That Was Us - The Pearson Family Wagoneer | "The Car" (S2E15) with Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

On this week’s episode, the hosts talk about episode 215, where we see the Pearson family through the perspective of the family car throughout the years and how they’re starting to deal with their grief in the aftermath of Jack’s death. Mandy, Chris, and Sterling reflect on their own family car memories, coin the term "Jack-oquy" to describe Jack’s heartfelt monologues, talk about Rebecca’s fear of bridges, reflect on Jack’s wish for everyone to be “okay,” AND they welcome special guests, Showrunners Elizabeth Berger and Isaac Aptaker, who co-wrote this episode. They share their behind-the-scenes insights and favorite moments from this storyline you won’t want to miss! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing Season 2, Episode 15, The Car. On the day of Jack's funeral, we see the history of the Pearson family, as seen through their family car, The Wagoneer. Plus, Rebecca finds solace with an old friend who reminds her how strong she is in the toughest of circumstances. Mandy Moore, Chris Sullivan. We're back. Sterling, Cabron. It is so good to see you guys.

You guys are a sight for sore eyes, as they say. So let's go with full disclosure here. We're going slightly out of order for our listeners. But they'll hear this after the fact, right? Because we're doing episode 2.15. We're skipping over 2.14 because we wanted to find some time for Dan Fogelman to come and join us because we think it's a very special episode, right? Correct.

But life has been lifing for every. It's been a couple of months since last we've been together in the same space. Yeah, I think we were last together. Was it December? Was it December? November? Wow. November.

Is that true? It was November? End of November. Holy cow. And this is March. March. Golly. March.

March. Jiminy Christmas. I know. Jiminy Christmas, Ghali. Goli. So, so life's been life. And I, because I was hoping we were going to do 214 first. But life has happened in the way that it is.

I want to check in with everybody. Chris, you've been out shooting in Toronto, new show. How you feeling? How's been going? Everything is good. Life, whenever a project ends, I have a little bit of relief. And then there's about 48 hours before I text my entire team and go, so what, so. So am I ever going to work again?

So what are we doing now? So what are we doing now? I don't know, the last few days, my brain has been all over the place, and I'm feeling very ungrounded. So, yeah, yeah, I'm, like, flighty and, like, forgetting things and trying to, like, resettle in my, in myself. I keep injuring myself, which is always a bad sign. Like, tripping or, like, dropping things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and, like, dislocating a knee and pulling. Oh, wow, that's... No, like, injury. Okay. I'm all right. He's okay. Okay, okay. But things, yeah, things feel unsettled.

So, yeah, well... It's in the air. I've been very excited to see you guys. Yeah, me too. Because this is actually very grounding for me. And can I say on our break, I have listened to episodes of this pod, and it's like been a balm for me to hear your voices, to think about the show, how much I love you guys. I was like, wow, this is a listening to like the Isaac and Elizabeth episode. I was like, this is good.

I'm interested. I had the conversation, but it was still revelatory for me here. You're like, oh, I don't remember any of this. Listen, just putting it out there. We know that you've gone through so much, Amanda Lee Moore, like so frigging much. And I just want to know you and your family. We're okay. Yeah.

I'm like, I'm not going to get emotional at this point. We're okay. Yes, we're okay. We're happy. We're healthy. We're safer together. Yes. And it's, yeah, we're putting one foot in front of the other.

I have my in-laws are living with us. Okay. Which sounds like it could be a tricky situation, but we have loved it. I've loved having, like, that energy there. My father-in-law is, unfortunately, not in good health. So it's been lovely to have that time with him and for him to be around the kids. And they lost their home. And so it's like to be able to heal together has been really special.

And so, yeah, so we're all in like a cool little rental and it's an adventure. And my boys are in a new school because their school has gone. Like, it's been a lot of change, but we're okay, we're okay. Is it one of those things for the fellas because they're young? What's the resiliency like for youth versus adults? I think that's the key has been about, like, providing that safety and that structure. So what they come away from this experience with is resilience. It's like, wow, maybe my four-year-old will maybe remember this time,

but hopefully it's just punctuated with like, oh, that time that we lived in a new, house for a while with Papa and Gaga and but we were we came out of it stronger and we were together and my little guy is too and then Lou is five five months old so she yeah but um but they're like they're leaning into this sense of like adventure and um it's been hard I think way harder for us especially like in the beginning to like have these very hard adult conversations in front of little ears but it was just like the insurance adjuster and the thing and the but you These people are here and that, you know, like, those conversations, it was hard to kind of, like, temper that with them. Sure. But now that that's sort of, like, less present, I think it's been a little easier.

Okay. Yeah. And we're good. Thank you. That's always one of the things that's hard to fathom for me when stuff like this happens, you're dealing with the thing that happened. And now you're dealing with paperwork. Yeah. And phone calls. Yeah. And, like, even in this episode, you're, you. You're dealing with the thing that happened. And now you're dealing with paperwork. Yeah. And, and, like, even in this episode, you lose, you lose, in this episode of This Is Us, you lose someone, now you have to plan a funeral. Now you have to, like, deal with appointments. Life continues. Yeah.

Which feels so bizarre. The pause button should be hit for a second, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that it's not, like, that's not available, is so jarring and isolating, too. Like, oh, I would drive, like, half a mile away from my house and the part of Altadena that burned and all of it did.

But, and I'd be a half a mile down the road. And it was like, people were walking to CVS and, like, going about their lives. And I'm like, this is so disorienting. Like, do they know what's happened just up the street? Like, but it, that's what life is, you know? And, yeah, it's strange. Strange times. Strange time.

I texted Dan, I was like, me and Milo, like, both. It's just the most bizarre thing in the world. I was like, are you a, do you have some weird? And we'll talk about 214. I don't talk about it, but how nuts. Yeah, I know. I know. Okay.

Anyway, 215. Let's talk about 2.15. So one of the things that I recognize from listening to the podcast and actually getting feedback, and I agree with it, is that Sterling talks too much. No. What do you mean? I absolutely disagree. Sterling talks too damn much.

That is incorrect. Who gave you that feedback? Who gave you that feedback? I got it. From who? A person. One person. And wasn't your voice?

Okay, wasn't someone under your voice? No. It wasn't anybody. But people were always saying, and I think this is an apropos time to do it. They're like, Mandy Moore always has such salient things to say. What? I wish we got a chance to hear more of her voice. Mandy Moore.

