That Was Us - John Requa & Glenn Ficarra and Us | Directors & Producers

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

This week, dynamic directing duo and Executive Producers on This Is Us, John Requa and Glenn Ficarra, join the podcast! It feels like a family reunion with Mandy, Chris, Sterling, John, and Glenn as they reminisce about memories on set and what it was like working together. John and Glenn talk about what life was like before This Is Us and how they got started in their careers, world building on the show and how their directing style informed the show’s “peak behind the curtain” feel viewers came to love, and they spilled behind the scenes secrets about iconic episodes, like when Jack went back into the burning house, plus so much more! Support our sponsors: - Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host - Go to dabbleanddollop.com and use the code THATWASUS20 for 20% off your first purchase. - Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan by texting TWU to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. - For a limited time, go to SpotandTango.com/twu and use code twu to get 50% off your first order. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You go for it. Oh, my God, welcome back to the podcast on this, a very special day. The two gentlemen who we are welcoming into the studio today are two of my favorite members of the This Is Us family. We have Glenn Foucara and John Riqua. Hello, welcome, gentlemen. Thank you so much for joining us. These two gentlemen are a creative duo, directing, writing, producing team,

who I think I love you, Philip Morris, was probably the first, like, your coming out party, as it were. Our first official directing. Directing more ways than one. No, it was our first directing thing. But we've been working together as writers and making short films since college. Wow.

That's where they met. Pratt, yeah, and the 80s. The 80s. For those listening, the 1900s were a complicated time. I hitched my horse. There was disease. There was disease. But if anybody ever asks me about you, too, because I do talk about you a lot.

I have a great amount of respect and admiration for both of you. I said, all you need to know about these two men is that they directed the pilot of This Is Us. and Bad Santa. We wrote Bad Santa. And wrote Bad Santa. Those two projects, if you mash them together, I think are a perfect encapsulation

of you too. And thank you so much for joining me today. Our first produced screenplay was a talking animal movie. Which was what? Cats and dogs. I saw cats and dogs. Glenn Fikara was the voice of the Russian kitty.

Were you really? Wait a minute. Breaking news. Hot take. I think not the baby puppy. Get out of here. Wow. Okay, so wait.

You guys started, I'm always sort of fascinated by this. Well, let me give a little bit of backstory. I'm talking again. A little backstory of like how I met these guys. Someone told someone off the podcast told Sterling that he talked too much on the podcast, and now he has like a thing. And we want him to erase that. Is this your wife?

That's what I said. I was like, that's certainly Ryan. So check the stuff. I'm before I told you guys this. I was in New York City doing a play by Susan Lorry Parks. It's called Father Comes Home from the Wars 1, 2, and 3. And Tiffany's casting director, who I came in to see these guys for a movie that they were doing with Tina Fey called Whiskey Tango Fox Tribe.

Yes, right? Great movie. So I go in, I audition for these guys. They wind up putting me in their movie. Got a small part, but a cool part. It was a lot of fun, right? Then I was doing O.J., which is 20th Century Fox, which is our studio, also the studio for This Is Us.

And I don't know the exact, so you guys can fill in for me. And they're like, oh, this guy's playing Darden, we should bring them in for This Is Us, whatever. The Untitled Dan Fogerman Project, his name Sterling Brown. And the guys, it was the first time walking into a room where they're directing the pilot. And I'm like, oh, they're friendly faces. It's nice to have like people know you.

The studio is sort of like excited about you. You know what I'm saying? Like to have buzz. I don't know. Man anymore, you've had buzz for a long. No, no, no. No, no. No, but that's.

You're Amanda Leemoor, you didn't have buzz your whole life. So it was a really interesting sort of experience to come into the room and have people that you've seen before that know your work, whatever, that are excited to see you. Because most of the time you're just in there singing for your supper, trying to know, hello, my baby, doing your old jazz hands type thing. Let's not get the WB involved. Let's not do that.

That's a good book. I appreciate that. But so you guys also, so everybody knows, had worked with Dan previous on crazy stupid love, which my wife and I watched and we were like, oh, snap. Like, these are the same people that directed and wrote that thing. Like, this show has to be good.

Yeah. I was just excited to have the meeting. You guys, that's it. That's what I wanted to say. From our perspective. Yeah. So we're trying to cast this part of a, like a gunnery sergeant

for this Whiskey Tango Foxtrot movie. And we're not really finding anybody. And Tiffany says, the guy, he has been in jail, basically, working in, like, Carolina South Carolina he hasn't been able to work in the way because he's been on this series you know small series Army Wives yeah that's it that's it he he's available he's great so we came in sold right while we're making the movie in New

Mexico Sterling is he's just a star we actually had said you know like I don't know who this guy is but we're working with him forever because he's something that's about to happen. Yeah. And we didn't know about Darden. Yeah. What happened was is dancing, this the script, and we're editing, and we're reading the thing, we're all, this is Sterling.

We just do, you know, so we said, Dan, you got to meet with this guy. You're the only person we ever put up for, for Randall. There was a stiff wind blowing behind Sterling. And Dan, Dan was like, okay, I never really heard of him. I mean, you know, maybe hoping for a name or whatever. But at the same time, Tiffany said you were in the OJ thing. Yeah. So we thought, we thought, oh, this is great.

The studio knows them. Maybe this isn't far-fetched. It worked out. It worked out, perfect. It worked out. I appreciate the vote of confidence, gentlemen. And we're working together right now just for folks to know. They also directed the pilot of Paradise.

That's right. So they have been working with you. They are working with you. Yeah, forever. We've been working together for questions in a package deal. It's not so bad. In fact, at this location in Glendale, California, where we will have picked up by a van,

go location scout for season two. This is true. By the entire This Is Us crew. Yeah, that's right. And we will be interviewing the creator of This Is Us right after this. It's a family affair. It's pretty exciting. Can you guys, let's go back to the 1900s.

Let's go back. And talk to me, because we actually, with Isaac and Elizabeth had another kind of what I view as maybe it's not as rare but a rare happening in our industry which is a directing writing duo team

and you guys have been doing that from the beginning and so had Isaac and Elizabeth and we had two sets of those on our show which I think is even rarer that's true you guys started in college talk to me about where you went how you decided that this partnership was going to be lasting if you still have I mean, it might not.

