That Was Us - Deja and Malik's First Kiss | "The Dinner and the Date" (407) with special guest Asante Blackk

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 7: The Dinner and the Date. Malik and Deja skip school to explore Philly, which leads to a dinner at Beth and Randall's with Malik's parents to discuss how to handle their relationship. Meanwhile, in the past, Jack and Rebecca welcome Randall’s teacher, Mr. Lawrence, to their home for dinner. Plus, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling chat with Asante Blackk, AKA Malik, about his journey leading up to This Is Us, what it was like playing Malik, memories acting with Lyric Ross (Deja), funny memories in scenes with Sterling, and so much more! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Brought to you by Bombas, One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item DonatedHead over to https://bombas.com/ and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. - This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/TWU and get on your way to being your best self. - Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/twu for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00 – Welcome Back to “That Was Us” 🎧 Mandy Moore and Sterling K. Brown catch up on life, healing, and why This Is Us remains the emotional balm we all need. 03:35 – Philly Vibes & Cheesesteak Debates 🧀 Deja and Malik’s adorable date begins with laughter, local eats, and some serious cheesesteak talk. 7:10 – The Real Philly: Malik’s World 🌆 Malik takes Deja off the tourist trail to see his real Philadelphia — the heart, soul, and neighborhood connections that define him. 12:30 – First Crush, First Kiss 💕 A beautiful young love story unfolds — from butterflies to that perfect first kiss. Tender, honest, and unforgettable. 19:59 – Meet the Parents: Pearson vs. Hodges Dinner 🍽️ Randall and Beth host Malik’s parents for a dinner that’s equal parts hilarious, tense, and eye-opening. 22:02 – Open-Toed Shoes & Open Minds 👠 Beth’s comic brilliance shines as she tries to “keep an open mind” — and open-toed shoes — during the world’s most awkward dinner. 27:21 – Dinner Table Drama & Class Clashes ⚡ Class, culture, and judgment come to a boil as the families size each other up — with grace said and shade thrown. 38:19 – Truths, Tensions & Tattoos 💬 Randall and Malik’s dad find unexpected common ground after a night of confrontation, honesty, and reflection. 41:07– Parenting Lessons & Redemption 🙏 The Pearsons face their own biases — and learn that love, not control, is what their daughter really needs. 41:56 – Flashback: Jack, Rebecca & Mr. Lawrence 🕰️ In the past, Jack invites Randall’s teacher over for dinner — and the night reveals deep insecurities and unspoken lessons. 58:20 – Langston Hughes, Identity & Healing 📚 A moving finale as young Randall recites “I, Too” — a powerful reflection on identity, belonging, and love. 1:01:3 – Spotlight on Asante Blackk 🌟 The hosts chat with Asante Blackk (Malik) about his acting journey, music, and life lessons from This Is Us. ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we are diving into season four, episode seven, the dinner, and the date. Randall and Beth invite Malik and his parents over to discuss how to handle Deja and Malik's relationship, but the evening quickly takes some unexpected turns. Meanwhile, in the past, Jack and Rebecca welcome Randall's teacher, Mr. Lawrence, to their their home for dinner. Hello, friends. Yes. Here we are. How are we healing?

Yeah. Give us the update. It's a good thing we got this couch now. It is a good thing I got the couch. The couch comes in handy. I don't want to put my foot up on the furniture. How's it going? It's going fine.

I'm able to do everything that I need to do, so I'm blessed with that. I can drive a car, which is cool. You can't drive the lane. No. No, no, no, not. It's a basketball term. It is a basketball term. It's sad.

Thank you for breaking that down for me. Sorry, yes, yes. I was like, drive in the lane? Drive down the lane to the hoop. Okay, got it. I know a lot about basketball. This leg, Sully, Mandy, it is a shadow of itself. Yeah.

Like, you, if I, and when I look up close and look at them, like I have a little bit of moment of grief, you know, grieving. But I'm okay. You're going to be like that character from Lady in the Water. with the one giant muscular arm and one tiny little arm. It's going to be like that until I start the rehab. So I still got about probably six weeks of wearing this thing before I can get back up to it. But it's neither here than it's there.

Nobody cares. You guys care. We care. Our listeners care. Our listeners care. That's right. The three people that I live in a house with. They don't care.

No. No. And you know what? We get it. I said this before. I don't do a good job of asking for the help that I need. Okay. Do you then hold an internal resentment? No.

For not getting that help? No. For people not reading your mind about the help you need. You're on it. You're definitely on it. Because that's me. I'm just saying that's me. Yeah.

I'm just... I don't, well, the reason why I don't have that thing that I'm holding on to is because she's got to get these two boys ready in the morning to work or whatnot. And I'm like, all right, bro, just figure it up. Yeah. Just figure it out. Just figure it out. So I figured it out.

Well, I'm glad you're figuring it out. Thank you very much. I appreciate it for the sake of all of us and your family. But I am enjoying watching this is a... Let me tell you, the show is a real bomb. It's a real B-A-L-L-M. It's a real bomb, like, in this moment of just sort of like, all right, what I'm going to do with my time, et cetera?

Like, every time I watch it, I am infused with a level of joy that I was like, oh, thank God I have this show to watch. For sure. Yeah. I definitely feel the same way. It is a bomb. It's a bomb for these times to... It's just like a respite to be able to go back in time

and remember filming these episodes. And also, again, not to overstate it, but we are in that period of I don't remember what's happening on the show. Which works out perfectly for your character's timeline. I'm like, what? So you didn't remember anything? No. There's a couple of ones that I didn't remember,

and then I remember shooting the stuff between you and I. I do remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll talk about that. We'll get to that. Because I do remember one particular thing. Okay, I can't wait to hear what you remember. So this is the dinner and the date.

It starts off with Deja and Malik. Yes. Yes. They have a very playful rapport going on. I think this was shot on location. I think they shot this in Philly. They went to Philly for some of this, for sure. They went to Philly because we shot earlier stuff when we were running up the steps and doing the Rocky stuff.

Was that the same trip? Same trip. So they just sort of like creatively did it so that they could do this date. And we shot that opening earlier. But, like, yeah, we're on the same trip. I believe. Yeah. So, four thought on that.

Yeah, I was like, they must have had this written already. Yeah. And or gone at the very end before they had to, like, insert that footage into the episode. Right, right, right. Yeah. So they're talking about cheese steaks, first of all, so you're the food connoisseur, food. Are you a cheese steak man? You've been to Maxis?

To Maxes. Is it great? Is it bomb? It's the best. Yeah, yeah. It's hands down. Is it because it's cheese with? and not? No, I mean, you could get it any kind of way. Okay.

I mean, there are ways that you're supposed to order it when you're there. I don't remember how I got it. All I remember is for the 48 hours that I spent in Philadelphia, I tried five different spots. I didn't eat five cheese sticks. I tried five different spots. Sure, like bites from five different places. And when I do this, when I tour a city for their food, it's usually when I'm by myself

because I've got like a day to kill or whatever. Yeah. I've done it in San Francisco, too. It's good place to do it in big cities. Yeah. but I walk, no matter how far it is. I walk. Yeah, yeah.

So, up hills and miles. I walked, I think that day in Philadelphia, I think I walked close to like eight or nine miles. Okay. Just, all right, I'll go try that place, and then I'll try this place and spread it out over breakfast, lunch, dinner, walk around. And Max is by far as outstanding. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so someone did their research. They knew what they were talking about.

Well, so Kay Ojegoon, who wrote the episode, she went, I believe, to Temple. So she spent four years in Philadelphia. There you go. There you go. So she knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so while they're talking about, like, you know, cheesesticks and stuff, they're just having these sort of faint memories of because she's visited Philadelphia before.

And she tells Malik so much. Like, didn't I told you I came here. Like, as a kid, I came with my, my Gigi, my grandma, my mom, not her mom, maybe, but whatever. They were on this trip and she remembers the thing. that kind of keeps popping into her head was like driving the car and looking at these like Christmas lights. Yeah. And she doesn't quite know what to make of them or what that means, but Malik is really intent on like giving her a day of not touristy Philly. He's like, I want to show you my Philly. Because you've gone with Randall, you've done the Liberty Bell, you've done all the

stuff you're supposed to do, but like you need to see the real Philly. That's right. And she says yes. Yeah. They skip school. They skip school. Which for somebody like Randall, It's like, come on, man, school is my jam. Oh, yeah, we knew exactly where this was going. Skip school. We knew where it was going so much that they didn't even, like, play the day out. The next scene is not getting off the bud. It's not getting them having a day.

It's cutting straight to the end of her being caught. Here's a question. So this is like, like how it all functions. Do we talk about the date? Do we talk about the date and go back and forth between the date and like the Pearson's, meeting Malik's parents? Like, what do you think is the best way to sort of address it?

