That Triathlon Life Podcast - Ultra runner Elise Lagerstrom talks about ultra running and finishing the Western States 100 mile race

Episode Date: July 6, 2023

This week we have a special guest on the podcast! Eric's sister Elise is a former professional triathlete turned ultra runner who has completed multiple 100 mile races including recently finishing the Western States 100. We talk about her race and then get to your questions about ultra running. Blisters, joint pain, nutrition, mental toughness, the joy of racing, and more! To submit your own questions for a future episode and become a podcast supporter, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Lockerstrom. I'm Nick Goldston. And I'm Elise Loggerstrom. Wait, what? Who is this? Yeah, instead of Paula here to join Nick and I, this week we have my sister, Elise Loggerstrom, fresh off of completing the Western States Endurance Run. Oh, M.G. So normally what happens, like Paula and I are both professional triathletes,

is a professional musician, our great friend, and amateur triathlet, and we talk about triathlon and take questions. But since my sister just finished the most epic 100-mile running race on earth, we figured that we would have her on the podcast. And we put out a call on Instagram for, does anybody have any questions about ultra things? And we got 170 questions about it. So it's obviously, it's the hot thing right now. that is unbelievable so eric i'm curious do you have any idea like how many feet of climbing it is for her to do this race it's somewhere between like a thousand and a million i think you're right i think that's accurate it is somewhere in there at least can you tell us yeah it is um it's actually

a big question mark i think it's something that i i blocked out and i don't even know the answer to um but every map seems to call it differently but it seems like it's round 15,000 to 20,000 feet of elevation gain over the 100 miles. What did your watch say? So that's also a very good question. So my watch died at mile 75. Of course it did. Because it wouldn't be a real ultra without adversity at every corner.

Don't listen to your heart. Uh-uh. Yeah, I have no idea. I think it was like at 12,000 when it died at mile 75. So I don't know. So more than that. Watch was like, this is stupid. I'm out.

Yeah, I was. And this isn't even your first 100-mile or because I remember when Eric past you partially through the previous one, which was also, was that your first one? Yes, it was. That was, yeah, that was my first one. Yeah. That was the,

yeah, that was the Oregon High Cascades 100, right? I'm saying that right. Oregon Cascades 100. And you actually got third there in your first 100 and made prize money, which is kind of unusual for ultra running, right? We've talked about this before, like what is a professional ultra runner

and how does it work? You know, yeah, I want. more prize money than they had at Western States. What? Yeah. I mean, there's more prize money at the Oregon Cascades 100 than Western States. That's crazy. So I guess we can say that that ultra is definitely more like prestige bragging rights based than prize money based.

Right. It definitely is. We like that. That's cool. Yeah. So for like if you don't quite understand or you don't know, you haven't heard about what Western States endurance run is, it's basically you can kind of think of it like the, the Kona of Ultra running. It's got this long history. It's way, way harder to get into than

Kona is. Are we going to get into that later or do I need to break that down just a little bit? No, we're going to get into that, but I would love to hear your take on it right now. I'm curious. My take on it, I'm going to try to summarize this as quickly as possible, is if you finish a 100-mile race, you get like one entry into the raffle to do it. And if your next year, you finish 100-mile race Again, you get like three, and then you get the next year, you get like nine. And what at least, what you told me, I still remember is like after 10 years of completing a 100-mile qualifier every year, at that point, you have like a 50% chance of getting into the raffle. Right? I think it's slightly better than that after 10 years.

I think you're guaranteed after 10 years. Okay. But you have to finish 100-mile race every year. You have to do 100k, but it's a specific list of 100Ks that are deemed worthy. Just think about this. I remember when I found out that there was the, like, I forget what they're called, like the legacy qualifiers for Kona. Like if you do 10 years or maybe it was 12 years of Kona, 12 years of Iron Man's, then you could get a legacy spot. I remember thinking like, who in their right mind would ever put themselves through that?

Forget about that. Now imagine 100Ks 10 years in a row. Like, who is doing this to themselves? So many people. You got a lot of it. Poor souls. Okay. I guess like, that's crazy.

Last thing I would say before we get into whatever Nick has prepared is a little, I don't know how unknown or little known this is, but you actually qualified for your professional triathlon license prior to COVID hitting and raised what? Did you race two pro triathlon races? Yeah. 270.3s, you actually raced against Paula and Indian Wells in, I guess, was that 2019? You beat her, of course. It was. Well, actually, you know, I did not beat her at any point in the race, but I did hang on her feet for, like, 90% of the swim.

And that got me, I think, in, like, a magazine. Wow. That's good. Sweet. That's good. Yes. I know. See, I'm like, I know I can swim on Paula's ankles.

Right. Right. That's it. I mean, I'm a little bummed. You didn't, like, see that all the way through, but that is, like, a super benefit of helping from a swim background as, like, a starting professional triathlet. You at least are in the race for some percentage of time versus if you swam 10 minutes behind. You just never see anybody. So. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely had the advantage with the swim. And, yeah, I mean, triathlon was fun for a while. It was. And then COVID hit, you know? I think it kind of bode everyone out. That made it really challenging. That was part of the reason that we moved away. So Alis and Paul and I all used to live together.

And part of the reason that Paul and I started spending more time and bend and moved away was because the 50 meter pool, a mile from our house, was closed for what? Like two years straight? It puts a little damper on the trathon training. Okay. I think that's all the backstory I have got. Got it. Well, by the way, people did know that she was a pro triathlete because a few people put that in their questions.

Yeah. And I don't think I used any of those, but some people ask, like, what made you want to, what made you leave triathlon for ultra running? But I have a much more important question. Eric's kind of like sick and twisted and he likes oatmeal raisin cookies. How do you feel about oatmeal raisin cookies versus chocolate chip? Oh, okay. So versus chocolate chip? I mean.

Like oatmeal chocolate chip? Eric, I didn't ask you. I'm asking your sister. I'm just, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, versus pure chocolate chip, definitely. pure chocolate chip, but versus oatmeal chocolate chip, like, no, it's oatmeal raisin. Oh, yeah. Oh, you know what? You know what? I kind of like that. When I think of oatmeal,

I forget that there's oatmeal chocolate chip, too. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy people. Yeah, that's for crazy people. Okay, so. That's great. We're never run out of raisins. There's never a rush on raisins. Okay, so we're going to do a little new segment here. We haven't introduced a new segment in a long time, but this one's going to be called Get a Reasons. It's a to know our guest. Get to know our guest. You know what popped into my mind is Be Our Guest from Beauty and the Beast.

I was just singing that last night. Is that what's happening? No, it wasn't that. It wasn't that it was, Tale is old as time. Very close. By the way, if anyone wants, listen to the Peebo-Bryson version of that song.

It is incredible. Okay, so get to know our guest. Eric, I also, I'm going to immediately change the format of this segment, even though this is the first time we're introducing it. And I think if you want to answer some of these questions too, I would love your perspective on these as well. Okay?

So the first one is because I actually want to know these things. Like when I ask Eric and Paula, they're doing the thing that I love at a really high level. Now you're doing something that I once thought I had zero interest in. And now somehow I'm like, 100 mile to me is still like, no, I'm never doing that. But a 50K, I'm like, oh, yeah, I want to do that. And there was a time where I'd be like, I'm not even going to do a marathon. Like, that's impossible.

That's how it works its way in? Gateway drug. So that's what I want to know. How far back in time do we have to go before Elise Lagerstrom said, no, I would never even try a 100-mileer? How many years ago is that? Or was there never a point in your life where you thought, no, I'll never do that? So that's an interesting question. we would not have to go back very far.

