That Was Us - Finding Purpose | "Unhinged" (403) with special guest Tim Jo

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 3: Unhinged. As Uncle Nicky faces the fallout of his actions, Kevin steps in to help and crosses paths with Cassidy. Meanwhile, Randall launches his open-door policy, Kate meets her neighbor Gregory, and Malik opens up to Deja about his daughter. On the pod, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling talk to a surprise guest after ringing them up on a whim AND Tim Jo, AKA Jae-Won, joins to chat about his time on the show! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/twu for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. - BAU, Artist at War opens only in theaters, for a limited run beginning September 26th. Go to https://www.baumovie.com/ to watch the trailer, read about Josef’s real-life journey, and find showtimes near you. You can also sign your organization up for group screenings. - To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to https://NakedWines.com/TWU and use code TWU for both the code AND PASSWORD. - Brought to you by Bombas, One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item DonatedHead over to https://bombas.com/ and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:11:48 Interview 01:30:52 Outro ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz, Rob Holysz & Jeph Porter Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of that was us. We're diving in the season for episode three, Unhinged. Nikki struggles to stay on track after a setback, and Kevin continues to seek purpose in his life. Meanwhile, Randall faces new challenges as city councilman and Kate and Toby adjust the life in their new home. What's going on, gang? Hey, hey, hey, hey.

How we doing? Oh, 403. Here we are. We're just going to keep it moving. Dive in right into season four. Absolutely. Unhinged. Mandy just was commenting that, like,

that's like a different title name for us. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's in reference to something directly. Yes. And we'll discuss it once we get to the episode. But what storyline shall we begin with?

Should we start with Nikki because he's kind of how the episode opens. Yeah. Go for it, man. He is drinking. He is not in a good way. No. He sees that Kevin has left a note with a bunch of meetings that are happening at the VA. Yeah. You see him sort of decide to take the initiative.

He goes down to the VA. He starts opening up to his counselor, therapist in sort of these individual sessions. Yeah. And he starts to open up. And he's like, yeah, I, I hate. this room. That's sort of his way of, I guess, like, cutting the ice, right? Bring the ice? What else happens?

It's a montage of sorts. And we see... He's not drinking right away, right? Like, it starts out, he's freshly sober, right? And then he goes, and then he starts drinking again after his... He finds a therapist that he likes. Yeah. Right?

I don't know. I wrote he's drinking and not... I'm wondering if he's drinking at the beginning. He starts, he starts his road to... therapy. He connects with a therapist, and then the therapist says, I'm leaving. And that's what forces him to drink again. That's right. But he is drinking at the beginning of this episode. Correct. Okay. Going, seeing that Kevin is in his corner, seeing the fact that Kevin has put up this VA schedule, like on his fridge or like pinned to his wall or whatever. Yep. He's giving therapy a try.

You know what? I'm going to take the initiative to like help myself. I thought it was really interesting because it is probably the most difficult part of therapy is starting. Yeah. Right. And finding a therapist that you connect with. Sure. It's where most people, they go to one therapist that don't connect. And they think in general, therapy's not for that. Therapy doesn't work. Yeah. Quick public service announcement. Not all therapists are created equal. Sure. Some I've heard tell are not good therapists. Others are just not for you. Right. And so you need to to keep trying. if you are going down that path to find the therapist that works for you.

Good for you. So as we, as we, do you want to stick with that story? Yeah, he feels lighter. He's cleaning up his trailer. Yeah. And then, yes, as you said, when his counselor reveals to him

that she's getting transferred, he feels abandoned. Which is the spiral that sends him putting a chair. Throwing a chair through the door. Throwing a chair through a window at the VA. Yeah. Yeah.

He hears that she's being transferred. He goes home, he starts drinking, and then he comes back to the VA. Yeah. and just throws that chair through the window. And that's when we make the connection of like, oh, that's why he was there. Yeah.

That's why he threw the chair. Because there was still that giant question mark of like, what was his problem? Why was he there? Why did he throw this chair through this support group meeting at the A? And what I got from me, you guys helped me out. Like, it took so much to open up. Of course.

Like it took so much in order to get to a place where I felt comfortable with somebody. And now that person is just gone. Yeah. The betrayal. Yeah. On a technical, logistical. Did they shoot it the same day or did they have to come back and shoot it again? Is that what you're about to say?

Oh, no. I was going to say on the day that you're an actor and you get to throw a chair through a window. That's a good day. That's a good day. You're like, this is what I thought about. This is. Yeah. They don't teach you how to do it.

First of all, there is no throwing a chair through a window day. Right. And there is no good time in real life where you get to throw a chair through a window. And now today's the day you get to throw a chair through a window. a window. Any experience like that? I've actually gotten to throw a chair through a window. You have? Yes. And it was one of the best days. I bet it was. I bet it was. You know what? I like the chair through the window because it feels like you get one take and there's no like sort of. They probably had a second window. Maybe. Maybe they had a second one just in case it didn't go right. Right.

I think the the tough ones for me are the like, I'm supposed to destroy my room. But then I know they're going to do it three or four times. And I feel like for continuity, Like for set deck, I'm like, all right, I'm going to knock this over. Then I'm going to go here. You know what I'm going to say? I have to figure out what I'm a knock over. Do you have a day on set where you got to do something? You're like, oh my God, I get to hit someone in the face with a pie or I get to like that thing.

I get to. I'm sure I'm not remembering like a really good version of that. But I would say all of this stuff with the Super Bowl episode in the house being on fire. Like all the stunt sort of work of like jumping off of a roof. sure i don't know yeah you don't think about that when you're like i would love to be an actor right you don't think about that being like a part of the equation right sure military weapons training is another thing where you're like never thought i'd get to learn how to shoot an AK-47 one hand it is fun it is fun it is fun i question why it is so much fun

for me but i cannot deny that it is uh enjoyable i mean it's it's it's a unique A unique life experience, too. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So then, so how does, how does, because now we're going to dovetel obviously Kevin, Nicky.

So how exactly do, we know now that he asked for bail for Kev. He gave Kev name as next to kin or whatnot. So Kev comes off. And last episode ended with us thinking Kevin was going to Chicago when in fact, he was faking us out. And he was going to Royal Pennsylvania to his uncle. trailer to go be with Nikki to go be with Nikki yeah yeah so Kevin is vouching for Nikki right right basically told that this Nikki's sentence his potential jail sentence could

be commuted altogether if he shows remorse and commitment to like doing the program going to therapy yes right and and so that's what he's going to he's he's going to like set out to you know help Nikki sort of accomplish that so they recommend that he doesn't have to serve any jail time. Correct, correct, correct. Right. And as he is, he's kind of guiding, is this the point in the storyline where he's guiding him through whatever he needs to do to stay on track, that he's in the waiting room,

hanging out with this, he's playing with this little nine-year-old boy. And we meet, or Kevin meets. Kevin meets Cassidy's son. Cassidy's son and Cassidy. And Cassidy for the first time. Are we at that stage in the storyline? Yeah, we are. Is that whole part where Nikki goes across the street to, what was it called,

2Ds or something, it goes to a bar to drink? Yeah. Is that before? No, that's after this. That's after this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Kevin's just waiting for Nikki while he's in an appointment.

That's right. He's immediately after this. Exactly. Exactly. And so like a couple of things that I love to track is Kevin's ease and comfort with young people. You know what I'm saying? Like it's sort of as we know that he will eventually become a father in the future or whatnot. It's just lovely to see these little moments.

And the kid is so precocious and cool. And they hit it off like instantaneously. And it seems like this is something that's been happening over time as he goes to me. Possibly because Cassidy makes mention of like, oh, he told me he had a friend. He didn't tell me it was a 40-year-old man. And he's like, yeah, not 40. First of all, ma'am. Pump your brakes, please.

How dare you? I am 39. And she's like still But he's actually not. Right? So she takes her son. Nikki takes off before he gets a chance to see anything. Goes right across the street to this bar.

He just starts drinking. Right. And I was like, hey man, look, I just had to go check in with your counselor. Yeah. Counselor. He was like, I'm going to recommend that he can continue getting services here, which is going to be part of the agreement for getting him off of jail time, out of jail time. Is this the line about, but like you can only help people who want to be helped?

Yeah. That's true. But we also get, is this where we get the monologue from about I'm your brother's son? That's at the bar. That's, okay. That's at the bar. That's right. That's coming right now.

Yeah. So he goes across. First of all, let me ask a question, guys. Is that typical? Is there the bar right across the street from the. The VA? Yeah. I mean, bars are everywhere.

