That Was Us - New Parents | "The Ride" with Director Jon Huertas (509)

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re breaking down This Is Us Season 5, Episode 9: “The Ride.” As new parents bring their babies home, the episode explores the fears, hopes, and expectations that come with the start of a new chapter for every Pearson family. Across timelines, it’s a reminder that the ride home is where everything begins. In this episode, the hosts chat about: * Sharing their own stressful ride-home and early parenting experiences * The emotional chaos of bringing newborns home across timelines * Jack and Rebecca’s trip home with the triplets * Jack’s anxiety about becoming his father, including the gas station confrontation and his admitted drink * Kevin and Madison navigating paparazzi and the pressure of new parenthood * Kevin’s dream conversation with Jack and his spur-of-the-moment proposal * Kate and Toby bringing home Hailey and Ellie backing out of the open adoption arrangement * Toby revealing that he’s been fired * Future Deja arriving at Randall’s home pregnant and the show’s seamless casting continuity Plus, Jon Huertas joins the podcast to talk about: * Directing “The Ride” during COVID * His transition from actor to director * What he finds most fulfilling about directing * The preparation that set him up for success behind the camera * Fun memories directing Mandy Moore, Chris Sullivan, and Sterling K. Brown That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Thanks to Article for sponsoring this podcast! Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://www.article.com/discount/twu and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. - Don’t just take my word for it – go grab one for yourself. Head to Walmart today to try a bar or stock up on 4 cartons of your favorite flavors, like Blueberry Pie and Salted Peanut Butter, sold exclusively at Walmart. Check out https://Walmart.com to find a store near you! - Right now, go to https://Quince.com/twu for free shipping and 365-day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada, too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. On today's episode of That Was Us, we are diving into season five, episode nine, The Ride. As new parents bring their babies home, this episode explores the fears, hopes, and expectations that come with the start of a new chapter for every Pearson family. Across timelines, it's a reminder that the ride home is where everything begins. Oh, it's a good one. What's a good one? It's a good one. It is a good one.

And it's chaotic, psychotic. I'll start with this one. I never got a chance to do the ride home. Oh, because you were already at home. Because they were both born at the house. Can I tell you? What? The ride home is stressful.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even though we're grown adults who have had driver's license is for many moons. Yeah. You know, in our case, it was my husband, behind the wheel. I'm in the back with the baby, and every time you're just sort of like, careful about that right you, you're just like just being a real backseat driver. Did it become less with each baby?

Yes. And also, I think for us, I'm not sure. They look at the baby drive home. Yeah, yeah. By the third one, they're just like, she's fine. She's fine. Self-driving. Put her on self-driving.

Let's go, Lulu. My experience was always, you know, being in the hospital was lovely, but by, by the time you hit that 24-hour mark, which they like to keep you for, you're just sort of like, I am ready to go. They want you to-over 20? 24 hours at least for monitoring before they release the baby. Just in case the baby self-destructs. Understood.

This is like maybe a Cedars policy. I'm not sure if it's every hospital. Okay. The first baby, great. The second baby, you're like, I want to get home to my other baby. And then the third baby are just like, I have two kids that are waiting for me. Like, can I please? The third baby, you're like, can I stay here for two days?

Yeah. Totally. What if I stayed for 48 hours? Just you can help me change these diapers? So you're just sort of like by the time you get that jail break and you're out in the car and you're driving home, you're like, oh, thank God, I was so ready to get out of there. Do you think it's a psychological evaluation too? Because I remember the two of us showing up at the hospital, you show up a certain way. Sure.

Especially on your first baby. Yeah. Because you're like, you're panicked, you're excited. You don't know how this works. And so the nurses are like, of course, I've seen it all. And they're trying to calm you down. And I'm like, no, have you seen the birth plan? I've got plans.

I've got candles. I have a music list that I play. And I play it at a certain time. And so the 24-hour waiting period is just to make sure you've calmed down. Like, after you have the baby, are they still? Can we send them home with a child? Can we trust them? Yeah.

So for us, it was the midwives there. With Andrew, or the first, the most harrowing part of the night was Rye needed a few stitches. And she said, you're going to stick what way? And it took her like 45 minutes to get the nerve to get the stitches, right? And like he laid. That is wild. She just pushed out a baby. She just pushed out a baby.

So he's laying on my chest while the midwife is like straddling on top of her on the other side of the bed and sewing her up. And she's digging her nails into Brown's fore. Wait, the midwife is straddling her. Yeah. To sew her up. So she's sitting on her chest? Not on her chest. On her legs?

Like on her legs? Or say her legs are open and she's in between Ryan's. Like strapped. Got it, got it, got it, got it. And. Paint me a picture. I really want to know what I'm looking at. Exactly.

Hold on, let me close my eyes. Exactly what I look like. He's on the chest taking his first nap on dad. The best feeling in the world. Her legs are open while the midwife is in between and her arms. And I'm like, I'm trying to rest. And I was like, I got you, sis. And I was like,

Like this hurts, but I understand you going through a lot. And then they do it. And then they go, okay, we're going to go now. We're going to leave. And you're like, wait, what? For real, for real? We don't know what we're doing. They're like, yeah, we're gone.

And then it was just us. And it's like the baby was born at 2.23 in the morning. By the time we got to about 3.50, almost 4 o'clock, everybody was gone. And we were just like, here we go. there's the one thing that I knew about was, is it maconium? The first movement. It's very sticky. Tar like.

Tar-like stuff. I slathered his butt with like coconut oil or whatnot. So I could like before it came out so I can make sure to get it all up. So I took care of that. I felt pretty confident about it. And then there's just this amount immense amount of worry. And like I have no idea what I'm going to do. And there's this fatigue.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? like she's been up pushing a baby out of her body. You're sort of like helping or whatnot. And then you're like, oh, man, you try to go to that first nap and then that first cry, somebody got to get up. Yeah, your adrenals are shot. Bro.

That's so much. It's a real time to be very kind to each other. Yeah. Listen, and nobody ever is as kind as they necessarily need to be. So this is for folks who may be going through it in the future. Be nice to each other. It's a crazy time. For both of you.

Yeah. It's wonderful and awesome. and insane and everything all at once. Yeah, I was not happy with this first part of this episode. It was like exhausting me, watching everybody with the baby, all the different babies and the bringing them home and the car rides. I was like, this is, this was, it was too much for my nervous system to bring me back to. Can I also tell you guys selfishly,

I've been watching these last few episodes with the realization that it was leading up to right before I took my maternity leave. So I was about to be a first-time parent. And just the weird coincidence that these episodes, this and the next episode, are really sort of centered around parents. And like first-time parent, I guess in two cases, first-time parents, and then Toby and Kate as well. It's just like, it's so funny to me. And I'm like, wow, I really didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know what to expect.

I didn't know anything that was going on. And it's just so funny to see myself now. On the backside. On the backside, like watching Mandy as Rebecca talk to the nurse about, you know, when she's like, you could take everything you want and the, you know what I mean? Like, as we're preparing to leave for that first drive and the car seats and Jack and all of that is really funny. I think I filmed this episode, John Wirtas directed this episode. Yes, he did.

And then I filmed my tiny little, I just had like a little portion of the next episode in 510. And I think I filmed all of that so then I can. have like a little bit of an extended break. Like I went back like a month after I gave birth. But yeah, it was just a funny coincidence that this is what these episodes happen to be talking about too. Was there any strange sort of priming in terms of all the stuff that you had gone through before on camera in terms of what was about to happen in life? Did any of it feel like it related to like real life for you? No.

It's like no. No. And I think because we jumped around in time so much, you know. It's like we didn't live in any one time period for too long. And so, like, I think maybe if I had done the baby, all the baby stuff, like more recently, maybe it all would have. We should have sent Gerald McCraney to the hospital to meet you. That's what we should have done.

Yeah, that would have felt familiar. You guys, because the guy who was there, uh-oh. Not great? No. There's a whole other sidebar. I'll tell you off camera. But I will say because I also wanted to have a homebirth.

I ended up not being able to because I had this platelet issue. Anyway, so I ended up in the hospital, but it just meant at the last minute my whole birth team had to change. And so there was, I wanted to have midwific care at the hospital. And at the time, midwif. I know midwifery, but I've never heard midwific. So the one at the time midwife that was able, that had like practicing like privileges or whatever at cedars had to work in conjunction with a doctor. Yeah. And the doctor I did not like.

Like, I remember being in the throes of, like, pushing. So it's like I'd have a contraction. I'd put my feet up on the bar and I was, like, pushing so hard. And I was, like, holding onto the little, like, whatever the thing is called. Like, you're pulling yourself up. And I remember specific. Yeah, like some sort of battle rope. It was like a scarf.

I like it. And I remember distinctly looking at him and he was on his phone, like on CNN.com. I'll never forget. I was like, am I bothering you? And then I remember distinctively another time during labor. I'm like in the like in between contractions. And he's like, you know, they have a lobster truck outside today. And the midwife was like, oh, really?