Well, you know, it's an interesting thing is, you know, in college, you make movies about death that are morbid and depressing and you think you're going to be a serious filmmaker. And then we would have little side projects that were funny and kind of not emotional, but character-based. And everybody loved those and everybody hated their serious films about death. Back when we had a shoot on film and you'd spend a fortune on getting the film and you do some stupid thing on the video and everybody's like, I saw that. That was amazing. all across the campus at our school. We have a clip. And we were, if we had, if we have any,

if we have any intelligence about us, we were like, well, maybe we should just go with the thing that people like. What was the campus? It was Pratt in Brooklyn. Very near Susan. Oh, cool. Yeah, very near.

I lived in Fort Green, and so Pratt's right down the street. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. So, like, Susan grew up in the neighborhood. We must have bumped into, of course, she was young. Yes. Yeah. But anyway, so we were smart enough to go, okay, well, we seem to be good at this.

So let's just follow that. And instead of the thing, you know, the high flute and stuff we thought we were gonna do. Yeah, we bonded over the, when you go to art school, yeah, because you're not smart. That's why you go to art school. Different kind of smart. We were sort of bonding over the fact

that we're put into these classes that you have to take foundation classes, drawing, painting, like color design, sculpture. Sure. I mean, some filmmakers can try. and do stuff, but not us. So you're the worst people in the class are the film majors.

You're stuck. Okay. And so you naturally get together and bond. And I think, you know, we kind of knew each other from our light color and design class. And then we met at the college bar one night, and we were doing some schick while drinking a pitcher of beer. And then John just poured the entire picture over my head.

For a laugh. And I was like, you know, it was just. Are you serious? Love ever since. Yeah. Because it's fine with just little... That could have gone such the wrong way. But you knew them well enough to know that it was.

That's how you find out. And we were also the guys who, you know, I mean, it wasn't a serious film class. We went in there, film one class. They were like, what was the film that got you here? I'm not, this is not a joke. Everybody said Empire Strikes Back. I said Laurence Arabia and he said Clockwork Orange. We were the only two guys in the entire class that didn't say Empire strikes back. Really? Yeah, we were the only guys who actually knew about other movies besides Star Wars. Sure.

So we were like, oh, we're destined to be friends. Yeah. And then, so then the first thing that you wrote together was it just by happenstance? Like, I'm working on this, let me show it to you, and then you start working together? Or it's like, you formulate an idea together? Yeah, we were just making short films that tickled us. And then we made a bunch of short film collections and they were, they did the circuit. Like the New York Underground Film Festival.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. New York Underground Film Festival. Which Top Phillips was on the... Yeah, Todd Phillips was on the board. He was running back. It makes sense. We knew when we were just like, Pimpilly-faced college kids.

We've gone on Todd. And so that got a lot of... They got a lot of interest. And then somebody paid us to write a screenplay. They paid us $7,000. Yes. To write us... $7,000.

That's huge. To write a screenplay. And we wrote a screenplay. And then they loved that. Gabe Sacks. who's still working in the business and out there. And hey, Gabe, if you're listening.

And then Gabe, Ben paid us $10,000 to write another screenplay. And just basically, we would just pitch it to them and we weren't union. And we would just, so we had these things and these things became our calling card. Yeah. Never got me. Yeah, never got me.

But we built our career on just people passed them around and love the scripts. Could you guys knock them out quick? Like, what's the process? Back then we did, yeah. Yeah, what is the process? How did you guys find, like, I want to do this? and I'm going to do this.

Like, how did you sort of delineate? Well, I just wanted to be a director, and I never thought I could do comedy. I just didn't think I was appropriate for me. And John convinced me that I was funny. You were funny enough. Funny looking. And I didn't know that's what he meant at the time.

Right what you know. So, wait, let me say this real quick, because one of the important things to realize when you were directed in the John and Glenn episode, and especially when it has like a bit or a comedy thing, like you wind up doing the line as written, And then they just stand next to the camera and they give you about 17 different alts

that they want you to try. And you just like take a breath and you like, and you do the alt and they're just like, and they're getting, you can see them, just like, okay, say this, okay, say that, right? What I wanna know is like, because it all always seems you guys, no one's ever coming up at the same time to the actors. Do you guys talk at Village as like, who's gonna talk to who?

Or is it just the shorthand now to the point where you're like, oh no, I don't wanna say, this to so-and-so, and I'm going to say this to so-and-so. We check with each other real quick. We usually, one of us has a better idea what they want, and we can kind of sense that one's more passionate than the other, and we back down.

Okay. Yeah, and we, early on, we were really conscientious about, like, not talking over each other. Yeah. Because directing teams are so rare in our early career. They were so rare, and people were weirded out by it. But now, there's lots of directing teams, and we have a

bit of reputation, so now we just, you know how it is not. Yeah. Just come down and like, shut up, guys, shut up. I mean, we just have to lobby the DGA to, you know, shoot a movie or, you know, every time we'd have to sign a waiver or whatever. Yeah, tell me about that because there are several directing duos. There's a lot more, I'd say, writing teams than there are directing teams. Definitely. Logistically speaking, the unions don't like that. They don't like to. They're okay. The DGA, the Directors Guild of America, is okay, with it now. But if you, for example, Joel and Ethan Cohen, their first five movies, I think, are produced by Ethan, directed by Joel because they would not give them shared credit,

even though they directed them together. They were brothers. And they were brothers. They had worked together their whole life. And so the DGA was sort of, and when we joined as a team, we had to make a movie independently in order to qualify to be a team. And we were grilled. We were, like, brought in and like it was like the interrogation scene about your knowledge of directing just about like you guys what you guys are going to divide the work they want to just make sure it's not it comes from a pure place which was in that in the old days you know you would just like you know some guy would put his mistress on as a writer or director and a thing and so they're just trying to make sure of that but the fact that we wrote together was helpful okay that we had been writing

together for so long yeah so it didn't hurt that you were also mistresses to each other yeah well we fooled them and i think it worked yeah and now they don't ask you okay is so they can't imagine so we're now on two projects together this is us in paradise and i'm curious because you guys are writers is it a different approach to directing something that you've written versus taking somebody else's words and directing those like how do they compare and contrast like both. Okay. It's a completely different thing when you've ridden it yourself.

Yeah. I think, right? I mean, it's, you just know it intimately. Sure. And then, I mean, Dan's a special case. Louiella, like, sort of speak fluent Fulgellman. Sure. So there's not a lot of miscommunication.

