That Was Us - The Girl Who Danced Before She Walked | "Our Little Island Girl" (313) with special guest Susan Kelechi Watson

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

This week on the podcast, Mandy, Sterling, and Chris welcome back a very exciting guest host…Susan Kelechi Watson, AKA Beth! Susan joins the hosts for a rewatch discussion about Season 3, Episode 13: Our Little Island Girl. Susan talks about what it was like working with Phylicia Rashad (Beth’s Mom) and Carl Lumbly (Beth’s Dad), and her memories on set filming this episode! The group discusses the striking resemblance between Susan and Rachel Hilson (teen Beth), noting how they both beautifully portrayed Beth’s character. They also get into Beth’s storyline on the show, and where her path is about to take her as she embarks on the journey of teaching dance. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Try Zip Recruiter for free at https://www.ziprecruiter.com/TWU. ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. - Every summer has a story—hosting on Airbnb could be part of someone else's. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at https://www.airbnb.com/host. - To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to https://www.nakedwines.com/TWU and use code TWU for both the code AND PASSWORD. ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:15:28 Fan Segment 01:22:13 Outro Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz, Rob Holysz & Jeph Porter Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards #thisisus #thatwasus #susankelechiwatson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season three, episode 13, our little island girl. Beth's trip home to care for her mother stirs up memories of the girl she used to be and the dreams she once left behind. As she reconnects with her past, Beth begins to rediscover a path she thought she'd lost and considers a new child. chapter ahead. Ladies and gentlemen, how's it going today? It's going good. Let's not beat around the bush here. Yeah, let's not. Give the people what they want. Let's give them what they want.

You guys know, you know Chris, you know SKB. You also know our special guest for today's episode, Miss Susan Coletchi Watson. Yeah. Look at you. Oh, sight for sore eyes. True. Hey, guys. You look gorgeous.

Gorgeous. Everyone, log on to YouTube. Yeah, you got to see this. You want to see how to set up a Zoom call? Yeah, exactly. Susan Coletchi Watson is here to show you how to do it. This is not a little island girl. This is a grown-ass woman right here is that.

How you doing, sis? Doing great. How are you doing? We're doing great. Good to see you all, kind of. It's so good to see you, too. It's different. It is different.

We're not as front-center. profiles but you know oh yeah okay so that's that so you can see us over there we go so we're looking at her camera now we got to look back at you on the screaming jigger okay got this episode sue like before we get into just like the granular of it there's it had been a long time coming to get sort of beth's backstory can you just tell us a little bit about how excited you were to get to this episode i know i have a few anecdotes and remembering conversations between us but just just from your perspective, what did it feel like to be able to get into this one? I remember wondering what it was going to be like.

That I remember being like, what? You know, because up until this time, I didn't know, I can't say I didn't know. I had made up a lot of Beth's backstory. So up until this time, I wasn't sure like what Dan was thinking, what the writers were thinking. but I remember that this was like season one I was in the writer's room one day and they would have the open door policy

and we could just like kick it and walk in there and whatever and I remember texting K Olegum after one of those sessions and I just hit her like yo just let y'all know like I used to dance You know what I'm saying?

Because I know that they like to know things about us. Yeah. And it literally was a one-line, one-sentence text. So seasons went by, you know, this was like the third season, our little island girl. And to see that make its way into the script was like, oh, wow, dope. but then they made it ballet and I was like I should have been more specific it was exotic dancing

when there was no hole I got nervous so moral of the story be specific back to you back to you back to you guys in the studio that's all I have for that anecdote what, wait, what type of dance did you used to? Listen, everything else.

Everything else. Like literally, everything else. Like, I stopped ballet so early. Yeah. Because they made me feel so bad about myself. The ballet school I went to. Yeah. About the shape of my body.

Right. That we didn't enjoy it. And I felt like they kind of rode me in a way that wasn't, typical of what they were doing with the other girls in the class. And also, there was just something innate me about myself as a dancer that wasn't as fond of form, the form of that. And so I really took to like tap. I was like a fish in water, a tap.

I took tap for like a couple of months and they put me in a competition with people who have been doing it for like seven and eight years. And I was tapping with people. on another level because it's just like my body picked up that rhythm if you afro anything I was there for it

but like the ballet of it all I just that wasn't a form that I felt like you know really I took to in a way so in reading the script and knowing that it was going to be ballet I actually went to them

and I was like y'all sure is ballet you know and they were like it's fine we'll get somebody to like teach you you know to come in and all that so that was one thing And then I was, honestly, I was surprised when I first read it because so much of it had taken place in the past. Right.

So I got to kind of learn about her growing up and seeing like the family and all of that. And then the present was sort of her kind of metabolizing or coming to grips with how she wanted to reconcile things she hadn't reconciled from the past. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a lot, you know, taking it in, there was just, it wasn't sort of like, oh, my gosh, you know, the excitement of like, oh, it's a best episode. It was more like really trying to suss out, like, how to step into this in a way that felt, like, I could do it, you know, justice, you know what I'm saying, in terms of what they were writing and what they were looking for. Let me ask you, then, let's get into the casting of it because your mama in the show. She good. She good.

He's all right. You know what I'm saying? She's solid. She's got a future. Which were you more excited about dancing or your mama? I was excited about my mama. And here's the thing about that. You know, people know the stories of me and Felicia now probably, you know, backwards and forwards.

But the truth is, you know, I thought that they must have read. about Felicia and my history and thought this would be a great idea. Yeah. When I went to them, they had no idea. They did not know I knew her. Right. Can you regale people who might not know that story, how, what your history is with Felicia? So, Felicia is of course of Howard alumni as I am. Hey, too. And she taught a master class when I was at Howard. And I was able to take one of those classes.

And that's the first time that I had met her. And it was incredible, like what she was able to help me to achieve in this one class. And we all kind of like lombed on and stayed in touch with her. And she has been instrumental in so much of our coming up in the business and in terms of us being sort of trained, you know, not sort of, but being trained as actor. She's been such an advocate and a force for so many of us coming out of Howard. And at one point in time, I had asked her to be my mentor because I was like, you know, was that okay if I came to you with, you know, things that I have questions about or just want to talk?

Like I've been to our house and sat down and we, you know, we had a real relationship. She knows my mama. She loves my mama. Like, you know, we've worked together. There was so much. We just had such a history. And so for them to not have known that just was, to me, another indication of how in touch

and thoughtful and smart and just instincts, you know, their instincts was on point. That whole writer's room and casting all of it was just, you know, the instinct was like unparalleled because putting that together without no just blew my mind. They also, and they also know that you're Jamaican and whatnot. And I know you didn't get a chance to have any scenes with Mr. Lumbly,

but like you, I remember you saying like that that they actually took the time to find someone who's from the island to play your dad. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I was going to call them on that. I was like, please, Jesus. I can't hear another bad Jamaican accident in my lifetime. Lord, have mercy. Everybody on his planet got to act and speak past.

somebody. So they were able to, I text Kay about that too. I said, you know, I was sitting with a friend in her living room and she's Jamaican as well as one of my closest friends. Yeah. And we were just gabbing about it, you know, like, wow. And it's, you know, Jamaican and she was like, is he going to be authentic Jamaican? And I was like, girl, you're right. Let me go on Texas. And I asked Kay. And she was like, yep, he's from Jamaica. And I just thought, wow, so really cares. I mean, it's like, really care about, you know, some people would, listen, we had, we had people who really had our back and wanted stories to feel really authentic. And it meant a lot, I'm sure, to the audience, but, you know, to me, as the actor. Let me ask you one more before we delve into the episode. Had you met Rachel before, and what did you think of that young lady and her portrayal in the past? I hadn't met Rachel. Yeah. Like you're told, too, SK, it's like making me so cool and relaxed.