And he's like, yeah, I mean, this is taking a really long time. I don't think I'm going to be able to get one. And I was like, I remember physical, because it's very me to be like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Like I just, I felt bad like I was wasting his time. Are you serious? You should have hit him in the chest with a baby. I wish I could have.

This feels like an apt time to say it and I'll say it for you. Men, what's up? Men, what's up? I was like, nah, maybe you don't need to be doing this anymore. You could retire and go have your lobster roll, whatever you choose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to do your storyline first? Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah, because I feel like the beginning of the episode is best saved for the end. So Jack and Rebecca are taking babies home. The nurse is talking about, again, gives that sort of like, you know, I'm going to turn a blind eye. Which, by the way, I don't know if you had that experience. I think they love the nurses and postpartum. They like hooking you up. Really love to hook you up. That's sweet.

Which is very sweet. I knew this much. When we went to the hospital for the first baby, for bed. We had taken those birthing classes. Yeah. But we took them on Zoom. with this woman who was incredible but was a complete character. Like if Francis McDormant was teaching birthing classes,

she was talking about people's vaginas. And she had people up on their knees and men were like, I was like massaging Rachel's hips on Zoom. That's what you do it? Yes, man. And like pressing them together. And she's like, really roll them. Like a real Francis McDone. Like literally the woman had a cat sitting.

on her shoulder at one point. Oh, God, I love it. But she told us about the nursing staffs and about how sometimes you get a staff that's a little tired or a little jaded or a little, you know, whatever. And it's just like, so just you take care of them and they'll take care of you.

So we showed up, I showed up with a five pound box of candy. Did you really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I wasn't messing. I was like, how you doing? Room 2E. Ladies.

Oh, I brought Starbucks gift cards. Hell yeah. Look at you guys. Yeah, yeah. You got to grease those palms. I feel you. But also just like, yeah, immense gratitude that is the real angel women that are in that work. It's our first time.

Rachel had gotten into this. I hope I'm not blowing up her spot too much. She had gotten into this breathing. She was gone. Like she was like. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the hypno breathing. The hypno breathing.

And so when we rolled her in, when we rolled her in, she was in about a 20, 30 minute process of going, like this long. Yes, sir. And when I rolled her in, you could see that the nurses were like... First time, baby. Yeah, first time, mom.

First time, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've been here before. They were like, oh, k-doch, just right over here to this room. It's hilarious. We've seen this. We've seen it all.

But she had already been through like nine hours of labor at home. All she had left was the breathing. Yes, sir. Yeah. Well, so we see Jack and Rebecca, you know, they're getting ready to take the babies home. Car seats don't have a manual. By the way, I remember these car seats on set.

So it was like back, right. They're just buckets. Yeah. No real. Like hung over the back of the seat. Kind of, yeah. There's no seatbelts back then, really. Is there no seat belt in the back seat?

When was the very first car seat required by law? That's what I was. We had a conversation, which I don't remember. remember now, this is five years ago, but yeah, they were literally just buckets. And so him trying to finagle how to figure out the car seats and stuff. Especially in 1980, would they have been forward-facing or would they have definitely been rear-facing? I feel like, I feel like everything was for the convenience of the parents. He was like, I want to see my baby. You know what I'm yeah, yeah. Tennessee. Tennessee. Four-runner. So only ten I see. So 85, yeah. I mean, I

guess just the simple premise of like mom and dad could not hold three babies on the way home. So it's like, let's get these. Let's do it. You guys were ahead of the curve. I think with three rear-facing baby seats for 1980, you're ahead of the curve. Yeah. For sure. Jack Pearson doesn't have a manual, but because he's Jack Pearson. She doesn't need a manual. He doesn't need a manual. He's a man of the 1980s. But of course, he gets out there and is like woefully underprepared, can't figure it out. Are they backwards? I, I, I think like a police officer. You can't see them. Totally.

But the police officer comes back, comes over to him or something. Security guards like, I think they're backwards. And anyway. Also, also, this whole, this, this trope of the car seat thing, I was a little offended. You're an Eagle Scout. You're an Eagle Scout. Come on. We all.

My wife gave me grief home of the car seat. They're not that hard to figure out. And not that easy. Oh, no. Well, they're all different, too. They're all different. Listen, I wound up putting it. fine, but like she was not pleased with how I'd put it in.

So oftentimes she will go back behind me and do it the way that makes her most I see. Yes. Fair enough. Yeah. Fair enough. I'm not mad at it. I was like, Ron, I've done the best I can.

You need to do so. You see that Rebecca is just inherently worried. They're on this drive home. She keeps looking back. Taring stitches. You like get stitches in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So she's like every time she turns. Yeah. She's, yeah, she's in abject pain. It's like, is, can Kate breathe? Is Kevin's head okay? He slumped over. He's really... He says, well, he's going to fall off?

Like, sir, these are new boys. These are freshies. They're right out of the oven. These buckets are not supportive. Not supportive and probably super uncomfortable. These hard plastic buckets. Totally. More that was us after these words from our sponsors.

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but need a little help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I think like, you know, Jack's obviously being careful, he's driving carefully, someone ends up like cutting them off. And that sets him off, right? They like pull into a, gas station because they need to get gas, but that's coincidentally also where this car is going

and kind of like cut right in front of them to get into the gas station. And Jack like jumps out of the car in full like old school Jack mode, like ready to bite this guy's head off. Let me say, let me say this. Yeah. Rye and I have this thing like because people will cut you off and I cut people off, I'm sure. And when you cut people off, you're like, my bad. And then when people cut you off, you're like, no, no, no. I want you to die. When Ryan gets, this reminded me of this interaction between Rebecca and Jack, when somebody cuts me off, I make it a point to drive right next to them.

And look at them? For about 30 seconds and just eyeball them. That's so intimidating. And Ryan, Michelle is like, Sterling, will you please stop? I said, I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything at all. I'm just letting them know I'm here. And she's like, you just need to keep going.

I said, I'm going. I'm moving at the same speed that he is. and he's going to look over and see me and know that he made a mistake. And he won't do it again. And she's like the whole time like, please just drive. Were you mad dog a lady?

I'm mad dog, anybody. It's just the person that cut you off. Just need to let them know. They made a mistake. They made a mistake. Yeah. And she's constantly like, because I'm not going to do anything.

If they wait, if they look over and go, my bad. I keep going. Then I'm on my way. I need acknowledge me too. Yeah. I need the acknowledgement. Or what happened to the friendly wave

when you let someone in in front of you. Sure. I wave anyways. When I let him in, they don't wave. I wave. You do the friendly, like, got it. You're welcome. I do say you're welcome, even if they don't say thank you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was because you were so like, he had this instinct to harm or hurt someone who was about to hurt his family. And you were just like, I need everybody here. Yes. You know what I'm saying? We're family.

Doesn't matter what's happening out there. We have three newborns now. this should be our only concern. Sure. We're okay. Doesn't matter what almost happened, we're fine. Jack says, fine. Let me just get a quick shot.

Yeah, totally. So he goes into pay for the gas. He goes into pay for the gas and he's like, and also I'm going to take a... One of those whiskeys. Yeah. When you get one of those whiskeys, can't get some of those mints too. Yeah, he remembered his wife. Let's get some nuts for this chick who just had three babies.

He needs some protein. She needs a little snack on the way home. For sure, for sure, for sure. He must be hungry. Three kids. Celebrating. Just some nuts and a whiskey, please. It was this moment you saw the guy was honking from behind him or whatnot.

And we had a minute of like literal white knuckling on the steering wheel before. Because you knew he was coming to the surface. As he goes into the place, he has his drink. He throws it in the trash, probably pops a mint, comes back to the car. And thankfully, we showed some level of responsibility on the show. And be like, hey, you know what? Maybe you should drive. You know, you okay to drive?

By the way, no. No. No, no. I did question that. I was like, I know this is a story point, guys, but I don't think a woman who just had a cesarean would be allowed to and or could drive. Also, hot take, I don't think Jack Pearson

would ever let his wife who just had a cesarean. I don't think in 1980, a man who's just had a shot of whiskey is going to be worried about driving. Probably. He would be less concerned about that, more concerned about his wife who just had three babies. It would have been the end of our show if they had let him drive home.

Probably. Probably. We had a civic responsibility to 2000, whatever. You know what I'm saying? It'd be like, all right, we didn't put him in the driver's seat. Yeah. Yeah. But fine.

There are very few times that I take slight objection with what the show does. This was one of them where I was like, I did. Did you vocalize it? I did. Who was a writer? John. Well, I didn't, maybe to Julia. I feel like I said something to John.

But you said it to John? Yeah. And John was like, what did you want me to do? Yeah. Kind of. It was kind of like, well, this is the way it's written. I think it would be, you know. Text damn. Yeah, exactly.

