That Was Us - Take a Chance | "The Beginning is the End is the Beginning" (309)

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

On this week’s episode of That Was Us, we’re talking all about Season 3, Episode 9: The Beginning is the End is the Beginning. If you thought the writers on This Is Us had done a phenomenal job with weaving stories together from different generations up until this point, you’re in for a treat in this episode! From Randall’s City Councilman debate, to Kate and Toby finding out if they’re having a boy or girl, to Kevin’s visit to Vietnam and what he discovers about Jack’s time in the war, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling talk about it all! They also dive into what they need to fill their cup up in their personal lives and close out with a heartfelt fan letter you won’t want to miss! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Get a free can of OLIPOP: Buy any 2 cans of Olipop in store, and Olipop will pay you back for one Works on any flavor, any retailer - URL: drinkolipop.com/TWU - OLIPOP is sold online (drinkolipop.com + Amazon) and available in almost 50,000 retailers nationwide, including Costco, Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Foods, Kroger and HEB. - Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:07:03 Fan Segment 01:20:13 End Credits Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz, Rob Holysz & Jeph Porter Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards #thisisus #thatwasus #rewatchpodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of that was us, we're diving into season three, episode nine. The beginning is the end is the beginning. Randall goes head to head in a debate for city councilman amidst changing tides in his household. Kate and Toby find out the sex of their baby, and in the past, Jack struggles to get Nikki on board with his mission. Mandy, Chris. Sterling. How y'all doing?

Sterling K. Brown. Hey, hey, hey. Coming to you live from Rapid Grin Studios. 309. 309. Here we are. Here we are. Technically, halfway mark.

Halfway mark in season three. Halfway. It all feels very full. Mandy has said this before. 7, 8, 9, 10. It's like its own little film. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

I think Vietnam being sort of the thing that sort of holds it all. Yeah, the thread. Pulls it in. But Lord have mercy. Like, I had quite an experience watching these two last night. I was on the plane watching, and I finished 9 and 10, and then I texted the group. I was like, the show is good.

Show slaps. Yeah, it's slaps. It's still, it holds up. Yeah. At least one person had another airport experience. It would be like, is that Mandy Moore watching this is us for an entire flight? Taking notes on her phone like a window. And crying and laughing.

crying and laughing at her own scenes and then like exactly applauding her own scenes i listen i had that moment a couple of times and not and i don't think it's a weird thing i want to explain this like because it doesn't feel self-congratulatory i was like i'm watching the show as like a fan watching the show correct and we and we are in the seasons now where we talked about we're like seasons one and two are just memorable because it's like we started we had all this adrenaline we had all this this this uh kind of momentum going into it and they're like burned into my brain which is why season one felt like every episode was sure a huge momentous momentous moment yeah and then seasons five and six were more recent and they're just fresh in my brain and then seasons three and four

are like a fever dream yeah that are coming back to me with each episode which is kind of nice it's a fun experience to put the show on and not know what you're going to get yeah yeah and and this and this episode especially, because it starts out in a way where it's structured in a way that I don't think an episode of our show has been structured up till now, right? Like, right? It's a new structure for an episode where even within the episode, we're jumping around in time in a different way to where when I started watching it, I was like, did I skip an episode? Why are they?

Oh, seven weeks. Well, that's the next episode. That's 310. Right. I'll talk about it later. You guys. But you're right, but you're not wrong. The beginning is the end is the beginning.

This show is great. We're talking about the studio, right? Seth Rogen's genius. How does this episode start? It starts in Vietnam. Jack is, you can hear him talking to, like, Nikki's CEO, saying I need more than a couple of weeks because he's sort of been given a couple of weeks

to get his brother back in fighting. Trim sort of like ship, shape, where I don't even know if Jack knows exactly what he needs to do, he just needs to sort of get him sober. Yeah, detoxed from whatever he was on. There you go. He's asking for, can I have another couple of days, something like that,

right? They're not budging on that rule. Not budging on that rule. You know what, let's see. I'm finding it easier. Let's... Gang, what do you think about this? Because if we've never actually had this conversation... Uh-oh.

No. Okay. Is it easier? Because I think in my mind I have one take, but I want to get a, you know, consensus to take one storyline all the way through an episode, which is kind of like we've done for the past couple. Or is it just like go in the order in which they occur in the show. I feel like that's more confusing. You think it's more confusing because it's just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Yeah, it's like just to see through a whole storyline and a character and like what is happening in an episode feels like a little easier to follow for me. Right, right, right. And that's even, if you go into a writer's room in a room, they'll have, like, color cards of like, this is Randall & Beth's storyline. This is Kevin's storyline. This is Jack's storyline. And then you figure out how you break up. And then you figure out how they fit in together. So let's do it that way. I just want to make sure that we're on the same boat on that. So then we'll stick to Vietnam in the past first. Right? So he wants to take his brother. He's like, I want to take you somewhere. I want to show you something. And Nicky's something. And Nikki's sort of checked out, and he's like, what are he talking about? Like, just leave me alone. Like, let me be where I am. And then at the end of the scene, he's like, what is it that you want to show me again? And he

just sort of takes him, like, across the lake, right, to just get a little bit of distance from the space that they occur. And he starts talking about, let's make this a distant memory, right? Like, you know, this is a period of time in our lives that, like, you didn't want to be here,

I didn't want to be here. Let's just finish the mission. And get home. And get home. Nicky's like, the mission is to kill people. He's like, no, bro. The mission is to get the blank up out of here alive, right? And so he's just trying to show his brother, like, maybe if you just get a little bit of space from it, if you don't feel like so immersed, like it's sort of inundating you,

but like it's something that you can see with some sort of perspective, maybe it'll be easier for you to just realize, like, oh, just one step at a time until I get myself home. Sure. Right. Nicky at a certain point winds up ruffling through a backpack and finding some meds to get high on again Finding some meds to get high on again and then Jack winds up encountering him and you can tell Nicky's in an altered state and Jack sees it almost immediately He's like sitting on the end of the dock right and it's just like things are not right

It's it's not good at all he says where'd you get it from and and Nikki winds up saying something to the fact like I don't want to get clean Jack Like I see it all again when I'm clean right right and it's it's not And it sort of just sort of made me think of oftentimes. I don't know. And anybody wants to speak to this because I think it's a really important, powerful thing is like, you know, what leads to addiction, what leads to people abusing substances, right? Is a desire oftentimes to not feel all of life, right? To anesthetize to a certain extent.

Yeah, I mean, it's, we see it a lot in the show. Yeah. In different characters. But it's essentially looking for trying to escape yourself using external forces. Right. Whether it's Kevin or or Kate or even Toby. Toby uses, I don't know, sometimes he uses like a sense of humor or to avoid the anxiety, right? And to sidestep things and to not really face them but to go work around them.

But yeah, I mean, this is, this is, and I can't imagine this war, I mean, any war, but this war in particular was such a traumatic experience for everyone involved. Yeah. Especially as it was happening. And the, and there's kind of no denying that our country here at home was changed because of the people who went through that. Yeah. Because when they came back, there was no support. for them and there was no help and they came back with addictions and with traumas and having seen and had to do horrifying things and sent there not volunteer it like sent there it wasn't a volunteer situation and um yeah hearing him and seeing him and feeling the desperation of needing to numb himself of course you have compassion it's like yeah i i can't even begin to place myself in those shoes and what it must have felt like. And we all have different inclinations and

reactions to traumatic things and this was his. And it was just interesting that Jack's sort of reaction to that is like, like, doesn't matter where you got it from. Let's, we're going to get you clean again. Like, you know, Superman, feeling like the weight, the obligation, the responsibility was on his shoulders and his shoulders alone to fix his brother. Yeah. And it's such a, it's, we are only experience of it is through these films and these television shows and and you see these young strong actors, you know, reenacting these horrifying things. But these are 18, 19, 20-year-old kids. Blue-collar, you know, middle class or lower, mostly poor kids who couldn't find a way out, couldn't get a college student exemption, couldn't get, you know,

whatever the exemptions were, and they had no choice. And, like, look at an 18-year-old in your life right now. What are they, like, at 18, I could barely, I could barely stay in my lane while driving. Yeah. Like, let alone go to a foreign country and be asked to do those types of things. So it's still, it's unfathomable to me. Unfathomable. Absolutely.