We'll just go with that. I think that, I mean, running was never good to me. I tried to run. I tried really hard, but I never considered myself a runner. Even in triathlon, I was kind of like just get as far ahead as you can on the swim and the bike and then just hope and pray that like everyone else is dead on the run because you've just got to hold on. So we don't actually have to go back that far. I think that it would probably 100 miles. Now, even when I started running ultras,

I didn't think 100 miles was in my range. So even two years ago, after I ran my first 50K, I was pretty sure that I was dying and my feet were going to fall off. Well, you probably were. So I think that, yeah, even going back like two and a half, years, there is no way like 100 miles wasn't in my like realm of possibilities. But at the same time, I do remember like watching YouTube videos. They had some good ones put out, I think, in probably 2018, maybe even earlier, 2017, about Western States actually. Like, and I watched it,

they made one about the women's field. And it was pretty impactful. And I remember watching and thinking like, wow, that's really cool. Like that looks like almost impossible. But I'm pretty sure I can do it. Like, I mean, at that point, I probably couldn't even run like a half marathon, but I was like, I could do it. Like, it's fine. Like, they don't have to run the whole way. Like, I can hike. Wow. Oh, man. So beware of starting to do ultras and beware of YouTube videos about Western States. If you're doing it for me too, because it's a slippery slope. I really do it. I'm on the same page, though, with like 50K. 50K sounds like, oh, I could do that. But if you're telling me that I'm going to want to do 100 miles after that, maybe I should just stay away. But I do feel confident

that I will never do a hundred mile race. That's just, even 100K is like, really. It's like, ridiculous. We're going to save this recording for playback in 10 years. Yeah. Right. No, just wait until he does this first 50K and then we'll just replay it. Oh, I will do it. Okay. Next one here. What did you find is more challenging triathlons or ultras? I think they're very different. It's really hard to compare difficulty. I think that like the experience physically of doing like a 70.3 as hard as you can and racing. I would say is more painful and difficult. I would say mentally going out there and being prepared to spend 30 hours on a trail

is much more difficult mentally and is mentally fatiguing in a way that triathlon could never be. And training is kind of the same way. I mean, training for 70.3 is very difficult. but I seldom rode more than like six hours at a time. I mean, you can, but I didn't do very much more than that. But it's really not uncommon for me to like go out and run for seven hours by myself and like not see another person. And so it's just a different kind of tough.

It's like, okay, you got to go out there and you have to be okay with being by yourself and just going. So I think it's more of a mental toughness rather than like a physical can. you do it. And it's less of like how hard can I mentally push myself, but more like, how bad do I want this? And am I enjoying this still? And can I make this fun in some way? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Especially when it's like your income is not dependent. Like nothing super serious other than your desire to do it is contingent on you or finishing that. You know, it's like, it's not like me or Paula trying to hang tough at the end of a 70.3. And it's like, oh, if one

person passes me, that's $3,000. It's just, why do I want to be here? And do I want to continue for another eight hours or something? I just, I couldn't believe it. When you were stuck at that, um, aid station in like the middle of the night at that Oregon Cascades 100 and you were like 50 miles or something and you, you couldn't keep anything down because you thought you needed salt, but you actually needed anything but salt. And I was like texting you like, hey, I don't want to like give you an out, but if you're, like, not sure if you can make it to the next aid station, I will come get you. And you were there for, like, what, 45 minutes or an hour and then just, like, kept going into the night. I was so blown away.

Like, that is not obviously, like, this physical last 5K of a Iron Man thing. That's just, like, getting your brain wrapped around another 40 miles in the pitch black. Insane. Yeah. Yeah, it's completely different. And it's different in a way that I really love. that's for sure. Yeah, that is wild.

Okay, so now this is what I want to know from both of you. I'm really curious about this from both of you. Do you feel like you are mentally gifted for this? Do you feel like you were given a genetic gift for this kind of suffering that you need for ultras? And Eric, I want to know if you feel you have the same gift for triathlon. I think that my gift in triathlon, I have a bit of what Elise has of that mental tenacity, but I think I also have an ability to reframe things pretty well. And like this is super windy and where you could look at it, like, that sucks.

And I feel like I'm going to get blown off my bike. I get into like, oh, this is like an interesting challenge and just different than normal. And like I'm going to be the fastest I've ever been into the wind. I feel like I'm pretty good at reframing. things into a positive way. That's actually really interesting because those are two different things. Because I'm the same as you, Eric. I feel like I can't just endure, but I am good at shifting it into a potential positive. Like when I'm suffering, it's like, okay, I just need to think about this other thing, whereas some people, maybe like Elise, they're just like, this hurts,

it sucks, and I'm getting through it. I'm here for it. Yeah. No, I think you're totally right. because I actually, I think I really suck at reframing things. It's kind of just like acceptance. And I think, I don't know if I want to say mentally gifted or just extremely practiced at not giving up and being like annoyingly persistent no matter what. Like deciding and then just I'm not giving up no matter what. I don't mean this is an insult, but Eric did mention that about you. He said that you were like that, that you will not give up. As a matter of fact, there were no questions about this.

So I feel like I want to ask this because this is kind of an interesting thing. Did you have any injuries during Western States? Yeah, I did, unfortunately. Yeah, I know you did, but I want to hear about it. Yeah, Western States wasn't the day I had dreamed about or planned for or even like worst-case scenario planned for, unfortunately. So Western States is your snowy, which was. great in many ways because it was cooler. And it was beautiful, which I mean, it was totally enjoyable. But unfortunately, what happened was in the first 20 miles at some point, because we ran through 20 miles of snow, I fell at some point. I fell multiple times. Everyone fell multiple times. It's not like a strange thing to be falling.

Yeah. That was like the number one thing I read about people. Their race recaps. Yeah, yeah. It was just like constant like sliding and falling. And so I mean, in itself, like, yeah, sure, I was like a little bit beat up, but I didn't really recognize I had a problem until like mile 25. And mile 25 is when there was like a steep uphill. And I realized at first, like, okay, like I'm having trouble breathing and on the uphill, which I thought was really strange, but I kind of just like put it in my mind of like, okay, well, you're at altitude, like you're not super used to altitude and more like at 8,000 feet. Like you probably can't breathe. But it's fine. Yeah.

So I just kept running with it, and it seemed to be fine, like, as long as I was running flat or downhill. And then all of a sudden, when I started climbing again, there was a really steep section for several miles up that you kind of, like, you have to be hands on knees climbing. The pain came back, and I realized, like, I had done something definitely to, like, my back and ribs. So it kind of just, like, every time I bent over to try to climb or I was leaning forward, there was, like, stabbing pain. behind my shoulder blades. This is insane because I only found out about this from dad at like mile 60. And you were, hurt your back, hurt. Hurt your back.

She still hasn't given away what actually happened. Yeah. Well, I was kind of like, I mean, at first it was like, it's not a problem. It's the altitude. And I told my crew, and at mile 30, I was like, there's something weird. Like, I can't breathe. And they're like, okay, yeah, it's fine. I can't breathe.

I can't breathe. we just need to, like, I'll go down faster. We'll just go down faster. Of course. And so, but it didn't, it got worse and worse, of course, because as things do. Yeah. And so, I mean, I still don't really know exactly what was going on. I think, I mean, I've seen like a couple of like Cairo PT massage type people.

The ER dock at one of the aid stations was thinking that I might have cracked a rib or or fractured like a spinous process of my spine, which I thought was like a little overkill. But basically you just told me like, well, you're not going to make it worse and you're not going to make it better. So like you can just run on. Wait, how are they making that call?

It's not like they're taking a scan of you on trail. Well, that's what I was saying. He's like, well, I can't like promise you that it's not broken. But if it is that, like, it's not going to get any better by you stopping and it's not going to get any worse. So like you can just run. My very limited medical knowledge is really questioning that decision that that doctor made.

You're not going to make it worse? How do they... I mean, unless like fell on it again or something, but it was pretty safe at that point. Which could have happened, right? Like, people were falling all over. Like, our friend Heather Jackson, unfortunately, she heard herself so bad she couldn't finish

and she had to like hike out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Narley. Okay, so gnarly is right. Okay.

So, yeah. Now I want to know, do you think you're physically gifted for this? For ultra running? No. Yes. No. No. Isn't that so interesting?

