That Was Us - The Painting | "The Game Plan" (S1E5)

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Life is full of color, and we each get to add our own color to the painting of life. Even in death, we’ve still left our mark. We’re still a part of the painting. Kevin Pearson illustrates the beauty of this message, which also serves as the meaning behind what “That Is Us” is all about. As Kevin said, “There’s no you or me or them. It’s just us.” Come be a part of our painting and join us in conversation. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing Season 1, Episode 5, The Game Plan. Jack and Rebecca argue about the idea of starting a family. The story behind the family's love for the Pittsburgh Steelers is revealed, and Kevin discovers that the script for his part in the play is relevant to his own. life. One and sip, and two, and sip, and three and sip. Oh, hey, I'm just sipping Tim's all-new protein ice latte. Starting at 17 grams

per medium latte, Tim's new protein lattes. Protein without all the work. At participating restaurants in Canada. Welcome, friends. Hello, hello. How are we doing today? Doing good. Happy to see your faces. Always gives me great joy to see you, Amanda Lee, and you too, It's cozy in here today. It is.

It feels good. It feels good. We're talking about episode five. Now, Mandy texted us. I did. Because she had an experience in watching episode five. You want to talk about it about it a little bit? Well, just it really hit me like a truck.

Like I was in all of my feelings. When that montage hit? When that montage hit, look, when this montage hit initially, this, this. This was, I think, the point in the show for me as a viewer, experiencing it the first go round, that I really recollected the feeling all of the emotions for the first time. Like truly recognizing what other people sort of found in our show, just how emotional it could be and how cathartic it could be. This episode really, like, pushed all those buttons for me.

There were several instances throughout my interactions with people with these episodes where people think that they're about to make it through an episode without this is us getting them. Sure. And then right at the end, this is us gets them. And this is like the perfect example of that. It's the quintessential. You guys remember in the season one, we'd all like read the scripts maybe like around, like, within days of each other. And we'd come up to each other, be like, have you read this?

Have you read this? Have you read it? Have you read five? In reading five, I knew that Dan Fogerman was a good writer. And it was in reading five, I was like, this. dude is on another level. Because he had told me this idea that he had about this painting, right? We'll get to that in a second. But he told me the idea and I'm like, huh, that's interesting. How's that you to work?

You know? And then I read it and I was like, oh, you're on another level, bro. Like the way your brain sort of works is different. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So we talked to him about that when he was in here. We did. Right?

And he was mentioning like that there are certain things that he just has to the people are just going to have to trust. Yes. That what he's talking about will work. Yeah. Even if it might not make sense. Yeah, defy's description. Yeah.

Just let him do his thing. Yeah. Listen, this was also our last table read ever. Ever. Did we ever do anything in like season six? Never. We didn't do anything in the last season. That's what I was thinking.

Like, did we do one? So for anybody who doesn't know what a table read is, like, well, the hell, you need some help. I hope. Yeah, yeah. So, like, we talked about it in our first episode. But essentially, like, as we were going, we would stop in the middle of the day at lunch and take an extra hour to gather all of the creatives, all the writers, all the cast to sit down in a conference room and read an upcoming episode. Read the episode. And it's normally a measure that's meant to be informative for the writers, the showrunner, creatives, everybody, the powers that be to sort of make sure that something is working.

Correct. And I think it became apparent with our show once we were going, A, there just wasn't the time. And B, it was working. It's all working. We don't need to do this anymore. It became unnecessary. Yeah, we don't have time. We truly did not have time anymore. But this was a great episode to end on.

It was a brilliant, brilliant episode. And even as you're talking about reading it, like the way my brain works, I have, I don't know if you guys, when I read scripts, I'm a lot of times I need to check in with other people. Yeah. Not that this is us scripts, but like when I'm reading something, my brain, it takes a lot for me to picture things well. I hear you. I hear you. Like, I don't know what my brain bias is, but I'm picturing like the least good version of this instead of imagining the best version of this. But one of the things like these episodes, the way that they're formed a lot of times, we have these montages that the music comes in.

Yeah. There's a monologue going on that is. over the top of that, that informs what you see that is happening at a different time. And it was, in rewatching it was one of my first, the first times realizing the magic of Dan Fogelman as an editor. Sure. Because for the process of our show, and I guess in television in general, directors get the first pass at the edit.

And they get it down to the best shape that they think they can get it to. Yeah. hopefully close enough to time. And then it gets passed on to, in our case, Dan. Yes. And Dan takes it and makes it what it is. And we both have had this experience as directors on the show. Yeah.

I was very proud of my edit. I thought it was a great episode of television. And then after Dan handled it, I honestly couldn't tell you what he changed, but he changed everything. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. His fingerprints are all over.

it in the best way you're like what oh okay the musicality and the the rhythms and the timing and it's that thing when you don't think this is us is going to get you right dan is going to get you at the very end the music swells the voiceover kicks in and that first when when kevin starts talking about a guy i never knew who landed in this country yeah and it was just that was when the episode just hit me as well yeah Well, let's think of from the top, if we may be, because I think we get a version of Rebecca Malone that is not played by Mandy.

Shots on the bedside table. Oh, the little baby version. The little girl! Is that the only time that you haven't played you? There have been a few of those times, but they're always that age. I just couldn't be six. No matter how much we tried. That would be great.

We'll redo those scenes with you for this podcast. Just my head. Just floating around. Oh, I guess that's her maiden name for those who don't know. Rebecca. It'll come later. But you see like this sort of informative moment of like her mom sort of running around like a chicken with her head cut off,

trying to make sure that everything is in place for her dad to watch the game and sort of just do that, right? And then we flash to you and Jack at Froggy? At Froggies. At Froggy's watching the game and you're like, I don't know what's happening. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? And Jack's like, huh? Yeah, okay. And you're like, teach me. Like, I'm not going to be my mom and I'm not going to just sort of be on the outside looking in. Let me know what this is all about. A relationship.

