That Triathlon Life Podcast - Triathlon wind tunnel testing, swimming only once a week, cold therapy, and more!

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

This week we start by talking a bit about our experience in the Specialized Win Tunnel, and how we got more aero and efficient. We then answered your questions about what to do when accidentally dropping race nutrition, how to address returning to training after having COVID,  reaching ideal running cadence, and more! To submit your own question, as well as help support the podcast with your monthly subscription, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey, everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Paula Findlay. I'm Eric Larson. I'm Nick Goldston. We are here only a couple days after we recorded the last podcast. Nick is back in Santa Monica. Eric and I are in Bend. If you're new here, Eric and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a professional musician, amateur triathlete, and we have a lot of fun doing a lot of things. We answer your questions every week, and we got a lot of good ones today. Last week we talked a little bit about the wind tunnel, but I think I would love to take just the first few minutes here. What did we learn from it? What did we gain from it? What were we expecting and what do we actually get out of it?

And by we, I mean the two of you. In case someone just dropped in and wasn't listening to the other ones, we should just say that Eric and I are both sponsored by Specialized, and we just got back from the wind tunnel, which is like their aerodynamic testing. In-house, in their own headquarters. They have a wind tunnel. Hill. So we, yeah, we just got back from that yesterday, actually. Yeah. I think to say the major takeaway is that we need one of the new e-bikes that they just debuted. I agree. I think, wait, so the craziest thing happened here. We were at, like, the specialized headquarters after all the wind tunnel testing. And we see that there's like a little

party. Crucially, it also had cake. So we were attracted to this party. And I started talking to the people. We heard from the other side of campus that there was a party with cake. Right. And therefore we went. It also so turns out that they were debuting a new bike. Yes. So it's this like, it's called the Hall, ST, I believe. And I'll double double check that. And it's a super cool like cargo bike, e-cargo bike, like very high-powered,

e-cargo bike. And Eric and I were just like nerd and out over it. Very cool guys that were engineers there were super nice. Anyway, fast forward to yesterday, I go out to lunch with my friends and I see this bike that was debuted like two days earlier. Moments ago. And I'm like, I talked to the guy, I'm like, did you just buy this like yesterday? And he's like, oh, no, actually, I'm actually testing it for a friend.

So I had a, I saw it in the wild after seeing it debuted. It was just crazy. That's pretty cool. And we got cake out of this situation too. We're getting so off track here. I know, but it was so cool. This e-bike is so rad. My brain was just going crazy with like ways I could put cameras on it and get back into the wild with like the drone and all the stuff.

So we're getting one. But we were actually there to test our positions on our bikes and try to get a little bit faster at the same power by punching a smaller hole in the wind. That was the whole point of the arrow testing. Yeah, I don't want to reveal all of our secrets, but we did actually both find ways to be faster and more comfortable. I think when we went there, our goal wasn't just to get the lowest CDA as possible. It's to be comfortable in that position so you can hold it for a full half-iron man distance. So yeah, Eric's never been in there before. So it was cool to kind of get a baseline for him and then adjust positions from there to make it faster. And then

And personally, I could compare mine to last time when I was on a different bike altogether and got faster from that. Yeah. For me, I think, like, I got a bit faster in terms of like total watts saved and everything. But I feel significantly more comfortable in my time trial position now after the fit work that we did. And that combined with the aerodynamics, I think the net gain is going to be pretty significant. That's the hope anyway. Eric, you haven't ridden outside since because you haven't had a chance to because of weather. but did you do your intervals today on that bike with the new fit?

Yeah, I did. And I've kind of made a commitment to myself this year, or I should say, I guess, like I'm allowing myself when I do intervals on the trainer to not ride Arrow. And today was the first day that I actually tried to do a little bit of one of the intervals riding Arrow, just for whatever reason, like my pedal stroke or my brain or I'm not strong enough,

is I really, really struggled to ride Arrow and put out race power on the trainer and a set that's like three by 10 minutes. So I've just been letting myself sit up. And today I actually did attempt to ride Arrow. And it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. So that's a huge improvement over last year for sure. And then Paula, do you feel like, stop me if you think this is too behind the curtains here.

But something that we've all been told a million times is that going from a road helmet to an Arrow helmet is a huge, huge, huge aerodynamic savings. Yeah. But it seems like while that is, I'm sure that's true, we tested a few different helmets. And on both of you, the differences between like TT helmets was actually not that large. Even, I'm sure going from a non-TT helmet to a TT helmet, big jump. But between TT helmets, we were seeing like not huge differences. Not huge differences, but like a clearly defined fastest option. And we didn't test a bunch.

I think we had like three each to try and all those helmets that we try. are known to test really well. We had the Rudy Project, the Gero Aerohead, the specialized helmets, and the cask, Bambino. So, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, you're right. The differences between them aren't a lot, but visually when you're looking at the rider in

the tunnel with the helmet on, you can kind of already predict before the numbers get spat out, which one will work best just based on how it fits. And the wind tunnel also is a very, closed off environment obviously where you're not having to look up or look around or sit up and do things that you might do while you're riding outside. So that's taken into consideration to the shape of the helmet and maybe it's perfect while you're an arrow. But if you're looking around, you're the type of rider that really looks up the road, are you going to be able to hold the most arrow position for the whole ride? So there's a lot of factors with helmets, but you're right.

I think across the board, arrow helmets are better than road helmets for TT riding. Definitely. Paula, have you tried to ride since you got the fit? No, it's kind of sucks because we were in California. We stayed an extra day so that we could do some outdoor riding and kind of test the new positions, but it was torrential rain. Like, you couldn't even walk to the car without getting soaked. So we didn't bring gear for that kind of weather.

And when we got back here, Bent had dumped a foot of snow. So, no, we haven't ridden our TT bikes outside, but it is a factor. Like, I feel good about the changes. I feel really comfortable on the trainer. Unlike Eric, I do all my intervals in Arrow and I feel good about that. But outside is a whole different ballgame in terms of handling and feel,

especially for me, who is a little bit more nervous on my TT bike. So before I like lock in a final thing, I kind of have a few different options I can ride and I'll see what's best outside in terms of comfort. Yeah, fortunately we're coming down to Oceanside a fair bit early and we're going to stay with a good buddy who lives in Santa Monica.

Wow. He sounds handsome. he's a really great guy you'd like him and so we'll get to test those outside a little bit and we'll bring like both front ends like the one that Paul is used in the past which we did find a good position for

and then the new one that she kind of settled on and make sure that we're both comfortable riding outdoors before we actually jump in the race yeah I'm looking forward to that that's going to be fun it will be cool so I was going to move on to our segment here which is a little bit of this or that

this or that with TTF The lead with TTF. Totally intoxicated version. It's like drunk history, but... I haven't had any alcohol before this podcast. Wow. Wow, she's going and dry.

