That Was Us - Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

On this week’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 3, Episode 2: A Philadelphia Story, and the incredible Ryan Michelle Bathe joins us! As Randall sets out to make a difference in the neighborhood his father once called home, Kevin searches for deeper meaning in Jack’s past. Kate and Toby ask their family for support (not their opinions) as they move forward with fertility treatment. Mandy, Chris, and Sterling reflect on it all and chat about their favorite childhood breakfasts, who’s most (or least) like their This Is Us character, and so much more! Support Our Sponsors: - Build the best summer ever with KiwiCo! Get $15 off on your Summer Adventure Series at kiwico.com/TWU. - Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for DeleteMe. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan today by texting TWU to 64000. - For a limited time, go to ⁠⁠SpotandTango.com/twu⁠⁠ and use code twu to get 50% off your first order. - For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to ⁠Quince.com/TWU⁠ for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠X⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of that was us, we're diving into season three, episode two of Philadelphia story. Rebecca searches for a new home while navigating the kids' looming college decisions. Kate begins her IVF journey, which sparks some family tension. Randall becomes more involved in his father's old community, and the entire Pearson family comes together for Kevin's big. big movie premiere. Mandy, Chris, how the hell are you guys doing today? Well, how are you?

We're doing very well. Today on the podcast, we're joined by a co-host of the smash hit podcast. We don't always agree. Ryan Michelle Bathay and Sterling K. Brown. Hi, guys. Thank you for having me. Welcome to our set bird. It's very sweet.

It's so awesome. Real true story. The wife threw me a little birthday party last night. It was a get-together. It was a get-to-gare. A casual hand. A casual hand of sorts. That happened miraculously.

And while I was watching episodes or whatnot, she was like straightening up the kitchen, doing all these wonderful things to keep our house in, like, pristine order. I was, like, for the record, you know, I don't want to faint it. I do love you. I love you a great deal. I think you are a quality human being. Nobody was questioning that.

I'm not making sure. Nobody's so. I mean, that's a nobody. For posterity. I put her on record. You're the homie. Oh, I'm glad you had a nice time last night. She's not just here because she's my wife.

She is a part of our This Is Us family. She plays Yvette, counselor to the Pearson's in the past. We meet her for the first time in episode 104 entitled The Pool. And they have Rebecca and Yvette have a wonderful sort of introduction to one another. There's a confrontation. Yes. We can call it like a day. With real quick.

I'm curious, for you, what do you recall about your first time being on set and playing those scenes with Mandy? I recall a lot. I'm not going to say the first thing that comes to mind when I remember. This is a safe space. Okay, okay. Please do what you're going to do. I remember there was that guy with the MAGA hat and the glasses. Oh, yeah.

He was so scary. We won't say his name, but I know exactly here you're talking about. And he was really tall and he was always carrying a lot of things. And it's like, you know, I get why people have glasses because obviously it's outside and we're at the pool. And I get, but it was just, there was something, very intimidating. And I was like, is he doing this on part? Like, it felt, it felt purposefully intimidating. And I remember that a lot because he would, like, walk past me.

And I would always try to, like, avoid him. It's a pre-election. It was. We all decide what we're going to wear to work in the morning. And that was a choice. Yeah, that was a choice. And that I wouldn't have made. Yeah.

You could have made another choice. But anyway, I remember that. You remember. I remember being very nervous. Are you nervous? You're seasoned professional. Talk to me about that. What's my favorite movie being Julia?

Just nerves are the nerves are the something that we pay. The nerves are the tie that we pay our audience, dear. Because she's like really nervous. You guys remember that movie being Julia with, with, what's your name? With Old Girl. With Old Girl. Yeah. Oh, you know Old Girl.

Yeah. You know who Or Girl is. I can't think of her day right now. Anyway, it'll come to me. But the point is, is that that's what I think why, you know, I'm always nervous. I hear you. Especially you go on somebody else's set, somebody else's playground. You don't know how things go.

You don't know how people really are. You don't know what to expect. And it was such a big day because it was the pool. I mean, it was an, you know what I mean? So many extras. Like all the logistics of being on a location we had, yeah, it was outside. It was hot. Yeah.

And then it was older. It was like an older pool because it had to look older. So things weren't really like, you know, you're like, is this a place? to code? Yeah. That's a no. You know what I find interesting about, like, what I recall from that episode and conversations that we've had, like, we've been at parties with really lovely people

who have adopted, a white family that's adopted, like, black children, right? And on a couple of occasions, I want to say, but I remember being at a friend's party and us looking at the daughter's hair and sort of like, do you, you don't remember this? And, like, you were like, I wonder if I should say something about her hair to her parents. Yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? I don't know specifically, but I feel like that's happened a couple of times with us. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

We feel like we, you know, where I question certain things and should I say something, you know. What is your place? Well, I'm not Yvette. No. No, but still, I mean, like, does Yvette just chime in unsolicited? A little bit. A little, very much. But I think.

I feel like in Yvette situation, and you know it's funny because I'm very much down this rabbit hole of like adoptees and like how to do an adoptee centered adoption and like all of just just the how the rhetoric is shifting around adoption based on people who have actually been adopted, you know. And like you really get a sense of like how we talk about adoption actually from the point of view of more so the parents, even though the parents. who gave up a child for adoption or the people who adopted the parents. But it's not always from the child's perspective. So it's been really interesting to me. And I think that Yvette knew you or knew Randall. Randall had come over and introduced himself. A couple.

The idea is that he had built this relationship with the children and these people. That was why he chose to go to that particular pool. Because he knew his friends would be there. Right. And so I feel like she felt in my, In my mind, Yvette felt empowered to speak on behalf of the child and not just this random family that she didn't know. She did have a relationship. Yeah, there was a relationship there.

I totally agree. Even if it wasn't with Rebecca. The mother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Okay. Well, we'll talk about how you factor into this particular episode as we weave through it because there's going to be a tie-in that we'll come back to. But how does this episode start, gang?

Who wants to take the top of it? I mean, it opens on the most depressed Rebecca we've ever seen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She is reeling from the death of her husband. She's making coffee. She's in an apartment now. Yeah, sort of a nondescript apartment.

Yeah. Like transitional housing, nothing really personal about it. Yeah. And the kids are kind of floating around trying to figure out what's going on. There's two things that happen almost immediately. there is an envelope from Howard University, right? And she's like, rejection letters don't usually come in three-pound packages, which is, can't tell you, this is non-applicable for the person who just decided to just start a career.

But for everybody else who, like, did that whole college thing, McGregor, what was it like when you received your acceptance letter? Yeah, I mean, it was... Were you excited? Yes. Yes. Yes. Could have fooled me. Yes.

So excited. Yeah. So excited. You got the big envelope. Yes, yes. Did you get in everywhere you applied? I did. Okay.

I did. Good for you. SKB? I did. But it was such a thing because I actually got my acceptance letter on April 5th. On your prom. I got it on my birthday. And I remember we were talking in school.

They were like, if you get rejected, they give this like a small envelope. But if you get accepted, it's like a big thing. And I remember seeing like the big, I think it was Manila. And it had Stanford on it and had like, Maybe that congratulations, like, going crossways on. And I was just like, spoiler. It was a great day. It was a great day.

Ryan got in everywhere. And listen to tell them, tell Rye, tell everybody our audience where you applied to school. Come on, Bert. Come on. Come on. Come on, come on. Okay, fine. I applied to Georgetown.

Yep. Wash U. Princeton, Stanford, Spelman, Columbia, and Harvard. And Harvard. Save the best for last, girl. That's right. You see how she helps? You see how she helps.

Just to make sure you had options. You see how she held that? That was just like, well, let me just let y'all know Harvard right in there like that. And was mad. So what made you choose Stanford? There you go. That is a really good question. So, you know, it was a very hard decision.

Because I didn't have a lot of like help, you know, like in terms of like navigating the process. I had help in terms of like getting it. Like I knew what to do to get in. And then it like, everything fell off a cliff. Because I don't know that it occurred to me what to do after you get in. I just, I mean, again, you're 17. Yeah, who would? Yeah, you just are like, I got to get in, I got to get in.

