That Was Us - Marilyn's Funeral | "Don't Let Me Keep You" (604)

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

This week on That Was Us, we’re breaking down This Is Us Season 6, Episode 4: “Don’t Let Me Keep You.” As Jack says goodbye to his mother, Marilyn, he begins to discover the life she built after leaving his father and confronts how much of her story he never knew. In this episode, the hosts chat about: * Whether children can ever love their parents as much as parents love their children * Sterling’s memories of staying up late with his mom and the importance of simply being present with the people we love * How losing a parent can change the way we see them—not just as our parents, but as people with lives and stories of their own * The complicated feelings that can come with grief, including regret over the time we didn’t have * Why being fully present may be one of the greatest gifts we can give someone They also break down the episode, including: * Jack arriving at Marilyn’s home and realizing how much he didn’t know about her life * Meeting Mike, Marilyn’s boyfriend, and discovering the life she built after leaving Stanley * Marilyn and Jack’s Sunday phone calls * Jack finding the ice skates Marilyn bought for Kevin, Kate, and Randall * Jack’s emotional eulogy and his realization that his mother had finally built a home of her own * The meaning behind the episode’s title, “Don’t Let Me Keep You” And a friendly reminder, you can catch new episodes of That Was Us every Monday, a day early, exclusively on Hulu. Available on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts on Tuesdays like usual! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing. With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn. - See how K12 Powered Schools can help unlock your child’s full potential! Enroll online today at https://k12.com/thatwasus - This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://Betterhelp.com/twu today to get 10% off your first month. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. On today's episode of that was us, we're diving into season six, episode four. Don't let me keep you. As Jack returns home from his mother's funeral, he discovers a side of Maryland's life he never knew. Through memory spanning decades, the episode explores how the people we love continue to shape us long after we leave home and how it's never too late to see someone in a new light. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters.

On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season. Save on lunchbox savers like. Ziggy's sliced deli meat products for always 375 and get Life Brand Pure Vita

shampoo or conditioner for $8 each at Real Canadian Superstore. When you're ready, we're ready with a whole world and more. What's going on, gang? Hello, hello. How you guys doing? Yeah, good. Well, how are you? I'm doing quite well. I love this episode. I really do. And there's not many episodes that

Randall's not in, but Randall's not in this one at all whatsoever. You got a nice little break. Got a nice little break. and my man, Ventimilia, put in some work. It's a beautiful episode. It's a really gorgeous. It's a very quiet episode, right? Jessica Yu was the director of this episode, and she did a fantastic job.

I think this was her second one. I know she directed before. She may have done two or three, yeah. But this was probably her last one of the season slash series. I think it was just such a quiet, meditating. sort of recollection of a life and sort of your relationship to that life. Yeah, reconciling, getting to know someone after they've gone. Yeah.

And Jack grappling with the perception he had of his mom and the distance and disconnect they had and who he blamed that disconnect on. And the, you know, anger. he had at himself for not being able to sort of overcome that before she was gone. Yeah. Thinking that kind is endless. Yeah. And they would eventually go visit her and ice skate on that frozen pond by her house that she wanted to, you know,

she wanted the kids to come and visit and do that. And it's just like, yeah, life sometimes takes an unexpected turn. And watching him sort of put together the pieces of this woman, he didn't know later in life. He just sort of relegated his mom to a memory of a sad woman who got out of an abusive situation but lived a quiet, sad life in a corner of Ohio, and he didn't really know much more to her than that.

And to see the shape that her life took, the color it was infused with by going and help prepare whatever the services were going to be for her, meeting with her cousin Debbie that she lived with, meeting with her boyfriend. Like, you know, we, her cat. Well, I'm like, we'll get to that. But watching this story sort of unfold

and come to fruition and come to life in a way that really surprised Jack and watching Milo as an actor sort of like fill in all of that was really beautiful. Gorgeous. Yeah. Quite gorgeous. And it sort of brings to mind this question

I wanted to ask you guys before we get into the heart of the episode. And this question is, do you think it is possible? Yes or no? I'm not leading. I'm asking for children to love their parents as much as their parents love their children. Do I think it's possible? Yes. Yes. Do I think it is common? Right. No.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. But it doesn't dawn on to you until you have to you have to you. I've witnessed those relationships. Yeah. where it's like a true like partnership, friendship, right, equal love, equal respect.

Yeah. You know. Between child and parents. Yeah. Yeah. But that takes, I think that takes a really evolved parent. Sure. From the get.

Sure. To nurture that type of relationship. Mm. To nurture a relationship to where the child is able to love them as much as the parent loves. and see them authentically. That's interesting. And experience them as a full human being. Yeah.

What's your take? I don't know. I mean, being a parent, it does hit you in a different way. Like, oh, my gosh. I would hope that my child would love me as much as I love them so impossibly. But it doesn't seem possible. It is, so like I feel like Sterling, Kelby Brown, and Arlene Brown, had something pretty special.

I think we had something pretty special because she was a little bit of an older mom when she had me. And so she wasn't sort of day-loose. She had three kids back, back, back, and then she had me. So there was really just sort of keeping your head above water young, growing up.

Like it was a young woman raising children versus like an adult woman raising a child, right? And so like there are these moments I remember in college where I would come home after kicking it with friends in the neighborhood or whatnot, come home 1 o'clock, 1.30, et cetera. And I thought I was about to go lay down. And Arlene would walk down the stairs and say like, hey, what are you doing?

I was like, huh? I was about to go to sleep. And she's like, what would you do tonight? We talked for like three or four hours, bro. Like she's like, I'm going to get my time. And you know what? I was like, no, I'm going to get my time. Like both of us were like overjoyed to like have moments

to just be with each other. That's wonderful. Wow. Which is really, really cool. So I may come close, but in having these children, man, yeah. I was like, you can't love me the way I love you, dog. You know what I'm like?

Like I had the skin in the game of like, I have called you forth into being. Like I asked, Ryan and I said, like, we should bring people, right? We need more people. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, it was for us.

Like, it was like, I asked for you to be here. And I can remember you. I helped create you. I helped create you, right? You used to live in my balls, dog. Like, this is like, this whole thing. That's from Chappelle. I took that from Chappelle.

But it is like, there are two people who can't do, in the very beginning, especially what you guys are talking about, you can't do very much for themselves. And we're basically like eat and every time and say, oh, I'll do that for you. Yeah, I got you. You can't do it?