Isn't that so interesting? Why do you say that? Because someone might say you maybe broke your back at mile 20 and you still finished a race. Obviously your body is extraordinarily strong. And you have like you you say strong. You haven't withered away into like the way that some ultra runners they can't like they just become very weakened by all the volume. You have not. You've stayed like strong. It seems like you do have a genetic kind of gift there. But tell me why you, why you don't. I mean, I think that,

well, whether or not I fell and hurt myself, I definitely didn't break my back. Still, thinking that's a little overkill. Like, I definitely hurt something. Yeah. But I don't know. It's just like I hate to stereotype like what a runner looks. like, but there is a definite advantage to, like, not having as much muscle mass in your shoulders and back, which I do from, you know, 18 years of swimming. And honestly, like, I've probably maintained that, if not increased that recently, because I've taken up climbing. And it's just, like, I recognize that, like, my muscle mass is not something that I'm going to get rid of, even if I were to drop everything that I was doing that I enjoyed, like, that wouldn't be,

it would look weird anyways, but like, it wouldn't get me to where I wanted to be. And so I think that just based on, you know, like body type, body shape and how far I got in triathlon and how much amount of time, like, I think I was more suited to triathlon, to be honest. but I think mentally I'm probably more suited to ultra running. And I'm okay with that. Yeah, I kind of, it's funny that you say that about the ideal running body type, because I feel like maybe at the super high level, you do get these certain runners that are that you're talking about.

But even at the ultra distance, at the ultra distance, it seems like you have people that are a little bit stronger, that they do have more muscle because it seems like to be, to make it that far, you need to have that. You do. No, I think it's a really good point because, yeah, definitely, like, a marathoner is not the same as an ultra-runner. That's 100% true.

Strength training is extremely important. Injury prevention, number one, but also just, like, being able to take the pounding of the downhills over 100 miles, like, your quads have to be incredibly strong. And that takes a lot of training to get that way. So it's not the same form. And even if you think about the different types of ultra running, going sort of niche, is like, okay, you have Western states, which is like, it's a mountain race, but it's less mountainous than we'll say something in Europe,

where, you know, the European mountain races are extremely steep and technical and where you need to use poles. And any time you need to use poles, you actually do have to have a super strong overbody. whereas more of like someone who's a professional schemo racer is going to have actually like a superior adaptation to that actual movement pattern. So I think it is very different. So it's different depending on what type of racing you want to do. But it definitely does favor a stronger body.

I mean, I think injury prevention is number one. You have to be strong enough to just take that pounding and take it for an extremely long time. This is part of what got me into triathlon was that I was like, I'm never going to be a skinny little cyclist. I don't want to be, but I'm also genetically never going to be. And so triathlon felt a little more exciting about that.

Eric, what about you? Do you feel like you have like you're physically kind of gifted for triathlon? Yeah, but I think I think Elise and I have the same genetics in common where we are able to handle a lot of pounding. You know, like I've had this problem with my hip for six years now.

and I've had one stress fracture in my foot, otherwise been completely bomb-proof pretty much, had almost no injury issues after I got through the initial couple years of learning to run after having grown up a swimmer. It's been pretty smooth sailing. So I think that would definitely be something that's like in our genetics we have strong bones

or something like that and just like an ability to kind of handle a high volume of work. And I think for me that has over the course of 15 years of doing triathlon, my body has just kind of like slowly become optimized for the activity that I'm doing. So but when I first started into it and when I first started running, like I got comments all the time like, oh, you're a pretty husky for a runner. You know, it's like so no, I didn't, I didn't just instantly like have the perfect physique for

it, but I think over a long period of time without trying to force anything, like your body kind of figures out what the optimal form is. But yeah, volume handling, I guess, is in a mental ability to just keep at it when it's maybe not glamorous. Yeah. And then my last little thing is, and Eric, I already know the answer for you, but I still would like for you to kind of give it a quick little answer, is, is it always type two fun or is it also sometimes fun in the moment? Have you ever heard of type two fun, Elise? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, have you? Yeah. I heard of for 28 hours straight. See also ultra running.

Yes, exactly. But yeah, so Eric, I know it's not always type two fun for you. Like you like racing and you like being in the race, right? There are moments that are hard, of course. But there are moments that are euphoric in the race. For sure. When you're legitimately racing, for me, I need to be like kind of close to somebody else. I don't get so much into the like, I'm 10 minutes in the lead or I'm, you know, I don't

see anybody around me. I really loved the ITU format for that. It felt like I'm right next to the person that I'm racing and it's a little bit easier to lose yourself and forget about the effort and kind of go beyond. So there's, I think there are definitely a lot of moments of type, whatever, not the type two fun. Yeah, type one fun, I guess. I actually, I don't really hear like actual, talked about like that. Real fun. It's mixed in there for sure. At least, what about you? I think there's definite moments of fun, fun, normal fun. I wouldn't say there was a lot of normal fun, like, in the middle of a hundred-mile race, but even that being said, like, there are moments of actual fun.

Like, I find it so fun to run downhill. Like, that's where I can find flow. And anytime I, like, flow state is just incredible. Other times, like, I thought it was truly fun in the middle of Western states. we had to take a raft across the river and they were rafting us across. Like that was definite fun even though I was like incredibly sick

and it was I don't know like 3 a.m. It was still fun. Like I was so excited to be rafted across this river. And then the finish was definitely like real fun. Like I don't remember being in pain. Like it was fun fun to be in that moment. That finish is so cool. Yeah, it is.

Like I can't believe that every runner that comes in, they like run around and like have you on the live screen and like, we watched you for a minute of running around the track. At least it was mind-blowing. Such a vibe. No, I mean, it is. It's an incredible vibe. And it only gets better, like, the farther you go kind of into, I guess, the midday,

the later you go into the race. So funny. Because, like, more people start gathering to watch, like, the final finishers and more people, you know, start gathering to do the end of race celebration. And yeah, I, it's just an incredible vibe for every single person you crosses that finish line. Like, I'm not sure actually how many people are there for like the winner, but there is pretty much everyone there for the last, you know, 30 people. And just the greatest cheering section. And you have, you know, people with cameras running out like a mile to meet each person so that they can get, you know,

live stream on you for like a mile. It's just ridiculous. And so well organized. Yeah. And just it's really fun. It's really fun. One thing I had one question. I just, because I'm not totally sure, is it like 350 to 500? Like how many people actually get to do it?

So it depends on the year. They've got like an average of 370 to 380 based on permitting, but it's always like 370, 380. Yeah. Wow. Okay. God. I never ever want to do it.

I just want to say that. officially. No, you totally do. You're smiling right now. Like, you want to do it. I'm telling myself, I never, ever want to do it. Guys, hold me accountable. Kids, TTL kids hold me accountable. Do not let me try to do this race. Oh my God. See, that's the thing, though. You're going to like go do one. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I just did a qualifier. Like, oh, I better just put my name in the lottery. Like, because I'll never get, I'll never get chosen. At least what have you done to me? And so then you have time. And then all of a sudden you're investing. You're like, well, I've got one ticket. Now I better get like two tickets. You know, what if I want to do this one day?

It's a sick. This is sick. I know. Hold in. So this, I just want the very last thing before we get to questions, is, do you do this because of the fun? Or is there something else? Is there some life satisfaction about achieving something that's impossible? That's beyond fun. It's beyond fun. Yeah. I mean, I find it fun. Yes. Sometimes. But I think it is more of like the satisfaction. And I mean, it's incredibly satisfying. I think alter running. I mean, I think anyone can think about like if you haven't done an alter before, like thinking about like, okay, could I do a 50K?

Like it's a huge question mark. Like can I do that and think like, well, maybe I could. But do you actually know that? Like do you know you could finish a 50K? Like I'm not really sure. And so for me it was like, okay, well, I did the 50K. like I know I can do a 50k like pretty much under any conditions. Okay, can I do 50 miles?

Like, I don't know. Like that's a couple more hours. Like, so I got to test that. And then all of a sudden it's like 100K like, okay, that's not much further. So like definitely can do like another 10K or maybe it's 20K. Yeah. So I definitely can do that. And then after that you're like 100 miles.

