That Was Us - The Big Gig | "Moonshadow" (S1E18) with special guest Sam Trammell

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

The season one finale of “This Is Us” has us worried about the future of Jack and Rebecca… In today’s episode of “That Was Us,” we catch up with Sam Trammell, aka Rebecca’s old boyfriend and bandmate, Ben, whose surprise kiss kicks off a punch to the face, the end of the band, and the biggest fight between Jack and Rebecca yet. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing Season 1, Episode 18, Moon Shadom. The season one finale. A twist of fate stops a young Jack from going down the dark path and introduces him to his future wife. Randall, Kate, and Kevin make big decisions about. about their futures. Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision.

They slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes. Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLOR-Stellus lenses at your child's next visit. Welcome to the show.

The end of season one of This Is Us and the end of season one. Of that was us. We're getting pretty close anyways. We really are. Guys, can you believe we're already at the end of season one? It went fast. It went very fast. I see how people can binge because once you kind of get in, you're like, oh.

What comes next? It's good. I want to see what happens next. Maybe now's a good time to, while we close out the season of our podcast. to ask our fans to binge and help us grow the show. So if everybody who is listening can tell one friend, listen, I've got a whole season of podcasts. Discussing your favorite show.

We can go back, we can watch the show, and listen to the podcast in tandem. It helps us grow the show, helps us continue to do the show. You can patronize our sponsors, but spreading the word, subscribing, reviews, just telling everyone you know, ensures that we can go through all six seasons. Let's do it. We got 106. That's the plan. Right? That's the goal. Man, you're going to have a baby, should be laid up, still with a microphone in her face, talking about you. Absolutely. Nothing's

going to hold me back. Stop me from from hanging with you guys. Okay, so my 118 sort of anecdote. Again, I was in Vancouver working on the predator. And I had said, seen like a rough cut of it before and it's almost like you just really want people to watch Predator like that too, listen, where's where you are you find it anywhere you stream films

but I called Fogelman I had this phone call and I said, hey man you sure that's how you want to end season one in the show? Yeah. And he was like, what do you mean? I was like I'm not comfortable

I don't like it, Daniel. I was very uncomfortable, not because it wasn't excellent, because it was, but it was how excellent it was at making me feel uncomfortable. And so much of the show kind of leaves you feeling warm and fuzzy and sort of like, oh, like you said, like a blueprint for living life or whatnot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt like this one's striking purposely, intentionally, a very different chord. And he said very smartly, he's like,

we got to give them something that leaves them on the hook so they can see what happens. Yeah. You know what I mean? Sure. And I was like, okay. Because I remember, we didn't do a table read for this, but even in reading the episode,

because I refer to it, the Mandy and Milo argument as the scene. Because they shot it and, like, they tried to do it in a oneer. Yeah. And then there was like one. One little edit. Was it two or one, ultimately?

I can't remember, but you guys rehearsed it. As one. Like a play. Yes. You know what I'm saying? And Ken was so... I remember just watching him walk you guys through that and everything. He's like, because there's a lot of overlapping dialogue.

You guys have to say it, but you have to listen at the same time and make sure you hear him with the other person. So real quick, because we'll get to it. How long did you guys work that scene? Because that scene was a beast. It was a beast. We didn't, I mean, we did this like sort of faux rehearsal where we kind of like choreographed it for lack of a better. for camera positions and stuff, since we were aiming to shoot it in one shot, helping our steady cam operators, like, know where we were going and that we were all sort of on the same

page. So I'd say we had, like, one rehearsal. It was like maybe we were done with work early on a day and kind of like went to the Pearson house and walked through it as a unit to kind of figure out our little steps and stuff. Um, but. But I remember not wanting, Milo and I not wanting to like rehearse it too much. It was just sort of like let it live and do its thing on the day. But I too remember Dan coming up to us at some event and telling Milo that Milo and myself that this is how we wanted to end the season and that the episode was primarily, it was just really going to be Jack and Rebecca and kind of their, you know, how they met.

And obviously they're standing present day. I just was like, wow, this sounds so daunting. Yeah. And two, like, I had the utmost faith and trust in Dan's intentions and, you know, where he wanted to take the show ultimately. But, like, I was like, oh, wow. It felt uncomfortable as well. It was uncomfortable.

So let's start with that uncomfortability. Yeah, because it all starts with a drunk jack behind the wheel going to see. But he makes it to the bar. he makes it so the audience is going okay yeah so he's in the car ride is a little while and I think yeah he doesn't he makes it he doesn't perish on the way to the club yeah all right so that wasn't it yeah and then it's sort of okay then they sort of flash back to a clean shaven first time we've seen him clean shaven young jack young jack yeah baby milo helping out mrs peabody not taking too much money just trying to be a good dude to be of service she gave him five bucks for fixing

his car, etc. And then we hear for the first time from Mrs. Peabody, how'd you come back from Vietnam so nice? Uh-huh. Which I think that's the first time that we know. Yeah, it's a big piece of information. But Jack was a vet. And he says, I was just a mechanic. So maybe like not being caught up in the action, like had something to do with it essentially. Again, more information like, oh, okay, he was a mechanic in Vietnam. Right, right. Good to know. Let me file that away. Let's clock that. Okay. Then we see young Rebecca Malone hanging out with her homies. Yeah.

And this reminded me because they're talking about, like, one's pregnant. Yep. The other one is, I don't know if she's married or whatnot, but like they're all sort of like ensconced in... Domestic life. Domestic life. And you are the artist. Yes. You're the singer.

And it made me ask this question. Have you guys ever tried to share your dream of what you wanted to do with people who were just like, huh? For real? Like, or did you keep it close to yourself? I asked that question because, like, in my family, my mom was fully supportive from jump. I think my mom wanted to be a doctor, but she wasn't allowed to go to medical school because her dad said that they couldn't afford it, but sent his son to pharmacy school because it's something that, you know, if a boy's going to do it, then it makes sense

or whatnot. So my mom was like, no, if my son says he wants to do this, I'm going to find a way for him to do it. and my family would be like, what are you talking about? What is this? You're wasting, da, da, da, da. So I'm curious, like, how did you guard your dream? How did you?

