That Was Us - The Met | "New York, New York, New York" (416)

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 16: New York, New York, New York. Rebecca and Randall join Kevin in New York for his movie premiere, but the night takes an emotional turn. Through flashbacks of the Pearsons’ family trip to New York and again when the Big Three are in college, we see how The Met became such a meaningful place for Rebecca, and how those memories resurface when she’s faced with what comes next. Plus, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling chat about their behind the scenes memories of filming in New York, what happened one sleepless night, and so much more! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/twu for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. - Go to https://Leesa.com for 25% off PLUS get an extra $50 off with promo code TWU ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:08:18 Fan Segment 01:26:23 Outro Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season four, episode 16, New York, New York, New York. Rebecca and Randall joined Kevin in New York, but the night takes an emotional turn. Through flashbacks of the Pearson's family trip to New York, we see how the Met became such a meaningful place for Rebecca and how those memories resurface when she's faced with what comes next. Hello. What's going on, gang? It's up to you. New York, New York, New York, New York. New York, New York, New York.

This re brings back, so this is our second time going to New York as a show, right? Kevin and I went one time in season one. To roll around. With Seven Myers. Like, it did snow. That's correct. I felt like I did roll through a little bit of urine. For sure you did.

It was delightful. 100% did. It was delightful. Let's just say 100% of New York is covered in Europe. Yeah. All urine, human urine. There's something. All the urine.

Yeah. But this trip to New York was because we all three of us got to go. Me, Mandy, and Justin. And Milo. And Milo, and Milo. And my man who plays a teacher and like all the young kids were there too. Dave Annabelle. Were all the young kids there too?

No. Okay, so that was shot. No, that was shot at the L.A. Arboretum. Fun fact. Interesting. They like set up the carriage ride at the Arboretum. And the rest of like L.A., downtown L.A. was like for queens and stuff. Yeah.

But before we even get to the episode, there was an epic night. There are a few memories. Because I didn't get to travel a lot with a show. I didn't go to Vietnam. Justin got to go everywhere, didn't he? Pretty much. Yeah. He went everywhere except for Memphis.

Yeah, and Philly. And I didn't go to Vietnam. Yeah. So we didn't travel too much as a show. I didn't go to Vegas with you guys. What-ups. But New York was fun. And because, like, there wasn't a ton of, like, work, work.

Like, I had some scenes there, for sure. But when I was in present-day Rebecca age makeup, and I was with you and Justin, there wasn't, like, the scene at the Met, sure. Sure. But after we got that done, that was, like, the first night, right? And then the second night, we kind of let loose a little bit. Dude. You guys?

What? Plaza? We were at the plaza. Uh-huh. Right. And Justin's like, you know, we got time, right? Let's get a couple of drinks. I was like, I'll get a couple drinks. We got a cocktail. Oh, good. Now, Mandy Moore, what you don't know about Mandy Moore, you see that face she's making? She didn't drink a lot, right? Yeah, but I was like, oh, the opportunity to like have a cocktail with my friends here, with my children. We had so much fun. Oh, we were laughing. We were cracking up. And it was just kind of like us in the hotel, right? Because they had it sort of sequestered or something. And they were setting up like the shot outside. It was like me getting out of the car, walking into the hotel. Like,

They were nothing burger situations, you know? So it wasn't like we had a whole scene and we were like, oh, how are we going to do this? We weren't really like even doing anything. We were hammered, no. And not hammered, but I was a little like, I was feeling good. Yeah. I was feeling good. You know this?

You know Justin and I didn't go to bed that night? What? Oh, because you then rolled right to the airport, right? So no, no. We went and hung out with some friends of Justin's who were in Manhattan and like a married couple that he's known for forever. And we just like, we had like a game night. a thing, stayed up drinking, and then like the sun was coming up, and then we went to go, like, have breakfast, and then from breakfast we went to the hotel, and then we had to, we didn't

go to bed. You and Justin? We were up the whole night. That's so cool. But those are like, you can't write that. Like, it's exactly what you should be doing, you know? It was awesome. It was so fun.

And again, this was like right before the pandemic, like right before the world shut down, like February of 2020. So it felt like, you know, good. you know, that sort of indelible line of like before COVID and after COVID. Like this is before everything sort of changed. Nobody stays up all night now. And I just remember all. Like that just felt so, um, it felt so fun and exciting and like just the energy of being

in New York. It's so palpable. But like I remember landing. I like took a red eye or something or like, yeah, or like a really early morning. Whatever. I landed. Um, and kind of like went. straight to work when we shot at the Met.

Okay. So I just remember getting there and it was like, it was already, I like gotten to makeup and it was like already dark and just walking into, like, they shut down the Metropolitan Museum of Art for our show. It did. It was so cool. You know what else happened that night? I think it's the same night.

The Oscars were happening. That was the slap? No. Okay. I'm getting my time. It's quite all right. It's quite all right. Chrissy sang.

That's right, because we were watching it. Yeah, yeah. We were watching it in, I remember Dan had it on his phone and we were all like, we all sort of stopped and watched her. Oh, my God. Sister sang at the Oscars while we were in New York. And it was like, heart was full. Oh, yeah.

Heart was full. It's just a very special trip this episode. I also think that, like, isn't it interesting, just sort of art imitating life in terms of like where Rebecca was in? Like, it was a, the mood that New York set was right for where Rebecca was and what she wanted to do with life. Yeah. What she wanted from the city.

Yeah. Totally. Carpe Diem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It felt like that. So it started off me. How do you have started with? So it starts out with like a young girl.

We're not sure who she is, but she's staring at something. She's staring at a painting in a museum. Yeah. Right? Yep. And then we kind of jump to Kate and Kevin on a Skype. I was like, oh, this is Bree pandemic. There's no Zoom.

Yeah, you hear the little bern-bang of Skype. Before Skype shit the bed. Yeah. They lost it. How much business did they lose? Had anyone ever heard of Zoom before the pandemic? No. I don't think it exists.

Skyping for years. Yes. And then Skype just dropped the ball. They really did. I don't know. Somebody lost a job, I'll tell you that much. Someone? Yeah, I would say so.

Lots of people. Yeah. A whole board of directors. Not a sponsor. What happens? My notes are a little erratic. I have Jack Rastic part. Jack Rassic Park?

That was a Toby pun. Let's get to the important part of this scene, and it's Toby's joke. Toby's dad joke. That is true. Before, like, Randall wants to share some information with his brother and sister. Toby is in the background. He's got young Jack Damon in his little dinosaur costume. The best sent him, I think.

Yes, yes, yes. Kind of showing him off. Yeah. And Randall says, like, oh, man, it's nice to see him enjoying Jack Rassick Park. You know, it falls a little flat. I liked it. Thank you. I appreciate it.

And then Toby's response. It's a terra jackdall. It was just sitting. It was laying. Yeah. Yeah. This is right there. Sorry.

Yeah. Had to. Anyways, enjoy your Skype. Yeah. Okay. So the Skype. They could have just done FaceTime. But we have a whole episode about that.

But Randall basically makes this, he tells his brother and sister, he's coming to the premiere because he wants to talk to mom in person about something really important. Yeah. And he wants everyone to sort of be aligned and on the same page, right? Well, there's something important is, is it the, it's the clinical trial. It is. There's a clinical trial that is being operated out of St. Louis, Missouri. And this is not even made up because Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri is one of the leading medical sort of institutions in the country.

And he's talking about, like, the length and quality of life that people hit by participating in clinical trials is, is, longer, fuller, and she needs to do this. And I need you guys to help me convince her to do this, right? And they're like, are you sure this is what's more? And he's like, listen, I've done all the research. Like, I've dotted my eyes and crossed my T's. I'm telling you guys, this is the thing. But I know I can't push on myself.

Like, we kind of have to all be on one accord for this thing. That we think this is a good idea. That we think this is a good idea. Yeah. And they agree, right? Yeah. Okay. In theory.

Yeah. Correct. On its face right now. They agree. Right? That's right. So we cut to Rebecca and Kevin arriving in like a black town car to the Plaza Hotel in New York. Where Mandy and Kevin and Justin Moore, little tipsy.

