That Was Us - Kevin & Sophie Reunite | "A Hell of a Week: Part Two" (412) with Logan Shroyer (Teen Kevin)

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 12: A Hell of a Week: Part Two. The one and only Logan Shroyer, AKA teen Kevin, joins us for a rewatch in the studio to chat about the most memorable parts of this episode, answer fan questions, and more! This episode shifts the focus to Kevin, as a call from Sophie brings old memories and unfinished feelings to the surface. Through flashbacks and emotional moments in the present, we see Kevin face his past and try to find clarity about his future. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Brought to you by Bombas, One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item Donated Head over to https://Bombas.com and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. -Help protect your home systems – and your wallet – with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just $4.99 a month. Go to https://HomeServe.com to find the plan that’s right for you. - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more, to claim, visit https://article.com/twu and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout - Find gifts so good you’ll want to keep them with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/twu for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:14:08 Fan Segment 01:25:46 Outro Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season four, episode 12, a hell of a week part two. This episode shifts the focus to Kevin as a call from Sophie brings old memories and unfinished feelings to the surface. Through flashbacks and emotional moments in the present, we see Kevin face his past and try to find clarity, about his future. Hello, friends. What's going on, gang? I'm not sure if you recognize that voice, but we have a special guest with us.

We do indeed. Everyone? Mr. Logan Schroier in the house. Right. Young Kev himself. What's going on, Big Dog. What's up? Good to be here.

It's great to see you. Mill Kev. We had him earlier on the show, but only via Zoom. So it's nice to have the man in the room. Yeah. We're smacking. to be in the middle of our trio.

You look good. You look handsome. Yeah, you do look handsome. I'm a handsome face. Look at the double denim. I love it. Do you're the double denim? I dig it.

The Canadian tucks, is that one of it? Yeah. That's not racist against Canadians, is it? No. Can you be a race? I don't believe they're a race, but. I think it's a compliment. I love a Canadian.

Also a Texas tuxedo. Say? Oh, really? Just the double denim. The T.T. Okay. Yeah. So we're talking about a hell of a week part do, right?

This is focusing on Kevin's story. We finished up with Randall last time, and then you see young Kev walking to the room with his dad. Yeah, at the end of that episode. Just being like, hey, dad, I can't sleep now, right? And so before we even, like, dive into, like, the granular of it, I'm curious, young Schroier, talk to us about what you remember about this episode

and how it landed with you. And rewatching it, what was it like? This was really interesting because this was one of, like, we do these trilogies, right? So this was one of the like, okay, here you go. And here's your like, here's some of your stuff. And I remember Dan and some of the people wanted Amanda and Amanda who played Sophie to watch Justin and watch Alex.

Alex, yeah. Watch their performance and kind of see like they wanted us to pick up on some of their stuff. Because they were just doing a lot of stuff for, I think, some of the first times that was establishing their bond a little bit, if I remember correctly. They hadn't done a ton together that showed what their relationship was maybe kind of like. Especially this time period, right? We knew that they were married. We knew something fractured their relationship.

He cheated and whatnot, you know, all of the drama that sort of surrounded it. But like this particular time period of Kevin Sophie, like as newlyweds and what that time period sort of looked like hasn't really been explored. And I think, I might be remembering this wrong, but between them, we mostly just got to see drama and we start to get a taste of maybe what it was like for them to be together. Yeah, yeah. So that was like, they wanted us to have a through line with it. Those foundational moments, those little in jokes, the backstory, yeah. Them sitting in the car.

That's right. Yeah. That's right. So you guys did come to set? We did come to set. And Justin's just hilarious in every, like, you know, so I remember that. And I remember, like, I can't help, but start watching. some of the technical stuff, of course.

So, you know, Kevin Hooks crushed it. The director was watching a lot of that stuff. You know, it's funny, rewatching this. I remember being so nervous for some of these scenes. Really? What was different about this one about this episode? I think that particularly for me, for some reason, that scene at the fire where I'm having a joke about the alternate endings

to Goodwill hunting, I was like, this isn't gonna be funny. Like, I'm just like, I, and I kept forgetting the lines when I was working on it myself. So I was so in my head about it. I was so, like, so me watching that back is a little bit tough. I'm like, I don't know if I got that one, guys.

It's fine, none of that landed on. Not at all, not at all, that is truly just, you're in your head about it. It never does, but it's so interesting to have to be reliving those moments as a performance as we sit through, I mean, we've been sitting through every episode. Yes, we have. So it's, it is a whole new emotional experience to.

I'm curious if you remember sort of the technical aspect of like when we do these like trio episodes, especially some of these specifically that like blend some of the same scenes from different points of view, like the night of or the day of my birthday party and you and Sophie come over and Randall's helping me. fix the washing machine and he has his underwear splayed out and blah and and kate's on the phone with mark it's like it is so interesting to go back and watch these and i'm immediately put back in that place of like oh like i remember reading the script and then like showing up to work that day and you're like how we have to choreograph this and block this in a certain way where and things

are going to be shot a certain way at a certain time like it's just it's a it's a lot if you oh yeah do you have hooks and just in there at the same time I believe they were. And even Milo directed us, Sophie and I sitting in the theater because of a location thing. Oh, interesting. So they just threw that one to Milo. So he just did that, yeah, when it shuts down. Yeah.

Yeah, and so it was like a whole. Oh, that's crazy. That's really interesting. Yeah, so there's like, there's just a lot of thought about, you know, it happens several points on our show too of just like making sure that. all of our bases are covered and it's yeah it's just a lot of coordinating with like oh i need this shot for this episode and this person's perspective from this episode and you're kind of like shooting it all at once even if you're specifically just working on part one or part two or part three you know and this this trio it seems unique to me unless i'm misremember like the way that

this is structured seems unique to our entire series the way that's all tied together a lot of those themes, it just seems different, right? Yeah, I mean, I think the one at the end. Well, when the power goes out, that was a big one. Oh, yeah. Remember that? You guys are stuck in that place? The power goes out and Ken was pulling his hair out every day because it was so crazy.

Right. That doesn't narrow it. I mean, that doesn't, I don't know what episode you're talking about. Yeah, I mean, I feel like to a certain degree, we always like to explore a certain time period from these three different, like, perspectives. Yeah, yeah. Definitely at the end, that last, like, trio of episodes that we all did had that, like, interwoven you guys at the pool and breaking in at night, that whole, yeah.

But it is, I think it's the first time that we've done the Roshaman sort of thing with the trio. Yeah. Because the first one, they seemed sort of separate and distinct. Yeah. But this one comes back to that same night. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was so cool to me about, I was sitting in the writing room and they were like, yeah, this is our like Roshaman thing. I was like, you guys are so cool. This is awesome. This is so cool. I actually happened to have seen that. So I was like,

I would need to Google. I know it. This is awesome. So should we start with the beginning of this episode? Kind of like we're picking up where we left off with little tiny, sweet four-year-old Kevin. Oh my gosh. And he really wants to, he can't sleep and he really wants this mobile. that sort of used to hang above his crib

that had like sheep, pounding sheep, which is long gone. I kind of laughed to myself when Jack was, you know, because Rebecca's passed out on cough medicine at this point, he's like, oh, we'll wake up your mom, like, she'll know where it is. I'm like, do you think she kept that? Yeah. From when they had cribs? No, no, that's been given away.

It's been, yeah, so he does kind of like wake her up, and she's like, what? No, no, I gave that to the goodwill. like so jack's kind of at a loss as to what to do to help um then she takes another swig of that cough medicine some more tussin than just yeah it'll help you get your z's yeah i won't name it directly but you know what i'm talking about correct it's the old cough syrup yeah yeah yeah the good stuff yeah exactly yeah there you go sipping on lean um and doesn't he explain to kevin that sometimes we lose things that we love and we feel sad but we also he also promised

is that we'll find something else that we love to sort of like take its place. Right. And he gives him his little tiger. I guess I was just going on that whole tangent to that like storyline. It is a device that we kind of like, in all of these episodes, we're kind of, you know, jumping around in time, but we keep coming back to the littlest Pearson at their, the, the youngest, you know, version of them. And the imprinting, right, of this process.

