That Triathlon Life Podcast - Unbound XL, renting a triathlon bike, open water panic attacks, and more!

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

This week we kicked things off with Eric's experience crewing for Heather Jackson at Unbound XL, 350 miles of gravel, mud, and racing through the night. Josh Amberger also made a stunning gravel debut with a fourth-place finish, and we had some thoughts on that. Then we went through listener questions. We also talked the Escape from Alcatraz donut run, compression shorts, and the best perks of being a pro athlete (or pro athlete adjacent). This week we discussed:Eric supporting Heather Jackson at Unbound XL and Josh Amberger's surprise fourth-place finishWhat it's like when podcast listeners know more about you than you know about themPanicking in an open water swim and how to recover your composure mid-raceOff-road triathlon etiquette, do you have to stop and let faster riders pass?Racing a tri bike you've never ridden before: smart gamble or bad idea?Mile repeats vs. kilometer repeats, does interval length actually matter?Sodium and cramping: preloading, in-race electrolytesWearing compression shorts under your bibsWill 32-inch wheels ever make it into triathlon?Favorite perks of being a professional (or pro-adjacent) triathleteA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric LaGerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldston. You have stumbled across or returned to our triathlon podcast. We do love triathlon. We also love all swimming, all biking, all running. We're going to talk a little bit about my experience,

supporting our good friend, Heather Jackson, at the Unbound XL, which is gravel cycling, if you do not know. But then we're going to do what we normally do, get into questions, which is how we keep this show rolling. So questions about triathlon and sometimes relationships. We've been doing relationships lately, which is insane. I am a professional athlete. Paula is a professional athlete.

Nick is not a professional athlete. He's just, he loves sports so much. And he brings a cool perspective to this podcast. What was that hand signal, Nick? Welcome. That was meant for your eyes only, Paula. Yeah, if this was video, we'd be blurring that out. Unless you pay the right amount of money, then you can see the video.

TTR after dark. Eric, are you about to, race unbound XL next year with 32 inch wheels what's the deal? Wow I don't even know if we want to open the whole can

of 32 inch wheel thing but I guess that's what it takes I have been intrigued I do think if I were to gravel race it would have to be pretty extreme long sort of a thing because what I personally love

about gravel cycling and is a little bit of that like stoic alone experience versus if you watch the XL the non-Xcel the regular Unbound 200 and all the Lifetime series. It's like a freaking bike race on dirt with dust or mud or whatever.

You're around with like 300 other people. I kind of like just going out and being in the woods by myself. Is this the kind of race do you think that Paula could actually do well at? Like how technical is it? How. Oh, come on, Nick. Is that a yes or a no? I can't tell.

That's a you're diminishing my abilities. Wait, why? Is this a race that Paula? You didn't let him finish, but... Okay, go ahead. I don't really see how I'm diminishing your abilities. I'm more saying that you are a very, very strong rider that would benefit from a race that is not super technical.

Okay. So like many triathletes, like the bulk of triathletes, and anecdotally, like the bulk of the cyclists that I saw there, I think there are a lot of people that are coming over from road cycling, and this is an event that is not that tech. technical. Except for the mud. Yes, the mud was the only word that I can think of is heinous.

It was just absolutely disgusting amount of mud and flooding this year, which is really how this name gets its original namesake, which was Dirty Kansas. It's now been switched to unbound, but people talk about this race because of the potential for mud and just complete chaos, having to run your bike. But yeah, I know. I actually, that did occur to me while I was riding around there. I do think Paula would be very good at it. And like,

pack dynamics are a whole thing and I, and whatever. But in terms of like the elevation and the strengths required to do gravel racing, yes, I think she would be great. The thing that scares me about gravel racing is like drafting in a pack when you don't really know what's ahead of you. Same.

That's scary on gravel. When you're going really fast. Going freaking 45K an hour in a dust cloud when you can't see anything at all. This is why I'm not super interested in like what gravel racing looks like right now outside of these extra long sort of events. Eric, did you see that photo of Lachlan

wiping out? He's like mid-air. In just the most disgusting, chunky rock section. No, thanks. But it's a great photo. Great photo. So the reason that I was there is I was there to help Sean

Watkins, Sean Waddy Watkins document Heather, our good friend Heather Jackson. She was doing the Excel. This is off the back of three weeks ago, her doing the Coca-Dona, 250, which is running, and now she's trying to do the unbound Excel, which is 350 miles of gravel slash mud, slash ride through the night with headlamps, the whole thing. Also of note, which we can get to in a bit, Josh Amberger, ex-professional triathlete now retired from that, but doing some gravel, raced, had an insane debut getting fourth place.

Yeah, that's amazing. So, so is this kind of the equivalent of when you did Black Canyons and got second? Yeah, for sure. Like, it feels like that, right? People are like, oh my God, who's this guy who's not even supposed to be good at this, who's now got fourth? For sure. Yeah.

It's freaking epic. It's incredible because this was not like a soft field of the XL by any means. This is getting more and more traction each year. Last year I had 120 athletes. This year had like 300 athletes. It's this sort of gravel racing with the endurance through the night. It's going to be the next. It's freaking awesome.

The girl that came second, Maddie Nut, who's very likable based on her interviews and stuff, she was saying in one of her interviews that she was debating whether to do the 200 or the 350 mile. after winning the 560 kilometer at the Traca, so really good at the long stuff. But she was like... I think it was 560K. I would actually rather... Because the 350 mile starts at 3 p.m.,

goes through the night and finishes the next day, midday. But the 200 starts at like 6 or 7 in the morning. So she has said it actually sounded way better to sleep in, have breakfast, start at 3, late rollout, racing the night. Instead of waking up at 3 a.m., slamming your breakfast. breakfast. I kind of agree with her. Got a point there.

I kind of agree with her because waking up, as we all know, for triathons that start at 6.30 in the morning is the worst. The worst part of it. Yeah. So if you could start later, but like do the activity that's way longer at, I get the appeal. Moment of appreciation for excellent race recaps. Go see

any video you can of Maddie Nut talking post race. Hilarious. Also, Taylor Finney. A plus recap. Really? Yeah, they're all really funny. Super fun. Yeah. But yeah, we should move on to triathlon things.