Right. And he's just like a collaborator does. So he's just part of the team, I think, or we're part of his team. And I think it's a really interesting thing when you're directing somebody else's material because you have to, just like an actor, you have to like really like dig into every word and understand what this, what do they want out of this? So, you know, we always did this session when we ask a bunch of stupid questions for like, you know, two hours. No such thing is stupid questions, guys. We know that. When you say this, is this a joke or is this a,

is this reference, you know, it's all that stuff. I find that interesting. What's interesting about when we write, one of the reasons we bonded with Dan so strongly, we, when we made crazy stupid love was, he was just like, oh, if the scene wasn't working, it goes, oh, it's the writing, just change it. And that's our attitude too. When it's our writing, we're just like, we're like, oh, it's got this writing, it's terrible,

just change it. You guys got to, anything you can come up with is gonna be better than this. And we have that attitude about a writing. Most writers are like, you know, they missed a comma. You know, it's a lot of, yeah, and they don't, they just wanna, they feel like, you know, they feel like they're being robbed,

We're just like, you know, obviously it's a disaster. The script is a disaster. And you actors are going to come along and save us. That's just our attitude. And Dan was the same way. And we were like, oh, God, we thought we were the only ones that were like that. And he's like, oh, clearly there's got to be something better. So we shoot scripted and then we like just to goof around.

Sure. You know, and it's nice to be a writer when you're directing. And if the scene's not working, you get the scripted scene. And then you're like, okay, guys. Right. You guys, you know, let's figure it out. Let's figure it out. Yeah.

You know, let's just sit down and figure out how to make this scene work. And then you just go back and you sort of improv and do a little thing and fix the scene. I'm curious how This Is Us came to you. I mean, obviously you guys have the relationship with Dan. And I'm sure after like the success of crazy stupid love, I'm sure you guys were all like, we've got to figure out something else to do together. But like, how did it come to you? And then you guys are also obviously executive producers on the show.

And you directed some of our most seminal episodes and memorable episodes. Every death but yours. And the Super Bowl and... So, yeah, so I'm just curious to hear how well... It was our ambition to kill you. Yes. We beg. Sorry.

We were in Toronto, so we weren't able to do it. We were in Toronto, so we weren't able to do it. Dan was talking about this as us while we were shooting crazy stupid love. Are you serious? As a movie idea, I believe. Yes. Yes, yes. But in my memory, he was just...

It was a movie. I have this rough idea. idea and it was always the reveal at the end that you've been watching yeah i don't want to spoil for anybody no you're good family yeah spoiler um that was that was the big reveal we also thought it was a good idea and then he finally uh while we were doing with gitango fox track he sent us the script and he's like i don't know if you remember this and you know it's serious this is an interesting story i i hate to you mind if i tell the story sure we had just dropped out of I went on vacation with my five-year-old, six-year-old son.

And the phone was ringing off the hook. And I was on the phone just constantly. And the whole trip, and I wasn't able to engage with my son. I feel like I'm missing my son's childhood. And we were booked to go do a movie. And I said, you know what? We got to drop out of this movie. Because I just can't, I can't leave my son.

I can't, you know, I can't just not be part of him being raised, you know? and we quit the movie and a lot of people very angry with us and Dan's script landed on that's true that next day and it was shooting in LA I mean it's just like sometimes and we wouldn't have been able to do it

if we had kept that movie so it was just yeah it was probably sort of like fell in the place it was like every because we were off season so we weren't in that pilot casting madness it was like everybody was available that you wanted and it was yeah and all just sort of more than and by the way more in this you can ask Dan

about this can you say we said this okay more than anything dan's ever written the pilot of this is us is a real reflection of his whole life yeah and uh and and and you should pin him down about that because i mean i read it and i'm like dan this is not a script this is you you know because you know so much of his backstory and he won't want to talk about a lot of it but it's it's uh it's really it was a beautiful thing it was like it just was it came straight from inside him and his heart you know It was just like, we knew them well enough at that point to really feel it. It was really great. That seems to be the, even for those of us who didn't know Dan's story when we read that script,

that we knew that there was something different about that script. Yeah. And everyone we've talked to has had that same response. Yeah. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision. They slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes.

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very few dolly shots. It's pretty much handheld throughout the entire thing or whatnot. It was that, like, the verite was something that you guys had talked about, I'm sure, from the beginning and then ultimately decided on with Yashu. just talk to us about decisions made in terms of establishing style. Yeah, we wanted it to feel kind of intimate and voyeuristic in these people's lives. And we had just experimented with a lot of handheld on Whiskey Tango Fox truck. And it was just a fast way to move.

It was great for throwing out ideas and redoing stuff and keeping it moving. And yeah, so we said there are no dollies allowed, no cranes allowed, no, you know, if you're shooting in a car, shoot in the car. don't you know don't do the the rig you know okay and all that stuff just like make it real like a camera crew is following these people around yeah and make it feel that way it's okay if there's bumps and mistakes yeah yeah yeah and it just makes it feel like more intimate like you're buying on someone like you're it's so you wanted the sense of like you're inappropriately dropping dropping in on a conversation and family right and so uh two eyes always trying to do

two eyes over and always trying to crowd the frame so like you're holding a piece of like the cameras over here you're shooting over someone's shoulder and you want to hold a piece of that person in the shot so there's always two people in the shot so you're always like and also in the cutting pattern staying on the listener more than than you normally would okay so you see people reacting to dialogue as opposed to just and you know that was a big thing yes and then look in the exact opposite for paradise paradise is oftentimes you'll know two one eye like profile because so you're not inside this is a mystery yeah like you're not in you're not in you're not invited in you're outside of this thing yeah trying to you know and like you want in you want more information and

this is like we want to give you too much information we want to make we want to make the audience feel uncomfortable that they're dropping in on this comment yeah like kept on at bay yeah like they're uncomfortable that they're being brought into this family and and getting the secrets they shouldn't be getting and that's that voyeuristic thing i think it worked yeah yeah yeah yeah like you know remember we were always put the camera and you'd be we were eventually told not to do that anymore, but we would let the actors drive, remember this? And we would sit, we'd be in the backseat with a camera.

Yeah. And we would just shoot you in the back seat like that, like you were to documentary or something. Yeah. It's almost like halfway through the show. Like we stopped doing the practical driving. I think it's when I rolled the camera up in the window. And the window shattered him.