Yeah. The imprinting that happens on Randall. Sure. Now we're seeing this one, this little miniature lesson that they're learning from their father, trying to figure out how to help them self-soothe, you know, how to manage discomfort in their life. And it's all just happening right here at this little bedtime. It's really sweet and really terrifying and really like comfort. And seeing how they sort of carry that lesson with them throughout their life.

And when they lean on it, when they pull away from it. That part got me when I was rewatching it at the end. Because what they do so well on this show is the little quick flashes back to things. And I think when we hear that about Kevin losing something and finding something else, it flashes to the funeral. And Sophie hands him the note. And I'm like, I forgot about this. Oh, my gosh. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's also, well, it's also what we do know from the last episode is that Kev was in bed with somebody. So it's important to remember, like, the back. Right. Because we know coming into the back half that he has a pregnant fiance. Right.

Yes. Right. And then we have a young, blonde child. He has a young blonde child. We've seen that in the future. Flash forward, yeah. Flash forward, forward, yeah. Yes.

Future forward, whatever we're talking about. Time is one is one. And then we know we see somebody blonde lying in the bed. And so this idea will come back to it in a second. Yeah. How is that all tied together? Yeah, yeah. The person in bed, the fiance?

And what we know is that this person, if, obviously they were in bed, but if they have succeeded in impregnation. I like how delicately you put that. This is the woman. Right. Yeah. Because it's only so much time, right? They're 30. Because he has stated, he says he wants to be, have kids and married by such or such a time.

And we know that happens. He's bareback. Apparently. that was in the script actually yeah yeah who said that yeah shall we get back to the show yep it's so irresponsible I just call it out right now but again it's deeply irresponsible it's it's you just forgive him for it because he's Kevin Pearson yeah he gets away with God bless him okay literally where else man yeah yeah you got you got this no no no no I'm putting my notes no no don't put your notes away oh don't please don't please don't

put your nose down. It all falls apart, darling. It all falls apart. Oh, okay. So Kev's working with him night Shambla. Yep. And... Super cool, by the way. Did you get a chance of Mita, too? No, no, I didn't. I met him. I met him. I met him briefly. I shot a film. And got cut out of it.

And got cut out of it. Out of a Shamblau? Got cut out of split. Oh, man. Yeah. Had a pretty cool part. It was a lot of fun. Can you give us a line from it? No. Many, many years ago. But I had a whole thing where I was, who is this? Or I have to get the name right.

Is Betty Buckley an older stage actress? Yeah, Broadway. So she had sort of like a love affair and she had a crush on me. And I sort of looked at her as a mentor and it was like this whole parallel thing. This was in the movie? This was in a cut the whole thing out. Wow. Oh, right.

Betty Buckley plays the old. Okay. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, it's fun. Did you see him on this set? I didn't get Jesus. seen him on the set? Have you seen him since? I've been like, dude, I'm SKB. You cut me out?

You cut me out on your movie? What happens when you get cut out? They tell you? It's happened several times. You guys have never been to cut out of a movie? They wouldn't dare. I don't think they tell you. They wouldn't dare. You guys have never been cut out. First of all. The first time, hey, the first time it happened, I brought my mom to the movie theater with my sister thinking it was going to be a whole thing. And no one told you. Nobody told me. Because I had a small part, right? And there was a scene with me and Sinai Lathan in a movie called Brown Sugar. And as soon as in the movie, I saw they cut over this Method Man, because Method Man was in it too. I was like, oh, they cut me out of it. And then my mom was like, oh, were you the

black guy playing basketball in the corner of like the shot? I was like, no, mom. I was just, I just got cut out of a movie. Second time it happened, I was in a film called Taxi with Jimmy Fallon and Queen Latifah. And I was a Central Park mounted police officer. Excellent. And at that time, I was very uncomfortable. on my horse. And I think they saw that and they just cut it out. Since I've had to

do more horseback riding, I'm much better now, right? Third time it happened was the born legacy, the one with Jeremy Renner. I was a cop pulling Jeremy Renner over as he was about to do something illegal and I thought they thought

I was about to catch him or whatnot. But that time, the director called me. Yeah. As should. He called me and told me. And the same thing happened with Knight. He prefers night.

And he was like, you listen, man. It just didn't fit with the rest of the show. Like, your work was fantastic and everything. But, like, I had to let it go. I think it's a badge of honor. To be a consequential enough to have had the opportunity to be cut out of something is... I guess so. Now when I look at scripts, I'm like, can they cut me out?

Right. Is this cutoutable? I don't do that because the answer is most of the time, yes. I'm just trying to still stay. in it, though, right? More that was us after this short break. This time of year, we're all about comfort, and bombus nails it. Sox, slippers, teas, even underwear that feels like a second skin.

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Yeah, he's great. He's hysterical. What's ever an actor? He's in all of his movies. That's right. Yeah. He hitchcocks all of his movies. Yep, yep, yep, yeah.

So he's telling him about. about his bad date. The PAC, Sophie is calling. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know what to do. And who says this line? Because I put it in quotes. Oh, Knight says it.

He's like, trust me, man. It's the ending everyone wants, and they still won't see it coming. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it when they do that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, look, I see what y'all do, huh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's the movie and the movie, like, got you. So then he takes Sophie's call, found out that Sophie's mom has passed away. And let's give a shout out. Is it Westfeld? Jennifer?

Oh, yeah, she's great. Dude, you got to tell me. Sophie's mom. Claire. Claire. Yeah. How was it working with her? Because what was the thing that got her?

She, it was her and her girlfriend, her female friend, they did this movie. And it was really hilarious. Jessica Stein? Is that? It might have been? Something like, you know what I'm saying? It was very, very funny. What I found interesting watching it, she flirted this line of like being.

inappropriate, but like loving and sort of like giving you what you needed and didn't get from mom. At that point in time in your life that you weren't getting from anybody else. You know what I'm saying? She was so loving and sweet and just present for you. Right? So I'm just curious. What are your scenes with her?

What do you remember? They were great. I mean, I think, yeah, it was interesting watching it back, remembering this too is sort of like the moment before the scene when I kind of enter in, I'm thinking about how Rebecca just didn't even watch the, you know. And I'm, like, kind of devastated, but I'm playing it off, right? Of course, but it shuts me down in a way that even I notice, maybe not everybody notices it, but she was just so warm and, like, grabbing my face and, like, quickly establishing a rapport

that's so good, like, wasn't too careful about it. And so I was just able to be there with her and, like, do the, you know, trying to to laugh it off and then know this actually means so much, but I'm playing it. I mean, it was just amazing. It's like a wonderful act of generosity when an actor gives you something where you, the less you have to act. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like she was so, like, she's like, I can see what you need. You were great. First of all, my first camera thing was an under five on the guiding light. Excellent. Or just five lines or less on a soap opera. No, please don't. Let's find that club. It was with Ryan Michelle Bathay.

What? Same scene? Same scene. Find it. We were in a Lamar's class together. Google it. Everybody, everybody would you. Lost the podcast. Go on Google.

I had to give her like a, the Lamas teacher who was also a classmate of ours was talking about all the things you have to do for Mommy as they're getting ready for labor. And she's like, she may need sponge baths or massages or something. And Ryan looks at me and she goes sponge baths. I say all the time. Right. And here's the thing.

That was your line? That was my line. And at the time, Ryan and I were not talking to each other. I was actually deeply frustrated by the fact that I had to do this scene with Ryan and Michelle. And so she was in the middle of a feud? A little bit, a little bit. And so she would do things where she'd constantly touch me. And she knew, I was like, please don't touch me.

Please leave me alone. So she'd be doing this like the whole time. And then she'd turn around because she's in between my legs doing Lamas thing. And so she leans over the shoulder and goes, you know, sponge her. And I looked her square. the forehead, square in the forehead, and I say it all the time. Not eye contact. Zero.

Sterling. I was so bad. I'm like, I don't want to piss you off. I'm going to stop doing this podcast. I'm going to start a new podcast that is dedicated to finding this scene. And it's going to be an eight episode breakdown of this scene of the guiding light. Well, let me say this. When I went home for Thanksgiving,

my mom had it on VHS and she would replay it over and over and she said you see how he did that you see how he did this and I was like oh my gosh so much more supportive than Rebecca that's what he was looking for that's what he was missing that's what he was looking for but life was life and for everybody

you know what I'm saying big time man so much stuff going on so it was something that you didn't clock but then somebody was there two clocking right which is really really cool Because what we hear about Claire is that eventually we want to find that she's deeply irresponsible. Yeah. Right? As a parent.