I mean, you're like, I guess. And then you'll figure it out from there. And then you, yeah. It felt like basic application. Like, I went to a very nice high school that had all the resources. Sure. It was like, here's how you apply. But I don't think anybody knew anything about theater.

And I'm like, I didn't even know about NYU. I didn't even, I was, like, it wasn't even an high. I didn't realize, like, the difference between a college with a theater major and a theater program. That's interesting. For some reason, it just wasn't in my purview at all. Because they didn't speak about, I don't know, they just. My school did. But you went to.

It was, I was very similar to Christmas school. Okay, well, I went to a public school. So maybe that's why. No shade. Like, I loved my public school. But what was the difference in terms of Stanford versus Harvard if there was a school? And Spelman, which I think is going to tie into this episode quite clearly. Oh, yeah, that's actually.

So I grew up on the East Coast. Yeah. And I think I felt I understood what my trajectory would be had I gone to a Harvard. I mean, I knew Princeton was out for other reasons. But it basically came down between Spellman, Harvard, and Stanford. Okay. And the only reason because when I went to visit Princeton, it was raining and it was depressing. And all the buildings are Gothic.

And I literally was like, I'm going to get possessed. This is a vampire. No, it was like, but not in a good way. You know, like gargoyles, but also not in a good way. And I was like, they were like, do you know what an eating club is? I was like, well, I'd be on the menu. I don't know. No, thank you.

No, thank you. Would you like to join our eating club? And they're like, I get drunk every week. It was just a good. Anyway, so it was those three. So it was those three. And I felt very clear, like, if I go to Harvard, I kind of had this very clear vision of who and what I would be.

Yeah. But I couldn't pin down who that person would be or who I would be if I went to Stanford. And because it was such an unknown, I was like, I wanted to see. Did you visit all of these places? I did. You did. I did. So wait, in terms of this episode, too, because why Stanford then over Spelman?

So, and had to do it all over again. Maybe I'd make a different choice. But when I visited Spellman, I was also in an organization. But we didn't meet. When we visited school, they have something called Black Recruitment and Orientation Committee. Brock Weekend. Where they bring, like, black students to school. But neither one of us went to Brock Weekend.

I was doing all my sons, senior year of high school. And so couldn't make it to that weekend. And you had to miss it for something else. Yeah, I had shit to do. I was busy. I had things to do. But I was in Jack and Jill. That's probably what I was doing.

You were busy letting hard. no, you would not be attended. Yes, I was probably counseling with them. Like, so listen, this next time this happens. What else do you have to offer other than acceptance? Spellment. Spellment. So when I went to visit, because I had having been in Jack and Jill

and knowing all of the kids on the East Coast. Jack and Jill is a mother's organ, African American mother's organization, where their children get together. It's a mother's group, but it's for their children and sort of for their social development to sort of augment the black experience, especially if they tend to occupy predominantly white spaces

to make sure they have a connection to culture that is also present in their lives. Got it. Got it. And so, and it's, the older you get, the more it becomes like about your region, right? And so you can imagine, back in the day, living on the East Coast,

you can hop in a car and get to Boston. You can hop in a car and get to D.C. You can, you know what I mean? You're on a train. So we were just all over. We were in Philly. We were in D.C. We loved to go to Brooklyn.

We thought it was so. Because we lived in Stanford, Connecticut. You know what I mean? So we were like, we want to Brooklyn. We want to Brooklyn. You know, it was like 40 acres of a mule. So we just thought we were so cool. And I thought I was super cool in, like, Jersey.

And, like, you go to the Jersey parties because they play the house music. And then, like, in D.C., they played the go-go. So you just felt so, like, sophisticated and worldly. That was the extent of sophisticated and world. I understood. I understood. I understood. And so.

But so. When I went to Spelman, having had that experience, I saw so many people that I knew. And it didn't, and it was, it felt good, but it also, again, felt very familiar. You wanted something different. I did. I did. I did. I did.

For college, that sounds understandable. I got you. I wanted to go somewhere without expectations of who I had been, informing who I could be. And something sunny. And that helped. I didn't. Sunny is not bad. Bad hell.

I'm telling you, one of my main things from St. Louis is like, I wanted either black people or sunshine. So I applied to two schools in D.C. I applied to Howard and Georgetown. And I applied to USC, Claremont McKenna, and Stanford University. I was like, I'm going either way. I'm going to get these black people. I'm going to get some sunshine. And I wanted to get them both.

Quick question for you, because I never, I know, like, you've been doing this for such a long time. Was there ever any thought in your mind? as to like pursuing formal education concurrently with career? Or you're like, no, this is what I do? I guess I thought about it more after the fact. Like once my friends started graduating, it kind of dawned on me like, oh, I guess like that experience has passed me by. And did I really miss out on something?

Which I do often think, like, my trajectory was just something inherently different. Yes, absolutely. And a different education. And a different education. Yeah. Yeah, but it sounds fun. Hearing you guys speak about it, I'm like, oh, wow. I think you did just fine, Randy Moore.

I think four years of being able to just figure out who you are, make mistakes without the world watching, without having the sort of adult responsibilities. Yeah. That, to me, sounds really alluring. Did you feel older than what you were? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

There was no way around that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're thrust in an adult world with all of those responsibilities. Like, I was always still allowed to be a kid, too. Sure. I could go to the mall. I could go to the Beverly Center and go to CPK with my friends and like see a movie or something. But it was still, yeah, I was then, you know, you put on the work hat.

I got something different. But never learned to read, right? But I never learned to read. It's overrated. She has to do scripts like voice memo. People read them to them. Exactly. This is how rumors get started.

Okay, like for real. There are people who literally have to fight rumors that they can't read. We'll be right back with more. That was us. Guys, remember how summers used to feel endless when we were kids? Long days, outdoor adventures, getting your hands dirty, building forts. We're exploring the backyard. Now KiwiCo is bringing that magic to a new generation with their brand new summer adventure series.

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let's see if I can turn this into this thing. Because so he gets accepted to Howard. We know that he visited Howard and that he had a great experience. And I think for a character like Randall, who this felt unfamiliar to him but familiar, right? It was not a part of his life, but he very much wanted it to be a part of his life. So my man had a big smile on his face when he got that acceptance. And this whole episode is about, for this storyline, it's about the future of these kids. Yes.

Their trajectories. Yes. Who's going where and Kate. How and why? Yeah, and all these things and expectations. And, of course, Kevin kind of gets left out. Left out. And it's another example of him just being here.

I guess I'll just be here. until we get to the end of this storyline and we realize that people are changing their trajectories. They are indeed. So Randall gets his acceptance letter. Then he's hugging his mom. Mom is in tears and she's crying, right? And Randall kind of clocks it that.

Like, she's having an interesting emotional response to this. Like, are you happy? Yeah. And she's like, of course I am, darling. You're happy tears. But happy tears. Kate comes in, she's like, you two get a room because everybody thinks that me and mama love each other inappropriately.

It's not true. I just want to be clear. Obviously. We just love each other. It's just such a... That was always a funny thing for me. I'm like, why do they love each other? But there is a bit of like a hard boundary that's being kept.

That's like an odd support. Like there's maybe a little bit of too much of an emotional scaffold put on Randall. Yeah. Possibly? Randall, we're getting ready to go meet with the realtor. Like, this is kind of the beginning of Randall's. assuming what we find later in this episode

that Randall sees himself as the support system for the entire family and if he doesn't do it everything will fall apart. There's some codependence right there. No, it's true. That's a good point, Chris. Because then Kate,

and I clocked it immediately and I was wondering how you guys felt about it. We see Kate come in, get a room, whatever, go straight to the Pop-Tarts, pops a Pop-Tart in, And I, hats off to hair and makeup, because you can see that they've started to like put a little bit of weight on her. Yeah, right?

I noticed that. And you see Randall clock it. Uh-huh. And you see like him waiting for mom to clock it. And she doesn't. And she's like, doesn't. She's like, we're out of these, by the way. Hashtag Pop Tarts, brown sugar, and cinnamon.

Used to be my Mickey Ficky Jam. That was your joy? Strawberry Frosted. And let me say this. I don't know if we'll ever have them as a sponsor, and you guys can always It's about the worst thing you can put in your body on the planet. I think about that all the time.