I guess just real quick, I can say Heather, she did not finish, but I had a great time with Wadi and with Josh and his partner, wife, actually gentle being out there and everything. And it was, I am intrigued. It's really cool. It's like the cone of gravel in the U.S. There's 4,000 athletes. It is the biggest gravel race in the world. It's pretty insane.

off the hook, specialized, dropped, announced their crux five. So much hype, so much excitement. It was, it was a vibe.

I was into it. And I, like, as someone who feels, like, I feel emotionally tied to triathlon, and so when a triathlet goes and does another sport,

I want, like, a good, uh, representative to go out and do that, you know? And I feel like, Heather we know is great, but Josh is also awesome.

He's like one of the coolest triathletes. So for him to go do this other thing is, And do well. It's like, oh, thank you. It's not like he never rides gravel. Like he's one of these triathletes kind of rare,

like Eric, who does a lot of riding like that, even when he was training for triathlon on the road, really likes long, epic adventures and lives in Australia. So, I don't know. It's not a surprise to me that he's really good at it.

Plus a lifetime of aerobic training. Yeah, yeah, of course. He's the perfect, like, archetype where he is, he has a good sense of humor.

He can, like, brush things off really easily. He has very good. good at time trialing. Like you have to have like a couple of, I don't know, you can't be too anal for this. Like you really have to roll with the punches. Like they walked their bikes for five hours through the night in the mud. And if you just get bound out of shape over that, you're not going to make it.

So resilience, sense of fun, et cetera. Stoke for that guy. And they are now in Ben for the next three weeks. So we're going to get to do some riding with them, which we're so psyched about. That's awesome. That's awesome. Sweet. Okay.

Well, let's move on here. Eric, awesome job. Thank you. And you had a great time, too. You've said it like 10 times to us off the podcast, but it was a, you were stoked about the whole thing. I had a blast. We just started getting going on it, but I was doing some extra advanced Instagram stories on Heather's Instagram where I was like dropping in the weather and like overlaying some footage that I shot. And it was like really, it was really fun to try to document this real time. And then also they're going to make, you know, a video out of it, of course. Yeah. Very fun. Love it. Yeah. So are we going to get into podcast? questions right now? We're going to do a little something fun here because I saw someone do this and I could not believe at how bad the average person is at doing this. So I'm curious to see

how good we are going to be at doing this. Now, question. Is it cursive? Is it cursive? It's not cursive. Although we could do that as well. Well, let's do that another time. I would nail it. I have no problem with cursive. I'm just going to hot teaser so that we don't forget, we had a major extremely exciting breakthrough with Harper today. For all of these, all of those of you who are invested in the Harper story, stay tuned. We're just going to work that in somewhere random. Yeah, let's not forget that. Okay, so what I notice is that most people cannot draw a bicycle.

They do not know where the parts go. and I challenge us to, on our little whiteboards here, which we all have, to from memory draw a bicycle. And it's just like the profile, you know. And Eric doesn't have a marker. I need a scribble device. What color do you want? Surprise me. Oh, flying markers.

And it fell into a camera bag. We'd like to thank Leslie for these, by the way, these markers. The Expo Markers. Leslie, the very committed diehard podcast. Do you want us to draw bikes with 32 inch wheels or? Any wheel size will do. 32 or 700 C. No 650 Bs.

Okay. So yeah, that's it. Let's say three, two, one go here. Okay. Wait, Paula, why are you looking? What are you looking up at, Paula? Nothing. You freaking cheater.

Oh my God. Wait, is she looking at Eric? Nothing. This is from memory. Oh, I know. She's looking up. You're glancing up at a bicycle. There's a shreds, a bed poster in our room.

What a cheater. I'm not a cheater. I'm not even looking at that. Wait, is this a supporter segment? No. What we're going to do, this is going to be going to show the people this. We're going to send it in a photo with the supporter segment. Okay.

I'm drawing a tarmac, I'd say. Oh, yeah, you're giving it arrow tubing. I'm doing dropped seat stays. You know? Okay. It is really hard to draw. I freaking. nailed it.

Yeah, let's see. Well, the thing is it's hard when you only have an X-1 marker in one color to like draw, you know, the draw bars and make it three-dimensional and all that. Yeah. I'm not drawing spokes. We should put the music that goes, da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-ha-na-na-ha-ha-a-na-ha. Yeah, the Jeopardy music. Okay. I'm pretty in tune.

That's pretty good, Paula. You ready for the reveal? Three, two, one. Oh, Nick, yours is good. Yours is the best. I don't know. I think Eric's might be the best. I think Eric's might be the best.

But Paula, what's going on with your head tube angle? Paula has a very aggressive head tube angle. It's like 45 degrees. Oh, yeah. Good job, guys. Good job. I challenge all of you listeners to do this. It's not easy.

Wait, Eric, can I see yours again? What did you do with the seat stays? You did? Yeah, you did the old style. Yeah, that's good stuff. I'll draw two diamonds, man. What's a diamond with a... Paul is ready to rock on that front fork. Okay, fuck you guys.

Very nice. Okay, so if you're a podcast supporter, which, first of all, thank you so much for being a podcast supporter, you're going to get the images of ours in your inbox. So, Eric and Paula, can you do a little photo of yours? so we each get it and maybe put your name

put your name in cursive on top of it so we know who's is who by the here's my cursive name Nick are you 12 yeah I learned how to draw in cursive when I was a baby boy I was also learning English at the time so if you're a podcast reporter

you're going to get photos of our beautiful bicycles and high value high value a high values Yeah, if you're a podcast supporter, you're going to get images of those images of those. And we'd love to get, I'd say we, if you want to send me your blind bicycle drawings, and by blind, you can have your eyes open, but you cannot reference a bicycle when you're drawing it. And then also, we're going to have a supporter segment in the podcast where we're going to

read the question aloud to everyone, but we're going to answer it only for podcast supporters. And podcast supporters are also going to get a video component of that. they can see our beautiful question mark faces answering the question. Yeah, I put on a shirt specifically for this. So you're welcome or you're not welcome depending on what you're into. Okay, real quick, before the questions start, which we need to start, because it's almost in our time. So Harper has not been an angel. Opposite of angel.

