That Was Us - Kevin and Madison's Bachelorette Parties | "Jerry 2.0" (515)

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

This week on That Was Us, we’re breaking down This Is Us Season 5, Episode 15: “Jerry 2.0.” As Kevin heads to the cabin for his bachelor party, old relationships, future plans, and big questions about love come bubbling to the surface. From rom-com fantasies to real-life commitments, the episode explores what happens when the life you imagined doesn’t quite match the life you’re living…and whether love is enough to bridge the gap. In this episode, the hosts chat about: * Long-distance relationships and the difficult balance between career ambitions and romantic love * Whether grand romantic gestures are truly romantic—or sometimes a form of love bombing * The pressure modern relationships place on partners to be everything to each other * Marriage, divorce, and the uncertainty of knowing whether you’re choosing the right person * Why some relationships can end without being considered failures They also break down the episode, including: * Kevin’s Jerry Maguire-inspired mission statement and the future he envisioned with Sophie * Sophie’s unexpected phone call and Kevin’s emotional decision to finally let go of the past * Nicky declaring Kevin “Jerry Maguire 2.0” and forcing him to confront his doubts about marrying Madison * Toby’s confession about the pressure he feels after losing his job and the San Francisco opportunity that could change everything * Madison’s hilarious bachelorette party, complete with Kevin masks, ghosting stories, and a very awkward surprise guest * The newlywed game that exposes how differently Kevin and Madison envision their future * Beth confiding in Rebecca about her fears of returning to the professional dance world And a friendly reminder, you can catch new episodes of That Was Us every Monday, a day early, exclusively on Hulu. Available on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts on Tuesdays like usual! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Thanks to Article for sponsoring this podcast! Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://www.article.com/discount/twu and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. - Get a $49 annual membership with promo code podcast at https://www.shipt.com/offer. Terms apply. - Learn more about your sleep today. Visit https://sleepdoctor.com/ ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season 5, episode 15, Jerry 2.0. During Kevin and Madison's Bachelor and Bachelorette weekends, doubts and cold feet begin to surface. Kevin reflects on his history with Sophie, while the Pearson family shares their own perspectives on romance, second chances, and whether love is written in the stars or built over time. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different,

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You're among fans. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. How are we doing?

Good. So just full disclosure here, Mandy and I have on the exact same clothes. Chris took it upon himself. I was just getting hot. You're bringing it back to like early podcast days. Remember? We had all just like different outfits. Also, you took your jacket off.

I did take my jacket over. This is true. I got warm. We just had to let that out. You got muscular. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'd try. 50, man. Maintaining the sexy at 50 is different. I told you what Barb said. What, Barb said? Oh, you did? That was very sweet. I'm giving Barb a shout out here. So Barb is, Barb does hair. She's my, she's, barbs my girl.

I love her. She's a dear friend. She does hair, the best hair in the land. And she saw Sterling at an event. And she came back and she was He was like, Mandy, Sterling's the most beautiful man I've ever seen. I was like, I know. He's also my son. So it feels strange to say that, but yes, I do. And she was like, I was going to go up and say hi and tell him that I knew you, but that I just felt weird. I was like, if anybody would give you a hug, it would be Sterling. Well, and now we know, there's no fist pumps.

Yeah. There's no pictures. It's all hugs, Barb. I prefer to hug. Get a hug, Barb. I really do. Get a hug. Have you guys seen this tangent?

Is it Barb and go to Vista Del Mara? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Barb and Star? Yes. I've heard it's the best movie ever. It's really good. Mandy. It's so good.

You'll pee on yourself. Oh, God, I love Christa-Wig. Especially after three kids. Like, drenched. Wait, and who is? It's Whig and who? It's Whig and her writing partner. What's her name?

She's so good. Barb? Annie Mummolo. Annie Mummoleau is in Rooster. Have you guys watched Rooster? I watched the pilot of Rooster. Keep going. Keep going.

Is it great? It's great. You love. She is so funny. Annie Mama. She's his stint. Watch Barb and Star. Okay.

She's great in Rooster. She's really funny in Rooster. Okay. I love that show. Okay. Yeah. I will watch Rooster. Who else?

What are you watching? This is a new podcast. What are you watching? What are you watching? Even Amy Poehler wins all the awards. And half of her questions are, what makes you laugh these days? What are you watching? She wins all the awards.

She wins all the awards in my book. I love that lady. I'm a big fan of the pit. Anybody in the pit? No? Not your cup of tea. I just... I have to watch something before I go to bed

that gives me anxiety. I'm not going to do it. I need to watch... Rooster. I need to watch something that I'm like... Rooster is light. And then I can go to bed. Understood.

How's it going? And I can sleep. Sh! Have you... Yeah, I've seen the PIP. Season one? Have you gotten into season two? The season and a half I've seen.

Season and a half? Yeah. They're about at a season and a half. Yeah. I think the work that they're doing is pretty impressive. Oh, I don't doubt it. I watched one episode and I was like, yeah, it's not for me.

I can't. I can't. It's too real. Yeah. It's too real. I've seen this. It's called ER. Then I heard there was an episode about a kid in a pool and I was like, I will absolutely

not watch that. It's like, don't you remember ever people saying the same thing to you about our show? Yeah. You know what I mean? And you get it. And it's like, you know, when you're ready. Maybe one day I will be in the frame of mind where I can watch that stuff. But it's like right now, like.

But by then there'll be new stuff to watch. Yeah. I was telling you about stand-up. Stand-up to Nikki Glazer's got a special on Hulu. But also, Kevin Hart's got this comedy show on Netflix. And it's called Funny A.F. And he's looking at these upcoming comedians and they have like this whole thing. Because this was the week of Netflix funny or die or whatnot.

They have a big comedy festival here. So this was building up to something. Again, I think one of the reasons why I wanted to roast for the party is that I have such. awe and reverence for the medium of standout. It's probably the thing that I watch more than anything else. Me too. Because I've always said to myself, I'm going to do five minutes one day. I'm going to do...

I can see that. I'm going to do it one day, and it's going to happen. It's going to be fun. But I just feel like to take things that are deeply personal from your life and to find the comedic spin on them, that elevates the energy of the room, but doesn't make... It may make them a little uncomfortable, but then also give them this release.

That's a gift, man. Chris, have you seen Rory Scovel? Oh, yeah. What's Rory's going? Oh. Yeah, I took Taylor to see him at Largo. Okay, so we went and just saw him at Largo, like, a couple weeks ago. I have never laughed so hard.

He's insane. Like, my abs hurt. I was like, ooh, this is a good workout. Really? He has a special, like, on Amazon or something. He has a new special that he just tape that's coming out of what he's been performing. Yeah. It was, I was like, this is unhinged how funny this is and how, oh my God.

Well, thank you for that introduction. Rory what? Scoval. Scoval. Scoval. S-C-O-V-E-L. Okay. I think he's maybe the, and he's on rooster.

That's what made me think of it. He has a bit part of, well, I, it's just like it's a, I, listen, Steve Curl could get it, okay? Yeah, cockadoodle do. Yeah, he is a silver fox. He's a handsome guy. He's a handsome guy. He's just like, I mean, he could be my dad. but like I

Yeah. He is so funny. Don't follow up. He could get it with he's like my dad. Don't, Mandy. We can't click this. No.

I, he's what? 63. I mean, technically. He could be a young dad. And he can't get it. Hey, Steve. I say that with affection and respect.

Wanna come on the pod? He's Dan's neighbor, you know. He is Dan's neighbor. I like, so in watching the pilot, The young lady who plays his daughter. His daughter is incredible. Fantastic.

Everyone on the show is great. And there's something else I know. There's a cop who kind of comes in. That's Rory's school! Oh, shit! He's a fucking beast! Yes, he's a beast. Because his stuff is so small, but everything he does.

But you could tell they were like, he's so good. We have to build his character more. And sometimes like now we're Taylor and I are watching the show and they're like, they just like hanging around him. Because he's so funny and he's so good. He's great. His like part sometimes you're like, there's no.

reason that a cop would be there. But it's like hilarious. It's so good. What's this cop doing? What's the cop at the hockey game? Okay, sure. Are you a Bill Lawrence person? Like, are you a lasso?