That is too much. No, no. Sterling, first of all, I absolutely disagree with that comment towards you. You are a natural leader. You help drive the conversation. We made us through the conversation. Please don't stop talking. Yeah, please don't.

What if he stopped talking and you and I look at each other, we're like, we don't know what to do. Anyway. Episode 215. Yeah. Was the time. Do you remember that? Yeah. Turns into like a Chris Farley interview.

Do you remember that? Remember the time? Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely disagree. Let's get that one person on the phone right now. Let's go to the phones. Yeah.

We have them on them. But okay, but in all sincerity, when we talked about this a little bit with Isaac and Elizabeth, I believe, who'll pop in, right? But this was a real turning point for Rebecca's character. Yeah. And there's a couple of things that, like, I'll highlight and then I'll pass over because there is, we first, we start off with her in the car by herself. And it's the first image after 214, after the fire, right? and just sort of like, okay, how is this family going to move forward right now? A foursome, that was a fivesome.

And there's two things that I clock in my head pretty immediately. One was the bridge, right, and how she has to close her eyes when she crosses the bridge. And there was something else, too, that was, like, her sort of admitting a certain sort of like frailty or weakness, et cetera. obviously the conversation with Dr. Cain will all get to it soon, right? Because there's a real turning point for the character. Absolutely. And I just wanted to hear you talk about that. Yeah, I mean, I love the idea of telling the story of this family

and as it relates to this car that almost kind of is given personification. Like it is part of the family. It is such an unmistakable part of the story of the Pearson's. And so to kind of like, you know, go back and forth and like show them first acquiring the car and how the car's being used now. And like I love, I loved those sort of vignettes. I will say, personally speaking,

I remember shooting this episode because there was so much lead up to the Super Bowl episode. There was so much lead up, I think for all of us of holding onto this secret of how Jack passes away, that like just the level of relief of that being done, Like, was something I remember feeling watching it. But also, there was a huge piece of, like, because I knew this was a turning point for the character

and, like, the completion of, like, seeing the funeral through and kind of, like, helping her position herself correctly to take this family into this next chapter of their lives. Like, I felt like this episode oddly had a lot of pressure as well. So it's not like I could fully exhale. Sure, sure. And just a little behind-the-scenes thing. So they, you know, they location scout, as we've known as directors and you know as an actor and stuff.

When a director and the powers that be producers and writers and stuff like that, as they're writing these episodes and planning these episodes and looking towards shooting them, they go and scout different locations. Why? On God's Green Earth, would they choose a location for this very special tree? that, like, is Jack's tree, right? That Justin goes and speaks to in the previous episode. I went to the tree. You go to the tree. Milo takes me to this tree in this episode as Rebecca has, like, she's having headaches,

and she goes and get an MRI, and she's waiting for the results of this MRI, and he's sort of, like, just haphazardly, like, pulls off the freeway to this, like, tree that he, he says he loves, which turns out that was just a bogus story. It was close to a pay phone. And anyway, so this, the actual location for this tree was in, like, Balboa Park or Lake Balboa, here in Los Angeles, in the valley, right over the flight path for Van Nuys Airport. Correct. So about every two and a half minutes, there's like a jet landing at this airport, which means for those who don't know that are listening, like, you have to stop for sounds because, like, they don't want you speaking with the jet in the background. And so I'm trying to get through this like incredibly emotional scene with my children.

And I'm like telling them the story of what this tree means to us and that like you can't blame yourself for the death of your father. And you don't have to be the man of the house. Like all of this as it's like like a jet is landing every couple minutes. Because you're also, there's a certain level of concentration and focus that you try to stay in. Yeah. So that you can honor the character and where they are in life. And the plane comes. Yeah.

It totally disrupts you. And you're trying to stay in that place and you're just like... My brain immediately rockets me to six months in the future where I'm standing in an ADR booth by myself in front of a microphone trying to match any kind of emotional intensity. ADR stands for additional dialogue recording, what you would call dubbing, right? So sometimes you'll hear lines.

And it's always funny as an actor when you're watching the show. Oh, you pick it up immediately. The line just comes out of like nowhere. And you're like, that clearly wasn't on the day, you know what I'm saying? Hopefully the audience doesn't pay attention now that I've said this, they're going to be like, that was ADR. For any audience member who does want to pay attention too much, it usually happens when you hear an actor talking and the camera is not on their face, correct. It's on their back. Because that's the easiest way to get information that they should have gotten on the day that they forgot.

But the idea is you try to get your voice. like on production through, right? So that you don't have to come back. Because it's not just matching the voice, it's matching the emotional state of wherever that character was. And doing it in a booth by yourself takes a little bit more manufacturing

than when you're actually in the space. So this is a, so you're out in this field by this tree. At night, which already is like, I'm a like 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. sort of girl. Those are my best hours, you know? Rockstar, Maddie. When the sun goes down, I am, it's already hard for me. My circadian rhythm is like, totally, totally.

So it's like night shoots are a little bit more of a challenge for me. We're shooting with all the kids, it's a little chill, you know, it's like all the things. And then this jet and Ken Olin is directing were already exhausted. And it takes a lot for me to lose my, like, cool. But I remember I was like, this is not okay. I wasn't mad at anyone in particular. I was mad at the situation of like, you guys, we've gone, you know, 18 episodes in the first season.

This is 15 episodes into this, you know, second season. It mattered so much to me. That's why I was, like, frustrated that, like, who chose this place location? Good-looking tree, you know? I was like, is the tree that special? Yeah. I think it was three different trees, by the way.

It was. That's what I was not to say. Like, Randall goes to the tree. Of course. Three different locations. Different tree. Kevin's tree's different. Your tree's different. Was your tree in Memphis? My tree was in Memphis. Yeah, correct. So they had to find a tree back in L.A. that sort of looked like the one you went to in Memphis.

Exactly. But anyway, all of that to say, there was parts of it that had to be re-shot because the sound. The sound was so bad. And re-watching it, I heard some of the planes, the jet, anyway. Oh, you did? Oh, I did. I did. Because I think they wanted to keep the wide shots. I hear you. And it was some of the stuff like that was a little closer in that they were, that they reshot and were able to use. I, of course, still was like, I noticed it immediately. I hear you.

