to the new episode releases each Thursday, keep crushing Eva. My favorite part is that for sure my favorite part's editing. I love editing the podcast. Preping the questions for me. Yeah. Yeah, very nice guys. No, to be like to be totally fair, Paula and Nick take on the brunt of the organization

and Nick does all of the editing and makes it sound wonderful. I show up and I like, you know, try to accumulate a little bit of news lately these days. But for me, the fun part is that this is one thing in the entire TTL ecosystem that I don't have to put a ton of creative thought into and it's just like pure fun that's my answer i think for me it's the entire recording process i like what what's fun is the before and after yeah we were ultimately just like everybody's like oh we have so much fun talking we should report it and have a podcast and we just did we still do like talk with each other yeah a lot we've still talked five times today before this though it's not like this is our only time that we talk in the week we FaceTime on average three to

four times a day I'm a high-level importance of stuff, though. Nothing at all. That's not true. You guys catch up on your film. I show you my new frames. That's true. That's true.

It's important stuff. That's true. Also, I would like to announce, wait, Eric, can I mention the bicycle thing? Which, I'm sure. What, I don't know what it is, but. My new bicycle. Oh, okay.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of bike thing going on, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Nick has started a go-fund-me to pay for Eric's. I need it. The tarmac. just because we caught him skimming from the TTL supporter fund

to get himself a... Exactly. Absolutely not. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I can just like, I can start it off. I'm getting a new SL8 tarmac, which means that my SL7...

It's got to go. And just needs a good home in a sunny location with beautiful roads for the, you know, to live out the remainder of its days. And I just happen to know a guy in such a place. Yeah. So I will be relieving it. Eric of his tarmac SL7.

And there's no go-fund me, but you can Venmo me if you'd like people. If you feel bad. You've been on your venge. My Venge? 2017. Yeah, since that thing came out. And that's a fantastically awesome, cool bike.

But I feel like every fifth time we FaceTime, which is, you know, so that's like every other day. Like the chain is worn out and then the cogs are worn out. And then the, oh my gosh. Well, it's basically a brand new bike now. I just had the wheels rebuilt. The bearings were all serviced. I just bought new rotors and I have new calipers that were sent to me by a podcast supporter. So the bike is basically

brand new now. So I'm going to sell it and whoever it gets it's going to get a great bike. You know what you got to do? Put that on the TTL garage sale, man. Oh, very nice. Yeah, except it'll be coming from LA instead of Bend. Yeah, that's not a bad idea, actually. We'll throw it from anywhere. I think Ian Boswell might be putting a bike on there. Oh, wow. Paula, how do you feel about that? As the Queen. Eric's just like telling literally everyone me no, put it on the garage sale. Put it on the garage sale. You know who has to do the garage sale?

I have to do the garage sale. That's my favorite part of the garage sale is Paula doing it. Okay. I'll take it back. I'll text everybody. Change my mind. Cool. Well, yeah.

So favorite part of the pod. Paula, you didn't say what your favorite part is. Nick sent us the link to record yesterday, which was Monday. At the time we'd agreed on. And we were like out at dinner. I completely forgot. And I'm not like that. I never forget about things.

So it just comes around so quick. It is amazing. It is amazing. No, but I do really enjoy thinking about the fact that tens of thousands of people listen to it. And it's so funny because we're just going to be like, should we record? Should we not record? Are we feeling it? Are we in the mood?

And then we do it and tens of thousands of people listening to us talk. It's just insane to me that we're having. It is crazy. I'm yeah I don't feel like I'm intelligently speaking all the time yet so many people are listening to this if you were talking to an auditorium of the amount of people I would be freaking out yeah yeah so it is kind of fun that yes we do this every week and it is work but people are receptive and people seem to like it and I read all the emails that come in and yeah it is a it is a highlight of some people's weeks on Thursday when they're training to listen to it so yeah that's the coolest That's what I like about it. Agreed. Thanks for the question, Eva.

Next one is from Jeff, high TTL gang, keeping it short and sweet. When training for a 70.3, how far out or how frequently should you experiment with race day fueling, not the pre-race carb load, but during race fuel strategy. The context for Jeff is,

given supplements cost money, I'm not a professional, but train myself for an age group podium and Iron Man World Championship slots. I don't want to waste carb power on an easier day of training, how would you recommend doing this with an upcoming race? Jeff.

I think this is a really good question. I think I highlighted it, Nick, because all the rage now is high carb, high carb, 90 grams of carb an hour, 100 grams of carbs an hour. If you're consuming that exclusively in sports nutrition, it is extremely expensive.