I thought she was an angel. All I've heard from you is how much of an angel she is. Well, she has no other choice and she's at home. In the house, an angel, sweet. affectionate, but when we're out off leash, she does not come when she's called. And she sniffs until she's done sniffing. And there's multiple times now where I'm just like standing at the car, waiting for her to decide that she's done with her walk. And Flynn is perfect. Like, call him, he comes. He's such a good dog and we've taken that for granted. But we've also worked really

hard to train him to be good like that. So I was kind of at the end of my wits with Harper when Eric was gone, because I was walking them alone two or three times a day. And on leash, is not an option. Like these dogs are so bad at walking on a leash, it's going to give me an injury, so I have to take them off leash. And I was like, that's it. I'm putting a e-caller on her. It's a good chance she's probably trained with an e-caller since she was a hunting dog. So we actually have one that we bought six years ago when Flynn was a puppy, never used it, never trained him with it because we didn't really need to. Put the thing on Harper and immediately, she was like, you have my attention.

Wow, didn't even have to use it? No, she knew exactly what it was. She's like, I remember this thing. Yep, I will listen. It was freaking insane. And so we took her to the off leash with it. We never zapped her. We just used the vibration and the beep.

And every time we did Harper vibration immediately came straight to us. While like sniffing with a dog, we waited until it was necessary and it was a situation where she would never come back normally. Perfect manners. Right back. Immediately.

Yeah. And even I took them on the second walk we did. It was like an hour at Shevlin Park. They were having a blast, but she had the collar on. And like Flynn and Harper get into these like rocks together and sniff out little things. And you can't break their concentration. It's outrageous. But I did Harper.

Harper Buzz. The fireworks just went off behind Paula. Harper Buzz. And she came to me. while Flynn was still sniffing. It was just crazy. Wow. So someone before you guys really like...

Well, her previous owner hunted with her collar for sure. And there's like, I would... I'm going to guess that every single dog that hunts has a collar. Yeah. Yeah. It's trained with an e-collar. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's kind of insane how it's transformed her. So now she's back to being perfect. Wow. Okay. Okay. Good. Good. I'm happy for you.

Seriously. I mean, we were kind of going, This is not going to work. We can't spend an extra 20 minutes on every walk waiting for her to come back or be done because she is just doing her own thing. Right. What are we going to freaking do? Great. Solved.

Wow. Well, I'm happy for you guys. Yeah, I was also right. It might take like, oh, now I'm working. You know, this is not fun anymore. But no, she's still and has such a blast. Yeah. Sprinting around.

But then, like, when it's call time, it's call time. Great. Okay. Well, let's get to questions here. If you're listening to this, that means you can submit a question. You can submit the question at Thattriathlonlife.com slash podcast. We did just have a little pre-order of some really sick new multi-sport, TTL Multisport jerseys.

But those are done now. And so you will be seeing them in the wild. Love them. I'm wearing the hat right now. They were super popular. They were super popular. Tons of orders. They were freaking awesome.

If you want to become a podcast supporter, you can become a podcast supporter in the same place. You're going to get a video of us answering one of these questions and our bicycle drawings and our unending love and appreciation for supporting the podcast. This week we are also going to give a TTL swim cap away. They're a high quality swim cap to Sarah Sorbel. You're going to get that. Sarah, we don't have your address on the website. So let me know where you want me to send the swim cap and we'll get it sent out to you. First question here is it's kind of a twofer.

There were two questions that somewhat addressed the same topic, so I thought we could kind of read them back to back and see if we can't find some common ground between the two of them. The first one is, they're both kind of short. First one is from David in Surrey, BC. I'm doing something next week and riding in my first Grand Fondo. I need some help. What are the rules?

I don't want to care too much, but I also want to look cool. Well, I look like a dork if I wear my teen TTF. try suit or do I need to stick with a jersey and bibs? What about socks? And where do the sunnies go? Side question, which one of you is the coolest other than Eric, of course? Oh, God. I don't love that.

We got that out of the way. And then the second question is from Miley. Hi, TTL, thanks for everything you do for the multi-sport community. This is Miley from Boston. I'm curious how often you train in your race kit compared to the individual sports-specific gear, such as try shorts on a long ride instead of bike shorts. Does this change between short and long distance races? Thanks so much, Miley.

So you see the commonality here, the trisuit. Fashion. Wearing a trisuit for a grandfondo or wearing a trisuit in training or sports specific gear in training, what do we think? Now, of course, you can do anything, but it's more, I guess, it's like Eric and Paula. What is your opinion on this? Okay, yeah, I think that's very important.

to say that we're not saying if what we say that we don't do is not saying that's super uncool and you shouldn't do that and don't send us a whole bunch of emails about how you are mad like this is just what we do okay now that we got that out of the way we don't train our tri-kits

ever and we would not wear them to a grand fondo definitely try to blend you can wear your team TTL cycling outfit you would look you would look even cooler potentially if you were in your new multi-sport energy supply kit,

that would really blend. But we love TTL representation. So feel free to do whatever you want, probably do the cycling kit. And then you got pockets. You got all the things for all the snacks and all that stuff. Try to be a cyclist. On the cyclist's way.

No, I don't think that cyclists would even really notice if it was a tri-kit because it looks a little bit like a jersey and bibs if it's separate colors on the top and bottom. This is true. It could look like a speed suit. I think it could look like a speed suit. Yeah, like a lot of people race. Like when Paige on well,

Was it Heather's house for a training camp? She showed us her race kit, and it looked exactly like a triathlon kit. It is. Yeah, they are wearing speed suits more and more. I guess, is there, how competitive is this Fondo? It doesn't matter. I don't think anyone's going to say anything. No, it doesn't matter. And I would say the other reason we don't train in our tri-kits all the time, like the Norwegians do.

And I don't think it's a bad idea to get really comfortable in it. But they just aren't meant to last. like washing and washing and washing. I only wear mine for like three races or so before they get maybe a bit discolored and a bit more baggy. So they're really like a specialized thing that is not meant to be reused.