Oh, was it? Oh, yeah. What did you do? Remember those? It was so hot, we would roll the windows down between takes. Me and Chrissy's window up front. Yassi was sitting in the back seat with the camera. And he had to- They're like,

Okay, rolling. He had rolled his window down so he could fit the back of the camera out the window. And when I went to roll our windows out, I hit the wrong switch. And all I heard, Yasu very quickly, go, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, boom. The whole window exploded on the back of it. I remember this now. Yeah, yeah. It was about then that we stopped letting the camera union, the camera union, the operator's, the operator's, yeah, yeah.

They were not happy. It's, you do all kinds of, because if an airbag goes off, that's for sure, you can really hurt somebody. And you're not belted in. You know, you could turn an airbag off or whatever. Yeah. The rule now is, is as long as you control the street or you can, you know, control the traffic around.

Yeah. Yeah. You can do it. But back then, it was, we were, it's just wild west. Let me ask you guys this because I, and you guys tell me if you get the same sort of thing. I know, Chris, we've talked about this a little bit. People always talk about how sad the show is and how it makes them cry or whatnot. And I think we've had this conversation. I was like, but I thought the show was

a comedy. Like when I first read it, I was like, this thing is so funny. There's so much levity. So much levity to it. So I'm curious in terms of tone for you guys, what did you first clock when you read it and what is it that you wanted to come across as you established the tone of the show? I mean, it's the way it was written. I mean, it's in there. It's in the script. And we'd always done a lot of stuff as writers where we were trying to mix tones, like Dan does. really well. So that's why we wanted to do crazy, stupid love when he wrote it, because we're like,

this is basically the style that we do. That's a good point. I mean, that's a good point, because Dan and Glenn and I were doing mixed tone, and we kind of found each other. And we were like, oh, wow, we're doing the same thing. Yeah, and the show was mixed tone. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and I think probably that earlier seasons

were a little, played a little more with levity than later, because I think the storylines just had to get heavier just to just to. keep you invested so like you know because like Justin it's hysterical it's just hysterical in those first seasons and he was this tragic thing and he still has his moments but right uh it's that's just the nature of series it's also kind of the trajectory of life in general it all starts out so fun it all starts out so fun so light yeah but you know and then as the seasons roll by it gets darker everybody goes to a funeral and they're talking to a friend they haven't seen in a long

and then they laugh and they look around. They're like, oh, I just laughed at a funeral, but that's life. It is like sat crying and laughing at the same time. Yeah. And we mechanistically, storytelling, it's the rents. We call it the rents. Like you're telling a story because this show was about surprises. Always was about big surprises.

You know, that was part of the dynamic of the show. As they were like we're trying to hide things from the very beginning and conceal things and then surprise people. We're in a different time frame, whatever it is. Yeah. And so what you do is you make people laugh and they stop investigating the show. They stop. They just kind of roll with it. They laugh. And they forget about it. And they forget that maybe they would have, if you wouldn't have gone for that laugh, they would have kind of made it, figured out what you were doing. Figure out the tricks. But the laugh, we would call it the rents. It would give you like a restart. And then and then so like a couple of laughs and then suddenly you reveal it's, you know, Randall's an old man and it's the future.

Right, right, right. Right. Right. Yeah, that was like, and that was the rents. You know, it's like the rents. You know, it's like the. They call it. Interesting. We call it. Sorry to jump into the Super Bowl of it all because we were just talking about that and we're going to be talking about that episode with Dan in the next little bit. But Sterling was asking just about the practicality of the fire. And I was trying to explain to him.

I was like, we built a set out and like Palmdale was that? Like, where was that? Yeah, it was somewhere out there. And like, we built the facade of the house. And I was like a lot of that, a lot of the fire was practical. And obviously you guys can speak way better to all of this. But I'm like, we were in the freezing cold with, like, fire around us, like, doing stuff in the bedroom. Milo was in the hallway with that mattress.

That's what I wanted to know, like, fire in the house in particular, when he's going to get the kids, et cetera, what's practical, what's CGI like that? The house is made completely out of fire resistant material. Okay. And then they pipe it like a barbecue. It's just all these pipes. The whole thing is, all these things. And they turn it on and light them up just like a barbecue, like your barbecue kind of thing. And that's what it is.

so it's like turn it on turn it off and nothing will keep burning nothing if you keep it on too long it'll burn but they sure they were managing that sure yeah so it was but like the fire was there it was and then you have also had oh it's really hot yeah the uh you know these kind of portable flame bars that you put them in front of the camera and then since we were on sort of longer lenses kind of compress everything so it looks like milo's right right in it okay okay because it does It does look like he's right in. No, it's good. It shoots really well.

That's a great thing about shooting on long lenses is it makes... How much planning? Like, is it more than the average set up? That was a lot of planning. We had a board that whole sequence just to know what we could get away with and not get away with. We were running out of time. So, bored means storyboarded. We storyboarded.

So everything was, every shot was a picture in a storyboard that we could reference. Those art classes were coming back now. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is interesting. We went to art school and we liked to complain about we were the worst kids in the class, class, but those lessons we learned in our foundation classes, which were drawing, light color design, and 3D. We use every day when we direct.

It's like, you know, it's a good thing to learn about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we, you know, mainly was about building that set and making it really safe and making it, you know, filled with gas elements, just like you have at the bottom of your barbecue. Sure. A gas pipe with all these holes in it that just starts pumping out gas. So was, like, was crew masked in terms of like,

So they're not inhale too much gas and, like, the active... No, it's ventilated. It's ventilator. Yeah, the smoke, the smoke was created separately. So the gas would come as a clean flame like gas does. Okay. It burns clean. Yeah.

And then the smoke would come from a smoke machine. Yeah. So you have two separate things. And the smoke isn't smoke. It's that kind of oil-based stuff. Okay. It's not really smoke. It's like Rosco fogger, you know.

Bredga incense. Are we lowering people down for real, for real, for a of the... Yeah. Yeah. We built a roof set, you know, it was elevated, but it wasn't real high. It wasn't as high as a natural roof. We had, we had a, was it a cherry picker or something, we had a thing that they, it was a cherry picker that came up to meet the roof line and then the actors climbed in, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it into the cherry picker.

Okay. It was fun. It was fun. It was a lot of restrictions. It was, yeah. It was freezing. It was so cold. And it was cold.

