That Was Us - Justin Hartley and Us | Kevin Pearson

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

It’s the moment fans have been waiting for…the final member of The Big Three joins the pod! Justin Hartley sits down with Mandy, Chris, and Sterling to dive deep into his unforgettable portrayal of Kevin Pearson on This Is Us. He shares what it was like auditioning for the role, the ways he connected with Kevin’s journey, and how the experience shaped his life both personally and professionally. Justin also reflects on the close bonds he formed with the cast, opens up about life after the show, gives us a glimpse into what he’s working on now, and so much more! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Your home might be worth more than you think, find out how much at airbnb.com/host - For a limited time only, get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping when you head to Smalls.com and use code TWU. - Humans aren’t perfect, but David is. Buy four cartons and get the fifth free, at davidprotein.com/thatwasus - Brought to you by Bombas. One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item Donated. Head over to Bombas.com and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:13 Interview 01:25:42 End Credits Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz, Rob Holysz & Jeph Porter Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards #thisisus #thatwasus #justinhartley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of That Was Us. Your host here, Sterling K. Brown, Amanda Lee Moore, Christopher Sullivan, but gang, we feel collectively like Ahab up in this piece because we have landed Moby motherfucking dick up in this Justin Hartley is in the house. Yeah, I finally made it. We have a complete set of cast members. We've done everybody now. Justin being the last.

Dude, how the hell are you? I'm good, man. I've never been better. It's so good to see you. Oh, good to see you too as well. You look fantastic. Yeah, thank you. Justin jumps from number one TV shows to number one TV shows.

That's all he does. That's kind of just like his thing right now. It's easy just so he knows. It's just one number. Yeah. Just just do one. The reason it is taking so long to get you here is because you've been out of country. Yeah.

I've been out of country. I've been in Canada. You've been in Canada. You make it sound like I've been, yeah, I've been. But you've been there. Yeah. And you, so going from, I'm curious, going from an ensemble where we sort of all collectively take turns sort of like, you know, leading and supporting and supporting and supporting whatnot. You the man.

Tracker, Cole, you the man. What is the pros and the cons of being the man? How does it compare and contrast to your former television experience? It's a little different. Slightly different? It's a little different. I sometimes have to... He's checking his phone.

He's just like, you know, gosh, pros and cons. Look, this is us was... I've been parts of ensembles before. Sure. This was Us was different than anything I've ever done, probably anything that I will ever do. Sure. I love tracker.

I love what we do. I love the opportunity that I was given to do something on This Is Us and then something completely different because a lot of times, you know how this business is they try to, they, everybody doesn't. Yeah, like pigeonhole you. They do because people find comfort in that, right? Like you see somebody do something and you're, you know, you're familiar with that and that's kind of how you see them.

I think everyone does that. Yeah. But I got an opportunity to do something completely different, which is great. Yeah. So I love that. The time that you spend on it, honestly, I think it might be the same. Okay. Except I remember this is us, a lot of the time that I spent on This Is Us was thinking about the show, thinking about the character, trying to come up with, trying to figure it out.

Yeah. The psychology, the motivations. All of that. Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of studying, a lot of work. But it was a lot of it was done on my own time. Sure. This is a lot of, I'm on set all the time.

Yeah, right. Right. You don't have any free time anymore. No, I do a lot of running, jumping, kicking. I'm always dinged up. But it's, you know. This is the life of a tracker. It's the life of a tracker.

What do you? What'd you expect? You think it was going to be no running? No. It's all running. Yeah. I know. I've done running, swimming, jumping, hiking, everything.

Yeah. Guns, you know, no babies. There's no twins yet. Yeah. Yeah. yet yet there you go but uh a lot of driving a lot of driving and you guys did a driving practical or like with the whole we do both we do both we'll do some on the road depending on what we're doing and then some of it we we we have this uh i say we bought like it's my money they bought

this really expensive uh huge uh like projection i don't understand it i don't even understand it there are like a surround LED it's almost like a sphere but it's also it's weird it's like you look around and nothing looks like it fits and then when you watch it it all see i don't get it yeah but um what what i saw when i saw this big screen was that was like super bowl party that's what i saw but they had other ideas with nobody else just you and a lawn chair by myself everybody get out is just me alone time your season so wait first season 13 did you do we did 13 because that's the strike do 13 started late and then seconds last season was 20 and the next season we're doing 22 yeah so i'm I'm glad I'm doing this now before I die.

So this is what's interesting. This will be my last podcast ever. Last time we see you. So I do a little bit of running and jumping and all this type of stuff. We're roughly the same age or whatnot. Like, how does it feel? I mean, do you feel good? I know you take care of yourself exceptionally well, but it still hits different a little bit

when we get to a certain age, yeah? I think it's about the prep, really, right? Don't you find that? I mean, you work out a lot as well. Who me? Yes. yeah and you and you have kids yeah and you work out a lot no i don't you just climbed mountains man i haven't in a long time that was like pre-pendemic

how many mountains have you climbed though a few but no it's been a long time so mandi tell these people how many mountains you climbed i don't know exactly how many mountains probably three or four right three four three four that's fine i'm at zero i'm at zero i'm at zero zero mountains climbed but but i think what what it is honestly is is things you don't think about when you're young. Like, I feel great. Yes. But the things you don't think about when you're younger, like, recovery, right?

Prep and recovery. Sure. I was about to say the same thing. So before I go to do something crazy, I will make sure that I understand what I'm doing. I don't want to get injured because if you get injured when you're 22, you're fine in like two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It takes like three or four weeks. It takes three or four weeks. And you don't want to be, like, who's going to find these people? That's right. Somebody got a track. That's right. I got you.

You know, that's right. So, yeah, it's the things that you think about. I feel you. I feel you. You have to preserve enough energy for making love at the end of the day. You too. You know? If you can.

If you can. I trust you. Bare minimum. It gets harder. Bare minimum. Fair minimum. Okay. So in terms of your journey with the show, because we always ask everybody,

how did the show come to you? What was your initial sort of process of reading it, et cetera? Just talk to us about the beginnings of how this is us came into your life. Mine was very interesting, so I had, to be totally honest with you, I had been doing show after show after show, kind of bouncing around all over. I had a really young daughter at the time. She's 20 now, by the way. She's 20. My God, yeah. Did she decide to do the modeling thing or what she was? No, she's not doing the model. She's in college. She's like a straight-A student. She's in college. She's unbelievable. She has one more year left and then she's like going to probably rule the world. It's unbelievable. Lord have mercy. Yeah, she's good. yeah um anyway i'm traveling all over the place i'm doing show after show a lot of them are kind of cusp

shows where they're you know i did smallville where we knew that was going to go for a while and in there i'm traveling all the and i finally look at my daughter and i'm like gosh like i'm missing a lot of the stuff i don't want to miss yeah and also on top of that it was like you know you pour your heart and soul into a pilot and then it doesn't go and then you pour your heart and soul into another pilot and it doesn't go then you pour your heart and soul into a series and it goes like a year and all of that And I had this opportunity to work in L.A. And I'd done soaps before. And I thought about it.

I was like, I had some friends that were on the show, Young and the Restless. And I was like, well, maybe I'll go do that. I can be in L.A. I can be with my daughter. I can make money. I can act. So I did that. And to be quite honest with you, I was going to do that forever. I was just, I was like going to do that and hang around with my daughter and just do it. And then my buddy calls me, my buddy Michael Rady, who's actually on track or

now. Okay. He calls me and he's like, hey, did you read this, this Dan Fogelman pilot? Do you know him? And I go, I've told this story before, but it's worth telling you. It is worth telling. I don't know. I said, come on. I said, yeah, I know him. And he goes, how long have you known him? And I said, no, no, I know of him. I don't know him. But I'm never really met him. I mean, I met him once, I think at an audition or something. And he goes, I really? Because I think he might have written you. And I was like, what? What do you mean? And I was aware that he had this baseball pilot that he's doing. Yeah.

And he goes, I'm going to send this thing to you. Just, you know, don't tell anyone I send it to. Anyway, he sends me this script and I start reading it right away. And I got to like the first, second, third page. And I was like, oh, my God. He wrote me. Like, how is he doing this? I'm Jack Pearson.

It's unbelievable. It's me. I'm like, I'm exactly. Clearly. I'm like, I do everything for my daughter. It's amazing. This is incredible. This is awesome.

