That Was Us - Chat Was Us | Siblings

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

This week on That Was Us, we’re trying something a little different. Inspired by the heart of This Is Us and where we currently are in the rewatch with Kevin and Randall’s reconciliation, the hosts kick off a brand new “Group Chat” format centered around one big theme: siblings! From birth order and family roles to rivalry, resentment, and deep love, Mandy, Sterling, and Chris open up about their own sibling dynamics and the ways those relationships continue to shape who they are today. In this episode, the hosts chat about: * Their own sibling dynamics, age gaps, and the roles they played growing up * How birth order can shape personality, ambition, and family identity * Why siblings raised in the same household often feel like they had completely different parents * The ways Kevin, Kate, and Randall mirror real-life sibling dynamics and coping mechanisms * How trauma and major life events can permanently shape sibling relationships * Caring for aging parents and how siblings divide emotional and logistical responsibilities * Why the sibling who moves away often experiences family differently * The lasting impact of family roles well into adulthood * Whether siblings naturally grow closer with age—or drift apart * “Hot takes” about siblings, including parent favorites, youngest-child privilege, and whether siblings are built-in best friends or built-in enemies * The value of staying connected to family, even when relationships are complicated And a friendly reminder, you can catch new episodes of That Was Us every Monday, a day early, exclusively on Hulu. Available on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts on Tuesdays like usual! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: -This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://Betterhelp.com/twu today to get 10% off your first month. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. Gun show. Now, is this a slip? That's exactly what he said. The first thing I said. This is a slip-esque dress. Two guys just thoroughly confused by what... Guys.

But we were right about some things. Which is what? What were you right about? Sully had said something that oftentimes it's something worn underneath in order for things, the drape. So that things like fall. Sure. Slide around is... It feels weird.

Not slide around, but sort of they fall. Man, don't you like a dress to slide around. You don't want your dress getting caught on things. You know what I mean? I guess maybe back in the day to have it fall a certain way, but now that feels less. You made a point about sheerness and sort of like to make a more opaque. A slip was usually, in my mind, was always worn for. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was right, somebody, I said a couple of black folks said that. Sterling ain't wrong about the church, because in church, people would be wearing slip. where it slipped. This week we're trying something new. We're going to pivot away from a re-watch discussion for an episode and just chat. You know, we're just going to chat, bro. That's chat. We're just going to chat. So the focus of the chat. So welcome to the, That Was Us, group chat, where we riff off a certain topic inspired by This Is Us. And today we're starting out strong with siblings. That's right. Yeah. We're chatting about the people who may know us the longest, who push our buttons the most, or maybe even for some who you have to work hard

to have a relationship with at all. We're also going to get into the roles you fall into, the stuff you don't realize until you're older, all of it. And this ties in a little bit with where we're at in the rewatch right now because we recently saw Kevin and Randall reconcile in season five, where we are. But really, our entire show is about the dynamics of siblings and family, right? Yeah. But first, I think it's important to catch up because we haven't seen each other so long.

So much has happened. It's like a month? It's been a month. So much has happened. Okay, so even though things have been rolling, you know, I had the birthday party slash roast on. Sterling turned 50. I turned 50.

Five, oh. And guys, I got to tell you, it's one of the top five days of my life. That's great. It was absolutely. That was great. Now, listen, just so everybody knows how it went down. Like, so I had, how many roasters I had my brother, Michael Hogan?

Nine. Was it nine total? Nine slots. Anyway, 10 people total. 10 people? Okay. Not, yeah. So anyway, friends from college, friends from high school, a buddy from grad school as well.

But guys. Sully and Huertas? Sully and Wertes, they get up at the end. And you guys were on fucking fire. Listen, man. Bro. Listen. You killed that.

Listen, I'm going to tell you something. Tell me something. I've done a lot of performing in my life. I am almost embarrassed to admit how proud I am. You know, it's awesome. You shouldn't be. You should be. I've watched the tape back half a dozen times.

Have you really? Yes. I don't have a tape. Who taped it? Rachel. Send it. I want to do it. We got, I got clips if you want them.

We got clips. How much rehearsal? No rehearsal. No rehearsal? Here's the thing. Here's what John and I realized. Because they riffed off. Okay, wait, I just say, the whole, the thesis of their thing was that

Brown is a lead actor who doesn't pay attention to anybody. Here's what we realized. That he's like number, whatever, one on the call sheet, let's just say. The day before the roast, Ryan Michelle sent us the running order, run of show. Okay. John and I realized we were last. Yeah. Which is not necessarily.

It means that you're a closer in most things. Yeah. But in a roast situation, you've now had eight people in front of you who have had a crack at all of the subject matter. Sure. Sure. I got you. So you're like, where does that leave us? I get you.

Where does that leave us? Literally as we're sitting in the front row, we're like, okay, someone just made our joke. Okay, now we've got to take that. Really? Yeah. Are you serious? We're like, so when we get to this, instead of saying that, let's go this way. And we were pivoting and we're like, and we knew it was going to be a while.

Yeah. I was like, we need to get up there and blast because it's a long show. Yeah. And so we spent a few days writing. We read it through a few times. Then I realized as we were sitting there, I'm like, oh, not only do we have to roast a man, we have to be a well-oiled comedic duo. Yeah. Which takes years.

I know. I know. And it didn't occur to me until we were sitting there because I'm like, these people get to go alone. They get to do their thing and, like, give their speeches. I'm like, John and they are going to have to riff off each other. And really, most people weren't performers. No, no. Nobody else was a war.

Yeah, so, like, getting up and, like, speaking to a room full of people anyway. Yeah. It's very intimidating. It was also intimidating because they were all killing it. Yeah, they were great. They did really, really well. And I was like, so anyways, we got up there. We had a good time.

You guys, I, like, it brings a tear to my eye to know that you took the time. And it was, first of all, they gave me this thing. that I had to read. Yeah, so we had a bunch of jokes that we were trying to get in there, and I was like, what if we made Sterling deliver these jokes? Instead of us delivering them, let's make Sterling do it. And so we wrote Sterling a script that he had never seen before,

and then he had to get up and deliver our intro. It was fantastic, like I could only refer to them as number seven and number eight. Because that's the number on the call sheet. Here's the thing, I was number four on the sheet. For everybody. listening that doesn't realize sometimes in productions if you are the lead of the show you are number one that is correct sometimes in an ensemble like our show it is an order of appearance on screen

my lo was first so he was number one i was second so i was number two and so on and so forth i chrissey for people outside of our industry it can just be like a like you're saying an order or arbitrary order of appearance or size of role yeah like you let's say say, let's say Mandy has 100 lines. She's number one. Sterling has 75 lines. He's number two. I have the least number of lines.

It's like, it can kind of go like that. It can also be a point of contention. Yes. For people with an ego who cannot be controlled. And who care about numbers. Who care about those numbers. Sure. And so what we were playing on was that Sterling really took his number one.

Took his number serious. Yeah. And that we were lower than him. Yeah. Because we knew nobody else in the roast was going to have that. Nobody else is going to have that. Nobody else is going to have that. So we had to take that.

And it was a good inside baseball sort of thing. You had a whole thing. Wait, oh, God, oh, God, there's this whole thing about, they were going to reenact how I came up with the idea for Paradise. Oh, yeah, I said. But they wanted to make sure it was okay for them to act without me. Could we do acting? Is it okay if we do acting without you, Sterling?

