That Was Us - Deja and Malik's Big News | "Heart and Soul" with Jon Huertas (605)

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 6, Episode 5: Heart and Soul. As Rebecca opens herself up to life after loss, Kate and Rebecca navigate a painful shift in their relationship, Kevin searches for the right path forward, and Randall learns how hard it is to let go of the people you love. In this episode, the hosts chat about: - Jon and Chris' scripted sci-fi audio podcast - Chris Sullivan’s experience directing the episode and the “scaffolding” that came with directing a show he already knew so well - The cast members who got the chance to direct or write during the final season -The very important question: how do you actually pronounce “asterisk”? They also break down the episode, including: - Rebecca’s speed-dating experiment - Kate and Rebecca's fight and Ithe fallout that followed - Kate confronting Rebecca about her illness and the fear of leaving her alone with the kids - The meaning behind the episode’s title, “Heart and Soul” - Kevin reuniting with Cassidy and the harsh truth she tells him - The emotional final montage of Rebecca and Kate at the piano across three different stages of their lives And a friendly reminder, you can catch new episodes of That Was Us every Monday, a day early, exclusively on Hulu. Available on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts on Tuesdays like usual! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Once you try Magnetic Me clothing for your little ones, you’ll never want to go back to buttons or zippers! New customers can get 15% off sitewide at https://magneticme.com - Right now, save up to 30% on mattresses and up to 35% on everything else when you go to https://Casper.com. - Fatty15 is on a mission to support Healthy Aging for All, including all ages and stages of life. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to https://fatty15.com/THATWASUS and using code THATWASUS at checkout. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season six, episode five, heart and soul. As Rebecca opens herself up to life after loss, Kate and Rebecca navigate a painful shift in their relationship. Kevin searches for the right path forward, and Randall learns how hard it is to let go of the people that you love. Hello, hello. The sweet, dulcet tones of John Wirtis. What? So good to have you with us, buddy.

It's great to be here. Thank you. Let me take my glasses off so I look much cooler. No, you look cool. Hold on. Put it back on. Put it back on. Are they cool? Yeah, they're red.

They're red. Oh, yeah. They're great. What do they say? They're a vibe? They're a vibe. I mean. Can I see that?

I just saw myself. You did. I guess. You did. You did. I think I've ruined it. Maybe take them off now. Yeah.

That was my fault. That's not the glasses's fault, nor you're all sully. It was my fault. Sterling is shooting. or he doesn't want to hang out with us, one of the two. In fact, I don't know what he's doing. He just said, sorry, not available. Not available.

We're like, okay, well, this is what's happening? When I texted him, he was like, who's this? Yeah. And I'm like, new phone to this. Never mind, can you do a podcast? And he's like, not available. Not available. I said, I haven't told you when it is.

And he said, don't worry, not available. Sounds like Sterling. Yeah, it sounds like Sterling. We'll get the person we wanted in the first place. Correct. Sorry, that was too expensive when you guys first started this thing. Thanks for doing us a favor. How's it going, man?

Good, very good. Yeah, looking forward to doing this. You're getting into this podcast game. I am. I just saw Chris. We did a podcast together, a scripted podcast. You did? An audio series.

Oh, cool. Yeah, an original audio series, a sci-fi thing. John's jumping on this game. He's leading the charge on a podcast called. It's called the McGuire Incident. And it's inspired by rumored events. So just like, you know. Extraterrestrial.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, wow. Just like Roswell in New Mexico, there was another incident in New Jersey that is rumored to have happened within the military community, within the community around the Air Force Base called McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey. And so there's a writer-director whose father was part of this police department in this town. that supposedly happened. I don't want to give away too much, but...

What year are we talking? 1978. Chris plays a character. He actually plays, I wouldn't say my nemesis. So we have a wife played by Jennifer Morrison, my ex-wife, played by Jennifer Morrison, and Chris plays her new boyfriend, and I play the dad of the main kid,

who's played by a wonderful actor named Wyatt O'Leff, People know him from It and lots of other things. But yeah, we recorded here in L.A. in New York. And, yeah, we're in post right now. How many episodes is this thing? It's 12 episodes. 12 episodes. The next hit podcast.

How, like how long? Each episode will be about 35 to 40 minutes. Wow. This is so cool. I can't wait to listen to you guys. It should be really good. It's a vibe. That's a vibe.

It's a vibe. It's a vibe. It's a real vibe. I can't read. Yeah, it's got comedy. Chris Sullivan. Comedy chops. It's got drama.

It's got action. Got everything you want. I don't know how action plays out in audio. We'll see. I mean, it's about getting people engaged. Yeah. So they want to just, you know, binge it from episode to episode. That's right.

To give you guys an update on my journeys through midlife, I've upgraded my prescriptions to progressives. Oh. Oh, yeah. How's that working out? I mean, I haven't gotten them yet. These are still just single vision, but I know our listeners have been really interested in, what's that? Am I magnified to you right now? No, but you're crystal clear.

Oh, that, okay. You're still, you're still objects, objects and glasses are the same size as they appear. Okay. You're not magnified, but you are crystal clear. But I'm crystal clear. Otherwise, that'd be blurry. That's right. Because I don't wear, I wear, these are like readers, but they're progressives.

So that's, okay, but that's what you just ordered. It's progressive. Yeah. Went to Costco. Went to Costco. Because you need readers. Because when I'm checking these scripts, like right now, can't barely read this. Got it.

Can't barely read it, you guys. Interesting. Yeah, 46, man. 45 was fine. 46. Something happens. A whole new ball of wax. I feel like that's what Sterling was saying.

I do, I do. I've worn contacts like most of my life. Okay, cool. But I am nearsighted. You hide them well. You hide them in your eyes. I hide them in my eyes. If you got really close, you could.

see him. Yeah, I am near-sided, but I'm sure that the far-sided side of things is not too, and the not too distant future, as it were. You're so much younger. I have 42. That's coming for me, too. I got a couple years. But I feel like Sterling was talking about how everything just, like, really took a turn for him at like 50. He was like, 40 was fine. Yeah. 41, body fell apart. Really? Now I've got that fixed. And 46, eyesight, just like a light switch. Wow, this is so fascinating. Yeah. Is it?

I do. I find it fascinating how literally everything is fine. I'll say I find myself talking about it a lot, but I also think, what, Natalie? Oh, wrap it up. Do not, do you, don't you dare, don't you dare, twirl your finger around in the air to tell me to wrap it up? Moving on. It's what I'm going through, Natalie. Well, this is a very special episode.

Yes. Because this is an episode, the episode of This Is Us that you directed. Yes, and directed well. Thank you. Tell us everything. Tell us the preparation. And we can also let the listeners know that when this season was approaching, Dan sort of sent the bat signal out to all of us and asked,

what would we like to do in this last season? Bit of a rap gift. Yeah. For those that wanted to direct, some wanted to write. Yeah, who Chrissy and Susan both wrote. Yeah. You and I directed, you had been directing. Yeah.

But did you direct again this season? Yes, you did. Yeah. Yeah, did. Your third episode? Second. Second. Second.

Milo directed his second episode this season. Justin directed, I think, his second episode as well. I believe you, Justin and Milo had all done episodes previously. Yeah. Right. And Sterling says, who's this? Sorry, I'm unavailable. Yeah, totally.

Sterling was like, I'm too busy. I don't want to do anything. So he was the only one of us that opted out of doing anything. Chrissy and Sue chose to write an episode. Sterling was like, I'm already doing my thing. Yeah. This is how much more do you want from me? Yeah, exactly.

You can have all the awards. But thinking about preparing for an episode of directing television, what did that entail? for you. I mean, emotionally and. Yes. Emotionally, I was. And the checklist.

Definitely nervous. Obviously, didn't want to let anybody down. I will say I've realized that being on the show for five years, then getting to direct, there was a huge amount of scaffolding around me. Yeah, there was a huge safety net. That would not be there had I been asked to direct, just be a guest director on a TV. show. Sure.

Right. So there's a bit of an asterisk by the director. Wait. Is that how you pronounce that? Asterisk. I thought it was asterix. It's asterix. Damn it.

It's asterisk. Is it? This is interesting right now. Asterisk? Asterisk. How? I've always mispronounced it. Asteris.

Asteris. Yeah. How do you think it's spelled? I don't know. Spell it the way. way you say it. I just see the first letter the last letter in the word.

Here's how you say. A-X-T-R-I-X. Extrix. Extricks. Yeah. Asterix. Asterisk. I know how to say it from now. That sounds like you're freaking.

You're doing your sk thing. No, that's an asterisks. Nothing makes John laugh harder than that vocal. That vocal bit. Okay, tell people the vocal bit, though. Well, the vocal bit came from my buddy Jerome and his brothers, and there's two things you can put on the end of word, a PSK or an ERA. And it depends on the wordera.

Wurtero, which one you're on you. Okay. You have to figure out, which one goes on which word or row. Yeah. Anyways, it makes John, it makes John, and it makes me so happy. I thought it was asterix. But yes, okay.

