That Was Us - Marc "Loves" Kate | "A Hell of a Week: Part Three" (413) with Hannah Zeile (Teen Kate)

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 13: A Hell of a Week: Part Three, and you guessed it...the amazing Hannah Zeile joins us in studio to chat about teen Kate's storyline in the last episode of this trilogy! As Kate heads to a retreat for parents of visually-impaired children and Toby stays behind, the fate of their marriage weighs on her mind. Rebecca joins Kate and has a heart-to-heart about her diagnosis, and through flashbacks, we see teen Kate navigating a toxic relationship with Marc. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Buy four cartons and get the fifth free, at https://davidprotein.com/thatwasus You can also find David on Amazon and at local retailers—just use the store locator on their website. Humans aren’t perfect, but David is. - Brought to you by Bombas, One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item Donated Head over to https://Bombas.com and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:19:42 Fan Segment 01:34:50 Outro Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season four, episode 13, a hell of a week, part three. This time, the focus is on Kate. As she heads to a retreat for parents of visually impaired children, and Toby stays behind the fate of her marriage weighs on her mind. Through flashbacks, we see younger Kate navigating a toxic relationship. relationship with Mart. Ladies and gentlemen, first of all, it's good to see you all. Good to see you too.

Always a pleasure to talk a little about with us, but we have a special guest here with us today who just read that intro, marvellously. Miss Hannah Zeal is in the house. Hi, everyone. How you doing, sister? I'm doing good. I'm so excited to be. It was fun doing it over the Zoom, but I feel so excited to be in person.

We need the energy. We need the energy. And also, let me tell you guys how this young lady came into the room. Oh, yeah. She's stunting. Yeah. eyebrows, freshly done? On point.

Okay. Show them the nails, girl. Point to look at your camera. Come on now. Yeah, yeah. She's got her nails. We got the Louis Vuitton tennis shoes on back there. She's got the Laboo.

They got a loboobo on the Prada bag, baby. Yeah. She came to play. She was like, yeah, I'm on camera. Yeah. This is how I roll. I didn't come to play today. You look good.

Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for talking a little. This is us with us. And before we get into the granular of the episode, I'm curious, just like in terms of your reminiscing, general thoughts on the reminiscing of this episode, what came to mind immediately, with thoughts, feelings, etc. Yeah, I thought it was really fun to, like, it's such a different perspective to watch it, like, removed from it than, like, because I used to go every Tuesday and watch with my mom. That was, like, our tradition. But it was still so fresh, so it was fun to, like, go back and rewatch and have new perspective on it.

Oh, yeah. This one was so special to me because I got to work with Justin Hartley when he directed it. Yes. And it was so fun. I felt the same way when you directed Chris. It's like obviously we spent a lot of time altogether, but like I didn't get to work with a lot of people because of all the time jumping.

So that was the first thing I remember was like how special it was to get to work with Justin and how cool it is to have someone that's like so involved in the making of the show. So he was, he knew exactly what direction to give, what to say like from an actor's perspective, but also someone that cares so much about the show because he's on it. Totally. We've commented several times about how astute he is at the, what's the, he's very concise in his direction.

And you and I noticed like he'll come in and he'll figure out like not the direction to give, but just the right question to ask. Exactly. An actor. Like, hey, what would it be like if Blank was happening right now? I agree. And then just leave it.

Right. Just leave it. Fall back into the disclaim. He also, I feel like he brought a lot of levity filming this episode because obviously the whole storyline with Mark was very heavy. Yeah. And so. Yeah.

I thought it was hilarious. He did not. Sterling has been beside himself for all of these. Just real quick, really, like, I believe Austin. I never got a chance to talk to Austin on set. So I only saw him in performance. Only as Mark. I hate him.

Yeah. From the get guy. I hate him so much. And I need, so I'm going to need you to balance me out and tell me good things about Austin, because I hate Mark. It's funny, because that's what, I remember having a conversation with him saying, like, that's just attesting to how great of an actor you are because everybody hates you and thinks you are evil.

And I'm like, you're just doing your job so well. He's, like, phenomenally talented. Last episode we're saying it feels like they got some scumbag to come work with all these actors. Yeah, like he's not an actor. He's just like a douchebag. And he just embodies, because he was coming, like, I remember when I heard who had booked the role, I was looking in.

And he had just come off like Euphoria, where he was playing the polar opposite. Totally opposite character. Like, really sweet, like trying to get the girl, but she's not interested. And then he came rolled into set, like, in character, greasy hair, just being an asshole. I'm like, this guy really can transform, but it's because he's unbelievably talented. Yeah. He's a quick question. Euphoria?

No. Got it. Okay. There's so much I haven't seen Hannah. He just like to razz me about it. Is that like an ongoing? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. It's become one of my favorite features. Did you watch you? Have you seen Euphoria? No. Okay. He's with you.

Okay, he's with you this time. I'll say this about Euphoria. It's hard for parents. I mean, there's a lot we've missed period. Sure. Off television in the last five years. Yeah, correct. Don't have the bandwidth.

Fair enough. Completely fair enough. Okay. Justin was great in the episode. Austin is a good guy. Great to hear it. And a wonderful actor. We can all attest to that.

We're coming for you, Austin. Yeah, we haven't get him. We got a nail him. They're coming in here. Because next week is, yeah, anyway. Yeah. All right. So, let's start.

We have young Kate comes in from the last episode, and she's like, we have a problem. We see Jack and Kate together. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. She wants a mommy story. Everybody loves a good mommy story. Yeah. Mommy's knocked out on cough medicine.

Yeah. For three episodes now. For three episodes. Some strong... That's a long time. That's a long time. Strong tusset. Did you get a little vacation in during these episodes?

Where'd you go? What were you doing now? I was in this episode. She was in the episode. A lot. A lot. A lot. I was in prosthetics in a fucking pool.

Oh, that's right. That's right. Isn't that great... Sorry, and we'll get to it soon. The logistics of getting in the pool and be like, I can't get any of the shit wet. Yeah. It's just like, what did you say? The tip of your bob.

It's like a tip of your bob. was, like, resting on the top, and that was it. And I just remember Michael in the hair department, like, don't get the wig wet. Right. And you standing there being like, this swimming is so fun. Isn't swimming nice? Everybody does it, right? I mean, it was also raining.

Was it? Oh, yeah. Oh, great. So the wig was all. It was misting, I should say. Okay. But you could see, there were heavier drops on the pool that they had to cut around for sure in editing. But still, like, the thought of the wig getting wet, the makeup getting wet, like all of it was.

And it was. We were in Palace Verdez. What's the name of the resort again? Teranea. Teranea. You've been there? It's great. It is.

Get the kids, too. Okay. Take the whole family. Yeah. It is like being on a European coast. Yeah, it's beautiful. You feel like you're an Italian, on an Italian coastline somewhere. And we need to go to Tehranaia.

It's gorgeous. But yeah, I was freezing. It was December right before a holiday break. Lord have mercy. And we were like outside shooting. In the middle of the night. It was a lot. Anyway, we'll get that.

Cold plunge. Cold plunge. This is good for the system. Anyway, what's a mommy story. He gets her to tell him a story, right? And she starts telling her story. And she's called dad do jujitsu. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, well, let's flip it like that, right? So she pictures a hero. And the hero's a girl in the forest, and she meets a prince. And she's the hero. She's the girl in the forest. And the prince is her dad, is Jack, who helps her find. a surprise, right? Do we stick with the whole dream or do you want to go back and forth? We can just stick with this, right? Isabella is so cute. She's adorable. She's adorable. Okay, so wait, hon. I have Jack and Kate.

The little girl and Prince see flowers. And Jack says, are they poisonous? She's like, no, daddy, I like the flowers. And then Jack says, well, this says things that you like can be bad for you. So I think he's like, I have to like, like, like how the stories intertwine is really good because it's like, oh, that's an interesting setup. Like, yeah, I like flowers too.

And he's like, well, you know, everything that you like is always good for you. Right. Right. And remember that when you turn 19 or whatever it is. Yeah. Take me with you. How old are you in the, in your timeline?

19. Like first year college, right? Yeah. Would have been in college. Would have gone to college. Anyway, we won't even get into all that line now. We go back to the story with Jack and Kate and they come upon a dark cave

dripping with water. So it's very interesting out of context. Because it informs water that we see later on in the show. Then Jack and Kate, the prince disappears and she enters the cave by herself. And then she's like, Dad, do you remember the surprise? You know what I'm looking to?

to find, so Jack falls asleep on the story time. And she said, do you follow a supermore story? It turns out when the little girl goes into the cave and she comes out on the other side, but she was looking for the whole time. It was her mommy. Yeah. Don't think that didn't make me cry.

I was like, you know. It is. It hits different now. It hits different. I'm sure, because yeah, right, you got kids. You got three of them. Especially is it different now with a daughter? Yes, specifically, yeah.

Totally. And just like thinking about Kate and Rebecca's complicated relationship, thinking about my own relationship with my mom, which is always the easiest, and just, like, you know, forecasting. Like, what are the turbulent waters I'm going to swim in with Lou? And, like, how's that all going to unfold? Right. Yeah, it's interesting. That is interesting.

