That Was Us - Jack and Rebecca Fall In Love | "Light and Shadows" (410)

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 10: Light and Shadows. Randall supports Rebecca as she is faced with a difficult truth at her doctor’s appointment, Kate and Toby acknowledge the growing distance between them, and Kevin takes a woman on an elaborate first date. In the past, Jack and Rebecca finally say, “I love you.” Plus, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling talk about relationships, passion vs. stability, long term love, and more! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Brought to you by Bombas, One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item Donated Head over to https://Bombas.com and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more, to claim, visit https://www.article.com/twu and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout - Help protect your home systems – and your wallet – with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just $4.99 a month. Go to https://HomeServe.com to find the plan that’s right for you. - Restore your peace of mind with Harbor: the only baby monitor designed to never fail you. Use code TWU or go to https://Harbor.co/TWU for $50 off ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:22:39 Fan Segment 01:32:27 Outro Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards #thisisus #thatwasus Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we are diving into season four, episode 10, light and shadows. Randall supports Rebecca as she is faced with a difficult truth at her doctor's appointment. Kate and Toby acknowledged the growing distance between them, and Kevin takes a woman on an elaborate first date. In the past, Jack and Rebecca finally say, I love you. Hello, friends. What's going on again? How are you doing today? I'm doing all right.

How are you doing, Annie Moore? I'm okay. You look good. I do. You look sophisticated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The earth tones are rocking. You know, it's fall. It's fall.

I made it into the fall palette this morning as I was getting dressed in the five minutes that I had before I had to race out the door. I'm feeling it. You're looking grown. Thank you. What's this look we got going over here? It feels like retired soccer. hooligan, right? I love it.

You look good. You're a lot, kind of geese. You know, you know what I mean? Chris can pull off every, you truly, anything. It's all character work. No. It's always working on something. As, as, who said it, RuPaul, you're born naked, the rest is drag.

Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? I'm all over the place, you guys. I feel, I feel chaotic. Yeah. You do? Talk to us about it. I just feel exhausted.

You just, you've been back. The shift of the, the, you know. the shift of the season maybe, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. The children, the children seem to, seem to perfectly coordinate their time being awake in the middle of the night. You know what I mean? Like, Eiffel will go, like, have a hard time from two to three.

And then just as she's, like, gone down. Gone down at, like, 315 bear. Bears like, dad! Yeah. And it's, it's beginning to wear. It's beginning to wear, yeah. That's reminiscent of, that would be a good segue if we were talking about episode. 4-11, 12, and 13.

But we're talking about 4-10. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there for sure. We'll slow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry, man. I feel the exhaustion. I think it's like the shifting of the seasons and also being a parent with small children. If you even attempt to have like the tiniest bit of a social life and you stay up past your bedtime, which I did last night. Yeah, which is like 9. It's like, forget it. All bets are off. You're just like, I'm like, oh.

Yeah. But then I get in the car and I know I'm coming here. Exactly. And I really look forward to sitting down with you guys. And I always leave with like the biggest smile on my face. Like, that was the best day. I love my friends. It's not so bad.

It's not so bad. Good way to spend some time. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So we can talk about this episode? Let's talk about it. Can I interject with like, so Yasu Tanita?

Yes. Was our DP is working with Sterling on Paradise. Correct. He basically like, he should. shot our entire show. The entire show. He, he, it's, it's his vision, the handheld sort of, like, intimacy that, like, I think our show is really steeped in.

Yes. That's all Yasu and his, like, his love language and brainchild. And, and this was Yasu's first episode as a director. That is correct. Has he directed, he directed one episode, I believe, in season six as well? Did he do two total? I think it was just two. I think it was just two, but this was his first.

Yeah. So I love that, like, there were some sort of, like, vignettes that felt very, like, DP as a director's choice, right? Like, the soft focus, like, kind of morphing into, like, putting us in focus, like, some of those scenes between, like, you and me and John and the doctor's office and stuff like that. Yeah. And the play on Shadow and Light for, you know, Toby and Kate's storyline, like, all of it. It was really beautiful and sort of like the going, the intention, like how intentional he was sort of going back and forth like between the different time periods. Like Jack and Rebecca as a young couple versus Rebecca like in the mirror at the end as, you know, an older woman sort of grappling with where her life is headed. And it just like it was, it struck me as like, oh, this is a lot of times we have a director that will just come in for an episode.

or it's Ken Olin who directed like 30-some-odd episodes of the show. And like, you know, we're moving at quite a clip. We did 18 episodes, which is like unheard of now for a show that would be on like a streaming network or whatnot. So it's like you just keep going. And not that things are necessarily like paint by numbers, but it was interesting to sort of notice how, like, I don't know, it just this episode felt different in that sense.

I was like, oh, this is, someone, like, really took some, like, careful consideration and made some real choices that you don't often see, I feel like, in some of our episodes. That would be hard to communicate between a guest director and the director of photography, maybe. Sure. Something that only he could do. And Yasu has opinions, you know what I mean? So, like, he has strong opinions, so it's not, I don't know if he was always, like, you know, the collaborator to, like, let a guest director come in and be like, so I have this idea about the lighting. Like, that's his territory. And to be honest, like, when you are a guest director, it's sort of like you're stepping into a very well-oiled machine.

So I think there has to be some deference to, like, the crew and how things are sort of run there. So it would be more challenging to sort of come in with like, so I have this idea with like light and shadow and plenty, you know. Maybe it wouldn't have gone over well. But because it was Yasu's episode, he was able to do it and I thought it was really beautiful. Absolutely. We just got a message from our producer, Sam, that said three episodes. Oh, three. He did three. Four, one episode in four, five, and six. Oh, wow. I forget what, five.

Each time, more and more self-deprecating, more and more appearing as if he didn't want to be there. That is his... Not even appearing, saying it. Yeah. Like, he's so funny because he will self-deprecate. He will, he'll say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't want it.

You guys, you do your thing. I'll do mine. And it was just, it was always. You're right. I mean, it was always a joy. He's, he's wonderful. He's done all of paradise. I do believe he's doing the pilot for your show, Mandy.

He refuses to do this podcast. Nope. We'll get him in. Yeah. We have to. We'll get him. Yeah. If you know Yasu, clip it.

Clip it. Send this to him. We need you. He is the sweetest, kindest guy. Most soft-spoken. Very soft-s. all spoken, just had a second baby. And what I sort of remember

about this episode is the crew and the crew's reaction to Yasu because Yasu shot a lot. Right? And because he's like he wasn't sure exactly what he wanted and what he didn't want or whatnot. I remember one time towards the end of the episode

I was like, oh Yasu, I'm walking up the steps and there's a shot of my mom and dad and I think you're like coming off of like the past story. I was like, I would probably get that, but don't worry about it. And he's like, Yeah, Stero, that's good. And then the crew is like, oh, fuck. Yeah, like, why are you giving us more work?

It's funny because he is, like, he's a super efficient DP, right? And, like, our camera department, like, everybody just, we, we had this, like, unspoken language between all of us. Like, even as actors, it's like, you'd have James, like, cozy up next to you, you're like, okay, I know what he's shooting. I know where to go, I know. And the way, you know, Yasu had, like, the lights set up and stuff like that. So it was funny that when it came to his episode, he took so much longer. Unencumbered. He would have been so annoyed at the director.

He was taking up so much time. And yet he was like, I'm going to get comfortable here. It was fun. Yeah, it was so fun. Now that there's someone directing and knows what they're doing. Yeah, exactly. Here we go. So should we start post Thanksgiving with Toby and Kate?

Yeah, sure. Because that's kind of where the episode begins. It's a great idea. It is real icy between them. Super ice, you guys. And what I often think, I'm like, before a scene starts and you recognize, like, oh, there's something unspoken between these characters. Like, I'm like, wow, they really flew all the way across the country with this, like, attitude. I just, as a human in a partnership, like, there's no way I would have been able to have felt that and not said something.

Like, can we just break this down? Like, what is going on? So, like, props to Toby for just, like, getting through the travel day before being like, come on. Something's clearly going on. Yeah. And the way it was written is the exact way that I break into it when I, in real life, where I'm just like, hey, so what's going on? And it played out just as it does. Sure.

Nothing. That's a lie. Yeah. You're currently lying. And I know it. Yeah. So can we either talk about it or can you stop acting like that? Yeah, do a better job of pretending.

