That Was Us - A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

This week Mandy, Chris, and Sterling chat about first kisses, how dogs teach us how to die, and the magic of the writers on This Is Us. They break down 213, That’ll Be the Day, where Kevin takes a major step in making peace with his past, Randall learns the hard way about the realities of being a landlord, and Kate’s visit to a dog shelter brings unexpected surprises. Plus, the talented Lena Waithe, who guest-starred on 213, makes an appearance on the podcast this week! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of that was us. We will be discussing Season 2, Episode 13. That'll be the day. Kevin helps Randall and Beth with repairs on their new venture. Kate contemplates a surprise for Toby, Jack and Rebecca, talk about starting a business together. Hello. What up, gang.

Dramatic. That was a dramatic reading. That'll be the day with a little bit of foreshadowing there. That's right. This will be the day. This is the day. For the rest of their lives.

Not the episode, but it is the day and the precursor to... The episode. The day the audience would not... Shut up about. Shut up about. So by this time, the audience knows that we're going to be on after the Super Bowl, right, which is the following week.

Was it actually on? No, it was on Tuesday, obviously. It was Sunday. Yeah. What have you. But so then we had two episodes in that week. Is that how it went? We had Tuesday, then Sunday.

Wow. Yep. Right. So now folks are getting, the pump has been primed, so to speak. At the end of the last episode, we saw the smoke detector battery was not present. That's right. We open up on this episode, and there's this. delightful elder couple in their garage, talking about how they're about to sell their home,

going through their things and saying, like, you know what, we've got to get rid of some of this stuff. We can't keep it all. We'll get a new place. We'll have new things. What are their names? George and Sally? They're so good. Yeah. Like, George and Sally made me dream about being an older couple. Yeah. I was like, I want to have that level of place. Yeah, and just familiarity. Like, I feel like those actors must have known each other, but if they didn't, man, did they just kill the idea that, like, they've been together forever? Yes, and Jack McGee plays George. Yes.

And Jane Daly plays Sally. Jack and Jane. And, again, two more legends to the This Is Us cast roster. I think Jack, wasn't Jack McGee a good friend of Dan's? I believe so. It was like a personal friend of Dan's. Oh, okay. From some other project.

And in the long run, after all, if this was said and done, Jack. Got a lot of blame. Jack got a lot. Remember? Well, we'll get to this. Yeah. Just remember we said that. Yeah, Jack was like, Dan, what did you do to me?

It's not what he signed up for. I thought I was just being friendly neighbor. It's Super Bowl Sunday in this episode. The Chili is on. Jack and Rebecca clearly have their, their, They're sort of traditions, which is chili on Super Bowl. They do shots, except this year it's orange juice and not vodka. Correct.

Yeah, you talk a lot about the chili. A lot about the chili. To be clearer as to what chili gets cooked in. Yeah. Again, let's clock that for later. There's also, like Jack said at the end of the last episode, like he wanted to start big three houses. Yeah.

Right? And you're like, okay. And then he says, like, well, maybe I don't just quit the job completely. he's going through the paper. Maybe I can start with a few flips and that'll be a good way to sort of ease my way into it. You know, kids are about to go off to college.

Maybe I'll just upend everything, right? And you're like, yeah, it's a good idea. Not so bad, right? Sure. This is the last Super Bowl with the kids, too. So there's a lot, the big deal being made about that. That's right. This clearly is like a huge event in the Pearson household.

It's something that kind of collectively do all together as a family every year. and the fact that this is the last one before everybody flies away is, you know, the parents are feeling that. Hand me the hat. Can you reach it? Yeah, I can reach it. We'll put it out front.

So there it is. Big three homes. Big three. Mm-hmm. It's also, this reminds me, too, as I have a teenager in the house and a nine-year-old that Jack and Rebecca were not in this particular moment, if things would have gone according to plan, they don't get a chance to gradually be

empty nesters. Right. All at once. All three of them have their own angsty version of teenage, or angsty version of sort of like leaving and cleaving, separating, finding their own identity that is separate and distinct from their parents. Yes. Even though Randall still like probably like holds on like the tightest, but that you get, you don't get a chance to like, oh, one's gone. I still got these two. No, all at once. Like they're about to all. Yeah. At the same time, I'm so thankful that I don't have triplets. Same. You know what I'm saying?

I already feel like, oh, when the first one's gone, that's going to be tough. But I still got this baby. And then when he's gone, that'll be tough. But at least I would have been able to prepare for it a little bit, you know? You guys, it's just going to be gone. And as you see through the course of the episode, we stick through just like the past timeline, right? There is. Well, Kate has applied to Berkeley.

That's right. And she finds out that she's gotten in. A final round of Berkeley. They want... They want... An original song. An original song, right? Kevin is applying to Allegheny Community College.

This is Allison Randall's girlfriend that's sort of asking Kevin what he's doing because she hears that Sophie is applied to NYU and she's waiting to hear about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Kevin is, you know, pretty down... Very down on his choices that he has in front of him. Yeah.

And then Randall's happy because he's got a girlfriend. The little red-haired girl's at the crib. He's pretty much in a great place, right? But let's do the Kate one, because I think that's pretty interesting. Because Jack offers to record her. He's like, we can record it. We send in the whole thing. It's going to be fantastic.

And she's like, no, that's like the last thing that I want. And they're like, oh, Katie Girl, you're absolutely beautiful. By the way, script-wise, is Katie Girl ever scripted it? Or is that just Milo? I think that was just Milo. It's pretty good. Yeah. I love Katie Girl.

Yeah. Like, yeah, I love Katie Girl. That's it. I just wanted to say that. It was a good discovery and it stuck, and I love it. She doesn't want that, though. So she goes to rehearse her song. In her room.

In her room, by herself. And she's just in the recorder, audio recorder, doing her thing. It's also called a microphone. I don't know. With a tape cassette. I'm losing terms. But she's doing this song. She's doing her thing.

She's chilling. And then Jack, trying to be as just quiet as possible, is recording it. Yeah. Right? That's his style. That's his thing. Stealth videographer. It's also, it's very my love.

Yeah. True. Who pops up on set and he's just got a camera in the band. Hey, Stero. Just taking shots. She sees in the mirror that he did it. And she's like, what is your problem? Yeah.

I told you not to do this. Yeah. Like, I don't like it, right? It turned out to be one of my favorite shots. of the whole show. It's a great shot. The evocative nature of a father kind of...

Doting on his daughter. Yeah. Him in the mirror. Like, they use it a couple of times now in like montages and things after we see it for this first time. Sure. And it's really, it affects me a lot, yeah.

Well, because I want to, if you guys remember the lines, let me know, because she tells him, like, I need you to stop saying that I'm beautiful and stuff. That's not the, and I don't know if it's this episode or previous. No, it's this episode. She's like, because that's not the way people relate to me, and it's not the way I see myself.

So anytime you say it, it just makes me feel bad. Yeah. So will you just stop? Yeah. And like... Yeah, like, I don't see myself the way you see me, so stop doing that. It is these moments of like, my little girl is not a little girl in the things.

And he had a section like this in C's... one where he was trying to sort of like talk her up. The things aren't working anymore. You're not working anymore. You're at the birthday party, right? And so there's a circling back to that again now and just like, we just stop. Okay? Yeah.

And it's almost like Jack doesn't have words, so he just has to stop. Yeah. Right? She winds up getting a hold of the videotape. Maybe out of curiosity. I'm not sure exactly what prompts her to look at it, but she does. She looks at the videotape and more important than seeing herself sing, is that in the reflection, she can see her dad looking at her.

Yeah. And Brown got a little teary on this way. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because my man is looking at this girl with pure, unadulterated, love. Yeah. Admiration, love. Just unconditional. Beaming.

Yeah. And so she comes back and she's asked, I wrote it now. I want to get it right. She says, don't stop. Yeah, like never stop seeing me that way. Okay. She says, don't ever stop. don't stop trying to make me see myself the way you see me.

Okay, Katie, girl, I won't stop. Yeah. Oh, it's really good. We rarely get, they mentioned it a couple episodes previous where it's like, I wish somebody would have filmed our childhood. Yeah. And when you said that in the episode, I was like, well, somebody did. Sure.

Andy saved the tapes. Andy, I mean, sorry, jumping ahead. Jumping ahead. But we know now, you know. You still have the tapes. Yeah. Somehow. Somehow you've got these tapes, right?