I'm like, our parent, well, my parents, let me have a Pop-Tard or a toaster strudel. Do you remember those? I definitely remember Tollas. With, like, sugar on top. Because you got a packet. Yeah, did my Reese's peanut butter puff cereal. They had a cereal? That's what we ate.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, they did they? Oh, yeah, they did. Pared it with my carnation instant breakfast. Oh, my God. You're going to love it in it. instant shout out carnation listen here's it I remember when they just came in a six pack it was three packets of two I would finish it in a day yeah get out of it then they

would make an eight pack oh yeah sterling I'd finish it in a day yeah then they made a 12 somebody somebody at pop tarts was like people are going through these six packs too quick guys they made it well it did guys something's happening in St. Louis they made a 12 pack and you went through it in a day I'd kill it in a day we were burning calories. We weren't burning calories, but less the calories, there is zero nutritional content. That's what I think about.

I'm like, there's energy until there's not. That's right. That's when you sleep. And learn anything when that was how we were fueling our bodies. I used to take a full-size ice chest to school with food in it. Full size. Those igloos with the plop top, full size, five, six sandwiches. I'd start eating period one and just eat all day long.

Not only Pop-Tarts, I would come home from exercising. Like, have a great day of exercise. Run six, seven miles. Yeah. And make a picture of Kool-Aid. To hydrate yourself in? Let me top this shit off. That's called Electrolites.

With a bucket of sugar and colored water. Yeah. And we'll just be happy as, okay. Don't tell me Gatorade's not just sugar water, too. Gatorade is Kool-A. Yeah. I'm convinced. 100%.

It's a deep-down body thirst. Anyway. This episode brought to you by multi-billion dollar. Nobody is going to sign up. He's like, these guys shit on everything. We're just trying to bring a little health to the world. Anyways, childhood, the kids, the points, the 1900s were fucking awesome. You missed it.

It was cool, though, wasn't it? So in that storyline, they go to look at a house, right? That's the next thing that happens. And we hear Jack's voice as Rebecca's like walking through the house. and she's sort of having a silent conversation. Not so silent. She's kind of like... She's speaking out loud.

She's talking to herself. And again... We're talking to him out loud. Randall is sort of clocking it, right? And then they have this conversation about, well, we got to get a house and do something because, well, we know Randall's going to be gone. Kate's going to go to Berkeley, perhaps.

Kate's going to go to Berkeley. And you don't say anything about Kevin. Kav's like, and my ass is going to be sitting here doing not a damn thing, right? Nobody says that, but he's sort of feeling bad and understand. And he's a little off. He is a little off. He's more than a little off because he's an ebriety.

Yeah. Right? He's drunk. And we'll make reference to that. No. The cast is off. The cast is off. The cast is off.

We see Rebecca have a couple more conversations with herself looking at the garden and everything and that she mentioned something about growing something. When have you eaten pesto? Yeah. When have you eaten pesto, right? And this whole time, like Randall's like, what's going on with you, right? So eventually they have a conversation.

And if I missed anything in this, you guys let me know. Kate basically admits that she never sent the tape into Berkeley. She never sent the tape to Berkeley. Right? Because, I mean, Randall's like, oh, you're going to be gone two in the second since she's like, I don't, I don't know. I never even sent to him. Yeah, she's staying home with Kevin. And it's like, oh, like, brother is like, what's going?

Like, he feels sad. Like you can see him feeling sad because it's like, I'm about to go do this great thing. and it seems like everybody else is kind of just an arrested development, right? Like, it stopped moving. So eventually there's a confrontation out in the garden where he says to you, like, where are you right now? Right? Like, you said that you were going to take care of this family and everything was going to move

forward, but you're not. Like, things are falling apart right now, and you said that they weren't going to fall apart. And I'm a little frustrated. Kate is eating, right? Kev is drunk all the time. And you're not even, like, playing attention. to any of this stuff. You don't know.

And she just sort of takes it on the chip. You know? Then they have a conversation a little bit later. And she, he apologizes. He says, like, I'm sorry for that. And she's like, bro, you're right. And let me tell you something. Some days, it's just the struggle to get out of this motherfucking bed.

There was an admission in that scene that I had forgotten about was that Jack had taken her. To look at a house a couple of months before the house burned. Before the house burned. town. Right. Which was just a little turn of the Dan Fogelman screw, like just a little, just a little insult to injury. Yeah. They could have been in a whole new house anyways. Yeah. And she says, even when you see the flashback, she says like, I love our house. Like it may not be perfect or whatever, but it's ours. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And again, that's that's the turn of the

screw, just being like, and they lost it, you know? Um, so then is there anything else in that conversation between Randall and Rebecca that I need to make note of? I don't think so. Okay. Because then quickly we see at the end of the episode, Randall's on the phone.

He's calling up the admissions office or whatever at Howard University. He says thank you so much for the acceptance. But unfortunately, I'm going to have to stay closer to home. So thanks for that, right? And what I wanted to sort of talk about, especially because you're here. And Yvette is one of the first.

people that Randall calls and she shares her enthusiasm and talks about making fried okra which is a cultural thing but personally I do not like fried okra I feel I find it's kind of slimy even when you fry it do you enjoy fried okra no it's one of my mom's favorite things we used to go to churches I remember I remember and that was always one of the things that you wanted to get you guys I've had, I've had, I've had, Florida. You enjoy it? I've enjoyed it once. I've enjoyed it once. Okay.

In deep middle of nowhere, Texas, this woman made fried okra salad. Oh. Okay. Which was little pieces of fried okra. Yeah. Bacon pieces. Oh, now you're raw white onion. Oh.

Interesting. Diced up. Diced up. I know. I know. White vinegar and honey. Oh, so a little sweet. to go with it. And again, I watched her make it and I was like, I don't know. And then sure

enough, I ate half the bowl, yeah. Okay. Oh, okay. But yeah, Bagoa, it's hard to, hard to pull off. Okay, it is hard to pull off. It can get slimy. But he shares that with, with you and then, does he come over to the house while you guys are, does he come, does Randall come to the house? No, he doesn't. Everything is on the phone. You just see it on the phone. You just see it. But there was going to be a party. There was going to be a party. We were just talking about this is us and their, and their ability at excellent phone calls. Yeah. We do do great phone calls on TV. We do great phone calls.

But I'm curious, like, because one of the things, and it'll tie into the present-day storyline for Randall as well, and maybe I should talk about it after I talk about the... That's pretty much all the flashback. That's all the flashback. So I'll come back to in a second because there's something specific here I want you to weigh into. Let's go to present-day Randall.

Sure. And first day, first week of school or so, he's excited to take the girls out for Froyo. He's typical over-the-top, Randall, just goofy and silly. Yeah, over-the-top Randall. Over-the-top. Yeah. Definitely.

Not Sterling. Typical over-the-top Randall. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You want to chime in? No. Wait, so, okay, this is a good one.

This is a good one. Because people will ask me this question, and I think I have blinders to a certain extent. How much of Randall is Sterling, in your opinion? Oh, wow. We've come to this episode. Let's go. Let's go. Give it to me.

Percentage. Because I'll accept your perspective because you see me all the time. But she never watched the show. That's the whole. Right. So you have no reference. So it was it? Was it this was?

The name is, is it this is? Who is? Anyway. Who is it? Yes. You are, I would say you're about, I think it's 77%. Oh. Seventy seven.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, what part of me is not him, would you say? Fun-loving. The nice part, no. I'm laughing because, okay, don't take this the wrong way. I won't take it the wrong way. But the part of Randall that, like, locks in to things that are, like,

that he doesn't necessarily want to do, but he does for the greater good of the people around him. Yeah. That's not bronze. It's very admirable. No, no, no, no. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to we don't always agree.

Yeah. We're talking with... But I actually do agree. Yeah. Dibber doesn't need to be changed. It's fine. And I know he loves me and he loves... Whoa.

Okay, you know when the... You know when that diaper can wait a tizi bit. Yeah. Or you can change it now just for the... Like prematurely. Yeah. He's not going to prematurely change a diaper.

I'm getting the full value. See? One poop, there's room for another. I'm getting full. Well, not poop. Not full poop. No, come on. Come on.