Nikki doesn't want to complete this mission. That's sort of where that kind of ends until the end of the episode where Jack can't find him. and is sort of looking all around for his brother. And then the episode ends with this. We hear an explosion. And it's something that happened out on the water, I believe, or do we not? I think there's a boat. There's an explosion on a boat.

Yeah. And somebody says, I think one of our guys was out there. Yeah. And JP, like the dude that he is takes off running into the water. Into the water. Swimming out to see who's out there. Yeah. And we don't add.

And that's where that storyline ends. That's where that storyline ends. But we've recently seen Nikki in an all. It stayed and we're like, oh, God, what's going to happen then? All right. And we're also led to believe, right, as Kevin has, that his uncle died in the war. Right. And so maybe this is the answer to that question.

This is how it happened. Bing, bop, boom, boom, boom, bap, bam. So we should go to Kevin's old. Type of shit I'm on. You wouldn't understand. One of the characters that Will Ferrell and Gastiron play when they do, Oh, the church singers? They do, they're not church.

I think they're high school music teachers. Oh, yes. The type of shit I'm on, you wouldn't understand. All right. Okay. Kevin Zoe. Kevin Zoe in Vietnam, um, cab's getting anxious. It's been raining and they can't go out and do any of the, like, field work that they wanted to, the leg work to sort of answer these questions, right?

That he came to Vietnam with. Right. He wants to know who was the woman wearing. his dad's necklace, right? And she's kind of like, you can't force documentaries to happen. You just kind of have to like follow where the evidence leads. You can't force the story period in life.

Yeah. Period. He has an idea of what this necklace means and he's trying to line up an answer with the story he's already written. Yeah. It's kind of boggled my mind about like it's no wonder making, first of all, making a good documentary is so hard. And it takes so long

Yeah. Because you start with an idea and you just see what happened. It may take you in a completely different direction. Over however many years. Yeah. That's also, listen, it's not a documentary, but like you guys, we've all had the experience. And not so much on this as us, because I think pretty much what we wrote is what people wind up seeing. But have you ever had an experience of like shooting something and you thought it was going to be this?

And then in the edit it becomes something completely different? I haven't had too much experience with that, yeah. I've had a couple of a couple, where something has changed so completely from when I got into it and when it ended and you're like, oh, damn, I didn't know I was signing up for that. Yeah, I've had that happen on stage. Have you?

Where I've, like, think I've read it. I'm like, oh, okay. And we show up to rehearsal. And I'm like, oh, this is, all right, okay. You want to speak to it? Haitistown was not what you thought? Oh, no, Haiti Town was everything I thought it was going to be in more. This was, it was really my own.

ever like really bad experience with a theater production where I was like two weeks into reversal being like can you quit these things like can you quit jobs that's grueling because it's so immersive and you can yeah like it's like oh this ship's going down yeah yeah I'm going down and I'm on it and I don't want to go down and I don't want to yeah there's a group of people involved who you don't want to not it's not it's not everybody's fault sure sure sure sure sure sure um they have we have a couple of like really beautiful montages of because just taking advantage of the fact that we shot in Vietnam of where you see Jack walking through certain places or whatnot. And then you see

Kevin traversing the same ground. I thought that was really poetic and beautiful too. And of course like beautiful Sid's score. I was like, oh, okay. Yes. Touching the heartstrings. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So Kevin Zoe, they show a picture of the father. So they find this dude who was alive during the war. And sort of has, it's like a de facto, like, local historian, right? That lives in the village. Yeah. So he's looking to see if he can find some connections from this guy.

They have a guy that's taken him through and, you know, in order to hook up the guy, like he has to do some sort of manny thing in order to, because evidently the manny. A shirtless selfie, obviously. Shirtless selfie, obviously. We should have Justin talk about that completely forgot. Anyway, he goes, he talks to him, it shows the picture. Man doesn't recognize it. his dad shows the picture of the woman with the necklace doesn't recognize the woman with the

necklace. This is not going the way that young Kevin was hoping that it was going to go. I came all this way to get some answers. And the dude, this was kind of like a beautiful thing because he's like, listen, my dad, the Vietnamese man, like we established that he was VC, that he was on the opposite. These two men were at war with one another. Yeah, Kevin's dad and this gentleman's dad. And basically he sort of tells the story about like how my dad was a great storyteller and like he wouldn't tell us about what he did in the war, but he would come up with all these fantastical places that he had been to or whatnot, like he was on some sort

of mysterious, mystical journey of sorts or whatnot. And that, you know, what he was doing was keeping the bad from me by sharing these other things and not bringing that part home. And he goes, like, now, maybe we're not the same or whatnot, but maybe that's what your dad did for you. Yeah. Right? And whatever it is that you thought you were going to find, like, maybe it wasn't that, but maybe it's the beginning of finding something else.

Right. Yeah. Right. That's the gist. Yeah, like, we're not too dissimilar. We both had fathers that were sort of actors. They kept things from us in order to, like, what did they write down? Yeah, they both hit their war stories and pretended to be okay for their kids.

Yeah. And now here these two men sit. They're happy, healthy, sharing a meal where their dads once fought. Maybe that's the answer to something bigger. Come on. You know? And that was like, wow, how profound of this man to realize. But he was disappointing Kevin by not having the information he thought he was going to provide.

But like you said, it was opening the door and leading to something perhaps more profound and way bigger than he ever could have imagined. Yeah. So then Kevin, Zoe, Kev's feeling kind of down, like, ah, I'm sorry, dragged you all the way out here for nothing. Zoe points out like, yeah, we got a chance to walk the same land that your dad did. Like, that's something, you know? Maybe we're in the middle of, maybe we're just in the middle of something, right?

Referencing the title again. You tried to work in This Is Us a few times into the show, but it never, never quite worked out. Not this time. So then... But this right now? This is us. Boom. There you go. There we go.

So at the end, like the guide is sort of saying, like, I was looking up something about your uncle, Nikki, or whatnot. He's like, you sure he died in the war? He's like, yeah, he died in the war. He's like, I don't know. He's like, what do you mean? It's like I went to the database, looked at all the people who died here, whatever. I'm not finding any Nicholas Pearson, so he may have died, but I don't think it was in the war. Wasn't in Vietnam. Wasn't in Vietnam. And then we see this trailer. go ahead this is where we see a shot sort of silhouetted of a man in a trailer but I believe then

there's something that tells us this is Nicholas Pearson maybe it's male on his counter possibly yes yes because then we're led to believe like oh my god he's alive although we don't know is this present day is this like what is this right but that's how the episode ends and that was when I exclaimed on the airplane like oh my god yeah yeah yeah it is such like it gave me this feeling of like it's part of the montage it's part of the montage and it's also like unmistakably griffin and griffin is once we get there such a huge fabric of the show that like oh my god he wasn't here until like almost like the end of season three was that episode 102 no we saw we saw him silhouette i'm just reading i'm reading the thing right right right so that's

that's the cool thing like and i think that's sort of like the end is the beginning Like, yeah, it's all the same story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. Okay, be honest. How many of you have had a soda drawer growing up? I had a soda drawer. You had a soda drawer?

I did. Or were you more of a special treat with takeout soda family? Special treat with takeout family. Special treat with soda. I drank soda all day every day. Oh, geez. It was a real problem, you guys. Yeah.