And you had such strong comedic, like personas. Like, Johns was very sort of like pulled together and sort of like suave and what have you. and you were sort of this beleaguered figure. Which I didn't know what's going to happen until I got on stage. Really? Yeah, yeah, because we had read it a few times and as soon as I got on stage, I'm like,

oh, this is the character. He's losing his mind that he has to be up here entertaining the king. Yeah, it was fun. It was one of the great nights of my life. There's other good news. So you finished shooting the land. Wait, wait, before we get off your birthday,

I have, because I brought you something. What was this? One of the jokes that we made was that I am currently doing supporting acting for the leading acting of Viola Davis. Yes. And I've been spending a lot of time in the south in Baton Rouge. Yeah. And flying back and forth. And the New Orleans airport, first of all, is wild.

Yeah. And maybe it's not all southern airports, but you see things in this airport. I can't stop. I get the airport early just to look around. Okay. And I found this for you. Oh, Lord. And so happy birthday.

Thank you very much. If you're not watching, go ahead. Nobody. If you're not watching us on Hulu, shame on you. Shame on you. And you won't get to see it. But I was like, well, that has to, I got to get that for Sterling. And it's, it's, it's, that's personal.

It does, it does have rhinestones. It does have rhinestones on it. That's your hall pass. That's Dolly right there. Wow. St. Dolly. It's Dolly dressed up like the, Virgin Mary.

Fully bedazzled. With rhinestones. Yeah. And I, and, and, you know, I had to get one for myself. This one, this one, this one. He's risen. Yes. No way!

I'm telling you, these airports, these airports are wild, man. That is the best search. It's a T-shirt that says, he is risen. And it's, R-I-Z-I-N. It's our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, raising up for a nasty dunk on a basketball hoop. He's about the phone for me. That's from the airport? This is from the, I'm telling you guys, the New Orleans airport.

Nola. Is wild. I'm going. I'm going. I'm doing the commencement address at Tulane. Oh, nice. So I'll be there next weekend. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, she'll be fun.

Tack on some extra time at the airport. Wait, this coming weekend? Yeah, this coming weekend. When do you leave? I'll see you there. Friday. Okay, great. Anyways, look around the airport.

It's wild. Okay. I saw a book that was 52 prayers for my wife. Yep, just a book. Just a book for, just a book. If I'm going to say a prayer for my wife. I'm going to say 52. One a week, right?

What's one a week? That makes sense. It's a yearly. That makes sense. Wait, huh. Okay, so you guys, Mandy, you were talking about the Noravirus that went through your family. Yes. What else?

What else is going on? What's going on with? How is, how is Vyla? How is working with her? She's wonderful. Give it to me. She's just very, she's very focused. Economic.

Very economical. Yeah. She's got the set up the way she needs it to be set up. Yeah. Because she's going to be there all. day, every day for every day of shooting. Yep. You know, in between takes, you know, she is in preservation mode, but if you, if you get in there,

she opens right up. Sure. Very nice, very lovely. When are you done? I got one more, I got one more day of shooting this Monday. So I go back on Sunday. Shall we dip into the siblings? Sure.

Part of the thing. Yeah. We're going to start off with the game that we wanted to play was two truths and a lie. Who wants to go first? Sully. All right. All right. We're going to kick off with two truths and a lie.

Two truths and a lie. About siblings. Yeah, it's siblings themed. I can start if you want me. You start. You start. How many siblings do you have? See, this is an excellent question.

That's me and my brother and my sister. And who's the doggie? That's Dutch. Dutch. We've heard about Dutch. We've heard about Dutch. That's sweet Dutch. I love Dutch.

Oh. Yeah, I had Dutch to, like, him and my dad were like passed around the same time. Like that's right before my dad, within the year before my dad. This was the last dog you loved. We heard at the roast. We won't go into details, but yeah. That's right. It was confirmed at the roast.

Yeah. And to be clear, you do have a dog right now. But this is the last dog you loved. I have a dog. Yeah, probably. Okay. All right, first one. First one.

Okay. I am one of three biological. children from my mom, right? I am, I have two adopted siblings, and all of my siblings were born in St. Louis except for my sister who was born in California. Those are my three. That's it. All right.

So now you guys have to- Oh, wait, those were the three. Those were three. What was the first one? I'm one of three biological siblings from- Your mom. From your mom. From her mom.

I think the lie is that your sister was born in California. That's what I'm going with. I think it's the first one. You're correct. Ah. You made him repeat it, and I saw him lying in his eyes. Okay. Yeah.

My mom... You can have... Had a son before my oldest brother. My eldest brother's name is Anthony. Yes. He had a child. childhood disease and passed away at the age of six. Oh, my gosh.

I didn't know that. I know. I know. So my brother's oldest son is named Anthony. After his brother. After our oldest brother. So I never got a chance to meet my oldest brother because my brother and sister are 14 and 12 and a half years older than me.

Yeah. So they have memories, but probably not even the strongest memories, because memories start formulating around three, four, and he probably passed away right around that time. In a retro photo like this, right? Yeah. From here, those could be your parents. Tell me, like, the age difference is so... Yeah. So stark.

And here's the thing, like, they don't like it if I ever say, like, have siblings. Because we did... And in African-American families or whatnot, you just say, like, if you have the same mama, you know, it's brother and sister. So they're my brother and my sister. But it's one of the... And we'll get into this as we go through. because one of the things that I used to envy most about their relationship is like a shared history that I sort of was on the outside of.

Okay. Just a little bit. Because they grew up together. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so like, when I see you guys with your kids, I was like, oh, that's the sweet spot. Like, do it like that. Because I wish my boys were even a little bit closer together.

Okay. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Why? There's just a little bit of a different interest between that four-year gap. like where one person is still watching Disney Jr. And the other person is like, I want to go see the Marvel flick or whatnot.

And so like it starts to close as they get a little bit older. But when they were young, I was like, I have to go do separate things with everybody. I got it. I got it. I got it. Okay, who's next? Good job, Chris. Yeah, go ahead.

Okay. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are you doing this summer to thrive and not just survive? For some, summer is their favorite season. Travel picks up, the kids are out of school, adventure is in focus. But for others, juggling all of that can be tough and can lead to overwhelm and counting down the minutes until the kids are back in school.

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But for others, juggling all of that can be tough and can lead to overwhelm and counting down the minutes until the kids are back in school. I try to get outside in the summer. Try to soak it up as best I can. Being an Irish boy, going to stay out of the sun. But nature calls off to the mountains, off to the woods. This is how I take care of myself in the summer. But you also have to build in time for yourself.

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sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash T-W-U. That's better-h-E-L-P.com slash T-W-U. My younger brother, Kyle, there in the little Rudolph outfit. Yes. I slammed his finger in the door so hard that it was hanging off. Oh! And he had to go rush to the hospital to have it. sewn back on. He subsequently got a little, not a little, he got an infection that wasn't

allowing blood to go to the fingertip. So he had to have a shunt put in his chest to have blood flow to his finger. If that's the line, you are messed. Like the mind of, like, if that's the lie, We've learned something about Mandy one. Okay. Another one? He's going to go free of them. We're going to be right here. Yeah, yeah.

The other one, I stuck my finger in their eye. My younger brother also overdosed twice on Flintstone vitamins. Overdosed? Overdosed? What are the repercussions of Flintstone? Ate. The entire bottle discovered by a babysitter. Had to go have stomach pumped.

That's too much vitamin C. Okay. It's too much vitamin C. And so after the first time, somebody's like, now we've got to get back to the store and get another bottle. So he can overdose again. He needs the whole thing. Didn't learn his lesson. Well, great.

Now we're out of vitamins. My older brother dreamed of being a meteorologist, and he would stand in front of the TV as we were growing up and would pretend to do the weather, would stand in front of the weatherman. And that was like the ultimate dream for him was to be a meteorologist. My nephew did that. Really? My nephew is a meteorologist. Would watch the Weather Channel for hours at a time. My brother was the same.