Yeah. But you're right. It is out of context. It's a little strange. That's all I was asking you if we should do that. But the last part of that storyline just to finish it off is Jack puts her to sleep. He gets in bed with his wife. And I have a question of you guys because he says a line.

to Rebecca, like his last line before there, and you see it, you hear it as she's driving to the cabin. Does anybody know what the last thing is that he says? You couldn't understand it? I couldn't understand it, and it felt like it was important because the next cut is you driving

to the cabin in the past. So if anybody has, like, he whispered something as he gets in bed. One night, you're the real hero. That's what it is. You're the real hero. Because then we'll see what happens in the next episode as we're galvanizing to head to the cabin. to check on you, right?

So that's what happens then. Yep. What's the next one you guys want to do? Look, I'm putting my phone down. How about Toby and Kate? Let's do it. Yeah. Oh, boy.

Toby and Kate, present day. Yeah, man. Things fall apart. Let's talk about the energy that young Sullivan has to bring into this. Because, like, you, there are times in which, as an actor, Hannah, you get to do it from time to time. Randall gets to do it from time to time where you are tasked with being the agitator. And not that you're like sort of like playing agitated, like directly, but you know, like friction has to come from somewhere. It's not a drama without some sort of, you know, conflict or what have you.

When you are tasked with being the person that's sort of driving the conflict, whether it's you with your mom back in the day and sort of things like how do you have any feelings about it one way or the others, like this is my job. This is what I'm supposed to do. Talk to me about that. Yeah, I mean, as we get into the storylines with you and your brothers, I mean, there's a lot of that going on. Yeah. Right. That was for you. Oh, because right now we're talking about Cotoby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm just trying to include the guest. We'll come back to the guest. Like, do you find it challenging in this moment? Because when I watch it, it's like, I do understand both perspectives. I do want Toby, obviously, like, get it together, man, like shake it off. Be there for your family. Prioritize them over work. But I do understand, as we alluded to in the last episode, like, there is.

grief and he's very much allowed that. Do you know what I mean? Like the expectation you have going into parenthood and the reality not matching that. And specifically in the case of this family, what you're sort of grieving, not being able to watch Rick and Morty, not being able to watch, you know, like sharing Star Wars, sharing football games, like the things that really matter to you, not being able to share that with your child is something to. Yeah. I think it's, I think the entirety of this storyline or this transition in their relationship is about this stage in a grown person's life where you have to begin to hold the duality of everything at the same time. I see it a lot in my friends as, I think it's what creates midlife crisis for people.

I see it happening a lot now as my friends hit 40 is where you have these moments in life that are full of grief and full of joy. And how do you pay them? both attention. We've talked about it a lot. I mean, that's what the show for me is about, is learning how to do that. And Toby has a hard time doing that because he gets stuck in the grief. In one or the other, yeah. He gets, yeah, or in the mania or the humor or the, whatever it is, but to be able to hold both and honor both and navigate them in any kind of healthy way is tricky. The other part about this relationship is, is, and even for me, I get frustrated in my own life, with myself and with others,

where I'm like, yeah, your feelings are valid. Also, get over it. But please, feel the way you want to feel. But you know how you should, right? You know what you should be feeling, right? But no, please. I honor your feeling. You know what I mean?

Like, and round and round we go. And it's like, come on. Like, I get Kate being like, I get it, bro. He has a hard time seeing things. Yeah, just come to this camp as a family. Yeah, get your head out of your ass and join the family. So oftentimes, you know, the, like you said, there has to be conflict for there to be drama. Yeah.

And a perfect conflict is relationship. And so this husband and wife are essentially two debate team members who have taken up opposite sides of this emotional debate. And here's how it plays out. And we find them in bed. and Toby's on the computer and he is smiling. Yes, because in the last episode, we've discovered that Baby Jack has a little bit of vision. That's right.

He can see these lights. Shadows and lights, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now Toby's got something to hold on to. He's trying to swing back to the joyful side of the belief. And it's Cades turned to be like... To rain on the parade. Yeah, okay. But also, yeah, don't get too excited, Toby.

Yeah. Because the person you're reading about this article online that's giving you hope is... Was it a hereditary situation? Yeah, it's hereditary. And Toby is essentially like, would you just... Let me have this. I'm trying to do what you asked me to do, which is get happy. Come on, get happy.

Yeah. So let me just be here for a second. Sure. Rachel and I have this conflict all the time. It's legitimate. Because Rachel is pragmatic and she thinks far into the future. And I'm like, now, like, trying to, like, live fully in this moment. And we can struggle with that in our own life.

I don't know if anybody. I don't know if that's relatable. Anybody else? It is relatable. Sterling, what are you not saying? You know what? I was like, yeah, I wasn't thinking about the burden myself. I was actually thinking about, like, my mom.

comes ALS. And, you know, it's interesting because people come in and be like, well, have you guys tried this? And, you know, I've heard this, you know, there's a procedure that they're doing now that does that, you know, and I'm like, oh, man, that's just something worth looking into. And then there's also the sort of like, you know, accepting what is in front of you? And I sort of like, and I've had this conversation with a friend of mine recently in life. And maybe it's midlife as well. What is the difference between acceptance and resignation? And how do you tell the difference between the two? Because sometimes you feel like, you're giving up. And then sometimes you feel like, okay, I'm accepting what it is. And like it's a, it can be confusing sometimes. Truly. It's, it's that serenity prayer, right? Yeah. The courage to change the things I can and.

And the wisdom to know the difference. Right. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. And the wisdom to know the difference is the hardest part. Yeah. It's like, should I be mustering my courage to try and change this? Is it changeable?

Yeah. Or should I be in acceptance? And if you can't figure out the wisdom of the two, then it leads to a lot of guilt or a lot of shame or a lot of confusion. It's hard. It's hard to watch Kate and Toby at this juncture, too, because they are just on two very different pages. Very different pages.

And you're like, I don't know how this shifts. And I feel like this divide is only further solidified once. Kate is packing for the retreat, Toby is on his phone, he's clearly frazzled, he's busy with work and he kind of says as much, like, I'm missing a lot like going on this retreat. And she's just sort of like, do you not want to go? And he's like, no, I'm just, I'm busy. I have a lot of, you know, I have a lot of my plate right now. And she basically answers a phone call from her mom and is like, yeah, Toby's, I don't think Toby's actually going to be able to go. And he's protesting. And she's like, just stop. And then she, more or less, invites her mom. Yep. Her mom is more than happy to jump at the opportunity to spend some time with Jack and Kate. She's got a brand new notepad and pen.

She's got a brand new notepad and pen. She loves to take notes. Can I say some real quick. Just going back to that. So she lets Toby off the hook. But before so, Gregory comes by and drops off a gift. Oh, as they're getting ready to go on the retreat. As they're getting ready to go on the retreat.

A little beeper ball? Yeah. And there's something really lovely about how easy Toby goes and kisses his big. baby boy, right? I love you, et cetera. And then there's the bit of hesitation before going to kiss his wife. Yeah. And like, I was just like, you're clocking all of these things, right? And well done. Well done. Totally because it's not until they get to the retreat and Kate starts talking to her mom, which we'll get to about her relationship with Toby, that I realize like, oh, they're really like truly not in a good place. Yeah. Like there's talk on the table. And

of like, if things don't work out, I'm like, whoa, I don't even remember. I mean, vaguely, as I'm watching it, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm reminded of that, but it took watching it to remember, like, yeah, hypothermic. When you're hypothermic and in prosthetics. But it's, yeah, it's just not, it's so tense and so uncomfortable. It's a tough time, you know, watching my brother and sister going through tough times, right? Right. More that was us.

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and the things that they're going to be able to do. And the room is by the saltwater pool. Like, it's a, this is a fancy thing that they're out. She's like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to get together. I bet we should go sing. Some karaoke. And she's like, what's the name of that song that Alana's more said used to sing?

I love the irony of not being able to remember. Ironic. Ironic. You know? Really good. Really good. Really good humor. We have good writers.

They're good at this stuff, writing shows and stuff. Kate and Rebecca at the retreat. Do you think Alanis would come to our live show? Oh, yeah. Sure. Do you know Alanis? I do not. Okay.

Do you know Alanis? She retweeted a thing of Kate one time when it was, the episode was focused on. On this episode? No, it was one of the ones in the record shop. I don't know if this one specific. Oh, it's when Jack picks up Kate and lets her ditch school. Yeah, go to like the signing for her. Did she really?

She retweeted the photo of me. So I'm like, we have an in somewhere. All right, great. That's all Chris needs. Great. Because also, now that we're talking about the live show on January 17th, that I brought it up, will you come join us? I would love to join you. Thank you.

This shit can blow. Will you sing? I would be honored. Really? Great. I would love to. You heard it here first. You heard it right here.

I will be there singing. Yeah, she's been cornered into it live on a podcast. You have no choice. Yeah. Excellent. Good news. Great. Mom and daughter, excuse me, are at the retreat looking at the swimming pool and all the people in there.