Like I think that's another 12 hours. Like can I really do that? And then you're just questioning it. And then you're like, I need to find out. like I need to find out if I can do this. I think a thousand people just signed up for their first old trip. Yeah. That's what I think just happened.

I mean, it's just like, it started out. It's just to be like, I think I can do this. I'm not really sure, but I think I can. And I need to go find out. And if I fail, like, who cares? Because, like, you're running a 50K. Like, if you say, like, oh, I failed at running a 50K, people are going to be like, who cares? Right.

It's not like a 5K walk-a-thon, right? Yeah. Yeah. First of all, you know, no one could know because you would be out in the middle of nowhere. So, like, they'd never find out if you didn't want them to. And if you, yeah, did tell them, they'd still be impressed. So it didn't matter. Yeah. So that's got to be, that's like got to be, I mean, I'm just imagining myself. Like, you know, it was the same thing. That's got to be like of quite the rush of like I signed up for this thing. I actually don't. There's not many things in our lives that we legitimately don't know if we could do that are left out there. And this is like one of them. And then, I mean, if you've done the 50K a couple times, then you need that hit again. There's only one way to go. Oh, my God.

Yeah. This is sick. I just feel the change happening in my mind. It's all making sense. I hate it. I hate it. It does. I mean, and then it becomes all relative.

And then your friends change. And here's the problem. You know, when your friends change, this, like, normalizes. And you're like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then, like, a 50K is like, oh, yeah, I just did 50K this weekend. Like, no big deal.

And you're like, okay, so if they did a 50K for the weekend, and like obviously like that's not the hard. So like 50 miles. Yeah. Yeah. Like 50 miles. Okay. That's a good goal.

John can do it. Yeah. It just like suddenly becomes normal. And I mean, I don't want to ever say like running 100 miles is normal. Maybe it will be one day to me. But it's not. And it's still like a huge question mark. If I sign up for another 100, you know, tomorrow, it would be a huge question mark in my mind.

Like, can I finish this? Like, there are so many things. things that can go wrong. So many questions, like the conditions can be, you know, terrible or great. Or, you know, there's so many different scenarios that can play out. And I think it's still just like, it's a huge question. Like, are you going to get to the finish or not? And granted, you can have other goals. But I think any time you're on the starting life at a Voltra, like, you're really trying to figure out, like, can I even finish this? It's funny how a lot of triathletes, like, I remember I had this about my first Olympic distance triathlon.

Like, am I actually going to be able to finish this? You know, who knows what's going to happen? And our bodies are so amazing and resilient and can grow and adapt that at some point, an Olympic feels like an easy morning, you know? And these ultras feel like the next challenge. It's just incredible. There's something different, innately different about can I go one minute faster than last time versus can I even complete.

Yeah. Yeah. And I like that. And I like that it becomes a mental challenge. Like, no matter what, like, can I go, you know, a minute, an hour, 10 minutes faster? Like, that's a good challenge. And like, that's a question mark. But it's a different question than can I make it to the finish? Because that really is a choice. Like, can I go a minute faster? That depends on a conditions, like how you're feeling, how your taper went. Are you sick? Are you, like, recovering from injury? So many things that. Maybe or may or not be out of, you know, inner or your control, but like, can I make it to the finish? It feels like a choice. In most cases, it is a choice. Like, do I want it bad enough to actually make it to the finish? Wow. Mike dropped. Mike dropped for sure. Okay, so we're going to move on to questions now, even though we're like 35 minutes into the podcast. So, first of all, as you guys have noticed, or at least you may not have noticed, but we don't do ads on this podcast.

because we rely on our podcast supporters, and we rely on the questions from everyone. So you can become a podcast supporter yourself for $5 a month, and you can also submit questions to the podcast at That TriathlonLife.com slash podcast. We really appreciate that. It kind of keeps this all moving smoothly. I hope this is smooth.

We're using a different recording technique this time since we have a lease with us. We'll see. We'll see. Okay, so the first question is actually from L.E. Altouse and Zaki. It was the first one that popped up on the Instagram questions thing. Our new Ben teammates and house sitters at the moment. Yeah. So, and there were actually a lot of questions about this.

How do you keep, and most of them was about racing, but I'm curious about it in training as well. How do you keep your feet in good shape or something like that? I mean, is it inevitable that they get ripped to shreds and it's just about mitigating loss? or are there ways to keep them healthy? Is it about, do your feet get used to it? I'm so curious. That's a really good question. So I'm assuming you mean like blisters and not like brokenness.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, blisters, blisters. Yeah. So, I mean, even a year ago, I would have just said it's inevitable and like suck it up. But I think that I've worked on this so much over the past year, of finding the right shoe sock combination with the correct like blister prevention measures to make it so I don't get blisters. And I do not think it's inevitable now.

Wow. I don't want to say like I've cracked it because I think every race is different, but I didn't have any blisters from Western States. Like I raised 100 miles with, I mean, what feet most of the time and did not get blisters. People can't even get through a 5K Getting out my not my notepad. Here we go.

So, I mean, whatever you're willing to share, we'd love to hear, like, what works. And obviously, every foot is different. Everyone's skin is different. You know, people need different things. But what worked for you? So it's actually very complicated, which is why it took me so long to come up with. And it's, I mean, yes, every foot is different. And I was very prone to blisters. I mean, I would get, yeah, blisters every single run I went on.

So I really have had to work through this on every single run that I do. So first thing was finding like the right shoe combination, like the right shoes that would fit. And I needed something that was like wide in the toe box, but like I don't have wide feet. So that's hard. And then you want something that's like supportive, you know, still. So I most recently started running in North Face's new line of shoes. And they've been absolutely amazing. with, like, having a wide enough toe box and flexible, like, upper to accommodate, like, spreading toes, but not actually having a white shoe.

Because you don't want to move around, but you want to be not cramped. Yeah, yeah. And then the number two thing was socks. So I switched over to, like, a, it used, like, Swiftwick, like, Trail Elite. Anyways, they're, like, a wool-based sock. So that's helped a lot with keeping my feet dry. even after getting them, like, soaked, like they dry really fast. Do you still do toe socks?

That's what I was going to ask, because I do toe socks on trails. That was a thing. I remember at one point. Yeah, well, because I have super bad blisters. It's the strangest thing. I've never seen anyone with so many issues between, like, my big foot, my big toe and my second toe, there's like a blister between them. And then there's also, like, a really bad blister.

Like, my little toe crosses under my fourth toe on both feet. And so they're not actually like friction blisters, they're pressure blisters. So, yeah. So even if I would wear like the toe socks, like it did not matter because I would still get them. Yeah. And so that took me a long time to figure out that like just like adding socks to it was not, was not fixing the issue. So now what I do, hence the complication is basically I use like on my big, toe and my second toe because they're like they're colliding so much. I use um some sheep's wool or lamb's wool

and basically like wrap my toes and lambs wool. I guess dancers do it every time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I won't do it on like a 10k but I'll do it like on any run probably over like 10 miles. Um, so I'll wrap the, like big toe and second toe and the lambs wool and then like put this like rubber cover over them and like that separates them enough and like completely removes the friction and the sweat from the situation. And then I just put the rubber cover like over my little toe and that like makes it so it can't get smushed. Wow.

So yeah, it's like a situation. That's amazing though. But it works. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think like the, yeah, I know. The lambswell was a game changer.

I think because my feet got so sweaty and it like wicks away the sweat and keeps them dry. It's amazing. Amazing. I've also heard really good things about those North Face shoes for trail. Yes. They're amazing. Yeah. Cool.

Okay, great. Next one here, there was about a million of these. How did you fuel during Western states? And did you fuel any differently than your previous 100-mile race? Because I remember you were having GI distress during your first 100-mile as well, right? Yeah, and I'm like, I've seen your spreadsheets and stuff and there's like, for sure the like planned and then there's the like in case of emergency. Worst case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. So the plane. The plan was great for the first 40 miles. The plan's always great. The plan's great. We know the plan's great.