Okay. Those are the three. It can't be the first one. The first one has to be the truth. Or is that why it is the first one? Or is that why it is the first one? I think it's number two. I think he only overdosed once.

I think I think that's what is. It's the number. It's not that he didn't do it. I think it didn't have to. That's smart. That's smart. That's smart. That's smart.

That's telling part truths. Right, right, right, right. But one of them is part lie. Yeah. See, that was where I was going because I think she definitely, I mean, we all slam our siblings, finger in a door. It's like, but maybe it wasn't hanging off. Right.

Maybe there was no shunt involved. That's true. That's possible. And now that I'm trying to think, medically speaking, if there's no blood going to his finger, why was there a shunt in his chest? I think Mandy just wanted to just. say the word shunt. And I think number one is the lie.

And you're saying number two. I said number two. It was number two. Can I give you some real information? Give it to me. Because that happened to me. I overdosed on Flintstone vitamins twice. Are you serious?

My parents should be like in jail. Wait. Two separate siblings? No, no. Two separate times I had to go get my stomach pumped because I'd eat an entire bottle of Flintstone vitamins. once was with my parents present and once was with a babysitter. They are delicious.

Yeah. Are you serious? Yes, twice. The whole thing. The whole thing. You needed a GOP one. They needed to not make them so tasty. They weren't tasty.

They were tasty. I mean, they were a little chalky now looking back, but that didn't stop me. But yes, I did slam my brother's finger in the door accidentally. It was hanging off. He had to go have it sewn back on. But he got some rare infection where blood wasn't flowing. to the tip of his finger and it was like

something, so they had to put a shunt in his chest that was helping the blood get to like the fingertip. He had to have this whole separate operation. I guess that's why you got to go to school for like 12 years to be a doctor. I guess. To figure out why you'd have to have a shunt in your chest

to help the tip of your finger. Yeah. They spent a whole semester on that. For Kyle. He never left me forget it. Finger shunts? Yeah. Because he's got that weird finger.

He does. It is actually. Remember me? A little like crooked. Yeah. Remember how you named me? He goes, hi! Waves it around.

Hodes it up in every family picture. He's always like this with like one finger pointing down. One finger like drooping. The baby brother too. Poor little Kyle. Only 18 months younger than me, yeah. All right, Christopher Joseph. You're up.

All right. I am one of two. There's a photo of me and my brother washing the Mustang right after I got it. You in the blue? Yeah. You track down. again. Yeah, that's the long-lost Mustang when we first got it.

So let's see, three facts about my sibling. That wasn't the first one? No, okay, no, no. That's just, I was just explaining the photo for those who are not watching us on Hulu for some reason. Weird. So my brother was a junior Olympic archer. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Okay. My brother is married to John Candy's daughter. Okay. Uh-huh. And my brother, Brian, with a why. That explains everything. I love the joy. And then he does parsing out the information.

walks with a cane. Okay, I am going to say I know... Two is true. Two is true, because you've mentioned it before. Two is true. He's mentioned... I couldn't remember if I'd mentioned it. I feel...

I'm just, I remember him being an Olympic... I want to say, like, I'm just not sure if it was an archer. Because I remember Chris being like, I was a ranked tennis player. Yeah. And my brother was... Yeah. So I feel like that there may be... Maybe some lie detected with the sport.

Yeah. And I don't know with the cane. I think also one, just because if three is not true, that's a weird thing to say about your brother. Yeah. You know what I'm going to go with one too. He walks with the cane and then we're going to be like, lies. And then I'll be like that, then that's a little aggressive on our part, right? Yeah, yeah.

Insensitive. I'm going to go with number one as well. One. The lie is. It's three. I've realized here. Oh, that Brian with a Y is not, that's the lie. Is that the Brian?

That Brian is with an eye. No, here's the problem. That's that I've messed up the game. You told all three like truths? Yeah, it was a trick. Got you guys. Trick. I got you.

Wait a minute, dude. I got you. Did you really tell all three things are true? Yeah, listen, guys. Well, cool. I love learning about Brian with a wife. I love it. He was an Olympic archer?

So, yeah, he was. He was an Olympic archer. All those things are true, you guys, which is not how this game goes. But I love it. But we've learned some things here today. We've learned some things about Brian. Oh, my God. It makes me even more happy than we said one.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, I could have sworn it was a different sport. I'm glad that. No, so what happened was, what happened was, I was a Boy Scout, right? And so I learned archery. I learned riflery, shooting guns, things like that. And one summer, when, you know, the middle of summer where all your friends are gone. Yeah.

Yeah. And your mom is like, leave this house. Yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing to do. And it's so hot. And it's Sacramento. You're just like, what are we going to do?

And I had just got my license. I was 16. My brother was 13 because we're about three and a half years apart. Okay. Which has it. So I think we'll talk about age difference more. But like, I was like, I've just learned how to do this archery thing. Let's go find an archery range.

Okay. And we walked into the. this archery range in Sacramento, nobody was there. And he picked up a bow and was like Robin Hood. Really? From Shot One. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Just like bull's eyes. Wow. No way. Yeah. Yeah. At one point in his archery career, put an arrow through the arrow. No! Yeah, yeah.

Like all of those things. And it was like his big deal for a long time. Like when you see the Olympic archers with all like the gear and the stuff and the thing. Yeah. Where did he compete? All around California. But like what Olympic Games?

Junior Olympics. Oh, Junior Olympics. Wow. That is, man, you guys are a talented athletic family. Yeah, we were. Yeah. Still hot. You are.

We used to be. No, you are. That's in you. But yeah. Let's go. He's currently walking with a cane because he broke his back. What? Yeah, I know.

I know. Is he okay? He's fine. How to break your back? Exactly. That's a good question, Mandy. It's a fall. But it's not a big fall. No. He fell over and hit his back on a dresser.

And had to have surgery and the whole deal. Oh, Brian. And now he's got a really sweet-looking cane. He's getting better. Everything's getting better. Brian with a Y. Yeah, Brian with the Y. We hope you're... It's a rare one with the Y. On the Mend.

I know. It is. Let's talk about the role that you played in your sort of amongst your siblings. with your parents, et cetera. You're the eldest, Chris. Yeah, yeah. Does that mean that you are the person that sort of like holds the status quo that sort of is the straight arrow or what?

No, I was kind of thinking about this. You know, we have a couple episodes that we watched for this day of recording, too, where I was thinking about, like, position. Yeah. And in This Is Us, there kind of is no position age-wise, right? Which makes for a real age, right? which makes for a really interesting dynamic six seasons of it.

But where I was, a big part of like my brother and I's friction is that we were close in age, but not so close that we were in the same social circles, but close enough to where my presence was always just above his in his world. Yeah. Uh-huh. Does that make sense? Yes. He didn't like that.

Yeah. Doesn't like that. Okay. And it's a weird thing because it's neither of our fault. Totally. Right? It's just the way we moved through the world. Like, I graduated high school and he came into that high school.

Gotcha. That'll be the case for my kids. Right. Yeah. Like, and I was Sully. Yeah. Right. So he's Sully's a little bit.

I was on the back of my, you know, I was a cheerleader. I don't know if I told you guys that. No. Yeah, I was a cheerleader at the all-boys Catholic school, which was essentially just a band of like rowdy assholes who would go to sporting events and in their polo shirts with their names on the back. But like Sully, right? And so when Brian got to high school, he was. Sully's little brother.

Little Sully. Literally his nickname. Little Sully. He's bigger than I am. He's taller than I am. Oh, you serious? And so stuff like that becomes like a social... Yeah.