I'm like, oh, look at this. I hope everyone's watching on YouTube. Look at it like a young Helen Mirren up in his feet. Oh, my God. Too funny. Yeah, then she's trying on this purple sequin dress, which I was like, okay, I kind of forgot about this. Right, right. She wears to the premiere. Is that at the hotel? Are we at the, the, the, yeah, we're in, like, the room. You're in the hotel room?

You're in the hotel room? And this is-fitted by a stylist for the premiere. So, like, it's interesting because you're getting the dress, but, like, you haven't officially made the request to walk, said carpet. I haven't yet. I make it while I'm getting dressed. Like, I can't waste this dress. Right. Just going and being his date, but not. assuming that I would take pictures with him on the carpet. But once I see myself all dolled up, once in a lifetime opportunity, right? So she kind of makes that request.

That dress was the first time I was like, what's that old head doing on Mandy Moore? Like, that's not an old lady dress. It's not an old lady dress. And that coverage? I mean, a turtle neck. It definitely had coverage. I mean, it was just funny because any time it was,

I had to do like a fitting for Rebecca present day. It was always like, what turtle? and what long cardigan can we get? We're going to cover it all up. We're going to cover everything up. No decontage on old Rebecca. We don't want to be speckling a decal. They had to for that pool scene a couple episodes back, but that was when I was pool,

when I was in the pool with Kate? She was. But they definitely. Hey, when was my mama on the pole? They probably would have been. But they must have tried on at least one wetsuit. For sure. Come on.

We're going to the pool. Yeah. Rebecca's in her. Like a wet seal. Totally. I can't. So I remember, I remember this one, like, there's the shot of Randall walking to the hotel to meet you guys. Yeah.

Because we had all these extras, like filling it up. And it was one of those like shots where you had everybody going one direction. Oh, you coming down the New York City sidewalk. Like a famous New York City sidewalk shot. It was one of those shots. It was like, oh man, we're doing. And it's freewheeling, right? Those aren't extras.

No, those extras. Every person in that shot is a paid extra. I believe. We had a lot. We had a ton. We had a ton. We had a ton. Guys.

Yeah. Number one show on TV the entire time we were on. I always thought it was just like, I always thought it was just like, we're gonna set. We're gonna set a camera here on the corner. Randall, or just go, just go block and start walking. Well, because it was almost like everybody was going the opposite direction. You know what I'm saying? So it was extras.

It was definitely extras for sure. Okay. All right. It made me feel like Midnight Cowboy. That's what I mean. It thought Barry 1970s. It was like, very 1970s. But it was also just sort of him going against the,

the grain. Yeah. And it was him. Sliming upstream. Yeah. We got that metaphor. Yeah. We got that metaphor. Yeah. Thick. Thick. Thick met. So she is, she goes to the premiere, right? She wants to. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, got it. Got it. There's a conversation. As mom goes to change, right? Randall comes into the hotel room. Looking like a young Helen Mary. Yeah. Randall and Kevin have a little conversation. Randall's got his thing in his hand with all the information so they can talk to mom and

And Kev is like, I don't think we should do it tonight. And he's like, we're talking about me. This is why I'm here. He's like, look, man, she's having a great time. Like, can she just have one day? We can do it tomorrow. And we can do it tomorrow. And he's right.

He is right. This is the right. And Randall says, cool, cool. And Randall says, cool, right? Oh, man, this guy. Man, you guys. Have you guys? And I say this because I've sadly, any opportunities that,

and then even, you've probably had more. So I'm sure you have. when red carpet opportunities began to come Brown's way, it wasn't really a play. First of all, that's Sterling K. Brown. Sterling K. Brown. First of all, Ryan Michelle is like, I'm going.

But if it's not Ryan Michelle, like, have you taken your mom, your parents to anything? I've taken my parents, but not, like, as my date, like they've just come to an event. Yeah. I rarely take pictures on a carpet, like even with Taylor. Yeah. You know, I just kind of just do my own thing.

I got you. Wise. Just in case. No, Taylor's like, just in case. Just in case. Just in case. I can't have that liability. Also, you know.

Learn to dress, Taylor. You know what I mean? If you were like slightly more stylish, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little embarrassing. Have you taken a parent? I've taken my whole, I took my whole family, my mom, my dad, and my brother to the Guardians of the Galaxy 2 premiere.

Cool. Taze of face. Because I knew that was going to be like an easy thing. Like a 10-minute carpet. Yeah. You get to see the movie. We'll go straight to the thing after. But like any, like an award show?

Yeah. No. That people don't understand. Like that's a, that is a, yeah. An athletic endeavor. It is. It is.

It is. Like to, to, from the moment you start getting ready to traveling, to being on the carpet for however long. And also it is like real work. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Like, I took my mom and dad to the Emmys one year. You did? So did I. So did I. And it almost killed them. Same. You know what I mean?

And they were a little confused, like, why we didn't get to hang out because, you know, your seats are here and then you buy seats for them. And so, and I felt bad because I was like, it was, yeah, I'm like, I'm, we're not here to, like, hang out. But they got to meet Henry Winkler. Oh, well, worth it. Kind of worth it. And he's the best person to meet.

He made them feel like. In the wind clears about as kind as they come. Oh. Nobody kinder. Yeah. Nobody kinder. Period. We should have them on the podcast just for no reason.

Just because he's lovely. Because he's freaking awesome. He's incredible. I'm glad you guys. I think about this as I see those Kevin and his mom together. I was like, oh, and even like I remember watching it as Randall, because I'm sort of behind the cameras as you guys. And like, you're so, like, beaming. It's like.

So proud. So proud. And like, what a cool moment. Like, because it is, like, the lights and they call your name. And you're like, especially like if, like, somebody, if you have a publicist, who's a good publicist, and I'd be like, what's your mom's name? And so, like, and you say, like, Rebecca Pierce. And so if somebody, you go, Rebecca, over here.

Rebecca, could you imagine how your parents would go fucking apes? Yeah. There was one little thing that I clock that I forgot where you see me, like, talking to an interview where I'm like, my husband and I watch you on TV every day. And I'm like, oh, you dork. You dork. You dork. But for sure, it's like, of course you and Miguel are watching like entertainment tonight or

Access Hollywood or something. Yes. But yeah, that shot of you sort of like slinking along watching it all happens is interesting. It feels like, I don't know. It's like what is going on in? Tell me what you're thinking. Because like- What's going on in your head?

Like there's lots. He's discounting it. He's judging it. Yeah. There's judgment. There's appreciation. for her having a good time. Yes, yes.

There's also, my objective, Randall never lets go of an objective. Right. Even when he says he's let go of an objective. Right. He's like, I still, I still have this feeling that like, how long will this good time last? Right. You know what I mean?

I think that's also part of like what's going on for him. Yeah. Yeah. And there is, and as we find with the next few episodes, like there is a, for three children, who lost their father when they were young, there's a coping mechanism, defense mechanism that can show up in abandonment in the form of self-centered thinking or narcissism that shows up in the big three

in their own different ways, like their single-mindedness about their objectives and their perspective. And as we see in the next few episodes, starts to become a problem. Yeah, real problem. Yeah. We'll be right back with more. That was us.

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She gets to the after party with Kevin and Randall, and they're talking to Kevin's agent. And the agent asks, I think Kevin goes to talk to his co-star, and the agent sort of tries to make small talk. And like, so where are you staying, Rebecca? Oh, God, like, can't. Remember the name of the most famous hotel in New York City. Yeah.

What is the? Yeah, she just can't find it. It was like right there. She just was there. And Randall's wife. And Randall clocks that. And she, I think he offers the plaza. And she's like, oh, the plaza, the agent.

Like, anyway, and she, like, takes off. And you can see Rebecca is, like, kind of a little rattled and, like, beating herself up about it. Yeah. And I have such good moments and everything and then something happens. Yeah. And Randall just can't help himself. He sees that opportunity. and he seizes on it and decides to.

I noticed that you just forgot some shit. Yeah. Speaking of. Speaking of forgetting stuff. Yeah. There's this clinical trial in St. Louis. And he kind of goes into his whole pitch, right? Yep.

