That Triathlon Life Podcast - TTL development team and TTL Tri kits, intermittent fasting in triathlon, when to upgrade your bike, and more!

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

This week we are all together on the same bed in a hotel room, right near the Specialized Win Tunnel, where Eric and Paula are getting their race positions dialed in. We also are very proud to announce the birth of the TTL development team. Of course, we also got to answer your questions about Strava monthly fitness, good snack foods for an endurance athlete on the go, running recovery on the Lever, and more! To help support the podcast, as well as submit your own questions, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey everybody. Welcome to that triathlon live podcast. I'm Eric Lauggestrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldston. And we are coming to you live from the courtyard Marriott in Morgan Hill. We're all three on our single bed in the hotel room. So this is one of those wonderful podcasts. We're all in the same room. It's super intimate. And we're looking forward to it. And you forgot to mention it's 9.15 p.m. and we're just starting.

Right. Well, we kind of had a full day because we flew into Morgan Hill last night. We got in about 10 p.m. And then we woke up. We had time for a bagel sandwich. And then we went straight to the wind tunnel. And we have been there all day long. Yeah, we were at the wind tunnel from 8.30 a.m. until like 7.30 p.m.

Went and got some Chipotle. And Nick had this genius idea that we should wait till Wednesday to record the pod. Excuse you. Because we'd all be together. And it would be more intimate. And here we are. Committed to the Thursday drop. But yeah, we're excited to be here.

It's always a fun time. And we're going to whittle this down to be a little bit shorter than normal so we can go to bed at a normal time. And we're going to chat a little bit about what we did today, right? Well, first of all, I feel like as someone who had not been to the wind tunnel before, I feel like we need to paint a picture of what it's like in there because it's, I kind of thought it would be this like corporate office. And somewhere in there there's a wind tunnel. It's like this looks like some like off-site military base airplane hanger that they built this epic thing inside of. And there's nothing else in that structure.

It's crazy. It's crazy. They've kind of built like a room inside of a giant empty warehouse. And actually that building, it's specialized is where they make the purest bottles. And it's the wind tunnel. So it's like bottles and wind tunnel. And you walk into this huge warehouse field building with like super tall ceilings. And then you go out in another door to get into the wind tunnel area.

But the whole like wind getting sucked through, I think, the big warehouse field is essential to that operation. Yeah, the wind is actually circulating through the entire warehouse. Like the wind tunnel directs it. It's got these foils that make sure that the wind is going in a singular, like, continuous direction. But like when they turn on those fans, the whole building is essentially circulating. It's pretty wild. Eric, can you explain, I've just realized some people may not know what a wind tunnel, what the purpose of the wind tunnel is and why specialize built one? Yeah, so when you're doing bike things and for our purposes, how.

our position is going to be on the bike, how aerodynamic we are, you want to test and find out exactly how much drag that you have on your body, how much drag you have on your bike, on your wheels and all these things. And over the course of a two-hour, a 70.3 bike ride, especially if you're saving five watts or, you know, the coefficient of drag is the official number that they use, but we translate it into a number of watts. If you're going, you know, half a mile an hour faster are the same number of watts because you're more dynamic, that's race changing. So why wouldn't I just want to be low or smaller with the fastest helmet?

Yeah. So the other half of what we do at the wind tunnel is, and what we did entirely today, is we actually went in and we looked at our fits and we looked at some different arrangements of the front ends of our bars, so like how high our hands are, how higher elbows are and everything. And then we did some testing to find out if there were any penalties from going extremely low, metabolically speaking. So, okay, yes, you're incredibly bent over, but your heart is working way harder. Your whole system is working way harder. So that could potentially cancel out the aerodynamic benefits that you would see. So basically they take the metabolic data

from today, which we did with the VO2 mask, all of that, and then the arrow results from tomorrow and find the most optimal position, not just the most arrow position, like the position where your body is working the best, and it has the best, the lowest drag numbers. And then on top of that, are you going to do any, like, equipment testing or is it purely just position versus metabolic?

That's a great question, Nick. Yeah, we have different helmets to try tomorrow. We have, we're for sure wearing the Castelli suit, so we're not going to test different race suits, but that one is fast. We've tested it before. for test different bottle positions. And the biggest thing we're here for is to test different front ends because we actually do have a

couple different systems set up on the front of our bikes where we can try different heights, different widths, and then different bars altogether, which we've already kind of fit today so we can easily swap them on and off tomorrow while we're doing the testing. Something that I have found extremely interesting when I discovered this is that you would think, okay, at 40 kilometers an hour, there is a helmet that is the most aerodynamic. But the truth is actually much more complicated. It's that your whole body is like this one singular unit and the helmet is just part of that. So yes, it matters a lot.

But is that why you brought, you have a few different helmets because you don't actually know which one is going to be necessarily fastest in your position now? Yeah. Totally. Yeah, it kind of depends on how much you look around when you ride, how good you are at holding your head in a single position, the angle of your back, a whole bunch of different thing. So like the fastest helmet could, for me, could be the slowest helmet for you, Nick, based on the rest of your body. Yeah, yeah. So it's cool to do, yeah, be able to test that.

And do we want to talk about what they did today or do we want to wait until next week and go through everything that we kind of learned from it? I think next week we could do a little bit more of a dive into the results, but I just also want to say that I think that what I get excited about when I watch documentaries like Drive to Survive or anything is like the behind the scenes. and what it's like at places like this. And I get so excited when I walk into a place like Specialized. And they've got like the feed zone, the super amazing cafeteria with all this organic, amazing food.