Hurtle. Like a thorn in his side. Yeah. Yeah. That's just like the ghost of this other person always around. This is interesting. Which I would find annoying too. What about in the context of the home in terms of how your relationships with your parents,

would you say that they're similar, different in any kind of way? No, I think that there was some... That's another point of contention is that, you know, the one who went first creates the comparison if you're not careful. Why can't you be like, uh-huh. You know, and so that has definitely led to a lot of our tensions over the years. Okay. Yeah. What about you, SKB?

Biologically, I am the youngest, right? Now, I do have a little brother and little sister who my mom adopted when I was 22 years old. So I started grad school. My mom got my little brother. And then two years later, my little sister came along because they have the same biological mom. So I love them. I don't want to disclude them from this conversation. But in terms of how I grew up, I was the youngest, right? I am hands down my mother's favorite child.

Openly. She's open about it? She didn't have to be. My mom can't talk anymore. Mom can't talk anymore. She has ALS. But if you ask my brother or sister or me, right. Like until Robert came along, who's my youngest brother, I was hands down.

Like my mom's favorite. You think Robert's a favorite now? Rob may be. Because Rob has like Rob, Rob dances and he, his nickname is Happy. We call him happy. He's like, hey, half, how you doing, man? And he's always just got this big, beautiful smile on his face and just brings good vibes. I think he has taken over what I sort of did with Arlene.

And I say this because, so the roles wise, I would say I would think a lot about my brother Armin when I thought about Randall, who's the person that just sort of like keeps everything together, make sure, you know, because he oversees moms care right now. Like he does, he's dutiful in that way. My sister and he had this incredibly close relationship. I say had, because as they've gotten older,

They have a little bit of friction amongst each other. So I'm also the communicator in my family where people will call me to say, like, can you talk to so-and-so? I was like, y'all live in the same city. How do you feel about that? It's exhausting. Will you do it? Oh, yeah.

Okay. I'll do it. But it is exhausting. It's a big burden. It's a little bit of something, but I do have the benefit of not being home. And I think... Question. Go ahead.

Do other people know that? I mean, clearly they know that because you're calling and you're trying to communicate. Do they appreciate it? Yeah, they do. They definitely show appreciation for it. We'll do this. We'll talk to a media. I actually think it is my role that I take on, not gladly,

but I take on because I don't have to be in St. Louis. And what I mean by that is I love St. Louis, I love home, but there's a certain amount of drama that comes when you are ensconced and there's a certain level of distance and perspective that you can have when you are removed, that you can say like, okay, guys, all you have to do is this. You know what I'm saying? So that's that.

Yeah. But I'm the person that brings levity. I am like, I can remember as a young kid, I don't know if you, because we're all performers. Like, and this is going to sound weird to some people, but not weird at all to me. She's to love putting on my mom's shoes and like putting a purse over and just going into character. Yeah. Like it was the jam. And to see her laugh, that was the, your first daughter.

Your first audience is mom and dad. Yep. Like to crack them up, you're like, I got something here. You know what I'm saying? So that was always my thing. I also think as the youngest, and I don't know how your brother would feel about this, because you're a lot to live up to. I learned a lot from the mistakes of my brother and sister.

I was like, oh, you guys are going to do it that way. I'm not going to. Brown's going to go this way. You know what I'm saying? So like there was, I appreciated them sort of doing the best that they could with things, but I felt like I had enough intent. I had enough intelligence to say, like, I can choose a path that may be a little bit easier for the shore in that way. That's interesting.

Yeah, yeah. What about you, man? You're in the middle. Smack dab in the middle. We got the oldest. We got the youngest. We got the middle. Yeah.

Look at this. I like this. This is fun. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense now. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

I think it does. We're our own big three. We are indeed. And I'm the middle kind of like Kate. But you're also the only girl, too. I was about to say. That too, yeah. Yeah.

That is the difference. Do your parents still have those outfits? I wish. I should check. I feel like my mom and my mom kept a lot. My parents are divorced now, but my mom. That feels like something that got tucked away in a box somewhere. Yeah, that's probably like eaten by Amanda.

Were you Amanda up to a certain point? No, I was always Mandy. Always Mandy. Yeah. My grandma made those. And so I think it was like, and she made our Christmas stockings and stuff. So I think that like my legal name was on that sort of stuff. But I was never Amanda.

Grandmas are always the one, too, who were like, no, her name is Amanda. Yeah. You named her Amanda. That's what we're calling her. Amanda. Yeah. My dynamic was always so my older brother's four years older, Scott. And then my younger brother's 18 months younger than me.

Are you guys closer because of the gap? Yes. Less gap? Yes. My younger brother and I have always been closer. Right. I love them both. They both live here in L.A., but they live far away.

that they might as well live in St. Louis. Everybody's in L.A.? Everyone's in L.A. I don't know that. Yeah. Okay. Both of their jobs lead them to, they're in the production. My younger brother works for Apple.

My older brother works on like the production coordination side of like unscripted TV. So he travels a lot and so does my younger brother for his job. Yeah. So they're not often always in town. Okay. But I would say growing up because I was the only girl and because I was a very, very determined, focused kid about what I wanted to do with my life. It's sort of like, and I led the charge, it almost felt like I was the oldest.

Yeah. You know, not to say that either one of them were like unfocused, but I was always just sort of like a laser beam. Like, I know what I want to do from like six, like a little older than that picture. I know what I want to do. I know how I'm going to do it. I just need mom and dad to help facilitate and drive me to rehearsal. but it took a little bit longer for both of them

to kind of come into what I think they wanted to do with their lives. So it almost felt like I was the oldest because I started working and I had a career path. And so, yeah, I kind of oddly have never really felt like the middle child. Always felt supported by siblings through this journey. Never any sort of like, why does Mandy get to do? Never any jealousy. Okay.

I would say like never jealousy that's ever been voiced to me. Yeah. Like very supportive and loving, but also like, you do that and we do something else. Like we're not really interested. Like, it's cool what you do, but like not like, yeah, never like very impressive to them. Chris, I have a question for you. And I only want you to delve as much as you want to. What was the time of least friction that existed between you and your brother?

I was thinking about that the other day. I think there's, I had another photo. Do you have the other photos? There was, there was another photo of, uh, me and my brother and Milo. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it will, I'm like, is that the, it's not the last photo that we took together, but it's like it was from a Comic-Con. We went to,

we went to Salt Lake City Comic-Con. Right. And Milo and I had tables next to each other. And, And my brother, I was like, hey, you want to come with me? And my brother came. And I was like, I think this is the last time that we had like a trip and had like fun together. Oh.

There's something interesting that happens when a person quits drinking. Yeah. And I had on that trip. Right. And it might be a little self-centered and narcissistic of me to think about it on this in this way. Yeah. There it is. Okay.

You guys are all real goofy and cute. Do you have the other photo? And then before Milo took off, I asked if we could take this special photo just for me. And this is Toby with dead Jack Pearson. So we took a-roll reversal. We took a photo of that at the Comic-Con before. No one knows what is showing on, I'm sure. I mean, if that's not a moment in time.

There is a thing that happens. To get Milo Ventimilia to lay down on the ground. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I feel like that would never happen. Yeah. Me neither. Special environment.

I feel like I got him like right in a moment. There's a thing that happens when a person stops drinking. Yes. Sorry. If drinking is an activity. Yeah. A lot of people use it to connect for obvious reasons. It allows you to kind of let your guard down, maybe it's a lot of, you know, boundaries and you can maybe socialize a little freer or whatever the thing is.

But there are certain people that you realize when you quit like, oh, that was the entirety of our relationship. Gotcha. You know what I mean? Oh, we used to go get drinks. Yeah. And now I don't drink. So what do we do?