If I had this, I mean, this is. holy cow and it's a great character and this is like it's gonna be a beloved character look at what he's doing this all over he's under everything he's doing is perfect holy shit i'm kevin i'm not jack at all oh oh my friend thinks i'm kevin oh i gotta call my friend what wait what have i done makes i'm not a selfish you know what what's that and then i got and then i got to the end and i was like wait a minute this is actually i mean this this character if this show works is going to be this huge magnificent arc that i i don't think i've ever i don't know if i'm ready for it yeah but i have to try to go get this thing so wait hold on now did you think your friend did you talk in hindsight

did he say he thought you were jack did he say he thought you were kevin he didn't say he ended up saying uh kevin he did say yeah but but he so i he had read the whole read the whole script before he gave it to me I had not. As I was flipping through it, I was like, this guy, what am he's, I think we, he's like, why is he in bed with two strange women on his birthday? He doesn't have me friends. He's surrounded by strangers. He threw this big party for himself. Family's not there. He's got, why does he have a shirt up. He's two women. And they're like ready to go. He's talking about himself. I'll tell you, Kevin, I'll tell you why he has his shirt off with two women. First of all, if that's the mystery, I can solve that. That's what two people do when they love each other very much. With two people, three people, three people do when they love each other very much. They take their shirts off. Yeah, I mean, they had clothes on.

He was like, they dance with each other. They talk about the Space Shuttle Challenges. But that's how, but that's sort of what happened. That's how I, uh, I, I were like, I have to get this. I got to try. Yeah. You know, and I, and I remember when I finally saw the audition scene, it was the, the challenger explosion. It was this crisis that he was going through.

and he was having this breakdown. And I remember reading that. And I just thought it was so funny. Yeah. I thought it was, it's so tragically funny. Sure. And I just remember going, I mean, this, I don't even know if, like, it's that, I mean, it's really funny. You're very funny in that show.

And I don't think the, I don't think it's that sad, really. And I remember, is there something wrong with me? Because this is, I guess it's really sad, but I thought it was hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. This is what he's bringing up on his birthday while he's dancing, like, scantily clad women. He's about ready to, he's over. Yeah.

I have to say, like, to your point, reading that first, that pilot, I was constantly struck by, I was laughing all the way through it. And it took me a minute to be like, oh, my God, you guys make me cry so hard. Like, it just took a minute because, like, oh, I read it. I was like, the funny was the thing that hit me. And I realized that there was going to be a moment where people were going to get the feels. But the fields are the things that the people. sort of emphasized to us and we're like this shit is really funny

so funny yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean specifically you guys you too Sterling but you know what I mean like you guys are really bring the levity to the show yeah that was fun for us when we got to play that was almost impossible it was almost impossible that's right that's why I don't think it continued very often

well I gotta be honest I think I would go home sometimes having the greatest I would work with this man I would have the greatest time same with you same with and by the way, I mostly got to work with you. Yeah. You're like, you're gorgeous, even as an older woman. But like this, I never like ever got to work with like this. Yeah, no. None of us. I love working with Mandy so much that, like, and this is how I'm like, when the show is over, I was like, I could probably do a show with Mandy because I've never really worked with Mandy like

that. That's right away. Yep. Right now. Love interests right away. Right. We're like, that's your mom. And I'm like, but not like that. We have this conversation. We love to be. This is I brought you here. Listen, me, Justin, and Mandy had this conversation about, like, could you be, could I be a love interest to Mandy? And I was like, I don't know. Like, she's been my mom for like six years. Yeah.

Could it work? Yeah, yeah. And Justin was like, oh, it's fine. What are you talking about it? He's like, it'd be fun. She took the prosthetics off. Yeah. I'll put some on.

Yeah, a little more. Perfect. Perfect. A whole different story. It works. So, okay, wait. So then the audition, do you know anybody else who was up for the gig? or do you just know that you had your audition and you got it you know what i don't remember no

there were other people i don't remember uh i don't remember how many or who they were did you did you go into like a callback or like a chemistry test yeah i didn't have a i i did uh let's see i went in once uh at the radford lot yeah i remember that's where we yeah john and glen were there with yeah yeah and a couple other people and then i came back and they taped me again but never with anybody else no and that never with anybody else and then you didn't I read with Chrissy or? Oh, wait. You know what?

I read for Chrissy, but I already had the part. Oh, got it, got it. Okay. You were cast already. I forgot about that. Yeah, I already had the part, I think, and I read with Chrissy. I don't remember if I read with anyone else. I think I might have read with a couple other people.

I'm not sure. But, yeah, that kind of was a long time ago, isn't it? Yeah. A minute. I still have it in my calendar. I don't remember exactly what the day was, but I still have it in my calendar every year. It goes, ding, and it reminds me this is the day you audition for This Is Us. Really?

Wow. I love that. And I used to do this thing where I would call Dan or text him. Yeah. Yeah. And then he would always be like, oh, you're so sweet. And then you're so sweet. And like, you're four.

We're still on the show. And I'm like, dude. And he's like, you just, I know. Please stop. And then, yeah, you're five. He didn't. I got nothing back. He blocked you.

And I was like, okay. He's got it. The text went green one. He gave you his wife. That was his love language. Speaking of us. You may have my life. Speaking of love.

Maybe you reword that. To impregnate on the show. On the show. Here's my gift. Here's my gift to you. Let me, so I'm going to ask one more question. What did you guys get? I'm going to be quiet.

No, it's Sterling? Sterling. What did you guys get? I talk a lot. I don't give me. Here's my question to you. This is something that we've sort of rediscovered in watching the show. It's sort of there's a constant or a consistent underestimation of Kevin, right, from the beginning.

And then you're sort of given these wonderful moments of like, oh, you think Kevin is this shallow sort of surface. Hollywood, Playboy, dude, et cetera, et cetera. And then you get 105, which is the painting. And you get this, like, do we all say, like, it's one of the top moments in the history of the show? Like, when Kev describes the painting, and it's like, oh, that's the show. Yeah, it unlocks the show.

It unlocks the show. I'm curious for you, like, what it was like to sort of, like, you have, like, the surface idea, but you have these still waters that run deep. And I think you and Kevin sort of parallel in that way. I think people probably underestimate you in terms of your intelligence, your artistic creativity, et cetera. And then every once in a while you just drop something on them

and people will be like, oh, shit. Like, this is a fully realized human being that thinks deeply about the world that he inhabits, right? I'm just curious, like, what your journey was with the character. You're probably totally right. I just got him. Yeah. Just now.

Yeah. No, no. I mean, I just, when I read it, I just got it. I was like, oh, I get this guy. Yeah, I get it. If it was just now. Three years later. I would have done it totally different.

Wait a minute, it wasn't that funny, was it? Why did I think it was so funny? Oh, man. You think you got him because you related to him? Like, you've found that camaraderie. I try to do that with every character I play. And sometimes, I guess, more than others. And I think all actors do that.

You try to figure out where they're coming from. And I think for me, it was just easier for me to see where he was coming from. I think coupled with that was also, you know, he's underestimated for sure. But I also remember thinking, you know, he's expected to be a certain way. And I guess that's underestimated. He's underestimated in some regard. But also, he's just expected to be like, he'll go to a party and he'll be fine. He'll be fine.

He'll find the girl. He'll do whatever. He's going to have a great night. Right. And that's also not true. Right? you walk into a room and people, they just judge you based on, they don't know anything about,

you never heard you speak. Sure. And I think that's an interesting, that was an interesting take on Kevin. I played him a little larger than life. You think you did? I played him a little larger than life in this way. I wanted, I sort of wanted the way that he, and I think it was written this way also,

I wanted the way that he walked through life to be way bigger than what he was. thought of himself until it got to a point where he sort of started to see himself yeah and then and then I think he could exhale a little bit and come back down to earth and be a real human and that's kind of that was kind of how that tracks it wow that's fascinating yeah this the podcast up until now I know you've been listening every every episode episode has been a Justin Hartley fan club it really like we have we have we have marveled at your performance.

It's extraordinary. Seriously. It really is. You guys, I got these, like, I don't know if you guys got these while you were on the show, but they were, like, did you ever see like the, they were like pamphlets? Well, Dan, Dan and I are tight. You guys call him Dan? I call him Danny.

Danny. I call him foggy. Danny. I know his middle name. Andrew. Nope. Yes, it is. That's my son's name.