So I've learned something today. So there's a bit of an asterisk by my. By your name. There's a bit of an asteripera. If you will. By my director credit. I understand and I feel the same way. Absolutely.

My handicap was way higher. Because we had Yasu. One we had Yassu who's like, one Yasu is just like shot list. Shot list. No, I remember. I was like I had like my, I didn't have things storyboarded out, but I had like my shot list. And he takes it of you. He says, this is great.

And he puts it aside. Yeah, he like barely looks at it. Anyway. I'm going to do what I need to do. And if I'm honest, Ken Olin before I went there, he told me really not to worry about it. He's like, don't worry about a shot list. I mean, you know. what kind of coverage you want.

But Yasu is going to take care of it anyways. So that's fine. I wanted to obviously go through the process. So John was actually my go-to mentor. Mentor on this. The app, which apps to get, the processes. You know, when I got my first edit back, and I called John.

You thought your episode threw up on the screen. I said, this is garbage, John. It's straight garbage. I was there. These are great actors, and I've ruined this show. I was like, take a breath. Everything's going to be fine. Throttle back, sparky.

Yeah, yeah. And he goes, but you had told me that too. Because I remember you saying that to me on your first episode. You were like, this is so slow. The editor does their cut first. Right. Yes. Not taking away from the editor.

No, no, no, no. No, but they assemble what you did. They do their assembly. Yep. And then you get your cut. But the editor is. It's not that the editor is putting together a bad cut. They're showing you what you got.

Yeah. And they are not imposing their opinion on what you got. Correct. And so then you have to sit there and look at it. It's dry. There's no slow. There's no music. It's too long.

There's maybe scenes and shots that you're like, well, in my mind, I was never going to include that. Yeah. So it's. But I will say, Right here at the top, it's maybe the most fun I've ever had on set. Really? Yeah. Because acting involves a lot of self-consciousness and process.

So it certainly is fun. I certainly enjoy it. But I felt free through this process. And I would show up and all my friends were there. You know what I mean? Totally. And we got to talk. Well, there's a problem-solving aspect.

Yeah. That's what to me directing is. Yeah. You've got a, like this booklet of pages. Yep. And you've got to make those pages look like, like video or like, you know, like, that's a problem. How do you make words on a piece of paper come to life? Come to life.

That's a problem. So how do you solve the problem? And then you've got all these other people that are helping you solve the problem. And there's, you know, they're all asking you questions. So you get to be kind of like the lead problem solver. Yeah. You know, because all those department heads are like, you know, how. How do you see us accomplishing this?

Is that what you felt? Yeah. And I guess being the personality type that maybe we all are is I love problem solving, especially when there are other people presenting the problem, figuring out what the problem is, and just being like, so is it A or B? Will it's B? Okay, great. Like if I'm in charge of the whole process,

where I have to identify the problem, come up with three solutions for the problem, and then pick a solution. Maybe I don't enjoy that as much. Yeah, that sounds way more daunting. It sounds like parenting. It's like multiple choice. It's like, like, you've got like, like, like you said, AB or ABC. And like because, you know, you get presented with choices by department heads. You know, you've got a writer, you know, with different words on a page. It's like multiple choice. So it's an easy. It's an easy way to. And I got paired up with Julia Brownell. on this episode. She's amazing. The best. She's funny. She's smart. She's,

you know, such a talented writer. Beautiful. Yeah. Great runner. Yeah. Marathon runner. Great runner.

So I had a blast. I had a blast. And I think the very first day of shooting was, was the first, I think the very, as far as I can remember, was this scene with you guys. With Miguel.

Did you? No, no. With Miguel and Rebecca in the living room. Oh, on the couch. On the couch. That was your first day? I think so. I think my first shot was with Teen Kate in her bedroom.

She was putting on some makeup and clearly having a hard time looking at herself in the mirror or looking in the mirror and not liking what she sees. And she comes out into the living room and finds Miguel and Rebecca. Watching who wants to be a millionaire. Loving it. Loving watching who wants to be a millionaire. I mean, I remember being obsessed with it. Appointment television. People don't even know what that means today. Also, I feel like was there a computer?

computer game too. I think there was a computer game because I used to love to play who wants to be a millionaire. Right, it was just like a trivia game. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. But yeah, back when there was appointment television.

You know, people lost their minds when that show came on. Yeah. Like, like... A million dollars? A million dollars? A million dollars today is nothing. They don't do that.

Yeah, yeah. They're like, what? In fact, is there another show since that offers one million dollars as a prize? I think who wants to be a millionaire comes and goes. Like, it's still on.

Every once in a while. It's the only show where you can do that. One of a million bucks. And Miguel and Rebecca are loving it in classic middle-aged fashion. Yeah. I think this is the first visual of them where you see them settling in. Kind of, right? Like really like, oh, they spend a lot of time together.

Yeah. This shows that they're spending a lot of time together. And that things seem lighter. Way lighter. At least for Rebecca. There's this moment at the end of the scene when I think Kate says something about, you know, you guys are going to do this like for the rest of your lives or something like sit on the couch. You can't just.

No, Miguel says that. Miguel says that to Rebecca. And she and Mandy has this subtle, subtle look. They're like, maybe I can. A nice little foreshadowing. Yeah, yeah. Because Miguel's trying to get Rebecca out of the house. Oh, that's right.

It's me who said it. Kate tells us we're sad. First thing I'm watching it wants to be a millionaire. And I'm like, what? I go up with my work friends. Like, I went and had a margarita this week and you're still dating margarita. Like, you have a girlfriend or whatever. So we're not doing so bad.

And then I say, one margarita. I think it's time for you to get out there. That's what I say. And then it's when I suggest the feeding. It's time. We can't sit around on the couch like this for the rest of our lives or something. And she's like, can we? Maybe we can.

What's wrong with that? I like who wants to be a millionaire. Yeah. There's something, yeah, there's a sweet little wink. She's like, I'm sitting next to a future millionaire. Yeah. So there's a speed dating event that Miguel is going to attend. Would you guys ever do something like this?

This is my nightmare. I surely, I surely would have. If I was y'all's age in 1997. Yeah, when this is. 99, 98, 99, yeah. You'd have been all about it. I'd have been in there. Really?

Well, yeah, me and Miguel, we'd have showed up with our matching fedoras because neither one of us would have had the good sense to tell the other not to wear it. Not to wear that. Yeah. I'm glad that Rebecca was like, no hat. Yeah, you have nice hair. That was such a nice compliment. Yeah.

I would never have done that. No. No. I most certainly would have. Wow. I don't think I, yeah. Kudos to you, ma'am. That is.

Well, kudos. I don't know about kudos. Although that was a good snack in 1997. Did you guys ever have a kudos? Oh my God. I've been thought about kudos in like 30 years. Holy cow. Oh, this is good stuff.

I forgot about kudos, man. They definitely had kudos at Speed Day Day. Absolutely, bowl of kudos. Boa kudos, the peanut butter. Okay, guys, we have this new granola bar. It's covered in chocolate. We need a name. I don't know.

How about kudos? Everybody wants their kudos. I love it when I get kudos. Give kudos to people. What a weird word. Yeah, when you say it more than once. Cudos? Which came first?

Kudos the snack or kudos? No, you're giving someone their kudos. That's a real word. Which is now a transfer. Like, you know, like, you're someone with their flowers. Was that a Greek word? Yeah, what? Where does kudos come from?

We have a new protein bar. What should we call it? Flowers. We'll call it flowers because everyone loves to get their flowers. Yeah. Now, it doesn't work the same. No, it doesn't. What if you give a bouquet of the,

of the bars. Bucay of flowers. Bucay of kudos. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know the same way you can skip an ad.

I get it. I'm Siaiaa and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently,

That's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. I think if I would have been on a speed dating thing, that I would have been more like Matt Dixon. And like, you know, where he's supposed to move on to the next. But he reaches back like, hey, can we get some coffee? Miguel cleans up.

Miguel cleans up at us. You know he does. Yeah, you're just like making fans left, right and center. Miguel had digits. Yeah. Because you know at the end of the- He got numbers. At the end of the speed dating things.

If you wanted any. The way it works, right, is you have your list of people that you speed date and you check off who you connected with at the end. Yeah. And then the speed dating, whatever, connects you with that. Yeah, the event itself. It's essentially Bumble. It's like analog Bumble. Yeah.

Analog apps. That's where the app came from. I'm just now realizing. That's what it is. Oh, yeah. That's why I would have been more like Matt who's like, no, I like that girl. I want to, you know. Yeah.

I made the connection. I don't want you to tell me who. So let's jump. Let's jump to the event. We're at the event. You two roll up. You're definitely a little. A apprehensive.

For sure. About it. This was one of this. So as when you get to direct an episode, you not only get to go on a location scout, which was one of my most fun days. Yeah. I was in a van with Ken Olin and Yasu. Oh, Ken went with you.

Yeah, because he was making sure everything was going right. Right, right. He bought us all ice cream. Thank you, Daddy. And we picked this location, which was like this Greek restaurant or whatever, some nightclub that we made look like a Greek restaurant. But casting, there wasn't a lot of casting in this episode. Except for. Except for the speed dating.