Everybody finds a creative way. Really? I've had a couple of those. Really? We won't get into it right now. But very few and far between where you have like a very strong point of view on something. Then you're like, I fundamentally disagree with this thing. It was mostly with the arguments, season three between Randall and Beth, where they wanted

Randall to be cute in a moment. And I was like, he's cute all the time. He's pissed right now. Just let him be mad. Yeah. Just let them be mad. And they're like, well, how about we do one take? No. Because that's what they'll use.

Yeah. Yeah. That's probably like the one that rings in my head. But besides that, we're good. Yeah. So Rebecca drives them home. They get back to their house. The babies are asleep. So they decide like we're, you know, you never wake a sleeping baby.

Yeah. Right. They're just waiting there. Yeah. This is a dad move, I think, or let's say Sterling. And I've never had three at the same time. you roll the windows down, you let them sit in that car, you put the monitor there, I go in the house and do my thing and I hear them cry and I come back out and I get them.

I just let them sleep. Is that a dad thing or is that like? No, no, no, I think that's, I mean, I've stayed in the car before. It's like, oh, I pulled up at home or wherever we're going in there sleep, especially at that age where you're just like, I need to let them sleep. I'm going to take that rest. They need this nap. Exactly.

When we first moved out here, our friends had like a three-story building that they owned and we lived on the second floor. And they would walk their son for naps, for like in the stroller. And then he'd be asleep. And they would just leave him in the stroller at the bottom of the stairs. Then when he would wake up, he would either cry and we were closer on the second floor. We would go get him. Or he would let himself out of the stroller.

Like, this is not a baby baby. This is a, you know, a toddler. And we're just wander in like half asleep. Into your house? Yeah, into our house, be like, where? And where's my mom? I'll take you upstairs. That's not bad.

Takes a village, bro. But they were in the house. You take the help where you can get it. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. Continue, please. So Rebecca kind of like voices this sort of fear, this feeling that I think any new parent feels.

Like there was this person before I went in the hospital and after. And I'm grappling with. this loss of identity of mourning who I was before and who I am now. And, you know, I wonder if I'm not, if I don't have the capacity to be a great mom because I am so sad right now. I'm like holding these two very important, unavoidable emotions of joy and grief. And not just the loss of self, obviously. It's the loss of a baby. And how do I move forward?

How am I going to constantly balance both of these things? You know, my mom, when I was five, she had a miscarriage. And like, she was so sad for so long. I just like, Rebecca's just like, I think she's just really worried. Like, who am I? How do I do this? How do I begin to like, is this the new normal? All of that.

And it kind of leads, it leads Jack into sort of sharing his side of things. And first of all, he convinces her and says, like, you are going to be a wonderful mom. Like, that story is already written. Which I love that. That's a good line. That's such a beautiful way of putting it. Literally, the writers have the scripts. Totally.

Totally. Yeah. We've seen the first five seasons. You're going to be a great one. Yeah, you're, you got it. He admits that he had a drink back at the gas station because he's overwhelmed and he doesn't want to be like, his dad. I mean, he's like, I just remember my dad, you know, coming home from work like 5.30 and by like 5 o'clock or 515, like I would be on edge knowing that he was coming home and he would come

into the house and like all the air would get sucked out of the room. Yeah. It was, he was so unhappy around us that he needed to drink or just to be in the same house as us. Yeah. And he's just like, I don't, you know, they're both just sharing their fears. He's like, I don't want to be this. And but doesn't want to be sad. And you tell him, you don't take the air out of the room, big dog. You are the air.

You are the air. Bars. These people got bars. Yeah, they got bars. I like her. Yeah. And then they kind of, I just love this idea.

They look at each other, like, we have a family. Like, that's what's so crazy. Yeah. You guys know. Those, that moment, that realization of like, it is no longer just the two of us.

Right. For them, it was instant family. Yeah. I mean, it is, to go from two to three is just like the most, mind-blowing experience in the world. There are no words. Is there a big jump in terms of two to three?

Yeah, every time. Every time. It's just crazy. But I mean, I don't think anything feels as wild as zero to one. You know, like going from being two people to three people and your family is just unfathomable. And so, yeah, that's kind of where we leave them. Just this realization of like, we're going to be okay together.

And we know that as we've seen the show for five seasons. You guys have a bit of a montage about like sort of big. We're never going to be in this car by ourselves ever again, are we? No. And just the moments from the show in the ride. You know what I'm saying? In the whip. In the whip.

And the whip changes from that station wagon. But should we go to Kevin? That station wagon. Let's do it. I know. I know. Somebody got it. Man.

I want a car. I wish I had it. I know. It's a great car. It's a great car. Go. So maybe to Kevin? Yeah.

Yeah. So it's kind of like we're seeing all of these different families at the beginning, trying to figure out leaving the hospital and installing car seats. And Kevin's not excluded from that. No. There's a fan that approaches him as he's like trying to figure out these car seats and he like freaks the F out on the guy. Yeah. And I was like, is this guy, are we going to learn more about this guy?

Because there was a little bit of a like, I don't know. There was something about the way this guy acted. Did you notice that? that like, I don't know, maybe he was going to be like, I'm like my kids sick in the hospital, something that like Kevin would then feel bad about it. Because he kind of like bites the guy's head off about invading this private moment of his, fair enough. But, and then he feels bad and takes a selfie with the guy.

And he's like, I'm overtired. They're in the car. Kevin sort of eagle eye realizes they're being followed by paparazzi. They're clearly just like they're. exhausted. And Kevin's like, you know, forget this. Like I'm pulling the car over. He jumps out to like go berate the guy. What do you want? Like what can I give you? You're ruining this like very intimate family

moment. And he really starts to like lose it on the guy. The guy's like snapping photos of the whole time. Madison comes over to like try to calm him down. And she's just sort of like like Kevin go back to the car. Like I let me handle this, right? Which it made me realize in this moment, I was like, wow, the evolution of this character for this woman to not only, like, to where she started from at the beginning of the series, like in the pilot, in this wait watch, this, you know, Weight Watchers group with Kate to like where we are now, where she like, she, you know, single-handedly sends him back to the car and is able to handle this situation with grace and with like, just like sort of a fierceness of, you know, he's.

of here's the deal. Yeah. He goes jogging every Wednesday at this time or whatever. Here's my phone number. I'll make sure you get the photos and the guy like very creepily is like with a shirt off. Like I get more money. And he's like, and in tight pants or something. This guy's a dick.

Yeah. Because she tries several times like, hey, man, you got kids? No. You got nieces and nephews. No. You got friends that got kids. Our writers were taking direct shots at the paparazzi. Right.

Yeah. Are you a human being? No. No, I'm actually. Nope. I'm not. I'm actually terribly lonely. They wrote him that way on purpose.

For sure. Have you ever had run-ins like that? Oh, yeah. What, like, bad, like where people just wouldn't take the hit and... I am nobody. I am nobody. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Mani Moore.

Hold on. In the scheme of things, in Los Angeles. We are not going to give you nobody. Come on. We will not give you nobody. Okay, I will say I am very low on the totem pole. I know my place. We live in Los Angeles.

We live in the land of like anybody everywhere. Time out. Wait, I'll tell you. You're going to go back to this. But I have to say, this is a quick and delightful side. Please. When we did the live podcast and afterwards, when we were meeting the folks that signed up to get pictures and things afterwards.

Yeah. Like the beat and greet. Sully and I would have these moments. This was the best. Because Sully loves attention. He's like, he's been on record of saying, like, I need this attention. And every once in a while, when they take the picture with the three of us, people would be like, could I just get a picture with you, Mandy? And I'd step to the side of course, no problem.

And Sully's face would be like, hey, how come nobody was? And we would look at each other for a moment and just crack the fuck up as you were doing your solo shots. There would be plenty of solo shots with everybody individually. That was just what the evening was. They didn't do solo shots with everybody. Suddenly, did they do shows shots with everybody? What's that? I mean...

Not everybody, but several people wanted. They wanted individual shots with all of us. Which I understand. But let's... But let's just... Give us a good paparazzi story, though. Tell us about it. Do you shout them down?

I mean, there have been a couple times where I've lost my stuff. Yeah. For sure. With the years or before that? Before. Not with the kids, but definitely before. Just because I feel like heaven. Yeah.

I'm always pretty eagle. about it. I think because I'm, especially now as a parent, but I've always been sort of hyper aware of my surroundings. And I have some sort of radar when someone's following me or something's happening. And so then I just get pissed like, oh, you think I'm dumb? Oh, you think I don't notice you running the red light or like pulling over and then pulling back out again. Like, these guys are not, they're not smart. They're not like, they're not. They're not. They're not. They're sly enough. And also, actually this just happened the other day. We were leaving the house and granted, we live in a burned down community. There's not a ton of like of houses around us.