And Flora Duffy's bike is in the middle of it. And then you go upstairs to the gym and there's woodways and all this beautiful top of the end gym equipment with a huge picture of Gwen Jorgensen on the wall. And like you're walking down the hallway and there's all these bikes, the actual bikes that like won the tour to France. And I think that the whole environment of Specialized is just incredible. incredibly inspiring. Even for me, I've been there like five times now. It's really, really cool. The wind tunnel has a special feel to it. And it's not just a wind tunnel where anyone can go. It's like a specialized specific place. And no other bike company has their own wind tunnel. So we're really, really grateful and lucky to be able to utilize this. And I think it's like a huge performance benefit. 100%. Yeah, I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow because tomorrow's like the big show. It's like the fans come on. The fans come on tomorrow. And we also want to give a huge shout out, even though he for sure doesn't listen to this podcast.

But Jason Williams, he's one of the best fitters with Specialized. He lives in Boulder. And we actually asked if he could come in specifically to help us with our fits because we've worked with him before and he's amazing. So he spent all day today there with us and he'll spend all day tomorrow. He's away from his family. And yeah, just super grateful for the people here that are making this happen. And then this is not even the only very exciting thing that's happened in the last week. No, it's not.

It's a crazy week. Yeah, it's a crazy week. So this week, you guys put something out that Eric has been talking to me about since I've known him, I feel like. Well, yeah, I mean, Paul and I have both talked about it. I just, I then talk to you about things or run things by you before I even tell Paul about them sometimes. but we announced a TTR development team. And what that boils down to essentially is we want to be able to support five, specifically five upcoming athletes who are trying to make it from being a top amateur

or just being in their first year pro and trying to make that jump over to be, you know, what we've talked about before on the podcast, like an actual true professional athlete making a living in the sport. And, you know, we've talked about how difficult that is. And we feel like now at the point, point that we've gotten TTL to that we can use this community and this platform that we've built to potentially help some people cross that gap successfully. Yeah.

And it doesn't happen in a year. Like I think that we're going to kind of like take this small group and nurture them. And the way that we're funding this project is through selling TTL tricits and cycling kits to TTL Nation, which is you guys. We've been asked so much over the years like, are you guys going to make a tri kit? Now's the time where we are. We're putting it out for pre-sale on Friday. And part of the thought behind that was that the development team will be funded by the profits from the sales.

So by buying a kit, you're also helping the development team. And yeah, it's just kind of a cool like paying it forward, giving it back to the community. And we were really excited about it. It's never been hard. The idea of making a TTR race kit and selling it, the barrier wasn't, the barrier wasn't, that it was going to be hard. It was that you guys wanted to make it something really cool. And Eric, I think, and both of you had this idea in the back of your heads that wouldn't it be cool if those sales somehow benefited the development team and some young athletes?

That's what makes it great. So if you're interested in the kit, know that this is the whole idea behind it. You're like helping fund and fuel these athletes. Yeah. Yeah. And we're also going to have cycling kits and like you can do a top and bottoms tri kit. And then we'll even have a tech tea that we do. And we just like, we really want.

want everybody who buys one to like when they see it and when they get it to just feel like they're part of something and like oh and when you see one of these athletes like I get their first pro podium or like qualify for the pro card you're like I was part of that yeah this is my team these are my people you feel very part of the whole I don't know and I just I just get so fired up just even thinking about it and talking about it I just think it's it's super cool so yeah if you want to be part of that if you want to race in a t t t t i'll try kit or or just a tech tea when you run we'd be super stoked. Yeah.

Just for timeline, we're going to put the pre-sale out tomorrow, if you're listening to this on Thursday. And we've already gotten over 200 applications for this from potential development team athletes. We got a lot to go through, but we're whittling it down already. And I think we're going to leave those open for like three or four more days. And then we'll start to like contact people next week who we're super interested in. There's been some really, really amazing people. And I just want to say that the response has been overwhelming to the point where I don't think I'm personally going to be able to go out and thank everyone for writing in and writing why they should be a part of it. But I truly appreciate all the effort that has gone into these applications.

Yeah. It's really, really touching and cool. And we really wish we could help everybody. But if we don't pick you, it's not because you weren't worthy. It's just like we can only pick five. Yeah. The reason that we decided to keep it to five is we really want to have like a true. impact on five people and be able to tell their story and like let them text us or whatever

you know like help them develop their personal brand and make it you know versus if we did 50 people we're not going to be able to like really give everybody the attention they deserve yeah it's not the kind of like sponsorship or help i mean we are going to support them financially but that's not where it ends i think that where we can really help people is where eric and i excel and in the not just social media but just like brand building and how to make yourself valuable

and then you can go forward and when you get race results get your own sponsors so we'll start with like giving gear and stuff from our sponsors but ultimately we want them to like go off in their own when they're grownups

yeah it's something just to like wrap it up something that back when I was this came up before but back when I was sponsored by Red Bull when I announced that all of a sudden I got a whole bunch of new inquiries from sponsors because it was just perceived as this thing that was, oh, this person just became valuable. And they're going to have a platform that's going to be amplified. And I hope that we can create that sort of an effect at some point. If you've come through our pipeline, that's like a little seal of a stamp of approval and you know that there's going to be an audience there and maybe other doors were open.

Yeah, cool. Speaking of supporting TTR and this whole thing, special shout out. thank you to people who are supporting the podcast. Very, very, very grateful for that. It's funny how we have like the YouTube, the gear, the podcast. And like each one of them we put our heart and soul into. And I feel like we're very lucky that the people that listen and follow along are such diehard, like rider dies. Sometimes I'm like, how is this all working? And then I said today, Nick, like, oh, it's because Eric literally works from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. every day. Like we're having dinner, he's working. We're on the treadmill, he's working.

I'm doing my bike fit, he's working. It's like, it literally never stops. So if people are watching from the outside and thinking like, How do they do it? That's how. It's just like literally grinding. So you can support the podcast yourself and submit questions for the podcast at that triathlon life.com slash podcast.

