That Was Us - Jon Huertas and Us | Miguel Rivas

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

Jon Huertas, aka Miguel Rivas, is with us! That's right, Jack's best friend, and Rebecca's second husband... we'd say, "awkward", but now that we know the whole story, we can say, "we love Jon Huertas and we love Miguel too"! Right? Tune in to hear how Jon handled the Miguel hate that spanned several seasons and the process he went through to land the role. Join us as we pry for exclusive behind-the-scenes tidbits. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to a very special episode of that was us. We have a very special guest in the house today. Everybody's favorite stepdad slash caretaker slash dad. dad's best friend, slash just all around homie. Ladies and gentlemen, we're talking about John Huertas. Welcome to the show. Thanks guys, thanks for having me. Thank you for being here, man.

I want to start off with something that I was asking, we were talking to episode 108, and we were talking how early on in the show, like the public perception of Miguel was not the most positive, shall we say. We could say that. They didn't have the information they needed. They didn't have the information they needed.

It's like if they could flash forward to season 6 and see that Miguel episode. Slow burn. The first question I have to Wirtis as the actor, was that sort of like dislike from the public of the character internalized in any shape, form, or fashion? Did you have any feeling about it as you were going through it and people were like, nah, dude, that ain't right. You shouldn't have got with your best friends. Did you have any feelings about it?

You know, I think, you know, first of all, when the audience reacts, the way that they react, it's something that we as actors can sometimes take personally. Sure, sure, absolutely. And, you know, you learn, when you study acting, you learn that, you know. You studied? I did. I did, a little bit. How dare you?

First of all, how very dare you. But you want people to like your character, even if you're the villain. Like, you know, you want them to, you know, love to hate you or whatever. And so, you know, that reaction was something that was a little bit jarring, but at the same time, as an actor, you like to be challenged, too. Sure. So I wanted to take on the challenge of saying, all right, you guys don't like this character now. Yeah. Can we get them back?

But watch this, exactly. Okay, let's take it back to the very, very beginning. What was your experience, like, being cast on the show? What was, did you read the script? Did you just meet with Dan? Like, what was, how did you go down? Good one. So I was, I was on a show before that.

What was the name of that show? Castle. Oh, that show. Okay. Okay. I'm acting all incognito, we know what the show is. That's where I met you. I know.

I did an episode of Castle when we got a chance to kick it. That's right, that's right. So that show had gone down, and I was like, oh shit. And I needed a job. I need a job. And so, you know, I called started coming in, and I was doing this chemistry. with Justine Makado for...

Love Justin. Yeah, she's great. For one day at a time for Netflix. So same casting director as This Is Us. So you guys shot the pilot. I was still doing cast or whatever. And so I didn't know what the show was. But I kept doing this.

I did two chemistry reads. And Norman Lear, who I think we're going to bring up later, I didn't realize he was in the room when I was doing it. I just thought it was bringing your grandpa to work day. work day. I swear there was an old dude sitting over there with a hat on. And I was like doing my thing with Justina. By the way, I know Justina for like, weird. He got a chance to audition for Lauren Lear. Yes. He's like, who's this old dude in the corner? Anyway. I did. I was like, yeah, I was looking. So I'm talking to Justin. And suddenly the old dude was like, John, can you do it

again? But I want you. Why is he talking to me right now? Directors here, showrunner's here. So I'm looking at this. Again, a little bit. insight into our industry. You walk into these rooms, nobody tells you anything that's going on. They're just like, go in there and act. Right. And it's, and it's lit. You know, it's a, they've got almost, it's like a set. So it's me and her on set. So it's lit and it's kind of dark like this. At no point, does someone say, but just so you know, Norman Lear is. No, we said. No, of course. Nobody, nobody told me a legend. I'm trying to all this. I know. I was like, I got it, bro. Thanks, man. So he said out, he goes, and by the way, it's a sitcom, a multi-cam sitcom. A multi-com.

Double-spaced words, you know, that's like there's a certain style of acting for that. Right. And so he was like, I want to feel, I want to feel like you're trying to rip her head off her body. That was the note. Intense. That's the Norman Leandro. Okay. And so I did it again.

And I wouldn't, so I didn't do his, no, I didn't do his note. You didn't do his note. So I just did my thing. I'll do it my way. You know what I mean? I'm making my choices, bro. If you don't like it, cool. Brass ones.

So then I. Brass ones. But I didn't know it was him. So. Because everybody else is liking my shit. So then I leave. And they, I get a call and they're like, yeah, John, they want you to come back and do it again because, you know, everyone loved what you were doing except Norman Lear thought that you just

weren't getting to where he wanted. I was like, Norman, what? That was the old man? Because I thought Norman Lear was like, he was 94 when you were sitting in that room. The hat's the giveaway. Yeah. If you see it all in a hat. That's the signature.

It was either him or Woody Allen. Yeah, exactly. And he's canceled. So I know he wasn't. He wouldn't be in the room. Right. But yeah. So I was like, that was Norman Lear.