I think the biggest gift that my parents ever gave me was never even even putting me in a position where I realized I had to guard anything. Wow. Really? That's a huge gift. That's a gift. It made me a bold, stupid, you know, driven young person to think that that acting was a was an option right right but there was

never anybody in my life who who flinched or who even yeah yeah no it was I don't it's one of those gifts that I look back now and I'm like oh that's amazing that's the gift I feel similarly yeah I think I credit like any bit of longevity to to my parents not just being great parents but like there was never a conscious like are you sure you want to do that like we have to drive you around town to auditions there it was never a question like oh that's what you want to do and the boys want to play football or they want to do whatever their their projects were and this is what I wanted to do my mom and dad are like okay we'll figure it out yeah I think there was resistance at school or maybe there was a perception of that from my

that I never... Resistance or jealousy? Jealous? Maybe, bro... Jealousy. There was resistance on my part to tell people too much about what was happening

outside of school because I never wanted to be viewed differently. Right. And I feel like I was so worried that there would be that, like, you think you can do that? You think you're... Right.

Hard for young kids to relate to record contracts. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Even just like getting a place. or doing like a local commercial or something. I was like, I don't want to bring that dynamic into the school environment.

I get that, okay. So, but you guys were still pretty blessed. That's pretty, incredibly so. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think my friends were very supportive of me. I do remember senior year, my friends were worried, they were like, what are you doing with your life?

And I was like, I'm gonna go to grad school. And they're like, are you sure? I was like, yeah, I'm gonna apply to these three. I'm, me getting to one. I only wound up applying to one grad school that takes like it has 800 applications and the 16 people get in but I was like I'll get in it'll be fine and so it was sort of

naivetee on my part as well but it worked out it worked out okay how much of anything is naivete and just like yeah that's what I'm gonna do yeah like it makes you realize that like a huge part of for me for me personally a huge part of failure is doubt and it usually failure for me

is not an external force on, it's usually internal for me. And so to not have to be faced with that at 1819, you know, to be living in an apartment with four roommates, waking up every morning, mailing out my headshot, thinking that that's without an agent. This is the game. Like that's how it's going to work.

So I send out these headshots and then I literally, guys, I used to walk into agencies with my headshot. Like, just going to leave this right here for you. And if there's anybody I could talk to you, speak with. Just to the public at large, it's not the way to be. I sent, I sent, I sent a headshot to every single agent in Los Angeles and was graced with zero response except for one no thank you letter, which was nice actually. God blessed them for me, taking time for the letter. Yeah.

who I'm now a client of. But yeah, just that naivetee of like, all right, the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, that it never even occurred to me that this wasn't going to work out is what helped it work out. Yeah, and so that, that's interesting

because I think that's exactly the space that Rebecca is in. Right now, she's like, look, I know you guys think this word, but I'm actually getting pretty close to some things. Yeah. It's going pretty well. Like, I made this demo, I'm sending it out. Yeah. Like I'm excited for what's going to come. Right. Right. And it's a beautifully framed episode in that what we have is an impending meeting of Jack and Rebecca, or we think. Yes, because Mrs. Peabody wants to set him up. Yes. He agrees. And your friends want to set you up. Correct. Or Rebecca up. Yeah. And, but it's, it's, what's the word I'm looking for? It is mirrored by an impending end. Yes. and they are mirrored against each other.

It's the beginning and the end, quote unquote, all in one episode. So Rebecca gets home, young Rebecca gets home. She does get some sort of form of rejection in a letter from a record company, and it makes her go, you know what, maybe my friends are right. Yeah.

Maybe I'm not, like, there's no focus on my love life. I should just heed their advice, get set up, go on this blind date. And so as an audience, we're led to believe, like, this is the Jack and Rebecca meet. Exactly. Okay. So wait, before we get to that part, we go back to the present, or we go back to adults with kids, Jack and Rebecca. And Jack is ordering a drink at Rebecca's show. Beck's nervous backstage. She tells Sam, she's like, I should be at home watching ER. Yeah. Which is a really good, because ER was awesome. It was. And Jack's not just ordering a drink. He orders a bud with a bourbon back.

With a bourbon, not a water bag. Which is not somebody ordered. bring a drink. That is somebody getting drunk. And he's already drunk. Believe me, that is a person on a path. This is a path. When we get Milo on this show or need to ask him, because Milo does not really drink that much. No.

But Milo's drunk. Yeah, really good, drunk acting. Really good. Really good. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to see that. So maybe he knows something about that. So she's talking about that.

And they have a moment. Like, he holds her hands, like Rebecca's going to be fine. Now, here's my question to you as an actor versus. character. When you go forehead to forehead with a dude, do you feel like you might be sending a signal that making itself available? Hold on. Sterling, are you saying she asked for it? Because I don't like the way this is going. I'm not saying anything. I'm saying like as a human being, if you come forehead to forehead with a man with your own name. With an ex-lover. With an ex-lover. Oh, ex-lover, my ass. Uh, look. Because. Was

Is it the most appropriate? Probably not. I just, in that moment, I was like, oh, I am so nervous. This is like, he's my touchstone. Like, we're in this together. We're on this tour. There's so many people out there. Like, I'm with you. I disagree with Sterling. No, no, Sterling. I'm not disagreeing with me. I was just trying to justify it. Because if we went to forehead to forehead, we would know exactly what it was. Correct. Yes. We would know exactly what it was. Because you're not ex-lobbers. This is me and Mandy more touching base. I absolutely feel like she

was surprised by the way that he turned that around. Yes. Because I think her intention was very clear of like, this is my buddy, we're in this together. Of course. He's my rock in this and I'm terrified at like the prospect of a room

full of people out there and why am I doing this to myself and why did I think I belong to here? And a million questions are sort of like, you know, surfacing. We're going to have Sam on later in the episode. We'll ask you. And I totally agree with you. I was wondering if it was one of those moments as an actor and a character if there

was any schism. For sure. There was some schism, but I had to sort of buy into the fact that like there was absolutely there was zero intention. Sure. Of course. No matter what is happening with Jack at the end of the day, these are two people who are cosmically linked and connected

and I think without a doubt Rebecca knows that they're going to find their way through this moment so it's like it is the furthest thing from her mind when he does make that move and is inappropriate and tries to kiss her yeah yeah yeah puts him in check immediately but it's just like I think

the biggest letdown he was right of course he was right Jack was right, but also like, damn it, I can't have anything for myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, this guy had to ruin this moment because, like, I can't be on the road with him now. Yeah.