Yeah. Come on, I got you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I got it. I'm happy to do it. I'm really excited. Watch this. And then one day you start going on like, okay, I'm doing it. And now look, watch, watch that what daddy did. And you want to try it? And then they do it. And you're like, oh, you see what just happened. You did it, big boy. You did it. Like the joy of seeing your child go from ha to aha.

Yeah. It can't possibly hit them the same. You know what I'm saying? The other way around. Yeah. That's what I mean. It's like it just doesn't seem possible for them to love. Like it doesn't, that's not how the relationship functions. Yeah. In theory. Yeah. I mean, for 18 years, it's one-sided. It's not completely one-sided because, like, my wife is about to have a birthday. And I have to go to the 15-year-old and a 10-year-old, and I say, hey, your mom's going to have a birthday. So you guys have to get her card. You have to be thoughtful and get her a gift, something that you think that she's really going to get.

And I'm going to take you to help you go get it or whatnot. But I need you to start thinking about what do you think mommy's going to get so that it doesn't stay one-sided forever. That you start thinking about that other person and realize, oh, she has wants to. and needs and desires and things that make her happy. It's not just about my own happiness, right? So that's part of our job. Sure. For like 12 years, it's just like, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what, I mean, this episode just made me think about this and, because I think Jack is a great son. And he did his mother a great service. Yeah. And taking her out of that environment

so that she could be the fullness of herself. Sure. Right. Right. He never got a chance to do. be in the same space. Yeah, I think the roles were, were dramatically tainted because of, because of the violence of his father. Sure. Who put, who put, now puts him in a position

that he should never have to be in as a child for his mother, removing her from the house. Yeah. You know, and quote unquote, saving her from that marriage and moving her out. And, and so the, the, I think the, my reaction to the episode on a whole was like different now being being a father in a way where I'm like, I, aside from the physical abuse from the father, I blame nobody for anything that they have done here. I feel you. Like Jack's behavior, Jack's, the way he takes the phone calls, his avoidance of visiting. Like, it all makes sense.

it all, for as much pain as there is, there doesn't seem to be anyone to blame for that portion of it. I don't disagree, but I have a slight pushback. And that pushback is, if you've committed to a call at a certain time a week, your ability to not just take the call, but to be present for it. Now, listen, also to what you're saying, I got three, Yeah. Babies all the same age and they're going crazy.

My wife's trying to do the best she can. I'm trying to support, et cetera. But I'm thinking like if I say I'm going to do this thing, you have to recognize. Now, see, and it's easier to recognize as a parent too. Right. It's like, she's looking forward to this call. You know what I mean?

Right. It's such a way that like, if you go like, all right, I love you, boom. Like it's ending before it even gets a chance to get started. Sure. And that's my gentle. And my, and my, I see what you're talking about. But the thing that I also didn't realize the first time I saw it that I realized this time was that because of the trauma, the abuse that she was put through, she kept things from Jack about her life that maybe she thought he wouldn't want to know. And most of the things she kept from him was her newfound happiness.

Yeah. I actually really like it here. I have a boyfriend. I have a cat. We go out. We have good time. We have. But because of the nature of their relationship, the phone rings.

Yeah, the confines of their relationship existed in such a small way. And it's, hey. You know, and it's not a phone call he looks forward to. There's nothing. There's no hope. Yeah. Because it's not. That's not the precedent that was ever set.

Right. Yeah. And because of. the nature of their relationship, she maybe doesn't want to show him the fullness of her life, which was a robbery of sorts. Yeah. You know, like, it seemed to me that once Jack went there and saw her life and saw her friends and saw her lovely boyfriend and saw like, oh, well, yeah, the kids and I and Rebecca would have loved to have.

to have visited this. I think that's the big tragedy. Because to your point, the only time she came home, the trauma of being in the same city as a man. Which is sort of like she reverted back to. She was like, does he know I'm here? You know what I'm saying? Can you see me?

Did you tell him? I think the great sadness on Jack's part is like, if I came to where she was with these kids. And she was asking, and like I see the ice skates. and she asked. And I came up with all these reasons for why it was too hard and too difficult, et cetera. It definitely makes you think, bro. Yeah, like just take the trip.

Take the trip. Make the trip. Make the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who do you want to start? Go for it. Yeah, we see this like this little version of Jack and a sled on a snowy hill. And he's pulling the sled and he's trying to get down the hill.

and the sled breaks, right? And he goes in and he brings it to his, he like shows it to his mom. And his mom's like, you know, I'll cover for you. I'll buy you a new sled. We're not going to tell your dad about it. And you just see their relationship, right? And it kind of ends with him, like her bringing him in,

caregiving, warming him up and saying, like, I'm going to make you your favorite lunch. Let me get your tomato soup and your hot dogs. And I think this was just to sort of reflect this overall relationship. of like, you know, Jack, we see Jack taking care of her a lot throughout the entirety of this series. And it was just nice to see in this moment of, I'm sure, just Jack looking back on his life, like his mom really cared for him too. And he couldn't remember it.

He couldn't remember it. You know? Yeah. Yeah. He couldn't remember it for most of the episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Until he did. And then he was able to share it with his children, which we're.

get to. Yeah. But it kind of opens up, you know, most of the story is told present day, right? So Jack is looking for a black suit. Rebecca's like, we have gray here. And he's like, no, it's my mom's funeral. It has to be black. Like, very matter of fact, doesn't matter if we, I have to go buy one.

Yeah. I need a black suit for this. I'm not showing up in a sear sucker for mom's funeral. Yeah. And he just kind of confides in her like, this doesn't seem real, which I'm sure, you know, knock on wood. I haven't experienced this yet. That losing a parent, it must just be surreal.

Like, wow, you're floating through space. We find out that Rebecca and the kids are not going. And she, you know, Rebecca sort of insists, like, are you sure the weather's not great? Like, it's a four-hour drive. We're totally willing to come with you. It's your mom's funeral. And he just kind of brushes it off. Like, the kids didn't even really know her.

It's a long drive. Do we really want to try to, like, you know, get the kids all packed up and get in the car? Like, let me just go. Let me do what I have to do. Head down. Basically, like, perfunctory, right? Like, let me check all the boxes and then I'm going to come home, you know. This will lead to where is the second car or how did you get there? Good question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Continue. No, no, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. Just suspend disbelief, right? We'll be right back with more. That was us.

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Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Malmour, Canadian new vehicle total registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. The kids are not phased, by the way, that, like, they come in, like, talking in the kitchen about, like, grandma's dead. She's dead, right? Your mom died.