I say, let's just do the date really quick. Let's do the date. And then we'll go to his parents coming over for dinner. Yeah. So what's the next thing we see at the day? Flash forward. Oh, flash forward.

No, not Flashboard. Yeah. I guess like Malik's showing her his city. Yeah. They go into Max. So she talks about how she's just moved around so much in life that she was never a regular anywhere. And she really, she clocks that like when,

like, everyone knows him in the neighborhood. He has a cheese steak named after his grandfather. Everybody knows him. They know exactly whether he wants to order. And she's just like kind of, she clocks that and regales him with like, I've never lived anywhere long enough to be a regular anywhere. And he like very kindly takes her outside. And she's like, what are you doing?

And then they walk back in. He's like, this is Deja. This is her first time here. But like, she's going to come back. And they're like, hey, Deja. Hey, Deja. Yeah. Norm.

Yeah. Very sweet. Very sweet. Very sweet moment. Very sweet moment. Very sweet. The day continues. They're checking out murals all around Philadelphia, montage style, as we like to do.

I think we saw The Magic Garden, which is a, there's a, there's a house in, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a read, I just pulled it up on Google Maps. It was a place I visited while I was there. It's a funky folk art venue that provides mosaic galleries, a sculpture garden maze, and educational programs. But it's this, like, house that an artist started like just putting broken tile. on the outside of. Yeah. And now the entire house, including, like,

the surrounding two or three buildings are now all covered in broken glass and tile and are mosaiced out. But, yeah, it was one of the things you saw in the montage. Okay.

I love that. Philadelphia's finest. Getting it, get in the granular. I like that, Sally. They went to Rita's. Where's Rita's? Ritas was like the ice cream. Yes.

Or maybe it's custard or... Frozen custard, yeah. Okay, come on now. Ice cream? Don't come for me. Guys, sorry, sorry. I'm a Florida girl, so I don't know the difference between, I don't, I didn't have, grow up with frozen custard.

We had, we had, uh, custard. We have this place called Ted Drews in St. Louis. This is a big deal. What is the difference? Custard has eggs? Is that, is that right? Does ice cream have eggs, though, too? It does.

I think ice cream has eggs? Ice cream doesn't have eggs? It doesn't? No. I don't know, guys. Someone find out for us. Rachel grew up with Jarling's Custard Cup. in Champaign, Illinois.

It's delicious. It's thicker. It's kind of like an American, it feels like an American gelato. It does. Okay. Oh, okay. There you go.

Okay. Selle, you're correct. Nice. I knew you were. He does. He tells her that she's beautiful. And she's like, does that work on other girls? And he's like, I've never tried it before.

Yeah. So sweet. I'm like, I'm so charmed in one over, Malik. Yeah. he shows it to her favorite uh to his favorite spot which is this park right yeah beautiful park and he parks down to like this one spot and then just like like we all do just lays in the grass yeah it's funny too because he's so calm and she just like lays down next to him like is this something we we do do people lay in the grass like just sort of like figuring it up and then their

fingers like slightly creep towards each other yep and they hold hands they hold hands oh and then he, like, looks at it. And he gives her a look like, hey, should we do more than hold hands? And she looks back and she's like, I got to go. Yeah. Right. She gets a little scared. She's like, there's a little too much for your girl.

Yeah. I don't know you like that. I don't know where this grass has been. I don't know who's around. I need to go. Right? And then she winds up telling her. What does she tell him?

Well, she finally admits that she was scared because she has plans for her life. Yes. You know what I mean? It's like this is moving very quickly. She doesn't, I think she doesn't completely trust it. That's what's so scary. Yeah. He apologizes for upsetting her. And then she admits to having butterflies and sort of feeling like, look, but you can say you've never done this before, but you have a daughter. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like clearly you've done something. before something more than what I've done. At least once.

She's like, I ain't done none of this before. And I don't know if I can trust this or trust anything that you say. You know what I'm saying? I mean, the whole episode is us, is the audience trying to figure out what Malik is about? Yeah. Is Beth and Randall trying to figure out who Malik is and Dacia? Yeah. Like, okay, is his game that he doesn't have game?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, or is this, how many times, who are you? Right. Like, and what are we doing? Yeah, I know. Everybody collectively is getting to know Malik. Yes. Yeah.

At the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, okay, so then he tells you later, he's like, I don't have game. He's like, I like you, right? And he said, he talks about the long-term relationships that have happened in his family. His mom and dad have been together since they were young. His grandparents have been together for decades and decades. He says, I feel like I disappointed people by things not working out with me and his daughter's mom or what have you.

And he's sort of figuring it all out. And he says, look, I'll take you home. But there's one more thing that I just want to show you. Can I show you the one more thing? Right. And she grabs his hand. And this young lady says, show me. And I'm like, hey, now.

I'm like, listen, young lady, there was a lot to that show me. Yeah. Going on, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was just, okay, so inside baseball, if indeed we ever get a chance to talk to lyric again about it. Like, she is really nervous. Because I believe this is our first on. Yeah, playing the romance of it all.

And sort of like, he's like three years older, you know? And at that age, three years is like... Is it a gulf. It's big. Sure, sure, sure. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I think, like, as the character is saying these things, it's also sort of reflecting, like, Look, bro, you're 19, I'm 16.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, good writing. Yeah. It's good writing. Yeah. So what's the one thing that he winds up showing her, Mandy Moore?

He ends up showing her the lights that she saw as a kid. Yeah. Which is like a beautiful culmination to the day. Yeah. And sort of, again, like a Pearson gentleman, even though he isn't a Pearson, like grand gesture. I was like, yep, in like the litany of all of these like incredible men on the show, he does like he does the big swing and like it works out for him. It does.

Yeah, it works out. And they share their first kids. They have their first little sweet kids. I mean, it just did it not bring you guys back to being young people and the butterflies you feel on the first crush and just like those early relationships when you're a young teenager like that? It's just like, it's, everything feels so seismic and like, you know what I mean? And like, like, life changing. And you don't know what you don't know. But also, like, this is like just the handholding, the spending time alone with somebody.

Like, all of it is just like, yeah, it's life changing. I'm wondering as the audience, like, they, the audience hasn't had enough time to spend with Malik and Daj or whatnot. But as a, as someone who's watched TV, you know, their whole life, I remember when Kevin Arnold kissed Winnie Cooper. Does that mean anything? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You guys, he did it for me.

Oh. Yeah. Because you wanted to kiss her. Did that. That's right. For everybody who was 11 years old at the time, it was like, yes. That's right. It was a big one.

That's right. I wonder if anybody had that same sort of feeling when they were watching the show. But it was a great date. And she even says when she talks to, to her parents and will dovetail back into the Pearson's meeting Malik's parents. She talks about at the end of it, and then we'll flash forward. She says, listen, I know I made some mistakes with some things. I know I skipped school.

I know I was dishonest, et cetera, but I'm not apologizing for this day. Right, because this was the best day of my life. And you're like, all right, I get that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't deny that for her. We get that.

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corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Training Treadplus at OnePeloton.C.A. So, so now going to the Pearson's, they arranged to have a dinner to meet with Malik's parents. What's Malik's last name? The Hodges, the Hodges family. And the Hodges family, uh,

played by Omar Epps and Marcia Stephanie Blake. Loved Omar Epps, like my whole career. I frequently jest on the show. It's like, if I mess up, Omar Epps will be here and will take my role. And they came close. They were like, this is the way to show how you can be out brown if you don't mind your manners.

Keep it together. And then Marcia Stephanie was one of four people who auditioned for Beth Pearson. Right, right? So it's like, we like find a way to get them back into the show. I think that's Dan's. M.O. It's like when he, I think when he likes an actor, it's, he finds a way to weave them back in, at least in my experience, I mean, Marsha, Stephanie Blake is a perfect example.

Alex Breckenridge, I think is another example. Like, I just feel like there's these little examples throughout like the course of the series of Dan being like, I like this person. They ought to be a part of the fabric somehow. Right. Sure. Should we backtrack just a little bit to talk about the reason that they're inviting the, uh, the Hodges over for dinner in the first place. So we kind of see before, before we actually see this date peppered throughout the episode, Deja sort of getting caught, I guess. She, you know, Beth is sort of reprimanding her for skipping school. And I think collectively she and Randall decide like we need like these kids, like we can't keep these kids away from each other, right? Like how did that work out for

Romeo and Juliet. Right. So we should get to know his parents. At least, like, see who they are and maybe together team up and recognize, like, how are we going to keep these kids apart? Because I'm sure they're feeling the same way. Totally. They don't, it's like they're clearly not a great influence on each other if they're skipping

school together. Right. So let's invite them over and let's, like, you know, figure out a plan of attack. She, Sue has two episodes of the row of just delightful, comic genius. Oh, yeah. And talking about recruiting them to keep the kids about it. And talking about her open-toed shoes.