Bring me in. Tell me what it's about. So, like, tell me about that montage because there's several, the evolution of Rebecca as a family. Sure. Before, you know, the Pearson's are the Pearson's of five. They're not even the Pearson's, well, I guess they are, the Pearson's two at this point

when you flash to them in Froggies and Rebecca has learned to love football and has become an ardent, like, avid fan of football and the Steelers. But I love that this is sort of the birth of this football family. You see this, you know, this through line and this thread with the Pearson's throughout the years. Like, the Steelers are in their blood. Yes, they are. And this is where it's sort of the germination of that. But, yeah, you see Rebecca go from not knowing anything about football.

So, like, screaming at the TV, calling someone a bum. And, you know, like, exactly, going to get into it with, like, you know, some fans in the bar. Yeah. But, yeah, I love that, like, we have immediately established that this family is a football family. Do you know much about the game? Do you like the game yourself? I do like the game. We didn't, we were a college football family. Are you Gators family?

Gators. We're a gators, yeah, in Florida. Gotcha. My parents both went to UF and my brother. Yeah. So we're gators. So I grew up with college football. Understood.

We were never had like, my parents were not like a, you know, NFL family. Sure. You guys were. As a kid, I was a huge football fan. Yeah. We moved to Sacramento when I was five. I mean five? Six.

Okay. So the closest football team to us in 1985. Raiders? The 49ers. Fortinioners. Yeah. So we had Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Roger Craig. And it was my first introduction to being a fan of a sports team, which was the 49ers.

And then the 49ers had their training camp in Sacramento. And my dad had connections. So me and my brother got to go to the training camp and eat lunch with them in their cafeteria. And we sat across the table, had a very nice conversation with a third string quarterback named Steve Young. Get out of here. Yeah. Just Steve, just, yeah, nobody's Steve Young. Was he third string?

He wasn't even like, the backup? I don't, I don't remember. But to my recollection, I mean, he was not close to being Steve Young. Wow. You were able to have lunch with him. That's what is it. Yeah, an eight-year-old had lunch with him. That's who, you know.

That's amazing. Him and Bubba Parrish, the biggest man I ever saw. It is, sports can bring people together in a really strong way. My dad and I were Cardinals fans, and the Cardinals weren't the best of football teams in St. Louis. They got better when they went to Phoenix, what have you. But fandom is something, which is such an interesting thing, because the highs are incredibly high, and the lows are so dead gum low. My kids and I were Chargers fans now, and my son said, like, Dad, this is really hard. I said, hey, man, you can't be fair weather.

You got to stick with them through the good and the bad, because when the good happens, you've been there from the start. It means so much more. And so, like, the Steelers have went through a real lull or whatnot, but, like, when they come back, when Kate talks about them later, you understand the importance of, like, having been a lifelong fan. And there's, it's something interesting because my family was never a family sports team. Okay. You know, but it seems to me in rewatching this episode that this Rebecca that we meet

is the first generation of American families that were sports families. Sure. Like in the general, like as we see. It wasn't just the dad off to the side. Right. It wasn't just a thing. But it's the beginning of because sports, for all intents and purposes in the generation before that, we're very young.

Yeah. It's professional sports as a, as a, as a. as a form of American entertainment entertainment yeah American mythology yeah American storytelling yeah and I only made kind of made the connection in watching this episode again where I was like the reason sports are so unifying is because it unites generations there's a story sure there is a story there is a drama there are there are ups there are downs there are wins there are losses and you can follow the lineage of that story back to your dad or your, you know, and that's why it becomes so important like you're teaching

your sons to stick with it because you got to, you got to, you can't put the book down halfway through. Yeah. You won't know how it ends. Exactly. Exactly. So in the midst of this, we also see, okay, this is coming back to my America's relationship with Rebecca. Because Rebecca's like, promise me we'll never have kids. Yeah. And it's almost like... And we know that's not happening. He's like, I got news for you, Rebecca, but it's like, talk to me through like that whole

idea, because I think this is actually a really important thing to know that not everybody who has children was just eager and, like, desirous of them from the time in which they were born. Sure. Right? Speaking for Rebecca here. I believe, yes, she did want children with Jack. Right.

I also believe she was one of those people who was not solidified in her career. She wasn't happy where things were. She thought she'd be further along. She says as much in the episode. And I also believe she's one of those people that was like, maybe there will just be that right time, that right sign that reaches me that says, like, now is the time to have a family. And I just, I think that she's like leaning on the fact that she's still youngish, you know.

29 was not young at that time to have children. Sure. Quite old. Yeah. And she says all of my friends have kids already. But speaking personally, I did not relate to this because I've always dreamed about being a parent. And just, yes, I was always very excited. And it was like, you know, just waiting for the right time.

I guess, I'm the right person. So I couldn't necessarily relate to her in that sense. I'm like, you don't want to have babies with Jack Pearson? Like, are you crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rich and I joke about it sometimes because there are those, the days of wine and roses, you know, where you're, where you are, there's shots on the, on the nightstand, there's. Oh, yeah. There's sleeping in.

You're hanging out at a bar called Frogies. You know, you can, you could pack a bag and. go wherever you want, whenever you want. Sometimes there's nobody I love more than my two kids. But when Rachel and I are alone, I was like, see, we could have had this. This could have been our life. This could have been us. We're sitting in a hot tub in the mountains, long as we want.

With no children. Long as we want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because for me, so I think Ryan and I were on, to echo it back to this show, I was pretty much Jack. And I was like, we're going to be married two years. and then after that we can, like, get to it, right? And she's like, yeah, like we were both on the same page.

Yeah. And then two years happened, and she's like, I kind of want to have a stronger foothold in my career, know that I can have something to come back to. So we waited another two years, and I was like, ah, come on, we're going to do this thing? I was really excited to have these kids. Just walking around the house nude.