Oh, my God. So then I go back. But I still didn't want to, because I didn't want to play a Latin X character. I hear you. That was, you know, an abuser. I didn't want to, like, portray that type of character at that time of my career. So I did it the second time, the exact same way.

Norman was there again. This time I knew who he was. I was like, yes, Mr. Lear. And he gave me the note. He was like, I just don't feel like you want to, you know, kill her. Because it's not on the page, man. Like, it's comedy. So wait, I'm curious. Like, did you say that or did you just say? I didn't. I just said, I'll give it a go. And then I did it my way again. And then as I left and I was like, I don't care. Like, I really don't. Like, I'm

not going to play an abuser. And so as I'm leaving, I'm driving away, my agent's call and they say, hey, can you get to Paramount in 45 minutes? They're trying to add this new character to this show, this is us. Are you kidding me? Yeah. So I was like, and I don't like to go in for anything unprepared. Yeah. I was like, but it was, you know, it was, yeah.

Tells me, I was like, you know, their office and I love them. So they were like, they think you, they think you could do this. And so I drove up there to Paramount and they were having meetings with other guys. Where was the Norman Lear audition? Where was the one day? Sony. But I was driving back to Venice and then I got the calls and turn around and go up to Paramount. Okay, got you.

And so they were seeing people. L.A. Geography. Gotcha. They were seeing people. And I walked in and I hadn't, you know, I was like, is there any material? Do I need to, like, yeah, yeah. And I see other guys there. All the other guys are like 45 to 50, salt and pepper hair and white.

And I was like, oh, they want to make sure they see at least one. So they could say, we tried. We looked at them. That's what I thought it was. I literally did. And they're all looking at it. their side, look all these sides. And you have no sides. So I got nothing. I'm unprepared. I have nothing

to read. Right. And so I go to, I go like down the hall asking somebody. So is there sides for me? I mean, they were like yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll go get you some real quick. And then all the other guys are like. Yeah, just four pages. So they literally handed me some sides and I was like

this is not fair. And like 10 minutes I'm going into the room. And I go into the room and it's John and Glenn, Ken. And Norman Lear. And Norman Lee that? And Dan Fogerman. He has nothing to do with this, that. How did you get hair fashionable? So, all those guys were in there, and I walked in, and then they just started, like, talking to me.

And we started laughing. Dan Fulgerman was like, my dad's a huge fan of yours. He loves Castle. It was this whole thing. And they were like, do you want to read? And I was like, not really. And so I just got this stuff. And they were like, I don't worry about it.

Amazing. Yeah. And then I left. The world's easiest audition. Yeah. Do you want to? No, thanks. No, I'm good.

God, I wish that were opposed to me every audition. I'd be like, yeah, I'm good. I don't want to. This is it. No, and so then I left. What do you need? I left. I got a call.

They're like, yeah, man, you're the one. They're gonna put you on the show. And then I was like, so then I was chilling for a couple of weeks. You're like, God, this job is so easy. Right? I've been trying too hard. That's the problem. And then I get a call.

They want you to go up to the valley, Deep Valley, to this makeup, special effects, makeup house and they're going to do a life cast I was like why this isn't Star Trek this is this is us I watched the trailer I was one of the 50 million people that watched the trailer yeah it's there's no there's no I'm not an alien what the and so I go up there and I'm like I'm asking them when I get there I'm like why why are you doing a life cast and they're like oh but for the old age

makeup and I was old age makeup they're like yeah for you you know you're married to Rebecca in the future I'm like they think I'm Milo no I'm I don't I play Jack. I play Mike. Mike. I play Mike. That was him initially. Michael. Michael.

Michael. I played salt and pepper hair. And they were like, no, no, no, no. You're married to Rebecca in the future. What? I didn't even know. That's how it was broken to you. Yes, I broke it to me while I'm getting stuff slathered on my face. You probably knew before a lot of money.

You knew before I did. That's for sure. Oh, really? Yeah. Clearly. So that's how I got on the show. This is, that's the story. I see you guys later.

That was it. That's all we wanted. Are you serious? You never read. No. Still, to this day. Because I didn't have any time to prepare it. Well, no, no.

I was gonna look like an asshole. But the vibe, like, did you know anybody else in the room before? Did you know John and Glenn? Did you know Dan? No. You knew nobody. You just knew the cast. But you just charmed the hell out.

Did you know that you just done 12 seasons of a hit TV show? They knew that. Yeah. Yeah. Eight episodes. Eight seasons. seasons of the show. Don't worry.

I know how to do this. But I will say this. Like, John is kind of that dude. Like, John is anywhere you go, you'll be like, oh, you know where it's this? You know my boy where it? Like, John is that connector wherever you are. You are the mayor of this town and this industry. It's true.

It's true. I can attest we all picketed during the SAG strike last year together quite a bit. And you couldn't, we couldn't walk five feet without somebody being like, John. And any event I go to, I'm just like, John will probably be there. Yeah. Or you meet someone. Oh, that's right. Someone will come up to me.

