That Was Us - Chat Was Us | Caregiving

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

This week on That Was Us…we’re back with another Chat Was Us! This time, inspired by the many caregiving stories throughout This Is Us, we’re tackling a topic that touches millions of families: what does it really mean to care for someone? Joined by caregiving advocate and storyteller Lydia Storie, hosts Mandy, Sterling, and Chris explore the realities of caregiving, why seeing these experiences represented on screen matters, and how storytelling can help people feel less alone.In this episode, the conversation covers: * Why caregiving is so often invisible—and why representation can change that * The research behind This Is Us’s caregiving storylines and how they impacted viewers * How seeing characters like Rebecca, Randall, Miguel, and Kate navigate care can open up conversations in our own lives * Rebecca taking agency over her end-of-life planning * Randall and Miguel’s honest conversation about needing a break from caregiving * Kate’s experience as both a parent and a caregiver * The importance of cultural authenticity in Miguel’s family story * Why storytelling can sometimes be more powerful than education or traditional PSA campaigns * The idea that there are more than 130 million people in the U.S. living in the thick of care * How seeing your own experience reflected on screen can create a powerful sense of “I’m not alone” * The parasocial connection audiences develop with characters—and why that can make conversations about care feel more personal * How we can change the way we value aging, disability, caregiving, eldercare, paid leave, and care in our culture Resources mentioned in this episode: just changed it to this: https://careconversations.com/#join-the-conversation Survey link for people to tell us about their experiences and inform a more supportive system for care the U.S. wearehfc.org/thisisus: The stars of This Is Us discuss the significance of putting Alzheimer’s and caregiving into the spotlight. https://learcenter.s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/caregiving_thisisus_lear_cag.pdf: Audience impact research from Norman Lear Center -- which analyzed how This Is Us S6 affected viewers' opinions and attitudes about care And a friendly reminder, you can catch new episodes of That Was Us every Monday, a day early, exclusively on Hulu. Available on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts on Tuesdays like usual! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Thanks to Article for sponsoring this podcast! Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://www.article.com/discount/twu and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. - Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://Quince.com/twu. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. - Right now save up to 30% on mattresses and up to 35% on everything else when you go to https://Casper.com. - Explore viral bestsellers and products of healthier hair of ALL types from Bask and Lather. Go to https://baskandlatherco.com. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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so you can focus on the big stuff, like your small business. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin. gang welcome back to another installment of chat was us where we take a break from the rewatch and dive into a topic inspired by the themes of this is us today we're talking about something that touches nearly every family at some point in life caregiving that's right whether it's raising children caring for aging parents supporting a spouse through illness or helping a loved one

through a difficult season caregiving is one of the most universal experiences we have and one of the least talked about. This is us explored caregiving in so many forms and ultimately helped millions of viewers feel seen. Today, we are joined by Lydia's story to talk about why those stories mattered, how they changed real conversations, and what we can all learn about caring for one another. Welcome, Lydia. Thank you so much for having me. It's so good to me. Welcome. We get the shade of couch. I'm excited. I'm so cozy on this couch. I feel like Chris has been having this. You have loomed large in our unconscious.

She's coming. She's coming. She's coming. Because it was, we crossed paths. Yes. I guess two years ago now? Like about two and a half years ago.

Two and a half years ago. I was at Sundance with the movie and I wandered into this. At Sundance, they set up all of these artist spaces where people are doing conversations and Q&As and all of these things. And I walked in and I got a. cup coffee and I was stood in the back and I was listening to what this panel was talking about. I looked down at the table and there's a picture of Mandy Moore. What is she doing here?

And they had had a handout and I'll just say what it was. You were discussing a survey that the Norman Lear Center had done with a thousand adults and they had analyzed social media to compile a presentation called this is what art is supposed to do. how a caregiving storyline on This Is Us helped audiences feel seen. Yes, that's right. And that's how we met. Yeah, I was moderating this panel where we were sort of sharing for their first time publicly the results of a research project that carrying across generations, which is the organization I work for, engaged the USC Norman Lear Center's Media Impact Project to really look at the effect that

the show, and particularly the final season, season six of this is our. us. And an impact campaign that we were fortunate enough to collaborate on with NBC and our friends at Hilarity for Charity to really amplify the representation that the show gave to family caregiving. So this research study really wanted to kind of analyze how the storylines impacted attitudes for viewers and then how the impact campaign that we produced led to different kinds of engagement and conversation online. And it was really incredible to be validated in our assumptions that it was a very, very meaningful representation and a really meaningful opportunity for people to actually understand their own experiences differently, relate to other people's

experiences differently, and also feel comfortable actually sharing more publicly what they'd been going through in their own lives. So that's a big deal. And we had cross paths too. You reminded me. Thank you so much that like towards the end of the show, Chrissy and John and I sat down and had a conversation with your CEO or your co-founder. Your co-founder. Yes. As well as Lauren Miller Rogan and Seth Rogen to really kind of focus on the honestly groundbreaking representation of caregiving across the entire series, but in particular that final season. Yeah. So we posted that content online and reached about 3 million people.

with it. So thank you for doing that. It's our pleasure to continue the conversation. When we met, I was like, we're starting a podcast. We should have a conversation. And now here we are in season six to discuss. I just really admire the tenacity that you had that idea and you've stuck with it for two years. That's serious. Sully is the reason, the entire reason that we are here doing this podcast to begin with.