There's no possible way to go through with the show. And, yeah, it just was, I think, so absolutely defeating and deflating for her. She bounces out of there. You know, I can't believe you did this. She goes to call Jack. Yeah, she goes to call Jack, walks right by Jack, who is just, blah, blah, blah, blah. Who at this point in the editing has been through, I'm pretty sure, is six drinks.

Yeah, which is a ton of drinks. Yes, yeah. So then we go back and we hit up Young Jack, and his dad belittling him. And I want to, if you can find my man who plays Jack's dad, this guy... It should be on the document here, hold on. was so damn good. And he's one of those actors that we've seen all of our lives and a million things.

But he did such a good job. Peter Honorati. That's right. Of sort of contextualizing what our patriarch came out of, what he came from to sort of show to like, man, to be where he is is a feat in and of itself. That's right. Because he received very little

in terms of being buoyed by his father. father. His mom was almost relegated to silence. Sure. And a house that was maybe not physically abusive, even though there were times, I believe in which, like he was, but all emotionally, incredibly damaging. It wasn't a place to flourish. Sure. You know what I'm saying? And no model of love and monogamy and what he ended up building with his own family and wife. Yeah. I mean, even in the episode, and we'll get to, he talks about, like, I tried to be someone that he was not. Right. Right. And look where it got me. But we'll get to that in the second. This whole run-up just showing young Jack as a driven man who is trying to break away.

Yeah. He's trying to break away on his own, trying to make something for himself. And he is with his buddy, who is, who, Daryl, who is played by Jeremy Luke. He's great. Yeah, he's great. Incredible. And the two of them are trying to start a mechanics business. Exactly. He's saving cash. And they're doing whatever they can, five bucks at a time. to break out on their own. Exactly, exactly. And he says, I got to get out of that house, right?

And so he said, like, what about your buddy's poker game? Was there his cousin or something like that? And he's like, Daryl's like, hey, man, you don't want to do that? Some bad guys there, he's like, hey, you know what? Who cares? Let's just give it a shot, it's no big deal. We go to Jack and Ben, right? Oh, yeah.

And he's looking for his wife. Burke? Burke. Yeah. Running around backstage. Looking for my wife. And then, like, he's looking for my wife. He's like, he goes to a place.

I'm just looking for my wife as he goes down the stairs, steady cam, following him down, you know, he turns to the side so steady cam doesn't get too far behind, walks into the room, nobody's there. Then he finds Ben or whatnot. He's like, where's my wife? And Ben's like, hey, man, just take it easy. You're drunk, you know, settle down. This is a big deal for us. Don't blame her for my mistake. And I'm like, I'm telling you, I'll tell Ben, I'm going to talk to Sam.

Why you keep saying this shit to Jack? Do you know who you're talking to? Yeah. You giving up way too much as you. He clearly has no idea. You don't know who you talking to. Yeah. Jack was in NAM, son.

Which we all know now. And I don't think he was just a mechanic. And that look on his face. Dude. Like, what'd you say? And he just launches it. Boom. Yeah.

Boom. Boom. Pulls them out. Okay. All right. Whatever. Beck comes in. Mm-hmm.

Catches him It's like, bro, why you keep fucking up my shit? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And then she's like, I'm gonna take him home and she's like, are you sure it? And it's like, it's over, Ben.

Yeah, it's all over. It's all over. It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking again because I just like, this woman. I was like these two dumb men. Yeah.

Yes. That just got in the way. Taylor's oldest time. Every way possible of completely eradicated. this dream. It's just, ugh. We'll be right back with more. That was us. I could talk about my experience with Airbnb, because I've been using it since the very beginning. Same. I've used it across three or four different countries. Really? Because when I go

somewhere, I want to be comfortable. Yes. I want to have my own space, and I want my space to be in the middle of the action. I don't want it to be where all of the hotels are. located. Sure. You don't want to be removed from the action. No, I want to be in the city. I want to be amongst the people. Yes. Feel local. I want to feel like a local. Yeah. And the best way to do that is to stay in someone's home. I love that. I love that. While you're away from home and traveling, your home could be an Airbnb. What better way to earn a little extra money or offset some of your other travel expenses? This year, I'm going away for work. I might be gone for six to eight months at a time. And so not only do I need to find the perfect place to stay where I am going. But while I'm gone, I could list my home

or our brand new guest house on Airbnb for whoever may be looking for that perfect place to stay. Well said, sir. Listen, when you're on the go, a lot. Or are road tripping with your estranged family members exploring the complicated secrets of your past, Airbnb is a smart choice to make to ensure those trips, no matter how simple or complicated they may be, are as smooth as possible. And your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Here's a question to you real quick, because I know they were like, especially in season one,

there's a lot of feelings about Beck and like Rebecca and how, what kind of wife slash mother she was or whatnot. Like what was the heat? What was happening around this episode? How were they feeling the public? Like a large. I think just in general there was not a lot of love lost. Really?

Oh, people. Yeah, they were not into Rebecca. And maybe it was like a collection. It was just sort of the overall idea of her present day and everything, all the baggage with Randall and Miguel, like, it was a lot. Because they love Jack that much? Yes. And Jack deserves.