Bars are everywhere. Yeah. But yeah, I mean. Tough, tough location. Yeah. Tough location. Yeah. He goes across the street and he just starts drinking. It's like, bro, do you care about anything? Yeah. Like I'm sitting there. I came across, you asked for money to get you out of bail. I'm talking to the dude. The repercussions are possible $250,000 fine or 10 years. And you're sitting here in the bar and just drinking like, I'm getting a little frustrated. I was trying to remember another time in the series where it's like, the first time we really see Kevin get mad. Yeah, righteously so. Yeah.

With another person. Yeah. You know, there are, there are arguments to come that are debatable, like as to who's who's in the right and the wrong. But it's like the first time you see Kevin like, it stood out to me because I was like, oh, wow, I haven't seen him like this before. And he says, I need a meeting. Yeah. He said, you're coming with me. I'm not leaving you here.

And he's like, so just. He said, get up, right? Yeah. He's like, get up. I'm tired of this. We're going to a meeting. They go to a meeting and lo and behold, the lady with the precocious son is there. Cassidy is right there.

Of all the meetings. Of all the meetings and all the places. And she's like, you're going to sit next to me? Yeah. He's like, no, no, I'm just sitting over there. Right? It reminds me, and we didn't make mention of this. I can't remember if this is, I think it's 401.

It reminds me of young Kevin flirting with the nurse. Do you guys remember this? They go to see mom who had the car accident, right? And it's the three, the young Pearson three and Jack. And anytime he tries to go see his wife, like, my man is focused on the nurse. He's like, how you doing? Yeah, yeah. He's like, I don't know what that's about.

You know what I'm saying? Like he has this inability to not flirt or ability. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So anyway, next thing we see. is, well, Nikki's not joined the group. He's sort of like... Standing in the back. It's not my meeting. I'm here because I have to be, but this is your

meeting. Yeah. And Kev is sort of going into where he is in life. Yeah, he's sharing. Yeah. What does he share? Help me out. Oh, he's talking about all his, I gave up this movie. He's talking about, again, he's still kind of

he's sharing his experience. Yes. In any meaning, you're supposed to share your experience. That's right. your strength and your hope. Yeah. And he is talking about all these things that for him, as a beautiful, white, famous man are problems for him. Yes, he's struggling with.

Yeah. And all of a sudden, across the circle, Cassidy starts to laugh at him. Bust out right in his face. And she's like, it's just so stupid. which immediately attracts Nicky who joins in on the laughter and the moderator of the meeting

the leader of the meeting is like you two are going to have to calm down this is because this is really it's unacceptable behavior and Kevin starts laughing and it's like okay all right. They were genuinely belly laughing

I watched that and I was like what were they laughing at? Yeah. Because there's like There's like an easy wish of fake laugh, right? But Sterling, Chris, those were like, there were like genuine deep, I'm crying, laughs from all of them. You know that that's how it started. It started, it started the way you just started it from Jennifer.

Yeah. And then he definitely laughed at her. And then she laughed at how ridiculous the first laugh was. I guess I was like... Remember when Milo used to do that to us early on? Totally. We'd be taking photos and he'll... And he would make those sounds.

And the sounds were so ridiculous that we'd get genuine reactions from all of us. I do think that there's, you know, they say this about yawns and it be a sympathetic response. I think the same thing is true with laughter. 100%. You know what I'm saying? Like it's why you, in the comedy club or whatnot, one person, starts, then there's a trickle effect. It's like you don't want to, you don't, you want to join in.

It's an indication of safety. I just was, as I was watching it, I'm like, oh, they're really, really. Something was very funny. Yeah. I was like, I just, I'm, one day we'll have Jen Morrison here. Yeah. Or we'll have Justin back and we'll have to ask them like, call her right now. I can call her.

Call her right now and say, we're going to have you on to talk. Let's call her. Really? Yeah, call her. No, no. How did I text her? I'm going to text her. Mandi's like, is this appropriate?

No, people do this on podcasts all the time. People love it. It's edgy. It's edgy and fresh. And you hold the phone up and just be like, we're going to have you on for an interview, but we want to know and we'll cut this out if you don't want to. But what were you guys laughing about?

Call and put it on speaker. Here we go. Oh my God. Put the speaker right up to the microphone. The Michael phone. The Michael phone. Yeah. She's going to do that mic is short for Michael.

Mandy? She's probably working. You're not going to happen. Yeah, of course. She's always working. But in the, in the. in the event that she does. Have her call by...

Seeing your picture just gave me so much joy. Jen Morrison, how are you? I'm so good. How are you? I'm good. Okay. You're on speaker phone.

You're on speaker phone. I'm doing the podcast with Sully and Sterling. Hi, Jen. Hi, guys. Hi. I was like, I'm not calling her. I'm going to text her. I forced her to call because we're going to have you on as a guest because we have lots to talk to you

about, but we have a very specific. question for you about the episode we're talking about right now. Which you may not remember. So there is a scene in 403. So right after you joined the show, you are in a, like a support group meeting with Justin and Griffin. And you guys are, you're laughing at him. And you guys, you break into such a genuine laugh.

Like you and Griffin and then Justin where I was like, we're that. Were they laughing at each other? Was there a joke told, like, how did you guys accomplish that laughter? That's just a good question. I feel like someone did, I bet Griffin said something ridiculous. Okay. Interesting. I do remember that, like, we got to a point where we were laughing so hard we couldn't breathe

and, like, couldn't stop laughing. So it was a real laugh. Oh, it was, very real. But I, and I worried, I worried about that scene. Because on the page, I was like, oh, man, it is so hard. If you're not wired to laugh in an awkward moment, it is so hard to figure out how to orchestrate that. Yeah.

So I was definitely concerned. But then, you know, I mean, you guys know Griffin. Yes. He's hilarious. Yeah. And he always knows the right thing to say or the wrong thing to say. Yes. The wrong thing to say at the right time.

Yeah. And Justin is equally hilarious at times. So it could have been him too. But it was too long ago to remember exactly what it was. but I do remember it is pure joy caught on camera one time was that time which thank God because we needed it

and one time it was like we were up against a curfew we were in a car I think it was my last episode it was like not my last episode my last episode for that season where I like had to say goodbye I got out of the car and said goodbye and I was sitting in the middle back seat

which was so hilarious to have an adult sitting in the middle on the home And it was just one of those things were like we'd just all been there for too many hours and again Griffin was just saying ridiculous things that were making me laugh and I knew we were up against the time clock

and I just couldn't I couldn't get it together I was like laughing so hard as crying so anyway those were the two times that happened one time it worked one time it didn't yeah that's the tricky thing with laughter yeah Jen you are the best I adore you I've got to come in

and do the podcast with us Please. But thank you for answering our call, too. Of course, any time. I have so much fun, you guys. Appreciate you, Jen. We'll see you soon. I'll call you soon, Jen.

Okay, all right. Bye. Edward, Sally called it. She's the best. She's the best. Jen Morrison appreciation. She picked up halfway through the first ring, by the way. You know what I'm saying?

She said, I saw your face and I got so excited. See Mandy Moore? That phone didn't even ring. She's one of my favorite people. She's great. She's so deeply wise, so talented, such a great director. Like, yeah, she's, she's the best. She's dope.

So, so Griffin or Justin wound up doing, which tracks? I'm going to say Griffin. And then, yeah, everybody laughed. He's so, God, I mean, we got to get him in person as well. Like, for sure. The Zoom was fantastic, but, like, we need that magic. We need to stay on his travel schedule. Yeah. But that essentially is the end of that storyline.

Bonding the three of them, you clear. clearly see that they are all unhinged in the same way. And that's kind of the end of that storyline. More that was us after this short break. Fall always makes me want to hit reset on my wardrobe. Cooler days, fresh darts, and pieces that feel as good as they look. That's exactly what Quince is for, making it easy to look polished and stay comfortable and save big without giving up on quality. Totally. Quince is basically the shortcut to fall staples,

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This September, lease a 2026 XC90 plug-in hybrid from $599 biweekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. So do we want to get into Randall's storyline now for this? Okay. So the episode's called Unhinged. Yeah.

Because we kind of kick off Randall's storyline with this news headline. Yeah. That he's decided to take the doors off of his office, like every Monday or so. As a signal to the community. Open door policy. Open door policy. Right. but he has been referred to as the unhinged city councilman.

Exactly. Him and J-1 coming back from a run. It seems like they're really getting along. They're having a, they have a great relationship between each other. And we do get a chance to talk to Tim Joe later. Yes. Who's a great, great dude. So I'm really excited by this.

We had so much fun together. We come running in after about like 10 miles or so. I think he's 8 miles, right? No, we lost them around 8 miles. Got it, got it. I ran 10 mile? That's not uncommon. It wasn't.

I'm almost 50 now. It's a little bit more. That's how much I've run in my lifetime. Maybe, yeah, maybe. For running sick. For running sick. Yeah, I think probably. Manning more, you'll walk 10 miles on a mountain, won't you?