So it's not uncommon and unheard of to think that Chris is just, he has a vision and he sees it through. Yeah. The show has tackled a lot of subject matter. that maybe isn't popular subject matter for television. Yeah. Because there's not really the context for especially a caregiving storyline like this with Rebecca and and Miguel. I mean, there's the whole other side of the caregiving storyline that focuses on Miguel. Yes.

And the position he has taken him, the position he's taken on in the family, the responsibility that he's taken on and how difficult that was for him as a character in our show. Yeah, and it was really important, too, because we've understood for a long time that many, many people in this country, so there are about 130 million people who are kind of in the thick of care right now. If you take parents, anyone who's caring for an older adult or disabled family member, the care workers, and disabled people themselves or anybody who needs to take paid leave. So if you're kind of encompassing that entire spectrum of the population, it's quite a lot. And of those people, men often feel the most isolated because our sort of cultural norms and our gender norms in the society, like make it seem such that like it's something that women do.

So if you're a man and you're finding yourself in this role, it's even more taboo, so to speak, to like kind of be open about it or if you're having a hard time ask for help. So that was a really, like, incredible and important, like, representation. And the study that we were sharing at Sundance actually saw that in the key episodes that we looked at where care was a dominant theme of these four to five episodes, every one of them spiked the conversation on social media about the topic of caregiving. But that episode, in particular, that really dove into Miguel, drove almost six times more. Wow. online. Yeah. So pretty incredible. It's wild to think of the impact. Right. Yeah. But it's like the, I feel like our writers are especially so nuanced and so sort of like targeted in terms of like, like they know what

they're doing and they do their research. And it's like I think everything is handled with kid gloves. It's handled very, I don't know, responsibly. I don't know how else to say that. Yeah. We've talked about it a lot on the show about how these subjects. are hard, they're not that hard to talk about. It's just hard to find the right context or time to talk about them. So a lot of people in there, when caregiving is their reality and they're on all the time, who are they going to talk to about it? When are they going to talk about it? When is a, when is a a right moment? A right time to bring it up in social conversation. And the show actually gave that context.

And it's so fascinating to me because social media, at this point, we've analyzed how it can detract. We've analyzed how it can harm. We've analyzed how addictive it can be. We've analyzed all these things. But it can also provide this opportunity for people to connect. Yeah. When something like this comes into the zeitgeist. That's the original intent, right?

No, that's actually exactly what they all told us it was about, right? Yeah. connection and community. And I think in this case it definitely is true. And the other, you know, very important part of it, though, is that there was a, the story itself, the show itself was that, like, catalyst that, like, prompted people to have an opportunity to, like, reflect on this and engage with each other about something that's been, you know, very much a part of their lives.

But culturally, in this country, we've been sort of conditioned to overlook it as, as, like, an issue, right? Like it's just something that we do. It's part of your family responsibility or it's part of your, you know, just kind of the fabric of life that is happening at home. And so all of those things combined kind of tell us or signal to us collectively that it's not really like anything that we need to think about or worry about. But in fact, most of those 130 million people out there are having a really hard time managing it all. And so to prompt conversation and to prompt awareness that this is not something that you or I or any of us are going through just by ourselves. And in fact, it's affecting a lot of people helps us start to see that this is maybe actually more of a social challenge that we need to think about.

It's a priority in our lives that we could actually, you know, support better and have different like resources built up for. Amen. This is something that's not just like a job to you. I was reading your bio. You got skin in the game. you want to talk a little bit about your own personal? Yeah, what's funny. I was reflecting on this on my way over. I came into this role, having been a fan of This Is Us for five years.

And I was so excited to join the team and to see that this particular final season was like really diving deep into the topic. It had become personal to me in 2019. I became a mom. And at the time I was working, I was working inside entertainment. I'm a reformed creative executive where I always wanted to work on storytelling and champion writers and projects that were helping us to actually see each other in new ways. I think that the power of entertainment, the power of TV, the power of film, I'm a girl from a super small town in the middle of this country, and stories have always made me more curious

and excited about learning about the world. I've approached my entire career, really believing that that story brings us together. if we allow it. Yeah. But I became a mom. I'm sorry, this is a roundabout answer, but I became a mom in 2019. Right at the time we were starting to hear about the COVID-19 pandemic,

I came back from my leave with my son. The same day that everything in L.A. and most of the country sort of shut down for good. Is it March 19? March 13th, March 13th, 2020. March 13th, 2020. We get the news that no, but he's going back to the office for, you know, two weeks or two years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also had my five-month-old baby assessed for developmental progress, and he was diagnosed with global developmental delay. And so right when everything was shutting down, I also had to start figuring out how I get him supportive services to help him in his motor skills and his cognitive development and his speech, well, eventually speech. So it became really personal to me in that way,

where I was not just a mom. which is a whole caregiving journey of itself. But it was a mom to a kid who needed additional needs. And those needs were not actually readily available during a pandemic shutdown. Yeah. I didn't have any child care. I continued working full time. And I came around to wanting to put him in daycare when the time felt safe, right?