The plan was great for like, yeah, 12 hours. So, you know, how long about I'd practice? You know, the plan was great for that amount of time. And then all of a sudden the plan doesn't work anymore. And like I'd plan for the plan not to work. So at that point, it's just like aid station food, which is great. So the plan will say in the first half of the race, well, it was for the whole thing, but it was only the first half, was to do a combination of goo rock-tane.

water as like my liquid source and then gels primarily with also good shoes as like my main calorie source. Then at aid stations I would just like pick up random food, usually like fruit, which would, that sounded good. So do you have like a chest bottle of like the ractane and then one of water that you're carrying separately? Yeah. Yeah.

So usually, yeah, I carry one of ractane, one of water. And then I usually carry a third flask like in the back where I can. refill with just whatever I want. Okay. And so whether that be water, goo, or Coke, usually.

So I drink a lot of Coke. I never drink Coke in, like, real life, but during these races, I think I drink, like, a flat of soda.

Wow. It's a lot. It's a lot of, a lot of Coke goes down. You got to do what you got to do. Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah.

I think, I mean, it's just, like, glorious. You get a flask full of Coke down, and it's like, 15 minutes of heaven.

Sugar and caffeine. Of course it feels good. 15 minutes of heaven. Brachi by Coke. So yeah, that's like the main idea plan. And then try to get in solids, which yeah, sometimes I can do like sandwiches. Like peanut butter and jelly is great,

but like peanut butter gets like sticky. So there's all these challenges. But then the second half the race, like everything, you just throw the plan out of the window because that doesn't work anymore. And define that doesn't work anymore. What's going on here? Is it pallet fatigue?

Is it your feeling actually ill? Is it that you feel so full you can't put anything down mentally? What's the barrier? You know that it's different in every situation. For me in this situation, it wasn't pallet fatigue. I could have eaten the same thing. Like, I don't get goof palate fatigue. Like, I could eat goose all day.

I don't really care. Like, they don't taste good, but they don't taste bad. Same thing with Coke. Same thing with rockane. Like, you could drink it all day. don't really care. But I was having, like, GI distress. And I think it was a combination of, like, being in pain and then, like, trying to get

calories down really quickly on the downhill because I knew I wasn't going to be able to eat on the uphill. So I think that, like, trying to, like, it was very, like, uneven. My fueling was sort of an issue. So at a certain point, like, I just wasn't, I didn't feel like I could eat anything because I was so nauseous. And so it, which is just, like, yeah. like the worst because like I know I need to eat something and then I'm so nauseous.

Um, so that was the main issue that I had. Yeah, which was it's brutal. Fortunately, um, I didn't get like extremely nauseous into like mile 75. So I was able to get like only 25 to go. No big deal. Fortunately. Fortunately, fortunately, I only had a marathon to go and I was extremely nauseous. I love that perspective.

Yeah, yeah. So my pacer, Taylor, was absolutely wonderful. Thank you, Eric, so much for setting me up with him. The greatest guy. Like, we met two days before the race. Like, he came down here to help me out. Him and, yeah, his partner and then their friend, Esme, which lovely people. Oh, man. So they come down here, but I've never met them before. And so he's like cheering me on trying to, you know, because you get a pacer during these races for the second half, essentially. So he's like trying to keep me going. And we just have. like a great 10 miles of me like running pretty well and then all of a sudden like I'm notious like this is not like no more food like no more water please don't like and so he's like trying to push me keep me going just so nice and also I'm like no I can't like I need to rest so we're on this hill and like I'm in pain and so I'm like I'm in pain like I'm complaining a little bit and I'm like I'm really nauseous and he's like come on just get to the top of the hill and then we'll run down the bottom, like run down the other side. And I get to the top of the hill, which is not that big of a hill.

It was steep, but it was not that big. And, like, I kind of just, like, heel over and start puking, like, just all over the trail. Yeah, that's good. And he's like, oh, okay. Okay. It's, like, the greatest guy ever who's, like, fully prepared for this. So, yeah, I mean, when I say I was nauseous, I was, like, really nauseous because there

was nothing left of my stomach then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're bringing something off. It's like it's at nine out of ten. It's not a like, hey, I'm starting to feel a little.

Right. Right. Yeah. But then it was the greatest thing ever because after that was done, like I'd been feeling nauseous for a while. After that was over, I was like a new person again. Like that's over. I feel amazing. Like, let me just take in whatever.

So it's back to like, okay, let's get the Coke down. Like so excited. I could get it down again. And then we were like, you know, got to an AIDS. station fortunately. It was just like, okay, let's figure out what I can eat. And the only thing that looked good was like ruffles. And they was like, I could eat ruffles. And he's like, okay. So he like, grabs me this boat of ruffles and like is running carrying the ruffles beside me and feeding me ruffles because like that's the only thing I think I can get down is like

Coke and Ruffles. Yeah. So yeah, it was pretty much then like Coke and Ruffles. And it worked for while. Yeah. Man, I think I want somebody running next to me in a triathlon giving me Coke and ruffles. We need to implement this pacer technology situation. I got you, bro. I'll even bring you oatmeal raisin cookies if you really are nice to me. All right.

You're my guy. So, wait, Elise, how much do you think that you actually did need those ruffles? Like, you were hungry for them because that's what you needed. Like, how good was your mind at sending that signal? 100%. I mean, it was clear that, like, I knew I needed calories, obviously, but like at that point, I think it was like, yes, I want something salty. Like, that was very clear.

Yeah. I want something salty, and I do need fluid to go with it. And like the Coke was the sugar. So sugar, fluid, and salt. Like, all you need. Yep. Got it. Okay, great.

So, oh boy. Di Gousalas on Instagram. Strength routine and cross-training. So what do you do for strength? And do you still bike and swim ever? You climb, you said. Yeah. So this is a really interesting question.

Um, up until, so I did my first hundred last August. Um, and up until then I was doing basically a lot of just try training. I was doing a ton of cross training with, um, bike and swim mixed in with my run to keep my run volume lower. Um, and then I made some changes and I switched over to being, I would say, a runner back in in basically September, October. So I do not swim or bike anymore. I haven't touched a bike since October. Um, and, um, and, I haven't been in the pool since October, which is kind of crazy since that was my life for so long. But during my recovery from my last 100, a climbing gym opened near my house. And I was like, I think that'd be like a good, you know, something to keep me busy. So I was like my mind off of like wanting to go run and run too early. When you're not running seven hours on a training run. Yeah. You were like having a little bit of a harder time recovering from the Oregon 100, right?

So like instead of just stare at the water. wall. Yeah, I was, I was pretty, I don't want to say I wasn't seriously injured, but I had like a neat niggle that would not go away. So I just started climbing. And I love it. And I would say it's probably not the world's best like strength training program for running, but it's not terrible. So, I mean, there's a ton of like core strength involved. There's a ton of leg strength involved. and arm strength, which is not entirely, like, useful. But until you need those poles. That's right.

Until you need the poles. And then, I mean, if there's like a climbing running race, I'm so ready. You're ready. Which is like called mountaineering, you know, actually. Next step. Only I don't like the snow. So there's that problem. But I don't do a strength training program anymore.

I do a lot of PT-type activation exercises. and usually just like problem solving any niggles that come up. So it's more PT body weight base. But I don't have a specific program. It's kind of like issue of the week. And then just staying like fit. I mean, the climbing gym has a gym. So like I do sometimes go into the gym area and we'll do some like light lunch type work.

But it's nothing, no formal strength training anymore. I think that the listeners are probably, some listeners are probably freaking out thinking that you do all this without strength training. But how much do you think that it's, how different is it on your body to run on pavement with the exact same type of impact versus on a trail where you are constantly varying this type of impact, your cadence, the angle at which you're, you know, all this stuff? And do you do most of your training not on a flat surface? So yeah, I think that's, that's a really good point. And that has changed to tons and switching over to ultra running and trail running in general. Because before, I would maybe do a trail run on the weekends if I was doing tries, but not really because I was afraid of getting hurt.