As a parent. And it seems like so. You get little glimpses of it. Her attitude. Yeah. Aurora Borealis. The Freiness with the Prosecco. Yeah.

Yeah. Like little like, oh. Hmm. Yeah. She passed away complications from MS. Yeah. And what's interesting. about it is that, and I'm not going to my note, so if you need, don't, guys, I'm, I'm just

freestyle in here. Keep me on track. I will. Is that when Sophie winds up talking to Kev in the present day, it's like nobody really knew her the same way that you did. Yeah. Right? And she just, he was the only person that he, she could really confide in and understood the nature of the relationship that she had, because her fiancee right now, never met him, et cetera. So he winds up coming to the funeral. Yeah. Right?

And he sits down quietly. First of all, man can wear a suit. I love a man in the black suit with a black tie. I mean, man can wear any suit. He kills him. Really anything. He doesn't really like button the top button all the way. I don't want to blow up Justin's spot.

But like, yeah, he gets, early on, he was getting his suits at Indochino. Is that good or bad? I mean, it's, it's a suit shop that's accessible to everyone. Like, these aren't like 10,000. Yeah, it wasn't like a Dior. These are, like, $10,000 suits. This man, this man picks out fabric. It's like, yeah, just make me another one.

And it just falls on him. Yeah. And you're just like, get the out of here. Yeah. Buying off the rack. Yeah. I got you. Yeah.

Like Justin could wear anything. He looks great. Yeah. And she's, shout out to A. Breckenridge, every time I see her, I kind of fall in love. She's incredible. She's just gorgeous in every way. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Like, her soul pours through. She's got like this cherubic skinned, like rosy cheeks and everything. I was just like, I want to take care of her, right? And she's giving this wonderful sort of idea about how her mom was a handful and a pain in the butt. But good, but good ultimately. And they had this coffee shop that they found near Sophie's apartment in Brooklyn. And it was like a hole in the wall, but it kind of became their place. And they had inside jokes.

and they laughed, they cried. They, like, did all of the things there. And it was in that coffee shop when she got the phone call and got the news that her mom had passed away, which she thought was, like, very fitting. When is the moment that she clocks him because it sort of, like, soothes her in the really loving way?

She has a really difficult moment in the speech. Right. I don't remember exactly where in the dialogue. Yeah, I mean, maybe it was just about, like, getting the call there in the coffee shop. Yeah, I think she says, now I can never. go back there.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the plant for him. Yeah. And he kind of realized, she kind of has, is overwhelmed by that idea in the moment. And she doesn't know where to look, but she certainly doesn't look to her husband for... Fiance. And just to sort of go back to, when Kevin gets back to Pittsburgh, it's like we see a

vignette, like little flashes of Logan and Amanda, Kevin and Sophie, like from the past, like, their life together. in Pittsburgh. And again, it just continues to paint a more fully realized picture at this point of this couple from the past that like a time period that we don't know a ton about. And a really important time period. There's the night of the fire. There's, you know, so it's like that's, there's a specificity that I think is really important. It's like this is part of what has like locked this couple in for so long. They still keep coming back to each other, you know? How old were you when you started the series?

17. I was in high school. So now this episode, you will have graduated high school. You were probably 19 when we made 20 when we were shooting these episodes. Probably 20. Yeah? Probably 20. And I was going to say, by the way, what's really beautiful about, I think, this episode, too, is these moments with Kevin and Sophie, all these locations are the horrific locations.

of the jack dying experience of all of that. And so it's the beauty that he had in that time. Yeah. You know what I mean? Before his life changed forever. I mean, I'm watching in the scene, Justin pull up to the campfire location, which we shot at Griffith.

I get that feeling in the pit of my stomach because I have that relationship to it. But then it's like, oh yeah, and then you see these amazing moments with young Kevin and Sophie. And so I don't know. Coming back there after the movie. and just like, yeah, it's still, there's like an innocence to it. We don't see a lot of the joy for Kevin this time.

And so I don't know. I feel like it was significant that it was in those same locations. Well, I mean, this is a linchpin for this family, right? This moment changed everything as it would for anybody. We all have those moments in our life, right? And it's like the ability and the device of this show to be able to look back right before everything changed. forever is so there is a really sort of beautiful aspect of that yeah so we want to talk about how kevin and sophie got to the campsite to return are we are we there in that storyline at just after

the funeral he goes to the reception are we still talking about yeah yeah he shows up on the front lawn with donuts box of donuts right right right right as part of their day yeah they're steel steel city steel city donuts that sounds right Steel City Donuts. Look at you clocking the donuts. I see you. I always clock a donut. I see you home.

That's my guy right there. Desert is my life's work. But he's not sure if he should go inside. Correct. So he calls from outside and it's a beautiful shot. I love the practical phone call on camera. Yeah, me too. Through the window.

I mean, it was a beautiful shot. And I want to explain that to the audience when I, most of the phone calls that we do, you have like somebody reading the lines off-camera or what have you, and it's not like an actual... It's not usually the other actor either. It's like an AD on set who's like, hey, Randall, it's Kate. Yeah. I'm sad today.

Yeah. And you're like, okay, like you're just... Yeah, you're acting with somebody who's not an actor. Right. All of that. And so when you see, there's a certain kind of magic for me. I wonder if the audience feels it. When you see one person on the phone and the other person on the phone

in the same shot. Yeah. And you can hear their voice coming through. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, yeah, it was great. It makes such a difference. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And so he says, I'm outside and you see her look through. And he goes, you know, I was debating on whether or not I should come inside or not. And she says, I'm like, it's probably not a good idea. And he's like, oh, yeah, right. She immediately comes outside, comes up to him and says, get me out of here. Yeah. He's like, yeah.

So good. And there go. And it's the connection between these two people. Listen, I'm trying to think, honestly. And we all know, like, not a spoiler alert, because you guys are rewatching the show with us or whatnot, but I'm going to jump into the future. Can you imagine if it was anybody else?

No. Do you understand what I understand? Like, I don't, I mean, like, there's some people who thought, I remember this was a hot take, where somebody was like, you know what, it should have been Madison. Hmm.

Right? Where they're saying that, like, you know, she'd evolved to a place in his life and, like, he'd already gone through enough with Sophie or whatnot, like, maybe to turn a different chat. They didn't. They loved each other. They weren't in love with each other. Right, right, right. And everybody deserves that.

We put so much, the investment into the history of this relationship, I feel as an audience where it's like, I need these two people. This is end game. It has to be. So, okay, I just wanted to say that. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I feel you. I feel you.

He complements her engagement ring. He asks, is it also, so there's a story about a ring, her grandmother's ring, because he asks, is that the grandmother's ring, doesn't he? I believe so, yeah. Right. Because in the past, Logan asks Claire, Sophie's mom. You know, Sophie really loves her grandmother's ring and like, really. And I'm here to sort of ask you for the ring now that we're married.

And her mom is sort of like, you have to. it. Like, you guys, this is such a young relationship. It's not that I don't trust you or don't believe in your love, but, like, I don't think you're there yet. And I don't believe in your love. Fully just yet. Yeah, fully just yet. I'm going to keep that ring. I was like, oh, girlfriend's going to sell that ring or something. She says you're going to go a lot of places. Yeah. She saw you. She's fully. And was like, she was able to love him independent of his relationship to her daughter. You know what I mean?

Which was like a really cool thing. Do you guys have anybody in your life like that growing up? Like, was there somebody outside of your parents who was a parental figure that cared about you that way? You did? Definitely. Yeah, I lived in Oklahoma from when I was about five until I was 11. And I practically grew up at another family's house also because they had kids kind of the age of my brothers and my friend. Meg, Caleb and Haley, their mom, Christy, is just, like, kind of my mom also.

Yeah. And I go back, I just saw her, too. And she's just the best. And I like, they're in the same house. They redid it and stuff. But it's just the best to go back there. And she just was so sweet. You can light up from the inside, just talking about it.