Right. Because if we could see, yeah. And you might not be able to see your whole life, but to catch a glimpse, an inarguable glimpse of the way somebody sees you. Absolutely. Is hard to do. Pricely. It's like when someone takes a photo of you and your partner and neither one of you knows you're being photographed and you happen to see the way that you're looking at each other or the way they're looking at you or vice versa. sure um hopefully it happens to me someday uh they're just the rare moments and they're and i guess

maybe that's why that that shot affects me so much yeah it's a beautiful shot it really is shot by man those aren't when he's using the real cameras yeah yeah when he's when he's shooting those things absolutely so as you said kev now in the past is uh applying the alleghany they're getting ready for the super bowl i remember there's a conversation. Jack's showing him the entertainment center. Yeah, and he's, right? And he's like, what he's just a big deal? He's like, you know what, man? Like, every time I feel like reaching for a drink, I just pick up a hammer instead, right? Stay busy. Yeah. So Kev sort of clocks that, what have you. And you guys, I'm going to do something really strange. But I want to say something

from the previous episode while we're talking about 1813. There's a moment where you're when the two Pearson men, Jack and Kevin, are putting on their suits and they're doing their ties up or whatnot. And you see, like, Kev is kind of feeling good in the suit. Like, he actually looks good with his crutches and whatnot. And Jack is fixing him up. And I can't remember what's happening, but like, we're so used to seeing Logan just be so disdainful and dismissive, et cetera.

But he sees his dad, like, helping him, like, look like a man and become a man and he just says thank you right and i want to say that because it was a moment that touched me yeah right to where like i'm not always shitting on him because he always seems like it's like going through the worst time and he is going through the worst time and he's 17 and he has all these hormones rushing through his body and he had this one perception of what his life was going to be because he gets to the super bowl you guys you guys don't understand. I wasn't supposed to be here watching the Super Bowl like you guys. I was supposed to be in it. Right? And now my life is shit. Yeah. Right? My girlfriend is going to the school of

her dreams. All of the prospects that I had, I'm applying to. Mom is like, junior college isn't so bad. He's like, don't try. Yeah, don't play Kate me. You know what I'm saying? And it's like Kate and Kevin are both going through that thing at the same time. Like, you guys can try to say things. and make it seem like we know what it is to a certain extent? We know. I'll put that in quotation marks. Let us live it to a certain extent, right? Then everybody sort of winds up sort of piecing out also.

It's important. Kate says after she has her moment with her dad, she's like, you know what, actually my homie is having people over. Is it okay if I go over there? Cool, cool, cool, cool. Kev's like, I'm going to go hang out with Sophie. You know, we may watch, we may not, right? Like, I don't even think they wind up watching it.

They're watching the Princess Bride. He then says, hey, I hear there's a party in the woods to know. And he hears there's a party in the woods. But, like, as all the things that they were doing to have this last final Super Bowl together, everybody's just sort of trickling out. Randall goes to Titanic. Randall is as happy as a pig and slop. To see it the seventh time.

But he's like that actually, I was thinking about taking Allison to the movies, we're going to go see Titanic. And he's like, haven't you seen it? He's like, I can't remember. They're like, she hasn't seen it. She's seen it seven times. She's seen it seven times. He's like, but we actually haven't gone on like our first date. And he's like, go ahead, man.

He's like, thanks, done. He's gone. This is how this can be. And so it's just the two is just J&R. Like, by themselves where their teenage kids are all like thinking about something completely different. But this beautiful moment transpires where you're trying to get him to eat. What was you trying to get him to eat? Like corn muffins.

You're trying to give him to corn. He's like, I'm not really into it. He's like, I'm trying to do something sweet, dude. Just eat a corn mouth. And he flips it open and you've circled something from the real estate section about a building or a house. An elder couple is leaving it and it's a bit of a renovation or what have you. But I think it would be a really good start for you in terms of what you were talking about earlier. And your husband looks at you and he's like, do this with me.

And you're like, what? Yeah. Like, I just trying to be helpful. You didn't like that. Like, you don't have to do it. She's like, I wouldn't do anything that I didn't want to do, right? Yeah, and he's like, you handled the renovation here. Yeah.

And she's like, well, I kind of did. Yeah, I did the finances, and I was organized, and I coordinated everything. And I think, like, the idea starts to dawn on her, like, I am pretty good at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I could handle that. Also a real life love of Mandy Moore. Yeah, true. I was like, that sounds fun.

I also think it's funny, as Dan was like working on this show and like having his wife be on the show, I feel like there's something sort of going on with him is like, can I work with my wife? Let's figure out how this works. Let me see how it works on the show. If I'm writing a handbook for a living, let's see what happens.

If a husband and wife work together. More, that was us, after. this short break. All right, we've all been there, gang. Standing in the pet food aisle, staring at a wall of bags, wondering what's actually in all that kibble. Spoiler alert. It's usually a bunch of processed stuff and fillers.

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That is a very interesting point that you make, Mandy, because the shelf-stable nature of this unkibble has been kind of a game-changer in our household. Over the pandemic, we switched to all different kinds of food. And we even had to buy a special freezer in our garage to house the large amounts of food that I was constantly defrosting and moving from the freezer in the garage up to the kitchen. Now I've got a couple of sweet bags of uncibble. Come on now. Just sitting there in a drawer waiting to be freshly scooped right into their bowls. And I'll tell you what, my dogs, Harry and Sally, that's right. You heard me right. They love it. I love that. And you know, it's not just about what's in the food, it's about how personalize the whole process is. So when you sign up, Spot and Tango creates

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go to spotantango.com slash TWU and use code TWU to get 50% off your first order. That's spot and tango.com slash TWU code TWU to get 50% off your first order. spot and tango.com slash T-W-U code T-W-U. They watch the Super Bowl folks are, he realizes everybody's gone, so he's got to start cleaning up. Was he already upstairs asleep? Yeah, no, we were, we go upstairs.

You guys, that's right. You guys get, the party gets started because you're over the table. Yep. Right? It starts to get a little hot. You can't have sex in the office. In the office.

That's not professional. So we go upstairs. Boots get knocked. Knocked boots. And then... Beck is asleep. She's asleep. And he's like, you know what?

I guess I gotta go straighten up the house. He also writes a note to Kevin who sort of just slipped out. He told you that he was leaving, but he didn't tell Jack that he was leaving after sort of like blowing up at him. He says, you know, if I don't talk to you, I love you, you always an apology. Right? That was like... goes down to the kitchen putting up food sweeping the floor dishes in the dishwasher Randall comes in Randall comes in I was a date son he's like it's pretty great and he says

that he got had his first kiss which is so sweet because listen Brown's a late bloomer Brown was 15. Randall was 17 years old for his first kiss. Is 15 late for your first kiss? I think Is it? Is it? That's pretty late. I don't know. First kiss? I guess 14 or 15.

Okay. Yeah. Like first real kiss, like there's like a truth or dare sort of like, heck, but. No, 13. See? Okay, it's all coming back. No, it's all coming back. Junior high.

Okay. Churchill Middle School. Yes. Little skinny Chris. Look at that smile. Is dating, dating. Yeah. Remember when you used to date?

Of course. Just involved, like, talking to the person. Sure. for 10 minutes a day. Yeah. Her name was Marisola. Yeah, it was. I won't say a last name.

Marisol is perfect. Yeah. And we kissed at the dance. We both had giant metal braces. And they didn't get caught on. Oh, they did? Sure. Yeah, yeah.

It was quag, quang, quang, quang. And she, we kissed. And then we would kiss at lunch at the lockers. Okay. Right before I go to class, right? And she, she would wear real dark lipstick with even darker, like, Lip liner. Just leave it all over here.

Well, I didn't know. And I'd walk into class, and my teacher would be like, get out of here. What? Just, just, just, just lipstick all over this face. And what, you want you to go wash your face? Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah.

First kiss Mandy Moore, please. Oh, my God. I can't remember. No. There's been so many. No, that's not true. Mandy says, every kiss is my first kiss. Yeah, exactly.

God, I can't remember you guys. No, come on. You just don't want to talk about it. No, no, I truly, I'm like, who was it? It was in Orlando. I'm going to go. Okay, go, go. And then you think about it.

Okay. First kiss, sophomore year of high school. That's what I'm saying. I thought like I was late. That's late. That's late. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I guess now that I'm an adult with kids, I'm thinking, that's not late enough.

That's not late enough. Like, wait a minute. What do you mean, 15? College. Right. You're going to live with me until you're 25. And then after that, you're taking me the lunch every day. That's what he said.

Look at you. Look at that slide. I was 15. And I was at a party. And there was dancing party. Not really. Like, most parties where I went to school weren't meant for dancing. No.

It was for people, listen, doing things that they weren't supposed to be doing at age 15 with regards to embodment, right? So there's imbibing, et cetera. But having a good time, there's dancing, folks are grooving, and this one girl starts dancing with me. Her name is Tanya, right? And like, we're dancing close, it's fun. Things are percolating. We're having a good time.