But now I would say I do 80 to 90% of my training on trail. It's like if I have a super short run or something that I just can't get in, I'll run from home. But even then I can usually get on like a dirt path for the majority of my time. And so I think that it's incredibly important because a lot of the strength work that you need for ultra running, it's built into the vert essentially. Like when you're running up a hill, it's an incredible, yeah, it's incredibly specific, incredibly like taxing muscularly rather than aerobically. I mean, you get both, but it really, I think it does a ton for your muscles to go uphill and then especially downhill. I think that's the major sort of defining feature of ultra running is like you have to be able to run downhill. And whoever has their quads the longest is like who stays in the race.

Yeah. And there are ways to do that. I mean, you can lift a ton and do a ton of strength training, or you can just run down hills. Yeah. Yeah. And if you run down hills, like, you're going to have better technique. You're going to develop all the muscles in your feet and ankles. You're going to become less injury prone due to ankle sprain, and you're going to develop, like, all of the lower leg muscles.

So most of it, it's way more fun. It's way more fun than being in a gym. So, yeah, I think a lot of it, the strength work is built into just doing running trails, running hard trails. and really concentrating on running them well and running the downs. Nice. Love it. Now, next question is from, I'm not even going to try to pronounce this. It's an Instagram handle.

Do you intentionally train for mental toughness? Or is that something that you don't really think about? You're worried about the physical, the mental toughness just comes on its own. It's something I, it's a big part of Alter running that I think I should be training for. But I think it's built in also. So, yes, there's like, definitely. mental training programs that I think would be incredibly beneficial for me to do that I should be doing. But I think a lot of it's also built in to just like, okay, I'm going out and like I'm going to run for

five hours and that's what I'm doing. Eric, do you ever think about that? Do you ever think about when you're training, do you think about I'm, you know what, this is painful, but I want to do this not just to prove to myself that I can do it, but to make me mentally tougher so that when it happens in a race, I'm more prepared for it. Yeah, I usually try to take that approach when I'm headed out on a bike workout that I don't want to do and I'm tired already and like I really don't nothing no part of this sounds like any sort of type one fun but I know that if I can get through this and complete it that's going to that will give me like the ultimate confidence of I can show up to any race feeling awful and still execute even though it's going to feel terrible right right execute is right

um okay next question is from mermaid queen of America which is a great Instagram handle um is all of your training long runs or do you still do some intervals and some quality work. Oh, I definitely do some intervals and quality work. Do long runs mostly on the weekends, but during the week I will do yeah, interval workouts, hill workouts, pretty short, just, well, I'd say short intervals. Yeah, how long is an interval? No.

It depends on the season, what season I'm in. So it can be like three-minute intervals. Oh, just like what we do. It's like the same. Yeah. Yeah, or up to like 20 minute more tempo intervals or 30 minute. So it's a lot the same. Like the short speed work is a lot the same as triathlon.

I just say less of it and more focus on the long runs. But we still do like honestly identical, I would say. Wow. Like quality work. Would you say you like try to skew the intervals to more uphills or are you try to do flat and get leg speed? Also dependent on the season. but I yeah so in the winter I will do like even track work but what I found is really helpful is doing the intervals on the trail like not necessarily super technical trail but doing it on trail and learning to run fast on trail is a lot different than just like running on trail.

Totally. And so if they do your intervals like on that trail you become so much more confident whether or not it's up or down like down's really important. Up's also important. Up is like physically I'd say much harder. but down is mentally much harder and technique-based. And the intervals are good for all of that. So I think doing them on a trail, though, is just great. That's interesting.

Okay, next question here is from Kyrshna Dov. And I'm always curious about this, too. What metrics do you look at on your watch while you're racing? If the watch isn't dead, of course. Or do you not really pay attention to the watch? I mean, what do you have on there? What are the things that you're looking at? So I don't really pay attention to the watch.

Yeah. I look at, I guess, mile, like where I'm at, mileage, time of day. Are you like trying to use, does the time of day or like the number of miles dictate, like, your nutrition? Like, you're like, I got to take a gel every 45 minutes, or is it like, is that? Oh, that's a good idea. No, it does not. That's a good idea. She hasn't thought of that before.

You're welcome. No, I have, I have like, yeah, granted, I try to do like, yeah, every 30, 45 minutes, I'm taking something in. And it's pretty easy to just, like, keep track about it. But usually, honestly, it's just like, just doing it constantly. It's funny, the race pictures just came out. And I sort of like, every one of them I'm carrying a gel in, which I'm like, yes, proud of, like, carrying my gel. Yeah. So, but mainly, honestly, all I look at is, like, yeah, time of day.

And that's because it's just, like, interesting to know. And then, yeah, where I'm at, like, mileage-wise, because you need to know where the aid station. are. So, um, but other than that, like lap pace like, because I, my lap, my, my, my watch does lap every mile. But like lap pace, like, no, who knows what happened in that mile. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, like, pace overall, like, what are you going to do to change that? Not much, like you're doing your best. It's all just like so varied, like anyone metric is going to break down in, in 15 different scenarios, right? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, lap, if you do it's like average pace.

So Western States starts with basically a run up a ski hill for an hour. So like you're starting with like your average is screwed. So like you're going to spend the entire race trying to make up for that if you're worried about like average pace so just don't even look at it.

No, but I was curious like Eric was saying like maybe you lap it every 30 minutes you try to take a gel or you like to look at air temperature or look at how much how many feet of climbing is left on that hill. You know, if you have anything like that. But no, not really. You just take it as it comes. No. I mean, because I don't know.

Wow. We are, I'm finding out that we are so similar. I mean, I know exactly what the aid stations are. You've already done that planning and all that. Yeah. I mean, and so I kind of keep track in like, well, in this race, like the aid stations were usually about like an hour apart. So it's like, well, I need to take in like a whole bottle and then something else between these aid stations. So that's kind of how I gauged it. It's like bottle and something. Yeah.

Okay, next one here from Mortified Ghost. What is the longest training run you will do leading up to 100-mile? And there were a lot of people that asked that question. Oh, yeah. Me too. You know, a marathon, people try to do 20, 22 miles, but 100-mile, they're like, you're not doing a 90-mile. Yeah. You're not doing that.

So it's kind of a complicated answer because, I mean, I would say that I did a 50-mile training race in prep. And, like, that's pretty common. I did a training race. So, like, I did a zero taper, 50-mile or essentially. Just in the middle of your training, you just dropped in a 50-mile race. Right. Yeah. So, like, it's not really a training run, but it was a training run in the sense, like, I wasn't able to actually race it because I was exhausted.

But I would say, like, the longest training run, I do a lot of measurement in hours, so it's kind of hard. But maybe, like, 30 to 35 miles. Yeah. But hours does make more sense anyway. get that. Yeah, that way you don't, you're not limited like, like, trying to find a path that's flat so that you don't have to run as long. Yeah. I've seen you do, or you like back to back, like on a weekend, you do like a big run on Saturday and Sunday to like maybe get some of like the similar effect without having to have a crew with you for 20 hours. Yeah, yeah. So that's

almost every weekend I do a pretty big back to back. It's usually, yeah, they're usually at least double-digit days both days. So it's usually like a pretty heavy Saturday, you know, 20, 25 miles and when I'm in like the bulk training and then another day of like 15 to 20-ish miles. No. No, I won't allow that. That's unbelievable. Nick, this is you three years from now. Hope you're taking notes. Yep. It's coming. I did back-to-back trail half marathon days. And can I tell you that I was sore for like six days after that. I was so screwed. I cannot believe you do that.

That's amazing. Okay, next question here. Want to use trekking poles. Do you recommend a certain type? Oh, so I only use them in specific cases when I'm praying for specific races. So I do love, oh, I don't know. They're called like, maybe you can help me pronounce it. Lecky, Lecky, Lecky.

Oh, yeah, I know those. Yeah. Yeah, they're really cool. But yeah, it's like L-E-I-K-E. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. So they're, I really enjoy them.