And our first one here is kind of just like a pallet cleanser. Would you rather finish first in one race of your choosing and never finish top five again or always finish second until you retire from Jason. Are we doing a whole round of would you rather? No, just one. It's a really interesting question. I think I would rather just win one race of my choosing and then never top five again. Like win the Olympics. And then that changes your life and then retire. I would take second for sure. I want to be like, if I'm still like 50 and 60 and like getting second and whatever some gravel race or some ultra, I would feel great about that. Yeah. I mean, the thing is you,

I guess it depends. You got to be trained to get those second places. You got to train until you're 60. Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah. I'd be tired. Here's the thing is I experienced firsthand. You guys might not even remember this. I was second at the world championships this year. If I was the world, really? If I was the world champion. What do you mean you guys? It would be like life-changing. Second place is like, okay, you don't even remember who is second. I remember who was second.

She said her right next to it. So I don't know. It's such a bittersweet place to finish. I don't remember who was first. I remember who was second. Yeah, exactly. I remember who was second, third, and fourth. Okay, okay.

But yeah, what would you pick her? And never another top five? Yeah. I think I'd just go with a whole bunch of seconds. You mediocres. Yeah, well take it. I would be happy. Well, I guess Nick and I are coming from the point of where it's like, yes, I've won races,

but I haven't been in the position of like you were in where you won five UTSs in a row. And it's like getting second at a bunch of big races would still be huge accomplishment. Yeah, you're right. To get second at world championships would be lifetime achievement. It might be a better sustainable plan for like making it and come in the sport because you just constantly stay relevant and you're constantly ranked high. Well, I think that's what's, you're. where you're coming from with it is you've already been constantly ranked high and constantly relevant.

And now you just want that Olympic. I want to win like a big race. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True. Cool. Okay.

Well, that was a nice little start. Next one here is, I was going to say it's from thanks, but that's just how it ends. Hey, I'll question. Question on post workout fueling. We got the giggles. Well, it is 930. On the dot. Okay.

So I do intermittent fasting and normally do my morning workouts 5 a.m. Fasted and then normally continue to fast until 11 o'clock. Oh my God. Oh, God. I get enough calories in during the day during my eating window, but I'm wondering if I'm missing out on some recovery by not fueling immediately after my workout. I know you guys aren't nutritionist, but any insight you would have is helpful. Thanks. Thanks, thanks.

I honestly don't know all the science between fasting, but I have not. heard anybody ever say anything but eat immediately after your workout. Yeah. And get that hit that recovery window. I'd say you're for sure compromising recovery and not, yeah, I couldn't do it. I mean, if you like really want to go back to fasting after that recovery shake or like whatever it is, I guess, but. Here's what I think about intermittent fasting. I think it's a good option for like your everyday healthy person. But like an athlete, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. I just listened to a whole two-hour podcast about this, and that was the consensus. It's like Huber, Huberman podcast.

You listen to that, and you're like, wow, this guy is so zen and perfect and, like, very good to his body. He's not trying to 20 hours a week? Yeah, I just don't think that a lot of the advice really transfers over to someone who's trying to, like, get the most other performance and fasting included. And I'll tell you this for sure. Your body, if you're doing two workouts a day, you need to replenish carbohydrates for that second workout. And your body is very primed to reabsorb those carbohydrates after that first workout. You're waiting that long after it is for sure. That's wild.

I think if you want to fast, you could do like your first workout fasted, you know? So like don't eat in the morning. Yeah. And then do a base ride or an easy run without food. Yeah, that's the thing too. It has to be low intensity or it's a huge toll on your body to do high intensity fasted. And then you eat after that. Yeah.

We experimented with this back with Paulo in like 2015. And even with like the low intensity first workout of the day, starting it pretty early, I still found it so, so challenging to have a decent second workout of day and forget a third workout. And so we kind of abandoned it because of that. It compounds too. Like the more days you do it, the more you're just digging this hole deeper. I would say though if you just pound some ketones after, you'd probably be fine. Every time I have ketones for breakfast,

I have to eat till dinner. A little sarcasm there. I don't know if you guys could sense it. Okay, well, there you go. Definitely, I mean, I guess if you're feeling good, that's fine, but you are probably leaving some performance on the table by doing this. Next question is from Derek. Enjoying the season prep videos and content you all are producing

and had a bike question for everyone but mostly Eric. I have an old bike Scatante XRL circa 2006 with Manuel Otegris. with Manuel Otegra Groupset that was a project bike I built in high school 15 years ago. It was my triathlon bike then, and now I'm getting back into the sports, and will be the bike I used this summer for some sprints, as I have no alternative. I think an upgrade is necessary as bike tech has increased so much, but I am having difficulty parting ways with this project bike and figuring out what to do with it. This seems especially relevant, but do you have emotional connections to certain bikes,

and if so, what do you do with them? and then also when should someone upgrade the bike they have with new gear versus just buy a new bike oh I see right exactly thanks David Derek Derek wow it's really weird sitting beside you as you're reading the questions because I'm just like I can just jump in you want to do the next one no no no that would feel wrong um I kind of like this question in terms of like when would you take an old bike and use the frame and just upgrade the components versus just buying a new bike all together together. Like if it's a carbon frame, like, has the geometry changed that much? Have aerodynamics even changed that much? If you're putting on, like,

sham etap instead of whatever old Altagra manual shifting you had. Yeah, I mean, if you're going for ultimate budget conscious decision, you can upgrade the parts, but you are always going to get a significantly better deal on new parts if you buy it. The whole bike is a package. That's true. Like, just the thing, the one that I can remember is like a Cervello P2 from back in the day when I was working in the day. when I was working in the bike shop, like a full Altegra group set would cost you like $3,000.