So it's like I'm very aware of like either construct totally. And there were two nicer cars that I was like, that's weird. That seems a little out of place. I've never seen that fancy car or that fancy car, which then makes me angry because I'm like, these guys are doing well enough that they're driving. Okay. Whatever. But I was leaving to go pick up one of my kids from school. And I had Lou with me and I was going to pick a Bozzi. And I noticed these two cars like kind of follow out of the neighborhood and then get on the freeway a couple minutes later and then get off the free one this exit and then making all the turns and stuff like that. And in my mind, I was just like, what is like what is so exciting about my day?

Granted, you don't know what I'm doing, but also, like, what could I possibly be doing that's exciting? And I find it strange in this day and age where we all do have social media and we have a platform and a means of sharing our life and sharing, you know, what normally would have been private moments or our families or whatever. Like, don't you get enough is what you mean to certain things? It's just meaning like I don't understand the value then in what these people, what their job used to be. I guess I understood a little bit more, but nowadays I'm like, what is this, what is this matter? The fact that it's become normalized still boggles my mind, right? Like the concept of it, never mind me, let's say I was following Sterling around.

Yeah. Following Sterling around. Okay. Right? Which happens. No doubt. That's fine. That's weird.

That's weird enough. Yeah. But a man driving around following a woman. Yeah. And it's another thing. When men are the number one threat to women. Yeah. It's strange.

And you don't know, is this a stalker? Let's say. Let's say a cop, pulls me over and goes, what are you doing? And I go, I'm just following her. For what? To take pictures of her. For why? To sell them to people.

To make money. It's a very, it is the strangest concept. It is weird. Like for them to be like, what do you mean? Yeah. I'm just following her to take photos of her. and her children to sell to people. Like, what if I, what if I wasn't paparazzi?

And I was just like, no, no, I'm just a fan. And I'm going to follow her around. That would be weird. Because it's all fucking weird. It's all weird. Totally. So I, in that moment, I very much understood Kevin's, like, his gut reaction to fiercely protect his family at all costs.

Like, again, yes, a strange person is following you. and potentially like taking away this intimate, private, once in a lifetime moment of like bringing your children home crossing that threshold. But yes, I love how Madison deftly handles it and the guy sort of like scoots away and he's like, what did you do? And she's, don't worry about it. Like I'm going to drive. You're exhausted. Get in the car. Close your eyes.

We're like 20 minutes away from home. You take a nap. Yeah. Which again, I'm like. it's all pretty like Kevin not being able Kevin talking about how tired he is I'm like and like losing his in the moment on a paparazzi guy and then letting his lady drive home after she just pushed out twins you call him bullshit I'm going to get a quick 20 minute and a half just a tiny bit of like I appreciated the the gesture I appreciated where she was coming from but I feel like again under any other circumstance Jack or Kevin would both be like, are you joking?

I got this. I can get it together enough to drive my family home. Not in like a patriarchal sense, well, maybe to Jack or maybe, but like just. The men were done a little dirty in the writing of this by Julia. Get Julia on the phone. Julia? Julia. Jules.

Jules. They get to the house and is this a dream? Has anything happened before this dream? No. Because I always enjoyed a dreams. Because like you can probably count on maybe a hand. It's not more than two. hands scenes that adult children get with their father.

It's one hand. Is it one hand? Because I think Kev has had it's a percentage of one hand. In his flashback, his first episode, where like the coach is doing the thing, we have the wedding of Toby and Kate where he shows up there. We have imagining different scenarios for Randall and also the trip with Randall. So that's four of them. Maybe some more.

I don't know. I'm not sure. But it's, yeah, maybe one hand. It's very few and far between, where Milo is able to be included with the rest of the cast. So not only does she make the offer, he takes her up on it and goes right to sleep. Go sleep, knock out. Cams out of your dream. Guys, he was really tired.

He was so tired. He was really tired. Poor guy. Sleeping on that cot in the hospital room is so comfortable. It's so uncomfortable. I'm used to defining things in life. And so having this dream. And this was an interesting part of the dream.

because it's a Jack move, but I've always been taught with twins. Never carry both of it at the same time. You know what I'm saying? Just in case you have trumbled? You stumble or what? Now you got one hand to be able to do this. Did you see him both babies? Jack was like, hey man, they really are beautiful.

And he's like, thanks, Dad. And he's like, how did you do it? You had three. And I only have two. And Kev is overwhelmed. And I get it. That's first time, father. You're like, how do I do this?

How do I take care? How do I provide? Especially when you're, the example in your mind of your father is someone that you've placed on a pedestal. And the one time when you tried to bring them down off the pedestal, you got separated on the phone. Remember, like, I know you think of your dad a certain way, but...

So he's like, how did you do it? And he goes, dude, first of all I ever wanted. You know, I wanted your mom. I wanted these kids. Like, this was everything that I wanted in life. And he tells him, you're going to be fine. He said, I spent the better part of being a dad trying not to be like my dad. And here you are, son, doing everything, your power to be like me.

Right? And he says, just pick what it is that you want and go for it. And you're going to be all right. And like, what a wonderful dream, too. Because I think one of the things about the show that I love, and I remember having this moment in my own life of your parents are these figures that loom large. And I don't know what age it happens. It happens for us all at different points.

But my mom always did a good job of saying, like, hey, man, I'm just doing the best I can with what I got. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I ain't got all the answers or what have you, but I try the best that I can until I know how to do better. And that's it. Yeah.

That's the game. That is. Right? And I think there is some value. I think there's some value in your kids thinking that you're the shit. But then there's also value in being like, guys, I am the shit. and I make mistakes, like, and I am not perfect. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I try to be the best version of me for you. Yeah. But even that falls short of the mark from time to time, so a little bit of grace. And so, like, it was nice in this dream, how Jack manifests. And it's actually Kevin giving a gift to himself of being like, hey, man, maybe I should take a little bit of pressure off of myself. Yeah. He wakes up.

She's chilling. Maybe you should go inside and take a little pressure off of your, of your wife. You know what I'm saying? Make sure the woman that just brought the babies into the house and settled them, settled everybody in while he slept.

She has it handled. It's very admirable. Yeah. She doesn't. You go ahead, because I'm just going to jump to the reveal. Reveal it. Well, he basically is just sort of like, what are we doing?

Yeah. I know that we talked about, like, we had this faux sort of proposal and, like, We're engaged, but we're not really engaged. And, like, let's just make it official. Like, we are a family. I want to be a family with you.

And he rips off his, like, hospital bracelets. Those things are very hard to take off. Very hard to take off. He's a strong guy. He's his muscles. He's big men. And he's well-rested. I mean, yeah, he just woke up from a nap.

He just had a good cat nap and he's able to rip that bracelet off and put it on her. The things that I caught about this proposal. Yeah. Never says, like, I love you. Nope. Like, I want to spend my life with you. He does say, will you marry me? Doesn't he?

Does he not? He says, will you marry me? I want you to be my wife. Is that what he says? I want you to be my wife. I want you to be my wife. I want you to be my wife. She says yes.

And it's very sweet, but I just, you clock the things that aren't there. As someone who has proposed to someone who says, like, you're my best friend and I want to spend my whole life with you. And would you do me the honor of being, you know what I'm saying? I was like, the things that were not there were also very present. You know what I'm saying? Correct. You're telling me there had to be some kind of ring in the house.

Well, no, he said I will get you whatever kind of ring you want. I just mean, like, wrapping the bracelet around the... It was a spontaneous gesture inspired by the dreams of Jack Pierce. I'm telling you, these episodes stressed me out. And inspired by the fact that they just brought home these babies. I want to be a real family. Again... Let me give you this foreskin.

I want... But it's interesting because you're right. There's no mention of, like, about them as a couple. It's more of the idea of, like, bringing the family unit official. Official. Let's make it official. So that's where we leave that one. You want to go into Katow?

Yeah. Because this was, this was good. This was, I mean, I want you to step into it. But like, the thing that I recognize, and maybe it's because blocking, you're in the driver's seat. And I'm jumping to that cart and then we'll go back. But Kate, in the back seat. Kate wasn't reading the rule. And I was like, come on, Kate.

Hey, can you see her face? And the answer is, no, I cannot see her face. Because Toby would look over and be like, oh, this doesn't look. It's not going the way to everybody. It's hoping there we go. Yeah. Go ahead.

Something's funky with funky. Yeah. Yeah, we leave the hospital. Toby and Kate, it was called, called her Keith. Toby Keith. Toby Keith. Toby Keith. Very different.

Very different. So Toby Keith comes out of the hospital. I love this bar. Kate comes out of the hospital with the baby and is followed by Ellie. By Ellie in a wheelchair. You get to hold the baby. I get to hold the baby. Pretty, pretty.

Got a little sign welcoming the baby. Hey, hey, thank you. I got you. Thank you. Are you slith around? Are you slick around? Are you sick to breath? A little bit?

Do you need a little nap? I was up all night with Bear. Were you in like that? So do you guys mind if I just take a quick 20? Yeah, no, please. I'll just do a quick 20. Please. They come out and they're going to drop her off at her house.