A lot of couples, too, is I think we see Kate clocking, like, all the couples. I think we see like a hand. hold that she clocks in this montage of sorts. Yeah, parents there are together with their children and not just. But there's just like cool information and like really sort of cutting edge technology. My man clicking so he can sort of echo locate himself on a bicycle to ride like, that's amazing. Yeah. I have a friend who worked on that project.

That's a real thing. Really? Yeah, he worked in this fabrication lab at North of Grumman for new technologies and they developed a sonar, or not sonar, but a suit for this professional blind skateboarder that had all these sensors all down his legs and body that would tap and let him know where obstacles were. But yeah, that's a real, that's a real technology. What's the Marvel joint with my man who's the Lord? That's some daredevil stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. And so you get the Also, Christian Madsen, I also has like a special power akin to Mandy Moore where they're

incapable of lying. And like, you can see on her face, Kate's face it like, there is a joy of getting all this information and she's like, I'm getting it all by myself. You know what I'm saying? Like that's happening at the same time. Like Toby would like this. Or I would want, I want him to want to like this. Probably's going to have to read all your notes. Yeah. So here, this one, the next one I have question for you guys because she's on the phone and we find out that you know she's talking on the phone it seems like she's talking to tobias but we don't see that it's gregory on the other end right like this is this is the person that she calls to share good news with gregory is really highlighting how poorly toby's doing yeah i forgot about that i was like when you start when

you start calling another dude or another woman to share like stuff about your kids like lady And you could have shared it with your partner. Right. And you're like, okay, that's something, right? Rebecca walks in and Kate tells her what's going on in their marriage and just sort of confides on how tough things have been. She's like, all this cool stuff, the riding in the bikes and the swimming in the pools. And like all these things that I think she associates with like, this is what a dad is

supposed to do with their kid, right? Is it not what you look forward to or whatnot? And you're like, you can do it? You can swim like, this is like, Rebecca has like, is like in power, right? She's like, I'm here for this moment. I understand what you need and I got you, right? And one of the lines that, like, I thought is really wonderful and very beautiful and it's simple. Like, she's like, I don't, she's like, we're going to go swimming.

She's like, I don't want to go swimming. I don't want to go swimming. Listen, you're fat. I'm ancient. We're gorgeous. It's like an owning of something and like not beating around the bush. You may be big. I may be old, that didn't mean we stop.

Living. Let's go. L-F-G. Let's go. But this is also like a new carp idea of, like for Rebecca. Like, I don't think she'd ever be that vocal normally. I mean, even the way you phrased it was like an unapologetically loving phrasing of like, yeah, you're big. Yeah, I'm old. I don't give it. Let's go. Let's go. Why are we sitting here wasting time? You want to go swimming? Yeah.

Because she basically was like, you know, I want to do all these things with Jack, but like I was giving myself a heart attack all day like about the idea of having to be in a bathing suit. And that's when Rebecca's just sort of like, oh, come on. Like life is for the living now. Let's do it. And you realize, obviously, for Kate's sake, later, why she's in this sort of new found frame of mind. Right. And that seems like a track record in Kate's life of like letting her insecurity just like get in the way of opportunity for her. Yeah. So I think it's really, it was like a perfect, like you said, it was just an unapologetic way to say it. And just obviously we find out later why Rebecca's living in this new, in this new realm. But I remember that being quoted a lot, that line. Yeah. Was it really?

Yeah, people really took to it. We're drawn to it. I think because it was so frank. Right. It wasn't coded with anything. Right. It's nice sometimes. It's nice.

I love with it. She's like, your arms went up. You're like, I don't care. Let's go. We're like, what are we doing? Why are we just sitting here talking about it? Let's go in the pool. And they do.

Tell us about the pool. Tell us how warm and cozy. The pool was nice and warm. It was very cold outside. It was right before the holiday break. And there was just a lot of deliberating about, you know, it took three and a half hours to get in the prosthetics to look older. Right. They had never done any aging on my body.

So did they do- They did my shoulders? Because I knew, because even when I saw the top of the thing, I was like, you look, this looks solid. Yeah, they did the shoulders, a lot of painting and a little bit of like the glue, the stipple and stuff like on my chest. But we had never really tested this in any kind of water or weather or anything. So I think everybody was a bit nervous about that, truth be told. But we just went for it. We did it. And Justin, thankfully, was the director because he does.

have that sort of like you can't really ruffle his feathers right right like he is so steady and he doesn't get stressed and he brings this sort of like zen like energy I think to most things but definitely to directing he's a Buddhist totally that you're like I'll just follow his lead he's not stressed out I'm not going to be stressed out and we did it and it was great like you know there's we're oftentimes on a lot on the show like we're on stages which is great on the Paramount lot. We loved that. But it always felt like a little treat

to go somewhere and do something, especially like at night. Right. In a hotel. We were far away. Like there, it was, it just,

it felt magical, you know? Yeah. And I think just the whole episode, like there's, you know, those sweet shots with me and little Isabella. And like,

it's really, it was so beautiful. Like I just, I remember that like, oh, this is, um, this is one to like really cherish.

Yeah. Yeah. that's what I end those moments with like Chrissy like I just remember you kind of like force yourself to be super present and go I want to remember this because this this these this kind of feeling these kinds of episodes the conversation like doesn't come around often I mean because once she I love everything in the pool there were so many lines that I wrote down like you know Kate talks about like it's ironic the only place that I feel weightless is the is the place that I've really like closed off my whole life. getting in the pool and Rebecca God I'm going to get emotional again I'm like I want you to take everything off your shoulders and give it to me

because I can take it is so beautiful as a parent like I just I see this constant like battle between the two of them and like I think for Rebecca God come on

I think like just to see again like Rebecca has already digested like the grace that it must take to digest where you are in life knowing that something is coming for you even if it hasn't been officially confirmed or diagnosed where you're headed and to be able to be at peace with it have that level of acceptance and to make the choice to show up and be present for yourself

for your family in a way that i don't i think she did post jack's passing because she sort of had to pick herself up by the bootstraps and keep moving forward for the sake of being the glue of the family. And she's doing it again at this juncture. It's like you realize like this woman just the fortitude she has, like the fact that she continues to make this choice like for herself but also for her family is is really, I'm just so moved by it that like she's able to just show up. Just show up and know that like, you know, she has to tell Kate like once she, they get out of the pool. She's like, now I have something to get off my chest. She helps Kate in this moment, right? If you think that you can't handle being a single parent, if that's your story, if that's what ends up

happening, if Toby isn't going to be the dad he should be or the father he should be or the husband he should be, I know you and I know you can do it by yourself. I have that belief in you and I know you have that belief in you too. And once she sort of clears the air with that and goes outside and and tells Kate about the diagnosis. It's like, again, that I just am in awe of the strength that it takes to be like, I'm okay, because that's how she basically leaves it. Like, I, what does she say? She goes, she talks about the mild cognitive impairment and that potentially leads to dementia.

But this diagnosis has made her more fun. And Kate's like, you are more fun. She's like, I know. Because I'm not sweating the small stuff anymore. It's like she's given herself, this is given her permission to just like, this new lease on life and I love that she's she's like I'm I'm done being sad and I'm not I'm done being worried like I'm okay yeah and then Kate's like you know I'm strong because you made me strong like all of that is so beautiful but to pivot back to while they're in the pool you know she talks

about she's like do you know why your nickname is bug and Kate's like yes I loved bugs growing up I love like butterflies and she's like yes and you loved lightning bugs you called them light bulb bugs And there's this, like, beautiful shot of, like, Milo and I sitting on the steps watching, like, little Kate catch this bug and how tender she was and how precious she was, like, holding it in her hands and, and whispering to the bug. Now, go find your way home. Are we all from places where there were lightning bugs? Because California, I mean, L.A. didn't have them. No, we don't. But they must have had them in Pennsylvania.

Yeah. It seems like. In the Midwest. Yeah, in the Midwest. All day. It's the South. Lightning bugs. Yeah.

I think it's more of an East Coasty. sort of thing. Gotcha. But all of this to illustrate to Kate that, like, you've always been a sensitive soul. Yes. And I see it, and it's one of the things I love the most about you, but because you're sensitive, that doesn't mean you're not strong. Like, you are capable of so much more than you give yourself credit for.

Just that in continuing to instill that in her, she does, she peppers that in throughout her life. Like, I love the way Rebecca sees Kate, always. Even if Kate isn't there to catch up to it, you know? I love the way Rebecca, like in the present and in the past, like you see, I think, some outstanding mothering. Yeah. And we'll get to the past part and it.

And at this time, she needs something very different than what she needed in the past because she was willing, like right now she says, I believe in Toby, like he'll find his way home. She does, Rebecca does. Right? And you said, Kate's not so. Right. Rebecca, sure. Right. And even if he doesn't, you still got it. You still got it. And then as opposed to the past, like, there was this sort of like very caring and very sort of aware, you know what I mean, where you could see who Mark was and you knew if you pushed too hard that that was not going to be of benefit. But when you need to say, like, you know what, I don't think you should go. And we'll get to that in a second. So let's finish what's going on here. I think that's good. That's sort of it. Is there anything, Kate, is it?