I knew Bill back in the day because of scrubs. Okay. And he's so lovely. And I did, that first season of Ted Lasso is how I felt about Rooster, where you're like, this is what we need in the world right now. Like, it's sweet and it's funny, but it feels like this balm of like just goodness. I got you. Like, Bill is really good at putting, like, goodness in the world.

You know what I mean? Shrinking and, like, they're all just like, they make you feel good. They're not complicated in a, you know, annoying way. Yeah, if we could have Bill Lawrence and Mike Schur running everything, Dan Fogelman. Yes. Yeah. Well, it's a reason those three guys are powerhouses. They're working.

They're good people and they make good things that, like, inherently make you feel good. Sure is a good place, right? Yeah. Yeah. And Parks and Rec right. Yeah. Yeah. He's great.

Okay. Anyway, I guess we should talk about this show. You know what I do love watching, though? This is us. This is great. And that that was us, uh, rewatched podcast. Talk about bringing good into the world. It's the eyes closed.

It's the eyes closed. You know what I was when you say it. It's the eyes closed and the mouth wide. That was us podcast. Okay. Okay. Yeah. A headgum podcast.

Is it, this is interesting because I, As I was looking at the title of the... Sherry 2.0. I was like, what does this mean? What does this have anything to do with? And they open up and Jack and Kevra at the movies. And they're watching this movie. And we don't get a chance to see what the movie is.

But they both just turn and look at each other and just like, Best movie ever. Best movie ever. And I still wasn't remembering what the reference was. What could it be? All right. Who do we want to start with? We'll start with the college big three.

Okay. Everyone's back in Pittsburgh. Yep. Pilot season didn't work out for Kev. He's back home. He's with Sophie. They're reunited. Yeah.

Because they've been living long distance. They've been living long distance and he is very nonchalon about it. Like, you know, we're back together. It was great. I'll probably end up back in California because that's just like night. Well, she says a couple of times that I'm glad that that's over. Yeah. I'm glad we don't have to go through that.

Yeah. You did it. It didn't work. And now you're back. Because clearly long distance is never great, Kevin. Yeah. It's not great. No.

For anybody. It's not ideal. No. Like the That Was Us podcast. That is ideal. Beth got an internship offer, but the internship is in Boston. That's right. Not ideal.

Not ideal. Hasn't decided what she's going to do yet because it would mean that her and Randall would have to be long distance. The whole group is also heading to the cabin. Yep. The college big three. They're headed with mom. Kate is solo. She's sort of making fun of herself about being what, like the fifth wheel or something.

Yeah. Yeah, and Randall and Beth are still talking about this potential long distance that's looming. Kevin keeps talking about how it's not a really big deal. And Sophie kind of finally admits like, hey, can you stop doing that? Because it was actually really hard for me. Yeah. I don't like that you keep saying that. Like it was cute, I guess at first, but now it's like that, like, no, that wasn't the reality.

That wasn't my reality at least, right? Yep. And he kind of insists that I'm sorry, but like I am going to. My manager told me, like, if I want to make it, I'm going to have to spend some more time in Los Angeles. I'm sorry, I am a walking red flag. Yeah, exactly. Get out while you can. Okay?

Get out while you can. And Sophie storms out. They're at the cabin, I should say, at this point. They're not really a huge jump. But they start to watch Jerry McGuire. Yeah. Right? And Kevin comments how he saw this movie with Dad and how much he loved it.

at some point Beth kind of like leaves I don't know if she's going to the kitchen maybe to get something from the fridge or something and sees Rebecca in the kitchen and she sort of stops her, Rebecca does and she was like oh by the way I haven't like been able to say but congratulations on this internship in Boston like that's a really big deal and Beth is appreciative

she knows you know she's like I'm not I'm not worried about Randall Rebecca's like I'm not worried about you guys either in the long distance she's like I'm just worried that it's going to be it's intense and if I'm not amazing at it

I really can't endure any more failure like I just feel like I have failed with dance and she kind of mentions that like I don't know if Randall's told you

but I used to dance and Rebecca's like oh I can relate I don't know if Randall told you but I used to sing she's like ah tusha essentially and so she gets it and that's kind of like

the end of the conversation right more or less. Like she just admits that's what's like preventing me from saying yes to this relationship. It's not the distance that might be that might potentially come between Randall and I. It's that like this is this firm for this urban planning.

Like it's a really special thing to be a part of but if it doesn't work out and if I'm not as good as I want to be like I don't know what I'm going to do with myself essentially. Right. Right. Kevin has this sort of back to him watching the movie of Jerry Maguire. The movie ends.

you know, we'll remember that Sophie has sort of stormed out. So it's just him watching it with Kate and, and Randall and Beth. And he has this like epiphany, this spiritual experience watching the movie. And he's like, hold on. And he runs upstairs and you're like, what is he doing? Right? So he comes back downstairs having written a mission statement like Jerry. And Sophie has come back at this point, right? And he kind of like declares everything. their future. What their future is going to be. Yeah. And he can see it so clearly now. Right? Is that essentially- He's going to be a successful actor.

We're going to get married and have kids. Like, I can see it all so clearly. Like, it's all together. Like, you're part of it, right? Yes. Yeah. Like, my life includes you. Yes.

We're going to accomplish all of these things that I want, but we're going to do it together, essentially. Yeah. And then this sort of, kind of like dovetails with Rebecca getting a call from Miguel, which kind of dovetails with them present day as well. But Miguel calls the cabin. He's like, I was just checking in on you guys.

Like, I think I called the house and I didn't hear from you and I wanted to make sure you're okay. And essentially, you know, she's talking about how strange it is to be the cabin with all of these kids in this particular juncture of their lives, right? Kevin's married. Randall and Beth are paired up. Kate obviously, she's flying solo, but it's just how it's made her sort of realize that maybe that part of her life isn't done either.

Maybe there's still some capacity of love, of having love in a romantic sense that she hasn't really ever considered before. But since Jack passed away that she's open to. And it's just interesting. It's like she's just kind of like coming to this conclusion and just telling a good friend about it. I mean, obviously it's sweet foreshadowing of like, oh, we know what's going to happen. You know, if you're open, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're open to something like that, then I think love will find a way. Yeah.

Like he was, he was very sweet. He says, of course you're, you're you. You're, you're, you're, I love you. I love you. I love you. Say it back, say it back, say it back. I love when we make these guys laugh. More, that was us after this short break.

Sleep sets the stage for the rest of your day. It's the time when your body quietly goes to work to heal your mind and body, steady your mood, and generally restore your energy so you can show up at work, home, and throughout life, rested and ready. When sleep feels like a strong, It affects everything. Your energy, your focus, your patience, productivity. They all depend on getting high quality sleep.

Ooh, boy, do we know that as parents. If you've noticed changes in your sleep patterns or experience symptoms like snoring or excessive daytime tiredness, sleep doctor can help you find a way back to great sleep. I need this, you guys. I need this in my life. We can move past the guesswork to help you understand exactly what's happening while you are asleep so you can stop powering through. the day and start living in it. I'll tell you what sleep doctor offers, you guys. Sleep doctor offers guidance and solutions for all your sleep problems. Not sure where to start. A sleep consult with a licensed sleep expert or our clinical grade home sleep study provides

the professional insight you need to uncover the root of your fatigue. The test is a simple and affordable alternative to a sleep lab and can be completed in your own bed over one night. No more guessing. Just clear answers and a path back to the rest you deserve. If you've been overlooking your sleep while optimizing everything else, this may be the missing piece. Visit sleepdoctor.com to stop guessing about your sleep and take the first step to waking up rested and ready. We just finished sort of assembling an outdoor kitchen situation.

Completely with a grill. Summer is here. Summer is here and this is going to be our first time grilling at our house outside. I'm so excited. I love that smell. When people in the neighborhood start grilling, and you're like, oh, right. It's summer. Tis the season.