And we notice Kevin looking across the bar. Man, looking like. At Randall deep in conversation explaining something to his mom and knows immediately. He knows. He knows his brother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah. So then he comes back over. How does this play itself? Yeah, couldn't help yourself. Couldn't help yourself, could you? And he said, look, man, I don't, right, I need notes. This is a lot. Well, this is when they started getting into the arguments about, you know, about who's paying for what.

Yeah. And Randall's just resentful because he's the one who's taken care of mom for years. and Kevin is resentful that Randall doesn't think he knows what's best for mom or doesn't want what's best for her. And well, since we're stating facts, this whole acting career that I have, the one that you've never really taken seriously, this is what's paying for mom to get the best professional care. This.

That's an exact, that's a really good impersonation for everybody. That was great. This. So unless you want to pay for it with your city councilman salary. Yeah. Yeah. Like, he, he, he hit below, he hit me in the, he hit me low, I think. Yeah.

Hit me a little low. Maybe just above the belt. Maybe just the- still pretty low, but like right above the belt. It's, it. Right above the belt buckle. Yeah. He didn't want to hurt his hand.

No. Because I'll say this without, and we'll save it for, for the end of the show. But like, there's, there's an argument that comes that, like, in 418. Holy. Holy. I rewatch that there. Shit, guys. I.

Yeah. wasn't ready. Yeah. Because you guys have another argument, don't you? I do. On the same lawn. Oh, that's why. That's why I remember it.

It feels like it's on the same lawn. You probably. It's your house. I think it's the same lawn. Something about your house. Yeah. Energetically, people are like, let's go. And it's Toby against the big three.

Oh, yeah. Oh, boy. That's coming like a season from now. That's another thing. Can't wait. Okay. So, um, So mom comes back and she wants to go to the Met, right?

I just wrote the Met, exclamation point. Well, what happens is we come back from that argument. Randall and Kev get a text from Brecht that she left the premiere. Yeah. We come out after we finish arguing with each other and we're like, where is Mom? I don't know. So I don't know whose idea it was to go to the Met. more than likely it's mine

because I do remember shit like that, right? Randall? Yeah, yeah, that's not Kevin. Because the next thing you see is that we're running through the mat looking. And we shot a lot of us just looking through the mat and everything

and then us running up the stairs over and over again. And I remember too because I remember somebody on what was formerly known as Twitter saying like, look, Randall, he can't even help himself. He's got to beat him up the stairs.

He's got to do it. It was like, somebody like clock something like that. I was like, it's not that deep. I just want to find my mom. But when we finally get to you, right, and you're looking at this painting. And I should say, like, we'll converge this over the timelines, right? Because there's two other trips to New York. There's a trip to New York when Jack is alive, and we'll talk about that.

And then there's a trip to New York that we make to go see Kevin in a showcase. And each time there's this intention of getting to the Met, right? And for some reason or another, it never fully realizes. So this is the first time as an adult that she makes it. And we find out that the little girl was her. Was her. Which is why she's always trying to get back to see something. Yeah.

And she tells a story of going to, she used to go on these trips to New York with her parents all the time. And it was like she explains to Jack, you know, and that sort of timeline as well. Like there was something magical about her dad. being in New York, it was like this different version of him. And he made the whole, he sort of illuminated the city and just made it so exciting. And they seemed to have spent like a fair amount of time where she knew her way around.

But like it always ended or at some point along the way they were able to make it to the Met. And she remembers very viscerally being a little girl and watching this like elegant woman staring at this John Singer Sargent painting Madame X. and she just was transfixed by this painting, this woman, and Rebecca watching this woman transfixed. She was like, we walked around the museum, and hours later I came back, and this woman was still staring at this painting.

And I've always wondered, like, who was this woman? What did she have in her life that allowed her, like, this time to just ponder this painting? What does she see in this painting? Yeah, what does she see that I'm not seeing? I've got to look at this painting. Yeah, yeah, because. it just was so, it seemed so like magical.

Do you guys have a place like that growing up? We had a cabin in Tahoe that my parents built in the late 80s. Really? And we used to go up there. And it was like the place where there was no homework, there was no arguing, there was no stress. It was all different. It was all magical.

It was all snow. It was all little restaurants or little antique shop or whatever. whatever the thing was. And it was always nice. Yes, I do have a place like that. Where? We, like, not that we built or anything, but we had a timeshare.

Did your parents ever go to a place where they try to offer you to the timeshares and you get this whole informational? All right, so we ended up doing one in the Lake of Ozarks and this place is called Lodge of the Four Seasons. And it's like, right around the corner is like the Netflix show Ozarks. But in this spot, it's just like pristine,

You're like over the lake and we would go and we would play like Uno and Monopoly. And my dad would, they had a bowling alley that you could go to in a big swim pool. And a swimming pool at the lodge had an indoor, outdoor thing. So like you could go under this wall and then you're out there. But it's like frost all coming off the heated pool. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Yeah. I love that.

Yours was Disney World? Mine was Disney World. No, we went to the beach quite often, like about 45. We lived like 40, 45 minutes away from like Daytona, New Smyrna. And we would have like a timeshare-esque situation there. Yeah, same. It's like time stops. Yeah.

You swim all day. You eat hot dogs on the beach. Right. You do all the things you don't. Never. Never. Yeah. We would get, we would go to Sam's Club and buy all of the little tiny boxes of cereal.

Like fruit loops and frosted mini-weets, like things that we would never, my mom would never let us have at the house like normally. Sure. Yeah, there was something. Yeah, that's good times. Yeah. That's good times. So Rebecca just talks about this story, and she realizes all of the, like, that she has lived a life of saying, well, next time, next time I'm going to do this, next time I'm going to do that.

And that she's running out of time to do those things, right? And she wants to spend as much time as she can with her family. Yeah. And she wants to try new things. She wants to make up for all of the next times. And therefore, she's had a moment to digest Randall's suggestion of this clinical trial, but she does not want to do that. So thank you, but I've made up my mind. I'm going to do what I need to do with the time that I have left, and that is like be with my family.

I want to go back to Los Angeles. I want to be with my grandson. I, yes. So, and right in that moment, she kind of just ends with like, and right now, I'm. just want to be with you guys and I want to stare at this painting. I just like I want to be present. I want to be grounded and locked into exactly where we are because who knows what the future has in store. There's so much unknown road ahead of them and ahead of her that I don't know. I think this is like again a turning point for me and Rebecca's journey of like handling this

diagnosis, handling how I would imagine, like, such a terrifying diagnosis and situation, I would be so scared. And she, even though she's scared, she sort of like chooses to handle it with such grace and such presence. And there's like such a piece about where she is that I just, I always clocked how admirable it was that that was her response to all of this. And I think this is the, you know, we're starting to get into that territory with her. That I, yeah, I just always really, I admired the writers for, we spoke to Johnny and Kevin Falls last episode or a couple episodes ago. And they were talking about they did so much research on dementia and Alzheimer's, like in order to then pare it back to what really made sense in telling this story. And I love that like we're really starting.

to see that come to light, right? With different family members having very differing ideas of how care should be handled and what a caregiver should do and shouldn't do. And I think we're like, we're tiptoeing into that. And just like how seen, I think people felt with this sort of representation in a big mainstream television show like ours.

Yeah. Yeah. I was watching these last three episodes of the season or whatnot. I was just telling Sally, I was like, this is a damn good show. like for real for real like outside of like being in it or whatever i was just like man they should make shows like this you can not but they shouldn't they shouldn't anymore it's been done don't try like this is this is us this is it this is it this is it

like you want to make another family drama why it's been done what would you try like before us you know brothers and sisters done that done that kind of show that it's done it's been done. And this is the best version of it. I mean, not wrong. Not wrong. What else are you going to do? I know. Maybe I use something.

Really? There we go. There is, the, the coda on the end of this timeline is the brothers are arguing and he says, Mom, this is what she wants, man.