I know. His middle name. Is Eric? Is it? Yeah. Daniel Eric. I was like, that didn't sound very tribe of Jacob to me. Yeah, yeah.

You call him Ricky? No, I just, I call him D.F. Ricky Foggs? I just go D. Ricky Foggs. Yeah. But I, no, when I was on the show, I would get these, I appreciate you guys saying that, but I would get these like little, they're like pamphlets that you, they have literally, like, all the words.

Like, not only your words, but they have like all the other characters' words. characters words and if you read it's about the sides no it's it's like a whole show you flip through it and it's like if you watch the script yeah and you just well if you read it yeah it's all there it's all right all there wait a second sort of you're saying and if you memorize they wrote your word what you're doing right they will type them down what type them down then they put them in order and then they put the other characters also and they have all of it this is right the one looks so confused by what I was saying.

It's unbelievable. Because I never saw these. It's really helpful. You didn't read the script? 87%. 87%. The script, 87%. This is good.

Oh, real quick. So Sally and I have this thing about when you get the script. Like, are you a dead letter perfect person or not? Mandy tends to air towards like, she's like, I'm say what's on here or not. My love pretty much. Say what's on the page more or less. Sully and I are about it. Like, we have like an 87% rule.

Like, I'm pretty much going to say what's there. But if in the moment something sort of like comes up that feels organic and in line with what's happening, I'm like, I'm not going to allow myself not to say it. Yeah. Where do you fall? 13% from my experience. That's just me. That's just me. You're hard to follow. You're hard to follow. But I can keep up. You just get in for that cue line. I'm listening for the cue. What the fuck is he going to say? Here we go. All right. My favorite days. Piu-pue-pue. From the hymn. What kind of mood is he in? No. We'll be right back with more.

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September 5th. Gosh, look, I think on a show like this is us, you try to be as, as, he's, Dan is such a good writer that you try to be 100. And I remember when I, when I was doing that meltdown scene, but the, on the set, the man he was, Kevin was having a meltdown, he left the set and he threw the baby and all that stuff. He's yelling at the office. audience. And Dan came over to me. And I think I was word for word. And Dan came over to me and he

goes, it's the pilot, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he came over and he goes, he goes, hey, he's, you know, everything that's on here is like, you got it. Like, you got the intention. Just, I think you just, just go nuts. Yeah. So like, whatever, whatever comes out of your mouth. Wow. And I got permission from him. That feels so good. And then I was like, okay, great. I got permission from the man to do, okay, great, here we go. Yeah. And I don't know what percentage of, we did a few takes. I don't know what percentage he used of things that I made up and things that he wrote. I have no idea. It would be interesting to go back and look at it.

It's probably pretty right on. But I don't know. It's a better question for you guys. You're a good tag man, though. Yeah? Oh, yeah. There's always a good tag. Like, there's always those little buttons on scenes.

Totally. That's a good Justin. That's a button. That's a Justin. That's a Justin button right there. I had so much fun. I had so much fun on that show. No stop, Brown.

Go ahead, guy. What? No. Sterling. Say it. Someone told Sterling that he. talks too much on the show. And so now he gets...

Exactly. Exactly. And... And we disagree. He doesn't listen to the show. But she just knew. She was like... He's like, what do you think of the show?

She hasn't seen. He's like, you're talking too much. I know this. Yeah. I mean, I don't listen, but I know this. You're talking too much. Sterling. Go, Sterling.

Go, go. What were you going to say? I wanted to talk about one of our favorite episodes is the Big Three First Trilogy. Is it 208? Yeah, I think it's 208, which is entitled Number One, which is your episode. It's masterful, bro. Masterful. I mean, we texted you.

Yeah, we sent you that video, Justin. It's like top three favorite episodes of the whole series. Fucking around. Thank you. And I'll say this. They gave you a script. They gave you a script for that one? I did.

I got a script for that quote. Wow. I got a script for all of them. I remember. It was crazy. In particular in season two, I remember they brought Ryan Leaf into the writer's room. Like, or you brought Ryan Leaf? Yeah, Ryan, so Ryan was a NFL quarterback.

Yeah. Good, good. Ryan was an NFL quarterback. He's drafted, I think, second overall. Number one, I think first was Peyton Manning number two is Ryan Leaf. There you go. And it could have gone the other way. I mean, it was like these guys were like...

Yeah. We could have had Peyton in the writer's room? We could have had... You could have had... You could have had Peyton Manning right here. But he can't write. He can't, yeah, he's not... He can't act on This Is Us.

Yeah. We should have had Peyton Manning on This Is Us. Stop. Tell them why you brought Ryan Lerner. Okay, so Ryan, Ryan has a really unique story. Ryan and I became friends. We started working out at this gym together and we became friends. And he has this really unique story that's similar to, in ways to what Kevin was going through. An addiction and all that stuff.

And he's still to this day, he goes around the country and he speaks to colleges and, you know, you have to ask him. He speaks to everybody. And he's an open book. Part of the reason why he's so lovely and so, I think, effective is that he, he'll tell you everything. Yeah. I think. And he's genuine about wanting to help people. But he's also been through it.

Yeah. So he came into the writer's room and was explaining to them, and everyone was just so captivated. I mean, it was like, I think he was in there for an hour. It seemed like about three minutes. And everyone was, and these are writers that are going to write Kevin's addiction problem and all that kind of stuff. And he's like, this is what I went through, blah, blah, the whole thing. I mean, it was, and he left out nothing. And they were all, it was just, you could have heard a pin drop.

And then he gets up and he walks out with me. We walked back to our car. And Ryan's like, I think, he's like, he's like, six, six or six, seven or six, or six, seven or six, he's not. Massive, massive dude. And yeah, I brought, he was, I asked him to do that. I asked him if he would, and he immediately was like, sure. How did you know him? I met him at the gym.

Oh, okay. Yeah, met him at the gym. Which, by the way, I, you know, I'm working out with Ryan leaving, like, NFL. I have no business working out with these people. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. They're doing. Stop.

Justin's a beast. Yeah. Justin is like. I've seen YouTube compilations of your workouts. Yeah. I watch them all the time. I've seen the six. I watch them all the time.

What was the five foot box? Box jump? Oh, yeah. I remember that. I remember that video. I don't know. It was high. The push-up, the push-up box jump.

It wasn't a push-up. He just came from the ground and just jumps like a levitated. And I'm African-American, and I was impressed. I thought that it was, yeah, up top. Let's just, in terms of that storyline and sort of leading into that episode one, there's a couple of things that, or that number one episode, 208, I believe it is. Talk to us, because I remember, I think, Sally, were you with this? John and Glenn were going to take us out to their restaurant, their seafood restaurant.

Yeah, we sat in the kitchen. And Justin was like, no, I can't go. Like, I got something to do the next day. So Justin took his preparation incredibly serious. I think we all did. But like, it was a cool night, but he was like, it's a school night for your boy. I got work to do. Eating dinner was part of my preparation.

So there you go. It worked out. There's a few, like, sort of. seminal scenes. And I remember talking to Sully about this and this idea sometimes. I feel kind of like Kevin in this way in Life Sterling that there's this assumption because you are on TV, the man he's on TV, you come into people's lives all the time, that they have a feeling that they know you in a sense of like, oh, like you're not there on your time. You're there kind of on their time for their benefit. And to a certain extent that's true. But you sort

of lose this idea that I'm a human being who's like, valuable and makes mistakes and et cetera, but it's like, whatever Kev did in that moment, everybody just saw as like, awesome and wonderful. And he's trying to say, like, I'm not awesome. I'm not wonderful right now. Yeah, like, take me off the pedestal. Take me off the pedestal for a minute. And by doing that, he sort of got elevated even more. So, like, it was this feeling of like trying to be seen as a human being, right? But sort of the celebrity almost strips you of humanity to a small extent. Yeah.

And so, like, just talk about that process. And then there's certain scenes with the coach and my and Jack sort of interacting. Yeah, that like 360. It almost seems like you did a Michelle Gondry sort of thing where, like, one person would step in and the other person would step out. Talk to me about on the football field and sort of reenacting that. And then the breakdown on the front lawn begging for your necklace, bro. I actually still can't talk about that.