Okay, so this is actually from a listener, from Sarah, with weather being quite unpredictable at the moment. Yeah, no kidding. I was wondering about your preferred weather, climate, terrain, etc. Maybe this can be this or that with TTR, singing the jingle as I type. So, do you prefer training, running and biking? inside or outside in the following weather conditions.

So I'll go one by one and I'll give our answer here. All right. Okay, how about running in the rain? I'll take outside. Right now, I think I would run inside. Inside, okay? What about running in the snow? I'm always going to choose outside unless it's icy.

Okay. Outside in the snow is pretty fun. I do that. Same. I'm inside in the rain. Sorry, outside in the rain. Never treadmill outside in the snow too. What about strong winds?

I'll take outside. Nick, would you ever choose inside? No. Yeah, exactly. You would just not run. No, but I would choose inside on the bike potentially, but not on the run. If it's really strong winds, I'll run inside for a hard workout, but if it's just a chill run, then I'll go outside. Yeah.

Paula, what about you? Outside. Outside. And what about baking sun? Outside. Outside. Actually, I'm kind of more inclined to stay inside when it's hot. I do not like the heat.

And then outside when it's cold, you can just wear more layers and then you're creating body heat. I don't have AC here, so it's not that helpful for me to stay inside when it's hot. It's like worse. That's true. That's true. The garage does get pretty hot for us. Okay, so real quick now, what about biking in the rain, inside, outside? Inside.

That's for me inside. Inside. I've done too much of that in my life. Yeah, I don't. I had a bad experience this weekend with it. I'm just like, I don't want to do that again. Biking in the snow. Inside.

That was pretty fun. I'll go outside. The experience of how this has not been extensive. Can you mountain biking the snow with regular mountain bike tires pretty well? As long as it's not like six inches deep. Yeah, like for the most part, when we get snow here, it's like one inch or a dusting, and you can still go ride outside. So, yeah, you can put your PSI down pretty low on the tires and you're not getting wet.

You just put on lots of clothes and you're going slowly and it's not like when you're getting road spray and you're just miserable. Right. And what about Strong Winds, biking inside or outside? And I'd go outside. And baking sun inside or outside? That's easy outside, right? I'll go outside for that. Outside.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm like the opposite. Like I always like quit and go inside on the run pretty frequently, but I'll do anything in my power to go outside on the bike. Yeah, yeah, got it. Cool. Well, that was from Sarah. She said she was trying to keep it simple, stupid. That's one, Sarah.

Yeah, that was good. Quality. Those were qual, real qual. Next on to the questions, and you can submit your own questions and help support the podcast with your monthly subscription at That TriathlonLife.com slash podcast. Keep those coming. We always try to get to as many as we can here.

So we'll get right into it. The first one, nice palette opener here. I met a follow podcast listener at a conference where we heard Olaf Alexander B. who mentioned a few of the wild things they've done for improvement. What's the craziest thing you've done for any kind of triathlon gains? It's from Natalie. Nothing crazy.

We wear an arrow helmet. We do the things like the bare minimum to be on par with everyone. It's funny. It's not, it's like training 20 plus hours a week is not bare minimum. You know, like there's so many things that are just so part of, you to me and everyone that listens to this that are so part of our lifestyle that for people who, don't do is like this is all crazy. Like how much time are you spending a week on this?

This is unbelievable. Well, it's our job, Nick. So it's not crazy. I mean, and it's not overkill what we do. No, of course. But the people who are listening to this podcast, it's most of them, it's not their job. And they're still putting, not the time that you put in, but a crazy amount of time and effort waking up early on weekends for four hour rides and getting a swim in before work.

It's like, this is a huge amount of stuff to do for something that doesn't bring you any financial gain. It's just like, hopefully it brings you happiness. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I think the question was more along the lines. Like, have you ever done anything crazy like a dramatic diet or super advanced testing, stuff like that? And yeah, I think the craziest thing that I've done is when Paulo set up a heat tent in our garage in Poway and like crank that thing up to 110 degrees. Yeah, heat training. We would sit in there on the bike spinning it not as easy as I would want to until our core temperature eclipse a certain point and then you were done. Wow.

That was to try to get ready for the races that were like leading into Rio. Right. Got it. Yeah. Heat training stuff. I was also thinking like you guys, the wind tunnel, that's a pretty big thing, flying to another state to get aerodynamic or going to Flagstaff flying there and renting a place for a month for altitude training.

Those are pretty extreme things too for most people. I guess. I mean, it totally depends if you're thinking in terms. terms of compared to most people or compared to other professional athletes. Because if you're comparing to our competitors who are trying to beat, they're all doing the same thing too. So I don't think it's that crazy. But yeah, the wind tunnel is kind of cool because not a lot, not every athlete has access to that. And especially since the specialized one is in-house, I think a lot of athletes go to wind tunnels that their bike company or their wheel company kind of like rent out

or something or utilize it for one-off situations. But to have access to the one in Morgan Hill is really unique, I think, to Eric and I. So the craziest thing that we do that no one else does is we put out YouTube videos that I edit and shoot. We put out a podcast once a week and we do all this peripheral stuff that most people just like hire a person to do or just don't do. We don't have a manager. We do all that ourselves. That's probably the craziest thing that we do that is like our competitiveness. Not necessarily that translates to like on the field of play, but as pro-true.

athlete. Yeah, yeah, totally. That's true, Eric. Yeah, love that. Well, the next question here is from Allison. Hi, Paul, Eric, Nick and Flynn. Been listening since last fall during my nine-plus-hour drive up the East Coast of Timberman. Thank you all for the laughs to break up the drive.

How do you guys balance celebrations and training slash big races? Back in 2020 when Kona was canceled, Tim O'Donnell was able to celebrate his 40th birthday to his fullest in October, which got me thinking about the last decade of how he spent his birthdays, likely not indulging because he was in the last few weeks of Kona Prep. Where races have taken precedence over fully celebrating, aka letting loose for you guys. Birthdays, weddings, holidays, when the timings clash. From Allison. I pretty much didn't celebrate a birthday at home for like six years because WTS Hamburg was always on my birthday.

Which doesn't mean you can't celebrate your birthday though. But I wasn't celebrating it with my family like in the way that I was used to. You know, like I got out. I dropped out of college. I started doing trathon and pretty much pretty quickly was on the circuit doing that and missed tons of missed all my parents' birthdays while living in San Diego and all that stuff. And what about like did you not eat or drink the way that you would have if you were celebrating normally or did that not or did you kind of still do the same things you did before?

