That Was Us - Josh Einsohn and Us | Casting Director

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

This week on That Was Us, we’re joined by one of the most pivotal people behind This Is Us: casting director Josh Einsohn. Josh reflects on 25 years in casting and shares how he got his start in production, what led him to feel passionate about casting, and how This Is Us ultimately changed his life forever. In this episode, Josh chats about: * His 25-year journey in casting and how he got his start * The role Tommy Lee Jones played early in his career * Working on The Polar Express and The West Wing * Partnering with Tiffany Little Canfield to cast This Is Us * Bringing Jon Huertas onto the show * The pressure of casting multiple ages of the same characters * The urgent recasting of the teen Big Three * How auditions changed after COVID * Casting Griffin Dunne as Nicky * Casting Jennifer Morrison as Cassidy * His advice for actors navigating the industry * How This Is Us influenced his decision to adopt his daughter, Molly" That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - With Shipt, it’s never just a delivery order – it’s shopped same day – in the same way you would. Use code "podcast" to get a year of Shipt for only $49 – HALF OFF the regular $99 price – at https://Shipt.com/offer. Terms apply ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00 Intro 00:02:22 Interview 01:10:13 Outro Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. Who are we interviewing today? Josh Einson. Who is Josh Einstein, Mandy Moore? Josh Einstein is, was our casting director. That's correct. On This Is Us. Yeah.

The only episode he didn't do was the pilot. He was the pilot. So he did not in fact cast us. Yeah, Tiffany cast us. Yep. But he came in shortly thereafter and pretty much is, although he does not take full credit, he says it is a team, a collective, which I'm sure I understand. Absolutely.

But, you know, he's sort of the one that brings in options. Casting directors, it is their job to ruminate, think back on their experience of people they've brought in for other projects and knowing about other actors that are out there in the ether and kind of bringing them the right people to the right parts. So that's what Josh's job was. So some of our favorites on the show, be it lyric, Jan Morrison, who played Cassidy, Griffiths. and done. Both Nickies. Both Nickies, Michael Angerano, all of the children. Yeah.

You know, all of the various ages. Alex Breckenridge. Anyway, that's all right. I'll get it. We'll get him next time. I know. There's so much. It was like that we had a very long in-depth conversation with him. Yeah.

Just about his experience in the casting world. He said he's been doing this for over 25 years. 25 years. And just like what it was like, where he was in his life when he was brought on board, this is us, how this is us ended up impacting his own. life personally. That's right. And some of the choices that he made. And then just questions about like what it's like to be a casting director, because I feel like we have a lot of artists that probably watch the show and are always wondering like, what are they looking for? What are the things

that make a good audition pop, et cetera? Because I know that's something very much in my head. It turns out nobody knows. No one knows. There's no special sauce. There's no secret ingredients. So please enjoy this interview with Josh Eisen. 25 years in casting? Yeah. Congrats. Thank you. Yeah, it snuck up on me.

That's nothing. Mandy Moore's been doing it. How many years have you been? Yeah, about the same time? No. Casting? Casting? Casting for 25 years?

Amazing. I don't have any credits. Obviously, we started when we were two. Yeah. In front of the camera for the first time at age, what? Like, for real, for real? Like 15. 15?

Yeah, 27 years. Almost 30 years. Yeah, yeah. Getting there. You're getting there. First camera job? 2006. Well, yeah, 2006 is the first movie I did.

20 years? Yeah, 21. 25 for me. Because it was 2001. Because you came in on the West Wing when I was there. That's right. You were on the West Wing? No, no, no. Oh, you auditioned for it.

He should have been on the West Wing. I did a special episode of the West Wing. Right, the live. But I did audition. Yeah. Back when it was on the air. I was like a baby casting associate, but I remember. Yeah.

I remember. Do you, really? Look at you. Very clearly. Save it, save it, save it. I feel like I'm already recording. Can we, can we? We're rolling.

We've been rolling. Listen, I want, you know, go ahead. I have so much to say. You said you remember him, him auditioning for, but I feel like that is like an unspoken, huge part of casting is remembering. Yeah. And then when it comes back around, I mean, there are also. projects I work on that are particularly vivid, including This Is Us, where like stuff really

just sticks in my head. And when I was on the West Wing, like, a baby in the industry in casting at that point, everybody who came in was like magic to me. And being in those rooms was magic. So like, I'm sure I've forgotten a lot at this point. But there was a lot I remember about Zoom. Can we roll the tape back a little bit at the Permaudal tape? And welcome our guests. Yes. everybody who has something to say about this show usually comments on the music and the casting.

When they talk about this special sauce of what This Is Us was and so much of that is thanks to our guest today who we've been trying to get on forever. Josh Einsen, thank you so much, casting director. In the flesh. Very strange for me to be in front of a camera. Very strange.

Yeah, usually. behind the camera, trying to find the people that are in front of the camera. I'm going to cast someone to play me. Yeah. There are no, there are no, yeah, today you're being played by Jim Carrey. There are no three people who are more impressed with the casting of the show than three of us. We're very grateful for the casting of the show and your, uh, involvement in.

And we always talk about just how incredible. Like, we can, we can go into specific examples, but like, when people talk, about casting for like young, like all of the young versions of these characters, it is what every single time, in fact, this is a very specific example. We were just, you know, we're deep into season five now. We were just watching an episode that flashes to the future where older Annie and Tess and Dacia are all meeting with their father to see their grandmother who's in the process of she's sick and she's slowly passing away.

And my husband, who was sort of like, comes in and out while I'm watching the show these days, like immediately was like, oh, that's Annie. Like, just to pick out the actress who was playing the older version of, because her essence, the way she looked, it was just so immediate. Not even watching the episode, not even having to place what the episode was about. Casting so good, even Dan Fogelman can't hide what he's up to. There you go. Yeah.

Yeah, you're just like, I know who that is. That's wired. It's true. Like in the, I think Iantha, who played future tests. That's right. To me was so eerie. Yeah. I noticed her first episode.

They caught around her face a lot until... Because it was so obvious. And then they showed it because otherwise everybody's going to know exactly what was sure. Yeah. And I sort of killed the story beat. So the first one that she showed up, she was a social world. with a little boy. Yes.

And then we're thinking that that little boy was possibly going to come and be a part of our family. Because Randall was saying, like, I would like have a little boy sort of thing, right? So it was a good sort of diversion. So they showed it for a second, but then you sort of lingered on the boy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All of that to say. We're so interested to, like, really dig into so much with you because you just did such an unbelievable job job finding some of the most memorable parts and people that populated our show. Amen. But let's start from the beginning, because you were just telling us before we kind of started rolling, that you just celebrated 25 years in this job in this industry. Congratulations.

That is quite the feat. I started in production before that. So I was in production for quite a while and then got to that point where I realized that was not going to be it forever. and a friend of mine was killed, and it was that real wake-up call of like, oh, life's short. Do I want to do this forever?