That's awesome. What about you, man? Not when I was their age. Okay. I kind of got my, I have L.A. parents. Okay. Uh, Valerie Mayhew and Matt Greenberg, they're both writers, but Valerie gave me my first job out of college. She was directing the small theater production in Westwood.

Yeah. Of the fantastics, you know, paid like $150 bucks a week. Sure. But what it was was a bunch of Hollywood executives who love theater, who just want to do a little theater. Okay. And so she was a writer on the X-Files. Like, one of the other, one of my co-stars was the development executive at Paramount. The musical director was Tom Jones's arranger.

Like all of these industry people who were way too big for this little church production of the fantastics. And so Val and Matt kind of took me in as I was 21 and floating around and would bring me home and cook me food and have adult conversations with me and give me advice about the industry and blah, blah. Are you still close with that? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. You see them all the time. Why's you, Mandy Moore? I had one of my best friend growing up, Jessie.

Her mom, Elaine, was definitely, like, the other adult that I felt like I could have conversations with outside of my parents that, like, we did, Jesse and I did theater together and stuff. And I just, I felt so close to them. That was, like, the household that you could, like, run in and sleep over without asking your parents. And, you know what I mean? Like, she'd get us McDonald's on the way. Like, it was that kind of relationship. and she'd take us to the mall and, yeah, amazing. But certainly, like, able to have that connection

and have certain conversations that maybe you wouldn't have with your parents feeling comfortable, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had that with her. Not quite at that same age, so, but, like, probably closer to the kids. I just have a teacher.

Her name is Barbara Bull. Her name is now Barbara Krauss as she's remarried. She is like a second mom. She is still alive. She's probably about 86 right now. One of the most influential people in my life. Wow. Hands down.

Back in St. Louis. Back in St. Louis. She was my math teacher and then my advisor up until I graduated. But she went to Stanford. And I remember asking her, like, do you think I could get into Stanford? She's like, well, you have to work hard. She's like, okay. She used to drive nothing but outies.

And I used to drive Volkswagen's until I could afford to. until I could afford an Audi, and now I drive an Audi. She was the first person to tell me about investing. And we had a Mac lab when everybody was running PC. She's like, there's this company. I think they make a very user-friendly product, right? They've almost gone bankrupt a few times, but I think they're going to be around for a while. First investment for Brown, it's Apple.

And so she, I was like, score one for Barbara Bull. Wow. You know what I didn't split a couple times. Pop, pop, pop. But she is deeply influential. Like even like we would have spirited conversations about philosophy and maybe growing up Christian and her being a devout atheist, right? And her being able to share her perspective and me share mine or whatnot. And that's find like common ground.

Common ground. Wow. You know, and like, yeah. Wonderful human being. Lover, I need to give her phone call. Thank you for bringing it up. Well, we'll do that for the fan segment. Surprise her

FaceTime We're jumping around a lot So I don't even know where we should go I have something I could backtrack on I thought might be interesting Go please It probably shows up more than just this But for me rewatching the episode

Seeing Justin with Night I don't think I've earned that But you know Night That's always friends Please got you guys So

So that Like just seeing the stage The inside of the sound stage That was where we worked. That was, that's what I remember. So cool to have that on camera. Yeah. Like, in video, like, the crew.

So if anybody's watching that, that's what it was great to shoot. Exactly. That was our set. That's a really good point. So that was like kind of mind-blowing. I was like, oh my gosh, we have this documented almost the exact same way is what... Literally behind the scenes. Literally.

Yeah. Can I insert this as well that I don't think we brought up yet? But there's this funny little thing. they do. They do it in person. And Kevin sort of did it on the phone when Sophie first called to say that her mom had passed away. They kind of like play this game. We're like, I think, okay, he does blah, blah, blah. And they describe something like he's a beer pong playing, blah, blah. It's some sort of like, I don't remember the examples, but like it's some silly, like, end of a story

essentially where they're talking about a man and what he ends up being or doing or how the story sort of ends. Sure. He opens an apple cider store called How Do You Like Them Apples? Exactly. And you're like, oh, it's a joke, but it's also the end of the joke or the end of a story or something. It's clearly an ongoing game that they have, right? And so you're like,

okay, I'm clocking that like, I don't know what this has to do with anything. It made her smile in the moment on the the phone after, you know, she told him the news. Good one. They bring it up again in person while they're eating donuts in the car together. They play this game again. And he takes her to the campsite or the site or the site of where they sort of hung out for this like outdoor party or whatever, the night of the fire, the night that Jack passed away.

He basically like elaborates on the fact that, you know, this is where his childhood ended. essentially. And he's still able, in time, he's still able to come back here and still, you know, like return. Return. He's not afraid of it anymore. Exactly. And that she too will be able to go back to that coffee shop in Brooklyn where she got the news and her world was shattered and she felt like things were never going to be the same again. He's living proof that like it does happen. You can return back to those places, right? That like you think will haunt you forever. Yeah, and you have to. Tell them the flashback.

This is like, tell them the flashback that leads to the inside joke. Oh, that leads to the inside joke. So you realize they leave the campsite, the party, whatever, to go see a movie, right? Yeah, well. Back in the day, yeah. Back the day, Goodwill Hunting is playing in a movie theater. That's right.

And so we go get some, I think we go get donuts. Can ask one question real quick? And then, yeah. This is continuing from something that happened last week. and I mean it in all love, Mandy Moore. Have you seen Goodwill Hunting? Yes, gosh, yes, yes, yes, okay. Good. Good, good, good.

Good, good. It's very important. The entire last episode, I had not seen one reference that was talked about in the episode. It was like, nope. It was like, wild. You guys are lucky that I just recently in the last few years saw Star Wars. Really?

Yeah. You know, that's not that. Is that a real test? for your relationship. It was. Taylor was like, oh. It's like, let's just get this out of the way.

Totally. Yeah. I feel like Goodwill is such a wonderful one that we're used. Because like young men who sawed at a certain age, which is like our age. For sure. For sure. So impressionable.

Yeah. Like central. Yeah. Yeah. That time period specifically, yeah. Yeah. It was the first crack to let us into vulnerability. There you go.

It's not your fault. It's not. Thank you, Sean. It's so good. No, I get it, Sean. It's not your fault. Yeah, no, I understand, Sean. It's not your fault.

Thank you. Go ahead. Continue. All right, Pete. Well, we're watching the movie, and what's, which was actually trippy to me is like, they were just playing some flickering freaking thing. And I was like, what part of the movies is? I don't know, we're going to figure it out later.

I was like, okay. Yeah, just so you know. I guess I'll just be like, yeah, focused. I don't know if anyone thinks that making TV shows in that movie. Exactly. Yeah. You know, it's, yeah. We'll figure it out later.

Look right there and seem in awe. Yeah. It is one of those things, like, just for folks that don't understand, like, oftentimes if you're watching TV or you're watching a movie, like, they'll either put up a blue screen or it'll just be, like, light sort of coming at you. So it looks like you're watching something. So it looks like you're watching something specifically. They come back and post and they put it in there.

Yeah. And so it is one of those things where you're like, all right. Am I laughing? Yeah. Yeah. Let me do something specific rather than in general. Yeah. So I understand. Or if you see people dancing on screen, there's never music.

It's like, there's like a click track. That's right. They may start the music and then you're like, let me remember this big. And action. And the music goes away. Yeah. And then you're just like, Everybody disco.

And it's like eight in the morning and you feel like an idiot. It's 8 a.m. Yeah. Just one of those things to let you know. BTS. All right, sorry, man. Well, this, on that, by the way, that's important, but on that, this one, which was super strange. Milo was like, I know this is weird, dude, but it just

looks good. They were playing like one of those old black and white cartoons like the, like a bicky mouse thing, dancing, literally. So I was just staring at that for that whole scene. Cool. Pretending it was goodwill hunting. It's really, yeah, something like, no, that's exactly. That's exactly. Yeah. And anyways, we're watching Goodwill hunting, not Steve Boat Yeah. The, you know, theater shuts down and the guy comes out and he's like, have, whatever concessions you guys want, I'm sorry to inconvenience. Yeah, the movie's not going to... I'm sorry, was that a thing? So...

Well, listen, just go ahead and have whatever you want. He does pretty much... I know, yeah, yeah. I know, but I'm like, I wish I've had technical... He also mentioned they're at the dollar theater. Yeah. All your money comes from concession. Oh, that's a good point. You're not making money from the movie, guys.

