That Was Us - Parenting Woes | "I've Got This" (510)

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

This week on That Was Us, we’re chatting about This Is Us Season 5, Episode 10: “I’ve Got This.” This episode explores the pressures of pride, money, and what it really means to provide for your family. In this episode, the hosts chat about: * Survival vs. dreams and how priorities shift in different seasons of life * Lessons they learned from their time on set * Which This Is Us cast member couldn’t resist eating the prop food * Navigating finances, including making more money than your spouse * Deciding where to spend the holidays as your family grows They also break down the episode, including: * Kevin and Madison hosting Kate and Toby for a sushi dinner that unravels * Toby secretly losing his job * Kate thanking Rebecca for a stable childhood * Flashbacks of Jack chasing a promotion and Rebecca stepping in to take over finances * Randall and Beth navigating family dynamics as Carol extends her stay * Tess opening up about dating Alex and Malik seeking advice about co-parenting * Beth and Carol’s emotional reconciliation * Nicky’s surprise arrival in Los Angeles" That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. On today's episode, if that was us, we're diving into season 5, episode 10, I've got this. As life with newborns sets in, the Pearson's confront pride, money, and the pressure to hold it all together. Kevin wrestles with what it means to provide Kate and Toby face hard truths, and Randall and Beth manage the growing pains of a full house. Okay, flights on air Canada. Where'd you want to go? The Azores?

For its hot springs and volcanoes? Hmm, speaking of volcanoes, what about Japan? Mmm, you know I love sushi. Not as much as I love tapas. Maybe, Mayorka. We could hit the beach, then go hiking. Hiking? Or how about a seaside stroll in Sicily?

Ooh, I do love canoes. Wait, what do you think of... With a world of destinations to choose from. Good luck picking just one. Air Canada. Nice travels. Hello, hello. What's going to all, y'all?

Hello. Here we are. Here we are. We're officially on the back half. Yeah, this episode, well, this season was only 16 episodes, right? That's right. So we've been on the back half for a second. Yeah, I dig it. There's a lot going on. This is the tension. There's a lot of things. What's foremost in my mind right now is the dinner between the Kate and Kevin and Toby and Madison.

And how that whole thing plays out. There's a lot of stuff else that happens. Like, there is a musculature to Tobias that I think we haven't seen maybe up to this point or maybe just fleetingly, but like just the pressure that men put on themselves, that society places on them to be provider. And just sort of like two different providers with very different perspectives on what it means to do so. It's intense. Yeah. It's intense. I don't want to jump around because we'll get to it when we get to it.

So you guys tell me where we're going to start with this joint. Where should we start? I mean, the episode starts with sort of a montage, right? Of, like, giving babies bads and changing them and feeding them. I mean, it's like it's Kevin and Madison, it's Toby and Kate, it's Jack and Rebecca. And all sort of with this beautiful song called How Lucky Can One Man Get, right? That's like Kurt Vile featuring John Prine. Another John Prine song.

Yeah. Do you like John Prine? Yeah, that's his favorite. That's the man. Okay. I guess we can kind of start with, I mean, because the Kevin and Madison and Toby and Cade storyline sort of in. Converge. They're interwoven.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess with Kevin and Madison, there is this, I, Kevin comes in and has a dress for Madison, right? Yes. And it's like, we should, like, we should get dressed up and maybe invite Toby and Kate over for dinner, like, be adults. We'll have our nanny kind of like help take care of all the kids and we can put them down and she can sort of watch them while we come out and have like, you know, a half a glass of wine. I can pump and have a half a glass of wine. Pump and have a half a glass of wine. She's very into this idea.

The kind of overarching theme amongst all the storylines is this like what life was like once we figured out the pandemic a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like over in Randall and Beth's house, all the girls are home. because it's the thing. Right. But also... Mama C. Mama C is there.

Yeah. Hovering over things. Kate and Toby, you see Toby on some kind of Zoom calls, Zoom interview. He's trying to find a job. Yeah, and it's all of this kind of like, what was life like when we were all still trapped? Yeah. But the bubbles were growing a little bit. Yeah.

That makes sense. So do we want to start at... Whose house do we want to start? Well, we could start with Kevin and Madison And the fact that, like, yes, they want to, they agree to have this dinner with Toby and Kate And gosh, I'm trying to see where they converge exactly. Kind of have to go back and forth between the two a little bit, right? Kind of because Kate and Toby, we see Kate, she's coming out of, I believe this,

is this the first time that we've seen her at this school for the blind, this musical, this music school for the blind? They say something about like we've missed you. Yeah, exactly. It's strange because I'm like, wait, where are we? What is this? Is it like, because she says in the last episode that the school needs a teacher's assistant. Yeah, but I just don't. I'm just racking my brain like, have we seen her there before?

I think so because earlier in the season, didn't you guys go together or you were resistant to go? Or is that another thing? I think that's another thing. I don't think there's a music class. I don't know. Maybe hot take, none of this makes sense. Maybe none of it makes sense. I know more about the music school once Kate is teaching there.

Like Rebecca goes in visits and stuff. But this is the first that I remember of it. Like, oh, okay. So she's coming out of class. And a teacher's like, we've missed you volunteering. And Kate's like, I know, I'm so sorry. It's really hard at home. Like having a new baby is just like it's hard to sort of like split

My time up. Maybe we just kind of jumped her in there so we could set it up for later. I believe so. That happens. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. I guess they're going to the school for Jack because he loves music. Yeah.

She works there and nobody knows where their dog is. Yeah. Great. Is that, did the dog just went away? Yep. During the pandemic. Audio. Gone.

He was put up for adoption. No explanation. Everybody else got a dog. Yeah. You guys got rid of. That's the spinoff is audio and William's cat out running around somewhere. Running around town. Cluny and audio.

Clooney and audio. We do get a sense of, we found out that Toby lost his job at the end of the last episode. Yeah. And so he's doing Zoom interviews. My man, like a champ, has got his baby off to his side. He's got an iron hooked up to the stroller or to the baby chair. Yeah, golf club. Rocking the baby at the same time.

He is in a, in a, I guess, like a suit, half of his. His suit up top, nothing on the bottom. He's suit and tie, but he's poo-bearing it, too. He's going to say porky pig, right? But so, like, all tops, no bottoms? Yeah, he's got, like, jacket. Tie. And poor guy has, like, a whole backdrop behind him that just, like, crash.

This was masterful, too, so it was like, so that happened. You know what I'm saying? I can't do anything about it. But it all fell apart. And it just sort of, like, leads to, let's get real. I've done about 30 of these things. Nothing's panned out. Do I have a shot at this gig?

Or should I just, like, get off the Zoom and go put on my pants? Yeah, I was like, you're our number one candidate. Yeah. Very charmed. So we'll get back to you. We're feeling good about it. Yeah. Toby's feeling really good.

I think the other thing, too, is like, he didn't want to tell anybody that he lost his job. Yeah. Until he had something else lined up, right? Fair enough. And I also say this. One of my favorite, I would like to to toot my own horn for a quick second. Yeah.