What do I want to do to honor her? And I really stood back, took a few months, and went, okay, working in production, you get to see everything, which is great. And I thought, all right, casting and editing and the whole post process looked really interesting. And I'd sort of given myself a drop-dead date, and that date, the only casting directors I knew

posted that they needed somebody and hired me. Wow. So I shifted gears. The first big thing I worked on was the Polar Express. Oh, wow. Which is such a cool thing to have my name all that. Is it just voices or do you need people to do this? It was motion capture.

Yeah. It was the first motion capture. So my job was to be on the phone all day explaining. What that meant? And then you feel about ping pong balls. So like my actor is going to be there. but you won't see their face, no. You might not hear their voice, no.

And it's not going to look like them, no. But it's Robert DeMecis and Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. That's what I was saying. That's a good song point. It's a selling point. Yeah. Yeah.

And then my first big TV show after that with a different casting director, Laura Schiff, was the West Wing. Wow. Which was my favorite show. The best. One of the best ever of all time, period. I mean, I thought it was a joke. Like, I was home.

I was napping. I was unemployed. And the phone was ringing back when you had a hardline phone. And I almost didn't answer because of the nap. I was like, I'll let her get a voicemail. And I'm like, grabbed on the last ring. And this one's talking to me about the West Wing. And I think it's one of my friends messing with me because they know how badly I wanted to be on the show.

I don't remember what she said anymore, but I'm like, it's the call. Yeah. What season did you start on? I came out on five. Okay. So just as Aaron left. So I missed working with him. Okay.

but being there and being in those rooms and getting to work with those people and really learning the craft at that point. Yeah. From Laura Schiff and everybody else, just overwhelmed. Can I? No, no, I just, I want to take it back even further, though.

Like, you said you got started in production. Like, growing up, were you acting? Like, how did you, what made you even excited about the prospect of, like, being in production? Where did you grow up? How did you get even involved? Total accident. I went to Washington University in St. Louis. Okay. And what were you studying? I ended up being a drama major. But again, like I was just taking the classes for fun.

And then finally one of my teachers said, you know, you've already completed the minor. Maybe you should just go ahead and commit. But it was really like once I took a directing class, I went, oh, I really like this. Telling people what to do and not having to do it. which is I've made a career. I love it. So that part was great. But I still didn't know what I wanted to do. And one of my professors said,

have you considered Hollywood the way you direct on stage? Like, you kind of need a camera and an editor. I thought, okay. My dad had gone to high school with Tommy Lee Jones. Oh, wow. Really? And I'd met him once. And so I sent a lovely letter.

Didn't think that was ever going to have. And a few days after he won the Oscar, for the fugitive, I got a phone call from a woman producing a movie that he was directing, writing, producing, and starring in and offered a set PA gig. Holy cow! Yeah. So that's, I fell backwards into the industry. And then weirdly, my next gig, I was an office PA, and Luke Wilson, who I went to high school with, walked in. And I'm like, what are you doing here? He's like, I'm in the movie.

I'm like, what? And then he became Luke Wilson. So it was a very strange time to go from writing about Sam Shepard to being on set with Sam Shepard on that movie with Tommy Lee. It was bizarre. And it was fascinating, an amazing place to learn. I'm sure. For years.

But yeah, at some point I decided that it wasn't to me. It's so hard to give anybody advice on how to get into this industry from any angle. because every story I hear is unique. It's unique. And I go, that never happens. Yeah. I mean, I sent it to a PO box in the middle of nowhere. I'm like, this is, I better come up with a real plan.

Plan B. I needed a plan A. Yeah. Hi, this is Rachel from Tommy Lee Jones's office. Kind of. That's so cool. Yeah, so the number of times where I've been in the right place at the right time or unemployed at the right time.

I didn't have a job and that's how I got the West Wing. And then to bring me to this, Tiffany Little Canfield and I had worked together as casting associates on the TV show, Smash. She was in New York. I was in L.A. On the pilot and we became friends. She moved out to L.A. to open a West Coast office

for Bernie Telsie. And we just happened to be put right next to each other going pilot season again and reconnected. So while she was working on this, I was working on my pilot, which did not become a TV show. And I was really at a place of like, okay, I need to be working with somebody. Like, I need, like, doing it on my own. Like, I wasn't getting the projects I wanted. I didn't say anything to her.

And then a month or two later, she said, I got this message saying, hey, what are you up to? And I thought she meant like, let's go get sushi. And she said, no, need some help. and invited me to work with her on this. And all she said, it was a family drama. And I got to say, like, my initial response was, like, boring. Who's going to have cancer this week? Yeah.

And then... And it turns out... On the show. But then she gave me the script, and I went, oh, this is what I've been waiting for and just didn't know. And I immediately knew who's special. So you read the pilot. I read the pilot. She had already cast you on.

So like full credit. I did not work on episode one. That was Tiffany working with Bernie, but she's the magic sauce that assembled you all and everybody in episode one. And she's brilliant and wonderful to work with and wonderful to learn from. And then we got into this series. So I didn't know who everybody was yet. And we jumped right into casting the Littles and Miguel and filling.

out this world and it was intense. Yeah, so much pressure. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. This last week, I just gotten home from a trip and the whole house needed to be restocked. Yeah. But I was going to go to one of those bigger box stores, you know, where I needed a bunch of stuff and I couldn't take either car. Wow.

And so I got a shopper. Yeah. From shipped. There you go. And I gave them a long list. Yeah. A mountain of support. They came through.

And they did come through. And we had to have a lot of back and forth about produce. Yes, sir. Because I need certain produce to be ripe, right when I get it? And then I want something that's not so ripe so that it'll be ripe when I'm ready. I get it. I'm talking avocados and bananas. Yes.

Sounds simple. No. It's not that simple. There is a specificity to the timing. I need you to be picky the same way that I would be picky looking at them in the cart while I'm at the store. They understand that no order is ordinary. Yeah. They see my life.

Yes. Between the lists. I like that. They're kind of reading between the lines about what's this person trying to accomplish with this grocery order? Yeah. I feel like it's not, I'm not just shopping. Yeah. They're creating art.

In a cart. They're creating art in a cart. With shipped, it's never just a delivery order. It's shopped same day in the same way that you would. Use the code podcast to get a year of shipped for only $49. that is half off the regular $99 price at ship.com slash offer. That's shtipt.com slash offer. Terms apply.

Gang, I was looking at my calendar the other day and realized how many trips just sneak up on us. Not big vacations, just work, travel, family weekends, quick getaways that add up faster than you expect. I feel like I have a couple of those trips on the books right now. Like work things that have been out there for, like a couple months and in theory I'm like, oh no, they're far enough away and they do sneak up on you. For me, it's a lot of back and forth. Like when we're working out of town, sometimes I will

book my own stays and I'm like, oh right, I have to be in a foreign city. Yeah. In two days. Yeah. I better get on Airbnb. I better get on it. And every time you take one of those trips, your home is just sitting there empty while you're gone. That is where hosting your home on Airbnb can really make sense, especially now with Airbnb's co-host network. You can partner with a vetted local co-host, someone with real hosting experience, to help take care of your home and guests while you're away. A co-host can help manage reservations, handle guest communications, and even provide on-site support so the stay runs smoothly. And if you have a trip coming up and your home will be sitting empty, hosting it on Airbnb is a practical way to make use of your space and can

earn you a little extra for wherever you're headed next. If you've considered hosting but need a little help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. This last week, I just gotten home from a trip and the whole house needed to be restocked. Yeah. But I was going to go to one of those bigger box stores, you know, where I needed a bunch of stuff and I couldn't take either car. Wow.