I mean, root beer, all the different flavors. Yeah. But I was a Dr. Pepper. I was a Dr. Pepper. My brother loves cream soda. Yeah. There's all these things. I used to try cutting out soda completely, but I missed the flavor too much.

I like that flavor. An alipop is my happy medium. It's low in sugar, high in fiber, and actually good for your digestion. Yeah, it's the first soda that I've had in years that doesn't make me feel like I need to lie down afterwards. I mean, truth be told, until Ollie Pop came in the picture, I had abandoned soda for years and years. It just didn't feel good.

I didn't like the way my stomach felt afterwards. Yeah, yeah. But Ollie Pop has just changed the game. And of course, like, we've got the grape soda. We've got the classic grape. We have the orange crush. It's the best. You got that crisp out.

I can't talk about Oli Pop without shouting out the gut health benefits. Shout out gut health. Come on now. Nine grams of prebiotic fiber in every can. That's huge. And the flavors, bro. I mean, legit, from vintage cola to strawberry, vanilla, and the new lemon line, they're seriously nostalgic and taste just like the originals without the sugar spike.

The vintage cola has just two grams of sugar as compared to regular Coca-Cola, which has 39 grams of sugar. No way. Go on YouTube. Watch them measure out 39 grams of sugar. No, bueno. Two out of three Americans say they suffer from digestive issues, and 95% of Americans don't get the daily recommended amount of fiber. Olipop is tackling both of those issues with a drink that tastes just like soda. Alipop is sold online at drinkolipop.com and Amazon.

And it's also available in almost 50,000 retailers nationwide, including Costco, Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Foods, Kroger, and H.E.B. and you can even get a free can. Buy any two cans in store, and Olipop will pay you back for one. It works on any flavor, any retailer. Just head to drinkollipop.com slash TWU. That's drinkollipop.com slash TWU. Your gut will thank you.

Thank you. That was your gut thanking you. The conjuring last rites. I think I'm not here with you! Array! The Conjuring Last Rites, only on the theater, September 5th. Okay, so let's do Cotobie. Is that good?

Yeah. Checking the ultrasound. Baby looks good. Everything's looking good. Healthy. Moving right along. Toby wants to wait to find out the sex. Kate was like, oh, I could have.

But I'll be quiet. I don't, you know, something happened. I don't know what that's about. But I ain't going to worry about it for right now. And the doctor sort of mentioned something, right, about. Trying to eliminate... Doesn't want her sitting around for such a long period of time

or blood pressure isn't where she'd wanted it to be. She can't be driving to the singing gigs. Because it takes a couple hours sometimes where she goes. So you need to find something else, right? Yeah. She has a conversation with Madison and tells her that she has to stop her job or whatnot.

Madison's like, yo, I know about an opening at a school. I think it's Martin Van Buren school, et cetera. You would be perfect to be a music teacher there. She goes, Kate goes, meets with the music teacher or with the principal of the school. And he's just beaming from ear to ear. She's charming the pants off this dude. She's like, Kate, he's like, Kate, you had me at hello, right?

Let's make it happen. Where'd you go to school? It's the hard knock life for Kate. And you can't, at a public school, and this is true, you have to have a degree. Yeah. You have something. You have something, usually in education. Yeah.

I mean, that would be helpful. Because honestly, like, at private schools, you don't always have to have an education degree. But in public schools, I believe you do. I think you do, yeah. I believe you do. So that, you know, she got all excited. Now she has to sort of pump the brakes right there. Yeah.

Goes home. Kate's feeling sad that she didn't get the job. She needs, she says, she needs other things going on in her life. And I just wanted to take a quick pause on that one in terms of just, Manny Moore, you are a mother, you are a singer, you are an actor, or whatnot. Like, if any of those things was taken away from you, you'd feel the void of it. Yeah? Yeah.

And just I just want to speak a little bit to, like, what does it take to be fulfilled in motherhood, right? And I ask that, like, because sometimes I think people have this idea, men, in particular, sometimes it's like, well, can't you just focus on? right? And it's like, well, me as a dude, you would never ask me to just do, like, stay home. Focus on one or the other. Focus on one or the other. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just, I'm just curious for you, like, in terms of, because you start the show, no kids. Now, three kids or whatnot. What does the balancing act look like now as opposed to before? How much time do you have? No. I mean, I feel like I'm still figuring that out and probably as like parents and feeling like new parents. Like, you're still trying to calibrate, like, what does this look like?

And I think as you reach certain milestones and they get older, like, things shift. I mean, I'm sure they have for you as well and have for Ryan. Like, your kids are older now. They're not like, you're not, you know, they're not in preschool or they're not in school at all. Or, you know what I mean? So I think it collectively gets easier in some regards. But, like, I think it's just always going to be a balancing act of, like, figuring out. how much time each certain cup, like, deserves.

You know what I mean? Like, right now, I think because I have been pretty, like, family-focused for the last two years and haven't really had, like, a ton of work on my plate, I feel like I need to fill that part of my cup, like, desperately. I'm just, like, the creative side of my identity and who I am, like, feels like it's dying on the vine. Yeah. Yeah. And so like that will be nice to do a little bit of that. But I also am curious of how it's going to feel because I have been so dedicated to the family side of my life. And even just like leaving to come and do the podcast for a couple hours, I'm like, I get home and I'm like, oh. Everything's right. Yeah. I'm like, I missed you guys. You know. We're like going for work for one day or something. It does feel like there is a noticeable shift in my life that will be. interesting to see how it really feels to dip my toes back in those waters. What about you guys?

I can say for the bird, this was really interesting because she had a couple of jobs in New York while, you know, we have our kids. And when she did this one end game for NBC, she came home every weekend. Yeah, I remember that. And I was like, Bird, if you need to take a break and you want to relax and do something for yourself, like it's okay. Like everything here is solid. And she was like, no, no, I'm seeing my children. Yeah, because it's not about like, I'm sure she was like, I know you have it all held down, but it's like, yeah, there is that like, the tether.

Yeah, you need it. Yeah, but I will compare and contrast because sometimes I'm like, you know what, I'll take advantage of the break. And I'll, you know, so it's a very interesting to see how we both sort of deal with it. And it's not like I don't want to be present or whatnot. No, no. I'm also just sort of like, all right, if I, in this moment, get this rest, when I show, up, I will be a better version of myself than if otherwise.

Yeah. Absolutely. You got any thoughts? I mean, it's all a spiritual practice of non-attachment to the current schedule, like the current what is. Like in my life, I love a routine. I like a schedule and never has my life been more ever changing. Yeah. As soon as one kid is like, oh, this is what we do now.

Right. They grow. Yeah. And it changes. The ultimate disreuthers. And the ironic part is that a lot of the struggle or pain in any of our lives is when Rachel and I don't let go of what was quick enough. Like they're telling us, they're telling us, I don't need to do this.

I don't want to do this anymore. Yep. And we're like, but no, but we do the thing. And you nap at the time with the stuff. And that's when I nap. At the time, impermanence, impermanence, impermanence, a constant changing to let it, to not only attach to it when it is a thing, recognize it, but to be willing to let it go as quickly as it came.

Yeah, because sometimes you don't want to let it go. Right. That nap time. Right. I'm like, Gus, you sure you don't want a nap anymore? Just a tiny rest? You look super tight tight. Can we call it a tiny rest instead of a nap?

Nope. I get this thing with my kid. I have one kid who will eat the same thing every day for breakfast. Yeah. Consistent. And then I have another kid who'll go like a week or two and he's like, eh, I don't want that anymore. And you find out by having prepared it, having it on a table and be like... But I bought 30 of them.

You know what I'm saying? Because you liked them yesterday. You liked them for three months. I bought 30 at Costco. This is my kitchen. What am I going to do with all this yogurt? What do you mean? You don't like yogurt anymore.