About a year later, only to find out that COVID-19 decimated the child care industry. It's already, like, thin, but it was really, just like devastating for that industry in L.A. in particular, but across the country. And so I did not have any child care until he was almost 20 months old while working full time the whole time. So it was really, yeah, it became extremely personal. And I always say like I kind of ran right into my like care cliff very unexpectedly. Like most people do. We don't talk about it and we don't prepare for it. We don't think it's going to affect us in any measurable way until. it's the reality. Yeah. So I was so lucky to kind of start putting myself out there and talking to

friends. Someone told me about caring across generations who was looking for somebody who had entertainment storytelling experience to come and join the team to kind of be a bridge. So right now, my job is really working within the realm of storytelling to help us shift the way that we relate to, think about see and value the role of care in all of our lives. So somehow, after all of that experience I found like sort of the perfect place to bring it all together. Yeah, exactly. The melding of all the world. More that was us after this short break.

One thing that this is us did really well. Well, it did many things really well. Let me just say so. You're looking at three of them. We show our certain spaces hold memories, kitchens, living rooms, front porches, all of the places where life happens. I think that's actually why people connect to staying in someone. home when they travel. It feels personal, lived in, like there are real stories there.

Yeah, man. Families traveling together are usually looking for spaces where they can slow down, cook together, hang out late talking, make memories of their own. Which is why listing your space on Airbnb can feel meaningful on top of it being a great way to earn extra cash. You are sharing a space that already means something to you and giving other people a chance to experience those same kinds of moments. And listen, if hosting feels overwhelming, that's understandable, but Airbnb's co-host network makes it easier than ever. You can hire a vetted local co-host to help manage everything. If something goes wrong, if like a light bulb blows out or something, you know. Internet service is gone. Internet service goes down. You don't want to spend your time away having to manage those things. That's why you get a host.

Don't call me. Call that co-host. A co-host can help manage reservations, handle guest communication, and even provide on-site support. So instead of worrying about logistics while you're away, you're away, you can stay focused on enjoying where you are. If you are interested in hosting, but you could use a little help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I want to tell you about these basque and leather products I've been using.

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kitchens, living rooms, front porches, all of the places where life happens. I think that's actually why people connect to staying in someone's home when they travel. It feels personal, lived in. Like there are a real story. there. Yeah, man, families traveling together are usually looking for spaces where they can slow down, cook together, hang out late talking, make memories of their own. Which is why listing your space on

Airbnb can feel meaningful on top of it being a great way to earn extra cash. You are sharing a space that already means something to you and giving other people a chance to experience those same kinds of moments. And listen, if hosting feels overwhelming, that's understandable. But Airbnb's co-hosts network makes it easier than ever. You can hire a vetted local co-host to help manage everything. If something goes wrong, if like a light bulb blows out or something, you know, internet service is gone. Internet service goes down.

You don't want to spend your time away having to manage those things. That's why you get a host. Don't call me. Call that co-host. A co-host can help manage reservations, handle guest communication, and even provide on-site support. So instead of worrying about logistics while you're away, you can stay focused on enjoying where you are.

If you are interested in hosting, but you could use a little help find a co-host at a Airbnb.com slash host. Is there anything from a personal experience that you would share with caregivers in terms of like strategies for coping, enduring, and I say this on a personal level, my, my mother's been diagnosed with ALS for the past eight years. And we all sort of collect, I'm my brother and sister and myself all collectively help, but my brother's really the person who runs point at home. And we're privileged enough to have resources to have two nurse practitioners with mom throughout the day and eight-hour shifts. But he sort of manages that. And if somebody doesn't

show up, he fills in, what have you. And oftentimes I feel as if my man is pouring from an empty cup and is like on the brink. And so I'm just curious from your own personal experience, like the best practices, like how to take care of yourself as you are taking care of others. Yeah, that's so important and so challenging. I don't know if I'm any kind of expert at this, but certainly something that I realized in coming into this work, we think a lot about our storytelling in terms of representation, but I think storytelling in terms of like our interactions and the norms that we have as a culture. we're not a culture that prides ourselves on asking for help or admitting we need it in the first place.

I think that might be the first step, honestly, is when you find yourself at that place where you are pouring from an empty cup or you're just overstretched understanding that it's okay to tap out and you're not, you know, messing up by doing that, like you can't actually. I mean, I think this is true of a parent too, right? Do we all have kids? We do indeed, yeah. We all have kids. So you know that they're very demanding as well. And one of the first things that people told me in becoming a mom is like, make sure you also like take care of yourself, rest when they rest, all of that.