But you say comfort, but I'm never uncomfortable in mine. Like that's never an issue for me personally. Maybe that's just me, but... I'm not either. And I definitely vote don't ever train in your tri-kit personally. So do I.

But I'm just saying like... Unless you need to try it out. Yeah. I do it. I try a new one out like once before I actually use it in a race. Yeah. My problem is like a grand fondo is like, okay, let's say you are passing your tri kit off as a speed suit, as a cycling speed suit. Okay, but you're still then wearing a speed suit and a grandfondo, which is probably not like the vibe is not racy.

Some grandfondos have like placing, but a lot of them don't even have. no leaderboard. There's no place. Is the problem that he doesn't want to spend money on a new kit? I think it's just how to be cool. Like what's cool? Okay, yeah, just weigh your training kit then. Yeah, I think so.

I think so. And then for as far as Miley's question, Eric, you kind of answer this, answering David's question, which is wear the sports specific stuff for the sports that you're doing. Yeah. The goal is to never look like a triathlete. That's what you want, other than on race day. I mean, we think triathlon's cool, obviously, but if you want to, like, have the cyclists think you're cool,

then you got to, like, just do what they're doing. And what about socks? What about socks? Definitely wear socks, always. Always wear tall socks. Like, if we do a transition run, generally, like, we'll just run out in our bibs. And this is if we're doing, like, a 15-minute thing.

I'll never. If it's more than... I'll never. If it's a more than a 15-minute thing, quick change into running shorts. Always that for me. I'm the same as Eric. If it's 15 minutes or less, I will just wear my cycling bibs. But it is, yeah, that's a compromise.

You look like the guy who's going out doing a little try hard. I don't even about looks. It's about how it feels. It also doesn't feel great. That's the main reason for the 15-minute barrier. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go.

Does a little two for there. Who's the coolest? Wait a sec. Who's the coolest? Oh, God. Between Paula and me, I don't, I don't like, I don't like where this is going. It's like when we ask who's the funniest. I don't like where this is going either.

It depends on your definition of cool, a little bit. No one's going to pick me for the coolest, all right? I'm, uh, you know, there's like chelant and nonchalant. I'm pretty shalant. I'm heavy on the chalant. You take your cycling a barrel pretty seriously. I mean, being in L.A., the fashion show of cycling. Yeah, yeah.

I'd say you're cool, neck. I do. Yeah, I do. It's not really, a really fair question. It wasn't even a question. It was a statement. They said that I'm the coolest. The end.

There was no question. Eric is the coolest. Eric is the coolest. And everyone else is a loser. Okay, we're moving on here to Phil's question. Hey guys, new listener here and new to triathlon. I'm making my way through the podcast library. I just raced my first local sprint distance try this past Sunday and had a question about not freaking out in open water.

I'm a fairly good swimmer in the pool. 145 per 100 meters but have very little experience or opportunity to swim in open water due to work life schedule, working, a blue collar job and trying to still have a social life while training. The water temperature on race day was around 63

degrees Fahrenheit, which is 17 Celsius, for those in Celsius. Living in New England, I'm pretty comfortable in colder water, so I don't believe that had anything to do in my meltdown, but honestly, I have no freaking clue. I got kicked in the face about 300 meters into the swim,

swallowed a bunch of water, which caused a total panic and wasn't able to get my composure to get rid of the choking sensation in my throat. I tried floating on my back in my wetsuit for what felt like an eternity, but was probably about only a minute or so. I ended up just swimming side-stroke to keep my head out of the water the rest of the way just to get through it. So frustrating. Do you guys have any tips or tricks or thoughts I can think about in the water

if this happened again in the future? Do I simply need more open water exposure? please help. Thanks, Phil. I don't want to like, you know, in any way through this question to be a little what you experience at all. So just, you know, precursor there. But I think focusing, for me, focusing on my stroke, focusing on the things we always talk about, like siding properly, the number of strokes you're taking before you cite, like your tempo, your feel for the water, focusing on doing what you need to do, like your brain can only focus.

on so many things at once, and the more that you can, I think, get back into focusing on what you can do, catching water properly, the cues that you've worked on in the pool and stuff, that's what I would do. Oh, wait, are you kind of, are you saying, like, while this panic is,

kind of like if your foot hurts, you know, hold your hand over a fire, and then all of a sudden your foot hurts less. Yeah, like when I run, I have little cues. Like when I run, for example, of like keeping my arm, my shoulders loose, and my arm carriage small and like being bouncy and stuff. And if I've just,

I'm just thinking back to when I fell and broke my elbow, like that's what I was thinking. I was like just trying to like focus on the cues that I always think about when I'm running to like give my brain something to work on purposefully instead of just like, instead of just thinking about the elbow. So that's the best I can come up with.

I was going to say roll over on your back, take some deep breaths, try to calm yourself down. But you did that obvious. obviously. So without like getting a sports psychologist in on it, the thing that I always do is like revert to these process focused goals or or thoughts. Another thing you could try in training is go to the pool with like two other friends. And if you have a lane to yourself, practice doing fast 25s, three abreast. Because then you're just getting a little bit of that feeling of swimming really close to someone and you're going to hit each other a bit and it's going to feel really choppy and it won't be very comfortable. But it at least gives you a little bit of that feeling of starting a race when you're making contact with people.

it's so different than swimming in a pool by yourself. Yeah, and same thing. Try not to focus on that person next to you. Focus on the things you normally focus on for a good stroke and try to like remain inside yourself as much as you can. And then try to like whack them a little bit. Also kick them, yeah. Pull them down if you can't dunk them a little bit.

Yeah, just a little dunk. What I was going to suggest and maybe the, I don't know if this is a very non high performance suggestion is when you were laying on your back, I wonder, were you still in the middle of the craziness? Like, I almost think, like, get out of the stream of swimmers just like by 10 feet or something and then lie on your back and just take whatever 30 seconds or a minute of just like, I'm not in the race right now.

I need to not panic. And that's all that matters. I'm in my buoyant wet suit. There's nothing that can hurt me out here. I just need to reset and then I can start swimming again. Sure. Yeah. No, for sure, do that out of the chaos if you can.