One or the other. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And she comes out with it, that she's discovered him or discovered something. Lady Kryptonite. Lady Kryptonite. Yeah. Is there a better screen name?

No. Kara. Kara. Okay, Kara. Okay. Apologies. No apologies. And Toby basically is like, nothing is going on.

You can read my phone. Like, I have nothing to hide. You offer to read the phone. That means you're good. Yeah, yeah, totally. You could look to you the whole thing. Take a look. He, in a brief little monologue, manages to make amends, take responsibility, apologize, and I mean, I believed it.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I believed it moving forward. And he basically said, like, I would never look you in the eye and lie to you, which I appreciate it as well. And then they both are sort of like, you just did when you said nothing was wrong and something was, in fact, wrong. But they both are like, it's almost Christmas. Like, it's that joyous time of year. Can we just like, there's so much, let's get past this and just appreciate this Christmas as a family.

But before we get to Christmas, you got, I think young Damon has a birthday coming up, right? Yes. He does. There's a birthday coming up. And Kev and Kate are in the store trying to figure out the theme for what the party's going to be. et cetera, et cetera. And then we'll cross into Kev's storyline in a second. But we're setting up this birthday party.

And I think it's a surprise. Yes. A Jimmy Buffett-themed birthday party. That's right. Of course. You've got to have a shirt for that. And so then we see the party's been set up. And she's gotten all the names of the people from the CrossFit gym, et cetera.

And there's a dude name, was it Kurt? My man, CrossFit Kurt. CrossFit Kurt. CrossFit Kurt. And he's like, yeah, man. Thanks for setting it. It's real cool. And she's like, you know, it's honest.

It's weird because I haven't seen him in a couple of weeks. And she's like, what are you talking about? He goes to the gym every day. He's like, yeah, he must have found a new gym because we haven't seen him for a minute. And so Kate's like, all right, what's popping? The daggers, she, like, the look she gives Dobie at the party as he, like, comes in and they're like, surprise.

And he knew. He knew from jump. He's like, ah, oh, Lucy, you got some spleen. Yeah. Yeah, there was trouble. I will say, I was like, oh, wow, Kate and Toby in this moment have a whole scene with no words. Yeah. There's like shock and surprise.

He looks over at her. Yep. She looks at him. Yeah, it's sort of like, didn't you just tell me you weren't going to lie to me about anything? Yeah, his face changes. He knows exactly what. Technically. Yeah.

It was a lie by omission. Okay, what does that mean? Ah. Because I'm asking on behalf of Tobs. Hey, Siri. What's the definition of a lie? Everyone's listening, their phone just immediately. They're like, oh, dang it.

Intentionally false statement. Okay, so it wasn't a statement. It wasn't a statement. Well, it's a misdirected biomission. For chisel. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, which I think should count.

Like, I don't know. When it is finally... I think we all agree. Yeah. I mean, when it's finally... When it finally is revealed when, you know, the party is done, right? And she's just sort of like, I don't know what's going on. And he's sort of like, you were right.

When I, you know, went to the gym when we got home or whatever, Kara tried to kiss me. Yeah. And I didn't let it happen. I backed away. But it was like, I realized like, okay, I can't be working out here anymore. I can't be around this energy. So I found a new gym and a new place to work out.

And I didn't tell you because it's. it just would be a whole thing. And, you know, I heard that. And I appreciated where he was coming from. But sure, as a partner, it's like you never. It is a clear indication of distance. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, she also said, like, could it be that she was picking up on something that you were putting out? Because, bro, it seems clear as day to me. You don't want to be here. You don't want to be in the crib, right? And he's like, that's not true. But then eventually they wanted to. getting to it and talk to him.

What do you feel? What are you feeling there, Big Toad? Oh, I mean, Toby's, Toby is having a hard time with the, uh, being honest about his, his feelings towards the, you know, current, especially as it, as it relates to Kate's feelings about having a, uh, seeing impaired son. Yeah. And, and he is engaged in a lot of self-pity and he's engaged in a lot of self-pity and he's engaged in a lot of kind of in from an outside perspective a little self-centered thinking like like

your empathy for tobes is is i mean i know i understand it okay but at the same time it's like that's but that's but that's an interesting kind of cross-reference to the reason he's trying to whenever he tried to express it to kate he doesn't feel like he is heard or he is sure or or he's validated in those feelings and so he vents to other people and just so happens the only other people he's around are these people at the gym right um and lady kryptonite um after name yeah and so she'll take you down it's you know it's understandable am i empathetic towards it sure but i also understand the how that could be severely frustrating sure to you know A partner.

Yeah. My thought in sort of like defense of Tobias is I believe that most people, when they see you have a child, expect that the only sort of feeling that you can have is pure joy. Yes. And just there are other thoughts that occupy a new parent's mind an addendum to joy. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. I think we go into this potential experience of parenthood with certain expectations.

Absolutely. And when those expectations aren't met, when we take a little bit of a detour, it is perfectly understandable and allowed for someone to have to mourn... Like, Toby is mourning what he thought his parenthood would look like, what he thought raising his son was going to be. It's different, and it's okay that, you know, he is sad about not being able to show him Star Wars or watch a football game or see the ocean. Like, that's all perfectly understandable that that's his reaction, that sadness and that grief. Whereas Kate may feel that, but also like the joy of motherhood sort of surpasses.

Correct. Do you know what I mean? So it's like both reactions are totally valid. And I think what's tricky in this particular situation is what you just said is that Kate is not, they're not willing to, like, have a conversation and meet each other in the middle about it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of grieving going on. I've had several friends, men, men and women who, you know, that we're told what to expect from from parenthood and kind of almost imposed upon from a societal level. Yeah. That it is supposed to be nothing but joyous and full of all the good feelings. And there's no room for, there's no room to talk about that grief.

Yeah. The death of your old identity. Identity. That your life, your autonomy, your whatever it might be. You know, I've had several friends who are like, you know, people told me that you're just going to fall in love immediately. I'm not in love yet. and I'm worried about that It's so lonely

Yeah it's very lonely Because you can't Who do you talk to about that? Exactly You tell someone you're not You're not in love with your child You love you kid Oh you do

Cool That's cool Yeah yeah yeah me too Of course now Things change You know different seasons And this little blob who has maybe

invaded your space And taking your partner And taking all your partner's time and taking all your partner's focus or whatever the thing is. It sounds like I'm covertly talking about myself, but calling it other people. Yeah. Other people. Yeah. This happens to other people.

Not me. No, I definitely had all the immediate love feelings, but I also had the resentment, the amount of focus that was given, the amount of attention, how alone I felt kind of in the house. Coupled with crippling exhaustion. Yeah, and a pandemic at the time. Yeah. All that. Yeah, everything just rotating in between three rooms for a year.

So I say my words in defense of Tobias, and then in defense of my sister, Kate, is like, I think you can have all those feelings, but I still think you have to be present. Yes. Right? So, like, the idea of removing yourself from the situation as a way of dealing with it, I don't think is ideal. To have the feelings, but to still be there. Yeah. That's, I think, what you're striving for. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Which is where they get to at the end of this episode. We'll be right back with more. That was us. All right, y'all, here's the thing. Bombas is really stepping up their slipper game this year. There's new styles, new textures. They are fluffy. They got suede.

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$50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. So we have a discovery, right? It's so beautiful. So is it Toby kind of like leaves the room? I don't remember why you leave. But Kate is left in the kitchen after this conversation with Jack. And she realizes that. the cute string of pineapple lights that Madison sort of found at the store that kept,

yeah, it all comes back around, sweet Madison, just like saving the day. So they have these like pineapple string lights up. And Kate notices that Jack, baby Jack is looking at them and reaching for them. And she calls Toby into the kitchen and is like, remember when the doctor said that like there's a possibility he might be able to defray. between light and shadow, like, I think he sees these light, and it's like this beautiful moment where Toby realizes that's exactly what he's doing and, like, picks him up and sweet little baby Jack is, like, reaching up above him for the pineapple lights. It's just, it's beautiful. And you're like, oh, everything is going to be okay. Like, here is a moment for this family to, like,

savor together. And it will be the first of many moments like this of like, okay, we'll keep putting one foot in front of the other and figuring out, like, and celebrate these little wins as they come along, which any, like, all of us as parents, you sort of learn to do. Absolutely. I also just, I love shouting out this, these moments as an actor watching Sully with the baby. Before he was a parent. Before he was a parent and, like, kissing him on his forehead or his cheek or something like that.