Oh, they go and end up singing some karaoke. They sing ironic together, which is really cute. Let me say, ironic for me is, is it 92, 93? No, it's like 90. No, 96 or 95? Because it's sophomore year of college for me. I think it was 96. I would sing that song.

I could hear you singing it. I love. Maybe that's what he sings at the. Alanis, yeah, Alonis, if you're listening, come duet. Please, with Sterling Kay Brown, we'll be at the Wiltson Theater. Just come. January 17th. You don't have to let us know.

I think she lives in L.A. She must. Just drop by. Unannounced. When you tell Kate about your ailment, your diagnosis, she's like, how could I not see it? She was worried. She was like, because I didn't want you to. You had enough going on.

I was something that I felt like was important to know because everybody's was like, oh, mom, I'm sorry. How come I didn't? Because you didn't. You didn't want me to know. Done being sad and worried, feels okay. And then, is that the singing, no? About to tell Toby what she needs, Rebecca says she's there for her.

Go do what you got to do. And then Cotoby, they finish it off because it's the same storyline. She tells you, like, it was incredible. Like, how was the thing? It was incredible, and you would have loved it. And then she ends up by saying, like, Toby, can you do this? Yeah. And Toby says, I want to.

Ooh. I want to. Yeah. She says, I don't want you to want to. Right. That's not an answer. I want you to do it. Yeah. She gets a phone call from her brother, right? She gets on with both of her brothers.

This is the sad three echoed again. As she says that my marriage is on the verge of falling apart. And so then she decides, I'm going to take Jack to go to the cabin. I kind of just need a little bit of space or whatnot. And he's like, you know what, leave him, leave him here. Leave the child with me. Leave the child to me. And he's like, are you sure?

And he's like, I need to spend. I'm with my son. With me, father. Let me show you I can do this. I was like, good luck. Good luck, Toby. Catherine, leave me the child. There is also two things I wanted to shout out to the fit of the shirt on young Sullivan,

because you're looking strapped and strong in the show. Thank you, sir. But again, in terms of like these moments, in terms of your remembrance of them or whatnot, like what's going on in your head, like there's the sense of. of like, and don't let me put it in your head. This is what I felt as a viewer was like, I know I'm falling short of the mark, and I have a desire not to fall short of the mark,

and I'm actively in the midst of trying to figure out how to do that, but I'm not sure. So maybe the start is like, maybe I just need to be with my boy. Was that simple? I think so. I mean, it comes down to, all right, regardless, regardless of if this is what you want to hear, Yeah.

This is honest. Yeah. I'm not going to lie to you. And then, yeah, I mean, the only way to do it is to do it. And that call again, just because there's echoes of the other parts, we do see Madison in the bed. I think that's all I need to say about that before they head to the cabin. Now, this is when we get to...

Ooh, your storyline. This is when we get to the juicy part, right? This shit is diabolical, bro. Yeah. I'll tell you something. Like, it's so interesting because I'm finally understanding, which I would have a tough time doing before, where, like, if I did something in a show that made people upset or whatnot, and then somebody would yell at me on the street, and I'd be like, hey, guys, I'm Sterling. Hi! Right?

Like, I'm finally, I'm like, I'm in that place now. Maybe it's because I'm 50, and I'm like, I don't believe them. I don't like this young man on set. I don't want them around. I do not like him. He, and also as an acting, then I just go like hats off, dude, because you killed that shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so we're dealing with young Kate at the record store. Yeah. They're having a little, like, great little time. He winds up getting her a book by Patty Smith. Patty Smith shows that he has an insight. He understands and knows what Kate's like, what Kate likes, what she's into. It's a very sweet gift, right? You heard Petty Smith?

You can get me on all white stuff. I'm known. Okay. Just checking. That's funny that you took it as sweet. What did you take it? Well, I feel like it turns. It turns quick. But I feel like it starts there.

But you disagree. Tell me with the book itself. What do you think? Immediately, he's like, I walked by a used bookstore, and I saw this and I thought of you. And she was like, oh, that's so sweet. And he's like, yeah, I mean, you make me smile every day. want to make you smile, too. It was immediately, like, narcissistic behavior of, like, I am buying your love. I'm buying something for you. Like, I just recognized this from my own life.

I was like, my, like, heckles went up immediately. I was like, yeah, I was just like, I don't, I don't like this. This is not, this is, he's not buying her a gift to buy her a gift. He's buying it to just further sink himself into her. Let me tell you something. My man makes some turns in this thing that are delightful, right? So I'm curious for you, because I thought it was like, it started in a good place. Did you feel the same sort of like thing right from jump with the book? I mean, yes.

You did. Where you're just like, this isn't a nice thing. This is your, it's a posturing of like buying someone's love. It's meant to be taken as a nice gesture, but I was like, no, no, no, no, no. What was it like for you in the scene? I think definitely, like Rebecca and even like now talking about it, like we're seeing it from a different perspective. But at the time, I think, like, Kate just feels misunderstood and is just dying for anyone's attention.

And so I think I earnestly took it at that time as like, oh, someone took notice of something that I like and took the time to go out of his way. Of course. To get something that he knew I would like. He was thinking of me. He understands me. Right. That's the genius of it. That's how they hook you.

Exactly. He would have hooked me. Well, this is... So the very first scene that you guys had together was a... a few episodes ago in the record store. But just getting to know each other as actors. I mean, how was that for the two of you? Because I'm trying to think about how much time you would have had to spend together

versus, you know, as these episodes kind of come and go, he'd probably be gone for a month or two and then be back. It was interesting because he's very much like when he's on set, he's remaining in character. So I never felt like I was really like getting, to know him. Interacting with Austin until we were fully wrapped, which was actually quite fast. I remember, like, the last day that we ever filmed together.

He was like, could I have your number in case we want to catch up and get dinner? And I was like, oh, like, you don't hate me. Like, I felt like I was almost getting to know Mark, like, as we were filming. You're English. Yeah. Which is really interesting. So he's stating character a lot. So I guess it kind of, I guess it benefited somewhat the storyline because it was like, it felt

like we were earnestly like living it out on camera as we were, because I really wasn't getting to know him much separately. And by the way, because the whole relationship was on his terms anyway. Fully. You know what I mean? It was like you just like groveling and apologizing and making sure that he was okay. Right. And like, if he was okay, then you guys were okay.

Right. So it's interesting that he did stay in character because it makes it easier to just be like, I don't know where I stand with this person. Fully. Yeah. Fully. It almost benefited. Yeah.

Okay. Was that frustrated? at any point? At any point? Were you sitting in your chair? I think that I felt confused, but like I said, it almost served. Like, I really was feeling like, I don't know where I stand with him. Like, is he upset with me?

Does he not want to get to know me? Because he doesn't, like, I didn't know if it was a personal. Interesting. I was like, oh, he was remaining in character the whole time. So it kind of made like an internal turmoil anyway that I guess was like kind of feeding into what we were breaking on. I'm going to ask him about that. Yeah, he like doesn't. He doesn't like to watch any of his playback.

He never watches anything that he films. He's very, like, going to stay in character while he's filming it and then leave it where it was. Cool. Yeah. Interesting. It works well for him. I got to delve back to this, but let's move forward with the show. He says that he's in love with her, and she invites him to come hang with the family, that they're going to the cabin for the birthday.

Is that the invitation that you extend? No, we're not going to the cabin. Just a birthday dinner at the house. Just a birthday dinner. And he says, like, I got a strange vibe from your brothers. I can tell they don't like me. whatever and she tries to reassure them like you know they're just protective all good yeah then i just wrote candy bar and customer yeah and and and and all that needs to be said i would like

i hand it over to you a hz like tell tell the people what i'm talking about and how it was like to shoot and the experience of it well yeah so we're like talking about when um they've just had this like what we think is a sweet interaction like you're saying really it was digging the closet but to kate it's like I think that he really does a lot of like lifting up and knocking down like the roller coaster of the emotion is like what makes it addictive and what keeps her like coming back because she's then always trying to earn the high again so it's like right after he gives her the book and she's feeling like so seen and so loved excited to invite him with the family then she goes to take a bite of the candy bar and he yeah goes ahead and basically are you Are you sure you want to eat that? And then you can just see, like, it was so hard watching everything back. It's almost like the way that you would, would in an actual abusive relationship, like, gaslight yourself and it wasn't that bad. I feel like I did that to myself as an actor.

And then when I watched it back, I'm like, it was horrible. It was worse. Like, then he tries to phrase it, like, as he always does, that it's coming from a place of love and care where I just know that you were working so hard on your diet. Like, as it's coming from, like, a. I love you just the way you are. Exactly. And you can just see. And he's the master of like, they smell it on you, what your insecurities are.

And then coming for exactly what she's most insecure about. Totally. And then she doesn't eat the candy bar. She doesn't eat the candy bar. I think the thing that made me more angry was this next interaction. The customer. Customer comes in. Yes.

