That Was Us - Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

In this week’s episode, we follow Kate’s journey and the moments from childhood that shaped her into the woman she is today. From secretly dreaming of attending the Berklee College of Music to navigating life’s toughest heartbreaks, this episode gives us a greater understanding of why Kate is guarded.  Mandy, Chris, and Sterling discuss how parents provide more than just physical shelter—they shape emotional security, too. Plus, we unpack Ka-Toby’s heartbreaking miscarriage, how they process grief in entirely different ways, and the powerful wisdom Rebecca shares with Kate about truly feeling her pain before it consumes her. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing season two, episode nine, number two. Kate and Toby experience a sudden change in their lives trajectories, and Rebecca is supportive of Kate's aspirations to become a singer. When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. mx.ca slash ymex rock and roll welcome to the doggone that was us podcast happy to be here sir thank you for having me uh what an honor we are in a uh my guests

hot seat over there it feels like get today is sterling k brown american american actor of uh film stage and screen so we're in uh episode episode episode number two of of our three, our first big three trio of episodes. Yes, the trilogy. We talked about Kevin last week. Yeah. This week. It's all about Kate.

We're talking about Kate. We're talking about Kitobi. It's interesting because they kind of expand in that way. Kevin's is kind of just Kevin. Then this one is, because we're both parts of couples, right? So then we expand to Kate and Toby. And then it's sort of like Beth Randall, you survived the heart attack. Which means I get to weasel my way into the Kate episode.

You get to stick around. Down, big man. So we start off again with that montage of the home videos from their babies, seeing who's going to walk first. And it's interesting, though, because in other words, saying, come on, number two, come on. Do we see her walk or she just kind of standing? She kind of stands. She's kind of standing.

And I don't know if, like, if that's on purpose in terms of how they use the edit or if it was just like, little baby just didn't feel like going nowhere. I believe it was the latter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I remember in this at the beginning of episode, you see Jack or, as I could tell, because I know him, Milo, jump behind this baby and do like these hand motions like, go baby, go baby. And the baby just stands there. Yeah. You know, it's hard to get little ones to follow direction, obviously. It is.

It is. Amen. Do you guys want to do sequential? Do you want to take the past storyline or the presence? I always like doing the past. Yeah, let's do the past. Let's live in the past. Because we've seen in the past that there's a day when Coach from Pitt is coming over to the house to visit Kevin.

In the first episode, number one, we saw Kate listening to headphones, just kind of sit and chilling. With her dog. And we see Randall filling out an application for Harvard, I believe. But he's about to go on a road trip with his dad. And this series, this series of episodes is the introduction of this dog. It is. Yes. This dog.

Have we not seen the dog before? Well, I don't think we've made the connection yet, but this is the same dog after Jack and Rebecca had their date night, where Rebecca was trying to, Jack Pearson him. Yes. This dog is, like, in their front yard eating out of their garbage or eating, they went and got burgers and Rebecca sort of like tossed the bag behind her. And as they're walking back in the house after their conversation, this dog is eating the remains of that fast food. And I don't know what breed of dog this is, but it looks perpetually homeless.

Mange. Yeah. He's a scrappy guy. Like, have we combed this dog? Nobody calms the dog. Nobody calms the dog. But the dog is an important, it becomes a very important character in this is us. Yes, he does.

Moving down the line. But so, yes, this is the same night, a different perspective. From Kate's perspective, And we've come to find out that the tape that she's listening to is her audition for the Berkeley School of Music. Yes. And she wound up doing summertime. We don't know exactly what it is yet. But we come to, the lights go out and she asked the dog not to pee because the dog gets nervous very easily.

And then the dog pees. And so she has to clean the pee up, et cetera. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, you do it. Are we about to talk about the same thing? No, I don't know. Are we?

So she goes to clean up to pee and she's wiping the dog. She's like dabbing the dog, right? And I'm like, what? In God's name. Are you doing? The piss stain is upstairs. And she throws the dog and it's like dabbing this dog's penis. And I'm like, what?

Rebecca comes in and says, please. It doesn't say, please don't, what the hell are you doing? It says, don't do that on a couch. I was like, a living room couch. That's not, you don't need to clean up the dog. With the dog. I like is this is like a piece of bounty that we're just like the dog did not the dog did not be on that couch on its on the couch or on itself no no no never has there been a a pet mistake where people like we got a we got a we got a bounty this dog and and and I got a I got to know on set like who gave that direction because that was not her that was Ken Olin that's Ken I think I think Ken's never owned a dog and Ken was like I think Ken's never owned a dog and Ken was like I I think what you do is you flip the dog over and you give a little pat on its,

on its private parts with a paper towel, I think is what you do. Anyways. I cannot. I did clock that. It was like, that is strange. It was weird the first time I saw it. And she's like, she's just, what do you do it to this dog? Yeah.