And they were offering the Cervillo P2 with like mostly Altegra groups set for like $2,800. Yeah, so it's always cheaper. The frame was like free or the group set was free, like however you want to look at it. So if you're like really, really trying to scrape by and pinching pennies, then yes, you can upgrade just the components and it's fine. I'm also thinking about what about like spacing that changes,

like dub spacing or, like 11 speed versus 10 speed over versus 12 speed. Yeah, that stuff changes, yeah. It does. Yeah, it does change. But I think there's still probably a healthy amount of adapters and type stuff out there that you can, depending on the bike. To answer the first question, I think that it's kind of cool when people take an older frame that they're attached to and turn it into a single speed commuter or something like that. Because you might not get much for it if you're taking it to like consignment or resell it.

But if it has sentimental value and it's a cool bike, I think there's still. life in it for being kind of a beater bike commute around whatever you know yeah yeah uh i i have not been in the position up until recently to like necessarily just hang on to sentimental bikes so i've i've sold bikes that i've won big races on and stuff but um i also haven't ever had a custom painted bike that was like so unique yeah paula that's what i was i was thinking yeah like i'll never get rid of that shiv tri bike that they painted me ever Right. Like I'll hang on to that, hanging on the wall, whatever.

I still have the bike that I won Daytona on. That was a custom-painted bike. I think you still have your Olympic bike? I still have my Olympic bike from Specialize, like the neon orange. It's in my parents' basement. I wouldn't get rid of those for no reason. So I totally get the sentimental bike thing. And I personally get sentimentally attached to all of my bikes.

But it's not really feasible to never get rid of them. But whenever I sell a bike, it's always like through word of mouth to a friend of a friend or a friend. and I know it's going to a good home and they're going to use it and they're going to send me pictures of it being used and I feel good about that. Yeah, totally. Next question here is from Andy. Morning all, firstly, thank you for making such a positive impact on the triathlon community.

This is Andy, Andy, Andy. Really? Yep. Wow. I have two questions which tie... No, not that Andy, but Andy McKinley. Oh. Andy, Andy, the swimmer.

Andy? Yeah. Got it. I have two questions which tie in nicely with the recent launch of your TTL development team. If you could go back in time, what advice would you give yourself during your first year as a pro? Second question, with the cost of equipment, travel and racing, etc., being so high, is it advisable to set up an LLC to offset some of the cost? Keep doing what you're doing, Andy.

It's interesting. That second question, I feel like... I don't know. It stresses me out. Well, it's like offset the cost. I don't think that's the point necessarily. But anyway, go ahead. I think what you're thinking about is about setting up an LLC to offset the cost is I think you're thinking of an S corporation flow-through entity where rather than taking 100% 1099 contractor pay, the contractor pay goes to the business and then the business pays you a paycheck and then you avoid a small percentage of self-employment tax on those, like outrageously high taxes on contractor pay.

Right. It's not necessarily about... Is this dressing me out, you guys. It's too late for this. It's not necessarily about the LLC versus the flow-through style. of an S corporation. Which is what we do. So yeah, I guess it's better.

Yeah, but we also just set this up last year. So it took us quite a while to get the point. And there is like kind of a break-even point. I think it's around, it's somewhere between $60,000, it's around $60,000 where it becomes worth the additional tax, like how much money it costs to set up that S-corporation and pay an accountant and all that stuff. So it's not like, oh, I'm making $10,000, I need to set up an S corporation to get all fancy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then the first one, what advice would you give yourself as a first year pro? I don't even remember. Well, I think maybe let's contextualize it. As if you were a first year pro in 2023. I mean, like, when people ask me, like, hey, what should I tell my kid who wants to be a pro or whatever, usually what I tell them is like, do you want to be a professional triathlete so badly that you're willing to, like, go down this pathway of potentially never making money? you at least have several years of making very little to negative money and having nobody care at all

before you maybe break through and have like a race that people care about. And if you just, you love the lifestyle and you love the idea of training and make yourself better and the whole thing that much, then go for it. But do not get into it thinking it's like going to be this glamorous thing because that is an if and it's typically a long timeline. I feel like there are so few people that are fully surviving comfortably off of being a pro triathlet.

Yeah, it's really tough. And then on like, just like the way that the current landscape is with social media and branding and all that stuff, I would just say, like, really kind of sit down and think about what makes you unique and what you can bring to the sport, what you can bring to any potential sponsors in terms of adding value to them. So like, don't go to a sponsor and be like, what can I get from them rather than what can I bring to the table for them? And why would that make them think that this is a good investment?

and kind of lean into those things. Like if you're really funny, make that part of your core thing, lean into that a little bit and be forward with that. Yeah, I would say a lot of this is like money, sponsor, focus. But in terms of just being an athlete, I think you're never going to break through unless you have good race results. And to do that, you have to train smart. You have to have a good coach that you trust.

You have to have transparency. You have to listen to your body. Like these are all things that I kind of had a backwards trajectory where I started really good, then had a tough time, then came back up. But during the tough times, that's when I really learned a lot of lessons about really managing my body, listening to myself when I know I should take time off, or if I'm injured, or if I'm not getting my period, all these different things that you just, like, have to manage if you want to be an athlete for a long time. And when you're doing well and you're

winning races, it's easy to kind of let that stuff slide. So I'd say it's stay on top of that. Yeah, great. Next question. I team love the podcast, just started wearing On running shoes after having been a long time Nike Pegasus wear. And notice that, much like Paula, my ankle and feet pain have disappeared. Crazy. Amazing. Love that. Love both the Cloud Stratus and Cloud Monster. Paula, what are the On shoes that you wear regularly? In addition, now that you have the On sponsorship, how about some T.T.L. Branded On Gear. Have a great day. Yeah, On doesn't do, you can't brand On Gear. It's just like one of the, million things that makes on cool.