My friend who has the car, who has the, like the Jeep that's going to take us home, he's like, hey, you guys don't have all day. Like, I got to get out of here soon. So he's going to give everybody a ride home. So I'm sitting, he's giving me a ride home, and she's giving her ride home, right? And so I'm sitting in the front seat of the Jeep. And she's sort of, like, massaging my shoulders. Can we real quick, before we get too far away from your friend with the Jeep,

remember a time when you could be in the middle of kissing somebody and a friend would touch you while it was happening? Yeah, like, hey, we're going. Listen, we're about to get pretty much to that place. None. And you're kissing it. None at all. And they're like, this close. Hey, you guys, are you guys done?

Are you finished? Because I have to go. I love it. Go on. It's about to be something like that. So we, he goes, he drops us at her house first. And as I'm walking her to the door, he goes, I got five minutes. That's not all you can.

No. And I was like, oh, gosh. So I'll drop it over and because she's going to invite me in. Right. And I was like, you know what? I can't let my man wait. Like, I kind of got to get out there. And she's like, you got to go?

Wow. And I was like, yeah. She's like, you got to go right now? Tanya. And I'm like, yeah. And then the tongues. Oh, wow, tongue. Listen, I told you,

imbibement had happened. So, like, you kind of go to, like, you skip steps to a certain extent. Didn't even kiss. They just knocked tongues together. It was so wet. Okay. So, listen. Mandy, are you remembering yours at all?

So messy and so delightful. So delightful. It was just the best thing. Shout out Tanya. Shout out. I wound up, right? She gets cheesy. Kissed to you.

Like, I don't even know. She knows that she was my first kiss, right? Right. But it was, I was on cloud nine. Yeah. That's awesome. So that's my first kiss. So you have to remember.

I don't. Orlando, 1999. I'm not, I'm... It's not 92. Or 98. It's... My first kiss, not real kiss, but was with Jesse. Okay.

We were in a production of the Christmas Carol together. He played my brother. Okay. Was this on stage then? No, no, it wasn't on stage. Was it a reinterpretation? No, it was. Yeah.

It was a game of truth or damn backstage. She had a little crutch. We were the cratchets. God bless us. But we played a game of truth or dare, and he was my first kiss. Okay. How old? I want to say I was 13.

Okay. So you guys were a couple years before. Yeah. But very innocent. There was no kiss. singing with tongues for a very long time. Yeah, I skipped that. I was like recording music about being in love and hadn't French kissed a boy before.

And in the meantime, looking back, like the music that was being played at my junior high dance is like strip club music. Totally. Like, what was happening? Totally. Jesus. Just simulated grind. 13 year olds, backing it up. Yeah.

And you're like, these are 13-year-olds. Come through, genuine, you eyes. And like, what the? Totally. Pony. Okay, that's a good, good a little interlude of first kisses there. Jack finishes, uh, straightening things up. We flash back to George and, um, Sally.

And she's like, Sally's telling them, hey, George, we're going to get new things. We'll get a new place. Don't even worry about it. Well, we got a bite on the house. She's like, we got a bite on the house. Right. We got a bite on the house, especially after we have just heard Jack and Rebecca talking about they want to flip this house, right? So you think that this is the couple.

This is the house that they're going to be flipping, what have you. So George winds up going to the garage and he's like, you know what, I just don't want things to just go. He wants to give something to somebody that will be of value, of use, right? So he winds up bringing a box across the street. He knocks on the door and we see young Jack and Rebecca getting their house together, pre-kids, right? Yeah, she's pregnant. Yeah, she's pregnant with the kid. Flashback.

They're like, hey, hey, George. You know, they're like, hey, George. And, um. Do them all. Do them all. What did George say? He's like, look, I got something to hear. I got this.

I got this. I got this thing. Soul cooker. There you go. I got this. Muck, muck, mack, mack. You guys. Muck, muck, muck, muck.

Yeah, baha. All right. Oh, all right. Oh, Tom. He says, listen, it still works, a lot of good meals who've come from this thing. It was only two years old. I'm like, why? Yeah, it's not that bad.

Why are you getting rid of it, George? It's like, I'm going to be dead soon. It still works. You got to jiggle and handle a little bit, but it still works. I got to be fast cooking. I can't be slow cooking. I need my meals. Like, now.

That's when George's got the first microwave. They got rid of the slow cooker just to zap all the nutrients out of the food. Yeah, listen. And then we see Jack. He's folding towel, da-da-da-da, puts it down next to the slow cooker, and he turns the slow cooker off. Yep. Right? So it's like, cool.

And then you hear this thing, like you got a jiggle handle a little bit, et cetera. He leaves the kitchen. I don't know if he makes it all the way back up to the bedroom or what have you. I can't tell. But like a T-2000. You see like the light flicker on the slow cooker. It opens its eye. And then catches on fire.

And then the towel right next to it. Yes. Yeah. Fire starts. I thought we just saw the little light on. No, no, no. You see that? Then because the towel is next to it, the towel ignites.

And then in that same episode, you see the curtains on the back of the kitchen. Start to go. Start to go. And then Dan Fogerman says, yeah, that'll be enough till next week. That's about. And he's like, let me go ahead and add this song in there that's going to make everyone weep. To build a home. To build a home.

To build a home. This is the song we've been talking about for a few episodes now by the cinematic orchestra featuring Patrick Watson or something. That's right. That sounds right. This is an orchestra, obviously, that does mostly instrumentals. And I looked on this album, but this is the only song on this album with vocals. And it is one of the most evocative songs I have ever heard. And to this day. Same. I hear it and I'm like, whoof, takes me back immediately to this moment. I almost, I will say, for the sake of overstatement, never has a song done so much for a moving picture and moving picture done so much for a song. It is the perfect synchronicity, and it's probably Dan Fogelman, right?

I'm sure. Who found this song. The man just has impeccable taste in music. Yeah. And we go through this montage of the house. Catching fire. Catching fire. while simultaneously reliving some of the most important moments in their life.

Ugh, it's like I was weeping. A mess. Yeah. And you see the note burning to Kevin. I mean, it was just like so much. Yep. So that's what happens in the past. So that's what happens in the past.

Can we do Kotogi there? Yeah. Because this is one of the funnier openings, I think, to you guys. You're in bed on the computer. and then Kate walks into the bedroom and you hide the computer. Yeah, you're like slamming the computer. And she's like, what are you doing?

You're like, nothing? Nothing? Don't worry about it. She's like, you're watching porn. You're like, no, not watching porn. You're like, what's your thing? I know a season and a half of television would lead you to believe that I am, but I am not.

I love how casual. I'm not horny, the writer, just write me this way. How casual she is. She's like, let's say it. I want to know. Yeah, she's like, what are you into? What's the kink, big dog? Let's see if we can work this out.

And you're like, no. It's not that she winds up getting the computer, you relent, and it's puppies. Just pages and pages. Pet finder, right? What do you tell her? What's the reason that you're on it for? Masturbation. Wait, what are we talking about?

Now, here's the thing. This is my favorite part. when our producers try not to laugh argument. They're just like, what is wrong with this guy? That's not why they were laughing.

They weren't laughing about what was wrong with this guy, Sterling. They were laughing because it was a funny joke. It was a funny joke. Sterling, how dare you? What's wrong with that? How dare you?

That's pushing the limits of what the brand of this is. Again, I didn't write me this way. But nobody's writing you now. I beg to differ. This is all scripted. This is all, I give all glory to God. I got him.

Oh, Jesus. No, it's something that he does to pass the time. He pictures himself a dog owner. He knows, he even says, I know that dogs are a tricky subject for you, but it's something that I, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I have this in my life. Do you have anything in your life that it's not social media related, say, that is like a little, like, online habit that you're like, because for me, it's real estate. Same, same. I will be like, you know, I visited Rachel's grandpa and Quincy, Illinois once.

I wonder what the real estate marketing, Quincy Illinois is like, and I go on my favorite. Zillow or? Yeah. I'm a truly a guy. Okay. Not paid advertisement. But one of my favorite pastimes is to go, especially since. The L.A. market is so overblown.

Sure. It's to go to a small town like Quincy and see what the most expensive house in Quincy, Illinois. It's a fun game. Pick a small town and find the biggest house. And that one in particular was great. You guys, on a mountain top, a stone house made of like a big block stone. Looked like a castle on a mountain top. Yeah.

How old? Like recent. Oh, okay. Like 20 years old. Okay. Quanto question. How much? Hold on.

Okay. Ten bedrooms. Twelve bathrooms. What? Four car garage. Wow. Ten acres. You have to guess first?

I do want you to guess Quincy, Illinois. How much do you think it was? How far is Quincy from Chicago? Yeah, what's the biggest major city? Yeah. The biggest major city is Hannibal, Missouri. Across the... Nope.