I don't say that. That's true. Can I, like, side note this? Please. Are you at the, you, have you passed the phase yet where was Barra ever just, like, fascinated with all things, like, who's alive and who's dead? Did you guys ever get through that? The problem with, yeah, we're still in it. Okay. We're in it. We're very deep. in it right now. We're in it right now. That is the only question Gus wants to know. And it all started with me like when I started introducing him to music.

Oh yeah. That's, yeah, yeah. I was like, here's, here's Prince. Here's David Bowie. Is he dead? Yeah. Is he dead? Yeah, he's also dead. Nope, also dead. My favorite thing? Sorry, I got to start introduce you to some musicians who are living. Oh, no. That is. No. Yeah, Bowie died. Recently? No, like, like a decade ago? Yeah.

I know. Yeah, it's a sad one. He was young. Prince, too. I knew, Donald. Well, but it's my, Gus is just like, that is his only prerequisite when we're listening to something. If it's someone he doesn't know, that's the first question he asks.

If he sees a picture of someone, is she dead? I'm like, Jesus. My favorite thing was recently, though. He's like, hey, dad, because he loves the Beatles. He's like, dad, your favorites are John and George, huh? And Taylor's like, yeah, you know. And he's like, well, I like, Paul and Ringo. Hey, why don't we pretend that Ringo and Paul are dead and John and George are

alive, dad. Let's do that. And Taylor's like, no, bud, like, we don't have to pretend anyone's dead. We can pretend your favorites are alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. We can just pretend. And he was telling me that the other day, he's like, Mama, I'm so happy because Paul's still alive. And I love Paul, and Paul's my favorite. I was like, okay, bud, like, I don't like, what five-year-old is. And you just say, at least it's not Ringo. Yeah. Poor Ringo. Like, yeah, so watching the kids in this episode talk about, like, mom's dead, yeah, like, just so cavalier.

Yeah. Like, it's just a fascinating, nonchalant sort of concept to them. Like, anyway, can we go out and play in the snow? Yeah. Like, just moving ahead. Yeah. I mean, I haven't experienced a lot of death in my life. Mm-hmm.

But I remember being a young boy and the woman who raised my dad, my great aunt, my dad's aunt, when she passed and going to a funeral for the first time and crying because adults were crying. But not crying because I understood what was happening. And then there was a party after. And I'm like, okay, there's a part. Okay. So what is this? Yeah. What is this thing?

There's a party after. The wick. Yeah. There's a party. There's music. There's music. What are we doing here? And, you know, this woman who I'd met maybe a handful of times, you know, I must have been six years old when she passed, you know, and she had a tracheotomy.

And I think still smoked. Oh, geez. Yeah, it was like. Wow. Yeah, probably. But yeah. And then I remember it was also an open casket at a Catholic, at a Catholic cathedral in the Bay Area. and we walked by and this was gone.

The tracheotomy hole was gone. And I was like, and in my head, I'm like, oh, well, wait, wait. Maybe she can't wait, no, but the thing is, if it's, but you know, in my brain, yeah, you know, a miracle has happened. It's just, yeah, it's an odd, it's an odd thing. And I guess it's, it's what, the age of innocence is seven, right? this is as far as the philosophical idea of those things go. And it's where the human brain can truly understand the nature of, for lack of a better summation.

Because up until then, it's, you know, our next, I told you, last time our next neighbor passed away. Yeah, Judson, Judson's dead. Yeah, he died. So he's, where is he in the ground? I don't, I don't know. I don't know, buddy. And you just don't want him to be like talking about it too loud in the backyard where Judson's family.

Judson's wife can hear over the fence, you know. So, yeah. But I also don't ever want to, I kind of like it. Make a taboo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, bud. Judson died.

He was very, he died from being sick. Well, he was just, he was, yes, in a way. Like, it's, I don't know, it's hard to explain, but yeah, the delivery of the children in this show of like, yeah, grandma's dead. Yeah, dad's mom died. Yeah. Only Randall was like, don't say that.

He's like, oh, it's true. He's dead. She died. She died, died, dead. Dead died dead. Right? Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying?

He's like, yeah, but yeah, her mother's passed on. Yeah. So he goes. He goes. She was staying with her cousin, Deborah. Yeah, living, living with her. Living. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And played by the incomparable. Cameron Mannheim.

Another TV legend. Fellow NYU grad school grad. She's so rad. Can I just like side note? Yeah. I loved being around her. She is like one of those people who is so familiar. Like, you know what I mean? In the best way. Like, so comfortable in her skin, comfortable with who she is. She's lived a million lives. She knows how. and bad as she is. Like, I just soaked up every second of being around her. And I just had one tiny little scene, but I was like, ooh, you, like, you would be fun to work with long term. She was one of those people where I picked up on that. Like, oh, you're a fun friend. She's a great mom. She, like, talk so glowingly about her son. Her son's kind of the mom. Yeah, her son's really cool.

He's pretty dope. Yeah, yeah. But it was, like, even before he was, like, really working. Like, she's just was mom. And yeah, I was, I just, I loved being around her. And she is so warm and gregarious and open, like, watching this, like, she was. She slapped on some toad. She had some real, like, she gave it to Jack like nobody. She had some feelings about him. Yeah. And I love that, like, she wasn't, you know, welcoming him with open arms. It was, she was discerning. And, like, I got it. Like, I handled it. Yeah. I knew Marilyn.

Yeah. And what she loved. And, like, I got it. Yeah. You don't need to waltz in here and handle the services. I own a flower shop. Like, we quickly got a real lay of the land from her. Definitely.

The thing that tinges all of it is, like, where were you? Like, you show up now. Now. Now. Right? Where she's been here for, was it, 13 years? And now you're here. Like that's the sort of underbelly.

Took you long enough, right? The fact that this one is probably, like, because we learned from the boyfriend. I don't want you to have to. Go ahead. Yeah. Keep going. Well, he basically is like, like, I'm got it, but like I am here to help plan the service.

And she's like, no, it's all done. And he's like, oh, well, thank you. She's like, I didn't do it. Your mom did it. Yeah. I mean, you could see that hit Jack, that information. Like, my mom planned all of this. I was like, yeah.

Why is that news to you? Like, this is who your mom was. Yeah. And if you really want to get into, like, brass tacks, I own a flower shop. So obviously, I'm going to handle all the flowers. And I'm going to read a poem because I, you know, I like, she loved poetry. She loved poetry. She wanted me to write more poetry.