Yes, walking and running are very different. Uphill, homie. Uphill, you probably burn as many calories if not more sometimes. Because I've been on the treadmill. Peloton. Once a sponsor, come back to us. Come back to us all the time. What's a sponsor?

Come back to us. But you do burn as many calories. Okay. You really, really can't. So I'm just saying that. Impressive. I wanted to say something real quick. Yeah.

This is in response to, this is a complete and total non-second, but I'm going to do it as fast as possible. Jack showed his booty. Um, Sterling, uh, Randall showed his booty. Uh, Jack Jr. Showed his booty or whatnot. Kev, Kev gets shirtless a lot or what have you, but we don't. don't ever get, like, full bloodshot of cabbage. No, we get a little lower back.

Okay. In this episode, and we'll get to it and whatnot, we get a little, we get a little Toby action and whatnot. Yep. The women, whether it's you or Kate Cho, Kate Cho's backside in the pilot. Yeah. Right? Whole backside and the pilot. Mandy Moore, did they ever approach you being like, hey, are you going to show us a little something?

Like, I'm curious, because I remember there was a shower scene. Yeah. I remember talking to you about this. Like, oh, I'll give you the side of my boob all day. Yeah, I mean, it was also like something that he didn't have to really worry about because we were on network television. So I knew like it was never going to go too far. But you had like a booty thing. Like that you were like, you don't need to be, you don't need to be up on my booty.

I don't think it was ever called into quite. I don't think I was ever asked. It was ever asked. No. Okay. Is that insulting? Now that I think about it. Wait a minute.

Yeah. Wait a goddamn. minute. Hot take. Who didn't want to see my butt? But it also does seem like there's been a shift in the television landscape for better for worse, whatever it was, because, you know, NYPD Blue another show was back in the time. You used to see everything all the time, but it seemed like it really focused on the dudes. Is it because we had female viewership sort of driving our thing for the most part, do you think, or what? Also, when you have Sterling K. Brown and Milo Ventimilius butts on your payroll. Yeah, give the people what they want. You're showing them.

But you're showing them butts. These are called assettes. You know what I mean? And you use what you have. Understood. Okay. That was my little, that was my sidebar on that one. Yeah. Um, Mandy sings. Mandy does sing. Yeah. You show your ass. Okay. That's it. When we do our live podcast, then that's, that's how I'll make my contributions. Hey, you know what? Swalk backwards on stage in your underwear. All right. Let's get back to show. shall we just a go-go dancing sterling we're uh we're gonna go to the office we the doors off the hinge we have lots of people that showed up from the community who've got big problems small problems showed up to take advantage of this opportunity to talk to the councilman one-on-one

rand was excited quick ongoing plot the point is that early on after the run uh j one wants talk to you about his proposal boom and you kind of yeah yeah we'll get to it all we got time for you Did you guys, were you sort of misdirected, too? I was like, yeah, we're meant to be misdirected, right? Correct. Yeah, correct. Okay. And so we're talking to our other advisors.

We have a senior aide sister. I can't remember the sister's name in the show. Bernice. Thank you very much. And Bernice is like, look, man, you need to make time for the other people that you have to convince to vote the same way that you need. You need blocks of votes in order to get legislation passed. Like you spending all this time with these people.

I don't know what you're trying to do, but this ain't. councilman behavior. Yeah. And played by Carlyse Burke. Carlease expertly. Expertly played by Carly. I mean, she is so non-plus.

Yeah. And really convincing. Very, very convincing. And even Jay Wan says to me, like, hey, you need me to say anything to Bernice about the attitude. It's like, no, Bernice is the most senior staff member we have.

We got to have somebody like her. I don't need a thing fully. Yes, people. Like every once in a while, I need to hear what I'm not thinking about, right? But in the meantime, between times, let the people in. Yeah.

Right? And there's a monologue. Todd of just seeing Randall connect with his constituents, lending a genuine ear with an aid towards being of service. I think it's sort of like, Fogelman, in his own way, is like, at its best, how government should function. Yeah. Right.

I think it's like, because we don't talk about Democratic Republic and anything like that. It's just like, are you of access to the people and do you want to be of genuine service? Yeah. Back to that thing that you were saying in the last episode. being of service. Right. Right. So he sees everybody,

but then as he's about to go, he has a meeting with some other councilmen that he's supposed to be taking. Yeah, drinks. Drinks with other councilmen. Somebody else shows up, right? He's running late. He's running late because the bus that he came to complain about

was late and dropped him off where it wasn't supposed to be dropped off, so it took him 20 extra minutes to get to where he was going. Like, all right, bro, come on in. I'll make time for you. Let's talk about it. And Bernice is like, you're going to miss this. Stales J-Wan, please tell the other councilman, I'm going to be a little bit behind,

but I'll be there when I'm there. Wines up having a nice conversation with my man. They are able to talk football, which I think is, you know, a short hand for a lot of dudes to be able to get to find some common ground in a very quick way. And they shake hands he's on his way, but he's 52 minutes late. 6.52 is supposed to be there at 6 o'clock. So Bernice just winds up sort of reading them the riot act to a certain extent of like, look, man, this is not your job.

like your job is to get these votes together and you're wasting time in a way that like seems foolish and it's not even my place to tell you this. Your campaign manager should be the person who's telling you, your chief of staff. Yeah. Should be the person telling you this. And she's like, look, let me not mince words or whatnot.

You need to fire this too, right? Because Randall says like, look, I think I've been fairly tolerant of, you know, you give me a little bit of attitude and everything, but I can't have you directly undermining me in front of people because what happened was he sees that there is a maintenance man there to put the door back to put it back on.

Bernice has reported it. It's hinged. Yeah, she says it's a fire hazard. Yeah, to not have a door. Which doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I was like, I don't. I can actually move faster. But maybe the fact that it's in the way.

Maybe like there's no, there's no place for it. So I guess if we remove the door altogether from the premises, then the fire hazard. But the big kind of emotional takeaway, not only do you need to fire him, but that, like, there's clearly an emotional blurring of the line between professional and friend. Yeah, you guys are referred to as Batman and Robin. Yeah.

You refer to each other as Batman and Robin. Yeah, and you see this easy rapport between them, foot bumps and the like, right? So then we cut to Randall at the drinks with the other councilmen, but the other councilmen are gone. he sits down at the table with J-Wan and you're not quite sure how it's going to go. Yeah, you're like, is he taking Bernice's advice? Is he going to let Jay-Wan go? They had me for a sec. Yeah.

I'm like, does he fire him? Yeah. Because she's convincing. She's convincing. She's really good. And we cut back to Bernice and saying, like, listen, like, I appreciate the experience that you have and what you bring to the table. But like, at the end of the day, man,

like you sort of like are undermining me at every turn. And I don't know if I can actually have you be on the team. if you're always going to be against me. So this will be your last day with me. Yeah. And then Jay Wahn's like, okay, we cut back to that. He's like, well, we're going to have to find somebody else, right? And they take a deep breath or whatnot.

And then he says, you were going to tell me about that proposal. Yeah. Right? And he starts talking about, well, I'm going to, I can't remember everything. What's the song? We think it's professional. We think it's professional. Yeah, I was like, what's this proposal?

But it's actually he's proposing to his girlfriend. That's right. And he's going to play the acoustic version of Everton. long by the foo fighters that's right yeah is that the song that then begins to play uh over the no no it's a difference it's a different song um but yeah he's he's trying to convince you that it's the romantic most romantic song ever made and you say i'm gonna have to take your word for me i'm gonna take your word and that's that's that's that's brown not acting i am not that versed yeah even though i know that the foothiders are a great band didn't know didn't know right so it was it was easy it's

fun when it's easy like that i like i actually don't know yeah no So that was the end of that storyline. Is there anything else? Is there the girls? I do want to touch on the girls real quick, right? Go ahead, man. You know, obviously at the beginning of the episode, it's going to be the grand opening of the dance studio.

Yes. Beth is asking the girls then about their first day of school. They've had their first day of school. Everybody is kind of cagey, especially Tess, and Deja runs out to meet up with Malik on the stoop. And he tells her... Wait! What?

I know this is too little too late but I'm going to say it anyway at in 401 what we find out with Deja riding the bus is that it wasn't just riding the bus for the sake of riding the bus She's riding by the auto body shop

402 402 402 yeah Is that in 401? The last episode In 402 yes In the last episode and to take a picture of Malik and be like yeah I see you in your show

Just the little sweet text floating Like, are you stalking me? Like, we'll flirt. Yeah, little flirt. Yeah. So, go ahead. So Malik comes, meets up with Asia, outside of their home on the stoop.

And he basically tells her that, you know, he's like, what have you heard about me? Have you heard anything about me at school? And she's like, no, like, when am I supposed to have heard about you? Yeah. And he basically tells her, like, I have a daughter. Her name is Janelle. She's six months old. My parents and I are raising her together.