I'm from Missouri. We flew into St. Louis. And then we took a puddle down. Jumper to Quincy. Okay. This was maybe four or five years ago. I hope I don't go too low. I'm going to say one seven.

I'm going to say two. $750,000. Stop me. You guys, we live in the wrong city. Anyways, so that's what I do online when I'm like bored. I'm looking at things. Mine is games. Mind games.

Oh, you love like word. Word games. You? Is Jeff, our producer, just went to a final house? Are you in Quincy, Illinois? Oh, you got to find it. Maybe it's off market now. It must be off market at this point.

Oh, that's cute. 7.50. I think so. I think that's what I remember, yeah. Yeah, I'd like my name. Sterling, you got me into Spelling Bee, and then I got Taylor into spelling me. So you guys do it? Yeah.

Do you try to make it to, like, Queen Bee, or do you try to make it to genius? Oh, no. Do you guys have any shame around your mindless Internet behavior? Like when someone sees you doing it, you're like, oh, hey, no, I'm not doing anything. Or is it, or do you indulge? Do you indulge? Do you indulge? Yeah, I feel, I feel not great about it.

Correct. Yeah. Rye is no, like, Rye is social media, like, she's recently, she's in the midst of transitioning from X, but she's a, she TikTok's hard. Oh, wow. She ticktocks hard. Okay. And she doesn't, she didn't do it with any shame.

Yeah. Then every once in a while, Andrew. grabs her phone when she tries to get him to get off his phone and looks up her screen time and then he says so you want me to stop being on my phone and he'll show like 23 hours of screen time because ryan never turns her phone off i don't either you don't no i like i keep the baby monitor on all night so i'm like oh wow what i mean by office like she has something on her settings where if you if you flip it open the screen never goes The screen never goes off. Got it.

Right. So he's like, how dare you come at me for screen? No, I'm not ashamed of it. I'm pretty good with it. And so Toby's been fantasy shopping for dogs. Fantasy shopping for dogs. He's thinking maybe a dog. Knows that it's a difficult thing for Kate, right?

And so he's keeping it to himself. Kate sees that, you know, my husband really wants a dog. So let me see if I can get over whatever it is that's holding me back from this. She's like, this is the first thing he's been excited about that's not sex in the entirety of the time that I've known him. She goes to a shelter and she meets

up with a guest that we're going to have on the show later on that I'm very excited to talk to Miss Lina Weath. Oh my gosh. Who's just so cool and she's like it feels like the perfect sort of cameo for her. You know what I'm saying? Because she's just hanging with dogs and she's

so easy and laid back. And it like instantly made us like an HBO show. It comes on and you're like Oh, we just leveled up. We totally leveled up. We totally. But there's also just like a natural sort of nonchalance and coolness that she has that balances with Kate's anxiety over everything that's going on, right? And so she thinks she has a dog in her mind and then she sees this dog off to the side.

I got to say, I'm not necessarily a pet person. Yeah. Let me be, I have a dog. it's a complicated relationship for us because I'm still learning how to be a pet person with the dog but when I saw that dog I was like that dog's pretty cute

I could have the dog like that right and so you see Kate also be very much attracted to audio is his name and they're in the room with Lena like trying to finalize how they're going to do the cell etc and Lena has to leave for something I got to go grab something, I'll be right back.

And Kate's just stroking the dog, he's petting the dog, and saying the whole time, this isn't going to work. Like, I thought I was ready for something like this, but I'm just not. But she never stops not petting the dog. Her hand is on him the whole time. And I was like, I don't know if your words and your actions are in synchronous. But she does get teary or whatnot. It looks like she's going to leave and says, I'm sorry, I just can't do this.

She comes home, she comes home to her man, and she tells him, like, look, I went to this pet shelter today thinking that, you know, maybe a dog would be the right thing. You remember, you say, I talk too much on this thing. No, you don't. I just don't on me. I think I talk entirely too much on this podcast. No, you are such a great leader. I appreciate that. You are.

It's very sweet. But you are in the scene. You have a better perspective on it than myself. No, she comes home and says, listen. I know that this seems like it means a lot to you. Yeah. I've thought about it. Dan and the writers give a little bit of a head fake.

Like, it's not going to happen. Right. And then she says, but I did. Yeah. And she says, you come out into the hallway or whatnot. And I would like to say for a dog that has never been in a house, that I thank you for just staying still. No, listen.

Talk to us a little bit, because I know a little bit of this. You know, the old saying in Hollywood, babies and pets, like, you know... Don't work with them. You can't really control them. It makes a day of shooting difficult. And our writers just kept adding more children and more pets at every turn. How was this dog?

This dog was great. This dog was great. This dog was well-trained. I cannot remember the dog's real name. Okay. Wait, can we also talk about the fact that, like, where did he go? One of the great T-I-U mysteries. That's right.

Wait, wait a bit. he didn't stay after after after the pandemic we came back and he and audio is just gone really yeah because they're like we can't I did not know that yeah well he refused to wear a mask well that and so and so the writers were like well then kick rocks we'll be right back with more that was us I'm about to go on a trip with the family gang. We're going down under. It's going to be the first time that we as a family.

I'm talking about Australia. We as a family are going down under for the first time. I'm very, very excited about it. I'm already planning everything. Trying to figure out what we're going to do. If we're going to go see some crocodiles and kangaroos and all that kind of stuff. And we're also trying to figure out where to stay. Hey, I have an idea.

What do you got? You should get an Airbnb. You think so? Hotels can be fine, right? But nothing beats having a full. place to yourself, especially when traveling with a family, like yours or a group. Now, there's no fighting over who gets the last hotel keycard or squeezing into one room with all your bags everywhere. God, and don't get me started on those tiny hotel mini-fridges.

Don't start. I love knowing that I'm going to have a place that actually feels like home, especially if I need to pack specific things for my little ones, not to get too heavy, but we were displaced from the fires, and we relied on it. Airbnb. We move from Airbnb to Airbnb all over this city of Los Angeles over the last couple of weeks. And I'm so grateful because you can get specific. You can get granular about exactly what you need. Like with little ones if they have a crib or a pack and play or toys. Making sure there's not a staircase. I love Airbnb. It makes you feel like you're staying at home. You have the creature comforts at home that you just, you can't get when you're staying in a hotel. Also, just thank you

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Tell them this thing, because Sully has dogs, too. Yeah, I've got a couple of dogs. I was watching the scene, and I saw when audio goes to give the doggy kissed, so there's a little bit of like, okay, you know, see? So it's sort of like, pulls back a little bit. Well, the trainer, we're like, okay, how do we do this? Oh, and by the way, none of the writers asked either Chrissy or I, Hey, you guys allergic to dogs?

Are you? Yes. You have dogs, though. We have hypoallergenic dogs, hypologionic breeds. But even still, I'm a little allergic to them. Okay. You know, if I really get in your, you don't do that with your dog. I told you guys, I'm still learning.

I'm still learning how to like my dog. Does your family love the dog? So I had a dog growing up. Yeah. Similar. Much like Kate Pearson. To Kate Pearson. Oh.

And his name was Dutch. He was a rescue, half German Shepherd, half Kali. Love me some Dutch, right? And I remember acutely, while it wasn't the same way, I don't know. We don't know exactly what happened to the Pearson's dog back in the day because he's cool. But I remember Dutch passing away. He had developed arthritis. He's dragging a while and to the point

where he actually wore a hole in his paw, what have you, and just things were going down. And I remember one day coming home and being like, guys, where's Dutch, right? And I saw my parents look at each other because they had taken them to the Humane Society, I think, the day before. And there was a day as a kid where you just jumbled

and I was like, I didn't see Dutch. And it's like, now wait, Dutch isn't here again. Where's Dutch? And they're like, you know, had to put Dutch down. And so I think part of me learning how to like my dog is knowing, and we talked about this a little bit before, is that eventually they'll be gone. Yeah.

I recently heard someone say that dogs are here to teach us how to die. Yes. Did you say that on this podcast? No, you said it. You said it because I think we've mentioned this briefly before, right? Because it does prepare us the eventuality of human passing that transpires in our life. If you've dealt with it to some degree with a pet before, then you have some level of what to expect.

Understanding, existence and passive. Exactly. So I still think, though, that Brown... Carries that trauma. So I don't get... Same way Kate does. And I don't get... I'm still not very close with the dog. Because this is probably, I would say,

the most surprising thing I know about you. Yeah. Because if you asked, anyone on the street. If you showed them a single clip of you or they know anything about you, is this guy fanatical about dogs? Does this guy love dogs?

You're like, yeah. This guy is... Crazy about him. Is a retriever. The energy. He's, he really is. I am. He's going to wear you down.

Maybe he will. You just need a dog. You just need a dog. Wait, do the kids and Ryan, are they obsessed? Love the dog. Yeah. They love the dog.