Also, it's like, yeah. I just, I remember thinking like, that's your dog. You love the dog. She's like, that's right. Right to call it out. So I was going to say that Rebecca is prodding Kate to give her some, to fill out her school applications, to choose five different schools that she maybe wants,

that she's interested in investigating and applying to. And Kate is very unfocused. She kind of brushes her mother off. And we come to learn that's because she already has a plan in place, which is to apply for the Berkeley School of Music. Yeah. And how we find out, you go up into the room after she leaves with the dog, right? And you're just sort of rooting around a little bit, straighten up,

fact-finding mission that parents will go on from time to time. Believe me, as they get older, every once in a while, you're like, I need information. What's going on with this kid? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You see the application. You see the tape, and you play the tape.

And there's, guys help me with this montage, because there's her singing over, And are we flashing back to the present? Yeah, where Kate is. So we can come back to that because we're sort of broken up. But it's a really beautiful sort of montage, right? And also just this idea that like, oh, my daughter is singing again. You know what I'm saying? And how can I be a service and how can I help?

Now, this is interesting. Quick anecdote. My son, I go to my oldest son, Andrew, he has two advisors. And his two advisors are like the drama teachers at school. So the two advisors are... It's like an S&L sketch. They are heightened and explored. They are beautiful people, right?

And so they'll say, like, we'll have Andrew in class because for one of his electives is improv or something like that from last year. And they're like, Andrew's kind of good. Like, he has some of the best ideas in improv that goes. And, like, we try to encourage him to come an audition. And he's like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, Andrew's a jock. Yeah.

Right? So the idea that he would do something like that. But it reminds me of this storyline because I talked to him. I said, hey, man, I heard you actually pretty good when it comes to like the theater games, et cetera, et cetera. And he's like, yeah, so. He's like, was there anything that you would ever consider doing? And he said, point blank, I will never do the same thing as you. Wow.

How does that make you feel? Not bad. No, of course not. But like an interesting leap. Very, right? To jump to the end of the discussion. He's like not even what I tread along that. path because I think that path leads to comparison and the idea that I would ever

have to be compared it's like Bronny James was okay to do it for some reason or another yeah but Bronny James will always be compared to the greatest basketball player who's ever played it's unfortunate for him you know what I'm saying and it makes me think Kate keeping it from you was it also just sort of like listen if it doesn't go my way I don't have to discuss anything like nobody knows about it yeah but if you if she She, if you in particular, right, know about it and I fail, then, like, there's this thing that exists now that I could have tampered. Well, isn't that the entire reason Kate wanted to keep the pregnancy secret as well?

It's like, you want to keep the stakes as low as possible because they are exceedingly high. So not telling anybody, in your line of thinking, will somehow mitigate, like, the pain of disappointment if things don't end up going your way. This is a big theme in our industry, too, the delayed joy. Sure. Because we as actors have learned to kick the can down the road where it's like, I'm not going to get too excited. I've heard it being considered. Okay, I have a callback. Not going to get too excited.

Okay. Oh, I got the part. Okay, I'm not going to get too excited. Not until I'm on set. When I'm on set, when I'm on set, I'll be excited. Sure. When it comes out and we see if people even like it. When it comes out.

Okay. Okay, if we get another season, I'll be excited. Next thing you know, six seasons have gone by, and you haven't enjoyed any of it. Yeah. Because you've been waiting to be excited about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something to it, but I'm wondering, like, in terms of, like, when your mom is known for something. Sure.

Right? And you have a passion for that same thing. Like, do you keep it close or do you open yourself up to that? And different people make different choices, right? Yeah, I mean... Clearly makes one to sort of keep it to herself, right? then you wind up sort of at the football game

and let me know if I'm missing anything in between. I don't think so. You guys are at the game and very sweetly just hand of $50 and you're like for your application fee

and she's like you went through my stuff and she's like look yeah I went through your stuff I saw you were doing this thing I wanted help so here's the money and you were so sweet

like it's interesting because I'm waiting as like is Rebecca going to say like that raw thing. Yeah. And she doesn't. And she doesn't.

For once. At all. It is so sweet. I think you have a real shot. I think it's really terrific. You know what I'm saying? And I think you have a shot. And she says, thanks.

Right? So it's very cool. That happens right before Kev has his injury and she has to go call dad, et cetera. Is there anything with them once they get to the hospital from Kate's perspective? Yeah. You guys have a conversation in the in the lobby. in the lobby. We do.

We do. In fact, it's quite sweet. Yeah. And I was watching it and now having a daughter, I'm like, oh, this is so interesting now to sort of think about it from this perspective. This is so good. Yes, please go. No, no, no.