This is true. Ready. Now, here's the thing, though. I got two boys. You can still walk around the house nude. Okay. everybody everybody walks around house nude ron does not lock the bathroom door when she has to use the restroom and everybody just walks in oh wow and she'll be somewhat annoyed but then at the same

time like what do you need man oh wow oh wow oh you don't say it that's how he's private time he's that how he works oh wow but you know that is so i'm at a place now Well, I almost can't remember what it's like to not have kids. That's great. Oh, I'm there. I can't remember right. Yeah, yeah. Can you?

I can when I'm sitting in a hot tub. You know, in the mountains. That's, the thing is, I can't. And then you end up in a hot tub. And you can't. And you're like, oh. This. This is a reminder.

More that was us after this short break. With MX Platinum. Access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Presale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.ca.

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And we have something for you from TalkSpace. Right now, they're offering every listener of this podcast $80 off your first month with promo code space 80 when you go to Talkspace.com slash TWU. I'll save $80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com slash TWU to get $80 off your first month with code space 80 and to show. Talkspace.com slash TWU Code Space 80. Somebody said, like, I've not gone on a vacation with my wife since I've been a parent, and they had been parents for 17 years. Oh, no. They said they'd had a weekend, you know, where somebody comes to help or whatnot, but, like, they just had, like, their first week.

And it made me sort of cognizant. I'm like, when's the last time? We've had like a couple of weekends. You hop up to Bacara or what have you or like a reunion weekend. But like I've never spent, I don't think I've spent a week with just me and my wife since I've been a parent. Oh, you need to do that. Probably need to. Yeah, you do.

Thank you. You were the one, six months a year ago. It was like, Sally, get out of town with your wife. Yeah. Like, because the babies were getting too, kind of a slightly more self-sufficient thing. And you were right. Thank you. Hot tub in the mouth.

I spoke from the kids, man. It's important. It's important. So it's interesting to see, like, you know, we clocked the evolution of that. And listen, Jack is so like, he looks like a puppy. Like, every time you say, like, promise me, we'll never have kids, he's like, okay, promise. You know what I'm saying?

Like, oh, my God, that must have been painful. Like, thank God we don't have that. And he's like, uh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, man. Hey, bucks. Like, and so when he's finally able to have the. conversation. And what I love about Mandy Moore as Rebecca, she's like, you want to do this

now? Like we in the middle of the Super Bowl party dog and this is a conversation you have to have and him puppy dog, I just want to know that there's a time in which we can have. And so she's like, okay, let me step outside and we put on my beret and look all cute. The beret is such a strong choice. The beret is so, you're so adorable though. It's like ridiculously adorable. You're sweet. And he comes outside and you guys have this lovely conversation about, of course, I want to have kids with you. Yeah. You know, but it is a real thing that she talks about in terms of, it is easy.

And this is something like when Ryan and I had our children, like, I didn't have to take time away from anything. Right. Right. Like, as a matter of fact, like, I moved, I got the P90X DVDs. I got hooked up something in the garage. I started going to, like, L.A. fitness was just right around the corner, so I would never be too far away from home. But if I went to the L.A. fitness, which is literally less than a mile away,

she's like, so you got to go to the gym? I'm like, nope, I can go into this garage and do this P90X. So you got to go to the clinic. She was like, I don't want you to do anything. I want your belly to get big like mine. I'm not to work out. I want you to stop and be fat and just relax. And I was like, I can't do that.

But I can't put it in this house so that I'm here anytime that you need something, right? So there's, there is the understanding for as a dude, like, it is easier. Right. Yes. To the idea of wanting kids sometimes, like, you have to do all of the other stuff. Yeah. I just provide a way for you to have. To do it.

To do that other stuff. I know. Correct. And for those of our listeners who don't understand, can you explain? What, how that, how... How babies are in. When a man and a woman love each other. They go into a bathroom at a bar.

After the Super Bowl win. After the Super Bowl, not just a regular season. Not any Sunday football regular season. No, no. And that's what, like, because I'd forgotten that, conceived at Froggy. I guess technically, Randall was not going to say that. But, you know. The other babies were, and I'll never forget our director.

Telling Milo and I, George Tillman to just go for it. We're doing that. I'm like, this is network television, sir. But I got to say, when Jack and Rebecca kiss, the mouth is open. Yeah. Like, there's just, there's some exchange of bodily flu. Yes.

That's happening there. I'm like, okay, Jack and Rebecca. Yeah. Y'all has to be loving on each other. I was like, his beard don't come off for nothing. I'm like, y'all make it happen. Sometimes it was real. Sometimes that beard was.

Sometimes that beard was. Oh, yeah, I would have stray hairs in my mouth. Exactly. Glue. Yeah, I'd be spitting, like, fake hair out of my... Rash on your chin. Disgusting, yeah. Totally.

I believe this might have been a fake beard up. No, maybe not. It may have been. It was hard in the first season because it was like half and half. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First time me singing on the show. Talk to me about just about to ask. Was it one of those things where you were trying to, like, avoid?

Did they ask you if you would be open to it? It was just... There. It was in the script. I was like, okay. I, yes. I know there had, over the years, people have been like, oh, do you have to like sing in every project? And I'm like, no, I don't want to.

I don't ask for that. I don't seek that out by any means. When you have Mandy Moore, this is true. No, no, no. But I think maybe just Dan was aware, obviously, that I sang because of Tangled and us working together in that capacity before. But I loved that they included music in her backstory. And I love this particular era of music and that we were, you know, back in the 70s, late 70s.

And that's a great song, too. This little feat song, Willan, which is great. Linda Ronstat does a great version of it as well. And my husband, you don't see him, but him and his band were the backup band. Are you serious? Did you know that? I didn't know that either. You just see one quick shot.

You can only see like two of the band members, but not Taylor, not my husband. But, yeah, they got to get all dressed up and come and... Incredible. Okay. Sidebar, how long had you guys been married at that point? We weren't married yet. We were just dating. That's right. How long had you been dating?

A little over a year. A little over a year. Yeah, yeah. You guys are doing TV shows together. Yeah, I think he was sort of like, you're doing what now? You want us to do what? And I'm like, yeah. I mean, it was also like the show hadn't started airing yet, so no one knew what it was

or what it would be. Right. He was like, yeah, they were game for it. It was fun. Awesome. Awesome. Jumping into the Randall, Beth, Kevin, William sort of scenes. We see Kevin, obviously, in the last episode, comes to Randall and Beth's house.