They have like these special retention straps on your hands. So you don't actually have to like grip the poles. Yeah, that's key. Game changer. So that's what I recommend. And they're super light. Okay. And are they the ones that like, do they telescope or do they kind of break apart and they have that kind of cable throughout it?

Right. Yeah, they break. Into three pieces? Yeah. Yeah. Those are the ways to go for trail running for sure. like throw them out like a lightsaber and then like oh i don't think that's right can you um let's work on that product eric that sounds great yeah yeah that'd be cool it's not that easy unfortunately yeah

i guess you got time to do it though yeah exactly and do you have an idea of what your weekly mileage is like at different phases of your training this is from caleb mcvay and i i like hours hours is fine too uh well miles is pretty easy from strava i mean i think that But during, it doesn't vary that much, which is kind of interesting. I think it really, I hover from like 60 to 75 miles a week. And a lot of that is trail. So like that that's a lot more time if, you know, a lot more miles if you were on flat ground. Right, right.

Yeah. So it's pretty much always on trail with vert. Yeah. Which, I mean, if you were running that on flat like a marathoner, that's probably the amount of time that it would take them to do 120 miles a week. I would guess. like over 100 for sure. Yeah. So it's like pretty similar to what a professional marathoner is doing per week.

Probably. In terms of time. Yeah. I would think so. Way more fun in terms of time. Yeah. Okay. Next one here.

From that boring bloke, power nap or power through? Is this during a race? During a race. This is going to be during a race. Oh, power through. Power through. 100%. That's where I'm going to disagree with you once again.

I feel like if the power nap, like, what are the chances you come back from that? I don't care. I need the relief. It's like recipe for seizing up on the ground. Oh, yeah. Every muscle. Will you get up ever?

God, that's tough. Okay, next one here. Sophie's story. How long do you need to recover between 100-mile races? Good question. I don't think I have that dialed yet. I've only done two now. And number one took me a very long time.

I mean, I was able to run in a couple days, but I was in pain for a long time trying to just get rid of kind of niggle after niggle. So I think I tried to come back a little too fast from that. I would say I wasn't feeling good for another, for probably two months, to be honest. Yeah, it was kind of brutal. And then this one, though, has been different. And I've also treated the recovery totally different. I felt better, I'd say, immediately after than I did on the last one. I pretty much all serenus was gone within three days, which was, I mean, incredible.

And I was able to move really well. I did my first run today, so it's been one week. And in the last seven days, like, I did not do a workout, like zero workout, did not even really go for a walk. Like, just let it be. I had work to do. so just rested. Oh, yeah. We failed to mention that.

You have a full-time job. Yeah. Not a professional ultra-runner. No, no, I'm not. Yeah, definitely not professional. Yeah, so whatever I say with a grain of salt also, I'm still learning. But yeah, I think this recovery seems like it's going better,

but like I don't have the niggles that I'm, I mean, I have a back issue, but I mean, it doesn't feel like a niggle. And I was able to run today, so it's pretty exciting. Thank goodness. Great. I'm glad you said that

because I'll never be doing it so I don't need to know how long I will need to recover between 100 mile races. Next question here is from Wattwin 88. Do you think anyone could train up to 100 mile altrues or are there only certain people

that could do it? Or I guess are there certain people who definitely couldn't maybe because of injuries or something? Yeah, I think that's the biggest defining, I don't want to say everyone can do it because I think there is definite like some people cannot cover a hundred miles safely and it is it's difficult on your bones and muscles and I think that there are people who

may not be able to do that I don't think it's it's something that everyone can do I think it's something that more people can do than they think that's for sure yeah I do you're right about that sadly. Yeah, it's just, it's not that far out of reach for someone who can, I would say, and you don't even have to be able to run, but as someone who's like physically healthy and able to walk or walk, run, I think it's within the range. Yeah. Yeah.

Just committing to doing a thing for a long time. And, yeah, and being willing to devote years to the process. This probably isn't going to be a one-year process of building up to 100 miles, even if you're coming from a very fit background or triathlon. You might be able to do it, but it might not be fun. It's funny because I do think a lot of, I mean, I speak for myself, the reason I got into triathlon, part of the reason, a big reason was that I felt like it was this big challenge that felt like something I would never be able to do.

And it definitely, I grew up not doing endurance sports at all. I was like skateboarding, snowboarding, doing those kind of sports, BMX. And triathlon felt like, wow, if I could do one of those, that would be incredible. And I think Ultra has the same appeal. I think a lot of triathletes are attracted to triathlon for the same reason that Ultra runners are attracted to Ultras. It just feels like, wait, that's not possible. Let me test if it's possible, though. Is it possible?

Okay, so Sarah Myers-21 wants to know, and you've already answered the question about blisters, but what about joint pain? Is joint pain inevitable for ultras? Joint pain. Knees, ankles, hips is what my brain goes too. Yeah, knees. No, not no. I don't think that's guaranteed. I mean, I think you can hurt yourself 100%, but I don't think that you should, I don't think it's inevitable in a race like that or any.

race. I think that you can do a lot with strength training and practice to help your joints get used to the load. So I might have a different answer in 10 years. But right now, I don't think that you have to finish a run with joint pain. No. And this kind of reminds me of something else. Do you feel? you like, would you consider yourself someone who eats really healthy? So, I mean, it was, of course, you know, that's a, depends on who you ask, you know. Do I eat healthy? I would say, yes, I do. I would not say that I am strict, stringent, or even keeping track in any way.

And it's just, I eat usually what sounds good. and I tried to be mindful of am I eating this because it sounds good? Am I eating this because I just want to eat that? And that's an okay answer too. Or do I need to be, like, what do I need to fuel my training for the day? Because honestly, like, that answer is a lot different from what I want to eat when I first get up in the morning. Like, I need to eat way more to fuel my day than I actually want to eat.

And the composition is completely different. So being mindful of like, what does my day look like? And then also, you know, what am I doing and what am I trying to recover from? It's extremely important. And I wouldn't say that always equates to what's considered healthy eating. I mean, I eat a lot of vegetables. I eat a ton of fruit. Yes. I also eat bread, which some people would say is unhealthy. I mean, I eat a lot of vegetables. I eat a ton of fruit. Yes. I also eat bread, which some people would say is unhealthy. I mean, or like simple carbs. I eat a lot of simple carbs, that's for sure. We have a very different definition of what unhealthy eating is. Because you say you follow what you want. But if I followed what I want, I'd be eating chocolate chip cookies, ice cream, and donuts at every meal.

So I have to kind of fight that every day. I mean, so that's the thing with ultra running, though, is like you can. Like, to me, like, okay, I want to have chocolate chip cookies. I love chocolate chip cookies. They're so good. So, like, okay, I can have chocolate chip cookies. like I'll just pack a whole bag of those on my run and I'll eat them and then I won't want them ever again.

So it works out. Is it Claire Gallagher who will do like icing and stuff on her runs? Is that who I'm thinking of? Icing like putting ice on yourself? Like what? No, no, no, no. Like icing on a cake. Yeah.

Oh, I don't know. But that wouldn't, I mean, sure. That seems like it'd work. That sounds like something I would do. I mean, it's just like, it's, I, during Christmas is great because I do. I just pack the Christmas cookies. Like, I eat what I want. Like, granted, I just use it to fuel my runs.

And, yeah, I wouldn't say I eat, yeah, overly healthy. I wouldn't say poorly either. But yeah, definitely like, I eat ice cream. I love ice cream. I eat cookies. I also, yeah, eat a ton of fruit and vegetables and beans and rice. Yeah. I think, like, it sounds like we're kind of similar on that you're,

like considering the high quality fuel. Like what do I need to fuel and like a certain percentage of what you're putting in your mouth is fuel and then some of it is eating or like enjoyment. But you are motivated by doing well with the sport and what does that look like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Okay. The two more questions. One is how often do you change out shoes? And this is a little open-ended, but I want to know in training. And are you ever switching out? shoes in a race. Yeah. Okay.