No, you go, go. Well, because you talk about this whole thing, and you have to fill it in about what parenting is and how, you know, you've seen how things were with me and my mom. And she was always sort of like closed off. And I always just wanted to be open and available to you as a mom, have my arms open. So when you need them, I'm here. You can fall into them.

And sometimes you may feel like this if you won't, but my job is a mom is to just keep the arms open for when you are ready. Right. And it's such a sweet and thoughtful thing. And I want to connect it back to it. We will. We will. Yes.

Connected. I heard this morning, we were speaking of parenting, there was two comedians talking, and it was this Irish comedian. who I love very much, named Tommy Tiernan, who was talking about parenting, and he distilled it down in a way that I was like, yeah, that's it. I agree with that.

Yeah. Which is that it is a parent's job to provide shelter. Yeah. Of all kinds. Sure. Physical, emotional, financial, spiritual. Yes. And whether or not the child needs it is up to them.

Yes. But they need to know that it is always there. That is. And I was like, and I was like, that's it. Tommy T. Nailed the tough part as a parent, you always want to give it, whether they want it or not. And you have to learn how to just sort of like, I'm here. And not getting your feelings about whether or not they're like looking for you or not, just be like, I'm here.

Because having those things allows them to develop as wild and free and autonomous beings. And you know that you can fall back to that shelter. Yeah. Right? It gives you the freedom to kind of spread your wings and become your individual. More. That was us after this short break. This episode is brought to you by Defender.

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Seriously, you owe it to yourself to try NutraFall. We love it, and we think you will too. Okay, so that's that last little beautiful. Beautiful thing. Should we jump to the future? And then we can tie it back in at the very end. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It opens with Kate and Toby, and Toby's on the couch.

Yeah. And Kate's like, all right, I'm off to my gig. And Toby's like, excuse me? I thought we were going to, are we going to sit here and be upset about the miscarriage that we just had? Right. Yeah. And she's like, no, I'm going to go do my thing. Wait.

Huh. You guys have to have the. Wait. Yeah, you're skipping over the. 20-natal vitamins jumped buddy yeah wait what did I miss well just the fact of her suffering the miscarriage yeah she had had it I forgot we can cut all that out yeah and cut out my misstep no no it's all good and then and then yeah it's only fine and then it's only thing you're like wait a minute I jumped so we opened um yeah all of those things they're making her her list of questions that she

wants to ask her OBB, so she doesn't forget anything. Yes, that's right. But you see genuine enthusiasm. An excitement. It's palpable. Happening for her with this baby. And them. Yes. Yes. Everybody in the Damon Pearson household is getting amped about this thing, right? So then...

She goes into the restroom. She goes to the restroom to do so. Oh, she wants to measure something for the bathtub thing that they want to get to watch the baby. And you see Toby's listening from off camera. And off camera, we hear a thud. She yells Toby. And, yeah, she yells Toby.

She yells Toby. She yells Toby. And there's a thud thing before in jails Toby, right? Cut to the hospital, right? A lesser show would have had to explain. A lesser show. Everything that had happened. But we see, and it's over, it's over montage, right?

There's not like a direct, there's a little bit of talking. A little bit of the doctor explaining what's happening. Well, you guys can try again. You were totally healthy, et cetera. And you just see two people in shock. Yeah. Right. And we as an audience, or let me say, me as an audience, start to feel like, okay, how, because the joy was just so palpable and exciting for me and you're like, the rug being pulled feels all the more sort of dramatic.

And you just hope that everybody is going to be okay. That's what I was feeling of like, I hope they're going to be okay. They go back to the house. and I see Kate putting on makeup like she's getting dressed or something she's got this red dress on and here's what's happening Toby is on

Toby's sitting on the couch that they're about to have a day of being sad about what has just happened to me having a little grief party but it doesn't even the way that you sort of put forward it seems generous and like

you know we need a moment to process but it doesn't sound like it's a pity party. It sounds like we, we collectively need a moment to just sort of deal with this thing. And she's like, no, I got the gig. And, you know, if I cancel on them, they may not call me back again. And you're like, are you serious? Like, it's barely been 12 hours. We just went through this thing. And she says, and this is something that I want to talk about, I went through it to be like, I lost the baby, right? I'm so curious. Like, and Mandy, I would love to ask you this question. Like, when you, when you are pregnant, and it is obvious,

you that is having the baby. Do you enjoy hearing your husband say we versus I? Do you have any feelings about it one way or another? Yeah. In fact, I was just telling you before we recorded. Yeah. My husband and I were watching the show last night, this episode, and both later in the episode when Kate says,

I was pregnant, like you don't understand, I lost the baby. And when Chris says, goes through his explanation of like, I understand, like, I physically wasn't carrying the baby, but I lost the baby too. I lost the baby, too. We both were like, oh, like, yes, of course, like the fact that she didn't acknowledge. That never bothered me. Like, yes, you are in it together.