It was beautiful. But it was, yeah, it was just frustrating because I'm like, you guys, we've built up to this. And I want to honor what the character is going through. Because I think it's that first glimmer of Rebecca heating what Dr. Kay said, which again, we will get to. And kind of like owning the fact that like Jack was a superhero. She's never going to be Jack, but she has to find that strength within herself to, like, show up, be there, be present for her family, to help them move forward. And it's not going to be easy.

But, like, letting her kids know, like, you don't have to be this. You don't have to be that. Like, I'm the mom. I'm here to take care of you. You have to trust me. And I just, I wanted to feel like, I wanted to be. So I'm sure you guys can speak to this as well. Like, as actors, I go in sometimes.

like not so locked into like how I imagine things are going to be in if they don't go 100% that way like unfold the way that I've sort of imagined it in my brain like I get all like tangled up in that but I did have some idea of like okay this is how I would love for it to go in a perfect world and it once it veered so off path from that it was like it was just hard for me to like feel like I was able to get it back and be present in the way that like I I wanted for Rebecca. I hear you. Yeah. To remain flexible of mind can be difficult. Yeah. It can be difficult. That's part of that 85% that you and I've talked about where it's like, all right, I'm going to get this down.

And then I've got to leave a lot of room for everybody else's input, everybody else's ideas, everybody else's. Oh, we're not shooting at this location. It's now here. There's a jet flying over? There's a jet flying over. Oh, this isn't, it's now inside and I'm by myself in front of a green screen. Okay, great. That type of flexibility can be hard for me.

I get stuck. I can get stuck a lot. Yeah. We'll be right back with more. That was us. All right. I've had it. Let's talk about travel.

Everyone's got their own idea of the perfect getaway. Mine is to the mountains, I think. A lot of people like warm getaways. I like a cozy. I like a cozy, cold getaway where it's cold outside, but warm inside, maybe with a little hot tub out on a deck somewhere. Oh, I love that. Or what about a wellness trip? Yes. Picture this. You're staying at an Airbnb near a spa retreat, morning yoga on a private deck.

Yes. Mmm, a fresh smoothie situation in the kitchen, total relaxation. Or maybe you're the type that would rather be in a cozy cabin like Chris. Like me. Yeah, sitting by a fire with your family, just soaking everything in. So last season, we're about to do it again. We're going to take the kids up to Big Bear. Get a little snow action.

And get a little snow, put them on something that slides and push them down a mountain. I love that. And we found a nice, cozy little spot, like I said, a little hot tub on the deck. We did the same thing last season at Lake Arrowhead. I love that. That feels like a great little family tradition to start. And here's the thing. While you're off making those kinds of memories, your home could be doing the same for someone else.

So why not list your place on Airbnb while you're away? Maybe there's a family looking for a spot just like yours or someone just needing a place that feels right. You call the shots. You decide when to host, how to set up your space, who stays. Airbnb makes it super simple. So while you're off enjoying your trip, your place is working for you. So what's the perfect getaway? The big game, a quiet retreat, a trip back to a place that means something special.

Whatever it is, hosting on Airbnb could be the way to make it happen. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Let me ask you this, man, anymore, because this is also from the top of the episode. You guys go in. You need a new family car, right? You guys agree that we're not going to let them, like, gouge us. We're going to get something sensible.

It's going to be fine. You know, you see the Waggeneer. Waggeneer is shiny. It's beautiful. Kids love it. Kids love it. or not, my man, Mel immediately tries to, like, give it to you. Like, dude, we're not in the market for the Wagoner, right?

And Mel's like, all right, well, you know, we got some used stuff outside. Everybody goes outside. You're looking at the car. The kids jump into the Wagoner. Jack looks back, sees the kids in the Wagoner. He's like, yo, Mel, can I talk to you in your office? And Rebecca's like, wait a minute. Are we not going to, you know, get the used car?

You didn't even go look at it. And he's like, just, you know, we're going to have a conversation. You're like, but babe, da-da-da. And so this is also part of the transition, too, like, I think. And, you know, it's the 80s, it's the 80s right now. But it's sort of the transition of this interesting thing. And I hearken back to a time when I used to go on road trips with my family. And everybody would say, like, my uncle would get out or my aunt,

and they'd be like, everybody stay in the car while they go to handle the transactions or, like, get in the hotel rooms and everything. And it's like, you are with the kids in terms of that. Yeah. Right? And I'm curious, like, because you have modern woman, Mandy Moore. You're strong, I almost call you strong black woman, but you're strong woman. I'm curious, I'm curious just in terms of like playing Rebecca and sort of like finding the sort of like, well, I'm relegated to this, but Jack, oh goodness, are you sure, Jack to like, from that to like how, like, did you see that as part of the arc?

Was it a frustrating thing? Or you're like, no, this is how their relationship is gone. It wasn't frustrating because I just hearken back to my own childhood. And I was like, this was the roles that my parents assumed. It was like, you know, dad would have handled the car negotiation and mom would have like wrangled the kids. Right. So I think it only takes, again, being a parent myself now, to look back through a different lens and go like, oh, that's interesting. But I also feel like in 1989, 1992, whenever this was, like, that's how things traditionally unfolded. I would say in a lot of households, most families, a lot of families.

So it's only now that we look back, I think, and go like, oh, this is, why would, why does Jack have to go on there with him? Did you guys have a car in your family that was like this, like the Waggoner? Like, do you remember a car that, that spanned a length of time? Not a, we had a, we were a van family. And we had a Ford Aerostar that I learned to drive on. Yeah. Yeah, like the seats would come in and out, like of that. It was like it kind of became like our like spare car. My mom and dad, we had another car as well. But that was it was like a sort of cherry red Ford Arrow Star sort of glittery. Yeah. That was a car that we had for like too long probably. Okay. So we had a couple of family cars. But it's family like outside of the extended family. My mom had a Toyota car. corolla that was hers. Then she gave to my older sister. My older sister gave to her

our cousin, our first cousin, and then our first cousin gave it to her younger sister. The corolla was in our family in total 30 years. Wow. Because that's how the Japanese. I was going to say that's quite an endorsement. They don't F around. So that's the car. But the car that we had in our house. So when I was born, or maybe, yeah, my dad had, well, I wasn't born. He was, it's in 1979. He had a 1979 pink El Dorado Cadillac with pink leather interior. Vinyl top, eight-track plan. Michael McDonald was his favorite. So I heard a lot of that. And that was a jam. But only had that for a little while until we had, this is very African-American of me, we moved to a Fleetwood Cadillac, right? And the Fleetwood was in our, that's the car that I learned to drive on.