That's a good boy. For a dollar, you should expect the movie to break down halfway through. You know, like, sorry. But he's like, help yourself. So Kevin, Sophie, you're like... you're like, let's eat, let's eat.

So you guys and go, you guys go. We get snacks. We end up back at the, the campsite. And this was the scene that I was nervous about. For me,

watching them like, yeah. She's like throwing stuff in my mouth and stuff. Are you catching it? Yes. Well, actually, I think that they wanted us to miss.

Okay. It's cuter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh, oh, no. Oh, it's getting everything. So young.

So sweet. Oh no You got a little sugar I did that Yeah So funny So you got some crum on your face Or some face in your crumb I think

So what is the You guys come to an agreement Yes sorry I keep It's all good I love that I'm missing you with candy Yeah We come to create

That was cute Thanks We create a pact Right We create a pact That we will never finish Goodwill hunting because we start coming up with these fun, alternate endings

or our own ideas of how it ends, right? So I make a joke about Matt Damon and Ben Affleck's character falling in love and whatever, running off together. That was my favorite one. Yeah. That was progressive for the time. It was for two teenagers in the 90s. But you could see it.

Yeah. They love each other. So that's where we get that from the whole episode. That game. Yeah, we put it all together. It's the motif that started. It was the ending they all wanted. It never saw it.

are coming. So here's the thing then. They wind up saying in the present, like, did you ever wind up seeing the movie? And then, like, no. And so, like... Which is interesting, like, nod to their dedication to each other. Yes. Like, we never finished it. That was a pact

we made. You said we wouldn't. Right. It says a lot. There's a lot. Yeah. Then she says, you also said that you'd be faithful in our marriage. So what the fuck happened there? Yeah, exactly. Priorities are skewer. Yeah. Very skewed. You can hold on to this one. Yeah. More that was us after these words from our sponsors.

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Yeah, right there in the car. both sort of moved by, they're like, oh, this is way better than I actually thought it was going to be, right? Anything we could have come up with. And anything we could have come up with. And then there's just, like, looking at each other. These looks, if looks could kiss, set you on fire. Like, they are looking into each other's souls.

Yeah, yearning. Right? And you're like, is it about to happen? And then she says, I should probably go home now, right? Yeah. And he says, okay, cool. so that he takes her home. And I'm not exactly sure what they say, but she is...

She comes out and gives him his old headshot. Which I had to do a whole photo shoot for, by the way. Yes. Of course. Did you keep any of those? Did you keep some of those? I don't know, actually, if I have that. Yeah, no, I had to do an entire, like, four, three, four-hour photo shoot for that headshot.

Like, full 90s is so funny. And then, of course, I sign it. I'm just, like, laughing away. Yeah, great. And it cracks me. out because my terrible handwriting on this freaking headshot is like a central part of this

is like really dramatic so perfect. It's wonderful. It's one of you. Like their hands are holding and I'm like there's my freaking botched handwriting. Do you still have early headshots? Oh, God, yeah. I have two or three. I'm not sentimental. I try to get rid of them. You don't have, you don't have, you don't have copies anywhere.

I probably have copies. I don't have them for sentimentality. I kept him for my late night appearances. That was where I thought I was going. I should probably hold on a couple of these. Just so we could laugh. If anybody wants to take a look. This is going to be so funny. The whole point is I'll get him to you, Sam.

We'll put them on Instagram. Yeah. Same, same. I got some good permed ones. Before we get to this, well, no, we can get to this part first. Did you ever, hold on, sorry. Did you ever sit in malls and sign stacks of headshots? Yeah, I did.

You did all that, all the meat and greets and the CDs. and the CDs. Oh, yeah. I love it. Sam Goody. It's Mandy Moore, bro. Well, I mean, it was like back when music stores still existed. In the mall.

Right. And you would promote, like, the way an author would promote a book. Correct. Yeah, you'd have book signings. You'd have a song and do a thing. Yeah. Yeah. You do an in-store.

An in-store appearance. That's what they called them. Wow. They'd have, like, the big signage behind you, you'd have the little folding table. Mandy Moore, how do you stay grounded? How did you stay grounded? But did you ever, do you ever feel like you went through a moment in life where you're like, I'm the shit? No.

Like with the frosted tips and everything, like I'm kind of fucking dope. With in sync around. Definitely not during that time. No. No. What do you owe that to? Because I could see another person just sort of walking around like, you know, they're the Shataki. Also, you deserve.

Insecurity? Also, deep-seated insecurity. Kept you on the ground. I'm like, can I land? on that couch? You would have fully deserved to have felt that way. Yeah! And still do.

I don't ever feel like I deserved. Do you know what I mean? I don't think I ever fully deserved to be in that position. So I was just grateful for it. And I'm like, I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize this. Yeah. Including, you know, I mean, it's like, how much time do you have? But I think, like, making myself as small as possible in this life that felt so much

bigger than me and so extraordinary was the way that I coped with. So this is interesting because I remember when you got your star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and I feel like a lot of your speech was about taking space and about sort of owning who you are now. I feel like I'm better at it now than I was as a young person, but it's like that's what you do the work in therapy. And I think it's even easier now being a parent because I'm like, oh, I never want my kids to feel that way. I want them to feel like they can take up all the space in the world and that's still not enough. You know what I mean?

God bless you, man, anymore. Oh, thanks. Listen, we spent six years doing the show. And, like, I think, like, people may have a perception that, like, maybe she did think that she was, like, this person back in the day or whatnot. But Mandy Moore is real and sweet and kind and humble. And I just, like, I was like, I don't know if I could have made it through that period of life and be who you are.

That's very sweet of you, but I think that's what worked about the show, right? That everybody was on a level playing field. There was not one bad apple. There was no one that thought they were better than anyone. There was no one that, like, took advantage of the moment and became an asshole. Like, we all were sort of a family with locked arms throughout this whole experience. And, like, we were grateful as it was all unfolding. We knew how special it was.

And, like, I don't think any of this changed anybody. Yeah. You know? I agree. Totally. But thanks. You're welcome. To the show.

Except for Logan Schroier. I mean, yeah, listen. Logan, that's actually. Actually why we wanted to have you today? This is an intervention. It was kind of bullshit. Go back for your breaches. Miles and Anna come out.

Everybody. The door open. He drops off at home and he says, well, I'll see you next time someone dies. And she says, I'm already looking forward to it. A really great couplet of lines. That's Dan Fogelman writing right there. I got to write them down. Sophie leaves the car and brings back Kev's signed headshot.

that went to Sophie's mom, and I want to say there is a theme that echoes throughout this episode about never settling that it sort of comes from Claire. Yeah. Right? Ironically. Yeah, never settle big guy. Like he, you signed it, never settle to her there. Like, Sophie mentions it in her eulogy for her mom. Like, my mom never settled, right?

And I'm not exactly, I'm curious what everybody thinks about what that means specifically. She says, Keff, thank you for coming. Is Keff, thank you for coming? He looks at her and he whispers, always. And it's just like, all right. It's perfect. It's so, like, audience Brown is like, come on, guys. I was like, I'm sure her fiance is a great guy and everything.

But come on, guys. Yeah, but also, like, sorry to interrupt, but it's like, even if they don't end up together, like, there is something so beautiful that, like, that connection exists and always exists. And it is a great love story. And it's a great love story and it will continue to be. Yeah. It's realistic. Yeah. Sure. This happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe more often than not. Exactly. Then people ending up together. That's why the movie, the movie once. Yeah. It's one of the the greatest love stories ever told ourselves. It's the musical first, wasn't it? No, movie first. Movie first, then the musical. Okay, gotcha. But the, but the, the, the two people in love. Don't end up together.

Don't end up together and are hardly ever together at all even. Right. And it's just this, this energy that this, what if this, this unrequited nature, which we also see another example of their kind of dedication to each other as she's going through her box of memorabilia. Right. Which is right here at the end, I think. Yeah. With the storyline anyways, where this ring that she always wanted that was denied Kevin is still in its box. Sure.

it was not even utilized in the current engagement that she's evolved at. We shot something that didn't make it. Tell us. We shot me in there finding the emerald ring, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, wow. And I look at it, like wanting to earn it and kind of like making it. I might be totally forgetting the exact moment, but I believe it was about me seeing it and deciding to earn it, I think. That's cool. I like that.