No more yogurt. It's the truth. Okay, I just wanted everybody to touch, because I thought that was an interesting thing that she said in that moment. And then she asks, like, you, like, why you don't want to know the sex of the baby. And there's a conversation about sort of like the fear that's attached here. We've lost a baby, right? That's the sort of elephant in the room and just, like, the idea of, like,

how excited do we allow ourselves to get? because if it ultimately goes away again, right? And none of these, these aren't the words, but that's the thought underneath the words. Yeah, I mean, it's a delicate balancing act, you know, especially when it comes to pregnancy. I see it a lot in my life. I suffer from delayed joy quite a bit because of the industry that we're in. I hear you. And like, I told you my buddy's making this movie, and he's like delaying his joy at every, like, major step.

Yeah. Where it's like, I'm like, congratulations. This is huge. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait till we get to set. And then you get to set, and you're like, wait till the movie's done. Right, yeah. Then wait till it's out.

Wait till it's out. Wait to see if people like it. Wait to see if I get to make another one. Wait to see if that one's any good. And like you spend so much of your life delaying joy. Gratification. It's like, just sit in it for a second. Sure.

And let it, just let it be, which is, I'm saying it because it's what I need to hear. I hear you. Yeah. Yeah, but it's the same type of situation with Toby and Kate. I don't want to attach themselves to a night. If they know the sex, that makes it a little more real. Sure. A little more.

And then if it doesn't go the way they hope, how much more disappointed will they be? That is, man. I mean, it's the non-attachment of it all is trying to enjoy the journey without sort of like being attached to a particular outcome, right? easier said than done, especially when life is literally on the line. Yeah. You know? Yeah, we'd all be enlightened if it was easy. Yeah, tell me about it.

So then. We get a Toby, Jack Pearson. Go for her. Like, you know, gigantic surprise. Yeah. By way of him enrolling her in college. Encino Community College. So she can finish those, how many credits does she need, like seven or eight credits?

It's like two classes, which was news to me. I'm going to say, I didn't know she actually attended college. Because she didn't go to Berkeley. She didn't go to Berkeley. This, I think, was new news. Because I was like,

when did my sister go to any credits? It's like we need to get her close enough to the end of college so that she could finish college before the baby gets her. There you go. Because I don't think this was new news, I believe. I feel like you're right.

Yeah, I don't quite. remember she must have had some sort of community college situation right yeah and somebody in the writer's room said just that to dan and dan went you shut up i'm dan fogerman she went to college when we get to that young kate working at the diner thing maybe there'll be something that illuminates that but that's not till next season i believe maybe i think we'll find out we'll find out we'll find out okay we'll get there maybe they feel these are the two two seasons that were a little like fuzzy on yeah yeah yeah we're watching along with you yeah we're I don't know what happens.

It's a real mystery. Is that the end of that? Well, no, then they have the, they cut the cake for the gender reveal. And it's a boy. Blue means boy. Blue means boy. That's what they do. You look very happy.

Very satisfying. I mean, again, I mean, it was foretelling the future, right? Yeah. Another one of those things. Literally, you had a boy and a girl. Yeah. And that's how it went. Yeah.

Lord, have mercy. That's, that's, you know. I mean that's interesting also a very satisfying cake to cut into it looked like the little Eminem's that came out when they fell out I was like oh that is a SMR cake right there

yeah it was great you had a boy and a girl on the show two boys and a girl yeah mine doesn't count I'm in a completely different thing but the eerieness of that is pretty cool okay that's where Kotobie ends

we know we're having a boy right Randall and Beth dude here we go This shit. Who wants to start? I mean, this was a big. I got a whole laundry list here.

This was our audience. I remember our audience really not liking the road that this started to go down. Oh, bro. Yeah. Really not liking it. All right. So let's go down this road a little bit. We know that there's a debate coming up with Saul Brown.

Yep. We know that Beth has left the campaign. Is off the team, but she's still incredible. He's incredibly supportive, wants to be of assistance. He's like doing, what, word studies with Annie and everything. Yeah, for her spelling competition. She's like, bro, you got to focus. You got big things coming up.

Let's keep our eye on the prize, so to speak. Tess is being a bit aloof. Deja's just talking to her mom on the phone. And we're like, maybe we should let her know that it's okay to talk in the phone, but we need to be informed about it. But he's just, he's not, it doesn't seem like he's focused on what he should be focused on. Sure. Right.

And then Beth says something to him, was like, you know what, I know you can do this. You're awesome and everything. And it's like, you need to listen to me. It's like, you have the most beautiful voice in the world. Sue has this great line. He's like, hey, don't be soft, man. City taxes and statistics. She's like, let's get together.

Yeah. Just the only way to two can do it. I love the Beth pep talk because she says that you are fierce, dignified, and in top form. I was like, wow, what it like, like, it's so concise. Yeah. And so intentional and, like, considered. Yeah. It's exactly what you need to hear.

Yeah, it's like exactly what you need to hear. I'm like, yes, Jack Pearsoning this. It's real good. Yeah. It's real good. There is, we are right before the debate. Beth gives that pep talk, right? That's right where that happened.

And then the debate's happening. Randa winds up mispronouncing the moderator's name. Saul's just roasting roasting this dude in front of everybody He is getting walked over by Saul You know what I'm saying About the fact that he doesn't live in the community

It's the only thing he has And he goes back to it over and over again It's like Kendrick and Drake to a little bit To a certain extent But he's killing him But I wrote that I remember sitting In the auditorium for this scene Oh tell me

And just like Actually feeling the discomfort Yeah Like feeling the touch tension, feeling how awkward it was. And as a human, but also then as Rebecca. Yeah. Because Randall is not often in this position, right?

He's, he, I just don't feel like he's often the underdog. Right. And, like, to see him so blatantly being, like, trampled by someone and not, like, not being able to defend himself in the way that, like, he always has the answers. Yeah. Yeah. He, like, it's just, so it's a very uncomfortable position to see him sort of, like, being held down in this regard. It was uncomfortable to do.

Yeah. Like, it was. Because it was hard to fight back what he was saying, wasn't wrong. You knew, I had this acute feeling of, like, I am the outsider. And if I try to ignore that fact, then that's not going to go well because this man has been a part of the community for 15 years, et cetera, et cetera. So I can't be like, you know, I'm one of you. I kind of just have to say, like, this man hasn't been doing right by you, what has been the tactic, right?

Should we also address Rebecca and Tess? Because I think these things sort of dovetail together. Sure. You're bringing her to the debate. We're all there before you. And you're asking her about what's going on in life and how everything is, any big changes, like just being so delightfully grandmotherly without trying to.

Because I got to tell you, I think you did a good job of like, not overplaying your hand, but to the teenager who knows that she just came out to her aunt was like, Aunt Kaye told you, didn't she? And you were like, George Washington, I cannot tell her like, she did. You know what I'm saying? And if you want to talk to it, there's a delightful reference to Jim and Paul. And I, Mandy Moore, you say you're not funny, but a little bit of urine trickled out. Because you're like, my good friend's Jim and Paul, how to.

And it was, like, so sweet and so well-meaning. And I was like, would you want you? Letting her know, I know a gay couple. I know gay people. But also, who are Jim and Paul? Yeah. Who are these friends? Like, I want to know the dinner date that Miguel and Rebecca go on with Jim and Paul.

Yeah. You know? I was like, Rebecca, were they real? Or was it just a, you know, trip she was trotting out to like. I believe in Jim and Paul. They're from church. They went to Chili's. To Chili.