I would still go with the like, don't think about not panicking. Think about breathing. Right. Right. I see. Yeah, nothing harder to do but panic when you want to not panic. You're fine.

Don't think about not being fine. Yeah. No. Just think about breathing. Right. Okay. Next question here is from feeling fine. God, how did I fall into that one?

It's because feeling they're both spelled with a pH. Oh, God. Feeling fine. You got me. Okay. Hi, T.T.L. I did my first off-road triathlon this year at White water after taking about a decade off from training and losing 40 pounds. I'm only 5'4, so you can

imagine how I was feeling. Wow, it was great to feel like myself again. As a former D1 college swimmer, I was leading out of the water, but my mountain bike skills are still a work in progress. The race was in early spring, and a lot of our local trails were muddy and closed in the weeks leading up to it. So I only got a handful of real rides in before race day. Because I'm self-aware, I pulled over to let faster riders pass when they came up behind me. But it definitely cost me time. I still placed third in the women's field, which I'm pretty proud of, but my next off-road is Xera Sleeping Giants, and I want to do better.

I'll have more trail experience by the end and will be stronger on the bike, but what's the correct etiquette here for age group racing? I don't want to impede anyone's race, but I also know I have the right to hold my line. Do I just maintain my pace and wait for a wider section of the trail to let people by? Stopping completely really felt like it hurt my race. Feeling. So it's funny because in on-road triathlon, we don't really have to deal with this. If someone comes by you, yes, you kind of have to let them buy you,

and there's those 40 seconds. But in off-road triathlon, it seems like you do, there is some kind of etiquette here. And Eric, you're the only one of us who's raced exterra. So what do you think? You do not have to stop. That's for sure. It is nice to as soon as is possible on the trail To move as far to one side as possible

Let the person know behind you Up here, I'm gonna move over to the right and go by And you like soft pedal for a second But do you don't not need to unclip or stop at all This is completely fair and reasonable Wow, that's nice And in the pro race Absolutely nobody is like letting you go by

Unless they feel like it's advantageous to them And they're gonna get to sit on your wheel etc. Otherwise, it's just, it's up to you to find a racing line to get by. And it's nice of them if they do what I just said, wait for a wide spot on the trail and kind of like move over to one side so you have the opportunity. But it's not your job to like stop.

And also she got third. So presumably, I mean, it's not pro, but it's like this is the front of the amateur race. So it kind of feels like similar kind of thing. Yeah, fully. You're competitive. And you did, you put in the work on your swim to be in front of them out of the water.

So it's like you don't have to just give that up. Yeah, cool. Great. Next one here is from Cooper. Hello, Paula Eric. Nick, what are your thoughts on racing on a bike you've never ridden before? This year I have the goal of qualifying for 70.3 World Championships at Santa Cruz, 70.3 in September. That's a tough one.

Eric's won that one before. I did this race last year and most likely have to drop about 15 minutes on my total time. I've only ever ridden older hand-me-down road bikes. As a poor college student, I can't afford to buy a nicer bike right now. An option I'm considering is renting a nice tri-bike just for race day. Do you think this is a bad idea? I'm thinking about buying clip-on arrow bars for my road bike to practice being an arrow and hoping that makes me comfortable enough on the tri-bike.

Curious about your thoughts on this, thank you. Cooper from Walnut Creek, California. It's definitely possible. I think it's always going to be faster. My worry with it is like how competent are you at cycling in general? because the feeling of being on a TT bike going really fast when it's potentially windy is kind of scary, in my opinion, in my experience. So if you're going to rent a TT bike and then be so uncomfortable that you're going to end up sitting up on the base bar for most of the race, then you might as well to try your road bike. But if you can get to a point where you can do a few rides on it and actually ride Arrow for the whole time and it's not too aggressive a position, then.

why not go for it? I don't know. Maybe that's bad advice. I think in a perfect world you would rent this bike one week before the race for your, or two weeks,

whatever, for a workout, like a long brick sort of a thing if money allows so you can at least have one day on it. It's going to be way too expensive. It's probably like $100 a day. Okay, I don't know. Renting an e-bike is like $60 or something.

So I was just guessing. That would be plan one. But then if this can like give you any sort of I guess that, Okay, back up one second. If you're going to do this in general, really do a good job of measuring your current bike that you're on. You want to try to get that position as close as possible on the new bike. So at least your hamstrings are working in the same range and et cetera.

Yeah, I just get scared. I mean, what Paul is saying is valid, but I think you can kind of take the corners a little easier if you're unfamiliar with this bike. And Santa Cruz, other than that beginning part, which then you come back through at the end as well, it's just straight on PCH and their rollers up and down there's not too much technical even that to twisty part

you have to really be hammering for it to be right because it's still flat it's not like a descent so my concern is more your musculature like you guys are alluding to as well not being used to pushing

for three hours on that and I think if you don't have the chance to do what Eric suggested which is to ride the bike for like a week before the race and have a few rides on it to get your body and brain used to it, to me, it feels like a road bike with clipons

might be better for most amateurs. Kind of depends how aggressively you can ride your road bike and if you can actually ride with clipons or not. Yeah, I agree, Nick, I agree. The TT bike will be faster, but yeah, Nick, at what cost? At what cost. If you can't even stand up afterwards. Right, then you can't run at all.

I don't know. It depends on the person. Some people can probably do it just fine. I mean, back when I Raced ITU-style World Trath on Draft on Draft Legal,

I would jump on the T-T bike for a lifetime series race or whatever and be fine with like two T-T bike rides but elite athlete

like pretty good at matching the bike fit, et cetera. So I don't know. I'm kind of with you, Nick. And you're an elite, you have elite flexibility

too. Let's not forget about that. Eric's unbelievably fun. I was going to say, I had grown up riding a T-T bike so it wasn't completely foreign. If you can touch your toes, like flat hands on the ground,

you probably are okay renting a T-C bike. Yeah, I cannot do that. That's the test. Yeah. Okay, next question here is from Jay. I have a training question. I just watched a YouTube

of a pro runner running mile repeats. It hit me that I, as a Canadian runner, have never in 20 years of running ever ran 1.6 kilometer repeats. I've run many one kilometer repeats, though. It's 7.30 p.m.

so the caffeine has worn off impacting my ability to do math, but I'm stuck on this now. Is there a point where the length and time of the interval doesn't matter? It's all just running. Or would a workout such as four times one mile be the training equivalent of a six times one K, even though the intervals themselves are longer? Maybe I should get some sleep instead of riding you,

but as E&P train in kilometers and I believe Nick trains in miles, I'm curious, your thoughts. Thanks, much love, Jay. What makes this interesting too is I think your TSS score would be the same. You know, if the distance and the intensity is the same. But is it the same to do six times one K versus four times one mile on the mind, on the body? I think it matters a little bit what the recovery in between is. If you're doing six by a K with one minute rest in between or four by a mile with two minutes rest in between, I don't know.