Cab says cap. And Randall sort of says, like, she doesn't know what she wants. Which is a very sort of like hearty sort of thing. But actually, have you guys ever had this exercise, played this in your head in terms of, like, characters and whatnot? The people who are the decision makers have like a harder decision to make than the people who aren't. Like the people who aren't is like, why don't you just allow something to happen, right? Like, why don't you just let things be in a certain way? And then the person who considers himself to be the decision makers, like, no, but you actually have to make a choice.

And it's like if you look at a leader, right, it's very easy to sort of like armchair quarterback, like what the decision is that could have been made. Because I find myself doing it all the time. But then have you ever been placed in a position of leadership? And you're like, oh, I actually have to make a decision. Right? Yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like it's very like small thing.

Yeah. but it's like, oh, he's that dude that's like, I have to make decisions for the family in his mind, right? Because if we just let things happen willy-nilly, because he says this to Kev before, you're here right now. Right. You could wind up, you were about to go do a movie or Patty Jenkins was that, who the agent was going to go meet or whatnot.

You could be off somewhere in a heartbeat, right? And then I'm left to deal with this thing in my jigger. And so, like, so much, I was saying this. to you, Chris, earlier, like, so much of, like, Randall's motivations for things are governed by fear. And we'll hear a little bit more about it, I think, in the next episode. But aren't all of ours? Like, are so much of what... Either love or fear. Yeah. There's really no other options. That's it. Yeah. No, you're right. And the hard part about Randall's situation is that it is a little self-imposed. He has decided that he's the decider.

Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? And I am that person in my own life. Rachel's that person in our marriage sometimes where it's like, somebody has to take care of it. And you started taking care of something. Let's say when we go on vacation. Rachel packs the kids when we go on vacation.

Because someone has to. That's not a two-person job. And she started doing it, and now she does it. Yeah. sometimes she can be resentful about the fact that she is the person that always packs the kids. Yeah. But you're like, but that's how we set it up. That's how it goes.

Yeah. Do you want me to? Because I can. Yeah. I can figure it out. Totally. I'm a grown man who understands what people wear on. I like clothes.

Yeah, you got good expression, taste. Come on. But, and I do my best to express appreciation for it. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. even though she, even though that is her thing. Sure. But like this is the, this is the, the, the underbelly of resentment, you know, that can exist

in a family structure where someone has, like, self-appointed them to make decisions. Yep. And other people have been like, okay. Yeah, you seem, and you seem to like being in that position. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that we're not involved in certain decisions. Sure. And if you need help.

Or that we can help or that we can do all these things. And so this is where. Kendall feels this sense of obligation. Again, we alluded to it before, like, this is codependency, right? If not me, then who? Like, if I don't do this, then it won't get done. And the world will fall apart. The world falls apart. And at the core of it, at the core of it is generally a, like a root fear. Like in, that you can do exercises. Like, if I have any fear in my life, I can, I can, I can, Chris Sullivan can essentially, uh, follow that fear. back to the fear of dying alone. Interesting. Like, oh, God, I don't have a job right now. And if I don't have a job, then I don't have any money. If I don't have any money, then I can't pay the bills.

And if I can't pay the bills, then my wife's gonna leave me and she's gonna take the kids. And if they, then I'm gonna move into an apartment. I'll probably have to live in an apartment by myself in a cheap part of town. And then I'll never find love. I'll never find love again because, and then that confidence will, and I'll die alone.

You know what I mean? And I can do that with my fear of spiders. you know, my fear. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so this is like the same type of spiral that somebody who lives with anxiety. Sure.

A.k.a. Randall can spin out about. Yeah. Where it's like, no, no, no, I need to take control. Because if I don't, everything falls apart. Yeah. And then mom dies alone. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. It kind of just. And it's, I love these episodes where the theme travels through the timelines. Like it's the same theme when the kids are, how old are they? 12. And it's the same theme when they're 18, 19. And it's the same theme when they're adults where it's like, you know, Jack has heard how your father behaves in New York and who that man is.

And so now he thinks he has to be that man for his family. For his family, and accidentally, you know, which no man wants to do, accidentally takes his family to Queens. Unless your prince, Ikeem from coming to America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and the way this story sort of ends is that, you know, Randall's just not giving up on this clinical trial. Yeah. Mom doesn't know what she wants. And he kind of says, like, do you ever wonder, like, what is it?

Exactly. Do you ever wonder what life would have been like if dad hadn't died? Yeah. Yeah. Because he spent 20 years wondering if he could have saved dad and now he has the opportunity to save mom. Like no one's talking him out of this. Right. Right. He's going to do absolutely everything that is possibly on the table to take care of his mom. And he kind of poses that question to Kevin. Like, don't you ever wonder like what could have happened if dad hadn't died? Like what life would have been like? And Kevin's like, no. No. No. And Randall says he thinks about it every day.

Yeah. Every day. Every single day. Whoa. Yeah. That is. Talk about a root fear. Yeah.

I mean, it's part of the anxiety spiral of catastrophizing. Yeah. And I just wrote. Fantasizing. They are so objectively different. Like they're just two sides of a coin. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's kind of where we leave that. That's where that one. It kind of ends with like, So how'd you guys shoot this? We've reshot it. You did reshoot? Yeah, we did reshoot it.

Okay, because I was wondering if he had the foresight to have shot this all before. No. Okay. You're like, no, we took our ass back out there in the middle of the night. No, no, no, back to that house. I think they, like, CG the fire and stuff in, but we reshot it with Milo coming out and jumping off the roof and hugging us. Yeah, because Niles was like, hey, man, you go back in there.

I can't remember what he said. So help me God. I'm going to drag you out. drag you out my son. And then my was like, all right, man, let me get out the roof. Yeah. Like, all right. That's how that ends, right?

It's little inglorious bastards. Yeah. Which is got to have been a real exciting moment for our audience. Yeah. Like, wish fulfillment. It could have been. Are we going to see this? And for how long are we going to, is the show going to always be this now?

Yeah. You know what I mean? I do. As I was watching, I was like, oh, right, right, right, right, this is coming up. But as an audience who doesn't know. Yeah. It's like, how that plays out. Will the show now, because the show has done.

We're preceding the multiverse and the Marvel universe. Yeah, exactly. Are the last two seasons of the show going to be? That's true. If Jack hadn't died. I wonder, I can't remember if there was any. That's how we pitch to Dan to like bring the show back, like to reboot it. Just bring it back with like, if Jack hadn't died.

Right. Yeah. What other show? would have happened. Yeah. Because you know something would have happened. Something's going to happen. It's drama.

Yeah. Let's do the youngest version. Sure. What is it? Every episode, Jackets killed a different way. Every season? Dark. So you guys are going to New York as the young family just because you haven't done it before?

We're on our way to a debate tournament for Randall. Of course. It's like upstate and we're going to stop for like one day in New York City and like do the city. And we've never done it as a family. And I think Rebecca coming into this experience. having gone a lot when she was a kid, is excited to show her family to say. How far is Pittsburgh from New York?

Philadelphia is like 90 minutes. How far is Pittsburgh from New York City? 369 miles. Not that bad. So that's a five-hour drive. Yeah. Not long for these guys. It's a seven-hour drive in that wagon.

That's what I have to say. Depending on who's driving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not with Jack driving. So there go, New York, mom and dad. Oh, you can see, and she's a little, And she's going on about your dad as Jack is, like, loading up the car and the visible annoyance. From Milo.

Yeah. Yeah. That shit was real. Yeah. He's like, no man is more important to be. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about your dad.

All you want. He was so. Oh, yeah. You don't know how to get to my stage. Get in a car. Yeah. Shut up, woman. Get in the car.

He loves. like those sugary peanuts. Let me tell you. By the way, hot take, those sugary peanuts are garbage. Oh, yeah. Have you had any of those? Yes.

They always smell so good. And they taste like, and I keep, I keep giving them, I keep giving them a shot. Like, it's like, it's... Are we talking about street nuts in New York? Yeah, we're talking about street nuts. Talk about them street nuts. I try to shy, stay away.

Listen, they smell so good, right? The warm sugar in the air. And I'm like, well, they have to taste good. And they taste. Like garbage. Like, but I keep coming back. Like once every couple of years, I'm like maybe they've made innovations in the street nut.