I mean, sure. Very well. Maybe that's a possible advice. But I think just to go back to like, we need to like actually remove this stigma that it's shameful to need other people. Right. We all need other people. It's care takes a village. It's amazing that you have.

that village. It is. And it's amazing that actually the show modeled what it can look like to have a village, not just a family, but also professional workers in the mix. And that is something that more people need, and we would love to support people getting more of that. So, but I think just recognizing what you need and asking for it and allowing people in to help when you can is a huge step. Amen. Amen. On a macro level, what are some examples of caregiving that people don't realize are caregiving. You know what I mean? Like, I think you, so many takeaways from your work is that care can look so many different ways. I'm just curious to like expand upon that. Yeah. And actually I'm coming from like storytelling and

my work as an entertainment executive, I was always like thinking about what are the stories that we're not telling? What's the white space out there? Like that that feels like what audiences are always gravitating to like, you know. So when I came into this work, I actually approached it in the same way. Like, what are we actually seeing? And like, what are all of these experiences people are having that aren't showing up? Honestly, anyone managing to balance work or try to balance work and care responsibilities or care needs at all? Like, we're not seeing that a lot in our culture. We don't recognize things like shopping for somebody for their groceries or picking up their medications, not always thinking about that as caregiving. We're not thinking about things like

helping people with their technology or their financial management as care or helping to pay for services as a form of care. Sure. Right? A lot of people, especially living in Los Angeles, a lot of people have moved here from other parts of the country. I've met a lot of people in the same here. Other people in the industry who are kind of like, well, I'm not really a caregiver because I just send money back home to help my brother do this, right? And that is also care. So, you know, just understanding that we all have a different way that we're contributing to it is important too. Are there other pieces of media that you can provide as examples that you think has done an excellent job of portraying caregiving?

Maybe examples of caregiving that aren't often depicted in media? So I don't mean to make this at the Sterling Show. But, yeah, American Fiction was another film that we actually collaborated with. Oh, yeah. Because the one thing that doesn't come up very often is the challenge people face affording care, whether that is for, you know, facility-based care or the help of professional caregivers in the home or even affording child care. We really wanted to, like, lift up the fact that the story did address that.

Sure. And overall, I thought that was just such a one-year-old. wonderful example of, you know, again, the, like, more nuanced approach to how the family is, like, interacting and planning and coming together and trying to kind of figure out this, like, sort of sudden. It's funny because, like, that's not what that movie was marketed about. Right, right. It's about a lot of things.

But it is part of it. The driver underneath the kind of big, absurd sort of thing that is the, like, novel that he's writing is all to pay for the care. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, but that's. But that sort of subtle, like underlying part of the story is also what, like, that nuance is what makes it so interesting because you're not, you never want to hit people over the head, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. So obviously, this is on my mind because we're sitting here. But there are many. And in fact, I've been lucky to be an executive producer on a forthcoming film that is called Take Me Home. It just premiered at Sundance this year. Liz Sargent, the filmmaker, was on that panel that you saw, Chris. So coming full circle again to them. moment. It's really incredible to see the response to this. It's the story, it's fictional,

but it's largely inspired by sort of the realities of their family. Her parents adopted a number of kids, many of whom had disabilities. And so this story is centered on a disabled woman in her 30s, who's also a caregiver to her aging parents. And then when some sort of difficult things strike, the question comes up, like, what is her future going to be? And who gets to decide that? And so it's all about her kind of like figuring out the next phase of her life. And it's funny and heartbreaking and joyful and, you know, really real at an alternating times. But we have gotten such an incredible response and it will be coming to theaters this fall. So, yeah, it's just like those kinds of things, like there are more and more stories like where people are bringing their own lived

experiences and perspectives and like it's just like weaving them in in a way that feels really organic and um authentic and i think that really resonates with viewers yeah you actually created a tool for storytellers who want to talk about this in an enlightened or well-educated uh fashion and i was realizing that even out even outside of being a storyteller this is valuable information for anyone to have as far as understanding what caregivers go through or what is involved in caregiving. Can you talk about that tool? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it goes back to your question, Mandy, about like, how do we understand, like,

what are some things that we're not thinking about? It's called the Care Inclusion Playbook. It was designed initially with screenwriters and other entertainment and creative storytellers in mind, but we are actually finding it to have application outside of that space. So Caring to Cross Generations was founded in 2011 to really, address the sort of systemic sort of gaps in care in this country. And we do that by bringing people together across their diverse experiences with caring for older adults, disabled people, needing paid leave, becoming parents, or providing professional care work. So we kind of build

that community. We transform cultural norms and representation, as we've been speaking about. And then we also advocate for policy solutions. And so I say that to say that we've actually, ever since the beginning of the organization, have run a program where we train caregivers in their own community, to become leaders and advocates in their own communities. And year after year, we turn out cohorts of what we call our care fellows. And this is a space where we're hearing from people

about what's going on in their lives, in addition to other focus groups and types of gatherings that we've hosted over the past 15 years. So from all of these people, from these events, we know what's going on in people's lives. People write to us all the time about what they're seeing in the culture, what they're not seen in the culture. And so across all of that, we've analyzed what is missing.

And so the Care Inclusion Playbook is kind of the answer to that. Like, here is what is missing. These are not real people's stories, but they're amalgamations of common themes that we're hearing for people all the time for the past 15 years. And what are some examples? of the glaring gaps. Yeah, so I think I arranged it, you know, kind of through different storytelling elements. So different types of characters, different types of challenges, different types of stakes.

And also, I think, world building, which I'll come back to. But we're not thinking oftentimes about siblings or children who are caregivers, right? We see a lot of adult children who are caring for aging parents. Obviously, that's showed up in this show. But one thing that also showed up in this show are, parent caregivers, parents have disabled children or children with additional needs. We don't see a lot of caregivers of color, to be honest, like family caregivers of color, and we don't see a lot of professional care workers on TV.