You got something. I hadn't met Rachel. And when we saw each other, the funny thing is I went to one of her scenes, that she was doing one of her scenes. And she was like in the bedroom or something, and like she just had interaction with Felicia. She was in her bedroom looking in the mirror or something. was going on. And we met each other and the wild thing that neither of us thought we looked

alike. And she was like, I so don't look like you. And I was like, I know, we don't really lookal like that one. But I was like, but something about it feels like, you know, the essence of something. Yes. But I have never been told so much by my own family included that I look like somebody more than Rachel. Like, yeah, I'm going to tell you. They pop that, also they pop that Contact in her eye. It's a contact. They put the mold in her ear and her eye and I was like, oh, snap. Where did it get a little soap?

Yeah, it's on and poppin. So, yeah. So, but I was a fan of her work. Her acting is just fantastic. And she was a fantastic dancer. I was like, she's got it all. Ballet history, right? I mean, I thought you did too, by the way.

I didn't realize. I did. I have some, but I left it. You know what I mean? I did like what I needed to do to sort of, In the school that I went to, you had to take ballet in order to take anything else. It was sort of like a foundation. So I did as much as I needed to do so that I could take other. Speaking of dancing, how long did you have to train to learn that sequence that sort of happens at the end?

Okay. So that was about four months. And it was so, like, we train like a few times a week. for months to do it. And I even like, on Thanksgiving, I think it was around then, like I rented out of a studio when I was back in New York and, like, trained through the holiday and did all that. And it was, it was pretty intense

because I was hoping that it would look as much like, you know, the ballerina as I could. Oh, it did. But, yeah, we trained, we trained a while for it. I have an anecdote about it when we get to it because I remember conversations with my on-set betrothed that were, she's like, S.K., I worked real hard on this thing, Mujigger. I'm really excited to do it. You know, I just hope they use it in the show and everything. I said, well, Sue, I'm going to come watch you do your thing. She's like, S.K., you ain't got to come do it. I was like, girl, I'm come watch you do your thing. And it was such a, like, when you put in that time and that work or whatnot, and, you know, and our director,

was a dancer as well, right? Didn't she, she has a dance background as well, what now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, musicals and all that, yeah. But to see Sue do her thing and shine in that thing, right? Because I do, after it was over, she was like, S.K., they cut half the thing of my jigger. You barely even see them on dance. It's going to get to that part.

I was going to get to that part, actually. I was like, yeah, because it was like, I was going to get to that when we got to the dance part. But I remember asking Dan, I was like, we sure didn't do a lot of dance for the amount that got in there. I feel a lot more tired than that edit looks. It is one of the things because I, and I feel you on that in terms of how it, the edit, but it doesn't, nothing feels like it's missing.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? As a fan rewatching it, like having had the conversation with you. Go ahead, say that to Susan. Having had the conversation with you, it feels completely. complete and beautiful and friggin' awesome. Oh, yeah. Right?

And so, but we will, I will go find Dan and say, I need the unedited footage of Susan's dance so we can show people how Moss truly gets now. So you'll get that. Okay, I got you. Well, I didn't see, I've never seen the unedited. And I think a part of me thought, like, well, maybe it just wasn't. No, no, no, times of like the ballet of it.

Nope. So I never, I never watched it. I never watched it. But I will say, you know, full heart and soul went into it. Yeah, that's clear. It taught me a big lesson about television and sort of what my part is and then how I have to give it over. Yes, I feel you. You know, and you got to take the heart breaks.

It's a heartbreak to see something like that. And you go, man, you know what I mean? And then you see that and you go, okay, and I have to now process that and let that go. So it did do a lot in terms of how I approached work after that. Yeah. It's a total lesson. The expectation that we have sometimes. Put in about half as much effort after that.

There you go. Well, yeah. You know, after that, I only trained like one session per. We just phoned it in. We phoned it in. Who wants to lead this episode in terms of like delving into it? No. Jump in.

I think we should go through Susan's timeline. Let's go through it. And that way if we can go as long as we want, quote unquote, but when she has to leave, then if we have to get to other stuff, we can do that. No, I text. I'm good.

All right, right, right. We're in. I mean, the show kicks off with a classic, this is us. Wait, wait, wait, who's this? Yeah. Well, that's Fischer Rashad.

That's it. Well, who's, why is she in the show? And then you hear someone say, Principal Clark, and you're like, okay, wait a second. Yeah. All right. And then we see,

throughout this sequence, a woman hurt her hip. Yeah, someone slams her into it. A little boy just runs down the steps like he and, I don't know where, got no home training or nothing. And she just, I love, I love Felicia Rashad's, um, expressions of pain. I love her expression.

It's like, because it's like, she doesn't want to show anything. She's like, I'm fine, so-and-so. Don't you go on the class? She is, I love her. Like, everything, everything about her is regal. Yeah, so regal. Whether you are, the principal of her. high school. You can be a lawyer married to a doctor. You can be married to a tragedy. She is

regal. I just wrote, she is someone you do not want to disappoint. There you go. In the classic, this is us tradition of bringing television legends into our sphere. Yeah. She is the matriarch of television. Yeah. Yes, she is. Like an end of story. Truly. Yeah. Point blank period. We cut to Beth and Zoe. driving to D.C. They're listening to a little TLC getting down. Yeah, it's funny, because I remember we were picking the song because we had to find something we could both, like, jam on.

And we were choosing the T. What did we land? What about your friends? What about your friends? Yeah. Okay, yes. I remember, I remember us choosing. Did Mel know the lyrics?

Probably not. She's British. You know, she a friend, man. Did she know the lyrics? But you know, TLC was worldwide. Let me not try to play Mel. It's true. Well, here's the other question, though, what else do you remember being in the running?

Because the network probably had to approve something. Totally. Yeah, you have to, like, approve, what were we looking? We were looking for, like, sort of, I guess, 90s songs. You know what I'm saying? Or, like, what was hot that we would have listened to as kids. And so I think it might have been, like, which groups or something like that. But TLC, there was more than.

one song. Yeah. And then we were trying to find something that felt like that had a bit of a sisterly something. Sure. Yeah. You know, or something that felt like that. So not. Let's talk about sex. So what about your friends felt like it? Yeah. What about your friends? It's a good call. Don't go chasing waterfalls. In the midst of this, in the midst of you guys grooving and whatnot, you're kind of talking about you're going to lay down the law. You're going to lay down the law with me, right? Because you have to have a conversation with your mom about the possibility of retiring, taking it easy. You know, you're getting up there in age. You're just, you're just hurt yourself last, not too long ago, you hurt yourself again.

Maybe you need to slow down. But there's something that happens typically, and Zoe sort of points to this, that, like, you tend to clam up once you get around your mom. And it's interesting how we fall into these roles. We're all grown-ass human beings, right? But every once in a while, when you get into your family, you become like whatever age you were when last you were in that present. Does that happen for anybody?