An open mind. Keeping it open. Yeah. Do you see what I? And I was like, what is she talking about? She's like, look at my feet. And he's like, what? And she's like, open-toed shoes for an open mind.

Like, what? That is not, uh, I don't make that correlation at all. Oh, all right. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Sure. It's so dumb. Let me remember that.

I love the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. High heels for higher thinking. Yeah. Totally. Like what, what?

What? I'm never going to remember that. No one says that. Not making that connection. And she makes it like, it's like a thing that I should know. Yeah. She's like pointing at her feet. Like.

That everyone knows. Yeah. Open toes. Keep an open mind. That's why I have this open-toed boot. Anyway. The Hodges come over. Oh, well, we see them in their car talking to Malik.

And you can see that mom's a little bit more. on edge, where it seems like Randall's the one who's more on edge in his house, and mom seems a little bit more on edge in their, in their family. Would you say that? At first, yeah. At first, right? What is she talking about? Because dad seems real cool.

Everybody seems to be having the same conversation. They're just, like, disappointed, upset. Like, who is this girl? She's clearly a terrible influence on you and the way that, you know, you know your child, you know your daughter. And it's like, this is so not like her. who is this terrible delinquent influence on her. So it's like everyone's having the same conversation.

They're just upset that like they've both missed school. And like who are these parents and like, oh, he's a councilman and I'm good. There's clearly on both sides like some sniff of class judgment. Yep. Right? A little like little like how are they not, well he's always at there working and she's doing the thing. and, well, they must have hired help to watch the kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and vice.

You know, it's like, and this boy has a baby. So, like, there's, like, some class warfare brewing. Yes. I think even in the course of the next few episodes, between the Hodges and even my own family, everybody talks about the size of my house. Yep, this is a downgrade? This is a downcising?

This is beautiful. It's pretty funny. Yeah. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. I love that, yeah, every day. one without fail. That's the first thing they say when they walk into your home. Wow. Did you got, I have a hard time picture. I mean, maybe you did, but like, did you have any of

these, like, have you ever had like a, I don't know, this seems like a come to Jesus gathering over a relationship? Like, I have a hard time, I have a hard time believing any parents were ever upset having Mandy Moore come over. I never had, no, this situation has not occurred in my own life. Yeah. You guys? Yeah. Have you? Yeah, I mean, kind of. There was, when I, when I asked for Rachel's parents' blessing. Yes. I made a special trip to her hometown while she was traveling for work.

Okay. And I hung out with her family and I was there for like three days. And I was like, it's not the right moment. And it's like, oh, right, there's never a right moment. So on the last morning I was there at breakfast, I was like, so just so you know, Part of my plan here is to ask your daughter to marry me. And like the tone shifted. Hold, it's not bad.

It's not bad. It's not bad. There was a tone shift. Yes. That was like, oh, okay. And phone calls got made. Text messages went out. And I spent the next three or four hours talking to her parents.

And slowly but surely, her other family members started showing up the house to join the conversation. Her sister, her other sister, her brother, her brother was not in town, or was he? What was the conversation about? It was just, they just wanted to see you. They, yeah, they were like, it was, it was as if the board was being gathered to figure out, to give the decision. Did you have the feeling that they were on your side or were they?

Ish. There was definitely, there was definitely a vibe of an actor. Okay. Actors are fake things for a living. I've been there. Yeah, sure. Like, you know. Okay. Sure, sure, sure.

Which, you know, they're not wrong. It's like, I get it. Yeah. But also it's like, yeah, it was a, it was a, I think, do we watch? No, we didn't watch home movies at that meeting. But there was definitely, there was definitely a convene. of the board to discuss a meeting of the minds to see is he worthy that's why i didn't ask yeah because she would have said her mom would have said no yeah so anyway that's good yeah we'll just

jump past so uh the hodges make it to the house and uh randall is ready to warmly greet etc gets promptly shushed by the mom because the baby is asleep oh yeah it's like that's a lovely way to Hey man, don't shush me when you walk into my house, but he was cool. He tried to be, he was saying, but as an audience, I was like, you're going to shush me? Oh, I felt the same way. I was like, ooh, that's not engendering kindness. But then everybody starts to greet each other. Hey, how are you doing?

That's finally nice to meet you. Everybody's talking like this. Oh, man. Really, everybody's got their, their mask on. Yes. Barely. It's like hanging off their face. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Barely on. But Malik's dad says, like, yo man, I used to trick-or-treating this neighborhood when I was young and I always wanted to see what one of the inside of these houses looked like, man. So you must have broke the bank on this one or not. Or maybe not. Or maybe not. Again, just these little class warfare. Implying, like, how bougie they are.

Yeah, yeah. Brand is here. I think Malikstad just called us bougie. He goes, we are kind of boozy. He's like, bad. I don't want them calling me boogey. Yeah, that's right. Which, by the way, speaking of which, like, I feel like my wife, who I love, who I chose,

who I'm so happy to share a thought, my wife is bougie. Like, born from it, like, she attended something called Jack and Jill when she was young. Some people know about that. Some people won't. When her parents retired, so she grew up in Stanford, Connecticut. I told you guys this. I think we talked about while she was here. She grew up in Stanford, but then they retired to Durham, North Carolina.

Right. And they had a house built up from the ground. But it's Durham so, you know, not as expensive as Los Angeles, but still, you know how big their house was? Yes, I remember. I remember. I told you this. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. What's the number? It's like 20,000 square feet or two? 14,000 square feet. It's got like an elevator inside and everything. And I remember one time going to because they have a room for her. It's almost like a wing that they have just for her when she comes home and everything. And she has a little four poster bed like she's frigging, you know, Hermione Granger's some crap. And I walk into her. the room and it's all decorated and has like Ryan Michelle like lettering and like big brick you know letters and everything. And I said to her, I said, I hope you don't expect this when we get married. And she's brought that up. Like this was like over 20 years ago. She's like, you remember when you said like I shouldn't expect this or whatnot? And I was like, yeah, because this is two people live in the 14,000 square foot house. That's crazy. And the interesting thing about it is like

for the longest time in our lives, it's like any sort of success. I felt like I had, whether it was Army wives or anything, I felt like, well, I'm already sort of above what mom and dad did. And mom and dad would be, look at you, man, that's good. But not above where her mom and dad did. You know what I'm saying? So it was a very interesting sort of negotiation. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. What's the face? You made the, what's the face? No, no, no. I'm just trying to wrap my head around all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a lot. It's a lot. So wait, they, we essentially all sort of break up. up the ladies go and they're talking to each other.

She's giving her a tour of the house. What happens with Beth? Yeah, they go upstairs. And Darnell helps Randall with the first. In the kitchen, right? And the kids are sitting in the living room and they're playing with the baby and everybody's having a good time, right? And then Kelly asks Beth how long Deja has been with them and just remarks about how, I

Sister. I know. Sister. You got to. These two. Wait a minute. She talks about, like, how hard her life has been. She talks about how hard it must be raising somebody else's child.

Yes. And then Beth is like, yeah, it must be, right? I mean, you would know all about that. Raising your son's daughter, your grandchild. Dude. Your granddaughter? It's masterful. It's masterful.

The microaggressions. I mean, other than Kevin and Randall, this episode is the closest we come to violence. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's still to come. That's the season. Oh, Lord. Is this season or is the next five?

It's this season. Oh, that's right, because flashing forward is in the world of nine. Let's not jump to see. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm excited. God, you're right. So it's funny because downstairs, it seems as if Randall and what's Malikstad's name? Darnell.

Randall and Darnell is sort of hitting it off, you know what I'm saying? And Randall's clocking a few things about. Darnel's like sort of tatted up. He's noticing his tattoos, et cetera. He was looking over at the kids and just sort of marveling at the idea like one day you're somebody's whole world and then somebody else comes into it and you sort of get pushed to the side. Yeah. Right? And sort of just going through that grieving process of like, oh, there's another boy here.

There's another guy here to occupy space, right? Not tripping, but just sort of like noticing the whole thing. Darnell clocks him clocking his tattoos. he looks at him. He didn't say anything. He's like, you want to say something? You can if you want to. Donnell, cool. Yeah. He's trying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's trying. He's been real cool. Beth comes downstairs. She said, man, I need to talk to you. We got to get something out the pantry. I can't remember what it was. But she says something like lists three things that don't go together. Yeah. He's like, the chips and the dip and the, and the oil or something like.

You need my help for that? We go into the pantry and we have pantry wine. He's like, you keep wine in the pantry? She's like, look, man, I'm about... I have three kids. Yeah. Yeah. Don't judge me.

Don't judge me. I got to make... So this isn't even for tonight. She just keeps it in there all the time. Just there. Everyone's around got to get a little nip. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Take the ad job. And you can tell she's at her wit's end. Yeah. Right? She's like, this woman is going to, it's pushing me. She's got my last nerve. She's going to make me leave my spirit? Something like that.