Really? No. See, I kind of get emotional thinking about it too. It's like, so there's a couple of things that I have in my life that I, that I use. Yeah. That I won't talk about because I feel like if I talk about them, then they won't work. Sure. And they're awful, painful, but beautiful. And forever gone. But I, but I won't talk about them. But because I need them. Yeah. But, you know, that was. The Jack thing on the stage, that was, he was coming off. He was, he was, he didn't have any pills left. Yeah. Right. So he was, he was, he was, he was itching. He was coming down off all these drugs. And he was, I mean, he was in a bad way.

Yeah. And he, you know, he, I think he, didn't he go, he went to that, that girl's place. Yeah. Kind of, and not to manipulate her, but to hopefully get some pills and get a prescription. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was like, I mean, he, so he was dying. I just thought Kevin's dying, you know, and maybe never can come back from this.

And then got the prescription and like, oh, God, this is great. And then he reaches down for his dad, right? And it was almost like that was the first time he was sober. Yeah. And did months probably. And then he went back. I mean, that was so well written, actually. Yeah.

It really was. I mean, a lot of that was just showing up. really believing, believing what is in the script, the pamphlet, and saying 13% of the words. And no, but KJ wrote those words. But also, like, what an alignment of stars, like, I don't know her name right now, but the woman that you were paired with, the way she played everything in that episode against you is such a beautiful thing. I think so, too, because it's tough to, because he obviously, he didn't look right.

No. But I think the way that, and you did this too, I think everyone did. You did it too. I mean, the Kevin didn't look good. He looked like shit. Yeah. And I mean, people were like, wouldn't they say something? No.

It's like, no, you know why? Because he's got his family and his wife and his job and it's this. And you've got your kids, you do this and the thing and the marriage and the girl. And everyone's got their stuff. Yeah. And I think that's real. I think people really do that. And when you look back on things, you go.

Oh, like something awful happens and you go, oh, I should have seen that coming. And if I would have been paying attention, maybe I would have. Yeah. So I thought that was very, very real. But yeah, I agree with you. She did a great job of, because she was all into the other stuff. It's a role of the dice, right, too, when someone comes on for an episode, like, I hope this actor shows up the day I'm showing up.

Yeah. Yeah. And shows up in the way I'm showing up. Yeah. And she did. There's also a wonderful misdirect in that episode because on the, football field when he finishes with the thing, the young lady who got him to come

to the school. You're like, oh, no, Kevin. And I was like, as somebody who didn't remember what happened next, I was like, this shit is not about to happen for much. Yeah, thank goodness. That was a good misdirect.

I'm done, no, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. We just sit here. That episode just anyways, bud, good to see you. Continues to floor. Flores. So good to see you. Can I have another hug? No, I think that that's interesting, right? Like, you're talking about somebody walking through this world who needs help, right? And each character in this show needs a different kind of help at a different point in their story.

And part of the reason why people attach so much to this show, so much to the emotion of it, is because not because they think they know that character, but because that character in some way helps them. get to know themselves a little bit better or their relationships a little bit better, right? And there's something about Kevin that is so comforting because of the way he is written and portrayed,

there's a somberness to his narcissism. Narcism is too violent of a word, his self-indulgence, his self-doubt. Yeah, it's all wrapped up in the same thing. It's unbelievable, isn't it? Yeah, but we all are. to an extent.

And I think that that's the big struggle of life is to get out of ourselves to turn and connect and to turn and be of service and to turn and raise children and to stop running around the country doing TV shows and to figure out a way to be with your daughter

or whatever the thing is. And that's one of the biggest struggles is to get out of your own head and reconnect, which is why I think Kevin is like just such, it's one of my favorite touch points of this show.

because he is he seems to have it all right he answers that question of like what if you were famous right right right rich and beautiful well that's just my opinion

it's just one man's opinion yeah yeah yeah that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that you're not struggling with the same things that everyone else is struggling with. And on top of that, one of the cool things, well, not cool things, but one of the, one of the interesting things about Kevin, I thought, was, you know, he, there's no audience to hear him.

He's not going to, people don't feel sorry for guys like that. Yeah, right. And that's not fair. Yeah. And, but it's the way the world works, right? And so he doesn't have anybody to talk to, which I thought is so sad, except himself. And so he just keeps, you just keep burrowing down in it. It's one of these old, like, depressing grunge rock songs, you know, and you're just like, Jesus.

It's all the nature of addiction, too, right? Like, Kevin is not addicted to one thing. He's just an addict. As you point out to the family, it's like, we're a family of addicts in one way or another, whether it's anxiety or food or love, the number of relationships he goes through. And so he's constantly reaching for this external reinforcement or external validation or numbing or like all of the answers for him are outside of himself. Right. And then there's this moment where he's alone. And you're right.

He has no one. Mm-hmm. And there's no one to talk to except himself. Mm-hmm. And it's the beginning of, oh, everything I need is here. is inside. It's internal. It's with relationship to our ancestors or the ghost of your father or whatever the thing is. And it brings us now where we are in the story to this like, this relationship with Zoe is like, is at least watching it is where that shift happens that I think you were talking

about, where he starts to like drop in. Yeah, he does. And he starts to think about kids. Yeah. And himself in 10 years. Right. And the people around how he wants to, you know, how he wants his life to be and what's important to him starts to change a bit. Yeah, he starts to show up for all the campaign stuff. Big time. He grows up. He starts growing up. And really quickly, I think, in that relationship, I don't know, is this the right phrase?

Because he didn't, did he grow out of it really? I mean, I want to say he kind of grew out of it. But he had this, he woke up and he was like, oh, I don't think, I don't think. I've been, you know, dating the right people. Yeah. That kind of thing. That realization. And I remember, wasn't it like, she didn't want kids was the thing.

And that was, that's a big deal and something that you don't, and it sounds nuts, but it's true. I've been in relationships before where that didn't get brought up until much later. And it's like, well, we probably should have talked about this. Yeah. This is a big deal. And then, and then you go, why didn't we talk about this? that that is something that you that you talk about yeah you know kind of right away or you should yeah yeah not when you're you know young but when you're with planning your life and and i and i think that was

one of things where he started raised he goes oh wow i you know i i i'm starting to see myself as an older man or what it would be like what do i want to look like what do i want my life to look like when i'm 45 who do i want around me when i'm 50 you know where i want to be and and that's a that's a very mature way of thinking considering where we found the guy Exactly. He had that flashback. He had the, well, that vision of kids with Sophie. Right. Yeah. And it was a nightmare. It's a nightmare. And he said it. And he told her that. He was like, oh, God. And he was messed up when he said that too. A little bit, a little bit.

Yeah. There's, it's funny to, I'm coming from the macro and then I'll come back in. I remember having this conversation with Justin. Like, do you think it would be more interesting for you if you did have? Because you have Jack and Rebecca. You have Randall and Beth. You have Katobi. Like, it's like these relationships. And Justin would be like, no, I don't eat one. He's like, I think it'll be more interesting for me as a character, like, if he finds it at the end. But I think that's part of like Kevin's journey is actually being at a place where he is ready and open to receive what it is. And it turned out exactly like. Yeah, I also thought it was so funny to walk by,

because we had, you guys remember, we had the trailers that were, we would all share trailers. Yeah, yeah. And it would always be like. Kevin and. No, it would be like Toby and Kate. Yeah, it would be like, Randall and Beth. Randall and Beth.

Jack and Rebecca. Jack and Rebecca. And then he'd be like Kevin and then whoever else was on set that day. Question mark, yeah. It was always love interest question mark. Or like director. Yeah, you could always be some, you know. PA nap room.

And it, but yeah, it was, it was. It could have been Kevin and Miguel. Kevin and Miguel. Yeah, Kevin and Miguel. Sitting in. You're, the way you give him shit throughout is just so hilarious to me. And then it just brings me back to like how much fun we would all have on set. Like for me specifically, it was like I had my quiet scenes with Milo and the family.

It was like very different dynamic. And then any time I was in prosthetics and like present day, Rebecca, I was like, oh shit, here we go. Just cracking up all day. I was on set and I don't know if you remember this or if I even told you. But I was on set one day. And I think I'm in the, I'm like in the background work or something. I had like five lines or whatever. Okay.

And it was a big, something big was happening with you and Miguel. Okay. Rebecca and Miguel were like, cutesy. They were like, they were like being cute together. And I like, I took my phone out and I recorded the two of you like, like hanging out and like laughing and stuff like that and doing your lines or whatever you're doing. And I sent the video to Milo and I was like, some bullshit's going on here, man. Swear of Christ, I thought I let you know.