Well, because he does go to Sophie's mom's grave, right? He does indeed. And kind of talks about how he's sober, he's steady. And he admits that he never earned the ring. Right. But he wishes he had another crack at it. He thinks he's finally ready, yeah. Yeah.

Justin crushed that. Yeah, it was amazing. Amazing. It's ironic. The stuff that Justin crushes even more than when he's in scenes with other people is when he's just sitting there by himself talking to nobody. The best moments of the series for him. Unbelievable.

And that's saying a lot. He does it quite a bit and just kills it every time. Every time. And also just what Dan delightfully does is like he'll go sort of deep. He'll leave the headshot. He walks away. That's just weird. He goes back for the headshot.

And I was even thinking about something. I was like, really going to leave a headshot? Yeah. Same. Yeah. Not a good luck. I gave this to you once. Give it to you again.

Now you can have it forever, yeah. Have it forever. Okay, we're about to dovetail into part three in a second. But the question that I had, based off of what Kev said when they're at the campfire site, this is the moment where my childhood ended. Does anybody have a moment? Can you look at a moment? That's interesting.

Where you feel as if, oh. Oh, this was the end of childhood. Oh, the end of innocence. Yeah. The exiting of the garden. There you go. The. I don't really have one.

You've been grown for a long time, Mandy, more. Yeah. You've probably, like... You've got to look earlier. That's what I'm saying. You probably feel like, I remember once when I was seven years old. When I was in a stadium. Yeah, no, I don't...

There's no exact moment that I can pinpoint. for me, not and not this way. I mean, there is, I'm sure there are different iterations of it, right? Like, this is a pretty tragic and traumatic one that's sort of like very concretely ended childhood and you have to grow up. Yeah. Did you feel that way when you were, how old were you? Ten. Ten.

When he passed, like, it definitely was, it was something, but I'll tell you, I'll give you a story later on. because I, when you're that young, it's actually my experience has been like, okay, so this is what normal is now. There's a certain sort of resiliency from the very young that I think sort of, it may have been harder if I was a teenager. Sure. To a certain extent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I tell you like a real moment, my mom, who I love, Arlene Brown, I hope you hear this one, and I hope you appreciate this story and how awesome you were in it. My mom was afraid of me getting senior-eyed a second semester senior year. Yeah, yeah. I got into college. Everything was going well. She said, listen, bro, if you don't drop off, if you get all A's second semester, you get $1,000 from Arlene Brown.

I was like, say less. Brown goes in, gets all A's. Mom drops from the $1,000. And she goes to the bank, gets Chris, Chris Pundee's. Chris Pundice, right? And you're like, oh, shit. I'm the man, right? So, and then next week or something like that, she says, listen to me.

She said, you earn this money. I think you're a dude, you absolutely deserve it. She said, I have a couple of bills that I need to pay. And if I could borrow some money from you, I'd appreciate it. And I said, you take it. And she said, no, I said, no, no, no, take it. It's all good. And there was this sort of thing.

My mom been a single mom, you know, from middle. school through high school, what have you, retired school teacher. We still owed money to my high school after I graduated or whatnot. I remember filling out the FAFSA. You guys do FAPSA. Anybody do FASA and stuff? And recognizing, like, we lived off of Social Security, right, didn't have like an income. And in my head, I said, Brown, like, you have to do this. If you, if you make it happen, you have to make it happen, right? You have the security of a home and love and a place of being wanted, right? But the other sort of resources may not be there in the same sort of way. And I think that's when I was like, okay, I do not have the luxury of not getting it

done. Right, right, right, right. That was a pretty big moment. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even know if she she'll probably be heartbreaking for her to hear that but I don't say it to be heartbreak because she she did everything right yeah and I think that was also it I was like no no I'm okay no I can do this but that was that was a moment yeah yeah yeah do you have one sally or Logan I have a story give it to us that's hard I don't know you know my we can edit it out okay well yeah I don't know I'm oh you don't have to say you don't have to tell us no I know but I was it's it's very interesting this is like a great place to talk about something interesting. I held onto this also for a long time.

The this kind of I think what ended is my parents got divorced. My parents got divorced right around doing the show. So I'm like right out of high school. I don't go to like my whole life, my whole dad's side is all University of Michigan people like my grandparents went there. It's practically raised to go there. So I'm like, I'm going to the best college I possibly can. I have like a 4.5 in high school. I'm like still trying to act and like doing all the things, right? Damn. Yeah.

And then book, this is us. I'm like, guess I'm not going to college. I guess I'm doing this. And I can always go back. So that was big. And I'm like,

okay. Yeah. I'm on a salary. I mean, we weren't actually on contract the first season. But as that goes, I feel like I just grew up super fast. Yeah.

You're talking to a CPA. You're talking about figuring out this stuff. And then my parents get divorced. And I'm just, and I'm the oldest. three. So I'm just on my own in an apartment in North Hollywood with my friends. And my family is just kind of like back over there. And what's really crazy actually is I found out that they were actually getting divorced, like actually getting divorced when we shot the scene at the diner.

When Milo, I'm not kidding. When Milo... Logan. Yes, I know. It was crazy. So... Wait, wait. When Milo comes in. And you guys are supposed to be separated. Yeah. Yeah, that was when I found out. Oh, Logan. I'm so sorry.

That's crazy to be dealing with, like, the real-life information mirroring what's happening on the show is just beyond. Yeah, I was like, I can't believe this stuff happens in real life. I was like, what's going on? It's another moment where the show just spookily mirrors our real life. Yeah. We've talked about it a lot on the podcast. It happens.

for us too on the show but like that's so you know milo comes in and it's like i think my line is are you guys getting divorced yes that's yes yeah and so there's so much in that bro yeah and i'm the only one i was like why couldn't a freaking randall asked the question like why does kevin have to ask gosh oh my god yeah and you know my mom was on said too because it was like it was earlier on so she's like in village i'm like this is so crazy this is so insane oh logan um So that's a little window into the life of an actor, you know. Young man. That's a lot to.

I think you win. That's it. Yeah, that's a. That's a. Yeah. You're like, I don't want to win this. I don't want to win this one. Yeah, this wasn't a.

Let's see if Sally, Sully, you want to try to beat us? No, I think that's a good place to end it. It's a good place to, uh. Let's do it. So, okay. Um, Kev is on the way to the airport and he says to his sister. So, yeah, can I come by and see Jack? Like, I just kind of need to decompress a little bit.

He's like, you know, I'm just going to come over. I'll see you when I get there. Kev gets to back to L.A. So we know he's in L.A. now. He was in Pittsburgh. Now he's in L.A. Who opens the door, everybody? Madison.

Madison opens the door. That's right. She's dog sitting for Katovi. Kate's at the retreat. Yeah. The family retreat for visually impaired families. And, yeah, Toby's working. So he comes, she's like,

I'm making coffee or tea or something. He's like, yeah, it takes some too long. So you're sitting down having a combo. What's going on with you, Madison's? Like, dude, this is like the fifth relationship in a row that is just sort of going quits. Dude, dumped me, what have you. And he's-

I'm always the one getting left. Oh, yeah, and Kev says like, oh, you know, I've never been dumped before. She's like, oh, that makes me feel good. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, no, to tell someone that was just dumped. And he basically says, like, no,

I've never stuck around long enough to get dumped. Like, anytime I feel like it's not right, like I'm usually the person to cut and run. Running away, yeah. And so he says, you're like, I wouldn't look at it as if you're the person who's always getting dumped.

I would say that you're the person who's always willing to stick around to fight, right? Yeah. And you shouldn't lose that. That's, to reframe it that way. To reframe it that way. And this is the first substantive conversation between Madison and Kevin, right?

Yeah, and he drops a beauty. He gives us something nice, right? really nice thing to offer somebody of that perspective. And then... We flashed to Randall, right? Like, calling. Now we're back in our flow of the three scenes, right? Yes.