It was a great phrase. It was wonderful. Lose my spirit. She killed this whole episode. Yeah. We sit down for dinner. And I've had this happen. And this happened to Ryan and my sister-in-law where we were about to celebrate Andrew's first birthday.

And we were like running around like a first birthday party trying to organize everything, whatnot. We're like, all right, everybody, go ahead and sit down and eat. And then my sister-in-law goes, well, isn't somebody going to bless the food first? And Ryan was like, was like, if you can't see me, you hear, I'm making a face. Yeah. Yeah. I like trying to collect yourself and take a breath.

Yeah. And it's funny because like even in our house, we'll say grace, we won't say grace. Like we'll say like there's a thought that's happening that we're, you know, blessing the food, whether it's internal or external, blah, blah, blah. But when folks come from out of town or whatnot, we're like, we should probably say grace so we don't have to catch grief from anybody, you know what I'm saying? And this is what happens in this moment. Annie has a couple of singers.

Yeah. There are certain family gatherings in our family where we don't just say grace. It's like an altar call for me to gather around. And my favorite is competitive praying. Sure. You know what I'm talking about? I know exactly what you're talking about. You've seen this maybe from the south where someone throws out a prayer.

Yeah. And then someone chimed to, and also, Lord. I would like to Or Like trying to top the prayer And if you forget something And let us remember to bless the hands That prepared this meal

Yeah May they be You know Of course Lord I would never forget To bless those hands Yes And what so then

So then Marcia Stephanie Kelly Kelly decides to She says Kelly would you do to honors And she does But then in a very backhanded

sort of way, like, even though some of us may forget to recognize you on a regular basis sort of thing, dude, it was... And then Randall's just like, all right, well, thanks for that. Pass the chicken, you know. She was bringing it. Yeah. I mean, every turn. Just trying to keep things smooth and moving.

So the dinner's going, all right. Randall's talking to Darnell. Here you got a body shop. Let me know if I can ever do anything for you. Darnell doesn't say anything. He's like what you did. You saw a brown man, meaning did you vote for the other person? And then I was like, actually, I don't really mess around with politics and voting.

I just take care of me and mine and what's happening on the block. Goes a little quiet. You know what I'm saying? If somebody who obviously ran for office and thinks that that is an important part of, like, responsibility, it's like different people do things, different places, right? That's what's happening in it. Baby starts crying, right? Malik, like, jumps up to go tend to the baby.

Malik pops up to take care of the baby or whatnot. I think Tess is like, can I help? And everybody's like, no, you sit your ass. down. And he's like, no, like, you know, she likes new people. Please come out. So that happens. And then how does it escalate? Like what? Well, Annie, and then Annie tells her like, oh, Deja, you're kind of like her stepmom, which was a good zinger, as you were saying. Yes. Faith had some good zingers in this episode. Killing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they send the girls.

Everyone's like, no, no, she's not, definitely not. Not doing that. He sends everybody to go upstairs or to go to their rooms or whatnot so that the adults can talk amongst themselves. Yeah. Now, I'm going to tell you what I remember about this scene. Yeah, I was like, and then the gloves come off. I'm going to tell you what I remember about this scene because, like, I remember Ken sort of like, like, Ken was so deft and careful. He's like, I don't want it to be a parody and I don't want it to be sort of like bombastic

or whatnot. I want it to feel lived in or what have you. Yo, put two sisters together that like have, he didn't have to worry about any of that. He didn't have to worry about none of it. Because I'm telling you, like, I think Omar probably felt the same thing that I did. Like, when they sort of escalate, so the escalation is. Which isn't an interesting, real quick, a real interesting, like, subnote of two actresses who competed for the same role. That's very true.

Like, and here they are face to face. It's like, you want to show me something? I'm going to show you something right now. We'll show you who won. That's right. Delivered. Yeah. And it was a situation about, like, we both agree that they shouldn't be together, right?

But for different reasons. It's like, you clearly don't know what's going on with your daughter. You know what I'm saying? She went to the movies with our son and everything and what she didn't tell you. So clearly you don't know how to take care of that. And, like, I think Beth May said something about Malik being a young father or something. Did she? Yeah, yeah.

Right? And so there's judgment going both ways. Randall chimes in at a certain point and says, look, we worked really hard to get Deja out of the situation that she was in, right? And we have, we don't want to see her go back. They're like, back. Darnel's like, back to what?

And then Randall's like, man. You know what I mean. Man, you know what I'm saying? I didn't mean it. He's like, no, man. You were saying something. Go ahead. Finish. Yeah.

And it's like, never mind, y'all. Like, I just, and he caught himself, right? He caught himself in a moment of, um, bias or judgment that he didn't even know that he was holding. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And then at that point, Darnel starts to undress. And like, I as an audience, we were like, why are you taking your shirt off?

I couldn't remember why he was either. I was like, well, geez. Because from where I'm from, that means like, we're going to fight. Yeah. But wasn't that sort of intended to be a bit of a misdirect? He was like, okay. Yeah. And really, he's taking his shirt.

shirt off to be like, I saw you all night staring at my tattoos. Like, I've lived this life and I've come a long way from it. And it just like, it all illustrated like the bigger picture of like, everybody walked in with these preconceived notions of who everybody else was. And they weren't even open to like letting someone be who they truly were. And they were doing that to their own children. They walked in thinking they knew who Deja was. They walked in thinking they knew who Malik was.

Yeah. And so this evening was just like to illustrate that like we all, we all should have like just taken these these notions off the table, I guess. Yeah. And it's so it's funny to kind of like the, like you were saying, they both, neither one wants their kids to be together. Right. But as soon as they find out why.

Yeah. Now they're kind of fighting for them to stay together. Sure. until because now they know the reason that the opposing team is putting forward. Yeah. And it really has everything. Yeah. Because Malik's parents are like, you don't know Malik.

He's like a straight-A student. Yeah. And he's a really sweet boy and he's a good kid. Yeah. So don't write him off. You can see him as like one thing or you can see him as what he is. But you're not going to write them off. As this fully fleshed out formed human that he really is.

And the same with Deja. Right. Same could be said for everybody in this scene. So it turns out it was a parental issue the entire time. Very much so. Yeah. So they apologized to days. They said, she's grounded, you know what I'm saying, for a week because she did lie or whatnot.

But you are allowed to see Malik. Supervised? Supervised. Yeah. Right? Either at our house when one of us is here or at his house when one of his parents is there. And they ask her to tell him about him, right? And she says, like, he's warm and nice.

And he's the kind of person that everybody notices when he walks into a room and just, you know, just sort of regales like the loveliness of Malik. And that sort of doves tales into the kiss that they shared earlier in the night. It's a good storyline. It's a great story. It's a really good storyline. It's one that like I'm really was excited about because rare is the opportunity. And even in the past, too, where you get a chance to see many different black folks on a mainstream television show that have very different perspectives and points of view.

Sure. That don't always align with one another. You know what I'm saying? It was really fun to do. So, y'all was cool. And we have that in this storyline, too, this other storyline with Jack and Rebecca. Right. This is what I was about to say.

This is like my favorite storyline. I love that storyline. Yeah, it's great. It's great. Let's get into it. So Jack and Rebecca are having Mr. Lawrence, Randall's teacher that he is enamored with, him and his wife over for dinner. And we find Jack getting very dressed up. Yes, we do.

He has on a blazer and a tie? I always wear blazers. Yeah, and Rebecca's, like, really giving him crap about it. And she finds it curious that he invited Mr. Lawrence over because Kevin's teacher, Kevin's been asking forever for them to have his teacher over. The school nurse. Yeah, the school, sorry, the nurse, not the teacher. We quickly find out why. Yeah, because she has big boobs.

She got big boobs. Yeah. It's really good. And Jack sort of writes it off, like, no, no, no. Like, this is, Randall loves this teacher. Like, we should have a boobber. It's not a big deal. It's not, you know. So he arrives.

We also see Mr. Lawrence getting ready with his wife. Oh, that's right. And I just was going to point out. Yes. His wife. So it's Brandon, what's Mr. Marshall's real name? Brandon Scott. Brandon Scott.

He was on something else at the time, too, that I can't remember. But he's a really wonderful actor. And then his wife is this, Sky Pete Marshall, who's on Metlock right now. She's wonderful. Really good. Wonderful. Wonderful. They both.