Come on. That's a bridge too far. But you can get a lot of pee in it. Yeah, yeah. It can be a little heavier. See, you know, I get that. That child needs to be walking different. I need to see a droop.

Or you know when it gets real smooth because it's so heavy. It's so distended. It's like a nice, cold, smooth diaper. I like value. It's a lot of land. feels out there, Jack, trying to get the battery. Sterling is looking for a 16-inch softball. And yet, when I tried to do

the, like, the, what do you call it, the cloth diapers, you were like not, he was not in. That's admirable. How did you do that? We did it with the first child for a bit. She tried to hire, like, a diaper service or whatnot. And I was just like, man,

this is just raw doo-do. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to get rid of it. We never got the hang of it. We never got the knack for it's not I think you have you have the genie wait there's a

but the genie's for diapers there's something else some of those cloth ended up in the gym it was a mess I don't even want to talk I think there's a level of of you have to have like

double sick you know you just have to have a lot of things where you can't be washing your diapers and your dishes and you have to have a doo-to-s sing and that's just we didn't have a doo-to-sync so one time I was out

side because we had like a hose right out oh it was I was like that's what those garage sinks are for that's right 77% I don't even that may be that may be fairly accurate the energy is very similar yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm very effortless I'm not gonna not gonna argue that so anyway he's being over the top randall slash sterling throw yo throw your ice cream throw your ice cream I'm lactose intolerant so So I'll have to go with the froyo, but ice cream. Come on. Ice cream or gelato.

Gelato. There's, in Australia, we just got back from Australia not too long. There's like gelotteries everywhere. I ate a lot. Yeah. It's delicious. Yeah. I feel like even just sometimes outside of the country, like the ingredients are a little bit pure.

And it doesn't mess with your tummy this anyway. In the Midwest, they got frozen custard. They do. Yeah. Now that's, there's a Ted Drews. Come on. Tarlings. You have jarlings?

I don't have jarlings. That's in Illinois. I don't think so. Okay. But it's good. Or you know what? The soft serve from McDonald's used to be the best thing ever. Like, I loved.

They switched to a different mix. You guys, do you think I don't follow this? Lynn, I don't follow this in and out. I'm also looking at you. You used to have real ice cream shakes. Now you got some powdered mix. Get out of here. No more advertisers.

Look, so they, is that advertising? I'm coming for you. His two daughters, his two have something else to do. Somebody's got to do a Taylor Swift thing. Somebody's got to do. something else. But Deja's free, right? And he's trying to get a little figure out what's going on with there. Like every time I ask you what's going on with school, you say it's just fine. And she's like, honestly, Randall, it's a lot of white people, bro. And he's like, there's white people at this

cool. And she's like, ha, ha, ha. Well delivered. It was good. She misses her drill team. And so Randall goes back. He and Beth are hanging out. Beth has got some sort of proposal that she's got to do for her job. And it's still at this point in time, we don't know what Beth do. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I got this proposal that I got to finish with this. Yeah, we're like, Red, what do you do, girl? But she's a CIA agent. Exactly.

Undercover. She's like on the Americans, like living with Randall. But so Randall says, like, I'm going to go visit the property. There's this rec center, and I know this woman who's got a young lady that I think Deja would get along with. So I'm going to make that happen, right? So he goes to the rec center. We meet this woman, Chi-Chi. Which is a tie, and we didn't talk about it in the flashback, but this is an old friend of Williams.

This is an old friend of Williams. Because I think we meet Chi-Chi first, or do we meet? Yeah, which is the baby. Yeah. And then the flashback to William, shout out to our man, Ron Cephas Jones. Oh, I love seeing his sweet face. Seeing him, and we see this Nigerian woman coming off a bus with her baby. And he's like, can I help you out?

And she's like, I got it. Don't worry about it. She dropped something. And she's very independent. Like, no, just leave me alone, right? He looked really good in these episodes. Can I say that? I was thinking the same thing.

Was this post his procedures? Yes. Yeah. There was health. There was health. Vitality back in his eyes. Yeah. And it was sort of cool to see, like, because he's five years sober in that timeline or whatnot.

It's like, oh, yeah, he got healthier. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So we meet Chi-Chi in the present, and Randall introduces Dacia to this girl who was also one of the young ladies who auditioned for Dajia. Right? That's right. It's very, very, very cool. Very sweet young girl.

And she goes with the drill team. And you can tell Deja feels at home, right? She feels comfortable. Randall sits next to Chi-Chi, and he's like, why is there a mattress up next to the thing? Because the hole in the wall. Cover the hole in the wall. Why is there a hole in the wall? Because of the busted wall.

Because of the busted wall. Randall, I don't know why are you asking all these questions? Right. He's like, well, maybe I should go talk to somebody about it. She's like, if you want to, you can. And he's like, well, maybe I will. She's like, okay. He's like, maybe I'll do it right now.

She's like, okay. And he's like, I'm going to get up and go do it. Right? he goes to visit the councilman, finds Councilman Brown. And this is where Sterling and Randall diverge. Very, very much so. He would never ask about a mattress on a wall. Okay, I'm just checking.

And if you did, you'd be like, oh, that makes sense. I don't know how this whole guest co-host thing is working out. The bus is here, and I'm like, you know. This is the first time we meet Councilman Brown. Yes. The first time we meet Councilman Brown, who's played by, is it, what's Rob's last name? Somebody tell me his last name. Rob Morgan.

Great actor. Oh, I did two other TV shows with. Are you serious? Yeah, because he's also in the Nick. Is it? Okay. And he's also in Stranger Things. Oh, my gosh.

All right, Rob. Rob works. He's all over the place, right? So great actor, great dude, had a great time. And you see him and Randall sort of make this connection in the barbershop. He's very sort of polite and polished and he's like, yeah, I know that place. I had to almost agree to get it shut down or whatnot. But now I'm going to see what I can do.

I'm going to send a maintenance crew out there later today. Because Randall's just saying, like, there's kids in the care, and the place is just falling apart. And I wish they just had something better, right? He's like, I'll send a maintenance crew tonight. He's like, I'm going to hold you to that. I'm going to be there. And he's like, all right, now you do.

And the next thing you see is Randall hanging out late night because the sun has gone down, no maintenance crew. Right? He mentions that there's, like, streetlights that are out, et cetera, holes in it. So Randall says, I'm going to do something. I'm going to get the ladder. He goes outside. He puts in a light bulb. Again, this is not like Sterling. I'll say it before you even get to say it about me. Okay? Where did he even get a municipal light bulb? Yeah. I thought the same thing. I was like, wow, that's a proper street light. Yeah. You just go to Home Depot for that?

Randall, Randall don't play. There's a 60 watt. Randall don't play. Sterling, on the other hand, it will just be in darkness for a long, long time. I was like, there's other lights. Y'all can see. That's how I'll justify it like that. The light of it. The light of the Lord. Amen. That is actually what he was. Twinkle, twinkle little star.

Y'all acting like you need electricity. I can see perfectly fine. Orion, there's three dots right there. Look in your heart. Look in your heart. He puts it up. And then he comes like, and he's talking to Chi-Chi. And he's like, yo, I'm going to stay on him.

I put the light up. Like, I'm going to do something. And Chi-Chi's like, Randall, like, you know, I knew your father. Let's go to the flashback of that again, too, because William was making some food. He hears a baby crying across the hall, and he brings food over to the hall. So, like, you know, I thought you guys might be hungry.

And she's a little overwhelmed or whatnot, just a single mom taking care of things. She says that they moved to this country fairly recently. Her husband passed away before they moved. So she wound up coming as a single mother unintentionally. And William's like, can I get you something to eat? And she takes a bite of it. He's like, I didn't say it was good.

You know what I'm saying? But it is nourishment, so just take it for what it is. And she offers to let him hold the baby. And there's a couple of things that I want to take special note of. Because when COVID came, it was something that, like, I'm sure, and I'm sure it's probably a little bit different for you, Mandy, because you had lots of babies all the time. But seeing a real baby on screen does something.

Yeah. Versus when you have the. the doll, you know what I'm saying? And you have to cover its head and make sure it's where. But like, when the real baby is there, the frame, the DP is always like, hey, make sure you keep that baby. That's an expensive baby. That's an expensive baby.