Again, someone that is physically carrying the child. Right. But both people, both, your partner, you're in it together. And yes, I very much, I never was like, felt weird about that. Okay. What about you guys? I just said she's having a baby. Yeah.

I had nothing. You know, I'll say, like, if I feel, if, mom, My wife is a very particular person, too. So let me be clear saying that. And also, let me preface, right, Michelle Beth, I love you. But I feel like any time that I'll try to sort of like try to be in partnership with her during those times, she'll be very clear. It's like, oh, are we pregnant, Sterling? Is that what we're doing right now?

And I'm like, sorry. Like, you know, so I'm always sort of like. There was a little bit of that. Yeah, yeah. trying to find what the balance is through those moments. I understand. I totally understand that. So Kate does go to sing and it seems like it's going well and then she sees this mother

and daughter, black woman and her daughter. This is the beautiful montage that you were talking about earlier. This is the beautiful montage that is happening where we hear summertime going on. And so we don't hear Kate actually singing. We hear summertime, we hear young Kate and we see her seeing this mother and daughter. The mom just sort of smiling at her daughter. She's dancing and listening to the music and whatnot. And you see Kate's like, I can't take this, right?

So she says I got to get out of there. She walks out. And real quick on that montage, that's Hannah singing, right? It is Hannah singing. It is. Really beautiful. She has a really gorgeous voice. It was lovely.

All three Kate's. Yeah. Or two kids. All three generations. Yeah, yeah. They sing. And so she decides to go for a walk and then she comes upon a buffet. Yeah.

And she's like, you know what, I'm going to go eat, right? And it's interesting because while I don't have the same issues as Kate with regards, but far be it for me to say that I have never emotionally ate. And it's interesting how it is. It's just all of a sudden you're like, it will make me feel better. I don't have to think if I just keep putting something in my mom. I have, there have been moments of my life where I, in my head, essentially say, I'm going to go use ice cream.

Like, some would be like, I'm going to go use a little cocaine. Like, I'm going to go use ice cream. Sure. I'm going to eat a pine ice cream. Yeah. That's what I'm going to do. Hands down. Yeah.

And so you see it filling up that plate. Now, it's interesting because there's two different plates that she had one plate. That was like that. And then it cuts to another plate in which I'm wondering, did she eat the first plate? Or is one plate supposed to be the same plate? And she ultimately walks away. I think she, I think one plate was supposed to be. I agree.

I agree. She ultimately winds up walking away from the plate. Meanwhile, Tobias realizes that this bathtub, he's sitting at home by himself. You see him walk by the bathtub with the shower curtain. Ken does some gorgeous things here because we flash back a couple of times to 12 hours prior and sort of like Kate in the bathroom at one point in time, reaching for like the shower, and it falling down and it's quiet when it happens. And then you see Toby coming into the bathroom a little bit later on and sort of comforting

I actually noticed it was a really quiet episode. Yes, I have that written there as far as score goes. Yes. There was a lot of silence in the house post this event. Yeah. Which makes sense and it was very, very poignant, right? So he's at home by himself and he realizes, how do you realize that the thing is supposed to be coming to the house, the tub thing? I get a...

I walk out to the garbage cans and I... A classic, like, male response to the situation, I guess I'm going to throw away this... this shower curtain yeah and this shower ride i blame you shower up the curtain instead of fixing it yeah throws it away and gets a notification ding your baby bath will be delivered tomorrow yeah and you're like and he goes off damn it this last thing that i need to come to the crib yeah so you go to the distro center of where it is and whatnot i see that i've got this thing coming yeah i need to intercept this package before it gets to my house my wife's had it really bad and the guys like i don't know what to tell you man like i don't think it's it's here we haven't

sent it out yet and says, I can't help you. And this is a really, I'm curious, how many times you got a chance to do this in terms of the balance of it all? Because you can't come across, like, I'm about to bash your mother-knows-in, but also, I'm a man who needs something very much. And I am big. Yeah, I need you to do this. You know what I'm saying?

So, like, how many different takes do we go? And did we ever go hotter? Did we ever go under? We didn't do that too many takes, but, but. I think the last one, Ken, was like, and just do like a super hot one. Okay. So we have it.

Okay. I think we both knew that that was just to see it. Sure. Just deliver it. Because we weren't going to use it. Right. Yeah, yeah. But the guy was cool.

You wound up walking through and you can't find the thing. And then it's just like, God, man, I'm going to go home. This thing is going to be delivered. It's going to bring up so much. And I'm always like the banging on the steering wheel is such a, is an actor thing. That we all have to do at one point in time. And when you're younger, you'll do it with a fist.

If he was older, and he was with an open hand. And I say this because you will jack your fist up. So dead. And maybe this is a dude thing? I was like, yeah. No, but guess who did the fist on the first take? You did? Yeah, yeah.