They'll be like, I'm really good friends with somebody that you worked with. I'm like, John Mertes? Yeah. They're like, yeah. I'm like, you're just that guy. You are an affable, kind, genuinely curious human being. So I'm saying that you being in that room of all people not to have to read, I get it. It makes sense.

And a man with a constitution who could handle the first season or two. of the Miguel unveiling. Runt. So you guys were saying he probably just left it off, but you're saying like, no, you felt it a little bit. I mean, I felt it, but I loved, I wanted to embrace that challenge. Like, it's like, yeah, let's turn them around. Let's figure it out.

Like, it's going to be fun. And was there any solace provided to you by Dan or the writers of, like, this is where the story is going? Like, be patient or just like stick it out. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Dan, I would have. I would have a sit down with him at the beginning of every season and Isaac and Elizabeth as well once they took over. And we would just talk about like, you know, they would assure me like we're going to, we're going to turns people around.

It's such an interesting position to be in because the audience response at first is literally because of nothing that is circumstantial. Just because of the circumstance that they see. Every time we hear you speak, every time you interact, you're a great, this wonderful guy. and then you're putting this like fast forward position of like wait what the fuck is happening here what is happening here yeah there was that conspiracy floating around for a while sorry oh yeah i mean people think that oh yeah i mean people thought a lot of crazy things i kept saying it on red carpets because i got tired of and asking you're like what's going on me all and i'm like well me go clearly killed jack and they would and they would be like really

I'll be like, no. No, guys. Guys, no. Stop. And I go like this. Wink. I'd say wink and then I would wink. And yeah.

You, so this is interesting. You, along with Mandy, are like the only people that really got a chance to span timelines. I would ask Mandy this question sometimes in terms of like, what's the difference in vibe between past and present or whatnot. Let me ask you the same thing. Like, when you guys are back in the day, is it a completely different vibe than when you're working with like the the adult

Pearson's or whatnot or like is it similar or how would you describe differences similarities I don't think it's I don't think we approached it that differently because of the not the approach but the vibe oh the vibe was definitely different yeah I think it was definitely yeah I think it was definitely how I'm asking like how would you describe the difference I don't know well do you remember when we first were in our old age makeup yeah and we were like all right how do we play old people older people and we kind of didn't like because you know there's the saturday night live version where it's like hey come here we're not we didn't do that but we talked about it and we did

and I think we like I would just stare at Steve Beers and just soak it in soak it just watch him move watch the way he eats explain who Steve Beers is Steve Beers is has been working in television since 1932. He is a legendary television producer. He is legendary. He worked with a lot of people that I worked with before, but he like worked on the 18 one kind of six. He worked on the 18.

Yeah, I mean, he talks about that a lot. That's 70s. I mean, that's like 21 Jump Street. So he was the, you know, the elder on our set. Like he, if anybody was going to be a model for me, yeah, it was going to be him. I didn't ever know that, John. Yeah.

I would, that's why you guys didn't see me always talking to him. You just hanging out in the production office, just like looking in his office. Hey, I did. Yeah. But also, I think we talked about it. We were like, if we could just take our time, like, we know that people who are older take their time with everything. When they speak, before they answer, they would just. So I think that was like the vibe. It's like we just won't pick it up.

Let's go. I will say, my experience was. We didn't have too, I mean, over the years, I guess we definitely had like some time where we were together as like younger people was Jack and Rebecca and then obviously you were with Shelly. Yeah, wild times at Frogies. Yeah, totally. But there wasn't a ton of that, like when we work together, it usually was present day. Yeah. But I feel like the set with Milo and the kids and stuff was always a little bit more like let's get down to brass tacks.

Let's do the work. Sure. It was way more of a party. I always felt, I was like, oh, we're with everybody, we're present day. Even feeling encumbered with the makeup and the process and being there so much earlier and all of that came along with it. It was always like, oh, I'm going to be with John and Justin and Sterling and Chris and it's going to be a laugh a minute. Like we're all going to like really...

And you were trying to keep your face wrinkles glued on. I would try to like not laugh so much because I was... Which is a real insult, which really got John. going. It would make me try harder. Yeah. Like, stop making me laugh. Or smile.

I'm going to pop those prosthetics. Whose process is longer? Mine. How long do you? You'd started at what and they ultimately got it down to what? It started at like... Six for me. Yeah, yeah, same.

It was like five or something. And it ultimately got down to like three and a half. Five hours? Mine was three. John's was a little bit quicker. You started at five hours? Yeah. I started six hours because they were acting like foods.

Was it the hair or was it the prosthetic? It was everything, the hair, the prosthetics was all like a, the whole process was long. It became a well-oiled machine. Yeah, it finally became, and they also- You did request those full body prosthetics just to get you in the character. I wanted my knees to be bowlers and stuff, yeah. Just your knees, yeah. I don't care if the audience can't see it.