Yeah. Yeah? I am a 45-year-old, 12-year-old. Yeah. More that was us after this short break. Ever try finding a needle in a haystack? Sometimes I can't even find my keys in my own purse. Come on, Mandy.

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Do you know what Summer always reminds me of? What? When I was a kid, my family would caravan cross-country together. Caravan. Four or five vehicles, right? My uncle, who was in charge of it, would hook up the CB radios for everybody so we could communicate amongst each other. And we would road trip to Orlando. My family is from Arkansas, so we would go to Arkansas.

We would go to New Mexico. We've gone to Denver, Colorado. We went to Los Angeles one time. We went to the Redwood Forest. Like every summer, my family got together and had these wonderful, wonderful road trips. And as we're watching, this is us and reliving the Pearson family cabin, it just makes you appreciate how much the place matters when you're making those memories. Totally. It's not just the destination, it's where you stay.

Yes. Having a home where you can crash after a long day, cook a big meal together, just hang out. That's the stuff you remember. And that is why we love staying at Airbnb's when we travel. It gives you the real, we're all in this together feeling that you just can't get in a hotel. And while you're out there this summer, whether it's visiting your favorite place or exploring a new one, your own home could be hosting someone else's adventure. Hosting on Airbnb is an easy way to open your space when you're away. You're in control.

When you host, how you host, and Airbnb makes it really simple to get started. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Sue, but Sue, you get a chance to see your family with a bit more regularity because you guys are in the same city and whatnot. Do you feel like your mom, your actual mom, has done a better job of allowing you to grow up, or do you think she still sees you at a certain point

in your development? My mom still stays mommy. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's gonna stay, like, that's her position. I don't think she's ever gonna not do that. There's a protective side of her that always wants to be protective. I have, I declared my independence, like, pretty young. Okay.

So I don't feel like I get a wrong. around her and feel like I have to sort of play the position of a child, but it is a, there is a position of respect that I very much endow that relationship with and sort of, a spirit of kind of letting things be, I guess, what they are now, do you know what I'm saying? But again, just having that respect, knowing, just an understanding of who my mom is. Like, I'm not trying to really change my mom. You know what I'm saying? And I'm hoping she's not trying

to change me. That's interesting. But I really do you know, the little wins I get, like my mom is like drinking more water now. You know what I'm saying? Like I got, like I got a, like she got coconut water in her life. She's hydrated. She's hydrated.

She's hydrated. You know what I'm saying? Like yeah. The most type of things I can kind of work with her, but who she is and who I You know, I'd just be hoping that that respect is there, that we could both just be those things. And, you know, when things are great, it's great if something feels a little like, annoying. It's like, all right, you know, we're grown. It is what it is at this point. Yeah.

But our relationship now, I think, at least for me, feels like from my adult positioning. It feels good right. I got you. The last thing that Beth, we find out is that Beth has not told her mom that she's lost her job. Yes. So we just know that little bit. Now, gang, I need your help here. Sure.

Do we stay in the present or do we go back and forth? Stay in the present. Let's stay in the present. Let's finish this storyline, yeah. Okay. They make it to the house. They're looking for the key. They're supposed to be under the rock.

Here comes old Regal Felicia. Felicia, excuse me. Just like, what y'all doing? What y'all doing, what are doing, rooting around my house? Why don't you come on in here? And they're like, hey, Mama, see. Hey, Mama, good to see you, whatnot. They're like, what are you doing walking around?

She's like, what are you going to tell me that I'm supposed to not be walking around? Like, she has no time for pity, for any sort of like illustration of weakness or whatnot. It's like everything that is about her is that I'm fine, I'm here to take care of you, right? Like it's an interesting thing because we all, well, I don't know if we all know this, but there comes a point in time in our sort of evolution where the kid becomes the person that takes care of the adult, right? Like, Mama C is not ready for that to hand it over. No. No.

She's like, I'm going to go heat up dinner for you guys. She's ready to just take the lead. Any other thoughts on this scene, Sue? Because you was the one that was in it. No, keep going. This was the first time as an audience member for myself where I realized, like I knew that you and Zoe, Beth and Zoe, grew up together. I didn't realize that you grew up together. Yeah, like under the same room.

Like, it wasn't, I don't know why it wasn't clear to me in my mind, but I was like, oh, this is way more close than I realized. Yeah. Yeah. Like a sister relationship, rather than you because it's... Well, because we do know from the backstory that she had evidently spent some time with her parents until she had to not spend time. Of course. And they talk about that a little bit later in their scene in the washroom.

It just wasn't visualized to me until these flashbacks. Exactly. I was like, oh, this is like, around the dinner table together. My favorite part of the flashbacks is that you have... three siblings and we don't see none of them like you don't mean anybody but then there's an explanation for it too which we which we will get to right um so beth is looking at pictures in the house and and it's the first time that we realize because she's looking at pictures of her younger self as a dancer and with a certain level of wistfulness and we're sort of understanding like this was one of them was

It's me, too, by the way. It's my little tutu. Yeah. It's like a blue tutu picture in there. Oh, sweet. Easter egg. I love it because, like, we're recognizing that this was indeed a big part of her past, right? And that's, up into this point, urban planning is what we've known about, Beth.

Yes. You know what I'm saying? She's been the rock for her husband and everything. And part of who she is has almost been defined in terms of, like, what she does for the family, for her husband, as a mother, et cetera, but not what is Beth? As an individual. Who is Beth? You know what I'm saying?

As an individual, right? That's pretty cool. So they're sitting at the dinner table. Oh, we're at the dinner table. Yes. I love this. Okay, so we're at the dinner table, right? Yes.

And Mama C puts us curry chicken. Yes. Yep. For the dinner. So I had the biggest back and forth with, with Kay and Ebony. Ebony, yeah. About the spice that goes in the curry chicken.

And I was like, they had it as like habanero peppers. And I say, y'all, it can't be habanero. It's just, it's not giving Jamaican. And they were like, no, we Googled it. And it's habanero. I said, I don't know what Google. I don't know about the Google. I know what is in Jamaican.

It's going to be scotch bonnet, you know? Yeah. And they were like, well, and I mean, we really went back and forth. And I said, y'all, just we got to do the scotch ban. If you want people to be like, oh, wow, they was really authentic with the scotch bonnet so they eventually changed it to scotch bonnet and i promise you there were people in my on my instagram page yes like wow and y'all had the scotch bonnet in there too wow i just knew that i mean people really one thing jamaicans are going to pay attention to is details

yes yeah like it is a big deal with us it's like it's all about the little details yeah and so So to put that in there as well, really resonated with the, you know, with that dinner. It's a very traditional, you know, Jamaican dinners, rice and peas and curry goat and whatever, maybe vegetable that would go on the side. It's also one of those things where you have to give the show credit because, like, there's little things that happen all the time. But like, when you do say something, they were like, guys, just hear me on this one. Yeah. And there's like, you're right, we know what we know and we know what we don't know. So let's, like, take the input of everybody involved

to try to make the best possible opera. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You always feel heard, which is fantastic. Absolutely. You know what I mean? You're always considered and you always heard. So you guys do the Scotch Bonnet.

The chicken is on point. You try to begin the retirement conversation, not going super well. And then it takes Zoe. Zoe's like a blunt force instrument. She's like, you know, you need to retire, right? Like, we're concerned about you. Maybe not retire fully, but do something to take care of yourself.