And so I got a shopper. Yeah. From shipped. There you go. And I gave them a long list. Yeah. A mountain of supplies. They came through.

And they did come through. And we had to have a lot of back and forth about produce. Yes, sir. Because I need certain produce to be ripe, right when I get it? And then I want something that's not so ripe so that it'll be ripe when I'm ready. I get it. I'm talking avocados. Avocados and bananas.

Yes. Sound simple. No. It's not that simple. There is a specificity to the timing. I need you to be picky the same way that I would be picky looking at them in the cart while I'm at the store. They understand that no order. is ordinary.

Yeah. They see my life. Yes. Between the lists. I like that. They're kind of reading between the lines about what's this person trying to accomplish with this grocery order? Yeah. I feel like it's not, I'm not just shopping.

Yeah. They're creating art and a cart. They're creating art in a cart. With shipped, it's never just a delivery order. It's shopped same day in the same way that you would. Use the code podcast to get a year of shipped for only $49. That is half off the regular $99 price. at ship.com slash offer.

That's S-H-I-P-T-com slash offer. Terms Apply. When WestJet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim-on-d denim was peak fashion. Inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s,

one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at WestJet. com slash 30 Years. Wait, okay, before we get into like specifics of like our show, you said something that I think a lot of actors will find interesting.

You talked about learning the craft of your job, of being a casting director. As far as you see it, like what what makes a good casting director? Like what goes into, because I've gone into rooms where... Please tell us because we need to know. Yeah, how do we get jobs? First of all, there's a couple of things, too. The industry has shifted post-COVID in terms of people coming into rooms and people sort of self-tapes, et cetera. And so, like, going into the room for me was such a magical thing that I, this is my private plea that I'll make public.

I want people to be able to go into the rooms again if and when it's possible. Because it's for our audience. Yeah, let them know. them how it used to be. Yeah. So you brought up Bernie Telsie and the Telsie casting offices in New York City are what everyone listening thinks in their mind. How about a casting director's office? Yeah, it's stereotypical. But total New York too, because you have all the different rooms on the floor. There are seven rooms with doors right next to each other and there are different sounds coming out of each one, musicals and screaming.

Yeah, because they do a lot of theater. And then out in the lobby is just 75 people with nervous, nervous stomachs. Yeah. Trying to prepare. Not have diarrhea. Yeah. Not have diarrhea. And people kind of, now, Chris Sullivan?

Chris Sullivan for hands on a hard body? You know, it's like it's whatever the, it is what you're thinking. It is what you're thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Now, post-COVID, things have gone digital. Yes. We will receive some sides and we are asked to put ourselves on tape.

Right. So we will make a tape of the scenes and send them to the casting director. And there are pluses and minuses to the process. The pluses being, I am now completely in control of the audition. You can do this tape as long as you want to until you get it where you want to. The minuses is the lack of kind of human interaction. Redirection. Yeah, a redirection.

Yeah, the magic is sort of lost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So back to your question, which was the craft of it. In the modern-day craft of casting. And what makes a good casting? Yeah. There's sort of two questions there. To me, one is the craft itself, which hasn't changed.

Okay. Like the roots of it are the same. Yes. And the same, like the roots of acting are the same, whether you're on Broadway or on camera. Like at the core of it, it's the same. Like how you use the instrument is just. same for what we do.

Okay. It's really finding out what our taste is and having a real good lock on that and then figuring out how to bring that to whoever has created a show or a movie and adjust around the edges and learn their taste, because that's what they're hiring us for, is our taste. And to work with them that way. Working with Dan and all the rest of the producers

and writers on the show was great, because they were great communities. communicators about what they wanted. And it was very easy to see, like, oh, this is the world we're making. And it's very, you know, Josh Einstein casting. So, like, what I brought to it was a good fit. And Tiffany hiring me for that was good call. She's a wise woman.

And I think it is so fun. it is not just the big characters to me, the two-line roles, or like the mailman after William dies, who had five lines, killed everybody. Killed it. Yeah, and I still remember the casting session

because I saw all these people I knew. I had to step out for him, my associate, Ryan Timminsky, at the time, had to take the last guy because it was closing a deal or whatever. And he came out, he's like, we've got the guy. I'm like, I don't know, you haven't seen the rest of the session. And it was really good. He was like, Josh.

And he showed it to me. I'm like, this guy is amazing. I had never seen him before. And then the audience reaction on five lines. Yeah. Was. Destroyed. And I love that.

Like, because those little parts still are such an important texture of the world. Absolutely. And you've seen the shows where like, everybody's brilliant. And then here's your water, ma'am. Sure. Oh, right. I'm watching a TV show. And it just screeches to a home.

It isn't. And that's thanks to you. Not once. Not one freaking moment. Thank you. I'm bad at taking compliments. Thank you. But also came from Dan and everybody else.

And when I say Dan, I do mean like the whole. Yeah, I'm with you. Representing that entire group of brilliant producers and writers and directors. That he would say like when things get hard. And I'm sure we'll get to specifics and I'll flop sweat. But like there were roles. where we would be having a hard time finding the right person. And I'll say, well, we've got this.

It's almost. And he's like, it's not what we do. We don't cheat here. We got to get it right. Yeah. Keep looking. Yeah. Good job.

Keep looking. Can you give us an example of that? Yeah, that's interesting. I want to know. I want an example. The first one, and ended up, it's one of those things like the right person ends up in in front of the camera. I had to keep telling myself.

Rachel Hilsen. Oh. Yeah. For young Beth. Totally. Teen Beth. Yeah. Teen Beth.

Yeah. Yeah. So many. We got to clarify. Yeah, yeah. Right. And we found a young woman who actually even looked more like Susan collection. She wants.

Like, really eerie did not feel like her. And we tried two or three times to get her there. And the essence was just wrong. Yeah. And I was really at a loss. And then Rachel happened to be in L.A. from New York. The New York office said, oh, one of the nice things about working for Bernie Telson and everybody else. everybody will give us suggestions.

Hey, we heard you're looking for this. You should see this girl. She's in L.A. right now. She walked in the room. I'm like, that's her. Okay. And then, you know, took her to the chem read where Niles was like, oh, trying to puff himself.

Of course you all. He brought the gun show. Yeah. That was one of the first ones where really, like, I was like, I don't know who we're going to do. Another Blake Stadnick, like talking. about a narrow target to hit. Yeah.

Like, got to be this age, got to look like a person, got to feel like a person, has to sing like an angel, and had to have a very specific kind of visual impairment for the story to work. Sure. That was spooky. Yeah. That's what I mean. You just did not miss. That was, we had to get him out.

I think he said when he was with you all, but we had to get him out of a show that he was in. Yeah, and it was a lot of begging, you know, to make that happen. Yeah. I know you say you need him, but we need him. Yeah. There's literally only person on the planet. Yeah, I'm like, I got nobody else. Here's a, here's one for you.