And she just had like a couple of things. And she popped. She totally popped. And also I just. remember her being on, both of them were so warm. They were so happy to be there. But like, you know when somebody's just like comfortable on their skin? Like she exudes it in this part. Like that very much was her essence on set too. It was just sort of like so happy to be here. And like, I would be terrified to like walk onto any set. You know what I mean? That like where you're

just popping on for a guest star. When you were cooking up with Vinnie Chase, were you terrified? Yes, I was very nervous. Were you really? Yes, because you're like, like you're jumping into someone else's world and it's a well-oiled machine and everyone knows each other and you're just like, you know, coming in for your day or two of work or something. So I always admire when guest stars are able to like walk in with this sort of confidence, know what they're there to do and executed and like enjoy it while it's happening to. They both were very much that, that ilk of actor. They're great. Enjoying it while it's happening. Yes, yes. Still learning that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Truly same. God, are you serious? Yes. You guys are so good. I find it, like, after the fact, I'd be like, oh, I wish I, yeah, that was great. I wish I had, like, been a little bit more comfortable in the moment to, like, take a breath and just, like, enjoy it instead of, like, racking my, you know, giving myself an anxiety attack. It's a form of PTSD, too, for the industry that we're in, right?

Where everything is delayed, where it's, like, all right, the audition. The audition was fine, but... Don't get excited. It will have been fine if I get it. Okay, I got the job. All right, this is great news. I mean, it will be great news if the pilot gets picked up. I mean, the pilot will have been good if the show gets picked up.

So enjoying in the moment. And it's just like all of a sudden you've done six seasons. And it's not that I didn't have incredible amounts of moments of enjoying this while it was happening. But like, you look back and you're like, how often... I just heard somebody say this on another podcast. And I was like, what a great, what a better way to do it. Like where people, you know, certain people, they delay their joy and they expect the worst. And they're like, and then if it happens, great.

Okay. But what this guy was saying, as he goes, as soon as I get it, I picture that I have it and I feel those feelings of having it. Yeah. And then I get like a month or two of like, oh, this is a thing. And I get the month or two of joy, and then a day or two of disappointment if it doesn't happen. Yeah. Versus a month or two of disappointment and a little bit of joy. Yeah.

So flip it. You flip it. Flip the percentage. He's flipped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a natural flipper. I guess so. But you guys are so good.

Like, it actually surprises me to hear that that you aren't. I wouldn't say that's like my baseline, but I definitely, like, I think I try to be more. intentional, intentional about the practice of being present and appreciating something while it's happening instead of waiting it for, waiting for it to be over and reflecting back on the past with appreciation. I got you. Okay. And these two actors both left you with that impression of like, oh, wow, that does seem like a better way to do it. That's how you do that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So they have a conversation and it seems as if both men, Mr. Lawrence and Jack, have like a little bit of juice going into this dinner, right?

And their wives, they're both clocking it. Totally. They're both clocking it. And they're both right and they're both wrong. Right? There's a little bit of like, Mr. Lawrence's wife is like, I see what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there's a little like, he's up to a little bit of something.

Yeah. Because he was looking at books to possibly bring to the house. and they're about the blackety blackettist of books. Black consciousness poetry. Yeah. To bring to his only black student homes. Yeah, that I'm saying. With his white parents.

He's like, yeah, I got something for you that you don't have. Yeah. Right. And then Jack is, you know, dressing himself up and putting on a bit of an air that is like, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. More, that was us after this short break.

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They have the exchange pleasantries or what have you. Randall's showing Mr. Lawrence's room. Well, also the handshake. Did I miss the handshake? Mr. Lawrence and Randall have a handshake. Like, he comes in and greased Jack and meets Rebecca and stuff. And then with Randall, they have a whole. There's a whole key and feel sketch.

Yeah. About how Obama greets, like, all the black people in the receiving line. And then the white people go in for a hug. And he's just like, hey, how you doing? Exactly. And guys, it is a thing. Like, it happens naturally. Like, it's like the anticipation is like, oh, yeah, you'll probably want

this, but my man is gonna want this. He's gonna want a whole thing. Yeah. I will say I have I have a bit of anxiety when I'm coming in for a black handshake to see if I'm going to be honored with the assumption

that I can do it. Okay. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like if you're watching, so there's this handshake, right? There's this. And then if it's somebody I know or if they see something in me and they're gonna give me the like the straight up The three, the three, and I'm like...

One, two, three. But I'm like, do I, I can't initiate it. Do I initiate it? Are you just wait for it to happen? You have to... Oh, my God. I'm telling you, there's like a moment where I'm like, is this happening? Because I know it's definitely going to happen if they come in like this.

It becomes, yes. Great, clear sign. Like a paw. Yeah. Yeah, like this. Then we're starting. We're starting here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a two-step. We're already there. It's a two-steper. But if it's a three-steper, I don't know if we're going past the first. step or not. That really got sterling. That really got sterling. Because I never thought about the anxiety

from the other side. I'm glad I could talk about it. Oh, the handshake was great. Thank you for not letting us miss that. The handshake was wonderful. It was great. It's also jacks seeing. It's violent expression, too.

I was like, oh, shit. Well, no, no. It was like him clocking. and like, oh, wow, they do that, okay. Something I don't share with him. Right. Yeah, right. So they go to the vet, Randall's bedroom.

And I love, like, it's just like, black nerds uniting. He's like, I see what you did there, Randall. He's like, but you missed one. You're right? Yeah. Not alphabetized. Not alphabetized, but in order of the year of publishing. Yeah.

Right. Has the books laid out. But you made one mistake. Yeah. Here, right around here. Yeah, let me take this book out. I'll extract this here. Kevin comes in.

It's like a grown-up Randall. Holy crap, he says. It's a grown-up Randall. Also, can we clock the Milo? Sorry, Jack. Yes. Talking about the different kinds of what he could have used. That, you know, because he's like talking about, he built.

I built it. I built a shelf. Did he say my dad bought this for me? Is that what he was like, or made it or got it or something like that? My dad got this for me. Yeah. And then Jack's like, built. built. I built it. I built it from this kind of wood, whatever. I could have used this wood.

Birch. It could possibly use that wood, whatever. I think it's it you that says. Yeah, you could stop listing woods, Matt, yeah. It's so weird. Yeah. This is, this is so good. I'm going to tell you a little story about this storyline in a second, because I remember the writers pitching it out, but I want to finish the storyline first. Okay. Because they go down to the dinner. They start talking about different kinds of dinosaurs and it gets really awkward. Yes. Right? Like theropods and something like, again, it only to further illustrate their deep connection

that Mr. Lawrence knows this about Randall. Randall shared this side of, it's like they're just two peas and a pod. He says something under his brothers. I didn't know you know so much about dinosaurs or something like that. He said something under his breath. It's an awkward moment. But also his teacher is like when we start talking about it. dinosaurs, it can get pretty intense.

Yeah. And at this point, I slide to Jack. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. That's my son. We get it. Yeah. All right. We guys have a connection. Yeah. Great. Take it easy. And then sweet Rebecca,

I think to just kind of keep the conversation rolling, admires Mrs. Lawrence's earrings. And she's like, oh, thank you. They're from Taste of Afro soul. Yeah. And they're all like, what? What is that? A frickin jewelry store. Yeah. Well, she says it's a festival or something that they have once a month.

Cultural festival once a month with all these different vendors. And yeah, they have some really cool stuff. Jack's like, well, I'll take my family. Well, Randall says, you know, next time you guys go, would it be okay if I came with you? And they're like, no, but that's okay. Right? Like, I'll take you if you need to. And when Mr. Lord has his own family, he can take them to that.

Everybody's just like. Oh, boy. It's not going well. Shots fired. It's not going well in the president. He has his own family. I'm like, Jesus, Jack. Okay.

Yeah, that's when Rebecca's. Yeah, just a subtle dressing down. Disappointed. Disappointed face. Yes, and then I think Kev chimes it. Kev and Annie are doing the same thing. They are. He's like, this is way better than dinosaurs.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And Jack says, I'll take my, I'll take the family too. And he says, yeah, maybe you should. That's right. Yeah, maybe you should.

Nobody backs down. No. Nope. Right? And I think we're used to like seeing like people sort of quiver to Jack Pearson. But Mr. Lawrence is like, no, bro. Like whatever you got, I can give it right back to, you know. And they do that all the way up until the end.

They say goodbye. They walk out the house. Well, go for it. Please. Rebecca does kind of like, like, oh, let's go. is it like let's go put some plates in the kitchen or whatever and she basically tells him like don't make our son make this choice yes don't make him choose between you and mr lawrence because he will choose you yeah and therefore he will be missing out on something that he really needs

like he needs this connection right with a black man yes this is something we can't provide him and um i just like i loved like i i love that rebecca is sort of like catching that yes And sort of trying to appease to Jack's, like, better self of, like, just don't, you're going to regret this if you continue pushing this and trying to make this point, right? Correct. So then the Lawrence, they do leave. They leave. And then I think you give them a look, don't you? Yeah, like, you need to go out and make amends with Mr. Lawrence.