In the street nut game. Yeah. But they have not. No, no, no, no. They have not. There is, everybody wants to do something different. I think Randall wants to go to MoMA. No, he wants to go to the natural history museum.

He wants to go to Natural History Museum. Like, Kev wants to do everything from like, uh, Home Alone 2. He wants to go to, you know, Toy Store. What did Kate want to do? Go to a fancy hotel and have tea like Eloise. That's right. That's right. Which Eloise took place in the Plaza Hotel, right?

Look at that. They'd be writing. Yeah. And so, yeah, he gets to go to FAA Schwartz because Jack is like, you can pick one thing from. And he was like, well, then that case, I want to meet Donald Trump. If I have to pick one thing. I have a feeling. From Home Alone, too.

Oh, yeah. It's that. Yeah. Jack doesn't know what he wants. Rebecca knows she wants to go to the Met. There's a painting she wants to see and Jack's like, I'm, I haven't decided yet. I'm still thinking about it. And you're like, okay. Because he doesn't know. Yeah, he doesn't know. He's never been. He's never been. No. He's a real blue collar fella. He's not a sophisticated city mouse. What do you mean a city? Yeah. I don't even know what there is to do Oh gosh

They get there I figure out when they get there There's a game plan of course that Jack has He's got it all They're on the subway right He's like all right We're going in the museum We're going to go to the toy store

Then we'll go to tea And then we're going to go to mom's museum Like boom boom boom He's got it all plotted out right So they're on the subway I love this shit Oh me too How many times

I mean I've done it I've ended up in Queens Well that Jack is just so bullish about where he's looking at the subway map. And you could tell Rebecca's just sort of sitting back. And she goes to get off at a stop. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. We got to stay on for like two more stops.

We're all good. She's like, oh, no, I think we got to get off and transfer. And he's like, I got it. This was the one move where I think, I think Rebecca in real life would have put a foot down here. Really? I think Rebecca. Yes. The Rebecca who sits Jack down on the couch and it's like, you need to quit drinking.

Sure, sure, sure. It's the Rebecca who goes, Jack, trust me, get off the train. Because the way you deliver. She eventually does get to it. She does. But after the train's already moving, she's like, I guess we're going to Queens. Yeah. It was, it was so much fun to watch.

It was saucy. It was so much fun to watch, you guys. Why was it so much fun for me to watch? Why? Because Jack was so sure. Sure. He knew the answer. Yes. And he, and guess what? He was wrong. He was wrong. Because nobody knows the New York subway system. Sure. I mean, Rebecca knew enough to know. Rebecca knew enough. She's like, oh, weekends. Which is probably when she went with her family a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they end up in Queens. They're walking around Queens. Everyone's tired. They're not getting to do their fun activities that they want to do. And again, Jack is so sure he knows. knows how to get back to the subway. Yep. And Rebecca finally is like, can I talk to you for a second? Yeah. Can I pull your side here, sir? And she's just like, you keep walking us further into Queens.

The subway is that way. I forget what she says. Like the waters that way. The East River, yeah, or whatever it is. She's like, it's this way. Like, please trust me. It's not like, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I know where to go.

And if we want to like, we have a certain amount of time to do all this stuff. We have to make up some time. and I'm a woman. Yeah. But in this case. But I do have a brain. Yes.

And he does. Quick thing to clock, Kev's sort of like, Dad'll figure it out. Do you guys, you remember this? Yeah. Because they're like, what's going on with them?

They're like, I don't know. Dad will fix it. Right? I just wonder, like, what did you guys make of that? Like, in terms of... I mean, Kevin, Kevin, it's the exact what you were talking about.

Randall, we need to have a plan. Yeah. We need to have an order of things. We need to have a schedule. And Kevin is like, yeah, we'll see what happens. Sure. And now I am lost in New York. And dad fixes things.

Yeah. Even if mom and dad are like not seeing eye to eye on something, dad does something to win mom back over. He saves the day. He's the hero. So like, I think that's just his MO. No, I just remember because there's an echo of I fix things in an episode to think next week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. More that was us after this short break. I feel like every family trip has Big Three energy. There's always a Kevin who overpacks, a Kate who wants the coziest room, and a Randall with the color-coded itinerary. Oh, my God, I feel so seen Airbnb. Listen, I actually am that guy that has like a very particular way that he likes things to be packed.

And I also hate overpacking. And I feel like oftentimes we don't do it efficiently enough. Randall, team efficiency. That's all I got to say. Absolutely. And while you're off during your Big Three style trip, your home is sitting empty. And that's when it could make sense to host your home on Airbnb. And now hosting is easier than ever with Airbnb's co-host network.

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I'm saying we have this brand new guest house that 90% of the time sits unused. Yeah. And the thing that has held me back from like really renting it out is like, I don't want to. Add one more thing to your place. Manage all of the comings and goings. Well, I don't have to. Here we go. And when families travel to your city, a lot of them are looking for the same things we talk about as parents.

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So he kind of, he's just Jack kind of admits to the fact that he's embarrassed. He's not as cosmopolitan as Rebecca's dad. He doesn't know his way around New York City. And she's like, I'm not trying to have that exact trip with our family. And there's bad things about my dad. You say like, not everything about my dad was perfect. Yeah.

Right. In fact, most things weren't. Like, this is one shiny example of him doing something right that, like, I loved. It's a sweet memory. But, like, that's it. That's not, I'm not holding him up on some pedestal. You don't have to try to be like that. Also, can we talk about the magic of, like, the point of Rebecca's dad making it magical

because he knew where to do all of those things? That's not the best steak frets in the city. No. It's the best because her dad said it was. Yeah. This is not the best ice cream shop. Sure. It's the best because your dad confidently said,

You want to have the best ice cream you've ever had. Exactly. And as a kid, that's how you make the magic. Yeah. Which is how Jack goes through life making magic. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's a really good point. That's a good point to me as a parent. Like, thanks. So, well, I was going to move to that. Well, I noticed it because I have family members who, who like, what's the word where you overstate things? Hyperbolic.

Yeah, they hyperbabilized things. Yeah. And I find myself, like, instantly being kind of annoyed because I know, like, I'm like, this is not that good. But then I realized like, oh, but it does make it feel more special that you think it is. Yeah. Right, right. So just do that. Yeah.

Instead of judging it. Right. Just go for it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and at the end of the day, they all get to do their activities, right? Things get truncated a little bit, right? A little bit, but they go to the museum.

They go to the toy store. We don't show the toy store. We don't show the toy store. But in theory, in my mind, it was like everybody got to do everything. Yeah. They ended up having tea. And while they're finishing having tea at this hotel, Jack's sort of like, you're not going to make the museum. Like, do you want to leave and try to go?

And she's like, do you mind? He's like, yeah, I'll finish up here with them. We'll meet you back at the hotel. And she's relieved and excited. So she's like leaves and she confidently, you see her running up the stairs of the Met. And as she gets to the door, the usher there is like, sorry, it's closed. Sorry, we're close. And she's like, oh, okay.

And she goes back to the hotel. Eat some street nuts. She goes back. Just her sad with a bag of sand. She doesn't. She doesn't eat the street nuts yet because she gets back to the hotel. And she kind of like tells everyone, you know, I didn't. The museum was closed.

And Jack feels bad. Yeah. And she's like, no, it's okay. Like we got to have a great trip. We'd a great day. Everybody else got to do everything they wanted. No harm, no foul. And Jack's like, okay, I decided what I want to do for my special New York activity, right?

Yeah. They end up on a carriage ride going through Central Park, eating the street nuts. There you go. Yeah, getting them hot nuts. Getting them hot nuts. Come on. Hot sugary nuts. You know, it's only kind of.

Our part of this scene was actually shot in New York. Okay. In Central Park. Yeah. Milo and I were all bundled up. I don't think the kids came. I'm like, I'm having trouble remembering. I mean, I've had three children.

We went through a global pandemic. A lot has happened. Do you remember them reacting to the sweet lip luck that, that was enjoyed by Jack and Rebecca? Or was that something that was done later? That was done, I think, both times. Because I will tell you, nothing brings me greater joy

than getting that ew from my kids. Because at least I know I'm doing something right. Yeah. They should be a little, but like they get a chance to witness keep affection. Yeah. And they're like, oh my God. We're not there yet.