He's sick of staying in his gorgeous, gigantic suite in New York City. And Beth and Randall are like, whoa, we'll take it, though. Yeah. So you guys quickly volunteer to have, speaking of, a little couples get away. It's important. There we go. Hot tub in the mountains. Hot tub in the mountains.

They take their time. And I love that I loved to the whole exchange between you and Susan about like, we're going to do this and we're going to be in robes and then we're going to have sex and then we're going to order room service. We're going to eat burgers, pizza, burgers, pizza. Like, all of that was just classic Sterling, classic Randall. So much joy and excitement. So much joy.

And obviously then that is trumped by Beth's news about potentially being pregnant. Yes. And then I loved flashing back to Kevin. being Uncle Kevin with William and I wrote down Do you know how to read? I wrote down the same line. I have some tough questions here

and first is a bit of a doozy. Dina read. I almost fell out of the bed. I was just like, this is too much. Again, I... Of course you do. Of course you know how to read. And then the whole, like, you're a Pixar owl

and I'm a Labrador, like, just that whole thing. I was like, how do people not watch the show and think like and immediately think about how funny it is like yeah that's always been my take on it too like it makes me laugh out loud so many moments in episodes yeah um as well as you know when you guys go to the pharmacy and the two thumbs two hands thing like with susan who has two hands was hilarious you're saying it wrong but yeah the little motion of her like back to herself with both her little hands. I was like, it's too much.

So this scene is really, really a turning point for Black Pearson's. And that Dan said, like, I didn't know if you guys could handle, like, comedy. Right? Because he didn't think of us as being like, we were supposed to be, he always described us as like the solid sort of tent poles of the family responsible, et cetera, sort of like people sort of gather around us, right? but knowing that he could also do things with us that had like a bit more levity or whatnot.

And you guys are like a classically trained comedy duo. There's like the straight man and the clown and like perfection how you play with each other. We have so much fun. Every once in a while I get myself and I go, well, there goes Charleston. There goes Charleston. And she's like, what are you even talking about, bro? This whole episode, one of the notes I wrote down,

was about secret plans. And this is something that my wife and I have to constantly check in with each other because we have these like stories going on in our heads about how things are going to go. Yes. But I don't share it with you. And then when it doesn't go that way,

I'm now upset with you. Sure. For the plan not going. Right. The way that the secret plan number that I never shared with you. That I've never told anybody about. And it's like,

and every character has a secret plan about not having kids about having kids about That plan is great I just always thought You know once when you went to get We'd retire to Charleston Sometimes I go on Zillow It's hysterical

Rachel and I Zillow flirt Zill is fun Do you guys real estate flirt? We do In fact I remember like going on a trip With you and Rachel actually Remember when we went to Portland

Yes The first time We yes Taylor and I are immediately like We should move to Portland We're just immediately like Like looking up real estate, yes. I love going on a trip and doing nothing more.

And we were in the other hotel room. Doing the same thing. Doing the same exact thing. Should we all live in Portland? Yes, should we buy a compound? Do you guys want to live here? Milo has a house in Portland. He does.

Yeah, yeah. Is it beautiful? No, it's Portland beautiful. I've never been. Oh, yes. Yes. It's gorgeous. Should we all vacation together?

Let's do it. Maybe. Okay. We should do a live episode of that episode. We'll do a live episode in Portland or Seattle, which is also gorgeous. Seattle. Randall and Beth in no tell. So it's interesting, too, because we're 36 in the show.

But Randall already and Beth already have like a 10-year-old, 8-year-old. I'm trying to figure out how old the girls are who are so adorable in this episode. Like when they get to the conversation about death. About death? Yeah. Oh, my God. Mommy and daddy are going to die. Yeah.

It's bedtime. Yeah, he fumbles. That's so hard. A real champ. I wrote, I wrote down even before that, which is, is that how you're going to do that? Yes! Yes! I used to say that to my best friend in college when we were doing shows.

Totally. I would walk up and say, I'm like, is that how you're going to do that? You're going to shift it around a little bit. But the idea that like, because I think I had my last kid at 39. I was 39. But I can only imagine having had two. Could you imagine having had two and then, like, waiting another 10 years? And having another.

And then having another. Like, my mom did that. Yeah. Because my brother and sister are 14, 12 and a half years older. But she had remarried to a different dude. But I was like, hats off to you, Mark. Because I don't think shop is closed. Yeah.

The mindset has shifted. Completely and totally. But it was really sweet to see Randall and Beth on that floor and that bathroom. And then it's like the first time he says, you know, a little boy would be okay. I loved that turn. You know? Yeah.

You know, because it's like, whatever happens, we're going to figure out a way. Together. To move through this joint together. Yeah. It may not be what we want it, but, you know, it couldn't be, it wouldn't be terrible. Yeah.

You know. And then they did. And then to see them receive the news. Yes. And that montage was pretty sweet too. Because you were with them. You were with them. You're like, okay.

Yeah. Like, this could happen, and they're embracing it and they're ready for it. And I think we as an audience can be ready for it, too. Even watching it, even knowing the response, I was like, this is something that this show is going to do. Yeah. Agreed. She, of course, she's going to be pregnant. I mean, and I also just love the departure from the house.

And, like, Kevin's keeps talking about, like, I don't want to mix up the wine orders for the girls. And, like, Beth doesn't find it funny at all. I'm like, ha, ha, ha, don't call us. But call us is something, this is like, but don't need to do that. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's such a dude move. Try not to need us.

This is the only chance we get here. Do not call us. Don't call me, bro. Deal with it. Did you guys also laugh going back to Jack and Rebecca, because I kind of did it, the universal lie of Jack and Rebecca telling each other, like, well, when we have kids, it'll be different.