And if you're training every single day and practicing for your race fueling with that same fuel, it's not sustainable, in my opinion. I mean, maybe it is, but it's, it's, there are other ways, for example, in lower intensity sessions to eat real food like dates or, I can't think of other things right now, but dates are an easy one. Where you are getting carbs from that source, they're a lot more affordable. They're actually probably better for your body.

You're not just putting in this very processed sugar into your gut. and for sessions that don't have any intensity, that could be your fuel exclusively, I think. Maybe with some drink powder. So you don't have to go overboard with practicing this. And I think that's a misconception that people have. I have to train my gut to handle it, to handle it. But it's so bad for you if you're doing that every day.

So I would personally say practicing it in your key sessions, your longer rides with higher intensity, your runs with some intensity, just pick out like three workouts a week maybe where you're practicing that, and then the rest, fuel with normal food. Or just less total carbohydrates, maybe? Yeah, it's fine to have sports nutrition in the bottle every time.

The hard thing about it is that you'll definitely have better sessions like fueling appropriately. Maybe you don't need to do the 120 grams an hour, but still getting 70 or 60 or, you know, that is ultimately going to be better for your training. So I guess you kind of got to weigh those two things of affordability versus, like obviously buying a $15,000 bike will make you faster. But is that worth it?

And finding what makes sense and feels right to you. What's interesting is the way you guys train to me, what it seems like is you guys have a lot of consistency throughout your week in terms of how much load you're doing per day. and also throughout your season. I think for age reapers, at least that is the way that my training has been structured, is that the week, of course, is less heavy, and then the weekend is heavier because we have more time for people who have jobs.

And on those weekends, I think, is a great opportunity to practice that race day fueling because you have these longer efforts. And for me, the closer I get to a race, the more there's these race-specific efforts, where it's really a perfect opportunity to practice that specific race day fuel. Right. You're just like kind of doing maintenance stuff while they're in the week and then you have like the hero session on the weekend, which is perfect for that. Yes.

So for example, I was supposed to, I couldn't because the PCH is closer, but I was supposed to do. Did you say the PCH? Because PCH? No, I would never say. You definitely said the PCH. You did. Yeah. Dang.

PCA, take that out. You can't be heard saying the PCH. I was supposed to do 10 times 15 minutes or something And 10 times 15 minutes Maybe it wasn't that Nick That's like a humble brag

You know No one really says that anymore Humble brag But that's kind of what that was Like my work out was 10 by 15 minutes It was no big deal But 8 times 10 minutes

Sorry Okay that's better Eight times 10 minutes Still big though At race space yet Well I didn't do it So I didn't do it

So I'm picking your hands. You're pretty good swimming. How big of your hands? That should be your new pickup line at the pool, Nick. Hey, nice ass-a. How big of your hands? You're looking pretty good in the water.

Can I see how big your hands are? Put your hands against mine. Wow. Very nice. What are we even talking about? We're talking about race. We're talking about race. day nutrition. But anyway, what I would say

is for me, about a month before the race is when I am starting to introduce that stuff into the harder sessions. Yeah, that feels good. Yeah, because Morton is expensive. Holy shit, yeah. Unless you get it from the Norwegians. I got it. I still have the ones from the

Norwegians. I still have like five cases of it. Okay, next question here. And last question is from Ed. Hi, Penn. Thanks for your honest, free-flowing conversation. As a dad of three boys in his 30s, this is helpful as I discover the sport, I signed up for my first full, attempting at Ironman, Wisconsin this fall. See you there.

Hell yeah, I add. Lunatics. Lunatics. The last few years, I have rode and trained on my road bike. Only last year did I start tracking power, and this winter I started training on a kicker, previously Peloton. I also added a tri-bike to my collection this winter for the upcoming full. Is it unusual for power differences average to be 50 to 75 watts lower?

on my try versus my road bike on longer rides. I've had both bikes fit and they feel good. Is it as simple as adjusting my training and muscle adjustments to the new bike style, or am I missing something with this power difference? Looking forward to getting the try on the roads this summer, but in Wisconsin, that's still a ways away. Thanks for all you do for this community,

especially those of us just discovering the sport, Ed. Wow. Is the power meter the same on both bikes? Well, the thing that I was thinking is a really cool way to test this is to measure power on the kicker and on your on your TT bike

and see if there's a discrepancy and the TG bike on the kicker, put the road bike on the kicker, make sure all the power is reading the same. Because that is because the kicker will be the control. The control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think 50 to 75 is

too much. That's outrageously a lot, yeah. It shouldn't be that much. Yeah, that's most likely a discrepancy in the power meter, I would say. between the two different bikes. Yeah. Not your power output on the two different bikes. There is for sure a difference for a lot of people.