And he was like, what? My mom liked poetry. Like, who was this person? Yeah. And again, it's just like more information and kind of watching Debbie, like. Cat, boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're learning all. It's like, wow, this woman had a very full life here. Yeah. And she had this cute little cat. She had a boyfriend, Mike. So anyway, he sees the cat. And he's like, is this her cat? Like, who's this cat? And Debbie's like, no, that's, you know, the cat belongs to Mike now. So he lives down the street. You'll see his van down the road. And he's like, Mike is.

Yeah. Your mom's boyfriend. Like, wow, you really know nothing about her. Yeah. She just like continues to be more and more. disgusted with him. She said, before he takes a cat back, she said, there's one thing you can be responsible for, you can do the eulogy. I think he can pick out a dress for it to be in, you know what I'm saying?

You want to do that and you can do the eulogy. He's like, all right, I can do that, right? So, picks up the cat. By the way, be very tough for Brown, allergic to cats. Oh. Very, very allergic to cats. I don't know.

I know. I have to take like a claritin before I come over to the crib. But he just picks up the cat goes over. And we meet Mike. What's my name? Jim Cody Williams. Hey man, let me tell you.

Jim Cody Williams, crushed it. My man stuck his foot in this shit. Yeah, he did. Out of nowhere. He's great. He was so warm, so inviting, so quirky, but just lovely. He didn't look anything like Stanley. Nope.

You know what I mean? Like, shout out to Josh for casting or not. Like, he killed it. And Jim Cody, you know, you don't grow that beard overnight. No, you don't. Jim Cody He's been living with that one. Lives that life.

That is a lifestyle that I respect. Yeah, that is a choice. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, there was such a, like, immediate warmth to him and a heartbreak. Yeah. All, there were so many colors there when he opens the door and meets Jack. He's nervous.

He's, you know, in the midst of just abject grief. And he's not just nervous. He's honest about it. about it. Yeah. Which is... Sorry, man, I'm nervous. So unique. Sorry, I'm nervous. It hits him with that hug. Yeah. Did the vinyl hit him? Well, okay. Yeah. Totally. He's, and he's literally, he's literally the exact opposite of every single thing about Stans. Yeah. Absolutely. There's also, what do we learn? Your mom talked about you and the kids all the time. That was what I was going to say before. Like, so he's entering into it with a level of familiarity. to Jack that Jack is not... He asks. How were Rebecca in the kids?

How are they taking the death? And he's like, how do you know my wife and children? Yeah. Their existence. The triplets. Wow. How do you... Yeah.

Like, he just... He had it all down. Yeah. Yeah, it's really got to be so confusing to, like, step into a situation where someone knows so much about you in your life. Yeah. And you're not given the opportunity. You're not afforded the same opportunity.

You mean like every time you step outside? You run into your friends? I mean, yeah, Sterling. Stop! Don't you turn this on me, Amanda Lee? I was just writing down all the things that he found out, like that she had a boyfriend named Mike, her sense of humor, how she loved to laugh,

that she liked poetry and talked about Jack and his family all the time, and that she was happy. Happy. Happy. He never got a chance to know his mom. Happy. He saw some photos. He was happy.

You know, Mike had some photos of her, and in all of the photos, she's smiling and laughing. Latter just going back. And Mike's going, that is so Maryland. That's so Marilyn. And Jack is like, what? What? Yeah, you knew a completely different woman than I knew and that I grew up with. They go to the bar and in Maryland's honor, her drink of choice.

Seven and seven. Seven and seven. Seagram Seven. Yeah. Which is what? Seagram seven is a whiskey. It's like a super sweet whiskey. Okay.

But you mix it with... Don't you judge her dream. But you mix it with seven up. That sounds so sweet. It just sounds like a sugar bomb. And it is. And that's the point. And when you drink it, it's like...

It'll still get the job down. It's like Sunday morning. Let me tell you. Let me tell you something about... Let me tell you something about drinking seven and sevens at casinos way off the strip in Las Vegas. Was it seven and seven a go-to at one point? The first time I sat down at a blackjack table, it was. Really?

Yeah, with my fake ID. Seven and sevens for the night. I love it. I was like, these are free? I'm glad I'm here at the dollar table. Not to go too deep on the earth. Do you have a drink of choice? Are you just like a wine woman?

I will have a glass of wine. And if I'm going to have a cocktail, which I don't really most of the time, it would be a gin martini. A gin martini. Yeah. Something drier, not sweets. No, not sweet. sweet. No, no, I'm not a sweet. I like a chocolate chip cookie. I like my sweet sweet, but I don't want my alcohol sweet. And I find out I just like, I think like most people,

not to go down a rabbit hole, but I'm like, I think I'm like getting closer and closer to not drinking. Giving it up. Not giving it up, but just like, I love the occasional glass of wine, but like whenever I've had a cocktail, I'd say, in the last like year, I'm, I've never been hungover before, but like I do. I'm like, oh, I just like, it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good. I went to my buddy's birthday party and there was a lot of like, we went to a whiskey bar and like, you know, this much stuff. Like, I realize how much of a lightweight I am. And like it takes a long time to sip through it because the proof of it is probably close to 100. Like it's, it's intense, man. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I will have a margarita and I can nurse that margarita

pretty much like the whole night. And I'm pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I was hung over for 16 years. It doesn't feel good, I hear. It's awful. Every time you talk about who you,

I wonder, I truly do wonder what it would have been like to have met you. Then. At that point. I mean, it wasn't. I was wrong. I was still awesome. I was a good time. No, I'm sure you were a great time.

Oh, boy. I bet you were a great time. The ideas that would come up Throughout the course of the night, I'd be like, oh, yeah, let's go do that. That was fun. We went and did things. I'm sure you did. Yeah.

Yeah. The night that Mandy Moore went out with me and Justin or whatnot. That was fun. I had a martini that night. Yeah, you did. You did have a martini. That's enough to it. It also felt appropriate.

I'm sitting there in, like, costume and age prosthetics. Like, Rebecca would have a martini too. For shizzle. She's a gin martini girl. Let's be real. Copy that. Copy that. So they're sitting there.

they're having seven and sevens. Jack joins them at the table. And there's that incredible eternal sunshine shot. Yeah, man. It's a beautiful moment of just watching everybody at the table and we're circling around the table. And when we come back to where Jack was sitting instead of Jack being there, it's Marilyn. And she's laughing and being amongst her friends and just enjoying the moment and it circles back and it's Jack sitting there, just quiet.