I mean in terms of my birthday. Yeah, like your birthday. Or just any holiday. Oh, I would say not. Like, we've, a lot of the times we, we've talked about this before, we try to, like, line up our offseason with, with the holiday times. And I've, when I'm home and with my family, I'm, like, fully in that mode. And I'm not, like, trying to just pretend like it's another training day.

I'm, like, trying to be there and be present for it and still get in whatever training I can. So I think that's done pretty well, but. When we celebrate, and probably similar to you, Nick, we're not, like, getting super, super drunk and, like, staying up all night and, and waking up the next morning hungover, it's like every night we're having treats. So to have like a birthday cake one night, it's not really that crazy. So I'd say any holiday,

yeah, we can have wine, we can have pizza, we can have birthday cake, because we trained for four hours that day and we can still wake up the next day and train. So I don't think we're so strict in our day-to-day that like a holiday means, you know, missing all of that.

I think that if we weren't training as much as we do, like I would put more effort into like making holidays special like Valentine's Day and Paul's birthday and just like any sort of excuse to like You still, you can still make those special. You know, I can. But what I'm saying is that like we get so like so I guess like having the blinders on at least I do of like, got to get through today, got to get through the next workout and everything that a lot of times like, oh my gosh

Easter's tomorrow or oh my gosh whatever the holiday is like I'm so terrible with holidays and they just come and go and on the day I'm going gosh I wish I would have thought

to do with this and not in the thing and it would be cool but kind of just you know you get caught up in it and miss it that's a different perspective than what this person is asking but I do think that's interesting

because they're asking like you know like what Paul is saying do we let loose or do we you know or do we hold ourselves back but what you're saying is and I agree with what Paul is saying, like, if all three of us retired from triathlon today and there was a holiday

tomorrow, I don't think we'd celebrate it any differently. Right, right. We still do what we, I mean, I don't know. Maybe I can't speak for you guys, but for me, I still have fun the way I want to have fun anyway. But Eric, what you're saying is you feel like you're a little bit missing out on the, like, the whole, the spirit of the holiday because you have so much going on already. Potentially, yeah. They just come and go. I feel like we do a really good job. And I don't, not to say that people do a bad job. But like relative to a lot of pro triathletes, I feel like we have like made a pretty concerted effort

to like live normal lives. And we did ITU and that was like very serious and living in a house with further people. And we did that. And when we made the switch to 70.3, we were kind of thinking, okay, this is going to be a sustainable job. And I want to have a real life and have some friends and have a dog.

And so I don't really feel that deprived. Even though there's like some of our friends might go out and do stuff a little bit more often than we do. but I consider like our lifestyle. We're extremely fortunate to be able to do what we do and like have kind of a relatively normal life while being professional athletes. Yeah, agreed. Agreed.

Next question here. Hi, TTR crew. I remember talk in one of the past pod episodes around run cadence. I've been checking my cadence recently and it's at around 150 to 156 strides per minute. Given I'm in Halifax, Nova Scotia, silly cold and not nice running outside, and currently relegated to the,

the dreadmill, what is a good cadence for running? And should this change indoors to outdoors? If I need to increase my cadence, what's the best way to do that? Thanks and got myself a TTL Devotech tea and a tri-short so I can support brilliant crew doing good things in triathlon, rich from Halifax. No, I think it's always a good thing to focus a little bit on increasing your cadence, and I will say that 150 is super low. Yeah.

So for this person that's running on the treadmill, I think, like for reference, and you don't have to do what I do, but when I'm doing a workout, it'll be 180. And if I'm just running easy, it'll be like 170. So I do kind of track it and my watch has it on the screen. So I'd say for this person, maybe aim to get it up to 160. And it doesn't really mean you have to increase your effort level necessarily. You're just increasing, you know, you're taking more steps per minute, but you're not putting more force into each step. So it can be a good way to prevent injuries because you're having like less force on each step. Yeah, I don't know. Even just thinking about it, naturally it'll go up.

So I would say try to increase it a little more than 150. Yeah, everyone's different. Like Paula said, the general number that people try to shoot for and it's going to be different is 180. And that's what you said you run at. For fast running. Here's my thing with that. You can instantly spot somebody who's like trying to run with a high cadence

and doing this like, ding ding ding ding ding dig dig dig dig like on their tiptoes in a strange way. And you just, from my perspective, you don't want to let that change your running form so much by like trying to run with this really high cadence at a really low effort. Like I think it's okay that it moves 10 or 15 strides per minute depending on if you're running nine minutes per mile or seven minutes. Yeah, it can for sure change. I would say a good trick for this person to increase it a little bit is to maybe do a 10 minute warm up and then do a couple of like 15 second strides where you put the treadmill

up faster and stand off the treadmill for 30 seconds, 15 second strides, stand off the treadmill. And then your brain will kind of be recalibrated because automatic. when the speed's higher, you're going to increase your cadence. And then bring it back down to whatever pace you're running, you'll naturally find it's up. So we could try that. And I don't think it should be different on the treadmill versus outside. I try to keep it pretty consistent.

Eric, do you think that even going as low as 150 is okay? I'd say that's pretty low. No, I'm just saying, like, don't kill yourself to do 180 because that's what it says in a book. Yeah. It's okay if you're at 170. Like most of the time when I'm running around, I'm around 170. and I have to be really running fast to hit 180.

Yeah, I would say for this person, don't try to just jump to 180, but increase it by 5 or whatever it is. And for me, the advice that worked when I was trying to do a similar thing was to listen to playlists that are specifically at the BPM. There's a ton of these made for running.

Oh, yeah, we have said that before. A lot of the watches also have a metronome where you can set it at something and it buzzes every whatever to let you know that you're still on cadence. Yeah. But that might be, that's like exactly the opposite. of the advice that Eric is giving, which is to like

listen to your body and let your speed kind of... I think different people might need different things for that. I agree. It was helpful to have the watch. Yeah. And if you're on the treadmill, it's so boring. It's like something else you can think about. So it's not bad. Do treadmills give you cadence?

No, I don't think so. No. They could, though. Yeah, just like they feel the... Some of the smart treadmills, yeah. But I don't think they do. Yeah. Cool. Okay, next one's a short one here from Quinn. I see you guys do a lot of hot tubbing. do you ever do cold therapy?

I've been starting to jump in my unheated pool, not negative, sorry, 50 degrees Fahrenheit, after hard workouts, and I swear I feel a difference in recovery. What do you have thoughts on cold therapy in general and how to implement it? Quinn. This is a really hot topic right now.