It's completely inconsequential. But at the end of this, Toby celebrates by swinging the golf club like a baseball bat. I don't know if you caught that. No. I closed that. I just found that really funny. I like it. So, tut, too.

Moving on. They're in the car on their way to Kevin and Madison's house. He's nervous about the new job, but he's feeling good. Sure. Yeah. Good vibes were sort of shared. He's, I think you've, like, reached out, like, sent another email, right? Or something.

Yeah. But don't tell Kevin. Yeah. Don't tell him I lost the job. I don't want to say anything until, like, I had a new job. There you go. He's, yeah. All of that aside, they get to Madison and Kevin's house.

Yeah. And he gets this email that he didn't get the job. He sort of, like, slyly gets the email on his phone. And he keeps it to himself. He keeps it to himself, compartmentalizes. There's also just. like this really interesting contrast going on in terms of like

Cav's got a butt ton of gifts. He's getting gifts from Glenn Close. He's getting gifts from... I was like, Glenn. You know what I'm going to do better? Please. Okay. You can step up your gifts game a little bit more. Tiffany's has silver spoons, please. He's got...

But like the what Pista Resistances, the couple of cohabas that he got from Leonardo DiCaprio's manager. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, man, let's go ahead and do these cohabas, right? And it's interesting because Kev, it's an interesting thing. Because I think when you're at a certain place in life, you get a chance to dream. And when you're not in that place, dreams are hard to conceive of. You have to survive.

Survive. And so you're dealing with a couple that is in survival, right? Because of that loss of job that has just happened in the experience and family. In the unknown future. An unknown future. versus someone who's in a very comfortable place and is really just sort of wondering, like, what is it all going to look like?

And like innocently, not even meanly, but innocent, right? There's no ego about it. None at all whatsoever. And in fact, there is this really generous, beautiful side of Kevin that's just sort of like, I want to share my dreams with everybody. Like my dreams are about everybody because my family is my sister and my brother.

brother-in-law, my brother. Like, he really, it's an interesting sort of turn in this episode to go, oh, your family tree is really about the family that you've created. Like, that is where your allegiance sort of stands. And so that's a very perceptible, has to be a conscious decision and choice and shift for Kevin because his entire life has been about, like he says later in the episode, which we'll get to, just like, I thought my whole family, like, was going to be about my mom and my dad and my brother and sister forever. Like, we were all going to live with each other forever. And in fact, he verbalizes this with Toby in this episode about, you know, they're outside smoking these cigars. Toby is noticeably in a very

different headspace than Kevin. And Kevin's just sort of waxing on about like... Buying a compound in Malibu. And they could all live there together and he's dreaming about it. He's kind of like, you know, checking out Zillow. By the way, like, I'm going to just, here's a tutute to for you. Like, the face that you give throughout all of it is just like, oh, man, you're not reading the room at all. At all. Yeah. Like, how lucky it is for you to be able to just, like, think about buying a compound. Like, I think he used compound. Was it the word, right? Yeah. And he's just like, all right, let me smoke this cigar. By the way, you never smoke a cigar?

No. You have, yes or no? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm not great at it. Cigars will get you fucked up. Yeah. Like, because you're not supposed to inhale.

Oh, yeah. But inadvertently, like a little bit, I got sick. And I think I did it once when I was like 19, 20, and then I was like, I think I'm good with cigars. Will you still do a cigar? No. No. Rachel's allergic to him, so even if I enjoyed it. I do not like the smell.

I smell. Taylor liked it for a while. And I was like, not all the time. Sure. Like celebratory, sort of thing, but he too got sick. Sorry, babe. To blow your spot. I was like, maybe no more for you.

As a young man, as a younger man, I was offered a variety of props for a scene in the nick. Yeah. It was an underground boxing. Oh, you did have a cigar in that. I had five cigars before 9 a.m. Because I said he's going to be smoking a cigar. and it's underground boxing thing and he's coaching this guy

and it's all sweaty and smoky and I just, you know, it's one of those lessons, one of those acting lessons. You know, if you guys smoke a... Don't brush your teeth. Don't brush your teeth. With real toothache. If you're going to smoke a cigar, you're going to be smoking a lot of cigars.

How did you feel? I was green. I was green. Okay. I was, yeah. I won't ever do it here. That was in. I think I almost learned a similar lesson during this dinner when they provided sushi. Did you kill the sushi?

Did you go? Did you go? Did you part-tuk? Come on. Was it good sushi? It was good sushi. It was good. It was really good sushi.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is the problem. If they had like gone low, like, no, but it was like, I'm not kidding. I think it was like, I don't want to say it was from like, not Noma, but, uh. Sushi nobu? Nobu. You think it might have actually been nobu. It looked.

Very fancy. And so I was like, well, then I'm eating this. Let me tell you one of my favorite things, our prop master, Rick, because we had a couple of people, but Rick in particular. And this is... Does Rick work on Paradise? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Love me some Rick. But Justin had this delightfully benign habit of eating prop food in between takes. What? He'd just be just relaxing. It's popping something. this mouth and Rick, Rick would just be standing there. Like, hey, man, you just go keep eating the food and can't.

Justin didn't even pay it any attention. He's like, this is delicious. Rick could just be like, okay, I'm going to have to replace all this shit. Yeah, but also, like, how long has I been sitting there? Oh, he didn't care. The man's got a stomach like iron. Not to blow up his spot, but have you ever seen anyone eat more candy? Ben Justin?

He eats a ton. Yeah. Probably a handful. A ton. But that's what it was. Like, he would just pick whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of candy.

I mean, like come back with two fistfuls of candy from craft services and put them on, put them next to it and just, and just built like an Asgardian. Yeah, but I mean, but also like nerds and like like candy candy. Milo and I would reserve it. We would we would have like a look between us when it was like, is it time? It's time. And we would know that would be like our acknowledgement that it was, we both needed a little sugar pick me up. And that's when we would go, like, treat ourselves and get a little candy. That's right. It was very few and far between times. But the face that you gave to him during the scene was very good and appropriate for

where you were in your journey. And essentially telling him, I don't think that's going to work. Right. I don't like Malibu. And he's still not reading the room. He's like, yeah, we don't want him to grow up and be stoner surfers. Like, no, that's not what I was talking about. I'm just talking about.