They got chicken crispers. I think Rebecca being an artist In the music business It's not her first rodeo You know what I'm saying Jim and Paul If you want to tell me It's not something that like

I'm unfamiliar with That's basically No of course I knew what she was hinting at But it was just funny It was Jim and Paul You can talk to me I went to college

I had experiences of my own Yeah I kissed a girl and I liked it Jim and Ball But she shuts it down She's like If I wanted to talk about it I would have told you

Yeah And it didn't even feel like Disrespectful Even though it may have been a little mouthy But it's like no This is a major thing That you know about And I wasn't ready for you to know about it

And I don't want to talk about it Yeah Right Fair enough Yeah So we'll go back to the debate Getting roasted for not being local Or do you want to finish

Because it's just like That last little bit is that, well, we go back to the debate, it's after the debate that Rebecca and Tess are handing up flyers to people that are, as they're leaving. And I think Rebecca sees an opening with, you know, telling her why she really wants her to feel comfortable expressing herself. Sure. Because she has experience with bottling up her emotions and keeping secrets and not telling anyone and how, how that wreaks its own sort of havoc, maybe quietly. And she just talks about how she, like, you know, she has aches in her, you know, her hands and her back and, like, all of this.

And she sees a direct correlation with all of the things that she kept from people, all of the emotions that she kept bottled up, how they find a way to manifest themselves in one way or another. And she has this ache in her bones now, and she doesn't want that for her granddaughter. She wants her granddaughter to be able. Maybe it doesn't have to be her. It could be her parents. It could be Aunt Kate. But she needs to find a way to have, you know, an ally to be able to voice whatever she's going through in life and feel comfortable enough to not, you know, withhold. Yes.

It was also an excellent section in the This Is Us Handbook for Living on how to, how to repair, make a repair with a young person. Yeah. Like, you're not only admitting your mistakes, but it's a mistake that Tess knows you made with her father. Yeah. With her grandfather, yeah. Oh, father, yeah. Yeah, with her grandfather and her father. Yeah, about all of this stuff.

And so it was a really interesting way to, like, make some repair around that with her and not, and not just like, you know, when we were growing up, or when I was growing up, I got left out of that stuff. Yeah. That step. Sure. we don't need to worry this is an adult business yeah you know but to include her in that is a real so true yeah yeah there's a real kind of formative moment as small as it is yeah it's a really good choice here's how you handle that yes yeah it's i mean like we were talking about this you know previous episodes whatever in terms of what are the ramifications of keeping things in right

And now Rebecca's directly sharing with her granddaughter, like, these were my ramifications, you know? Like, I lost a child. It hurt. And because I didn't find a way to, like, talk about it. Like, it actually feels like a pain in my body, in my body, that I still carry with me. You know what I'm saying?

Which is not an unconscious. Therapists will tell you that things, these autoimmune diseases, these mystery, full body pains. Yeah. There is some... The body remembers, yeah. There is some, yeah, some feeling in their community that it is bottled up trauma that is trying to be expressed.

And if you don't find a way to express it, you will just hurt. Yeah. And everything will hurt. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So it's as beautiful, share. Thank you, Amanda. Because I didn't take any notes on, like, the meat of the debate.

Because I was just sort of watching. it and sort of reliving it, remembering how good Rob Morgan was in the whole thing of just what a great antagonist he was in the moment. And there are moments, like, from an acting place where I was like, you're really pissing me off. You're like, literally, like, there's moments where I was like, you're really pissing me off. And I was like, I have to, there's things I want to do and say, and I realize I had all these

people in the audience who are listening, and they were, let me just also say, the importance of the crowd, when folks are with you, you feel it. Not with you as an actor, but with you, like, in the scene, like, giving you the appropriate feedback that you're supposed to have, like, there's nothing extra about it, it's essential. Like, and I just want to shout them out because they supported me in such a lovely way through that thing. Seeing your face, seeing Beth's face, seeing the kids' face. Like there'd be moments where I'd have to lock in to see folks and be like, all right, let's do this thing.

And because there's a big old mouthful of stuff. Yeah. And I couldn't tell you everything. But I saw this moment when I was like, I'm not taking any, quit interrupting me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quit saying it's like, it's my turn. Yeah, yeah.

And I got something to say. Yeah. Yeah. But even in that you were diplomatic. It was like you had your time, brother. It's my time now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it was, it was measured, but forceful.

Yeah. My first triumphant tier of the, of the episode was, take a chance. Like, I was like, I was like. Yes. I wrote Randall for president, question mark. It's where it feels like it's going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, this is a moment.

Yeah. Will he be? Yeah. Which is why I remember when we get into later seasons, it's like, he's old. Is he the president? Yeah. Is he? Is that the...

Did he go on to be the president? There was some rumbling about that. There were talks. There were talks about it. But it was a satisfying scene to do. It was sad to get granular and be like, listen, he's a man of service. He wants to help. He's seeing people who have conned to this other man for help time and time again.

And he hasn't done what he said he's going to do. Not delivered. And he said, I may not have the same experience. You know what I'm saying? But like, if you give me, I won't settle for having three, you know, eight bus stops removed just because they promised you three. Like, we can do better. I can do better for you. And if I can't make the calls or whatnot, I will get out there with you.

Yeah. Where he's talking about shoveling the snow and I got a little. I was like, oh, come on, Randall, I said you big dogs. And you could see Jay Wan and Beth be like, okay, we weren't going in a good place, but it looks like you may have right at the ship. Yeah, you course corrected for sure. That, like, changed the tide, I think. So you have now made clear to me another overarching theme of the entirety of this show, which is, there's a saying in the recovery community that the opposite of addiction is connection. And that is what every character in, that is how every character in this show lifts themselves out of.

whatever their problem is. Whether it's anxiety, he takes his anxiety and he uses it for connection. Same with Kevin, as far as connecting with you and connecting with family and connecting with Nikki and connecting with all of it. It is the only external solution to an internal problem. You know what I mean? A lot of us will use... like drugs or in the show it's drugs alcohol food love whatever the thing is to try and solve a problem

but the real the only real external solution to any of our problems is genuine authentic connection with other people yeah i've heard this in church when in need sow a seed there it is more that was us after this short break Everyone has a different idea of the perfect summer trip. Mine looks like being organized, having a place that is comfortable to land with plenty of activities for the kids, being able to be outside, not worrying about bugs, you know, all the things that sort of come along with summer. But I want adventure. I want campfires.

I want hiking. I want sunshine. I want swimming in a lake. All of those things I'm hoping to accomplish this summer. Yeah, this summer, you know, we're already in Southern California, but we're going even further south this summer down to the beach cities. with the kids. We're going to visit friends. We're going to celebrate birthdays. And there's all these great little Airbnb spots along the way. Come on, man. No matter what your idea of the perfect summer trip is, we can all agree your home could be doing a little something for you while you're

out enjoying yourself, hosting someone else who's looking for a place to stay. Exactly. It is the perfect time to open your home to guests while you're off doing your own thing. Hosting on Airbnb fits right into real life. No big commitment. No huge effort. Just Putting your space to good use. Summer is about making memories, and hosting can help someone else make theirs, too. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.

It's Rona Week. Now until Wednesday. Rain or shine, you can always be building yourself a better summer. So head on over to Rona and save 35% on cans of 3.78-liter Rona interior paint. Give that room you keep saying needs a fresh coat of paint, A fresh coat of paint. Build it right, build it Rona. Conditions apply, details in store, and more offers at rona.com. We sell buckets, too.

Connection is the opposite of addiction. That's interesting because, like, and that's the saying, is that how it goes? Because, like, that means it. Addiction is like withdrawal. Like, through addiction, you're able to. You are isolated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're, you're becoming self-centered.

You're becoming self-pitying, self-envolved, self-involved. Interesting, then, then when you're not in the midst of the addiction or you are, that they call that withdrawal. I'm just sort of like semantically. Oh, yeah, no, it's in my head. Yeah, it's a, there's a lot of round and round we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree 110%.

So it goes well. Randall feels good at the end of it. However. However, J-Wan comes up to him. They've crunched the numbers, the latest poll. Yeah, you're too far back. I think he's 10 points back or whatnot. It's just not going to happen.