So when dad passed away, mom has the car, and we shared that car all the way through high school. And she had it through college, et cetera, probably had it for about 14, 16 years. Wow. That's cool. Chris? Yeah, yeah, cars, my dad is a car person. Yes. He has a classic car.

I have a classic car. My brother has a classic car. Side note, real quick, I'm going to let you finish your story because when I found out that you got nominated for your first Emmy Award, you were working with your dad on a car in the garage. And I told you that you had gotten a car. What? Yeah, yeah. You were the one that told him. Yeah, yeah.

I got him up and I was like, I was literally under the car. I was under the car. My phone started buzzing. Like, like, what is it going on? And I checked and Sterling had texted, and right after that was Chrissy. And then the group text went off. And I was like, oh, something's happening today. Because being nominated for it was so far out of like my realm of like that I didn't even know today was the day.

that happened. Yes, sir. And so I had to do a bunch of press from the garage. And so I zoomed into a bunch of interviews from the garage covered in sweat, gargoy's. But yeah, growing up, we were also a van family. And we filtered through a couple of like the MPV or the Previa. Oh, I remember the Previa? I can see it. It's like kind of a weird snout. Yeah, a real ugly car and then once but once we got through like trashing a couple of vans there was a moment where my parents i think had like this this jack and rebecca moment where it's like all right it's time for an adult car and what was it it was a 1990 not far off from that wagon ear because the wagoneer is also a 90 and 89 90 uh Toyota land cruiser so the same type of vehicle but it was like the adult car yeah and we had that

car, yeah, for like 20, 25 years. When my parents sold it, it had 300,000 miles off. Yes, sir. Again, I have all, like, as I was watching this episode, I have all these flashbacks of things that happened with that car, the places we went in that car, the people had kissed in that car, you know, like the dances I went to in that, you know, like the driving movies, that opened up the back gate, like all of these things. And it was, and I've always, and I've always, I don't know, there's something, the idea of a family car has always just been in me because of my dad's affection for cars and his, you know, my, my, I still have my first car that I got, the Mustang, I've told you guys this story, you know, that I, I had this car,

I sold it in the year 2000, and then when we came back here to do this as us, I was like, I have like people now who, who, and my lawyer gave me the number of private, investigator and the private investigator found the car and bought the car back, restored the car, it's in the garage that I'll keep, it's like a family heirloom now. Yeah. So yeah, there's something about the family car that, that resonates. Yeah, for me specifically. Yeah, this whole episode was, was, and of course, I'd have the Wagoneer, which is now the Waggoner is in your home. Our family car, our daily driver, drop bear off this morning. And you knew you were going to get it like a meet, like you were like, you had your eyes on it. Well, again, it was like,

a realization, I'm like, oh, at the end of this, they're going to sell those. Yeah. Because Rachel, Rachel saw it. Yeah. And she doesn't have the same love for classics that I do. But when she saw it on the show, she was like, that is a cool car. It is a cool car. And I, like, stored that away.

And I was like, okay, all right. Okay. Yeah, and then we sorted it out at the end of the show. That's awesome. Yeah. So, wait, let's, let's talk about a little bit of the show. You mean this is us? You mean this is us?

That's the one that I was talking about. Let's talk about it. There is. So there's flashes. Of them, yes, buying the car and then they jump into the kids going to their first concert, which introduces the concept of Rebecca not loving bridges. That's correct. Yeah. You guys are going to go check out my main man, Weird Al-Yankovic.

That's right. Weirdo-Yenkovich was a big deal. Still is, man. He still is. Thank you. I apologize. How very dare you? I apologize.

And it's so funny too because it's the bridge and you're like, oh, I can't look at the bridge and he holds your hand. And he's like, guys, maybe we just give mom a little bit of quiet. But Randall starts talking about, do you know what the fear of bridges is called? Like, I love, I love this. I memorized. I memorized all the phobias. I've memorized all the phobias. I can't remember what it's called.

Jafarophobia. Jafarophobia. Jifarophobia. I just thought of Aladdin. I was like Jafarovia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sweet Randall. Whoever's naming phobias, by the way. What a cool job. Cool job, also they're screwing it up completely. Oh, yes, I remember that. We talked about this on that other podcast. Yes, we did. On Darcy Cardin's podcast, because none of them sound like the thing that you're afraid of.

No. Agoraphobia is like fear of public spaces, whatever. Exactly. Can I just like that the Milo and the kids singing, la la la la la la la la la la la sanya was hilarious. I totally forgot about that until it was great I was like man weird all in the lyrics he really nails it they went for it with gusto too yeah they did and it was so just the interest just seeing you like it wasn't because I know you right and you're a wonderful actor I was like many more is really acting like she's scared to go across it I'm like a bridge this is a thing okay I have some grace for people

but I'm like you're just in the car I just saw a story I'm not sure where it is it might be in Florida. There's a lot of long bridges in Florida. Sure, sure. Across the keys. Yeah, lots of water. There is a service that will, for people who are afraid to drive across bridges. And what do they do? You park your car at one end and they come and meet you and drive you across the bridge and offer you support. Like this Jafarophobia is like paralyzing for some people. And there was a whole story about this woman who couldn't do it. And so there's literally a service

that you can call, who will come, you can even make an appointment. Okay. And they will come and help you get across. No, no, no, no. Oh, no, I didn't think you were. No, no. But hot take, stop making fun of people.

Hot take. My apologies. I wasn't making fun, but it was hard for me to reconcile. That's what I'm saying. Those kinds of bridges, more understandable. Listen, if it's like Indiana Jones type shit. Like this is a little, you know what's, wouldn't slats.

It swings. Yeah. I'd be a little more freaked out. I was like, this is a little bridge in Pasadena. That should get me, bro. I want to tell about like, but just sort of flashing between the two timelines. I want to take one timeline at a time. So maybe we do, we either do the funeral timeline or the one beyond that.