Summer is coming. It is almost upon us. The kids are going to be out of school. My husband tours professionally for a living. Yes, he does. So we're going to be following him on the road this summer. Oh, wow. He doesn't have like a full-blown tour,

but he'll have tour dates here and there. And it is always, always easiest for us and preferred to stay in an Airbnb. Absolutely. We need a kitchen. We need laundry. We need space. We need separate bedrooms. And all of that is only something that Airbnb

can accommodate. Absolutely. I've been using Airbnb for years. Yes. Same. And I use it not only for family travel, but for work travel. And when I go back and forth to the same city over and over again for a project, what I'll do is I'll pick a different Airbnb every time and explore different neighborhoods of that city. I love that. I love that. What a great idea, man. Here's the thing to think about as well. While you guys are gone on these fantastic trips staying in Airbnb's, your house is just sitting there by itself. It's just sitting there. It's a perfect opportunity to enlist the of a co-host. Yeah, because it can sound like a lot to put your house up to be listed,

but maybe you need a little help. Yes. And Airbnb has a co-host network that make it easy with all kinds of support. They can help you with booking guests, with communicating with guests, anything that you need to make it go supposed to. Absolutely. Earn a little extra cash that helps you enjoy your time away and give somebody else an experience that they're looking forward to as well by sharing your home.

And you can find out more, or you could find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Local news is in decline across Canada, and this is bad news for all of us. With less local news, noise, rumors, and misinformation fill the void, and it gets harder to separate truth from fiction. That's why CBC News is putting more journalists in more places across Canada, reporting on the ground from where you live, telling the stories that matter to all of us, because local news is big news. Choose news, not noise. CBC News. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower.

Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. On the other side, like, there's a beautiful thing that he's sort of like wanting these kids, your two kids under two and my two twins who are newborns, just to like... Grow up together. Family on the West Coast. Like, we're all from the East Coast. You're not from the East Coast, but like the rest of the Pearson's...

And to have family, to be able to grow up with your first cousins. As someone who grew... Like, first cousins were like brothers and sisters to me. Yeah. Because, like, my brother and sister are 14 and 12 and a half years older than me. Yeah. But I had other first cousins that were... within three years, two years of me.

And we were like... Siblings. Yeah. And I think that's what Kevin has designs for, like, everyone can grow up together. And he was talking about that. Like, we'll get... You guys could, like, drop your kids off here and we'll, like, have our nanny or we'll get a teacher.

And Toby's, again, he's just like, you're not reading the room, dude. It's a real class divide. Yeah. Totally. Totally. There's a moment. So we're at the dinner table. Yeah, sushi comes.

Also, real quick backtrack. Good. Didn't we all think that Toby owned that? company that he worked for? At one point in time. It was like IT solutions or something. Like he was the boss. There was something like that.

Or at least he was the, he was a high, may, he was telling people what to do. Sure. At his job. And then when he got fire, I was like, hey, wait a minute. The company dissolved. Yeah, writers needed to set something up for the future. Yeah, you were number three and it just wasn't, yeah, you got fired. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

At one point in time, Madison has to excuse her. herself from the table because she's lactating and gets up and going and they're talking about like, oh, don't you guys have, what's the toy, the thing that's, the snoo? The snoo. And he's like, well, we actually rented, Toby and Kate, we rented the first one for our boy and we decided like, I just bounce them, you know, I do my thing like that. And he's just like, you should have a snoo. Like, we'll fix that right now.

And it's just what I loved about. this scene is that like he has nothing but the best of intention. Of course he's like I didn't even get a baby gift for Haley. This is perfect. You're doing me a favor. And and and you can see Toby yeah as a man. Ooh and like and as a man watching it like I'm like nobody's right or wrong. Just everybody is where they are in life and they're in two different places. Yeah. One of the most valuable life lessons I have learned. Yeah. Is that you are not helping someone unless you are helping them the way they want to be helped.

Boom. That one. Period. Period. End of story. Well said. And I've had to learn that the hard way. Yeah.

And this is what's happening here, is that Kevin is assuming a certain level of intimacy with support as it relates to his sister. Right. Sure. And it's not being well discussed or considered. In Kevin's slight defense, he also doesn't have all the facts. Correct. Had he known that Toby had just lost his job, I'm sure like he would have been a lot more sensitive to just like, you know, deliriously offering. I mean, it is Kevin's.

But he finds out and then does double down. That's true. That's true. That's true. It winds because how's it come out? Like, you feel as if, like, you feel like his generosity is evidence that your life. Did you tell him? Right.

Yeah. Did you tell him? And Kate's like, kind of doesn't say anything. Yeah. Tell me what. And he essentially accidentally blows up his own spot. Yeah. You say that you lost your job and things aren't great, whatnot.

And Kate was like, but, but the good part is he already interviewed for another job and he's just waiting to. No, I don't. Nope. Didn't get that either. No. Sorry. So thanks everybody. This sushi's great, though.

But the rant, if you call it that, that you go on, is probably not the kindest thing, but also coming from a place of like, dude, you got, like when you said the thing about the nanny, like who does like the real work and everything and you just like drop the baby off or what have you, I was like, oh boy. Oh, yeah.

This shit is, is, is, Harry now. And even Kevin's like, hey, man, you can come after me. Don't go after Madison. Leave my woman out. She's doing an exceptional job. She's working so hard. And the room doesn't ever really recover. No. It doesn't. It's just iced out. Madison goes to take care of her kids and then Toby hears Haley crying. Haley crying. And now Kate and Kevin are left kind of staring at each other. Yeah. What happens? You guys have to tell me because I can't remember. Kate apologizes to Kevin for Toby.

I mean, they essentially have a conversation that is, you know, is... What I was alluding to before. Yeah, kind of sorry, not sorry. Like, I'm sorry that he lost his job and I'm sure everything will be fine. But again, what's mine is yours. Yeah. And Kate pushes back a little bit and he says, no, no, what's mine is ours, I think is what he says. Yeah, what's mine is ours is what I have written. And then Toby comes back out and says, I think we've got them both in place.

We're in a good spot to transfer to the car. And so she goes to get them ready. And then Toby and Kevin have a bit of an apology. He apologizes. Toby apologizes. Yeah. Okay. And Kevin says, you know, I've already had a falling out with one brother.

I couldn't. couldn't I couldn't stand to have it with another. And I feel like a real missed opportunity, like Toby would have, if he was in better spirits. Really? I'm your brother? Yeah, totally. If he was in a different head's face, that would have been totally in. Because there was such a bromance at the beginning. Like, you even go back to the park.

Brother? Brothers. Great. But he says, no, this isn't an epic Pearson meltdown. This is just a sushi skirmish. Would you guys say that this is the beginning of the dissolution of this union? Or would you say it? Because, like, I mean, we've gone through things before or whatnot, but we get into, like, this.

Would you say, like, this, losing of this job in terms of, like, Kate and Toby? Or is there something else that, like, I mean, I know this season later in the move to San Francisco. I'm jumping ahead a little bit or whatnot and buying the house, which I love to talk about without. telling your wife. But I'm saying like in this moment. Yeah. I think there is a moment if you, if you were going to backtrack from the disillusion, where this is a, this, this dinner scene is a whose team are you on? Yeah. Are we on a team or are you a Pearson? Forever on a team with your brother. Yeah. You even say to certain, you say like, we're a family. Yeah. Like we're a regular family and your family that like is completely out of touch sort of thing.