And we get the story as the background. So, like, I was with her mom for a while. You know, she wound of getting pregnant. Her parents wanted to put the baby up for adoption, and that's not what I or my parents wanted. So we are raising my daughter. Yeah. Yes. Right.

A lot to throw on a ninth grader. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So she's up there telling her sister. The boy I like has a baby. Yeah. And Tess is like, ooh, geez, what are you going to do?

This is real. It's real. It's good. That's about as real as it gets. For a ninth. For anybody, yeah, but especially a young person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, great googly-mugly, as they say.

Great googly moogly. Indeed. To quote a great commercial. And they're sharing with each other, like, so what's going on with you? And Tessman winds up saying, and this is to the last hot take. This is something that sort of gets, you know, percolates to the top and then doesn't quite fully play out. But although there are more things to explore in this season.

Because Tess is saying, like, you know, I thought, like, coming, having come out to my family, being at a new school, like, it would be easier. I wouldn't have to, like, start over again or whatnot. And explain it to anything. Explain it. But this girl is, like, sort of, like, sidles up next to me and says, like, isn't this football player cute? And I say, yes. Like, without even sort of thinking about it. Just this sort of knee-jerk reaction to fit in, right?

To not have to stand out and explain. and because everybody understands that. But she's like, I could, I had an opportunity to just sort of say who I was. Like, no, football's not necessarily my thing. Yeah. I like field hockey. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

That would have been a way of doing it. Yeah. Because I didn't have, I don't know how you guys don't, don't be making fun of me, but like, for the ladies in my school, they didn't have, we didn't have a guy's field hockey team. Okay. That's why I was saying it that way. Yeah. We only had girls.

Yeah. Did you have a guy? I play softball in a competitive league. Does that make any sense to you? I wear sensible shoes. If you're talking to Ryan, Michelle Bafay, do you drive a Subaru? That's the sort of thing, too. Oh, yeah, good.

We've gotten all of our offensive stereotypes out of the way. But the things that have played. And so now she's just really trying to figure out, like, what does she do now? right and then we have this moment of two sisters bonding and what have you it's very sweet it's very sweet and she's like oh a boy and and that's where we leave that is anything else in that one nope nope we covered that okay so that's that's all black period i just had a flash i just had a flash to my my middle school give it to me life give it to us and to think about like a third group of 13 and 14 year olds right yeah in the in the early 90s i didn't know any gay people yeah any

gay people. Statistically speaking to at least 10% I mean at least of the people that I including the girls who were we were all interacting with and it was just like it was just

a flash of me realizing like this thing that she's putting on there were so many people putting on in and around me that I wonder and since I none of those people are in my life now I'm like I wonder I wonder who is having to to hide or to shield or to

Yeah. Or to pretend. Yeah. It's, we were all such, I look at those, I look at those photos now. I just recently looked back at the yearbook, the junior high yearbook. Yeah. And children, like babies. Babies.

Yeah. Interesting. It's a good thought. It's, it's very true. And you like I went to an all-boy school for an extended period of time. Yeah, for high school. And like that, that idea of like what it means. to be a young man, et cetera.

Even all through those years, I didn't know any out. No. No. Gay men at my school. Bro, I'll tell you, we had a young man get sort of like wound up leaving the school because he was English and in England circumcision isn't like the normal, the norm as it was in the States at the time. And because he was uncircumcised and got ridiculed, he had to go.

Like, to find just peace. You know what I'm saying? A nightmare. Kids. The cruelty. Yeah. Okay. Should we jump to Kate and Toby?

Jump to Kate and Toby. We find Kate introducing baby Jack to different textures and sort of like talking him through it. Yeah. We then are, we're introduced, reintroduced, right, to Gregory, the neighbor? Or is this the first introduction to him? This is the first. This is the first.

This is the first. Which is a real quick thing. Toby pulls out of the driveway and kind of reveals a neighbor. They've got their pod in the driveway. They're still moving into the house. And there's an angry neighbor. May I say before just full on Gregory, Toby's not putting his suit on. He doesn't want to sweat it up. You know what I'm saying? You know how his body operates for it. So there's this sort of interesting thing where like he's not dressing in front of his wife. Yeah, he's on his way to a work meeting. He's supposed to look nice. that she's going to join him. That he's like, you know me.

I run too warm. Like, I'm not going to get dressed yet. So, yeah, you're right. The audience is taking note of the fact that like, there's something's up. Something's like an insecurity there. There you go. Something he doesn't want to reveal to his wife. Yeah.

He pulls out. There's Gregory. He is revealed and he is noticeably upset. Yeah. And he's like, tell your husband not to park in the middle of the sidewalk anymore. Yes. Like, I can't get by. Yes.

And Kate is sort of taken aback. She's like, oh, hi, we just moved in. I'm so sorry. Like, that's why our storage pods in the middle. Sure. And, you know, he says, well, next time he does that, I'm going to have his car toad. Right. And you're not sure why he's so upset.

Yeah. Why he's so upset? And also, like, yeah, why he's so angry? There are no pleasant trees exchanged. And Kate's like, okay, great. Like, can't wait to live next door to this guy. I just want to say, in Gregory's defense, it's kind of annoying. Oh.

Oh, it's definitely annoying. He's not wrong. He could approach it differently. He could approach it differently. But like when people park, like, it's like, all right, make a decision, bro. My, as a, as a solidly middle-aged man. Yeah. The majority of my injustice in the world is the intermonging is me going, how selfish.

How selfish can you be? Just like, like a real like, hey! You can you. kids? How selfish can you be? But yeah, people parking across the sidewalks. Like, really? Yeah. Really? I'll tell you another one. Really? You're that important?

The Amy Polar. The rules don't apply to you? The Amy Polar schedule on SNL. Really? Yeah. Really. That was a great one. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, they go to the event. Toby is there showing his cohorts or the clients' pictures of his baby. Yeah. Very proudly excited.

Kate walks into it. But it's not just watching him show the pictures. She's looking at her man in the suit. Yeah, and he looks good. My man is killing the suit. Again, with the plunging V. Also, I want to talk to you just a little bit, but I'll wait until we get to this scene.

And it has to do with grooming. I have questions. I have questions. Listen. He's got all the answers. You have no idea how many answers I have. I have an inkling. So she's clocking him and seeing him in his element and whatnot, taking in his suit.

They're about to go sit down in their booth, right? And this was, I think this deserves like a little bit of a pause too because this was an education for SKB. Because, because Chrissy will let you know, certain seats don't work. Yep. Right. Right. And it was actual a real dawning on me. And I was like, oh, shit, I never would have considered.

in this. In the episode, the hostess brings them to a booth. Correct. Right. And Toby, very gently. And I think, like, politely is like, I think there's a, the air vent over our table. It's a little drafty. I want to have some soup. Like, this is just not going to work. And his cute way of deflecting, like, can you please find us another table? Yeah. Yeah. And he points to another table and the hostess is like, I'm sorry, those are already reserved. Like, and his clients that he's having the meal with, they're like, oh, we're fine. But this table's totally fine. They're not eating soup. He's like, I was going to have the bisque.

And Kate very calmly explains, like, no, no, he's actually doing me a favor. I can't fit in the booth. Right. So he's trying to find another table for me. Like, sorry. Yeah. Hate to, like, be awkward about this. Yeah.

And, of course, the hostess is like, we'll find another table for you right this way. So they find a seat. Everything goes well. They come back home and she's like, yo, I should have you with me on all of these things. like we just magically closed on this, IT, whatever it is that you do, Toby knows. You know better than IT. IT solutions. IT solutions.

And your wife just says, hey, Toc, take your shirt off. And you're like, huh? Like, what are you talking about? Like, everything is she's like, no, no, no. Take your shirt off. Take your shirt off. Yeah. And I love, it wasn't like a gentle unbuttoning.

My man just said, Tata, tau. Well, it was snaps. It was like, yeah. Tita, tau, tau. Like, come. I'll lel up in this mother. And this, man, the grooming, like, you know, so, because we know it's groomed, right? Yeah.

Like, it's shorn. But not to the, you know what I'm saying? Not to the skin. We got a nice little. Yeah, it can't come out looking like a naked mole rat. Too pale for that. Because this is the other part. Like, like, most people, if they're about to take their shirt off when you're, when you are a pale, Nordic Irishman,

maybe go get a little spray tan, which I'm just now experienced. into a little spray tan, you guys. Oh, yeah, you really liked it. I really liked it. I really entered my full form. Like, like, every Irish boy's dream to have a full body even tan in 15 minutes or less. It's, you know. How long did he last for?

Not long enough. A week. A week. A week and a half. A vacation. Okay. Yeah, a vacation. But you have to be very meticulous with the upkeep.