And he sends me a video back. of him he's on his motorcycle and he's pulled over he pulls this helmet off and he's like some crazy shit kev he's like i appreciate you telling me he's like i'll get on it i'll be right there i'll get on it where are you tell me where you are drop a pin yeah drop a pin oh my god that used have so much fun it was it was it was it was we had what are some of your favorite memories or is there anything that stands out i mentioned because i remember was it season four new york city with you guys yeah yeah that was fun sitting at the waiting in the hotel to shoot that was fun i'm in prosthetics yep i'm with my like grown adult children in new york city

but the plaza hotel that's right and we just you know hung out we hung out yeah we kicked it in between it was like in between scenes or something it was it was and it was and it was and it was like a silly thing. It was like you and I having to just walk out to like the car or something. We had to not trip up the stairs or something. Yeah. Yeah. Had a couple beverages. We had some beverages. People must have been, uh, oh, that's a, speaking of beverages. To this day, if I'm at, like I said, I'm 35. Yeah. Oh, I thought you were 34. Well, I'm 35 next year. Okay. Oh, great. Okay. And I, and I, my point is, I'm 48.

My point is I'm old enough to drink it. To this day, if I'm at a bar having a drink or at a table, people will literally be like, I don't know if you should be doing that. Because of the character. Because it's sober on the show. Should you be doing that? You know, slippery slope.

That's the gateway. It's pills next. And the next thing you know, you're snorting things. I'm just like, Jesus. A little Jack think. It's a bud light. Tell them what people will yell at you during the series. They still do it.

What do they do? Say it. So I get now. I'll get like it's so interesting I love I love my life and I love people I love how passionate they are about certain things I've done listen listen let me start by saying

I love people I do but these people that I'm about ready no no what'll happen is so these people so I've done I've done like superhero stuff yeah I've done soap opera stuff I've done daytime stuff I've done And, you know, I was in, I've been a stripper. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is us. You got a tracker. All this kind of stuff. And so I will get, I can almost tell what they're going to. Where they know you from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes I get shocked.

But the obvious ones are when I'm walking down the street, and I'll just hear it, maybe turn this down. I'm walking down the street. You push it away a little bit. And I'll hear, I'll just hear. Mama! Morrow! And I'm like. That's hilarious.

It's always a guy? It's, no, no, it's a, it's a, it could be a woman, could be a man. It's all walks of life. Yeah. And I look back and they're going nuts. And I just think to myself, the man, it was never a show. It was never aired. It's a fake show within a show.

In fact, it was the thing Kevin hated most about his life. I asked, I asked, as you guys know this reference, I saw Morris Chestnut the other day. And I go, do you ever get the manny? Is he? He didn't know what the hell I was talking about. That is? And I was like, you know, you took over the manny. Did you know that we used your image and name and likeness?

Now they're both on CVS. You were the only manny with a billboard. I never got a billboard. He was probably like, okay. He was like, oh, yeah, yeah. He's like, I do. I do know that. I was like, anyway.

And he was like, would you mind taking a few steps back? You know, it's funny. You know, it's funny. You know, it's people remove me. Yeah, just like, will you just sign this for me? I bet you in most cases people think they're like the first person to come up with the idea. You know what I'm a deep cut? Yeah, it's a deep cut.

People want to do, people, like, all the time come and they want me to do the Manny. They're like, would you ever do that show? And I'm like, in a heartbeat, in a heartbeat. I would do that in a heart. Are you kidding me? Multi-Camp in L.A. Let's go. I would love to be the Manny.

Yeah. This is the Pitch. You're going to make it happen. I watch it. Would you do it? Would you stop by, wouldn't you? Oh, hell yeah. Can you imagine?

We'd guest star on the Manny. That would be great. Every single person from this is us, guest stars on the movie. Manning. I mean, it's just dropped their kids off. It sold itself. Yeah. More that was us after this short break. Some days are non-stop. You blink and suddenly it's 4 p.m. You've skipped lunch and you're just trying to make it to dinner without crashing. That's exactly the moment when I reach for my buddy David. Come on, though. David protein bars are made for moments. like that. They're packed with 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories, and absolutely zero sugar.

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Bombus.com and use code T-W-U. Let me... Okay, wait, this is a question about... because you're talking about all the female relationships that you had because Kev went through who was British chick was what's her the character's name was Janet Montgomery I was her character's name see the thing about Kevin at that point in his life I'm sort of I went method and I'm not really she was like no character names no actor's name

then the writer and then we introduce Sophie right who sort of becomes like you know our linchpin throughout the thing oh gee then we're we're Zoe is right after Sophie is there is anybody in between yeah yeah she was before before Madison well there was yeah there's the doctor at the school there's oh yeah well yeah he's a doctor at school as that if we want to include yeah I'm sure we don't know all of that we don't know honest there was an episode let me get on my pamphlets where Kevin was speed dating where he would just sit down and it was the same table I think at the same restaurant and it was just not working not

working not yeah and he would show up at like birthday functions with a certain person. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was countless. It was a lot. It was a lot. I want to talk about a little bit of that Madison arc before, like, ultimately came back to Sophie because that, that wedding I remember, and we haven't gotten.

Is that season five? That's season five, I think. By the time we get to it, like, I'm curious for you as an actor because it's one of the most beautiful things in terms of, like, you want to make it work. Like, she's the mother of my children or whatnot. The first you guys are going to park companies. And you decide to sort of come through. And she's the one who hits you up and is like, do you love me?

Right. It was heartbreaking, right? And he's like, I'm trying to say all the things that I need to say without, because what I love about Kev, he doesn't lie. He's not a liar. No. No. Okay, like, I'm trying to think of there, are there times in which Kev has like just out and out,

bold face? And maybe there's some. Maybe when he's inebriated, but. Maybe when he's inebriated. Maybe, but for the most part, his MO, is to be honest, right? Was that just shooting the scene? Because it's sort of memorable to me.

Was it memorable? What do you remember about it? Not much. No, I'm kidding. No, I do. I remember her being great. She was wonderful. She was great.

That's a hard question to ask someone. Kate and killed that. Yeah, and you have to, like, you have to be ready for the answer. Yeah. And I think she knew the answer. Sure. You don't ask that question.

Unless you know the answer. You don't have to ask that question. No. If the answer is yes. Let me ask you a question. Now, be honest. You be honest. Listen, I would appreciate some modesty.

What do you think of my glasses? Here's another one that was an interesting journey for us, because I think it's season four where Kev and Randall are having, like, that be. So mom's condition is sort of worsening, and there's a differing of opinion of, like, how best to take care of or whatnot. And I can remember people on the street coming up to me. Because Randall and Beth had gone through an argument the season prior. And you didn't know if Randall and Beth were going to make it together or not.

My wife actually told me, she said, if Lucius and Cookie can figure it out, y'all need to get your shit together. That's an empire reference because she's like, look, if those people can do it, and she was very worried. I had somebody come to me, she goes, you remember the argument that you had with Beth, right? And they said, what happened with you and Kev was like 10 times worse. Because nobody was like an impassion. state of being or whatnot.

Talk to us about that scene. The one on the lawn? Is that what I'm talking about? Yes. The fight. Yeah. Well, not to take away from it, but there was a lot of laughing

that happened in between those takes. Tons of laughter. Like when they would turn around, when we had a couple minutes. I think there's a safety that we both felt. I was just going to say the same thing. And going wherever we needed to go at the scene because nobody was going to take it personal.

No. I was going to say the same thing. It was like, we had stuff like that too in the hospital. When I remember that, when I was drunk, I couldn't drive. It was like, yeah, yeah. But you do. You have, when you're working with, with really talented great actors that are just beyond generous and trusting and full, like give full performances, you can.