We're not friends anymore. Yeah. It also makes a subconscious statement to people. Well, if he quit drinking, if he thinks he has a problem, and I, I drink the same amount as him, does he also think that I? Yeah, they feel judged. They feel judged. Oh.

Or they feel abandoned. Or they feel all of the above. You know what I mean? All of these things. Which in some cases is true. I'm like, you probably should cut back too or you probably should. Whatever. And this was the first trip where we socialized where I had quit and he hadn't.

And it was just like very obvious that like, Oh, we're going to socialize different now. Yeah. Like you want to go out, you want to stay out late, you want to do it. And I could do that for a while. But then I'm like, you know, it's 1130. I can head back to the hotel. Sure.

But yeah, that's a good photo. Yeah, that is a good photo. It's so sweet. More that was us after this short break. If this is us has taught us anything, it's that a home is never just a home. It's where all the big moments. and the small ones happen.

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Okay, I'm going to talk about my, my brother and sister. There's things that we can, like, reference here or whatever. Mandy, you're not really in messy middle because you kind of like function as the oldest because of that drive that you have. There's something interesting, I think, for me, where I'm the youngest, but I'm also sort of the person who's doing well in life. And not to say that my brother and sister are not, because they're both doing very well. My sister's a school teacher, a high school teacher.

She has a doctor in political science. And then my brother's a pharmaceutical salesman. He's a drug pusher. For a long time. I worked in like a gin and tech or, you know, farm. Anyway, there's a really interesting thing that happens for us where I kind of feel like Michael Corleone a little bit. Have you seen? I have.

Okay. That was a close one. This is my running sort of thing. Not three, but one and two. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard. Skip it.

Yeah. But like that thing that happens where, like, some people may feel somewhat passed over. Like, it should have been me sort of thing. I don't think my brother's just they don't feel that way about me. Like, I think they're deeply appreciative and want to see me thrive or whatnot. But there is also this interesting thing where, like, sometimes they have to ask me. me for resources that is not comfortable for all three of us, right? Like nobody is like eager to have a conversation.

Right. I'm like, all right, we'll talk about it. We can figure it out because there is this interesting thing. I think I asked you this before, mani, and this did not apply. I am, and this extends beyond siblings to family. And a lot of folks in my community will call this what they call a black tax. And it's like, you are a person who is a person who is. able to be of service, and then at what point do you feel like you are being of service

and at what point do you feel like, or am I being taken advantage of in any sort of way? And you may never be taken advantage of, but in your mind, you're sort of going through this sort of calculus of like, if I keep giving, does that mean that no one has the incentive to change behavior to try to sort of do for themselves? Or does it become assumed? Does it become assumed? Like those sorts of things can happen from time to time, which are interesting. But going back specifically to my brother and sister, though, who my mom, what I've learned as I got older,

is that my mom is a very laissez-faire mother. I think she was a laissez-faire mother because she had three children at like 19, 20, and 22. And then she had Brown at 34. So I think my brother and sister actually did help raise me a lot. Right. stuff. But what they did do was make things special. And I see this

because I see it with my wife who makes things special. My wife threw this birthday party. I don't even know if I know how to do that. Like she made something, also because I have an aversion to spending money. We heard that in the roast, too.

Yeah, yeah. Yes, this is very true. I try to make as much as I can so that she can spend it for me. What do we do with all this? Good man. I really do. I was like, I don't know how to spend it.

I'm sure Ryan will figure it out and she makes things. So my mom, like birthday parties and everything, I was like, Mom, we're going to do anything with birthday? She's like, I don't know, what you want to do. It's my brother and sister. My brother and sister, I can remember for a long time my favorite food was lasagna. My brother made this huge lasagna. We had a sleepover with all my friends over.

My sister always got a cake. She always got the balloons. they're the ones that made these things special for us. And not that, like, I wouldn't have missed it if I didn't have it, but, like, I appreciate that they sort of said, like, mom's not going to do it. So we kind of got to do it. So I just want to shout them out.

Have you talked about that with them before? I don't know if I have. But I will now. I will now. Like right now, all the conversations for us, not all of them, or about moms care. Sure. Right.

It's very this is us-ish. And, you know, she has good days, bad days. It's been eight years, right? Since the official diagnosis was in April of 2018. Yeah, I remember. By October of 2018, she couldn't speak, right? Musculature and here had declined to the point where speech wasn't possible anymore. So I FaceTime and I show her the kids and I show her myself and I tell her what's going on with life and she smiles.

Smiling's getting tougher, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like I have, for me now, it's not about bringing joy to mom as much as to my brother and sister because they're there every day. And my brother especially who sees the decline on steady basis, there's bed sores you got to deal with. I think she's about to get it might be dealing with the second case of shingles. Like it's off, right? And so to give him something to think about other than. that. Like he participated in my roast. He was the first person. And he did a good job. Like, I thought he did a great job. It was fun because we make fun of each other all the time.

He has a very large head and make fun of how rectangular it is and how he has corners in his forehead. I was like, that should be smoother. He makes fun of me about licking my lips and all this kind of stuff. But I have a great deal of admiration for the both of them, because I think I'm wired differently. Like, when I go home, like, I can stay with mom all day, like, all day. And then the, the, the, our caregivers will say, like, you know, if you want to step out while we change or what have you. I'm like, cool, you know, there's dignity and you want to give space for that. But I, I don't have to move. Like, I just sit there and hold Arlene's hand and we just kick it, you know. But like what my brother has decided to do in terms of

organizing the caregivers, sort of coming up with the shifts, like he has a camera. She's able to stay home? He has to go out of town from time to time, but he has like a camera in the house. But she's at her house is what I mean. She's in our house. Yes. She's in the house that I grew up in.

Great. She bought in 1975. and I was, you know, 1976 Brown and came into the world. So that is the great joy is that we kind of, all three of us together are able to make something special in terms of like I'm able to help with resources. He does the granular work of it. And then my sister will come in on birthday parties and Mother's Days

and she decorates the room or whatnot. And she comes up with these photo collages, like things that neither one of us would do. You know what I'm saying? Like they're making it special. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. It's something. We've talked about so much on the show about how, you know,

every child is born into a completely different family. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard to, it's hard to even understand that until you start having your own kids. Yes. When you see how different things, how quick things change. Yeah.

And watching these last couple episodes, there's coping mechanisms that we develop, right? And each child who enters a different family has a new set of, of a new kind of love, a new set of challenges, a new path to walk. And we have these mechanisms. And watching, like, the big three on This Is Us, and everybody has this.

I'm not talking about, like, when I say narcissism, I'm not talking about, like, a psychopathy. I'm just talking about, like, self-centered, self-defense. Like, oh, Oh, these three have narcissistic tendencies talking about the big three because their dad died when they were 16. 18. 18. And they now have to pivot and figure out how to survive that.

And a lot of times we turn inward. And narcissism doesn't mean that you think highly of yourself. It means that you think only of yourself. You know, and so like whether it's Kevin's tendencies or Kate's low self-esteem or whatever the thing is. Randall's codependency. Randall's codependency. And so to kind of think about that as it applies to, I know, I've certainly dealt with all kinds of stuff like that. And then to watch my brother deal with his version of that that, you know, is directed at.

me sometimes, directed our parents. It's just kind of interesting as I have, I have a pair of siblings living in my house now. Yeah. And to watch them develop. And already, like at five and three, Efa's now going to Bear's old preschool, and she's already said she doesn't like it because this is Bears'

school. Because as soon as she got there, are you Bear's sister? Oh, your bear's sister. Bear comes to pick her up sometimes and all the day, bear. And so there's like a, I can see it happening, like a framework for her. Already of like that rejection of what's come before because of him. Or something that is only hers or unique to her. And it's like it's not that we need to fight it or change it,

but it's something to be aware of. Sure. Yeah. And to allow her to express. because she is already like, I want to go back to my old school because that's my school. This is bare school. You know, and those types of emotional divisions travel with us into adulthood. Yeah.