Yeah, yeah. And then when Toby's out of the room, he just says, I need you to promise me that if you ever need anything, that you'll tell me. Yeah. And she says, I will. And that's, that is obviously not a huge betrayal, but it is a moment of like, no. I hear you. I'm on both sides of the fence currently.

Right. Yeah. You're not wrong. I think they're laying the groundwork for what will have been. eventually come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you want to talk about Black Pearson's real quick? Yeah. Well, no, no, at the very end, Kate talks about how she will have his back forever. And also, she got a job at Jack's school. Right, right. And they're going to be okay, like, no matter what, they're going to be okay. But she's like, how about this is something I'm passionate about? This is

something I can do. Yeah. Because she mentions this, like, during the fight. She mentioned she could work, like, at the sushi dinner. Yeah. And Toby sort of poohs it, like, you know, you could go back to work, but, like, you wouldn't be making as much money as I've been bringing in. So then there's the quandary of paying for child care.

But the episode, this storyline ends with her being like, I have this job and we're going to, we're going to figure it out no matter what. Yeah. Which is like, okay, an adequate place to leave it. I'm curious for you guys as individuals. I know what society says, et cetera. So if and when you've ever found yourself in a position where your significant other made more money than you,

was it an easy thing to deal with? Yeah, because I was pretty arrogant. You're like, I'm going to get a job. But like when Rachel and I first met, I was like a Chicago theater actor. Right. You know, and she had a corporate sales job. Sure.

And she made a sales job. salary that she knew she was going to get at the end of every year. Totally. And, you know, I was Wild West, you know, commercials and voiceover and theater gigs and did fine, did all right. As it proves to this day, you know, as we were talking about, you know, going through our finances, it's a roller coaster. Yeah.

Some years, it's, you know, way up here. And other years, the W-2 says $7,500. Right. You know, and it's like, for me, it's, for me, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's like, for For me, I guess I've always been like aware that that was going to be a thing. So there have been times where Rach makes more money than me and times where I make more money than her. And yeah, it hasn't really been an issue for us.

But we have unconventional jobs. Sure. So we do have unconventional understandings of the normal gender roles. Mandy Moore, what about you? These gender roles of provision and who makes more or whatnot, has that ever been anything that has caused any sort of hiccup, not necessarily with Taylor, but with any relationship that you've ever had.

It's definitely caused hiccups, I think, in the past, but there was a real sense of awareness, I think, with Taylor, of what was what, and he's never been bothered by it. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah, we do have that unconventional gender norms of who brings home more of, you know, I guess, an income to provide for,

the family and whatnot in our life, but he does very well, all things considered too, in his line of work. And so it's we're, yeah, we're both, we're very lucky, but I'm also lucky to be with somebody who is, because I don't think it is a comfortable position that every man could assume.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I have never, I haven't been in the position making less. No, Probably half, because Rye was a series regular on Boston Legal for a short period of time or whatnot. And I remember thinking, I was like, I'm so happy for this chick, you know, and I hope she's as happy for me when my time comes. Like, I've always had in my head of like whenever it's my time, like I look forward to it, like, because this is cool. She gets to work with Shatner and Spader and everything like that. And I was like, man, when my time comes, this is going to be awesome too.

And I was just like, hey, pay these bills, baby, let's go. Okay, that's the end of that one, right? That is. That is. So maybe we can kind of stay in that world with Jack and Rebecca? Is this where she calls her mom at the end of this episode? Oh, yes. Yeah, because there's this kind of understanding of like Kate has this realization,

because that's part of the conversation that she and Kevin have about like, you know, we grew up a certain way, but we never realized, we never thought we didn't have anything. Yeah, mom and dad did such a. seamless job of providing for us. And so she does call her mom. Again, this was like a little scene that I did right before I gave birth. I was like, oh, I remember that. Like just scrolled away on a couch on the cabin set. She just calls to say thank you. Yeah, thank you. Like, again, I think becoming a parent gives you this newfound perspective for your own parents and the trials and tribulations they may have encountered. And she just has this deeper sense of appreciation for her

mom and the childhood that mom and dad provided for them with no help, no support. They did it all with three kids. Like, how did they handle all of that? And if we want, we could jump into the flashback here and then do the quick Jack and Rebecca storyline. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we can Tarantino it a bit. Sure.

Because it flashes back to Rebecca walking into the kitchen and telling Jack, I'm going to take over our finances. And you kind of see this moment of like. the matriarch taking control and being like no we can do this together and I'm gonna

and here's what my responsibility is going to be and here's how this is going to work which is kind of what Kate does too with like no I'm going to go get this job because I want to yeah in a way she was calling to thank her mom for I think modeling that for her

like you made this all work and she doesn't share that but like now in my own life I'm kind of doing the same thing because Because in this quick little Jack and Rebecca storyline, Jack is angling for a promotion at work. He's going to have this big dinner where she's kind of saying like, you got to, like, you got to like, you know, push the gas a little bit. And like things are really tight with three newborns who eat a lot and poop a lot.

I can't imagine. Jack doesn't want to go. He knows that he doesn't fit in with this type of crew. Anytime it's to wear a tie and coat, it's. Yeah, he's inherently uncomfortable. Well, you need to figure it out. Put on a little show and get this job. Yeah, get this promotion.

So he's at this dinner. Miguel is there. Miguel sort of like insists that he tell this baseball story. Boosting him up, of course, as Miguel always does. And Jack tells the story. And, of course, like, really wins over his bosses at work. They're like, wow, Pearson actually has a personality. Shout out to Ventimilia.

Yeah. Because, like, the deafness with which he starts to, the story is like, you as an audience, remember like, oh, it's not going to go well. Yeah, this guy, he's not comfortable, doesn't know what's going to happen. You know what I'm saying? The story maybe isn't that good. Right. And it winds up becoming something more.

And he actually, like, because to his credit, Milo Ventimini is a great storyteller. Yeah. Right? And so he starts off like he's not. And then ultimately sort of leans in and comes up with something that he knows is going to pull people in. And even Miguel looks at him, he was like, yeah, man. That's what I was talking about.

And then they finish off. the meal by playing something called credit card roulette. This is just awful. Which is a way to, for, for, I don't, I've never played it. But it's a- This is a pulling out your penis sort of thing, as you get it. It's all, but it also seems like a way to avoid having to go through,

no, no, I got, no, I got this, no, no, I, you know what? Maybe there wasn't a splitting it four ways back then or something. There definitely wasn't splitting it four ways back then. Probably not. I didn't think this. I didn't even realize this was around. And Sweet Miguel jumps in and is like, oh, no, no, no, Jack shouldn't have to pay. He can't expense this.

He can't expense this like you guys. And he's not drinking. And, of course, Jack, like, you know. No, no, I just got a master card. Yeah, I just got a master card. Like, he obviously wants to sort of. It was so sweet. And his card looks so thin.

It's so thin and brand new. Never been used. And they hold up the four cards and the server, of course. He says the master card. MasterCard. So he has to go home and explain to Rebecca why he spent $230 at this dinner. Which is so much money. Which is so much money.