But I think generally speaking, it has been disproved or it's no longer encouraged to do ice baths immediately after a hard workout because theoretically you want your body to get good at processing all those byproducts of that hard workout and recovering and healing itself versus yeah you can take a little bit of the inflammation away by getting in a ice bath in your legs theoretically

but studies have kind of shown that like that could potentially stunt your body's natural response to healing after the exercise. So that's one train of thought. That's one train of thought. The other one is like this person feels way better when they go in cold water after workouts. And a lot of this is, I don't want to say a placebo effect,

but if you think it's helping and you feel better, it definitely has an advantage. And some people really enjoy it. Like, it's not even just the recovery aspect, but they feel so rejuvenated afterwards that it is worth it. And sometimes contrast therapy, like hot to cold can be good

and kind of flush some of the, I don't know, stuff out of your body. I remember reading about that, yeah. Yeah. Kind of what I have identified a little bit with, or like I'm connecting with a little bit with the whole ice bath thing is like this concept of relaxing while being in that situation and being able to control your breathing and kind of like get into this Zen place

and take yourself away from just focusing on like the pain essentially of the coldness. And I do think that's a powerful kind of like meditation. For sure. And I have found that like just anecdotally, what I've kind of liked doing after we do our heart, hot tub sessions for a number of reasons, but we'll do the hot tub session and then I'll go take an ice cold shower and just try to be in that shower for like 90 seconds or two minutes. And I feel

like I sleep super, super well after that. And when I'm taking that shower, I'm just like kind of trying to breathe normally and relax and be in it. And it is like a pretty powerful thing to to have that moment of realization where you're like, okay, I can do this. It's very cold, but I'm focusing on my breathing and I'm not panicking. So. It's such a good analogy for trying to maintain a difficult effort in a race too. Yeah. Yeah, anything. Yeah, anything.

I can think of it kind of like mental training a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I like, I dig that aspect of it. Yeah, cool. So you guys do do it every once in a while. Paula, do you as well? Like, do you experiment with that? Not really, no.

No, I used to do ice baths a lot more frequently when I was running. And like anytime we'd go to a cross-country meet or a track meet, I'd sit in the ice tub or have a ice cold shower in the morning. And I think a lot of that was just like neurologically waking up and feeling, you know, ready to go. And it was routine as well if it's something that makes you feel like, okay, I'm at a race. I'm ready to do this. Or after a workout, it, yeah, I don't know. I don't think they're bad.

But I don't think they're necessary either. They're kind of like Norma-Tec boots. I'd totally get into it if we had like one of those, like a super sweet ice tub. Right. It actually had filtration and didn't have to dump out and refill and fill with ice and the whole thing. Like, I totally get into it. So on Instagram, they get ad fed to you if you start talking about ice baths. Oh, uh-oh.

Sorry, everybody. Yeah, you're going to see like whatever they are, $5,000 cold tubs you can put in your backyard. Yeah, that's right. Cool. Next question here is from Andrew. During the pandemic, I got my coach certification from USAAT and have really enjoyed helping beginners and new beginning triathletes to get in on our sport. Nick, we met at the Malibu Triathlon.

Oh, very nice. Eric and Paul, my question is, I'm starting to work with more athletes remotely. What are the best things coaches have said to you or done for you while it's working with you from afar? How might I best demonstrate my commitment to my athletes, not just as swim bike runners, but as real people, if we don't meet in person often or at all? Thanks for thinking about including this question and see you out and about this season. Andrew. Nick, I think you could answer this too because you have kind of a remote coach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You guys are more important. So you go first and then I'll give my two sides. No, no, no, no. I feel like we're taking all the answers. But it is an interesting perspective to think of it from the athlete. Like what do we like from our coach and we don't see him day to day? He actually did come to the wind tunnel. So we saw him last week. But what are things that are effective for distance coaching when you're communicating via training peaks or WhatsApp or whatever it is. The biggest thing for me is just transparency and frequent communication. And I know that's maybe not. not realistic for every coach who's coaching like 20 or 25 athletes, but Paulo is really good about answering within like 30 minutes or less anytime there's a question. So even if it's pre-workout and you're feeling something off or you don't feel great and you want to check in, he's there and available. So he's very, very committed as a coach.

It's kind of like his biggest thing in his life. So I feel like he's always on call. He has athletes all over the world. so on every time zone, he's kind of reachable. So, yeah, that's the biggest thing for me is feeling like I'm never alone in making decisions, even if he's not physically there. Yeah. I'm not a huge, I'm not an excellent communicator with him, but getting better.

Part of what I like about Paulo is that a lot of times he's not going to, he's not going to bug me a bunch. He's going to ask me occasionally how things are going, and I really do appreciate that when he gets, when I get a text and he's like, how is that bite? session or I looked at that power file nice job on that bike session that makes me feel super super good but I also didn't want a coach and part of the reason I signed up to work with Paula that was going to be like helicopter all around just like how are you feeling about this workout how's it going to go you know and it's just like super super in there so anyway I don't know I kind of lost my train of thought but I really appreciate it when he actually reaches out and asks how the workout went for the day

and that's like maybe once every couple weeks but that feels good to know that he's thinking about it and he's not just like kicking me a schedule and then looking the other way. It's different for age athlete, obviously. We have both different answers. So I think that for a coach, it's key just to learn the athlete and learn what they need and what they like and what kind of communicator they are, whether they're like Eric, who's a little bit more hands off or like me who likes more day-to-day communication and kind of like act accordingly. Paul, I think that's exactly, that's, that really clicked when you said that. It's like trying to understand each individual person

and not applying these blanket rules to all your athletes. Yeah, like seeing what he's one of the... Because I feel like I'm more like Eric. Like my coach, Kyle, when I've really, like, crush a workout, he'll be like, you know, he'll text me or something.

You're like, wow, you really went for those intervals or something like that, or he asked me how I feel. I do like that. And also, like, I mean, for you guys, it's already dialed in. But for me, when I, when he'd like prescribed one of the first weeks, he prescribed like, it was like four times 800. swimming. It was just like boring Friday. Go four times

800. I texted him. I was like, dude, I can't do that again. That was the worst thing. I'm so mind-numbing. Just lie to me and break it up in some other way, but it's like the same thing. Like I can't just mentally do that. And then from then on he's like totally and it's been more entertaining, you know, air quotes, entertaining to do that.

I feel like just listening to what they want and treating them as people. It seems obvious, I guess. But I like what Paul said. It was just like Some people need more communication. Some people just want to be left to their own thing, and then you just check in with them. Totally. Next question here from Chris in Camloops, BC. Hey, gang, love all the content you guys are putting out.