Should I go say hi to my neighbors? Yeah. Would not be a good time? Invite them over. That little smell wafts and grabs you by the nostrils like a cartoon and pulls you over the fence into their yard. You guys know what I'm talking about. My kids just had hot dogs for the first time. For the first time.

For the first time. I'm a paranoid mom because they're a choking hazard, so I was a little scared even though you could cut them up. But my boys are obsessed with hot dogs now. Yeah. So this is going to be the season where I master the outdoor grill and my husband, too, with the hot dog. Shipped to the rescue. Ship to the rescue. With shipped, it's never just delivery because you can get groceries more, anything that you need, same day, shopped in the same way that you would.

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$100 or more. To claim visit article.com slash TWU and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com slash TWU for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Gang, my family and I took a road trip recently. And there's something about being in a car for an extended period of time that reminds me of this is us, right? It's everybody talking, somebody's telling an old story. Somebody else remembers it completely differently.

What's your favorite route? trip memory. I love taking road trips right now with my kids. Like they talk about it forever. They talk about stuff we did even two years ago. Things that I can't believe they would remember. Places we stopped in restaurants, the little toys that they got. I mean, it goes

such a long way, I think, at these specific ages. And truthfully, the Pearson's also spent half of their lives talking in cars. Seriously. But that's what I love about road trips. You get these long stretches where you're not rushing anywhere. You're just experiencing the trip.

And that's, you know what, that's getting harder to do these days. Exactly, sir, which is why I had at this moment halfway through the trip where I thought, my house is just sitting empty right now. You're out creating memories somewhere else. And it got me thinking about listing my space on Airbnb while I'm away. The challenge isn't the idea. It's finding time to manage everything. Yes, yes, especially with schedules as busy as ours. And that is why Airbnb's co-host network is such an interesting option.

Game changer. You can hire a vetted local co-host to help handle all the logistics. Yeah. This is the kind of support that has been holding me back from doing this. It's like I don't know if I have the time to be. Or the bandwidth. Or the bandwidth. Yeah, yeah.

The human bandwidth. Yeah, truly. Just to welcome a guest, make sure they have everything they need. Yes. Make sure the place is well taken care of, well-stocked, all of these things. You need a co-host, bro. A co-host can help with guest communication, reservations, on-site support, all of that. Which means I could spend less time.

checking my phone and more time enjoying the trip that I am actually on. If you are interested in listing your space on Airbnb, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Sleep sets the stage for the rest of your day. It's the time when your body quietly goes to work to heal your mind and body, steady your mood, and generally restore your energy so you can show up at work, home, and throughout life, rested and ready. When sleep feels like a struggle, it affects everything, your energy, your focus, your patience, productivity, they all depend on getting high-quality sleep. Ooh, boy, do we know that as parents. If you've noticed changes in your sleep patterns or experience symptoms like snoring or excessive daytime

tiredness, sleep doctor can help you find a way back to great sleep. I need this, you guys. I need this in my life. We can move past the guesswork to help you understand exactly what's happening while you are asleep so you can stop powering through the day and start living in it. I'm going to tell you what Sleep doctor offers, you guys. Sleep doctor offers guidance and solutions for all your sleep problems. Not sure where to start.

A sleep consult with a licensed sleep expert or our clinical grade home sleep study provides the professional insight you need to uncover the root of your fatigue. The test is a simple and affordable alternative to a sleep lab and can be completed in your own bed over one night. No more guessing. Just clear answers and a path back to the rest you deserve. If you've been overlooking your sleep while optimizing everything else, this may be the missing piece. Visit sleepdoctor.com to stop guessing about your sleep and take the first step to waking up rested and ready. Timetable, how long has Jackman gone, do you think?

Has it been over a year? It's less than two years. Less than two years. Over year less than two. Okay. That sounds right. 17 months? Sure.

I like that ballpark. My wife, everyone. once when I'll ask me this question, like, would you remarry if something happened to me? Like, if she passed away or whatnot. Not for a few months. Out of respect? What is this, Hamlet? You know what I'm saying?

Oh, man. What can I say, Ryan? Time marches on. What is your answer? It's something to that effect. But like, I... Of a few months? No, not the same effect.

But I was like, would you want me to live the rest of my life mourning your loss? She said yes. Yes, she did. Yes, she did. But that's not this. I don't think anybody, she says that now. But I actually believe. But she would be dead and wouldn't know the difference.

There you go. I actually believe that she wouldn't want that. Yeah, I don't think she would be sure. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think she says that in a moment or whatnot. But like when I think about like if something happened to me and if love found its way into Ryan Michelle's life. nothing would make me happy.

Same. Nothing would make me. You know what I'm saying? Yes, of course. And I feel like, you know, everybody has to go through a necessary grieving process, but then you also have to allow yourself the possibility of experiencing all that life has to offer while you are still alive. Yes.

You know what I'm saying? Life is too short to deny yourself. That's right. That's it. Okay. That's right. So that's the past. So that's the past.

Should we do? There's a lot of ways to go. Well, how about Randall? What about Randall? I mean, it's tough. Sort of ties into... I know they all... Everything is...

This tricky show. You can do cabin, cabin. You can do present and past. All right, let's do cabin cabin. In the present. Well, it just start off. The intro of it is, is Randall dressed in this fishing gear,

which I was like, holla, this is one of the best sight gags that I've seen in the show. Yeah. I cracked up instantly. And Beth was into it. She was so into it. Yeah, Beth is like,

who is this man that has replaced my husband? I have a thing for fishermen now. She's not evidently I like fishermen, right? Field and stream. We could. Field and stream. It's going to be me and Toby and Nikki and Kevin. It doesn't sound like it's going to be like a crazy time.

You know what I'm saying? He just wants to go fishing and hangings. She's like, you're going to put the hoe and polka nose? And he's like, no, we're putting the A and Earl Gray. Earl Gray, right? It's going to be much more lucky. We've seen Bachelor and Bachelor and Rat parties before, and those took place in Vegas. They didn't go much better.

No, but they were like, you're like, your idea of, like, Like what a bachelor's restaurant party. Did anybody else find it so sad, though? I was like, oh, they really have no friends. They really have no friends. This is where TV writers really write themselves into a corner. It's like, well, I guess either we have a bunch of extras come in or this lady ain't got no friends.

Or it has to be the, like, you have to have such a large cast in order to honor all those people and to like give some good actors an opportunity to work where they don't get a chance to be there that Often. It's hard to hold people. Yeah. They brought in four dudes to be Toby's friend. Toby's got all the friends. Toby's got friends. He's healthy. Nerd Squatch. Yeah. This family, it's just like, nope, it's only family.

It's just family, right? Yeah. So before we take off, like, we start a little makeout session and he goes to take off his boots. And she says, uh-uh. Keep him on. Keep him off. You can leave your boots on. It's Beth about to knock Randall's boots. That's right. A hundred percent. We depart on just old people, just old people, Bachelor and Bachelorette parties. Yeah.

Just real tame. We're at the cabin and I say to my brother when he gets there because they all come in on a private jet because they're fancy coming from LA or whatnot. Well, they're COVID too. Oh, there's COVID. There's COVID too. Fancy in COVID.

I got the football, which is my favorite prop, if you ever notice. Anytime Brown can hold a football, he will hold a football. And Dan didn't put me on the land. Anyway, nobody loves football more than Sterling. Nobody. Dan likes it a lot. I know.

Look, there's more time. There's more time. Let's tell our audience real quick, though. Kevin might be a big actor, but he's not a PJ actor. Yeah. You know what? How do we find? He's definitely like spending money to do the PJ for sure.

I bet you. Well, if Kevin's not, Justin probably is. No, I bet he's not. Oh, you know he is. No, I don't know. I'm just saying, like after a couple of years of tracker. Oh, sure. Yeah, he's probably, he's rocking the PJ.

Good for him. My wife asks, she's like, can we take a private? I'm like, well, who are you? Who do you think we are? You can take Jet Suite X? Hey, that's. I love JSX. I've never done it.

It's great. It's still? Yeah. Okay. All right, I'll do it. It's a private thing, which you? It's not. It's not private?