Which is why I was hitting it with open hands because my hand's like, ouchy, out. also we were just talking with what were talking about oh we were on that radio show the other day we were all doing an interview and they were asking have you ever seen a moment that you wish you could do better sure and that was it really yeah I was like yeah also the way that they edited it yeah was I didn't know it was going to be edited like a joke because the way they edited it was like oh this guy has been standing there watching me do this and I didn't play it that way right and I wish I had to leaned into that. But I think, I think it played great. I agree. I think it played fine. I think it played fine. I'm just like, if you want to know, I saw a moment. And I was like, this is what I would have done different. Okay. Fair enough. Respect that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was cool because then you're like, you, like, you, uh, do you, uh, but my sister's about to have a baby? And like, do you like, do you like? Do you like her? I love that the writers put that like, do you like her? Do you like her?

Yeah. Does he answer? Does he just kind of. He was like, he's like, uh, you know. Whether Whether you like her or not, man. Give, give her thing. Give her. Baby Bath. It's really nice. It fits in most tubs, I guess. Yeah. It's great. And then he gives a, I mean, he's a, let's, let's shout him out because I'm sure he's on our, on our sheet here. Jason Rogel.

Jason Rogel, right? Carl. Carl, I'm a large and powerful man. And then at the end, yeah, he delivers that really nice. I'm sorry if something happened. Yeah. Which is about all you can say is a stranger. Thanks.

Yeah. So you go to pick up your, your bride to be, because you said that you were going to pick her up from her music gig. And she's not there. And she's not there. And it's interesting because I saw this from both perspective simultaneously of her just needing a moment, leaving the two, the mom and the daughter that she had seen. And then remembering that you said that you were going to go get her knowing that your beloved just had a miscarriage and you wonder what her state of mind is and not being able to find her both of those things, right? And so you wind up trying to find her you can't find her you guys you call she doesn't answer quick shout out to her

band leader jason michael snow big broadway guy the guy who's their piano player yeah oh cool shout out to him and you guys don't reconvene until you get back to the house and you're like where were you and she's like i took a walk and that feels like completely and totally satisfactory from her perspective but you're like yo yeah i'm sitting here wondering where you are You're not knowing anything, you know? It's in those moments in which you decide not to answer because you need time to yourself. Yeah. Like I understood her not answering and I understood him being upset for her not answering

and not letting him know what she was. Yeah. I mean, I understood her not answering that call. My call. Yeah. The mom call. But it's a different thing if you're just wandering downtown Los Angeles or wherever you are. Yeah.

At least to like, I love you. I'm okay. really want to talk about anything right now but i'm walking home i left yeah all good yeah just to check in but it it sort of sets the table for for we were talking about earlier than having it out and you you should take this because you you kind of went through the whole thing talk to me about this scene as we talked about or or we'll talk about with chrissey fights fights between toby and kate were hard for yeah chris and chris yeah uncomfortable Let's, and because, because there's no distinction for Chrissy almost, you know, like, when she feels it, it's immediate.

It is, yeah. And so when I get to saying hurtful things, and I see it being so effective, it's very painful. Yeah. And this particular conversation was also, like you were talking about, that tricky balance of, I need to express myself here. Yeah. But I also know that you've been through a lot in the last 12 hours. Yeah. We've had, I had little moments on the show that had switches, but this was, this episode

was like a big dramatic kind of turn for Toby, you know, as far as like, no, no, no, this is where I stand. Right. This is who I am. Right. And it's not all, it's not all levity. Yeah, it's not all hooty and the blowfish dancing around the coffee shop. Yeah.

You have moments like that throughout. I think this is one of the strongest ones. Like, Toby has this ability to articulate what he's feeling in the moment. Yeah. That I think most of us as grown as people hope to be able to achieve. Yeah. The writers gave him that. Yes.

Yeah. Yes, because, like, you know, because this is the moment, again, when she circles down. And you're, like, you're acting like, we went through something. Like, it was my body. Kate says, like, this is something that I went through. And you're like, look, I recognize it was your body. And I recognize this. But, like, to say that I wasn't a part of this,

that something didn't. I'm feeling sad, too. So whether or not it happens to my body, like, you have to be okay with me being sad too and that I cared. And I continue to care. Yeah. We'll be right back with more.

That was us. Wait, I didn't get charged for my donut. It was free with this Tim's rewards points. I think I just stole it. I'm a donut. Steeler. Ooh. Earn points so fast, it'll seem too good to be true.

Plus, join Tim's rewards today and get enough points for a free donut, drink, or timbits. With 800 points after registration, activation, and first purchase of a dollar or more. See the Tim's app for details at participating in restaurants in Canada for a limited time. Life can pull us in so many directions. Kind of like our characters on This Is Us. And when things get hectic, finding time for yourself isn't always easy. That's why we love Peloton. Peloton has the convenient and varied instruction we all need to stay on track.