Like, nothing will change between us. That's right. Okay. We all have to tell ourselves that, right? That'll be different. I had a friend of mine who was like, we'll just, we'll work the baby into our schedule. Yeah, like living our life.

We're gonna keep, we're gonna keep, we're gonna keep. It's so funny. Because at that time, I hadn't had kids yet. And I'm like, oh. Yeah, I don't know you could do that. I guess you could do that. I was pretty sure, I'm pretty sure you can do that. But I guess, I'm not sure if it was this episode or maybe it's the episode after where, where

Jack's like, like, is your life any different? He's like, oh, yeah, it's like absolutely different. Yeah. And I just, I chuckled at that too. I was like, well, at least someone's being honest. Somebody knew, you know what I'm saying? To be able to give them like a little bit of perspective. Yeah.

But God bless you guys going at it in that bathroom. Going at it at Froggies. That's delightful. National television. Let's talk about Toby and Kate. Let's talk about her relationship to football, how she likes to watch it. Another secret plan. Another secret plan.

Deep secret. This is a deep secret because we have to get to this reveal. because this was a big reveal. This was a big reveal. But it was just like, oh, what are you doing tonight? She's like, I'm going to watch some football. She's like, so we're watching football. Great.

Right? And she's like, no, just me. You're like, what are you talking about? Like, I can watch football too. So you pass the note to everybody in the class. Just pass it along. Just pass it along. Right through the person sharing.

Which I had forgotten about. I remember passing the note, but I was like, oh, no, he passed through the person who's currently sharing. She checks it out, and it's so sweet. You got the little cutouts and everything. She's like, all right. So she gets to the crib. You got healthy snacks for her.

She's like, oh, Toby. Then this Negro shoots. Shoot her. Shoot her. I was like, why did you bring your buddy? Like she already wanted to watch it by herself. And you're like, no, we're going to make it a party. Not a big party.

Yeah. I had to bring somebody else who likes football. It was just not me, but it's my buddy. And he understands the vote. football. Hey, man. Wait. This is for the wide only. Just shoot her. Standing up, me like, LED, plasma. I can't tell. She's like, hey, man, can you move from in front of the motherfucking TV, Jack? I'm trying to watch some football. Then you pause to tell the Ashley Simpson story. Oh, God, you guys got to hear this. You got to hear this. Yeah, it was, it was. That really got to start.

First of all, it was... I'm a football fan. I'm like, hey, man, you're stopping this TV for what? Yeah, we'll start it. We'll start in a second. Because it's also totally something I would do. Yeah. Yeah.

It was, but this moment also was, I was like, oh, Toby has a friend. All right, I will be around a little longer. We'll be around a little longer. Note to self. They've given Toby a friend. They've given him a friend. And all he needs now is some family. and we'll be here multiple seasons.

Shooter was not one of the dudes at The Bachelor. Yes, he was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. Oh, good. Okay, good, good, good, good. Yeah.

So that moment, and then she's like, so you pause, and then she's like, I want to watch it live, like catch up and like touchdown happened. And she's like, all right, um, I had to go. And you're like, wait, what are you talking about? And she was very polite. She was like, this isn't working for me. I got to get to the career so I can focus on this thing. That reveal, because I forgot, like, it's so much happens that you don't remember that everyone doesn't know.

Right. They're unsure. They're unsure of what Jack's fate is at this particular time. And then by episode five, you've watched the episode. It's a rewatch podcast. We now know that Jack has died. Yes. Because they're having a conversation.

And Toby says, I'd like to meet him some. She says she watches football with her dad. She goes, okay. I'd love to meet him. And she places an urn in front of him. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

All right. Now, I'm trying to think, like, can you guys recall it all with the audiences? Like, how they, like, it was a big one. It was a big reveal. It was a big one. Yes. This is what we talked about with Dan, about like, oh, this show is a safe place to be. Yeah.

But Will is going to put us. through it. Yeah. They just killed America's favorite TV character. Yeah, Ned Stark is gone Jack. I don't know what's going to happen. Like that. Like that. We'll be right back with more. That Was Us.

This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar rally. The Ultimate Offroad Challenge. Learn more at landrover.ca. I am always trying to do right by my body.

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Really? Yes, keep my hair from shedding too much. I've been, I've been a big fan, so I'm super psyched that they're a sponsor. Can you tell me what it's like to have hair? It's not bad. Listen, I will say the key is consistency to your routine, Chris. That's maybe where you're missing the boat. Yes. It's the consistency in your routine to get the most beautiful, healthy-looking hair, and I actually use the Vagamore Grow hair serum daily, and my scalp, my hair, they're really flourishing. See, now you have my attention. Yes.

This grow serum you're talking about? Yes. See, fun fact, Vagamore sells one bottle of grow serum every 15 seconds on their website, and they just sold one more to me. Boom. They just sold two more to me. That's how good this stuff is. There goes three.

There goes four. That's how good this stuff is. Give your hair the power of the little pink box. with Vegamore. For a limited time, that was us listeners get 20% off their first order by going to Vegamore.com slash T-W-U and use code T-W-U at checkout. That's V-E-G-A-M-O-U-R.com slash T-W-U. Code T-W-U to save 20% on your first order. V-E-G-A-M-O-U-R dot com slash T-W-U, code T-W-U. And it was interesting because we knew we'd been living with it.

And so then at that point in time, we can now talk about it. Secrets. We had another secret later in terms of like the how that we held on two for a season and a half almost. 2.14? Is that? Yes. The Super Bowl episode?

Yes. And I remember thinking like how, and just rewatching it, I was like, you probably could have told him another way that you dad, he wasn't gone. Yeah. It works great for the audience, but for Kate to do that

to do that to Toby. It's like, oh, all right. It makes, it's conversations like that. It's like, is there anything like that I haven't told Ryan that like 18 years in the marriages that she'd be like, like Ryan dropped something on me the other day that I'd like, this is something I've never heard. and I've known you since I was 18 years old.

Wow. And this is like 30 years down the road. I'm like, this is the fur. I guess it happens. Not intentionally. You know what I'm saying? Sure. And rarely.