I want to be an individual. I want to exist on my own accord. I want to, I don't want to be compared. I don't want to be held up to. I don't, you know. And it's hard to avoid. Yeah. I can, as the youngest, I can remember mom saying, you know,

why can't you be responsible like, like, Armin, and do stuff like this, et cetera? And at a certain point, like, I didn't have to go through the exact same thing because there was more space. I did go to a different school, but my brother was a stud. Like, he was, like, he did, like, martial arts. Like, he was cut to shreds. Like a Greek god. I was like, God, dog, this dude is a beast, right? My sister was a track star, like, she could tumble, she could do flips and everything, and also was a cheerleader as well.

Just like me. Just like me. Just like me. I feel like we learned something new today. That was a detail I wasn't aware of. I love it. I'll get your photos. But there is, there is, I felt like I had enough space.

And also, in terms of the family that you're grown into, like I had a 34-year-old mom versus a 21-year-old mom. Very different. massive night and day. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like there's a certain level of patience that Arlene Brown had with me, even though she brooks no nonsense,

but like patience and wisdom, because we're all older parents are so, I guess not anymore, I guess everybody's waiting longer. That's true. A lot of people are waiting longer. But older than your mom was, older than my parents were. Yeah, I was 35 and 39.

Not a lot of 20-year-old, I don't know a lot of 20-year-old parents. Right, yeah. Yeah. And it does make a difference. Like I do see with Andrew, Andrew Annamar, I was like, oh, there's things that like I can sort of like take a deep breath with right now that I may have reacted to if I was a younger person. You know, I also think my mom was, she had parents. So my brother and sister grew up after she divorced from their dad, went back home with my grandmother and grandfather.

And so that's sort of a license to be out in the streets for a 20-year-old, 20-something-year-old woman. And so, like, they were also raised by my grandparents. And mom was out, sort of, like, hanging out with bands, you know what I'm saying? Asking people what their son was, keeping her pistol in a person in case things got crazy or whatnot. Okay, Arlene. All of that was sort of, like, dormant by the time I came around. Sure. Because my mom was a born-a-green Christian at age 40.

So when I was, by the time I was six years old, I was being asked to pray in tongues for 15 minutes a day. You know what I'm saying? Like, as a completely different lady. different thing, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, I forget that sometimes that they, I think my brother and sister actually had to grow up faster than I did. I actually think my childhood got a chance to be preserved a little bit longer. Because of where your mom was in her life. A couple of different things.

And you can comment on this too many because I'm not sure how old you were when it happened. I think divorce is traumatic. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I saw like how strongly my brother and sister hold on to family. Not to say that I don't, but in a different way because there's a level of stability I had. My mom and dad were married the whole time they were there. You know what I'm saying?

And they weren't going to not be together. So I never worried about like will this foundational thing fall apart. Right. Right. Like it was never a worry of that. But I think my brother and sister have a different sort of like. hold on to it because they know that it can fall apart. Sure.

Right? And so I'm curious for you. How old were you? I was 22. Yeah, but still, it rocked. Did it? My world, it rocked my older brother's world. I rocked all of us.

Yeah. I think it really affected him the most, not to speak out of turn. It affected me as well. And it certainly affected my little brother. I felt like maybe unfairly we had to sort of have alliances with the parent that we thought was my mom left my dad. Yes. So I felt like I had to go to my dad's aid and help him.

I think my younger brother did as well. My older brother sort of floated in the middle, but maybe erred more towards my mom's side. Yeah. And as you get older and have distance and are sort of healing from that initial shock, you realize like, oh, no one, like, no one's like really at fault. necessarily and and she was in pain and my dad was in pain equally and like it's not fair to just like to have abandoned my mom which I did for like a year I was like can't talk to you I'm busy I'm gonna compartmentalize and I have to like help take care of dad who is my parents were high school sweethearts they've been together since they were like 15 they were about to celebrate their 30th

anniversary like yeah it was like it was a huge shock and I also I think being a product of growing up when we all did, and sort of this like divorce generation, that was my greatest fear. Yeah. It was watching all the friends around me whose parents split up and what that looked like. And I'm sure as most children do, like you just, like I had this deep-seated fear of what would happen one day if that was our reality. And I just didn't, I like couldn't fathom it.

Yeah. So even when it did happen and we were older, it's still, it was still a trauma to heal from. And it fractured our family in a way that, like, has never really fully healed. Really? My parents have other partners now, and I love their partners and their families and stuff. But it's like my parents seldom come together. They came together for my wedding.

They'll come together for specific things, but like, occasionally like holidays. but it's normally like, if my mom comes for Thanksgiving, we'll see my dad and stepmom for Christmas. Like, it's not, there's not, and it's not, there's not a lot of, like, animosity. It's just more of like, why do we need to, why do we need to be together, you know? Yeah.

If we can come and have our time with you and the kids, and then my mom and her partner can come and have time with the kids, like it doesn't, there doesn't need to be like a ton of commingling. And in fact, like, there is an awkwardness when they're all together. Like, I'm thinking back now to, like, I think they were there for, like, Ozzy's birthday maybe last year or Gus's. There's, oh, it was Gus's birthday this year. And there's always just, like, a little bit of weirdness. Like, not to speak out of turn.

My parents don't listen to this podcast. But, like, my mom will be a little bit, like, cozy. Try to get, like, cozy with my dad or, like, talk about the inside jokes or whatever that they had. And I'm like, lady, what are you doing? Read the room. Read the room. Yeah. You're married, he's married, like, we don't need to, you know.

Stop floating. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So I'm always a little bit like, aye, yay, and then my dad and I will download afterwards. And he's like, you're a mom. I'm like, I know. She means well. But yeah, it's all as well that ends well. But that initial trauma of the splintering of the family and the separation, it's like it was a lot.

And it's, you said the divorce generation. It's so interesting to think that our parents, right, who quote unquote, when divorce started becoming more common, came from an era where divorce was not as prevalent. But what was prevalent was two people living together for their entire life who hated each other. Sleeping in separate bedrooms sometimes. They just openly hated each other. Yeah. Yeah. Resented each other.

Didn't want to be together. Yeah. Yeah. And so like what it's, which is more traumatizing? You know what I mean? It's it's so, it's so hard. Yeah. Yeah. It's staying together and hating each other. Here's a question for you, Chris, like, because I saw your parents when we did our, our live podcast. That's right. And they seem like they're pretty healthy. Like they're, they're, they're octogenarians or septuagenarians? Both. They're both. One's there, one's there. Is there any conversation? that you and your brother have to have with regards to, like, what happens when mom and dad reach this place? Or is that not anything that is trans-rived? Yeah, we haven't gotten. We haven't gotten there yet.

Yeah, same. My parents aren't 70 yet. They're almost there. They're not? That's wild. Jiminy Christmas, man. How old were they when you were born? 24?

24, I think. Yeah. Yeah. They're almost there. 69. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 26? I'm 26. That's right. Yeah. That's crazy. So they're just in their, they're in their 40. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. They're 40. 41. Yeah. The other thing that's that is that as I've gotten

older, that kind of blows my mind think, like philosophically speaking, it's like, we are living with our siblings. Yeah. Out of circumstance. These two people who love each other. Yeah. Had us. Right. And there's a certain mindset that people have like, well, you're brothers or your siblings. Yeah. So you love each other. And it's like, yes. Obviously, sure.