Well, we can finish doing, I guess, all the other timelines that are juxtaposed in there, right? So we saw them buying the Wagonier. We saw them going to the concert. Then after that is what we mentioned earlier with the tree when Rebecca's awaiting from an MRI because she's been having headaches and dizzy and Jack sort of lovingly takes her from the doctor to wait to get like a phone call from the doctor to this park at night and it's snowing and you know he just gives one of his like jack soliloquies that like makes everything all better a jackiqui a jack a quack yeah yeah I like that all right he's also has these one-on-ones with the kids or at least he has a one-on-one with Kate and he has a one-on-two with Kevin and Randall right um the The Kevin and Randall one is he's teaching Randall how to drive the car. Randall's very, you know, cautious to begin with. Kev's in the backseat like, yo man, are we going to get to wherever we need to go anytime soon?

He's like, hey, that's my first time behind the wheel. Just give me something. And then they just start rising each other. He's like, you're still going to be 40 living in their parents' house, whatever. And he's like, at least I would have enjoyed the affections of a woman's body. Something like that, you know? And they just start messing with each other. Randall almost gets into an accident and like could have been really, really costly.

Both of them at the same time are like, oh, we shouldn't have done that. Yeah, dad's bummed. And Jack is like, get out. Like, okay, and he's like, you can walk home. Like, it's five miles. He's like, I don't care. Yeah. He's home.

He's working on the car, whatnot. They walk back. And they are truly apologetic. Like, you have that look of like, you know, maybe I messed up. They're like, no, no, we messed up. Yeah. We're sorry. It's never going to happen again.

Then Jack breaks into like, you know, me and my brother, when you're your age, we had each other's back, man. Like, I can't understand it. And then you see him both go like, whoa, dad never talks about this. He never talks about Mickey, you know what I'm saying? It's like, what's there to talk about? You know, he went to the war, he died, that's that. But when we were your age, and I love how, like, mine was like, look, yeah, I don't, but I need to make this point. This is how important this point is.

You know, because there's going to come a point. He starts to talk to everybody. Eventually, he says it to Rebecca earlier, right? Like, you know, you're going to be around longer than I'm going to be around, right? And he tells you at the tree, like, I just don't want to be in the ground. Let me be out in nature. Like, that would be something that would be nice for me, right? He tells the fellas, I'm not going to be around all the time,

and you're going to be able to look back on this time in your life, and it's just going to be the two of you and your sister that know what you guys went through together. Like, you guys need to start to have each other's back because I can't do it forever. Right. He has the same conversation when he's talking to Kate, who's ditching school to go and meet Atlantis Morris.

Atlanta's Morris. Yes, yes. To see Atlanta's Morris said. But he calls her Atlantis, which is really funny. He does some good dad stuff in that whole scene, right? Because even when Atlanta starts playing, like, in my 49-year-old ears, I was like, he's not going to like this music. No.

Even as she played it, I was like, I used to like this music. And do I like this music? Yes. I was like, I used to love this. No, no, it's classic. Of course it is. Of course, it is, don't get me wrong. It is, don't get me wrong.

Yes. But it has, it is a very specific gun with a very specific aim. Sure. Of like, emotional frotness that I'm like, I'm not that kind of fraught anymore. You're like, I'm not there anymore? Most music that hits the zeitgeist does so because it connects with youth. Right. And what youth are going through at that time.

You know what I'm saying? So it's very specific. Yeah. Springsteen's not connecting with the zeitgeist now, but he did that. he was that you know what i'm saying sure and it's why we love the stuff that we listened to when we were 13 to 20 yes dad right let me tell you about pink pony club okay pink pink pony club uh and the kids did i don't even have anything so she's going to go see lads nobody never ever comes to their town so he's

you know she's like you're gonna take me back to school's like no i'm gonna take you to the record so you can see this girl. And she's like, great, great, great, great. And in the conversation, she plays a little Atlanta. She's like, it's okay, let me play some real music for you. And my African-Americanist did not recognize Spring's thing immediately, but then they sort of referenced it. And I was like, okay, I did Springsteen.

And they're sort of vibing off of music together. And he says, this is something that you should really consider. You know what I'm saying? Like you have a gift, and I can't remember how the whole thing goes. But he has something again about, I'm not going to be here. all the time. Doesn't he in that conversation? But just sort of supporting her and giving her the wind underneath her sails to say that

this is something okay for you to pursue. Yeah. Right? And sometimes it takes that encouragement for us who are in the arts or whatnot. We had this conversation. You said your family was with you from Jump Street, you guys were supportive or whatnot. But if you haven't seen anybody else do it in your family, it can feel so far away in the theory. Like, how does this even happen? But somebody's saying like, hey, you have a Because she winds up telling him, like,

I'm starting to write my own stuff a little bit, you know? And like, I don't know if it was a conversation that she would have with mom. No. No, no, no. There was too much animosity and weirdness about music and competitive. Like, you do it and like, I don't want to hear how you do it. Like, it's just sort of something I want to keep to myself.

But she shares it with that and he's like, yeah, this is something that you should consider, right? My, it was interesting watching this episode now, you know, years later, thinking, I wonder if Jack felt maybe not, Maybe not burdened is the right word. But, like, for him to have these conversations, granted, they were at very different times. But, like, so often to be like, I'm not going to be here forever. Like, get your together, essentially.

Like, that's what he was saying to all, to everybody in the family. Like, you and your brother and sister need to figure this out. Kate, like, you got to do this for you. Like, I'm not going to be the cheerleader here for you forever. And it just made me wonder. I was like, gosh, I wonder if Jack felt like this obligation, this responsibility. I mean, it obviously came so natural for him. But, like, to have that awareness of, like, making sure those that he loved

recognized, I'm, this isn't forever. Like, you know, never know what life is going to bring. Like, to have that sort of foresight was interesting. But I was like, wow, I wonder if he felt that. Is that this episode, too, where he has that conversation with you, with Rebecca? Yeah, he does. It's the same one, right? About, like, you're going to live forever.

Yes, that's with the tree outside while she's waiting for the news from the It's such an interesting way to frame it. It turns him into a little bit of a mystical character because it's like... Agreed. It comes right after 214. Yeah. And you're like, okay, he had a sense. Even though, granted, there was, you know, this was well, obviously, well, well, well.