You can, you can rip heads off and smash and do, you can do whatever you want. yeah and and and by the way in that at least for me i i i always feel it yeah oh bro shit cut it's it's like because it's still your voice yeah and we're and we're friends yeah and it's it sounds just like you and it looks just like you and you're and you're and you're trying to defend something that's the way that that was written yeah though was a lot of times and it's fine in the way it should be in the way that you tell a story in a story arc a lot of times a character is defending something that's not defensible which is fine which is what people do right and it's interesting to watch that particular scene I saw both sides of course yeah I didn't have an opinion

about who was right and who was wrong there were things that were said yeah that were um you know flat out bells that can't be on wrong bells that can't be on but but that also happens in life you know and um I'd like to say that I've never said something that you know like that to anybody but that's not true i have i've had almost the exact same conversation with my own brother with regards to my mother's care really it got that that intense you know what it yes in a similar way because it wasn't like we were raising our voice or something and i remember i i i said something to him yeah and i let it let it like lay out there for a minute yeah yeah until i just wanted i wanted him to get off the phone so i was like i'm not going to hang up

on you but i'm going to say this oh and he's like well okay i got to go yeah like yeah yeah yeah yeah you get to that point and then you're just and then you get off the phone you're just sweating you yeah you haven't moved because each person is convinced they're convinced that they're right yeah yeah you know what i'm saying and i think i think for randall in particular i think randall I won't say suffers from but has the idea if I don't do it who will

I would say suffers from I would say suffers yeah I mean that's and I say that just because I know other people who have that same sort of mindset or whatnot and they think that it's absolutely legitimate and Randall is definitely

he's like if I don't do it it won't get that or it'll get jacked up and by the way there's some legitimacy to that too given the company that he's in right sure sure But it becomes harmful when it spins into resentment or treating other people a certain way. Yes. Because it may or may not be true.

Like, like, that's the, that's the, Rach, and I both are the same way. Okay. Where it's like about certain things. Yeah. And it just had, both of us kind of had to come to like a similar realization where it's like, which is fine. I guess I'll just do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, you do that and I'll do this. Right. And I'm okay with that. As long as we don't resent each other, everything's fine. I started to realize that one of the great things about doing all these shows and traveling all over and sort of living out of a suitcase, one of the great things that I took away from that. And I still, I love, I love that I have this.

Because I don't know if I would have, I don't know if I would have this in my life, if not for that, is you can't possibly be two places at once. In fact, if you're living, you're oftentimes relying on other people to take care of things that you care about, whether it be your lawn or whether it be your, you know, your teachers at school, all that stuff. Sure. You really have to be okay with the fact that, like. I really want this done.

Yeah. And it's not ever going to be exactly the way that I... You just have to let all that go. Right. Yeah. It really doesn't matter. Right. It doesn't matter.

It's not an easy thing for Randall to hear. Right. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, how would you even... Oh, speaking of that kind of stuff, Randall, you probably already talked about this, but that meltdown that you had, the first time we saw him melt down at work. Yeah. When I found you?

Yeah. And that was great because... That hug. know, you think about what Kevin, Kevin, from the very beginning, was, was a selfless person. Yeah, he has service in him. Oh, yes. And he was like, well, I got this play. I mean, we didn't, like, talk about the fact that he totally let his cast down.

He just left that girl out to this, like, went on and he was like, where's, and he was like, you know, you know, but, but he had it, he knew. He was like, oh, something's, though, that's not right. That could, that could be permanent, you know. so I don't know I just there were so many moments you can't talk about them all can you no so many moments we do it one episode that you had with jet that was that oneer that you guys did yeah I was like what the hell is this crazy yeah yeah it's nuts I mean there should be a stack of Emmys right there yeah I was unbelievable so right now right now we're in the middle of Vietnam store yeah and you got to

go to Vietnam yeah yeah traveled yeah talk to us about yeah please went to Vietnam I I uh we did a lot the stuff in L.A. And then a lot of the stuff we did in Vietnam for Vietnam. It was interesting. It was like big, huge language barrier. Sure. Ken would be like, we're in a van. We're driving in the van or whatever.

No, I think we're getting a ride from the van in the van to the hotel or whatever. And Melanie and I are in there, like, you know, doing our acting thing and Ken's in there with his monitors. And all of a sudden, the boom operator would just call cut. Oh, God.

And Ken was, Ken couldn't believe it. He didn't, he was like, did, I think he just, he popped up and he just saw his head and his hair. And he's like, he goes, but I'm the director. He goes, and there was a guy named On that was the translator. And he goes, on, on, on. And he looked, he goes, tell him, I'm the director. I call Cut. He doesn't call Cut. What is that? He's not calling cut. I'm calling cut.

Okay. All right. Are we rolling? All right. Wait. Wait. Okay. Justin. Okay. And are we rolling on? Are we rolling? on on he goes we're rolling and then he would call cut and then he would call cut and kind of be like what he's going what pull over pull over and so this was like day one

and I was like well this is going well I'm glad we flew the whole crew here yeah yeah yeah couldn't have done this on a sound stage yeah talk about flexing being like we're a huge show yeah let's go to Vietnam and they're like okay let's go to Vietnam we could have shot that whole damn thing in California I think although we did go to the wet market

was it a wet market yeah yeah where you found the necklaces all the necklaces and um and she ate the bat yeah yeah it was mushroom they gave us mushroom great but i but uh you you would you could walk in there and buy like clothes and uh food and uh you name it a camera you name it you could buy it anything it was like amazon but in a store but yeah we had to we had to walk i don't know what they had going on in there but you had to walk up um this is the truth you had to walk up to um the building like 10 feet away from the building, inhale a few times, walk away from the building. Then I could go like eight feet.

Then I could go like five feet. Then I could go in the building. And then I could go in the building and stay in the building. You have to get used to it. It's like acquired. Yeah. Got it. Yeah.

And once you're in there, you're like, oh, it's fine. Amazon, the wet market without the smell. Exactly. How long were you guys there? Was it a full week? I think so. Yeah, I think we were there about a week. Okay.

And were you with Ken when he infamously fell in the water, or was that Milo? That was Milo. Okay. But you pushed him. But I pushed it. When he fell in the rice paddy? I guess what happened was the tide was coming in, I think, is what the sun was the tide was coming in. And he, so it was just a ditch, I think.

And then the ditch fills with water. And Ken was on this road that kept getting more and more, like, narrower and narrow. And Milo was like, you know, it was encroaching on his, it was like, we have a, you know, a couple of minutes to shoot this, whatever. And I think Ken took, the way I understand the story is Ken took a step back and he just disappeared. Yeah. Like a magic trick. Like a magic trick.

Where'd he go? Like up to his neck. He was just here. I think he went in. Oh. Oh, wow. I think he disappeared. Great.

Did he really? I think so. Or maybe it was because they were on a, something. Anyway. I'm going to ask him because he's shooting with us right now. I have to find out the answer to that question. Yeah, he's had some, and you know, when he directs tracker, he's hilarious because we're always, well we're tracking we're in the middle of the woods he says it's one day on set usually

seven days on location yeah but i'm but that one day on set is usually maybe i'll do like three scenes in my truck yeah um and then i will uh i am on the road the whole the rest of the time i'm everywhere you i interrupted a story that you're about to say something about oh no just oh the vietnam stuff no it was just we we would go to these places we they would find these locations and then we would show up and that i remember this one time this this this guy owned the house. I think he owned the house that we were shooting at. And we were playing it for a hotel maybe or something. And Millie and I walk around the corner and we have a scene. And then, of course, we have to do that 900 times or whatever. And this guy wanted to be in it.

And so he's like, I'll just sit here. I'll just sit here and Meli and I walk. He's like, I know how to do this. Yeah, he's like, no big deal. He's sitting there. And then we're like, okay, are you sure? Just scooting in, scooting into the shot. Yeah, yeah. You get in the shot. That's how we do. But he would sit there and then I looked at him a few times. I was like, what's going? I was like, take three. And I'm like, I said something.

I was like, you know, he's, whatever that water is that he's drinking, it's, I don't know if it's, if it's in the shot, it's obvious that he's switching drink water glasses. Yeah. It wasn't water. And like, by take six, that dude was like in the background. And then he'd be like, we would walk through. he'd be like, yeah, we're just sorry. And he was doing all his beat, red face. And he's like, yeah, no teeth.

Yeah. He was just like, yeah. Got his sad card that day. Yeah. And we were like, oh, no, what do we, what do we have to pay this guy a million dollars to leave or something? Oh, my gosh. But anyway, he, I don't know how we got around that. Maybe they painted him out or something.