No, no. No. It's just local. It doesn't go very far. Quick tangent. I was talking to some friends of mine like a week and a half ago before we were going to stand for. about how I was flying southwest.

Right. And they were like, are you for real? I was like, it's a direct flight. You know, I'm going from here to San Francisco. Keep it simple. Keep it sweet. Da-da-da-da. And I said every once in a while, people will look at you and be like, are you flying? And I'm like, yeah, hey, how you doing?

And then they started talking about like, well, what would keep you from doing spirit? And I was like, you know what? I've never actually had a chance by here, like the hidden prices are the things that get you. Spirit is no longer. Yeah, it's gone. Yeah. But dude, you fly GSX up north. I mean, it's, they're $300.

It's not like a, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. And there's no security. Anyway. They come in from the private plane and whatnot, and Randall sort of tells his brother's like, hey, man, you did it. Like, you really did it. You remember last Thanksgiving when you said, by the time I'm 40, I want to be married with kids or whatnot?

Like, it's happened. Like, it may have done it in the wrong order or something, but like, here we are. And you see Kev still, his brain is still reeling from that thing that Zoe said in the last episode, right? Like, okay. His wheels are spinning. They say it's supposed to rain, but I don't think that God's going to do that to you. And then as he says, it pretty much the rain comes down. And the gents are confined to the cabin for the rest of this trip, right?

They decide to pop in Jerry Maguire, same way that they did in the past, right? And everybody has like some interesting reactions to it. I say like, oh, man, this movie still holds up. It's good. Like, what do you think, Kevin? He's like, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's like, dude, it's like you had a religious experience the first time we saw it. Now you see much more muted.

by the whole thing. And then Nikki. I love Griffin done so much. Go for it. I can see how you relate to this movie. It's practically your life. Just like a vaudeville star comes in. And Kevin's a little confused.

Like what? How is this my life? Yeah. I mean, and he just relates like. Wait, I think I found, I wrote some of it down. This is funny. It's practically your life on film. Yeah, you're like, Jerry McGuire 2.0

Just because, and let's, because Jerry has this thing, does this huge profession of his love at the end and sweeps her off her feet and blah, blah, blah, and they're going to live happily ever after. But there is, like, a certain era of movie that is post-romantic, like, post, I don't know when it is, but you look back now and it's just all like, this isn't healthy.

Yeah. This isn't even, this is barely romantic. Yeah. This is like love bomb. Like some, some. That he fell in love with the kid and then kind of just stayed with the woman out of convenience

essentially. And he's like, well, you fell in love with the idea of kids. And now you got the kids. And now you're just going to stay with Madison because it's convenient kind of. That's what he was eluding to. Yeah.

And there's a certain amount of me, like looking back on these movies. It's like, Of course, romantic these ideas sweeping each other off our feet. What are we doing? What are we even doing? This is crazy. This is crazy.

Is this crazy? Should we do this? Like that type of movie? It's just like, no, it's crazy. And you both need therapy. And this isn't going to work out. I've been to these weddings. So here's the thing.

The rom-com is sort of like, not come and gone completely, but they're not being made in the same volume that they were once upon a time, right? My boy, I used to get like, Rye used to read these romantic novels. And I would see like how they would infect our lives in terms of like, how come you can't be like this and da-da-da-da. I was like, well, that's a, that's a book, right? Like that's a, it's not reality. It's not reality per se. But now I'm sort of like on the other side of it.

And not that there should be some sort of post-mortem more than likely because things don't typically in like. like just happily ever after. They're happy and then they're not happy and then they're happy and then they're not happy. But I do think that there's something beautiful about sort of the aspirations of love being put out into the world. So I'm just taking the opposite side

because as they've been gone, I'd miss them. I miss the rom-com. I do too. I really do. There's a way that you felt after you left it. Like, I'm going to hold your hand and squeeze you and hold you tight and da-da-da-da-da-da. They're like, we don't get as much of anymore.

Maybe it is. Maybe there's too much reality now. Not enough romance. That's, I don't know. I second that. So, okay, so Nikki says this. And it really gets under Kevin's skin. We go to a commercial and comes back and catches like, hey man.

He's still staring at him. Hey, man. What the fuck is he? Yeah. That was mean? He says, that was mean and rude. Yeah. He's like, I know you're not used to talking to people.

And also mean. Show up at somebody's bachelor party and just blow it up, man. He's like, I'm with Madison because I'm crazy about Madison. And you can feel- You don't believe it coming out of his mouth because I'm crazy about her. You feel the room collectively go like, okay. Yeah, like everyone shifts like, oh, is that what we're going with? You're crazy about her?

You really sold that one. I'm with her because I am crazy about her. And that's what the script told me to say. Crazy about her. I'm crazy about her. So far, Toby, I don't think has had a word in this episode. And he's just like, he's side-eyeing everybody. He's catatonic a little bit.

Before we popped in the movie, like, Randall tried to ask you, like, hey, Tobias, you've been quiet for a minute. Like, what's going on with you? Before you could even get anything out, it got moved on. It just kind of get steam rolled over it, right? So the vibe of the party is now off. Kev going to the bedroom, what have you. And Randall comes in and checks on him. And he says, like, how do you ever really know if you're, like, marrying the right person?

Yeah. Which I think has a very sort of, like, interesting echo for Tobias, for Kev, right? And even for Randall, who I think is the person in the history of the show has been most concrete on his choices. But even in season three, they had their moments of like sort of just, the answer is you don't know. Like I asked myself this question. Like, we all enter into the, the three of us have entered into this institution of matrimony, right? Second time. The second of us.

Oh. Three of us. The three of us. Not together. Right? And there is, even though the statistics, I think we're at 51% now, say that they end, right, before death, right? Because we chose to. You still enter into it.

it with like, all right, it's going to be different for me, or I'm going to be on that 49% or whatever the case may be. And it takes a certain level of faith, belief, whatever it is, to even think that you should be in the minority. Right. Right? Yeah. It's not, there is no guarantee.

Right. And I think that's the thing that is most interesting about it for me. This is just the tangent of life. It's like, when I propose, to Ryan Michelle Bathay. And I bought this ring. It was the happiest I had ever been to spend. There was the biggest expense I'd ever made in my life.

And I was like, and it was the happiest I'd been with the expenditure because I was like, she's going to like this. And it's important to me that she likes this as we start this next sort of journey into life, right? We've been married for 20 years now. Blessed. Congrats. Thank you very much.

And have gone through all the emotions throughout the course of men. marriage, right? And moments of like, oh, we're going to make it? Not 100% sure, right? We go to therapy. We take moments of just sort of self-reflection or whatnot. And you make a decision together collectively because both people have to decide to stay on the train at the same time. Otherwise, you know, it doesn't work. And then there are times in which we'll explore as we get into like Tobias and and Kate, where they mutually decide like you know what maybe it is run its course I've heard my cousin who's gotten divorced say like people act like divorce is a failure and she says well maybe I was just supposed to be married for that amount of time and I

got from that amount of time exactly what I was supposed to get I think that can be very very true because you were talking about in the last episode that we're just a generation removed from or generation and a half two generations from people who just stayed married. And stayed angry and resentful. And just hateful towards one another. Yeah. Openly.

Yeah. Nobody wants that. So he asked the question. He's like, you know what, man? Come on. Let's go outside. Everybody's sitting around the fire. He said, gentlemen, we have been off our game today.

We got a brother over here with a case of cold feet. Like, let's have some real talk, essentially. Let's have some real talk about what's going on with everybody and how we can sort of pour into this dude. and the first person who goes is you. Is it Tobias? Yeah. What do you share, Tobias? I loved this night of shooting, by the way, sitting around the fire.

Yeah. That must have been so fun. I love a night like that where it's set up, it's comfortable. It's something we'd probably be doing anyways. Like if we were hanging out. Sure. You know, there's no heavy lifting involved. Everybody has a nice, something to say.

Yeah. And yeah, Toby steps up and, and, and, essentially gives his rom-com superhero monologue. I'm the king. I'm the king of rom-coms. And he essentially takes the negative view of Jerry Maguire now. It's like, wait a minute, they're not going to make it. That's not how you build a relationship.