I don't know what's worse or what's better. I think I'd rather do the K's. My coach usually prescribes things in time, so not in distance. So sometimes I'll do three-minute repeats, sometimes I'll do six-minute repeats. And that's a little bit more, you know, for a three-minute repeat, you're running 800 meters. For a six-minute repeat, you're running almost a little over a mile. So that's kind of how I train. I don't think that it necessarily matters

if you're doing the same volume of work within a session. But it is an interesting way to kind of mix it up a bit. I have a hard time just like thinking in miles because I never do. Like I don't understand mile paces, whereas I do understand what a good kilometer time is. So even if I'm doing some kind of mile rep,

I still think of it in terms of like what were my minutes per K for that mile. You know what I mean? Yeah, you would do 1500s. No, not even that. Which is closer to a mile. Yeah, maybe. If that's what the coach decided was the thing to do, but.

Yeah, it's an interesting thing because, like, if you're just in Canada and you're a runner up there, you never, you never think about miles ever. And if you're just racing in Canada, too, what is a mile? It doesn't matter. It's just an arbitrary thing. Yeah. But it is a longer amount of effort. Yeah. That it's just like a seven minute versus a four or five minute effort.

They do feel like kind of like different systems a little bit. Totally. I agree with you. Like if you're doing a K, you can really rip it. Yeah. Even if you're doing a mile, you're like, okay, it's hunker down.

Yeah, yeah. This is almost twice as long. Yeah. But some people get into this flow state where running longer is better, you know? Yeah. You get to the end of the K and you're like, I actually still feel pretty good. I think I could do another 600 meters.

Rare, but possible. Yeah, but it's never going to be like, oh, I'm doing 10 by a K, but this person's just extra tough and they're doing 10 by a mile. Those are two completely different sessions. Yes, right. I think the total amount of time spent working

is kind of what a coach is going to work off of. Yeah, yeah. Okay, next question here is from Dana. Hi, Tripod, with the start list for Happy Valley Out and the first opportunity for my husband and me to finally meet Paula Eric and maybe Nick in person for the first time. Maybe Nick.

That is true. That is true. It got me wondering, is it ever weird for the people that you meet at races to know more about your life than you know about theirs? I was mentally preparing myself for what I would say when I saw you

and I realized that all the things I wanted to say are kind of personal, but public knowledge via the pod. Thanks for all you do for the tri-community, Dana. I love this question. I've thought about that. this lot. I'm curious what the two of you feel about this. No, and this is the basis of most interactions that we have at triathlons.

So we're very used to it. And it's not weird. But we will almost for sure ask you what, if you're racing and if you're excited and ask you, yeah, like we've just met you, even though you feel like you met us a long time ago. Yeah, that's normal for us now. I mean, I've had, like, it's not weird at all. The only time it is. It shouldn't be a reason for someone to come say hi. Yeah. The only time it's weird is if someone is, whatever, They just started watching TTL and they're two years behind and they bring up something that's like two years old. And like, is Flynn's paw okay? I literally had somebody come up and be like, is Flynn's paw okay?

Oh, right. You're a month behind on the videos. Yes, it's fine now. So just forgive us if it takes us a second. The thing I really like about it, and I don't know if you guys have ever sensed this is when you meet a random person anywhere, not a podcast listener. I met so many people at Unbound, by the way. There were so many TTL people. Really?

Over 20 people wearing TTL stuff or saying hey TTR and like listen to the podcast, etc. Tons. Wow. It was awesome. Racing or spectating? Yes, racing. Wow. Or, you know, whatever, participating.

Well, what I was thinking is when you meet someone that's not a podcast supporter, someone who's never met you guys, they are, I don't know if you've noticed this, but there's this kind of period when you're talking to someone, which is like you're kind of doing this thing, which is are we compatible friends, acquaintances, you know, just our sense of humor kind of line up. And I'm kind of putting forward this version of myself that's like this almost like this neutral accommodating version of a person.

And when I meet a podcast listener, maybe you guys too, I realize that I don't have to do that because they've already heard us interact for like 220, hours. They don't hate your guts. They don't hate your guts. Exactly.

Probably not. And even if they did, they're not going to come up and say hi, really, you know? So it's like you just get to be yourself and it's like you kind of skip ahead in the relationship. And I really love that. So it's like you come up to us that we're instantly best friends. Yeah, kind of. It's like, all right, well, we have this thing in comment.

Yes, you know a lot about me, but I also know something about you. The fact that you listened through the podcast. and then came up to me, it means something about you. So I also know a little bit about you, not details, but more of an abstract way. And will you marry me? This is like a big basis of the whole why we created TTL. It says this on our website so that when you see someone wearing a TTR thing, you know that you instantly have this connection. You feel the same way about the sport because that was the point.

That was the point. Yeah. Same thing. I think if you have an interaction with Nick at a race, it's going to be a little different than an interaction with me. I'm still red friendly. I'm different than Eric, too. Yeah. Each one of us has a different kind of thing.

Yeah. Nick will probably spend more time talking to you. I'm also the only non-professional athletes. So maybe I can afford to spend a little more time talking to people. Yeah, I think you're just a little more extroverted. But we all love it when people come say hi. We, it's part of, like, we don't get to. We're talking to each other on a screen right now.

It's hard to remember sometimes how many people listen to this. So it's kind of cool to go to an event in real life and realize that like, oh, actual humans do listen to us as we're just talking to each other on a screen every week. Yeah, agreed. For sure. Okay, next thing here is going to be our supporter segment. So Paula, you look like you're giving birth right now, so you're probably going to want to adjust that. Well, Eric reconfigured this room and the table is like at a weird angle.