And they, they, they, So the dog is high energy. I'll say the dog's name, but I usually refer to him as the dog. That's probably not the name of bonding. Hold on. Yes, today. Listen, say his name. His name is Zion.

That's right. His name is Zion. Okay. So Zion is a high energy dog. Yeah. Like a lion. As soon as you come into the house, it's jumping and jumping and all this sort of things. And it's not necessarily my style.

It reminds me at one point in time, this is funny. at one point in time we had like a base camp PA on our show who was a very high energy individual I can't believe this is where this is going is this the person that was there for the first season and then yeah I'm just saying high energy and sometimes when you have an early call and it's the first thing in the more

that level of energy can be a little like oh jarring yeah a little jarring so Zion for me Yeah. It's similar. Something like that. And so I've actually trained Zion. So he'll come home and he'll get excited. And he'll be like, he'll remember, oh, it's Sterling.

So then he'll sit still. Oh, buddy. Yeah. Tail is like this. Can't control the tail. He'll get this. Can't train a tail. And then if I go to like pet him, he'll go like this to get close.

And then he'll be like, oh, buddy. Oh, I love him. And then he'll get scratches. That's right. So I'm not malevolent. You know what I'm saying? But I was like, I had to actually show him. I was like, hey, Zahn, I actually kind of need you to meet me where I am to.

Halfway. You know what I'm saying? All right. So yeah. But then you can go out. Yeah. I love it. So yeah, we were talking about Kate.

We got to get to Randall's storyline. Yeah. Randall and Beth, R&B, real estate. I do. Well, you're finished with. I wanted to tell you, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, The dog kiss. The dog kiss.

The dog kiss. That's what we were. That's what we were. The trainer. So Kate and Toby get a dog about as quickly as, as Chrissy and Chris realize they're going to be working with a dog for the next however long. And we're like, okay. Nobody thought to like check. Ask us.

You got to like them. Yeah. Yeah. Or if, like I used to be deathly allergic to cats. Like I used to be, if I went to your house and you opened. the front door, I would know if you had a cat. I'm like that. Standing on the front porch.

I'm a little like that. I'm so sorry. I can't. I'll take it as I take before. Yeah. Anyways, we love it. The dog's there. He's very cute.

We're into it. Yeah. Trainer's like, and if you want, you know, you can just put like a little, if you have like a little bit of tuna fish or something, you just put it on your fingers or have a little and just the scent. Wait, so did you eat a tuna sandwich? This, no, because I don't like tuna. And I was like, but I'll have a bite.

And it's like, and, and his focus. will be on you no matter what. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, okay, great. So when I pick him up in the shot, I look at him, and I think this dog is just gonna look at me, because it's a very well-trained dog. And I think he's just gonna be like, look at me.

And dog just comes in for a straight-up Tanya. And it was messy and wet. And I saw him pull back a little bit. I was like, that's not Chris's thing. Because the camera was rolling, so I was like, well, it could be Toby's thing. And I'm like, but it doesn't have. It doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be. I decide what Toby's things are.

What did you put on your face to make it alluring? I did have a little bit. He had a bite. He had a bite too. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, halfway through, I'm like, I'm not doing this. Okay. Because as soon as, if this becomes pop, if like the director's like that was great, they're going to be like, can we do that thing you did the first time to do it again? They'll be like your thing. Are you a doggy kiss person? No. You're not. Okay. See, it's funny because like. Are you a juja? Yes, I'm a juja, but I'm not a. My community thinks that you. You guys all love doggy kisses. I like a doggy kiss, a lick on the nose.

Fine. A lick on the, that's cool. I don't need your tongue on my mouth, dog. It is, guys, guys, I don't need your tongue in my mouth, dog. The two most iconic examples, which still make me laugh, the most is there's something about Mary. Oh, yeah.

Right. That woman and that, I was like, I can't play that. I was like, I would have, cringed. Yeah, cringed. Yeah. And then recently, Reynolds, does it in Deadpool. With the ugliest dog in the world?

It's not a cutie. No. And it is, he goes all, it's like they are, it's intense. Have you not seen? No. Yeah. Those are two ones. And that's what makes black people think that you guys all like it.

But you don't. I'm so delighted to hear it. Listen, Sterling, we're not all like that. We're not all alike. First of all, how dare. First of all, how dare you? How dare you? That, that's that storyline, right?

That's the, and that's that story. Because we're going to run out of time. Randall and Beth buy this building. And they talk about how excited they are to sort of bring respectability and, you know, dignity to this place so that people get a chance to live in a building that they can be proud of, right? And Beth is encouraging Randall, like, don't get ahead of yourself. She knows what she's doing. Yeah. Let's take your time.

She knows how to do this. She knows exactly how to do this. And she talks about one of the, we have to bring things up to code when she's a driver. dressing all the people. And then Garrett Morris just starts, Lloyd is just cracking all kinds of jokes and everything. And it talks about who's going to fix something in my place and somebody's got a door that's not working. And Randall's like, I can fix that. And Beth's looking at him like, he's like, well, it's just a door. You know, no big deal. My dad did this. And so everybody starts yelling out things that they need to fix. And he starts writing them down. Has Kevin already

showed up at this point? When does he show up? He's about to come in right after that. And she looks at him like, look, man, you did. And he's like, I know what you're about to say. And they have this whole conversation about how he knows that, you know, I took a bit off more than I can chew, but I'm going to show you that I can do all this. And I didn't do more than that. And she's like, well, if you already said it, then I'm going to go ahead and get out of here.

Right. And this is one of my favorite improvs that I saw because he's, I said like, all right, like four times in a row. Yeah, you're like, all right. With this space. All right. All right. All right. I was like, oh, he's still doing it.

That was funny. It was made me alive. Kev comes. He's there. Kev is looking off of that thing from the past about trying to find something to do. Stay busy. Stay busy. And to be helpful.

Wait a minute. Is he also, do we see for Kev, because we can kind of do these at the same time, is this when he's going through his list of people that he needs to make amends? Yeah. Right? So he's made amends with me. He's made amends with mom, et cetera, et cetera. We don't see the whole list yet, right?

But he just, he comes to find his brother, and he's like, oh, you're doing renovations? Like, perfect. I would love to be of assistance. How can I hope? I got the door, cool, cool, cool. He goes to do Don Lewis's, it's Don Lewis, right? It was her door, fix it, and she says there's a wall

that my husband put up and then he left. And so like, if I can knock this out, that would be great. He's like, you know, I'll knock out the wall. So Randall's, like, doing his repairs. There's the one thing them walking down the hall. Oh, the slow motion gun show. The slow motion gun show, which is the funny part about it is, Justin is much bigger than me.

Like, I'm a fit dude, and I own all my, but. Justin's an inch taller than I am. Like, like, the man is a big man. He's a big man, and he's got big arms. Yeah. So I was like, let me show how Randall, like, feels when he's with his brother, and he, like, looks over at me, like, bro, please, what he talks about?

So, like, Brown tries to bring all the sexy that he can to, like, tearing down a radiator and, like, plunging the toilet. And Justin's in slow motion just, like, with a sledgehammer. And, like, first is Don Lewis just pulls up a seat and just starts watching. And then, like, other neighbors come in and start watching. It's a big event. It's so funny. Yeah.

It's hysterical, right? So Randall thinks that he's fixed things he's calling. his wife. She's like, you know, I hate to tell you, I told you so. You know how Rome wasn't built in the day of this building. And then Lloyd is like, Randall goes back in there. And we did have, I should say, there were roaches, right? I don't like roaches. Oh, who does? Roaches are gross. Yeah, not as well trained as the dog. There was, yeah, not as well trained as the dog at all. So then we have to evacuate the building. Yeah. We had a tent this join so we can get all these things out of here. But before we're able to get everybody out to the hotel, I got to find

my brother because he's still in there. I say, Kev, we got to go, man. They're about to tent the building. He's like, yeah, just give me another 20 minutes. I like to finish what I started. It gives me a sense of accomplishment, like get things done. And they start just having a nice little conversation about their dad and about what it was like for him. Kev is talking about, I remember dad doing similar things to sort of take his mind off of things, what have you. And I can't remember this conversation exactly. So if you remember tidbits, let me know.

But the one thing that I made a note of is Randall was talking about how weird it is to imagine himself as an old man. Yeah. Right? Because, like, we've now reached a place in our lives where we've lived longer without him than we have with him.

And I remember two things. acutely when I was about 21, 22, and I was like, I've now lived half of my life without my dad, and, like, how odd that is. Then I remember turning 45, which is how old he was when he passed. And I was like, wow. I knew when I was 10 that he was young. And then when I was the age that he was, and I was like, he was young, young. You know what I'm saying?