There's, and it's, shout out to all the parents that allow us to use their children. Yeah, shout out. Because it's like, once we're in it, it's like, somebody else. Well, this is, you're my child now. Yeah, exactly. So I'm going to treat you the way that I'm going to treat my baby. And it's just, it's the best. Yeah, it's such a treat.

Because there's such a difference between when you have the doll and you can't show them. And when you have that living, breathing, and you see that reaching for a thing. A little tiny hand. I know. Yeah. I just kiss you. Yeah, exactly. He was especially delicious.

Yeah. Yeah. He was beautiful. He was cute. Okay. So that's where. Should we go weaving? Kevin, because he sort of like weaved in and out of that storyline.

Start it, started it up. So he is in pursuit of finding wife and mom, right? This is like we're kind of, we've sort of jumped forward in time in the last episode. Yeah. Which we left sort of, this was, we left America waiting with bated breath, like throughout the holiday season. This episode came back, I believe, in January. But he talked about, you know, nine months in the future. his pregnant fiance.

So now we're like all desperately chomping at the bit to figure out who this woman is. It means in a matter of days, he's going to meet this person. And he's like employed a matchmaker. Yeah. To set him up on some dates. The first one is a molecular biologist. That's right.

And he calls it out like, you're too smart for me. Yeah. And she's like, probably, yeah. Yeah. She agrees. The next girl is they're enjoying coffee. And she's like, oh, I love beans from Ethiopia. They're my favorite.

And he's like, right? And she's like, At least Ethiopians are good for something. Just a vocal racist. And he just like, he literally just like, he's like, okay. The look on his face of like grossed out disappointment, he's like, oh. Okay. Just disappointed like a, like a kindergarten teacher.

Right? Yeah. Like how you have to be racist? You ignorant. That's not good. What's the? Kate, you ignorant slut. So then Kev and Kate are shopping for Toby's, for supplies, party supplies,

Hawaiian shirts and whatnot for his surprise party. And they decide to go have a coffee and while they're at the coffee shop. Real quick, rewind back to that, when they're shopping for those Hawaiian shirts. And Madison shows up with the pineapple lights. Yep. I don't want to jump too far into the future. But it's the first nod, like the subtlest nod that our show gives to what is to come. There's something in the way Kevin, like, responds to something she says.

Like, he looks at her for a second with, like, more attention than maybe he has ever before. That's interesting that you noticed that. I didn't. And then they, but the way it's written, they both end up standing next to each other and they agree on how Kate should handle. Lady Kryptonite. Got it, got it. It's like all of a sudden there's like this like little like shift. Like a little bonding moment. Yeah, Kevin has always been like, you're disgusting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't let me see. Or you're annoying. Get away from me. Yeah, you know, whatever the thing is. Right. And then there's this like little turn there. Sure.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. A nod. A nod. A subtle nod. Yeah. So, wait, they're there.

Sorry. And then the coffee shop. At the coffee shop and he's just talking about how he just wants the universe to send him somebody sent he's done with this matchmaker and all of a sudden this like beautiful woman in the coffee shop sort of like turns over and makes eyeballs at him yeah and he's like what and he's like there's no the universe doesn't work that fast doesn't work that maybe and he's like well for me yeah and he just is like you can just tell he's a man on a mission totally he's like I have to find her yeah which I have proposed this theory that I do believe there are men out of

there that get to a certain age and they're just sort of like okay now's the time do you know what I mean sure men that are maybe just like they reach this point in their life where they're like it's time to settle down and it's time to get married and it's time to find a partner like yeah people as if like I don't know I I feel like maybe it's something maybe it's different for men or moment but it's like I was looking for that all along kind of thing really so it's uniquely male this phenomenon Yes, that you're just sort of like, this'll do. You know what I mean? I mean, but that's kind of what he's doing, right?

Like, you're the one that's next to me. Let's do this. Right, right, right. I mean, it's still. Not to make a generalization that that's all men, but I do believe there are certain men up. Yeah, of course. There are certain men out there, I believe, that are just sort of like,

oh, the clock sort of struck whatever, and I'm 50, and this is great. And maybe it's also men of a certain appearance. and a certain financial ability. Maybe, I don't know. People who look like Kevin. Yeah. Who are just like, no, I'm going to do what I want to do for as long as I want to do it. And then.

And when I want to change. Yeah. I'll have that too. Do you know what I mean? There is like, there is a privilege about it of just like how easy he thinks it would be of like, no, I'm, I'm, by the time I'm 40, I want to find the girl and I want to start having a family. It's like, what? Like, don't you think that's what we've all? been doing like we're all we're all slowly but surely trying to get to that and the fact that

he's just sort of like okay and and thinks it's that easy sort of like oh i see this beautiful woman maybe it's her in the coffee shop this is that easy this is um this is sophia bush bush is sweetest can be um the sweet it is uh this is interesting because there she is i think it has been that easy for him like i had you know what i had a friend of mine when i was on army wives oh i love this is he's one of my favorite people um his name is Drew Fuller. I'll mention him by name because he'll love the shoutout. And he was on Charmed when he was younger,

and he was very sort of heart-throbby. He came from modeling and then crossed over into acting or whatnot. And I would talk to him about this, what you're talking about. And I go like, dude, why do you think it's so easy to just go out and be? He's like, you know how girls can, like, sort of go out. And if they want to, like, hook up with a guy, they probably could. Right? And he's like, well, I feel like it's the same way for me.

Like, I'm a handsome guy. You know what I'm saying? And if I want to hook up with somebody, then I probably just will hook up with somebody. And I was like, what a feeling to feel like the hot chick with great power. Do you know what I'm thinking? That's what I'm doing too. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel like there are certain examples in life of men that kind of get to that point.

Like heaven that are like, okay, now's the time. Like I haven't really been looking this whole time, but now I want to like seal the deal. Like George Clooney. Yes. Well, I mean, he ended up with somebody who's absolutely so impressive. I have no idea what his personal life is like, but it seems like he led his whole life like an international man of elegance. And then it was just like, now's the time.

Who's the greatest woman in the world? Because she shall be mine. Bring me her. Yeah. And, you know. Yeah. And he got her. And he got her.

So Kevin and this woman, who we come to find out, is named Lizzie, have just instant palpable chemistry. She's so charming. She's charming. He's charming. It's like, oh, well, maybe he did find his match. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She keeps getting, like, phone calls from her mom.

Just sort of, like, checking in on her while they're on their date. She's, like, furiously texting, and Kevin's like, you can answer. He's like, yeah, she's like, I'm good. It's all good. She winds up telling him that her favorite musician is John Legend, he kind of clacks that. She's in from out of town. She's in from out of town. She's in Chicago.

She's got one day to hang out and that he gets like, ah, well, you know, let's make the most of the day. Yeah, let me give you the quintessential perfect LA Day, right? So they wind up going to the Hollywood Bowl, which is like the spot, right? It's the outdoor amphitheater that everybody comes to perform in. Hollywood and Highland, it's a great spot. It's got it to himself, and they're hanging out,

and then onto the stage walks John Legend. Who is her favorite musician? Her favorite musician. She's like, what is going on? There's a fine line between romance and what in certain 12-step circles in the intimacy department would be called love bombing. Yeah, this is a total love bomb. Which is like a perfect Kevin Pearson move. Yeah.

Which is like, this is way over the top. Over the top, which I think is the point, that he has decided he's going to get married and have kids. How do I get there like? Yeah, how do I get there now? Exactly. He mentions, I don't know if it's earlier or maybe later on in the show, but it'll dovetail into Jack and Rebecca. He talks about how his parents had like this sort of magical love story. He's trying to live up to it.