I especially love that. I now know that I'm not alone and having to drag myself to the pool. Yeah, I think we've really beaten that one to death, haven't we? Question for the podcast. Why is there no fun run option for triathlon? on. Why can't someone swim with buoyancy shorts for a non-wetsuit swim or draft on the bike if they are in the middle or back mass of athletes that aren't competing for money or rankings? I did a race in Victoria and saw a pair of riders get a warning for drafting. Clearly they were just out there supporting each other. So why can't us mere mortals in the sport whose only goals to finish have altered rules? Thanks, Chris. First of all, what is a fun run? Yeah, this is an interesting question. I kind of liked it because it's true.

We all are very, what is a fun run is just a run to that like, placing literally doesn't matter at all. You're all just there and you're participating. Yeah. It's like a group ride. And I'd say there are a percentage of people that are in triathlon also trying to just accomplish across the finish line. But I think the concept of like having no rules or having more loose rules for people

that are like that, it's just like where do you draw the line? And I think it's a more, I don't know, wholesome, all-inclusive thing if we're all just abiding by the same rules. And they're not there to necessarily make it harder for you. They're there to make it safer and to just make it more consistent across every single race that you do. So if you're allowed to wear buoyancy shorts in this race and draft in this race and wear whatever in this race, like it's just not a consistent result across different things. And it's really hard to officiate as well if you have some professionals in this race. the race or the top age groupers trying to place and abide by the rules and then other people who just want to finish. I don't know. How do you please that? It's impossible. I think it's important.

I think it's important to note here that this concept does exist and it's your local triathlon. It's not an Iron Man branded event. People go to Iron Man branded events to do exactly the entire brand. The whole train of thought is exactly what Paul was talking about. People want to go to Kona. People want a place in their age group. It's very time focused versus if you go to the bunny lake whatever sprint trathlon just down the street from your house there's a good chance

nobody is going to care if you wear buoyancy shorts or talk to somebody on the bike or whatever you want to do that's your fun run that's your enjoyable trathlon experience unfortunately it's not an MDOT event I think the issue here too

is that there's no equivalent so for like fun run you're not changing the rules and you're not like assisted in your running you know it's not like they're on a on a elliptical bike or something like that when they're out there.

I don't know if you've ever seen those. So drafting on the bike is a, it's like a very big advantage. Boiency shorts are like swimming with paddles or a snorkel. There's like, that changes the actual like dynamic of the thing. And for me,

like the drafting on the bike, like you said, Paul, that is more dangerous. It feels more dangerous when you're understanding is that that's not going to happen. Yeah. I'm with this guy.

I'm with this guy. There needs to be more triathons. I mean, if he can't find one. Like there needs to be more trathons that are there just, to not have a winner, just everybody get out and have a good time. Like, that's what got me into the sport in the first place.

Doing a local triathlon. It was not about, like, who won or who did what. It was just like everybody was out there having a good time. For sure, but there are some parameters in every single sport about rules and having a little bit of, like, organization, I guess. So it's not just a total free-for-all. And it makes you feel more legitimate when you cross the line. You haven't just...

I guess your answer is go to a good. gravel race where you can draft and it's just fun. Rathons is not the one. I'm wondering if the kind of people that are attracted by triathlon are not the same people that want the race to be non-competitive. Yes. Maybe. Yeah, yeah, maybe.

Whereas running is like a much more inclusive and low barrier for entry sport. Yeah. Much more people run than do travel. Yeah, yeah, of course. Next question here is from Will. I have a very challenging swim question for all you. Need some expert help. My situation.

Two toddlers under four without much child care support, plus running a business with my wife and live in rural area where nearest pool is almost an hour away. Oh, God. Brutal. Yeah, brutal. My question, I have two 70.3s coming up in June and July. Until the river we live on warms up enough for open water swims,

I can make it to the pool just one morning per week for up to two hours. What should I do with the time to be best prepared for my races? Keep up. Awesome content. Will from Virginia. I like this question because it reminded me of COVID a little bit and all of the cool things we did to kind of stay swim fit or at least strengthen the muscles you use to swim outside of the water. And you can do it really effectively actually. And so utilize that morning at the pool.

I wouldn't say you need to go and swim for two hours straight just to get the most out of it. That could lead to like injury even. Like we don't swim for two hours ever. but outside of that every other day you could do stretch cords you could do planks like some core routine that kind of is conducive to swimming so that when you go swim once a week you're not feeling totally foreign in the water and feeling like kind of floundering um we actually borrowed that thing from jordan a vaza would be sweet if you could get one vasa trainers are cool but we had a super low budget one um it was called like the total body i think and it's kind of just like

a slider on a slant. It's not even really meant for swimming, but you can use it to like do pull-ups almost, similar to Avasa, but using gravity instead of like the super advanced pulleys that are within that whole system. And I think it was really good

for staying swim fit when we were quarantined. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. I can't think of what it was called. I think it was the total body. Like Jordan got it on Craigslist for like 20 bucks and we at least didn't like let our swim muscles completely atrophy. Yeah.

We had some swim strength. And we've talked about that before. It's like what comes first, like the technique or the strength in the pool. So if you at least show up to the pool and your like lots are pretty freaking strong, like you've got to jump start on actually maybe being able to hold some form as you're practicing it every four days. Yeah. I would say utilize that time where you're actually at the pool to do a little bit of like race-paced type swimming. Like don't just go and do drills for an hour.

Get some kind of aerobic benefit out of the swim. and then on the other days do stuff at home, it could be as short as 15 minutes, and you can get a lot out of that. Yeah. That's hard, though. That's hard. Once a week is hard.

That's brutal. Well, I think it's just temporary because when the river warms up, you can swim in the river, it sounds like. Yeah. So in this kind of like more off-season time, I think it's okay. I mean, it has to be okay.

That's his only option. And then with the time in between. I like that, yeah, of course. With the time in between, you can be smart and do some other, activities to yeah stretch your shoulders make sure you're gonna be good to go

get a real good wet suit so you float yeah if anything COVID taught us that swimming is a bit overrated we spent weeks out of the pool months out of the pool got back in and didn't feel that bad but through that time we were maintaining

our swim specific muscles otherwise yeah cool next question is from Maggie I'm out for the season recovering from ankle surgery so I've decided to spend my time volunteering at local tries, trail races, and Ironman events. That's nice. Signed up to do a bunch of different things and will likely interact with the pro field a bit at Boulder 70.3.