We also teased the, like, whoa, intruder in Randall's... Like, so we saw a taste of that earlier. Yeah, we saw the intruder earlier, and then this is... And they had the conversation earlier, like Kevin's side of the conversation between him and Randall. And then now, Randall's calling him being like, you know what, man, I actually am not. okay like i need somebody he's like yeah man you know i need to talk to and i think kate's going through some stuff too she just kind of like patch her in yeah so all three of them are talking to each other and uh it's a sad three it's a sad three i don't know if you pump on the you know i don't

think you do a chest chest um sad three um but they i think whose idea is it to go to the cab is it mine is it keves is it somebody's idea one of the two of us yeah had the idea to go to the cab in case like, you know what, that's not a bad idea. I think, is it, Randall says something about nature, and then Kevin says, maybe, or I don't know. It's one of the two of us. Kevin says, I don't have anything else to do. One of the two of us.

I just fly around and go see everybody. But as they're doing that, we do see that it is Madison in bed. Yeah. It is. Indeed. It is Madison in bed. Now, see, you know what I, what's tough about it that I want to know, because I know too much,

I wonder what it's like for the audience the first time they see. Madison in bed. Yeah. Like, I can't remember that feeling of like... I don't remember what social media had to say about that. I don't remember either, other than probably people being like, oh, Kevin. You know what I'm saying? Like, after seeing a whole episode of connection between...

Him and Sophie. You know what I'm saying? And then he just goes and sleeps with like... But you know what that... The first person he can't. And that's... That happens a lot. Sure.

Like when you can't be with the person that you... There's a substitute. Sure. And that happens a lot. Especially to Kevin. Especially to Kevin, right? And then we sort of flash back to the same day of Rebecca's birthday dinner. Yeah.

And you're coming over, right, for the birthday dinner. And Kate calls, you're coming in. And I've just gotten off the phone with Kate. And I'm like, I think there's something wrong with Kate. Like, we need to go get Kate. And without even questioning what's going on, you're like, let's go get her. Yes. And I was just remembering.

I was like remembering that it was really complicated to film and now I think I remember and it was because we had to split it up if I remember correctly it wasn't like we could have one director and shoot the full scene of that because it appeared in separate episodes so we had to on one day we had to stop it short and then we had to like pick up strangely and it was just awkward angles

because like exactly the different angle that would be seen in Kate's episode so we had to wait for Justin to not yeah that's what I was trying to to allude to earlier and I didn't say it well. It was just like, these scenes are always so complicated, especially when it's not all the same director. I've had experiences now on Paradise where like it feels, but when both directors are able to be there at the same time

or all three directors and they're like, all right, well, this is what coverage I need, this is the coverage of it. So that it doesn't feel so disjointed. Yes, ideally that's how it would work. He's hard to say. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's clear that Dan, there's a reason why M. Night Shyamalan is in. Yeah, Dan's TV show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Dan, Dan loves him. Dan Knight Shyamalan, man. Come on, what we're talking about? He loves a flip it and reverse it. The last thing is we put the young man to bed and we get the lesson about like sometimes, you know, the things that you love, you lose more, but you'll find something else to love, puts him to bed, and then we see Kate comes to see, Daddy's like, Dad, we have a problem. Not on sleepy. We have a problem.

We have a problem. And, gang, that's where we leave off. And then we'll pick up with three, which is tough for Brown to watch. It's a tough one. That is a real tough one. I don't know if you got to three. But three is Kate's part of the story. And real quick, just so you can chime in with Mark.

How did you, what's my name is Austin? Austin Abrams. How'd you like working with Austin? He's great. I wanted to kill him. Yeah. Yeah. I seriously.

I want to kill him. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, this kid. He is so in the pocket. He's so good. He's actually so good that I just want him to stop breathing. It's like, how did this real person get on this TV show?

What's this guy doing with all these actors? He's so in the pocket. He's great. But that's where we leave off with Kevin and that love story. And now we're wondering, listen, because here's the thing. Is Madison pregnant? We don't know. Exactly.

It just could have been a one-night stand. Could he go back to Pittsburgh? And Sophie still could be the one. The only person we know it's not is Zoe because the kid in the future is not black. That's right. Okay. Thank you for spelling that out. It's got to be a white woman.

That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's got to be. Because we have three white women now. In the mix? Cassidy. Cassidy. Oh, Cassidy is still in the mix? Madison.

Right. Could be anyone. And we deal with that triumvirate for. while. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. All the way up until the wedding. Up until the wedding. So it's good stuff. I mean, I'm enjoying these shows. I'm enjoying talking about these shows with you. I'm enjoying having Logan here. I think so much, I think for the fan segment, we should just talk to Logan. Yeah, I agree. Ask the big guy some questions. Is that okay with you? A little Q&A with you. Yeah. All right. So stay tuned. We'll be back with our favorite segment in the show.

Our fan segment. Boom. Now it's time for our favorite segment, our fan segment. And we asked, listen. Oh, yep, and I jumped in. And now, today we have a Q&A with Logan Schroier. Do you want to do the part, Sterling? Now it's time for our favorite, favorite segment, our smoothest segment of them all, our fan segment. And today we have a Q&A with our good man, Logan.

We asked listeners to send in this quag, oh, crap. It is our smoothest segment. We asked listeners to sit in their questions for you, Logan. Are you ready to hear them? I'm ready. Let's do it with our first question. Here we go. What is that funny.

First question is from it's Hannah Klein. And the question is, if you could have had an entire episode dedicated to your character, teenage version, what would the story look like what aspects do you wish could have been explored more interesting question you know what I really wish we could have seen let's hear it what is Kevin and Sophie

getting married oh interesting that would have been a good episode like what that day would have been in New York yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean that would have been great I mean I tell the story about like randomly deciding to propose the telling of the story is epic yeah but to have seen it

would also be epic Dan starts the episode in a Polaroid factory, and we see how Polaroid film is made. And so, where's this Polaroid film going? Oh, it's being purchased by a young man on his wedding day. Exactly. In a Dwayne Reed. That's a really good pitch.

That's a really good pitch. Total photo of me. Yeah. I like that, too. That's a good one. What's the next one? From Luna Lotefi. This is my favorite part of the fans saying it to us where we try to decode. On the spot, we decode social handles.

I think it's actually Lunal Outfe. Loodle Outfeed. If the Teen Big Three had their own spinoff, what do you think it would have been called? Teen Big Three is. You know, I'm not good, but the name is probably the big three. Probably the Big Three, yeah. Yeah, that's probably what it would have called.

It would have been called the Big Three is us. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Or the Big Three-ish, and then we could have... Oh, the Big Three-ish, and then we have Kenya, can you come in and do a couple episodes? Absolutely. There you go.

There you go. Oh, this is at Lynn Standridge 299. She writes in a lot. I follow, Lynn. What is your favorite Kevin? and Sophie moment. Ah, I like that. That's a really good question.

I like when you carry her over the threshold. It's really charming. And her legs are the door like three or four days. As you would. That feels real. I wish they would have left that in. That's even better. Terrible. Yeah, I did. Whack. She came out with a fractured ankle.

Is that your favorite? Remind me young lady's name? Because I only got a chance to meet her like once or twice. She's wonderful. Yeah, she is. Very good. Very sweet, too. Like, the encounters that I had with her, a really lovely human being. I can tell you a little, I don't know if...

No. Endotes are relevant. That's all we're here for. This is so cool, and to give her props. Yeah. This was so cool, because I hadn't been through a lot of chem reads being already cast and seeing the casting process. Yeah.

So when she came in, she was maybe the third or fourth person, and there was a scene that they had written that was fake about, like, Kevin and Sophie doing homework. and I, like, don't want to do homework. I want to, like, make out with her or whatever it was. And so that's kind of awkward a little bit. You don't know people. And so she did this thing, there's this thing where she kind of, like, teases him a little bit

where she, like, gets, she, like, leans into it and then says no kind of a thing. And she actually, I think, like, took the pencil and got really close to me and, like, did a whole thing. Every single girl after her got the same direction. Oh, it's like they saw something they liked her, like, give them. that direction. She did, she like actually committed to what it was and did a blocking thing in every person that came in after. And I was like, well, she's probably got it. The uncomfortable part was it was you telling each of them to do that. Yeah. It's so weird how they all got that same direction. From me. You know what the first girl did? That was really great.