Oh, really? You can't use anything oil base. So you can't put lotion on? I'm still learning. I'm still learning. You have to put lotion on. It's what keeps it going. You have to keep your body moisturized, but it can't be oil-based because that will make the tan come off.

I too love a tan in particular moments. I love how I'm eating this up. It does make you feel just a little more alive. Yeah. Yeah. I can tend to get pretty pale in the winter and there is something about like having that sort of sunlit glow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes you feel like the fully realized version of the summer.

I can tend to get pale all the time. I'm just like... A pale. I'm just a pale gentleman. You're not pale right now. You don't have a spray tan right now. Yes. I'm on the tail end of it, bro.

I can see that the tan in those arms. Yeah. And it goes all the way out. Yeah. That's a very natural... Good show. Hope you're watching. But like it's one of those things as an actor that's like, oh, right.

I think that's one of the things. Like, if you're going to have one of these scenes, you go get one of those. So you were talking about prep for the... these things, right? Okay. I think that would have felt weird to the character. I don't mean like he takes it off and he's gold bronze. I just mean like not gray. You aren't gray.

I looked a little gray. Did you feel great? Talk to me like, do you shave the day before or a couple days before? A few days before. Listen, also the grooming, Sterling, you want to know about grooming. There are lines of demarcation that need to be established. Okay. Yeah.

Chest hair, you don't get to be shoulder hair. We're not having shoulder hair. So, okay, we clip it there. Neck hair, you don't get to also be back hair. All right. Back hair, you don't get to be. That goes all the way. That goes all the way.

You've never lasered or waxed or waxed or anything. I have done it twice. Have you? Laser or wax? I waxed once. Lasered ones? The back? Yes.

And it's painful? Horrified. Oh, my God. And then I went long enough to kind of forget about it. And I heard about sugaring, which I've heard it's supposed to be. Is this with the thread? Is that the thread? No, it's this.

It's a different kind of waxing. It's a version of it's waxing. Yeah, it's waxing. Okay. Is it as bad as the wax? Yes. You did your whole back. Yes.

Did you say Kelly Clarkson when they did it? Every single time. Holy cow, man. I love this conversation. Women are only supposed to endure this kind of pain. Well, here's the thing. Like, women tend to get it in a much more sensitive area. Yes.

But in a much less square footage. Copy that. so mine was a smaller footprint as it were a large ass back yes all the like to the point where i'm starting to like kind of lose consciousness where i'm like i'm like how we're almost done right she's like yeah we're about halfway there halfway there maybe i'll just maybe i'll just live maybe i'll just live with half a hairy back until until the rest grows back in because this is a nightmare. And the whole time the lady is like, because I'm getting into

my like, my yogic breathing. I'm like, five breath of fire, like trying to get through it. Don't some people do a painkiller before or something like that? If they do, no one told you about it. Okay. Okay. And, but this lady kept saying, but the thing is

this is how, it'll only hurt this much the first time. The next time, I'm like, I'm like, be, they, I'm not coming back. There's not going to be a second time. Next time. Was this related? We might not finish this time.

Was this related to doing the show or just a separate occasion when you wanted to get it? No, this was a midlife crisis. Copy that. Okay. Sterling, I am in crisis. I am an active crisis. But you look great. Thank you.

You look great. And this is the point. Yeah. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. There it is. the best sound at the end of a long day. We just cracked open a bottle from Naked Wines and I wish you could smell it through your headphones,

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That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com code T-W-U at checkout. Bombus.com and use code T-W-U. This is the other thing that I was going to say about, so you guys are asking about the shirtless thing and... And Paradise. the butt, shower. Yes. Because this is a, this is a PSA, and so it's not to mislead people. It's never like something you look forward to.

Like, truly, like, even being somebody in decent shape. Like, you always, like, you know that there's something that could have been done to be a little bit. We all have insecurities, of course. Right. And so by and large, correct me if I'm wrong on this one, you want to shoot that scene as early in the day as possible. Sure. Right. Because I'm going to wait to eat.

food. Yes. Until you shoot the same. Yeah. There are certain people who do Epsom salt baths. Oh, really? Does that cause, like, inflammation to go down? So Goliath told me about this.

Yeah. There are certain guys who, if they have to, like, I'm sure this is what happened, they dehydrate themselves. Yeah. So that, like, like, there's stories about it in the early Wolverine days. Okay. Those, like, where every vein is popping out. And, like, you see every sine you in.

muscle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like there's a dehydration process. There's like, it's the same kind of thing that, like, um, fighters go through. Yeah. Where they, they'll sit in the sauna and cut weight. And then the night before, 50 pounds of Epsom salt in the bath. And it just sucks. Suck everything. Any extra moisture you have. Wow. Wow. For, for the, for the hour or whatever, you're shooting that scene. And then like, but I found out too late, you know. You found, but like, it's one of those things, too, where like, I had a situation. happen where, and I think it's this season where Randall's caught in front of the, I don't, not YouTube, but like a Zoom session and he's undressing and getting ready for something.

Like we shot it and then they told me like, oh, you know, we actually have to go back and do, we miss something. And like I spent like a week, man like, oh, I know I'm going to have this thing with you to look a certain way. And that's one of the few times that you'll see me like legit angry. I was like, and we didn't get it. And they're like, no, sorry, we got to go. back. And I was like, yo, man, I've been living high off the hog. I've been eating pork rinds and chilling. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, the shirt was supposed to be on for the rest of the season. And now you're telling me that. Oh, bummer. Yeah, it's a bummer. So I just, I'm saying that to folks that, like, what you see, I'm actually, most people are trying to give

you, like, the thinnest sort of most cut, most ripped version of you. It's not you walking around all the time. No. Just what you want people to see. Yeah. So I say all that to say. You looked great. You looked great. I felt great. And Kate is shocked, quite frankly. She's like, where did this come from? Along with our audience.

Yeah, like, how did this happen? How is it that you look like that? And I have gained weight from how stressed out I am. Yeah. With our life as it stands right now. And you admit to... Going to the gym. Secret, yeah.

Secret shredding. And also, you say, I had a heart attack at 38. We have a child now. I don't, like, I want to keep up with him. I want to lead a healthy life and be healthy for him. I was almost not on this show anymore. Do you know that, Chrissy? Chrissy.

Something's got to give. He's getting in shape for his child. And, you know, it's understandable. Yeah. And so then we go back to Gregory again. Gregory and Kate. And she's got the baby. They've been singing out, and he's talking about...

Yeah, because she leaves the house. She's noticeably upset. Yeah. She goes outside. Goes outside, and, you know, your husband's blocking the sidewalk again, right? And he tells her that, like, you know, a couple years ago. It's a couple years, two and a half years ago. A few years ago, I had a stroke.

I had to teach myself how to do everything, chew, talk, walk. I've gotten, trying to get to, like, a mile a day just to keep myself moving. I walk around this block every day. and I and then you sort of get like the idea that like now I have to walk around your husband's car to get back onto my path and whatnot I was like do it again I'm just going to key the car right that's what he says because she winds up talking about how she just had a baby does she tell him that the baby's blind does she tell him I don't remember she just listen man I don't want to hear your I don't want to hear from you I'm dealing with this depending on my my husband's secret sneaking away and getting in shaking away and getting in shaking. She's upset. She's crying. And he actually hits her. This hit me. He's like, I'm sorry you having a bad day. Yeah.

Like he was like, it was a moment of like, all right, I'm going to get out of myself for a second. And I'm sorry you have a bad day, but he does again. I'm a key to car. This is me storming off. And it was so delightfully funny. Yep. Right? Because my man is moving as fast as he came.

Yeah. He's going to be stormed walking up the hill or whatnot. And we should tell, I mean, I think we've told. our audience before, but this is... Tim Omanson. Tim Omenson, the actor, did have a stroke. He did. A few years ago.

And had to teach himself how to do. Essentially, was friends with Dan. Fogelman was on one of Dan's other shows. Gallivant. Gallivant. And Dan essentially brought him on to tell his story. Yeah. Through this character.

Because representation. It matters. It matters. It absolutely matters. And what happens lovingly at the end of the episode is we see Gregory doing a walk. Yeah well Kate and Toby agreeing like no more secrets. No more secrets. Yes, please. We are we are going to be like an open line of communication from now on. Yeah. And we see like you said, Kate and baby Jack walking with Gregory. Walking with Gregory.