I've never volunteered at a race before, and I'm wondering if there are things you have all experienced that volunteers have done that you really loved. What about things that drove you crazy? It can be at any point before, during, or after a race. Thanks so much, Maggie. This is similar to the coaching question. From our perspective, what do we like? Just being really friendly.

Yeah. Like you're, like, we're walking in there and we're stressed out of our minds because we're, like, trying to get to an interview and we got to go find dinner and the million things. And when somebody's just like, hey, how's it going? And it's just over-the-top, bubbly and friendly, it like snaps you out of that. And you remember that triathons fun a little bit and it's really nice. I rarely meet volunteers that aren't friendly at most triathons. Yeah. And when they are, it really, really makes a difference. I could tell you that for sure.

But I could imagine volunteering is extremely exhausting. It's a hugely kind way to donate your time and help these events run. And in return, I think the athletes, whether it's us or everyone else, should be friendly in return. And I don't think all athletes are, like really appreciative of what they're doing. And I certainly am. But yeah, hopefully it'll be returned to you, the friendlier you are to people that they'll be friendly back. But yeah, that's really the only thing. I wonder if people know that these triathlon races of any kind, they do not work without volunteers.

Like sometimes races don't get enough volunteers and the race can't happen. Yeah. I think people know, but sometimes it's easy to forget while you're all caught up and what you've got to do on pre-race day. Yeah. You got your things going on to not remember that those people are taking time out of their day to try to be there and make your day better. And a lot of the time if something's not going smoothly or something's taking long, longer than usual. It's not the volunteer's fault. Right, right.

So that's something to keep in mind to for all other athletes. Can you think of something that has been said to either of you or that could be said to either of you that would have good intentions but is not something you want to hear? That's tricky. I'm thinking of like when it's like a marathon, you're mile three

and they're like, you're almost there. It's like, okay, that doesn't help. I'm not almost there. You know it. I know it. I mean, that would be the only thing. is giving bad information when you're like three miles away and you're like you got one mile ago

Oh right They're thinking like they're helping you mentally Incorrect info Yeah Right But who knows if they're If they actually think that Or they're just wrong or what

But you know Again like don't just Just be cool about it Athletes Because everybody's trying hard Yeah Yeah Yeah

Eric Maybe a little off topic here and maybe we just won't put this on the podcast, but I was just thinking about your bike pacer guy at Santa Cruz, who you were talking to. He's, I guess technically he's a volunteer. Yep. I don't know.

Do you want to tell that story? Is that bad? I don't know. I just kept asking him if he could see the person behind me, you know? Because I was leading the run and the guy, and I knew Tim O'Donnell and Matt Sharp were behind me running pretty fast and stuff. And I kept being like, you know, whatever. Can you see him?

Can you see him back there? And the guy just got annoyed with me. I was like, you're running really fast. They're not going to catch you. I'm like, dude, maybe it looks good, but I am at any moment I could completely fall apart here. Like, I'm absolutely at my limit. I don't think the bike volunteers are supposed to give you information about anything. So he's just doing it.

He's supposed to do it. I mean, he started it. At one point, he was like, you're dropping him. And then I'm like, all right, you're going to give me some information. And like, can you see him back there? I can't remember all the things that I was asking. But, but yeah, I was mostly just, can you see them? Because I wasn't getting, because, let me, that's the hard part about being the lead of the race.

Everybody behind you is getting 45 seconds down, 75 seconds down. And you're just, have no freaking idea. You have no idea whatsoever. And you're just going as hard as you can and running scared the whole time. So I think it's fair to ask, can you see anybody behind me? Right. Yeah, that is fair. That is fair.

I just, I think, Eric, you have to think of the perspective. He's probably never seen someone run that fast in his life. So he's like, oh, this guy is the fastest guy on earth. No one's catching him. Totally. He's not going to get caught. This was just a unique situation where I went out real hard and was just hanging on for dear life.

Yeah. Oh, that's great. That's great. Okay, next question here. It's from Aaron. This is a doozy. Hey, TTL dudes and dudette. Day one are here.

I have a question about something that I don't actually think has come up on the pod, but that a lot of pro triathletes seem to have bow. with last year. COVID. I was in the middle of big race build for marathon, not triathlon, and I got really, really bad case that laid me up in bed for a week and then had me coughing and wheezing and spitting up gunk for a week after that. Sorry, true story, despite being five times vaccinated. I know Eric and Paul have not gotten this, and Nick has, but I'm wondering if you might be able to draw anonymously on the stories you heard last year from fellow pros or amateurs about building back after this particular sickness we now all have to deal with. Swimming actually

feels the best. Why? Why is it always swimming? But that is not going to get me run fit. Any insider tips you guys might have and able to offer would be super appreciated. Love everything you do. Thrill for all of your success, Erin. Yeah, I would say that the biggest mistake people make, not just pro athletes, but everyone is just getting back to it too quickly. And when you have a race on the schedule, it's really easy to get totally single-focused on that one thing and maybe rush back a little too quickly, when in reality, you should have just taken that race off the schedule. And I think there's a few pro-lishter athletes that I know anyway that got COVID, especially when you're professional, and this is how you make your money,

and this is how you make your living. It's what you're doing every single day. So it's hard to just scratch something off the list. And everyone's experience with COVID is so different. Some people do recover within a week and feel okay. So you think, well, I can get through this and still be at a race in a month. But I think listening to your body and really playing it by ear for your own self is important and not being afraid to take races off the schedule if you have to until you're truly feeling 100% in training because there's nothing worse than having your training compromised, going to a race, not very fit, pushing your body to its absolute limit. So maybe you're not recovering again there. And then just having it linger and having the effects go on and on and

That's like I can't speak from personal experience because I haven't had COVID, but I think that's what I would do if I did get it is just air on the side of way more caution than I would if I was just had a cold. Eric, have you heard from anyone their experience with this? No, not really. And I haven't really probed anybody who has gotten it. Yeah. I would treat it the same way, though. It'd be like stress fracture.

I'd be like, okay. This is a long timeline. I'm completely letting go of anything that is in the immediate future. My number one goal right now is to get back to feeling normal. Forget about training. Like I'm on vacation until further notice. Yeah. That's good advice.

Treat it like a stress fracture a little bit because that's like six weeks recovery for a stress fracture, right? For me, it was, and I didn't have a super severe case, but I was like in bed for a while. I was like three or four weeks before I was able to train again. And I've, yeah. My body was definitely letting me know that I need. to not be training. It wasn't that complicated or hidden of a decision to make for me. Right, right, right.