Mom turns to her and says, what do you know about a job? Ooh. Yikes. It's like, you're looking at me with your little documentaries and something. You pop up and do movies. You don't know nothing about a job? Me and my daughter know about a job. She's been showing up every day.

Her life has purpose because she wakes up and does something because that's how I've raised there. And you say, well, actually, I ain't been going to my job for a few months now. Right. Yeah. Record skit. Also, I feel like this is the first time this episode that we've learned, Beth is Bethany.

I found that really interesting because, I mean, you're Beth, you're Beth. Totally. Everyone calls you Beth, but, like, hearing your mom say, like, your full legal name or something about that that feels very intentional. Yeah. Bethany, Bethany, Bethany, Bethany, yeah, exactly. Because even if we don't fall back into these roles, sometimes there are, parents who like to keep us. Yes. And there's a certain way of calling a name or treating a person

that will put them back in their place. I think for Mama C, it's imperative for her because it keeps her in her same position. She doesn't have to feel like he's getting older or she, you know, things are changing for her. She can like still sort of let everybody know, no, you know, things are still the same around here. You know what I'm saying? And like she's very much in a position to handle herself and handle this family i feel you we've been talking about over the last couple episodes about the generational differences between especially in this world between uh the the the grown-up pearson kids and their and their spouses and the generation before and how unemotional you know that somebody jack jack is really trying to break that cycle right he's you can see him actively trying to

to break the cycle of what his extremely abusive and unemotional father had tried to instill in him. But this is the first time, I think, that we've seen like a kind of an emotionally buttoned-up matriarch from the generation before that is showing a, like, a really different angle on why that generation is that way. Yeah. I mean, there's even something, and we'll get to it more specifically, but I remember my mom telling me something about the weight in which she disciplined me with corporal punishment, right? And I say discipline because I never felt abused or any other thing like that. She had to prepare me for the world that she was about to send me out into, and she would often say the world, if I don't do it, the world will beat you up worse than I will right now. There was one point. And the other thing that she would say is, I don't have time to talk all this stuff through.

I'm a single mom raising this boy. Like, I need you to do what I need you to do when I need you to do it. Okay? Like all this talk talk? Yeah. I got to go to work. We don't have time. You got to go to school.

I don't have the luxury. You know what I'm saying? And that's, I think, something that sort of like, Mama C even echoes herself later on in this episode, right? That's right. So where were we, Mandy Moore? Come on. keep me on track. Well, I was just going to say that mom jumps right in to like, all right, we're going to figure out these next steps. Like, I'm going to, we're going to get on and

we're going to look at your resume. We're going to type it up. We're going to get it printed or whatever she said. And you, I think, jump in. You're like, what? Like, what year is this? We're going to print up my resume and, like, mail it out to people. Yeah. But it's just like, that's the way she does. It's like onward and upward and like the trajectory is forward. And we don't have time to like wallow and we're going to figure this out together and does beth say something to her like what if i don't want your help does she say that in this in that in that section do you remember this what i'm talking about i don't i feel like is this if this is the section where it's just me and her at the table it's later and we're kind of i'm standing she's sitting we're kind of going

back and forth i don't think so i think that's later it's later it's later what i'm thinking what i'm thinking about is later i'll get to it i'm no one jump through because before we get to that you are laying awake in bed, and then Zoe comes to you and's like, come on, I got to show you something. Turns out there is, how old, how long does weed last? I don't know. I don't smoke enough to know, like, is there? I thought the same thing. I was like, that was some vintage-ass weed that was ending.

Okay. Yeah. And how many times have we seen Beth get high on this show now? This is number two. Number two, okay. This is number two to bring. I mean, of all people, this is number, yeah. And now, you know, she stores stuff at her house, apparently.

and, you know, oh, habit's doctor. She was a real. Yeah, a habit for me here. It does bring one of my favorite. The laugh. The laugh. The Beth High laugh. Is the bus.

And I want to know, when you discover this laugh? We don't ask people to do impressions on this show, but if we could get one of those laughs, that would be great. It makes. Is it like? That is it?

Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That laugh is from, that is from, like, my child, that is from growing up. That is like, it is from something, like, very specific. And I have to remember what it is. But I wonder if it was from, I mean, was I ever, like, lying laugh like that? I don't know.

But, like, it's from something very specific. And I remember thinking to myself, oh, that would make, like, a good high laugh. I remember working with Ron. Yes. Actors mind right there. The episode in season two. And I was just talking about this the other day. rehearsal and I was talking about how, because they were talking about rehearsing scenes and stuff.

And I remember being with Ron and we were, we would be offset rehearsing that, that episode together. And I remember like talking with him and going through and kind of like, you know, playing around with how we were going to be high and all this kind of stuff. And I remember that laugh kind of emerging in that basement. And so it was definitely like this callback to it, I Yes, from remembering, like, how she was when she was, you know, high then. You kind of, I would imagine, stay consistent, right? So the laugh, the laugh came back. That's your laugh. It's the laugh heard around the world.

It's found its way back. The only way that you can excuse that laugh. You got to be high. Oh, it's the greatest laugh. Otherwise, people like, please, shit. No, no, no, no. It's like the sweet. It was like a little sweet Seth Rogan.

Totally. Yeah. Totally. Totally. But the scene is also, like, really lovely. because it sort of, it sort of frames Zoe's relationship to Mama C, vis-a-vis her own children and sort of what she came from. Like, Zoe was also always sort of just kind of mouthing off in a way that, like,

Mama C's kids would never do. Yeah, she got away with. She got a little bit more latitude. And I think because there was a recognition of what she was coming from. And for those of you who don't remember, like, she was abused by her father, sexually abused by her father. So now she's coming to a family that has stability and warmth. And even though you have this very strong matriarch, she's able to give this young girl a little bit more leeway than she does with her own children

because this young lady was just coming from an awful, awful situation. Right? And we say it without saying it in the scene, which I thought was really quite lovely and beautiful the way that they... I love that. When you don't have to spell everything out, it's like, if you know, you know. If you've been watching the show, you understand the history. Exactly. Exactly. Right. But then she was talking about, like, you know, she was harder on you guys. Yeah, she was. I mean, I think, and I think Beth resented that a little bit. You know what I'm saying? It was like, why did I, you know, kind of get the brunt of it or, you know, why does she feel like she's in a position where she can't really say? Why does she have to be the one to clam up? Right. You know, why, you know, can Zoe feel free to come in the house and kind of be bold and, you know, sort of be her authentic self? And I have.

had to somehow find a permission to do that. And to me, that was sort of what the episode became. It was like about Beth finding her permission to re-engage with who she was outside of motherhood, outside of wifedom, outside of this box that she had found herself in, and wanted to kind of paint herself out of. And sort of one of the last hurdles was really

confronting the place where she felt like she had um started to feel boxed in yeah which was at home which was in dance you know the the way that she had experienced those things at that time and now she realizes like you know those things really mean a lot to me it was just the way that I experienced yeah and now I I want to give my whether I have my mother's position or not I want to give myself the permission you know and now I'm mom I'm just putting you on notice right like this is what I'm doing. And to find the courage to do that. As you said, it's hard to go back to a house that you grew up in and try to break out of the mold that they have you in. That's a difficult thing to do to try to find a voice outside of the voice that you've established and that they

know you to have the voice that makes the family function in the way that it does. And to go back and say, no, you know, and hopefully we can create something sort of new out of this. That felt like what her real journey was. Right. Yeah. Throughout it, you know what I'm saying? You're trying to find that and trying to unlock within herself, basically, her own permission.