So these are different types of characters and profiles that we could actually elevate more in our culture and through the kind of work that we do in media and, you know, storytelling and beyonds. Challenges, a couple of things I already mentioned, challenges affording care. I just read a statistic. I'm not going to get the exact number right, but it's absurd, actually, the percentage of an annual average family income that child care takes right now.

It's like 50% or something. It's crazy. But there are challenges such as not being able to find care. Many, many people who actually qualify for state-based support can't get it because there aren't enough people providing it. The waiting lists are enormous. for in-home care workers or home and community-based services.

It's getting worse due to federal cuts to Medicaid. And yeah, so these are some of the things that we just, we don't really think about. But I also think that, especially when it comes to creativity and art and when we are able to kind of craft our fictional worlds, we have the opportunity to model different opportunities, different worlds, different solutions, right? And one of the things I think we talked about when we filmed with you and Chrissy and John at the end of the run was the episode where Rebecca sits down and has her family sit down and say, let's talk about how this is going to go. Most people have not had a conversation about their future or their end-of-life care planning. And we can use story to actually make that a little bit more normal, give people a model.

Yeah, it doesn't have to be so revolutionary. Like, it can, yeah, it can just be that kind of, you know, element. I remember the show, the show actually sparked in our, for Rachel and myself, that conversation on end of life wishes. Yeah. We got all of that, all of those documents in place. We put people in place. We told them our plans. We told them what we wanted.

And then all of our friends started doing the same. And we all started compiling. We had like a full file with like. That's amazing. six or seven people's final wishes. Oh, wow. On if this were to happen, we want this. If both of us go, the children need to go.

Yeah, yeah, we've done all that. And it is, again, it was the show's context that opened these conversations for us. But, you know, mortality and the end-of-life discussions are hard to have at any point. Sure. Especially with strangers. Yeah. The unfolding that you saw on social media when the show came out, what is the follow-up? What is the support that follows that conversation?

That's a good question. We put together some resources. So HFC put the full-filmed conversation that we did on their websites. It's at we are hfc.org slash this is us. So you can watch the video that we made, but also underneath that we created a few resources. for how to start that conversation, actually, that kind of conversation. We can link to all those in this episode.

Great. Yeah, and some other, I think it's, we did see that people look to places that could help them with different resources or, you know, ask people to help guide them, you know, through some of that or to reach out and ask for help, generally speaking. I think that one thing people, I don't know that is that actually there are resources. out there. And so stories can help make sure that that is known as well. So one example of that, I think, is we don't actually see a lot of TV representation of what policies or types of either workplace or state-based policies exist. And people don't know what to ask for. There are obviously

We know about paid leave, but we may not know that there's caregiver paid leave. It's worth asking, you know, in your workplace if you need to take time to care for a loved one or receive care for yourself. We don't know that there are programs like in California, it's the in-home supportive services where a family member can actually get paid to provide care. And so, you know, it's just about like, how do we find ways to also like. Let people know there is. Yeah. That there is so. Yeah.

Right. Right. Never mind. Never mind if there's any underlying. shame around asking for help. But having no idea who to ask. Yeah. Or what to ask.

Or what to ask or where to look. Yeah. It all just seems so daunting anyways. Yeah. Especially when if you are a caregiver in this position, it's essentially, if you looked around at society, that it's just expected of you. Yeah. You know, to just do it and carry on.

Yes. You know. Without complaint. Yeah. We have several parents in our circle who have children who have needed additional support in school. And like going through LAUSD to get these kids the advocacy and the support that they need on their day, just in day-to-day schooling was such a minefield of bureaucracy and red tape and all these things. And so now we have these couple, two moms who like know everything

you need to do, all the ins and outs. And they've become almost consultants for, for not just friends in our, but like now friends of friends are hearing and friends of friends of friends and they're getting phone calls. But it becomes a part-time job for them. It's statistically a part-time job. Yeah. To never mind be a caregiver for their child. But now all of these other parents who need the same help who don't know what to do are coming to them for support. And now they're caregiving all these network of parents. It's harrowing to watch. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, really, it's really frustrating how complicated and sort of, I don't know, obtuse the system is, right? Like, I was going to say that I don't think, if I didn't have a friend whose son was diagnosed

as neurodivergent a few years before my son had his developmental delayed. I wouldn't have known what resources were out there and what I should have done next, right? And we were lucky that I was able to get him set up with all of the different therapies, even though then I had to fit in six hours of therapy a week on top of my full-time job, right? Right. So, yeah, it's... Never mind to and from. Yeah, to and from, and then the paperwork and all of the ongoing administration.