I think that you're good at that, Nick, just listening to something and not forcing it if you know it's truly not right. I have a couple of friends, and one of them is like a pretty high-performing amateur athlete that is dealing with long COVID now, and I think it's been like a year, and I think he's mostly over it now.

But he said the same exact thing you said, Paula, is like he made the mistake of trying to get back to it too quickly, because he's used to being this high-performing athlete. And then he extended. Is that how you get long COVID? Is that by not treating it properly at first and then it becomes that? Or is it like you've got a strain of COVID that is long COVID and no matter what it's going to last? I think that's definitely a factor.

Yeah, I don't think there's a strain of COVID that gives you long COVID. Oh, it's how you treat your COVID. We are talking way out of our expertise here. But my understanding is that some people react to the virus differently and they get long COVID. it and I think it can be made better or worse by how you treat it. Okay. That makes sense. I have a brother and sister who are both dealing with long COVID now too, but they're

not high performing athletes. Yeah, but even day to day, we have a few friends also who aren't high performing athletes and it affects even your ability to go for a short run, you know? Yeah. Oh, oh, 100%. It affects your ability to build the stairs. Or a bike ride or be active. Yeah, it's crazy.

So that is something we don't want to get. Yeah. Okay. next question here is from Camille. What's up TTL? I can't believe it's been a year of the podcast and it's just as if not more fun to listen to y'all each week. Keep it coming.

Oh, thank you, Camille. I've recently started going to an Olympic-sized pool as it's the most convenient one in the city for me, but I'm used to structuring my workouts for 25-meter pools. How do y'all adjust your swim workouts for the 50-meter length? Wishing you all the best with training. Peace from Vienna, Austria. Whoa, that's cool.

I like this question a lot, our pool kind of like randomly switches between short course meters and long course meters on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Thursdays. And we don't know sometimes before we show up what length the pool is going to be. The shock and terror. The shock of long course meters. The good thing is long course meters is a really, really good thing. It makes you really fit in the water. I think that if people could choose what kind of pool they could swim in, long course would be the one.

But it's much more rare and difficult to find a pool that's set up that way. consistently. So I'd say you're lucky, first of all, that you have access to that. I don't know. What do we do, Eric? For the most part, our coach doesn't really structure workouts to be done in short course pools. I think he pretty much writes all of his workouts with long course in mind or at least to be easily executed in long course. Occasionally we'll have some 75s. And in that situation, we just stop in the middle of the pool. Luckily, our 50 meter pool at 25 meters, you can stand up. And you just stop in the middle of the pool for 10 seconds and restart.

Yeah. I think she's talking more in terms. Which is entertaining. For sure, yeah. She might be talking more in terms of long course meters is much more difficult and slower, obviously. Yeah. There's a really high likelihood that if we have like five, four hundreds and it's a long course meters, we're going to switch that to like 200s or something.

Yeah. You would adjust the distance a little bit. The distance, not the expectations of what pace you're going to hold. Oh, definitely the pace as well. It's definitely proven to be slower to do long course meters versus short course meters even. Yeah. And it's mentally harder too because until you get used to it. It's a lot more challenging. Like for example, we had 2100s hard last week. We did it short course meters. And to me that was kind of easy to wrap my head around. It was on 130. I was getting 20 seconds rest. But then you switched to doing that session long course, like what we did yesterday. And it is five seconds slower. Therefore, what I would adjust is the intervals for this person. Like if you're used to doing hundreds on 130,

put them on 135 long course, and that's pretty much equivalent. And same with your pace times. If you're swimming 110 short course meters, swim 115 long course meters. Just accept that's going to be the way it is. And we're talking meters to meters, not if you're swimming in short course yards,

but if you're in Austria. It's fine and interesting that five seconds, even meters to meters. So the wall push is, it counts for a lot. Really counts for a lot. I don't know if that's like a scientific conversion, but that's my personal experience with conversion. Yeah. So just like be a little bit more lenient with your times, I guess, if you're in the long course pool. It's funny.

What my brain went to when I read this was the thing that you guys showed me to do with paddles. Like you swim with paddles and you leave one paddle on one side and then you go back to that paddle and then get both paddles again and then leave the paddle at the other. side of the pool. I see you guys do that where you leave either pull buoy or a kickboard on like the opposite side of the pool. I don't feel mentally that would break it up for me. Oh, for sure. It's something to think about. That's all swimming is, is like you're swimming next to somebody so you can look at them while you flip turn and wonder how far behind her head you are and just like tricks. Tricks. Anything to think about what you're not, not what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Cool. And last question here is from Adrian.

Dear Eric Paul, Nick and Flynn, I have a question related to race strategy. Almost every other week I hear a pro mention in their race recap that they lost the nutrition during the bike and that this compromised the race. My question is the following. As a pro, if you notice your nutrition falling, wouldn't it make sense to lose 30 seconds to stop and recover it or does stopping result in greater downside, i.e. losing the group slash train you're in, slotting back in, more unfavorable position, etc. From own experience, I've always thought that stopping to recover.

cover the nutrition is more beneficial in the long run, especially during long-distance races. Lots of hugs from Switzerland, Adrian. I have stopped to get my nutrition. Really? For two reasons. On a bike? Yeah, to have it, and also to not get a littering penalty. And, I mean, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus, but if, let's say you did notice

your nutrition dropping, you didn't stop and get it, and then your excuse for your performance was that you dropped your nutrition. It's a lot. It's a lot of excuses there. You know, it's like, I think, well, if we just want to throw out a rough number, like, 50% of the time, yes, true. 50% of the time, that's a great thing to say when you're, like, really upset and don't know why your race didn't go well. Right. It really breaks your momentum to stop, go back on your bike and pick up a bottle.

Yeah. It's really shitty, but I think. Especially with pack dynamics the way they are now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the littering penalty is an interesting thing. That's more my concern because that's like, is it two minutes for a little? littering, unintentional littering. I mean, even if it's one,

yeah, it's huge. And if a ref is nearby and it's, even if a bottle launches off your back, that is still a littering penalty. So it's one thing if you don't notice it, but if you do notice it, you probably should go back for it. And it's one thing if it's, if it's water, you can get water at an aid station further up, but if it's like your calorie dense nutrition, yeah, it might be worth going to get in.

Imagine dropping the nutrition. not going to get it because you're going to lose 30 seconds. And then you get a two-minute littering penalty. Now you don't have the nutrition and you've lost the time. Yeah, I think that's the most common. That's the most common situation. That's a killer combo. A lot of the time it is like because the roads are rough that bottles are launching.