The speed dating participants. Oh, that's right. which I got to watch tapes of. And I was actually really looking forward to the casting portion, but this was really the only part that needed any casting. And we'll get to, he's not listed here, and I wish he was, and maybe Natalie can figure out who he is when we get to it. It was also incredibly fun to shoot,

because it was very fast-paced, and it was Rebecca kind of light-heartedly talking about her dead husband. Yeah, I was like, well, why am I here? I'm single. Why am I single? Well, my husband died. And it's, yeah, you just keep cutting. It gets progressively more and more glib.

Yeah. And it wasn't the smoke inhalation. It was the heart attack. Yeah, they call it a widow maker. The widow maker. Yeah, it gets worse and worse. Yeah, house fire. I know.

Sad, sad, sad. And it was the one moment in the show where I kind of got to sit back and like watch you just rattle off these. lines and then throw out some different ones. Yeah. There were definitely a few that went too far, which obviously didn't make it in there. I'm trying to remember what, I kept trying to get you to say worse and worse things. Yeah.

I don't remember. Yep. Dead. Lost the whole house. Yeah, everything. It was funny. Up in flames. Yeah.

It was some comedy. That was fun. That was a really fun day. It was a fun day. Yeah. And for as complicated as it was, it was pretty easy. shoot because you sat on one side of the table and these guys would just filter through sure and look at you like a crazy person yeah until who uh who sits down Miguel sits down across

from you and it's like oh if we don't yeah if we don't find anybody in the next like you know time or two like let's just call it a day this is it was it was but one of the things that hit me on this that that maybe didn't I mean it landed obviously at the time but it really hit me this time was He says, hi, I'm a single dad. My children live thousands of miles away from me and they hate me. Oh, that's interesting. My husband died in a house fire. The intimacy that you just are like, oh, right, they know each other.

And it's like, why are they trying so hard with this? Why are they trying so hard? Right there it is. Yeah. We already have been through it. We've been through it together. You know me. You know all my shit.

I know all yours. Sure. And it's just like a moment of like, oh, there they are. There's the couple. Yeah. And you say, yeah, if this next one's a dud. Let's move on. Let's get out of here.

And who sits down this time is a wonderful actor. Mr. PTA named Matt Corby. Yeah. MacCorpi who played Matt Dixon. Who's also on the land. Is he really? Yeah. I got to hang out with him for six months too, yeah.

And they give us a little flashback. in the in the previously on this is us quick side note I don't know if we ever talked about this I definitely have a recording of me saying previously on this is us yeah no recollection of recording it I feel like we did it very very early days in ADR in ADR yeah when you're going to replace dialogue for folks that don't really know what that is when a scene has been cut or a line wasn't recorded properly or something and you have to replace the dialogue. Additional dialogue replacement.

Yes. That's what ADR is. And occasionally we didn't do much on this show. Nope. Mainly because we were recording on sound stages a lot, where the sound is a little more protected and reliable than it is when you're out in an open field with an airport, like planes flying over you, that's when you tend to have to replace a lot of the dialogue. But I believe that we did record all of our versions of

previously on This Is Us. Probably when you replaced Mike with Miguel on that same series. Miguel. Miguel. I am. I am. I am. And so, Matt, we see in the previously on This Is Us is the parent from the PTA who Rebecca ran into at the grocery store kind of right after Jack had passed away.

Yeah, we ran into each other actually at the video store. He was there. We were going to a graduation. And I was looking to buy a video camera to video Randall's graduation. That's right. And he was there, I guess, looking at camera equipment as well, at the radio shack. At the radio shack or whatever. And just sort of like ask me out in a sweet way.

You want to get coffee? Yeah. And it was way too soon. Yeah, it was still. Timing was not there. Frumpy beret bags under the eyes, Rebecca. Correct. We have definitely seen that there's like a little bit of a spark, though.

Yeah. He starts talking about his kids asking about mine. Yeah. And there is a lightness and an ease between them. You're glad to see him. Yeah, like a friendly face. Oh, right. Yeah.

We know each other. We have a history. You're kind. And then the little bell dings and he moves on to the next table and then sits down. the greatest actor I've ever seen. Yeah. And his name is Natalie. You've been searching it.

Oh. What? Wow. Damn it. It's got to be out of this. This gentleman is Eastern European. Yeah. He was great.

And as soon as I saw his audition tape, I'm like, Oh, yeah. I know this. I know this is, he was right on the edge of not in our world. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Like, I could definitely see somebody in. in Dan's off being like, this is almost too much for this is us. Right, right. But I'm like, no, I have to have, I have to meet this guy. And I want him on the show. And he sits down and he says, two lines. I have a ferret. One of them is I have a ferret.

But I think we sat and filmed him for 30 minutes. I do remember you having a lot of fun, just like feeding lines down. him. I was so taken by him. His seriousness and his commitment. I almost was convinced that he wasn't Eastern European. Yeah, that this was all just like a ruse. And it was like a Borat situation where he like auditioned in character or Andy Kaufman and showed up in character or Andy Kaufman and showed up in character and stayed in character even after we cut. And I thought he was fantastic. Sir, I have forgotten your name. Please forgive me.

It looks like him. Estrade. Estrata. Here. Estrate. That's him. Yes. That's him.

Yeah. Dan, you're a genius. I hope you're well and I hope you never stop working. Yeah, he was great. I'm putting him down on my notes. Yes. Bring him to Vancouver. I want to watch more of his stuff and I want to bring him to the bank.

Chris is going to be. Rookie North. Yeah, rookie North. He's a criminal. Your character is going to walk in on one of the interrogations and it's him. I want him. I want he and I. to cross paths in a thousand different ways through my life.

Yes. And just, is that? Have these guys been on screen together before? They always work together. They're always. But after he sits down, Matt kind of reaches over and it's like, excuse me, actually, can we go get some coffee after this? Yeah.

And Rebecca is delighted and says, of course, yeah. She's like, it's 9 p.m. That's what I did think in my mind. I was like, I was like, I hope she's having decaf. And so they do. They go out to coffee. Coffee. A decaf, a decaf, a decaf coffee date at 9 p.m. And then Matt takes you home in the hardest hitting dad car of the late 90s, the Volvo, the Volvo boxy-ass station wagon.

God, I love it. Give it to me. Give it to me. You had a Volvo for a while. I did. Not an old Volvo. I don't know. No. A modern day station wagon. Yeah, it was a small SUV. My God, nothing to me. Like I grew up. in a carpool was someone who had a Volvo station wagon, there was nothing cooler. Yeah.

Then sitting in the back. Yeah. Totally dangerous. In the back. In the trunk. Because that was one of the last ones that had the rear-facing seats. Rear-facing seats. When I got picked up and I was like, oh, the middle, like, you know,

the rest of the car is occupied, I got to sit in the back. Yeah. You liked that. Oh, I loved it. Yeah. So dangerous. And did that car that Matt was driving? Did that have the rear-facing?

It looked like it did. Yeah, I would have had a rear-facing seat. This was 99. That car says, oh, you're a single dad of three. You're stable. Yeah, reliable. You like to live a little day. You like to have coffee after 8 p.m.

You like safety? Sign me up. Sign me up, daddy. Sign me up, daddy. That's when coffee shops used to be open later. Oh, yeah. Because they're not really open now. No, no, 4 p.m.

They were all independent coffee shops. Open to like midnight. Yeah, we'll go over to the. the Bella brew. Bellabrew. That was yours? Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Did they have like open mic? I was drink. Yeah. Open mics. Some bohemian poet up there. Drinking the mochas. Yeah.

Not realizing how much caffeine I was ingesting because I thought it was chocolate. I can't sleep tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, caffeine's a problem for me, you guys. At least it used to be. But he comes home and he gives her and he gives her a sweet little kiss on the cheek. I think he went in for.

He went in for the kids. But he didn't feel disappointed. No, no. It was just right. It was just right. Like, this is where you're... I think he went straight in and he was like, let me just see what she's going to do. And I'm happy with whatever.

She gives me the cheek, cool. And she gave him the cheek. Yeah. He was like, that's fine. That's fine. So I'll see you next time. Yeah. And he turbo-deasles off.

He did. Yeah. And there's... Kate waiting. There's a smitten kitten on the sidewalk. Yeah. She's just happy to be, I don't know. Until she goes inside.

Face to face with. And there's gloomy doomy. Asking what she was doing. Yeah. What's you doing? Yeah. What was that? It was the role reversal.

It was the role reversal of like the girl and the dad, the dad sitting in a dark living room. Yeah. In a rocking chair waiting for his daughter. Welcome home. Clips the lamp on. Exactly. What's you up to? Yeah.

Why is your breath? smell like coffee. Do you know what time it is? Who's car was that? Yeah. That's exactly what she said. Who the car was that? Yeah.

Oh, you went out for coffee? It's nine o'clock. Yeah. There's so much judgment. Was she mad that you were getting home so late? Was she just mad that you weren't even, that wasn't even Miguel's car? Yeah. Like, I already don't like you hanging out with this, but now you're hanging out with another.