Like, it's... I think the statistic is that most family caregivers spend somewhere around 20 to 24 hours a week on caregiving responsibilities. Unpaid. Unpaid. Yeah. Yeah. There was a tangential sort of question, and you were talking about changing cultural

norms with regards to caregiving and whatnot. I'm curious, like, what do we know about norms in this country vis-a-vis other countries or other cultures? Like, are there different countries that have different ways of practicing care that, like, the West does differently? Or do you even know any differences between those things? Yeah, we sort of made cultural strategy a core part of carrying across generations from the very beginning, you know, from the inception of the organization and the theory of change, which is we actually looked at how we understand and relate to care, broadly speaking, as a culture in the U.S., and water those barriers that are sort of holding us back. And the things that we identified, and then thus the things that we are sort of seeking

to change have to do with gender norms, assumptions about whether or not care labor is skilled or valuable, assumptions around, well, really ideas that we have about, aging. We're very youth-obsessed country. We're scared to age. Many other cultures have a different relationship to aging. We are uncomfortable with disability. It's sort of taboo and stigmatized. And much more so than other places? I don't actually know, like, if I could answer that directly, but I think we do know that we have hang-ups around disability in this country, for sure other countries do too, but there are cultures where we understand that, that sort of have a different understanding of the value of people and of all different types of people. Whereas in this

country, it kind of all comes down to productivity and what we're able to continue to the economy. So if you think about people who have aged out of the traditional workforce, if you think about disabled people who may not be able for different reasons to have a conventional 40-hour-a-week job, And we don't value people in the same way. Yeah. Right. So, and then it all kind of also comes back to this individualistic mindset. Like, we are a country of individualism and individual heroes and bootstraps and all of that.

So one reason that we think about care is something that we are supposed to handle on our own is that we're sort of told from birth essentially that, like, the way that you make it is that you, you know, work really hard and you earn your way. And then if you didn't, you know, make enough money or whatever, didn't have the right things in place to provide the right kind of care to your kids or to your parents or to whoever else in your life, that was on you. That's on you. So we are kind of moving, using storytelling, creating conversation, and really hoping to prompt new norms that kind of shift us toward thinking about this. is really, you know, care is, as you said at this top, like, it's something that's going to

affect all of us at some point. It's past, present or future, right? We all have a care connection. Yeah. And it's actually what makes it possible for us to participate in our world, right? If we didn't have parents that raised us, if we don't have people to take care of our kids, if our disabled loved ones and parents, aging parents didn't have care, like, our society actually wouldn't function.

So, like, we've just invisibleized it. So now we're moving past invisible to make it visible. Right. And then, you know, actually encouraging people to celebrate what you do as a caregiver, how you're part of this sort of care economy, and see it as a strength, right? It's the thing that keeps us connected. It actually is like fundamentally what makes us human is that we care for each other. We wouldn't have survived as a species if we didn't do that.

Yeah. Right. Absolutely. And it seems it's this invisible thing that we all seem to be working so hard to support, but don't want to talk about. Exactly. We spend all of our time. You said 50% of our money on child care. You know what I mean?

Like on this thing that we are all experiencing in one way or another, or at least witnessing. If we're not experiencing it, we're witnessing it. Yeah. And it can be, when you. zoom out and look at it, it can, it makes sense to me why no one wants to talk about it. Because it seems like too big an idea to talk about. It seems so huge and so overwhelming that where do you even start. And so all of these tools that you've created and these storylines that these writers take on, you know, to tell is, like, is a good place to start?

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That's Q-U-I-N-C-E-com slash T-WU. One thing that This Is Us did really well. Well, it did many things really well. Let me just say so. You're looking at three of them. Wish I'll show of certain spaces hold memories, kitchens, living rooms, front porches, all of the places where life happens. I think that's actually why people connect to staying in someone's home when they travel. Yeah.

It feels personal, lived in, like there are real stories there. Yeah, man, families traveling together are usually looking for spaces where they can slow down, cook together, hang out late talking, make memories of their own. Which is why listing your space on Airbnb can feel meaningful on top of it being a great way to earn extra cash. You are sharing a space that already means something to you and giving other people a chance to experience those same kinds of moments. And listen, if hosting feels overwhelming, that's understandable. But Airbnb's co-host network makes it easier than ever. You can hire a vetted local co-host to help manage everything. If something goes wrong, if like light bulb blows out or something, you know.

Internet service is gone. Internet service goes down. You don't want to spend your time away having to manage those things. That's why you get a host. Don't call me. Call that co-host. A co-host can help manage reservations, handle guest communication, and even provide on-site support. So instead of worrying about logistics while you're away, you can stay focused on enjoying where you are.

If you are interested in hosting, but you could use a little help. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Beyond that, in a practical sense, like where do we go from here? What are your takeaways for people from beyond just a conversation, beyond seeing it represented on screen because we understand the immense value

that seeing these different kinds of experiences have? but like, what else can we do in terms of like not to get political, but like from a policy perspective, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing anybody can do that I always say is you can just talk about it. Yeah. Right? In your life.

In your life. Your friends, your family. Exactly. Talk about it and don't be ashamed about it and just honor it. Yeah. Right? And talk about the challenges. That said, carrying across generations this year is anchoring what we're calling a deep listening.

research project where we're trying to understand what families in this country, what people in this country who have care responsibilities and needs at any point of their lives, which really is all of us. What is it that we're actually going through and what is it that we actually need? It's called the One Million Care Conversations Initiative because the goal is to actually hear from a million people across all walks of life, all backgrounds, all parts of the country and really collect those responses not just in terms of. terms of like share your story with us, but we want you to tell us what you're going through and what you need. So those needs can be then analyzed and assessed and converted into a real,

like, solution for a new system, right? It's something that we can propose at the policy level. Great. That people can, like, feel like actually is responsive to what they need in their life and believe in so that it has, you know, sort of built in buy-in and support from the jump, right? It's a solution that is really of the people for all of us. And how can people partake in that particular study? I don't know if we can put it up, but we do have a QR code that if you're watching this, you can scan the QR code.