In fact, oftentimes Gus goes, hey, mom, will you hug dad? Or mom, will you kiss dad? And we do, and, you know, We're always like, of course, we're so happy to. Yeah. And he gets like a kick out of that. He thinks it's cute.

That's sweet. Yeah. So we're not at the EU part of seeing us have affection with each other. Yeah. You're not either. No. No, no, no, no. It's fun.

It's fun. It'll be embarrassed by like everything at a certain point. Yeah, yeah. Sure. But it's the best. And basically this portion ends with Rebecca being like, you know what? Next time, we'll go to the Met first. Yeah.

Yeah. Next time. There you go. Next time, next time, next time, next time. Next time? Next time. Next time. So the next time in New York is this going to Kev's showcase.

Yeah. And it's interesting. Like there's this bickering that you see between Kev and Randall and every timeline. Yeah. Right? There's always friction. Always friction. When they go to the showcase, one of the first things I wrote down, I was like, hey, he's pretty good.

Yeah. Like, I was like, he's pretty good. And so he's talking to everybody. He's getting validation from folks, Randall. Showcases, man. So awkward. decided not to come on this trip. Just why she's not there.

Let's tie it out real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's still recovering from the breakup with Mark. She doesn't want to leave. She wants to stay home with her friend Molly. Yeah. Mom's a little like, okay, I'm not going to push. Like if that's what you need to do with your grieving, healing process.

Yes. Did Hannah have a conflict or something? Yeah, she could make it. But Randall and Beth are both going to be like road tripping with Rebecca to New York to see this showcase for Kevin. Sorry. Go ahead. The showcase is good. Kev does a great job.

Mom gives him validation. So he looks to Randall, like, Randall, what you think? He's like, that's cool. Like, Randall's giving him. Nothing. Yeah. Nothing. Less than nothing.

For one second, when somebody comes to see your show, we are hyper attuned to the feedback that we get enough of it. And you also know, like, there are things that, like, people have said, like, when somebody comes to see a show, And like, man, you were on that stage tonight. Yeah. Or the light. Yeah, yeah.

The lighting was so. You know what I'm saying? Wow. You're like, wow, you really. The best one I've ever heard. Give it to me. Yeah. Judith Light gave it to me.

She goes, you say this. You go, if you could have been sitting where I was sitting so that you could have seen what you were doing up there. Oh, my gosh. It's so good. So I say that. Because round and round, you go, they're like, Oh, wow, thank you.

Really good. Yeah. You're not saying anything. But here's the thing. If you're going to go see someone do a live performance, the only thing. Tell them, Chris. The only thing you say is that was incredible. Fantastic.

Congratulations. Otherwise, go home. Go home. Don't say ish to me after the show if you ain't got nothing really kind to say. Because I will remember that forever. And make it believable. You know what I'm saying? Like, because I've heard people

This is one that I've never actually heard But a friend of mine says like, you come up to somebody You go like, man, you were unbelievable. But meaning it, I couldn't believe. I didn't believe you. I did not believe that. I cannot believe what I just said. I made this mistake.

I went to see the Abbott brothers in Oregon, in Portland. Yeah. And went back afterwards to talk to them. got so wrapped up and like, hey, how you been? Good to see you. That I never mentioned the show. Oh. And texted him like, texted him like weeks later.

I'm like, just realized, hey, the show was incredible. I had an incredible time. I really did. But we just got, we went straight into like catching up. Sure, sure, sure. And I also thought like, these guys too have had big tours. They get thousands of people. They hear this all the time.

They don't need. to hear it from me. Yeah. What does my opinion matter? I think that is often how people feel and let us dispel that rumor. Let us deserve hands down. It is always nice to get a compliment. Yes.

Yep, yeah. Getting a compliment means the world. Especially post vulnerability. Post vulnerability from your brother. Yes. Yeah. It was so random though. Like, come on, man, give him something.

He gave him nothing, right? So then we knew what he was doing. Probably did. I think, I think there, I think, like, Randall tries to, in those instances, get back at Kev in the only way that he has power to. Because I think Kev has most of the power in youth. Cutting him down to size. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think, I think so. He's just like, I'm just not going to, you know, whatever. You're not going to get it from me. It's also, I also think that, like, there's a part of Randall that's like, so you left home to sit in a black box and say words to an audience. Like, where will this lead to? Yeah. What will it ultimately be? Like, yeah.

All right, if this is what you want to do, cool. Yeah. Because I think I've received that to a certain extent. Yeah. From the opposite side, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like, okay, cool. If that's what you want to do.

Like, you have a mother and a home and other things that take care of, but go say words in the dark. And Kevin is so intent on, like, introducing his teacher, Kirby. What's his teacher's name? Kirby. Kirby. Yeah. Played by Dave. Annabel.

Yeah. Hey. We love Dave. Brothers and sisters. Killed that shit. Yeah. Dave was great. I had a small arc on a show, a canceled show called Red Band Society.

I did like five episodes of, this was like 2014. Okay. Anyway, I met Dave then. We worked together. And he was so lovely. So it was like a nice little reunion. And obviously he's very close with Ken because of brothers and sisters. So it was like a little fun reunion to be back with him.

I love that guy. He's the best, the nicest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you guys wind up going to grab a bite to eat? We do. Everybody's hanging. It's still a little frosted between the brothers. And even Beth's like, you see Beth clocking and they're like, what's going on? Like, get over yourself. Like, what's the deal? You know what I'm saying? And then they call over, Kev calls over Kirby.

His teacher, yeah. Such a perfect name for an acting teacher. It's good. And the guy is just- Calling him by his first name too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. like, hey Kirby. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, yeah, Kevin mentioned this. Not the full turtleneck, but like a half turtle neck. Yeah. Mockneck, for sure. And it seems like, and Randall's like very sort of like, what's the, what's going on? Why is this guy spending time at our table? You know what I'm saying? But you guys are hitting it off.

There's easy free flowing dialogue amongst all involved. He ultimately winds up going to say hi to somebody else. Or do you leave? Well, who happens? Because it leaves space for this. to have a conversation about, are you trying to set mom up? Yeah, she gets uncomfortable because Kevin is very clearly like gunning for them to get together. Yeah.

He's like, oh, mom, you know this, blah, blah, blah. And oh, he was in a band and my mom's a singer. And it just like became very apparent that Kev was trying to set them up. Yeah, Kevin's been talking about his, or the man, that's later, his very attractive mother coming. Something like that. Yeah, he mentions that on the walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin starts this off by like ordering for everybody at the tables.

And then Randall's like... We'll take a cheese pizza. Such like a 19... A pepperoni pizza. Yeah. Chicken wings and a mozzarella sticks. I'm like, where are they TGI Fridays? What is this?

And Randall's like, I don't think this mom was going to eat. And she's like, no. That's fine. That's cool. Let's do it. When you're in New York, it also looked like a really nice restaurant. I was like, where are they? ordering what what what is this place it felt like a pub like a day of busters yeah yeah yeah it was

elevated pizza chris yeah yeah yeah elevated mozzarella sticks elevated mozzarella you you like the the was it just sort of like the discomfort of the moment yeah yeah you're like i forget what the like the final straw was but it was just sort of like yeah you know guys i i'm gonna go yeah i'm gonna go to the met i'm gonna walk around i will she leaves her credit card yeah which i was like that was Nice. Still got that temp job that Randall helped you get for something. Right. And she leaves, right?

She leaves. Yeah. He leaves to go talk to another table, whatever. He doesn't leave with her. But he does come outside. We go outside. We find that Rebecca's been trying to hail a cab for like 20 minutes. And we know this too, right?

Yeah. Don't hail the cab from the middle of the block. No, no, no, no. He's like, you'll have much better luck. You got to go down to the quarter. To be honest, Rebecca should have known that for everything she knows about New York City. You know what I'll tell you guys some facts. And this is like not even to throw the most.

who don't, it's just real. I will always have my wife or girlfriend held a cab for me in New York City. I've had many, many cabs. Slow down, go by. Just saying that for the audience, shit is real. Yeah. Continue.