Taking it all in. Sort of realizing they're like, oh my God, like there's this whole thing that I just missed. Yeah, right in front of me. And he goes home. He, I think Deborah had told, like, he had asked if his dad was coming to the funeral, and she's like, I didn't invite him, right? So he goes home and we know Jack is, you know,

with alcohol, doesn't always make the best decisions, what have you. Also, I just like, it's, I appreciate that we, like, showed it as it is. And I also am so happy that like every time somebody gets behind the wheel and they do make it home, I just like, I just want to highlight, please don't drink and drink and drive. That's my little PSA for that. He makes it home. He picks up the phone, he calls his dad, and he tells her like she's dead, man.

You know, and like I missed out on so much of who she was, and I blame you for it. Yeah. Right? Like, she was so terrified of you, like, couldn't come and visit or what have you. But it's also sort of a way in his drunkenness of excusing himself to a certain extent. Yeah. You know? So he tells him and Stanley's like, you don't, he's like, dude, that was my wife.

Like he was for Clint. He felt it. He wanted to sort of pay his respects. And he's like, don't come to the funeral. He's like, that was my wife. You don't get to tell me what to do, right? So they sort of leave it at a stalemate, not knowing if he's going to come to the funeral or not. He winds up telling cousin Deb, like, I told my dad, she's like, come on, man.

Yeah, is he coming? Is he coming? He's like, I don't know. I don't know. So we're at the homegoing, as we call them in the community, but we're at the funeral. And Jack, you can tell, because Jack calls Rebecca as well. And, oh, because he is finally going to pick out a dress for her to wear. And something catches his eye under the bed.

And it's box and in the box are three pairs of ice gates, they say Kevin, Kate, and Randall. And, you know, she has sort of throughout. the episode. We, you know, kind of, we can get into some of the past storylines as well. But throughout the episode, she's sort of, you know, told Jack and mentioned a few times that there's this, like, frozen pond, and she really has these dreams of, like, the kids coming to visit, and they can skate on this pond, and, you know, she's gone ahead and bought these ice skates, and they're sitting in a box under her bed. And he calls Rebecca, and it's just basically, like, you know, he has to write a eulogy.

He's having a tough time like he has nothing to say. And, you know, so then, yes, we get to the service. Debbie's called up to read her poem and she does. And then Jack is called up to, you know, eulogize his mother. And as an audience, I'm thinking, what's he going to say? I forget. I'm like, I don't remember how this ends. And he seems to have not like, you know,

we've seen him go visit the diner where Mike and his mom met. And he's kind of like put himself in these different situations, I think, to try to figure out how to break this spell and start to write something about his mom. And in typical Jack Pearson fashion, he waltzes up to the podium, the lectern and, you know, talks about the house they grew up in wasn't a happy one. Yeah. Right? But I think he really found his voice when you came in. Yes. When you and the kids surprised him and came into the back of the church and sat down.

Yeah, you hear the door open. You're like, oh, is it Stanley? Yeah. Who's showing up? Real quick, this side expectation of, is Stanley coming or not? You know, the mistake was made earlier in the episode by Marilyn, where she tells Jack, I called your dad. You know, and it was, and does he know where you live?

And this idea of Jack, Jack even says it. He goes, even when you're not here, you're here. You know, and this ghost of the possibility of you is even enough to ruin everything. Yeah. You know, I thought, and that was more prevalent for me this time watching than the first time where she makes the mistake. He also calls him and then now. the shadow over this whole thing is, is Stanley going to come or not?

Until Rebecca takes four-hour cab ride. It's funny. I feel like I did have this very question to Isaac and Elizabeth, and I don't remember what the answer was. They said, why don't you shut up and do your job? Yeah.

Stop asking questions. That's enough questions out of you. Yeah. It was like, Miguel drove them, lent his car, something. I was like, and they all. Shut up. Mandate.

You're fired. Do you want to be in the episode or not? Shut up before we put on the prosthetics. There was some sort of answer kind of like, you know, given of like, we hadn't thought of that. At the end of the day. It doesn't really matter. Listen, if they're asking that question where you haven't done our job sort of situation.

There you go. You never heard of a bus? Four hours. What, you never heard of a bus? He's written the bus before. Excuse me, I'm looking for an Afro-American. Yeah, Afro-American. So, yeah, Jack admits that the house he grew up and wasn't an easy place to be a son or a mother, but they did their best.

And they're really lucky because they got out. And, you know, even though a part of you never gets out, like never escapes that place. And if you're lucky, you learn to build a new and better house. And that's when, you know, Rebecca and the kids enter. And I think it gives them the strength to really sort of like see the fuller, bigger picture. And, you know, he ends. Appreciating the people that were able to contribute for that better life for his mom. Yes.

Because he says, there's four people here, my wife and my three kids that were able to make a better life and a better home for me. And Debbie and Mike and all of her friends and community. I've been able to contribute to create a better life for my mom. And he was very appreciative and grateful for that. And then he finished by saying, Don't let me keep you. Okay, mom. Which is what, yeah.

Don't let me keep you. Which is what his mom used to say during their Sunday phone calls every week. Because she could tell that he was trying to get off the phone. He was bothered. He was bothered. Why are you taking? I'm taking my time right now. I have three children that are the same age.

You know what I hate more is when people, someone at the phone says, okay, well, I'll let you go. As if I have asked to be let go. Remind me never to say that. I definitely say that. Do you? I will not say that. All right, well, there you go.

Well, there you go. You want to go? Maybe. I think that we as a present society. Real quick, have you heard, have you heard, Pee-Hermans. Let me let you let me go. Let me let me let me go.

You know what? Let me let you let me go. It's so good. It's good. Anyways, go on. But in earnest to that very comedic take, I think we do have a bit of an attention deficit disorder. Like as people.

And our ability to actually just be with the people that we're with is something that we're losing the art of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have computers in our faces all day. Tiny little computers that are made to distract us. We forget, like, you know, my brother and I were talking about this the other day.

Like, what is the greatest gift that you can give to another human being, and it is your time, but not if it is spent constantly warning or thinking about doing something else. Yeah. Right? Absolutely. So in that time is also your presence, presence being a gift. And it was, I know, just good lesson for me. Because like, E, without saying cast the first stone, I'm not throwing stones

at people that I wouldn't throw at myself too. Like, I catch myself being like, oh, I'm not really here in this particular moment. I should take a moment and just be here. Yeah. Right. And that the beauty of the end of the episode is that they're at the house and they're sort of catching up with everybody, and he sees the box of ice skates,

and Rebecca clocks him clocking the skates, and they look at each other, and they're like, yeah. And the kids get to go out to that lake that is frozen over and skate. With Debbie and Mike. And Mike is so cute with them. He's like showing him the little wrestling moods. Mike is like Miguel to my kids.