It's like their branding is pretty subtle most of the time. Their stuff is beautiful. They're not going for like make the logo as big as possible, you know, like some people are. I use the cloud stratus almost exclusively. I love that shoe. I started with the cloud monster and I still wear it sometimes. But I find the cloud stratus just like fits my foot a little bit better. It's less soft and cushiony so I can kind of like, I wear.

the cloud stratus for some tempo runs even, even though it's like far from a tempo shoe, quote unquote. But I got a pair for Eric and he prefers the cloud monster. So I think both are very similar in a lot of ways, but for my feet, the cloud stratus works. And I only included this question because I literally get five or ten people a week asking what shoes I wear. And when you see a picture on Instagram, it's not always obvious which one it is, but it's the stratus. Yeah. And Eric, you've been wearing the monster every now and then? He only wears on now. I pretty much only wear the monsters now. I do.

I have some cloud stratus and I like the cloud stratus. I'll usually wear those when I run on the treadmill or when I do a little bit faster workout. Yeah. Just because like the treadmill seems so kind of like squishy as it is. I don't think I need the extra squish of the monster. But like I can run on the cloud monster on pavement, which we've been having to do a fair bit of lately because the trails have been icy or squishy and feel pretty,

pretty okay. Yeah, I would say that. If someone is like running exclusively on pavement, Like Nick, you kind of do most pavement. The monster's a really good shoe. And I can run on that and feel almost like artificially I'm on a soft trail. Right, right, right. Just because of the shoe. Yeah.

Which is cool. I've never had a shoe like that. Like with Nike, the Pegasus, the React, all those never felt like this. Well, let me ask you guys, when you first were running, how were shoes different? In what ways were they different? How different was it cushioning? Less cushioning. Like, oh my gosh, I saw a picture of me winning a race.

Like the PTO has been. doing these like bringing back to life. Yeah. And the shoes that I'm wearing, it looks like someone photoshop the picture and cut off the soul of my shoe because it's like a sock, you know? It's like.

A race shoes back in the day. Yeah. It's just as light as possible. That was the mindset. Yeah. Just not even, yeah. Just a top. Just like the rubber.

It was just like the rubber that touches the road. It was also touching your fabric. No mid-soul. You wonder I got stress fractures every other week. Yeah. Great. Well, there you guys.

go. That answers that question. I guess what's in for all. Next question's from Olivia. Hey, T-T-L, this question is about hashtag snacks, spelled SNAX, which we appreciate. So it's important. I'm wondering what each of your favorite go-to-snacks are. I train two to three times a day with a full-time job, so I often leave the house at 6 a.m. for the pool, and don't get back until 7 or 8 p.m. after the evening workout. I can never manage to pack enough food, and I always end up catching up with three bowls of cereal late at night. Sounds like you, Eric. I also get bored of the same snacks all the I eat rice cakes and peanut butter. So I'd love to hear what you guys eat for some inspo.

While I'm at it, what's y'all's favorite cereal, Olivia. Such a good question. First of all, let's do cereal. Mine is honey, bunches of oats. Eric has a cocktail. Yeah, Eric likes to mix. Yeah, I like Quaker Oatmeal Squares for the most part. I think my favorite is the brown sugar kind.

I like to typically do Quaker O'Mail squares and then sometimes I'll do like a little bit of life or something and then like top with some granola for some crunch. And raisins. And I buy Eric whatever's on sale, so that's what he eats. Yeah. I like a lot of different mouth feels. Yeah.

He loves a good mouthfeel. I try to go for like the lowest sugar content cereal possible. And then top it with a lot of granola. No. Just kidding. I honestly do not. I top it with very little granola because I know Paula is like massively stingy with the granola and hates that I eat it on my cereal.

God forbid. Meanwhile, scooping three p. but three spoonfuls of peanut butter into her oatmeal. So that's what I was hoping you guys talk about, is the peanut butter consumption in your household. Yeah. How long does it take to go through a standard-sized jar of peanut butter in your house? Oh, my gosh.

I have such a fun segment for this. It's not a segment. Florida Duffy. Her husband, Dan, has a nut butter company. Her and her husband in South Africa, and they sell it in the U.S. now. It's called butta nut. And she sent us like 12 jars of this stuff.

It's so good. And one giant huge jar of like regular peanut butter. And then the little jars are like macadamia hazelnut and chocolate hazelnut and like all these amazing combos. So huge thank you to Flora for sending us that. But we went through the big peanut butter jar and like a week and a half. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Like way too short of a time.

How big is it? It's like it's like big. Would you say it's like two regular peanut butter? Maybe three. Yeah, maybe three. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's impressive. Yeah, because Eric has a peanut butter sandwich. I eat it by the spoonful.

But that would probably be our like... That's your go-to snack. It's a high-cal-a-law. You guys love, love, love peanut butter compared to most of it. I wouldn't say it's my go-to snack, though. No? No, I have it in a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Like, I'll go through phases where I'll have it on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich every other day for like a month.

And I won't do it at all for a month. Like my go-to snack is is crackers and hummus. Like I just, I don't know, it's like the saltiness of it. Like almost every time of the day I can super get down on that. What I'm thinking about when I hear this question is like flashbacks to university when I would also leave the house at 5 a.m. Swim, go to school all day, go to track, get home at 8, and pack food for that entire day. And I think the key to that was calorie dense thing. So I would often take like, it was like trail mix.

It was like this end. stuff that was like high calorie for people that were like in the hospital basically. And I'd drink that after swimming just because I had so many calories. And peanut butter sandwiches like bread and I would say replacing rice cakes with bread might be a good option just to get more calories. Because if you're coming home hungry, it just means that you haven't like balanced the calories throughout the day and making it all up before bed might compromise your sleep or something. It's not the way to go.