Yeah. With someone else that I don't know. Wow. Tramp. And she starts, oh, yeah. No. Did she say tramp? She doesn't say tramp.

She says, yeah. Pouring around. No, she says like a slut. Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. She does say like a slut. You guys get a little heated.

You try to, you try to fend her off with some respectful returns. Well, with respectful, you know what? It's time. Yeah. Like, I can't sit around this house all day. You said so yourself. I'm trying to, you know, find a way to put the pieces of my life back together. Yes, yeah.

And find some sort of happiness. I think it's what your father would have wanted. Yeah. And she says what? You mean running around town like a slut? And you said, slut what? She didn't say nothing. She didn't say nothing. Yeah. This did all the talking. She said, slap. That was a good slap too. It was a good slap. It was awful. It felt. And yes. Yes. It felt awful. I'm going to tell you right now, though, the audience at home was like, yes. Hot take. She deserved it. Hot take. the audience was probably like Kate needs to snap out of it.

She's, no, she needs to be slapped out. I don't know if that's such a hot take. It was, yes. It's time to snap out of it. I believe it could have been handled a different way, but wow, yes. Violence is never the answer.

Of course. But people. It was horrifying, especially, it was horrifying then, but even more so now as a parent. I'm like, oh, wow. Yep. But it,

but it was horrifying to hear her speak to Rebecca that way, to her mom. I won't, I won't ask you to divulge. But I got hit in the face once. No, I got hit in the face. Real hard.

You mean as a kid? Yeah. Well, it was like a 17-year-old. About the same, about the same as Kate. Yeah, just maybe for the same reasons of talking back. I definitely didn't call my mom a slut. But I was there was talking back. And it was a pivotal moment.

There was threats of washing my mouth out with soap. Never happened, but a lot of threats. Brutal. Threats. I was like, brutal. I just, in my mind, I remember thinking of, like, a dial bar of soap in my mouth. And I was like, that's got to be so gross.

I never got hit. Same. It was attempted. But I grew up with grandparents. I was too fast. Straight up. I grew up with my grandparents. I was too fast.

It couldn't catch me. They couldn't swing on me. So? Yeah, because they were old. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can't get me. Yeah. But I was a little brat.

I'm picturing. Hold on. Now I'm picturing old people trying. And it was a seven day. And you and be like, and you dodge it. Yeah. And you got to come back again.

And then they fall over and you're like, ah, get up, shoot. Should send me to the boxing gym and learn out of a box with a little kid for babysitting. That was like my babysitter because they call me Bob and weave. Yeah. Try to hit me, grandma. Whoa. Can't get me. You got to be faster than that.

You don't even run away. You just kind of lean in. But you know who can't, you know who can't. You know who can't. Dodge it, Kate? No. Kate, got it. Rebecca's too fast. Well, and the slap happens.

Do you remember filming that? Yep. Yeah, I just remember being, wanting it to make sure that it felt real and felt earned. I mean. We had to get from point A to point slap. Yeah. Believably. Yeah.

In the course of a couple lines. And we only had like four exchanges to get there. Yeah. So it had to like exponentially level up to a. a believable point. Yeah. Like, she had to, for lack of a better phrase, earn it. Yeah.

Yeah. And you had to be pushed to that. Be pushed to that point. Yeah. But then the moment after was very, like, we felt. But also the immediate moment after was like not backing down. Yeah. It was like, you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, yeah, that's right. The immediate one. Oh, of course, of course. It would have disappointed me if it had been written. she immediately. Backtracked. Yeah. I can't believe I did that.

Right, right, right. That would have disappointed me. She calls Miguel and admits that. That's the moment like you were. Yeah, she doubled down in the moment, but then she called Miguel and was like, I, like, I did this thing that I regret. It's horrible. And what does she say? She calls Miguel admits that grief is so deep and unbearable.

Yeah. And also there's a moment, like the way that you played that where it was like, from the beginning of the phone call to the end, just how it just progressively got more emotionally, just impossible for you as Rebecca to... And we did that a few times, but it was done on the first take. Like it was, and I watched it,

I was like, this is a lesson. I'm watching an acting lesson right now. Never mind having to accomplish that emotional level, but that emotional level on a phone call is like double standing there or Glenn first day of

yeah yeah yeah yes alone in a room on a phone I will say though Glenn off camera not so bad yeah no he's great

he definitely gives you something he shows up he does show up we love Glenn speaking and just real quick maybe for the audience off camera means like if an actor is in a scene

on a phone call or you can't see the other person for whatever reason sometimes a script supervisor or in our case, an AD will read the lines off screen. Yeah, so you have somebody to dialogue with. But you're not acting with your co-star in that scene. And so Glenn, our first AD, which is a very, it's about, he's running, he runs the set.

Yeah. He's not really an actor. Oftentimes he would have to jump in and read for us off camera. He would give us as actor something. When you normally, whoever's reading off camera, you get nothing. Yeah. Somebody like reading the phone book. It's...

Yeah. And sometimes not reading our phone book very well. So like it's no easy feat to achieve that level of concise emotion. And it was something to watch. On both sides. Yeah. That's very kind. I mean, I think about that all the time when I watch anybody on any show, but on our show specifically, that's on the phone.

Making it feel so believable. Yeah. It is. It's the hardest part of the job for sure. I would tell you, watching, watching, one of the things, when I watch horror movies and I see some, watching people be scared. Watching people be scared, believably. Over nothing. When I know how long they've been doing that and they have to do this for a 90-minute movie, I find, I'm like, this is, there should be Academy Awards for this.

Yeah. For just horror film acting. Correct. It's incredible. Yeah. When they're good. Yeah. It's, kudos.

Yeah. Cudos. Because there's no real much. Cudos. But yeah, quick, quick shout out to Miguel on the other side of the phone, too. Who's there in his undershirt and having a beer on the bed alone. Hey, Rebecca. At 10 o'clock.

How was coffee? What's he doing at 10 o'clock in his undershirt with beer? I wish we'd had some lady in the bed behind you. I wish we had like a lump in the bed next to you. Like, it went well for me too, Rebecca. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Yeah, don't worry about me.

I hope your coffee went well. You were so happy to answer the phone at first because you didn't know why she was calling. What do you call? You were like a little. Hey, Rebecca, how was your coffee? It was so good. You want to come over? That's what I was.

Yeah, I taped. You're still up to? Yeah. I want to be a millionaire. I'm guessing we shouldn't jump into the like, the montage at the end. We can do the montage at the end. Yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect.

Should we go to present day? Kate Toby? Yeah. Yes. Toby calls Kate. Yeah. Kate and Rebecca is there helping Kate because Toby's in San Francisco.

She's hanging out with our kids. With Haley. Johnny Kincade. The incredible Johnny Kincade. Incredible. And little Haley. And little Haley. That's right.

Yes. And yeah, Toby calls. and did you direct you in San Francisco I mean I just let the camera run but yeah you set up the shot we did yes when we were in San Francisco doing the part of my episode yeah that takes place in San Francisco my end of the phone call correct

while you were directing your episode yes this was a beautiful shot it is a beautiful shot yeah I mean it was like a beautiful location in the bridge and the harbor there yeah yeah as far as phone calls go, it was dynamic. It was a dynamic phone call. I feel like Rach and I have had these phone calls a lot. Where you like know the task at hand, you're going to have to deliver some bad news.

But I'm like, listen, this showrunner, you know, like, I got to stay an extra day in Vancouver. Yeah. Because the director wants to have dinner. Yeah. And it's important. And it like, and it feels, especially feels that way in our industry because in our industry, because in our industry, we, We dress up work events like social events all the time. Yeah.

And so you're like, no, I'm going to a party, but it's not a party. No. Even a red carpet. This is not it's fun. It's not a parade of enjoyment. No, it's work. This is work and interviews and talking to people and meeting people and making sure that you have FaceTime with the people who are who.

Instrumental in giving you your next job maybe. Yes. I hate all of it. That's why John wants to start giving the jobs. Yeah. That's right. Just give us the jobs. We're good, man.

And he says, I got to stay here to go out on the yacht. On the yacht. Micro yacht. It's a micro yacht. A modest yacht, if you will. And you play it down too, right? Because, yeah, the dinner I'm going to, it's not going to be that fun. No, there aren't going to be, like, really cool people there or anything.

It won't be tasty. It won't be tasty. It's a micro yacht. It's not chef prepared. No. It's like a canoe with a toilet. And you could tell that this is, you know, okay, not hitting Kate particularly favorably. Sure.

Perhaps there's been a couple of those. Yeah, she really did. She really did. And Rebecca, of course, sees that, okay, now there's a change in the plans. And she says, hey, well. I'll hope with the kids. Yeah, I'll watch the kids. Yeah, because Kate has to go to work.

Yeah. That's right. And then Kate says, why don't you come with me? Bring the kids. It'll be fun. If they've never, you haven't seen me at work. Yeah. Music got to pee on.

You love music. Yeah. It's like, okay. You want to come see some music? Come see some music. And Rebecca falls for it. Of course, hookline and sinker. She has no idea.