Yeah. I mean, because Zoe says to you, she goes, something bigger is going on with you and you need to talk about it, right? So, yeah. In order to talk about the next scene, we should jump back. a little bit to the past because they talk about Beth losing her father. Yeah. She comes home one day and they break the news that her father has lung cancer to her and Zoe.

And it's another kind of real display of Mama C's exacting nature, the term we learned earlier, of just how like, this is the problem, this is how we're going to deal with it. Yeah. And this is how you're all going to deal with it. with it right so we learn this information and then your father uh sits down to tell the story of of of when beth started to dance and talks about um burning spear dread river and how and this is where we get the title of of the episode yeah it's a little island girl who danced before she woke She was 18 months.

Listen, I'd be concerned. My kid wouldn't walk in 18 months. I was like, hey, get up. She just needed the music. She needed the motivation. She just needed the music. Once the music was there, it came naturally, right? But there's this wonderful sort of juxtaposition of young Beth as she was leaving her dad

after she wipes her tears and gave him a hug. And she says, Dad, and he's waiting for her to say something else. And she goes, never mind. And then we flash back to that. And we see Sue, present day, Beth, and she says all the things kind of. She wanted to say to her dad. That she needed. And many more were saying this off camera.

Yeah. We need to say it on camera or whatnot. Hey, man, you killed it. This is in the Mount Rushmore of This Is Us scenes. It's not easy to because, like, on screen. Thanks, y'all. On screen, it's like, oh, everything is edited and whatnot. And really, what's happening is the sister's talking to a chair.

But the chair is endowed. Right, right? It's not just a chair. Like, she's talking to the spirit, the presence of the... Like, I can't be who I am without you. Yeah. Can you tell us about that day, that day of shooting, that moment? It felt fast, you know?

It felt... It didn't feel as long as it, I think, even played out. It felt fast. But I do remember the room sort of being... very sort of mood-lit, it felt kind of dark. And the idea of what she was saying goodbye to her, or her again, sort of trying to bring some kind of closure or shift to chapters in the past in her life was so moving to me.

You know, I'm close with both of my parents. I understand what that is. now what it is to lose a parent, but then it was the idea of even that was, and then trying to reconcile from this place of physical disconnect was just like really moving to me. And so those are, those are like the bits and pieces of it that I remember and sort of, it's funny, I don't remember, I remember it being an empty chair, but it didn't feel like it was. You know what I'm saying? I totally know.

I feel sort of filled with something or presence or the, or that understanding of like sometimes, you know, all this happens to all of us when we're alone and there's these imagined conversations we wish we could have and our imagination is so vivid, it almost feels as if we're really speaking to that person. It's interesting. And so I personally love storytelling where we get a chance to see people in there alone. and the reality of what that is because it's such an intimacy that we're not usually exposed to because obviously we're all doing it alone. Yeah. And so I always find those moments really fascinating and really vulnerable.

Like you can be your most vulnerable because it's as if nobody was watching. And so I remember thinking, you know, about those things. This is a very alone moment. So it can be as vulnerable. as it needs to be. It was, in him, in the past, telling you the story of who you are and telling you not to forget who you are, one of the first things you say is, I'm going to forget. I'm going to forget that part of me.

Because, I mean, like, me as a TV husband slash audience member watching, I was like, I didn't know dance was this important to you, Vett, which is one of the moments what comes later. Again, this was one of the most indelible, moments in my mind is when I tell her to put a pen in it. I was like, oh, we didn't show with them Little Island girl. We didn't show how important all this stuff is to her.

And this Negro go ask her to put a pin in it. I was like, this ain't going to go my way. This ain't going to go my way. No. Yeah, we've already seen that episode, sir. Sorry. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. Hold on, everyone. Let's set the mood right.

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What's that? Is that six bottles of wine? What's going on? To pick a variety of whites and reds and rosés and kind of like everything in between. I mean, you just never know who you're going to have over, what people want. So having a variety, stopped is very important. Always ready to entertain. And honestly, there's nothing better than cracking open a bottle, putting away your phone, and just being present with the people you love.

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that she doesn't want her help. She's like, I'm about to send out these resumes. We're going to do this. And she's like, what if I don't want your help? It's like, what would you have had us do? Wallow and our grief. Okay, so that was in response to... And so you can talk about this thing because you're the one there.

But it was like, you're kind of talking about... we just kept moving forward. Like, you know, dad passed away, and we just sort of, like, pulled it together. There was no time for tears, no time for anything else. We just kind of, like, had to, like, keep the trajectory going. And your mom is like, what are you, what we're supposed to do? Just sit around and wallow in the grief. It almost feels, and I don't know if we've set this up,

seems very interesting between, like, the Pearson's and the Clarks. Yeah. Because a lot of people will accuse the big three of, like, can y'all get over it? You know what I'm saying? Like, can the big three move a little quicker? Yeah. Because the clerks are done. Yeah.

We didn't already dealt with this stuff. What would you have us do? Make seven seasons of a TV show about the death of your father? You can't go on for that many episodes. It would never work. It would never work to wallow that long. People wouldn't watch it. Yeah.

But I'll talk to us a little bit, too, because it was such a huge scene. And it finally. sort of like showing up with your mom in a way that was like, listen, I can't shrink anymore. This shrinking has not served me in my life. Like, the shrinking is actually sort of caused the atrophy of me not actively pursuing the thing that makes me feel most like me. Oh, that's it, right? That's it. It's really the shift that happens in their relationship, happens at the table, you know, in the middle of the night.

And it was so necessary, it's like this face off, but, you know, what I really remember is, is acting opposite Felicia Rashad. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, she's, she really is masterful at it. You know what I'm saying? I know we all know this, but I actually have to say it. And as an actor with her, that. That's a lot of what I remember is being able to like, oh, my gosh, you know, you could play, name any sport, tennis, basketball with like one of the best players, you know? Yeah.

And so the thought is like, where could this scene go? Right. Let's just take it to wherever the F is going to go. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And like, see what this is. Let's like blow this is wide open. I don't know if y'all cursing the show or not, but let's blow it wide open.

And I have somebody to do that with. And also, like, as an actor in the scene, like, how far can I take, like, what else can I discover in this? Because here's somebody who I can do that with or who, you know, that there's an ease in doing that with. That was me as the artist in the scene. As the, as the character, it was very, it was like her moment of sort of liberation in a way. It's like, you know, she's hearing her voice. Her mom is finally hearing her voice. Her voice is breaking free, you know.

And it was a much longer scene. I remember going back and forth with Dan about it because Dan had cut a lot. And I said, Dan, oh, you need this, you need that. He's like, no, Sue, it's like a double beat. We get it. We get, you know, whatever. And I was like, really?

I felt like, oh, there was so much more I wanted to, like, say. There was parts of it that we don't see that I felt like, oh, I felt like that was the meat of it. But in what we got and what we captured, I think, was so filled and so fraught with so much of the emotions that Beth was dealing with and also what her mother was, you know, discovering about her and sort of this loop that she was being thrown for, that it played through. And so it was, yeah, that one, that one was very, very memorable for me.

Yeah, and facing off with, I mean, even know your friends, facing off with, I'd be afraid to tell Felicia Rashad anything. Yeah. About anything. Because as soon as she responded, I'd be like, no, yeah, that's right. What you said is right. Yeah, yeah. But that's what she'd been our whole life.