And she said, I don't walk very fast either. Yeah. Right. When he said, yeah, like look at what a pair we make or whatnot. Just sort of walking down the sidewalk together. It's a beautiful sight. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful site. Because it's like, you know what? I can I can get my status. in. I can keep you company. That's what neighboring looks like. Right. And it reminds me even, too. Like, I, uh, I follow, I'm on this headspace app. And every once in a while, this guy talks about, like, the importance of neighboring. I don't know how great a neighbor I am to be perfectly, I'm not a bad neighbor. But like, sometimes I'm reticent to, like, get to hang out and know people. Yeah. Because sometimes they, they want to just talk about what I do. And I enjoy what I do and talking about it, too. And then sometimes you just want, like,

when you go home, like, this is the space where I get a chance to talk about or think about anything or nothing else that has to do with the thing in my jacket. So it's a tricky sort of challenge. Do you guys find anything like that or are you pretty good? I, in my middle age, have come to, in my middle age, have come to embrace my introverted nature. Okay. Comfortable with it. I've just more introverted than I realized. Yeah. And so, like, there, are we have neighbors we know our neighbors we know a lot of people in our in our in our neighborhood yeah um but a lot of them are in their 30s which is like a big it's it's a it's way big it's a way bigger golf than i realized like listen i'm all good for friends you know

like i barely have time or energy for the friends i've got i hear you you know so like taking a taking a night out to or an after like to like to like to But I do want a community, and I want my kids to have a community. And we're getting to know people in our neighborhood, and we have two or three pairs of, like, parents with kids. What's your address? It's eight, eight, six, five. Neighboring for you. Do you make casseroles?

I do not pick casseroles. I feel like I'm in, insular as well. It's tough because we lost our neighborhood, if I'm being honest. Yeah, thanks, Dore. Thanks for bringing it up. But I will say the big silver lining takeaway from this crazy, catastrophic thing that happened is like, I feel closer to our neighbors. Most of our neighbors are rebuilding. I feel like there's just this like this sense of community that I felt helpably living in Altadena.

And we only had like a year there and we were still like under construction. So I feel like we didn't really get to like relax and be like, we live here. Sure. We were so close to feeling that. But we knew our neighbors, not super well, but I was excited to be like, we're done. Let's open the doors. Let's have people over to have a cookout and swim in our pool and stuff. And but now I feel like we will be closer because of what we've all lived through and that most people are choosing to stay and like dig into the community. Sure. So I have a newfound appreciation and understanding for what it means to be a neighbor and a part of a community. and I'm excited about the future. Beautiful. Yeah. We are at the Pearson's, the past Pearson's house.

It is the first day of seventh grade. First day of seventh grade just for Randall. Yeah, sorry. Right. Kevin is taking a me day with cucumbers. Yeah. Kate is not doing anything until she sees mom wearing the most ridiculous workout outfit. I was like, I paused the show and I go, WTF.

Taylor was like, what? I was like, what am I aware? That was real. Yeah. That was real. My mom had like the eunitar with the leg warmers. I let them. I let that happen.

It was a thing. And let me tell you, for a young brown, there was a crush. Suzanne Summers? Jane Fonda? Suzanne Summers, her name is Olivia Newton, John. Oh, okay, okay. And old girl would get physical. Do you guys know what I'm talking?

Oh, yes. How dare you. That was my jam. That was your jam. And she was gorgeous. Yeah, gorgeous. Gorgeous. Randall is off to his first day of school.

We see him like, oh, I feel excited. Yeah. And he gets to school. He changes out of his shoes. He puts on some sneakers. Some Jordans. He's rebelling a bit. A little bit.

He walks into class excitedly and meets Mr. Lawrence, who's his teacher. And it's a big deal. Even now, you guys, I don't know how many. Well, he's in middle school, so it's a little bit different because elementary school, I don't think I had a male teacher until high school, right? Because I feel where I was from, they were all women, right? But also more important to the point, he has a teacher who's a black man. Yeah. And I didn't have that till senior year of high school, right? And he wasn't a teacher. He was a basketball coach. And we actually did not get along. Like, and I had such

high hopes for how this relationship was going to go. And it went in exactly the wrong way. Right. And His name was Eric Bang, and he was awful. I'm sorry. No, I rejoice. We're leaving his name in? I rejoice in the opportunity of saying, like, look, man, you thought of yourself as just a basketball coach, but you were someone who had an opportunity because I was one of four black men in my high school class. And the idea that you didn't see mentorship as part of your responsibility, I think you dropped the ball. I'm to say it out loud

Eric, man, I feel like you drop the ball and I hope you learned from that first encounter with me and did better with young men who looked like me coming up afterwards. I hope you did better. Leave it in. Leave it in. Leave it in. It's in. Because I think one of the things that

because I talked to the writers about the storyline and they said we could go in that direction or we could actually find somebody who wants to be who wants to be a mentor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's what we have here and Mr. Lawrence. right? And so Mr. Lawrence says, can't talk to you real quick after school or after the class is over. And he goes, yeah, what's going on, man? He's like, I know you just got here from

Chicago and you're a big Chicago Bulls fan and everything. So here my shoes. And he's like, yeah, man, but you've been here for a while. Yeah, it's like, yeah, this is my third year. And, uh, you're going to have to write you up because that's not dress coat. That's not a dress coat. He's like, but I thought, no heart feelings. He's just like, hey, it's not a big deal. It is what it is. And this is, we're witnessing. witnessing Randall's first panic. Yeah. Right? You see young Lonnie go out into the hallway and he just, he can't breathe.

He can't catch his breath. He is freaking the blank out. Right? He winds up calling home because he has to get mom to sign his things and that he got in trouble or whatnot. And my man having a me day, my Kevin Pearson is chilling with cucumbers on his face, gets up to the phone. He's like, what's going on, man? He's like, and Randall's in near tears, right? He's like, I got to tell mom that I got in trouble.

at school. And he's like, well, wait a man, hon, calm down, take it easy. He said, I'll meet you. I'll come up there. No big deal, right? And just continuing that Kevin through line of what his dad, what his dad said to him before in terms of like taking care of like somebody to take care of or whatnot. Gets on his bike, rides up to school. And he sees random, like, what's going on? He's like, I was out of dress code. I was wearing the wrong shoes. And now mom has to sign his permission slip or just saying that, you know, recognizing that I out in trouble. And he's like, what do you want mom when she's in a hurry? You want mom right before she goes to sleep. And so Kev starts to sign the paper. And he's like, you can't do that.

And he's like, bro. I do it all the time. I do this all the time. Like, you need to calm down. Yeah. Right? She's never going to see it. Yeah. Everything's going to be just fine. And this is the question that I have for you guys is rules. I'm Randall. Are you a follower? When I got my first detention, I freaked out. I'm Randall, too. I am a rule follower. Yeah. I did not getting in trouble.

I never thought of forging my mother's signature. No. Yeah. It didn't occur to me. No, no, no, no. Right. That's wrong. Yeah.

So I'm not Randall. You're not. Yeah. You're Kevin. But I don't know if I ever had to forge a signature. You just never got into. You just never gotten to me. No, no.

I got suspended from high school. What? For how long? For what? For a week. That's a long suspension. Fight? For fighting.

Five for fighting. So I had like a whole other streak and like me and rules I look at them as basic guideline. Sure. Right? Like before like California, we just recently passed like that you can't

Jay walking is legal now. You just have to make sure that you can see where you're going or whatnot but it used to be illegal or whatnot. And my wife would get so mad at me when there was no cars coming and I crossed the street. And she's like, are you just going to take your life

into your own hands? I was like, well, there's no cars coming. I'm going to tell you another one, guys. I'm going to admit this straight up. If it's a no right on red, you're going, right? There's nobody coming. I'm making a right.

We might need to cut that out. If anyone from the LAPD is watching. Keep it in. He didn't mean it. If there's no obstructed view, and I can see where people are going, making a right. Okay, all right.

You guys, you'll wait that whole time. I will. Every time? Yeah. No, you can. Because I just, I had a conversation with my sister recently, what she was talking about, like, something that she thought was so abhorrent to do. And I was like, this doesn't sound abhorrent at all.

Yeah. I was like, we do what we have to do until we can do better. That's right. You know what I'm saying? That's right. That's brown. Anyway. And so it's a moment of connection for his brothers where Kevin is able to be of service.

Yep. Right? And then later on in the house, we see them sitting down on the edge of the bed. and talking about, you know, what happened throughout the course of the day and sort of saying, like, thanks, Randall's, like, thanking him for a coming as a day. He's like, it's like, why are you making a thing out of it? And then Kate winds up joining in. What is her entree into the conversation?

She does tell them that they want, she wanted to kiss and Stewart, right? She does. Yeah, and they're right. I think because Randall says, like, he felt like his heart was going to explode. And she's like, in a good way or a bad way, like she kind of just like a heart attack. You feel like you were going to die? Like, she just is. inquisitive about what happened to him over the course of the day. And yes, then she admits that she kissed

Stewart. And that's when they say his last name. Stuart. Stuart Bangabini. It's like Abernathy or something. It is, it's with an A. It is. It is with an A. Yeah. Ambercrombie? Stuart Abercrombie? Because Randall is like, Stuart? Stuart? Randall has the incredulous like, really? Stuart? It was very sweet. But it was a nice moment of just seeing the three of them together. with each other, right? And then not to gloss over it too fast, but we see Jack getting in trouble too at work. Please.