And I would say there is a solution to that. And it's just to secure things more securely. Bottles don't have to launch. There is the technology to hold bottles in super strongly. We have put in many, we have put in a lot of time making sure that our bottles don't launch. And then even so, like on races like Alcatraz or Oceanside where it's very bumpy, anytime that I think of it, I'll reach back to my rear hydration bottle and just like give it a little shoved to make sure that it's fully in the thing and just like being cognizant and paying attention to that.

So it doesn't just like slowly wiggle its way out. Yeah. Yeah. Over 50 miles. And then heads up, like really try not to hit potholes, really not try not to hit expansion cracks. There's like... There's things you can do to be safe.

Can you think of the last time it actually happened to you? Well, the time that I'm referring to when I went back and got it, I was actually leading St. George 70.3 like four years ago and I had the lead motorcycle referee literally right next to me as I went over the cattle guard. This is before they like repaved that first few miles

of the course and everything. It was so brutal. It was like me and then like 30 seconds back it was Rudy von Berg and I had to stop and he went it buy me and then the yeah it's just yeah the unintentional littering penalty is pretty brutal but I mean it is fair

you just have to secure your stuff I actually put like a strip of Velcro on my down tube aerobottle and then on the bike so that it kind of like stays in there better and has the less chance of popping off it's not hard to pull it off but it's pretty impossible for it to pop

off with the Velcro yeah Eric was that your invention no Paul actually invented Oh, I did? I invented that. I feel like you did it on the down tube one. I maybe gave you the idea, I don't know, but I did it on her back bottle at one point because we were experimenting around with a bottle cage that she could get the bottle out of. Specialized actually has this side winder where you can pull the bottle off the side

instead of having to go straight back with it, but then it could launch a bottle really easily. So we were experimenting with putting Velcro inside of the bottle cage and on the side of the bottle. And it was a whole thing. Yeah, it's really tough for me because I have a really hard time. accessing the bottle on the back. I find it really hard to, like, reach back to a gorilla cage and pull back to get it out. And I get super frustrated. It takes a little bit of bike skills to be able to do that. Oh, yeah. So for me, it's like a little bit of a problem with having enough nutrition on the bike because I have a really tough time getting that bottle out. Whereas most

athletes just, they could like pull it out, drink, and put it back. They're so skilled. Yeah. When I see that, I'm kind of, I'm impressed with that when I see that, though, like really quickly just boom and right back in. I mean, we've seen prominent pros who struggled to put the bottle back in and behind them. Oh, that's, yeah, like me. Yeah, for example, like you. For example, me. Zero bike skills. Anyway, that's a fun question. No clear answer, but yeah, go back and get your nutrition. I think, yeah. If you're an aid trooper especially, I think go back and get it. Yeah, totally. Totally. especially like they said in long distance races.

But yeah, thank you for that question. And those are all our questions for this week. And this is definitely the closest proximity we've ever recorded to podcasts. We did it on Wednesday night and today's Sunday. Yeah, we're doing it tonight because we have kind of a busy week. But we still got tons of questions within three days. So we have lots of good ones to choose from. And last thing is we've talked about this a little bit already,

but we put out the development team. put out kits on Friday, had so many people. It was actually our biggest week of sales with TTL. That's how many kits we sold, which is really cool for us. The thing I'm excited for is having people in the wild wearing the stuff. I think it's going to be so cool. So cool. I've kind of finished going through all the applications and narrowed it down to 20 or so that we have to look at more carefully, but we had over 200. And reading all of those. Guys, Paula has been every waking minute that we're not eating or trying to. training going through these.

Yeah, I must say it's like super touching to read all of the in-depth applications of people have put so much time and effort into. It's really cool. So thank you to everyone who sent stuff in. I'm enjoying it, reading through all of it. And there's just some super, super good, really applicable candidates. So if we don't choose you, don't take it personally. But yeah, we're excited to kind of narrow it down to five.

I can't believe the caliber of some of the athletes that we've whittled it down to. You know, like the expectation, like kind of the person that I had in mind is not going to make the cut based on just like how good some of the applications are with people where they're already at and what they're doing. Not that we want people that are like winning 70.3s already necessarily. But just people that have like are very new to being professional and already having really good races. And also just linking to everyone's Instagram was interesting because on the application that was one of the things. And if we went and see that people really like sharing the journey, you can tell instantly on someone's Instagram.

Not that we need influencers and social media experts to make the cut. But I think that is kind of a part of it for us is just some brand awareness and some willingness to kind of develop in that arena as well. Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing for me with that is it's not necessarily you promote. voting yourself. It's that we are getting TTL Nash behind you and they want to know what you're doing.

They want to have updates. Like if people have bought kits to support athletes in their journey, like they want to see the journey. And it's not you tooting your horn or anything like that. It's just like, here's what I'm doing. I'm chasing the dream. And like what I've experienced and when I've talked to people just like on group rides or whatever and they're, you know, and they want to, you know, back in the day, like somebody gave me shoes from Adidas. and stuff. People just get psyched when you're chasing your dream. Yeah. And they want to feel some of that energy and that excitement. And that's, that's, I think, such a cool core part of what this program is going to do. So yeah, being able to

share what you're doing in real time is huge. Yeah. I just had this image of like a race course that maybe has loops, like bike loops or running loops, and seeing and someone in one of the development kits, one of the five athletes, running through the field and, you know, maybe, like lapping certain age groupers and those age groupers having the TTL kit that helped support that person and that person feeling like this is why I'm able to do this. That would be the ultimate. Of course. And then the opposite too. The age grouper feeling like, oh my God, look how fast she is. I helped her get there. Like I'm part of the reason she's able to do it. Like that must feel, I feel like it's going to work both ways really well. I really hope so. That's the vision.

Yeah. What if, Eric, what happens if one of these people runs by you in a race? It could happen. You say, hey, hey, hey. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, not at all. Hold your horses. No, not at all.

And that's like, that's part of the thing, right? Like maybe somebody's signed up who's got really good race results, but really needs help with, yeah, how to make a tweet. I don't know. And then maybe somebody else signs up who, like, we think has got really good potential in terms of storytelling, but, like, their results look like they haven't quite popped a big one yet. Like, we want to have a little bit of a mix and identify it that, you know,

like Paul and I both had very different trajectories in the sport, and there are a lot of different personalities and profiles of people that could ultimately be successful. And you're kind of all headed in a general direction, but there are different ways to get there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited to see it.

We'll have more updates soon, but yeah, for now, thank you again for listening everybody and for supporting us. And yeah, it doesn't have to be in the form of a kit or financials or subscribing or anything. Just listening is. huge for us. Thank you and we will chat with you in a week. I'll catch you next week.

Bye-bye.