Basically, Jay-Wan's like, this was great, but like... Yeah. Yeah. We got to throw in the towel, probably. That's how most people hear it. Yeah. Yeah.

Most rational people are like, okay. Okay, well, look, you gave it the good old college try, admirable, it's not going to happen. Yes, so we go home, Randall and Beth are, you know, talking it through or whatnot. And then Deja comes up because what she was doing was texting with her mom and what actually says, I want to go visit my mom. She's in Delaware or what have you. And we're like, okay, we'll figure it out, right? Yeah. Understood.

You know, we thought that, you know, the day was all about that. And then we heard that. And then we were about to chill out. And then Tess comes in. And this, guys. I know. This is one of my favorite scenes. And I remember because Aris hadn't had to do a lot of heavy lifting up until this point in the show or whatnot.

I don't even remember Ken coming up to me. He's like, oh, she's got a lot in this one. I was like, you think she's going to be okay? I said, I think she's going to be fine. Like, I really do think she's got a big personality. Yeah. So she's, and she's as sweet as can be, but, like, I saw how she was sort of, like, building up to it and, like, you know, she would ask questions about things or whatnot.

I said, you know, I think if you, you know your lines, first and foremost, and you just try to live that truth as authentically as possible, the nerves that come along with it, the fear of, you know, not being accepted, et cetera. I say, I think it's going to be great. Right there, yeah. Man, this girl over-delivered. Yeah. Yeah.

She overdelivered in such a gorgeous way. Well, I think she kind of, like, you know, uses a little bit of what, perhaps what grandma told her. Mm-hmm. And she says that she feels uncomfortable around them. Yes, ma'am. And she's walking around with a stomach ache. That's right. And she just doesn't want to keep secrets anymore.

Yeah. She doesn't want a boyfriend. And then she says, it's because I think I might like girls, not boys. But I don't know. Maybe I don't. and she's in tears and I wrote she was so good so good there's a cut I think I've mentioned this before I don't know like I don't know if it was on the podcast or to you guys directly but a woman saw me in airport right and she comes up to me directly and she says when my daughter came out

to me I was not as gracious or graceful as you and Beth were with Tess but I'm going to do better Wow And that's it And you think it's just a show Right? Like it's a little entertaining show But like it It mattered

Yeah Like it made like a real impact Yeah In that way And I was I think I've heard Many a horror story Of coming out

That you know In which like Friends of mine from high school Who got kicked out of the house And all this sort of stuff That I was so happy To be Another example of how one

could be in the midst of a child sharing themselves with you fully. Right. Right. And Beth said, Sue had some of the best bars. She's like, you know, look at your dad. Look at me. Do you see anything other than people that love you more than anybody could love you possibly in this whole world? And she's like, no. And she's like, okay, cool. She's like, all right, I'm going to go now. Right. I don't want to talk about anymore. I want to talk about anymore. But it's like, that was it. That's all, that was it. All you need to say. All she needed to hear.

We said, if you do, we're right here. Yeah. We're right here. Oh. This was a highlight. This was, it was. But big props to you, too, the way you played it, too. Like, obviously, it was loving and accepting.

Yeah. But there was so much going on in your faces. Yeah. Because you had all these internal questions. Yeah. But you didn't betray any of that? And you were like, okay. And seeing your child in pain, so there was pain in you, but you're like, what's that pain about?

And it was just, it was played so well by everybody. very well. I love the scene afterwards because that's when the wine comes out. Yeah. I thought I wasn't going to drink wine tonight. You know what I'm saying? We didn't see okay. I was like, I didn't see that one coming. We're like, no. And you think, and you think, well, this is us. That was it, right? They can't be anything more to this. Couldn't possibly. What else could have happened this evening? Couldn't possibly. I will say, this is funny. I don't know if you guys have had this hypothetical question with your spouses. But like Ryan and I will ask this question. Like, what if the fellas come out?

as something other than cisgender, heteronormative, whatnot. And we're all kind of like, I think we're good. Yeah. We're totally cool. Ryan and I posted a picture one time of Amari when he was a kid, and he was wearing, like, his mom's shoes. Yeah. Right.

And it was really interesting because every once in a while, every year we support LGBTQ youth, and there's a purple shirt that you wear. Yeah, yeah. Spirit Day, right? Spirit Day. Yeah. When I make that post, there's an overwhelming amount of, of support and appreciation.

Then there's an overwhelming amount of sort of critique as like, I thought you were a man of God. I thought you knew, but why would you allow your child to be emasculated like that, et cetera? I just like, and I don't ever know, like, I never respond because I think it just becomes a more heated thing, and it ultimately goes away. But just like in this moment, I was like, why?

Why is just loving someone seems so radical? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Why is just like accepting someone for who they tell you that they are who is not calming another human being or whatnot? Why is that like, that doesn't feel as aggressive? Because it challenges somebody who is not confident in who they are. It challenges their fear.

Okay. Because someone who looks at that, who thinks that they understand the highest and lowest of what it means to be a human being, is now challenged, and people don't like to be challenged. Yeah, but it's interesting, because I agree with it. Especially when they think they know.

I totally agree with it, but it's like, why is that, oh, I don't want to, it's just going to, to get cut ultimately because this is really Brown sort of musing esoterically about the idea that someone says that there's something different than what you thought they were sort of sends you into a tailspin. Right? How difficult it is, is it for them to live their truth, knowing that like in this particular community, they may be one out of however many, that they may not have like the support of everybody who is similar to them, but they still want to say like this is, like, in order for me to be the fullest version of myself, I have to tell you

who I am. Yeah. And then hopefully, joy comes from that. Yeah. Right? Like, I think for me, I actually thought about this scene doing American fiction and thinking about like, there is no possibility for authentic happiness if I cannot live inside of my truth.

Right. You know what I mean? And for someone who lived in the closet for 20 years trying to pretend for the benefit of the comfort of everyone else. Right. That they were a certain way. To his own detriment, right? Okay.

I'm just happy that she got a chance to do that. Anyway. This is an important conversation. Absolutely. And we're living in strange times where, like, we have to talk about it. We have to. We can't just deny someone else's existence or deny the conversation in general because it may or may not be like, you know, edgy or I don't know, blasphemous. It's not.

It's not. It's not. The idea that masculinity and femininity are what define us is so, such a small idea to me. So small. Right. It's thinking on a level that is so far from anything that could be related to God or anything of a higher power. And I get so little, I get the smallest amount of my understanding of who I am as a person.

from being masculine or a man or a man or manly or and i actually get very little definition of who i am as a human being from the fact that i love rachel that doesn't define me sure it is a confusing conflict yeah to to to to have to engage in yeah especially for young define ourselves and yeah it makes way more sense to be like yeah what what does this mean yeah there's there's there's there's there's these boxes i think that we all try to put people into because categorization is comfortable right and familiar and familiar exactly and it makes us feel safe it makes it makes us feel a part of a community you're you're here you're there okay i understand how to to navigate that whole thing right right but like the boxes in and of themselves

are sort of arbitrary. So arbitrary. You know what I mean? And to what you're saying, Chris, like, you know, I am black, I am male, I'm an actor, I'm a father, I'm a son, I'm a brother, I'm a friend, I'm all these other things. But like, for me, like, you could, I could say I'm a human being, right? And then for me, I'll say, I am a spiritual being having a human experience. Right.