And so folks know, just in case, there's always two babies on set and cast one baby wiles out all of a sudden. It's not having a bad day. It's not having a good day. He's like, I'm going to switch this baby out. Bring in the other baby. But that baby was so sweet. Oh.

And just looking up. And like she gave him to William. And she said, you're a natural but not. And you just see the magic happen of like, oh, here's a man who had to give up something. Yeah. You know what I mean? You just read that on his face.

Like, what could have been? And I will say this, without even that history, one of the, I think one of the most generous things that can happen to a man is when a woman offers to let you hold her baby. Because you know, that's her baby. Yeah. You don't just give you a baby to anybody. When somebody gives, especially a dude.

because they'll pass off to women relatively quickly. It's not even happening a lot anymore. It's not. It used to happen more. I think COVID sort of shifted things a little bit in terms of germ conscious and everything. But like when somebody gives you their baby and it means there's a level of trust that's there. And it's just like this is the most precious thing in the world. And both Brown and Chris love the babies. Because I can remember being on set before he was a father.

And I was watching this dude hold a baby. And I rolled up on him. I was like, you ready for one of these, ain't you? And he's like, I remember that day. Yeah, yeah, I'm not thinking about it. And then I was like, I was like, Sterling, how do you get one? Where can I get one? How do you do this?

How do you make one of these? And Sterling was like, I'll send you a video. We'll talk through. We'll talk through it. So I reference all of that to say that Chi Chi Wines up saying to Randall, like, you know, it was different with your, I see so much of you and your father. Yeah. Right. Or your father and you.

Yeah, yeah, your father and you. and he was one of us and was willing and wanting to do these things but you get here and all you see is problems and you don't even sort of like take the time to get to know the people, etc. So you're not

one of us, dude. We are not our problems and I remember her saying. Yeah, we're not our problems and it's really interesting because and I tie this back to Randall not making the decision to go to Howard and how most of his life is really defined by not only just

being an adoptee and like what I have to do in order to be loved and accepted, wanted, et cetera. But his blackness, right? And is he doing enough for his community? Is he doing too much for his community? And he winds up saying that when he gets to the premiere of the movie, you know? And he's just like, you know, it's always like not enough or too much. And I'm always just trying to figure out what the right calibration of that is, you know. And it makes me wonder, at the gathering last night,

we have friends who went to Morehouse, we have friends who go to Howard, we have friends who've gone to Spelman, whatever. And we're talking about these conversations about where to send our children eventually and options to think about, right? And I'm curious as to, like, I think he would have fundamentally been a different person

if he'd gone to Howard. Oh, yeah. And because there would have been this immersion in community where you'll figure out after the course of four years they're like where exactly you fit in right and not left like for another lifetime of wondering

of wondering of like how do folks see me how do I see myself in terms of my relationship to my community and everything. Because that's a question he carries with him throughout his entire life understandably

but I think so much is predicated on that decision and him making the choice to like, forego school there and stay at home with his mom. I mean, it is something that, yeah, we just, like, continue to explore as the show goes on. Totally. Totally. So that's the conclusion of that one, right? Yes.

Because we end at the premiere of that. Did you want to say anything about that? I'm curious for you, right? Because you are such a beautiful lover of your culture, of your heritage, etc. Do you ever wonder if you had chosen Spellman? what differences would have been? Yeah. I mean, obviously, I'm in a very different situation than Randall.

Like, yeah, you were raised by your own. I mean, obviously things would have been different. Sure, you know, I would have met different people. I would have had different friends. I would have had a different, you know, there would have just been a completely different. A more helpful husband. Maybe. You did this.

But then he wouldn't have been as fun. He probably would have been very helpful, but very blind. This was Sam suggestion. Maybe we should. have Brian on the show to be a couple. He would have been, yes. But no, I think. Oh, my gosh.

I love you. I love you. I love you guys. I started off. The whole thing said, I loved Ryan, too. Go ahead. It's on record. It was early. It was just too early.

It was just too early. It was just too early. I don't, you know, I think what Randall would have been able to experience is a diaspora of black people. And I think he would have understood how the, I mean, he probably wouldn't have been the only transracial adoptee at Howard, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wouldn't have been the only person to have grown up, you know, I'm sure there would have been biracial people who would have grown up solely around white. I mean, he would have seen. Because I thought that was what was so interesting when I got to Stanford was how so many of, not so many, but a lot of my black peers didn't, they thought they were the only people who have had that.

Whatever their experience was, they thought that was the only experience. Because they've been so accustomed to be one of the few or one of the only in most of the environments that they'd been in before. Right. Or even one of many. I mean, you said when you went to Stanford, you thought everybody was going to be like you. Well, this is a funny story. Because you said that too. And what did we mean by this? Like, tell them what you tell them. I think we meant it in sort of more economic terms. We did because I was saying I was like, you look, I thought everybody who was black at Stanford was going to be, like, had to have financial aid, was like a hustler. and sort of, like, achieved in that way to where Uncle Sam was going to help to foot the bill. And she's like, I thought everyone was going to be like me

and, like, their dad's just paid for it. And we're talking about people from the opposite side of the tracks, man, and she's like, and I wound up meeting you. I had a little bit more consciousness that people apply for financial aid, Sterling. Did you? I did.

I was not that. Did you apply for financial aid? I did. Not. I did. Did you get it? No, no, no, no. Did you get financial aid?

I got a lovely note from the financial aid. aid office saying thank you for this laugh. We needed it. That was hysterical. Your daddy made too much money. You are an only child, ma'am. Go have a seat. But thanks for, thanks for the laugh. My experience was so different because I had to roll up on Arlene Brown and be like, Mama, you have fill out this thing. It's called the FAFSA. And she's like, what do I say? I was just tell them how much money you make. She's like, I don't make no money. I was like, we'll just put that right there. My father filled out the FAFSA by hand and gave it to me. Really? And that was the first time I saw how much my

father made. And you were like, we ain't going to get nothing. And I was like, I don't know what you think financial aid means. But even I know that there's some aid that is involved and serve. And also, can we talk about this? I know. I was like, I've been living hand in mouth all these years. Like, he had me snowed. Like, he had me convinced that he went and dug ditches in a suit. Like, I mean, just, anyway. More, that was us, after this short break. All right, pet parents, let's talk about what's really going into your dog's bowl. If you've ever dealt with gut issues, picky eaters, or itchy skin,

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free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash TWU. Anyway, the point is, is that I wish that Randall could have seen that he wasn't the only one and that there were so many different ways to show up in the world as a black man, as a black person. Like, especially at the time that he would have gone, what was, were we, 90s at that point? He's four years younger than us. So, yeah.

Did you talk, I mean, this had to be quite the crossroads for the writing staff, because either path is the, the amount of storytelling and the possibility involved for that character. Like, was there ever any question that he would go or not? There was, no, no. I think he was always not going to go, because I think a lot of, what they based Randall and Beth off of is Sterling and Ryan. And like they'd heard like how Ryan and I met, you know, at a predominantly white

institution of higher learning or whatnot. And so they were like- And the financial aid office. Because Randall did get up. The Bursar is off. We didn't have a whole lot. We didn't have a whole lot. So Randall got help there.

But so yeah, I think they based a lot of it off of us. I got it. Actually. Right? Like, yeah. So wait, let's table that for now because I think one of the most interesting. interesting developments in this episode is Katobi. And one of the first things, I want to talk about you for it a little bit.

One of the first things that we see is Toby's knee bouncing, right? And it's sort of reminiscent of Randall had had a tremor at one point in time before he had his breakdown. He had a little tick. And like even your wife's noticing, like, will you stop doing that with your knee or whatnot? But what she doesn't know, that the audience knows, is that last week he took his medicine, threw it into the toilet, right? Yeah. Yeah, smart move. So talk a little bit about, like, this is new territory for us and Toby.

What's it like for you in the plane? Yeah, I mean, it was an interesting moment because it was going to be like the first big emotional shift. Yep. For the character. But I had very limited kind of story time to, to maneuver these shifts, right? Because there were all these big stories going on. And Toby is helping Kate with this process or, you know what I mean? There's a lot of evolution happening.