There was no roof, so you were just, like, out and the exposed elements outside. Oh, it's open up top? Yes. Yeah. Okay, I got you. Yeah. There's no, because there's no, you can never build up carbon dioxide or whatever. It is so much fun.

It was like those kind of things, like the White House set in Paradise. It's just like, it's just a thrill. A kid in a candy store, yeah. You're like, this is why we became directors. Okay, so wait, I'm just, chronology. You did one and two of this is us and four. No, no, one. Just one.

Ken did two. Then they did four. Three and four. Three and four. Yes. And then the second season, too. The pool is four. What was right before the pool?

It was going back in time, I believe, like bringing, like the babies had just come. We were taking the babies home from the hospital. And I follow William on the bus. Okay. So there's, yes, because you said Afro-American. I was like, all, I'm mad anymore. I got you. That's what you remember.

No, because at the time, like, we've been so many things. It's been like, you know. Oh, gosh. 134 16 which is Memphis oh it's 16 it's 16 and then come back for 214 which we were just talking about the Super Bowl is that it that's it that's it then you guys got busy doing create and doing all kinds of stuff right yeah I got very sad what I realized that they were coming back I was like what do you mean you're going to do something else

You're not with us all the time. But Dan always would call us and go like, hey, you know, this got this episode coming, you know, this Vietnam thing. And it's a lot of VFX, can you come back? No, thanks. And we were just not available. But he was always, and we really tried to make it work out for the end. For the end.

And we just couldn't, our schedule kept sliding. You sign a contract and they make you do it. I got you. You know how it is. I do indeed. Yeah, we would have love to come back. We would have to come back every season, but it just didn't work out. We'd have to move heaven and earth just to go to the,

the 100th episode party in the parking lot. During COVID. That was a good party. It was a good party. There was things that looked like cake. Remember that? Yeah. They were like boxes of crayons.

Is it cake? Yeah. Are there specific memories out of one, three, four, 16, 116 and 214, that like come to mind specifically for you guys? Well, for the Super Bowl episode. Yeah. you're you at the can we talk about so wait hold on wait wait wait because we're

gonna talk about this in 214 too you asked him the question you asked him the question you know what never mind no no no no you can say it you can say it no go ahead and say i don't understand i know what he's gonna say well the scenes with you with mandy we wouldn't you know yeah experiencing witnessing uh jack passing away you can't say it yeah you can't say it It was very intense. I mean, it was really, it was like the, I mean, I'm sure it was a really hard day for you. Yeah. We just felt horrible making you go through that over and over again. And we just kept on, we got to get me. Well, because we came up with some tricky little directory shot. You remember that? Yeah.

Yes. We put a blue screen behind you so that we would shoot the people running to the emergency room to save Jack in slow motion. Yeah. So that you would be talking on the phone and you'd see these people running in slow motion behind you. The shot is done. And so, like, you're spilling your guts and work. So you wanted, like, yeah, so we felt we felt bad about that. And the moment with the candy bar was so fraught.

You know, it's such a hard thing to pull off. He's so good. And it became, you know, we were so concerned about making sure it worked. Yeah. That we probably did it too long. No. No, no. I mean, we got there.

Chris and I say this all the time. It was the best acting moment in the show. Oh, gosh. Mandy Moore. Mandy Moore. Well, so is the, when you go into the hospital room. Yes. Well, because you guys tell them because she didn't know he was going to be on the bed, right?

I didn't. Right. Instead of show your POV of him, better to see him in the reflection. Yeah. And then we could just hold it and it won't feel gratuitous. So when you guys see Mandy Moore walks into the room, she sees Jack and we as an audience in the reflection of the door. and the glass pane of the door, see his body laying down in the bed, not moving.

And that way, we could just, cameras on you the whole time. Yeah. And you could just do your thing, but because of that, it was like getting the timing right, getting the, yeah, it became a thing. But it was, it was really, it was an intense day. Yeah, yeah, just like Memphis.

Oh, God. But we talked about, by the way, we talked about that making the pilot. We talked about like, well, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna reveal the actual death? And we were sort of, to talk on the pilot just Dan was like what am i going to do and we're sort of like trying to figure it out so like the kind of the beginnings of it were happening while we're shooting the pilot on the set

the rumination is long yeah yeah but then yeah i mean i have to yep and then memphis that was and then dear old ron you know i mean and just like so many great remember like the uh improv scenes you guys they found the the drinking fountains and they're like look guys there's these two drinking fountains. And it kind of has this feeling of like, you know, one was a colored drinking fountain. One was a white's only drinking fountain. I was like, let the camera roll, bro. Let's go ahead. Let's do it. And we would have so much fun. And Ron was like, yeah, I used to try to drink here and everything. I was like, well, I was raised by white people. Let's go here. I'm show you. I'm drinking at the tall fountain, baby. It's my time. This is my time. But like, they would just

find things. Like, it felt very guerrilla. Yeah. We were a really small crew. We're driving around we did a whole you know 80 takes of a scene of and just improv driving from one location to another we just put the camera in the car drove across memphis yeah these these two just kept it going and we used it all and remember the barbershop and i do remember the barbershop in and just just let let it roll really yeah that was so much fun because yeah you're just you know you're not paying attention any continuity or anything you just out there because we were we went there on a location scout and we were talking to the Memphis film board person

and we're like, was the big hotel where the ducks play the body body hotel? They bring the ducks down and there's a guy. And that's part of the story of the episode. We said, was it restricted back when this would have happened? Would black people have been allowed in here? And

she said, well, I know they had a colored day at the zoo. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, they kept black kids away from the zoo. The zoo. And it just hit me like a ton of bread. And I'm like, we need to address this. We need to make this part of the show because it's like, kids wanting to see animals.

Sure. You know? God bless you. Yeah. And we just admit it was great. And to do that with Ron was sick at the time. Yeah. And it was all very loaded.

No, there was crying in the podcast. They're crying all the time. Dan and sister. We try to keep it to a minimum, but it does happen from time to time. Crying in the podcast, my Aunt Rita. Remember, you did that video for me for my Aunt Rita? She was very sick on Death Store. Sully did a video for her.

She just had a 90-second birthday. She showed that video to all her friends. Stop! That's amazing. She did a turnaround when that video came out. It was the video? Yeah. It was the video.