Like, I feel like a year or two or something before that, but yeah. Right, right, right. But it was just interesting. It is. Side, I have these conversations with my fellas who will bicker with each other from time to time or whatever for your difference but they bicker and I was like fellas you guys are the greatest gift to each other that you will ever have in life right so like if you can actually pay attention to that and instead of missing it like life's going to keep going right you can do it

together or you can do it sort of like messing with each other so I encourage is that something that you keep telling them over and over again because yeah you're you're trying to find that moment when it hits yeah i think it's it's it's it's like chinese water torture like eventually it's gonna make its way into the thing right but you you kind of have to repeat it how often do you torture them hmm not that often like you know it'll be probably be something that happens on a quarterly basis like where they'll have a blow up yeah i'm like hey man this is your little brother yeah or hey man this is your big brother like i don't know why you guys are going at each other like this but you really are all that you have like once mom and i are gone right you know

So, yeah. I even say that to our guys. Do you? A four-year-old and a two-year-old. When, you know, Gus just like pushes Ozzy over, I was like, first of all, Gus, Ozzie's going to be bigger than you soon and he's going to beat the crap out of you. But I'm, I'm like, you guys, that's your little brother. He loves you.

He wants to be just like you. You guys are going to be best friends one day. You're not even two years apart. Right. So I totally understand that, that idea of like. Such an odd human, because I'm in the same situation. So I wonder what, it's such a strange way for human beings to naturally be. Yeah.

To just resist. Yeah. Resist the connection. But maybe, I don't know. Maybe it's because they are so concerned with their connection to us that there's a vying competition thing. Maybe. Yeah, man, they were on Rachel this morning.

As soon as somebody, as soon as somebody is like, hey, mom, can you hold me? No, you hold me. Oh, God, hold me. No, and it's like this, and they get violent with her. And she can't, like, and he, bear is so strong. That's a big bear. That she, like, can't fuck them off. Like, has to like.

You see Rachel on the ground with, like, kids crawling over. That's what was, she was in bed. She hadn't even gotten up yet. And they, and Bear was like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go Cuddle Mom. And I was like, she jumped out of her chair. She just started running towards Rachel. I'm going to get there first. And they both were on her, like, headbutting each other.

And she's like, guys, guys, knock it off. And I just, I stare at it. And I'm like, what is, what is this? Yeah. What is this? You know how much Ryan Michelle would love to feel like that sort of attention? That ship has sailed. All my kids don't like me.

She's convinced of that. But like, they love her. Of course. Mom is on a pedestal forever. Forever and ever. Forever and ever. More that was us after these words from our sponsors.

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All right, so we're in this timeline. There is also, I think, yeah, okay, sorry, different timeline. You have the whole thing about my husband being able to see the ruining, so let's go to that end. We'll go to the day of the funeral, of Jack's funeral. You mentioned that like the show opens with Rebecca waiting in the car for the kids. Like she already is sort of like, she's by herself. Yes. And you can tell that she's a little impatient like, we're running late.

Yes. The kids wander out and she, you know, they, they basically allude to the fact that, like, they're like, mom, that does a service, doesn't start for like an hour or two or something. She's like, I want to get there early. Yeah. And so you're sort of left wondering, like, what is the deal? Like, what is there to get there early for?

There's a few things that happened in the course of that day with the kids. Like, you see Randall sort of sit in the front seat of the car on the way to the funeral. Yeah. And you see Kev clock it for like a half a second. Yeah. Right? Like, oh, you're sitting in the front seat now, right? And throughout the day, Rand was like, Mom, we should probably get to the thing to go to the repass, whatever.

And he's like, okay, yeah, sure, sure. And then he's there. He's greeting all the people saying like, oh, thank you so much for coming. Dad, really appreciate it. Even before, Kev's having a tough time with his tie. He's like, I can help you with your tie if you want to. And he's like, now I don't need to wear one. He's like, you're not going to wear a tie on dad's funeral.

And so there's this moment that Kev has at the after, what's it called? The reception. The reception. Thank you. And he sees Jack's watch on Randall's wrist. And my man is like, yeah, who told you you could get the watch? He's like, I asked mom and she said it was okay. I like doing, I like doing it now's work.

I asked mom and she said it was okay. He's like, dude, you don't just get to become like the man of the house all of a sudden. Like who do you think you are? And it's an interesting thing to see because it's a lifelong thing that we know plays itself out into the future. Yeah. Yeah. Right. On the other side is Kate saying, like, why did dad die to mom?

Right. And you explained like the smoke inhalation and everything. And you're like, so he died because he went back in for the dog. And you're like, I don't know. Like you're not making it a black and white thing. Sure. Right? And she's like, no, it is a black and white thing because none of us were in the house as long as he was.

And we're all alive. And he went back in for this dog. now he's dead, right? And you can see she's having... She makes the correlation. Like, if he didn't go for the dog, I don't want this dog now. This dog just represents the reason my dad passed away.

Exactly. Yeah, it's tough. And to sort of go back to what you were saying about Kevin and Randall, like, it's just interesting because it just escalates again all of these things that have gone unsaid thus far when, you know, Kevin's like, I wouldn't have let him go back. And Randall's like, you weren't there. You weren't there, big dog.

You're never there. So I guess we'll never know that. Yeah, exactly. I know. I was like, these guys really know how to cut right to the quick. There's something that somebody said, and this is not a plug, but this is interesting, because on Paradise, I have this big argument with the president. And somebody on my social said, if there's one thing Dan Fogam was going to do is have

Sterling Brown arguing with the white man. And so this is just the younger version of us. But it made me think of the argument that comes in season four? Or five. Was it five? Five? I feel like it was COVID. Was it five?

On the lawn? Yeah. I think that was five with you and Justin, yeah. Lord, have mercy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We get that one. We get there. That joint was, so it was just the echo of that.

Like I saw, like, the foundation of it coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And hot take, this is where we learn that it's all Kate's fault. Hot take. Hot take. Kate. Actually, it was Louis' fault, right? Louis the dog.

Louis the dog. Yeah. Jack's affection for the dog. That's right. So before we get to that final scene, though, we get to the funeral and then, like, the, what do you call Dr. Kay's function within our show? Who, what is he to us? He's the wise old owl that like Kevin makes fun of for William to be, but he really is. The Greek chorus.

Yeah, he is. Yeah. I see his freaking face, like I just get a little like, come on, man, give me something. I know you're about to give me something. It's funny. Taylor said the same thing when we were watching the episode the other day. He's like, it's just like every time you see him, you're like, oh, thank God. I think God he's back.

You know what it feels like? Oh, good, an adult. Yeah. Oh, good. There's an adult here. Yeah, he'll solve it. He'll know what to do. Yeah.