It'll take you directly to the survey. It takes about five minutes to fill it out. There we go. Nice time. Nice time. You're part of the million, everybody. Join the conversation. If you don't see this on your screen, you can.

can also text the word Convo, C-O-N-V-O- to C-A-R-N-G, so text Convo to C-A-R-N-G. Or the website is careconversations.com. Great. Yeah. And to piggyback on just more of the conversation of why you're here, I'm curious, like what does it look like when you first are going in to sort of consult on a project? Like, what does that look like exactly? Like, what do you come armed with?

What are you takeaways? what are you hoping for? Like, what does your sort of presentation look like? That's a great question. Let me think about this for a second. No, I think I really always start by trying to understand what is the project, what is the story. Sure. What are they going for?

I think there's a sort of worry or an anxiety that having experts or a nonprofit or an advocacy organization come in. they're going to lecture you and tell you they've done everything wrong. And we really don't believe that. All we really are seeking to do is to help people tell the best, most authentic and most nuanced story as possible that avoid certain pitfalls or things that kind of keep us reinforcing the ideas that I mentioned earlier that are kind of those cultural ideas and mindsets that have held us back. So how do we, if it's a story around disability care, what are some of the more problematic things that have been repeated and how do we just make sure we avoid those while also infusing more authenticity and more specificity and nuance into these portrayals.

Could you give us an example? Let me think about an example. Yes, give me one second to think. Maybe there was something from season six because I'm sure the show as well as these stories were told, there were maybe some pitfalls in our storytelling or maybe examples of, you know, Miguel needing to ask for help or are there other scenes from season six that helped unfold that story? We kind of, the kids sort of ultimately were like, hey, man, we're here for you.

You know what I'm saying? You've done your job, right? Right. And I'm saying, when I say name a pitfall, I'm not saying name a show. I'm just saying an example of something. You're not studying me up for a trap. No, ma'am. No, ma'am.

No, ma'am. You don't want to get you in trouble. No, absolutely. I can definitely give you examples of pitfalls. But before I do, I do want to acknowledge that the reason that we wanted to work with the Norman Lear Center on the research project that we did, is that their program, the Hollywood Health and Society program actually did. They did an incredible job. And honestly, I don't know that we had any notes in terms of the representation on the show. Yeah.

And so just to credit to the effort. to the effort it took to actually seek out that guidance. So let me ask this then. What were the writers, if you know, what were they most surprised to learn about telling these stories that maybe they didn't understand? Or am I asking that right? Like as the writers are researching these ideas, there must have been revelations to them that they were unaware of.

I wish I was a writer and you could answer that question. No, okay. I didn't know if there were any examples. But I'm trying to think back to the conversation that we had. It might come to me, but I know K.J. Steinberg, it was one of the incredible writers. Yes, she is. Joined the conversation too. Roundtable that we did that was filmed. And I remember one of the things was really just recognizing that everybody had a connection point. Like, I think that was just, it always is, right? In any space, people start to recognize that they have their own, like, connection points that they didn't really think up, right? A pitfall is one thing that comes up with disabled characters and older characters is the assumption that if you're experiencing disability, cognitive decline, you might have an intellectual disability, you're less in charge of your own destiny. And reinforcing this idea that, okay, this is happening to you, so we must take control.

it diminishes that person's agency that actually has real world ramifications. It reinforces in our minds that if somebody is growing older, then maybe we don't need to take them as seriously. And so therefore we don't need to support them. So those are the types of things that we try to help people look for in their storytelling. And in that process of consultation, I like to listen. And then I like to kind of bring some of these common pitfalls, common themes, and also commonalities that we're hearing about people,

about what they would like to see more of based on their lived experiences and help creators find those opportunities to expand that. Man, like an anecdote of sorts. Like, one of the main things that, so my mom has ALS, and there was a point in time while we were shooting the show,

and I remember going into the writer's room saying, like, I don't know which of my moms will pass away first between my mom versus my TV mom. And a lot of strange parallels were happening between Randall and myself and the character, like fights with siblings over the best way to take care of mom, how honoring wishes. And so now with my mom, who hasn't been able to speak since October of 2018, was diagnosed April of 2018, and then she couldn't really speak after that. So they have computer programs that she could use with to move her eyes.

to sort of like write words typewriter type of thing, but she said that was too exhausting, so we have a reading chart that we use. And this idea that my brother and I have always come the odds at is like honoring her wishes, not what we think is best for her without, like she still has, her mind is still present, right? And if it takes us a little bit longer to get the information,

then it takes us a little bit longer, but making sure at each step of the journey, are we honoring what she wants? It's very, very powerful. And just when you said that, it made me think of that particular thing in my life. Yeah, I think that's just one thing that I think it's really important to remember that we're all human

all the way through our lives and we all have dignity and we all have the right to have a say and how our lives go and unfold. Amen. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us about this. We can link to all of these things. If you're watching, you can see the QR code, but we'll link to these in the bio on wherever you get your podcasts. So people will be able to connect with you and what you're working on.