Yeah. Like, just going back to what you were saying earlier in this conversation, because you sort of taking the same stance as Toby, rom-coms are meant, I think, for people who aren't necessarily married. Sure. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. Because then once you get into it, you're like, that's not how it.

Yeah. It's not called reality TV. Yeah. It's called a rom-com. Yeah. Should be called sci-fi. Nothing. Nothing annoys me more than the end of, what's the, what's the, what's the British love movie that comes

out at Christmas time? Love Actually. Love Actually. nothing annoys me more than that movie. First of all, it might be the worst movie I've ever seen. Wow. That is real shots fired.

A hot take for sure. But Homeboy with the cards at the end, we did an homage to that in paradise. I love that. Listen, that's fine. You know it's like one of Dan's favorite movie. Oh, my name is fine. But it's so creepy, him at the door

with her. She's like with his best friend. This is amazing. And he's like, and this is great podcasting, and mouthing words. Well, you should be watching it on Hulu. There you go.

So these types of tropes, I don't know. They make you mad. They make me a little bit. See, it's funny because, like, I have this very sort of strong connection to what I call the Triumvirate, which is about a boy, love actually, and Notting Hill.

Yeah, great movies. Like, I love them. I feel like... We're nothing without our hot takes. That's right. Listen. We are nothing without our hot takes. Everybody loves that.

I never met another person who doesn't like that movie. I understand that I'm on the outside. Come at us, guys. In the comment. And old girl, when they're like on the adult entertainment set and they're like... Not Martin Shorts. Martin Short. Martin Short.

Martin Short. I was like, Martin Short is... Martin Short's not in that movie. I didn't think Sterling likes this movie at all. Martin Freeman. I'm not saying there aren't funny moments in the movie. But just that sort of like idealized romanticism is something that you think needs to be checked. And also like I just picture like if that had happened to me.

Like or you know what I mean? Like if my best friend showed up at my house, I was like sending secret messages, I just need you to know that I love you no matter what. And I had to go to the FedEx office to get these giant. poster boards and I had to buy one of those oversized sharpies to write these letters out so you could see them from a distance because I don't want to say these things in front of your guests but know this I am sexually attracted to you it doesn't matter if you're with my best friend

anyways, have a good Christmas it's like anyways Merry Christmas it's like what like this could turn into a horror film really quickly she gets abducted off the front steps what's interesting about this I love your take versus mine because there's this synchronicity of actor and character that's transpiring because when you finish saying everything that you say, Randall says to you're going to be okay. That's right. The both of you are going to be okay. That's right. Wow. And it's all parallel, right? It's all like parallel. He can't, he's, the pressure that we heard about in the, in the episode before is getting to him. Yeah. He's like, I really need a job. Like, I really, really, really,

This whole opinion was brought to you by, I need a job. Yeah. It's the first time that we heard mention of an offer from San Francisco, but you can't really take an offer when you got two kids at home. Clearly, I wouldn't consider that. I shouldn't, right, guys? Guys, I shouldn't consider that. That's not the end of my marriage, right?

Right. If I did this? What do you guys think around this fire? Should I go and buy a house without consulting my wife up in San Francisco? When we get there? When we get there, I was like, come on, bro. What's going on? When we get there.

Then Nicodemus. Nicodemus. Nicodemus. Tobias and Nicodemus. Tobias and Nicodemus. We're going biblical right now. There's a spinoff. Uncle Nikki and Toby.

I'd watch it. I'd watch it. I'd totally watch it. And he says, like, he admits to acting out. He said, I had one chance at love 50 years ago. And I blew it. I totally blew it. And so me sort of speaking out against you is sort of me sort of acting out against

myself and he apologized, which was cool to see, right? Then just, what does Kev say? I didn't say anything. I think it then, then it's Miguel. Oh, Miguel, then it's Miguel. Talks about things being written in the stars. Yeah. Some things are written in the stars like Rebecca and your dad.

Yeah. And when things started with me and Rebecca, I knew it wasn't like that for us. Yeah. Which is also fine. Yeah. Not every story's written in the stars. Not every story's written in the stars. Other stories.

Love stories are written together. On poster board that you hold up his flashcards. Sure. For your best friend. Yeah, yeah. There's those stories too. Do you guys, like, I feel like we all are blessed enough. Let me not put words into that.

We probably would relate our current relationships to more of a Jack and Rebecca vibe. But like, I can't imagine what that was. Like, the character of Miguel, just for a second, Like the level of like, ire that he inspired from the audience, but like what this dude has endured and continues to show up, right? Like, that's a special person.

I don't know if I'm necessarily equipped to forever be in the shadow of another dude. And who he necessarily is like, I can't feel too bad about it because he was my dude too. Like, I love this guy. Like, I get why the shadow looms as large as it does, right? But maybe that's what makes it easier.

Yeah? Yeah. Because he understands and respects the level of, like, love and admiration the world and his family had for him because he had it too. And so it's like, it doesn't feel like a threat to him. Yeah. Maybe it's like back in the day when, like, brothers used to, like, die in the war and then the wife would marry the other brother. Take care of Clarice for me. Yeah, and then.

Like that. Yeah. Whatever you do, don't let Helen out of your sight. And brother says, buddy, I won't. But you better believe that. Helen, we're married now. He's dead. So maybe it's like that.

It's like that. Probably just like that. With Miguel and Rebecca. So that is the end of the cabin, right? It's the end of the cabin. I will just say that... Just a little wrap-ups. Little wrap-ups.

Like, Miguel has been so worried this entire time about Rebecca. Yep. Rebecca is at Madison's Bachelorette party. He's worried because he's not there. He's been with her, like, watching her like a hawk for the last, you know, year or whenever she got her diagnosis. And she insists before they both part, like, my meds are working. I'm going to be with my family.

Like, there's really nothing. You should go and enjoy, like, give me, like, a little bit of breathing room, essentially. And he's worried the whole time he's at the cabin because he can't get a hold of her. And there's, like, a cute, what was the line? Like, when you finally, like, connect with Kate or something, you're like, Rebecca's fine. They're just painting, like, naked, they're painting, like, a naked man right now. That's hit Miguel's line. Oh, Miguel's, yeah, yeah.

Oh, good news. Rebecca's fine. She's just painting a portrait of a naked man with the other wives. Yeah. That's good. Such a good line. That's good. Such a good line.

But at the end of this sort of Rebecca Miguel finally talk on the phone, she's just gotten home. He apologized for sort of like hovering, right? Yeah. And being in limbo and they kind of look at the stars together. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they look at the sky together. Yeah.

Yeah. It's very sweet. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. You guys, we've been talking about article for a long time now. Our entire podcast is furnished by article, our live show when we did that. Also furnished by article. We love everything we've received. And we've ordered from all different kind of genres, and it all seems to go together.

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Somebody else remembers it completely differently. What's your favorite road trip memory? I love taking road trips right now with my kids. They talk about it forever. They talk about stuff we did even two years ago. Things that I can't believe they would remember. Places we stopped in restaurants, the little toys that they got. I mean, it goes such a long way, I think, at these specific ages.

And truthfully, the Pearson's also spent half of their lives talking in cars. This is seriously. But that's what I love about road trips. You get these long stretches where you're not rushing anywhere. You're just experiencing the trip. And that's, you know what? That's getting harder to do these days. Exactly, sir.

Which is why I had this moment halfway through the trip where I thought, my house is just sitting empty right now. You're out creating memories somewhere else. And it got me thinking about listing my space on Airbnb while I'm away. The challenge isn't the idea. It's finding time to manage everything. Yes, yes. especially with schedules as busy as ours.

And that is why Airbnb's co-host network is such an interesting option. Game changer. You can hire a vetted local co-host to help handle all the logistics. Yeah, this is the kind of support that has been holding me back from doing this. It's like I don't know if I have the time to be. Or the bandwidth. Or the bandwidth. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, truly. To welcome a guest, make sure they have everything they need. Yes. Make sure the place is well taken care of, well-stocked, all of these things. You need a co-host, bro. A co-host can help with guest communication, reservations, on-site support, all of that. Which means I could spend less time checking my phone and more time enjoying the trip that I am actually on.