He goes out, he calls Corey after dinner, and he says, sometimes. Sometimes my son has asked me these questions over the course of his life, and I always come up with something to say. But lately the questions he's been asking me a bit more complicated, and I'm finding that I don't have the answers. So there's like an admittance of vulnerability, which is really, that's big. That's big for Jack. That's big for any dad. For anybody. It is truly big for Jack to talk to this man and be like, there are things that I realize now that I may not be able to get.

give my son that you could. And he says, like, I can't teach him how to be black. And Mr. Lawrence is like, no. Yeah, don't do that. No, no, you can't. Don't do that, right? And so then he goes and he gets this book of Langston Hughes poems. And he says, listen, I was going to bring this.

My wife told me to leave it, but I think now it might be the appropriate time to give it to Randall. Right. And there's sort of a peace offering of sorts. Yeah. It's really beautiful. Yeah. I think even Mr.

Lawrence says, like, you know, I came to this. school to teach because I wanted to be the best and to teach amongst the best, knowing full well that I'd probably be the only one that was there. And then I met your son and I felt just like I had a little connection, a little kinship, you know what I'm saying? So I think he's also admitting that like if I did overstep, like know that it was coming from the purest of places, even if it was an overstep. Right? So there's, you know, that happens. And then this is, guys, Lonnie Chay Let me tell you something. Oh, my God.

This little boy can act. Yeah. Beyond. Because to understand, like to recite a poem is one thing. But to understand it. Jack brings the book of poems up, told me what not. And what does he say? He says, maybe I could read it to you something.

He's like, you're going to read poetry or something. He's like, yeah, I can read poetry or something. And he goes, you know, I actually memorized. My favorite. Yeah, one of them. And he goes, yeah, let me hear it. And this kid recites, I too. And you're like, and it's a poem about like how you, how black folks in America are relegated to sort of the unseen, right?

I'm putting the kitchen to eat, but I eat and I grow strong. And one day I will be strong enough that like I too am American. I too belong. I too am a part of the fabric of this country, right? And the way he says it, bro, how old was he? Twelve? Twelve? Yeah.

I know. But from the jump, let's be honest. With Lonnie, he was just like, so remarkable. Kid, can act. But yeah, it's like the subject matter, his delivery, his performance, like all of it. It was like, oof, this is so powerful. That shit hit me hard. Yeah, same.

Same, same. I think that's. That was it. But I also just wanted to say that. So this storyline was important to me. Yeah, please. Because I was talking to the writers about how I had this coach. Did I talk about this, we had this black coach.

We had no black educators at my high school. And this one guy came, and he came my senior year, and he was a coach. His name was Eric Bain, and he coached the basketball team. And all five of the black guys in my class, out of 126 students, we were like, ah, it's happening. It's our time, right? And we were so full of hope. And this guy, he did not see in himself an opportunity to be of benefit to the black boys in our class,

the same way that Mr. Lawrence was looking to be of benefit to random. And I'm so glad to see that example on our show. Yeah. Because it wasn't what, like, I experienced in life or whatnot. Because I'd waited my whole education to see somebody black. as an educator, as a mentor, what not. And he was just like, I'm just here for the check. What a missed opportunity.

It was a missed opportunity. It's a great episode. Thank you. No, this episode was wonderful. And again, it's like it just further digs us deeper into this world, like, expanding on, like, meeting Malik's parents. Like, it's just very, it's so interesting. Like, I think we all come, I came out of this episode with a deeper appreciation for Malik.

I think he was so charming and likable from. the very beginning. But it was nice to get this more fully realized picture. And we're actually going to speak to Asante. We are indeed. After this quick break. Let's take a break. We'll be right back with more than that was us.

All right. Welcome back to a very special conversation. We are talking to Asante Black. He's originally from Maryland. One of his first professional roles was in how I learned to be a kid at the Howard Theater in Washington, after which he got his first agent. He was cast as 14-year-old Kevin Richardson

in the miniseries When They See Us in 2019. Oh, incredible. The role earned him a primetime Emmy Award nomination, making him one of the youngest nominees in its history, right? That's so incredible. He appeared as a series regular on, of course, This Is Us from 2019 until the show ended in May 2022, for which he was nominated for a Critics' Choice

Television Awards. I mean, come on, man. He made his film debut in Corey Finley's landscape with Invisible Hand, which was released in August 2023. He later appeared in Story Ave, which was released in September of 2023. Let's talk to Asante. Asante, are you there? What's good, bro?

There he is. How are you? Look at black looking all. Grown up, bro. You see me? You see I got the little something, something coming out. That goes all the way around. That goes all the way down and back.

We got to get the cheeks to fill in, but it's coming. The cheeks come a little. You just keep shaving. I remember the first time, it took me a while for the goatee to connect. Yeah. The art goatee connected, like, at age 21 or 22. Like, it took me a minute. It's a process of patience.

You've got to let it grow long and then shave it all the way. Is that how it goes? Long and shave. What is the process? That's the secret of your success. I still can't grow anything. It's about gardening. Black, how are you doing, man?

Oh, man, I'm good, man. Are you in L.A.? Where are you at these days? Yeah, I'm out here. I'm going back and forth right now between L.A. and Maryland. You know, my family is right there. And so, you know, as much as we out here grinding, we stay and grounded as well. I heard that.

I'm good. So remember this, guys. When Black started, he still had a K next to his name, right? And so his family would be out here. Do you always have to have one guardian with you at all times, whatever? And in the middle of the show, we got a chance to work black for 12 hours. So it means, like, once you turn 18, it's like you have eight hours before and then it goes to 12 hours. What was the shift like for you, man?

Did you feel the difference? I'm going to be honest with you. That transition was just like, for me, there was a moment where I was like, really? Like, you guys want to, you sure you need another one? Like, I feel like that was my best, you know what I'm saying? I feel like I gave it. Hey, but listen, it's not about me, right? Look, we're collaborating.

You know what I'm saying? I'll be there for y'all. Yeah. But honestly, man, like, you know, I realize, like, wow, like, we're in the big leagues. Like, this is what I always told myself I wanted to do. Yeah. Getting a chance to really show up in that way. And, yeah, like, going from, you know, turning 18 on this is us.

And, like, you know, just being around y'all and seeing how y'all carried y' yourselves and then being able to go to other sets. That really prepared me, man. Like, y'all made sure that that K that was there was that K. You know what I'm saying? As soon as a Scientique Black, turn the Scientique Black. That was a little different. I don't know if y'all could feel the energy change.

Is it interesting now, like, after, like, your career up to a certain point, always having family around? And now I'm assuming you're out here on your own terms, like by yourself or whatnot. Like, talk to us a little bit about navigating life. grown and sexy like how's how's it going it's it's hard man it's hard tell him tell him bless it's hard to be that sexy listen listen it's you know I am a man of faith yes what I'm saying yes so I make sure I talk to God every single day I heard that brother you know we got we got things that we focused on we got things that we

came into this industry for I'm the type of person where like you know as much as me and you have talked about it, Brown, like as much as I'm out here, putting my everything into my acting, there's also, you know, the writing that I do. There's also, I've just recently started to dive into direct, and I'm directing music videos now. Okay, wow. Tell us about this musical equipment you are currently surrounded by.

Yeah. Founded by, oh, man, we are actually gearing up right now to drop an EP. I produce, I rap. I actually just started, it's a crazy, timing, too, because so there's the show Snowfall, super popular from like 2018 to 2020, something like that, maybe even a little bit before them, but they're doing a spinoff, and my character, let's just say, he's musically oriented, you know? Okay.

You know, it was kind of like perfect timing to be able to come, move out of my parents spot, I'm moving to my friend's spot, he's moving back home, he's like, hey, bro, just take all the music, equipment, figure it out, like, learn, like, you know, study up, do what you got to do to really, you know, put your all into this character. And so, look, man, when I say being grown and sexy, it's hard, you know. Wait, so, Assamese, was music something that you were doing before this role, or is it something now that, okay, okay. Yeah, my whole life, my whole life.

And, like, you guys know, like, you know, Mandy, like, it's interesting being an artist that has so many facets of themselves that they want to share with the world. You know, you're always like figuring out, oh, man, how do I do it in a way that is, you know, maybe not overwhelming or how am I making sure that people aren't confused? Wait, you're on this and now you're doing this, right?

And so, yeah, I'm just taking this time. I'm taking this time to focus to really make sure that I'm treating this the same way I would, my sides, you know, or, you know, the, you know, the, you know, callback sides. or whatever, you know, this is, you know, what I've been blessed with. I've been blessed with this opportunity and, like, music is just something that, yeah, it's had a very personal and spiritual connection, you know, to my life. And so I'm just excited to be able to focus up and dive into this next chapter, yeah.

That's so exciting. Can you take us back? How did you get involved in acting? Was it, was it something, like, is it a family? business? Is it just something that you found on your own and decided to pursue? And then I want to also ask how this is us came into your life. You're about to find some stuff out. Paint the bigger picture. Yeah, yeah. It's really weird. You know, it's almost like one of those, uh, one of those stories where like things kind of just lined up exactly how they were supposed to be. You know,

I never, nobody ever told me to act and I never had to, um, to ask to, you know? It was kind of just like what I just did, you know? You know, we all had these stories like being kids and entertaining our parents, you know, and our siblings and doing these stories with them. But my real first introduction to the craft was in preschool, you know, and my... The craft in preschool, yeah.