Bunions. I feel it. It's my character. I got to feel, I got to be in him. Bunions in your shoes. But yeah, but yeah, I think they, They put a lot, like at the beginning, I had a lot of prosthetics on. I had like a full on jaw thing.

So they light and everything. You had the waddle. I remember the waddle. Yeah. But I came in once at like two in the morning to start my process because it was, yeah, like first season or second season. I went to, who call was at seven? I went to lunch. Because sag after.

I had to go to lunch after six hours. So I'm at lunch while everybody's at breakfast. And then at work, John was on child after time. We only have them for three hours today. You didn't have a two o'clock call? It was like, you know, two or it was three? I remember. You had a three separate before.

Nope. When we shot the therapy scene in season two, it was a two-thirty call. Two-thirty me, it was two-thirty. Two-thirty because of light, daylight hours. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. That's the earliest I've ever been called. I don't complain again.

It is what it is, but. I don't, but like, anytime I think to do it, I was like, maybe, and two and two-thirty. John, John was my, you were my comrade in this, like, I mean, I mean, We did this for six seasons. And John, I mean, you guys got a little flavor of it at the end, but like, this was our every day. And John always had the best attitude, but also I love that John, you were like, rip it off. At the end of the day, you were like, I just, I don't care.

I'm like, I didn't protect my skin and you were like, I don't care. She wanted to do like a spa day at the end of the day. I'm like, I've been in shit for 12 hours. Like, what chemicals do you have? I want that one. Yeah, yeah. That one's got the skull. Is that lies?

Is that lies good to get it off? Yeah. Put the lie on my face. Remember, I would get out of there in like 10 minutes and she'd be like, where's it going? I was like he's done? Like half an eyebrow messily. Javel came up to me, he's like, hey man, I got like crowing feet. I ain't got no, no crow lines or whatnot.

I was like, what the fuck is this makeup doing in my face, man? I don't know what's going on. Oh, it ruined me. Same. You guys look fantastic. Oh, you're kind. Nothing is ruined. The money is perfect.

Perfect. All we could talk about, like, we're going to get CO2 laser treatment. It's going to be on the production. We never got it. Never happened. Resurfacing. CO2 resurfacing. Yeah, you're going to fix my skin for this. Yeah. Didn't happen. It did not happen. Didn't happen. More that was us after this short break. least fun thing you can do with your bank account is overdraft. I'm sure many of us have had those times in our lives when we thought we had more money than we actually did. You wound up overdrafting and then you have fees for not having enough money. They charge you money for not having enough

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That's Airbnb.com slash host. I want to fast forward a little bit. So for fans who are only just like watching along and they've gotten up to like 109 or what have you, I'm going to fast forward because I want to talk about Miguel and sort of like the arc of his character and everything that he went through and where he ultimately ended in terms of fan appreciation as well

because I honestly do think, did you feel the love in the end? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I got so much, you know, love after the Miguel episode. I mean, so many people reached out and they saw, like, themselves in the character's story, especially when it comes to the, you know, the caretaker storyline, but then also the being Afro-Latino and like, you know, some, you know, finally telling a story that was pretty complete around that kind of identity.

Can I speak to it a little bit? Just for a second, if I may, because we all watched that episode together. Dad had us, I mean, we should come back and do a whole other episode just to talk to you about that episode. Oh, we will. Absolutely. When we get there, for sure. But we were at, what, what resort did he have? Santa Cedro Ramps? Yeah. Yeah, we're at the ranch, whatever. I can only come up for the day, for some reason or not. But I'm so happy that I did because we all watched, we watched two episodes together. And the first was 615?

Is that, is Miguel's episode? And it was, tell me how you got the director, because this was pretty cool story, because it was our girl. Zetna. Zetna. Who had directed like a couple of episodes before. And I think you saw her at the Paramount lot. And it's like, yo, we got this episode coming up, like you should direct.

And she being Latina as well, I think it was like a perfect sort of symbiosis there. Yeah, but she wasn't directing, she was taking a break from doing episodic. She was trying to just do pilots and features. She was like, yeah, my agents don't really want me. And then I'd said, this is an episode that speaks to who you and I are. It's a lot of Afri-Latino elements in this and it's all Puerto Rico all the time. And she was like, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she said, let me talk to my people. And then I told Dan and Jess, I was like, hey, I saw Zeperno And they're like, we can't get her. We've been trying to get her back. And I was like, she's coming back, y'all. Because she talked to the man. For John. She talked to the mayor.

The dude who does not have to read when they thought he had to read for shows. That episode, I mean, the capturing of an immigrant experience in terms of like what America means to then, seeing sort of like the sort of divide between where you came from and where you are and how to sort of like meld those things together. Because at a certain point, they don't go together seamlessly. It's like, am I going to be like a capitalist sort of like seize the day sort of American person or from a cultural thing like it's more of a community-based sort of thing. And those two things are at odds with one another. And to see your character sort of go through that and sort of become estranged from his family

to a certain extent and then also be like, why did you bring me here? Like you can't, you brought us here so that we could have, take advantage of everything that this country has to offer. And now it seems like you're sort of resenting that part. But you want to speak to it a little bit? Yeah, I mean, first of all, Johnny, who wrote that episode, did such a great job. You know, we, you know, in the writer's room broke the episode, broke the story. And I remember just talking about all the ideas that we wanted to try to, you know, like a list of ideas, like for the episode that I thought three of these will make in the episode. And somehow Johnny got almost everything in there.