So ironically in season three, I think the story, the amount of words I had to deliver this shift was getting fewer. So it was an interesting kind of shift. And we have a moment as Kate and Toby have decided to go down the IVF route and they're going to Kevin's premiere. and they're going to be around all of his friends and family, and they've decided to keep IVF a secret until they, and they also decide because you have to keep your medication cold. They're going to hide it in the pudding packages. And you have to know Miguel Revis loves pudding.

You have to know this. Of course me. You've got to know Miguel loves pudding, especially the caramel cream. I was like, oh, really? And you're like, oh, wait, wait, boy, boy. And then you see, like, the needle and the vials fall down. And was that scripted or not, that I'm a heroin addict? I think it was scripted, but you can definitely see that I was having a real hard time delivering.

Do you remember that day? I do. I do. I couldn't turn to everybody in the room with a straight face going, I'm a her. It was like a, I caught the giggles. Taylor wasn't even watching, and he watched that part, and he just, like, burst out of it. I was like, that's silly. It was such, like, economical writing, I'm a heroin addict.

And you can see it on my face. Like, if you know me, like, that is the only take that was usable. Yeah. Because it was the only one I didn't laugh in. Because also, John and I do this, like, slide in. And we're, like, getting our, like, our supporting actor moment. And so the secret is out. And now the family's concern over Kate and Toby going down this IVF road becomes contentious.

You guys are in the car, headed to the premiere, and Rebecca's very vocal. And very vocal because she has a friend that went through it just last year, right? You want to talk a little bit about that? Eloise and Plaza. A really good writing. Really good writing. Really good writing. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I don't remember shooting this episode. Do you ever have, like, holes where this is one of them where I was watching it thinking, wow, I don't, I don't remember being on set with the heroine. Like, I don't remember any of this. All four of us could not keep a straight face. Mandy, I'm sure. I was hysterical. You loved it.

You couldn't. You loved it. You were like, this is the best day on set ever. It was amazing. Too bad you can't remember. But Rebecca sometimes, yeah, flips into like super. maternal mode. And it's like, this is a threshold we've never crossed before. But since we're here, like, I'm going to make it known how I feel. It's interesting to because compared to the

past when she's eating the Pop-Tarts and you sort of like clocked out or whatnot, you make a point of saying, like, listen, this egg harvesting thing is not easy. And especially with someone who is your size. And it's such an interesting thing because we all know it's a taboo to reference, but in terms of just health and caring about an individual, you just want that person to do everything they can to be safe and healthy. So it's not even born out of anything. There's no shame in it or anything else. It's like, I want you to be alive as long as possible.

Period. That's the only place it emanates from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed. Is that the first time we hear Rebecca say something that direct about Kate and her size? Is it always oblique? I feel like, yeah, it's always sort of danced around a little bit. Maybe in like previous seasons it's sort of been alluded to, but you're right.

I think my reaction watching it was one of like, oof, just because it's... It's about something adjacent to the weight. Exactly. But it was so transparent that you're like, wow, okay, I guess that's good that she's just putting it out on the table. I mean, it's good and it's also like, when is the right time to do it? You know what I'm saying? Like, in Rebecca's defense, it's like, I just found out this information. I have something to say about.

You might as well do it now. They're on the way to Kevin's apartment to get ready for the thing. And we roll in mid-conflict. A lot of tension. Kevin Pearson, get ready for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rebecca's on her phone, like, readings. Yeah.

It's kind of cringy. It's right here. Yeah. Kate hints that Kev's not going to have kids. Like Kate says in this conversation once they all join Kev is that. I'm the only person that has an opportunity to continue dad's legacy, to pass on a piece of dad. And Kev's like, what, you think?

She's like, come on, Kev. And he's like, and so we'll dovetail into that because Kev's sort of arc for this whole episode is like, what does it take to be taken seriously? Yeah. What does it take to be taken? And Toby snaps because he's flushed all of his medication down the toilet. Toby tells everybody, shut up!

Yes. Shut up. Shut the hell up. I do remember that part. I do remember that part. And I called you all asinine, which I thought, wow, Jesus. And then he calls everybody asinine, tells everyone to shut up. Yeah.

And then goes for a walk. Well, he says, like, it's none of your business, Rebecca. This is something between me and my wife, you know, we know the concerns and everything like that. So please, like, let's everybody stop talking about it. And he's like, I know it took it too far. I'm going to take a walk. Anyway, it's got to go. You know what I'm saying?

What a delight. As an actor, it's actually one of my favorite things to blow. shit up and then I'll see you later. Leave the scene. Leave the scene. I don't have to deal with the consequences of what I just caused. See you later. I'll be in my trailer. You do

remember that. I do remember Chris. You were like, shut up, shut up. And I was like, whoa. So shooting, like give me a little bit about the, talking about the real estate before, getting to step into that, in that scene. What recollections do we have specific? Yeah, I mean, it's a big emotional shift

now in front of people who are not Kate. Right. Right. So it's like there were small conversations in the past between Rebecca and Toby that were like, hey, I appreciate you, but I'm over here with this lady and this is a different tone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's

clearly like, and Kate points it out like, hey, that was weird. Remember when you yelled at my mom? Yeah. Well, before we even get to that part, there's a, There's a nice little conversation between Kate and Rebecca in which, I'm trying to remember the gist of it. Toby's late for the shot. And basically... She needs her medication, her hormone. She needs her hormone.

She needs to have it at a certain time on a regular basis. And Rebecca's like, well, I'll do it. You know? And Kate's like, really? They go into the bathroom. She pulls up, shows a little thigh or whatnot. She's like, just right here or whatnot. Sure.

Beck takes it, takes it, puts it in there. And she says, I think there's a... There's an apology. So it's like, I just want you to be happy. Like, when you become a mom, you'll see, like, all you want is what is best for your child. Yeah. Like, that's it. And I think we have a little bit of a flashback to you and young Kate on the couch as well.

What happens in that scene? Cookies. She tells her, she's like, I've gained 25 pounds. And she says it's been a hard time for all of us. And then you eat a cookie. And then you eat a cookie. And it's an interesting because it's like a show of solidarity. Yeah.

And it makes you quick. question everything as a parent. Everything. Because you're like, here I am. I think I'm doing something good. Right? And then you look back on hindsight and you're like, did I do something good?

And can it be both things at the same time? Do you know what I'm saying? Like there's no right or wrong necessarily to it. It's just like, I'm doing the best that I know in this moment to be with my child. Yep. Right? But there was still a little shame, though.

Like, I mean, so many people meet those kinds of moments shaming people. And because Rebecca had so little left inside of her, but she didn't even, it's kind of sad because it's like in that moment, there's something beautiful about the fact that she can't drudge up to shaming, which I feel like your relationship with your mother, your mother, no matter how devastated she, she could have found some shame somewhere. Exactly. Right? And then you think from the perspective of like, well, are you an agent?

You know, all the other conversations we've had, but then it's like at its core, to your point, Sterling, you're just meeting someone where they are, and you're meeting them where they are with whatever you have left to give. And so it is a little bit like, you know, wow, is that the moment? Where I gave her permission, where I, you know, yeah,

I'm sure you could look back and see it both ways. Sure, yeah. All right, we'll invite you back. When you're not talking about me, you're very insightful. Um, maybe some, maybe it could just be just you. Yeah. You know? I'll learn to change some light bulbs.

Is that okay for you guys? She gives, you wind up giving the shot and there's, there's, it's a beautiful moment because you're like, listen, I, it's like, in that moment, it's like, it's not maybe not the safest thing. It's maybe not a choice that I would make, but I'm respecting your life and I'm going to be of service. Yeah. I think both things are happening in the past and in the present.

Yeah. And that way, you know what I'm saying, just in a very different way. But don't you think it's interesting that Kate says something that is both very hurtful and also true? And you say something that is also very hurtful, but also very true. What is the thing that Kate says, references? Because Kate says, you're, I'm the only one who can pass on dad's genetic material. Yeah. Piece of dad.

A piece of dad. But it's not technically true. Kev can too. Yes, but you know what I mean. Where you're concerned. She's assuming that, like, he's not going to have kids. Right, right, right. But she completely discounts you and your children as having anything to do with your...

Passing on a piece of death. Biological. And we know what she meant. Sure. But we also know that she could have framed it in a very different way. And she says it when he's not around. And it's like, is that how you have always thought about Randall? And is that why Randall never really knows where he fits in?