You can find whatever you're looking for. If I want to focus on upper body, there's upper body workouts, there's glutes and legs workouts, there's core workouts, right? You got boot camps, you have runs, you have hikes, biking, whatever it is, is there. Whether you're into Pilates, boxing, marathon, prep, or just need a good stretch or meditation session, Peloton has a class for you. They've got something for every vibe. every goal, and all three of us look for different things in a workout, but we can always find it on Peloton.

Some days, I want to challenge myself with a tough boot camp. Other days, I just need a 10-minute walk or a calming meditation. Pelotan gives you the ability to choose what you need, whether you're pushing yourself or taking it easy. And let's not forget the instructors. They are the best motivators out there. It's fun to imagine which instructors our characters would connect with. like Randall, who's always pushing himself, would probably love someone like Robin Arson, while Rebecca might go for a more soulful yoga session with Aditi Shah. Allow me to give a special shout out to my girl, Jess Sims for the dope Sims 60

that she always brings the pain on, Adrian Williams with the Thunder 45. I love you guys. And the class lengths are perfect. Whether you've got 20 minutes between meetings or just enough time to sneak in a quick workout while the kids are napping, Peloton fits right into your day. It's all about finding your push and your power, no matter what season of your life you're in. And with Peloton, you've got the variety and motivation to do it all.

Find your push, find your power with Peloton at OnePelaton.com. And so it ends, not resolved, right? still sort of dangling. That's at the end of it. And we go to the next morning and Toby's already out of the house and he's left a note for Kate saying, need some air, be right back, something like that. And this is when we dovetail to the past and Kate and Rebecca just had this sort of beautiful explanation about like what parenthood is and sort of like holding your arms open for your child to walk into if and when they need them, etc. And there's a knock at the door and you think Toby may have left his key

and he's coming back, and you open the door. And this was one of the biggest cries Brown has had in this day. When my mama comes watching through the door. This was me at the airport. This is me at the airport. Eating my lounge food. Crying.

Is that? Is that Chris Sullivan from This Is Us crying? Watching This Is Us? Crying. Crying? Eating airport, orange chicken? listen sure it sure is a lot of mistakes were happening in that story mandy is it was so beautiful because it was so simple like it wasn't like you needed to ask what she needed because she called you on the phone

earlier i should say and said mama lost the baby and you kept that as much like i can't talk about too much more i love you i'll talk to you later boom right and it's just like rebecca just said i'm getting on on the damn plane yeah and making the moves and opening the door and you open the door and you just open your arms and you just hold your bed. And she just crumbles. Melt. Yeah. I know the microphone's blocking my foot.

She just melts. It touched me. It touched me too. To my core. Yeah. So we move forward then from there and just her sort of talking, Kate talking to you about it and how she's feeling. And don't let me jump over anything. Like I feel like I took this away.

this away from Toby, like, and you talk about, you talk about Kyle and what it was like to live through that loss and how the doctors ask you, I've cut, let me talk about it. I'm talking about this thing that you did. No, no, I, no, she just, she implores Kate to share her grief with Toby because she did not share her grief with Jack for a long time. And she said, you know, it came out. And it came out sideways. Like I found myself at the grocery store, like having a meltdown over yellow onions because I wanted to make your dad a pot roast. The meltdown was good.

That was good. Yeah, it was just like, she was like, you have to share your grief because basically it's, it's not just your grief. It's his grief too. And you guys have to, you know, have that connection and be in community with each other about what has just happened. And I thought it was just, yeah, it was a, it was an. Interesting. I mean, this whole episode you're really seeing, obviously, it's Toby and Kate,

but you're really getting an inside glimpse into Rebecca and Kate's relationship, which we explore so extensively over the course of the series. And it's like you're starting to just have more colored in for you about the trials and tribulations of a mother, like you said, just trying her level best. She just is trying to be there for her daughter at every turn. And really, that's what that entire sort of soliloquy in the hospital was. Like, we just never got there. Like, calling a spade a spade, like, it was always easy with your brothers. But you and I, like, no matter what, we just, like, we just can't connect. There's always something in between us.

But, like, as your mom, I'm always going to be there. Like, my job is not to judge that is just to be there with my arms open. And I think, again, like, as a parent to a daughter now, It's just, I was like, wow, it just has me thinking about mother-daughter relationships in a very, you know, profound way that I just haven't been able to, you know, wrap my head around yet. They're different, right? Oh, God, yes. Like, and something in my head tells me they shouldn't be. They different being mother-daughter versus mother-son or what's the they different?

Being like, I feel a different type of relationship with bear that I do with Ifa. Yeah. And neither is better or worse. Yeah. But it's just, I don't know, it's just different. Yeah. So this is interesting. You're one of the few, you guys are two of the few people that I have in like friend groups that have at least one of each.