It's not as healthy of a way to do it. But I do understand the challenge here because it is hard to. to pack enough things. So I would say like a bag of mixed nuts that are salted is a good thing to snack on throughout the day. Like we've already talked about peanut butter, hummus and crackers are really portable. You can just like put hummus in a little Tupperware and take a giant bag of crackers. And you can also take a bag of carrots and a bag of snap peas and like eat the hummus with that. We really like picky bars in terms of like a natural feeling bar because a lot of bars have a lot of crap in them. And I think picky bars are actually like really good

ingredients and easy to take with you. That really checks the cookie box for me too. Oh, really? It feels like a... They're a little sweet. The mouth feel is similar. Yeah. I would also take like dark chocolate, like pieces of dark chocolate with me. But we, I was exercising a lot. So I think that I like needed

this, but sounds like this person is too, right? Well, I mean, just to give a little context here, on the bed that we're on, right before we started recording, there was a chocolate bar and peanut butter that were being used in tandem as a cocktail as well. Well, I mean... So there's

time for everything. Somebody was thinking about it. I'm not sure it actually happened. But Nick, do you have any favorite snacks? I, my problem is if I have anything sweet in my house, it's the first thing I eat. It doesn't matter what time of the day is. So I try not to have that kind of snack around. When I'm hungry in the middle of the day, my go-to is Greek yogurt with granola. Oh, I love Greek yogurt. That's kind of my go-to snack. And you can take that on the go as well, because Greek yogurt, if you put it in like a little lunch bag or have like a little frozen pack thing, that can stay cold and then just put granola in with it.

Yeah, they'll keep it separate until you actually use it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that. That's a really good idea. Yeah, cool. I could talk about this question more. We're very passionate about, should we go get Fro Yale or what?

Yeah. Guys, our hearts were broken. As we were pulling in, we saw this place called Yes, yogurt or something, and we were so ready for it. Turns out it's no yogurt on like whatever day of the week it is right now. It was so close. Yeah. Well, I'm glad.

Somehow this podcast stopped us from venturing out and getting yogurt somewhere else. Maybe tomorrow we'll reward ourselves with some. For sure we will. Maybe. Yeah. Great. Okay, next question is from Reed. Sub-TTL crew, getting excited for race season. I have no doubt you will be out there crushing it. I hope to get a chance to say hello at PTO US Open in August.

I love the pod, the tube, the gear, and the lifestyle. Triathlon has been a saving grace for me personally and gives me a whole new challenge. Anyways, my question was about Strava Monthly Fitness number. Do you have any sense of how accurate that number might be compared to the overall tracking you might be doing? I notice on big efforts, it will jump up a lot. And then if I'm in a recovery time, it drops. Even though it says fitness and recovery added up over time. So while we have so much data from Apple, Garmin, Wahoo, et cetera, wondering if this data is helpful for managing fitness load.

If you have any thoughts on this, I would love to know, stay safe and rad, and hopefully warmer soon. It's a fellow Oregonian. I'm ready for winter to be over from Reed. Cool. Thanks, Reid. That's a good question. They're just like rolling his eyes over there. No, the month list. I just don't know. I like, I actually did click on this monthly fitness thing on accident the other day. I was trying to figure out what it was. It's very stressful. But like, yeah, anyway, I don't know. I really don't know.

I looked it up and it track. If you have a power meter and you have heart rate data, it uses those and it uses their little algorithm to track a fitness score. Assume it's like an acute like fatigue and like workload over time. So they have, if you look into their like fitness and freshness page, they have like fatigue form and fitness. On Strava. On Strava. Not even Training Peaks has the same thing in their own language. But it's supposed to, I think it's a very rough way to try to account for your overall training load. Yeah.

I think my sense is you should very much be informed by how you're feeling first. Yeah. And use this as kind of a very broad stroke stroke. tool. I can say that personally when I compare what it thinks my fitness is compared to how I've actually raced, it has been, it has deviated from that quite a bit. Yeah, I agree. Quite a few times. So it's definitely not the last word on it. And also, I think it can be a little bit of a dangerous tool. If you get negatively affected by saying you're decreasing your fitness in a recovery week, that's not cool because you're supposed to take your recovery weeks

easy. And then if you're seeing like a negative two, negative one on your overall trend, it's just that can get to your head, you know? Yeah. And since it's not a really hyper-accurate tool to begin with, the fact that it can potentially do damage just seems like... Yeah. Like long story short, I don't pay any attention to it. But every now and then, like Eric said, when he goes and clicks on it or I go click on it,

I'm like, oh, boy. Yeah. I think it can be used as a rough tool. And that's it. And I think you're right, Nick, about having to do heart rate with it. Because I don't upload my heart rate on Strava, So I think that might cause it to not be correct either. If you don't have heart rate, then it apparently will go off of perceived exertion,

but then you also have to put that in. Which I don't. Like it's just, I remember before I had a power meter, it would give me estimated power for Strava segments. Yeah. It's like, okay, what if it's windy? What if I'm in a pack? Yeah. It's like a million things that can be a little bit off.

So it has the best intentions, but I feel like it's just, the body's too complicated. to break it down at such a simple metric and go off of it. Yeah, yeah, totally. Next question is from Susan. Hi, all, your podcast always makes me smile. The love and respect between the three of you is so evident and you're all funny. We are pretty funny. I know, at least we think we're funny.

Love, respect, and funniness. That's core values. Great, you're hired. That's great. Questions. One, Paula, can you share with us how you use the lever to recover from the foot injury, please? For example, did you gradually start running outside or increase the weight on the lever or both? Just got one. Love it and recovering from Achilles' injury. Yeah, I put this in there not necessarily to reference my ankle injury that never ends,

but I actually had a little injury scared two weeks ago with my shin. I had a shin splint feeling on my right shin. And I had shin splints back in the day, like when I was a swimmer, and I just started running, and I know distinctly what they feel like. It's like a pain on the inside of the bone almost. And all the Googling and stuff I did about it, it's very hard to distinguish a shin stress fracture from a shin splint. So I started panicking and assuming the worst.

I have a stress fracture in my shin. This is terrible. It was a real fun week. So that week, after getting a massage, getting a lot of work on it, getting my physio to work on it, and taking two days off running completely, I ran exclusively on the lever for a week. And then a week later ran on the ground,

and it was gone. It was like all better. So to me, the lever is just like such an invaluable tool to have for a relatively low price point compared to something like an ultra-G to use for reasons like this. If you have a scare, you have an injury thing coming on. It just gives you that peace of mind to know that the load is off. I can stop any time I want.