Thank you so much for having me. This has been so fun and very special to come full circle. This was one of the first things I got to work on when I joined carrying across generations. So having this conversation is really special. Thank you. We're too much. Who wants to close it out? We could have Lydia do it?

Yeah. But should she say the name of the podcast or the name of this episode of the podcast? How about just this episode? Chat was us. To qualify through Medicaid or whatnot, it was a situation where they were saying she had too much money and she had no income because she was a homeowner. You have to deplete your assets before you can qualify for like a certain thing. And it's like, what's the point? I have to like give you my house.

What? Yeah. I know. Yeah. We're going through that with my father-in-law as well. Are you really? Yeah, it's just like to qualify for otherwise you're paying out of pocket. And when you move to another facility that requires more care, it's like it's unconscionable how, you know, what the expense is.

And it's like, again, we're incredibly lucky to be in a certain position to be able to afford that. But it's like, what is the world at large meant to do? And that's like the bigger question that we as a society have to grapple with and why I was asking specifically about, you know, when she answered that this is the first step is like, let's collect all of these conversations and let's deduce like what is the biggest takeaway? What are the actual specific care needs that we need? And then we can start to sort of frame it through, you know, from a policy perspective of how we then, you know, address that. Like, it is coming for all of us. Other countries... It already is. You know, you're like, if a woman has a baby, right? I know a friend of mine who took six to 12 months of paternity leave paid,

who was living in Switzerland at the time. Yeah. I was like, that's a thing. I'm definitely not in this country, you know what I'm saying? He was able to take, like, mental health breaks. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, if people are what make a place, right? And as Lydia was saying, not just like their ability to contribute to the GDP,

but just people, just people in and of themselves, have value. And is there a way that we can sort of like emphasize that through policy for what you're talking about? Listen, I feel like by default, I am a capitalist, but I don't think I'm so rugged a capitalist that like it's capital. capitalism above humanity? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you. It is such a nuanced conversation and it's really like, I just, I stand in awe of caregivers in general.

Of all stripes, whatever that caregiving looks like in your life, and what what humans like Lydia do. Because it is a lot, it is a heavy burden. up a hill, you're pushing a rock up a hill to try to tell these stories, to take in all of this information. And we are all daunted by it. We are daunted. Never mind a solution to simply, the amount of work it takes to start a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. It's unfathomable, which is why it hasn't been started. Right. Which is why it was invisible, which is why, you know, literally, literally her next step is to have a million conversations. Yeah.

Because that's where we are in the stage of being able to support caregivers. On that level, like I know for my brother, who I, who's really just who manages the nurse practitioners and sort of oversees, they're coming and going and schedules, whatnot. The one thing that I tried to do for him is to just pick up the phone when he calls. because he is he's a lot like randall and sometimes like he can sort of like great with like what's going on in his world but but from a place of love like he's managing a lot and sometimes he just needs to like to be heard yeah someone needs to hear it somebody's got to hear like this is what i'm going through and so i i say this if you ever see this he doesn't watch a podcast but armin i do try to pick up the phone because

I know sometimes you just got to get that shit out. It's a good reminder for all of us to be that sounding board for anybody in our life that might need the same. Yeah, which is why these conversations are important. So I'm going to take this survey. I'm going to take the survey too. If you're listening, find this QR code through our links. Yeah. Take this survey so that we can keep this conversation going.

It's interesting because I think one thing that she may be deflected on, that I have heard in terms of a criticism of our show is just that, you know, the Pearson's, obviously, because of Kevin, had the ability to afford this in-home care for Rebecca. And that is not the picture of most experiences across this country. So I'm sure that, I mean, again,

it made sense within the fabric of our show, considering that there was a, child who had an incredible job who was able to afford this kind of care. It would have been a whole different show if he had withheld that. Totally. Like, well, mom, you're on your own. You and Miguel, just figure it out yourselves.

So I'm sure that that's something that would be interesting to see in other forms of media. And I'm sure all of us and, you know, when we're fortunate enough to wear the producer hats, like these are the kinds of things that and lenses by which I like to see certain projects through as well. of like making sure that we're considering all of these different angles and one appropriate being able to lift up stories like this that feel unheard for the most part. Agreed. Agreed. Caring across conversations.

One million care conversations. Yeah. There's a QR code and she said you can also text the word Convo to C-C-R-I-N-G. Yep. C-A-R-I-N-G. Can you text the word caring? No, Convo. No, but like, text the word combo.

Oh, I guess you would type that on. Let me do it and see what happens. Let's see what happens. Hold on one sec. I'm curious to see. So if I go to my text messages. Yeah, go to your text messages. And I type caring up there and I type the word combo. Yeah, tell me what happens.

Does it say, what are you doing? Or does something go through? My phone just starts smoking. I received a response from another number that gives me the link to the survey. The survey? Wow, that's cool. I love what it all works. Click on that link and take the survey.

Take that survey, man. Great conversation. Great chat. Thanks to Lydia's story. She already said the end of it. Can we play the end? Do I say it again. Do a remix of it.

Chit, chit, chat, chat, chat. Chat was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us That was a headgum podcast Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair Ever order furniture online and wonder what if?

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