Yeah, come on. Now that's going to be out there doing whatever. We showing up, you said, what plays this again? I'm pretty sure I don't know any of those lines. You know, they kids, they're doing their things. And my best friend to this day, his mother actually was the math and science teacher, but she wanted to bring an arts program to the school just to, you know, make sure that

we had something at that young age to be able to, you know, really put our energy into. And, you know, I think that I was kind of lucky in a way because being that young, you know, that was the cool thing, you know what I'm saying? It was like, oh, world, we get to go on stage and dance around and sing and, you know, And it was just a blast, you know? And so, like, you know, doing that, I think that it was just meant to be, you know what I'm saying? I got down on one knee at that moment, six years old, you know what I'm saying? And I knew that this was exactly what I wanted to be doing.

And it followed me. It just followed me until I was finally of that age where I had to, you know, your parents started getting in high school. They're all right, all right, that was fun. But what you're going to do now? Right, right. And that's when, you know, you got to kind of take things into your own hands. And so I did as much as I could. I did whatever I could to study up.

I did whatever I could to buy as many books as I could. Did all the plays in high school. And, you know, like I said, I'm a big believer in, like, spirit and spirituality and universe and all of that. And I guess that the universe just hurt me. And it saw all of the energy that I was putting into this job that I didn't have. I was in high school still. And I got the opportunity after my junior year of high school. So summer going in the senior year, I, you know, been putting in this work four years,

just grinding it day out, day and day out. I loved it. And there was this opportunity on casting networks that said, we were looking for five young boys between the ages of 13 and 18 to play 14 to 16. The story is about five young kids. Central Park in New York City in 1989 were falsely accused of a beating and rape that they did not commit. And I was like, wait a minute, have I? This sounds like really familiar. And my parents, they make sure that me and my siblings are educated on everything that happens in this country,

everything, you know? We're not leaving anything out. And so I go and do a little bit more research and I see that this is the story of the now exonerated five. And it just clicked. And it just clicked. I knew. I've been putting in all of this work for all of this time. I ain't about to wait on my agents, no, you know what I'm saying? You felt it. I'm about to find this to raise email. I'm going to do what I got to do. You know what I'm saying? And like, you know, it was a process, but everything just, you know, I stayed patient. I stayed humble. I stayed true, faithful. And wait, tell me about the audition, because this is the break. Like, tell me about the audition in the process of getting this job. Don't skip this. This is good. Yeah. I want to

I want to hear. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So at this point, you know, like I said, parents, you know, you get to high school, they're like, all right, you got to fix something out, you know what I'm saying? But my parents, they knew that I wanted it bad and essentially said, you want this bad. You need to go out and find your own representation.

You know, we live in Maryland. I don't know where you're going to do it, but if you really want it, you're going to do it, right? Okay. And I did. You know what I'm saying? I found a little boutique manager that hooked me up with a boutique. agency in New York. So I was able to travel from and take the train from Maryland all the way up to New York for the day. And we would go up there for this audition that will last five minutes,

me and my dad. And then we would go around eating halal, you know what I'm saying? And then come back and get back on the train or the bus or whatever it may have been at the time. I went in there and I just remember I was doing so much preparation for this role. You know, the character that I was So auditioning for at the time, had a little bit of a, of like a Lisp and like a, you know, just things that I was able to play with. And I go in there and I'm thinking to myself, it's now or never. I got to put it all out there. That's a little bit of a trick.

For any actors that's watching, don't ever think it's now or never because it's not. It's not. Too much pressure. And let's go again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not one shot. Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. But, man, I bombed that audition. At least I thought I did. Really? You did not feel good. It was terrible. I got out of there and all of the energy that was focused, I was so locked in. I go in, I do my thing. And I get out, I'm just like, well, like, all right, well, I'll get the next one. Like, I'll be all right. Okay. Okay. And this was a process, man. This was a process. You know, I end up going back home. I don't hear anything for a little while. And, you know, maybe like a couple of months go,

My team, they reach out to me. They're like, hey, so they're coming back to this thing. They're really ready to start getting into it. Ava DuVernay would love to see you in L.A. What? I ain't never been to L.A. before. You know, like, this is like, man, this is like the time period where I have a screenshot on my laptop of the view of L.A.

Because I knew I wanted to be there, you know? And Ava DuVernay wants to see Asante Black in L.A. Come on, right. You know what I'm saying? That is, I'm like. like, okay, you know, I ain't even going to question it. I guess I did do my thing, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

I see her in LA, man, it's an amazing experience, you know, like she's just so warm and I'm doing chemistry reads with a few other guys and, you know, it ends up being that thing that you hear as actors often. That was amazing. We'll stay in touch, you know. But, you know, it took another three months for me to hear anything back. Really? That's too long.

Oh, my goodness. Too long. I was sitting on pins and needles, man, and like, I even remember, like, you know, just having such an alignment with this role, which, by the way, is not the role that I ended up getting. We'll get there. But this role specifically, I was so locked into it. But two weeks later, you know, my agent reaches back out, hey, so, you know, Ava really loved your audition, you know, and she really loved you in the room, and unfortunately, they have

found their Corey Wise. Oh, my God, man. I've been auditioning for this part for five years. Not damn near, you know, five years. Like, that's what it feels like. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, okay, they found their Corey Wise. But they want you to come in and they want you to audition for Kevin Richardson, right?

At this point, I've made the rounds. I've been in New York. I've been in L.A. I'm home. It's the summertime. I'm getting ready to be a senior. So they're like, you know, just self-tape it, you know, and we'll have you do that. But this is like, okay, now it's all of me.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do know. The situation where you're like, okay, all right, starting over. What else can I do, right? Yeah, you've seen me do the thing. Exactly. I get on that tape, man. And that's quite possibly one of the greatest audition tapes

that anyone's ever seen in the audition tape. You know? I told him, like, I showed him straight up. This is the one. Like, y'all go, y'all going. Anyways. Yeah. later. I get a phone call, right? It's an LA number. Who is calling me from LA? Who is calling me

from this? This is he? Oh, yes, this is Ava Du René. I just enjoyed your tape so much. It was absolutely amazing. And your choices that you made, your transitions were beautiful. The way that you were able to go from beat to beat. I knew that I wanted you in this project, but we just found somebody who was able to play Corey Wise that older and younger and we could stick with the same actor so it had nothing to do with your performance but I wanted you in it

and my cast and director goes well we still don't have Kevin yes yes bring me him bring me in this Kevin and we said we need him we need him on tape and you did it you did what we thought you could do and we're and I'm so excited

to invite you to come to work with us in two weeks two weeks holy after wait months Yeah. You know what? Downs of the wire. Let's do it.

So that's the story, man. Wow. That's amazing, too. Thank you for sharing that. This Is Us must have been a cakewalk. Yeah, exactly. Comparatively. This Is Us was just an audition.

Yeah. It was just an offer. Wasn't it an offer? No, no, that was an audition. Really? Okay. Yeah. Also, you know, right next to the When they see its audition is one of the greatest.

Just, mm, just if, you know what I'm saying? They got to put out like a school of auditions one day. I might have to do it myself because that's, you know, ask Kay. Ask Kay, ask Josh, ask everybody. That was phenomenal. No, that was an audition. That was an audition. And it was the scene where Malik is coming home.

And his mom goes, don't wake up that baby. And Malik's like, whatever. You know, I'm going to talk to my little girl. And it's a big reveal that, oh, this isn't your sister. This is your kid. Right. And, you know, during that moment, man, I had. I decided, like, I don't know, I think I was just listening to a lot of Stevie Wonder during that time.

So I started singing in the scene, which wasn't in the scene, but, you know, I'm just like, you know, my girl is asleep, right? So I'm going to start singing as if she loved it, you know. And, you know, I'm singing it to her and, you know, just having a moment with this teddy bear that's in my hands, you know what I'm saying? Obviously not a real person. But, you know, that was like, yeah, you know, it's interesting, man. And there was something there in that role, too, that, like, really made me, like, oh, wow, I got to show up differently for this. Because, you know, and I've talked about it before, but I had never seen a kid my age be treated with that level of respect and care, you know, on television. So, and, like, I'm curious, like, when you guys found out about that arc, like, what did you all think, you know?

What was you all's reaction to this 17-year-old or 16 at the time, right? who has a child and it's supposed to be joining this family, right? I think, like, the same way that I feel like Dan masterfully does with most characters that he thinks society will relegate and sort of put in a very specific box as, like, this is the totality of who you are. He has the ability to lovingly humanize and make you a fully fleshed out person. Instantly. And then present that to the world in a way that hopefully they will never do that again.