Like, I want, like, let's talk about Laurel for a second, played by Jennifer. Jennifer. Starts off as like just like a scene on the bus in montage, right? And you don't, at that point in time, you don't know, like, what everybody can do, right? So when it comes back around, like, is Dan talking to you, like, can she act? Like, can she do these other things? Is that a consideration going in and casting?

Like, also the first season, remember the firefighter that comes up with Milo and the pilot? And then he has a whole story. Like, those kinds of things where you're like, I don't know that these people are going to come back around in this universe. But they do. know that at the time? No. No. So you didn't know that with Jennifer either with Laurel?

No. No, as a matter of fact, I remember... We were so jammed up trying to cast that episode. Like, the bus driver talked. Why am I casting the woman in the back right now? Yeah. Who had no dialogue. Yeah.

We had to come up with things for her to do because she had nothing to say. She did, like, everybody loved her on set. We had heard, like, oh, my God, she's great. Sure. But you're planting a seed. You're planting a seed very early on. Well, and this was like at this point, we had no idea what the show in the show. the show was going to be in like all the different tangled webs that they like to.

Yeah, would unravel. Even that writers were in a row of two or whatever it was. Three, I was brand new. And then Dan came back later and was like, so. Yeah. For both of them and Brian, who played the firefighter. It was like, so we got a whole thing we want to do. Can you see if they can really act?

Okay. And I think Tiffany worked with both of those and really kind of took a lot. and really kind of took them for a test drive to see, like, all right, if we really throw stuff at them. Can they do it? Can they do it? And they did. And my God. Like, fantastic.

What an interesting assignment you have on this show. Yeah. Never anything like it. Yeah. Never anything like it. Another nervous wrecked sweat was when we recast the team three. I was about to bring that out. Tell me a little bit about this story because we shot a whole thing.

We shot an episode. I remember. You shot it. Yes, episode seven. We got to shoot it again. Yeah. Because they were too young? Yes.

So casting, Parker, Lonnie and McKenzie had to happen real, like normal casting. You got eight days. Like, go. And they were great, but it was a little nerve-wracking. Like, what did we get this wrong? No time for something that, and that we sort of knew they would be around for a little while, at least. And then so then we had like two months to cast the teen.

big three. Great. Plenty time. Nationwide search. Saw kids from all over the place. Like it was no problem. We picked him, we brought him in, we did chemistry reads, Niles was actually part of that. And I think between his initial pre-read and that, like, he went from like, Niles and Diles and he was like, oh, you were no longer right for these kids anymore. Shot it, thought we were done, moved on. And then I think, I can't remember if it was a phone call or an email. In my head, it was a phone call on a Sunday from Dan going, It's not you. It's me.

But we need to recast them and do a reshoot. And I hate doing it to kids, too. Oh, my God. Like, it just, like, I mean, it's bad enough when you got to recast an adult. But the kids, I was like, oh. And he was like, and it shoots Friday. Oh, yeah. It was such an...

Well, all three of them talked about how fast. So Sunday, he told us, Monday night, the budget was approved, and the breakdown couldn't go out until it was. Breakdown for the three rolls went out Tuesday morning. We had Tuesday to decide who was going to come in the next day, Wednesday, and it's kids, so a lot of them are in school and can't come in until 3.3.30. So we can't even start the auditions until late in the day on Wednesday. We had two rooms going of just like, how many can we see it? Go, go, go, go, go, go.

Got everybody choices that night. They made their decisions. The next day, they were booked and in costumes. and contacts and Friday they were in front of the camera. Had you ever seen, because you'd seen Niles before, had you ever seen or met Hennon or Hanna? Or Logan, yeah. No, and Logan did not share this story and I wanted to kill him.

He almost didn't come to the audition. He had a dentist appointment and I think he'd had like a run of bad auditions that hadn't gone well and he was like, I don't know, what is this, I don't want to go to this. And perfectly Kevin. Yeah. Perfect big kid. I don't know.

I got a dentist thing. It was, he, Hannah read with Ryan, but Logan read with me. As soon as he walked in the room, I'm like, we got it. Like, if this boy can talk, we got it. Wow. And then he read, I'm like, postpone his dentist appointment. He told me that, like, two years later. I'm like, I'm glad you did not tell me at the time because I would have killed you,

and then I would have cast him again. So that was also really spooky, knowing at that point, like where the show was headed and how important it was to get right. I'm like, well, I got one, or we, I say we as a team get like one at bat to get this right. Yeah.

After spending two months looking the first time. So that was also... Well, it's tough too, because we had the confines of like the show was airing. Yeah. So it's not like the days of streaming, guys. This was like every Tuesday at 10 o'clock. Like, the show was coming out.

And so, yeah, we didn't really have a moment to waste. No, I feel like that. We shot that on a Friday in a week from the next Tuesday. Yeah, it aired. Like, it was crazy. So, kudos to the Post Department. It's such a fraught relationship between you and I. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, you have information that I don't have. I have information you don't have. And we have to, we're both flop sweating. We're getting together to try and make this thing work. And it is the earliest kind of collaboration. and for an actor, it is one of the first blind spots to the creative process that you have. Because coming up, if I was ever asked to be a reader for auditions,

I would die to do it. Jump at it. Die to do it. Get me. Seriously, I did it for Tiffany when we were on the air. Did you? Yes, because I'm like, I want to see everyone audition. Yeah.

I want to. see how they do it. I want to see the mistakes they make. I want to see what is successful. Yeah. Because otherwise, I have no idea how this works. Right. I just have an idea of like what I do. I might do this. Yeah. And it's such an interesting relationship to be in creatively. Well, that is, goes back to the earlier thing. The craft has changed. The mechanics of the craft of us have changed overnight. Like that whole week is vivid. We had the rap party Saturday. Yeah, we had the rap party Saturday. I went to Disneyland with my sister and her kids on Monday. And we're all like, yeah, should we be hugging? I don't know. And

Wednesday was Tom Hanks and the NBA. And Thursday was my last in-person audition for years. And Friday, we shut the office down forever. It was crazy. And we'd already been doing a bunch of the really small roles online. I know people like to come in the room, but I feel bad making people, like leave your job, get child hair, care, drive across town, get parking, whatever, wait in a room for an hour to come in and say,

thank you, or you're right this way. So some of those we had already gotten used to, but then we had the big roles now, and we had to get really good at giving a pre-direct and really telling people, we're not going to be in the room with you. This is what to aim for. And if we need to, we still had time to give people a callback

and give them a redirection or Zoom with them or whatever. But we had to be much more proactive on the front end than we had been before. Interesting. Okay, hold on. I have a few questions. Or comments, thoughts, et cetera. This is Chris piggybacking off of you as a reader. I've been a reader a few times too.

And it's fascinating. And even as a producer and watching people's tapes, You can speak to this a little bit, Josh. There are great actors who don't always get the job. There are great actors who have great auditions. Who don't get the job. Who don't get the job. And sometimes it's just not the right fit.