And she was like, I asked you to get a promotion. I didn't ask you to go and spend $200. Like, how are we going to make this work? Which is essentially where then this phone call from Kate present days sort of weaves into the storyline. And then you see Rebecca kind of. have a bit of an about face and she goes to Jack like can we talk about this now

and he's like no I don't want to do and she's like no no I'm going to be taking over the finances from now on like I'm going to run this household I know what we need I know what we don't need so just like let me handle it moving forward and I think that's sort of what set this family up for working

that somehow Rebecca pulled a little from here and she made everything feel seamless for her family. This has happened in my family. It's the magic of moms and dad. Yeah, that's all my family, right. It is like Arlene Brown said, like, look, you're good at certain things.

I'm good at certain things. She said, I will do the finances. But this is interesting because they were married for 12 years, a year before I was born, almost 11 years, before he passed away. And then she said, after five years, she said, okay, I've been doing this this whole time. Now it's your turn. And she said, I'm going to show you all the bills that we have and what we have to pay at what point in time. And then he did it for the next five years. But it was a really interesting sort of thing because she took the reins first and then said like, all right.

Now it's your turn. So yeah. Very cool. Very cool. So that's how that ran in that storyline. Okay. And so over at Randall and Beth's house. Randall has made himself a nice, cozy little spot out on the porch.

He's got what kind of plant? the porch before. Is this the first time seeing the porch? I kind of feel like that. Yeah, we would walk through it all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we got to start to use it more, I think, towards the end. So Randall's out there with his basil plant.

He's out there with a lot of the plants, but the basil's his buddy. Basel's become his baby. Yeah. And Beth calls him on and she's like, hey man, I need you to come back in the house. He's like, look, I got a little bit of space out here. There's a lot of strong female energy in here. I'm so happy that your mom came to take care of the girls while we went to Louisiana, but like we've been back for a while and she's still here and I just kind of need

those space and she's like, look, you need space. Bras, she following me around nitpicking every little thing that I do. Guys, I don't know if you've had this. I'm imagining that you've had, but like when the in-laws or your own mom or dad come and what I'm learning is that the older generation just wants to be useful. Yes. Yes. What's the bar that you said about helping people, so?

Helping people only the way that they want to be out. A lot of mercy. Can we share that with them? Yeah. Because that doesn't seem part of the whole thing. They're just going to help because it's like, well, clearly you don't understand how to do these things. And so I'll just do them for you. And it's, oh.

So Beth gets Randall to come back into the house. And the girls are having like a little argument over what they're going to watch on TV. Somebody wants to watch NCIS because Annie wants to watch NCIS. And Deja's like, we ain't watching no NCIS. So they have this argument. I think Tess is talking about her friend. Alex. Alex and wanting to be in contact with Alex, et cetera.

And you see Mama C just walking down. And she's like, girls, come on. Turn out the TV. Straight up school teacher. We are going to have healthy snacks like popcorn chips, whatever Tess is eating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go. Let's go.

And you see Randall and Be. You see, Randall just like, hey, man, my name is Bennett and I ain't in it. I'm trying to disappear. And Beth is like, this is what I'm talking about. And, oh, God, you feel the tension. Beth had already established because she thought her mom was about to leave that she's going to make a dinner to end all dinners and show that she is capable of keeping a house and raising children and I don't need you telling me what to do.

Mama C winds up telling us, she's like, oh, Randall asked, hey, Mama, see what time did you train leave? She said, you're trying to get me out of this house, Randall? He's like, no, no, I would never say that. I just want to make sure you make it on time. All that kind of stuff, right? And she says, well, Amtrak has a no return policy. It turns out I extended it by a week because clearly you guys need my help.

And Beth is like, oh, man. So she goes through with this dinner anyway. She's making some Caribbean fare that takes scotch bonnet peppers or what have you. As she's making it, you can see, like Mama sees like, don't put too many of that. not everybody can take the heat. And she's like, I can take the heat, right? Oh, yeah. There's also a wonderful introduction of pronouns.

And we talked about pronouns a little bit earlier in this season. Yes. But I do remember for myself even the first time that I was introduced to this conversation, which was probably just a few years before we got into it on the show, and really having this idea of like, oh, this is new. I didn't know that this was something that was transpiring in the world. And I did a deep, like, YouTube dive, right? Because I was like, this is something that I should be familiar with, right?

And it was really interesting to see our show address it. Yeah. Because there's this innocence that Beth has in, like, someone to her eye who presents as a female calling her or whatnot. And Tess always being like, yo, how many times do I got to tell you? Alex is a they, not her. And I want to like shout out the writers and this whole arc because not everyone who doesn't get on board immediately is trying to be disrespectful.

Exactly. Right? Sometimes it just takes a minute. It's a new concept, yes, to sort of wrap your brain around. It's a new concept. It's a new concept. Exactly, right? But of course, Mama C points out, it's not that hard.

It's not that hard. She's like, I've been in school for a while. And yeah, and Beth is like, thank you. Everything is easy for you. I'm sure. Before we get to this dinner that's going to happen, Malik comes over. Malik comes to the crib.

He comes and he has a little conversation with Dajah, and she's like, what's going on? How are we doing? He's like, I need to talk to your dad. Is that okay, where is he? And she's like, oh, okay, I guess you go. He's on his porch. Yeah, you hear from my dad now.

Malik needs some advice. Randall loves. He's like, bro, I got all these living in the house. This is my shit. Let's effing go. And he's like, what's it about? Is it a career? Is it an academics?

Is it a women trouble? You date my daughter. It better not be about no women. He's like, actually, it's about my daughter. He's like, oh, okay. He's like perked up his ears. He wasn't expecting it. Turns out that Jennifer, who is the birth mother for his daughter, wants to be involved

with her life again. Yeah. Right? And he said it was complicated because originally her parents just wanted to put the baby up for adoption. we were going to be sort of on the outside of it. My parents put a squash to that. I'm raising the baby.

And I feel you might have a unique perspective over what you've gone through in terms of which way to go. He's like, look, man, every situation is different. So there's no, like, one thing fits all. But if I had an opportunity to have known my birth parents, I think it would have saved me a lot of time in therapy. Yeah.

So he's like, okay. I was in it for two episodes. Yeah, for two all episodes. You should save me. I went to Louisiana and everything. It was a big deal. So now we're at the dinner table and food's looking good. Oh, and she's pulled out all the stuff.

Pulled out all the stuff. She was hand-grinding the spices. I just hand-grinding the whole school. And the wedding china is out. Iron the napkins and everything. Do people still get wedding china? I didn't get any wedding china. You do China?

We got China. You did China? Well, the bird is old school. So like those things, those touches, very important to her. Yeah, great. So every Thanksgiving and Christmas, they come out. I don't know if they... You think it's still a southern thing?

Like, is it cultural? It might be. China? Because a lot of southern stuff is a lot of black stuff. You know what I'm saying? So those two things go to... Do you guys not break out China? No.