But to try to force some kind of like romantic idea of what it means to be a brother and a sister. And like, I guess in my head I always just thought like, oh, brothers and sisters just are like best friends. Or they're like, they always get along. Because that's what brothers and sisters do. That's how they're on TV and movies. It's not. When in fact, it's like two individuals growing up together. Yeah.

And they don't always grow closer. No. And you don't need to force it. And a lot of the times, like, I could, the friction that happens, at least between me, my brother's like trying to force that and be like, we're different. We like different things. My brothers and I are very different. In fact, we don't see each other as often as I would like.

We did just have dinner earlier this week. But like it's been so long since like just the three of us because it's always like, come see the kids. Or like, we'll all go out to dinner because mom's here. And so there's always like partners and, you know, other people. But it's interesting because then I have this example of my husband who is five years older than his brother. He works with his brother.

He and his brother are in a band together. Taylor has Griffin, his brother, on a pedestal in a way that I've never experienced any sort of sibling relationship. His opinion matters more probably than mine. Hot take. Hot take. He just, he loves his brother with such a fervor. His opinion, oh yeah, there's me and Scott and Kyle. Yeah, having we had dinner.

He loves his brother with so much. intention and his, yeah, his opinion matters the most. He considers him. Like, it's, and it's so interesting. And, you know, because they work together, we're just like, they're, they're a part of our lives in a more, like, meaningful way, him and his wife and their son than, like, my brothers are. And maybe because they have a kid as well and they live closer to us or whatever. But it is just interesting then to juxtapose, like, my relationship with my brothers and then seeing Taylor with his brother. I'm like, oh, wow, this is like, they're very, just very, very different. That's interesting.

My wife is an only child as she was raised, but we found her sister, a biological sister when she was 34 years old. So at the end of the roast, she got up and she's the person who showed all the plaques, but we didn't meet her until we were 34 right before we had Andrew because we found Ryan's biological father. And that's Ryan's biological's father. And that's Ryan's biological's father's daughter. Was that all, how did that, was that all through, like, 23 and me? What was that? No, it was a conversation with Claire, my mother-in-law, who also made a toast at the birthday party.

And Ryan asked her, like, is there a possibility that he, this is a quick story. For the first 34 years of her life, Ryan and Michelle Bathay thought that she was biracial. her, the father on her birth certificate, his name is Michael Baithy. He's a German man from St. Louis, Missouri. Ryan was about to have a baby. She wanted to know the medical history. She's like, are you sure there's nobody else that could possibly be my dad? She said, there's one person who could be, you can look him up while you're in St. Louis.

We go to the St. Louis Galleria. She meets the man. I'm doing last minute Christmas shopping or what have you. And she says, you should come to the Cheesecake Factory and say hi. I guess like, Ryan, we know who your dad is. It's no big deal. I go sit down at the Cheesecake Factory. I sit down, I was like, that's your dad.

This is your dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You look exactly like this man. And then so he called his daughter, Leslie, and then Leslie comes over and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this is crazy. So Ryan growing up as an only child, just juxtaposing things, like it's interesting because there is a certain level of, what's the word?

sometimes it's an act of sheer will to be in relationship with people. Yes. Period. Right? We get a chance to choose each other. Yes. My mom used to always say, if you can deal with family, you can deal with anybody because family is not chosen.

Yeah. It is sort of like what is hoisted upon you. Yeah. And you just sort of have to work with it, right? Yeah. Like I feel like, Ryan, growing up as an only child, she was like, oh, well, I can just be by myself. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, she's very good. It just sort of like going into a corner and da-da-da-da. Where I was like, no, part of this thing is that you have to like be in relationship to people. Sometimes even when it's uncomfortable, right? Like I think our show is a lot about that. Yeah. Like about the discomfort of still being in relationship with people.

Because I don't know what the ultimate lesson is, but I think that I think we're meant to be, I think we're relational human beings. Sure. It can be easier to sort of self-sequester, but I don't think that it is ultimately as fulfilling. And I don't want to sort of glorify it or whatnot because there are all kinds of ups and downs that come with these sibling relationships, right? There are times in which my brother and sister drive me nuts.

I drive them nuts. But I'm telling you right now, because I'm a little bit ahead of you just because of the age of mom, and the illness or whatnot. So glad we have each other right now. Yeah. So, so glad. Like, it would be a lot to deal with on my own.

Yeah. Or for my brother or for my sister, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. You want to get in a hot takes or something? Oh, geez. Hot take. Hot take on the hot takes.

Hot takes. Only. Sibling edition. Hot take. Only children are weird. Right on. I got to get the right emphasis on that. Only children are weird.

Only children are weird. Listen, the wife I just said is an only child. She's interesting. She's an interesting bird because, like, I don't know. The ability to just go off and not be bothered is strong. I'm saying I love an only child. I don't think it's fair to say weird. I didn't say, I said interesting.

No, no, no, I'm the hot take here. Yeah, yeah. I think that's an unfair description. Like, there is a specificity to that experience of being an only child that none of us could pretend to know what it's like. You live with an only child, but, but yeah, to call them weird, that doesn't feel fair. It's not their fault. But they are unique.

Like, I think I can pick out an only child when I meet somebody. What do you think? What are the key determining? They are self. possessed in a way that seems untainted by the presence of another personality being raised. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In a way that makes them confident, in a way that makes them decisive.

It's going back to the word narcissism, they think about themselves differently because they were never in comparison. In relation to them. They never had to fight for attention. Yeah. They always had good, good, bad, or otherwise. Yeah. I like an only child. Me too.

What's the next one? Those weirdos. We got. Hot take. Siblings raised in the same house had completely different parents. We already agreed. Yeah, we agreed. Not too hot.

Not too hot. We want to do the same. Siblings know exactly how to hurt each other. Oh, sure they do. Yeah, yeah. They know the bruise and exactly how to twist the knife a little bit. Yeah. Because they know how the bruise got there.

Yeah. Exactly. Sometimes they put the bruise there. Yep. Oh, yeah. Then they can come back here. Where did I put that bruise? I put it right here.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Hot take. Yeah. Birth order affects your personality more than people admit. I will admit in my case, I think that's true. Yeah. I mean, I think it affects people differently.

Yeah. Depending on the parent they get, you know, when like a firstborn, a firstborn who had parents who were 40 when they were born. versus parents who were 20 when you were born is going to have a different experience. Sure. Do you remember before your brother was born? I was thinking about this, as this episode was coming up,

I definitely have early memories of, I remember my brother coming home from the hospital. Okay. So I was three and a half. Okay. Is that your first memory? I mean, it might be. It's close to it.

Okay. But I definitely don't remember, like, doing something and in my brain, I can't, I don't have a memory where I go, where's Brian in this memory? Right. You know what I mean? He's there. Okay. Like, I remember being at home with my grandmother sitting in the living room when my brother came home.

Wow. That's so sweet. What's the next one? The youngest sibling gets the most emotionally available version of the parents. That was my case. That feels. That was my case. That's a hot take.

That is a hot take. I don't think that that's always the case. speaking from experience? Exactly, exactly. But this is anecdotal. Yeah. This is, this is, it was definitely my case, but I'm talking about there's a 12-year gap between the age, the age difference.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She had some life experience. She had some life experience. Sort of like, got and everything out that she wanted to get out from you. Got some Jesus. For sure.

Yeah. Little Jesus went a long way. I mean. A little dabble do you? Yeah, I feel like Lou is getting maybe not the most, maybe an emotionally available parent, but I am in an, exhausted parent. Do you feel with them,

with them sort of boom, boom, boom, do you feel like the level of, what's the word I'm talking about, caution has like gone down? Oh, completely. Yeah. Even from one to two, you guys know that.