And so the synchronicity of, again, I think part of it's being in a writer's room and then knowing a little bit about my dad because there were just things that were so easy to drop into, right? Like even in parenting, I was like, oh, I got the first 10 years down. I know exactly how to do that

because he did it and it was perfect, right? And now it's like, okay, now I'm the 13-year-old, I'm still like figuring it out, you know what I'm saying? The nine-year-old is like, oh, I still got another year. But it was a really, lovely moment of these brothers bonding with each other and even kev saying like i think you should start to picture it like you're going to be a really cool old guy and he was talking about even when he so so later he goes to the hotel his wife comes in she's like you know you know i've done this before

right and he's like yeah i know and if you would listen to me i would have told you the first thing you got to do is like get something tended because if you start doing reconstruction and there's a bunch of roaches then then you're going to have a problem right he's like i know and then she's She flips the earlier scene. She's like, and then what you were going to say, you're going to apologize for this. And you're going to try to do something to be real charming and get out of it, et cetera, et cetera. And I was like, it sounds way better when you say it than what I do, you know. And then they go, they have a little Randall Beth, lovey-dovey movement.

And then Gerard Morris, Lloyd is like, get a room. He's like, what can I say, man? I love my wife. He's like, no, man, I need a room. He's like, right here, let me go ahead of that real quick. But the writers do like things that the audience may not I don't even know if you clock it week to week

but when you watch it like together they really string it together in such a lovely sort of way that like that thing that he's talking about that there's going to pay off to that it's dumb. Yeah. It's dumb. There's a sense memory in the writing that never leaves the characters.

So they never get disjointed. Like the writer never forgets what has happened or has been said in recent, if not, all of history. Yeah, they're really good about letting the characters carry that with them. Absolutely. Yeah, which is not easy to do. No, I'll say this, because we had, not too long ago, we had Isaac and Elizabeth on the show, our showrunners, or whatnot.

I would talk to most of my artist friends, and they would be like, You guys are really great. You guys are killing it. My friend Terrell Alvin McCraney, who won Oscar for Moonlight, he's like, the writing on your show is ridiculous. And I was like, it really kind of is. Like there's the attention to detail, like listening to Isaac talk about like just little things, right?

Because you address the universal through the specific. And these specific moments, even though you may not recognize that exact specific moment from your life. You recognize a very akin-specific moment that makes you say, like, oh, it unlocks, like, everything. One of the great kind of, in my opinion, injustices in our industry for anybody listening to the podcast now who may have watched the show, who would never follow stuff like this. But in six seasons of television, the writing for this television received one award. Well, this is true. There was one writer who got an award for a script.

There was Vera Herbert, right, for the trip. Yeah. Which is episode 109 when we went to the cabin or what have you. Yeah. And she won NAACP. Yeah, but she also won the Writers Guild. She won both of those. And the Writers Guild.

Okay, she won the NWACP Image Awards, which is funny because... Which is why you call her. I call it Black Vera. Sterling, is she black? She's not black. She's not as far as far. But she has an NAACP award. She does.

She has one more than all the black writers that were on the show. And she has two more awards than any other writer on the show. There you go. Which is, in my opinion, one of the greatest injustices of the running of the show. I would say so. To get a bit more granular about it, you have the latitude to discuss a myriad of options or topics when you're all. on a streamer or on pay cable, right? Because there's no sort of ratings thing

that you have to adhere to in the same sort of way. And there's not a timing issue. This, okay, point number two. We had 42-30. 42-30. 42-30. Every episode. Our scripts usually came in around 50-52 pages,

which made me, I was always gonna go, what, they're gonna cut out of this day. You know, because a page is a minute. Yeah, and go, I don't know what's gonna get cut out of this one. Everything's great. When you were directing, were you like, how are they going on? Same. I was like, what do you lose?

I'm like, this is impossible. Why did you write it this long? And then Dan does his alchemy, and you're like, how did you do that? It makes it happen. So to do 4230, to have to adhere to standards and practices and still come up with something that got the level of attention that we did critically, as well as popularly, there should have been something. Agreed. Agreed. We love you, writers.

Thank you very much for shepherding this whole thing. It's the reason you love the show. Yeah. Should we take a break? Should we come back with our girl? Lena. Wave. Ladies and gentlemen, we're back.

We're very excited to be talking to our special guest. Miss Lena, wait! What's going on, sis? Oh, man, we need a lot of studio. What a family. How are you? Yes. Okay.

Thunderous applause. I'm so good. I want to say this before we get into that. because we were just, we try to get all the cool people that we possibly can on this deadgum show. So it was a small time, but it was a good time, right? I'm mad that I didn't get a chance to work with you personally. First and foremost, it was a bunch of dogs and my sister.

That being said, right? I remember coming up to Lena when Master of Nunn was on, it was season two. Yeah. Her episode was the Thanksgiving episode, right? Yes. Yes. Okay.

Thanksgiving is a big. big deal in the Pearson household as well. I watched this episode, first of all, I loved the show. Like the show was masterful, right? Her episode, I remember coming up to you. I can't remember where we were, L. Dub. Party or something? It was a party or something.

And I was like, and I said it politely, and I'll say it so that people understand, I was like, Negro, this was the best episode of television this year. And she's like, oh, thanks. I was like, no, no, no. Negro, you must understand this is... Listen to me. I was like, I'm not playing around.

Like, this is legitimate, right? And I think because I have an aunt and a cousin who are LGBTQ in my family and I've seen how they had to deal with my grandmother and how there was love on the place of my grandmother, but also just sort of like, this is foreign to me. I can't understand this. So even though I love you and I want to be able to communicate to that,

I'm still just sort of not understanding it. And the way that Angela played it, the way that you wrote it, like, it was so human and so full of all of the complexity that goes into, like, a parent wanting to accept in a child that is different from her and just trying to figure that out. And the child having grace for the parent to be, like, in process, right? Yes, absolutely. So, let me say this. At the Emmys that year.

We'll get to you in a second. We'll get to you in a second. This is what I do. He's me right now. So at the Emmys that year, I was like, you are going to win an Emmy. And when you do, I'm going to be the first person to stand up and clap. Yes. The Emmys were announcing for like best writing for an episode of the show.

Hers was obviously nominated. And they said her name. And I, I, I was. I would, I could not have been happier if it was on camera too. Happier. They cut to you. Wait, did they really? You're in, yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing. I watched it back. It was, it was, I could not have been happier for anybody. She had to make sure that you were the first one to stand up. It was, it was a joyous moment. And so I say all that to just say, thank you for your art. Thank you for now gracing us with your parents. on this podcast and for being a part of our show.

I love you. I love you. That's, I just want to want to say that. I love you too. And, you know, let me tell you this. That's not the only reason why, but when he hit me to come pull up, it was an immediate, yeah. Because I'll never forget that moment with you. And I gotta give a shout to Cindy Shupak also,

a writer, amazing writer of Sex in the City. Yeah. She too came up to me and said the same thing. She's like, you're going to win an Emmy for that episode. Yeah. And you said it to me. Donald Glover also cut touch. He's like, he's like, I was going up against two of his episodes for Atlanta. Yeah.

And obsessed with the episodes in the category, you know, particularly him, you know, always, always chasing Donald. And he told me, he was like, you're going to get the writing joint. You're going to get the right. It was a second person to stand up. He was going to get the writing one. He was like, I was like, I said, well, you better get, you go, you're going to get something. You're going to get something as well. Because you're amazing.

You know, but I just, I just, I just, obviously, I'll never. ever forget that night, you know, you have these moments like that in your career. And it's just, you know, I'm for it to be a historic one for me to be, you know, the first African-American woman to be nominated in that category. And obviously, to take home a trophy with a Z's, my brother, forever. You know, y'all know what it's like, you know, to have that TV family appears, it's cliche, but, you know, these people really do become your family. Yes, ma'am.

And it's forever, you know? And people see us, they look at us. And so thank you for all that you said about the episode. It's an episode that people, you know, Thanksgiving's coming up. It's coming up. That's true. And, you know, I love that we're a part of people's holiday, you know, that people put the episode on. And we have an episode of the Shai, this season, season seven.

Well, no, we did it last episode. We did an episode we called it Thanksgiving. I'm sorry, season six. That was season six. We got season seven coming next year. But season six and the Shai, there's an episode of Thanksgiving. episode. And I asked, can we call it Thanksgiving? They allowed us to do that. So Thanksgiving is just a, you know, it's about family. But family don't always mean blood, you know, as you all

know very well. Family is about those that show up for you and those that accept you. And so I'm really grateful that Thanksgiving, that that episode could just mean something to people because I never would have thought it would become what it did. But I was just grateful to be working with Melina Mitsukas, who directed that episode and did a beautiful job. You know, Kim Whitley, who pulled up and played, you know, my aunt. Yeah. And obviously, Angela Bassett, who is someone I just, you know, I'm forever grateful for before I got to work with her. But now, and she is like a mother.