Yes. You're like, I remember reading some stuff. Oh, yeah, people were like, how could this woman choose her career over her family? She has three kids at home. She's a husband who loves her. Like, what gives her the right to? And I was like, what? I think I'm going to take a break from social media for a while.

It's like, no wonder Hillary didn't get elected. Jeez, guys. Like, this was the end of 2016, beginning of 2017. I was like, you got it. I know what's happening in the Zite guys. But, yeah, there was a lot of animosity towards Rebecca and the choices from women specifically that really caught me off guard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it did start to shift, I think.

Sure. Not in this episode, because, again, going into season two. Going into season two, and I think, like, over time, people didn't have as much blame for her. I'll revisit that again when we get to the scene, okay? Okay, got it got it. So Beck leaves you, drives home, Jack home in silence, right? Yep. Young Rebecca gets the rejection letter.

She decides to go on the blind date. Young Jack getting ready for his blind date goes to the poker game. Now, I guys tell you, I love watching poker on camera. Yeah. Isn't it great? It is always just tense and just sort of exciting and you don't know what's going to happen. It's literally where we get the word stakes. It literally is.

It's literally where we get the word high stakes. Totally, right? So you've seen them play. Jack gets dealt three queens, an ace, and a three, right? He gets rid of two cards. I would probably kept the ace high. Just by myself, I would have asked for one card. But he gets two cards, and he winds up, they don't show.

Because we see the guy who's running the game. He's like, I'll get in here. He's got a full house. It's like 10s over threes, tens over five, something like that. So they proceed to, like, he anties him all the way in until he, like, pays up all of his money. My man reveals his full house. We know Jack has three queens. It turns out that he got a fourth and takes the whole thing.

He's like, you know what, guys? maybe this game is too rich for my... Now, listen, I was like... Listen, I've played in a fair share of poker games. Some friendly, some not so friendly. Sure. What was Jack thinking? He must be like, I guess one hand's good for me.

Even if... You know what you do when you win that? You sit there and you fold for the next hour. Sure. There you go. You get your cars, no matter what they are. You fold and you get... Here's the other part.

You fold for the next hour or whatever. Then when you get out, you don't stand next to the door and celebrate with your homie. You run the fuck as far away as you. You run. Get in your car and leave. You run. I thought the same thing. I was like, don't celebrate right outside the door.

No, because what I love is, though, there's a head fake because his buddy tries to celebrate and he goes, no, no, come on, come on. And then they go six feet over and celebrate six. It's the logistics of getting the shot. Not having to get another location. Come on, come over here. No. We did.

Cartoonish. They feel that same way. So funny. So funny. And then they proceed to get the shit beat out of him. And it's just, you see this guy get a break. You feel so happy for him. And then it just all goes away.

The wind knocked out of his sales. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Can we jump ahead in this storyline to them meeting? Yes. Okay. Because he decides I'm getting that money back and he goes to raise, and they're going to, and he and his buddy decide they're going to rob the guy who

robbed them, which already seems like a really bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And Jack actually has a really good plan, and it probably would have worked. It probably would have worked. But he gets interrupted while he's trying to rob his own money back. Because he sees his future wife who left her blind date with Ethan. And Mandy Moore's face when she's on this date with Ethan, who shows up a little bit late. Yeah. And he's like an investment banker or something like that. Yeah. He's lovely enough. He's so boring. And the boredom on Mandy's face is like, oh, this is not my life. I have to leave.

This is not the pathway. And she's like, you're, I think you described him as, like, lovely. Yeah. Which, like, from a dude, he's like, you're such a lovely. And you're like, oh, okay. Did I say something wrong? No, you're lovely. She gets up to go to her open mic night, and she's singing moon shadow at the very same spot that Jack is about to rob.

And he turns and he sees. And she sees. and the connection happens, right? That's the beginning of these, of Jack and Rebecca. Do that, go to the present past.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at one point in time, in the car, Jack says like, Beck, she's like, no, don't talk, not until we get home. They get home, and the scene happens. They're walking to the kitchen first.

It's quiet. I think you get him peas, for his hand and get him some water so he can start sober up or whatnot and then you start it you start it jack starts it i can't remember but we're just sitting in silence and then they start to talk and all the frustrations start to boil up right and there's a couple of bars that i got to remember because there's words that are said and this is something that we've talked about as married people right We try to actively avoid having to say, like, I didn't mean that. Right.

Try not to say stuff that you don't mean because you should be held accountable for every word that comes out of your mouth. And they say some stuff that it's like, even the next day they say like, hey, I know we were in the heat of the moment. But we meant those things. But we meant it. And you can't take that stuff back. Ooh, do, do, do I'm curious. What? I have no life.

Rebecca says many times over and over. over again. And then when she's trying to say what she's trying to do, he says, you're a 40-year-old woman singing covers in pubs. That is not a career, Rebecca. That is ridiculous. Uncomfortable. Yeah. The word ridiculous gets thrown back by both of you. Yeah. And it is such a demeaning word. Yes. Yes, it is. Such a patronizing word. Yeah. Yeah. She says, he goes, like, you know, why are we doing this? We love each other. And she goes, what do you love about me right now, Jack?

The gauntlet. And he says, nothing. Crickets. Crickets. And she says, so the next time you tell me that you love me, make sure you're not doing it out of habit, walks away. And that's how it ended. That's how it ended.

But like, I'm telling you, like, there's the first cut is when you walk to the living room, I believe, because it's all in the kitchen at first. Then we cut, we have one cut to the living room And then you guys move to the family room across And that's where things really get shot at out, et cetera And this car, I realize how invested I am in mom and dad Like that's, I feel like when I'm watching the show I'm watching like mom and dad

I was like, please guys stop arguing, right? Please, it is making me very sad and very uncomfortable So the next day, you know, Rebecca comes down We see the Jack wound up sleeping on the couch downstairs And she says, like, you know what, look, we said some things. And even though it was in the heated moment, we meant it and we can't take it back. And that's the beginning of like, maybe you should go stay with Miguel. And we need to take a breath right now.