Do you know what? Do you know what kind of balls that would take? She kind of got really close to my face and kind of. Tap to me with the pencil. Now give me a little tip tap. Give me a little tip on the nose. Yeah. Is this a lot? Is this a little. awkward? No. Did you know? Did you know it was going to be her? I wanted it to be her.

Did they ask you? I think they did it at the end. They asked me about Beth. I heard you that and I was like, oh, please, I don't want to take a job away from a sister. Y'all helped me out. You guys both had your jobs. You guys both had your jobs. Yeah.

Nice to be in the kind of audition room already having the part though, huh? Pretty amazing. Yeah. But also a lot of pressure. It's a lot, yeah. It's less pressure than the person who's off. And the person who's auditioning. It's a different kind of pressure

because you don't want to mess it up for somebody? For sure. You want to be like locked in? But then you also realize when you don't get cast, it is so not personal. Tell them. Because everyone that comes in, first of all, the whole room was complimentary

after each person leaves. Like, wow, that was great. Like there's always something redeeming about what that person, the energy they bring to the character. And I've realized in those few moments that I have been on the other side, it's like, oh, wow, it is so not personal.

It's not, it is just like, it's instinctively, when somebody comes in the room, you're like, that's not it. Or I think that's it. Like, it's sometimes like nothing more than that. When I've been asked my opinion on auditioning and things like this, the way that I have to perceive it and the way that really helps me perceive it is that every job I get has everything to do with me and every job I don't get has nothing to do with me. Yeah. If I'm prepared. I hear you. being the thing.

If I prepared for this audition, then if I get it, it's all because I have succeeded. On your end, yeah. And if I do not get it, that means someone else succeeded. It has nothing to do with a failure. No failing of yours, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That is the best way of looking at it.

It's the truth. Agreed, agreed. Next. Next query. There's an email from Jasmine now. What was it like when you first worked? Oh, we were just talking about. Was it like when you first worked with Amanda Leighton? Layton?

Yeah, Leighton, I think. Layton. We answered. Yeah, we did, we did. Okay, what's next? Enzo... L-C-V-N. Le-C-V-N-E-L-C-V-N-E-L-C-V-N-E-L-Given.

After seeing Kevin and Sophie go through so many different stages, were you personally happy that the show chose to bring them full circle? Yeah, I think the receipts would show I literally put, like, hashtag Team Sophie on some posts back in the day, so I was pretty like... You were invested. It's got to be Zofi.

Yeah, it's got to be. It's got to be. It's got to be. We all, we've shown our cards on this line. And sorry to interject another anecdote, but this is kind of funny. So that cast that I'm wearing, it's the 90s plaster cast, which maybe is a separate anecdote, you know, it took like six hours of doing those casts on me because they take... Six hours? They take so long to dry because they're the old plaster freaking cast.

Wait, that thing is a real cast? It is, but they... They put me in a room, and they put a cast on me, and then they let it dry, and they cut it off, and then we do it two more times. And then we did it again because they deteriorate. Sure. I guess so. I thought it was a prop. I thought it was something that you could like cut in the back and then sort of like open-cooked.

But it's a real, it's a real cast that they put on me that they cut in the back. Yes. And there's duct tape all on my leg hair that gets ripped off. But the point is when we put them on. This wasn't even the story. To like make them. To make them. I did.

Yeah. To make them. Because of course they're going to do doubles. Totally, dude. But they would actually, on the day, come on and off. On the day, they come on off. And so we did a lot of stuff at Griffith Park right here. And I wear brown contacts, okay?

Yeah. Which are, like, wearing sunglasses. And I have this cast that you can't really put the pressure on it because it'll bust out on the back. Sure. And I've got crutches. So I'm, like, blind and lily and crippled. And so wherever our cast chairs are, I can't see anything.

Poor guy. Every time we shot. I'll just stay here. Yeah, I'm just going to stand. On this show the whole time, anytime it's dark, I can't see anything. I can only see the lights on set because I'm wearing sunglasses at night.

Yeah. So, like, I was hobbling around tripping on the cables. Oh, you did great because you can't even tell. You killed that. Look, listen, acting with some sort of impairment when you're not supposed to be impaired, that's tough. Yeah. Oh, dude.

Thank you. who else we got what's next this from jennifer h what was your most memorable or fun scene to shoot and why i love this shot this is a hilarious picture um that's a great picture most memorable or fun there are a lot i think um there was a really fun day when we were shooting one of maybe like our fourth thanksgiving dinner okay uh and john john was committed to just making everybody laugh i guess and on someone else's coverage. I don't know if you remember this. There was like salad dressing or something,

like a bowl of it. And he just started drinking it off camera. And it was like bloop-loop-moop-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-b. And we just, it was always something with the food on the thing, like Niles ate raw turkey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, turkey, chicken, one of the... I'm sure it was Cornish. The Cornish, that's what it was.

The only bird we have on the show. It was bad. Yeah, no, that was just so much fun. And of course, probably everybody else was stressed out trying to get, like, coverage of nine people at a table. But we were just having a great time. God bless Gwertes. He brings levity all the time. Go on, Jennifer.

Email from Ashley B., what do you miss most from your time on the show? I mean, I really miss the people, you know. And it's like so special. it's the same thing I think probably with sports to be on a team doing a thing in process and to just get all of this time with people that you become close to and the memories you're making when it's hard and when it's fun and I guess maybe another thing just to add to that that like surprised me when watching the episode back I so I don't know if you guys experienced this I so badly wanted to be back in the world. I was like, oh my gosh, I miss Sophie. I miss, like, Pittsburgh. I miss the house. Like, I mean, I don't know. There's a part of me that really still just wants to dive back in because it's so fun and amazing. Why do you think we're doing this podcast? Yeah. Exactly. I think we want to swim in these waters. For me, it's the paychecks. You're happy with yours? No, I miss my.

Hopefully, I miss most about the show. He misses that most from his time on the water. the show. The people were great. You are right. Sure, they're fine. Secondary, though, is what you're saying. They're secondary to the paycheck. Yeah, well, yes.

I'm all about that money. I'm not about it. Cream, baby. Cash moves, everything around selling. Oh, good. Good. Is that it? That's it. That's a great last question.

This has been a great time. Like, I'm always, Logan, you've always been this dude who's just been at such an open heart, such a such a kind, generous, and just willing and wanting to, like, learn. Yeah, I was going to say there's such a deep curiosity. Yeah. Like, you were always one to be on set when you weren't working, shadowing the camera department, shadowing the director, like, just you were, you really took advantage of the time on the show

to, like, absorb everything, like, the apparatus of the show around you. And that was always so admirable, you know, as a young person to not just be like, cool, I'm not working, I'm not working, I'm not, to sleep in, like, you are always around. Like, we have zero scenes together. But I can remember several conversations where you just come to, like, hey, can we talk? I'm like, yeah, come on, bro. And we just sit and, like, chop it up. And I was just like, wow, this dude, that's young man has something good.

He's special. Yeah. Oh, thank you. You're dope, man. Yeah, you are. And, like, here's the thing about, like, you play, the times in which Kevin Randall have, like, tension in the past, you're a delightful dude. Like you were a delightful and like which is real acting because you're the sweetest kid.

Yeah. Thank you. Totally. We always say that we're like when Logan's a douchebag. It's like, it's really, it really resonates even more because you're like, exactly. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. Well done. Thank you guys. Yeah. Thank you for all of your questions. If you would like to send us a question or a comment about the show or a story, you can email us at that was us pod at gmail.com. And we also have, we have a new voicemail situation. It's not still pipe. It's speak pipe. It's speak pipe. Thank you.

You go to www. That's WorldwideWeb. That's speakpipe.com slash that was us. You can leave us a message there. It's our emotional support hotline. If you want to leave one for Logan, we'll make sure he gets it. Please send me. Yeah.

I'll send it to you. I love that you included the WWW. Worldwide web. And not the HTT. HDP. HLEN slash slash. Yeah. If you're going to the hot two tips post script colon slash-slash-worldwideweb.

That was us. That's where you can leave us a message. Logan, thank you once again for joining us. Thank you. You get a chance. Thank you. Look in that camera, big dog. Tell them the name of this podcast, please, and thank you.

Give him a sultry look and just be like, hey, baby, that was us. That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions, music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da-da-da-da-dum, da-da-dum, that was us.