She's the biggest This Is Us fan. Amazing. I'm so glad to hear that. It was such an amazing experience and to have you guys really set. Like, directing a pilot, is it daunting? You guys have done. You've done your own. You've done other people's or whatnot, but like knowing that you are sort of establishing the track that is going to be what the show is going to be riding on. Like you take it seriously, but like, is it scary or you're like, you feel pretty comfortable at this point? No, that's what we like about it. I think, because we don't, we pretty much just direct pilots, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. We did it. And a couple of, and we try to keep the get the show up on its feet. And then we try to like, you know, then show has a life of its own. Creating the world is the fun, the fun part, the style. You know, for me at least. Yeah. But we were. We were. We were. We were. We were. We were. We were. We were. We were. We were. We where, you know, parenthood was going off the air.

And we were like, oh, well, there's a, we were doing our pilot, like, maybe we can get that little slot of the family show. Yeah. And, you know, and Dan and Glenn and I were making jokes on set about DromedyCon. Like, oh, we're going to, this show is going to be a giant hit. It's going to be drama, like, making fun of the fact.

Like, nobody watches Dramedy and large numbers. It's not going to be a thing. Right. And then, and we were like, and then the show came out. And it was very successful. And we're like, what the, who knew? So you had no anticipation. No, no, we thought we were going to get our, we wanted our little corner of TV.

Sure. To do our, the things that we love, which is dramedy, you know, dramatic comedy. And we were like, oh, we just want our little corner of Hollywood to do our thing with Dan and Dan and us. And then it came out and America was hungry for this show. We never know. But you didn't feel like the pilot like, oh, there's something. No, everybody loved it. Yeah.

I've never before had a studio and network so supportive of something. But at the same time, being convinced it's never going to get picked up. Like, that was the entire time. We're like, we know this is never going to get picked up. So let's do whatever the hell we want. That's amazing. I don't remember if it was the network of the studio, but they were just like, Dan, there's no way you can do this every week.

Yeah. It seems unsustainable. Like, you know, and the twists and the things. And, you know, and he was like, he really worked hard at convincing them, like, we can do this and this and this and this and this and they can keep going. Yeah. And they, but they were not convinced until it was, I think, undeniably successful debut that they would, yeah, yeah, go through with it. I mean, because the joke about DramedyCon was that it was like, because that's like, you know, all the only thing that's a good idea is things that have, like, like, conventions like Marvel and, you know, they're like, and like, there's going to, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to. do dromedicons because that's such a ridiculous concept tonight in the james brooks pavilion

we're going we were like and this is just this is just stuff we were doing that is so my cup of tea i was like i want dromed khanmon proathon yeah and so we were we were joking about it and then uh dan had to leave town and he says can you guys take over we're going to do what is that uh the paley fest the paley fest at the theater where they do the oscars in the podek the And we walk out with the cast and it's packed with thousands of people and they're all on their feet. And I'm like, and I'm texting with Dan. I'm like, Dan, it's DramedyCon. That's basically what Paley Fest is for whatever the show is.

I love that. Dan probably didn't even have to be out of town. He just left because he didn't want to do Paley Fest. He was like, you guys do it. More, that was us after this short break. Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website,

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And those moments, that's what it's all about. Give us something that only you guys would know that he would be comfortable with you sharing about Dan. And then one thing he would be uncomfortable. Well, you know what, I mean, because I feel like I could do some things, but like, the thing that I always say about Dan is that he sort of masks his tremendous heart with his incredible intelligence and wit, right? Like, he always, you know he's a smart guy. You know he's incredibly funny. But it almost takes, like, greet. And good looking.

And his cheeks are some of my favorite things in the world. But, like, you really get a sense of his heart when you read what he writes. That's right. Right? Like, he doesn't lead with sentimentality. Like, I think we've seen him cry once. Yeah. Like, when we had that moment during season six, when he brought us all out to the place.

Yeah. And, like, he sort of, like, let it down for a second? For a second. For a brief second. For a second. Or second. So I'm curious from you guys and the collaborations over the course of now three projects. Like, what have you learned about the guy that you think that he wouldn't share himself but wouldn't mind? Because we're going to ask him the same thing about you. I'll ask him. So, yeah. You know, he's just like he makes fun of us mercilessly. He makes fun of everybody. Yeah. He just. Excellent at it. That is his love language. Yeah. I'll come in. I came in the other day. This is a while ago. And I was crying about how much I love my wife. And he just. And most people would be like, oh, that's so sweet. And he was just like, oh, you wimp.

He came after me so hard. And you just love him for it. Yeah, that's him. I mean, he's got this unbelievable reservoir of emotion. He does. You know, and it all, and his stuff, it's just so lovely and warm. But even when we're doing a thriller, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And so, you know, but it's just like he did. He likes to save it for sweeps, though. Well, he just likes, you know. I remember one, this is something fine. I don't know if they'll think this is funny. I remember once we were like, oh, we're working with Tina Faye.

Yeah. She's really great. She's probably the funniest person I've ever met. And he was like, what? Offended. Yeah, definitely. It definitely wrote them. Well, that's the thing about that.

What though? And again, most people just go like, yeah, I've heard. Yeah. She's hilarious. And that's why you guys disappeared after season two. The thing is, he is, like, what I love about him is that he has a very healthy sense of self. Yes. He does.

Like, but it's not something that's ostentatious or whatever. Like, you kind of have to get close to him to be like, oh, this dude knows he's kind of that dude. Yeah. But he doesn't really share that part with everybody. You know what I mean? I think that's a good observation. I think, you know, because he's, you know, he's, yeah. You know, he's got good swag.

but at the same time, he knocks himself down at every opportunity. Better than anybody, yeah. He's trying to, you know, he doesn't want to go too far. He has a moment. He's trying to stay connected to the streets. You guys are both through episode two. He has this thing, and I think he puts this in Cal's voice,

but it's really him, where he says, like, you know, he was so excited to find out that he was better at basketball than you. And I don't think he's talking about Xavier. I think he's talking about SKB. And in my mind, because he'll talk trash. And be like, Sterling, I'm actually pretty good. I'm like, bro, I must treat you like an unloved stepchild. I will

beat your ass up and down the court. And he's like, we'll see. And he gets so sort of like snarky, cool about it. Like, he's like, I'm better than you think I am, Sterling. Yeah, slides it in there. It's fun. You're right, though. He's in every thing

he's ever written. There's one character that is Dan. It's it's Cal and in Paradise. It's Milo Mylo's character in This Is Us originally was a little more

like you know schlubby Mitch you know I think Dan is actually more Randall I think he's more Randall to be honest with you Yeah I can see that

There's Randall in there too There's both for sure Yeah I think he's all over that thing And then but then he did that movie The Guild Trip Yeah that's obviously You know and then him and his mother And everything he writes has something

Yeah Who is he in cars, I wonder? Maiter. Maiter. He's Maiter. He's Mater. Yeah, mostly Mater. That's his cat's brand.