She is, she'll, we feel like mother-daughter because after that, come on, it's forever bonded. It's happened. Yeah. Okay. You know, y'all know. We know. We know. So, okay, let's get into this as us real quick.

I guess we got to. Come on. That's why I'm here. Why you're here. When you got the invitation to. come and join us on our playground. Like, what did you know about the show at that point? Had you seen any of it?

Like, was it an immediate, yes? Or, like, what's the role? Like, how did it come to you? My homie was writing on the show. She thought of me for it, because she was writing on it. And I did not know that. Yeah, and I definitely knew about the show. And because I was such a TV head.

Like, I, you know, I'm, I mean, I did the documentary about Mary Tyler Moore, because I, you know, studied Dick Van Dyke Show. When I went to, in college, I studied writing, producing, and television. So we had to watch Dick Van Dyke Show. We had to watch, you know, all in the family and, like, really study these shows. But also coming up on, like, you know, ER and the practice. And I came up during a really cool time.

I was getting a chance to watch West Wing in real time and all that kind of stuff. And Mad Men in Real Time. And so, and sopranos, I'm very blessed. And so when This Is Us came about, I remember, you know, just being in the the industry and sort of hearing about it and hearing about the concept and hearing about the cast and just sort of thinking, if that works, what a miracle and what a joy it would be in terms of what we need to see on television. And it could have been hokey, but because of you all, and I think the chemistry and the lack of fear to go into really complicated places,

people really, especially your father's story, I mean, people I think really kind of were like moved in a way that they were with Grey's Anatomy, like network television that was given us something that wasn't, you know, you just fold your laundry and let it play in the background. It's always exciting when something comes along that just grabs everybody. And so when I got the opportunity, I was like, yeah, yeah, I want to be a part of that because shows like community and like, and like the searches would kind of come along. Like, this is us was one of those shows. shows in the industry, people were kind of whispering and sniffing around going, like, what's that about to be? And so, yeah, I was just honored to come on and do something in an episode. People will hit me. People are, oh, I'm watching this is us. I was watching it. I was watching it. The fact that people still hit me about it, it's like, yeah, people are just rewatching the show, which is such a rarity. I always say true success of art is something that people want to go back and revisit. Yeah. Sure. You know, so when you watch them shows,

like, I was watching the reruns of that. Oh, then that's a special show. For you to go back and watch something you've already seen. We watch Long Under SVU all the time. It's like, yeah, I don't matter. I've seen this episode 18 times, but I'm going to sit and watch it to the end. That's a special type of energy, you know? And so y'all have that. And so just

truly congratulations for being a part of something that's timeless but was also timely. Thank you. Yeah, man. So truly, I was honored to be a part of it. As we rewatched the show, we've realized that our show is populated by legends. Yeah. And

And yourself included, when I re-watched this episode, I was like, that's right. Lean Away came and did an episode of our show. That's insane. Everything that was going on in your life at that moment. And my knowledge of you, you were like a legend out of the gate for me. Like as soon as I saw you, I was like, this is the, and I know you just mentioned, you studied writing,

production at Columbia, right? Columbia College in Chicago. That's right. Come on, though. And you've been running the shy for seven seasons. Seven seasons. Wow, congrats. Thank you.

At what point, because this I don't know in my knowledge of you, at what point did acting performing also become part of the game for you? You know what? It was never part of the plan. It was part of God's plan. It wasn't part of mine. I always wanted to be behind the scenes, you know. I wanted to write television.

Obviously, a different world had a huge impact on me, Home and Grab Productions. I remember watching that show and just knowing I really wanted to be a television writer. That's what a different world in Cosby Show. That's what those shows really meant for me. I was like, I want to write TV. Never really had the performance buck, but I've always been a ham. My mom would call me a ham when I was a young kid.

But I think that's because I watched so much television, you do the thing that you do is like you sort of watching TV and you repeat it back and you kind of say lines. You know, obviously with some shows like Martin, you know, I always tell Martin Lawrence, I'm like, man, I get my personality from you, you know, like, get the step in. And like, you know, like, you know, like, get out of, you know, like, what is it? You know, like, watching him on deaf comedy jam, like, just how he would, like, vibe and stuff like that, definitely picked up on things like that. And so when I went into, to, okay, so the acting thing, first of all, I got to give credit to Allison Jones, a phenomenal casting director who saw something I had written and asked to meet with me. And so I went in and sat with her.

And she's a, I mean, iconic. She casts Veepe. She cast freaks and geeks, bridesmaids. She's responsible for so many careers. And so I went to her all guys like, why don't want to be with a casting director? I'm like, I'm not casting anything. But she was like, she just wanted to meet you. And so I went in there and saw all these like, you know, posters of like these iconic shows that she cast.

And I sat down with her. And we just had a conversation. We just talked. And I was talking about many different TV shows that I liked. And maybe I mentioned Maude or something. and Rhoda and all this and stuff. And she was sort of, I think, a little like, what, okay? And then she was like, have you ever thought about acting?

And I was like, no, I have not. And she was like, well, would you mind if I brought you in for some stuff? And I was like, sure. Okay. And she did. She brought me in for some things. I booked a, like, one couple lines on one of my favorite shows of all time called The Comeback.

Yeah. And so I got you. Yes. Yeah, okay. Lisa Cudrow, Michael Patrick King. Right. I watched that first season and became upset. I was like, what is this?

Who is this? Who is Valerie Cherish? What is this? And so I was one of those people that had the DVD and listened to the commentary and then because people were so obsessed 10 years later they did a season two. That's right. That's right. And so when I got a call,

they were like, you know, I don't know if you want to go in for the comeback. I said, do I want to go in for the comeback? Yes, of course. What? The comeback at the comeback. So I go in and that's like, it's just taped. And then she's like, okay, Michael Patrick King's director's episode, he'll look at it. I was like, oh, Michael Patrick King,

who wrote Texan City and is an icon. She was like, yeah, he's directing and he'll see if he'll look at the tape and see. He picked me. I come in, I play a journalist that's giving value shares a hard time. And I even asked him if I could kind of adjust the line. He was like, yeah, yeah, that sounds better. I said, okay. Now he and I are parking spots are next to each other.

That's right. Let's go. I love that. But, yeah, that was the beginning. And so, and then I got a call about like this untitled Zizunzari project. And they want to go in and I went and sat down with Aziz and Alan Yang. and just talk to him because Aziz was like, I don't want to just audition people.

He's like, I want to meet people first. Yeah. And if they cool, you know. That's very British of him, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I went to his house, met with him, and it felt like a writer meeting, because I was used to TV writer meetings.

Sure. And I was just myself. I had just fallen in love. I was like telling that story and just talking shit. And then I got, like, okay, he wants you audition. And I was like, okay, So I go in and I read with them Yeah

And it was just It was just so natural It was just if we've been like talking forever Yeah Wow And they were laughing and reacting And I was like, is that I was supposed to go? And and then I was just like

You know, I left And I got called in the test And and then he was like Do you want to come and like do this show in New York And like play my friend? the show didn't even have a title. And I was just like, yeah, man, because I was obsessed with Parks of Rec.

Yeah. I loved him. Of course. And so, and it was really like, and Michael Sherr was a producer on it, but it was almost like Michael Scher said, okay, these kids go do their own thing. And, yeah, just went to New York and started doing that.

And then when it came out and people started watching it, that was really the beginning. And so that's really how the acting career sort of began. And then tell them, if you will, real quick, tell them what the first movie that you ever did was. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So the first movie, look at Sterling.

Okay. My first movie ever is because of Steven Spielberg. Steven Spielberg cast me and Ready Player 1. That's her first fucking movie. Oh, I'm sorry. So then you stop doing movies after that. Quit. Because it doesn't get any better than that.

Anyways, Lena, it's been nice talking to you. Thanks for coming on. No, no, no, you're great. Everything you do is great. No, we get it. Cool, cool, cool. She also, me and Lena, me and Lena were up for a voiceover campaign for AT&T. And I was there like, yeah, you made it to the final two, et cetera. And I was like, it's going to be a cash count.

I'm going to be making money off this drug forever. Yeah, yeah. It goes to L-dub. They're like, they just felt more relatable. I was like, God, that's true. No, that's because you sold a distinguished gentleman. You know, you have to say you're an Oscar nominee. Come on.

You know, you can't be doing AT&T commercials. You're out here that's different. Can't relate to that. Okay. Wait, we should say something about the show. You're working with Chrissy and the dogs. And that's it. Just tell us about the day.