Ask about a certain song from Pulp Fiction. Right. And Mr. No-it-all is like, yeah, it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as soon as Kate pipes in with any bit of knowledge about it in a very sweet way, like, it's funny, that song is actually a cover of a Neal Diamond song. Like, my dad loved Neil Diamond, so, like, it's, like, ingrained in me. The air in the room was just sucked out, the way Mark sort of looked at you, so smugly, so he was so angry that you think you would know anything better than him. And he, like, you know, sort of mumbles to the customer. Like, I'll take you over here and just, like, kind of shoots Kate a look that's like.

Right. That, like, made my blood boil away worse than the candy bar because it's like, oh, sure, you're just an asshole. I was like, oh, you're such a deep, deeply insecure narcissist. It makes me, like, I want to rip your head off. And I remember that line specifically, like, wanting the delivery of that line to feel very much like, it wasn't at all a dig at his, it was like, I just want to be included in the conversation. I have a fun antidote to add, like, I want to bring myself into it to be welcomed in, not to like, it just, I remember the delivery, like, specifically talking to Justin about like, you just want to be included. It's nothing against, like, of course, he's going to take it that way.

Yeah, you just have a little thing to add, which is like, which is probably interesting to the customer. You're talking about the song that he doesn't even know what it, you know, right. Let's be clear. Everybody in this scene was great. Yeah. Incredible. And that's why we have so much to say. Yeah, there's so many feelings about it.

And also understanding the way that our writer's room works. Yeah. To our writer's room, somebody in there, if not more than one person, clearly has a very clear idea of how this relationship works. So it's instantly, when I watch it, I'm like, wow, this was an interesting conversation in the radio. Yeah, this was heavy. Right.

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Get the yes you've been waiting for at Capital One.ca slash yes. Terms and conditions apply. And we come to realize, too, that, you know, in the scene that we have seen now, and this is the third episode, of Kate on the phone. You know, Rebecca's, Randall's helping her fix the washing machine. Kevin and Sophie come over a little early for the birthday dinner. We see Kate on the phone and we realize what she's on the phone apologizing to Mark, right? That she's tried him all night and he didn't answer and it's the next day.

And she's like, I thought we were going to do a deep dive on Patty. Like you gave me the book and she's just groveling. Like I'm so sorry, what did I do? Why aren't you talking to me? And again, it's just like it's so heartbreaking to see. this incredible woman have so little power in this relationship and just like kind of cycling through this same like thing over and over and over again with this person and like never knowing what way is up never knowing like what version of this person you're going to get and

it just like it broke my heart for her and as a parent as a viewer like all of that you're just like oh no yeah no one deserves this it is is the hula hoop, the roller coaster is like he talks about how eager she was to show off and it made him feel stupid, but he can't stay mad because, quote, you're the only good thing in my life. And the level... In a matter of seconds. The shooting of it is like, I'm not going to put too much energy into this.

I'm going to lay down on my back while I'm drinking a beer, and it's just like, yeah, it's just so annoying. You were so eager to show off. I felt stupid or whatever, but I guess I can't stay mad because you're the only good thing in my life. So he says what he needs to say in order to keep her on the hook. And I remember specifically like Austin asking for the beer wasn't like written into the script. He was like, I feel like he'd be like lounged out just sipping a beer. And it like did serve absolutely like how little care he really. Meanwhile, you cut to Kate, who's in tears, apologizing for something. We're realistically, like, that's why she's confused.

She knows she didn't do anything. But, like, that's his whole tactic is to make her fully doubt herself and question herself and distort the reality. That's how he keeps the power. Yeah. That is. I know that's a word everybody likes to use nowadays, but, like, that is the literal definition of what he's doing.

Yeah. So we go through that whole thing. Then we see Kate and Rebecca, and Rebecca's like, you know what? I haven't really got a chance to spend much time with old boy. And she's like, well, she's going to come to the dinner. It's like, yeah, but, you know, it's going to be all busy. Probably a bunch of stuff going on. I was like, well, if we get together before the dinner, just so the three of us can kick it, right?

And it's really, like, it's masterful sort of like an invitation and genuine. Like, I don't know, dude, and I'm trying to withhold my judgment. My sprighty sense is there. But like, let me just sit down face-to-face with dude so I can, how do you feel about it? At that point, or you were like, no, no, no, this dude's no good, or it's like, at least I got to just have a moment. Yeah. Yeah, I want to have, I've been so crazed with work and getting settled in our new house that, like, I've really missed the boat on Mark. Yeah.

And, like, he seems to be a very important person in your life. So I should get to know him. Let's go have coffee before this dinner. Right. And you're psyched. You're like, okay. Sure. So they go ahead and have coffee.

Mark's late. He's, and I think, what is you? He's significantly late, 20, 30, whoever knows, right? Comes in, Brown writes, on one. Yeah. I'm a car's a piece of crap. This guy, yo, man, I got to tell you, this guy killed this shit. Yeah.

Like, he, he was so damn good. Yeah. Like, anytime I talk about it, like, I can't not get upset. Mm-hmm. Because he was fast, freaking good. I was like, how y'all come in to meet? Talk to her mama. The level of entitlement and sort of disregard.

Yes. That is, that's what I call some white people's shit. Like, I can't. I ain't never seen no brother ever roll in like that and think that they can actually pull it off. Right. Yeah, there's a lot of privilege in that that asked to. Right. Wors shit.

Right. Car's a piece of crap. He's rude to the wait staff. Right. He needs to get his coffee. Hey. Oh, sweet. Gajon.

Immediately. Hey, bro. And, like, you can see the looks. Like, Rebecca's like, all right now. And Kate just, like, very sweetly, like, reaches out to him. Right. Knowing, like, I'm here. You're here.

Let's, we're okay. Like, there was something so sweet and steady about that. Yeah. I was like, oh, this girl. They share a, this is another one. You guys probably know a meatloaf reference. I knew it was a meatloaf reference. I was like, I missed it, because I'm sterling.

But it was a sweet moment of sort of like, okay, they have a connection. Yes. They have a connection. Rebecca in first, how much they must love working at the record store, right? And Kate says, yes, Mark says, not really. Yeah. You're talking about a record scratch. Like, without the record store, we wouldn't be together.

Like, the record store is kind of like how it all happened. It's what bonds us. It's where we spend most of our time together. Right. Tells everyone that he just quit His boss was getting mad at him Probably for taking too many smoking breaks Or like smoke breaks or what have you

And Kate's like What? You quit? You quit when? Oh, today. Oh. First of all I was like I don't want to like vilify anybody Like the short the short hands that happened Like and I think part of his Austin making choice Like okay he drinks a little

Oh and he also smokes a little whatever So he's a bad guy Like you know what I'm not putting that up But like there's just little small like thing of the jiggas that the writers would be like, oh, this is what this guy's into. You know, we smoke cigarettes. There you go.

Bad boys. Kate brings up Patty Smith, and then Mark says, you know, oh, they talk about making music. How excited they are and how beautiful voices and everything. And Rebecca's like, I know. I know my daughter. She's like, you ain't telling me nothing.

We agree on that. And? Where do you think she gets it? There you go. Boom. And then they say, like, you know, like, we're working on writing songs together and everything. And so, like, there's more connection coming through. It's like, but I got to get it out of Pittsburgh to do it.

Yeah. Who are you, bro? Yeah. Right, write your flipping song. You can write it in the bathroom, right in your car. You don't have to go nowhere. Right? So mad at him.

And I wrote after love bombing her about her voice, I said, mom sees all the red flags. I put that in capital letters. So you guys can tell you. talk about this thing, but it's hard for me to talk about without raising my voice. I apologize to everybody. Let's take a deep breath. Yeah, he just talks about how he's outgrown the record store. They want to write music together. They got to get out of Pittsburgh. Kate's like, oh, we should go to my family cabin. And Rebecca's like, oh my God, the cabin. I haven't even opened it up for this season yet. And Kate's like, we'll do it, right? Like, Hugh and Mark,

we'll go. We'll open it. We'll write music there. It's like killing two birds with one stone. And Rebecca's immediately like, I don't know about that. I don't know if I feel completely comfortable with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kate and Rebecca are having a convo. There's an argument over Mark. And there's a couple of quotes I put in there. Maybe I paraphrase, but I want to say,

After Dad, I genuinely thought I would never be happy again. Mark loves me, right? And you say something to the fact, like, I don't care if you like him. I like him. I like him. You know what I'm saying? It reminds me of this. thing that my mom told me about, mom's married at 18 or 19, and she talked about sort of

her own sort of lack of affection between her and her dad. And she said, like, as soon as somebody shows you affection, like, you never know if that's going to come along whenever. So you just, I just got married. Right? Like, it was that simple of a thing, right? And it reminds me, I don't have a daughter, but it reminds me of, like, just how valuable, my affection sentence to my children. Like, you know, I don't have a daughter. I'm just going to love up on these dudes as much as possible so they don't feel like they have to go

to the first thing that comes along in order to get... To seek affection elsewhere, yeah. Anything, right? What do you guys remember about the scene? It's so interesting with Rebecca, it's like, you can tell that she doesn't want to push too hard. She's always just... It's interesting watching it back

because at the time when I'm playing the character, it's like I'm only really focused on my perspective and how I feel about it. And then watching it in hindsight. And also, like, now that I'm a little older and, like, my relationship with my own mom, it's just, like, to be able to see Rebecca's perspective and how much she's, like, already, like,

handling all her own grief and all the complications in her life, but then also, like, trying to take on and be there for her daughter, but not push too hard because she already knows. But I think it's interesting that Kate says, whatever the direct line is, that ever since dad died,