Yeah. And they are having this conversation about next steps and how. Staying connected. Staying connected. Yeah, this was an open adoption. Correct. So they are under the guys and this belief that. She's going to be a part of this baby's life.

Correct. That there will be. birthdays and holidays and photos and get-togethers and meetups with with Ellie's other daughter Willow and so they're all going to sort of remain in each other's lives but you can see as the conversation progresses and she's sort of pressed further and further in a corner you got to get funky credit because like every with a mask on half the time so much was in the eyes yeah where she's just like oh man I'm not great actor not feeling it's like she's wonderful she's solid yeah yeah but yeah something's up.

Yeah. At a certain point, Kate keeps bringing up like, oh, it's Willow's birthday, and we can bring this, and we have this. And she's like, I stop. I can't do this. And what do you mean? She's like, I know we agreed to an open adoption or whatnot, but I kind of just think I need to say goodbye to this baby and be out.

And Kate is like, uh, and Toby's like, okay, we get it. You drop her off, what have you. You get back to the crib. And Kate's asking you like, dude, how are you cool with this? Okay, with all of this. Yeah. The whole idea was to have an open adoption. My brother grew up not knowing who his birth parents were.

And that was a massive thing for him to deal with. She's still dealing with it. Still dealing with it. Like, how are you cool with this? And you're like, look, we had a plan. And as we know, sometimes plans change. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

And go ahead, because you have some good, you have some good bars to her in terms of like. Yeah, I mean, this one really felt like me. Like this Toby response, I did not remember. filming this scene. Wow. Yeah, when I saw it, I was like, oh, right, this moment. Yeah.

And it really felt like I was closely connected to Toby's opinion on this. Like, she's gonna do what she's gonna do, and we're gonna do what we're gonna do. And she picked us for a reason. Yes. She's seen what you can do as a mother

and what I can do as a father, based on our current challenges around parenting. and everything's going to be fine. Yeah. Yeah. And you're unflappable. I liked that.

That's a really generous and kind descriptor for somebody. It cannot be flapped. Yeah. Was there any conversation about employment or is that just the next episode? That comes at the, nope, at the very end. At the end, he says, that's a good thing. You're unflappable. You're so unflappable.

Yeah. Because I have been fired. And that's kind of where that ends. Yeah. We'll be right back with more. That was us. Let me tell you about article. First off, if you're watching this podcast, and you should be,

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you still feel this desire and need to provide, right? Like, that's one of the things that you sort of labeled with. And to, on the day that your family is just, expanded to know that your means of provision has been taken away. Like, you have to take a deep breath on that, bro. Deep breath. So it's a big deal, right? And she says she encourages you, you're going to be fine.

You're going to get another job. It's all going to work out. You see, unflappable, right? So that's where we finish that one. Is that right? I really got to take turns being anxious, right? Like me and Rachel. It's hard when we do it at the same time, bro.

We can't. Bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't. We can't both be freaked out. The recipe for disaster. if both people are just flailing. We're fucking losing it, collectively. Yes.

Yeah. That's no bueno. I don't know if, Rach and I are pretty good at taking turn at. There's a certain amount of like, okay, you're feeling anxious about this thing. I'm not. Yeah. But you don't want to tell somebody to calm down. No.

Like that's not the moment. You got to feel what you feel. Or make them feel like you're telling them to calm down. But I also am not one to join. Like I'm not a joint. Like I'm not going to pretend to be more anxious about the thing. So it's a fine line. It's an acknowledgement of that must be tough.

Yeah. That must be tough. Yes. Yeah. And not in a facetious way. Yeah. But like what you're feeling right now, that must suck. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually just now learning this. Me too. Like, guys, for real, for real, for real, there would be times when I would be upset at Ryan Michelle Bathet for not seeing the world like Sterling K. Brown.

And then it sort of dawned on me, but she's Ryan Michelle Bathay. What? How could she? She has to see the world like Ryan Michelle Bathet. And I'm so happy that I get a perspective that is different from mine because it sort of rounds out, you know, things. My rose-colored glasses sometimes can be like not quite what's going on. Sometimes Brown needs to read the room and I turn to the bird, And she gives me perspective and I'll be like, yeah. Much appreciated.

Thank you very much. Well, that's good partnership. That's it. Having that balance. Let's go into a little bit of R&B. And then we'll tie in the beginning of the episode. Yeah. We have a flashback.

We have a flashback to R&B's birth of their second child, which thankfully happened in the hospital because the first one happened at home. So it seemed like it was a much smoother sort of scenario. She said it was 48 hours of pushing. I call a little BS on that because I think the second one comes a little bit quicker than the first one. Yeah. But, you know. Most of the time.

Most of the time. Most of the time. We also get baby face sterling, which is everybody knows my favorite Sterling. You enjoy? Yeah. You enjoy the clay shaving? Oh yeah.

There's a lot of face. There's a lot of face that Brown has. I love it. God bless you. God bless you all. We have made a deal. She said she gets to have anything she wants after she gets this baby out.

She wants a Snickers. What kind of blizzard? Yeah, a Snickers blizzard. Snickers blizzard. By the way, Brown used to house. Yeah. A Snickers. Oero cookies and,

Yeah. Guys, I would get it in a big gulp cup. Yeah. That is so much ice cream. You go 32 ounces of ice cream. Yes. And when they used to make them back in the day, you could turn that shit upside down. Yes.

And it would not come out. Yes. It was a concrete. A concrete. 32 ounces of ice cream. Brown is like nine years old. Dude, housing. My sugar problems as a kid were real.

They were rooted at Dairy Queen. They, they, let's put, my dad, my dad used to take me and my brother. Yeah. To, uh, Kings games. Okay. Uh, basketball games in Sacramento. And on the way, we would stop at the AM, PM. Okay.

And load our pockets with concessions. Must cheaper than in the stadium. That's right. Yes. Because there you're, you're getting three for, for one. Yeah. Like three for one. So we would load our pockets with candy.

That's very African American. I didn't know this. This is good. Loader. I would pregame for the movie theater too. Yes! Get out of here! I take full...

Until recently, because I haven't been to the movie theaters in a minute. They won't tell you, but you can take just about anything in there. Yeah. You don't even have to hide it. You bring a sandwich. They don't care. I'm taking a whole pizza. In the movie theater?

See if I could. No way. I just hold it in this hand, hand the guy my ticket, never break eye contacts. Are you going to... You're going to stop me? No? You don't care that much. Wait, legitimately, you brought a whole pizza. Whole pizza, yeah.

And just dead eyes. Right in the eyes. Yeah. Here's my ticket. Recently, post-COVID? No, this was back in my Chicago days. Andrew and I would do Chipotle, but I put it in the backpack. Yeah.

Then I get in the theater. My big toe. Everybody turn around because they're like, it smells like Mexican. It smells really good. Oh, they hate it. They hate it because they wish they had Chipotle. There you go. And they don't have Chipotle.

But yeah, we would load our pockets with candy and get the 32. ounce milkshake for the ride there. Sugar was a real part. I told you how much soda I drank in college. Yeah. You live, you learn, you try to do better. There you go. That's what it was.

That's right. That's what it was. You do the best with what you have. Exactly. We're driving in the car. Everybody knows this, but Randall has a tough time reading room. Never talked to a woman about a next child right after she just had a child.

Yeah. Like usually you give them a couple months or something. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, this whole episode is full of Tim the Toolman Taylor's. Julia had it out for the men. Yeah, she was like, I'm gonna make them as dumb. Just a bunch of jummies. As dirt.

Get her on the phone. I have questions, actually. What was going on, Julia? Yeah, yeah. She had a bone to pick. She had a real bone to pick with somebody in her life. Beth and Ray are talking, he's like, you know, like, you know, maybe if we decide to have a third, and she's like, excuse me,

And he's saying, just, you know, saying, she's a third what? I was like, just talking to the possibility. We missed the turn to the DQ. We have to turn back around. We go to the DQ. We get out of the car. And I said, can I just say this one thing about, you know. Keeps going in.

Can you bring it in? She's like, Negro. Like, in her eyes, Susan Kalachi Vazza was like, bro, are you about to do this again? And he's just talking about, he says a few things. And then, because what I remember specifically then is talking to Annie. Because in the hospital, the nurse says, I think she's got daddy's eyes. Yeah. And he says, like, when the nurse said that, like, it made me really happy.

Because I grew up in a family where I didn't have anybody's eyes. And I love my family. But they weren't where I came from. Sure. So I had this moment where I had to do my family tree when I was in school. And my brother and sister were doing theirs and I was doing mine. And I knew something about mine was not quite right because this is my family, but also there's a whole other group of people that I come from

that I have no sense of connection to. So my idea was you and your sister and your mom, you're the beginning of this tree that is like my tree. And as the wife is coming back from getting her blizzard, you're saying like, I just wanted to see that tree be as big as it possibly could. Right? So it's not me trying to like, I wasn't trying to push, push, but I was also like very excited about the idea of just having,

having big old beautiful branches coming out of the tree. Right. And Beth's sort of clocks and she's like, all right, bro. I'm not as annoyed as I was before, but you shouldn't be bringing this crap up right now. Let me eat this thing. Let me have my blizzard. Do not interrupt me for the next 12 minutes. Is this a peace offering?