Yeah. I feel like I'm your child being born right now is what it feels like the feet in the stirrups. Okay, this is the question. We're going to read the question out loud. So should I readjust my position? I think you should probably, well, it depends. It's whatever you want the kids to see. Okay, here we go. This is the question. It's from Maddie. ITTL pod, inspired by the Ironman distance, increasing questions from last week. What do you all do to get in enough sodium to not get cramps during a race?

Is it preloading the days before or drinking a lot of salty soup during the race or something else? I did my first trail marathon this spring and had to walk a couple miles due to muscle cramps. Thank you, Maddie. P.S. I have been writing in questions for a while, but maybe this one will spark some interest for y'all and actually get on the pod. Maddie, you made it, and it's even a supporter segment. So we're going to take this off. No, it's funny, though. A lot of the time, the people that send these are not supporters, so they don't get to hear the answer.

Oh, shoot. Dang. Like the guy that last time this happened and I just sent him a link. Yeah, yeah. We'll send you a link, Maddie. But also I want to share

what Christian Blumenfeld told me about this very topic. So we get some world champion, Eric with the eye roll, world champion, just his anecdotal experience with this. Okay, I'm interested in that. Let's go for it.

So here we are. We'll be back in a second if you're on the podcast. We are back. For all the podcast supporters who watch the podcast, thank you. And for everyone else, this is another incentive for you to become a podcast supporter. It mainly is a way to show your appreciation. But we do throw in these little goodies every once in a while.

This could be a good time to also say that I mentioned last week I'm racing escape from Alcatraz. Eric and Paula will not be there just to set the expectations. But I will be there and we're going to do a little donut run on Friday at 4 p.m. And wait, didn't Jordan just send us a location? To be confirmed location, but we will put something on the TTL Instagram so you can be certain of that. And we'll just do a real easy 5K, definitely a no-drop run, and mostly just a way to hang out, talk about the race, and just be friends with each other. Yeah, we'll also put it on the TTL Strava Group with Nick's proposed route. Perfect. That sounds great.

Barring a massive amount of people, we are also going to do. do free donuts for people who come. And I'll say this. If it's too many people, if you're wearing something TTO, you will get a free donut. Okay. This is, this is a thing. So now people are in this tricky position. Like, if they've heard this, do they tell their friends? Because if they're, if they bring too many friends and then the donuts aren't free. They have to own TTL, they have to own TTF's gear, you know. All right. Just show up and you may be, you may be rewarded. Yeah. You'll at least be rewarded with some time with Sweet Nick. That's right. Which is priceless. of course. Next question here is from Elliot. Short one.

Christless. Hello, TGL Nation. I wear under armor compression shorts under my bibs and trisuit as underwear if you will. And no, I will not, by the way. Why is this bad slash weird? Haven't done it any other way. Paula mentioned that she was made fun of for it back in the day. Thanks, Elliot. First of all, what do you mean? There's no way you have. experienced discomfort from doing this. Right? If you don't know, you don't know. If you haven't tried it any other way.

I guess that's, I guess, but. I can't speak to the male anatomy, but I can imagine maybe it's more of a of a secure feeling for your balls. If you have compression there. My balls are pretty nice and secure in bibs. Mine are too, yeah. Like I feel almost more comfortable in bibs

than I do out of bibs. Basically, yeah. Basically the bottom line here, here is that bibs and trisuit are specifically designed to be worn without any sort of support. It's not like, you know, to come back to our earlier podcast, like a woman running without a sports bra. It's not like that at all. Careful, Eric.

Careful. The boob mafia will come after you. No, they're only after you. I only say good things. But yeah, that's how they're designed. What I was referring to, though, back in the day was I was wearing like women's underwear, like shaped like panties underneath cycling bibs. And you could see the line.

And it just created an issue a little bit with chafing between like the underwear, which is not really meant for active wear. A lot of moisture, sweating, etc. Yeah, maybe that's too much information. But that's where I was getting not even made fun of, just be like, just someone was like, hey, you don't need to do that. Yeah.

And my rationale was, oh, I can rewear the bibs like, one or two or three times without washing them because I have underwear. That's fair. That's fair. So I'm like, oh, you mean I need to bring seven pairs of bibs to training camp? I don't know seven pairs of bibs. Right. So that was my rationale. But yeah, just do laundry or buy more bibs. Ideally, both. But if you're comfortable like that, no judgment. You probably can't even see them underneath. Whatever. But try it without. Maybe your mind will just alone. Please just give it a shot. And if you don't like it, then that's fine. It's not the same as, running with those over top of loose shorts. Because that, I would imagine,

you want a little more support for all the bouncing. I don't know. God, I don't know if this is too personal. No, I don't notice it. I like running with, I like both. I like the compression half-tice, and I also like wearing the shorts with a little liner.

Or not even a liner. What's it called? Is there another? Pany liner. But it's not like a compression liner because a lot of these new running shorts come with compression liners. We're talking about just like the freaking classic split short.

Yes, exactly. Underwear liner built into the shorts. Okay, next question here is from Jason, and we kind of alluded to this earlier. Cam Jones is headed to unbound gravel with a new bike that has 32-inch wheels. Is this something triathlon will head to? And what's the advantages?

Love the pod, thanks, Jason. We kind of talked about the advantages last week, but Eric, do you think this could possibly make its way into triathlon and or, like, UCI road cycling? Yeah, I think we mentioned this last week. the major holdup here is that so much has to be switched over inside of professional cycling. And I think that is often what holds things back from moving a little more quickly, like disc brakes adapted more quickly outside the pro peloton before inside of the

pro peloton and there's a lot of financial driver there. But the logic behind it is that it rolls a little bit faster. That's why we switch from 650 wheels to 700 C wheels. So I guess I don't see why not if that's what the bike industry is currently pushing to like continue to sell new bikes as it has been struggling lately. But the thing that's a the major sticking point for me like 54 centimeter riders not going to be a problem. 52 centimeter riders in terms of bicycle size probably not going to be a problem. But there's a bunch of people who already riding 700C on like a 49 centimeter bike and below. It's already too big and now you're trying to cram 32s on there. That's, I don't know what's going to happen with that.

but the winner of the unbound one on 32s. Yeah. I have a couple of friends who are 610 and above 7 foot and ride bikes a lot, and they're going to be very stoked that there's more options for them as 32-inch wheel riders. Yeah, if you're riding a 61 centimeter frame, 32s are just going to look right. Yep, for sure, for sure. So I don't know. I hope not.