So she and he's like, I'll walk down to the corner with you to try to find a cab. And they start talking and they both kind of like acknowledge like, was that, was it just me? was like Kevin trying to set us up. And Kirby's like, yeah, he did mention his, like, very attractive, like, mother who's a widow, blah, blah, blah. Flex on him. Yeah.

Widower. And he talks about his divorce and how his daughters reacted when, like, he tried to start dating again, like, not too happy about it or what have you. So similar boats, not the same boat, but similar boats. But she says, you know, I had love and now I have my kids and maybe that's enough. I think that's her line of thinking at this point. I had this great love who could ever think of possibly wanting more. Not in a woe is me sort of way. I feel like this is her grief journey.

This is where she is a year and change post Jack's passing. But she's fine with it, right? But they just have this very sweet report with each other. We flash back to Kevin and Randall arguing about mom at the table at the restaurant that she just left and what mom needs and now the dad dies, you know, she deserves to have fun and, you know, because Randall clock too, like, why were you trying to set mom up with this, like, teacher of yours? Like, that's so inappropriate. And Kevin's like, relax, she needs to have fun. She deserves to have fun. Like, dad's not coming back

kind of thing. Yeah. They keep walking. They decide, like, she's like, do you want, I'm going to the Met. Like, do you want to come with me? Like, let's not wait for a cab. Let's just, He says, he says, like, you know, but let's not take a cat. Let's walk. Let's walk. And she's like, great. She loves it. So they're walking through Central Park.

They're still having this, like, very easy conversation. And then... Let's go through this dark park at night. Yeah. That's not the part. This is my favorite. Go ahead, man. Well, he decides...

They see a carriage. And Rebecca asks, right? Like, oh, my gosh. Have you ever taken a carriage ride? And this guy. My man, shut. Which, by the way, I don't disagree. You don't?

No. You think it's touristy and just sort of... It's abusive to the horses. Like, it's awful. Those horses are totally mistreated. Absolutely 100%, like shouldn't exist. Yeah, there's like a big push for... I don't even think it's like much of a thing anymore.

Anyway. Okay. But he kind of takes that stance of like, oh, like it's so touristy. The horses, like they're not nice to the horses. It's like only stupid idiots want to take about carriage ride. He didn't try to read the room before offering his strong opinion. Very strong opinion. And I think this sort of changes Rebecca's opinion about where the night might be heading.

Great. Anyways, my feet hurt. Can we get to the middle? Yeah, I don't feel great. I think actually I'm going to take a rain check on the museum. It was really nice to meet you, but. No, I think I just caught a case of the world. mind virus.

Yeah, totally. I gotta get out of here. I gotta get out of here. She, yeah, she just high-tailed it out of there and just, that was it. And that was the end of Kirby. That was the end.

See, he had a chance. Not even recurring. Curb had a chance, yeah, and we know at this point now that, like, I mean, we don't know till the end of the episode why she might have had that reaction, but we know, because we just explained it that she had this beautiful

memory with her family there and with Jack, and it was a really sweet romantic gesture. Yeah. He could have been the new Mr. Pearson. And she realizes she's not ready. It's a really good episode. It is. And it sets up these final two episodes, the gangbusters.

These next two episodes are a lot to unpack. A lot. Yeah. So how about we take a quick break? And when we come back, our favorite segment, our fan segment, we're going to talk to a listener. Let's do it. More of that was us coming up. Today's fan segment is a really special.

special one. As This Is Us explored Rebecca's Alzheimer's journey, it deeply resonated with so many viewers, including one who connected to it in a really beautiful and personal way. A lovely listener by the name of Dawn watched This Is Us with her mom when the show began, and their weekly calls about each episode became a treasured ritual, even as her mom's Alzheimer's progressed. So today, we are going to give Dawn a call and hear her story in connection to the show. All right. Let's call her. Let's do it.

This is Dawn. Dawn. Hi, Dawn. It's Sterling and Mandy and Chris. How are you? Oh, my God. You guys, thank you so much for calling me. I'm so good.

I just love hearing your voices. I can't believe it. I already love your vibe. This is, so we're, we're calm because we know that you have a special connection to the show. You and your mom watched it together as her journey through Alzheimer's continued, will you, will you share with us, please? Oh my God, you guys, thank you so much. I have been wanting to share this, and I've been waiting for us to get to season four

in the podcast, so I finally email you guys and try to get on the fan segment. So here we are. Here we are. Together. So glad to hear you. You guys, I can't thank you enough for doing this podcast, and I feel like your show and the podcast have just coincided with this Alzheimer's journey that I've been on with my mom. So you guys, obviously the show started in 2016.

Yeah. And we were seeing, mom was not diagnosed yet, but my sister and I were talking to my dad that we really wanted that to happen. Sterling, and how you did that with Rebecca, with Mandy as your mom, was, it was, it was spot on because my mom got upset. And it took us two years to get her diagnosed. Yeah. So anyway, my parents live in Illinois, and I live in Iowa. So when mom and I watch the show together, we're separately, we're in our own homes. But Wednesday morning, I would drive to work and call mom.

And the only thing to talk about on a Wednesday morning is this is us. That was the only thing was to talk about it. And we just, we loved every single thing about it. And it just was our connection. And she got diagnosed in 2018, and things are progressing a little bit. And then we're 2019. I think we're in season four by then. And COVID, and COVID was not kind to people with dementia.

Sure. With the isolation. So, Mom, the phone calls stopped. At least the phone calls about our show. She couldn't keep up with it anymore. And the forward and the backwards and the present time, that was confusing for her. but dad always promised me they always still watched it. She couldn't remember it, but she still watched it.

So that was super important. So I finished the season without mom talking about it. And then in January of 2024, you guys started this podcast, I think, right around that time. And that's when mom Alzheimer's Alzheimer's was really progressed. So I decided I need to spend more time with mom before she forget who I am and to help out dad. So starting January in 2024, I go, I have gone every other Thursday morning from Iowa to my parents in Illinois, my childhood home, and I come back here every Saturday. So I'm there. And so what you guys have been like literally on the car ride with me because I say, you guys do one every week. And so I

save one that they drop on Tuesday. So I watch, I listen to, I don't watch. I'm driving. So I'm safe. So I listen on Thursday morning on my way there, and then I say the next one I have saved for my way back on Saturday. And to have you guys just there with me in the car listening to going over every episode. And I have watched the show so many times I can picture every scene in my head. And so it's just it's comfort. It's so much comfort for me. And then what happened in 2024, you know, it's just so emotional watching my mom. progress and helping my dad and all of this. I also should note that I'm a mental health

therapist and so feelings are just huge for me right and like I can't keep my feelings in and so I didn't know what to do with all of this. So in 2024 and 2025 I actually wrote and published a book called Memories Matter about my journey with my mom. And this is us, of course, had to be in part of this book, in part of my book. So I write about, and I know I'm jumping way ahead, but it's just so important that I write about the scene. It's one of the last episodes, and Chrissy, oh my goodness, how Chrissy as Kate shows you, Sterling and Justin, how to be present with Rebecca, with your mom. The lotion, the lotion, the hand, the lotion on the hand, the hair brushing.

And so when I watched that the first time, that was in 2022. And I was like, okay, wow, that's amazing. I'm not there yet. But then in 2024, I am there. And now I am there with my mom. And there's less verbal. There's less talking. And all we have is like that present moment.

And Chrissy, as Kate, showed you guys how to do that because she wanted you to connect with Rebecca. and the show does an amazing job with that. That's all you have is those couple moments. And I know I'm just talking so fast. I'm so excited. This just means so much to me. And Mandy, I do not know how you did it.

I don't know how you as a young woman became an older woman with Alzheimer's. And you know what? You did it right. Thanks. Oh, my gosh. So good. I have been around Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's a lot and you just did it right.

And I always worry about shows. I'm like, oh, boy, the show is doing Alzheimer's right. I don't know how I'm going to feel about it. But you guys, you did it right. And everyone on the show should be so proud of this storyline that it then kind of takes precedence for the rest of the season. It's huge. Wow.