Because she has two blizzards. She's like, no, these are both for me. And he gives her a little bit of a look and she gives and she hands it to him and they share a sweet little kiss. And it was nice. I was like, ultimately I'll say like, the fact that I brought it up in the first place, I think is something I cry bullshit on, but I like the way that it all sort of comes together, right? So the beginning of this episode, we're meeting this young black woman who looks like she's a resident, would you say? Yeah. Sure. She's a resident in hospital,

and she's sort of like nonplussed with whatever the lesson is that's being taught right now. Yeah, they're in like the labor and delivery ward. Yeah. And she's kind of just like rolling her eyes about it and like babies. Like babies are easy, but I don't know what we're doing here. This is not. She's like, I need to do cardiac, thoracic stuff. I need deep stuff with small children. Give me pediatric surgery, something like that. They're not getting excited. She steps outside. She's waiting. Another sister comes and picks her up, right? They're driving in their car later on. No, no, no. I'm just saying, like, I could tell, I mean, I knew what was coming. But this is the best casting.

It's really great. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. Because you instantly know. Taylor was like, I know exactly who that is. It's no mystery. Do you think the audience did? I think they did. I think they do because the casting, the casting was so incredible. Spot the blank on.

And that actor, I mean, she was doing a little Dacia, right? She was Dacia. Taylor was like, cats out of the eyes. It's Dacia in the future. What I want to know is she'd watched the show. Yes. And I would talk to her about it. I was like, do you, are you watching lyric?

And she's like, yeah, I try to do like a little something that lyrics does. And she does. It's incredible. There's a smile that she has, it's just like a thousand watt that's like, that's my daughter, right? But the casting for Annie N Tess as well is,

but it's bonkers. It's crazy. I will tell you how crazy it is in a second because once we get to the end of this episode, because I know how much time I got. Yeah. Okay. She's with her sister and she said,

I got you a gift, right? It's some sort of little play thing or whatnot. She's like, I know you haven't told everybody yet. Yeah. No, you haven't told everybody yet, but figure out, get something early. And then she puts her hand on her belly. And she's like, you know, everybody's going to know you're pregnant. If you keep touching your belly, she's like that.

She ain't touching my belly. I don't know what you're talking about. They wind up there on a drive. And at the end of the episode, they wind up pulling up to Kevin's house. Yeah, we recognize Kevin's house outside. And old Randall, who doesn't look as bad as the first old Randall, Here we go. No, he does look.

But he's open. He's, something happened in the house. And he came out, came outside looking great. I lost extra face. I was like, I ain't putting this shit on. You didn't do that to nobody else. You put to Mandy, but like, she still get to be pretty because Mandy's just pretty naturally.

So I want to be pretty and old, too. I got to be pretty and old. Especially after you saw what they did to Kevin. Kevin didn't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, even more hands of them. And that's pure Justin.

They blew some baby powder on his face. You can see. You can see. Justin in hair and make him be like, no, I don't need that. Nope. Nope. Nope. With that. With that, with that, with the hand. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Um, but I'm telling you. You can tell Dan, I said so. Yeah. It's quintessential. This is my favorite thing. He does it all the time. All the time. Great. Yeah.

But then Ke, uh, no, first test comes out of the house. And she's like, it took you guys long enough. Da-da-da-da-da. The sisters greet each other. And when I walked out of the house, guys, and get a chance to see my three daughters. Like when Sterling watched Randall come out and see his three daughters, I freaking lost it. Yeah. It's like I got a chance. The beautiful branches. The beautiful branches of my tree right there. And she hasn't told him yet. So now the audience is ahead of Randall. Yes. Because he doesn't know that he's about to be a grandfather. Yeah. Right. But he gives her this kiss, like how's the drive up? And she said, it's always a little bit longer than what you think it's going to be.

And there's just this kiss on the forehead. And they all go inside the house. And I'm like, this man gets the branches. He gets the branches. He's got even like twigs that he doesn't even know about yet. Exactly. Little offshoots of the tree he doesn't even know yet. We would sit the three of them and I'd be like, you guys look like my girls.

And they're like, I know, we do. Like, we would take these pictures together and everything, and it was crazy. Like, hopefully I can go back and find some of them because it really, it was like I jumped forward, 2015, how many every years in the future. And I was like, I get to see it. Like, I get to experience the whole of the song. I mean, I think that is such a trick of our show. And I'll end because we should wrap this up. But, like, the casting on the show is truly remarkable.

Yeah. Not just finding gifted actors. Yeah. But in the casting of these younger actors or other actors playing different versions of characters that have already been established on our show, it's mind-boggling. There's a real sense of continuity. Every single time without fail. And if it didn't work, the show wouldn't have been as good. The show wouldn't have worked in many ways.

So we're going to come back with our favorite segment, our fan segment, and this time it's going to be a quick little convo with our buddy Huerta. The most interesting man in the world. Hands down. Hands down. We'll be right back more That Was Us. We are so excited because today we are welcoming back a familiar voice to the That Was Us family. But this time he is joining us to chat about being on the other side of the camera. You know him as Miguel.

We call him the most interesting man in the world. According to SAG, he is John Huertas. I call him sweet cheeks. He directed season five, episode nine, The Ride. and we can't wait to talk to him about shaping such a powerful episode. Welcome back to the show, my man, Jay Wirtas. The most frequent guest on our show now. Kind of, yeah.

There he is. Looking handsome as ever. Oh, my goodness. Don't do that to me. Wow. This is such a professional Zoom hunt. You can't come on here looking like that. Looking good, big, though.

Had to come in hard and fast. Man, Jesus, that mustache entered the room first. Oh, my God. Goodness. Man. Where are you talking to us from, Big Dog? You up north? Yeah, Nevada City.

Navajo City. That's right. Address? Yeah. Share it with the world so we can know. We can all come see it. Good to see you, bud. How are you, bro?

You look good. Oh, thank you. Yeah, so do you guys. Hair cut, nice trim beard. The stash is now a mainstay, right? Is this, we rock the stash most of the time now? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. It makes people trust me more. Man, you got a nice little Valentine's sort of all. When I'm sitting in my van. down the block from the school. Oh, God. They just trust me. This is exactly what we needed.

Dark. How are you, bud? I'm good, yeah. Just homestating? Working on this farm. Yeah. What's the latest on the farm? Last time you were with us, you were giving us a story about crazy wild turkeys that were

chasing you all through. Have the turkeys calm down? Have things become safer? What's the deal? The turkeys don't chase anymore. Okay, that's good. They're still here. There's many more of them.

I feel like there's 50 of them. Are you serious? Just, yeah, always walking around. But they know who's in charge. I've got a lot of animals, though. What else you got? I found some baby snakes. Oh, no thanks.

Yeah, they're cute. They were this big. That'd be great if John moved up north and started a baby snake farm. That would be interesting. Intentionally like, I raised snakes. I'd believe it. I have a snake farm. It's the only one in California.

That's how it does. Just deer, lots of deer, lots of buck, young buck, old buck. And one beast. Are we, so we got you here because we're talking, this was your directorial debut on our show, correct? This is true, yes. Threw me into the fire. Yeah, during COVID. You did, and you jumped into it like a champ.

And that's like these days, like, I know you're a producer, you're an actor still, but, like, is directing what's been happening most post-show for you? you these days? Yeah, definitely. You know, Ken came up to me after doing this episode, and he was like, yeah, man, you're pretty good at this, but if you want to continue to do it, you should just do this and pause

acting for a while so that people take you seriously. Oh, really? That was his advice. Yeah, and I've been heating it, and I think I've gotten a lot better, and I just love it. I get more way more out of it. So much more gratification. Explain to me because you guys have all done it. So, man, now, John, multiple times.

Talk to me a little bit about what the nature of the gratification of directing is vis-a-vis acting. So I think as an actor, I have one responsibility. And like on our show, it was to Miguel, obviously. Yeah. And whatever his, you know, story was within the story. and how he was supporting, whether it was A story, B story, C story, whatever it is. When you're the director, you are responsible for the first word on the first page and the last word on the last page. And, you know, for me, I think just like breaking down your character as an actor, as a director, you have to do it for every character and you have to do it for the entire story. and I loved the work. It's a lot more work.

Yeah. A lot less money. Is it less money? You get more as an actor than you do as a director? Hell you're happy. You know you're invested for the right reason. But you love it. You love it.

How many trackers have you done so far? Trackers, I've done three. You've done three. Yeah, that's right. Have you done more of any other show besides tracker? I've done a bunch of rookie. Yeah. Yeah, five or six of those.

I did a show called Ballad. I don't even, yeah, either rational. There's a bunch of stuff. But I think I'm going to slow down and just kind of focus on the tracker stuff, which I love. I love working with Justin.