We did growing up, though. You did? We did have, like, fancy China for, like, yeah, for holidays. Holiday plates. Yeah, like Christmas plates, yeah, I guess. Were they fancy? Yeah, they were fancy. Yeah, yeah.

I think that might be the- From her grandmother that got passed down to folks, you know what I'm saying? So it's a big deal. That's cool. There is everybody at one point in time in the dinner, it pops on their phone. And Mama C says, well, at my school, we're not allowed to have our phones, you know, at the class or special events.

And Beth is like, yeah, right. And that's why we have a new thing here. Everybody put your phone in, and they all put their phones in. Including Randall. I'm just like, I'm a counselor. You know what I'm saying? but maybe not now. I put my phone in there too.

And things are going relatively well. Then Malik, and you guys let me know if I skipped anything. Malik's phone going on, she's like, can I check that? It might be about my daughter. And then it winds up coming out. Yeah, you, you, Malik and you keep making eye contact. And Dacia's like, what is going on? Yeah, what's going on there?

What's going on? And then she sees the phones like, why are you getting so many texts from Jennifer? Yeah. At the same time, I think Tess is getting texts from Alex. And then Beth is like, what does she want? Like, yo, man, how many times I got to tell you, Ma? Alex is a they, right?

Wines up coming out in the course of this whole thing. They're not just my friend. We're together. And then I think Malik winds up saying that, like, Jennifer wants to be apart. Yeah. And it's just chaos. Things are falling apart. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Another dinner just like falling apart. Yeah. But Tess also turns to Mama C and says, because Beth is starting to be like, oh, you didn't, I didn't know that you were, I didn't know that. And she's kind of a little flustered because she's been caught off guard. And Tess turns to Mama C and says, see, this is what I was telling you. This is how I said she would react. Oh, boy.

And referring that she's talked to Carol, her grandma about it, but not. her mom. That would, that would be, I can only imagine if Andrew Brown told something to his, his Gigi that he wouldn't tell to Ryan Michelle, oh, that would be gutting. Gudding. Gudding. Yeah. Okay. What happens with the rest of the day? So, you don't remember? Got it. We'll pick it up from here. Yes, so Tess admits that she and Alex are a couple. Beth is sort of in sense that she didn't know. Dacia is upset about Malik and Jennifer and him confiding in Randall, the dinner just sort of falls apart from there. And Beth feels incredibly judged by her mom.

Like, things are just not going well. Yeah. Deja goes outside, right, and finds Randall, is that what happens? And basically, it's just like, I have to admit, I'm worried about Malique and Jennifer and them liking each other again and that this is only going to lead to them. Like, they liked each other so much that they make. made a baby. They had a baby together. So what would lead me to not believe that them spending more time together in this capacity would lead them to not end up together again.

And she also says that like she feels like Randall and Malik, like he's taken his side. And he is supposed to be her day one. And he basically is like, forget it. I am always going to be on Team Day Like, no matter what, doesn't, right, essentially? Yes, yeah. And he says sometimes you're so mature that sometimes I forget that you're a 15-year-old girl who's in love for the first time. Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's hard to remember that sometimes. And then it kind of ends with him saying, like, can we go on her Instagram and, like, look at pictures of, and you do some funny.

You're like, Jennifer. Not duck, not duck lips with the filter. Jennifer. It's so Sterling. I love it. I was like cackling. I had to watch it twice. Meanwhile, Beth, Beth is upstairs.

She's followed her mom out of the room because mom has said, I'll go pack my bags. Essentially, because she's just sort of like, you make me flustered when you're here and she kind of loses her shit on her mom. She says, well, okay. I'll go pack my bags. And she goes upstairs. She's a shout out, Felicia. We have Felicia a shot on her show. Yeah, it's nuts.

It's insane. She's just so, like everything that you. She's so sharp and just like... She's sharp and effortless. Yes. At the same time, it is such a magic trick. And every time you see her, you're like, why isn't this show about her?

Yeah. I want more. She should have more to say. Yeah. And more to do. And more to do. Yeah. The Volkswagen Atlas is a 7C powerhouse that actually makes sense for real life.

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Rich, creamy, chocolate-a-ero truffle. Feel the arrow bubbles melt. It's mind-bubbling. But Beth follows her upstairs. Yeah. And essentially, while she's packing, it's like apologizes for raising her voice. Raising her voice. I shouldn't have done that.

But kind of doubles down on like, I feel judged by you all the time at every turn. And her mom essentially points out that she is envious of. Got a full house. Got a full house. You want to know what my house is like? Yeah. It's very quiet. Yeah.

She's like, I know what time it is during the day by the traffic patterns. By the traffic patterns. And I come here and like just the loud chaos of kids and crushes and all and being needed, like, all of that really. It's like, yes, she's rules. She has her sort of strictness, but she just like, that's why she stays. That's why she doesn't want to leave. Yeah. We forget.

We forget. And the episode essentially ends with Beth coming out to the porch where Randall is with his basil plant. With a brand new cooler full of IPAs for him. And he's like, oh, well, thank you so much. And she kind of lets the cat out of the bag that, like, by the way, my mom is going to be staying with us. She says, indefinitely. Your family treats our house like a Ramada Inn. So my mom is going to stay here for as long as she wants.

Okay, bye. Yeah, it's like, it's my turn now. Bye. I remember this. I remember this very well. And she just sort of like cutely walks out and leaves you on the porch with your beer. Yeah.

But also, you can't argue that. No, you can't. You can't. I've had plenty of family members in the crib. Yeah. I get it. It's all good.

That's that. And I would say the only other little couplet to address is the, um, Kevin and Madison, what, how this episode sort of ends, um, you know,

once Kate and Toby leave, they kind of have a little conversation about this idea of like, you know what, my family now is our family, is you, is Frannie and Nikki, and I have to sort of let go of this dream of the compound, like that's clearly not going to happen. But like I mentioned earlier in the episode, how he's like, I just always thought my family was going to consist of like my mom and dad and brother and sister and I, like, living together forever. And like, like, with, Which I'm curious if you guys felt this, like, the need of like a boundary, right, with your family of origin versus, like, your family that you're creating. Sure.

You know, where it's sort of like, you know, Taylor and I talk about this and it hasn't like come up in like a really profound way yet. But like the starting of your own family traditions. Right. The obligation you feel of like going to visit. Other family for Christmas. When is it like, when do you start those traditions of like, no, people can come to us. Or we just do it by ourselves. And maybe we go after the holidays or something like whatever that picture sort of starts to look like for you.

And I think Kevin is coming to this realization of like, I have to let go of my preconceived notions of what my life and what my definition of family was going to be with this new definition of family. Because it looks different. Because it looks different, and it is different. We just had that over the holidays. You know, my parents, or my mom, wanted to do our Christmas Eve tradition that we did growing up. Okay.