I can ease back into things after running. So not a good thing necessarily to use every single day when you're not injured, but for injury stuff or just like decreasing load when you're fatigued, it's an amazing tool. And just for people who may not know what the lever is, it's a tool that mounts on top of your treadmill. and through a series of elastic bands will lighten the load on your feet when you're running. So it allows you to still run at certain speeds and have leg turnover without having to incur the pounding that your body weight puts on you. It's like a really strong bungee system that holds you up with the special shorts. And the tighter you may get the more holds you up.

So you're kind of suspended. And Eric, you've used it too, right? A little bit. I mean, just to see what it was like, basically. Yeah. I can see using it for some specific overspeed workouts. if I just really want to get the leg turnover, like you said. But I think it's important to note that Paula started using this

when her shin started to feel a little off. It wasn't like, I can't walk. Yeah, right. Let me pull this thing out. So I think that's like the total value of it. And if I had something that was like that, it was like, I felt this before and I'm like four days out from this becoming a real thing. Yeah.

Integrate the lever, but also integrate rest. This is just a good lesson in general. Outside of the lever, don't wait until it gets really bad. I'm so proud of myself for not waiting until it got really bad. Me too. And look. And look. And I'm fine.

It worked. Amazing. I had those nights. So I was just up thinking like, oh my God, I have a stress fracture. Oh my God. But I didn't. Yeah. That's the worst.

Thank God. I don't think I could have emotionally handled it. I was pretty psyched actually because I was running on the treadmill. And I was thinking, as soon as I get off this treadmill, I'm putting the lever on this treadmill so that it's here. so she can use it. And you walked in within like three minutes of me finishing my run and we're like, can you put the lever on the treadmill? It's like amazing.

Amazing. That is amazing. Yes. Amazing. Yeah, for a while we just had it off because I was, I hate the treadmill. I don't want to run on the treadmill. So if I'm not injured, I don't want to use it. But I knew I needed to use it.

So Eric set it up and now it just kind of lives on there. Amazing. Just in case. The barrier to using it is zero. Yeah. So often that's the case, right? Yeah. Just setting it up.

It doesn't even take long to set up. but. Great. Well, last question here. We are really, we're sticking to our guns here. Did Susan have one more question? It's a really good one. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Yeah, sorry. And it's a quick answer too. Eric, for older age group, 50 to 60 women, but accomplished triathletes, would you recommend a try or road bike for Alcatraz? Good question. I'll also add on why. I was really trying to figure out how this was a good question for me. Well, yeah.

Start up for 60. 50, 60 women. It's like, I don't, okay. I think I would go with a road bike for sure. So would I? Yeah, it's just... It's like one of the very, very, very few triathlons that a road bike is the better option, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you come out of transition and you've got like maybe a mile and a half before you start climbing, very steep, and then you go very steep down, and then very steep up, and then very steep down. With a lot of technical turns. A lot of technical turns.

There's like legitimate spots where you could rock it off a cliff if you lost control. And then you have a little section in the Golden Gate Park, which I think is like, 10K maybe 8K where you can ride Aero and that's why I ride the TT bike and but the rest of it You're sitting out like you'll be so much more comfortable and so much more confident on a road bike and I would go with like 30 C tires if you can and just would you put clip on bars on I mean you can just for the golden gate thing yeah put them on for the golden gate thing but if you don't have them I wouldn't stress about it like that race is so fun and cool and your experience is only going to be negatively impacted by being on a bike

that you don't feel totally confident on. By the way, just for context, Eric won this race last year and it won in 2018? 15. 15, yeah. I think that pro women have won the race on a road bike before. So it is like possible to have a really good time there. I'm confident a pro man has it as well

at some point in time. Yeah. I'm just thinking I can like distinctly remember who. Definitely women. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. I think did Heather or Sarah True? I think maybe like Lindsay Djardonic. I don't remember.

It's like totally 50-50. Last year it ranged too. So even better day to have a road bike that you feel comfortable on. Totally. Yeah. We were so cold watching you. So cold. Okay, last question here.

It's also a good course for disc brakes. Yes, definitely. High all big fans since the first episode recently bought a specialized Diverge from watching the vlog and a new pair of on running shoes are on their way as I type this. Question is this. You're our favorite. Yeah, thank you. My question is this.

I grew up doing track cycling in high school where it was ingrained in me to always put power on the pedals with both legs pushing down or pulling up simultaneously on the pedals, which works great on fixed gear bikes. But I'm wondering if this is counterproductive in triathlon, where I imagine you want to use one set of muscle group to pedal on the downstall. stroke only for instance and save another set of muscle groups for the run. Am I making this up? Take care on keep up the good work.

Philippe from Laurel. This is definitely, I feel like this is kind of an old school train of thought. And more of what I've heard lately is that it doesn't necessarily work that way with your legs. You kind of need a lot of the same muscles to run that you need to bike with and just thinking like, oh, I'm going to do such a thing that makes it so that I only use my hamstring. and I only use my quads here rather than just total body fatigue. You're better off to be in a good position to be cycling effectively,

probably not thinking about it too much, and then just be fit enough to run well off of that. Something else I remember hearing that then I think was disproved was this idea that you should be applying equal amount of power at any point in the pedal stroke. Of course you're going to be putting more power down in the power stroke of your pedal stroke. I think there was this idea once like, no, you need to be circular peddling,

like really pulling up a lot. Yeah, that was also like early 2000s type of thinking. And it makes sense. If you could just like perfectly distribute the workload across all of your muscles beautifully and like nothing in particular would get tired any faster than anything else, that'd be great, but we're not robots.