If you are interested in listing your space on Airbnb, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. We just finished sort of assembling an outdoor kitchen situation. Cool, complete with a grill. So this is, summer is here, and this is going to be our first time. grilling at our house outside. I'm so excited. I love that smell. When people in the neighborhood start grilling and you're like, oh, right. It's summer. Tis the season. Should I go say hi to my neighbors? Yeah. Would now be a good time? Yeah. Invite them over. That little smell wafs and grabs you by the nostrils like a cartoon and pulls you over the fence into their yard. You guys, you guys know what I'm

talking about. My kids just had hot dogs for the first time. For the first time. For the first time. I'm a paranoid mom because they're a choking hazard, so I was a little scared even No, you could cut them up. Yeah. But my boys are obsessed with hot dogs now. Yeah. So this is going to be the season where I master the outdoor grill and my husband, too, with the hot dog. Shipped to the rescue.

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And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Miguel calls the cabinet strange for Rebecca. Maybe there's some version of love, right? And then you can really see the stars cabin present. Nikki looking for Sally. We see Nikki looking for Sally on his phone. Toby is considering the San Francisco job.

He calls them, leaves a message. Like, I want to be in the running. Leaves the message. Randall's texting, texting Beth. Right, I was texting Beth in bed as Kev. Okay. So earlier, was this? I'm confused timeline-wise.

Is this at the top of 515 or the bottom of 514 that Sophie reaches out to Kev? I think this is in 515. It's all in 515? Yeah. Okay, so we can just move because that's part of this one. I know that's- Sophie reaches out to Kev at the top of this episode. Yeah. Okay.

And says that she saw him on the People magazine and saw that he was getting married with the kids and she just felt like it wouldn't be right for her to congratulate. It was an unknown phone number. She didn't expect him to pick up the phone. She thought she was just going to be leaving a message, but he is an inherently curious person. And so, like, because we already did the past,

the echoes as we get into the Bachelorette party are like, Sophie was a part of the past. Sophie was a part of the manifesto. Sophie is a person to call the check in and wish to congratulations. And then time got away, they had to break it off, but they would call each other back later. And he winds up telling his brother that Sophie reached out,

what have you. And the last thing we see, as Randall is texting with Beth and refers to her as Regina. and she refers to him as Cuba from Jerry McGuire, what have you. We see Kev deleting Sophie's information from his phone, right? Can I just give one little detail that I was like, wait. Give it to me. So when she calls, she was like, oh, I didn't think you would pick up.

It was an unknown number. And she's like, I changed my number. He's like, why did you change your number? And she's like, oh, it's like a story for another time. So when he hangs up with her and he's like, I'll call you back. I'm like, how is he going to call her? Maybe he saved it. Was he erasing a real number?

But it said unknown. She goes, I didn't think you would pick up. It was an unknown number. Oh, maybe because it, in my mind, it said like unknown number. Right, no, no, it was just like a number that came up without a name attached to it. Okay, okay, okay, that makes sense. Not a block's number. Yeah, or just like, you know how sometimes it'll say like unknown number.

Not star 60s possible spams. Totally. Potential spam. It was a potential spam and she's like, I can't believe you picked up. Hello? Hello? Famous actor Kevin Pearson. I'm feeling lonely.

Who is this? You need how much money wired to you directly? I can do that. That's how that ends, right? That answers my question. Bachelorette party. I was like, wait a second. Kate and Madison at Madison's bachelor's party.

They have Kevin masks, which are really cute. I remember those. Very cute. And then the doorbell rings, and Kate, It's like, ooh, who could that be? And it's this, like, handsome guy who says, vaxed and waxed for your pleasure. She takes her mask off, by the way,

because it just made me think that was the shirt we got that year, season five. Vaxed and waxed? Vaxed and waxed. I like it. Or this is a shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think I ever got one of those shirts. It was like our crew gift.

You didn't? No. It was COVID, and it said, like, vaxed and waxed on, like, the front pocket. It wasn't a hoodie? No. It was a T-shirt. Season 5. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I probably immediately donated it. I was like, you call Milo. I'm sure he'll figure out how to get you one. He probably has like boxes. Yeah, boxes full. Yeah, it's the top of this episode. Um, okay. Backston wax.

Backs and wax for your pleasure. And, uh, and Madison, he says like Madison and she's like, Joe. Yeah. And we're like, uh, oh, these guys have a history. They have a history, right? It's, um, he's handsome guy. Waxon, Waxon, taking him back. Baxon, Waxon, taking him back.

But you know what? She's actually totally unbothered about how awkward it could be. She's like, by the way, I won. Like this guy ghosted me, but jokes on him because like I'm marrying people's like most beautiful. And we have babies and like life, life is good essentially. Do you guys like an awkward situation? No. Explain.

What do you mean by liking? If I had been present at that when he walked in, I would have been like popping popcorn. I'm going. I hear you. Oh, not happening to you, but witnessing something. I don't even mind sometimes when I'm involved. But I especially enjoy it when it's happening around me. I love when you tell a story about how excited you get about watching something like that.

I do love it. No, no, no. It's like I can remember a couple specific examples of Sully being like, and then we went to this wedding. And he just like tells the whole story. I'm like, oh, wow. I was thinking about that wedding today because it's still a hold such a place in my heart. That's what I mean. It's like, I could see you just like more, more.

Which is oftentimes when people are like, like, I'll just say the intro to that story, that wedding. I won't get too into it in case somebody knows what wedding I'm talking about. But Rachel essentially goes, hey, an acquaintance coworker of mine is getting married next weekend a couple of hours from here, and he invited me. And I'm like, we're going. We'll make a weekend of it. We'll spend a couple hours at this thing. But the opportunity for awkwardness at a wedding is never higher. And this one delivered. This one delivered. I don't think I ever want to go to it. It was the best wedding. It was the best worst wedding. I've ever been to. It was so uncomfortable. And Rachel, visibly uncomfortable by the uncomfortable and me just like.

This is incredible. This is good. Yeah. We went, Ryan and I went to a wedding where a friend of hers was getting married and the officiant of the wedding was a former boyfriend of hers. Oh. And how is that? It was awesome.

Yeah. It was awesome in the way that. Oh, yeah. I was eating a lot of. We have to go. It was incredible. We have to go. Like, I've never been to a, to a high school reunion.

But I think someday I will go. You should. Just because it'll be fun to reminisce, but more than that, like, let's just get a look. Yeah. You know, let's just get a look. Let's get a look at each other. Like me, no hair, gray beard. Hey, what have you been up to?

It's kind of awesome. I go to like almost everyone. Of course. It's so much fun. That's why there's some fist pumping happening. You don't need to be taking pictures with everybody. I don't. I don't.

But, you know, tangent of that. My mentor from school, her name was Barbara Bull at the time, is now Barbara Krauss. She is 91 years young. She lives just outside of Portland, Oregon. And me and three of my former classmates who are advisees of her are gonna go visit her in Portland in September. Love it.

Very excited. Very excited. Love it. Okay, Bachelor party. Did anybody get the sense that while they were painting the nude, and Madison's talking about here's to never dating again? And Madison starts to recount the beginnings of her relationship with Kev. Yeah.

It's not very romantic. No. It's like everybody's like listening to it and they're trying to come up with their silver linings to spend it. But you're together now and you're like and everything is great. And look how it worked out. You have babies and. Yeah.

Rebecca trying to understand what ghosting is was really good. Yeah, he was a ghost to you? Was he a ghost to you? You tell me right now if Kevin was a ghost to you. It's the sincerity of the Rebecca delivery that's always sort of like, I just want to understand. Is that a terrible thing? Did you do a ghost?

Beth undercuts at the very end. She's like, slight turn for me, Joe? She's like, and she goes, oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but also, Rebecca did have one. She's like, I can do it in boxers or I can do fully nude or whatnot. And Rebecca's like, the latter.

Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah. She's like, I want to see some young flesh. Some young flesh. Okay. You're terrible, Joe. Joe, you yelled at them. Yeah.

Joe, you did that to her? You're terrible. You're terrible. That's just all of it. If you told me that there was going to be a bachelorette party with a 65-year-old woman and I'm like, can I please come? Can I please come? Like, I just want to see it all.

Yeah. Let's get into this newlywed game. All right? They were finished with Joe. Beth excuses herself to go check on some opportunities for her for the traditional dance academies or whatnot. Well, she says she's got to go pee. She says she got to go pee.

She's like, that's sangria one right through me. And Rebecca's like, hmm, something's soft. It's Rebecca, finding an opportunity, both in past and present, to pour into this woman who needs it. You know what I'm saying? Because Beth is talking about how, you know, I've gotten these opportunities from these traditional dance academies, but there's something about them that sort of took away the love of dance from me.

I don't know if that's necessarily something that I want to do. We saw, you know, because it is interesting, man. Like, if you are a dancer and ballet in particular, and you have curves, those curves count against you in that particular dance medium. Yeah. That's the end of the story. It's almost, yeah, pretty much. And so she's like, I don't want that to happen. And Rebecca's like, well, then change them.

You know what I'm saying? Go inside of there, figure out what it is that you need to do to make them better. New bit of information. Last episode, we learned I was a cheerleader right in high school. Now you're going to learn that right after college, I was in a ballet company. You were? For a year called the Metropolis Ballet Theater. Come on, man.

What are you talking about? What do you mean? What am I talking about? You're a ballet dancer? No. But I was in a ballet company. What does that look like? What it looks like is this.

When I was in college, I started in the dance department, a movement for actors course. Yeah. With one of their teachers. essentially knowing that I needed movement, but there are any of these, I try to take over these dance classes, and I'm like, not for me, yeah. I'll try, but I'm like interrupting everything. These girls have been dancing their whole lives

and they're very serious about this. And I am serious about it too, but they don't need to watch me stumble through this. I gotcha. And so we made a whole thing for actors. And then one of the ladies in the dance company, in the dance department, who was a ballet, because, No matter what you do, everyone does ballet, right? Yeah.

Little girls growing up. They take ballet and then they take other things and maybe they get better at modern or jazz or whatever the thing is. But everyone does ballet. But very soon, however you develop, if you are not the ballet type, ballet is no longer an option.

Yeah, it's off the table. No matter how much you love it, no matter how good you are at it, and this particular person named Sarah Harkness, thought that that was wrong. and said, you know what, there should be a place for us to do this. And so she essentially started like a ballet company for misfits that was like punk rock and avant-garde and all of the girls who were very good ballet dancers who wouldn't be considered your classic ballet, whatever. And they had us actors come in as lifting partners.

You know, we would move and we would do our best to do ballet or whatever. But yeah. That's so cool. That's very cool, man. Just letting you guys know it. Wow, I love all this new information about Zully. Used to be. So they get into the questions.

Nicky is holding the camera for Kev and reading the questions while Kate will pause and give Madison an opportunity to see what she thinks Kev is going to say. Right. First question is like, what is an ideal Sunday, right? And Madison is like, well, you know, like to have breakfast in bed and sort of hang out with the kids would be really cool. And Kev's like, you know, she's into this thing about, you know, hanging out in bed. So I think she'd want to sleep in bed and hang out with the kid. Nails it. Right?

Yeah. And it's funny, too, because as soon as this part started, I was like, this is going to go awful. Like, it's not going to go. I was prepared for it to just be question after question of just then just being wrong, wrong, wrong. But it was better than that. Yeah. Because you get the first one right. Then the second question was about like, what is your dreams for the future?

Yeah. Right? Like once you're empty nesters. Once you're empty nesters, right? Wow. So far off. Yeah. It's like, whoa, we have new.

18 years from now? Okay. Let's see, my 18-year plan. But it was, Madison talks about love of travel and going all over the place. Is it whatever I'm missing, you let me know. And Keves is really interesting because he sort of pauses and thinks. And he goes like, it's a trick question because she knows I never want to grow up. So there you go, right? And it was this moment that hits you.

Yeah. Like in the gut, like he has not. thought anything about an empty nest. About tomorrow, you know what I'm saying? Let alone 18 years ago. I'm not even remotely close to that. And so my sister clocks it as well. And I think my sister also being the linchpin between the past and the present of,

I've heard my brother be passionate about something. About the future. About the future. I've heard him be declared about this thing. and now I'm bearing witness to something very, very different. And so at the end of the whole thing, like Kate just sort of like, hey, man, to Madison, like, talk to me for a second real quick. Like, are you getting everything you need? Are you getting everything that you need out of this, right?

And it's the sort of, not the beginning, but sort of like us moving over these past couple episodes into the last episode of the season to be like, man, this isn't, it's, we keep trying to force like. like a square peg into a rectangular hole. Like it looks like they should fit, sorry. I'm not trying to even go there. Deadgummit. They look like they should fit. Yes. But they don't.

Yes. Right? And this is the first instance that we're seeing of Madison sort of considering that too. Yeah. Because at the end, she rewatches that clip and pauses it on like his face just being like. There's just a split second too,

where he like is thinking like, what do I say here? Yeah. A joke. Trick question. Yeah. It's like he just pauses for a millisecond where she's like, what is that? Too long. Too long.

Yeah. Yeah. It's... Women be catching those pauses. You know what I mean? I always be saying that. And she, but here's a thing, though. When Kate asks her that question, Madison says, I love him, Kate.

Yeah. I really do. Like that brother of yours has shown up in ways that I couldn't imagine. So like there's real love on her part. Do you know what I'm saying? And I think real love on his part too. Oh. You see that pause?

Yeah. I caught even I caught that one. I do. I think that he is in love and I think he probably articulate. I can't remember it exactly. I'm not saying in love. Are you making a strong distinction? We've heard this before.

A very big distinction. I think he is a love addict. Yeah. I think he loves Madison. He loves what she's brought into his life. He loves the stability. He loves the idea of what she represents. He's not in love with her.

Right. Okay. Fair enough. Because I also think that what she represents is also motherhood and family. And absent of that, there wouldn't be it. As evidenced by when they're talking about early in the relationship, like, yeah, your son. didn't really call me that much after I, you know, but like, you know, it was awkward and it was weird,

so I understood and they were all listening like, did he ghost you? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, the idea of family, I think is something that he has romanticized, that she is now representative of. And he's like, well, if that's what I need to do in order to have this family, then I will accept what's in front of me as is and dive into that.

And our show just does a great way of like, it's not in a heavy-handed sense. But as an audience, we're left going, this is something to consider. Are they a love, they're not a love story written in the stars, right? Like Jack and Rebecca, but are they a love story written together like Rebecca and Miguel? Yeah. Or are they something else entirely?

Are they not a love story in their own way? Sure. You know what I mean? I do think that, because I can't remember at all, but absent of Madison having the conversation, that she has with Kevin in the finale of the episode, he would have gotten married. Yes, I agree.

And I think they would have had a decent marriage. Yeah. I think. I think they would have gotten married. They probably wouldn't have stayed together. Yeah. But I think they would have gotten married. There's this thing, though, and then we'll segue out of it,

because I think we're at the end of the episode. But marriage is a romantic construct as a fairly new thing. Right. you know, people married for dowries and like, well, you know, you have this land and I have these animals, et cetera, and like our families know each other, et cetera, et cetera. There is something that we ask of our partners today that is somewhat unfair, I think. To be my lover, to be my confident, to be my inspiration, to be my best friend, to be the mother or slash father of my children, sometimes business partner, like, it's a lot that we put on each other, that maybe we

should find a way to have a little bit more grace. Yeah. Like, I think about that 80, 20 thing. Like, the bird is amazing. Like, I love Ryan Michelle to my core, right? But there are certain things that, like, when I got, no, no, no, here. Check this out. When I got the food poisoning, I didn't tell her.