And he's trying to live up to it. And so it'll be an interesting juxtaposition when we get there. there because it's like not all the glitters is gold like they went through some stuff even before you know what I'm saying they're not going to privy their children to no but but it's it's so interesting that we all try to sort of like live up to something that in our minds is this ideal it's a highlight real you know what I'm saying but we don't actually know the full truth of it right yeah it's funny because like in in the litany of grand gestures by the Pearson men like this is really like takes the cake yeah but in his

mind he's like my dad was a hopeless romantic and so was my mom and like I'm sure in his mind he's like this is something my dad would have done sure had he had the resources and means and connections and whatnot like this is what you do for someone that you're trying to woo which I think is an interesting perspective on it right because from the outside it looks like hopeless romance but again like you're saying like from the inside when we get into the details of of these gestures they're not they don't come

I don't view Jack as a hopeless romantic yeah he seems way more practical than that and there are these moments that arise that become mythical or that become family legend but they're oftentimes out of

like necessity like the like the Thanksgiving hot dog creepy motel example I was thinking of too you know what I mean like where it's like he takes a situation and makes the most of it and makes the most of it versus like he's not concocting these big things.

So he makes the most of what he has with what's available to him. And just he and Kev have different resources available to them at the time. Because if the young lady asked me to take her to L.A., I'm going to take her to L.A. Yeah. You know, that's what he had available and he did it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Whereas Kev's like, oh, I know John Legend.

Yeah. But there was also a quick moment in that coffee shop where she was like, I really want to go to and put my hands in the thing. And he's like, no. And he's like, no. And there's a quick moment in her face, be like, oh, okay. Yeah.

Like, yeah. But it's what I, that's what I want. Yeah, that's my L.A. day. Yeah, stupid idea. I got a better idea. And it's just like, okay, all right. That is so Kevin. And the difference, I guess, is like,

Jack in his, in the way he's taking care of people. Yeah. is consider, like, really considering people. Yeah. Like, really taking people into consideration. Versus this love bomb of, like, what's the most extravagant? You feel like Kev's taking himself primarily into consideration in terms of, like, how great can I be? There is a selfishness degree to it.

There is. I mean, it all kind of, hey, answer you. I'll do the thing. Yeah, I'll talk to her. I'll talk to her. Right. You know, like, this whole thing of like, look what I can do. Yeah.

You know, like. Yeah. Yeah, Mickey, I guess. It's showing off. It's showboating. Right. You know, versus like, yeah, this is meaningful, maybe, to this person because what the fuck is happening?

Right. But. And it all kind of eventually reveals itself that she, in fact, has not been texting and fielding calls from her mother. After they kiss. Oh, sorry. They do kiss. They do kiss.

And she pulls away and admits, like, that Kevin was her whole past. and that she is in fact married. And that was her husband who's been, like, texting and calling. And this just, like, she never in her wildest dreams, imagine she'd ever meet Kevin Pearson. And then she saw him at the coffee shop and she's like, oh, I see how far I can take this kind of thing. Instantly sort of regrets the kiss and the fact that, like, you know, she sort of led him on for the whole day. Yeah. It's a little heartbreak.

My man, it's sad-od. Wait, I'm going to play a game here because I don't want to find out that you guys routinely have key parties or anything out of Ice Storm, but this is where you find out. But celebrity crush? Is there a crush that has been professed to your husband or wife? Well, you know mine was Donald Glover. I do know yours is Donald Glover. I didn't know if we set it on air or not.

I wanted to have it out loud. Yeah. You've asked before, and I've always blank when you ask. And then I'm at home, and I'm like, oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, Oscar Isaac, too. Yeah, he's, yeah. Oscar Isaac. You like, you like a scruffy.

I do like a scruffy, scruff or son. You got a little scruffy man at the crib. Oh, I do. I like scruff. Yeah, I, I like, funny. Okay. Like, funny, really. Yes.

Like Kristen Wake? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Maya Rudolph. Oh, yeah. Rudolph is great. Rudolph. She's, yeah.

She ain't a red nose, right? Yeah, I don't know. SKV? Well, I mean, I told Sully when I was a kid, it was Dolly Parton. Yeah, but I mean, like, right now, 2025. Still, Dolly Parts. Like, people, because mine is a talent thing as well. Yeah.

So, like, my wife will always be like, you know, I was like, if me and Merrill had the opportunity, would you be okay? And she's like, are you serious? I'm like, kind of. Yeah, no. You know what I'm saying? I just remembered who, because I saw someone, I'm like, if Sterling ever asked again, I'd say that person. Who is it? Do a Lipa.

Oh, yeah. Every time I see her, I'm like, Mother of God. Yeah. And then talented and then also, like, incredibly smart. And funny. And funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's funny too.

Her podcast is great. Okay, okay, okay. All right. That's good. So, yeah. Merrill? Just Merrill? Come on, SKB.

I mean, Merrill's the epitome of, like, I've actually been watching only murders. And she's so good on it. Which is a show that consistently makes me laugh out loud. Very funny. In terms of like a lot of half hours that have skewed towards like a sort of like, Martin Short will sneak up on you. Martin Short is a beast. He sneaks up in a way of all time ever.

Before he does like a live that is so good. Okay, anyway. But watching her on that show, like in how she does, she'll throw in an accent for no reason at all whatsoever. But it's always fucking. Perfect. It's like whatever the accident is. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

She seems like she's having a lot of fun, too. There is, there's an S&L sketch, and then we'll get back to our show, where Abby Elliott plays Meryl Streep, and she joins the ice capades, right? And Merrill Street is like, Merrill Street joins the ice capades after you. And she's, like, flawlessly doing, like, these triple lindies and quadruple luts or whatnot. And then they cut to a close-up of Abby Elliott, and she just, like, lands it. And she goes, I'm just having fun. I can't. I got to watch that.

It's like my favorite skit. And Ryan does that to me all the time. He's just like, Sterling, how do you do? He's just having fun. It's my favorite thing in the world. I just watched a couple nights ago, Rachel and I got to sit down and watch the John Candy documentary. Oh, was it good? How that is?

It's incredible. Oh, I love him so deeply. It's called I Like Me. Yes. And it's on Amazon Prime. Okay. And I'm getting around, like, one of my old, like, childhood crush is Catherine O'Hara. Oh, God.

Come on, man. She pops up, obviously, in the documentary, a lot. But, yeah, check out the documentary. Oh, I want to watch it. It is incredible. As heartwarming as the Charlie Sheen documentary. Far more heartwarming. Different vibe.

Far less. Yeah, far less tiger blood. Yeah, far less prostitutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's an even, he's an even greater man than you think. Really? Yeah. Okay.

Okay, I'm going to check it out. Yeah. Really good. Is that the end? Does Kev do anything else at the end of that storyline with him and Lizzie? I think that's it. Well, he goes to do his reshoots for the M Night Shyamalan movie. That's right.

Thank you. And he's talking to the sweet, like, base camp, Pierre, who's walking him to work. Who has to listen to him, complain about just like, well, you know, I'm just, like, going to focus on me now and focus on work. now and focus on work and blah, blah, blah, and like... Maybe that love story wasn't meant to be. Something about... Correct. Like, he's just feeling down on himself.

And then hands the PA, his phone, which I'm like, that's a move. Yeah. Here, hold this. Hold this. I got to focus. Yeah, I got to focus. I'm like, leave your phone in your trailer then, man. Or put it on your chair, friend.

Yeah. This poor guy task with, like, holding this guy's phone. Anyway. And as he, like, leaves, we zoom in on the phone. Sophie is calling him. So it's like, da, da, what is it meme? But that is the end of that storyline. That's it.

Oh, man. She just keeps coming. Oh, Sophie just keeps on coming. You never know if it's going to be heard. Just had to check if Mystic River was still going to be on. There you go. Should we jump to Jack and Rebecca in the past? Let's do that.

Let's do that. So we're kind of picking up from Jack being a bit tipsy from the golf game with Rebecca's father. And she's driving him home. and she is just trying to figure out, like, what happened between you and my dad? Like, my dad seemed a little frustrated and weird, and, like, I feel like I interrupted you guys. You guys were in the middle of something, and he's- You know what you interrupted? You interrupted, like, say it again. Yeah, about them about to fight.

Yeah, you didn't interrupt. You saved the day. But she's like, you know, no harm, no foul. Like, maybe we can, you guys can, like, make amends and find a way to, like, come together on Saturday night, which was like his big birthday party. My mom is throwing for him. For your dad, right. Yeah, yeah.

And he was like, I don't remember that, but okay. Can I tell you something? I don't remember Jack's living situation. I don't think it was ever really talked about until this episode. I was like, yo, were you living in my dad's building in Philly? I was like. Yeah, pretty much, right? Yeah.