Dawn. Don. Where do we start? Dawn, quick question for you. How far is your drawing? every Thursday and Saturday. It's 325 miles. There they are.

We're seeing a picture of you with your mom and dad. Amazing. Oh, and can I say something about the picture? Please. Okay, so Miss Piggy is my mom's emotional support stuffed animal. Yes. And another thing that this is us did so well. And when, also in the very last season, so again, sorry, jumping ahead.

but Chrissy brings on the cat. I remember. Right? Yes. And Sterling, you and Justin, as Randall and Kevin, were so funny and so uncomfortable with it. But it was spot on because it is uncomfortable. It is weird. And my mom has a crocheted pig that wears a crocheted sweater.

And her name is Miss Piggy. and she's a member of the family because that is where we're at. My mom loves her. And to connect with mom, you've got to love Miss Piggy. Yeah. Hey, Dawn, can you ask you a question? Because something that I'm really struck by in this photo,

what has your father's journey been like? Oh, my gosh. Thank you for asking. They just celebrated their 60th anniversary. Wow. And they have been through so much in their lives. And my dad says this is the hardest thing he's ever done. But their love is beautiful.

Their love is beautiful. And he is a caregiver. He is just wired that way. And we're finally getting a little help in the home. But he does it. He is. And Miguel, let's talk about Miguel for one second again. Let's talk about Matt, please.

He showed that is exactly what my, my dad does with my mom every morning. That episode of Miguel's, oh my God, and with the music, it just breaks my heart. But it's true. It's true. And he, kudos to Miguel as well. So all the caregivers, my good gracious. So you do this 650-mile round trip so you can spend all a Friday with your mom.

Yep, I get there at noon on Thursday. And then we have the rest of Thursday all of Friday, and I leave Saturday around 9 a.m. How long have you done this for? For the past, how long? Yes, since January 2024, almost two years. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

And I'm fortunate I can get the leave from work and I just drive and I'm just there. I'm just present with my parents and we just are, we hang out with Miss Tiggy and we go to the Arboretum and we walk. And we just, we're just there. Don, is there anything that you would have to say to people who are going through something similar or in the beginning stages in terms of like, you seem to be in a place, and I'm sure it oscillates and it comes and goes or whatever, but of real acceptance and sort of just being in the moment of appreciation for what is rather than lamenting what is not? How you get there, sister? Oh, it is tough. It is hard to get there. And that is partly why I wrote my book because you have to acknowledge, it's okay to acknowledge the negative feelings. I'm not like this positive and this like excited about Miss Higgy and where my mom is at every time. But it takes a while to get there and you're going to have the tears. And on my drive homes or my drive there, I do cry. I listen to my sad music or, you know, listen to your podcast.

whatever you guys are talking about. And I do cry and I grieve. So there is the grief. It's called ambiguous grief because they're still here. But then you learn like, okay, this is where we're at. And I can either miss, I can be sad and upset all the time. And I will miss beautiful moments with my mom. And so if I let some of that go and my mom can still say randomly, she loves me.

She doesn't know exactly who I am, but she knows she loves. love me. And so it is a gift to hear those words, to see her look at me and take my hand. And so that is what we have right now. And I'm grateful for it. While I have also mourned and had a lot of losses. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough balance. It really is. So you try to be kind to yourself. And again, you know, of course, all the self-care and be gentle, there are going to be days where you're not your best as a caregiver or family member. We do our best. That is wonderful advice. Incredible. Yeah. Dawn, I've just I've just pulled up your book. Is it okay if I if I tell our listeners about it? Oh my gosh, Chris. Yes, thank you. It's called memories matter.

Like you said, understanding emotions and helpful advice for Alzheimer's and dementia caregivers by Don Brennaman Words spelled W-I-R-T-Z, if Anybody is interested in reading about your journey with this and the things that you've learned. Oh, Chris, thank you. Thank you. Of course. This podcast is not just a podcast. And it was never just a show because there are so many life.

It's about life. And everyone, as we've heard, all the other listeners, they have had infant loss. They have had adoption. they've had alcoholism, mental health, all of it. And we relate to the show. And you guys are keeping it going with this podcast. And I don't know what I'm going to do when it ends. I got to tell you, maybe I'll listen to it again.

We were just trying to figure that out today. We were talking to each other. Okay, so we're one out of episodes here at some point. I know. I know. What are we going to do? I don't know. We'll figure it out together, Don.

Yeah. Don, thank you for your honesty, for your vulnerability, for sharing your beautiful parents. with us and your mom's story and your story. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We're so honored that our little show is a part of your life in such a, you know, in such a profound way.

That means, it means so much to us to know that we've even had some, you know, bit of an impact on at least like the idea of like seeing yourself, seeing your situation, feeling less alone, knowing that like, you know, there's a lot of love put into telling a story like this. There's a lot of respect. There's a lot of grace and consideration. And for you to feel that, for you to feel like this is a mirror to something, you know, similar to what you're living through. And we've been, you know, very mindful to try to handle these situations as respectfully as possible. And for that to kind of be echoed back to us means a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

So much love and respect that you guys did with this. You did it just. Just amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for talking with us, Don. Oh, my gosh, it's so great to hear your voices. I love it. I know everyone said this, but I really am like your biggest chance. Don, you're the best.

Don, what is your mom's name again? Oh, Kathy. Cassie. We're sending Cassie, all of our love. And your sweet father, what's his name? Oh, Gary. Cassie and Gary. Come on.

Oh, my God. Yes, my dad is so excited for me for this, and mom would just, oh, she would be, she would love it. Amazing. God bless you again. God bless all of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

You too. Have a good one. Bye, Dawn. Bye, bye, bye. Okay. Bye-bye. Incredible. And again, from the back of her book, Memories Matter, Understanding Emotful,

and Helpful Advice for Alzheimer's and Dementia caregivers. Dawn Brennaman Wartz is a mental health therapist in Ankeny, Iowa. She earned her Master's of Science and Counseling from Drake University in 2018. Prior to this, Dawn worked for numerous retirement communities in the Des Moines area over a 20-year period. Don's mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 2018. And since then, she has been on this emotional journey with her mom. You can tell she's just like a deeply, soulfully good human being. Yeah.

Yeah. It had not occurred to me. She made that connection with Chrissy and, and Rebecca, or Kate and Rebecca, about like, this is a disease that forces a person into the present moment. All they have literally is the present moment. They have no past. Yeah, you can't reflect on the past with them. There's no future.

So how do you, and the hardest thing for us to do in life is to be present, yeah. Is to be present. So how can you be present with someone experiencing this? is a tricky thing. But what a gift to have her experience to learn from. And her story. Yeah. And this picture.

I don't know. This picture is like a thousand words. It really is. Look that man's eyes. I know. All of them. Yeah. Thank you, Dawn.

Yeah, thank you, Don. We have the best listeners. This is 416. This is the end of this episode. We lost Sterling over there. I'm going to take a nap. Sterling needs a nap. You know what?

Like that, I don't know. bringing up a lot of stuff. Sure, sure, man. Just that the show, show does impact people. Yeah. You know, that it can be a form of comfort to folks. This woman drives 325 miles there, 325 miles back so she can spend a day and a half with her mom every week. Just tomorrow's not promised, man. Yeah, I know. You know what I'm saying? This woman's taking advantage of the time that she has while she has it. And God bless that, man. Yeah, that's sweet man, sweet Gary. That was done.

That was done. That was us. You can reach out to us at that was us at Gmail. That was us pod. That was us. Lord of mercy. We got you, Sterling. How was us pot at gmail.com?

Crack pipe. It's crack pipe. Definitely not. It's sneak pipe. Speak pipe. Speakpipe.com slash that was us. Slash that was us. Say hi.

Come through. We're here. Yeah. If you have a story, you want to show. share. I mean, not everyone's story is the same. Our episodes, this show touches on a variety of topics. So whatever your way into the show is was that you want to share with us, believe you me, we are ready and willing to hear from you. So please reach out. Yeah. Love you guys. Love you too. Love you, too. This was a great episode. It's a great episode. See you next time.

That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions, music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da-da-da-dum. That was us.