You know what I mean? It was like, yeah, right. You're right. You know, shut it down. And then this was the chance to, you know, trying to go, okay, no, no, we're, you know, I'm going for this. Yeah. There's a couple of lines that I put quotations around that just sort of stuck out in my head.

in reference to dance, you didn't have to take it from me. It hit like, because we'll talk about it in the past storyline or whatnot, but it was such an abrupt thing. Like, this is what we're going to do. You've taken that as far as you can go, and now I need to prepare you for this, right?

And it was done out of love. That's the thing that we have to remember, right? Like, it may not have been the thing that she wanted, but in her mind she thought it was the most loving thing to do to make sure that her daughter had a path forward through life. Yes. Right? Setting her up for success.

Setting her up for success. I thought about this a lot watching from a parental perspective. Yeah. Because Rachel and I both grew up in competitive activities, right? Right. Rachel was a competitive gymnast. She was a gymnast. And I was a competitive tennis player.

Yes. To this point, right, to this point where, like, if you, it would be hard for me to explain to anyone just the amount of time and energy. put into one of these things if you didn't know me back then and now with kids it makes me wonder at what point if as you're watching this

person develop do you pull the I don't know if you can pull the plug anymore can you pull the plug in the 2000s can you be like I have to tell you something son you're not good at this or or being the lead of a ballet company is no

longer possible like this is where this story ends right like it's just because there is you can see even though mama see is is uh direct and and and up front it's and a little harsh it's there's love in it yeah there's protection in it and so yeah it was it was a tricky tricky thing to watch and tricky thing to to watch and be like how would I apply that yeah to to future scenarios. Any thoughts on that? Yeah. Ladies, you get, like, that's a real question. You guys got any thoughts on that? No, I mean, I feel like I'm in a similar boat. How do you navigate those waters? Yeah. I can say this. So I'm not there yet. I'm not a dream killer.

Like, as a rule, I'm not, I'm not a dream killer. But I see, I got two sons and they have different skill sets, some overlap and some are, you know, the separate ones. I always just try to highlight a path that I think will be successful, right? I never try to eliminate the other path. I always just try to highlight, like, hey, man, you're so good. When I get a chance to see you do this, there's a natural sort of proclivity, and the more you work at it, the better you get at, et cetera, et cetera. Why does dad keep leaving these ping pong paddles around?

Not so subtle hints. But things like that instead of the abruptness because this is, so here's a quick, story, and I think I may have shared this before, or I've said this in another time. Maybe. I'll touch on it quickly. Arlene Brown, my dear, dear, dear, dear, sweet mama, who I love to pieces. She wanted to be a doctor. I think I've said this before. And because she was the oldest born of her five siblings, but not the oldest born son. So her dad would not pay for her to go to school to pursue anything, like even in the medicinal area. So her younger brother, who's a year younger, said, I want to be a doctor,

and he was able to afford pharmacy school for him, right? So whereas mom went on to go to teachers' college, which was a very popular profession for black women of that time or whatnot, has a few different master's degrees. It wasn't what she wanted to do. When I came from economics to drama at Stanford, and I said, Mom, I think this is what I want to do, there was no hesitation.

I think because she was deprived of that dream for her, of the thing that she saw herself becoming. She wasn't going to do that for her child. Like, you're going to do this thing. And it didn't, it didn't matter like success. My mom's definition of success is like a life full of meaning, right? Like, does your life give you, do you have a sense of purpose? Do you have a sense of inspiration in your life that keeps you wanting to wake up the next day to do the thing

that you want to do? Like, it's weird that we both were sort of like, oh, money didn't matter, right? And I think she wanted to be a doctor because she liked the idea of healing people and helping people and being of service in that way. She's a really smart woman. And I think she saw me as an actor. And she would always have little notes and give me sort of things. And she thought that she was like some sort of acting guru. Not really.

But she's sweet. Like, she had thoughts and opinions, et cetera. but she had so much love that she was like, listen, you do it, right? You prayed about it. God will handle it. I think that's the other thing is that there was a level of faith on her part

that was like, you know what, I may not have all the answers and I don't know exactly where you need to go to do this thing in the Jigga, but I do know that God's got you and we're just going to ride with that. Right. So I just wanted to shout out.

I want to shout her out on this one specifically because she has ALS, does my mom, and for the longest time, I didn't know who's going to go first between Rebecca and Arlene. And now she's been seven years diagnosed and still care. And, you know, her body can't do much, but her brain is still present. And I don't know if she listens to the podcast, to be perfectly honest with you. But I want anybody who does listen to the podcast, who knows my mama, I want her own record. The woman would not be who I am without her in this episode about these black

women, I just had to shout out Arlene Brown. That's it. That's all much. Shout out. Shout out. Thank you. Thank you. Shout out to Arling Brown. Shout out to the parents who are, you know, still trying to do it even under really hard circumstances. Yeah. You know? Yeah. My dad was dealing with Parkinson's while I was on This Is Us and other ailments and, you know, God bless my mother and father, great team. When I look at it now, you know, the team that they're, they were, but the responsibility that my mother had to take on, you know, she definitely deserves a standing ovation. Yeah.

And the courage with which my dad continued to live against odds that blew the minds of doctors. Yeah. And when you speak about the testimony of God and what can be done, I have to speak about that because I've seen a lot of sort of miracle things happen. despite what people said could happen. And in a lot of those things, I think, feed who we are as we act, especially in a show like this one. A woman came up to me the other day. I'm jumping, but as we do.

Yesterday I met a woman at Tribeca Film Festival talked about watching the train episode six times because she's working on a script, a film script right now about a mother and a daughter. and she specifically talked about the scene where I'm saying goodbye to Rebecca and I'm with Mandy in the room. And I was telling her, I said, you know, it's funny. That was one of the first things when I came back after my father had transitioned and I had to do this scene. And I didn't say, you know, too much on the set about it or whatever. But, you know, it was that. And what the things that fuel so much of.

the show aren't just stories that are kind of ripped from the lives of the public in general. Sometimes it really just hits home for us, you know? And how do we, you know, allow that to be kind of funneled through into the spirit of our story and what we're doing? So in those last scenes, in those last episodes, so much of the spirit of my father is in there as, you know, she's taking the train home. he was taking the train home and, and, you know, so shout out to Ozzie Watson, who was my buddy. And shout out to my mother, you know, who was, you know, his rider and held him down. And so those things are like, there's so much reflection of that in what we did and what we were doing in these, you know, parental relationships, you know, child parent relationships that are a reminder for me too, very much so. Absolutely.

Yeah, Sue, thank you for sharing that. Big eyes. A couple other lines from that scene before we get to the next scene between the two of you, which is just as extraordinary, if not even more so. There's no air around you. Yeah. There's no air to breathe, no air to be sad, no air to fail. Yeah.

Right? And she says, but it's okay if you don't like me because you'd make mention about why your other brothers and sisters don't come around. It's because of the lack of air. She's like, it's okay if they don't like me because I had to prepare them for to be in the world and to be good in the world. And you're like, I'm not good, mom.