I never thought I would be happy again and like basically implying that this is the first time she's going to feel happiness whereas like it's almost like she knows that like even in the conversation in the cafe like the way that she's anxious and uncomfortable and doesn't know what's going to come out of his mouth and she's clocking that her mom is clocking this it's like I guess that's what it is being like you're protecting the person all the time really like when she uses her logic it's like she knows that this is not a healthy situation and not even really one where it's bringing joy so it's almost like when she's saying this is the only time I'd feel happy when all he's really doing is making her upset. I'm like, maybe she just

is looking for any other emotion, even if it's to feel sadness. Like, as long as it's not, the grief is not focused on the death of my dad anymore. Even if I'm not focused on the happiness in this relationship, maybe I'd rather sit in the sadness about Mark than I, then to take the distraction off of the sadness that I'm feeling about my father's passing. There's also the thought But even in the dysfunction, passion feels good. Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Like, there's, like, whether it's sensual or antagonistic, it's always passion. Right. And maybe it's like, man, I haven't had that. It's also informative, you know, like every relationship you are in will fail until one doesn't. Right. That's not a good ratio. Yeah. Right.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And like, not working in your favor. Yeah, and every relationship up until the one that doesn't is informative. Yeah. For the better or the worse. Sure. Yeah.

Especially when we're young. Yep. Totally. I've been in relationships like this where I'm the one who's being kind of gaslit and manipulated and confused and put down and raised up and knocked out. And it's just occurring to me now. Like, I'm curious about the process of this entire show for you as an actor. You got all of Kate's struggle. Right.

And then the happiest part of Kate's life has handed over to another actor. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, this formative time of your life. You got all the garbage. Yeah. Right. You know, the informative stuff that's so, and the biggest romantic partner that you get as an actor is someone you're not really enjoying being around.

Right. It's like. I was always asked, like, if Christy and I discuss the role a lot or if, like, I come to her about a lot of things or if I study her. And I was, as much as, like, we're sharing the role, I would always say, like, my years of Kate felt so disconnected from where she is in the future. so it felt like very much my own person because she was so vastly different but that's what's so cool about this show is like usually as an actor

like you're informing yourself of like you know trying to imagine like what past traumas led me to where I am today and how will this resolve in the future and it's like to have it all written and like played out for you and be able to already see it to like inform the present time

that I'm working in to know that like you know I think it's later maybe it's the next episode or I don't remember what when Kate finally like shows up and tells Markoff as an adult. It's like to have that knowledge in my toolbox, like I just felt like just added to like what I could bring to the teenage years. But yeah, it was definitely like the most tumultuous time.

But I was fond of it because it was the most transformative. It was like so emotional and so fresh in the grief. You had a lot of meat on the bones, sis. Yeah. Yeah, a lot to do. Yeah, I enjoy it. As an actor, right? Yeah.

It's interesting because I'm trying to think about the story. lines of these three children. And if you were to mash them together into one personality, you've got Randall, who seems so confident and is actually pretty clear on who he is from the beginning. Right. And at the end of the show, is still that person. Not that he doesn't go through changes and through evolutions.

Right. And then there's Kevin who is confident, but he's not behaving. He's not acting in a way that is true to who he is. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so his change involves him living most of his life in an inauthentic way, almost. Just like he's trying to figure out who he is. Yeah.

And then act accordingly. Right. And then Kate is like a combination, a drastic combination of both where she has this shift, right? Of confidence or where she goes from. this era of her life to a different era of her life where she's where she's trying to yeah i don't know it's i'm this this these three episodes is an interesting kind of turning point in the three of their right the storylines it's a lot of her like self-discovery of her own self-confidence because so much of like what's being instilled in her is a lot through her is through jack like there's

the whole interaction that they have of like i hope that one day i can see myself the way you see me And Jack just always pouring into her. So then when she loses that, it's like a big shift for her to finally find that she can supply it for herself. And I think that ties back to the pool conversation where now Rebecca's kind of taking the place of Jack and instilling into her what she maybe knows already but needs to hear of just like you can do. You're strong enough. You can do it. I believe you can do it. And sometimes you just need to hear from the outside perspective, like I believe you can do it.

A big part of who we are is how we are reflected back by the people who care about us. Right. The relationship is important. We cannot survive without it. Right. And that's why healthy relationships are so important so that I surround myself with people that I love and trust, you know, who when I look at them, I can trust them to reflect me back accurately. Right. Yeah.

In a way that is helpful. Right. But then there comes this time where the person in or the people in our lives, it's a metaphor of, you know, you have to grow up. You go from child to adult or you have to leave your father's house or you have to start deciding who you are. Right. As an individual. Right. And it's these unhealthy relationships, unfortunately, or ironically, isn't it ironic?

Isn't it? where we learn the most about who we are, who we want to be, or who we don't want to be. Right. Which is unfortunate, but it's also, it's part of everyone's process. Right. It was just part of her evolution, because the reality, like, if Jack was still alive, she probably would never end up with a guy like Mark. Yeah. I think you're right.

Yeah. And it's kind of like you're saying the reflection. The first time, Mark came. to the house and Jack was there. That's a wrap. Yeah, that would have been that. It's a wrap. Yeah, it's a wrap.

We're good, young man. We'll see you later. Thank you for your time. Say it again. And it's not a coincidence that a guy like Mark prays on someone who can smell she's in a vulnerable position. Of course.

In a place of grief. That's their super power. That is their power. There's little things too. Like, little, you know, and I don't know if this is on purpose, but like his mustache. his plaid you know there's like these little things that are jack-esque way adjacent you know what i mean

but that you could you could see that there's some kind of version of that yeah yeah right she was looking for she says first and only person to look at me that way right so just in terms of that passion that was the thought that i had and then you leave you say like it doesn't matter what you want or not like i'm going up to the cavern i'm going now can't stop me and then she's your birthday dinner She leaves you with a nice little Miguel. Oof. Yeah, like, don't worry, Miguel will be around to pick up the pieces. That's Kate's signature.

Bam. Is leaving the room with just a dagger. That is Kate's signature move. Yeah, it really is. Poor Miguel. Catching strays. Not even in the room. Yeah.

What did Miguel do? Okay. All right, so this is where... Camera swings over. Hey! He's out in the driveway. Yeah. This is where you guys have to remind me.

me to breathe again because Kate and Mark are in the car. What are you guys singing? You guys are grooving together. What's the song? Ben Folds Five. Taylor was very excited about this when we're watching. Ben Folds Five. No.

Well, I thought about the Army. It's a cool song, though. And I liked it out. You guys are so cute singing. The frustrating part about it is that now we have a sense of the roller coaster. You have a sense of like the high can only stay there for so long before it's going to come back down again. Right? So they're singing, she's bummed that he quit the store. And real quick, like, we've covered the storyline, but in this episode,

we're paralleling with this little girl telling the story about going into the woods. Yes. Right. With her prince. This is right. And just the vast difference of the imagination of how it's going to be and how it is, it's just, like, so painful. Boy, preach on it.

speak. She's bummed that he quit the store, right? And he's like, yeah, but you know what, I want to spend time like talking about music, want to make music, whatever. And then he's like, you should quit too, you know, and we can go make the music. And wants to make it instead of just talking about it. Then she's like, well, you know, I kind of, I kind of like this job. I need the money. I kind of need the money. I've been saving up so I can stop living with my mom and all this stuff. And so it goes from that to like, so you're not going to quit. The switch is, like, so drastic. And you feel it's sitting in that car.

Immediately. It's like... Oh, man. May I also add, is this... Was the whole scene shot practical in a real car? Yeah, we were in a real car. Because a lot of scenes have now shifted to where we're on the soundstage and we have the lights on by. I think some of it was in the sound stage, like, a lot...

But then, like, him, like, the pulling off. Like, we did do some of the shots in the actual. Yep. But I think the speeding was actually in the sound. on stage. All right. So she gets upset. Then he gets upset that she won't quit. And he begins to drive erratically. And she begs him to slow down. And he's just not listening. He's careless. You're like, boy, this guy's going to crash the car. My man's hitting corners. Like it and it's like, I'm not feeling good about this thing at all. She finally just asked him to stop me. He finally

stops. And then this is heartbreaking also. It's not like, it's like, all right, I think we just need some air. Exactly. It's not you effing lunatic drop me off. It's let's take a breath. Thank you. Yeah. Let's take out and get some air.

Which you would have been placating in your right mind to say that to him. It's like still pacifying. So even like you can hear the wild lines like while he's driving of just like, I know, I know baby. It's okay. Like I'm sorry. Like basically apologizing for not wanting to quit just because always trying to babysit his. Yeah. So as she gets out of the car to get here...