So I'm imagining again, too. I'm going back to like the Twitterverse and like how people are reacting to Rebecca. I'm sure that probably wasn't like the shining moment for her. Yeah. No. No. People were not satisfied with that ending. And like you said, it's like this sort of discord ending this season on that note.

Yeah. The last frame of the episode is this shot of the sun coming through the window on your face. Yeah. And you're sitting there and you're thinking, it's so beautiful. And it just made me realize, like, you know, obviously this show is an ensemble and there's a lot of stories going on. Yeah. But, like, this is a story about this woman's life. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. It concretizes, like, you are the through line that carries and connects this whole... And this story is not uncommon, as specific as this woman's life is. Sure. This story is not uncommon. Yeah. A person with big dreams who is in a societal system that encourages family and relationship and growth and denying that that path.

for, especially in the, in the, what, the 80s and 90s, of a woman who had a dream like that. And it's just, it was such a, at the end of this episode, I was like, oh, this is, and I had said this and known this, but I was like, of course, this is Rebecca's story. This is all Rebecca's story. There's a few, in that last scene, we have a quick montage of the big three in what they're doing in their lives, because you're like, are we going to mess the kids up? And they're like, no, he says they're going to be fine. Yeah. Right? We see Kate makes a decision that she wants to be a singer.

Yeah. Right? Like mom. We see Kevin in bed who gets a phone call from Ron Howard. From Ron Howard to be the lead in his next film. Okay, Ron. Yeah. He's like, okay, Randall, whatever.

He's like, no, this is really me. I came to see your play. I thought you were wonderful, right? And we know it's really Ron Howard because Ron Howard is in our show all of the sudden. Yeah. It's really Ron Howard. Cammeode. And then we see Randall look at.

through old pictures and whatnot, coming to his wife and saying, I think I want to adopt. Yeah. Like, that's how he really wants to honor William. That's how he really wants to honor William. And the last things that we hear Jack say, they're talking about how, like, you know, I was going to, I was supposed to have another date the night that we met. Right. And Rebecca says, I wonder who she was. And he says, I never have.

That's right. Like that. And he says, you're not just my great love story, Rebecca. you were my big break. He leaves out the door, the sunlight behind Rebecca, holding her moon necklace. And that's how we end season one.

It's pretty good. It's terrified to me. I was terrified. I was like, I want mom and dad to be okay. I think that's why I called Dan. You know what I'm saying? Like, are they going to be okay? Are they going to be okay?

Yeah. Right? And like we've hinted at before, It's like, you know, I guess one couple's can't make it. Yeah. Who's it going to be? And also, like, I think it's so important to think about, like, the weight of what was said the night before. Yeah. Those are things that have never been uttered to anyone, let alone to each other.

I mean, this is a couple, I think, who are open. But also, I think Jack, as he says, actually later in season two, he's a man of a different general. who is not able to express himself in the way that, like, we all freely understand, like, everyone should be able to express themselves nowadays. And so I think they're, like, that complicates things further. There was so much that had never been said to one another that you can't take back that just, like, it throws everything into question. Yeah. You know? And I think I just, I just, I, I, I.

I know that we were really, we wanted to make sure that it landed in such a way that you were like, are these people going to be okay? Or is this the beginning of the end of this relationship? Yeah, yeah. Because it was important for people not to just be like, well, they'll patch things up and like in... You feel that.

You feel that, I feel that too. Like, everybody feels as if like, oh, you guys are relationship goals and they'll say that about Randall and Beth too, but it's like, relationships take one. work. You know what I'm saying? And it's not that everything is always perfect. It is how you rebound from the imperfect. Right. For the imperfect. Which I don't think people are referencing when they talk about relationship goals. No. Not at all. They're looking at the

highlights and they think, oh, that looks nice. Yeah. But they, but yeah, the full, the full picture of it is much, has many more hills and valleys. Amen. Amen. Okay. This was it, but we have a guest coming up. Yeah. We're going to talk to Sam Trammell. So stick around. We'd be back after these messages. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. TD Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide

tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit TD.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Gang, everybody has a type for hair, that is. And for our hair, we love partnering with Wei. Their shampoos and conditioners are made to deliver what's just right for your hair type. What kind of type of hair you got, saw? Chest hair. And chest hair should not be ignored. It needs to be conditioned too. Yes, absolutely. I have fine hair. Yes, you do. I do. You so fine. No, no, I have fine hair. I wish it were thick. But nope. But I do love my way products. Yeah.

I love the way they smell. I love, I've talked about it on this podcast before, the body care, specifically the scrub. Oh, in the St. Bart scent. Yes. That's my jam. My wife got real excited when she saw the way products come to the crib. Like, she sniffs me a little bit longer. She sniffs me anyway. She's a little bit longer. She sniffs a little bit longer. Get way products. They'll sniff you a little bit longer. Listen, the point is that Way has products for any kind of hair, whether it's fine, medium, or thick, Way has got you covered. Do you want soft, shiny hair that doesn't weigh you down? What I wouldn't give. Way's conditioning hair mask for fine to medium and thick hair types instantly restores hydration.

It fights frizz and strengthens strands. So if you're craving volume or you're in need of moisture, Way has you covered too, no matter what your hair care needs. are you will not be disappointed by Way's quality and incredible sense. And don't forget to check out Way's detox shampoo. Let it cleanse away your buildup and give you that refreshed and clean feeling. Whether your strands are fine, medium, or thick, Way has shampoos and conditioners that fits your type. And if you're not sure what your hair type is, Way's website is there to help you figure it out

and find the best ways to treat your hair. Wash your way to healthy hair. See what I did. And wash your way. Wash your way to healthy hair and get a hair routine that's made just for you by way. Go to T-H-E-O-U-A-I-I-com and use promo code T-W-U for 15% off any product. That's T-H-E-O-U-A-I-D-com code T-W-U. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our very special guest, Sam Trammle.