Wow. So that was a big thing. And a lot of it came from, you know, my own personal experience being, you know, an Afro Latino from, you know, moving from one city to another and having to kind of give up a piece of his identity to fit in and not be bullied or to hopefully, you know, make something to myself. And, you know, the whole blow drying my hair thing was, you know, from an incident where this kid called me pubic head. because the hair on his, my head looked like the hair on his, and on his penis. Well, the hair doesn't actually grow on the penis. We understood.

The nickname was enough. You know what I mean? So, anyway, I, you know, got to fight and I got in trouble and, you know, started blow, well, the fix was a woman who my mom knew blew dry my hair straight and now he looks more white so he won't get picked on. So then I did that every day through high school. and uh i need pictures by the way i don't need to see this um i'll have some pictures when i do my one-man musical um but uh i you know i i uh you know gave up a piece of myself

to appease you know oppression this assimilation and so then that's so we wanted to kind of try to you know bring some sort of element of that into the Miguel story and to show that he's like giving he gave up a part of who he was to become a capitalist and And, you know, if you remember, and especially in season one and two, like, he was always trying to get Jack to kind of toe the line and do the same thing. Like, hey, man, it's going to be better for your family if you got to join the country club or you got to, you know, all of these things. And what was great is, you know, Jack didn't really give up himself like that. Yeah. And but Miguel was. And he lost his family due to it.

And, you know, I like that Miguel ended up having a full kind of circle moment. Because once, I think once Jack died, once he started getting too close to Rebecca, he had to go and find himself. Yeah. So that when he comes back, he's a better version of himself. Absolutely. And he's, you know, even more wealthy. He is the most interesting man in the world. There is this article that we got sent or that I found the other day.

There's this thing. Did you, that's in this to you? No, I saw it. I saw it. You saw it. Someone said it to me. This Norman Lear Center on This Is Us, Caregiving Storyline, this is what art is supposed to do.

It's an exclusive. And they're talking about just how it sort of opened folks' eyes to what caretakers go through. And it's like we don't have enough depictions of it in art or what have you. My mom has ALS. We have, you know, caretakers for her around the clock or whatnot. Like, it's a thing. And I'm blessed to have a certain level of resourcefulness as the Pearson family is, blessed to have a certain level of resourcefulness than not most families do.

Yeah, they talk about that in the article. They talk about that in the article. Like, it's like, we got to show people who are like, who don't have all these resources also, like what they have to go through in order to make it happen. It was opening people's eyes, but the study was, it was interesting because because of our social media, it was the first time that they were ever able to measure this issue in a way that they had never been able. They couldn't figure out how to gather the information.

they needed to make a case for paid leave, for elder care, for all of these things. And because of this storyline, through social media, they were able to come up with numbers and come up with people's like opinions and stories. The social impact that this particular storyline had on the conversation at large. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah.

So I just want to go back to the reaction, back at the ranch that we are all in, because we'll go into that But like when your tree, there's the tree that is sort of representative of you, which means that you have passed away, right? I let out this sound that I didn't recognize with myself. It did at the same time, right? It was like me as I heard, like I heard myself going, ah, ah, ah, that's right. And then I heard Joe, ah, ah, ha, ha, he feels it too.

Yeah. And we got about that episode, everybody in the room. We're speechless. It was so beautiful. It was so emotional. I'm wondering, like, it must have been a good feeling to be front and center of that episode. It was a really good feeling. And it was, you know, it was, what really felt good is that the execution of that episode to me was near perfect.

It was like the direction, the writing, the casting, everything was. It was just, and proof positive was the reaction that you guys had and that I had. Because I didn't even cry that much watching this as us. I cried, I think, I think a total of three episodes that was one of them. Really? Yeah. You should try rewatching it because we are a mess. It is hitting different right now, for real, for real.

All right. But that one got you. That one got me for sure. It was audible. Like it was like, I was like, I've made a fool of myself. And then I heard you and I was like, it's going to be okay. But to be able to share that all together was so special too. Because there are very few moments where we actually gathered as a group to watch the show

and like celebrate the fruits of our labor. And it just the culmination of, you know, six years, over a hundred episodes of all working together and to see your storyline and sort of wrapped up in such a profoundly beautiful way was just, it was very, a memory I definitely will cherish. Yeah, me too. Are there not necessarily scenes, but in terms of experiences of the show throughout the six years,

like anything stick out as particularly memorable, moving, funny, what have you, or even just like just the interplay of how it all went. Like, what sticks out to you? I mean, everything is so, every moment was just amazing. So everything kind of blends together. I mean, I think,

there's one scene when we're at that when we were in Pasa Robles and you and I were like in the back of this building kind of overlooking this vineyard and it was just like this

this kind of like bonding moment between a stepdad and his stepson of course right after that we ended up getting into an argument but before that it was like just the beauty of this place that we were filming in and the moment

it's just an image that is like plastered in my brain somewhere. There's a lot of good Randall Miguel moments in that final season. Randall always was okay with Miguel. Yeah, yeah. Like there was a deep understanding of the role he played in their lives and the life of this family.