Yeah. All is set up. Well, she's going through early onset, so. Yeah. Easy a trick. Oh, man. Yeah, she's easy target. And so at school, Kate asks Rebecca to be, to not just join.

but to be the kind of guest musician, right? They cut to the class, and she's there teaching, and she's got the kids in the strollers, and her class is there, and there's a nice grand piano, and she says, but you know who's a great piano player is my mom? And she knows every modern pop song. Yeah, every one of them. On piano.

Yeah. She can just, like, just jump into Royals by Lord. By Lord. Yeah. It's her favorite. It's her favorite. Look at that Bob. Yeah.

You think that Bob doesn't like Lord? I think that Bob hasn't been to a Lord concert. Come on. Yeah. Got another thing coming. So yeah. And we really needed, we really needed like some kind of golden girls moment where it cuts to you like. Kind of lip-sitting.

We don't care. Getting caught up in my love affair. You know, like a real Mrs. Doubtfire type. It was really cute. We will never be royals, royals. And it's not in our blood. Not going to be able to use that much at the song. Come at me, Lord.

Come at me, YouTube. It's not even identifiable as the song. It's so good. Leave it in. Challenge set. I'll take the lawsuit. Lord. I didn't.

I'll take the lawsuit. I won't. I don't. I didn't sing much of that. No, there's nobody else here. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out.

I'm alone in a room somewhere. Come find me, Lord. Oh, Lord. And you're not. Oh, wow. Doubling down. Moby's coming down for you. Moby.

Moby's not coming for anybody. First of all, one bald man to another, Moby's not coming for anybody. I got, and by the way, I got you back against Moby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, now John's here. Now if it's like to come and John's here. Oh, for the vegan?

Yeah, John's here. Come at me with your vegan arms. Come on, man. Hey, me. Get you satan out of here. Okay. Anyway. Anyway.

They have a blast. They sing, the children sing a beautiful version of royal. Royals by Lord. While they're there, there's another phone call, another great phone call. This is the phone call I was talking about earlier that we shot in San Francisco at the docks, because the first one's in Toby's office. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And you were like, actually the yacht wasn't so bad. It was kind of a big yacht.

Yeah. It was legit. And I got to wear sunglasses, which felt really cool. It always feels cool on camera. Sunglass acting, I think, is red. Cool. Yeah, it's cool. It takes a little bit of the pressure off.

You're like, oh, you don't see what's going on behind these. I do whatever I want. You're not afforded the opportunity very often unless you're supposed to look cool. Yeah. Getting off a yacht. Yeah, getting off a yacht. You had to wear it. Also, it was incredibly sunny, if I remember,

correctly. Yeah. It was like a non-negotiable you had to wear sunglasses. Yeah. Always sunny in San Francisco. Yeah. More, that was us after this short break. Kate says, yeah, we're here.

We're doing our thing. But I, I've lost so much time with her. Yeah. And he is just trying to kind of console her and let her know there's plenty more time to be had. Because she's worried that like, you know. Yeah. Well, she was just like, this is such a beautiful.

beautiful moment and I wasted so many years being mad at my mom, having, you know, a difficult relationship. We've, we've had to sort of like overcome so much to get to this point where we can share this moment now. Like, I'm happy in my life. I love this job. It's so suited for me. I'm able to bring her here. She's able to use her love of music and it's like watching everything come full circle at the very end when my mom is sick. Like I hate that it took. It took so long. We had so many bumps in the road. And then she throws out kind of a mysterious line. She's like, I need to tell her tonight.

Yeah. Tell her what? Yeah. Catherine. Yeah. You think it's Catherine? No. Kate? It's just Kate. It's just Kate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Jack named her and he would have just said Kate. Yeah. We would have heard Catherine earlier. Especially when she was getting in trouble. Yeah. Catherine? Yeah. Catherine. Pearson.

Probably when she slapped her. It would have been in the, you don't know if you know what you're talking about. Catherine. Yeah. Man, we missed it. We missed an opportunity. Damn it. What's Catherine's middle name, too? I forget. Catherine Barry Pearson. You don't know what you're talking about Caitlin. They wouldn't have done Caitlin. They wouldn't have done Caitlin. They wouldn't have Caitlin because we got. Caitlin. It wasn't the early 90s. No, I just feel like, I think we got Caitlin behind the scenes. Yeah. Yeah. What are the other, what's Kate in short for? Katie. We got Kate. We got Kate. We got Kate. Katie girl. Yeah. Anyways.

Anyways. She says, I have to tell her tonight. And the audience is like, tell her what? Well, cut to the kitchen. And Rebecca's talking Doja Cat. She's finally learned who Doja Cat is. And if I knew one of her songs, I'd sing one of her goddamn songs, too. Although, maybe don't come at me, Doja Cat.

She seems very intimate. Like she would. She'd come at. She'd show up at a Rabagrin studio. kick the door open. Oh, you want to sing my song. If you're not watching us on Hulu, John Huerta's can pull a comedy face

like nobody's business. Every time. So go back, start watching, watch this one. Don't just listen. You got to watch. Thank you. And she's just talking about what a great day she had. Rebecca's talking about what a great day she had.

And, and. She's happy to be helpful. And she's like, you know, when Toby gets home, like I would be happy to watch the kids let you guys go have a little bit of a date night. Yes. And Kate. Kate's like, well, I mean to talk to you about that. Yeah.

I set this up in the last scene. Yeah. Let me follow through. Remember in the last scene where I told Toby that I needed to tell you something tonight? It's tonight. So she essentially just says that she and Toby have been talking and considering mom's, you know, latest pet scans. Yeah.

And, you know, how this disease is progressing, they don't entirely feel comfortable with her being left alone with the kids. Yep. Wow. And Rebecca is, it's tough because watching this now removed from, you know, a few years removed from playing the character, I was, I understood how insulted she felt. Sure. But as a parent now, it's like I can understand a little bit more of both sides.

Of both sides. And how unbelievably difficult this was from both sides now, of course, how unbelievably difficult this was for Kate to even voice to her mother. But how important she felt it was, you know, between her family and her husband that, you know, you know because things things are only going to progress further from here and I think

this is sort of getting out ahead of a problem before it's you know before it really becomes a problem right I guess you don't know how fast it's going to progress sure right it's the the pet scans are obviously showing oh it's progressing

faster in the scans than the last like the last one so yeah it must you know it must be really difficult for anyone to go through that. So, but at the same time, like, I remember watching the episode thinking, but she can drive a car. She's, like, literally leaving. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was, so I bet a lot of people, you know, at home who maybe have parents who are going through some sort of, you know, dementia or Alzheimer's. Cognitive, yeah, yeah. Some kind of cognitive client are like, well, my mom is fine with my kids.

I bet that, you know, people at home were kind of like, I wonder who's. whose side, I wonder how divided our audience was in that moment. Yeah. I mean, you also have a child who has a disability, right? Who has visual impairment. And there's a lot more consideration. There are two young kids. It's a lot. It's a lot for anyone to handle. And I truly believe it was Kate just being cognizant and aware that like things are going to continue to progress. And I just need to tell you that this is a conversation we've had. And it might be easier to sort of implement this rule now before like it's entirely necessary. Before it's too late.

Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, Rebecca obviously takes it hard and she leaves. Kate then comes over to their house, to Rebecca Miguel's house later to have a conversation and to apologize and just talks about how poor this timing is. Kate sort of reiterates what she said to Toby. Like it's taken so long for us to finally, you know, find each other. and be in a good place with one another.

And I love where we are now. And I hate that, like, this disease is robbing us of having what we've worked. So what we've worked essentially our entire lives to have with one another. But here's how we can connect. Yeah. It's over music. Yeah. Music will always be the connecting thread.

And I would love for you to teach Jack music in the way that you taught me piano and you introduced me to music as a kid. And she brings some braille. sheet music. Which was, I thought, so, like, for me, it was so emotionally touching. Because the thought of a parent thinking that, you know, having a kid with a disability, like thinking the things that they might miss. And I love, like, I love that there is just, you know, that someone figured out, like, we can,

we can write music in Braille. And then obviously it sets up, you know, Jack for the future. Of course. When I watched the episode, that's one thing that, like, hit me. I'm like, if not for this moment right here, for all of this, like, Jack would never have been. A rock star. A rock star.

Yeah. And that's fucking Rebecca. Rebecca did that shit. Yeah. That's literally what I thought in the moment I watched that. Well, at Kate's insistence. That's right. And at Kate's assistance.

Should we do the last storyline and then we'll get to the montage of the end? Well, we have, we have Kevin and Madison and Randall Beth. That's right. Oh, wow. I know, I know. It's a long episode. So Kevin, we find Kevin dropping off the kids with Madison. They're being cute. They're clapping and they're pointing. Doing all the little things that... That's my sister right there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And oh, oh, oh, Elijah is also here. Yeah. Comes out the bedroom. Comes out the bedroom. Yeah. Yeah. Ask if she wants a smoothie. She says no. Kevin is obviously still getting used to the fact that they're dating and how comfortable that situation. is he's dropping the kids off because he is on his way to Pennsylvania. He's going to be overseeing construction of the house

by the cabin. Let's not, I mean, I don't know if I'm inserting this too early, but let's not forget the moment that the face that Justin gives this guy. So good. What did he say? He gives a couple. He gives a couple of faces where the first face

when he realizes that he's there. Right. he's facing away from him. I'm talking about the one at the end when he tries to... He says, he says, oh, this is a side of celebrities that people just don't see.