And he really, you know, meets Rebecca. in a place that, like, it's, it's so necessary, right? Like, we've not seen Rebecca, I mean, we've seen, like, hints of her breaking and stuff, but she recognizes she obviously has to be. I mean, the previous episode, when she goes to tell the kids what happened, and McKell greets her outside, he's like, no, no, no, no, no. You can't break apart, because if you break apart, I'm going to break apart. So I feel like that ethos is what she's been carrying with her for the last 10 days,

however long it's been since he passed away. And seeing Dr. Kay, I think, and he was so unexpected that he would be there, that he would show up with his wife to, you know, pay his respects, that it's almost just like an invitation for her to like take a deep breath and a relief to sort of confide in somebody like, he was the good part of this equation. I'm weak. I don't know how to do what he did. I don't know how to show up in the way that he did. I don't know how to get forward. Like, I'm not going to be able to. And for someone, yeah, that can see in you, what you don't see in yourself, is such a gift. And it's exactly what Rebecca needed. It's exactly like he serves this function for this family at every major sort of turn that they find themselves at, right? In the hospital with the babies, this is what he said to Jack.

Now the Jack has passed away. Like, I feel like it's, you're right. He is the Greek court. He's a witness. He's a witness. And he's, he is the function that, that Jack is talking about with siblings. It's like, these are the people who are going to know everything. Right. Who are going to know exactly what you went through, know exactly what you've been through. And Dr. Kay has that quality for the family, for the entire family. And he, she mentions, like, I have been following him around all day because I wasn't there when he died. And you're like, oh, that makes

sense because it's like she wants to be there before the urn gets there she wants to carry the earn with her she feels this this debt of responsibility she owes jack something she didn't give him in the end and i can't i was like oh rebecca it's like when you make that realization it's like i just you want to hug her and be like are what are you talking like i understand and i want to have compassion for that but no no like that this is what happens in life sometimes this is how things unfold. It's so unfortunate. It's so devastating, but, like, you can't carry that around with you. You can't feel like you failed him because of that. And Dr. Kay says as much and also tells her, like, you, like, I see the strength in you that you don't see in yourself. And also, just to let you

know, your husband had fear, too. He used to come and visit me when, like, when your kids were babies. Because you thought he was fearless. Yes. And he's like, no. He would come, like he just would show up unannounced in my office. All the time. All the time. I was a very busy man. And here's this guy who is so afraid. Of so much.

And I, again, I think that was a revelation for Rebecca, too. Like, oh, he did? Like, he seemed to know everything. And it was so seamless for him, effortless. So two things are interesting to me, because we'll get to Vegas is our next episode and this sort of contrast between Jack and Randall, I find very fascinating, where Randall almost overshares his fears with his wife, if such a thing is possible. And maybe, like, in terms of, like, she almost feels burdened sometimes by like his constant

sort of thing. And Jack is the absolute opposite. Yeah. You know? And it's like how we become the parents or the people that we are, sometimes it is in direct correlation to emulate or to sort of like go in the opposite direction. That was a thought that I had in that moment. Also, just you sort of being able to link, can we just sit here for a moment and just lay

on somebody? Like, it's almost like you knew that you can't put that on the kids necessarily right now because they have their own things that they're sort of grappling with. Right? Like you have those moments as parents and I know you guys are, you guys, young, but it's like, oh, I just want my kid to come and hug me. Like, you think it's always supposed to go in that direction. Sometimes you really do.

But that's not the moment. That's not the moment. And understanding that. And I think like... And having somebody to just do that. Yeah. To hold you. Yeah.

Such a beautiful moment. Yeah. And the quiet and the stillness of the, you know, what she's sort of left in the reception with kids and family and, like, the reality of what her life is right now. Yeah. So important, I think. for her to have that moment. Yeah.

So let's go earlier, because we're going to go to the scene at the tree in a second, though. But in the car, a couple of things happen because Jack is saying, like, we flash back 10 days, eight, nine days, whatever it is. He's like, I got a secret for you guys on Saturday.

I'm going to do something fun. You're like, what is it? He's like, oh, don't worry about it. Because Jack, Jack don't be telling nobody nothing. Yeah, I guess it was so less than a week later. I'll tell you when I'm ready to tell you. Like, it's less than a week ago, but he'd already bought the 10.

tickets. And so there's two things that happened. Like he was drinking coffee at one in the thing. His coffee cup is still in the car right there. So like the little echoes of like just a second ago. Yeah. My husband was drinking that. And you early in the episode, you saw the spring thing tickets, right? So you go ahead, you take the kids to the infamous scene where the plane keeps going. Go for it. The infamous scene. And she brings him to the tree and basically explains this. significance of this tree and that this is the, gosh, this is the turning point, right? Of like the time before dad and after dad and like they're in this together and she doesn't need

them to be, neither of them need to figure out who to be the man of the house. Like they just need their kids. 17 year old boys, man. Yeah. Just be that. Just be that. Yeah. And, you know, and it wasn't your fault, Kate, like she basically puts all of that to bed.

and like finds this air of strength in that moment to like, you know, say like, and you know what, dad got us tickets and I think we should go. And this is like we're, we are, this is us, we're this unit now and we're going to do this together. Come hell or high water, we're going to get through this. And yeah, I mean, I feel like that sort of is like sets this family off. Say the part about going over the bridge. What do you mean?

Because at the end, you guys get in the car, you're going to the thing. You have to cross the same bridge that you're going to the weird Al Yankovic concert. Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you see Rebecca take a... See, I'll be watching you, Mandy Moore. You see Rebecca take this breath and just sort of be like, this is what we're doing. And you see that Waggoner with its front headlight out, right? It may be a little bruised because we'll come to what we hear Jack ultimately say to Mel

in that conversation that everybody else was outside. He's like, look, male, I see my family in this car. Hold, let me jump. Your dad had this way of ruining movies. That's at the tree. Yeah. He had this way of ruining movies. As soon as it came on, he knew who was going to end up with who.

He knew who killed whatever. It's like, he always knew. It's like, and you were talking about this mythic figure who just had this sort of like sight, right? And so like all those conversations about, Kate, I think you should do music. Fellas, I think you guys should have each other's back. It's like, I'm, I see it.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. You say that, like, he always has a way of doing it. So then the car goes over, like, it's a beautiful moment. But, like, him talking to Mel about what he needs for his family. And this is where Brown gets a little for clumped, honestly, because it's such a simple thing, but such a powerful thing.