And I feel like it's important for people. Yes. The few times that I have been on the other side of reading with someone, reading with several actors and I already have the job or whatever, it is such a relief to know like, oh, wow, everybody's great. They all bring something different. And you know immediately like, oh, I don't think this is the right person. Not because they weren't great.

It just wasn't the right person for the role. And as an actor, there is such a, like, there is relief in knowing that it's not, like, it's not personal. It's hard not to personalize everything. Yeah, I really, like, I couldn't be on that end of it because I know that no is part. I'm being part of my job as saying no to people. But like, I try to reassure people like, we're. pretty good at our job. If you're reading for this role, you're probably going to do a good job with it. Whether or not that means you're right in terms of getting it over the finish line is a whole

bunch of factors that nobody can really even quantify. So to just really, and it's very easy to say because I do what I do, but you really just have to let that part of it go because then it's the creative part. Like the young woman who was reading for Team Beth, fantastic actor. Her instrument just didn't fit suit. Right, right. And the kids, we had to let go for the teens. Yeah, they were young. The way I frame it in my mind is, if this one thing is true, if I am prepared,

then every job I get has everything to do with me. Yeah. And every job I do not get has nothing to do with me. Right. Yeah. Like, that's the only way I could stay sane. Sure. Like, even this job, getting this job, when I showed up, I was like, this was a near miss

to cast me opposite someone who is almost a foot and three inches shorter than I am. In certain casting worlds, that would be like, well, that's not going to work out. Yeah, he's too tall. That's not going to work out for the camera, literally for the camera. And so when I met Chrissy, I was like, oh, whew, I dodged a bullet on that one. Must have been a little extra funny on the audition to get past that roadblock. But it's got to be a, it's got to be. I mean, every equation has to be unique.

Yeah. So, like, there's, I mean, there are plenty of times where we go into things being like, oh, we know who's going to get it. And then you see it and you go, oh, look what they brought to it. Look what they're doing with it that we didn't know that they had. And how exciting that is. That's the, both the scary and the fun part of our job is when that comes together. It's just so exciting.

Yeah. Like, I love that. You were talking a bit about the pandemic. whatnot. So what do you miss about how it was before? What do you like now that it's sort of moved to this digital thing? Like, what are the pros and cons as far as you see them? When we were in the room with producers and directors, like if somebody would like mess the tiniest little thing up, somebody would say some, oh, they're not great with words or whatever garbage and it made me insane. Or like, I wish they had done this. I'm like, oh, you know what? You're the director.

You could have asked them. Yeah. How about that? Yeah. The number of times I literally had to chase people to parking, into the parking lot, be like, can you come back? One more thing. One more thing. Right. It made me nuts. Literally, there was like a switch flipped.

And suddenly, anybody we worked with was like, oh, they're great. We'll work with them on the day. Yes, yes, you will, as a matter of fact. And that has been such a benefit to making sure the right person is getting in front of the camera. That's interesting. Okay.

I don't know what that was about. You're saying there's greater grace now, in terms of like what a tape looks like and they're not nitpicking every little thing or what? They just know like an audition is not a finished product. I'm not expecting them to be 100% because I have not worked with them. They haven't been on the set.

They have like, Tiffany and are pretty good readers, but we're not you guys. So like putting somebody on set with you is when like, oh now, like it's all coming together. Like we're casting people to work with you, not us. So for whatever reason, that clicked, and that's been delightful. And then the lack of limitation, you know, if somebody happens to be filming in Atlanta right now,

you're no longer out of the running for this part. This is true. You can do a self-tape. Right. Or we'll zoom with you or whatever. And there are ways to be in the mix still that just didn't used to happen. When it was like, well, if you can't get in the room, you can't get the room. Are you still doing some in person or everything is,

online. At the end. Is it usually like when you get to your final two, three? Usually, but not all the time. Like there's some roles where we just know like this is going to be hard. We need to work in person. Yeah, no, like there's no pre-direct we can give. Like, we got to get it in the room and we got to spend the time really working with them and crafting the role. That's just to know that that still happens. You talked about the process of finding our Miguel, our sweet sweet, sweet Miguel. Our sweet John Cortez. His talk about it was just like, And we had a conversation. He's like, I just got a call and, like, turn my car around, basically, to get to Paramount.

I was like, wow. It shows you the compartmentalization, that survival compartmentalization we have as actors, where it was like, listen, man, I blacked out. I went in there. I did my thing. There's this whole process going on. Yeah, behind the scenes. Yeah, what was it?

I will say I was not in the room that day. Okay. That was one of the reasons, like, Tiffany and I split the, I think that was when I was scrambling to find the littles if I remember that. Got it, got it. That's what you said. Divide and conquer. So, like, I think that I was knee-deep in that while she was, like, great. But in terms of, like, his recollection of the day, like, I listened to it on the podcast.

I am a fan. And I was like, it was a cool story to me. I didn't know any of that. Yeah, I was like, I missed that. Yeah, especially on a show this big, there's a real division of labor with the team. So I was, I missed that. It was funny because when we cast Michael Angerano, I called his agent. I'm like, I can't tell you what this part is,

but he needs to do it. He's like, what are you talking about? You can't, bra, rah, rah, bra. And I'm like, I know this is a terrible pitch. But it's a really good part, and he's going to want to do it. Yeah. And then when it came time to cast older Nikki,

like a bunch of us got to Griffin, like within seconds of each other. I was like, oh, oh, same agent. And I called and I was like, I'm doing it again. Trust me? You have to trust me. And then I said, there is only one agent in the entire industry who could figure out what this role is. Josh, you get, right, right, right, right.

I'm like, just think about it. Call me back. And I got text a couple minutes later being like, got it. And Griffin came to play. They have the same agent. I mean, how bizarre. Are you kidding me? That's meant to be.

Yeah. So that was really, it was fun to get to mess with him a little bit too. He's a good day. So that was great. Jen Morrison came and fought for Cassidy. She did. She came and read for it. And I remember thinking when we were putting the list together,

I was like, I think it's going to be her. And I don't know why, but I'm like, I think it's her. And I got to tell her that later. But I was like, I think this is her. And then Dan said, I need to hear this one. And I was worried because she was just coming off of once upon a time. And like hearing her on TV show. I'm like, oh, if she doesn't want to come in the room.

And she did. And it was one of the most vivid auditions I've ever had where I read with somebody who was just so in it. It was magic. And I was so glad that everybody else saw too. What was the scene? Do you remember? It was a few of them. And one was her yelling at the woman about, you've got to tell us who it.

tell us who it is right now, we're going to kill her. Right, right, right. I don't remember the else. Like, that was the one where I was, like, she scared me. Like, I was, like, reading with her was hard in a good way. Yeah, sure. Because she was so in that and seeing her the switch flip on. And she went farther with that than they ended up doing on the show,

which I think would have scared people too much. But it was intense and fully felt. It was wonderful. Here's a question for you. Just to piggybacking off of that. When you are reading in the room with an actor, are you looking at the monitor? Are you looking at the actor?