Is that it? And Kevin is just looking at him like... Oh, yeah. Yes, the look he gives when he says, you're hanging out, oh, in the bedroom? No, no. And he says, you know I can hear

every word you guys are saying, right? No, it's at the very end. That's a big weekend for you, right? He says, yeah, I'm going to Pennsylvania to check on the house. that I'm building for my mom. And Elijah says, I think it is a side of celebrities we never see.

I think it is a side of celebrities we don't see. And then he just like, that's how we end the scene. Uh-huh. Smash cut. That look was so fucking money. Justin's a genius. Justin can unfortunately do everything. Do it all.

Yeah. That's true. He can save people. He can shoot guns. He can be the funniest person on set. Yep. The most handsome person. person on set, the best lover, does it all.

An incredible dramatic actor. Don't look me that way, Todd. Are you surprised? Don't look surprised. First of all, how dare you look surprised when I mentioned? Let's see. Okay, so he leaves, he calls Cassidy, and he invites her to the cabin and says Uncle Nicky would obviously love to see her.

Obviously. Obviously. Obviously, a good reason to come. Yeah, not just Kevin. Yeah, not Kevin. And also said that Uncle Nicky is going to. He's going to come and he's there, obviously, but he has his new girlfriend visiting. That's right.

So, like, doesn't she want to come and meet the new girlfriend? Yeah, Cassidy is at her lowest, saddest, the divorce is finalized. She's sitting on the floor organizing Pokemon cards in her son's bedroom. And she says, yeah, I guess I can come. Wait, is this a sex thing? Yeah. Kevin's like. You open to that?

Sure. And yeah. And it's a true adult conversation about possibility hook it up because I'm. I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, maybe. Sure. I'm open to it, but not expecting it. And then she says, because it will affect, I mean, if it is a thing, then it will affect my packing and grooming. Which I do appreciate. I do appreciate.

I don't quite understand what she means, but. Well, it means, you know, I wish she's going to pack. And grooming, meaning like, how she's going to. How's everything going to look and feel? Listen. No, I don't understand. In the moment, how's everything going to look and feel? Listen, Taylor's out of town for two weeks he left this morning.

Yeah, I'm probably not going to look and feel. I'm probably not going to shave my legs the entire time he's gone. Got it. You know what I mean? No, I do know what you mean. So it's like, it's that kind of girl. Now it all makes sense. No, it all.

Yeah, that's part of it. Stuff I wish I'd known when I was directing these. Yep. Chris never got that moment. Nobody tells me anything. So Uncle Nikki brings his girlfriend. She's lovely. They're at the cabin, right?

Real quick. Oh, sorry. There's a phone call between Kevin and Randall that is kind of the blunt, the most blunt. This episode is full of blunt conversations with Kevin. Yeah. Where Kevin is having self-realization about how the world views him and who he is. Interesting, yeah. And the first one is with, the first conversation is over the phone with Randall.

Well, Randall essentially says you're the world's worst serial monogamist. Yeah. You keep. You had a one-night stand. You got her pregnant with twins. Good luck. good luck trying to have because he says listen we're two adults we can have casual sex and he's like brother you can't do that yeah you don't do that yeah you don't do that and honestly

it's a bit of an addict conversation it's it's like listen i can have a couple of beers no normal people can have a couple of beers you cannot you cannot right right nor nor can you handle your sexual relations yeah so be careful yeah because if you're going to open yourself up to that you're going to end up married again. And it was a great brotherly conversation between two brothers who were showing love to each other. It was. They haven't always traditionally shown that much.

Kind of back on good terms. They can have just a loving, normal conversations. Great. And then he shows up to the website. Then he shows up to the website. To the cabin. To the World Wide Web. To the cabin.

Uncle Nikki's there. Uncle Nicky's there. With his girlfriend. Yeah. Cassidy is a right. They're sitting down to have a dinner, right? Yeah, they're breaking bread, the four of them. She's lovely.

She talks about how she's been married three times. He's obviously never been married. Yep. He's worried. He confides to Kevin that he's worried he's just another. This was the hardest scene. This was the hardest moment to shoot. Because the two of them were killing each other.

Yeah. Trying to get these lines out about sexual relations. Yeah. But he is, what does he say? He's just another, like, port in her storm or something? I'm worried him, just another port in her storm. She's met so many men as a flight attendant. And then he says, I haven't had sex with a real live woman in over two years.

Two years or two decades? Is it two decades? It had to be two decades or else we'd be going, wait, what happened two years ago in your trailer? Yeah. Also, pretty sure it's the same. Like, two years, it's not that long. Like, you're fine. Yeah.

But yeah, the two of them standing at that sink. Trying to get those words out. Trying to look. Justin be like, what do you mean live, woman? Yeah, that was funny. Was that scripted? Yes, all of it. All of it was in the script.

I thought that might have been an act. Yeah, that was funny. And Griffin was leaning in just trying to break Justin with every single wine. And so they sit down to have. to have dinner. Yeah. And it's essentially Justin witnessing a couple. Yeah.

A loving, weird, unexpected couple. Yeah. And they're very cute together. Very cute together. And they brought an overnight bag. Like, it's, yeah, it's all happening. That's right. She brought an overnight bag.

Yeah. She's expecting something. So we know. She's definitely... You've called her out into the woods. Yeah. Where was she going to go? Exactly.

You're in a cabin in the middle of the woods. Yeah. She needs a place to stay. Everybody knows what's happening. Overnight bag and groomed. Yeah. What's happening? Cut two after dinner.

That's right around. We don't know what they're doing back there. About to knock damn boops. But is there a line that Kevin says? Like, we don't know what they're doing in there. Oh, yeah. They're in there watching a movie. Are they?

Which movie were they watching? Well, I could hear it. Yeah, what is it? We need to get it on our shelf. It's another movie from the cabin. What are they watching? We'll have to figure it out. He says, yeah, I'm real worried about what's going on under that blanket.

Because he's talking about hand jobs. Right? Real adult stuff. Real adult things. Middle of the woods, cabin things. Right? That's what we're talking about. Probably.

Probably. Yeah, I think so. Use your imagination. She's checking out his packing and grooming. Yeah. They hadn't had sex yet, so maybe they're starting. easy. Yes.

Starting with something easy. This is what they call heavy petting. Heavy petting. And Justin or Kevin and Cassidy and Cassidy are at the sink

being very domestic washing and drying dishes. I found myself having a bit of an ASMR moment with the sound of washing dishes. The bloopy of the water and the clucky of the plates.

Blup and clack. Blup and clack. Real domestic, real cozy. Kevin suggests they go get ice cream. Yeah, very cozy. So they leave, they go into town to get some ice cream. In your mind. Yeah.

It was like, it's nice. Oh, but he does ask her before that if she wants a job to like oversee Uncle Mickey and the construction of the cabin. I don't need your charity. I don't need your charity, man. It's not that. Yeah. It's not that. Yeah.

He trusts her. He knows that, like, she'll get the job done. And Nikki's already been mouthing off to the workers. Exactly. He's going to need someone to manage him more than anything. Nikki threw a stapler at a subcontractor. Exactly. Cassidy, I need you to block staplers.

And this time I'm thinking about, like, where does stapling come into any of this construction? Yeah. Where do you get a stapling together? I lived in that house as a, or Miguel did anyway. Yeah. Where was this? In that cabin? What's stapled together?

I wish in the comedy version of This Is Us, we would have cut to. Griffin pulling a stapler out of like the inside pocket of his coat. Like he carries one around at all times and chucking it at a roofer. Exactly. That's what we should do. We go back and we remake the half hour comedy version of This Is Us, episode by episode. Right. That's the podcast.

That's the next year. We get the whole gang back together. And we make a comedy version of the show. And we do the half hour comedy version of the show. I'd watch it. Dan, there's your pitch. That's the reboot. I mean, not your pitch.

Pitch got canceled, but the new version of this is that. Damn. Not to rub salt in the wound. Hey. Okay, so they go get ice cream. Yes. Kevin tries to hold her hand because he thinks those are the vibes, right? She gave him the pretty woman.

She yanked that shit away. I was talking about sex, not holding hands. Yeah, exactly. He's like, well, what's wrong with holding hands? What's wrong with this? And she essentially explains, like, the logistics are never going to work for them, right? Like he has children back in L.A. Her kid is here.

And their shit is different. Yeah. They have different darkness. They have different darknesses. Yeah. He's like, do you ever notice that I'm up every time you call me at 3 a.m.? Like I'm awake. Why do you think that is?

Right. And she basically is like, you're chasing the wrong blonde. Go chase another blonde. We're all like, oh, okay. She also calls him a wrecking ball. Yeah, a human wrecking ball. That's right. A human wrecking ball.