I don't really want to change everything over. Yeah. Okay, and last question here is from Joe. Hey, gang. Since 5 is officially a gang. I guess that's true. The recent question regarding sponsorship got me wondering, what has been your favorite perk as a pro athlete?

And for Nick, what has been your favorite perk being pro athlete adjacent? Joe. I don't know, probably the van. Has that a perk? Is that considered a perk? There's like monetary value? No, no, not because that's the monetary value,

but because of how much joy it's bringing us, brought us. Yeah, I think to be the ability to get discounts or free things, when we truly love bicycles and we love running shoes and cool vests from on, et cetera, that is for sure a perk. Yeah, very fun.

And again, but that is also a byproduct of yes results and also storytelling and being involved and treating this like a career and putting an incredible amount of time and work into it.

So it's like a perk is like kind of a weird word for it, but like that's the, that we operate in. Right. Perk and current, right. I could see someone using them interchangeably, but it doesn't, they don't feel interchangeable.

Yeah. But things that we love, the things that I personally love for sure is, is people that come up and say that they've been inspired by what we do, that they saw our film or one of, our, you know, race recap or et cetera, and knowing that we have been able to have an impact through what we've built, through the results, through being a professional athlete. Yes, I think that is probably the most fulfilling long-term thing more so than getting free shoes. It's all pretty nice, though. And I'll say this as a pro-athlet adjacent, as Joe put it.

Like, I got a free bike, a free gravel bike out of just through this podcast. And Paula, I don't know if this is okay to say, but Paula really hooks me up with running shoes. And I get stuff from Castelli. it's great because like Eric said we love this stuff it's not like it's not making my job as an accountant better it's making my job as like a lover of endurance sport

better so it's pretty sweet it's a really nice position to be in and again same thing with you I don't it's like is it a perk eh I don't know you have put an incredible amount of time into giving back to the sport you could just be out completely by yourself

not talking to anybody not you know sharing what you're what you're doing it's work and and you've been rewarded for that work. So I would say you deserve it. Randomly, every once in a while, we go to a race and somebody has a hotel room, like the thing that happened in Oceanside. Yeah, that was a perk. Yeah. That's a per. Zero percent were we expecting that. Zero percent should that we expect that ever and it just magically, you know, happened.

Those are the types of things that are my favorite actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff that you completely don't expect. And then they just kind of fall into place and it's the craziest experience ever. Getting free hotel rooms or free Airbnbs or free places to stay from nice friends is very nice. We don't have a contract about that or anything. I was just like boom, popped up out of nowhere. Yeah. Oh, that was nice. Yeah, because you get a free bike or free van. You still have to do a ton of work to, you know, show the bike, show the van, put in, you know,

try to win races on the bike. Otherwise you feel like you don't deserve it. I mean, there's so much that goes into getting free stuff. It's not just like, here's the stuff and I'll never hear from you again. But yeah, when stuff like that happens out of the goodwill of other people who feel like they get value out of the things that we do and want to pay it back a bit, that's cool. Yeah.

Like I said, sometimes when we mention things on the pod that we like, people are like, oh, I work for them. Here's a gift card. That's, I love that stuff. Here's some expo dry erase markers from Leslie, that type of thing. Yes. I have to say, my position,

is in some ways, I think, more enviable because I get a lot of the perks, not all of the perks that Eric and Paula get, but I don't have to perform well. In fact, if I perform poorly, it's often better. Historically, the worst you do, the more people love it.

Yeah, but no, it's great. It's great. Guys, that's all the questions. Okay, we're going to have dinner. Is the pregnant friend okay? She's great. She was smiling. Okay. My friend Catherine is a former,

pro mountain biker and she's walking around pregnant and walked by my house. She said, uh-oh, I forgot my water. So I brought her down a bottle of water. Healthy, healthy lady, healthy babies. Way to be. A little hack if you go to Costco is we, I went to Costco today.

You get the taco platter, like the pre-made taco platter. Usually I'm not into this type of thing. But it basically has like marinated chicken, a bunch of it. And then cheddar cheese shredded up, a bunch of limes cut up, really good guacamole sauce, really good salsa, really good shredded cabbage and lettuce, and a bunch,

a stack of corn tortillas for $15. So we love doing that. That's like $750 per person. So we have that for dinner. And then we actually, we eat a ton and we always have leftovers of it. So then in the morning, we turn all the leftovers, like the leftover chicken and the cheese, into breakfast burritos. So we get four delicious meals out of this $15 Costco Taco Plight.

How many people would you say, how many normal, well, not normal? How many podcast listeners do you think it feeds? I would say we could have another couple over, no problem. So even four maybe. Yeah, if you bulked it up a bit and made rice on the side. Or you just put out chips and salsa on the side, yeah. Like when we have it, we overeat a bit to like consume it all. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Great. Yeah, that's a great hack. Love that. Thank you,

thank you, Paula. That's what we're having for dinner tonight. That's why she mentions that. Nice. And also from last week, last thing I want to say is we talked about Crandis last week, which is if you could guess what it's from. And it is from a podcast that I used to listen to called If I Were You, hosted by Jake and Amir. And apparently, we did have a podcast listener who listened to it. I don't want to give away her identity. but so nice one out of however many people listen to this podcast however many we all know the three of us know but that's confidential information t ttel after dark so alcatraz is this weekend yeah so i'll have raced okay good luck nick we'll have a little experience recap from nick and wait for your race recap and your donut run recap yes of course mostly the donut run recap no i'm sure it'll be a lot of fun i'm really looking forward to it and i'm gonna get some pro insider tips from both of you before i actually race no problem all right later everybody Bye.