Are you splitting the difference? Are you seeing from looking at the person, are you imagining how they look on camera? Or is it like you have to go back and look at the tape to see and notice what happened between two people and then how the camera picked it up? I always have to go back and watch because there's always little stuff

that the camera gets that you don't. in the room. I'm going back and forth, but I'm trying to stay engaged. I'm trying to get you... Like, I'm not an actor, but like I said, we're pretty good readers, and we want to be present for you so that you're just not reading with the top of my head. Yeah.

As much as possible. Sure. And we're not going full out either. That would be a little bit silly. Like, that's not our job. But like, to give you enough. Yeah. And to be present for you that you're really,

working with that person, like that we really take that part seriously so that you can engage. I'm thinking out loud, like I'm remembering, do you have, because I feel like a lot of actors watch, do you have any hardcore do's and don'ts in terms of auditions? No. This is just for us, our audience. I was like, hold on, let me take notes. Let me record this. Hold on please.

Clip it. No, because every rule, I always like to just. If you ask 10 casting directors, one question, do you get 20 answers and we'll swear all of them are right? Okay. Like, it's always dependent on like the situation, the whatever. Like, especially now in the self-tape era, I'm not a fan of like too much going on

or going into the real world. And because then people are distracted by what's in the background or whatever. Oh, people will send tapes where they're like, oh, this scene takes place at a bus stop, so I'm gonna shoot it at a bus stop. Oh, wow. Okay. These are the stories I want to get into.

Casting bloopers. Because I've got a couple of my own. No, the terror watching a guy who was an actual lift driver doing a scene to play a lift driver, paying attention to the camera and not where he was driving. Oh, God. Like, no idea how that performance was because I was... Just terrified.

Freed out who was on the road video, yeah. But that same episode, I still remember there. I think it was a kid in the grocery store with you. older Rebecca. I think that's what he played. Anyway, he actually did it in the grocery store. And at first, you know, it starts on just a frame. I'm like, I can't.

And then it was so charming and funny. So anything can work great. So that's why I'm like, whatever my rules are, I tend to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only thing, here's my don't. My one don't is don't impose it on the script. Mine it from the script. That's the thing that makes me crazy.

Yes. When it's like, I don't, I think her mother used to abuse her. And I'm like, you're really just bringing coffee. Yeah. You know, like... But, you know? And she reminds me and my mother. No, she doesn't.

Yeah. Keep it simple. I had a casting director to take a big swing back in my Chicago days for a commercial. Okay. And it was a callback for a series of Snickers commercials. All right. And the casting director called me,

which had never happened, called me directly. Yeah. Never happened before. And they said, I've reserved you a costume at this costume shop. Go pick it up and bring it and wear it to the callback. And it was a full Viking costume. Fur, leather, big horned helmet. And I show up to the casting office and I am the only one in costume.

So picture the room, right? A bunch of other dudes, my size, six, four, foot five beards sitting around looking at their sides, looking at me, dressed in full Viking costume, got the role. Yeah! It was a huge swing, and it was like eight national commercials on camera.

That's big. Yeah, yeah, big whole series. But there's got to be casting situations. I had a reader once who would not look at me at all, because they were so focused on the paper, would say their lines, and then mouth my lines. I'm looking at them and they would just... Mouth the words that you were saying while you were saying them.

We got to stop. We got stop. You have to stop. I don't mind you not looking at me. That's fine. You read the words. You cannot be mouthing my words while I'm saying them. It's like... No, that's not okay. There has to be...

Do you have any of those? God, I can't think of... I have... I have... I like black them out. I hate... I have like... This is one of my favorite casting stories,

but it's slightly different. Because I do have those, but I want to have those, but I want to black them. I had an audition for spinoff of like the vampire diaries, what the origins or something like that, spinoff of the vampire diaries. And Chris, like, every once in a you come out of an audition and I was like, all right, I think I booked that one. That didn't happen often.

No. But I was like, I think I stuck my foot in that when I felt good about it. Called my manager, I was like, hey, have we gotten any feedback from the casting office, right? And I said, I haven't heard anything, but as soon as I do, I'll let you know. Yeah. She calls me back and she's like, they decided to go in another direction. And I was in the car and I was like, you're kidding me. I pulled over and I said, are you sure?

And they're like, yeah, they said, sure. And I was like, I think they made, I said, guys, I said, I think they made a mistake. You should call back again. She called back and she said, no, we're sure. I drove back. I drove back to the office. I said, hey, you guys, I'm Sterling Brown.

And they're like, yeah, yeah. I was like, are you sure you weren't hiring me? Is there like a curling brown or somebody you've gotten a mistake? And they wound up. For real? For real, for real. Sterling. I know.

And the only time this has ever happened in my career. And then they wound up telling me, they wound up telling me who booked it. And I was like, you know what? And he was a friend of mine. And I was like, all right, I can see that. This is a real Jerry McGuire moment. Like I picture you in the office, like, I don't let this one slide. I'm going to let this one go.

It is the only time It is the only time this ever happened in my career I was like, no, I got to book that with you. That's hysterical. You know, like, whoever was out front, too, was like some poor assistant being like, totally, they were like, this guy is back. He wants the time real bad.

And I wasn't like, I was like, I was like, I sure you didn't like, Sterling. I was like, I figured, like, sometimes, sometimes they get like brothers get confused, you know what I'm saying? You guys are just kidding, right? I was sorry, totally. More that was us after this short break.

Gang, I was looking at my calendar the other day and realized how many trips just sneak up on us. Not big vacations, just work travel, family weekends, quick getaways that add up faster than you expect. I feel like I have a couple of those trips on the books right now. Like work things that have been out there for like a couple months. And in theory, I'm like, oh, no, they're far enough away. And they do sneak up on you. For me, it's a lot of back and forth. Like when we're working out of town, sometimes I will book my own stays.

And I'm like, oh, right, I have to be in a foreign city in two days. Yeah. I better get on Airbnb. I better get on it. And every time you take one of those trips, your home is just sitting there empty while you're gone. That is where hosting your home on Airbnb can really make sense, especially now with Airbnb's co-host network. You can partner with a vetted local co-host, someone with real hosting experience, to help take care of your home. and guests while you're away.

A co-host can help manage reservations, handle guest communications, and even provide on-site support, so the stay runs smoothly. And if you have a trip coming up and your home will be sitting empty, hosting it on Airbnb is a practical way to make use of your space

and can earn you a little extra for wherever you're headed next. If you've considered hosting but need a little help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. It could be anonymous, Josh, but do you have any good stories? You've got to have good stories. I mean, I've never had an actor come back and be like, you're wrong.

Yeah, because that's ridiculous. You wanted to cast me. Yeah, I'm like, oh. That just just shows you who I... It's good. I like it. No, like me breaking. And I've only ever broken once, but like me breaking was like...

Laughing? Yeah, just couldn't. Really? giggles it was it was I mean not really but to ask for a good story sure self-deprecating this is this my name um it was the end of the west wing and the casting director wasn't able to be there and she was letting me run with it like I could be in the session with producers which was a big deal we were already all emotional like it was the end of the show and uh it was a role for a priest and I mean I have to back it all the way up there there used to be uh

a comedian named Richard Jenny, who did this whole routine about how Catholic priests all sound like Kermit the Frog with their balls clipped in a car door. And it was... I appreciate the context. But, like, that's what's in my hand. In the back of your mind. And this guy comes in and goes, dear Lord.