She will always say, she'll say, this is her favorite thing. I was like, how come you never tell me it? You never asked. I'm like, what else do I need to ask you? But a deceased father. Yeah. Yeah. That one should.

Well, I mean, yes. But this is still early in their courtship. Sure. Sure. And Kate clearly keeps a lot close to the vest. She does. And I can understand that, like, in her own way and time and fashion, she was going to reveal this information.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. And then Toby elbowed his way yet. Yeah. No, I'm watching way yet. Kicking doors in. I don't understand.

Why, it's such a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. It was a big deal. And that brings us to the seminal part of the episode. So this is, okay. First of all, just the beautiful dynamic between Ron and Justin as Kevin and William is just so gorgeous because he starts it off by saying, you know, you do that a lot. Like, you underestimate yourself.

Yeah. Right? And it's sort of like what we were talking about, about Kevin's character from the beginning. He's easily dismissed. Yes. Whether we're talking about in 104 in the pool, where you have Randall, who is your black child, who wants to be accepted, or Kate. who is your plus-sized daughter and you want her to feel secure, that sometimes young Kevin just sort of like,

and so then he starts to actually internalize and actually dismiss himself. Right. Yeah. Right? He creates his own thing. He creates his own thing. And, you know, he knows he stuck his foot in it

when he was talking about death with the kids and whatnot. And he says, I'm not equipped to do this. And William says, you're doing it again, right? He's like, you were good on that show. And this, it got me, dude. Yeah. It got me because it was like somebody sees him. Yeah.

Right. You're not a pretty face. You're not, you're whatever. It was like, you were good on that show. And I used to, I had three channels, and I would turn it on, and I would enjoy it. Right. So like, it's okay for you to feel good about the things that you do because you are of value, right? You don't have to manufacture anything.

You have value. And I think with that, he sort of says, like, all right, I think I can write this wrong that I sort of did by sticking my foot in my mouth. And he goes to see his nieces and says, listen, I'm going to share something with you, secrets. That I don't even share with your aunt Kate. And he pulls out this painting. I'm going to pull up? Should we pull up the cake? There we go.

There it is. And he says, before I do every job, you know, I paint. It just sort of helps me sort of express what it is that I feel about the project. And he said, this one is sort of about life, you know, and each person has its own color. And we all sort of leave our own color on it. You have the special note. There was sort of this addendum included in the script that we all got from Dan. Yeah.

That says, note to reader, Kevin's monologue. He's talking about the play here and life and death, but also in a larger, more medicines. our manny is struggling to explain what our television show is. This will cover the entire act here supported by light score song and lyrical imagery from both past and future. Not only seeing

other main characters were noted, but potentially even things like the man with the suitcase 100 years ago coming momentarily. No, it's hard to envision in script form but it will be beautiful. But it will be beautiful. No, like, I think it's gonna work? Yeah.

It will work. Dan would do this. throughout the series in the script, leave little notes. He would. And this one obviously was spot on. This is the one where I was like, all right, bro. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not in good hands,

I'm in great hands. And I was just like, whatever you say. Like, you want me to run through this brick wall? And like the idea that the colors don't go away, that like the impact of the people in our lives is forever. Forever. And even colors of people who may not even be here just yet, right? And it's sort of explaining like the sort of multiple timelines and that everything affects everything, whether it is present or not it is present.

You know, I'll have these sort of conversations with Dan or whatnot because he never talks about religion too much or what have you. He's Jewish culturally and, you know, in faith or whatnot. He doesn't go into depths about it. And I'm probably more of a spiritual person than I am a religious. religious person, but like this for me is our God. This is what like the eternal nature of life and the interconnectedness, because what it reminds me is that like we dilute ourselves into thinking that we are separate and distinct, but we are really forever connected. Like that. I would be interested to hear from people who have seen the whole series. Yeah. If you're watching,

as you're going through this show, it can be sad. It can be painful. It can be a struggle. it can be all these things. But I wonder if you would describe the show as sad after you've seen the whole thing. Like looking back on This Is Us. Like if you've seen the whole series and you're talking to somebody who's never seen it, how would you describe it when you've seen the whole painting?

When you've seen the big picture, when you've seen the oneness of everything and how the pain and the fear and the contributes to the larger picture. Sure. Yeah. I think this remains maybe my favorite monologue in the entire series. It's pretty good.

It's profound and it really just encapsulates what the show is, what it's about. And I can't believe that Dan was able to distill that down into, you know, a chunk of script and visual form. I also, there's something about this particular piece of score from Sid that also elicit something from me. And I remember, I believe it's also, it comes back in the finale, the series finale, this piece of music. I remember watching it for the first time and I was like, wait, I know this music. This is, and they're like, yeah, it was from the painting. I was like, yes. I just, there's something about it that like maybe it's nostalgic.

For me, it reminds me of this moment in time or this episode or like this was a real turning point, I think, for me of like, oh, this is what I'm. show is. This is what we're a part of. Like, it is so much bigger than all these other things. It's so much bigger than all of us. Yeah. Yeah, it was just a real moment of impact. It was massive. And Justin, again, I mean, I will continue, I feel like, for the entirety of this podcast, is so underestimated. He is beyond perfection. In every frame of the show, I think he makes his job look so easy. Yes, that's what's deceptive. There you go.

One of the hardest. He is so, he's such an exceptional actor and performer. Yeah. And this is no exception. Like I just, I'm floored by him across the board all the time. Justin, like, you deserve all the flowers, all the praise. It's just, he makes it look so easy. And it's really like one of the harder parts of the show, I think.

Because, like, he's sort of given the title, and he doesn't, it's not verbatim, this is us. And he's like, and I guess that's sort of what, I can't remember what he says, but it's sort of like off the cuff and he has these looks to the girls. Like, that wasn't crazy, right? You know what I mean? Like, he just sort of like looks at him at the end. Perfection. And for that, for that to be exchanged between him and your daughters. Yeah.