And they're just like the last I checked, the fastest time trial cyclist out there have incredibly powerful downstrokes. It's not this beautiful, perfect thing like you would, like some people would have once thought. How often do you guys think about pulling up on the back? I don't think about it ever. No, the only time I ever think about pulling up maybe is like, well, I'm sprinting as hard as I can. Yeah, same.

It's just the sprint. And then a lot of that is like ankle flexion coming up. Yeah. It's not even just like your hip flexors pulling up. It's your feet doing it. Yeah. And that's more of just a necessity to get your feet. your foot back around the pedal stroke.

Yeah, exactly. It's kind of a satisfying feeling to like whip your ankle up and have a back in the position to like smash down. Yeah. But it's certainly like, I wouldn't see that. It's like metabolically the most efficient. Yeah. It's like if you're trying to go as hard as you possibly can,

everything's getting turned on. This makes me think of, I've been thinking about this concept a lot because my friend, I'm friends with this marathoner, David, and he's a fast marathoner, sub-230 marathon, and we're going to do a Zwift ramp test with him and me and a couple other friends. Yeah, right.

So, and I'm really curious to see him who has, he is, I'm sorry, David, absolutely atrocious on a bicycle. We went on a bike ride once. He could not go like seven or eight miles an hour without feeling like it was like overwhelming or something. So we're going to get him off the road. Thank God. Yeah.

And on a Wahu kicker trainer and do a ramp test and see what this is. FDP comes out to you because he's really, really strong. He has multiple 100 mile weeks in a row. He's fit. He's very fit. But this concept of, I mean, I've experienced this in races too, where I'm biking faster than someone that looks like similar body composition to me. And then we get off the bike and they are running a thousand times faster than I am.

It's like these movements seem so similar. You know, like he's saying, the movements feel like, okay, you could save some muscles for this other thing. But I think in the end, they aren't. quite different and people can be so much better at one or the other even though it's technique it's so many things so many things yeah it's what you've done more obviously david's done a lot more running i wonder and you've talked about this before both of you talked about this before i wonder if it's also like how much suffering you're willing to endure per sport that's what i think about him on the bike is like i think you'll have a hard time getting on the bike for a ramp test and going to the zone of

pain on the bike that's required it's different it's different different than running and my friend kathleen who's now, she was a marathoner and she's getting into triathlon now, she can't figure out a way to push as hard on the bike as she does in the run because I think it's such an aerobic effort on the run and on the bike. It's much more, it's more localized. It kind of burns. Yeah, it burns. I would say it sucks way more to go hard on the bike.

It's more like doing a bunch of squats than it is like jumping jacks. Yeah. Oh my God, going hard on the bike is the hardest thing on earth. Especially when you're down in TT, I think. You just feel harder than the swim? Yeah. I think so. This is the swim for me.

I was like, oh, I'm simultaneously drowning, suffocating to death. No, but at a certain point, you just can't go harder. On the bike, I was feeling I can go harder. That was true. You just, like, hit ultimate failure on the swimming a little bit quicker. Well, I feel like on the swim, like, you can just feel like your arm just don't, like, they're just dead at a certain point. Your legs get pumped out. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. It feels good. Last Friday, we did 2100s hard. on 130. And then later in the day, we add four by eight minutes hard on the bike. And it's the first time I've ever said to Eric, like, I think I'd rather do the 2100s again

than do this bike ride. Just because I think the bike hurts so much. Oh, my gosh. What would you rather do? 4 by 8, for sure, on the bike. Yeah. I've done 2,100 before. 4 by 8 on the bike on the trainer.

Yeah. No, no, no. I'd rather do the swimming. Transport yourself to make. to Oregon. No, that's terrible. The ground is a hockey rink. Although I am excited to do the Zwift ramp test on the trainer.

Yeah. With friends there. Because it's over in like 30 seconds. You've made it into a thing. Yeah. It's now a thing. Yeah, it's a thing. That's a thing.

I want to try to get a few other friends over and just like people that represent different athletes or from different sports and just see how it translates to, you know, whatever the FTP number that Zwits out. Are you going to let David stand up? No, no standing. That'd be a game changer. You have to remain sitting. Yeah.

You have to remain sitting. That's the name of the game. Sweet. Yeah, it'll be fun. Can't wait to hear the conclusions. Yeah, yeah. It'll be fun. I'll share.

I'll definitely share. Well, that's it. That's all the questions we had. You can write in your questions. Wait, wait, wait. That's not all the questions we had, Nick, but that is all we have time for. Oh, yeah, sorry. It's all the questions I chose for our shortened episode.

There were a couple really good ones that you didn't ask us. So maybe we'll save it for next week. Okay, great. Okay. Sounds good. But it has ticked past 10 p.m. and we want to wake up to swim tomorrow. So thank you so much for listening.

A quick reminder to go apply for the development team if you haven't yet. And that pre-orders open tomorrow for our TTL try kits, which we're so excited about. The design is amazing. If you haven't seen them, head to our Instagram page, and there's some pictures on there. They're also going to be up on the website. Our web development guy, Danny, is working on them as we speak.

Our web development guy slash dog sitter. Yeah, exactly. Danny is the king of slash. That guy is amazing. He can learn anything and we would not have a website without him. We're like, hey, Danny, can you watch our donkey for us? Oh, and also just on our website. Here's a drawing that I did on a Chipotle napkin.

That's what I would like to look like. He also, isn't he a pretty good biker too? Like a downhill biker and a great swimmer. Yeah, he's a good swimmer at sprinting. That's it. Okay, okay. He can do a hot, hot 20 yards. Got it, got it.

He also doesn't listen to this podcast because he doesn't do travel. Right. Okay. Okay. Thanks for listening, guys. And thank you to Nick for bringing all this podcast equipment to this shitty hotel. It's fine. There's cookies in the corner.

The entire podcast setup is sitting on your lap. It's not that hard. Ridiculous. Okay. Thanks, everyone. Later. Bye.