And I was done. Just done. And like... And the guy can't figure out why you're laughing. Yeah, and I'm like, trying to be respectful. and I'm like curling up into like a ball like what's shaking. And the producer was like sort of a crusty New Yorker. Like I can feel like the eyeballs.

Yeah. I'm like oh God, pull together. And it was a long speech of all that. And finally it finished. I'm like, oh, thank God. I got my breath back. And then he goes, let's do it one more time. Oh, no.

And thankfully gave him some notes that like ended up. pitching him away. And then they cast him probably out of sympathy for that. And he was quite good. But boy, that first swing I, and that is the only time I have ever completely come unglued in the casting room. Can I ask you a more personal question? Yes. Can you, if you're willing to share maybe how the show and working on the show influenced your own personal life in terms of your decision to become a parent?

Yeah. Yeah. So, I had always wanted to be a dad. Yeah. You know, and my sister's adopted, so like adoption is not a new concept to our family. It is something that works. But I always thought I had to have a partner. Like, I was like, oh, I can't do a hard thing by myself.

And finally I realized all the hard things I'd done by myself. And I'm okay, and started to sort of mull on it. And very quickly, things were really, things came together. And in the process also, like this is us affected so many things. So I was talking to the lawyer who handled the adoption, and she was telling me that they changed the way they do business

because of our episodes about like Toby with... Ellie? Ellie. I was going to say Annie, that's a real name, but Ellie. and what the adoption triangle story that we told was. Wow. And they had meetings about how they're like, oh, and we're so conscious of this stuff.

And yet this brought up a new thing that we had never thought about before. Interesting. We decided to change how we treat things. And then the woman who designed my adoption website told me, thanked me. She said, because she's a white woman. who had, I think, two boys, one a white bio-son and one an adopted black boy. And they were watching the show together. Wow.

And started having conversations that they didn't know that they needed to have until they started watching the show. Wow. That's amazing. And in the middle of my own deeply a moving emotional experience of going through this adoption, having these people come to me and say thank you for what that show did for our lives and how we move through the world. because I know you all get it all the time because you're like the faces of it but I hadn't really and that was really

moving I'm sure powerful I got matched they said probably a three three and a half year wait before you get matched single dads like it happens all the time usually takes longer great we're in the middle of the writers and actress strike I'm home

no income board and get a phone call saying you've matched that was on a Friday by the way it's a baby girl and she's doing two weeks so right into shock talked to the birth mom

Sunday she was very very very shy so it was sort of an awkward conversation but lovely texting a lot and then she had said I could make a music mix of some of my favorite music

to play to her belly so I was up doing that between Monday and Tuesday night and I got a text from her asking if I was awake And I'm like, well, I think I know what this is going to be. She's like, you have a beautiful baby girl. Oh, my God, Josh. So that Tuesday, I got my life together.

Wednesday, I'm on an airplane. And by the end of Wednesday, I am holding my baby girl in North Carolina. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Five days. Yeah. And, yeah. Wow.

Totally in shock. delighted, but just unable to process all of that. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Sure. I mean, while I'm there, the strike is sort of coming to an end because I had to wait for a while for all the whatever state paperwork to come through. And we're striving to prep paradise and jump onto a Zoom with Dan Fogelman and then Sharon Klein and Stephanie Levinson of casting at Disney television. I'm sitting in the hotel room. We're like, oh, whose baby is that? Funny story

You know that show Where we talked about adoption Every day for six years Well, it made an impact Yeah, you plan a seat And Yeah And then we're kicking off

Paradise I got to travel back Right after that Wow Well, I've got a brand new baby Wow What's her name? Molly

Molly How old is she now like Two and a half She's two and a half very, very extrovert, which is strange for introvert daddy for her to walk into a room and be like, hey, like blowing kisses to people on airplanes

and saying hi to everybody at the grocery store and the park. That's perfect airplane behavior, though. That's exactly what you want. Just blowing kisses. Blowing kisses and hide everybody. After the first hour of blowing kisses, I think the people got us.

We're really tired of it, but it was... I had the pleasure of spending some time with Molly during a holiday party at Jen Morrison's house. I had all three of my kids that I was chasing around. And I was like, Josh! And he's like, this is my daughter. I'm like, oh my God. Like, it was fun.

I got very emotional then watching them play together. I know. Like with Jen's daughter and your kids. Yeah, I know. And, you know, who just came right up and wanted to play. I know. It was very, very sweet. Yeah, she's so cute.

And then like having all those roots back to this as us and here are all of our kids together that didn't exist. Didn't exist. And now they're here. All together in a room. It's such an incredible sweet thing. I know. I know.

It was really. It's so special. We've got to have a This Is Us play date. Yeah. You should. With all the children. All the children. My kids won't be in one place.

No, they're going to watch them. Yeah, they'll be the babysitter. We'll have a cocktail. It's also for me to hear this because you guys talk so much about your experiences. And I'm sure for everybody, it's like moving to hear you talk about your children and parenting and sort of how it connects to the show. But there's that extra thing because I know you all a little bit.

And especially since we've got the young ones who are the same age, it's like, oh, they're doing it too. I'm not alone. Okay. Yeah, exactly. We're all in this together. This is totally normal. Yeah. I just want to unpack five days, bro.

Like, you get on a plane, you go all the way across. country, you have a daughter. And like, just so like, just to not sugarcoat anything and whatnot, like, what is the sort of acclamation process for you in that moment? You know, like, is it, all right, I got a daughter now. So, because, like, you're not given the full nesting time that a lot of people are given to prepare for us stuff. Like, do you have a nurse?

set up as you're setting all this stuff. So what's next? This sounds very paradise. To become a parent and then immediately get on an airplane. Yeah. Yeah. We go to the airport with it, babies. Yeah.

Crazy. No, like I had to like retcon parenthood. Yeah. No, her room now was my office. Okay. Because one of the things they tell you was like it could be a long way. You don't want this sad, lonely room sitting there for a really long time. Okay.

I had, I think the only thing I bought at that point was a stroll on a car seat because... Well, that's a step. It's a right direction. That's a lot. It is. Because I knew, like, it was a possibility. Sure, sure, sure. And you have to have the car seat to take a baby home.

So I'm like, all right. That's right. Yeah. Great tax. And, you know, my parents couldn't resist. So, like, there were a few onesies and stuff, but not much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had made an Amazon list called If the Baby Comes Tomorrow.

Okay. Okay. That's good. A different one that was like actual stuff. And boy, I just pulled the trigger on if the baby comes tomorrow. Like diapers and formula and all the stuff. Yeah, yeah. And bottles.

And then the other I shared with my friends and everybody really rallied to make it happen. And I had two hours between getting off the plane and getting to the hospital to pick her name. And I had sort of made a list of names. And I sent to my sister. And I said, I want you to help me because I picked her name. You picked her sister's name? I picked Elizabeth. Wow.

My parents were about to go get her. And it's Elizabeth or Stephanie. And I was like, well, I'm calling her Elizabeth. And they're like, okay, I guess she's Elizabeth. Go and Elizabeth. Five years old. I still remember where I was when I said it. So I wanted her to help.