Yeah. It was sketch. Yeah. I didn't, I was like, okay. Yeah, she drops him off and she's like, are you sure you don't want to stay in my apartment? He's like, I've been staying there a lot, and she's like, I know, but like, I know you don't love it here. And he's like, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then that is the first Joni Mitchell needle drop, which I loved, like them playing California.

And it sort of, again, like, then focuses, does the soft out of focus into like the hard focus of us sitting in the waiting room, which we'll wait to jump into. I guess we can finish this whole storyline. line. Jack and Rebecca, it's now another night. I don't know if it's the next night. It doesn't really say, but they're out to dinner. They're eating burgers. And Jack is like unceremoniously quiet. We see a little glimpse of him in the place. I think is he going over bills or like looking at things before that date happens. I think. Yeah. He's not himself. He's in his head. And Rebecca's sort of doing all the talking about how crazy her mom is driving her about this silly birthday party for her dad and blah, blah, blah, blah. And Jack, like, kind of out of the blue

sort of starts to break up with her. Yeah. And basically tells her, like, you know, I just, I can't, like, I can't even afford to tip on this meal. Can't throw a fourth of pepperoni on the pizza. Yeah. Sorry, they're not eating burgers or eating pizza, right? And just sort of like, we're from two totally different worlds. You eat at a country club? Like, I'm so inherently uncomfortable there. This is just not, like, it's been fun, but like, what are we really doing? We're just, you know, prolonging the inevitable. We're not supposed to be together.

And I think Rebecca is really taken aback. Like, this is the last thing she sort of expects. Like, they had this incredible road trip and, like, things have been feeling great, have been feeling faded in a way. Yeah. And he leaves. And he leaves. And it looks like that's, oh, snap.

We didn't even know that happened. She goes to her parents' house for this birthday party, I guess, it's that same night. Yeah. Her mom is like, you're here really early. What happened? And she basically is like, you know, my mom, like, he broke up with me. Yeah. Like, she asks where Jack is.

And like, there's just a moment on your face of like, and so she recognizes and there's a bit of comforting that takes place there. And then later on, you're like, oh, I know you liked them a whole lot. And she's like, I don't. like him. I love him. And she's like, come. You haven't been together that long. Right. You can't be that much. You know what I'm saying? You're like, no, ma, you know when you know. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And it's not like you and dad. Right. You know? Right. And mom kind of jumps in and says, like, I know that your father and I don't have a flashy love story, but like, but we do care about each other. Yeah. And our love doesn't exist in sort of like the grand gestures of cross-country

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conditions apply I'm curious for you guys because like you know there's the honeymoon period of every relationship or whatnot but like there is something of validity I've been I'll be married 20 years

in March or whatnot and you're always sort of wondering like does does passion have to be sacrificed for dependability. Can those two things exist with one another? Can you oscillate back and forth or what have you, or does one necessarily have to overtake the other? I'm curious what your experience of long-term love feels like. I will say this. As I was watching this scene, I had a deep understanding of where both people were coming from. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. where I was like, I hear you, Rebecca, and it is true.

And it is not, or it is real, but it is not true. And the same thing with her mom, I'm like, yes, that is also real, but it is not true. In the way, and what I mean by real versus true, I mean that feelings aren't facts. Yeah. Yeah, always. They always change and they always shift and they move and they evolve and all these things. And it's like, yes, the thing, you are having a feeling. And right now you are calling it love.

But that doesn't mean that that that's all that love is. That's all that love is or that's all that love looks like. It doesn't mean that it will always be that way. You can have that feeling. It can change and it can evolve. And sometimes it goes away and it comes back and it, and it thins out and it fills out. But don't you expect that? That's what I expect of love.

Like I... I didn't used to. Oh. Now I do. Now I understand that. I expect it's going to shape shift. Yeah. That it's going to look different this year versus next year.

And like sometimes someone in your partnership has to give a little bit more than the other person. And like all of that is perfectly valid and understandable. And I think as long as like there is constant communication and you guys are trying to stay on the same page. Yeah. that is what long-term success. Yeah. Like, that's what warrants long-term success. See, I have an attachment issue.

Talk to us. When things are good, I get so attached to the idea that this is how it is now, that I get blindsided when it changes. And then when it's bad, I get so attached to, oh, this is how it's going to be forever. Like, it's something I work on and something I'm actively working on. But it's like to stay in the flow. Yes. To stay in the Mandy Moore flow a bit.

Yeah. I don't know the flow. No, but you've explained it. Like, and sometimes we are more aware of that flow and can allow it. And other times we are struggling against it. Yep. And trying to swim upstream. And I feel like parenthood has helped a lot with that.

For me, I'm just like recognizing the impermanence of these phases of like, well, I guess our kids all just sleep perfectly now every night. Like, that's that. Right. And it's like, until the next growth spurt. Correct. Like, it's just constantly. changing you're never like the second you feel like you have it figured out something shifts or everything shifts and i feel like that has has prepared me for other for approaching life with that

point of view of like okay i got to just be ready for everything and anything and and and recognizing that like my relationship with my husband is going to look like that too yeah yeah it's going to be harder and easier and harder and easier yeah do you think rebecca malone knew what mandy more knows No, because you don't know that as a young person. You're not supposed to, right? Exactly. It only comes with experience, and it comes with doing the work, and it comes with, yeah, just like the wisdom that, like, you know, a life well-lived kind of like garners you.

Do you think that if people knew what you all are talking about right now, they'd be less reticent to enter into it? You feel like it is the young person's sort of lot in life to just. just feel the romance, the sort of passion of it all, which allows like for something to start? Or do you feel like if people went in with that level of sobriety about what it is, that there would be more relationships? I think, no, like, you have. That's the most incredible thing about being a young person and you don't know what you don't know. And like the electricity, the magic of like falling in love and thinking that you found your person, like, nothing should take away from that.

and erase that. I think like you, it's only endeavoring to like do this long term with someone where you start to like pick this up. It's only weathering hardships and recognizing like it doesn't matter. I'm going to do whatever it takes for us to stick this out together. You can't like there's no way to teach someone that you have to live that. It's like preparing them to be a parent too. Like you could read every book and talk to every friend and it's the only way you're going to learn is just by living through it. So, no. I don't want to take away the magic from anybody.

I feel you. It's also brain chemistry. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, our dopamine and our serotonin levels are higher when we're younger. Right. And we are more easily, we can fall in love more easily. We can be joyful more easily.

We can give ourselves over to a live music concert. or whatever the thing is. There's this reckless abandon that comes from literal brain drugs that are just coursing through our veins. I don't even care. Let's just do it. Feels good.

And some people have that. Clearly, Kevin has that. He taps into that and it's like, oh, are we in love? Are you my mother? Yeah. Yeah, are you the mother of my children? Or my wife? But then there are people who I think

who don't have that, you know. Art wired that way, yeah. You come to art, you come to California, and you meet all kinds of friends who are single until they're 30, 35, 40, 45, you know, and you go home, you visit the Midwest, and you run into every couple, like, yeah, we met sophomore year of college, or, you know, we met in high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we started having kids at 25 and. Yeah, you're 10 years younger than me and have been married for the same amount of time, you know what I mean? that so i don't and i don't know if that's a regional like development in the brain or the or a social development and how you interact yeah but i don't know it's everybody learns at their own pace okay one more so then so then is it is it our responsibility as parents with our children

to allow them to have full access to that dopamine and feelings or do you attempt to temper them as Rebecca's mom with, like, you know, trying to explain, like, you may feel this way now, but things will ultimately become something else. Like, what do you think is the role of the mentor for their children, parent, like, to share with their kids? What do you think? Yeah, what do you think? We've answered a lot.