Hey! Hey! How are you? We're doing well, sir. How about yourself? I'm good. You look good. I'm good.

Sunny day here in LA and, you know. Fresh face, you have the blonde highlights are kicking in that hair. Delightful. Oh, is it looking blonde? That's great. If it's looking blonde, I'm good with that. The powers of Zoom. We were just recapping the final episode of the season

and talking all about your interactions with Rebecca and Jack, obviously through the entire first season, but especially in this last episode. The kiss, man. What made you pull it off? Jump right in. What made you go to it? Did you feel as if you had an opening?

Did you feel? You make it sound like Sam was the one who decided, you know what? I was like, let me rewrite this. Like, as if that was an opening. Improversed. It was not an, it was written. Yeah, it was the director, the director of the writer's like, and Sam, listen, at any time, if you feel like his, Mandy, just go for it. If you just feel like it, there's an opening, go for it.

Yeah, it was, I mean, it was kind of awkward because we're, I'm kind of moving in and then we're kind of laughing and our hands are together. And I feel like I'm late with the move. Like, I'm a little late with it. Then they cut to me my face and then finally I go in, but I feel like, Mandy, I feel like you might have, Rebecca might have pulled back in real life. I'd be like, what's this guy with the forehead? We were just talking about the forehead. We were just talking about the forehead thing. And Sterling's like, was that an appropriate move?

Did you? And I was like, no, I really, I feel like as, as actor and as human, I had to sort of find a way to really lean into the fact that this, like, Rebecca looked at Ben as her rock, right? Like, she was, this is something that I think your character, he was a touring musician, He did this all the time. This was like new territory for her again. She was terrified.

She had all of this self-doubt. And just that idea of like, oh, my friend. I had to sort of like find my way into it that way. But of course, I think that was Rebecca's intention. But maybe it left the door open for Ben to sort of feel like, uh, I see my opening. I feel like Ben. Yeah. I mean, I feel like Ben really was kind of naive.

to like what marriage means what real relationships are. You know, like he kind of was just like, oh, I thought just, you know, maybe we could hook up.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it felt very, you know, very, like he didn't really have any sense of,

you know, I mean, you have that great speech in an earlier episode to him where I say, well, if he really, if Jack really loved you,

he would let you do this. And he's like, if he really loved me, do you have any idea? And then you go into this, beautiful long thing about what marriage is and all the different things he does for you. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like Ben is just not, like, I don't know, he seems like he doesn't know what's going on. He's never been in a real relationship. We've mentioned it before with

a lot of the, the guest star actors that came on this show, that we feel that the world of our show has, has connected so well with the audience because our world is populated. with kind of television legends, for lack of a better word. And I'm including you in that. Yes, familiarity. You coming on to the show, it connects the audience to the story. Like, I feel like I know this guy. Yeah.

I do know him. I do know this guy. And I'm wondering how you came to the show, like what that process was like. Yeah. I mean, there was, you know, I mean, I'm sure you all remember, but sometimes you lose perspective. but you guys were already like a hot like it was already so much energy and buzz about your show even by the midway point and then I you know they you know Ken Olin offered or whoever you know

said hey there's this arc you know and and I watched some of the show and I was like oh my god this is like such high quality such incredible dialogue yeah and so it was kind of a no brainer I was like for sure. I was wondering if it was an offer. It seemed like an offer. I was like, I was like, of course, this is the guy. Sam's the guy for sure. But then we had, I think it was one of those things where they say, can you sing? And it was like, well, I was like, hmm, sure, you know, but I couldn't, I couldn't really sing. And then the actor's answer. I mean, you must remember, we went in, like, I went in with Mandy to record in a studio, this Sam Cook song, which I don't know if it made it into the show. Did it? I don't think it made it. The Sam Cook show.

I think it did, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring it on. Bring it on home to me. Yeah, exactly. It's not in the finale. It's in 16. It's in 16.

Exactly. Yeah. 15 or 16. Is it in 16? 15. 15. Okay, so, okay, thank God. I made it.

Oh, got it. Because that was very intimidating. Well, I had to get. Come on, please. Because you were already there. No, but Mandy, you were already in there, and you had sung the whole thing. And then I had to sing it like in a different key, but exactly hit the, you know, and like, I don't.

like, I don't do that. That's like not, you think. I mean, it's not my thing. Like, I play a little music, but I can't sing. So, but that was exciting. For anyone who's listening, when you're an actor and someone says, can you sing? Whether you can sing or not, the answer is, sure. And then you go figure it out. I say I can carry a tune. You can more than carry a tune. But I mean, they can ask you anything. Real quick, do you juggle? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it is, you say sure. and then in the time between you answering and when you have to do it

you go figure it out. You got to figure it out. Chris, I went because then Ken called me and said, you know, I think we're going to go into the studio

and do a little Sam Cook song. And I was like, what? And, you know, in my head. And then I went and saw this this vocal coach, this music teacher

for like five sessions in the valley. Like, I was like, I'm going into the studio. I got to sing. And so it was, It was, yeah, I was like caught on my back foot. But it was fun.

It was fun to, you know, it was fun to go and, you know, figure it out. Wait, I'm just reading this thing. Did you have to, like, did you practice to have, like, the song in a certain scale? And then when you came in and heard Mandy singing it, she was singing it higher. Yes. That's what it was. Yes. Oh, boy.

It's my fault. She's got, she can do that. Oh, boy. Mandy's like, I like this key. I know. Oh, no. She's like, we're just going to do with this G-sharp minor, you know. And we're like, of course, of course, G-sharp minor.

What other G-sharp air for that? I have a question. It was fun. I have a question. So, like, all your scenes are with, with Mandy, with Milo. Let's talk to me a little bit. Did you guys know each other, Mandy, Sam, before you guys just met on the show? We did.

Had a good time working with each other. So I had you and Milo know each other? Did you know Milo? No, I know. I only knew Chris. We did a little movie, you know, a few years before. That's right. What did you guys do?