She's like, you ruin. everything everything you were supposed to marry one woman and you messed that up and then you almost married her again cheated on this one yeah yeah yeah it's like the list goes on and on and it's the most blunt anyone in the show yeah is with him ever and she's doing it with a smile the whole time yeah it's very loving it was loved it was delivered very loving absolutely yeah the way only jen morrison can yeah brilliant she looks so beautiful in this scene so beautiful um incredibly talented. Yeah, I'm like, I get why Kevin's like, oh, maybe you're the one.

Yeah. That I'm supposed to be with. Yeah. Because she's got her shit together. Yeah. And she says, I'm, what should say? I'm too broken. Yeah, she's too messed up and self-aware.

Exactly. And it's a beautiful kind of loving rejection. Yeah. And then Kevin's back at the house and he's, uh-oh. On his phone again. texting somebody. Text the only two words he knows how to text. Is it the house or was he driving?

You up? No, he's at the house. He's back at the cabin after ice cream. Okay. And he texts our man Elijah. Elijah. Yeah, we don't know that he's texting Elijah at first. Right.

He said, you up. Yeah, he says you up, which you don't text to another man. But I get it. Writers, head fake. Yeah. Not a blonde. And he calls him. And he's like, you're not supposed to call after a text.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, which is true. He texts and immediately gets a call back. Eli, Elijah thought it was something going on. What are you doing? Yeah.

And essentially, Kevin takes a second to try to correct his wrecking ball ways. Yeah. And to lean into the reparative side of himself and offers Elijah a bit of advice. Word of advice. He says, whether she wants a smoothie or not, just get her to the smooth. basically. Don't ask her. Don't ask her.

Just to say no. She's got her past eating disorders that she's dealing with. She might say no, but she wants to just get it for her. It was a very considerate and considered thing to do. Very nice. Very nice. It was like Kevin 2.0. Maybe Kevin 3.0.

Kevin is evolving. He's evolving. I think at the end of this. at the end of that. It shows that Kevin is evolving. A turning point. A crossroads. Yes.

A fulcrum. If you will. If you will. Yeah. I'll do it. Randall and Beth? Yes. This is great.

Yeah. All of this is great. I got to direct a dinner scene, a classic, this is us dinner scene with all the characters. All around the table. All around the table. All the coverage. And we find out that, essentially names flying from my brain.

Deja and Malik are calling a family dinner. Yeah. He's in town for 24 hours. Malik is cooking. Yeah, yeah. Not just coming over for dinner. He's cooking dinner. So this immediately sends Randall and Beth into a tailspin. They love to play a little version of their

worst case scenario game. That's right. Where they talk about what they think these kids have to chat with them about. They start with pregnant. Eloping. Yeah. Eloping. Yeah.

Eloping. Already eloped. Yeah. Getting engaged at dinner. Yeah. Asking Randall's permission beforehand. Finding a ring and a pie. Yeah.

And then they kind of discern like, you know what, actually we need a new game. This is dark. Right. Oh, yeah. We forgot that Deja wanting to adopt his daughter. Yeah. And living in the house with them forever. That was the kicker.

Yes. kind of alone with their thoughts of that actuality. And then kind of cut to the dinner. Yeah. Right? Yep. Oh, no. Cut to...

We got to talk about, yeah, the kids get ready for the dinner. Talk about it. The kids get together. They're going to get ready for the dinner. And Dajia is scheming. Scheming. And she's, you know, everybody's going to have their role based on their superpower. One is knock-knock jokes.

Yeah. The other is, like, asking mom about work and complimenting her. Never ever does. Like she hasn't done that in years. Yes. But that's their plan. Randall comes downstairs and interrupts their conversation and the three of them in like perfect Larry Moe and Curley routine. Hey, what do you guys talking about?

And they all say three different things all at the same time in a way. That like couldn't be planned. It was really perfect. Yeah. Then cut to the dinner. Everybody's a little more dressed up. Everybody's kind of on their best behavior. Yep.

That's right. Malik is... He's made Miyoki? Yeah. It's like an incredible, like, brown butter sauce. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It seems like people really liked that. Yeah. Who wouldn't? You know what I mean? Impressive. That sounds great.

Yeah. A brown butter. Who knew? Little brown butter. Little brown butter. That's right. I got it right. Tess jumps in asking Beth about work.

Beth is like, what? Like, this is weird. She immediately. like her heckles go up a little bit like why are you asking me about work and then annie jumps in with a knock knock joke and she's like okay stop what's going on like what is up and they kind of insist and randall frandle gets a compliment from somebody yeah and he's oh thanks for and this is the bit sue being like it's a tactic it's all tactics yeah do not fall for it yeah what is going on yeah ran yeah you're right yeah you're right yeah you're right yeah you back to it yeah yeah you almost got reeled in by it. He was falling for it and she was not. And Deja just comes out with it. She goes, what's going

on? You two are up to something. You're giving each other side eyes. Yep. And Deja says, I'm moving to Boston. After this semester? After the semester. I'm leaving school early. I'm moving to Boston with Malik. Smash cut to commercial. And then we learned that she's, you know, sign up

for these AP classes that get her They have a plan. They have a plan. This is nothing. This isn't something they just came up with. They've been planning this. She's got these AP classes. We're going to give her enough credits to be able to graduate or not even graduate,

but at least be done with school. And she's going to take her GED. It might seem reckless, but they've thought this through. They thought this through. They have put some planning and thought into it. And Randall and Beth across a table. Are not. They look like they have lost their.

Minds, insanity. They're not having it. No. We're not talking about this. This is not happening. They're boiling. Yeah. Randall is on one, as they say.

He leaves. He leaves. He just, like, gets up and leaves the table. I can't even talk about it. Yeah. And Malie comes out to find him. Real quick, I just had to shout out Annie's perfect knock knock. Oh, at the end of the scene.

Yeah, yeah. It's getting heated. Knock knock, knock, smash got to commercial. Yeah. It really made, I actually really realized that the art. of what they call it the blow, right? The blow of the scene? You're both looking to me like you've never heard that.

Maybe I'm way off. I started in the 90s, the blow of the scene was like, that was one of the actors is going back to the corner of the stage. Back in the day. Give himself some energy. But like how helpful a commercial break is. Yeah. In network television, in the rhythm of it to where it's like,

to break the tension. Yeah, bang, bang, bang, knock. And the way that Sterling just shifts his eyes to her, and then we cut, and it would have cut to a commercial. And it would have given the audience a time to talk about it. Oh, what's coming out? Yeah, what's coming up next? I think I'd never really thought about the value of that pacing in network television until rewatching this. Because the musicality of the edit and everything still played okay with the blackout.

But I'm like, oh, right, there would have been commercials right there. A few minutes to digest. And Speculate. And Randall goes outside. And when we come back. Yeah, Randall essentially tells Malik, look, he is on a great path. And he should be proud. And so is Dacia.

But Dacia needs to find her own path. She can't just like, she can't. can't take your path essentially. She's a junior in high school. She has a lot of life left to live. And the next two years are going to be really big for her. And the kindest thing that he could do if he truly, truly loved her was let her go. Break up.

Yeah, break up. Break up with her, he says. I mean, I wonder what the audience felt in that murder. Like, whose side were they on in that moment? Because everybody dreams of like that first love, like that love that you. Yeah. That romantic, like, first, lightly running away together as early 20s or late teens or whatever. You know, people want to embrace that love, you know, love, want to root for that story.

But then he makes a great, solid point. Solid point. But then Malik responds in the most responsible, well-adjusted, mature way that a young man can respond, which is... There was also... I'm gonna pretend like you didn't just say that to me. Yeah, I'm not gonna tell Dacia. He did it with a knife. Like, it's like, it's the most responsible

grown-up way of responding to him, but there was a little bit of a knife. Sure. Like, well, because it- Like, it's a little bit of a threat, like. Because he didn't pull the first knife. Exactly. It was self-defense.

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna tell Tasia because we had this conversation. And I respect you guys relationship. And I don't wanna hurt that. Right. Like you just, it's me, my. Yeah. Yeah. And they walked away and I was like,

yeah. And Deja and Malik have been doing that for a few episodes now. Yeah. You know, where the episode before, I think the way the last episode ended. Yeah. She's like, that's going to be a problem. He says, you're not going to see your boyfriend for a long time. And Deja said, well, that's going to be a problem.

Stone cold. Yeah. Because they both are actually mature and actually, well, considered yeah she earlier we we we didn't say this but at dinner I think she told Beth that you've got with Beth and Randall that you've always told me I'm wise by my years yeah and like and she ended the way you cut it like she like let that land and just looked at them mm-hmm say it's like what do you have to say to that yeah there's not no response right wired exactly and so yeah these these

two are wise beyond their ears So what's the, like, the question is, would this work? Yeah. Really. I think at the end of that scene, and I think the dangerous part is that we all feel like it kind of would work. Like, even though they're so young, like, even as an audience, I kind of believe them. I'm like, if anyone could actually do this, I feel like you two probably could.

Me too. Randall goes back in. Yeah. Beth is none too happy that he left. Beth is just eating the center out of a pie. Just the middle of a pie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know why, because the crust is the best part, guys.