Right. And like, that sort of supersedes most things in my life when it comes down to like the filter that's most important, right? Yeah. I'm trying to have a spiritual. spiritual connection. When I say namaste, which I'm frequently do, and it seems silly, but it's like, I'm trying to have the part of me that is divine, connect to the part of you that is divine. And that is the thing that will last forever. Right? Like that's really, at the end

of the day, the thing that is most important to me. But we come up with the smaller things because we're tribal. And it's like, oh, you're on my team or you're on a different team. And if you're not on that team, then, you know. I'm not supposed to like you. I'm not supposed to get along with you. Right. I'm not supposed to understand you. Yeah. And our, our, uh, our intelligence, our ability to assess a situation, assess our surrounding, uh, to feel correct, to feel right, is, uh, makes us feel safe, which helps us survive. Right. And we have, we are not meant as, as, as the, as the young, uh, very young, uh, uh, uh, animals that we are, are not meant to live in groups bigger than a hundred.

Huh, I see. You know what I mean? And the vast exposure that we have to the world and to all the different kinds of people and is can be dis-regulating to all brains, and it makes people feel unsafe, and it makes people feel scared. You got to find your group. Which is why people try to find groups. They find churches or they find whatever the group is.

Yeah, whatever the community is for sure. But literally on a sociological level, you know, they've, the book Sapiens talks about this, where it's like, you used to never meet more than 100 people in your life. Not very long ago. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. And now on this box, you can encounter billions. Every single person on the planet. Yeah.

And it could be a lot for a young. That's interesting. And I don't mean, I don't mean young by age. I mean young as a species. As a species on the planet, trying to figure out what feels safe. And it's, it's, you can act from two places, right? Fear or love. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And fear is a very powerful. Very. Yeah. Very, very powerful thing. And it can control. And it's easier to access that, I'm sure, than it is to access the love. Because better safe than sorry.

Yeah. Right. What's that noise? Sure. Better to be afraid of it. Yeah. And stay alive. Yeah.

Then move towards it with curiosity and end up dead. Wow, guys, we just went off. That was a good one. Yeah. All right. So I'm going to bring it back. Bring it back. Well, because this episode ends.

Like you said, you sort of thought, this is us hit you with the double whammy of Deja wants to connect with her mom again. Right. Tess is, you know, sort of trying to understand. who she is and how she moves through the world. Yeah. They pour themselves some wine. Yeah.

And I think Beth is kind of of the belief of like, wow, well, these two things have just presented themselves to us, right? We got the information from J-1. This campaign is unwinnable. Right. You have two of your three daughters who need you now more than ever. Yeah. Need us as parents.

Need us as a family, as a team to sort of together figure out how we continue moving forward. And you told me that if at any point, I wanted you to drop out of this thing, you would. Because Randall says... And Randall says, psych! He says, it's not over till it's over. And Beth is like, bro, I think, didn't you hear what I just heard? And literally, as an audience member, I was like, I don't think... I don't think that was unambiguous, Randall was...

Yeah. It was the end. Yeah. Your campaign manager says this is... You cannot overcome this. You cannot overcome it. It's too little time, et cetera. And Randall's like, well, you know what?

And the writers of this as us say, you've got things to deal with. You know, it's like difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week. He's like, let's just, let me see it through to the end. And she reminds him about that thing. And he says to her, like, you know, there's people counting on me or whatnot, and I just kind of do it through. And she said, damn, Randall, maybe you can't win this campaign. But you sure did learn how to talk like a politician. I know, I wrote that down too.

And this is the beginning of that arc with Randall and Beth. Or like, we're in it now. Is it in this exchange where she says, I got to go and you say you do what you got to do? Is that next week? Yeah, okay. Next week. At just that moment, I was like, geez. Right.

But so the next thing you see in Montageland. I know. And I was shocked. I forgot about this too. I was like, we had an argument, but like, all right, let me go take my ass to bed. No, no, sir, we're bringing down the pillow and the sheets. Yeah. We're putting it on the couch.

What you did see is Beth walk by, Randall attempt to, like, stop her. And she is like, no, no, no, no, no. That says, if you were just listening to that, that's Beth taking her arm, pulling it away from random, like, no, bra, not, not tonight. And then, gang, then we see old Randall. and Tess. Your favorite version. Yeah. Looking just, I don't know

if he's gone through dialysis or whatever's happening. Yeah, his faces. Oh, Randall ain't right. He ain't right. Something is swollen. Something's been gone bad. Anyway, you let your mom know

you're on the way, right? She says, you let your mom know you're on the way. And because it also establishes, I believe, for the first time we're going to go see Randall's mom. Right, but it's a bit of a head fake. It's a bit of a head fake, right? Because all this, they're going to see her. They're going to see her.

And he says to her, you let your mom know we're coming. Yeah. And it's like, why would she have to let his mom know? Are they not together? Is that the woman they're going? I was like, is that the woman they're going to see? So then we see old Beth for the first time. Yeah.

And she's like at a dance. She's running a dance empire. A dance empire. She's like a king on a balcony, like overseeing her kingdom. Yes. And she says, and the right. We're going to see Randall's mother. Mystery solved.

And someone brings her the pin the tail on the donkey and you're like, okay, what is this mean? But I also felt I felt like the, we're going to see Randall's mother, like, we're not going to see my mother-in-law. Like, it's almost like, am I inside of this group or am I on the outside of this group, right? Because as soon as people saw that, everybody was like, are they still together? No. No. Now, this was the most vociferous focus. have been, I think to this point,

is like, when they thought that this relationship might not endure into the future, they're like, don't play with me. We will stop watching this. It will end right now. They would have stopped. If you take the Black Pearson's on life or not. I would have stopped watching.

Child, please. Like, I would see sisters on the street and they'd be like, don't you mess this? Yeah, yeah. It's on you. You know what's interesting? I think maybe Sue and I both felt that people came at both of us very strongly.

Yeah. Like, because it wasn't just one or the other. It matters. She had people coming to her being like, hey, listen, this man is running for office. He's trying to do a positive thing for this community. Get on board. Let him do his thing, right?

And so, and for me, they're like, listen, you've made a promise. Like, why are you trying to, like, it was strong. Yeah. I mean, the right, they left you both on even ground. They did. So that's, that's everything, right? This is a great episode.

And when we get to next week, who? Cha, please. I know. It's a good. We got a fan segment, our favorite segment. Coming up, we'll be right back after this. Well, you know what time it is.

It is time for our family. segment. Today we are going to be calling one of our listeners. Yeah, but first, but first, yes. We're going to read the sweet email he sent in about how the show impacted his life. This email is from Christopher, and I think we all want to hear what he has to say. So I'm going to start this off. This is an interesting one. Okay, let's do it. So, hello, big three. First of all, thank you. That's us. Thank you. That's us. Appreciate that, Christopher. So I'm late to the game on this podcast, and I listen to the first two episodes while doing yard work yesterday, hearing that there was a way to connect with you made me so excited because I have all, I've wanted to share

the impact, the show, and characters have had on my life, specifically Sterling K. Brown. That's you. That's me. This Is Us was released just as I was courting the beautiful woman, Lashonda, that I am blissfully married to today. We had both gone through divorces and had emotions that were all over the place. I was entering a season of co-parenting four terrific kids who were hurting and was determined to be the absolute best father imaginable for them. I had not been a bad father, but knew there was more I could aspire to. Lashonda and I met on Match.com and were located in different cities. One of our immediate connections was love for TV, and we began watching this series together. I was immediately drawn to Randall's character, and not just because

I'm black. I live in Charleston, had three, now four daughters, had a father that was absent during my life who died when I was 21, and I am a huge Steelers fan. I thought, this show is obviously written for me. Throughout the seven seasons, I formed the attributes of an ideal father from Randall, Jack, and William. My wife and I also elevated Randall and Beth as, quote-unquote, marriage goals, and often paused the program while watching to discuss their scenes and interactions with each other. We got married in 2019 and talk about them as a couple all the time. I know for a fact that they made us a better couple and we wish we could be friends with them. Dude, this is, okay, so the next part says Sterling K. Brown.