Because I'm coming up with dope-ass questions, by the. These are really good questions. Yeah, they are. They are great questions. I think life is the best teacher. Like, we often think that, like, the things that we tell our kids, children and the things that we tell our children will ultimately land. You have to say things to kids over and over and over again. And then one day when they're like 26, I'd be like, no, my dad used to say, you know what I'm saying? But life is the best teacher, right? And so I think

what you try to do is set them up and put them environments where they can explore and live in a safe environment, where any consequences of their actions will be minimized by the safety from which they're in, and just let them do their thing. You know what I'm saying? I think by and large, I see a lot of parents sometimes that have this, like, overwhelming desire to sort of, like, save their children from something. And it's like, first of all, the more you do that,

the more they're probably going to go in the opposite direction anyway, you can gently lay something out and then just, like, I said my piece, let them do their thing. You know what I'm saying? That's me, because I know a lot of other parents, parents would probably feel very different than me. I come to this thing when it comes to unstructured free play with and a lot of moms get mad at me because I'm like, man, let these kids run the street. Now I'm not talking about run across, you know, slawson and Lassianiga. I'm talking about

if you got a neighborhood and there's a bunch of kids who are close to each other, like you teach them how to cross the street to look both ways, et cetera, but I'm not going to be with them all a time. So after a certain moment, you know, I was like, you know how to cross the street. Go ahead and cross the street. Like be smart. Be safe. et cetera, et cetera, so that they can have a safe environment in which to learn the rules of how to navigate life. But, like, that's how we grew up. Yeah. And I want to give my children the same thing.

Yeah. I think it's the healthiest. But the helicoptering is very much in vogue. And sometimes when you go against the helicoptering, they're like, are you a good parent? Yeah. I think so, but. Yes. Yeah.

I believe so. Let us continue. Thank you guys for engaging me. No, great question. Those were amazing. she basically says admits to Rebecca I think your father got into Jack's head at the country club

and like just sort of gives her that little bit of info that is like oh okay now this all makes sense because I think Rebecca's really grappling like I don't know what happened I don't know what went wrong I don't know what I did

and her mom basically gives her the gift of like I think it was your father like kind of whispering in Jack's ear, like, he maybe isn't the right fit for you. Wonderful gift, right? Yeah. For a mother at this time to have the awareness to be like, you may or may not be, you are definitely feeling this. It may or may not always be this way.

Yeah. But you have the right to see how this plays out. Yeah. Based on your own recognizance, if that's the right use of that word. Yeah, yeah. She's an adult. There are other things at work here, and it's not just you and Jack. Your dad got his ear. Yeah, gotten his ear, which is unfortunate.

Can I play something real quick? Yeah. Tell me if you guys can hear this. If he's really your choice, this dark, complicated man, to make sure he gives you a great love story. One for the ages. So her mom sends her off with that message. of like, okay, okay, now that I've given me this info that, like, this was your dad's doing that's sort of, like, I think, preempted Jack to break up with you.

Yeah. If you're going to go find him and you're really going to do this with him, make sure it's worth it. Yeah. Make sure he is really your guy. Yes, ma'am. Because I think she knows how, like, Headstrong her daughter is. And I think she can also see, like, how much she really loves Jack. Yeah.

And everybody wants that. Everybody wants that. Yeah. And the next time we see Rebecca, she's, found Jack at his place of work at his at the auto body shop. And she basically, which what I love is like, this is normally Jack. It's my turn. It's normally jack pontificating with some big monologue and, you know, stealing the moment and winning the day and all of that. And it's fantastic. And we love him for it. But she basically walks up to him and is like, no, no, no, no. I speak.

You listen, basically. And she just tells him like, I don't care. that this is your job I don't care that you can't provide for me I don't care that my dad doesn't like you basically like the world may be against us but I know what I know and I know that I love you and I know this is the right thing

and she basically like catches him off guard and he's like did you really just say I love you first and she's like yeah I did and he says he loves her too and they kiss and basically it's like okay they're gonna do this but it just like brought me back because it's sort of juxtaposed with

Kevin telling Lizzie during their date at the Hollywood Bowl, like, oh, my parents were hopeless romantics. They had this effortless love story. And you really come to see like, exactly, the family lore of I'm sure what Jack and Rebecca told them or what they simply showed these kids growing up was beautiful and was a wonderful example of a, you know, a happy marriage most of the time. But it wasn't like, it got off to a rockier, unceremonious start that maybe the shoot, they wouldn't have, like, regaled their children with, you know? It's not as much fun of a story. I'll tell you, there's something really interesting. I find interesting parallels between Jack and Rebecca and Sterling and Ryan in terms of, like, Ryan having a bit more

affluence coming up than myself. There's something incredibly powerful. of that woman loving me in the midst of my circumstances and not seeing me for just what I brought to the table in that moment, but like seeing me as someone of great promise and just like loving me in spite of it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like where a lot of other people in her life are like, why would you hook yourself up to somebody who doesn't...

We were in the same situation. You know what I'm saying? Rachel and I, yeah. It is a powerful. I dare I say divine feeling to be like you you see me and love me regardless and and you like sort of bucking up against like even how folks are feeling in your own family etc and I was like I can I don't know if I can ever fully thank her enough for like hitching her wagon to this horse or what have you stallion please thank you I this very kind of you but believing you know, when there wasn't necessarily like a lot of evidence to believe. Like, that's what I saw when I saw you walk into this garage, this dude living in the place of these living, she's like, F all of that.

Like, I know what I feel, I know what exists between us, and I know what we can create together. Yeah. It's beautiful and it's powerful. But, like, I think that's what we all want, right? Yes. Like, yeah. I mean, it's, yeah.

It takes faith. Yeah. You know, in a person or in a feeling, you know, to trust. And in the world, to know that, like, no matter what we're going to figure this out together. Yeah. But that is, like, that's true love. It's dope. That's partnership.

I love that love. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We should get to Rebecca present day. Yeah. Because we have, it's sort of a Rebecca Miguel and Randall's storyline. Randall's in Philly.

He's been looking at. neurologist to sort of meet with mom. And he winds up finding somebody and telling Miguel, and he's like, oh, that's cool, appreciate and he's like, well, I'll be out there so we can go see the doctor together. And Miguel's like, no need. If that's all necessary, he's like, yo, man, found this person. I want to make sure everything goes smoothly. This family flies.

Yeah. We fly. That's exactly. That's how we do. Got all these miles. What's very interesting is like, so you have to take a test. And a cognition test just to see how things are going with your memory. And what I find really lovely about this episode is that the things that you remember are sort of like the framing of the episode is that you are remembering the beginnings of your relationship with Jack.

Yeah. Right? And sort of some of my favorite moments like with Randall as a baby. Yeah. Yeah. And so you go and take the test. Miguel and Randall are outside. And Miguel's like, yo, man, you didn't have to come all the way out of there.

And he's like, it's no big deal, right? And he's like, you know, I could have handled it myself. And he's like, look, man. And you know, it was funny. Like, I looked at this choice that Brown made as Randall. And I was like, I was like, I stand by you, Brown. I stand by you, Randall, as Brown. Because sometimes I don't.

It's like, look, I saw her for Thanksgiving. I could see something was not right. Yeah. You've been with her every day. How could you not have? He's like, you know. I just chalked it up to folks getting old. And he's like, all right.

And you can tell Randall's like, that's why I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I need to see this for myself. Yeah. Because something's been transpiring that's not. Sure.

Copacetic. Yeah. They go in. Oh, no. They wind up getting notice from Rebecca that the doctor let them know that the test results are in. Because Randall's like, can we get the results while I'm here? Well, can I just jump in with? Because I found it to be a really beautiful moment.

So she goes and takes the test, right? And the testing around cognitive impairment and, like, it involves, like, the doctor asks you, tells you phrases and wants you to repeat the phrases. You have to draw a clock with, like, the certain, you have to talk about, like, the date and where you are. And there's a whole range of questions, right? So she does that. She goes back to Miguel and Randall. They go to the cafeteria while they're waiting on the doctor to have these.

to come back with their test results, same day. And she feels good. She feels like she aced the test. And they see a little baby in the cafeteria and it just sort of jogs Rebecca's memory of like, I've been thinking so much about like you guys as babies and specifically this like beautiful memory of baby Randall, right? Who was an early riser, whereas the twins, for whatever reason,

decided to sleep in. And Rebecca, like most mornings, would sneak in when Randall was like awake and she'd pick him up and she put on her headphones and her walkman and she'd listen to Joni Mitchell and she would sit there and rock Randall and they would watch the sort of the light come up, the sun come up and just how beautiful it looked in the room. That was a good DP. That was a good DP show. Exactly. You would watch the light change. And for like a moment,

it was like she could make time stand still and babies changed so fast she didn't know like it made me think about it as well it's like you never know that last time that you might rock them that you might pick them up that you might you might you know um they might need you to like follow sleep at night or whatever the case may be and she's like so i really took stock of those moments and i remembered every detail of those mornings with you when you were a little baby and you could just tell like it's someone who's who knows She knows, she knows that something's coming. And so it's like, sorry,

having the access to those memories still while you can. It's like, I don't know. I remember thinking that when I read the script initially was like, oh, this woman like realizes what's coming for her, even though she hasn't been told yet by the doctor. And it just like gets me every time. So I don't know. I think being a parent too,

it like it changes everything that, through that lens. Sorry. Oh, come on. So while they're sitting at, in the diner, in the cafeteria, rather, they get a call that like the doctor's ready and wants Randall and Miguel to be in the room while she gives Rebecca the results. Yeah.