And I didn't tell her because her worry would have caused me more anxiety. And I knew there was nothing she could do. And so I just kept it to myself until I was on the other side of it. I don't know if that's right or wrong. But you know, that's just like you know your relationship. There's some consideration. But I did text the Marco Polo thread. Yeah.

The guys who ratted me out and told you that like I didn't like my dog. Yeah. I did text them. Yeah. From the toilet? Pretty much. To let them know, like, guys, it's not going well. What could they do?

They could empathize with me in a way that wasn't sort of alarming. Sometimes my wife's concern feels alarming. You know what I mean? Yeah. And theirs is like, oh, you're going to be all right. Yeah. And that sucks, dude. I'm sorry, feel better.

Yeah. And that's all you needed. That's all I needed. You didn't need Ryan being like, I'm not there. Should I be there? What are we going to do with boys? Correct. I'll be right there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sort of thing. It'll take me 90 minutes to get there. Yeah. It takes long as it's like over two and a half hours, but... Not for her. Not for her. But it is one of those things that makes me wonder,

or just makes me contemplate like what we ask of our partners in modern relationships. For sure. Especially as we've been married for a while, like I feel like there's a level of, if I could tell 30-year-old Sterling about like what 50-year-old Sterling knows now. you do have this sort of romanticized. He may not. But you do have this sort of romanticized version of what my marriage is going to be. Sure.

I was like, well, my marriage is not going to be like that. My marriage is going to be this. And it's going to be all the good things. Yeah. And my marriage is all the good things. My marriage is all the things. It's all the things. You know what I'm saying?

And it is like to this question is like, could they have made it? Could they have not? I don't know. I think she deserved someone to be in love with her the same way that she is in love with him. Yeah. And I feel like when you're unequally yoked, that's a tough.

That's a tougher road dog. That's a recipe for something not working out in the act. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything you guys want to say in closing? I think we got a fan segment. We do have a fan segment. We have some emails, I believe, from some fans of the shoe. Let's come back with a little bit more on the fan segment,

and that was us. One of the biggest themes in this episode is the idea that love doesn't always look the way we expect it. And that sometimes the most meaningful relationships are the ones that arrive in a completely different form than we imagine. Yeah, we received two beautiful emails from listeners that connected with episode 515 in different ways,

and we are so excited to read them, so let's share our first email. I'll start. Dearest, That was us. I watched This Is Us during the early days of my grief after losing my husband. And it quietly helped me through that season. It gave me language for love, loss, and the unexpected ways life can continue,

which is why this episode resonated so deeply with me. I'm writing in response to your episode about how some relationships feel as though they were written in the stars and how others arrive in our lives in a completely different way. Season 5, Episode 15, Jerry 2.0. I lost my husband. It's a sentence that still feels heavy no matter how much time passes. Loving him was not something I ever questioned. It felt destined, woven into who I was becoming. When he died, it felt as though the future I had imagined vanished with him. For a long time, I believed that kind of love could only happen once, that lightning doesn't strike twice, especially after loss.

Grief has a way of convincing you that joy has a limit and that chapter you lived was the chapter you were meant to have. And then something unexpected happened. I fell in love again. Oh, wow. This relationship didn't arrive with the same certainty or symmetry as the first. It wasn't written in the same stars.

It came quietly, carefully, shaped by grief, maturity, and a deep awareness of how fragile life truly is. This love didn't replace what I lost. It exists alongside it. It honors it. Being remarried after losing my husband has taught me that love isn't one-size-fits-all. Some loves are fiery and fated, others are steady, chosen, and brave.

This love is different, not lesser, just different. It's rooted in survival, compassion, and the courage to open your heart again after it's been shattered. I wanted to share this perspective because conversations about love often forget those of us who carry both grief and gratitude at the same time. Loving again after loss isn't a betrayal of the past. It's a testament to the heart's resilience. Thank you for creating space

for conversations that remind us love doesn't follow one script and that sometimes the most meaningful relationships are the ones we never saw coming. Lots of love, Geneva W. Wow, Geneva. That was so beautiful. Oh!

Geneva with her late husband, Warren, and then Geneva with her husband, Jeff, in Europe. Oh, wow. Incredible. Beautiful. But it's very much like Rebecca, we were saying before. Completely, right? Like her love with Miguel.

Thank you, Geneva, for sharing. That was awesome. It was beautiful. Email from Mary. Hi, Mandy Sterling and Chris. I hope this email reaches you in time. I'm writing with the hopes that it will land in your inbox at the right time to be a part of your fan segment.

I've rewatched This Is Us three times. Wow, thank you. The third time being with all of you during the rewatch. Aw. This particular episode touches me because of the small moments between Rebecca and Beth at the bridal shower. As they walked out, Beth thanks Rebecca for the pep talk and encouragement about their prospective jobs.

But it's Rebecca's response of thanking Beth for making her feel normal that connects with me. In March 2016, my mother-in-law died after a long battle with cancer. But it was during her last few years before her passing that our relationship made all of the difference for both of us. The cancer spread to her brain and formed a tumor that pushed the ocular part. Unfortunately, after numerous surgeries to shrink the tumor to save her eye, in the end, her eye was removed. She was so sad and heartbroken, knowing that her health would only get worse. I would make light of her no longer having an eye by telling to keep all the unattractive people.

people on that side of her, L.O.L. Mostly, I would call her to get advice about my kids, fuss about her son, my husband, and overall just shoot the breeze. These phone calls were a sense of normalcy for her. I didn't fret about her health. I would ask how she was in the regular way. And if she shared, I listened. And if we talked about husbands, kids, or life in general, that was fine too. She had always thanked me for keeping the conversations like. because everyone else was always worrying. I always reminded her that I was there for her however she needed me. It was beautiful to see how the show added this small touch between a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law in such a simple way.

Thank you for always catching the moments of life that people never notice. Sincerely, Mary S. Thank you, Mary. Thank you so much, Mary. There's a picture with her and her mother-in-law. So sweet. Wow. It's just so nice to be reminded of how,

even these tiny little moments in the show, like these storylines can resonate with people and touch them. It's like, wow, and it's actually a detail that we kind of glossed over as we were talking about this episode. It is. That was sweet. Obviously, the conversation that the two of them had in the room, and Beth sort of, you know, letting her in on the fact that she had been talking to this recruiter

and was trying to figure her way back into the sort of the world of dance potentially. And on the way out, Rebecca was like, by the way, like, thank you. Everyone is always just so focused on me and my health and where I am and my mind. And it was just nice to be of service in such a normal way of just being able to have a conversation, mother-in-law to daughter-in-law. Like, I needed that. I need to feel that too. So, yeah, that's a, I appreciate Mary's email because that was something that we totally forgot to talk about in the episode.

And it makes you realize that, yeah, those small moms. moments, those small little gestures and storylines matter to people. It reminds me, every once in a while, like my in-laws, my father-in-law who since passed away would come to visit or whatnot. And when in-laws come to visit, you just kind of want them to relax and have a good time, you know, see a grandkid, bounce them in the lap, etc., etc. But it reminds me, each time they come, I don't know how this is for you guys. Like there's this desire to like, you know, they'll wash the dishes or they'll vacuum or they'll make something and or like I saw something was out of joint here so I decided to

everybody wants to feel of value the whole time they're here. Of course. And we in Western society sometimes don't do the best job as people get older, allowing them to show their value. Right. You know? And it is like that simple moment of just being able to pour into someone. Yeah.

Mean something. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I remind myself of these moments as I get older and I look forward to my kids having family and it's like, how am I show up and be of value in a way that doesn't also create chaos or, you know what I'm saying? Because that's the other side of it. I don't need you messing with this thing, Rijiga.

But so, yeah, I think I hold both of those things in my mind at the same time. Another great fan segment. Another great fan segment, another great episode. Always a joy, Christopher. Always a joy, Amanda. You guys delight me in ways that I can't even articulate. Likewise. Likewise. Likewise.

Mandy, I think it's your turn. You got to look into your camera. Tell them the name of the show. That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da da da da-da-dum. That was us.

That was a headgum podcast. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if.

Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.