And there was, I think, the recognition of how happy he made Rebecca. Yeah. That it took Kevin a long time to get there. So the beef between the two of them was different in terms. in terms of like how best to care for my mom. Correct. Which happened later in life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That happened later in life. But the initial, there wasn't that same initial rub that there was between Miguel and Kevin, which we just were watching back the Pilgrim Rick episode, which is where Miguel asked to wear the pilgrim Rick hat and Kevin just like shuts him down immediately. Hey, Kevin, I know you guys. I was just wondering if this year, you know, could I wear a hat?

Is that how many of your talk? I don't know. You played him. It was a choice. That was a choice. That didn't sound like Steve Beers to me. There was much quicker. Much quicker.

When we showed his episode, we have to show one shot of our dear producer Steve Beers so that folks understand. What we're talking about. Oh, terrible. I love that. But we spoke about the moment when he offers you the hat and the look on your face, it's just like, it was the first moment where I was like, oh, there's a story here. Yeah. Like, like, I want to know more about this man. The audience doesn't know, there's a lot they don't know about how these two have ended up together.

But that look that you give him when he offers you the Pilgrim Rick Hat, because you just know how much time has passed. Yeah. And you can see it all in your face. And it's just, it's a testament to you as a performer. Because it's just in your eyes and it's beautiful. It's gorgeous. Well, it was all on the page. I mean incredible writers, so it's easy.

No, no. No, we didn't. I'm talking about you. with these two and Milo and Justin all had opportunities to direct this is us. You did two episodes? Yeah. Talked us a little bit about your experience

in directing, sir. Favorite actor on the show to direct. Stop. I don't want to do that to you guys. It's fine. It's fine. You don't have to say it. Lonnie. Ding, ding, ding. Winner, winner. That's young me.

Still come. No, which two did you direct? Which two did you do? One was called Four Fathers and what was the other one called? Was that me and William driving? No, that was later. There was one with you and William. I felt like they had.

Driving was when he came back after he had his lung transplant, he was like he was much heavier. We were trying to match something from like season two. So let's say that a little bit. So Ron Seifist Jones successfully had a double lung transplant. Incredible. That's incredible. and was able to extend his life to the place where he could go do a play on Broadway.

You know, and like Mandy mentioned this before, Pilgrim Rick, we'd have to take breaks when we were doing these walks because he would get tired. At the end of the season, he had these oxygen tanks that we just sort of incorporated into the show. And so he carried him around. And so the fact that, and it's experimental. Like this was, it's not something that had been commonplace at the time.

He got the double lung transplant. It worked. I think a certain, like, nutrition, et cetera, filled out. And he, you know, his face got round there. He just looked alive again, you know? And he goes, yeah, Sterl, I got cheeks, man. He starts smacking his butt and smacking his face and it just felt so lively. So when he's talking about trying to match, it's like, he was a wisp.

He was a buck 20 soaking wet. Got him to like 150 or something like that. Yeah, and we were shooting something that was a direct cut from one of those driving scenes. Yeah. It was incredible to, first of all, just direct him because he was so, I mean, a powerhouse of an actor, right? You know, my experience directing on the show was, first of all, you know, you guys are all so talented and so good. Thank you.

Especially you, Chris. And I was like, I'm a first-time director. How are they going to feel? Sturney K. Brown, multi-em-winning. Taking some director from John Weirtas. externally let me talk to you about this moment yeah i thought he was going to look at me like that was a weird choice that you made i thought he was going back over there to the chair but he was very very very open we'll be right back with more that was us we are officially in the home stretch of summer

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You get to a place, or at least I'll speak for me. Well, you get to a place, all right, if they don't say anything that means they like what they see, I'll just keep along that or maybe I'll play around a little bit of what have you. I'm going to check in with the sound guy see if he liked it.

Was it good? Did I look cool? Did I look cool when I said? But I'm wondering, just because you brought it up, I've never been in a place where a director has come up and I'd be like, why are they walking up on me? I've never been like, no.

I'm curious to, because an outside eye, I can only do so much. I've been on a show where it was like that. Really? A couple times in a castle. Why is this? And this director would ask me, hey, can you, you know, try this? And it's something I know I just did.