A lot of my friends, we either have all boys or all girls, right? Which is sort of interesting in terms of how we work through the world as parents. But I'll say just as two boys that you have, they're so different. Sure. They're like completely their own sort of thing. And I don't have the little girl to sort of compare to this. You're going to be Uncle Sterling. I'll be Uncle Sterling.

But so from that conversation that you have, she does have a conversation with Toby. They come together and they both talk about how they want to try again. Like not immediately, but they're going to and they're not going to let this break them. Yeah. I feel like something I edited out of this episode, because when Toby comes in, he does not look happy to see you. Yeah. And I feel like there was a short scene in this where it was like Toby had like teen kated up a little bit because it's something that she said to him about not wanting to talk to you about it. Gosh, that feels vaguely familiar.

Right? About like, do you want me to come? No, no, no, don't come. And then you come anyway. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Because like I came against your wishes. Yeah, yeah. It might be wrong.

but I come in with a weird mood. And I was like, either that's a wrong choice, Chris? No. But I also think like you came back, you needed some space to sort of clear your head so you didn't bring that energy to your lady. And you're expecting to have a moment alone with her. And you're like, oh, your mom's here? Sure, sure, sure.

Well, it totally works. But I do feel there's something about that. It made me flash on something. Yeah. You might be right, because that does ring a bell a little bit. There were, Rebecca and Toby had, you know, they had their moments. Sure. Did you?

So, yeah. I mean, it was just like. It wasn't unfriendly, but I think in the beginning initially, like, Rebecca was slightly dubious earlier on. Okay. Of Toby. Rightly so. Rightly so.

And Toby was a little dubious of Rebecca. Yeah. Because Kate essentially told him to be. They had a complicated, you know, they had a complicated relationship. So I feel like there is something about. what you say that does feel plausible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always so respectful, though.

I never saw him, like, do anything. No, no, not disrespectful, and he has great boundaries and he sticks up for his lady. There's a whole thing like, whatever you're trying to do, I'm team Kate. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing that I remember from that moment, because I'm always wondering if Rebecca will read the room based upon previous encounters with Kate, right? And so as soon as you come in, she's like, I'm going to go around the corner to that

coffee place because she knows these two people need to have a conversation right and what I remember then and filling in any gaps or whatnot you guys said like we will try again not immediately but we will and you see her smile you see you smile we go out to the shower curtain we pick it out of the trash and I was wondering should we rinse this um but they just hang it right I mean technically it's a shower curtain so it will get rinsed it will get rinsed I suppose they're they're hanging it up side side note me and shower curtains that thing when the shower curtain sucks into your body yeah i have no more shower curtains in my house yeah but that's because i've reached a place in my life where i can afford not to have shower curtains in my house you have a glass that's sticking on to my body thing

where i have to keep pushing it off to wash yeah yeah yeah not my favorite thank you all it also means that you have great water pressure creating that vacuum to pull the this is true there are things to be grateful for that's true amen so that's the end that'll make the reach tread segment. That's the end of that episode with, again, cutting back to the final home video thing about we're about to see number three begin his walking journey. Something tells me, in real life, Randall would have walked first. Randall probably would have walked first. 100%. And then taught the other two how to do it. Possibly.

So we're going to take a little break, but when we come back, we actually have Chrissy here to chat with us a bit about this particular episode. We picked her brain a bit. So we'll be back with some Chrissy and more. That was us. Let's do it. Okay, we're discussing episode 209, also entitled Number 2. And as a special guest, this episode focuses on Kate. And we have in the house, Chrissy Metz.

Here you are. Here you are. Okay, so we're talking about episode 209. And it's sort of the end of 208, we see Kevin come see Randall. And Kevin's about to tell something to his brother. And we think he's about to say something about what's going on in his life. And Randall says to him, oh, man, I already know Kate lost the baby. And I'm curious because there's been a whole buildup to this point of like how you've actually told Toby,

please don't get your hopes up about this. Like, I'm pregnant, but like it's a geriatric pregnancy. We don't know how it's going to go. So until this child is actually out of my body. living in the world, I kind of need you to keep it now. And he hooty and the blowfished it. And then he hooty and the blowfished it. And there was all this excitement, enthusiasm.

And then the way they told Kevin as well. Remember with the, the, um, the sweatshirties. Oh, yeah. That was good times. Question to you in terms of your recollection, if you can make yourself go back in time. Like, just sort of playing that sense of loss of not having to have the pregnancy go to fruition.

Do you have any sort of memory of what it was like going through? Yeah, well, first of all, a lot of people have approached me about this particular topic. Yeah. Because it's not really talked about and not the way that we did it. Sure. And I think it was very real. And I think a lot of women have this sense of responsibility like, oh, I'm the one carrying the child. Like something is wrong with me if something goes wrong.