I have no idea how they did that. But it ended up, he ended up being, it was also in the coverage. Because On couldn't get him to leave. Yeah, on couldn't. get him relief. Yeah. It was weird. Oh, God. Did you work with Dustin Nuyen at all, the guy who plays Bao? He was like the... No, I think that was just Milo. Just Milo? That was just my. Okay. Okay. Well, because he, I was, what I was, what I said in our last episode was, I thought that he was living in Vietnam and was like a representative for the, like, the film commission there or something,

but I wanted confirmation, but if you don't know, no need to confirm or deny. Milo would probably know that. I'll call him. Call him right now. FaceTime him, right now. He'll probably call you and give you the information before you have to ask. He's listening. Always listening. I remember, so I'm going to jump around a little bit, but like, I remember towards the end, you know, Dan had always pitched that it was going to be six seasons, right?

Yep. And Justin would be like, almost like the lone person where, man, he'd be like, yeah, six feels right. Like, we did our thing. Let's come to an end. Oh, no, I was with Justin. Were you? Yes. I was like, yeah, I could do this at least another one.

There's a little more story to tell. Yeah. Well, before we got to the. the very end. The very end was that was the story, right? But I thought we could, I thought, yeah, I thought we could have done one more. Yeah. One more. Yeah. What would you guys? But I thought it was perfect the way it ended. Totally. I mean, had he like, in season five said, actually, we could figure out two more. Right. I think that was, that was, but when he was like, there's only one more and this is what we're leading to, it was like, well, sure. This is,

I remember at one point in time, Dan had pitched. He's like, you know, I have six seasons in my head. But maybe if I handed it over to Isaac and Elizabeth, like, we could continue it or whatever. And I was like, this show was so Dan. And even though Isaac and Elizabeth ran the room or have you, I was like, I don't, you don't want to go beyond the dude who created the thing. In my, in my mind. Sure. Not a West Wing situation. Yeah, yeah. You know, everybody will talk about the beginning years and then Wells comes in on the West Wing or whatnot. It's not the same, etc. I was like, the idea that we could come in and go

out at the same place that we started and began, when people weren't like, is this still on? Like, are you? I felt good about that. Artistically. But you were, because you were like, I did a show for nine years. I did a show. I would have done it for 19. Yeah. Yeah.

And it gets to the point where just in, like, a sort of in a selfish way, yeah, the story would not have been good for 19 years. Right. But I love you guys. I love you. And I loved working with you guys. And I would have just been like, like after season 17, I would have been like, they'd have been like, your show sucks. And I'd be like, I don't care.

But it used to be good. Yeah. You remember when it was good? And they'd be like, no, I don't remember when it was good. Yeah. I remember being bad for nine years. And I'd be like, well, lump it. Yeah. I'm having a great time. Yeah. And then you just drive off. I mean, I would have done that show until I was like 44. You know what I mean? Yeah. You already know the problem. Another two decades.

Another two decades. Another two decades. Yeah. I would have done that well into my teen years. I swear to God. Listen, and I don't disagree with you in terms of the camaraderie that was achieved because it's real. People want to, like, they ask. Hence your podcasts.

Hence, this is why we did it. I'm like, can I just hang out with you guys again? I show up. Yeah. Because being with you guys and talking about this period in our lives where we got a chance to do something special. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And hearing from other people still. Yeah, I've seen. I've seen it. Yeah. And we'll say stuff that's like. Yeah. I know. I know.

It just is a constant reminder. Yeah. And you're like, oh, wow, we selfishly loved doing what we were doing because we all got to be together and we love each other and stuff. Yeah. But like it tangibly made such. an impact for so many people and we get to hear from them and still does and it's like so special you know and here's the other thing that was really special about that show the i don't know about you all but i had been through it a few times by the time i got this yeah this part yes so it just seemed to me like everybody um as opposed to sometimes you get on a show when you're really really young you kind of because how would you you you kind of don't know what you have there was appreciation you I don't realize how massive appreciation from everybody.

Everybody. Everybody was like, oh. Like, I remember when we did the table read, I had just watched the Nick. Yeah. And I loved you on that show. Loved your performance on that show. I love you and everything, but I loved your performance on the show. And I remember, do you remember this?

I found out. I did. I couldn't help it. because I didn't realize it was at the end of the table read yeah you were looking really familiar to me the whole time was like because on the show you know you were you were big beard

accent yeah all that and I was like guys like I was putting it together and putting it together whilst trying not to lose my place during the table read like how do I know what happened me one time on a show I'll tell you if you want to hear that story sure oh my god and I don't know what happened

I lost I don't know what have but i um i then i finally clicked and i went up to it i was like hey yeah he was like hey and i was like thin nick man i got to tell you it's like unbelievable i can't believe that you don't have an act it was kevin i was like i can't believe you don't have that accent how the hell do you what are you irish what are you is this an accent yeah what are you doing are you a fraud now or are you fraud on the show i feel like that's toby is that your beard yeah i'm like how the hell Do you drive an ambulance? Yeah.

He was just like, man, I got to go. I got to go. No, you do. It was the same question I asked. Because when I figured out that I ended up with an audition for this show because of the Nick from John and Glenn, who had seen it. Is that true? Yeah. They were like, what about that guy?

I was like, what in that guy? Did you see Toby? No, nothing. There's an appreciation for actors. Yeah, yeah. That's a complete, a complete transformation. That's what they saw. You're a killer.

Yeah. You're a killer. Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us. We'll end it on that. No, I have a question. Go. Working with you and you as a director, I loved.

I'm curious, like, Sterling, we got to work on an episode primarily with Justin that he directed. Yes. Kind of in season six, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How did you find that experience? Because it was really lovely that Dan sort of came to us collectively at the end and was like, who wants to direct, who wants to write? Like, what roles do you want to assume at this point?

And, you know, those of us raised our hand for the directing gig. And I just curious, like, I loved working with you as a director. And I found you to bring the same, like, sort of cool collective confidence that you brought to your character. character and that you bring to set as an actor, you brought that same energy as a director. Or it was like, I know I'm safe. I know I'm in great hands. I know that Justin, like, knows exactly what he wants. But sometimes you feel the stress and the, you know, the pressure, the energy that, like, a director brings because, like, they got to make their day or something went wrong and Yasu doesn't

want to put the camera there. And, like, you never... He never wants to put the camera there. He never wants to put the camera where the director wants or, you know. But, but you never betrayed that you were always just sort of like Justin you're just like we'll figure it out yeah and I like I'm just curious like do you like did you like playing that role do you want to continue doing that what was this is us like the first time

you directed I directed on smallville oh a while ago I did not know what I was doing and I well that's not true I did the school the class all that stuff and then so I mean I guess technically I you know I could have done a workbook and said you know answered all the questions

but I don't think I knew how to I didn't have enough confidence to talk to actors, I don't think. And then on this show, I had so much confidence in the actors that it's sort of like this big safety blanket where you go, I mean, you kind of can put the camera anywhere and they're going to crush this thing, you know. And also, you know the show. Yeah, right. You know what you need and, you know, what's going to end, what you're wasting your time on

and kind of edit in your head and all that as you're going, you know, and, but no, I loved I loved it. I loved, like, my whole thing with you was like, I remember I had a lot of stuff with you and a lot of like, what am I going to tell you? Like, really, what am I going to tell you? But you did. Well, you would come up and just, I remember, you would like pose a very simple question. It wasn't even like a suggestion. It wasn't even, and you just would come up and say something that was like revelatory. It was like, whoa, like a total light bulb moment of like, okay. But it was just like, it was quiet. You'd say it. And then you'd say it. And then you'd, you would just like step away and we would roll and it was it was like never would have occurred

to me well i mean that's and that's the thing is like when you have like great talent around you that understands the character and understands the story and the show and all that you just um you're you're you have that luxury you can you don't have to go hey so um you know you like you you were in like you were in a war right and um and and and and your your son's about ready to go off to war yeah and you're going to talk you don't have to explain it you can just go So, like, I think I remember saying to you one time, this would be a lot easier if Jack were here, wouldn't it? Yeah.

That's all I said. That sort of stuff where you're just like, okay, well. And the kids were acting like jerks or whatever in the restaurant. So it was something like that. But, but yeah, that's, like, what am I going to say? Like, I'm not going to give acting lessons to any, this is ridiculous. But I think that's, I always love that when someone says, Ken does a lot of that. It's a perspective.