Ah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they never really got a chance to know Stanley, you know what I'm saying? that way and so like they get yeah yeah yeah it was it was very very sweet we met Mike too late because Mike could have he could have been more in the show yeah he's great like if he had showed up yeah and became like Jack's surrogate father or something yeah um and I think this is where Jack they get

home after their long drive yeah and bus ride um and they have a Jack is like what do you guys want for dinner And he's like, how about? Wait. What? First, I have to comment on the writers doing Kate dirty. In one way? It is so subtle. Everybody walks in the house.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Everybody walks in the house. And Jack goes, you guys hungry? And the two boys go, yeah, yeah. And Kate walks past camera and goes, I could eat. And it is so cold. to give to the little girl after everything

the goddamn show's been through. I didn't even clucked. I totally clucked. She shrugs. I totally cried. And she got directed perfectly. She goes, I could eat. And it's just like, what?

I was like, what the f? I missed that. I totally. I clacked that too. I missed it. That's not right. And if it was an improv, they should have used the dinner one.

No, it was not an improv. She got directed. taught her to like it was directed she nailed it oh that was funny no I missed that but I think it's because Jack has in mind like I'm going to do something

to honor my mom yeah I'm gonna make this meal that she said was my favorite as a kid and I have this vague recollection of hot dogs and tomato soup yeah so he you see him opening the the Campbell soup and cutting up some hot dogs. And the kids are so funny because they're sort of like, where's the butt?

Yeah. Which I feel like that's what I would hear at my house too. Like, yeah, just eat it. And he's looking at his kids eating the soup and the hot dogs and he excuses themselves to go. And enjoying it. And enjoying it. And they're happy. It's been, you know, it's been a long, hard day. Yeah. And he excuses himself to the other room. And Rebecca kind of follows. And it's the first time he sort of breaks down. He says, I don't have a mom. I don't have a mom.

That got me. Yeah. That got me. It got me in the moment. It got me again when I was watching it. There was something, too, the way that this whole moment unfolds for me, too, that was a real statement about grief, the way men grieve. Yeah. The way they're allowed to grieve.

And how, because he says, he looks at you. He says, I don't have a mom anymore. He fully sobbed. then also, you know, the way men... He puts themselves right back together. Turn themselves to their wives who sometimes become moms to us. Yep. Zips it up.

And goes and sits back down with this family. And the two of them go sit back down with the kids and soldier on. Yeah. Which is both admirable and unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for him to be like, all right, let me go get back. I had my moment.

These kids. I broke. And now I'm going to put it back together and go face the reality of what my life is right now. And it was the shot of it, the direction of that moment, because they don't cut away, right? They just follow you guys from one room to the next. And as they pass the dark hallway, you come back in the kitchen. It's like, hey. Yeah.

And we're back to kids, none the wiser. Yeah. Right? Yep. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, I can remember only one time. Just Sorry

I can't let it go I could eat Just gave it right to her And she had no idea what she was doing I could eat Five seasons of pain And just a lifetime of struggle More that was us

After this short break Two and five Canadians will hear the words You have cancer That's why every step and dollar-raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar-raised math. matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.

I remember my mom crying when my dad died, but not too much before. before then, right? So she was sort of like the one that was trying to kept it together and then allowed herself grief, right? And I remember as a kid thinking like, all right, because I'm 10, almost 11. I was like, all right, she gets to grieve. I was like, let mom have her time.

And I'll try to hold it down. It was a really interesting thought process. Like, I was like, there's this thought process at 10 that was like, all right, only one person gets. gets to do this at a time. I don't know where I even came from. It's weird. I remember.

I mean, I think that that's not untrue. I think that that's a human survival mechanism. Yeah. It's like, all right, if we all are going to have to do this at some point, we should probably do it one at a time. Yeah, we can't all crumble. I guess so. But for a child to make that realization.

It was interesting. But not to make it about this, but I just remember this one in particular. So the aftermath of it, if he was at home with his mom, whatnot, you know, people bring food and they sort of just, you know, I'm sorry for your loss of everything. And you're like, you look at the food and you're like, oh, this is cool.

I'm happy to have the food. But I also remember people being like, how, how are you? You okay? Like, is it going to be all right? And I was like, yeah, I'm good. Like, there's this feeling of like, I don't even think it was infantilizing so much as like trying to check in. But the way that people check.

with kids was not a way that I, and I've seen Andrew look at people like this. I feel like, I understand words. You can just use the words. Like, you don't have to do this thing. Right. And be like, oh, goodness. He's like, no, no, you can just talk to me. You can talk to me like this, right?

And I'll be okay. Grief, I think, is so scary for people. Yeah. Especially other people's grief. When I'm grieving, I know what to do with it. Sure. 100%. When other people are grieving,

folks around. I have a hard time, Chris, I have a hard time. Knowing how to be helpful? Yeah, I short circuit. I can't even, right now in this conversation, talk to you about it. Yeah. And so there's, there's, it's, it's a real art. It is.

Like, it's a real art for him. A friend of mine is a death dula. Like my girl from dying to, dying for sex. Yeah. Paul O'Pell. Shout out, Paula Pell. Yeah. And I sent him that scene from, and he's like,

like, this is the most perfect thing I've ever seen. Perfect. Because the ability to sit with someone who is in grief or who is going through something like that is a skill. It is a real skill to sit, to not just sympathize, but to empathize and to exist in that space. Sometimes it's not about doing.

It's about being, right? Just being there. Like the greatest sense of comfort I It was like when friends of mine knew how I was feeling, they didn't have to like do anything. They're just like, all right, well, we just sat there and waited for me. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Very, very cool. Yeah. So, good episode. Oh, yeah? Let's hear it. Yeah, let's hear it. Let's listen to this voice now from Ilan. It's the writer of the episode.

We've had Alon on the pod. We have. What's he got to share? Yes, gentlemen, our friend and yours, Elon Must I. Hey, it's Ilan Mastai. I hear you're on episode. episode 604, which is an episode that I wrote. So here are two memories and, you know, just like a little bit of tea. As a Canadian, when I wrote an entire episode set during a blizzard, I mean, that didn't seem like such a big deal to me.