Because you guys pick and choose when Randall is a part. and not a part, you know what I mean? That's interesting. And then at the same time, you say something that is also very hurtful. Rebecca says something that's very hurtful, but also very true. Yeah. There are statistics that show that IVF is very difficult in the best of scenario. And when someone is not at their optimal health, it just becomes, it can be very, very dangerous.

More of a challenge, yeah. So it's like you both say these very biologically true things. that are also very hurtful. And I just think it's interesting that, like, Kate says that and doesn't, is oblivious to how you would perceive it. Me or my brother. Yeah. Me or my brother, yeah.

I mean, she's not that oblivious to, you know. But, but again, it's that very like, come on. Come on, Kev's like, you're not going to have kids. What are you talking about? Yeah. Which is a perfect segue. Thank you, Ryan, Michelle. For Kev's storyline, right?

At the end of the last episode, we have a warning from Beth. this my cousin Zoe will break you right and we see them at the beginning he's laid in bed no no sorry he's at the premiere and you see Kate's having an emotional reaction to what's going on on screen

and you turn over and this is one of those moments for me Mandy where you see Jack is watching the premiere too and like how's Jack doing this thing and then Kev wakes up boom right so it's also just one more scene that I didn't know that Milo is in

with like you know Everybody else, right? And you see Kev sort of roll over. Zoe's listening, he's interpreting a French documentarian or something for her thing. And he's just trying to be Amherst and lovey and sort of just connected, you know. And he tells her he wants to invite her to the premiere. And she's like, ah, that might be a bit too much. And he's like, yeah.

And she says, I just want to keep it light and cash. And he's like, yeah, totally, I'm the most cash, dude. I wear cashmere. That's my thing. and you're like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, right? So he plays it off. He plays, ha, ha, ha, ha, he's like, you know. I was saying, I'm getting a fever.

He got a little jungle fever going on. And she's trying to keep it cash. So he says, I'll take it to the airport. She's got to go to Chicago the next day. He's like, I'll take you to the airport. And she's like, no, look, I'm just trying to keep it real mellow. He's like, okay. And then we see him waiting for everybody for the premiere.

Hold on, I want to make sure I get this one right. because i think this is an interesting storyline for him that i think pays off later in the show this idea of no one really taking him seriously and dad was the only one that's what i'm saying because kate responds to kate that way he responds to kate like what do you what do you mean i'm like you're the only person that can pass on that uh you know and she says are you serious yeah she says yeah and then like he winds up telling this story to randall at the premiere like there's a whole bunch of drama going on Kate's thinking about doing IVF or whatnot

and Randall's like, oh really? Really freshly off of his whole idea of like am I enough within my community to be of anything? And Kev's telling me, and Kate said like she's the only person who can pass on a piece of dad like what does she remember that? And you see Randall just stop. Yeah.

Just stop as Kev keeps going on. And he's telling him he's like, you know, I guess is he talking to Randall when he says this thing about He's talking to Kate. He says to Kate. He says he was always the hardest one on me. And I think it was because he was the one person in the world that took me seriously. Yeah.

Which is such a sad thought. Like, you know, the loss of Jack means something different to each one of us, to each one of, you know, the Pearson family. We all had a different relationship. Because I was Jack Pearson's boy. And now he's become the manny, right? And he knows that people haven't been taking him seriously. as an actor, right? He got into this relationship with his ex-wife

that he was very hopeful about, but then the idea of kids sort of freaked him out. So he's even questioning how serious he takes himself. Right. You know what I mean? Like, and will anybody else sort of see me in that way? And this movie is a chance for him to be taken. That's a real turning point.

Zoe is seeing him, I believe, on the red carpet, being asked questions about, like, how do you have anybody special with you here tonight? He's like, no, just here with my family and everything else. And she sends a text saying, like, I get home from the airport, like, pick me up at this time. And so there's a reason to smile there. Like, maybe she's sort of coming around.

But then that freeze on Randall. And Randall ultimately says, she's the only person that, you know, sees herself as being able to pass on a piece of dad. And, like, my heart broke a little bit because that's not what she meant. Yeah. She wasn't trying to throw shade. But that's really what he felt in it. So you got two brothers sort of questioning, like, well, what am I? chopped liver. And she's sort of like, y'all ain't chopped liver, but like, I'm going through something

myself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we all got some shit. Yeah. Such as life. Typical Pearson. Typical Pearson's. Should we do a fan segment? I think we should do a fan segment. Is there anything else in terms of the end of this episode? No. No. I think we touched everything else. We should also thank Ryan, Michelle. We'll keep her around for the fan segment. Yes, please. You have wonderful insight when you're not talking about me. And I appreciate it all a great. Dylan, actually, I love you, even though you treat me. Stop saying actually. Terribly.

It's always a surprise when you said it. Surprised to himself, all of us. No one's surprised. Actually, she's like, she's like, you're most of the goofy part of Randall, but the productive part, not so much. This has been, we don't always agree. You want to plug it? No.

I'm going to plug it. If you haven't listened to their podcast, it's called We Don't Always Agree, and it is a an incredible look into your marriage. It is. It was actually a lot of fun to... That's a really good... You're good at this. I listen to every episode.

I was fascinated by the whole thing. Thank you, man. We appreciate it. And it was very helpful. It was great to do together. And I think the biggest comment that I get is, like, how are you guys able to talk about that stuff? And we were saying this to each other the other day.

We were 19 years in, and there's certain conversations, probably three, four years in that we couldn't talk about without feeling like you were reliving it. But now we, it's almost like we have enough, we've gotten to the other side of so many things that you can recount it and be like, you remember when, with distance

and not feel like it's triggering something? What are you guys going to do to celebrate 20? Oh, that's a good, I don't think we thought of it. Just putting it out there. That's a really good question. I should do an episode of this podcast. But for us, like 20 is the same year that we turn 50. So we have all of that to do.

Or the same year that I turned to. Not you. No, yeah, I just want to be clear about that. You know what? Edit it out. Even though they know we met freshman year of college. They don't know how old that was. She did get into every school.

Thank you. Harvard. You don't do that without being a little special. Dookie blacks or whatever you name is. Dukey blacks? Come on, man. Edit that out. Edit that out.

That's better than that. Boogie Houser? Boogie Houser. Boogie Houser is better. Bougy Housy Houser is better. Keep the whole thing in for the bougie Houser. Keep it. Let's do a fan segment.

We'll be right back. Gang, here we are. You know what time it is. It is time for our fan segment. This time we're going to be talking about people's decisions surrounding college. So after watching Randallel, not to go to Howard so he could stay close to home. It got us thinking about those big decisions we make after high school.

We received a beautiful email from one of our listeners, and we're going to read that email and then give her a call after. Let's do that. Let's hear our story. This is such a cute segment. I love this guy. You should listen to the podcast. It's cool.

You would love this podcast. Like and subscribe. It starts right here. I was struck by Chris's comment following the chat about Williams' vision. referencing seeing a life that never was and that it was a positive glimpse at a future that never happened. I lost my mom at 17 in May of my senior year of high school. That experience not only changed me, but the trajectory of my life.

Prior to my mom getting sick, I had envisioned myself going to school at NYU, becoming either a journalist or author and living a busy, exciting life in NYC. Instead, my mom passed away from cancer, three weeks before my high school graduation. Being the youngest of five, I felt I should stay close to home and my dad, so I went to community college for business before switching to humanities and then transferring to a local college to get my BA in English. I eventually went into

education as a teaching assistant for emotionally disabled children before meeting my husband and going on a years-long fertility journey to have our children. To say this was not the version of my life I thought I'd be living is an understatement. Now, As our 15-year-old daughter starts to figure out her next moves after high school, I am brought back to my 1994 self. That young high schooler was excited to take on the city and the world, only to have the most important person in my life taken for me just as I was going to venture out of my small hometown and big Irish family. It still lives in the back of my mind, the life that could have been, the me that could have been. Some days I shake my head, knowing I am exactly who and where I am. I am supposed to be in this life. But there are moments where I catch a glimpse of the Noreen

who just released another best-selling book and is a world traveler on assignment writing exposés, and I smile through a tear or two. My imagined self might have been more carefree, but the me I actually am has walked through many storms and feels more powerful for it and has the love and support of a man and children I never could have imagined in 1994. The poem goes, I chose the road less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. Thanks for always talking about topics that speak to my soul. I enjoy every episode of the podcast, you guys, and this is us, means the world to me. Noreen, Toesley.