That's you. That's me. I would like to thank you so much for making me a better man. After the show was completed and I was going through Randall withdrawal, I began to dig in on a who you are and your journey. We discovered the show Black Love and immediately wanted to be best friends with you and Michelle, laugh out loud.

Most recently, you are on my favorite podcast, The Pivot. Hearing you talk about your parents, upbringing, journey and education, marriage, and career was just so uplifting and inspiring. As a black man, it means a great deal to have a positive black male role models to look up to. And you are on my Mount Rushmore of men, I patterned myself after now.

You and Ron's performance in my favorite episode, Memphis, helped me to forgive and let go of my own father who was absent most of my life before he died. Changed my life. Just changed my life. Thank you all so much for making this show. It's such a wonderful part of my story. Love y'all.

Oh, wow. Come on, Christopher. Can we call him? Let's, let's... Oh, look. Look, there they are. There's Christopher and Lashonda and their little daughter. Oh, we have to call.

We have... Wow. Look at that baby. Look at those. Oh, my gosh. Those are the four kids. Five kids. It's beautiful.

Five kids. Yes. Yeah, no, no, no, of course. Let's call. Let's give this brother call. Don't say his number out loud because we don't want everybody calling. But we'll just give them a ring. Hello.

Christopher. This is Sterling and Mandy and Chris. How you doing, bro? Wow. Hello. How are y'all doing? How are you? My wife is laughing at the look on my face.

Dude, we just got finished reading your email. And I'm sure everybody else will come, but like so much. much of it, like, hit me square in the chest in the most beautiful way, bro. Like, thank you, man. Thank you for allowing the show to be a part of your life. Thank you for the interest. And if I have been an inspiration in any shape, form of fashion, I just like to say to God be the glory.

That's really and truly. No, I really appreciate it. And I was happy to write it and say most people go their whole lives without getting to contact some of the heroes. So I was thankful to be able to do it because, guys are indeed heroes and it made me a better person. So I really appreciate everything you all have done for me. Oh, man. Thank you. I feel the same way about the show. The show made me a better person, too, just getting to be a part of it. So I can relate. All of us in some form or fashion.

You're absolutely right. How's Lashonda and the family? Yes. Lashonda is great. She's so happy that you all ran over because she's off a work call and she is now right beside me. Oh, hi, Lashonda. So we said, what's up? Oh, I love that. You are where in Charleston? I shot Army wives in Charleston for six years. So where are you guys out? Are you North Charleston?

Are you, like, in the historic area? Where are you at? We are in Johns Island, just on the other side of Charleston. Oh, you are a Gullough, man. I've gone to church in John's Island. And then it's funny because they'll interpret things for us non-Johns Island people. And then they start talking to each other. What do you mean?

It's like another language. It's like, Guller culture has been. preserved and like these islands off of the off of what is gulliculture can you guys explain it to him like well well i may not be the best person because i am also a transplant i'm actually oddly enough i'm from tennessee okay spent time in memphis from nashville yes so i moved here in oh seven so yeah is lichanda from there no both you guys are both transplants he's from albany georgia it is it is like um there There's a certain patois that is regional to that area in particular.

That it's like, when they start talking to each other, you're like, what did you say? I couldn't quite hear. They come from like the islands and the islands. Exactly. You know, and I moved here, I was like, I didn't know they had a special language here. I don't understand. They're just saying. What a beautiful part of the country.

I love it there. Listen, man, like this, like you guys really watch the show and would pause in the middle to just sort of like break stuff down? Like, talk to me about what it was like and how it functioned in your relationship. Well, we would. And another part of it is, I told you we met on Match, but she was actually still in Atlanta. So we would actually watch it together while on the phone. Because we were apart for the first two years of our relationship. And, I mean, we would pause. We did the same thing when we read books together. And we would just talk about what transpired, how it relates to, like, our divorces, how it relates.

to what we go through with our parents, what I was going through with my kids. And we just talked through it and kind of helped each other walk through things that was in our past that we wanted to talk through. So it's always been, I guess, a point of us in our marriage that we wanted to really be, what's the word, we really wanted to be focused on

having a good relationship. Yeah, intentional. Yeah. Intentional. That's the word, intentional. That's the word. You guys, you're talking about Beth and Randall be a marriage goal. sounds like goals.

Marriage goals, absolutely. Christopher and Lashonda goals. Oh my goodness, man. Listen, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm very rarely am I at a loss for words. But like, I am touched in a way that I don't know. I'm touched. You guys have touched my soul. It is my sort of desire in life to bring life.

light, love, and light, whether it is through the screen or just like how I try to carry myself in life. And if that light was able to reach you all in any shape, form of fashion, I am so very thankful. And for you to reflect it back to me, means the world. Can I talk to you just a little bit about the father effects that had on me? Yes, sir. So as I mentioned, growing up without a father, it's definitely an overrated experience.

He lived probably about 15 minutes from me, and I probably saw him three times in my life before he passed away when I was 21 or so. And after getting divorced, I just saw it as a second chance to be. I wasn't a bad father, but I knew there was so much more in me that I could be. And in watching Randall and Jack and Ron, it just really had me just, I continue to say to say to myself, I need to step my game up because you guys were so much more than just characters and after meeting you i guess getting to know you more through this podcast i understand why it's because you're all a wonderful people and it comes out in your art so i just grabbed on to so many

little things that you guys were doing as fathers fathers trying you know a father trying to co-parent in a situation that was difficult and you know walking through with grace understanding that i was going to fail with stuff and it wouldn't be the end of the world if i did but you just help me i'm so much of a better father and husband because of you guys and watching those characters. Just so much better. And I cannot thank you guys enough for that. You're making Sterling

Brown cry over here. Wow, man. That's a tall order. Congrats. Not my attention, but it's just I mean, I can't say if it was an hour, I wouldn't have enough to say about what you guys have done. That's very kind. Very kind. That means a lot to

all of us. Oh, Christopher, you better stop, boy. You gotta stop, boy. Listen, we're going to let you go. I've said thank you, and I'll say thank you a thousand times, man. Whatever it is that I have fed you, you have fed it back into me and may the cycle continue in perpetuity. I've received the love, and I want to give it back to you.

Because to be able to say that out loud with all sincerity and mean it, is a privilege to hear. It is a privilege to hear. And you didn't have to, but you took time to. And I just want to thank you and your beautiful wife and your beautiful family. And may we all continue to grow and prosper together. Amen. Amen.

Amen. So much, Thirlane, Mandy, and Chris. What a wonderful name, by the way. Yes, sir. All the best to you guys and your beautiful family, man. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, nice talking, y'all.

Still can't believe it. Ladies are. Have a good day. Have a good one. Bye, guys. Wow. You guys. I mean, is that a fan segment or is that a fan segment?

You guys. And I didn't have to like pay him or cue it up like, holy cow, man. It's just, it never fails to surprise how the impact that these characters and these stories have had. You're right. It's like, it still is, it's never lost on us. It's so, it's so heartening to hear it. Always. And to be reminded of like, wow, we think we're just doing this job and we're grateful for it and we love it and we're appreciative in the moment.

But like to realize, you know, three years removed from when it went off the air, like it's still moving people and they still feel compelled to reach out and let us know. Like, that's a lot of just now finding the podcast. Yeah. That's right. So keep spreading the word. keep connecting with your friends over the pod we would love to connect with you you can write to us

at that was us pod at gmail.com you can send us a message on the emotional support hotline that's right the phone number is 412 501-3028 we love connecting with you thank you so much for your support

and remember if you want to support us you can support our sponsors the reason this show is free to you is because we have sponsors on the show. So support them. They support us. And then we'll support you. And then you can call and support us.

It's just a cyclical thing. It's a support system. It's a support system. Thank you guys so much for listening. And we'll see you next time on another episode. Take care, everybody. Bye. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios

and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da-da-da-da-dum Da-da-dum That was us