But, of course, we shot it in the middle of a heat wave in Los Angeles. So our crew had to fake all the snow scenes, obviously. But more than that, they had to build a frozen pond that you could actually skate on in the Santa Clarita Mountains when it was like a hundred-degree. out. And I remember the magic of watching them feed these 300 pound blocks of ice through a chipper to spray with a hose over the barren desert hills and thinking, we have the best

crew in television. My second memory, shooting the final scene when Jack steps away from the kids at the kitchen table and says to Rebecca, I don't have a mom anymore. For me, something Dan Fogelman and I,

unfortunately have in common. is we both lost our moms to cancer. My mother passed away when I was in my 20s. And I channeled all of that grief and shock and regret and loss and heartbreak into writing this episode. And I remember how electric the set felt and sitting at the monitors with our director, Jessica You, watching Milo's incredible performance. But most of all, I remember crew members coming up to me

to tell me how much this episode affected them, and especially that line of dialogue. Some had lost parents years or even decades ago, some more recently, and it really hit home. We're a crew, and we work very hard, but we're also people going through the ups and downs of life, just like the characters on the show, and I never felt closer to everyone than I did in that moment.

We all felt like we were making something really special with this one, so much so. And here's the T that I don't think any of the key that I don't think any, really knows. At one point, Dan turns to me and says, I think this could be the spin-off. So, okay, the idea that we could launch a new series off the characters in 604, including Emmy-winning actress Cameron Mannheim as Cousin Debbie, you know, these characters related to the Pittsburgh Pearson's, but whoever had their own drama and history and future, it was obviously, you know, pretty intriguing. I actually ended up putting up, you know, a bunch of work into mapping

out with a spin-off could look like. You know, ultimately, though, Mr. Daniel Fogelman, in his infinite wisdom, decided this as us should end on its own terms properly and definitively. And, you know, as much as the fans, and I mean, let's be honest, the network would have loved a spin-off. It would take away from what we were trying to accomplish with the show and the emotional impact of the finale. So, you know, goodbye to the much, much larger house I could be living in right now.

But it was obviously the right decision, and I'm just so proud of what we all pulled off with this episode. What incredibly articulate, man, Ilanis. He should be a writer. That's hilarious. That is some real tea. I never heard that. I had neither. I mean, real inside baseball right there.

Yeah. I had heard at one point in time when Chrissy and I went to go visit the old house and the Indian family that was living in the house, that there was a possibility of spinning. that off? Yeah. So I think, like, I think because the network was probably just been like,

so, is it really old? The network was constantly going, is that it's been off? Can you give us something? What about that? Um, what about, what about sidewalk chalk?

That's so, that's, but that's really, it's so true that I don't think we often take the time to acknowledge is like, we are a well-oiled,

we were, a well-oiled machine, our crew, our incredible crew. Still got them, man. I know, you still got most of them over there. And to,

to, you know, that like we are not immune to the stories we are lucky enough to have been able to tell, right? And that while we were living this work and telling these stories, it couldn't help but, you know, force us to sort of acknowledge the similarities in our own lives. And that's like, yeah, that's a really beautiful message that he sent. how close he felt to the crew. And I will echo that, yes, the heat wave and the Santa Clarita Mountains while we were shooting that, the ice skating. So people were bundled up?

Yeah. And it's a hundred. Yeah. Did the ice cool things off? Not really. I was in that giant wool coat and a bray. And like, it was, it was warm. Guys, I've gotten to the point now at night.

Like, so Ryan's out of town and Amari gets in bed with me to cuddle. I give you about five minutes, bro. Your little body is too hot. Yeah, it's like a hot water bottle. I was like, big boy, I got a... Yeah. Sweet. Wants to cuddle, though.

Coats and stuff, 100. Oh. Yeah, it was pretty Ms. We got dope crew. We have the best. Yeah, the best. The best. The absolute best, man.

It is. And then speaking to just like, what he was talking about when, when crew gets affected, like, I think the best compliments that I ever. get is if camera props, anybody says like, hey, man. That was great. What you did the other, that one was. And you're like, yeah. Okay.

Thanks, guys. Those are the real, those are the real where someone takes a minute out of like wrapping a wire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, by the way. What? Yeah, totally. Totally, totally. It feels good.

That means the most. You're like, okay, I did something right. Yeah. So that was, I mean, that's a break of sorts from the, the major narrative of the show, but what a beautiful break. What a poignant, heartfelt. These are always my favorite episodes.

When we deviate and tell one story about one particular, very specific part of our show. Yeah. And this was important. I feel like it gave so much color to, you know, a beloved character like Jack. This was a whole other side of him and getting to know him through getting to know his mother

after the fact was... Shout out Ventimilian, man. Seriously. Shout out, Milo. Well done. Yeah, this was one of those stellar episodes. For sure. In the canon.

That's dope. Is that what else? All right, we've got a fan segment. We got a fan segment. Let's call someone. Yeah. Stay tuned for more. That was us.

Earlier this week, we received an email from a listener, Jennifer, who wrote in about watching her father grieved the loss of his mother when she was just 10 years old. She'd never lost a parent herself, but seeing her. her dad go through that experience, changed the way she understood him. And years later, a moment between Jack and Rebecca and This Is Us brought all of those memories rushing back to her. So today we're giving Jennifer a call to talk about the episode, Don't Let Me Keep You, and the line that hit her hardest. The line being, I don't have a mom anymore. And what it was like realizing that even the people who take care of us are still someone's child, too.

Shall we give her a call? Hello, this is Jenny. Jenny, this is Sterling, Chris, and Mandy. How are you? Good. How are y'all? Doing great. You prefer Jenny over Jennifer, just making sure?

Oh, yes. Jenny is good. I'll answer to Jennifer. Yeah, it took my dad like 20 years to introduce me as Jenny. Yeah. And I love a y'all. Where are we calling from? Where are you from?

Yeah. I live in Denver, but I grew up in Houston. So I have to keep my y'all with me. Age time. Yeah. Yes, man. Yes. Yeah.

I think y'all is one of the English language's most perfect words. I love y'all. Me too. It's inclusive. It's perfect. Yeah. It hits every buck. It feels good to say, y'all.

Absolutely. What up, y'all? And then when you hit in all y'all, that's like, Oh, y'all. Jenny, you speak in my language. All y'all. All y'all is hilarious. Exactly.

It's perfect. So you sent us an email about the episode that we were talking about today and about a certain line and how it related to an experience in your life. And maybe you could tell us a little bit about that experience. So I will start off by saying that I have never lost a parent, but I have watched both of my parents lose their parents throughout various parts of my life. And each experience was a little bit different. But my dad, for this to really come full circle, for me, my dad, like, Jack Pearson is based on him. Congratulations. Lucky you.