Is such a deft stroke of the past. Yeah. And the present, communicating. Yeah. And the future. Like, yeah, his, the vulnerability there of just sharing that part of him. Like, no one knows this. Yeah.

Yeah. Such a beautiful way of, like, owning his mistake, like you said, of sticking his foot in his mouth about what death is. And all, again, another incredible lesson of like, wow, of accountability. And, like, adults can do that with children. And it also sort of just, like, creates this landscape of, like, because everybody once you have to face mortality it can be sort of a there's a moment that you're going to have there but there is also like there's an acceptance in this tapestry that it is part it is part of the ultimate sort of unfolding of everything yeah but that doesn't make anything

less beautiful i mean it it's sort of just the acceptance is something that you sort of like we all come to at different times and different places. And grief is a complicated emotion to sort your way through. If and when you do find yourself on the other side of it, like you wind up, like I think about Ron, you know, like he's still a part of us. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? While I grieve his physical presence being here no longer, we get to celebrate a life

well lived, like an artist who was at the top of his game. who got a chance to share his person and his craft with all of us. You know, I smile when I think about him. That's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Should we talk about some of the little things we see in the... Go for it.

The vignette. We see the 1900s, a man arriving to New York City with a suitcase in his hand. What Pearson's from, do you think? I mean, it felt like Italy or something. To me, just Milo, Italian, I don't know. Copy that. That's what my thought was. Peter Sarnie.

Peter Sime. The man unpacks a suitcase. He reveals an old football or rugby ball. There you go. Little Jack, eight years old, watching football in silence with his dad. Adult Jack teaching Kevin the game. And he also says my kids get to talk. I couldn't talk when I watched the game with my dad or what not.

But my kids, when we watch it, and that mont... Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. He makes a point of that. You see the big three babies. their yellow onesies from the pilot. You see Jack and Rebecca watching the game with their eight-year-olds and celebrating with a terrible towels. You see Jack placing the lucky cap on little Kate's head and then Kate in turn putting that same cap back on Dad's Earn. You see Rebecca and Beth learning that they're not pregnant and Beth, praise of the Lord, celebrating. And then Randall in the near

future packing up Williams things in a box. I don't know if people clocked that initially. I'm not sure if they did either. And I forgot that was part of the montage as I was watching. And I was like, Oh, man. Dan will do that from time to time. He'll shoot some things. And then you see them and you're like, I don't forget. He's like, trust me, trust me. And you're like, I don't know. What is this for? What is it? Yeah. Because obviously at that point in time in the fifth episode, like, spoiler alert, that hadn't happened yet. I'm sure we assume the inevitable is somewhere down the road. So yeah, it's like you had to sort of jump in time into the future a little bit, which I don't think we had done at that point yet. That might have been the first little. That's the first little glimpse into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sports have never been so poetically framed in a way to heal the past or reparent yourself. Yes, reparent yourself. You know, to look at what this meant in my household.

And that's fine. That's what it was. But that's not what it's going to be in this house. That's not how we are going to relate to it. Or that's not how my children. That's not the memory that my children are going to have. Yeah. And each generation hopefully does better than the next.

And this is interesting. I would say, would you say for Jack and Rebecca both, that they sort of like took how they were parented and said like, we're going to do it different? Or do you think there are things that you took from your parents, Rebecca, in terms of like, oh, this is how we did in my house and I liked that. I wish to duplicate or this is how we did in my house. I wish to

push it to the side and do something different. I feel like isn't there a balance for all of us in life and in art? Yeah, yeah. I think there was

many, many things that Rebecca did not want to replicate from her childhood with her parents. Very obvious things. But then I think there were traditions

and ways of celebrating and coming together that she appreciated as a child that she wanted to bring into her life with her family as well. As we move through the show,

I think what I, What I've noticed, and I'm going to clock this now, I feel like Rebecca and Jack were like, I want to create something new and different. I feel like Randall oftentimes, in many ways, just like, I want to hold on. Sure, yeah. So as a testimony to Jack and Rebecca creating memories that it's like, this is a good memory, I would like to have this way. This is how Thanksgiving works. Come on. This is how.

We'll be there soon. Yeah. Oh, we will. slowly making our way to Thanksgiving your favorite holiday. That's so good. As always, we're asking you to like, subscribe, tell your friends about the podcast,

rewatch with us. We have an emotional support hotline for the show. If you feel compelled to leave us a message and tell us how this particular episode impacted your life, if you have a special story around it, that number is 412501-3028. That's it. We also have an email.

Yeah, yeah. Send us a, a video. We want to see your faces. Maybe we'll put a face up here. That Was UsPod at gmail.com. This is a joy. I'm really having a lot of fun doing this. I'm so happy you asked me to do it, Chris. Thank you. Thanks, Chris. One, two, three. That was us. So for today's fan segment, we wanted to go back in time and share an incredible fan letter that was sent to our friend, brother, brother-in-law, son, Justin Hartley, following this particularly poignant episode.

Yeah, I guess in 2016, a woman named Greta Gully wrote a letter following the loss of their student and teammate. And they choreographed a routine to Kevin's monologue, the monologue about the painting. And the choreographed piece is aptly called the painting. Called the painting. So for those of you who are watching this episode on YouTube, you'll start to see the performance play as we read their letter. For those of you just listening to us read the letter, you can watch the full performance video with sound via the That Was Us YouTube channel.

And of course, be sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Dear Justin, my name is Greta Gully, and I'm a choreographer, dance teacher in Louisville, Kentucky. The studio I choreograph for is 360 dance. We have a large, competitive program, and have a huge appreciation for the arts. Our studio is full of dancers ages 3 to 18, several of whom started competing in the first grade and continued until leaving for college. Our studio is more than a studio. We're a family.