Yeah. That's Dan. Get her done. Get her done. Do you guys want to talk a little bit? Obviously, you're working on a project that I know about. It's called Paradise, what have you. We had a very good solid first season.

Congratulations. These guys directed one and two, they directed seven and eight. So they opened up the show. They closed out the show. It was so nice to know that you were in familiar hands for me, you know, stepping into this whole thing. And the cats are, what I love about people who know what they're doing, right, is that there's never a sense of I have to be in total control of everything at all at once. Like if I had an idea or threw it out, they'd be like, all right. And their conversation occurs in such a natural and easy way that we just sort of like move forward together.

And you guys are amazing, but you're also really amazing at making everybody feel as if they have a seat at the table. So I just want to say thank you for that. This is actually my question, because collaborative seems to be the word. You guys have this balance, right, where it's built, collaboration is built into your creative process just by being a team, a partner, partnership, right? But you're also very well known. for partnering the genres like you were saying dromedy drama and comedy yeah um but i also felt like when you guys were directing i felt empowered in a way that i did not feel empowered anywhere else and that's not to put anyone else down it was just a different vibe and and

and say again soda berg is a hack yes that's right that's right this is what this is why i wanted to said. I wanted to bring you guys here so that you can hear me say. Yeah. What is he done? It's hard. It's hard to explain in our industry that that television specifically is maybe the most collaborative form of creation. It has to be. It makes it, it has, it has, quote unquote has to be, but it isn't always. No. It can be, it can be very isolating. Yeah. You can feel left out. you can feel put down and that goes for anybody not just actor you can feel I've seen directors feel I've seen writers feel that way and so I'm wondering how you got there to this point where where you were so inclusive and so welcoming yeah because that was what

Sterling was saying about your show now paradise because it's not I'll tell you it's not as common as I would hope that it would be yeah I know your answer which is who give his answer and then he'll give it I have a different well my answer is you know we we everything we do is collaboration we're a team and so we don't get coffee without collaborating you know what i mean we like it's so that we just try to open that world of collaboration and bring people in yeah and join us in the collaboration and try to find the strength of the collaboration you know and make people feel welcome to share their ideas and i mean because i just think things get better somebody has to be there to the buck has to stop somewhere

obviously otherwise you're never going to make your day you know but but you but you know but you know Everybody bring your ideas. Yeah. Let's play. Let's play. I'll say also, and this is something we share with Dan, is we are like editing room creatures. Yeah. You know, we've edited a few of our films ourselves.

I came up as an editor, John. It was in post-production as well. But John actually taught me how to edit on video when we were in college. I remember. So that whole process when we're sitting there, we're throwing stuff out and you know you'll notice like I'll stop in the middle of a sentence mm-hmm and then I'll go that's me editing in my head yeah and I'm going okay we could do this we could do this okay well and then I'm thinking back to like

this six takes ago and like okay with and that's a it's important and Dan's that way too like we can have this shorthand with Dan where he's just like just get like just get a shot of this right you know because and I don't have to ask why because I know exactly exactly why he's asking because he's like because he needs him to cut to get this or he needs a transition yeah and uh i think that's a and you have to collaborate you know with editors and all these things and you have to be able to get all that stuff out i felt trusted there's an extreme amount of trust involved in in working with you guys iRIS guy from the nick if he can do an american accent the job is his a few seasons in i finally asked her i'm like

how did i get here like how did and it was because of you two And you two had seen the Nick. They said, you were available. I said, that's that. And I thought, I thought he was. And I was like, what? The Nick is like my favorite show ever. Yeah.

But my question was, you watched that and saw Toby? And I was like, why? I would never ask that to anybody else. I don't want to know why. It wasn't the character so much. It was just the performance. You're completely lovable on that in the Nick. Yeah.

You're like a strong, lovable guy. Oh, right. Yeah. You've done some questionable things. Well, there was, when you guys, when you guys left, I remember the last episode that you guys did because it was like, I had that realization, like, wait, what do you mean? What do you mean you're going to do something else? In season one, because you, are you in 214? Yeah, you are in 214.

Yes. Yeah, okay. And during my last scene, you both separately were like, just so you know, as you go forward in this show, do your thing. Yeah, you guys gave him permission to be like, you all. You know, you're going to know this better than any like. Like director that comes in. All of you are going to know these characters better than anybody. Yeah.

And I just, I don't know, that was a, that was kind of a big moment for me in my career. And I got to have a question for you guys about that, about episodic directors. Yeah. Because we've never directed an episode of TV. Well, they've directed and acted, so they can do it. That wasn't something that we did the pilot of or something like that. But like for me, like I said, creating the world is the fun part, helping create the character and all that stuff

and finding the guardrails and all that. But what does not appeal to me is to be an episodic director is to come in and knowing, oh, these people have been doing this for two seasons. And I have no authority, really, to tell them what to do. So is there an air of collaboration

coming from your side to entertain things or you just want to just trust us? I've often thought about that, too. I'm like, I would, I would find it so hard to be a director going on to someone else's set and just like jumping in with like a well-oiled machine that a crew and a cast and everything knows everything far better than you ever could. But what do you mean? Like in terms of us as actors, like what I always, I feel like I always, because we had like the Ken Olens of the world that were sort of there as supervising director, producers and stuff, that like being able to lean

on them when there was a director that would only come in for one episode. and then maybe never was asked back or couldn't come back or whatever. I feel like leaning on a Ken or leaning on the writer of the episode was something that as time went on, I mean, Chris and I often talk about this. Like, we had never done TV before, this is us.

And, like, I didn't understand episodic like how things just keep going on and we just keep doing this. There was so much, like, to learn. But I found that that was the most helpful, was leaning on Ken, was leaning on the writer of the episode. And then Dan was always available,

and Isaac and Elizabeth were always available, but... Yeah, I just think relationship with the episodic director, I'm just not quite sure how it works. For our listeners, the reason why there's a different director for every episode of television, usually, is because there's all of this prep work that goes into each episode and post-production. And you can't do both.