Oh, Noreen, we should give her a call. Yes. Let's give Noreen a call. Hello. Are we here? Hi, Noreen. How are you? Very good.

Very good. I also want to let you know, besides Mandy, Chris and myself, Sterling. My wife is joining us as a guest host, Ryan, Michelle Bethay. So I say hi to Noreen. Hi, Noreen. Nice to meet you. Hello there.

I'm glad you finally dated on to the podcast. Exactly, right? Right on. We've wanted you forever. Your letter was exceptionally beautiful. Let me say, first and foremost, condolences. I know it was a while ago, but what a difficult experience that must have been senior year of high school to lose the rock of your family. Absolutely.

forever changed as they say never to be the same forever changed but the way in which you sort of highlighted is that you're you being exactly where you're supposed to be like there is you know obviously a sense of loss but like if things didn't play out the way that they did you wouldn't be the individual that you are and it seems that the individual that you are is pretty impressive yeah thank you appreciate that you're very very welcome tell us about your books i mean this is this is why I was just doing a little Google. Tell us about your books that you just had your second book released. Oh, I wish.

In my mind, yes. In your mind. Did I miss read something? In her other life. In her other life, yes. I misread the letter. I blogged, but that's about that as far as I go with that. Well, we'll tell us about that then.

Yeah. I have a grief blog that I started after I lost. my triplets at 22 weeks in 2010. No rain. Yeah. Your show has been like a mirror to my life in so many ways. I can't even begin to tell you. So yeah, so I took writing back on because I wrote a little bit after my mom passed,

but then I kind of gave up on writing for quite a while. And then I got back into it with a grief blog. And then now I've also started a blog kind of talking about how I'm becoming the person I am now. through all of my journeys through my life. Do you have, I'm curious, because, I mean, in losing mom, in that miscarriage or whatnot, like, what are the coping strategies that you found most helpful for you in terms of just processing and moving and living with grief? Music plays a big part.

I've always been a person that can turn to music, no matter of happy, sad, whatever's going on in my life. I'm definitely a music person in my life. that helps cope. And I've also had a lot of people in my life that have had losses. So I kind of have like a kind of a group of us that kind of bond together through grief. So that's helped to not feel. Yeah, community is always the answer, right? Not feeling like you're an anomaly. I have a question about your connection to the show. Like were you able to start watching the show from the jump? Because we often talk about understandably, like the show is not for everyone at specific times. Like, it's totally understandable that it might be too much to take on and people

either can never watch it or come to it later after maybe they've processed something that's happening in their life that they maybe find it just too difficult to take on all of the emotional information that the show sort of touches upon. So was the show something that you found and found it to be helpful in your journey? The group, Greek group that I belong to online actually was talking about the trailer when it first came out and they were like we're just warning you

if it's something that you can handle we think you should but if it's not that kind of a thing and then my sister-in-law called me and she's like you have to watch this she's like I know it's going to be hard but you have to watch this trailer and as soon as I completely broke

and I love Dr. Kay to this day for that speech in that episode because that speaks to my entire life and yeah i loved it from the beginning every episode i had a box of tissues just in case and got through every every season every episode and loved it absolutely loved it so yes it was like holding up a mirror to my life in all the different characters and all the different experiences i could see myself i could see people in my family i could see other

loved ones it was just it was incredible and i thank you guys it's i love this podcast for revisiting and I love the show every episode, every minute. We appreciate it. We're so grateful, grateful that you're on this journey with us. I'm so humbled that even the show, what we were a part of, was helpful, even remotely helpful for you in the midst of your grief. And it actually helped my husband as well. I forced him into watching it with me.

He works nights. He's a police officer, so he wouldn't be here Tuesday nights. But the next day, he would come home. And I'd be like, can you watch it with me? You want to watch it? And it allowed us to speak about things and that we weren't able to stay to each other prior to that. And that's incredible.

And life-changing, actually. So thank you again for that. No, thank you. Noreen, thank you for sharing your soul with us. And your letter is gorgeous. And if you haven't, I want to read your second book, too. This is your book. That was my first.

That was my question. Let's transition from blogger. Two questions. If people wanted to check out your blog, where would they find it? It's on Webley.com. It's called Life After Death is the grief one. And the other one is Pieces of Me. Okay, great.

And if you were going to write a book, what would you write a book about? My children. Yeah. How old are you children? Absolutely. I have a 15-year-old. I have twin boys that are 11, and we lost several. along the way.

Wow. God bless you, Noreen. Wow. What are their names? Yeah. My daughter is Maggie. She's named after my mom. Okay.

And my sons are Joseph and Christian. Yeah. Joseph Christian and Macbush family. I may call me, can I call Maggie Peggy when I see her sometimes? Or do you just remember I stick with Maggie? Because I like Peggy as the nickname for my name. Oh, but strictly Maggie Rose after my mom. Oh, Maggie Rose.

Now that's a good name. That's right, Maggie Rose. God bless you, Noreen. Thank you for sharing with us again. We love you. And thank you for us. I appreciate you. I love you guys so much.

Right on, sister. Take care. Have a good day. You too. Bye. Bye, bye, bye. What a story. What a life.

You know. The vulnerability just to be able to share that. I was, I didn't know if she had children or not after she had talked about the it. It made me just fill up a little bit more. Yeah. That's it. I just, yeah.

Noreen. She ended up with three. She ended up with three. Look at that, man. All right, listen, that's the fan segment. Like, that's the kind of, guys, I just, listen. I know. We always get filled up probably more even than the fans.

But knowing that the show had that kind of impact for people to be able to share so much of themselves with us. And with each other. The ch and her husband, it elicited conversations. is so incredible to have a kind of impact, yeah. We were blessed to be a part of something like this that meant something to so many people. So I love you guys, and thank you for doing this part. Can I ask a question?

What's your question? You know, you guys, your show came at a time when it was like the shows that were so popular where the heroes weren't even hero, the anti-hero. You could barely root for them. It was like they were. were so, you watched to hate. You watched because you didn't like them and you wanted to see, you know, and you guys

were, not only did you guys go back in time, but it's almost like you went back in time and grabbed the pieces of the shows that we used to love where you could, you wanted to love each and every one of your characters. There wasn't, your characters are so profoundly human, but ultimately profoundly good, as opposed to what was that TV on TV at the time, which was like, no one's all good or all bad, but they're mostly bad. You know what I mean? What was that like for you guys?

That's an interesting question because where I would see me, I mean, I love the mad men's and the breaking bads and Sopranos and all these other shows very much. And I guess you are right to some extent because that's just not Dan. You know, I think that's not what is in his heart to put out into the world. He is a fundamentally good dude, and I think he wanted to see goodness. It seems like everything we grew up with that they did not think it was possible to make good people interesting. Right.

That it was in vogue anymore. And there's so much drama in all of our lives. Yeah. Like if you write this family down on paper, it seems completely outlandish. All of like the details on paper of this family. Sure. the addiction and the adoption and then you take a step back and it's like every family you've

ever met yeah has these same stories yeah yeah i mean i think it also like unfolded at a time where it's we we sort of started things started to feel incredibly divisive and the fact that we were a part of something that felt ultimately like unifying felt good like we were a part of something that was inherently hopeful and I think we definitely need that now but like we really needed it then too and I just remember like we all it felt good it felt good to put something out on the world that was like was universally sort of across the board like like put on a bit of a pedestal in that sense of like oh you can make entertainment that is for everybody but also like is elevated and yeah I think that like that's not talking down to the audience I think his sort of um

superpower, and that Fogelman specifically in that there's something that had a wide-ranging appeal for a very broad audience and still received sort of accolades from the industry as well. You know, it's usually sort of like either or or not, but they were able to sort of like bridge those things in a really lovely way. So thank you for saying. That's a good question. Would you do us the honor of looking in that camera and saying that was us? That Was Us That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions

Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith Da-da-da-da-dum That was us