It's like because we got to work together, every time we and Chrissy see each other, you would feel like we went to camp together. It's just like, it was just such a fun day. hey, and just it was a very emotional scene obviously as people know, you know, know. And I just love seeing her out in the world

and just giving her hugs and being like, hey, what's up? Good to see you. Are you a dog person? Yeah. I have got two pups. I got two dogs. You do? Okay. I do. I felt that. I felt it in the scene. I was like, she loves dogs. Yeah, yeah. They're not here with me right now.

They're in Los Angeles. I'm in London. We miss them. But we don't people that like we get the pictures sent Like, you know, video sent to us, you know, when we're away. It's, that's the kind of party it is because you miss the pups when you're gone. Yeah. But you got to travel. You don't want to schlep them everywhere all the time.

But, but yeah. And I had a dog, I think, at the time where I was about to get a dog. You know, so it was just exciting to be on set with, like, dogs. And I was, what more could I ask for? This is awesome. Okay, this was like one of the best conversations we could have. We talked a little bit about this, but it was really about just the fact that we got this woman on the show who we love and adore and appreciate it, right?

L. Dub, is there anything you want to say about what's going on in your world right now? What people, what's up and coming, what you want people to look out for? Talk to us real quick. Okay. My people would kill me if I didn't plug my own podcast. You know, I'm calling it a podcast. Technically, I don't even think of it as a podcast, but it is technically a podcast. It's called Legacy Talk with Lena Waite.

I love it. Yes. And we've dropped two episodes so far. But basically the concept is it's really conversations, this dialogue, which this has been a lovely dialogue with conversation, which I love. But I, you know, people were trying to give me to do it. And I was like, well, what's the intention? You know, what are we doing?

And they were like, well, you can talk to who you want to talk to. And I was like, okay, why don't I talk to black women who have legacies that have impacted mine? And they were like, okay, cool. And so we got six episodes so far. We want to continue to do them. So stay tuned. But the first episode was Cheryl Lee Ralph, who was an icon, amazing, the original Dream Girl, our original Dina. And we said I had a lovely conversation that episode is out right now.

It's such a wonderful listen. I had such a wonderful time talking to her. And the second episode that came out was with Gina Prince Bythwood. And her name may not be super familiar to some, but she's behind some of your favorite movies, like Loving Basketball. She did Woman King. Yeah. She did The Old Guard that was on Netflix with Charleston. like she's phenomenal writer-director, Secret Life of Bees,

which was the first thing I worked on. But I used to be her assistant back in the day. I was her assistant for like two years. No way. Yes. You are a part of her legacy. Boom. Yo, that's all I could ever want is to be a part of her legacy.

So that episode is out. And then coming up next is Mara Brock Akeel. Okay. Who created girlfriends and the game and being Mary Jane. I was an assistant on girlfriends in his last season. Were you really? So I got to, and Mara is the reason she got me that job working for Gina. She's like, you need an assistant, you should get Lena.

And that's how that journey began. And then after Mara, we got Jada Pinkett Smith. Okay. She used to sit down. Very cool. You turned to the red table around, okay. Look, look, you know, her legacy had a huge impact on me. Growing up watching Ministers Society, obviously she was on a different world, a low-down, dirty shame, you know, seeing her in Matrix.

She did a voice in Madagascar as a hippo. That's right. She's had such a wonderful career. And so we talk about that. And then Jennifer Lewis, who helped raise me. Oh, Lord. She was like my mother before she was, you know, and she, we talk about her glorious career as well, which films like, what's love got to do with it?

And she was also in a different world as Dean Dorothy Dandridge, Davenport. You're on my list, you know. And obviously, we're turning a really wonderful voice performance and Princess and the Frog. And so, and then, and last but not least, Debbie Allen, who is my North Star and someone who has become my, oh, everybody, everybody. She gets mentioned in all these interviews. So she's last. She's the finale, as she should be. And so basically, I was also a big fan of a show called Inside the Actor's Studio.

Oh, yeah. They used to come on Bravo. And I learned a lot watching that show because even though I, it's funny because I did not have aspirations of being an actor, but because I had aspirations of being a writer, I was really curious to hear from actors what they were looking for in scripts. And so that way oftentimes, you know, James Lipton would often ask some of the greats, like, what are you looking for when you're trying to pick a project? So my, you know, I'm like 16, 17 watching it thinking like, okay, I want to write something that a great actor would want to do or want to play.

That's a big reason why I always tell people like Daniel Kalalia cast himself and Queen of Slim. He read the script and emailed me and said, I am Slim. I am Slim. Really? And I was like, okay. And it really, like, the fact that Daniel was like, he read it before Molina Masukas. He was like, I want to be in this movie. And I was like, all right, okay, I did not see you with Slim, but now I can't stop thinking

about you as Slim. Remember I called Malina, I was like, yo, Daniel Kalalia hit me and said he's Slim. And she was like, I don't think, I don't know. I was like, just meet with him and she did and it's on the trifecta. So that came from me, watch Inside the Actors Studio and just wanting to, and also Reggie Rock Bythwood said, make sure you write characters that actors can't wait to play, even if it's like a small two-liner or something like that make an actor like I don't want to do that two lines

so anyway I say it's to say I would watch himself at the actor's studio and I when James Lipton never picked a successor people would always say what happens when you die he's like so does the show and I would always feel depressed about that because I was like we need somebody to sit and talk to just performers and actors that have done really great things

and get a sense of it and so I don't talk to these people about their personalized internet I'm asking Shirley Roth, what was the audition process like for Dreamgirls? Okay. You know, asking Jada Pinkett Smith, how much of Peaches was on the page and how much of it was you? Yeah. You know, and so, and asking Jennifer Lewis, how do you play the mother of Tina Turner a way that you do? Because it's such a complicated woman.

Especially when you're like 70 years. They're like the same age. Exactly, too. Yeah, they were very close in age. Yeah. But, you know, and I'm just asking Jennifer, like, like, how do you, how do you even step into that role? Like, how do you do that? You're, you know, but also then, like, in Poetic Justice.

She plays Tupac's mom. And she's only in there for, like, a scene. But she's so phenomenal. She's so amazing. And we got to ask, like, what was we, like, working with Tupac? Like, what was that? And so, and a lot of times, like, even Jada, like, it's all career stuff. It's all, like, talking me about Jason's lyric, talking about the inkwell, you know?

And so it was just, that's what these conversations are. And I think people may not know what to expect coming into them. Yeah. Because we're not just talking about, oh, talking about, like, where did you get inspired, when you want to be an actor? to know, we really are talking about process and we're talking about where they were in their lives when they were doing certain projects

and how that impacted their performances. So I hope people check out Legacy Talk with Lena Waite. I think it's really fantastic. And also, I'm just, I've written my first play and I'm, you know, just going to, I think, step into the theater space. What's the play, homie? What's the play? I'm not going to tell you the title of it,

but it's a three-hander. Okay. And it's about, you know, just love, and it's a bit of a love triangle, but it's something that I'm really trying to play with form and I'm going to be in it. So it was my first time, except when I'm talking about my actions,

I mean, like, I am so scared and freaked out, but theater actors are a different kind of situation. And so I've been in film, I've been in TV. In a lot of ways. And I love both, but I've never been on the stage and had to say everything. And so I'm just, but that's the, that's the pool I'm jumping into Nets, it's theater.

You're going to love it. You're a force. It's going to be such a rush. In every way. I grew up on your music. Don't get me going, okay? I remember seeing, I remember when music videos was a thing

and we was watching your music videos. Alina, no. Oh, my gosh. Okay. And I appreciate you for being an ally. I'll say you out there, you know, campaigning and trying to, you know, help get this thing going. You're very much appreciated.

You know, on the front lines. Always. We do what we can. We got to make sure we're showing love for folks that are showing up. And so it's much appreciated because we can't, we can't get ahead without linking arms with each other. That is. You've seen a march on Washington.

Go back and look at that footage. It's all of us. And that's what this is us to me represented. That's what it continues to represent. It's that that we really are family. Yeah. We're in this together. Truly.

Yeah. I think that's... You are just phenomenal. Of course. I could like talk to you all day. Just listen to you guys. This is... Thank you for your time.

Thank you for your time. Thank you for you. Thank you for asking me to come on. It's the truth. It's the truth. Enjoy London. Enjoy life. I can't wait for the play.

Yeah. Listen. If there's a part for you, boy, holla at me. Sterling just said, I am play. I am play. I am play. Come back. I'm play.

What's the play called? I'll let you know. I'll let you know this call. We'll get it together. But yeah, man, we did a reading in Baltimore. We're going to do a reading in January. So stay tuned. We will.

We love you. In the vein of actors, the actor's studio, what is your favorite curse word? There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, Classics. Lena, we love you, sister. Thank you, Lena.

I love y'all. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da-da-da-da-dum. That was us.