It's usually easier to put power out on a road bike if you're climbing, for example. But it also is really dependent on the actual ride itself. If you're on terrain where there's a lot of coasting or cornering or going down hills, your average power will be lower because there's so much zero time versus riding two. hours consistently in your TT position. There's not a lot of zeros. Maybe your power will be higher. So the bikes are just different, but 50 to 70 is too much difference. Something else that I just thought of that, Ed, you might want to consider, and some people never really do this, but is I zero my power meters at the beginning of every ride, most

power meter manufacturers, that's the recommended practice, is to zero at the beginning of every ride. So make sure you've zeroed it. That might fix your problems right away. I've never done that. The fork auto zeroes. Oh, it doesn't really? Yeah. I mean, you can tell it not to, I think, but it should auto zero when you coast. Got it. Some power meters, if you back pedal, they will also kind of auto zero. Yeah. I do occasionally go in and zero mine just if I'm having a day like Ed has had where I'm like, this can't be right. This goes too weird. And I'll just go do it, but it rarely has much impact. Nick, your new bike is

you're not going to have to do that anymore. I'm probably still going to do it, but that is nice. Because I have quark on my venge. I have a quark spider-based power meter. Old, though. It is old, yeah, 2017. I think quarks have gotten so much.

Well, everything's gotten better. I know. I can't wait. I mean, I can't wait for tubeless. I can't wait for... Bookless, dude. Bookless. I can't wait for...

Fram Red. I can't wait for... Rispy red axis shifting. So nice. And just Sram in general, I'm just, I'm all in on Sram and this bike is Shimano. Yeah. Well, those are our questions. That was fun.

We missed yesterday, but we got it done today. Eric is editing his Fireflies film. I am editing our film. Paula is trying out really cool outfits from on and running around Bend with them. That is true. Today I just kept coming out of the room, the bedroom. and Eric was just like, what are you wearing? I think it's all so cool, but it's just colors that I normally wouldn't pick.

Oh, it's all really, really nice stuff. But yeah, wow. They've really gone out on the colors. Very spring. Yeah. Spring is sprung in our household. It looks great to me. It looks great.

Yeah, it's like pretty much the polar opposite of the TTL Trail Collection, which is like all desert earth tones. Yeah, it's not understated, let's say that. It's statement. I'm doing more than that, though, you guys. Tell us. I'm training for Oceanside. I'm training for 70.1.3 World Championships.

I know, and when I ask you about your training, you're like, it's going well. We won deets. Well, unfortunately, I got sick on Friday, which was quite a punch to the gut. Yeah, almost literally. Because I was on a roll with training really well. Yeah, I can say my observations are that bike volume is, high bike training is going well. That's good.

Numbers are big. Excitement is in the air. I mean, whatever. I don't know what's going on in the swimming pool. I don't go there that often. I'm not really, Oceanside is not a benchmark and like a thing I need for determining the rest of the season, but it will be fun to go and do a race for the first time in a lot of months.

Even though the last thing, two times you went and you made us promise you that you would never go back again. It's true. Even if I win, I'm going to still say I hated that. It's just so painful. The bike course is so hard. The roads are kind of rough. The wind is gnarly. It's super roly.

It never ends. And also, and then the run, the nature of the run where you got to run past the finish line for lap two. Brutal. It never ends. It's the longest race on planet Earth. It is an awesome race. you're like way too fit for this time of the year.

If you happen to be that one person who's super fit, it's really fun. If you're as fit as you should be, it's going to be real uncomfortable at some point. Yeah, I think I always just roll into it not that fit, which is probably going to be the case this time, but that's okay. It does make you fit though. Yep. If it doesn't give you a stress fracture from all the concrete. Well, we got super shoes now. So those days are behind us.

That's true. It's, it's. You just cloud whatever your way to the finish line. no problem and no soreness. Nick, have you ever raced Oceanside? No. I was going to this year,

but then when I found out that it was St. George's last year and they were within a month of each other, I'm trying to see if I will do St. George. But next year I'd like to do Oceanside. Okay. Okay, well, that's it, folks.

We'll see you next week with more TTL fun and we'll be our Oceanside Prep podcast. We'll be all together. We'll be all together. Oceanside Race Week, special. Yeah. See you there.

Bye. Bye.