Yeah. But they obviously, you know, because sometimes when you're directing, I will say this, you know, you've got three actors on, you know, it's a wide shot, right? You're three actors. And I'm watching, you know, I might watch one actor. I'm focusing on this one because this is like kind of the fulcrum of the scene or whatever. So I'm watching this, but then I might, you know, and then I would say that maybe when I would be like, why this person walking up on me

is because I know that they probably weren't paying attention to what I was doing. And now they're saying, try this. And you did that already. And I did that already. And then I'd be like, so they'd walk away and I'd turn to the guy

with him and partner, Seamus. I'd be like, I'm gonna do the same shit, watch this. And I would do it. And then I'd yell behind the camera. How was that? Was that what you were looking for? That was perfect, John. Thanks.

And I'd look at Seamus like. So there were sometimes when I would be like this. You'd never heard. Have I, on this is us, I'll say. That explains your fear, by the way. Yes, that's what you're going to do that. Exactly. You know what I would never do this.

It's true. I don't always be like, even if I didn't understand the note, because I've had moments of not understanding a note. And what, and I'm curious how we all deal with this, because in my mind, I'm like, all right, they said this. That doesn't make sense. Now I have to figure out what it is that they mean and see if I can. And then I'll go ahead and. do something. And then I'll ask him, is that what you're talking about? Nine times out of ten, I wind up sort of like getting hit in the ballpark, yeah.

No, but that'll work. Something, you know what I'm saying? Because I just never want to, the process I'm keenly aware, as the one person who didn't direct of how much responsibility is in the director to make the day, right? To keep this ship moving, to get their shots, et cetera, et cetera. So like, if I don't have to slow it down, I'm going to do my best not to slow it down. If I really don't understand, I'll be like, hold it. Let me say it one more time. I may do something like that. But only if I just have to like figure it out. Yeah. And that's the thing. You don't want to like, you know, you don't want to be the one bogging it down. Like if you, because and that's why I always say like to directors that

are coming from behind the camera or coming from the editing bay, I'm like, yo man, have you taken an acting class? Because it would be really, you know, beneficial if you knew our language. So if you want to get something from an actor to understand how to ask them for it, instead of saying, like, you know, can you do it again? But maybe this time, I don't know, faster or, no, maybe slower. No, you know what, if you, let's just do it again. Although, I have gotten the, we're going to do it again just faster. Oh, yeah.

Let's take the air out. I never understood that until I directed an episode, right? And I got into the edit and the first person I called was John. I was like, John, when we were shooting this thing, it was great. And I'm watching this, it is garbage. So slow. I'm like, John, these are amazing actors. And what I have done is made garbage. You did call.

We talked about it. And I was like, I don't know what to do. And it was the first time of my life, I was like, that's what directors are saying when they're like, just one faster. Or can you paste it up? Because faster is a trigger word. Can you paste it up a little bit? Just to remind everybody on set, we're trying to get this story into 42 minutes.

Okay, great, let's go. Let's take the air out of it and let's do it a more time. Take that pause up. Clearly, you loved directing so much because you've really gone on and made that like a huge part of your life now. And so This Is Us was like your first experience directing. Yeah, an episode of television. Yeah, yeah. Got it.

Got it. Just traffic before that. Yeah, it used to be a... Get out of here. Air traffic control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You shadowed Olin, I remember because we were doing, we were at the cabin again. Like, wasn't that the first, when you shadowed, were you shadowed Ken?

No. Yes. It was when we were introducing, it was the wedding of Kate, wasn't it? Toggy and Kate? Yeah, you were out there at the cabin. I think you were shadowing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.

That's right, yep. What things did you learn from Ken not? This is not a safe space. You got to speak in complete sentences. It's fine. Ken doesn't know what a podcast. Yeah, Ken doesn't know we're even doing a podcast. Yeah, Ken doesn't know what the podcast is.

You're right. No, I learned a lot of great, a lot of great stuff. Look, he's so great. It's so great. I did. You went on, you did Justin's show up in Canada. Tracker. Yeah, Tracker.

Have you done anything? I did the company you'd key. You did the company keep with Milo. A couple of episodes of the rookie, rookie feds. Okay. the irrational. Are you at a place now? Is being in front of the camera still something of interest to you?

Only if it's something that a friend is doing, something very, something very, very interesting or something I'm developing. Okay. I like being behind the camera. So you're not trying to be for hire as an actor. Not as much, yeah. I mean, it's got to be something cool. Like I'm doing an animated show, which is cool.

For Disney, that's, you know, that's a lot of fun. It's a Latinx show. It's with Rita Moreno. I'll best be doing that. Okay, okay. That's, you know, it's, like, it's got to be really, really interesting for me. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not really guest starring on shows or trying to, trying to get another, you know, long run on a procedural or something like that,

unless it's something that I've developed. We have a couple of shows set up when I, like Amazon and Lionsgate, so we'll take them out and see what happens. Okay. You'll go in, but you're not going to read. Oh, yeah, I won't read. Didn't read for this or not? I mean, that's the person that's, that's been, yeah.