Like, you know, which is, you know, we'd come home from church, we would have hot chocolate, and we would get to open one gift from this certain relative who would send kind of wacky gifts every year. And I'm like, we're not doing that. Like, that's not, like, that's not, like, That's not what we want to do this year. And now what we do is we go over to Rose's house on Christmas Eve and have dinner there with the extended family.

And that's our chance to get together with the extended family. That's what we do now. And our kids don't drink hot chocolate at 8 o'clock at night. Before they go to bed. They're five years old. You know what I mean? Like, we've got to get them to sleep. Yeah.

And we don't have a gift. So Santa can come. It's a wonderful. Yeah. I still have 14 things to build. With you. But yeah, it's like, it's interesting. People want to hold on to these traditions,

but it was like, also, let's preserve that. Yeah. That was for us. Yeah. And that doesn't get. That's interesting. That doesn't get to be for everybody. Yeah.

That's what we did. Yeah. Like, yeah. There's something that, like what you were saying with Kevin, in my family, or between Ryan, Michelle and Sterling Brown, for the first five, six, seven years of marriage, I would refer to home as St. Louis. Mm.

And eventually she'd be like, you know St. Louis isn't your home. I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, this is your home. Yeah. And I was kind of like, oh. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Like me going to St. Louis is visiting my family, right? But where my wife and children are is my home.

Right. And we would get, because you could, You guys don't have quite the same geographic boundaries. Your family's still in Florida, Mandy, but you also have family out here as well. You got Sacktown. Like geographically, they're all gone. They're all away. So we would get mad stressful going back to St. Louis for every Christmas or whatnot.

But then she's from St. Louis too. So having to see like two different families. You know, I was like, how about we see your family for Thanksgiving is how we'd do it? And then we'd see my family for Christmas. And she's like, I feel bad being in St. Louis and not seeing my family. Yeah, that's weird. So ultimately, now, as of the past two years, I think we've been in L.A., and folks will come to us. And we get a chance to establish what's ours.

Yeah. It is important. And we're seeing Kevin sort of like really kind of think through that long term. And before that, we are interrupted by the very end of the episode, which is... Knock, knock, knock. Uncle Nikki at the door. He's come to Los Angeles. And he says,

you mean to tell me you only named one of your kids after your favorite uncle? And that's it. Smash cut to the end of episode. Yeah. It's a good episode. It's a great episode. It's good stuff, man.

I think we have my favorite segment of the show. Is this your favorite? Do you enjoy it? Well, look, we did this during our live show. We've done it a couple times on the pod. Yep. Our hot take segment. Hot takes.

So if you want to hear some real scorchers, you gotta stay tuned. All right, it is time. If you are a frequent listener to our pod, you know what's coming. We brought this segment out on stage doing our live show and it was electric. So we couldn't wait to do it on the podcast again. That's right. Hot takes! They're back.

They are back. Bold opinions, possibly controversial, feelings. Let's get into it. Okay, okay, okay. So email from Stephanie, the middle big three, McKenzie, Parker, and Lonnie should have been in the penultimate episode of the series, The Train. I understand that they were growing up, but there are a couple of scenes where Rebecca sees her children in each phase of their lives on the train, and they should have been a part of it too. I understand what they're saying. That's a hot take, but it's also you've got to get Walt off the island. They look so different, right? And they would have been like the age that the teenagers would

You know what I'm saying? At that time? Yeah. And I feel like Logan and Niles and Hannah looked closer to the way that they were in the beginning of the series. Yeah. That you're right. It would have felt too weird.

Like, what? These kids are almost the same age as each other. McKenzie's a giant. She's so tall. Yeah, yeah. The two kids are like right below. But we understand what you mean. We understand what you mean.

This is from Babylon, yeah. Hot take. It's weird to make your son's first name the same as your dead father, Rebecca, having to talk to Jack makes me sad sometimes. My son's son's first name. Are you talking about Cotobie's, Ben? Yeah, I was like, I don't know. Interesting.

I don't think it's that weird. It's not that weird. It actually feels pretty. It's sort of like, I find it comforting that, like, that person is still here. Like, we still get to hear their name. You know what I'm saying? That's right. That's how I feel about it.

But different strokes. It would have been weird if she had made Miguel go by Jack. That would have been weird. But naming her child, Jack, doesn't feel strange to me. That feels pretty. That is a hot take. That is a hot take. All right, hot take from Allie S.

The big three chant on the cabin steps after Rebecca's funeral in the finale felt very awkward and forced. I cringe every time. You can kiss my ass because that was one of my favorite things to do. All right. And I'll say this with love. You can kiss my ass. Because.

With love. Hot take. Hot take. cringe. No, man. Like, I felt like this was a sense of completion. You know what I mean? Like, it felt like what it felt like to me, because this is a thought that I have as my mother

is going through her own illness, what will happen to the branches of her children? Will they sort of, like, be disconnected from one another? Because the mom is sort of the thing that anchors and connections together. Yeah. I think that these three siblings were saying, like, We're in it together forever. Yeah.

Like, we will be a part of each other's lives. No matter what. And that chant was a declaration of that commitment to one another. I agree. That's my take. I appreciate your hot take, and I don't mean... They don't call them hot takes. Yeah, they call them hot takes for a real way.

Yeah, they're not lukewarm takes. Yeah, I don't mean in a mean way, but respectfully. You kiss my... I mean, maybe it wasn't the champion. Maybe it was that. Okay. Oh, this seems spicy guys from Jade. Go ahead. Take it.

Rebecca shouldn't have picked Jack. What? Jack is a great man, but the life he wanted for himself was drastically different from the life Rebecca always wanted. By being with Jack, Rebecca's dreams slowly but surely got lost inside Jack's dream. Rebecca wanted to be a famous singer. Jack wanted a quiet, normal, family-centered life. Those two dreams cannot easily coexist. It can work under very specific circumstances, but usually what ends up happening is that one person has to shrink so the other can expand, especially when the dreams require opposite lifestyles.

They were simply incompatible and blinded by love. That's the hottest take we've ever had. You know what? That's not a bad. It is well thought out. That is very well thought out. It is well written. Yeah.

Yeah. And she's not. Wrong. Wrong. No, she's not. Wow, we're all speechless. This is tough. Because she ain't lying.

Good, good, good, maybe. Can I explain how I always viewed it? Talk to us. Yes. That was Rebecca's. dream, but ultimately being with Jack, deciding to like hunker down and have a family, her dream did slowly shift and morph into like, actually, this is something I maybe never saw for myself, like coming to fruition in this way, but I love this person so deeply and I love

his dream. And his dream kind of became my dream. That's not to say that my dream ever died completely. as evidenced by its sort of re-emerging later in life when like circumstances did change and kids got older and opportunities sort of presented themselves. I feel like for the most part she's not wrong

but everyone's circumstances are so different. It's also like what you're describing is what in a world where everyone gets exactly what they want all the time? Sure. That's not possible. It's a realistic thing. It happens. I would say probably more often than not.