So that's a really good question. So I do change out shoes fairly frequently. I do that by mileage. I change out training shoes about every 300 to 350 miles, which is a lot of shoes. Unfortunately. Then, yeah, it comes out to a lot of shoes. So usually just pick up a couple pairs. Shoe sponsors hit Elise up.

She will be very happy to answer your email. Yeah. Yeah. So that does get spendy, but it's 100% worth it to, because it seems like immediately after I hit, like, say, a 400 mile mark or something, I start getting foot pain. And it's like, oh, it registers in my mind like, oh, are my shoes old? Like, it's become that. Like, it's like, oh, yeah, they are old.

Like, just change shoes. So to me, it's like, yeah, 3.350. And then in the race, it really depends on the condition. So at Western States, I did change shoes. So I ran the first 30 miles in what's like the effective infinite, I want to say, maybe. Basically, they're like a more rugged version. They have the lugs are deeper. So I use those because I figured that would be better for the snowy conditions.

And they also have a plastic plate. And then in the second 70 miles, I changed over to their carbon-plated trail shoe, which is like the pro. And I ran the rest of the time in those. And does those both have like a rocker in them? Don't the North Face shoes have like an interesting kind of like shape to them? It's not quite a, well, I don't know. They're not really a rocker, but it's definitely a plated shoe. So I'm sure it's formed in some way to make it propulsion-ish as much as you can on the trail shoe.

and still be stable. So, yes, I did. It was mainly driven by the lugs and the conditions of the trail in the first 30 miles. I also knew that at like mile 25, I was going to have to go and wait through the stream that was like way steep, and I would want a shoe change after that. Do you don't have to, like, go up a half size or anything because, like, your feet swell? I feel like I've heard people say that. Yeah, some people have to do that.

I'd say actually I just do that for every day. now. I did go, I changed sizes about maybe a year ago and stopped having a lot of the blisters I was having. So I think honestly, like my shoes, probably most people would say like, oh, they're kind of too big for you. But I don't get bolsters. So that's great. Yeah. And then last question here. And this is something I'm always curious about in races for people. At what mile did the suffering start? Yeah. I guess it depends on what kind of suffering. I would, yeah, see, that's tough. Like, I would say that, like, body suffering did start at, like, mile 25, like, because

I was just in pain. But then I'd say mentally suffering didn't start until, like, mile 75, to be honest, when I was, like, it was dark. I was sick, like, and in pain. Then it was, like, now I'm mentally suffering. And, like, the physically suffering, like, I was prepared to physically hurt. I knew that was going to happen at some point. I was an expecting mile 25 as I was hoping much later than that.

But yeah, so different points depending on like what type of suffering you're talking about. Yeah, that's interesting. Eric, what do you think for you in a 70.3? Like, do you get through the swim pretty unscathed mentally? Is it at some point in the bike that you're like, oh, God, what am I doing? This is so hard. How am I going to get through this? Yeah, most swims, I don't, like it's uncomfortable and you're breathing really hard,

but it's, I'm not like, oh man, this is, I'm on the edge of losing this or anything. You know, I'm usually fairly on the comfortable side in the group, but it's usually in the first 30 miles of the bike now with 70.3s where gaps open and the strongest cyclists make moves, and it's just full, full gas as they're like trying to establish positions. So usually in the first 10 miles, it's like, if we have to go to this pace the entire race,

I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do this for another five miles, you know, and then ideally you make it through that to where it settles a little bit and things calm down until it all starts over again with a run. It is something I like about triathlon that, you know, when I'm on the swim, I'm like, just get through the swim and get onto the bike. And then when I'm on the bike, I'm like, it's okay, just get to the turnaround on the bike and then get to the run. Just worry about the run when it gets here.

Whereas an ultra, it's like, nope, it's just you and the night. No, no, no. There must be like hills or course points or something to help break it up. It's totally the aid stations. That's the thing. It's like, you know the aid stations. And the aid stations are just like the greatest place on earth. It's like you don't understand like triathlon like forget triathlon aid stations.

That's stupid. Like ultra running aid stations are like 100% where it's at. First of all, these volunteers like know what they're doing. First of all, I mean, professional volunteers that usually are not paid. But they're like amazing. Professional volunteers is what she just said. They are professional. And they are like so excited to see you.

And like they want you to finish more than you want to finish most of the time. and just are like 100% dialed into like, what can I get you? Oh yeah, just give me your bottle. Like, no problem. Like, I'll run it down to the water filler. Like, I'll run it back to you. I'll be back. Like, you just get something from the aid station table.

And they're like, what can I make you? Can I make you a cassidia? I'm like, no, but thank you. Like, wonderful. Yeah, like, it's just like 100% dialed into like, it is. It's like, and it's like the greatest place, like physically, mentally, like, sure, there's like, yeah, buffet of options, like anything you could. ever want to eat is there. But then also just like the greatest mental uplift because half the time

they're like playing music and people are cheering for you and that's like where all the fans are and maybe the fans are just like the volunteers. I'm not really sure. But people are cheering for you. And so it just feels like a great thing. It's like do I want to leave? But like I don't really want to leave. But also they're like cheering me on so I have to leave. And so oh man. Just like like six parties. Yeah, it is. It totally is. 100%. Like. If you are thinking about doing an ultra, just go and volunteer at an aid station. They'll train you up and then you'll be hooked. I'm so convinced that this podcast is going to get so many people to sign up to do an ultra.

I bet you anything. We're going to hear about this in a year. Like messages like, guys, I heard that episode with a lease on it and it changed the way I felt about doing ultras. For the aid stations alone, just like even if just in your mind be like run aid station to aid station. And that's all you have to do because like. I like that. That does sound manageable. Yeah.

And then they just refill your battery, like mentally, physically, and just run to the next one. Easy. Oh, there you go. And all of a sudden, you've done 100 miles. Yep. All of the sudden. I don't know how sudden it really feels, 28 hours later. Elise, thank you so much for doing this with us.

This was so exciting. I hate what you have done to my brain. Played in a seed. We just went inception. Exactly. Oh, seriously. But how can people find you? Is Instagram a good place to kind of follow your journey? Yeah, I think Instagram's probably the best. I don't post a ton. It's kind of eclectic, I would say.

But yeah, Instagram's the best spot. And what's your Instagram handle? It's just my name, Elise Lagerstrom. Elise Loggerstrom. It wasn't taken. That's good. What about Strava? You put everything on Strava, too, right? Oh, yeah, I do. I do. And sometimes some pictures. Yeah, pictures usually go on Strava, too, by somewhere pretty, which is a lot. So there we go. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. And what do you? have anything planned for the future coming up? At this point, no. I wanted to really focus my efforts

on Western states and not have anything. But what I do want to do, I do have some, like, FKT attempts that I want to try. So whether or not I get the FKT, I'm not really sure, but there's definitely some, like, trails that I want to run that I'm pretty excited about. What's in FKT? The fastest known time. So it's kind of like a Strava segment, but for like known trails. longer stuff. Usually longer. Yeah. If you need pace or like support or if that's allowed or expectation, I'm all into that.

Yeah, you can totally do team up and do like a supported effort. So yeah, thinking like Timberline Trail is kind of on my bucket list. And then also Timberline down to Bridge of the Gogs in Oregon. Ooh. So Timberline goes all the way around Mount Hood, right? Yep. Yep. Yep.

Wait, what? That's epic. Oh, my God. the way around really? Yeah. Yeah. Like pretty high up. It's not like literally at zero.

But there's a Mount Fuji Ultra too that goes around that. I was just running with the North Face athlete in Telleride and he said he had just done this race running around the base of Mount Fuji. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Elise. You have been awesome. I hope our listeners like this.

I was so interested about this. So I imagine a lot of listeners are too. But next week we'll be back to our. normal format here with Paula on, but at least can't thank you enough. Oh, no. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, that's been awesome. Yeah, it's been fun. Our pleasure.

Awesome. Thanks, everyone. Later. Bye.