I mean, I'll say hi. Yeah. We were talking a little bit about you, just how endeared you are to all of our hearts. You're funny, you're intelligent, you're kind human being. Like when you are around, I never think that like John doesn't want anything other than the best interest for me and for everybody that is in that space. That's very true. An addendum to that, like you're former Air Force? My Air Force?

Mm-hmm. How many years? Four years? Eight years. Eight years in the Air Force. And you were there and you were like doing some sort of like, did you get, go to acting school from the Air Force? Like is that?

While I was in the Air Force, I studied in the Air Force. Yeah. Musical theater. Yeah, because they paid for it. For most of it. Now, you guys know about Amanda Lee Moore and about Chris Sullivan and their vocals. I'm surrounded by beasts. Like, where to just be blowing.

Yep. It's true. For his 50th birthday party. Oh, the best. Like he got up on, like everybody's just kicking it, drinks, and everything. First of all, like, John built, like, his house. Designed and built. Designed and, like, we're not, and this is not, like, hyperbole.

I have ADD, that's why. That's not. But, bro, like, the thing, but you could use it to just do video games. Like, you go and build stuff, you know. You are an entrepreneur. You have, you know, many buildings, like, um, you could do anything. buildings like for rent throughout the country and then you just you have a home he's a beekeeper he's a beekeeper dude will come with his honey this is us honey with this is us honey like what what

make is it you say ADD but like what makes you what do you say is the special sauce that really contributes to you just wanting to know a lot about a lot of things I don't know I think there was too much it's just thousand island we call it special sauce but it's I mean I think you know You know, my grandmother died when I was pretty young. She was, and, you know, mortality, I've kind of looked at mortality a long time ago and realized, and really, like, you know, when I read that the average lifespan for a man is 74 years. 74. I was like, I got to get to work. I got to, I want to see and do and try everything this planet has to offer.

And so, you know, I want to go see things that travel. But then I also want to try things. I might not be an expert at anything, but I'll be pretty good at a lot of things. Oh, yeah. You're not afraid. Your full knowledge of something doesn't keep you from putting your foot in the ring, throwing your hat in the ring and giving it a shot.

Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, I know that the best way to learn is from failure or from mistakes. So even if I do try something and it doesn't work out, that I've learned something, obviously. And it's going to be a piece of information that I can always come back to and use in life. So, yeah, I want to try everything.

Do everything, except golf. And I really don't know. You draw a line. That's a perfect way to end an episode. Except golf. That's a storyline. Thanks for listening. That was us.

Listen, we've only had a few guests so far And we're gonna hopefully have like the whole cast at some point in time But like you're one of my my favorite people Same, same about you guys Like it's the absolute truth like the guys It sounds so freaking cliche But like we had like the greatest group of people So it wasn't just the story we got to tell

But it was the people that we got to tell the story with right And John Wirtas is one of them people He's that dude. So however you felt about Miguel in the beginning, when it's all said and done, we hope that you came around. Of course. There's no way you could have.

And if you didn't come around. You're made of stone. Like, you made them. Then they're a sociopath. Yeah. They bailed early because they couldn't go that emotionally. They're like, you know, season four, okay, I can't. I can't go.

I'll tell you that. They were like, you guys just kept doing it to me. I just had to take a break. And I was like, we understand. We're there when you ready. But I'm so grateful that I got to do this with you, John. Like, because I think we had such a specific experience together. Yeah, I think so too.

I just like to know that I had a partner in crime like you, to lean on, to go through the prosthetics with, to tell the story with, quite frankly, it was just like, it was so joyful. There was never a moment on set when we weren't laughing and smiling and having fun. Like, even in the harder moments, you know? Yeah. And I'm just like, yeah, I will be forever grateful that the show like brought us together and we got to do it together. It was like lightning struck, you know, like the way that everything, every element of this show, every single department head, every single crew member, every single, you know, most writers, there might have been one, you know, all the writers, all of them. 100% of the writers.

Let's have it real quick social media because Sarah Warehouse, who ran our social media, who's producers sitting over there, she would come up with stuff. This is funny because John is also a former break dancer. Yeah. Like, dude is ridiculous. I was like, oh, and a scuba diver. Like, the list goes on and on and on. Brown has, like, decent rhythms. I was like, all right, I'm about to go murk John up in this dance thing or whatever.

And I go look at the comments and like, Miguel was serving that. It definitely helped that he was 75, in 75-year-old makeup. Yeah, the makeup. Breaking it down. Yeah, exactly. The makeup. High-waisted trousers. Pleaded and sleeted in the front.

I remember one day we were there. We got, we have Mandy to do her go to. move when she went my little toes twist and you were doing something else i was like come on mama it's that was so much fun we had it so we really did we had a blast we did we had a blast we had a blast we had a blast watching us uh thank you for being with us today of course that you have to come back so we can like dive into some specific episodes with you at some point absolutely absolutely i'll be here i live close he lives real close you want to look down the barrel and say that that was us That was us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grinn Productions and Sarah Warehound.

Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.