But the big takeaway from that kind of shorter storyline is we, for the first time, like, really, really find out who Miguel is. Yeah. Yeah. He basically throws himself in front of the bus. Totally. And says to Jack's boss, if he goes, I go. Yeah.

And I'm... And this is the type of friends we are. Exactly. I brought in five of the eight biggest accounts that you have here. So if you, what's worth, what's more to you? The $20,000 that he's going to cost you or the hundreds of thousands of dollars not having me and my cash-rich clients. Yeah.

Right? And Jack stays. And they stay. And Jack says to him at the end of that episode is like, look, I know we don't get too mushy on these things or whatnot. But if I ever hear that you need anything, you don't come to me first. Yeah. Like a wife.

Yeah. Or anything. Albergini Albergini Stuart Albertine Stuart Lamburgini Wait

that has There's some connection to somebody knows an albergini Yeah exactly Vera

I'm sure I'm sure Black Vera's therapist's A elementary school boyfriend Yeah

Yeah So funny Stuart Alborgini and it was And he And then Miguel sort of makes

lighter He's oh I love YouTube it guy But that is That that's That's love. These dudes have each other back.

And it's a big moment for Miguel and the audience, like who this guy is and why he deserves all praise. It's interesting because it's a slow build, right? Yeah. We build, we build, ultimately until we get to 615, which is Miguel's episode or whatnot. And I think we game people along the way. Yeah. But I think a lot of people waited until 615 and then they were like, all right. Yeah.

You know what I can't. I can't. You know what I'm saying? I can't deny it. Can't deny it. He's a straight rider. Yeah. You don't want to fuck with him.

And the show ends, or this storyline ends, I guess, with the whole family watching Arsenio Hall together. Kevin goes to his parents like, I know we're supposed to be asleep, but can I just ask this one time if we could do this? Yeah. Which is a long callback. That's a callback to the last episode. Correct. That's a long callback for our show. Yeah.

Because Randall's never watched our senior. People are paying attention, though, so the show's like, we can do this. Yeah. They know what we're referring to. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's almost like he winds up asking for the family, but he's really asking for his brother too.

For sure, 100%. So that he's not sort of feeling like he's out and alone, but we get a chance to do this thing together and he gets to know. Something we need to do. I think he's, I think even at the last episode, he's like, God, Randall, you got to stop doing everything except like just reading books or something, you know. Part of it's staying up late. Yeah.

They're not supposed to be up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to breaking the rules. has its benefits. Absolutely. Do you know what I'm saying?

Absolutely. You're someone who needs to loosen up a little bit. That's right. That's right. Turn right on red. Yeah. This has been a good episode so far, but it's about to get even better because we're about to talk to that Tim Joe. Oh, yeah.

One himself. Stay with us. We'll be right back. So we have a very special guest on this episode. We do indeed. The actor who plays Tim Joe himself. Oh, no, pardon me. The actor.

Keep it. Just go. No, no. So we have a very special guest on the show today. The actor who plays J-Wan. That's my dog, man. Mr. Tim Joe, joining us. What up, Tim Joe?

Hello. Hey, how are you? Hey, guys. Good to see you. Shit, somebody bringing sexy back. Tim Joe in the house. Hello. What's going on, what's up?

What's up? How are you? Very happy to see you. you guys. I feel like this should be part of this fan segments because I'm a day one listener. Oh, Tim, thank you. So you knew this invite was coming. I couldn't even, I'm

more of a fan of the show, so to have gotten to play a small part of it is still so surreal. Not that small, my friend. Not that small. Guys, if you're not watching on Spotify, YouTube, whatever you, Tim Joe, he's wearing silk.

That's right. We got double hoops in our ears. There's a little bit of product in the hair, messy, just you know what I'm saying? Like, the dude is looking. You brought it. You brought your A-game. God, bless you, man. The eyebrows look wax. What are we doing? What's popping? No, I learned a lot when working with you, Sterling. Even through COVID,

I was doing your workout. I called it the Sterling workout. I got three friends together, and we did the Sterling workouts and filmed it and just sent it to each other as accountability. Are you serious? That is hilarious. You guys know what this workout is? It's a pyramid. Okay, and it goes like this.

I don't want to know if you did all of it or if you abridged it at all. Start off with 50 jumping jacks, 40 air squats, and if you can, you go into the Releve at the top of that. 30 push-ups, 20 butt-ups. So you lay on your back, bring your legs to 90 degrees with a little pulse, and then back down. Then that's followed by 10 burpees. And then if you have it, 10. Which is just me burping 10 times. There you go.

And if you have it, 10 pull-ups, and you go through that three times as quickly as you can. Okay, because, Tim, you probably did the same thing that most people do. When they see Sterling, they just go, how? How? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Did you do it all? We did.

We did it every day throughout COVID. Dude. Wow. And let me tell you, I've stepped away from it for a minute, and I did it for the first time in a while. It was humbling. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You got to stay on top of it.

I bet. I bet. Well, we are, we find, we are getting to talk to you. Where do we find you now? are you in the world? I'm back in LA. I just moved back to LA. I spent the last five months in Atlanta. Reasonable doubt. Yeah, but now I'm back in LA. It's, you know, we're all parents here. So, like, to do these five months away from family is quite excruciating. Oh, man. How old are your babies now? Because you had, you had your first during the show, didn't you? You know, Sterly,

you are my unofficial godfather to my daughter. I touched the belly. I blessed the belly. I remember it well. You prayed for her and we tell everybody that you are Wednesday's Godfather. They are five and two. I've got a second one, a boy named Western. Amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. Five months. It's painful. Painful to be away. Did you guys get to visit each other at all during the five months? Were you able to come home for like a second or what? This is my second round of doing the long distance. So I found that second season or the second round, I had to

let our line producer know these are the dates I want to go home. First is, before it was waiting for the schedule. Yeah, asking for permission. That's right. Yeah. Let them know up front, man.

That's what you got. It made a huge difference. Huge. Huge. Good for you. In terms of, like, we know a little bit about your history with Fogerman personally,

but tell our audience, like, what your history with Fogelman is and how the show came to you. I mean, it's, I've had one angel in this career and I think we all have the same angel as Dan Vogelman. Yeah, we do.

So this is going back to 2008 or 2009. Yeah. I auditioned for this show. All I had known was that it was written by the guy who did Crazy Stupid Love. Tangled, Bolt, Cars, just all my favorite things. Crazy Stupid Love was the first movie that my wife and I saw when we were dating.

So when I said, when I got to see that I got to audition for a show that the writer wrote, that the creator wrote, I was all in. And it was a wacky alien comedy. Right. And I remember in my audition, I did a pre-read, and then I went straight to producers, which means I got to read for the producers. And there was one guy who had a stone cold face. And I was like, that must be Dan Fogelman. And then there was another guy who was, like, laughing. I threw out all my scenes and all my emotional moments.

That was Dan. That was Dan. It was actually Chris Koch. Oh, Chris Koch was Stoneface? He was our serious director for that. Yes, I get that. Okay. So then, you know, very, very long story short, that's the first and really the last time I've auditioned for Dan.

But I've been working for Dan, I think five four or five times now Wow Yeah so We did a show At the same time As season one of This Is Us

It was called Pitch Yeah That one was a show run by Kevin Falls Also This Is Us Totally We didn't make it To another season

We only did 13 episodes I believe Yeah And after that I just couldn't get paid to get arrested. I was unemployed. I think I had the toughest career in financial times for those next two years. Oh, man. And one day I get a phone call saying, are you available for a four episode arc on This Is Us? And I said, I can't believe this. Yeah. When is the audition? And my manager said uh tim it's it's actually not an audition it's an offer and you they i think as actors we've

all had these moments but this was uh you know i i waited i was sort of in shock for a couple months as the deal came through um but the day i got to tell my parents they you know they live in texas so of course they've got this theater room that they built as a shrine to their actor son and they had put up this billboard this this chalkboard sign that said now showing pitch. And it had said pitch on there for about two years to the point where I didn't want to go home because I didn't want to see that stupid sign

of what was my failure. So I FaceTimed them and I instructed them to go to that theater room, take down that chalkboard, erase pitch. And they're like, why? Why? I said, just erase it. And I told them to write, T-H-I-S- This Is Us. And at the end of it, they said,

okay this is us who are we and I said no you know Dan's other show this is us yeah

I was like I get Dan gave me a job on that show and the three of us just burst into tears it was

maybe one of my favorite highlights of my life and of this that's incredible Tim that's a that's a gorgeous story and just for like

folks who don't know like, you know, it's a feast of famine sort of industry, right? You know, we, you have these moments where you're working consistently, et cetera, and then it can be a dearth, right? And we're talking two years, like, did we have auditions in the two years and just no bookings? Or we're like, the auditions went away as well? On average, looking like me at that time, we don't really get many opportunities anyways. So maybe one a month.