Recently, we lost an alum to a rare brain cancer. Her name was Amanda, and she was 20 years old. Amanda was truly one of the most. beautiful young ladies I have ever taught. She had a positive outlook on life and continued to be in high spirits throughout her battle with cancer. Amanda passed away on December 30th, 2016. So at this point, I'm sure you're wondering what this all has to do with you. Well, within our dance program, I have an extremely talented group of 11 to 14 year olds. They strive to be better each day and reach new goals each year. They have grown from winning local competition.

to winning national competitions in New York City. The amount of awards and accolades they have won could fill numerous pages. However, their biggest accomplishment is realizing that competitions are about much more than winning a trophy. When they take the stage, they silence the audience. These girls have become more than dancers. They have become storytellers. This is where you come in. This past fall we were given the news that Amanda wasn't going to make it much

longer. Of course, as God would have it, while we were all enduring the suffering and pain life through us with the news of Amanda, NBC put on this wonderful news show called This Is Us. As I watched religiously each week and loving every moment, one episode spoke to me in a special way. The episode was called The Game Plan. At the end of the episode, you explained your painting relating to the cycle of life to Tess and Annie. Your monologue immediately became a dance peace for me. It was clear your message would help us and others cope with loss and grief. Your words were able to put our hearts in a different place when we would think about death and Amanda. The reality of losing Amanda became a little more peaceful and accepting. I have to admit,

there were still days I would tear up during choreography sessions and have to gather myself by my computer in the corner of the room before turning to face the girls. Without this special three minutes you gave us on TV. I don't know how I could have coped with teaching my current dancers and losing the life of an alum. I had been waiting for the perfect idea for a dance to give this special group of kids since August. As I mentioned before, they're extremely talented in work each year to become better. As they grow, I grow. Each year they push me to challenge myself and create bigger and better pieces for the stage and their audience. I am not one that's okay settling with a mediocre piece.

The minute I saw the episode, I knew it was perfect. Your performance touched our lives, and because of those three minutes, we are now able to touch others too. We have attached a link for you to watch our routine. Our hopes are that you are moved by the performance and feel the passion of the peace.

Thank you for helping these kids have a new outlook on life and death, and thank you for helping us survive the loss of our family member. Your gift of talent has helped strengthen and develop our. We are forever grateful, Greta, Sammy, Abby, Kate Bailey, Kalia, Maya, and Layla. All right. We actually reconnected with Greta recently, who shared that in June of 2023, Kate, one of the dancers who you just saw perform and who signed her name to the letter we just read, was diagnosed with both. bone cancer. And sadly, we learned that she passed away earlier this year.

Greta told us Kate fought her battle with the same passion and determination and strength she used as a performer. She took every challenge thrown her way with an immense amount of courage. Our beautiful, kind, talented performer of Amanda's legacy joined Amanda on Easter Sunday and we'll be leaving a legacy of her own. We are again facing the loss of another. friend, teammate, and student at the young age of 20. But Kate's performance will remind us she's still with us every day. We also see Kate's twin, Abby, lead the dance here. Greta added that they had spent years looking up to Amanda,

so it only made sense that their dance group would become our storytellers and bring life to Amanda's death. Like everything else they do, they did it with passion and grace. They silenced their audiences. and captivated hearts as they honored Amanda. Kate will always be in our painting. The color she added was bright and bold, and it will never fade.

Like Kevin said, just because you can't see them or talk to them anymore, it doesn't mean they're not still in the painting. And here we have a photo of Kate and Amanda, who are no longer with us in flesh, but with us nonetheless. Wow. I'm not even sure how to,

respond to all of that. Well, as always, thank you to our This Is Us, and that was us fan family for your vulnerability and for sharing your stories with us. You and your stories are truly inspiring, and Greta, your girls are so lucky to have you. I mean, holy moly. Yeah, thank you for sharing your gifts with us too.

I am reminded of like the power of art and how art sort of inspires other art. How we sort of collectively are able to turn our life experience, both positive and negative, the joy and the pain, and try to make it into something beautiful for a shared communal experience that people can find themselves inside of. Take solace in, yeah. These babies, man. Yeah. And she was inspired by our show to make something just as beautiful, if not even more exquisite. It's a conversation that is ongoing in the same metaphor of this painting, this painting that never is finished.

Yeah. Continuum. A conversation can start with an episode of television. Yeah. And then it turns into a dance. Yeah. And then it turns into a podcast. And then it turns into a conversation about the TV show on the podcast with the people who created the dance.

Even the letter. The letter is the Lord, have mercy. Yeah. Thank you, Greta. Thank you, Greta. Thank you to these, to the young ladies and to their feelings. families? Because those families lost young people. Yeah. Yeah. Babies. Okay. So a real quick tangent before we end this cast because I think this is an important sort of little

thing. My had a recent loss in my family, my brother's wife. And then I had a recent friend of mine's husband and they've been married for less than a year. Got diagnosed with a tumor in his brain that causes seizures and they'll have to operate or what have you. And we go through these moments in life sometimes when you just sort of ask the universe, why? Yeah. And I think I am a person of faith. And sometimes your faith doesn't mean that obstacles will be removed from your path,

but it allows you sort of the fortitude to believe that everything that is happening, there is some sort of divine planet work, even though. though I cannot recognize it in the present, and that there is some sort of lesson to be gleaned from it. That you love to think that from another perspective, like someone can see everything happening with some sort of design to it. But in that moment, man, it can be so hard.

It can be so hard. So I'm thinking about Greta, I'm thinking about the parents of these two young ladies. and the ability to continue. I think the show was about like, okay, stuff happens, but you have to necessarily continue because there's still beauty around. Of course.

There's still things to be appreciated. There's still things, there's still love to be given and to be received, right? And I just wanna make sure that everybody, like if you're in the midst of a valley, if you're in the midst of a moment, like, hopefully you take a moment to look up and see the other beautiful things

and to see the rest of the love. and know that like the darkness that is right now is only there because there's light around you. That's it. That's a beautiful sentiment, Sterling. Thank you. Yeah, man. All right. Thank you so much for that letter, Greta.

Thank you for the dance. Thank you for your heart. And thank you to all the young ladies that you continue to inspire and teach and grow and nurture. Yeah. All of that. That's it. All right. That was us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Gring Productions and Sarah Warehound.

Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.