And I think that's a lot of what Kate felt like. Her weight and her weight has been her issue all her life. And so, like, could this have been prevent? and like if they if she was thinner sooner could this have been a better pregnancy like and then disappointing her husband and who knows what's going to happen and how will the baby you know how is the baby's health like all all of those things that circle around anybody's head whether they're overweight or considered geriatric or not I think geriatric is 35 or over we need a rebranding we need a rebranding it needs a real reprint that in the BMI but anyway

I think now they call it advanced maternal age. Do they? Okay. Still, we need a rebranding. We need a rebranding. So if we could do that, guys. It's one of those things that I think every woman goes through, and I've obviously never been pregnant.

Yeah. But what I sort of leaned into was a real thought of, like, what if I do want to have a child and, like, how scary that would be if I'm too old now, or I'm, I put my body in a position to not have the most healthy baby and, like, really internalizing that. that and making it my own fault, you know, I think that is a really real thing. And maybe for so long I was like, oh, I wouldn't want children. Yeah. But not having the option is another story. A completely different story. And that's after like all the IVF and everything else that Kate went through. Yeah. And all those, you know, I have so many friends who have gone through that and

have not had luck and they've spent thousands of dollars. Like, you know, and it's emotional. It's expensive, it's taxing on your body, you know, it's a lot. So all of those things definitely came into play. And then obviously playing the miscarriage is like, I, one of my sisters had a miscarriage and she's never talked about it. But after the episode, she was able to, you know, talk to me about it. Wow. Yeah. And I was like, wow, like, this is amazing. And we're talking my own family, you know? So, yeah, it really made, I think, an impact on so many people. And whether you wanted children or had one or didn't or, you know, it was really hard to play, though. Yeah. I have a dear friend, and it came out around this episode and around the same time I did a reading of a podcast from the New York Times when they talk about, like, true love stories.

Oh, modern love. Yeah. And it was a modern love on a woman who had had a miscarriage. And I don't know. I don't know, like they chose my voice for this thing because maybe it's from the husband's perspective. I can't remember exactly. But a female friend of mine reached out to me and she wound up telling me, who has two children, and the way her pregnancies went were miscarriage, child, miscarriage, child, miscarriage. And she's like how difficult and the shame that she felt for herself is like, is something wrong with me, exactly what you're talking about. But like in terms of how often it is represented and how oftentimes that shame keeps you from putting it out into the world,

but then just seeing that somebody else went through it and that it wasn't just me that this is something that has. I have to say before, if anything, like what we discovered in the process of preparing for the episode, I think there's one in ten pregnancies or a miscarriage. One in four? One of four? It's even more.

Yeah, before the, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's so much more common than is depicted in the world, is talked about, there is still so much stigma around it, like you said, the shame that I think women feel. There's no, it doesn't feel like anyone's educated on how to talk about it. It doesn't feel like there's a good time to talk about, like to talk about it or the possibility of it or the reality that it is a possibility. Yeah. And to be able to have this context to tell it, to talk about.

about it through the TV show. Yeah. Is I think what our show does a lot, actually, is give people the context to talk about hard things. Sure. And the permission. Yeah. Like, oh, well, do you know what Kate went through? Yeah. It definitely gives you like a little blueprint of sort. Yeah.

There's so much to dive into, not just with this episode, but like with every, the entire arc of your character. I really hope that you can come back and chat with us more. I love to. We love you, Chris. I love you. I love you. All right.

How's that for that was us? Bye. Bye. Welcome to the retread, brought to you by Peloton. Find your push, find your power with Peloton. Yeah. This retread, what we talk about? We talked to Chrissy.

She came back. She came back, which was always a pleasure. Justin hasn't been once. Not once, but Chrissy's been twice. That's true. We talked about the miscarriage of the baby, obviously. That's very difficult. We talked about the incorrect.

way to clean up dog pee. We did. We did. We did. Just did not make sense. You do not need to dab your dog. We do need to take that up with Ken Olin. Probably.

Because he did direct this episode and let that slide. Missed that one. And all three episodes, by the way. We also told Chris Ronald of admitting that there was a scene that Key would have redone, which was the banging on the car horn. Yeah, on the steering wheel. Finally found a mistake. Yeah.

Well, you also made the mistake of punching with your fist. That's right. wheel at first before you realize like you got to open call in general when you get mad just leave your car alone the car didn't do it we're banging on it it's not that thing we saw a couple sort of like going through something and finding their way back to each other i think it's really lovely and not and not just a couple but a mother and a daughter that's right sort of from the past having a little bit of friction and then finding one of my favorite moments of mandy moore walking through the door to hug her child in her time of need melting my heart that was this week's retread with peloton find

your push, find your power with Peloton. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.