You're doing a great job, Sterling. Thank you. First of all, you're doing a great job of getting through this storyline. Yeah, that's so upsetting. Without going Hulk on this boyfriend. It is beyond frustrating, dude. Says, she gets out of the car,

and he's like, come on, you're going to get out, whatever? And he says, can't even look at your fat face and leaves her alone on the side of the road. in the dark dude dude I've I've almost gone toe to toe with a six year old on a playground for far less

for far less offensive for far less yeah they're far far far less egregious behavior yeah to try and put myself in that position as a as a father and she is left to walk

let's think about this is the middle because I remember Justin being like remember it's all obvious, but just like a tit of like, there's no, you don't have a cell phone. Like, there's no, it's not like the modern, like, you're in the Uber, literally. Justin was like, let me tell you about the 1900s. Yeah. Yeah. But just like the stakes of how much higher it was, of like, you're really just here with your studded backpack. Yeah. In the dark, in the woods, by yourself, no navigation, no under call. Like, yeah. I think that, I think as an audience member,

if you haven't reached a place of total exasperation with Mark, This is inexcusable. You don't leave a young lady in the middle of nowhere without a means of communication in the cold while insulting her as you drive off. So I think like now whatever happens after this point, you've crossed the point of no return. If you haven't already, right?

No, no, no, 100%. My only hope in this scene, as I was watching, it was like, okay, she's out of the car. Sure. She's going to be safe. That's the good news. Totally right. And what if they cut?

She won't get hurt. What if they cut to this car wrapped around a tree? That was like, because I'm like, that would be a nice resolution to this episode. Oh, my God. Because, I don't know, if you know, like, we're in the age of this show. We're like, wait, what happens in the next episode? I can't remember. So I'm like, part of me is like, I know he doesn't, but wouldn't that be the perfect?

Wouldn't it be? Yeah, kind of nice. He drives erratically right off a cliff. You know, she's walking along the road. She finds a guardrail. that's just split up. And hey, what's down there? Oh.

What's happened here? She does find a pay phone and a gas station. Yes. What's a pay phone? A pay phone is sort of a permanent box. It's like a landline, a permanent landline that allows you to call other landlines or cell phones. You pay for it. Like a quarter.

What's a quarter? Which is like, it's a bit of like coin currency. It's something like you hold your phone. It's doing it and it says 25 cents. Yeah. You scan the barcode. So she finds his phone. She finds his phone.

She calls her mom and is sort of crying. Mom immediately recognizes something's going on. What's wrong? And she's just like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm sorry. That's basically like, like how I left things. And I'm sorry I'm missing your birthday. And you could tell she's right on the precipice of telling her like, you were right.

Absolutely. Mark's an asshole. Yes. This is what happened. Right. When Homeboy shows up behind her. Pulls up with a blanket. Yep.

Yeah. And I know, Sterling, I felt the same way. It was like, just tell your mom to come and get you. This was a Nancy Reagan moment. Just say no, bro. Just, just go. So you do know about some white people. I do know.

I do. Yes. Just say no. Because my man rose up. He's holding a blanket, right? And now I believe I represent the audience. We were like, yeah, fuck off, bro. Yeah, he's like a killer in a horror movie.

He might as well have like a mask and a knife. It's like, girl, come back on me. A codependent killer. Right, yeah. Come back in my car of death. Yeah. Cates tells mom everything's okay or something like, never mind, I've talked to you.

And she goes and allows herself to be wrapped in this blanket. He says something about being sorry and, Loving. I don't even care what he says at this time. Right. Right. We're done. And now we're really scared.

And neither does mom to her credit because he's like, mm-mm. Something's not right. I'm going to get my baby. Right. And that's what sits into motion. Like, Kev comes in. Like, something's going on with your sister. I think we need to go get her.

He's like, mom, say less. Let me call Randall. Like, let's posse up. Yep. Right. And go. Because I think everybody at this point is like, yeah, no, dude, you did sense right. We don't like you.

Yeah. Right. Because you're not likable. Sad three. You're not likable. And so now it's time for the positing. You're about to fill the full wrath of the Pearson's. You know what I'm saying?

The only thing that didn't happen in the storyline that I think I really wanted, but probably wasn't healthy, is to see young Kev and young Randall stomping this dude. Right. In the next episode, I wanted to see dude get stomped by Nile. Was it on here? Yep. They would have gotten away with it back then, too. Out in the woods, their cabin, no social media.

Totally. Is there anything else to this storyline? I think that's it. For this episode. Yes. Hannah, you killed it per usual. Thank you. So good.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my gosh. It was really, like I said, just rewatching was like a whole new experience. It's so different when you're presently working on it. And then you're, like, focused on what's coming that you're filming next. Yeah, and reflecting back years later.

Yes, it was like, wow. With newfound life under your belt. Right. And this storyline specific, I had the most of all the storylines that had the most people talk to me about this storyline specifically. Yeah. Which I thought was really powerful. It's like. What did you get reflected back?

What would they say to you about it? A lot of it was like hearing how many women like carry the shame and like internalize it on themselves instead of like even being. removed from the relationship, like, still not fully healed of realizing, like, that was all on you. You did that to me. I did nothing to just always caring, like, and feeling like, why did I stay and feeling so ashamed? So, like, it was a lot of women being, like, I was able to, like, openly have conversations

that I didn't have, or, like, I was able to see it from, like, a bird's eye view and realize, like, I was young and taken advantage of and manipulated, and, like, this is no longer my shame to carry like I'm I'm free I'm relieved of it and it was like really yeah really powerful to hear from like if it just makes obviously like I feel you guys must relate with so much like it's so much more than just the show that we all loved filming and like it was the best times of my life but then to have it like really impacting people in their own lives and in their homes it's like whoa it feels so much bigger than like what we were doing lasting connections yeah We're going to have a little break

And then we're going to do another segment A little Q&A We had people send out some cues for you to A Cues and A's Okay, gang It's fan segment time And today we are excited So excited to have Hannah Zeal here for special Q&A

We had some fans send in some great questions For you today Hannah Are you ready to see what they have to ask? I'm ready to give some A's. Okay, let's give some A's. Let's get into the first question. First cue. Go to the board.

Lynn Standridge. I told you. Hey, Lynn. We see you, Lynn. We see you, Lynn. Honestly, next time we do like a member, like a fan. Come talk to us, Lynn. Send us a little voicemail.

She should be the fan that we have to compete again. Lynn's paying attention. She's growing the show. Lynn asks. Oh, she sent in. Oh, she's a lot. Oh, we love Lynn. Okay, we love it.

Standridge is on business. First question. Was it fun? That was good. That was good, so I got you. Was it fun getting to sing the song where I belong? I love that song. Thank you, Lynn. Yes, I was so excited. I got to, I was, like, totally surprised. I didn't know that it was going to be a song on the soundtrack. I remember just going originally just to record it for the episode, because obviously there's the clip where, like, Milo's filming me, like, singing in my bedroom. And then being able to work with the genius of Sid. was just, it was phenomenal. It was so much fun.

And, yeah, it's really, like, it's so beautifully written, too. It's, like, so, it tells a story that whole song, just, like, of Kate's frame of mind. Maybe you should brush up on it a little bit. Yeah, maybe that's what we sing on. Did they? Maybe that's what we sing live at the show. Absolutely.

Did they know you were singing when you booked the game? Cornered her. She didn't seem confident about that one. She's like, no, I guess. No, no, no, I will brush up. I'll brush up. A good one? Yes.

I'm good one. with it. Okay. They never asked me if I sang in my auditioning process. I just remember coming into like at the beginning of season two, they had me come to a meeting with the whole writer's room and they were like, we just kind of want to like chat about your storyline. And KJ. was like, do you sing for chance? Because like it's kind of going to mess some of our storyline. Like, do you sing? And I was like, yeah, I do. And I had some like recordings on my phone from stuff that I had done for fun. And then she was like, great. Sounds good. I got you.

God, like, it was my first experience, like, singing live in front of, like, the crew of people. I remember being so nervous when we were going to shoot the shot of, like, on the video camera. Yeah, of me singing. I was like, oh, I did it in the recording studio, but I have to sing it live? You killed it. You killed it. Thank you. Totally. You have to sing it live again.

Next question. Who's got it? It's, uh, Baba Yaka. Oh, man. You know who you are. Then it gets serious. I'm sorry. Yeah, I should have read the question first.

Go ahead. I lost my dad at a young age, and the pain that a daughter has, losing their dad so young, is brutal. How did you channel that agony for playing Kate? Good question. Yeah. So interestingly enough, when I was around the same age as Kate, so around 16, it wasn't a death, but it felt like a death to me because my parents divorced and my dad left. So, in a weird way, it, like, feels like a death, but almost, like, with no grieving process and no peace to it because they're still alive and, like, outliving. And it almost feels, like, more pointed and chosen because it's like, oh, but you have the choice to be around.

So I think that I channeled a lot through that through just, like, the longing of, like, the separation of relationship. Question for you. And I don't want to go too deep into forcing you to share things. before did you feel very connected to your dad? Yeah. I used to, my dad took me to like all my auditions growing up. And I was like totally a daddy's girl. So that's why I actually like before booking this,

I think we talked about it last time I came on. Like I took a four year break from acting because it was so intertwined with that relationship for me that I was like, I just want to like go do high school and go work my cashiering job at Chipotle and just live in me. And then I remember, like, turning freshly 18 and being like, this is going to be my choice now. Like, I can drive myself to these auditions. And I can be on a set on my own. And, like, I can empower myself in this.