She is recognized that Rebecca does have something called mild cognitive impairment. And it's sort of the beginning stages before there's any real concrete answers as to an exact. diagnosis. It's sort of just like the perceptible shift in things moving in a certain direction, right? That like there are things that couldn't be remembered. And Rebecca's very defensive as anyone would be, I feel like in that particular situation. She is, she's like, I looks back at the test and is like, I drew the clock. It's very clearly a clock. It says seven o'clock or whatever time it's supposed to say. And the doctor's like, no, there's evidence that there is spatial distortion or whatever phrase she uses. And you can see that like the numbers, we had a neurologist

who was consulting us on a lot of these early episodes with Rebecca, but she was there on the day to help make sure that we were accurately drawing this clock. So you kind of see that like one, two, three, four, five, six are like very sort of widely spaced and then like 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 are all kind of like crammed together. Gotcha. And that, I guess, was what it sort of showed the doctor. Like, there's starting to be this, like, this spatial distortion happening. And you couldn't remember some of the phrases, like, right after I asked you to repeat them,

right after I told you. And, you know, everyone's hungry for, like, well, what is it then? Like, let's give it a name. And the doctor so often, I mean, my father-in-law has Parkinson's, and I think it's in a similar boat, these cognitive diseases where it takes so long to actually get an official diagnosis. It's years and years and years of, like, truly of, in some cases, watching these tiny shifts start to, like, move in a certain direction more than those patterns, like, they're able to name it.

And I think that's the case oftentimes with dementia and Alzheimer's, is it, they won't give you this, like, diagnosis necessarily, like, right off the bat. it takes years of like, again, recognizing those patterns. And that's what's happening with Rebecca. So it's like, food for thought. This is what, this is the direction we believe it's moving in. And so I think they left relieved to have some idea of what was going on. I'm sure Randall felt validated like what I saw,

although I didn't want this to be the answer. was like you weren't crazy for thinking that like this was something you needed to do that she needed to see a doctor. Miguel feels guilty. You know, he confides to Randall like, I just like, I thought that, you know, she, she forgot the word spatula the other day and called it a food flipper. And I thought that was like silly and kind of cute. But like, I think I was in denial and just thought we were getting older and like, I don't know

what I'll do without her. It's like immediately you jumped because you know what could. potentially be coming. And like I said before I broke down, I think Rebecca did too, like in her gut when she confides in Randall in the last episode, like halfway through the like, you know, trailer for cats of the movie theater, like I forgot what movie I was there to see. Like this is not my baseline. Something is changing. So I also found it like so moving like as we're going back and forth as our show does right in time of like seeing the past and seeing this like you know jack and rebecca and like the true like consolidation of this like these two forces together right this is

the real start of their life together you know the the road trip and first date and all of that was really beautiful but like her coming and saying like i don't care we're doing this like i'm not letting my dad interfere i'm not letting your lack of belief in you being able to provide for me like all of that, none of that matters. What matters is you and I, and we're doing this together. Like, that's when they're, this union really started, right? And so she's, I think she's, she's already like, what am I, like, what's the most precious thing to me, right? Like, time is not a renewable resource. And I know the clock is ticking now officially. And there's that shot of her in the mirror kind of looking in the end. And, and you're like, oh, wow, she's thinking

about the babies she's thinking about Jack because like all of this eventually won't be as accessible it'll be gone yeah it does sort of remind you of lend a couple of earlier episodes to the pictures yeah that she's been of course that's you know what i mean it's like i want to remember all of this because my mind is not what it used to be and i like i like i'm very proud of my son but like there's something a little deeper there yeah yeah uh i did i was touched by well a couple of things real quick. There's something you said, well, it's only, it can only be the swarm in LA on January 11th. Yeah. Right? So you knew where you were. January 11th is Arlene Brown's birthday. Oh. Right. And you're talking about, as you're talking about these degenerative diseases

where they be mental and or physical, similar sort of thing with ALS, right? Like she was in a facility because she broke her ankle, slipped on some ice and was doing rehab on her ankle. And like, wasn't getting the walking back and then would use her arms to overcompensate and would tear her rotator cuffs. Oh my gosh. And so you're like, whoa, something's going on here that's more than just a broken ankle. And so it took a while to figure out what it was, you know. How long? Months to like a year before we were able to get like an official diagnosis. She broke her ankle December of 2016 and we got an official diagnosis April of 2018. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Takes a while, right? But I was thinking about that. And then I was just thinking about like, similar to what you were saying, Mandy, like actively holding on to the things that were of greatest importance was what I saw Rebecca doing. And the other thing, and this is a tangent. Because let me finish the storyline in terms of just that conversation between Miguel and Randall. He's like, you know, you were right, Randall. I didn't want to be right. He admits to like, like, you know, you were right. I didn't want to be right. He admits to like, you know, you know,

I haven't seen things, and he says, I'm going to take care of her. Yeah. I said, I know you are, big daughter. Yeah. Like, and that's, does somebody ever come fucking through? Yeah. It's Miguel. Come on, Jack.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That brother came through. In every way. He's ten toes down. He stood on business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm taking care of this, more of it, Jack. He tried.

He tried the whole until the bitter end. I know. And there's a lovely shot of us, the three of us walking out, you hold in his hand and me standing right next to you, which is a beautiful thing. The thought that I had to in terms of like, the love that is present in your life and the love that was and whatnot,

like the human capacity for love. Like, and I think this is a, it took a certain level of maturity for me to even recognize this. Like, people that my wife has been with in her past or whatnot, used to have some sort of sense of jealousy or whatever, I was like, da-da-da-da. I was like, the more love you experience, the more love you have to experience more love.

Yeah. It didn't go away. No. You know what I'm saying? And like, we shouldn't be, thank God Miguel's mature enough to be like, look, I know who I am. I know who Jack was. I am secure in what we have. And what they had was beautiful.

Yeah. You know, I'm just thrown out to people who need to hear that possibly. Yeah. Agreed. And to go back to Rebecca's mom's description of like what she and, and Rebecca's dad had, like, Miguel and Rebecca have a different kind of love. Yeah. But that's, it's no less valid or valuable.

Like, it's, it's quieter, it's smaller. I mean, she's said so much in like a previous, you know, episode or something, I believe, this season. And it's really beautiful. It's beautiful to, like, witness in this show, just all different kinds of love at different stages, different ages. Yes. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, I mean, the whole, the whole, the way everything plays out is, is a, you know, a for an audience to understand characters based on the way the other characters see them.

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And it really defines, like, how we exist in this world based on relationship to everyone and everything around us. Yeah. You know what I mean? Which is why it's so valuable to have friends and family, you know what I mean? I mean, like, because I understand you based on my experience of you, but also by the way Mandy reflects you back to me

and the way your wife reflects you to me. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so it's interesting, this episode in particular, because of what she's sharing about her memory and her reflecting moments that you don't remember. Miguel wasn't there for you know what I mean like and she's building she's building you as a person even now yeah like this a more fully realized picture of yourself yeah like that is such a gift right

to be able to give someone something a little piece of themselves that you would never know about otherwise but it it's part of you it's in you somewhere yeah you just were too little to ever realize that yeah so maybe that that is a key to your early your question about our children, you know, as they grow and they start having feelings and experiences, is to help them... Contextualized. ...know themselves fully enough so that they can be free in those moments to trust whatever they're feeling.

I feel you. I love that. That's good. That's good. And this episode ends in a way that I totally forgot about. Right. And I out loud shouted at my TV when I realized. Yeah. But Randall comes home from this, I'm sure, emotionally draining trip to Los Angeles.

He lands back in Philly. He comes home. It's clearly very late. Yeah. The house is asleep. He sort of puts his stuff down, goes upstairs, looks in on everyone, gives them all kisses, wakes up Beth. And he's like, I'm going to just go back downstairs for a glass of water. and he walks downstairs, and what does he find? There's a burglar. There's an intruder in his comb. He's being burgled.