Agreed. Yeah. I'm like, ooh. Yeah. The gooey middle. The gooey middle. Give me some of that hard crust. Yeah.

Give it a little texture. Yeah. Yeah. She just, just, yeah. But she's not happy, and he basically tells her that he told Malik to break up with Dacia, and she was like, what? What? What?

Like, hello, that didn't go well for Romeo and Juliet. What are you doing? Yeah. He's like, what do you mean when didn't go well for Romeo? He said, it didn't go well for Romeo? They said it didn't go well for their parents. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, what happened to their parents?

They both died. The children died, Randall. The children died. Their children died. Yeah. They killed themselves. She does disdain and frustration better than anybody in this show. Yeah.

She is so, whenever she's mad, I love it so much. And she's like, you know, if we put. we're going to lose our daughter. Yeah. Yeah. What would you have done if someone said you couldn't date me? Yeah, exactly.

Not you, Mandy. No, no, no. I know. I was like, does she say that? Does she say that? Yeah, she does. She says, what would have happened if someone told you?

And he thinks about it for a second and she's like, we're going to lose our daughter. Yeah. And she's like, you're making a really big mistake. Yeah. So they're going to have to figure out a new plan of action. Yeah. And this is one of those parts of the show

where I'm like, what happens? Yeah, I don't remember what happens. I forget. Yep, I forget. And then what would have happened in the series of the show was this is when Kate shows up to talk to Rebecca, right, about the music. And what we end up with is, and this is actually, this is my, this is the structure that I brought to the script that wasn't in the script that I was really proud of.

That when I brought it to Yasu as far as what I wanted to do shot wise, he was like, yeah, I like that. That's a good idea. For the end of the episode? Oh, I love that. All along the way, because we get, we actually, we miss talking about it, but in the flashback, we start the episode. We start the episode with Jack filming our youngest Kate and Rebecca at the piano playing heart and soul. The episode is called Heart and Soul.

And he's saying, you're going to want this footage for your rock and roll hall of fame induction. And we see a mother teaching her daughter. Then we see in the kind of aftermath of the slap, teenage Kate sitting down at the same piano with her mom, who's playing heart and soul a couple octaves down in a satir key. And they very quietly make up. I won't date. No, you should. And then we see a moment. montage of a grandmother sitting with her daughter and her grandson, teaching him the same

song. And it's beautiful. And it's a beautiful thing. But the, the, the, the, bum, bum, bum, we got, I got a shot of, of you and baby Kate from the back, from the back, yeah, sitting next to each other. And I got the same shot of you and teenage Kate sitting together. And then the same shot of you and Kate. And then Johnny was on your lap, which is how we managed

to get the shots to match because I wanted just the two of you. Same silhouette. To be seen. Great tableau. Yeah, it's beautiful. And then I asked, and then the only other kind of creative thing I had asked, I asked Sid if he would re-record the closing theme. song just on piano, which I don't know if you caught.

No, I didn't. It's just, it's a different version of the closing theme that goes straight from heart and soul into just piano version of the closing theme song. Cool. I didn't catch that either. Well, nobody caught it because when you watch it, we weren't probably watching on network. Network. Yeah, I'm watching on the network.

And the network, when you watch on network, it goes quiet and off to the side. Yeah, it goes. and they show you what's next. Yeah. And so you don't catch it. It gets buried. Yeah, it gets buried, which I didn't quite realize

when I had asked Sid to do that. But he did it. I was more than happy to you. And it was really lovely. Chris, congrats on an incredible episode, man. Wonderful. I love the way I did that those shots are just like some of my favorite. Not only that episode, but of the show.

I really love that. I was really proud of it. The three. Do you want to do more? I do. I do. I do. And I,

the hard part is I realize, now, part of the realization of the, you know, scaffolding that I was offered is like to just go and do it somewhere else. It's going to take a lot more work, a lot more shadowing, a lot more. I have to, you know what I'll probably end up doing is doing a lot of shadowing on this show. Yeah. On Rookie North. On the Rookie North since I, you know, I need to.

Not my episode, but yeah, maybe some of the other ones. John's not going to allow you to shadow him. Not me. But someone else will be open. here. Why is he standing behind me? If I see him behind me one more time, dressed all in black. You don't have to look like a shadow, Chris. You don't have to look like a shadow, Sully. Stop singing that song. Because it takes so much time. Yeah. And it's why it's why it doesn't happen a lot. Because you have to dedicate so much time. Yeah. And but if I'm going to be up in Vancouver anyways, away from my family, might as well do it.

Might as well maximize my time and educate myself. Yeah. I love that. And I would, here's what I would, suggest because this is what I did on Castle the show before this is us is I didn't just shadow directors I show every department I got to like I want I was in the prop department when let me watch them prep yeah let me watch them do their prep meetings I can't the camera I'm just shadow the camera department understanding exactly what first AC second AC Dolly grip operator what they do so you know everybody's language so when they are asking you the questions or they're, you know, you want to give them.

You know, everybody's, and, you know, why tell directors, go to acting class. Yeah. Like, understand how to talk to us because we don't have a lot of time on set to get what we need. Play Zips, you got to know, yeah, you got to know that shorthand, baby. Yeah, it's true. Right? Yeah. So do that when you're up there.

That's a good idea. Especially if you don't have your family up there. I'll take that advice. What else you doing? That's right. That's right. Go back to your chair. your trailer? That's right. Learn something. Learn something. Learn something. I don't even know how to do. So before

we sign off and say goodbye, I think we have a bit of a message from a friend of ours. Yeah, I can't, sorry guys, I couldn't be there. I can't hear you. Not available. I'm out on this beach somewhere, probably. Let's see what he has to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gang, it's SKB. I'm sitting here at Paramount right now. Braggie. And I'm not there with you. And I'm not there with you. And I'm You miss you guys. Yeah, we miss you too. I was watching episode 605 just now. Beautiful episode.

Mandy Moore, exquisite work as always. Just seeing you and John together and just sort of hoping that you guys can see in the audiences ahead of you knowing where you're going. And you guys are the two last people to see it. It is so charming and so cute. And then you try to go out with Matt and your daughter gives you grief and you got to slap the crap out of my name. Andy Moore. Jiminy, Christmas. What if it's an hour-long voicemail where he just talks about the whole episode?

It's just in Sterling fashion. But then to see how you guys have reached one accord at the end. And then was Kay. And the piano montage from youngest Kate to young Kate to adult Kate. And if you guys noticed at the end of the episode when they play the music, it wasn't the normal instrumentation. It was like pure piano. Wow.

As we had, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Did you remind me? Remindianist, he just picked that up. He just, he just, beautiful. Wow. Huertes, my man, thank you so much for joining in. You know, they can't keep a brother down. One of them's gone, but then my Afro-Latino

Hermano, bienn, for you a yu'a yu'i say, graces. What you're going? Grazie. What you go? Love you guys. Talk to you.

Bye. Oh. We love you, SKB. We missed you. He didn't comment on the direction. He didn't. Huh. That's curious.

He did say that the last little montage was beautiful. Yeah, that's technically direction. Yeah. Technically. Yeah, okay. We'll take it. We gave you all the compliments. Thank you.

Sterling, we love you, we missed you. And we did it. We did it. We did it. You know what? We did it. Sterling. You don't have to worry about us.

We're okay on our own dad. We're okay. We did it. John helped a lot. Well, I don't know. I just followed your lead. No, it's so. Nice having you in the studio.

Thank you for joining us. Such a different animal doing a hosting a podcast. Yeah. It's a different thing. I do not envy you guys. It's a different thing. But I'll come back if you allow me. Oh, please.

We would love it. We would love it. We got, we absolutely have to have you back for Miguel. For Miguel's episode. Oh, it's coming up. Yeah. I got to watch it again.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. Was the one and only time you watched it when we all watched it together? That's the one and the time I watched it. Yeah. That's the only time I watched it. And we were just sobbing in the world's most expensive resort.

Yeah. Someone sent me something, though, recently. They sent me a YouTube, I think it's a YouTube video. And it's just some kind of super cut of Miguel and Rebecca, like just their over the years. Over the years, all of their stuff. Oh, wow. And Nicole and I watched it together. Oh, cool.

I was like, oh, somebody just sent me this thing. And it's just, it's just Miguel and Rebecca, the whole. How long is it? It's long. It's on YouTube.com? I heard of it. I think it's YouTube. He's out of Vimeo, but like it was, I think it is YouTube.

But it was, I mean, emotional for sure. I'm sure. Because you kind of forget all these little micro moments unless you've been watching the show. But even that, it's like it's hard to, I mean, we were just recounting with Chris, like an episode from season two. And I'm like having to think back, you know, like 90. something episode ago. Yeah. So Miguel,

but watching that is going to be, you know, it was hard to watch it the first time because it's just so emotional, but watching it again is going to be tough.

We'll do it together. Let's do it together. Maybe you and I should get together and do a live rewatch. Let's do it. If you like this podcast, tell a friend, subscribe,

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Anyways, that was us. That was us. That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da da da-da-dum. That was us. That was a hate gum podcast.