And you can't do both while also shooting. And so there has to be a rotation. And so you get to work with all of these wonderful guest directors who come in and do their episode. Yeah. But that being said, you get into season three, four, five, six of a TV show. And they've watched a couple episodes, but they're not maybe... As a depth, like, steeped in the knowledge of the...

They usually watch the pilot. And if they do their homework, they'll try... I've heard of directors that are like, I've watched all the way up until my episodes, which is impressive. And their... And their job on a very, like, rudimentary and this is me minimizing it terribly, is to get coverage enough coverage that when they pass that coverage on to the creator of the show who's going to edit it together he has every option he could want or she could want to put an

episode of television together so they're they're getting different colors and different levels and different emotions and they're honestly getting way more options than yeah someone like you or ken olin would get yeah because they are covering for lack of a better bottom they don't covering their asses. And I feel like most people that were on our show that were asked to come in and direct the show were excited to be there. And they were fans of the show. So, like, we were able to just sort of match the energy that they brought. Well, we're early in the process.

When we're doing the pilot and everything, it's like we're trying everything. Yeah, yeah. We go through that process. And then there's this wonderful moment where you're like, oh, they know, they know their character. You see a click in. There's like a scene or a thing. You're like, oh, there it is. Yeah.

Remember on Paradise, I said, that's as, that's as positive as you get. Yeah. You remember that? I do. And so when we're trying to create a new character, we're just old friends and we're just like, that's all I, I think that may be the only note I gave you. I think Glenn on a phone call says he goes like, you know, the two happy stuff is doesn't play as well as the more somber. And I was like, okay. That's years of trust.

And we can short hand each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will say that was probably one of my biggest growing areas as a professional on this show was to allow collaboration with a guest director who I maybe didn't think knew as much as I did. Yeah, I hear that. I'm serious about this scene, about these two people, about where we've been and where we're going, like all these things.

And trying to understand where they were coming from and meet in the middle, I guess. And I certainly got a little like, Resistant. You know, sorry, sir, sir, madam,

I'll take it from here. You once told me a fascinating story that I think there's a, that is maybe germane here, which is you once told me a story where you were on, in Chicago, on the play Chicago,

the musical Chicago, on Broadway, and you were taking over for somebody who had been there, and you were like, you came in for rehearsals one day, you said, and you were able to watch it as much,

you can come and get a free ticket and watch it as much as you want. But basically, all these people who have been doing this play forever and ever, you just come on one day. Yeah. And you're there and you're singing and dancing in front of thousands of people. And I'm like, that's how those directors feel. Right. You know.

Right. Yeah. And to allow collaboration like that to let them, to let them, to let them do their job and to not be a pain in the ass of like, all right, you want to try something different? Great. Let's try something different. Like just to allow, I definitely. needed to learn how to do that more.

You know, it's interesting. Like, I feel like we knew our characters, but I'm always, I would hate it, honestly, when the directors felt afraid to give me direction. Because I always feel like an outside eye is going to be able to contribute at least a thought or consideration that I may not have had myself. So, like, I would get the sense sometimes,

especially in later seasons and whatnot, where folks would be like, just good. And I'd be like, okay. And then I would actually, I would actually have to be like, like, this is what I'm going to do on this take. You know, I would, I would, I will direct myself. I was like, okay, I got that one. On this one, I know that I could possibly do so-and-so, and then I'd do that too.

Because I didn't want them, I always want them to feel like they have their leg to stand on. And then usually on the guest director, and you guys could come in on this too. You're going to get the coverage, but you're probably going to have an idea on a scene or two. Maybe you have like five or six throughout the corset, up is that I'd like to do this shot. I'd really like to do the shot, you know what I'm saying? And so you try to get them all the coverage or whatnot, so it's like, can I please do the shot? You know what I mean?

And then it's usually a fight with Yasu, who's our DP? Because the DP kind of supersedes the guest director at a certain point because of the continuity. And I even on a new show that I do, like I had to witness, oh, please, children, can we just get along? Let this person have their shot. Yeah. Just, you know what I'm saying?

And now as a producer, I'm like, oh, God, the kids aren't getting along. Usually, it's a time constraint thing. It's like, you know, you got to get, you know, good guys are doing this every day. We, you know, can't be in long hours. Do you remember, this is a completely different subject. I just was reminded of something when we were talking about John pouring the beer. We're back to that. Being in a moment where things could go really wrong, I remember.

I don't remember what episode it was. But it was the one where Justin was going to be in some Bachelor auction. And I just sort of rushed up to you and I went, tell me what you think of this. You know, a black man isn't going to be envious of getting auctioned off. Yes. And it like came out of my mouth and I went, oh my God, this could go really wrong. It was at that time that I thought Glenn Foucara was black. I was like, you just, he's just passing over here.

No, but that was the other episode. That was the episode because we had Deja. And it was, he was going to the thing that Sophie had asked him to come to, and he wound up bailing on her. And that's when you were throwing out all the odds to Justin. So there was one more episode. Oh, so that was like two something. Yeah, that was probably the last one. Yes, it had to be two something because she didn't come until two.

We just talked about it. Yeah, the introing lyric was our, yeah, and that was it. There you go. I don't remember. I totally remember that. I was like, no black man wants to be auctioned dog. That was the line that you gave me. And I was like, it's a good line.

This is the only time, I mean, I've known you for years. Is this okay? But yeah. But it's like, it's kind of like when you live on that comedy line, it's like, you got to try some shit. You got to try it. Sterling, you know what I think a black man would say here? Yeah.

If I could. I just remember that like, nanosecond felt like a year. As I contemplated it, and it said, no, it's good. It's been nothing but a delight. Gentlemen, thank you for making time. Thank you for coming in,

for reminiscing over the good old days. As they're about to go off and start planning episode 201 of Paradise, this is John Riqua and Glenn Foucar. Thank you. You guys. We always said one thing before I go, We always said what the great thing about being a director for Glenn and I am why I think we were inclusive and make people collaborate, help make people feel free to collaborate, is because when actors are in it, for me and Glenn, it's like we're like a kid at a magic show.

And you guys were the best magic show of all, those early days. Appreciate it. Very kind. Thank you very much. We'll be back with more. That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin. Grinn Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.