Yeah. And the rookie stuff, because I want to jump into the feature world. Look at this, too. Yeah. This dude. You'll write your own stuff? And that takes more time.

Are you going to write your own feature? Are you looking for it, like, to find a writer to partner with to do it that way? Well, right now. Right now, I'm attached to a film that is supposed to shoot in May, June. Okay. With Wilder Balmerama. Yes.

Bauderama. You guys are... As Mandy knows very well. I love Will. Of course. Me too. Yeah, so he's starring in a film that I'm supposed to be directing, but until I'm on set, yell in action.

I know. I know. We just never know. We wait until we find out. So then... Yes. That's the summer. Let's go back in time then just a little bit.

crossing my fingers and hoping for that. What were nerves, what were expectations? How did you feel jumping into your first episode as director of This Is Us? I mean, first of all, it was during COVID. Yeah. I think it was the first episode that we were going to be establishing masks.

We had masks earlier in the season. Yeah, we had masks earlier in the season. Yeah. Was it early in the season? Yeah. From 501, we had masks, yeah. 5-1, oh, wow. Did you have to do your entire process?

over Zoom? I did, yeah. Like all of your prep. So give our audience kind of an idea of what pre- because a director working on our episode would essentially be working for a month, right? Yeah. In pre-production, production, and post-production, right?

About that, give or take? Yeah, like three, three and a half weeks. Yeah. In non-COVID times, give our audience kind of an idea of what a director's responsibilities are leading up to an episode of television, especially when you're quote unquote guest directing. Yeah, directing an episode of television.

First of all, your responsibility is to the showrunner, ultimately. Television is a showrunner's game. So that showrunner's vision is what's most important. So you have to support that. You don't come in with your own vision and change everything up. So, you know, I think understanding, first of all, the script, I think Julie Browner wrote this one. So, you know, she's obviously doing her job in support of our showrunners' vision.

So she's there with me, and we start the first day with a concept meeting, as two of you know. And that's the first day of prep. You know what's up? I'm just saying. I'm just saying, I know what a concept meeting is. I just never did it. So, so, yeah, a concept meeting. you just start having meetings and it's with every department head.

You start scouting pretty much at the beginning. So you want to get your locations as soon as possible. So the art department has time to turn it into what you wanted to look like. Yep. And the casting is happening during all of this. You're getting tapes. You're on your way to a scout and you've got to watch a few tapes to, you know, cast a bunch of people. So it all kind of blends together at seven days.

of prep and then you, you know, and but with COVID, I do remember we got some extra days. There were some contingencies that came up that, you know, you get some extra days for not only prep, but also for filming. Yeah. Just because it was an odd time. Sure. But yeah, that's how you go. And then finally it's time to shoot.

And you're, you know, before day one, you're really nervous, especially if you're working with Sterling Kay Brown in day one. You are just like, ah. Why? Emmy award-winning Sterling K. No, no, listen, I've heard this a couple of times, but you guys know me, and I'm as dumb as anybody else is. You know what I'm saying?

That's true. That is true. That is very true, yeah. Everybody agrees with that. No, I remember it being, I remember, I didn't, because I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't aware, I knew that you were going to direct, but because of COVID and all the separation, we weren't really hanging out. Like, I didn't realize you were directing the episode until I showed up on set.

Really? Yeah, and I was like, oh, this is the one. This is the one. Yeah. And I remember, like, just being aware of like, oh, I've never. Obviously, I had only been on a few TV shows, but to be on a TV show where a cast member is now directing. Yeah. It was special.

It was, especially somebody who I had become close with. It was special. It was like a special day for me. Yeah. We all wanted to rise to the occasion and be good for you. Yes. Well, thank you. And then you were.

But I will say, like, those jokes behind, you know, being nervous about directing, not only Sterling, but everyone, because, you know, I respect everyone's talent so much. And there's a part of me that looks at myself in the mirror and says, how dare you give a note to Mandy Moore? How dare you? Yeah, right.

So until we started filming, I was like, Mandy, you have to, come on. Come on, Mandy. And then Mandy Moore said, how dare you give a note to Mandy Moore? It's from my perspective, and you guys are, like, you do your homework, you feel like you have a take that you want to execute. But like you're not looking through the frame. And as somebody who's looked through the frame and I've heard a note giving, you'd be like, oh, that's a good note.

Because you just don't see how it's coming across. And a third eye, an objective eye, is always appreciated. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially when you respect the. the person who's giving the notes. Not that you don't respect all of the directors, but...

But you don't. But you don't. No. But the perspective that someone like John, who is part of our cast, who knows these characters, who knows the story, who's been around in this ethos for five and a half seasons now, it's like, coming from you especially, it's like, oh, wow, absolutely. Like, it's such an interesting take to have that perspective. Agreed.

Agreed. I think, like, for me, what was amazing, because, we were already collaborators as a cast. Yes, right? Sure. And this was a different way of collaborating that was so special and so, I don't know, it was the most rewarding kind of moment in my career was being able to step into the director's chair with you guys and for Dan and for Julie and, you know, just like, and for our fans.

I mean, they could have watched that episode and be like, don't ever let him he messed up the soup. He put too much pepper in a soup. Too much pepper. Too much pepper in this episode. They must be out of Calient. I can tell you, they handed you a doozy of an episode

with all these babies to navigate. They're like, welcome to your first episode. How about 17 babies? Yeah. I don't even like babies. Yeah. Oh, we know that about you. And half of them weren't even real.

Half of them weren't real. That's my favorite part. I don't know if you guys love to do the eagle eye. When is it the real baby? When is it not the real baby? When is it a dollhead? Especially during COVID because we had way less real babies on set. Sure.

Anytime they weren't allowed to, right? Yeah. And you had a lot of close singles on baby's faces because it was the only way you could convince them out of against, yeah. Shoot them later, you know, in private. Line them up and shoot them around the babies. Yeah, that was crazy. when I read the script

in fact, we took two babies out because I was like, do we have to have this many babies? Did you really? You took it? Yeah, and there's a scene, I don't think it made the cut, but we see I forget whose kids it were and I think they're Tess's kids

in the show. Tess? Tess? Was it? Maybe Annie's kids. Like, wait, wait, wait, wait. In the future? Yeah, in the future.

We shot a scene. No way. Yeah, and she had kids, two babies, and then we made them like eight and ten or something like that or older. Maybe five and seven. Right, because one of the three lines was Randall's desire for the branches of the tree. So you're probably trying to show all these different branches. And John Hortez was like, okay, he's got enough branches.

Trimbing this. Yeah, trim this tree. Trim this tree. Okay. Some of the branches are a little longer. than they need to be. These are seven-year-old branches. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, but then the episode was long, so I think they lost that. Yeah. It was cool. Talk to me a little bit about about post for you. I've heard a lot of directors talk about handing in their cut and it, you know, feeling very precious with it. And then Dan sort of puts his hands on it. Like, just that process of letting go.

What's it like? I mean, I'm usually really proud of my cut. And I think Chris and I, we share a similar story. Because you warned me. When you get the first cut, like the editor's cut, you throw up in your mouth and swallow it. Because it's just so bad. That disgusting. You're like, what have I done?

I've ruined everything. You warned me when I did mine. You were like, you're going to see that first cut. And you are going to have, you're going to think that you ruined an episode of This Is Us. You're like, this is garbage. Everything I have is garbage. All of these people are so talented. How did I ruin this?

That's what you warned me about. And then you work with the, we had amazing editors on our show. So you work with these editors for four days. And then you just have to trust that, you know, the Dan, like Dan's like the, I don't know, the guru or the, I don't know, he just has such a way, because you do have to trust that he's going to make this episode.

Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to have to know, like, you don't fall in love with any scenes, basically. Okay. Like, you have to. You know, Dan's going to rearrange things sometimes. Yeah.

My episode stayed pretty, I think, as far as chronologically, the story and the scenes, it stayed pretty much as scripted, but we did lose. some stuff, but otherwise, I don't think Dan really chopped into mine as much as I've seen him do other episodes. Yeah, he didn't need to. There you go. So when you, for each, this is for each

of you, when you see your episodes finally come out, are you happy? Are you like, this wasn't, I didn't see it going this way, but I'm happy with how it turned. Like, I'm cute for it, because you guys each had the experience. What did you think, John? I mean, the first time I watched an episode, I had

Just to be honest, I cried. I was with Nicole. And, you know, I got to direct, like, the best show on television. Yeah. Yeah. And work with all my best friends, you know. And, yeah, I was, I saw that you guys were bringing it from me. And it made my heart swell up.

And so I was, like, you know, so happy, so excited. And then I had to go back to work as Miguel. What a letdown. You felt Mandy, Chris, similarly? Yes. Happy. Yeah. That's cool.

Yeah, very happy. That's cool. Maybe I should have directed. Yeah. You should have. You never too late? I'm okay. I mean, it's for this dust.