But I would say from, I'm not going to speak from a woman's perspective, but from what I've heard, that women frequently feel that they lose themselves inside of a marriage and only get defined primarily in the relationship to their husband and in relationship to their children. First couples therapy session, Rachel and I had before we got married, the therapist asked a siege what we were most afraid of in marriage, and that is what Rachel said.

Yeah. Losing herself. that I will lose myself in this couple ship. Beth Pearson said the same thing. Yeah. Can I also say for Rebecca, you know, when she really put herself on the line and was told that she, quite frankly, wasn't good enough for a record deal. Pittsburgh.

I wouldn't say that that, like, completely squashed every bit of her dream, but I think it kind of, she had to level with herself. Like, okay, maybe this isn't. I'm not as good as I thought I was. Maybe this isn't in the cards for me in the way that I dreamed or imagined. Her first acknowledgement of that was looking at Jack and saying, let's go home. And going back to Pittsburgh with him. You know what I mean?

I think before Jack and maybe at the beginning of Jack, like this was this dream. And it wasn't solely being with him that like killed it or shifted it in some way. It really was being told like, I don't know if this is for you, lady. that I think allowed her to sort of reframe, okay, well, what do I want my life to be? Yeah. If this isn't. I hear you.

You know? Yeah, in terms of your own arc. In my own arc and explaining that to myself. And the flip of this is, are you supposed to abandon every other good thing in your life? Or are you supposed to ignore other people's dreams? Yeah. For your own.

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, this is, this is, this is. the same thing that Kate runs into, which is like, you didn't get the job because you're not good enough. Yeah. Like, you're a good singer.

Right. But in this case, like, just because your dream didn't work out doesn't mean that you were wronged. Yeah. I would also say this and Jade used sort of like to be on her side, because my wife has told me this, and I've heard this from other women, men usually don't lack in confidence even if they don't have great ability, where women with great ability frequently lacking confidence in a very interesting way.

Like when people from the outside look at like incredibly capable women, they're oftentimes don't see themselves in that same way. And dudes who are cool or greater, but they think they're awesome or worthy or is their right to go out and have their dreams being met and fulfilled? Like I feel like this is a very woman-specific take that. deserves merit. It's a merited take. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Jade, you good take. Good, good take. Warm take. I got this one. Hot take from Brit Bitpix. Hot take. It was a missed opportunity not to include Shauna and Deja's life, even if only by phone call as the series went on.

It's a hot take. We did include her to a certain extent. Yeah. Right? But then people get jobs. You know, you're trying to tie up. Tie up storylines. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Availability. Sometimes. People are available. You know what I'm saying? There was a worldwide pandemic. What do you want us to do? Yeah, shit got hard.

Hot take. I loved the COVID storyline. Hey. Oh, all right. These will be the stories we think back on and share with our kids, but we have season five of This Is Us to prove it. I think so. It's a nice little time capsule. Exactly what we were talking about last time.

It's a time capsule. That's from at call. Callie. Yeah, good take. Okay, Catherine, Catherine P. Hot take, This Is Us, does not feel like it was set in Pittsburgh. Not once is a yins dropped in the whole show. And it's weirdly flat.

Pittsburgh is many things, but flat is not one of them. Really good. Pittsburgh is very hilly. Really good. It's true. It's so beautiful there. I love Pittsburgh. Blame Fogelman, because we don't know like all of the stuff that we should have probably known.

I lived in New Jersey and in Philadelphia. So I think I was okay. Yeah. Yens and do they also say John? John is over a lot of places. Hand me that John there? Yeah, that's a few different places. But Y.

That what? John. John. J-A-W-N. Yep. It's like a thing. Thing. Yeah.

What's over that, John? Yeah. But Yen's is specific to Pittsburgh. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good, that's a, that comes from somebody from Pittsburgh. Yeah, of course, Catherine. Sorry about that. You got it.

It's a lesser known y'all. This is a fiery hot take. You got this one? No, no, no. No, no. Okay. Fiery hot take from Safe Ray. I know y'all call him Nasty Randall,

but I think going to Howard would have been better instead of staying close to home. He would have struggled less with his identity and still maintained a healthy relationship with his family. Beth still needed to be there, though. It's a hot take. And my wife called him Nasty Randall. She's the first person to call him Nasty Randall.

because he was hooking up with all his TAs and everything. There's something about being, and it doesn't happen for black people with great frequency in this country where you get a chance to feel like you are part of the majority. Yeah. Right? Where you're not navigating primarily white spaces

and you're giving head nods because like, hey, there's another brother here. I see you, bro. But when everybody's a brother, you can't give head knots to everybody because you're just doing that. A whiplash. And so I completely and totally understand

what you're saying. If Beth were there and he had that opportunity, it wouldn't have been bad. I think Randall himself is the person who chose. I think his mother would have loved for him to go. She never would have asked him to give that up. He, Randall's sort of savior complex need to be of service was the thing that he took that away from himself. Yeah. So, yeah, understand the take. Yeah. Good one. Hot take. We should have seen the fallout between Rebecca and Shelly. We don't see them interact after they get divorced, and that's especially odd after Jack's death. That would be the time when Rebecca needs her friend the most. We just didn't have a lot of Shelly at all. We didn't have a lot of Shelly at all. These said the Pearson's... Not enough, She said

I love when. We didn't have a lot of friends on the show. TV families don't. No, they don't. We don't have the time. We got 42 minutes. Yeah, and we got to interact with each other. Each other. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Yeah. You'll know, you'll know. You'll know, there aren't a lot of friends on TV. Hot take, we got a what if Jack survived the fire episode, but we also should have seen a what if Rebecca died in the fire episode too. Oof, okay, well, that's an interesting take.

That would have been an interesting sort of thing to explore because our lot, it just would have been a different show. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like being raised by a guy who does, what were the sandwiches that Jack made for his kids? The corn sandwiches? Yeah.

would have been deeply malnourished. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, things. This is like saying, Hot take, I want to see a different show. A totally different show. A totally different show.

Yeah. It's a good take. It's an interesting thought. That's it. That's all our hot takes, you guys. They come with good hot takes. Yeah. These were solid.

We love this segment. Keep sending them in whenever we beckon you to send us them because it is so much fun. this was this was a great episode guys five ten we're officially past past the halfway mark of season five yeah keep helping us grow the show I know I know it feels like we've been doing this forever but please keep continuing to like and subscribe and sharing episodes let us carry this through to the end

and there's some big changes coming up maybe in the near future and we want to keep growing the show and we're trying to figure out you know when we're done with episodes to watch yeah what do we do What's next? What do we do? Do we continue doing something altogether? What's us?

I can't imagine not seeing you guys now. That's right. With some regularity. Yeah. We figure it if you guys have some ideas for how the show would continue post. Yeah, let us know. Let us know. We're open to ideas.

In the meantime, in between times, Mandy. No. Chris. You say it. That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Grin Productions. Griffin Goldsmith.

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