We played a couple of very different white supremacists. For real? Yeah. That's like your, is that your bread and butter? Listen, I told you, I'm six foot four. I've got a shaved head. Very intimidating. You need a white supremacist.

You get Chris Sullivan. We were in a movie called, Tell me the name, Sam. What's the name of? Imperium. starring Daniel Radcliffe and he played he played a FBI agent who was infiltrating a white supremacist white nationalist organization no no well yeah Daniel Radcliffe yeah yeah yes yes trying to shake that pot around I played the

very nice white supremacist look at the guy next door yeah yeah well that and you play I see that that makes that I like if you if I wanted to deal with the white supremacist I'll deal with Sam come on in come on it's all it's all good the water's We had a white power barbecue at Sam's house. Did you? Yeah. In the film. In the film.

Don't clip that. Do not clip that. Understood. In Sam's house. What was it? Like the confrontational scenes with Milo because I always say that I don't want to cross Milo Ventimilia. And like what I mean is Jack Pearson, but also Milo Ventimilia. Like was it intense?

Like did you feel the heat coming or was like, no, I wasn't. I was just doing a scene. It was cool. Oh, no. I felt the heat. I felt the heat. It's, oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I can't remember the day, but let's just say, just it's a good story. Milo, I don't know, but I seriously don't know if he even spoke to me that day. Like, he was like in his, you know, he was really, uh, really focused and, and he also had to be drunk. Like, he had some things going on. Yeah. So he was really, and I was like, that's cool because we don't need to, you know, he, he just needs to hit me, you know. Um, I just need to grab for him and he hits me. Poor unsuspecting, Ben, we were laughing about it earlier.

It's like, do you know who you're saying these things too? It's like, yeah, read the room. Like, you keep volunteering information that he didn't have. Like, time and again, I was like, well, you should ask a question. Ask him what you know. Hey, hey, Jack, what are you doing? You see him upset, Jack. He just leads to, don't.

Naive. Don't punish her for my mistakes. It's like, oh, Ben. Truly. Was there any, was there any, we as a cast obviously dealt with any kind of, I don't know you would call it, interpersonal ramifications on social media between the characters. Was there any of that since you were technically the thing coming between America's favorite married couple?

Was there any of that on social media? You know, there wasn't only because I really wasn't on social media. I believe it or not. Smart. I wasn't even on, I wasn't on Instagram. yeah. Good, good, good. But I was on Twitter.

That's where it really goes down. But, you know, the people complaining about me, I don't know if they were doing Twitter, but believe me, I was, I was mortified just walking at the, you know, walking around town during that time. It's like, for real. Like, you guys were such a great couple. And it's like, who is this? Who is this interlover?

Yeah. So I felt the heat from town, just in general. It's so funny. I think anybody who comes in between. between Jack and Rebecca. I think Miguel, like for six years, kind of had to deal with that whole thing or what have you. Even when you started dating, like later on,

you started dating this one guy or trying to date him. And like Kev was the one who was like, who's this dude that you're trying to like start life over again with? Like, it's tough anytime somebody comes in between America's favorite couple. So yeah. Yeah, I think my agents might, when I got, you know, when the offer came, they were, I think they may have said, you know, this could turn into something, you know?

And the second I got on set and, you know, saw the relationship, I was like, no, this is nice. This is, this is, this is, you're out as soon as possible. Like, you're getting punched for sure. There's no season two. I'm getting punched, you know, best case scenario. Did you watch at all beyond your time?

And this is not even like sort of fishing for anything. Because like sometimes when you were done with the job and you're done, you're like, okay, that was cool. Did you keep up with the show at all in knowing terms of like where things were going? Did you hear things from time to time? Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, I, you know, I watched a few.

You know, I didn't watch the whole series, but, but, and I was also on in the last episode. But I, but, yeah, oh yeah, I would tune in. Once in a while, you'd ask around, does she miss me? Yeah, for sure. My name is my name? I don't need, I can't watch it. Does she miss me? Can I come one more time just to have somebody punch me in the dead gum nose?

See who else can. There you go. Dude, thank you. much you're making time to hang out with us and reminisce. Is there anything that you'd like to share with our audience about what you're up to these days where we can find you, see you, support you? Oh, yeah. I have a Civil War miniseries that's going to be coming out.

Fantastic. Fairly soon. It'll be streaming, you know, on a spot near you. Yeah, it's really interesting. It's Roland Joppy directed it and we have a bunch of great actors in it. Fantastic. I play Jefferson Davis. But it's interesting thing.

It's three women spies for the North. It's a true story who, southern women who spied for the North. So it's going to be really good. It's like nine, nine episodes. What's the name of the show? Oh, the Grey House. The Grey House. Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy.

Yeah. So another white supremacist. Oh, benign white supremacy. Jeez, the two of you guys. The only two, Sterling. The only two I've done. And where can people find the show? Where is it streaming?

We're not totally. I don't know that quite yet. Oh, I got it got it. Great. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But just it'll be, it'll be very good. One of those, you know, yeah. Very cool.

Yeah. The gray house. Yeah, great to see you guys. Good to see you too. Awesome. Thanks for chatting for you too, man. And the hair really does play as blonde. You look good.

Keep it. I love it. I love you. I love you back, brother. Take care of yourself, Sam. Thanks, Sam. Good to see you, Sam. Take care.

Nice to see you guys. Welcome back. We are to one of our favorite segments of the show, the fan segment, and we sure do love them. And you know what else we love? Love. My spouse? Our spouses. Yeah, at our spouses.

Love, love. At the end of this episode, Jack tells Rebecca what he loves about her. He paused initially, but now he comes back after a night of sleep, And he says, he loves the mother that she is, that she's still the most beautiful woman in any room, the way she laughs with her entire face. And shout out to Mandy Moore, you do laugh with her entire face, how she dances funny and not sexy, but in a sexy way, which is also Mandy Moore. I don't know about that. It's just funny. And that she's still the same woman who all those years ago ran out of a blind date because she simply had to sing.