It's like, yeah. Not a question. A little dirt won't hurt him? Yeah. Yeah. Front flip down the stairs? She'll be fine. What's next?

Oh. siblings can love each other deeply and still not like each other. Sure. Yeah, I think that's what I was saying. Yeah. It's like, and it has, it's not hate each other. Yeah. It's just like, you are a different person.

Would I choose your company if we just met each other out in the world? Correct. Correct. Yeah. Oftentimes, the answer is no. Oftentimes. Oftentimes, that's true. That's 80% of the time.

But I love you. Deeply. Yes. Deeply. Yes. Yeah. Sibling relationships get better once everyone moves out. Oof.

I feel like, gosh, yeah, maybe that's not always the case. Yeah. Is it for you? No. No. Hard to tell because the proximity is so infrequent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're still here.

We all move from Florida, L.A. Yeah, but I, I, no. And in fact, like, we all did live together again at a certain point. Yeah. Yeah. My brothers and I. We did. You did?

Yeah, out here in L.A. They moved into my house. We all lived together. This was years ago. Really? A long time ago in those feelists. There's a TV show. There's a TV show.

Waiting it happens. Yeah. Mom and dad moved back to Florida. Older brother moved out. Younger brother was already there. So, yeah, it was great. It was awesome. There's, I will say,

there is a certain tendency as the youngest, especially with this gap, for them to see me as like, baby bro, little bro, and it sort of evaporates over time as we've gotten older. Sure. Like there was a certain sort of like patronizing that I felt for a long time and then I made more money.

And then it went away. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So yeah, that's good. Hot take, parents absolutely have favorite children. I'd say not all parents. Not all parents. Arlene has a favorite kid.

My mom does. Smart parents. My mom does. And then if you ask me who my favorite child is, I will ask you what day. Because who's with you at the time. Which moment? Which moment? You know what I'm saying?

Because it will go like this throughout the day because they're both awesome and they can both just rub the shit out of me. Yes. Do your brother and sister, are they offended knowing that you're the favorite or they don't care? I think they just accept it as like. I'd be bugged by that. I would say, but maybe the age gap makes it feel like a completely different category. Like apples and oranges. You're the forever baby and so of course you're the favorite.

Yeah. Something like that. Because like with Rob, my little brother, like doesn't bother me at all. Yeah. Like I love seeing Rob make my mom lie up. Yeah. And when they were 14 and you were a baby. I was a baby.

It's like, of course all of the attention is going to go to you. Sure. In my mind, it makes more sense. Right. Yeah. Then if like a five-year-old and a three-year-old, or like, well, you. Yeah, totally.

I had, I had an aunt come to our house, my wife's aunt, and tell one of my kids that he was her favorite. I made me so mad. Yeah. In front of the other? No, no, just said it to him or whatnot. But, like, would treat the other one like crap. Oh, dude.

In your house? In my house. Oh, that's not okay. That's not okay. Time to go. Time to go. You got to go. Tootles.

Got to go, got to go, got to go right now. Tootles. What's next? Siblings can disappear from each other's lives without there being drama. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean, I guess, I guess, well, the disappearance in itself is an act of drama.

Yeah. Right? Is, uh. Yeah, but I mean, I'm just, I'm thinking of like other people I know in my life and their relationships with siblings and. and half-siblings and stuff like that. And it's like maybe it's just you're functionally not close with one another. You're not really a part of each other's lives.

So in effect, when there are long periods of time where you don't see each other or talk to each other, it's not dramatic. It's just sort of like we're not close. So I live here. Family lives in St. Louis. Like I call at least once a month. I talk to my brother and sister, right? At least once a month.

And I could tell that sometimes some of them would want me to call a little bit more, right, to feel a little bit more connected or whatnot. How often do they call? My brother calls pretty frequently. And then my sister will call less frequently because I think she knows that she's waiting for me to reach out first. Because my sister is a verbose woman. Concision is not like her strong suit. And so I've had seven-hour conversations with my sister. What?

Where I've probably said less than 100 words. Seven hours? Yeah. Hot take. What's next? Family roles never fully go away even in adulthood. Sure? Yeah.

I would say that's true. I think that sticks to you a little bit. Ram Dass says, if you think you're enlightened, go spend 48 hours with your family. That's a good one. I like that. It's like, as soon as you think you've like arrived at some level of people. It's true. And go stay in your parents' house for two days.

Yeah. Then come back and talk to me. And see how quickly everybody. 48 hours is more than enough. Falls back in line. Yeah. Hot take. The oldest child grows up faster than they should have to.

It depends on the family, I guess. Yeah. Depends on the situation. I would say my brother is who, I would say he's the oldest. And I think like, also because he sort of wanted it. Like I think he grew up in the shadow of my grandfather, not the shadow, but under my grandfather's sort of tutelage.

And I think the patriarch that he was, is something that my brother really makes you want to be. Makes you want to be mature enough to be in the presence of that person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas, like, my first memory is, like, my grandfather being taken to the hospital, like the day he passed away. Yeah. And so I never had my ideas of,

what it means to be a man, are very different than my brothers. Sure. Sure. And so I think he did grow up faster. Yeah. For sure. How take the sibling who moved away usually heals first. This is interesting.

Guys, I'm the only one who's moved away. Everybody else lives in St. Louis. Now, my brother went to college in Boston, Northeastern University. My sister went to Missou, which is only three hours away or whatnot. And I don't know how much I had to heal from. from. Like I feel like my mom did a really good job of providing an environment for her son to flourish and grow and to explore all the things that I wanted to explore. But I do feel like I have a different perspective on things. Yeah. Because I'm not in St. Louis. I think the word heal might be.

Yeah. I might change the word heel because heel implies that there's intrinsic damage done. Mm-hmm. Or trauma or something else. But I think the, I think that the sibling who moves away usually evolves differently. Evolves differently. Yeah. That's good. Different. You know, you go somewhere else and you're just around different people.

Yeah. Different mindsets, different beliefs, different life experience, whatever it is. And so you're just getting different input than the sibling that just stays home. Stays home. Or stays in the same city to grow up. Which is also fine. Yeah. Like not one better or worse, it's just, like, it's different.

And it can maybe cause friction, yeah. That's it. That's it. Hot take. Hot take. He is risen. He's good. So that was, that, that is an attempt at a new format.

Chat was us. Chat was us. Let us know in the comments, how you feel about, uh, I enjoyed this new format. Yeah. And I hope you enjoyed it a day early on Hulu. Did you know you can do that now? Yeah, are you checking us out a day early on Hulu? Monday.

Monday. And then the pod comes out on Tuesdays wherever you listen to your podcast. But you should be watching us on Hulu. It's way more fun. I enjoy it. I know, like this was a conversation I think we toyed around with for a while or whatnot. And we all have like very different dynamics around the sibling sort of issue. And I think we were all able to talk about it candidly and forthrightly.

Yeah. As we do with every with every. Everything on this show. Yeah. I love it. This is how we get down, man. Yeah. We got an oldest.

We got a middle. We got a youngest. We got a baby. Represent all of it. Yeah. I don't even know who looks in the camera. Chris, you under? Oh, well, also, we should just remind people, too, to, if you want to send us a question, comment, or concern.

Yeah. That was us. That was us. That was right. That was right. Speakpipe.com slash that was us. There you. That's right.

Speakpipe.com. slash that was us if you want to leave us like a voicemail. Yeah, what do you want, what do you want us to chat about? Yeah, we'll chat about anything. Yeah, we'll chat about anything. We can do it. Literally. But yeah, if there's a certain aspect of this is us that you want us to dive deeper into, let us know.

Yeah. And chat was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us. That was a hate gum podcast.