And I was real tired. So, you know, she helped me pick Molly Avery. Molly Avery. And sure enough, the first question they asked, asked when I got to the hospital was, do you have a name for the birth certificate? It's a matter of fact, I do. Wow. Yeah, it was all very, very quick and beautiful and wonderful.

And she's a great kid, and it was so meant to be, and she's so my daughter. Yeah. And I have a great relationship with a birth mom still. So, all very beautiful and meant to be. Yes. Congrats. Wow. That's awesome, man.

That's great. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. That's so special. It is, and knowing how much of the roots tie back to this show and what this show means to my life and to her life. Yeah. And knowing then what it means to everybody else.

Like, there are so few opportunities that we have doing what we do. Yeah. Where the personal and the professional sort of intersecting quite this way? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we all feel that. Yeah. Yeah.

And to know that it's affecting people's lives and to have that meaning. I did appreciate when the pandemic happened and what did everybody do? They turned on the TV and they were either watching the news or escaping and that's as much as we joke about like, oh, we're just making TV here. I was like, no, this is actually a

a huge deal. It is so important. And we were the second show back. And I still remember trying to figure out how to do it and keep people safe and talking to Steve Beers and Dan and how do we cast this and make sure that we don't... Because I knew that our department

would be potentially the problem. Like, bringing new people in from the outside that we don't know and I can't meet anymore. Right. Like, that they could be the vector. Okay. And that really, the pressure and the scariness there. Oh, I can't imagine.

So we could continue making the show and telling the stories that we're telling, which were so important at that moment, Yeah. Yeah, I felt that. Yeah. Just because he does Paradise 2, you guys are still catching up whatever. Season 2, shit is slapping.

It's slapping real hard, dogs. I've only seen the first two episodes, but those kids were excellent. Great, great. The one kid that you had shared the scene with was incredible. His name is Alexander in real life. And he's a sweet, sweet, sweet boy. Well, all of them, it's like you were equally, you feared them, but also just like mostly, I just like wanted to envelop all of them.

That little girl. Oh, the sister, the little sister. I know. The shot, like when the lightning flashes, standing there, like looking at you. Little children of the corn. Yes, totally. And it is nice to be able to be in the room more these days.

But yeah, no, it. Yeah, no, it's one continuing to work together. I was going to say you're continuing your streak of finding incredible humans to populate these worlds and you're exceptional at what you do. Yeah, man. We, like, I really, like, thank you for talking to me, but, like, it is a team. And I'm, and I'm proud of the staff that we have sort of raised under us and working with Tiffany. Like, it is never, like, just because I'm the one sitting here right now.

Like, it is always a collaborative effort in terms of, um, getting the right person in front of the camera at the end of the day. It's so much fun. I love that. Like, absolutely seeing the right person there and how it comes together is so much fun. That's cool job.

Well, it makes such a difference. Last part. And you can go. Because for me, like, and I don't know how you guys feel about this, but like, I always talk about auditioning as if I don't know anybody, I've never met them before, and I have a kickball team, I want a people. I want to pick the person that looks like they know how to play kickball.

And I say that to say that so much of it is confidence in making a choice and then allow them to redirect you. You know what I'm saying? But like come in with a perspective. Come in with something that's like, this is a strong take. And they say, like, that was a strong take. Can we try it this way? Do you agree with that?

Is there anything that you feel like you want to give to actors? Because it's such a vulnerable thing. Like, I remember early in the audition process, like if I didn't hit it and you hear that thank you, and you just sort of tuck tail and you go out. And I had to teach myself to be like, you know what? Can I do that one more time? Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Just like, you spent all this time. You want to do what you wanted to do in the room and then be okay with that. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. But is there any advice overall in terms of like how to bring your best self to something? That is one of the perks to me of a self-tape world. Yeah.

Of being like, ah. I did not like that. I mean, I'm just doing it again. Sure. But yeah, in the room to say, you know, I, that wasn't it? Right. Can I please? Like, I'm so sorry.

Can I please just one more swing at it? Yeah. Or can I take it from this section or whatever? Like, I'm, yeah, I support that. Like, we get it's a craft and like it's not like you only get one to take on the set. Yeah. So, yeah. No, I think that's important.

And I think it's important to remember you're bringing so much of your, here's the pro and the con. Okay. You're bringing so much of yourself to it. And so bring yourself to it. Yeah. Like you're not inventing a character most of the time out of whole cloth. Right. Like those roles are rare.

Yeah. So bring yourself to it. And the hard part is then you're more vulnerable because you're bringing yourself to it. But know that like you were saying, then it's just not you. Right. Like it wasn't because you screwed anything up. We are good enough at our job that we're not setting you up to do a bad job. Sure, sure, sure.

We probably did do a good job. Yeah. you just weren't this. And I think that is the biggest takeaway that people should have to me in terms of trying to comfort themselves. Like, it's just the nature of the business. And to breathe easy and let those things go. Like I said, easier said than done, well aware.

Well aware. But, wait, can I bring up one thing before we go? There was one more table read. Oh, because we said the last table read was 105. but then we had one, did we? In the production. In the waiting room. Yeah.

We did do it to. You said that. You two. Look at the look on that. He's just like, I think we had one more. I love that when I ran into Josh at this party, he was like, you were right. I was like, I was. Yeah.

And I had the photographic proof. Yeah. Because it was such a big deal for me because I didn't get to go to any of them at the beginning because I was the new guy. I was so busy. Sure. Yeah. It just wasn't happening.

And then by time I finally could breathe, they weren't doing them anymore. So, yeah, we did do that one, yeah, one table read for that episode. Yeah. Which is fitting as it was written by Becca who was a playwright and it didn't feel like a play. Yeah, and having everybody in the room together was beautiful and inappropriate for that episode. Yeah. It was, because I, again, usually when I read, I'm at like 80%. Right.

You, sir, are at 100. I do. You think Sterling does anything at less than 100? No, but like I had never been on the receiving end of it before. And there was a moment where there's a nurse shutting you down. Yeah. And I remember you were like daring me with your eyes to look away. I'm like, I'm getting the whole lot of Sterling K. Brown right now, but I can't blink.

And finally you turned away. I'm like, I think I wet myself a little bit. Sterling was looking at you like, I think you made a mistake. I'm Sterling K. Brown. I don't know who you think you're casting. With me. I'm the guy. Oh my God.

From that other audition, you brought to that moment. That is hilarious. So yeah, it was so much fun getting to be in that room. So when you guys were like, man, it didn't happen. I'm like, no. It did happen. I was there. It was a fun day.

Thank you so much for coming to talk to us. Josh, thank you so much for making this happen. Thank you guys so much. I am so appreciative of you guys and the whole experience. I'm very flattered to be here. We are so grateful to you for the whole experience as well. And thanks for sharing so much of your life and your story. And it's so fascinating.

I know people are going to love it. Josh, would you do us a favor, please, sir? Would you look into your camera? And would you tell them the name of our podcast, please? That was us. Nailed it. Yay. One take.

One take. That was amazing. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us. That was a hate gum podcast.