Yeah. So for today's fan segment, we asked you to tell us what you love most about your spouse so we can help make their day and remind them just how wonderful they are and just how much you love them. Let's do this, man. We love love. We love it. We love it. We love it. Really going to make the day of one special spouse. We are. So we're going to start it off. We wanted to highlight this really beautiful letter from Ashley who wrote in to tell us all about her incredible husband, Joey. I believe we have a picture of them. We got a picture that we're going to put up here. There they are. Look at that little baby.

Oh my gosh. Oh, man, they're doing a thing. I mean. He's got that pilot stash. He's got that sexy pilot stash. So Ashley says, my husband Joey is a Navy pilot. And my favorite thing about him is no matter how crazy our life is, he embraces the adventure and is the calm to my anxious. He made it home from his most recent deployment.

most recent deployment one month before the birth of our first child born in March. Although I had to do most of our pregnancy alone, quote unquote, he tried to be there the whole time. He would attempt to schedule his flights so that he could face time into every OB appointment, even if it was 2 a.m. wherever he was in the world. He read what to expect when you're expecting before he left, so he was prepared to talk about some of the harder pregnancy things are things he thought that I would be anxious about and so much more. He is, the best husband and dad, and I am so thankful to be his wife on this adventure. He is the best rock solid defender to my Randall, stuck in my head. Oh my goodness. Ashley. That is so

Ashley. That's so incredibly beautiful and romantic and to be able to acknowledge that, to see that in your partner. Yo, Joey. And Joey is doing a good job and like how awesome it is to be able to unabashedly just sing your spouse's praises. Yes. I love that. Ashley and Joey, that's so beautiful. I'm so inspired by how you guys do life together. We also wanted to highlight a couple of the other submissions that we received. So we got Vince.

Anna wants you to know she thinks you're the most caring and have the kindest soul. Michael, Lisa shared that you make her feel safe and that you saved her life just by loving her. Emily, Joe told us he loves your determination and that you give your all every time. Come on, no. He said you were an incredible mother and wife and soulmate. Then we have Max. Aila says her favorite thing about you is not only your openness to change, but willingness to do it.

Come on. Brett, your wife, are we saying Taya, Taya, Taya, Taya, one of the T-A-A. Taya. Taya. If you are married to a wife. woman with that spelling of a name? Yes. She's talking about you, Brad.

There you go. If your name is Brett, she loves that you encourage her to find yourself amidst her feeling lost in motherhood. Wow. Eric, Becky, loves your passion for making food you know she'll enjoy. There you go. That's the way to anybody's heart. And Matt, Leanne tells us you've made her laugh every single day you've been together.

That is also the way to someone's words. That's pretty outstanding, gang. Oh, my gosh. all married we all have spouses come on the hot seat rachel thank you for for well since i didn't say i got i wasn't say anything because i couldn't my script wouldn't come up if anybody was wondering why like chris is just sitting over there he doesn't love love at all i mean um rachel i love i love that uh you make me feel safe enough to explore um um the darker sides of myself, and that you celebrate me at every chance.

You lift me up all the time, and you were an incredible mother to our children. Hell yes, she is. Rachel, shout out to Rachel right there. Yeah, shout out to Rachel. We love you. Let me go with Ryan Michelle Bathay, who I've known since my freshman year of college. We've been married for 18 wonderful years, gone through highs, lows, everything in between. we still laugh really, really, really hard.

Like my wife and I crack each other up. She challenges me to see the world in a different way, right? Like her perspective is always something that I don't anticipate, and oftentimes really helps to round out so that I don't get caught up in my own myopia and sort of like enjoy the perspective of another human being that opens my eyes to other possibilities. The mother that she is is exceptional.

And I gotta say, she's got two boys that sometimes are kind of overwhelming for her, but she gets in. We do tickle fights. She rides the vibe and it's all like all bear cubs up in the bed together. And it's a joy. You are the love of my life. Thank you for being my partner. You guys, you make it really hard.

You got this man anymore. Please do not worry about it. None of them listen to this podcast. They don't. That's not actually Taylor listens to every episode, which... My life didn't even though I was doing a podcast. I mean, that says everything for you. I don't know how I lucked into finding this human in this lifetime.

I am so exceedingly lucky. For any compliment anybody ever gives me of like, you're a kind person. I'm like, oh, you don't know my husband. Like, he is by far the better half of the couple in every discernible way. I just have so much admiration and respect for the man he is, the friend he is, the husband, the son. Like, he, he, no one is more, like, determined to be the very best at, like, without being a perfectionist. He, he always puts everyone else ahead of him. He is the best dad.

I'm just like, yeah, I think my lucky stars every day that somehow I was able to, like, find him and convince him to be with me. and he's my favorite. He's just my favorite person to be with all the time. And I tell him that, like, just every day. Like, I'm so glad we get to be on this adventure together and just, like, get to hang out. You know? Like, he's the greatest. We love our spouses.

We love love. Taylor, Rachel, Ryan, thank you for allowing us to hang out with each other and do this thing. While you handle everything that needs to be handled in the meantime and between times, we love you. We thank God for you. And thank you for everybody who wrote in to our email account. That was us pod at gmail.com. Feel free to write us anytime, literally anytime. The internet is open 24-7.

24-7. And you can write us an email whenever you want. This is the end of the season, gang. So if you don't do the email, email's not your thing. You don't believe in computers. I completely understand. You can call us 412501028. Leave a voice message.

Let us know what's going on with your life, how the show has touched you and how you have touched us. It's full circle. If you don't believe in computers still at this point, we should work on that. Probably we should. Because I'm not sure how you're listening or watching us. If you're listening to this podcast and you don't believe in computers.

It's a little computer. You are wrong. But this may be the end of season one, but we are back with season two. We're just rolling right in. Going right into the next one. That's right. Stick with this, gang.

We'll see you on the next episode of, of That Was Us. Later. That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grinn Productions and Sarah Warehound. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da-da-da-dum. That was us.