I am not good. I haven't had my head in the clouds for years. Yeah. My husband, he dreams, right? And, like, that seems like such a small thing in the jig. But, like, the way you describe, like, I haven't had my head in the clouds for years. it's such a luxury but it's not just a luxury it's kind of a necessity in order to let your soul

flourish while you're in this human form to be able to dream yeah you know anybody want to say something about that well it made me think I was like when's the last time that I really dreamed like there is something about the innocence and the child like sort of permission that were given and almost expected as a kid to dream and to daydream and like think about the future. And I just, it reminded me too. I was like, wow, I like there is something so intoxicating about having that like privilege of doing it. You know what I mean? Of like of carving out that time of being very intentional about making that a mission.

Yeah. That I think is lost on us as we get older. It's just like life is lifing and we're parents and we're, we're busy with careers and obligations and bills and stress. And it's just like everything is conditioned, everything around us is conditioned to take us out of that state of being. And just thinking about Beth relaying that to her mom and really like pleading for herself. I was like, wow, I think that that's something that would do us all a wealth of good to, like, like put more of an onus and an emphasis on dreaming and bringing that into the forefront of our daily lives, too. It's so, it does feel essential, you know?

That's what this episode is about, dreaming. Yeah. I think it is. It's like also like permission, like you said, just picking back into what you're saying, it's like permission to dream even after becoming the wife and the mom. Yeah. Dream even after graduating from college and being the, you know, what was her job again? So there's the city urban planner. There you go.

Being in the urban planner. You know what I'm saying? And not just the episode, the entire show is about finding a partner who helps you do that. That's beautiful. Yes. You know what I mean? That's the beauty of it. The last few scenes in this show, you get a semi-reconsiliation with your mom.

You go home. you meet with your partner who has, you've now pulled up in front of a dance studio and you think, okay, Beth, Beth's going to dance. And while they're in the car, you're... I just want to get on that last scene between the two of them, because there's another scene the next morning when Beth's mom comes back to her

and tries to explain to her why she made the decisions that she made. You've got 90 seconds. I have 90 seconds for this. So I'm just going to read my notes and then I want Sue to chime in on these notes, okay? So mom tells Beth about her mother and the importance of education, right? And then in the midst of that, we meet your father, she meets your father and is described as bad company. But she says he wasn't bad company.

He just didn't take life quite so seriously, right? He gave her the air that she didn't have on her own, right? And then he tells the story about Abe coming while she's studying and feeding her. while she's studying, because she wouldn't take time to eat food, but her mom saw this man feeding her daughter while she was standing. He's like, okay, I guess he's okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Another partner that helps her dream. And that there was, she said, Bethany, I don't know if I made the right decision for you, but I didn't have time to question myself. My air was gone, and I just had me. and my worries, wanting my last child to be okay, right? And you say, you didn't fail me, mom, I'm strong because of you, right? And she says, I shouldn't have taken dance away so quickly, I'm sorry. And she said, thank you.

And this is just going back to Jack in the last episode, just saying, I made them, when you were able to apologize, right? And it doesn't matter if it is peer to peer. Yeah. If it doesn't mean if it's child to parent or parent to child. There's so much power in just hearing those words and being like, you know what, that's all I really want it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that accountability. What a message it sends. It's like, we continue learning that over and over again. I'm like, yes, that is how you do that as a parent. Like, wow. And also, it's so easy.

And also, it's powerful. It's powerful. I think some parents may think it may. weaken their position as a parent. Right. But there is something so powerful about apologizing. Apologizing is one of the hardest things you can do. Yeah.

So when you do that and sort of submit to like, submit in that position and sort of, you know, submit to the asking of forgiveness. Yeah. There is something really powerful in watching somebody do that because they're standing in something that they're owning. Yes. And saying, hey, you know, I'm going to offer this up.

And, you know, we can have. hide behind ego and all these things or like, you know, respect me and I'm na, nah, nah, but I found I respect so much a sincere apology. I just think it's like the highest form of like. The apologies in this show I have accepted on behalf of people who I want to hear apologies from. Right, right. In lieu of hearing it from now. Like Jack apologizing for the glitter for the sequin fight thing. I was like, all right, that's good enough for me. Like that's the, that's I'm sorry I needed to hear, I'll take it, you know, from anybody. It was so beautiful because, like, she, Mama C, Ms. Rashad is so strong throughout everything and whatnot.

And there's still strength that she's retelling this story or whatnot. And then just to humble herself to the place of like, you know what, I'm not sure. She's like, I didn't have time. I don't know if I did right by you. And if I messed up, I'm sorry. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nice, nice. And there was a light.

So, Chris. You reconciled. No, but yeah, she didn't. I mean, there's right and wrong and everything, right? So she didn't mess up. The new path she put you on. Led you to Randall. Right.

We see the flashback. You guys bumping into each other. We do. Oh, and Randall's just happy. Like, you know, this is the, she writes down in the past. She put Bethany on her name tag. Not anymore. And then she's like, you know what?

Now I'm Beth. New person. I'm just Beth. I'm just Beth, baby. Yeah. It's just me. It's just be right here. And old Randall's just grinning from here to here.

Like, all right, we're going to make this work. That's right. In the present, you come home, we have a kiss, and she says, I'm ready to tell you what I want to do next. They go to the dance studio. That's right. And you go ahead and do your thing. She's like, I know I'm too old. Like, child, please, you ain't until to do nothing.

Since winter, we care of what people say. And she gives me this look like, huh, right? Because her dad had said something to her very similar. the past as well. She goes in there into this room and she just starts dancing. And you see, and it cuts back and forth between young Beth and it sort of marries like, the person that I forgot that I was, I'm still that person. Yeah. I'm re- I'm remembering who that person is. I remember and put it to, and guess what, y'all? I went back to dance class now. Yeah? Really? I am back in dance class. Let me tell y'all something. Things can

inspire you to go back and I went back and I did I've been doing it now for maybe like two months or so okay and I went into the first class I took might have been like the west African um dance and when I tell you I found myself again I felt Afro-Brazilian I did as well and I felt so in my skin and in my body and so high I could not believe it and also and Also, I couldn't believe I could still do it because some part of me as a dancer because I haven't done it in so long. There's a rhythm that I feel like, I don't even know if I have it anymore. But you get back in the room and that music goes on and that thing starts pulsing through your body. And for me, it was my favorite form of communication.

If I didn't have to talk, I'd rather dance than talk. And it was, that thing left through my body again and I have felt so grounded in myself and in my skin. skin and you know whether I end up performing for people again or whether I'm doing it just for me whatever it is it completes me in a way that nothing else does and so to remember those parts of yourself stitch those things back together again to dream again to be that little kid again whatever it is that lights you up that's what i hope this episode encourage people to do you know it's just go back to and we heard so much feedback about that yeah but go back to that thing that sparks in you, you know, because it sparks for a reason.

A lot of times, you know, life, our life is so much about what sparks that can make you money, what sparks that you can, like, live off of in your life. But we can't forget the things that spark just because it brings us joy, just because it reminds us of who we are on the inside. It sparks because it sparks our creativity. It sparks because it makes us glow. Those things are just as important to continue to pursue. So I wanted to add that to it because I can't believe it.

I'm back. You know what I'm saying? And it feels. incredible incredible you ain't never left you ain't never lost there's no lie about and with that there's nothing else to say no what else is they to say

thank you guys it's so good to revisit the little the little girl who dance before she can walk oh my gosh that's right the lady's asking her what she wants to do is if you want to join this class I think you passed being a beginner you could

join the advanced guy she's like actually I got something else in mind I'm going to teach that's right and that's when Brown cried again Yeah, same, same. Yeah. And I just was like, how is Susan so good? Oh, thank you. It just boggles the mind.