He's being burgled, and it just freezes on, like, the two of them staring at each other. The look on your face, man, was so real. It was so priceless, yeah. And that was the end of the episode. Yeah, I was like, what? We know how to hang a cliff. Yeah, it's a cliffhanger. Yeah.

So we'll get it. into it more because we're going to pick up right where we left off. We're going to pick up where we left off, but this was a really special episode. Yeah. Shout out to the Yasu. You have this business. It was beautiful. I think we're going to come back with a fan segment, right?

Our favorite segment of the show? I love a fan segment. More that was us after this. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the fan segment. This fan segment is inspired by one of the sweetest moments in this episode when Jack and Rebecca finally say, I love you. So, we asked all of you listeners to share your own stories about the first time you said, I love you to your significant other.

Oh, we're so excited to share some of your love stories. Let's read a few of the emails you sent in. All right, the first email we have is from Abby. Hello, Mandy Sterling and Chris. Hello, everyone. First off, thank you for the wonderful gift of this podcast. Oh, you're welcome. You're so welcome, Abby.

It's a pleasure. And giving fans a way to keep the show alive. I saw the prompt of Great First I Love You Stories and just had to write in. My husband, Joshua, and I met while working as camp counselors at a summer camp in Mount Ida, Arkansas. After the summer ended, he went to work full-time for the camp, and I moved to Boston for an accounting job. But when I was home in Memphis for the holidays, he stopped to grab dinner on the way back to Arkansas. This first date started as dinner in Memphis and ended with me spending a week back at camp with him to wrap up

the holiday break. During this week of bliss, we spent every hour together. Seeing camp in the off season was magical, complete with the first snow of the season. Oh, I can just feel it, you guys. This is me now. Just a little cabin, snow starts to fall so cozy.

On the last night, he took me up to the top of the infamous climbing tower and as we sat wrapped up in blankets looking at the stars this epic first date ended with the first I love yous from each of us now I'm sitting

with my fourth cup of coffee of the day typing this one-handed as our three-week-old daughter has a death grip on my son and I hope that she one day finds a love just as wonderful as ours forever y'all's fan

Abby Abby, congratulations. That's awesome. Abby, thank you for... That is so beautiful. Thank you for throwing the word y'all in there. For sure. Come on, audience.

It would be the greatest word in the English language. I love missing you. So I am going to read an email from Nicole. Hi, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling. I am a big fan of the show. It's my favorite show. Thank you. And your podcast is the only podcast I listened to.

I used to say I wasn't a podcast person until you guys. That's right. Thank you so much, Nicole. I truly believe it is a handbook for life. and given my rough childhood, it is exactly what I need and what helps me be a better person. I learned what was healthy

and what a family life should look like from the show. Good gracious, thank you. It's for that reason that I believe my love stories connected to this as us, especially because I first said I love you after watching an episode together. The show helped me validate my growing feelings for the guy I was dating then, Matthew,

and who would eventually become my husband. The show showed me what a healthy romantic relationship should look like. I saw so many characteristics of Jack and Matthew, a sensitive yet steady man who would do anything for his family and the woman he loves. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse that didn't come out until I was 17 years old, I had lived through a very turmoil childhood where my mother and abuser would argue nearly every day. Growing up, my biggest fear was to repeat the same mistakes my mom made in marrying bad men who would abuse kids. I didn't know what real love look like and felt like, and watching this as us, seeing Jack and Rebecca's story and also

the big three love stories, help me learn what a healthy home life was supposed to look like, and it paralleled the future I could see myself sharing with Matthew. Each episode felt like it cemented my love for him, and that I could break the cycle and be in a healthy relationship with a man who won't abuse my kids and instead will protect them fiercely, and who will love me, and most importantly, it was a love that finally felt safe. Anyway, back To my I Love You Story, Matthew and I started off long distance, and during one visit, we watched the episode where Kevin injured his leg in high school, ending his football career. I had been watching the show by myself, and this was his first episode, and he cried in that episode. I thought, that was so Jack Pearson.

And again, the show has been helping me grow and my feelings towards Matthew. I knew I loved him, and this moment only solidified my feelings for him. So I told him, I love him, after we watched the episode and cried. and he said it back. And we continue to say it to each other every day that day forward. We got married last year in August of 2025 and celebrated our one-year anniversary. I am so happy to have found my own Jack Pearson

and to be in a very loving, safe, and healthy relationship that broke the cycle. Thank you, that was us, Pod, for letting me share my story. Best, Nicole. So great. Wow. Thanks, Nicole. Wow.

Well, she said last year, August 2025, I hope it's 2024. 2024. Otherwise, it's like, man. We got married last year. So August 2025 was there one year anniversary? Okay, got it, got it. Got it.

Okay, so my letter is from Janine. Janine says, hafa adai, which means hello from the island of Guam, Sterling, Mandy, and Chris. My name is Janine Damien, and I've been married to my wonderful Jack Pearson-like husband, Daryl, for almost three years now. We'll be celebrating our anniversary. anniversary on December 7th. We first met in middle school back in 2010, but it wasn't until college seven years later that we reconnected and fell in love. One night, barely just a couple of weeks into dating, we were driving down a quiet road when we both started to say I love at the exact same time and then stopped ourselves. It felt too soon, even though we both knew what we were feeling.

About a week later, we finally admitted what had almost slipped out that night. And five years after that, we got married in that very same church we had passed when those little words first tried to sneak out. Thank you, Sterling, Mandy, Chris, the rest of the incredible cast, and most especially Dan and Sidata for creating such an unforgettable show. Yeah, shouting out Sid. Come on now. We love you all and are so deeply thankful for how this is us. has expanded our understanding of what it means to be human, to be a family, and to be truly loved. We pray that God will bless us with children someday, and when he does, we look forward to sharing this beautiful show with them,

one that has helped prepare our hearts for the journey of parenthood. Janine Damien, LMSW. You guys, what a wonderful sort of reaffirmation of what the show was to so many people. Yeah. Thank you, Janine, Damien. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Nicole, Janine, Abby.

Beautiful emails. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. And, like, man, the show. Show is, I don't know. We've said it all before. I guess we could say it again. Like, it just meant something to people. It's so cool to be a part of something that meant something to people.

That, like, our little show is woven into everyone's life. in its own way. It's so, it's remarkable. And that you all are keeping the show alive with us. Yeah. By listening to the pod and following along and. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Look at that. On top of their cake, is this their wedding cake, engagement cake? Some sort of cake celebrating their love. Also, Janine, beautiful wedding dress with their dogs. And I don't know if this is like the after, but the after dress is slamming test. Yeah. And him, I'm sorry, the brown suit. Brown suit is sharp.

Looking good. Yeah, they're a handsome couple. Lord, have mercy. A lot of mercy. This is awesome. Okay. This is us. That was us.

Another great episode. Another great episode. Always enjoy to chop it up with you guys. To our listeners, thank you. If you haven't by this time, you know, like, subscribe, tell a friend, support our sponsors. It helps us keep the show on and active and lively. Pick an episode on YouTube, share it with a friend, or just a clip. Maybe you've got a funny clip you come across, send it.

Let people know. I bet the funny clip is one of the two of you guys doing something ridiculous. I still run into people who love the show, who don't know that we're doing a podcast. So help us spread the word. Amen. You know, check any one. I just looked at this. I don't know if you guys know this.

We have over 2,000 five-star reviews. Oh, we do? Yeah. On iTunes. That's what I'm talking about. Friends in the Los Angeles area, we're doing a live show on January 17th at the Willtern here in Los Angeles. She'll be right.

Even if you don't live in L.A. and you want to make a little journey out to Southern California. It is sometimes really beautiful in mid-January out here. It's not just a live podcast. We're going to be playing some live music with support from Taylor and Griffin Goldsmith. Yeah, and hopefully Sid will be a part of it. I'm not going to mention any more names, but, you know, we have, music is a huge through line in our show.

So we are, we have some ideas per person. Right now. Let your imaginations run wild. Yes. Let us surprise you. But thank you for listening. Tell a friend. Pass it on.

Support our sponsors. You know, you know the drill. Chris, what's the name of the show, man? That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. was us.