Yeah, when he'll, or he'll tell you a story about him. He's like, you know, when I, you know, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, my or he'll tell you a story just and then he'll just walk away he won't even complete a sentence well that's not a single one which is hard to do when you're telling a story yeah and somehow he gets it across it's communicated and you're like got it okay I could never tell a story like that because I have to use sentences yeah punctuation sometimes not just semicolins to what Mandy was just saying like I think I I remember having this conversation with you about Buddhism and about just sort of like philosophy of life and whatnot.

And I think it's one of those things, if you care to talk about it, that like people wouldn't necessarily be like, Justin Harley, da-da-da-da-da. But there is, there is, I've seen you get upset. So it's not like you don't get upset. Sure. And it's really funny when you do. But it's also, it's also like real. But to me, it's not fair.

Not to you, not to you, not to you, to everybody else. Like, it's, it's. We plan to make you upset before you leave. Because it doesn't happen often. Right. Like, it happens very infrequently. Like, you have a way of moving through life. And you've said it a few times.

It's not important. Like, you have a way of sort of distilling things into, like, what matters and what doesn't. And, like, easily sort of triage. It gives it weight, too. Yeah. It's like when Mandy gets upset. Yes. There must be something worth being upset about.

Similar. No, I think one time I've seen it. Yeah. Well, we remember that time. Yeah. Because this doesn't happen. So if this is happening... I love when Sterling crumbled.

There must be something to be happening about. Well, there was. That's all we'll say. Talk to us a little bit about just sort of like how you got to this place of where you move through life right now. Because I think it's sort of fascinating for people because I think similar to Kevin, people don't give you the credit that you deserve for being like a really beautiful. beautiful, fully realized, incredibly conscientious human being. Yep. Well, thanks.

But I don't think the credit matters. I really don't. And there you go. I really don't. I have, well, I'll share this with you. I mean, I've been through a lot. Yeah. And that will reset you and you go, I mean, I'm not going to keep beating this drum.

You know, what's going on here? And so I found these certain books that you can read pamphlets. And the words are written down for you. You just have to read them. Like you can read books about Buddhism or whatever it might be that, you know, centers you. And if you revisit those books or if you keep thinking that way or you stay trained, you stay fit in that regard, then you can kind of stay centered. And if you stop doing that, it's like working out. If you stop going to the gym, you're going to see a difference.

It won't take that long either. Right? Because life is, I mean, it just comes at you fast. It happens every day life. It just does. It slow down. It's happening right out there. Over and over it. Yeah, that's why I came in here. I was like, I'll just, I'll check out for a little bit. Relentless. Yeah. I don't know. I just, I think also being a parent, you know, if you see your kids stressing out about something and you're like, wow, you know, none of this matters. I don't mean to suggest that you should, you know, be a slob and not care about things. I'm not saying that at all. Yeah. I just think, you know, um, you just think, you know, um, you know, um, you. should enjoy life and not stress out so much about things that you can't control and you can control

very very little most of the things that you can control are the are have to do with helping other people they really do so like like if i can actually impact someone in a positive way yeah by talking with them spending time with them that you can control right um sometimes the mood you're in like sometimes you know like what are you dealing with like why are like all this all this dumb shit like who cares right yeah um it's just about people really in the end and it sounds so cliche but it's if you can realize that you it's i think you can live longer yeah yeah and just and just by we've talked about this on the podcast about i don't know if you remember our date that we had in las vegas but i'll remember it forever of course it's very romantic yeah it involved

a shooting range i mean it was everything it was unbelievable and the heckler i don't know if you remember the heckler but i want oh yeah oh the heckler no but we had a separate date where Yeah, on the first night. But we did our, we did our activity. We did. And then, and then you were accosted by a bachelorette party at the, which was unnerving. Like, for me, especially, I could see it on you. Like, it was above and beyond.

No, you said, you were like, this is, I. This is illegal. Like, what's happening is illegal? And your reaction to it, when we sat down at dinner, I was like, what do you do? I was like, you do something. you Zen Motherfather I was like

what tell me tell me have we ordered sushi and I was like tell me everything and regardless like you're saying regardless of the practice

right the spiritual practice the spiritual gym that you go to to like stay balanced so you go to the gym to strengthen yourself to stay strong

but mostly balanced not falling over not being knocked over not being you know being able to lift and run and track and all of these things but just by

living your life that way is a service to the people around you because being being able to witness you navigate that situation and then navigate it that way is an active service and so i just i appreciate you and i can see it and i see it and i feel it and it makes me a better person just being around you oh come on thank you amen thank you i feel this exact same way agree you guys are amazing you we got to do we got to do we got to bring the show back season seven that's right How about this? Tracker season four, you walk in somewhere and there's Jack. You're like, you're like, what the, that's a cross-out. What is the, what is the statute on that?

Like, how many years have to go by before we can bring, we can bring characters on the tracker before. Yeah, it's not like, it's not, it's not to. No, do tracker. It's not, but it's not Toby doing tracker with Kevin. I think it's, I think we're there. Three years. I think, uh, law and order has a three-year rule. right okay you can go back and do another law and order after but that's the same show this is a

totally different show are we get all pop on i think so yeah we can all pop on we got all pop on done yeah by being better just let me know when you're not doing that was us and is there other projects is there anything else i'll direct all the episodes can that's a good idea yeah that's a good is there anything else that you feel like you want to visit in this sort of interview regarding the show your time with the show the people the story the arcs Just anything that's like you always want to go into. No. I'm good.

No, I will say, though, that it's a very familiar feeling. It's a very lovely feeling being around you all. And all together with the jersey and the whole thing and the font and all this kind of stuff. But it also is bittersweet. I mean, it really is, isn't it? It really was every minute of that. I never, ever woke up having. to go to work.

Right. Not one. Never. I would look at that water tower. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. And I couldn't believe. I used to send people pictures of the water tower.

You sent me one and be like, can you believe it? I'm like, yeah, I was there with you all day. I can believe it. Stop calling me. I'm in the photo. I'm behind you right now. I'm like, the photo is just of me with no waterfall. Through the window of my trailer.

That is a video of me right now. Yeah. Chris, what is going on? He's like, you haven't worked in three days. Why are you still here? Aren't you thirsty? Get yourself some water. Tell me how you do it.

No, but yeah, never, never. Yeah, like no autopilot. It was every day, it was like, wow, here we are. This is so cool. And it was so special and so, it just, everybody loved it. And it was good and pure. It was really good. And hard to watch because it was so real.

and easy to watch because there's so much of love. Yeah. And it was funny. It was hilarious. It was really funny. It was so funny. It's that people get, people get, which is understandable. Did you ever get, uh, this is us in this show?

No. You never got it in the show. No, no. Wait, what do you mean by that? He said it like a hundred times. I used to try and work the title into the show. He'd get out of a cab, be like, this is us. So when I dropped him, when I dropped him off at Sophies, I would tap the cab driver every

take. Every time. This is us right here. Yeah. Because there are times in life when you say it. I say it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and I do, I, but I will say this. I do say it. My favorite place, I still say it in life in a crowded elevator. Perfect.

Yeah. When Rach and I get off. Especially if there's other people there, I go, this is us. Even if it's not your floor. Even if nobody has ever seen, I don't care. I don't know if they've seen the show. I just hope that they have. That's hilarious. I didn't know. That was a game that you played. Yeah.

Has anybody ever... That was the closest in the cab was the closest I ever got because I got it into a sentence. Sir, this is us right here. Yeah, because they couldn't have cut around it. Right. But what they did was, all the sound faded out to MLS right before. I think, Dan, he probably caused him the biggest headache.

Yeah. I didn't do it too much. I only did it where it was appropriate. He said $300,000 to close of the show trying to... That's why we didn't get a season seven. Yeah. It was your fault. We used it all out.

Your fault. No, but it's a great feeling being here. It's such so bittersweet. It's wonderful. Thanks for finally coming on. I remember last year we were going to do like a video, like for Zoom in and I was like, I don't want to know. No, no, no. We need you like in the flash.

This is it, yeah. Because we've had everybody, we've had, everybody has been able to come. Couple times. Some people have come a couple, dance come a couple times, right? They come twice. John. John just came twice. Yeah.

And everybody else has been once so far. But if you ever want to come back, brother. Yeah, like maybe for a specific special episode, like Kevin episode. Let me know. It's a joy. Yeah. We love you. Yeah, we love it.

We love it. Handsome mug. Will you look into your camera and say that was us? That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. da da-da-dum, da-da-dum, that was us.