And then it was just confirmed for me for it to be the first audition, like, when I turned 18. Yeah. My first audition in four years to book. This was like, that was the confirmation I needed. Okay, I can do this independently. That's right. I love that. Okay.

All right. Thank you, Baba Yaga. Rainbow Riz. Which scene was the most memorable for you to shoot and why? Hmm Does this mean like for this episode or just in general? Just in general. I mean I have to say the fire

All the stuff with the fire I mean it was like Super late shoots We were there to like 4 a.m. They actually like built the whole house To then actually burn We were working with real fire I got to do my own stunts

That's ma'am We lowered from the roof So and also just that whole episode like From the beginning of booking the show It was like we knew the importance of that episode because you always knew Jack died and this was like going to be the revolution.

So it just felt like very important to make sure that we portrayed it correctly. So definitely the fire sequence. Yeah, that makes sense. I got you. Who's next? This is this from Lacey B. How did you emotionally prepare for your scenes with Mark

where your character was in an abusive relationship? Sister, how did you? Yeah, good question. I'm trying to, I don't. feel like I, like, did a lot of, like, full preparing for, like, what the toxic relationship would be. I feel like I tried to enter it authentically, like, as Kate would. Yeah. So it was not really preparing for, like, to know that it was going to be a domestically violent relationship. It was more just, like, earnestly believing, like, where Kate was coming from

all the time. And then just, like, like, we talked about, like, the rollercoaster, the highs and the letdowns. And, like, I guess just only other preparation is, like, when you start reading about like narcissism and like the certain traits it's like it ends up being so boring because they're so predictable they all have the same tactics they use the same thing so it was like I guess that's the awareness that I was informed of is like when I started hearing from people that had been through similar relationships I'm like they all use how boring they all use the same tactics so like now you can really have a keen eye to be aware of it because they're going to be using the same the same tricks but yeah I guess just earnestly entering it like

as Kate would and then deeply feeling like the letdowns and the disappointment and like the revelation of her finally realizing this was not what I thought it was and now I feel ashamed because I was tricked here but I guess just I mean the story relates to this unfortunately it is a relatable story it is recognizable to too many people but hopefully because of your excellent work and the excellent work of everyone around you in the storyline

maybe it can give some people a heads up. Yeah. And make people feel less alone. Yeah. And less ashamed. And to see it coming down the road and to maybe avoid it. Maybe there's a few people who are able to avoid. I mean, trauma bonds are real and it's like such a vulnerable time in her life.

So, yeah, hopefully it spread some awareness. Like I said, I received a lot of messages that it feels like it was therapeutic for a lot of people, which is important. That's great. Thank you, Lacey, B. Oh, this is at M. Jagger 4. Did you study your adult selves on the show? You each have so many of the same mannerisms. Yeah, maybe like study is like too strong award.

I think that I just like am a fan of Chrissy Metz. Like I think that her performance like is so moving every time. So I think just like watching the show even before booking like had already seen the two episodes that had been aired and just like being a fan of Chrissy that maybe subconsciously I was like taking on some of her mannerisms. Wow. But a lot of times, like I'd mentioned before, like adult Kate was so vastly different than teenage Kate that it was like it didn't really feel like they were even like court.

They felt like two different people almost. Like there was obviously threads that tied them. So not fully studying, but I think just being in awe of Chrissy Mets. Niles told us that the three of you obviously developed a pretty good bond on the show, but would also hang out together outside of work. Yeah, like, truly, like, two of my best friends. And go out into the world together. Yeah.

What was it like when the three of you were spotted together in public? I know. It's funny. We've done, like, a few, like, we went to six flags one time, especially, like, Niles and I went to have gone to Disneyland a few times. Like, it's so funny for people to. It's one thing. Yeah, to see one of us.

Yes. And I feel like I get a lot of, maybe because I was, I was like, I'm older than I was then or like I was in prosthetics like I get a lot of like do I know you from somewhere which I can never know how to answer that question but um but when what's the three of us it very much solidifies like you're that three from that show yeah we've definitely done the big three chant in public for people a few times yeah it's on the it must live on a video somewhere yeah yeah it's on social somewhere yes incredible whenever anyone asks me if they know me from anywhere I pick my most obscure credit and ask about that that's a genius

You ever see Peter Pan live? That's so good. I'm like, I don't know that. Were you with me? I was one of the featured, featured pirates. Oh, so I was a noodler. Oh, wow. That Christopher Walken just, of his own right, renamed Noodles.

Noodles! I would just call me noodles. That was you. That was me. Wow. And they were like, yeah, that's it. That's what it was. So pick, like, if you're going to play the game, if you're going to play the game of, like, somebody being like, what they got you cornered and like, what's your resume? Start at the bottom and work your way up. It's more fun. Do you still do that? Yeah, for me anyways, it's fun for me. I'll mention my California dairy products commercial. Yeah. That's a good one. That's. I worked with a real cow.

That's a good one. Do you like milk? Yeah. Did you see the, did you see the sweeps episode of NCIS Special Victims Unit? 2012? Act break three. Mechanic, working on car? Go to the next question, please. From Eliapie? Alia. Alia? Alia. Alia has a Y in it, doesn't it? I guess the Y can be. It could be. Yeah.

It's P. It's Pah. Yeah, sorry. Have you seen the show all the way through as an adult and has your perspective changed watching it versus filming it? I've seen the show all the way through during the time that it was airing live. However, I have not rewatched it now being removed from it only the episodes that I've come to the podcast to discuss but I'm now considering like I feel inspired to rewatch it because it does really change your perspective especially just as like you live life

and you have like your own experiences and you know I was like freshly 18 when I when I booked this and now I'm like in my mid-20s I feel like I'm like growing into more Whereas, like, I feel like I can finally now feel so much empathy for Rebecca, just, like, entering, like, a new stage in my life and just so much of, like, the relationship I had with my mom at 16, where it was like, I only really saw things from my perspective and could not understand why she didn't see it my way or, and then to realize just like, she was just a woman, too. Like, it's her first time at life. she's experiencing things for the first time as well and she's like earnestly trying her best

and always showing up like my mom has that in common with Rebecca of just like the you can shut me down every time and I'll remain here with open arms and never hold it against you and that's a blessing. Not everyone has that.

So definitely like me and my mom boo-hoo cry at all the mother-daughter episodes but definitely watching it now is like a little bit older and from a woman's perspective I'm like gosh I have a new appreciation for Rebecca. Oh, yeah.

Rebecca holds it down. She does. Can we have any more? You did some excellent mothering. This is an email from Bianca S. Do you wish you got to sing more on the show? I mean, I would have loved to sing more, but I was, like I said, when I auditioned, I didn't know that I'd be singing at all.

So even to be able to sing at all, I was feeling very lucky. I think everybody kind of got hoodwinked. Did you expect to be singing? No. I don't think any of us did. Chrissy didn't either. It was just something they sprung on all of us. Yeah.

And you guys all happened to be wonderful. I expected to be singing and never got to. They didn't give you anything. I'd constantly try to slide a song in there and they'd be like, hey, we don't have the rights. Pipe down, pipe, pip, pip, did I sing more on the show than you? Yes. Yes, you did.

Jealous, calling me jealous. That's it. Hannah, you are such a delight. Thank you so much for, like, finally coming in person. I mean, this is such an important episode. We definitely want to have you back. There's lots more to chat with you about. Absolutely.

So lovely to have your perspective. Where can the people follow you online? And is there anything we should know about that's going on currently in your life? All my social medias are at Hannah Zeal X-O. And honestly, not too much new to report, but that's where you can find me. Great. We love it. And thank you so much for having me.

This was so fun. It's so fun to reminisce and to be able to hang out with you guys. A.C. You're awesome. Yeah. Thank you for class. In this place up, what are you talking about? We need it.

If you want to reach out to us, you can send us an email at That Was UsPod at gmail. Yep. Or you can leave us a voicemail at... You always look at me, like, I'm going to fix it up. No, I'm hoping the answers are in your eyes. SpeakPipe.com slash that was us to leave us a voice message. It's our new emotional support hotline. That's a website on the worldwide web.

At www. Don't forget, that was us. Don't, yep, type that in anymore. It's crazy. It just knows it. Yeah, it just knows it. Your web browser knows. Reach out.

Let us know what you think. Or don't. And remember, you can still grab tickets to our live show, January 17th at the will turn here in Los Angeles. You can find tickets on ticket master. I will be there. Yes. Hannah's singing.

Sterling's singing. Chris is singing. Mandy's also singing. Yeah, everyone's singing. Sure, we're all singing. We're all singing. Everyone's singing. If you come to the show, you're also singing.

There you go. Yep, we're going to have mics in the audience. Call and response. I dig it. dig it. La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la we're looking to your camera and we tell them the name of this podcast. That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Thank you.