You know what I'm saying? They will never even think about just being like, oh, this person is that, and clearly they don't deserve my respect. They don't deserve my time. They don't deserve any of that. And then they get a chance to see an example of someone who's like, oh, actually what I thought was just this is a fully beautiful, capable, vivacious, like, vibrant human being.

And that's what I was joyous about. There's actually never a moment with Malik where you don't respect this young man. You know what I mean? Like, there's never, there's never, like, a red herring or, like, a misdirect. There's the point where he may go and work for the dude that his dad used to work with in the past, but he's also like... For noble reasons. Preschool cost 10K, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I got to figure this out. I got to do whatever I have to do for my daughter. It's like, wow, I mean, you can't fault someone for that. And so all of the, all of the, like, getting to know that character comes through the... We were just talking about it in this episode, but the parents, the parents who have the skewed view of... who this young man might be or or but but his parents know exactly who he is yes and and yeah it's it's it's that's an interesting perspective on dan's way of like not only is he gonna is he gonna show you this full human being he's never even gonna give you a moment yeah to doubt this

young man right i mean and and we really don't at least that we've seen so far no not at all you're great dude like you tell us a little bit because we're just watching 407 now so tell us a little bit about that time in Philly with lyric and sort of working with her through like that first date and everything and what you remember about the process of working with her about that storyline and about the dinner that we did later on. Oh man, I just remember like that whole episode being so fun to work on.

Because like, man, first of all, you Brown don't know how to take nothing serious, you know what I'm saying? Man, I'm like, that's never as a truer statement been made on this podcast. I'm Mr. Malik. And, dude, I'm trying to, I'm trying to come through and, like, you know, and represent myself well to, to, to, to Mr. Pearson, you know what I'm saying? And so I remember this very specific moment where, like, you know, I'm introducing myself. And I go, hello, Mr. Pearson, nice to meet you. And I go for a DAP, but he goes for the, he goes for the formal shake, right?

Yeah. And so I'm going for the DAP. It can be nerve-wracking. He can go for the formal, and I change it real quick. I go, you, like, that was probably such a funny moment on screen, but after the take was over, yo, he would not stop talking about it. He's like, yo, like, when you get ready to meet, it's like that meme with Barack Obama.

He's dabbing people up in the heat. We just talked about that. We just talked about that. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. And as much attention as there was, like, we really did have to get to me to like what this issue was, you know, with these these young kids who like obviously had fell in love, you know, and like, man, I just loved that episode of like, you know, the

courting process. You know what I'm saying? I think that that's something that is lost in black entertainment a lot of the time, you know, it's like I think that a lot of the time we see, you know, the end result, you know, they're either already hooking up or they already have their family or, you know, whatever. But that process of actually showing somebody that you want them, that's special, you know. Yeah. And that's your series, you know.

And so that was such a fun episode to like just, you know, really tap into, I'm not gonna lie, that was, that was, yeah, that was a cake walk. Like, I'm gonna love her boy at heart, so like, it's easy for me to like, you know what I'm saying? I was like showing lyric around. I was having a great time, you know, just making sure she had a good time. Yeah. And being able to react off of her, man, like, wow, yeah, yeah. Just thinking back on like just the pieces of this phenomenal cast, man. She expertly breathed life into that role.

She got sold, bro. Y'all both do. Both of you guys together are just extraordinary. Like from the jump, just that first introduction when you're eyeballing her at that barbecue, I'm like, oh, this is something. This is special. And you're right. I was just saying, as we were recounting the episode, like seeing this courtship is so tender and beautiful.

And it's like, if you're a human being and you've ever been in that position as a young person before, it, like, it immediately takes you back. Totally. And it's so beautifully illustrated by the two of you. And yeah. Then there's also that moment from like the other side, right, where, you know, I think that a lot of, like, I've experienced this, I've actually, like, this is a recurring, I don't want to say recurring thing, but like this happens a lot. You know, I'm somebody who I like something. I like it. You know, I'm passionate. And I want to, I want to be able to, um, you know, I want to be able to, um, you know, kind of show the world, you know, just a little bit of happiness, you know, and a little bit of love in times where, like, you know, the world almost doesn't seem like it's nurturing it. And so, you know, a lot of the time as a man, I think that that courtship

process, you know, you get from the other side, from the woman, what do you want for me, you know? What is your, what's your game here, you know? What are you trying to game? And I'm going to be honest, like, that's, it's really interesting, too, because, you know, know, I guess as humans, like, we, whenever we're recording somebody, of course, we want something, right? We want companionship, if it's that, or we want, you know, a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen. But, you know, that hesitation from the other side, you know, from women to, you know, kind of give themselves up to an emotion that maybe is so strong. Yeah, bro. Man, it's hard because I just be like, come on, baby, like, I'm cool.

Like, you know what I'm saying? I can take my time if you need me to. Black, you know better than anybody else. In order to risk being loved means to risk being hurt. You know what I'm saying? There's a vulnerability of opening yourself and sharing yourself with someone that says, like, okay, I'm trusting you with my heart. If it goes bad, then you have the ability to hurt my heart.

So there's going to be some reticence, big dog. Yeah. You know how to take your time. You know what I'm saying? It's not anything about you. It's about what I'm offering up. And I don't necessarily share this part of myself with very many people. Yeah.

So it takes a moment, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's my truth. Listen. Well, tell us, okay, tell us about the spinoff because you've given us generously of your time.

You look handsome, big dog. You look good. I'm happy to see you. I'm going to give you a call and just check up with you. Tell us what's going on with you right now. And tell us, do you know, the name of the spinoff? and when does it shoot and hopefully it'll get picked up

and then they'll be able to see it. Talks about what's going on with you. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we don't have a title yet. We're still pending. We're still in the works, but we have shot the pilot, you know, which is phenomenal.

And essentially, you know, spent off of Snowfall. So for those that don't know, Snowfall was a series that really centered around the crack epidemic in 80s, LA, you know, and how cocaine was this, you know, huge party drug that was being used by everybody.

And it turned into something that was, you know, as much as it was already sinister, turning to something that was even more, you know. And so this spinoff that we're doing essentially follows up right after that story and shows the output of what the crack epidemic in 80s, L.A. did to the West Coast hip-hop influx. Wow. Right. So in the 90s in L.A., you obviously have N.W.A.

You have, you know, too short. What does that NWA stand for? I'm serious. Don't say it. Go ahead. Keep going. He grows with that. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, you know, like hip hop was booming, especially in the West Coast at that time, because it came from the East Coast in the 80s, and then the West Coast had all of this, you know, just pints up aggression from the way that the government really did target these black communities with Coke. with crack to break apart the family and essentially, you know, kind of start our own war zones and that's where these gangs came from. So, you know, the world is a little bit more trying to take a step outside of not, it's in the neighborhood. The neighborhood is where the music comes from.

But it's okay, how do we take these experiences that we've been through and how do we go worldwide with it and how do we make this music and like, you know, kind of take our pain and turn it into pleasure. So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a. It's a good story, man. It's a good story. And like, I'm excited, you know, as soon as people, as soon as I know more, I'm gonna let you know.

So what are your socials? So if people wanna catch this EP when it drops, where can they have- How many- Yeah, that's the honesty what I should have been talking about. Well, what are your social so we can all know when it drops? Absolutely, yeah, hit me up at Asante Black,

that's A-S-N-T-E-B-L-A-C, double K at the end. Don't forget the double K, baby. Two-Ks. Very good. Do you know when that's going to drop? I do. Springtime. We're coming out with an EP. Five songs. I'm excited to take you all along on this journey. Under your name or is it under like an artist's name?

Okay, great. My name. Great. Cool. Fantastic. I love this next chapter for you. This is amazing. It's so fun. It's so fun. Thank you for your time. It's so nice to see you. It's so nice to catch up. I can't wait to see this show. Fingers crossed that it all comes to pass. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you, Blair.

I miss y'all for real, you know what I'm saying? So it's good to, good to see you guys. Invite us to the premiere of the spinoff. Yeah, we'll be there. We'll be there for the EP. All right, y'all. Doses. Peace, Black.

That was such an incredible episode to recap. And so grateful to Asanti for coming on the pod. I love him. He's a great kid. He is just... He can't even call him a kid anymore. He's a great young man. I know.

I know. He's a great young man. He was so magnificent. as Malik and just so fascinating to hear his journey into getting when they see us to this is us like I just yeah can't wait to see everything that he does really forward yeah cool episode like subscribe yes check sound on Spotify support those sponsors tell your favorite episode with your favorite person or your least favorite person doesn't really matter doesn't matter does just share um yeah teach him something there you go you know what I love doing this with you guys

I want to continue doing it. It's always a joy. Yeah. All right, let's. Let's meet you guys back here next week. Let's do it. Great. That was another episode of That Was Us.

That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da da-da-dum. That was us.