I mean, honestly, just 10 out of 10, he's, like, the best guy ever. So he was an only child, grew up in a military family, super strict, serious father, like, really fun, loving, sweet mom. and kind of rejected the rigidity, I think, of his dad's attitude and wanted to kind of do his own thing. He's, like, the most hardworking person, I know. He always told me growing up, like, he knew he may never be the smartest person in the room or the most talented, but you could always work harder than anyone else in the room. And so that was, like, how he lived his life. He met my mom at the gym.

He asked her out to lunch. And after one day, he told everyone in his office that he had just met the woman he was going to marry. And during that meal, my mom had also told him that she got back together with an old boyfriend. But he was not deterred. Love it. He said, what's your man got to do with me? Yeah. Yeah, no, he's like, okay.

Let's hang out still. So they've been married for 38 years. And he's just the most devoted. dad to me and my sister showed up at every game, practiced with us, even though neither of us showed any athletic promise. And me and him, we went to the same breakfast place every Saturday when I was in high school, and that was like a tradition of ours. So, like, he's truly just devoted.

He also has dark hair and used to sport a killer mustache back in the 80s. And it is just Jack Pearson to a tea. Yes. So my dad lost his father before I was born, but his mother passed away when I was in fourth grade. And she was so fun. She would like let you do the things you could never do at home. I would eat an entire store-bought bag of reason that with the movies. You know, things that were definitely not flying in my household.

She was letting slide, but she was pretty sick towards the end of her life. So I don't think she made it easy on my... mom who was kind of tasked with taking care of her. I think she really just wanted my dad around who was very busy at the time with his career that was like sustaining our family and her care. And so when she died, I was 10 years old and I just remember that feeling of like seeing my dad and really sensing like he's going through something that I do not understand. So there's that scene in the episode where Jack told Rebecca, I don't have a mom anymore. And I was just so struck by that.

It really transported me back to that time when my dad, he was still my dad, but I think I was realizing for the first time that he was also someone's child and like a child who is now without parents and he didn't have siblings. and so seeing him more as like, oh, she's like on his own in this experience. And so I think that's a concept that is still hard for me to grasp at 31, but even more difficult when I was 10. So it's just one of those first of many times, I think, in life, where you begin to see your parents' humanity and think of them as outside of yourself.

But this episode has always really resonated with me and I think about it a lot because I feel like it stands on its own as a story. So it just really stuck with me. Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. That's really beautiful. It had transported me back in time. It's also just like the contextualizing of a human life. Like we tend to think of people as one thing is how they relate to us, right?

Like that's your dad. Yeah. But he's also somebody else's child. Yeah. And we forget that. Like, I don't even know if my kids are always fully cognizant of it themselves, right? It's a challenging concept to grasp at that age. I think it is the nature of youth that most things relate to how they affect you, how they relate to you.

And then it takes a little bit of time to recognize it like, oh, I'm not the sinner, but everybody is a center of the own thing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And how do you think, as you were watching your dad go through that, there's, we talk about, we talk about. about it here on the show for like there is such great value in in allowing our children to witness our grief or our or even our flaws or any of those things but it's hard to not um uh cross a cross a line where you where your children end up taking care of you or or attending your feelings and and so i'm wondering how that experience was for you and him as he was going through that

Yeah, I would say my parents have always been really fabulous at being the adults. I have a lot of friends where I don't think that's their experience. They do, like you're saying, end up kind of crossing that boundary of, like, feeling responsible. I will say I'm very lucky in that regard, but I feel like my parents are pretty rock solid. I remember I was, like, shocked when I was young, where my sister and I were like, when did you guys talk about that? And they were like, we talk about a lot of stuff without you guys around. And that was like, shocking.

Shocking. What are you mean? And now as I'm an adult, I'm like, oh, my God, of course they were not like making decisions with us all the time. I think when he was going through that, it was just knowing that it, like, I think my mom did a good job of being like it has nothing to do with you guys. Like, it's not about you guys. Like you can be there for him and like make sure. you know, he loves, like, you love him, but, um, like, he's sad and, like, it's okay that he's sad for this time period while he's going through it.

That's a good mom. Yeah. You got good parents, yeah. They're both, like, so stellar. I don't know how I looked out. I love you. I love. Well, thank you so much for sharing your email and for telling us the story and for just

rocking with us in our little show, man. We appreciate the love and wishing you all the best in Denver. It's mile high. Stay hydrated. You live there, so you know, better. Stay hydrated. And don't forget, stay hydrated. Everyone is dying of heat stroke.

I did make a promise to myself that if I was ever to chat with y'all that I would bring up Chris Sterling, if you have not seen Mandy Moore in Saved, You're missing, like, a key component. Jennifer, first of all, how dare you? Jenny, I love you. You're so sweet. We've absolutely seen saved. It is one of my comfort movies, never fails to make me laugh. Seeing you through a Bible at the one never gets old.

One of the first things, one of the first things Sterling said today was, maybe you should make a sequel to Saved. It was. Oh, my God. Mani Moore, rocking the fundamentalist Christian. It was like, maybe more, you're familiar with this world. Oh, nice. A little bit.

Thank you. That is very kind of you. Thanks for schooling us, Jenny. We appreciate it. Thank you all so much. Thanks for bringing Pop-Tarts back on the map. You know, just really appreciate it. Yeah, make sure, hey, you got to get your protein somewhere.

Exactly. Please. That's number one. Five grams of protein. Go for it. God bless. Have a good one. Take it easy.

Thank you all so much. Bye. Bye. She was great. She's cool. I like Jenny. Another episode. Oh, yeah.

Another episode in the can. A great one. A great one. Another great one. Another stellar episode. Another one that was recorded and released. 604. 14 more.

Yeah. We'll throw some chats in. You know what I'm saying? Some interviews. If you guys have ideas or thoughts about chats that you would like us to engage. Send them our way. Please send them our way. Yeah, we need to do a chat with us on parenting.

I feel like that's been well-established. That would be an organic point. We talked about the marriage thing and maybe bringing our partners in. I put everybody on the couch with me. If you guys like, because I know you like your chairs. I like the couch.

No, you don't. Yeah, I do. Do you really? Yeah. My booty's warm. So is mine. Trust me. It's not any dryer over here.

And it's not because I don't like the case because it's warm in LA. It is warm in LA right now. And just so you guys know, when we record, even on a TV show, you have to turn the AC off because the AC makes too much noise. So we're sweating.

So I hope you feel bad for us. Don't forget to like and subscribe. Smash that subscribe button. Share an episode with a friend. Watch us a day early on Hulu. And as we always say at the end of these episodes, I could eat. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios

and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us. That was a headgum podcast. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

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