I mean, I could, because I could possibly have done it on, it's not, it's not in me yet. It's not in me yet. Like, that sense of joy that you had in terms of being able, First word on page one, last word on last page or whatnot. Like, I'm actually pretty cool just working with the character. I feel like there's other things that I do. I try to be like water in terms of, like, supporting people in other ways or what have you. But, like, I'm directing is hard.

I think. Oh, yeah. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. But I think maybe you shouldn't actually because I think you would dig it the most. Do you think he would love it, John? Like, yeah, and I don't want him to do it because then he might take some jobs for me.

Yeah, don't do it. That's right. Maybe you leave something for the rest of us. That's funny. John, you're so suited for that position, though. You are, you are calm, you are intensely creative. Handsome. Is that part of that?

That is a real requirement for being a great director. That makes sense. That makes sense. But you just like you do come with so many ideas. You're unflappable. know, Kate sort of, Toby declares Kate is unflappable in this, in this episode. Yes. You know what I mean?

Like, you just, like, you brought such a poise and such a confidence, especially in the face of, like, I remember, like, I just have this very distinct picture of you on the back of my mind of, like, in a mask, holding your iPad, like, going through, like, talking to Milo and I while we were doing those scenes outside of the hospital. And, like, just, you knew what you wanted. You knew how to get there. you knew how to like talk to the crew without being flustered. Like it is a very overwhelming job, right?

You are the nucleus of the set. Everyone is coming to you with every question. You are running everything. And I think like to go from being an actor to just sort of ascending to that position where yeah, you're there at the beginning of the day all the way to the end. As an actor, it's like, you know, when you're not being used and they're moving on or moving equipment around or cameras and whatnot. You can go sit on your seat. You can chat with people. You can get on your phone. And as a director, it's like you're constantly feeling questions.

And John, you just like innately, immediately, I was like, oh, he's meant to do this. Like, you're so comfortable. You're great at giving like notes. You're just, you're so thoughtful. You're such a great storyteller, just intrinsically in life. Whenever, like, you're kind of the life of the party. You're just an incredible storyteller. People are sort of drawn to you innately anyway. So to see you in this position being, you know, being in the position of being able to be the ultimate storyteller, it's just, it truly is where you're meant to be. Yeah. Or you can do it all. But yeah, I just, I so enjoyed.

I mean, I felt the same way about you too, Chris. It's like, I really enjoy, and the same goes with Ken and Justin and Milo, being directed by fellow actors. There's a quiet comfort in being with. like a comrade with somebody who's like been in the trenches before knows what it's like and knows how to speak to another actor. Right. The language. It knows the language and there's just there's a different level of consideration and knowledge of where someone's coming from what they might be thinking that I tend to prefer like, you know, I feel most comfortable being directed by a fellow actor.

Yeah. I think I do too. Mike. My two cents for whatever it's worth. That was more than two cents. But there's a $5 bill. Five dollar bill. Yes for you.

You may be fall in love with you all over again. So yeah, I mean, I think that being directed by an actor or a former actor is just, like you said, there's this familiarity of language or of how we approach the work. Yeah. It's different from many other department. And so there are directors that come from camera, They come from editing.

They come from AD department. And they just have a different approach to, imagine like an AD how they break down a script. Yeah. Compared to how we break down characters. Looking at different things. Yeah. Yeah. So we see this familiarity when there's a director on the other side of the camera who used to be an actor.

We talked to Catherine Hardwick a couple, many episodes ago now. But she talked about how when she decided to break into directing, she took an acting class. because she was like, I felt like it was important and responsible of me to know what I was telling other people I wanted from them. And so, like, not saying that it should be a requirement for every director, but I did appreciate that, like, a step in that direction. Because I think there is a lack of understanding of the language and the vocabulary specifically if you don't necessarily know. And I don't expect every director, obviously, to have that specific language. but it is, I just think it's helpful. It's really nice.

So that end, I think that directors or actors who are becoming directors or any other department that is transitioning to being a director should also know how to speak the language of the camera department. Correct. And I think all and across the board, every department, that's, I mean, I know that I didn't want to get into the director's chair until I really shadowed camera, shadowed production designer. So when you need and want something for your episode, you know how to convey it in an economical way, in a respectful way.

And if they hear you speak in their language, then they will jump through hoops for you. And I think that's important. I spent so much time. I think when I was on Castle, I never went to my chair trailer. You were just an observer. Go to camera and just watch, hang out. This is like, guys, we refer to John Weertes as the most interesting word, man. in the world. Like, he doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he probably drinks

dosakis because... No, he probably made his own... He probably made his own... He has his own microbrewery. You know what I'm saying? He made that trace exes. Yeah. Because he's just that nasty with it, you know what I'm saying? You're stupid. But there is an unquenchable desire. He's a lifelong learner. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, in the truest sense of the word... So curious. whatever it is. And like, you're right, Mandy, it's unquenchable.

And, like, just to hear you talk about life, and you'd be like, yeah, I built this house. And you're like, what? And yeah, I raised, you probably raised the turkeys. He probably breeded the turkeys with each other. And so he can have more. And then domesticate them. I'm going to domesticate these wild turkeys

because that's how bad I am. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man, I caught a chick once, turkey chick. I didn't catch it. It was lost. Yeah. Told you. And was peeping, like, peep, beep, beep.

Yeah. I told you. And I picked it up. But I was like, you got to get back to your mom. I wanted to keep that little mother. Yeah. Use them as bait. Will you touch the birds?

Would they go back? Use them as bait. Will the other, where the turkeys take them back? I have gloves on. Okay. I don't know. I did hear a story when I was a little kid. Like, oh, if you touch a baby birds, they'll be rejected.

Yeah. Did you have to rinse the gravy off? I don't know. That's true. The turkey drave? You are, you are definitely a dad. Yeah. That dad.

That DJ on the DJs at me. That DJ. Listen, what else? The next episode of anything that you directed will be what? When will it be out so folks know? Listen, I'm going to say this real quick. Wait, before you even say it, and this is just selfishly as an actor, you're so good that the idea that you have completely pivoted away from it forever gives me a little bit of sadness.

He's not. If the right job comes along. I wouldn't say forever. Okay. Yeah. If the right job comes along. Okay. John has an open mind. You'll be there if we need you.

Absolutely. And if I developed something, but I'll say, like, I got spoiled with This Is Us. Yeah. And then I did a David Simon show a while back. And I'm thinking now at this age, and because I love directing so much, I don't want to settle for just anything. The writing has to be like, at that level for me to really love it.

Or something that I'm doing myself so that if it's messed up, I can only blame myself. Yeah, you're in control. You're in the driver's seat. Sure, sure, sure, sure. So I'm not done completely. I may be in front of the camera in the summer as well. Okay.

Yeah. Yes, please. Thanks for coming to chat with us, bud. Miss you. We always love seeing you, John. We miss you down here in L.A. You're the man. Give Nicole our loves.

Yeah, give Nicole a big hug. Let me know when you guys want to come up north. Oh, we will. Listen, I may be up there in a couple of months, actually, to go visit the alma mater. So if you're not too far away, maybe we can find each other. He's up there in them hills. In them hills. Yeah.

We're fine. Them foothills. Open them foothills. So dung. Right before them Sierra Nevada's. Love you, bro. Talk to you. We love you, John.

Love you, guys. See you, bud. Bye. All right. Man, I love that, John Wirtes so much. He's awesome. He did a great job directing it. Like, I love.

He would always come. He's acted like he was afraid to give notes. John, John likes to talk. John gave notes. No, he had. They were wonderful. They were wonderful. Like I said, because he knows these characters.

He knows this story, this world so in-depthly that his notes were one. Yeah, they were fantastic. Did he wind up doing the most episode? No. Did he do two? He did two. He did two and Milo and. Milo did three.

The Milo did three? I think he did do three. And Justin did two. And Justin did two. Yeah. Okay. And Ken did too many. He didn't in the 30s.

No, Ken didn't do enough. I'll say this. To what John said about, like, turning in his director's cut. I don't know. It was like, like, Dan says, like, Ken got to the place where he didn't even try to turn into the director's cut. He's like, Dan's going to do what he's going to do anyway. I just give him the footage and let him do it.

Yeah. And sometimes Dan was like, I actually kind of like. Yeah. I mean, Dan will be the first one to tell you my, like, I'm not on set a lot. I'm in the writer's room and the edit bay. That's it. Like that's where I'm most comfortable and that's where I do my best work. Yeah.

It's like, fair enough. Yeah. Love it. Gang, always a pleasure talking the show with you all. Same, same. Thank you again to John Hortez for joining us for this episode. Thank you for listening. Yeah.

Please tell your friends about our show. We're still trying to grow the show. Yeah. Even as we are starting to come to a close. Yeah. Share, like, subscribe. We still got a whole other season. And sort of the back half of this season.

But like, subscribe. Support our sponsors. You know, all the usual. But thanks for joining us. And that was another episode of That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was a HitGum podcast.