You are the most, like, incredible, delicious performance. I just like, yeah, I'm obsessed with watching Beth and getting you, like, have this whole episode. It was just so long overdue. Yeah. Oh, man. I loved it. Thank you so, so much. It means so much.

And, you know, it was, it's lovely when we get those insights. into, you know, who we are, you know what I'm saying? And like, I feel like for Beth, after the two seasons, and I think this was in, yeah, it was season three, wasn't it? Yeah. To get a chance to, for me as a character, to get to know her deeper was just such a pivotal moment. And for the audience too, they needed it, they wanted it.

Really, really cool. Shout out to Rachel Hilsen too. We didn't get a chance to get too much into the thing. Shout out. But I will say this. I'm duster right now, H-P-O check around. I think the most profound thing for young ladies, especially, different body types manifest differently, right? And healthy, strong bodies don't all look the same.

And I think probably one of the one reasons that you're talking about dance, too, and, like, ballet is, like, because sisters have curves. Yeah. And oftentimes, curves are discouraged in the world of ballet. Like, ballet is about lines. Yeah. Not necessarily about curves. They were always like tuck your butt and I was like, I can't. This is as tucked as it gets, big dog.

She don't get no tucked her. You're not talking. No more than this. Pull your stomach is. I can't. You know what I mean? Can't. But I get it.

Listen, I have respect for that art form. There's some parts, you know what I mean? I know the form of it. I do. But I felt, you know, it was a little something different at that particular dance school. Definitely was a little something to you going on. What's funny too, though, but like the sister who came in and got the solo, she had curves too.

Yeah, I was like, right. Okay. Well, that wasn't the story we were telling me. That wasn't, this was just my personal. Yeah, yeah, I feel you. Yeah, I got you. Sue, thank you for being with this. Thank you, Sue.

We love you. Oh, guys, it's always a pleasure, man. Thanks for having me back. We know you got things going on or whatnot, but thank you for gracing us with your presence. And hopefully you get a chance to do it a couple more times as well. Yeah. Check her out now on the residents. Yes.

On Netflix. On Netflix. That's it. We love you. It's always a joy to be with my TV wife, man. She's one of my favorite human beings in this whole world, and I'm so glad she got a chance to shine in this episode. Yes.

We're going to step away for a moment. We're going to come back. We're going to come back with our fan segment. We got a beautiful letter from a beautiful lady, and this episode resonated very much with her. So stay tuned. We'll be right back. Welcome back to another episode of that was us. episode of that was us. So this fan segment, wow, this email really hit home for us. We received a

beautiful email from a listener that was so thoughtful and so moving. We wanted to share it with you guys. Tis the kind of message that reminds you just how powerful this show and the community we've built really is. It's a reflection on identity, family, sacrifice, and how seeing yourself represented on screen can feel like finally being seen in real life. And with that, let's share it. Okay. She says, Hi, guys.

Can I start by expressing how grateful I am that you guys are rewatching the show and doing a podcast on it? I was so geeked to know you guys fanboyed or fan girl over the show like the rest of us. It's very true. Sully, I rated and subscribed to the podcast. I also follow on YouTube and IG. Thank you so much. This is what we need to do. I watch the podcast religiously, just like I did the show.

and like each episode as I go along. Anything I can do to keep you guys going until you reach the end of season six, or at the very least, my favorite episode deep in season three, that would be episode 13, our little island girl. As a black woman, I identified with Beth immediately. Truthfully, I can't tell y'all how many times I silently screamed. I freaking love Beth while watching the show when Susan was on screen.

We freaking love Beth. Yeah, me too. And in this episode, Miss Sue, continued to deliver. In the story, this gorgeous successful woman had hit a roadblock professionally because the path that her mother had originally put her on had run its course.

And on top of that, she had to recalibrate while dealing with a headstrong parent. It's really something how whenever you go home, you seem to fall back into the rolls you held as a child. If one of my parents fell and bruised a hip, I'd be the child expected to go home and check. And my younger cousin would definitely check in alongside me.

Zoe reminds me so much of her, Beautiful, fearless, says what needs to be said. It's funny, my cousin and I call each other sister cousin, too. But what strikes me every doggone time I watch this episode is how much I see myself in Beth's mom. Mrs. Clark is exacting, practical, and suffers no fools or foolishness. She carries her mother's sacrifice with her and demands the best from herself and those she cares about. She sees life as, if this, then that. And things can become very black and white that way.

When Mama C apologizes to Beth for not allowing herself to see more gray in the world because the one person who gave her balance and created space to allow her to breathe it passed on, the dam behind my eyes breaks. And I have to pause the episode because it takes me a moment to recover from the heaving sobs. Quote, I just had me and my worries, unquote, she said. Same, sis, same. It's been said so many times in the podcast, and it's worth reiterating here how well this show portrays actual life. It takes all kinds of people to make this life gig do what it does.

It takes an abe to balance a carol. It takes a randle to reassure momentarily unsure Beth. It took both men reminding their partners, child please, when have we ever listened to people? The same song playing at the beginning and end of the episode, but performed by different generations, and a song which coincidentally reminds me of my mom who has always been my balance and whose sacrifices I don't take for granted. This episode, this show, and each of you are a gift, and I couldn't possibly be more grateful. Thanks for the opportunity to share.

Peace and blessings to each of you. Tamar. I believe it's Tamar. And Tamar, what a note. What a letter. I mean, is she or, this is us writer? I know. Maybe.

Like, you should come right on the show. Yeah. Incredible. I mean, we didn't even need to rewatch the episode. She just did her whole job for us. Carol is exacting. That's the perfect word to describe her. It was exactly.

I'm going to be honest with you. I don't even know if I clocked the song at the top of the episode. I didn't. The same song? Yeah. Thank you, Tamar. For bringing us in to your rewatch of the episode. Yeah.

I love it. It is awesome. And gosh, so many beautiful performances. And we've talked about them already, obviously, because we've already talked about the show. And we've already performed them. Exactly. The show. The show is us. We are the show. This is a time. But it is, it does mean it's, it's nice to be

reiterated, right? That when people see themselves, it sort of validates their existence, right? They know that they're not alone in anything. Yeah, their lived experience. And that their life is real and worth being told. I think that's what it is more than anything else. It's like, oh, somebody sees within characters like me a story that is worth being told. Yeah. So thank you for reflecting. that back to us. Gang, this has been another episode of that was us. That's right.

We feature Chris Sullivan. That's right. That's me. That's me. And we had our dear friend, Susan K. Wachin, on this particular episode. We're so grateful for her time and joining us. For Shizzle. And just lovely to be with you guys, to be in your company and get to talk about the show that we love so much.

It's the best. If you would like to reach out to us, you can. and write us a little note. That Was UsPod at gmail.com. Or you can call us at 412-5-10. Nope. Nope. Delete that.

See? 4-1-2-501-301-30-8. 2-8. And by the end of season 6, we'll have that number memorized. I mixed up the 510-0. It's 501. You wouldn't believe the number of lines we've memorized. in our lives.

And for some reason. Millions. And a single phone number. Because we don't have to type of it anymore. So true. All right. That's it for this one. Chris, you want to look at the camera?

What are you going to tell them? That was you watching. That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da-da-dum, that was us.