But, yeah. So, and that was at the time, we were first. financially so strapped. So fortunately, my wife was a florist. Yes. So we were just doing florist. In fact, I was a florist all throughout my run on this as well. I remember.

What a story. God bless old Fogerman, man. The best. And the character he gave you is like instantly beloved on our show. Yeah. Much due to your precise execution. For sure. And warmth.

You were just a naturally warm human. And, yeah, it's just likable from the jump. I'm like, oh, I'm rooting for this guy. Even when you're dubious of Randall and his, you know, wanting to be the councilman. Yeah. It's, yeah, I just like immediately you're like, I'm with this guy. I'm on his side. Absolutely.

And we're talking to you now where you're already in office. Both of you are in office. Yeah. Like what just happened, bro, is you're sort of going through the proposal. And I'm like, all, we'll get to the proposal. and then the episode ends, where we don't know if I'm about to fire you or not, it turns out there's never even a question.

We had to get rid of Bernice, old crotchety, Bernice. And then I'm like, finally, let's talk about your proposal or whatnot. So I'm just curious for you playing J-Wan and what we got a chance to go through together. What are the things, the highlights that sort of stand out in your memory? It was, like I said, my wife, my family and I were in tears over a four-episode arc what we thought was going to be four episodes.

Too good to keep it to four. There you go. So to have made it to this episode and to be reading the script, I was like, okay. You know, we made it to six episodes or eight episodes. I don't remember it.

I was like, okay. And I was making my way through the episode. And also, Dan, he gives me a job on the show, but he puts me opposite you, Sterling? I mean, I was terrified. Really? Oh, terrified. I was hyperventilating before our first scene.

You know, fortunately, you know, you brought your son to work that day. I did. And he was playing this iPad game and just chatting with him calmed me down before I had to shoot. I remember that. He was playing some shadow arcade games. That makes sense. But I don't want to get too off topic. But even preparing for working on this show, I.

I just got obsessed with you guys, the show, the Pearson's, everything. I was so in love with everything. And especially even you, Chris, like, Toby in the way that there are so many buttons and scenes that I was like, this has got to be Chris. Like, you're right. I got off the rails a bit. No. Credit from, take the credit away from the writers. I just thought you were so brilliant.

And the looseness in which you inhabited Toby. And that actually gave me the courage to say, just go. Yeah. Because I think one of the difficult things is also being offered a job because they don't know what you can do. Right. I was unemployed actor. Now I'm opposite Sterling K. Brown. I was the water boy that was asked to get on court lace up with Michael Jordan.

I love that You killed, bro And you're funny You are like Mandy said Heartfelt from Jump Street And so I love the direction That they took our characters Because it sort of mirrored us

Like I enjoy your company right And I think they just say like You know what? Let's see if we can just play with that Batman and J-on can be Batman and Robin Batman do that thing You know what I'm saying? We don't have a lot of friends on the show There's a lot of family

We need a friend every once in a while. Yeah. It was great. Do you know how many episodes it actually wound up being for you? Technically, it was four seasons, from four episodes to four seasons that I was with you guys. Nets. I love that. Yeah.

That's how you do that. It's a win. But it's also one of those things. They can't ignore you. This is it. And this is what we know that, like, the public may not know. They may have these ideas, grandiose ideas of, like, new characters that want to bring in or whatnot. But if the people come in and the connection isn't sort of felt immediately or whatnot,

or if it doesn't seem to be working, they will segue. That is a gift to the writer's room. You know what I'm saying? But when somebody comes in, they're like, oh, shit, this guy's great. Yeah. Let's see what else. We got to find something else for whoever, you know what I'm saying? And that's what you did, bro.

Like I sit, I watch Reasonable Doubt. Like, Joe is hysterical. Yeah. Like, he is the comic relief of a show that. sits in like a rather sort of serious, self-important sort of place. And you just come in with these buttons or whatnot. And he's like, my man is killing every little bit that he has. He makes the most of it.

And you did the same thing on our show, bro. That's who you are. It's true. Thank you. I appreciate it. Hell yeah, bro. And it don't raisin. Look at this man.

52 years old, ladies and gentlemen, if you are on, watching it live, interview over. Asian don't raisin. Man looks good. God damn it No I just freak out I start flipping to Ah no

No He's not 52 But he does look good I'm 41 He 41 Boom close Come on bro Close

Um 41 in the house What else do we want to say What else do we want to touch on Is there anything else In terms of just the journey of the show And like the character Yeah like is there a story

Is there an episode just your entire arc as J-Wan that really sticks out to you is there like a particular favorite episode or a behind-the-scenes sort of story that you want to share with us? Yeah. There's too many,

but I guess pertinent to this episode, it was written by who we all called Black Vera. That's right. Come on, me. He knows Black Vera. I wonder if she knows. Did she know? Beer knows she's Black Vera.

Okay. So her husband is a quite, a comic book aficionado. Yes, you're right. Little things of him saying, can I be Robin? I mean, can I be Amadeus Cho instead of Robin? Because Robin looks Asian, but he's not Asian.

Right, right. And can I be Amadez Cho, who is a Korean-American superhero? That is correct. So little things like that, I was like, what was such a gift to be able to say that and speak that for the representation of my people?

And then a real personal thing is, in our last conversation when I'm actually talking about my proposal, I dropped the name of my few hopefully who became my fiancé, and I say, Hannah. Yeah. Hannah is my wife. Yes, she is. And we even made flowers for Vera's wedding. We made her bouquet.

Wow. So for Vera to sort of honor Hannah back in that way and let me say Hannah's name into this show, into this universe. For J-Wan's wife to be Hannah, it's probably got to be one of the most special things ever. That is so cool. I love this shit, man. I love this. I love it. Because, you know, like, those little things that make things personal and just sort of give you a direct connection, it makes like acting less and being easier.

You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. Correct. Yeah. And I bet you love the food fighters, too. I'm just kidding. I don't know if you feel about the food fighters. I do.

We'll see. There you go. It all plays, man. It all plays. Besides reasonable doubt, Big Dog, we want to know. First of all, where can people find you on your socials and whatnot? And what else can they look out for you? If anything, please, this is your opportunity.

Look into this camera, this camera. I'm just kidding. Look into the thing. Share what you want to share. I am on Instagram as Hello Tim Joe. Okay. And, yeah, on September 18th, I don't know when this podcast will air, but, yeah, season three of Reasonable Doubt will be airing.

So, uh... On On On Onyx. Check it out, which is on Hulu. Yes. Congratulations to Washington Black. Thank you very much, sir. Appreciate it. But, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's actually very fun.

I'm looking forward to the character arc this season. If, for people who have watched Reasonable Doubt, I have a very long, uh, I have very long shaggy hair and glasses, but, uh, my character goes through quite a transformation this year due to certain events. Oh, I feel the glow-up coming on. There was a couple episodes a while ago where you mentioned Flatfront Randall. Yeah.

I was listening to that episode and needed to take that advice for a scene I had to do on reasonable doubt. There you go. Okay. I got you. Okay. Helping people. See, you're helping people.

You're putting information into the world. Don't even realize. Dude, Tim, Tim, Joe, we love you, bro. Love you, man. Thank you so much for coming. So much for gressing us with your presence. You freaking rock, dog. I love you guys.

We love you, too. I think we're all family. I think so. Yeah, we are. I'm going to come to, I want to see these two beautiful children of yours. I look forward to it. God bless you, you back in town. I'm going to shoot you a text.

Don't be surprised. Thank you so much, Tim. It was so nice to see your face. So nice to see it. And Mandy, congrats on another Fogel family. Right. Thank you. Dude, you're so kind.

So kind. You are the man. Give Hannah our love. I'll talk to you soon. Bye. See you. So, yeah, if you are listening to this episode now, you can see reasonable doubt. Yeah. The new season is out on...

September 18th? Yeah, it came out September 18th. On which network? On its, on Unix Collective, which is on one of the tabs of Hulu. Excellent. Yeah. So that's the end of another beautiful episode of that was us. Tim Joe gracing us with his gorgeous,

beauteous continents, and not just radiating from the outside, but from within as well. What a great, great guy. Yeah. Share the show. Please. Support our sponsors. Yes. We love you.

Yeah. We miss you? I want to hold you. Yeah, no doubt. I miss your musk. That's inappropriate. That was us. That was us.

That was us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith. and Griffin Goldsmith.