I need them to be okay. Yeah, I know. It gets me, too. It's like, wow, because that's like, it doesn't feel like a tall order. You know, you're like, oh, that seems doable. And I think that's like the advice that Rebecca is heating in that moment. Like, we are going to be okay. That's right.

I'm going to make sure of it. We're going to make sure of it as a cohesive unit together. And they are, right? We know that. You see, they're going to have some spills. They're going to have some dings. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's going to go through some things.

But I just, I need them to be safe. I need them to be taken care of. I need my kids to be okay. I need my family to be okay. So Mel, I can't afford this card, but you're gonna help me figure it out. That was an interesting turn, too. That was a moment of like, and I need you to help me.

Yeah. Which is a real vulnerable thing for Jack. Sure. To ask this stranger. Yeah. Yeah. To help them figure it out. It's good right.

Mel had a kind face. I was like, Mel was gonna come through it. I wish I was going to come through it. I knew that actor's name. He's a... He's a comedian. He's hysterical. Yeah.

I think we have Isaac and Elizabeth with us to sort of chat through this episode that they wrote. Beautiful. I loved... Anytime I saw their names on an episode, I was always like, oh, here we go. I mean, it's like, you know, along with K,

along with KJ, there were some OGs of the show. And obviously, Isaac and Elizabeth became our showrunners very early on in the first season, but it was like they knew the DNA of the show so thoroughly. They were our leaders. So anytime I saw that they were, it was their episode I was like, oh, this is going to be a good one.

Well, let's have a little chat with us. Let's chat with them. We'll take a break and we'll be back right after this with more. That was us. All right, we are back. We recently spoke with Isaac and Elizabeth. Yes, we do. Our showrunners, but they've come back to join us to talk about 215.

Yes. One of the many episodes that they wrote them very selves with them very hands thank you guys for coming back we appreciate you yeah we're thrilled the episode is called the car the car do you still own that car you it's out in the parking lot right now it's my daily driver that's so cool that's your regular car i drive it every day i take it all zipped up that's amazing we got it all we got it sorted mandi told me about the car before i bought it she's like just see no it's real hard to drive And I was like, I was like, what does that mean? And I got in it and I'm bouncing all over the road left, right, left, right, left, right.

And it turns out that whoever was, never had it aligned. Oh, really? So it was literally pigeon-toed. And so if you turned left, the car was like, wah! And I got it aligned at it like. It's fine. Well, we crashed that thing. Yeah.

Swerved it. Yeah. It's all over the place. Anyways, it's doing great. Good. I'm glad. It says hello. Yes.

When, at what point in the writers' room process were you assigned this episode? How did it break around the car? What was the idea to kind of make that the, I don't know what you call it, the fulcrum that everything rotated on. We definitely call one of the perks of like, obviously Dan got first dibs on episodes and then we got second dibs. So we called this one pretty early. I remember that.

We were like, obviously he's writing Jack's death and then we want the aftermath. The fall. Wow. The origin is that a beautiful writer who is no longer with us named Jazz Waters had this idea. which was to sort of tell an episode sort of based around the family car and tell the life of a family through their car. And she had this incredible idea and it was so relatable to all of us. I mean, I think everyone, so many of us had that memory of like your parents buy the new car.

And no matter what the car is, like in my childhood, it was like an old Volvo, you know, but it just seems like the promise of all of these adventures and that kind of thing and that excitement was so visceral for so. many of us and we we just thought it was such a beautiful, relatable idea that she had and that that was it and then and we loved the idea like that, you know, the previous episode is so emotionally explosive and sort of punches you in the face with how intense it is. And we felt like collectively our audience would need that exhale that you need when somebody dies and that was sort of that was sort of the idea that like let's all take

And it's still a really emotional episode, but let's all take that breath together and let's kind of mourn together and sort of make a plan to move forward both for this family and sort of also for the series. Yeah, and also, I mean, it's an episode about Rebecca, like literally and metaphorically getting into the driver's seat

and taking on these kids by herself. And so sort of making the car this very literal manifestation of that felt like it set up this lovely ending where Mandy is sort of taking on these three kids and she's determined to take them into the future without Jack. Yeah. It's a beautiful metaphor to focus on. I have a love of automobiles.

Obviously, I have a love for this automobile. I still have the first car I ever bought. It's a Mustang that I sold. You bought it back, right? Yeah, I remember this story. Sold it, regretted it instantly, and 10 years later, found it. I remember the first. family car that my parents had that that was like a literal family member yeah yeah and and they

drove it to 300,000 miles wow and when they sold it it was like what why do we need the four grand that bad like right you know what I mean yeah like but but why also why hold on to it the cars are just very interesting things because they're they are they are one of the inventions of the human race that is a human like it involves care it involves it takes fuel it has a heart it beats blood it has it has blood running through its system like like it's and and so this that was good that was like full don draper car commercial right this this but this car and i can only this car in particular the 1990 grand wagoneer holds a place in people's minds even if they've never had Yeah, there's a nostalgia quotient.

Yes. And it sits in this sweet spot of like, it's not like a classic car, like it's not unattainable and it's not, it's not irresponsible, like it's not a hot rod, it's not a Model T, but it's also not new. It has a, the newest thing on it, it has a digital clock, you know what I mean? And I get so many people having nothing to do with the show who need to talk to me about this car who need to touch it who need to photograph it who have questions about it happened twice today already happens every time i go out every stoplight like it's it's and it's and it connects people

it's it's a fascinating thing side note did people ever recognize you in the car like what what are once it's happened and did they ask if it was the car yes once once people recognized me and the car were like is this the yeah um but yeah so it's it's it's It's a fascinating, and it's also such a subtle connector in our show. Like, there it is in the background, there it is in the driveway. Like, it's always there. Yeah. Yep.

As we get into the teenagers, there it is under a tarp in the driveway. Yeah, yeah. Like the eras that this vehicle has seen. Well, let me ask this question, because you guys were talking about the fulcrum and about sort of Rebecca taking, like being in the driver's seat, sort of like steering things forward. Because that is a, that's a huge sort of turn in our show. Because I think it's almost like when you watch, you guys familiar with all my sons, you know,

like I feel like it's always the mom's play, to be honest with you. People talk about Joe Keller and Chris Keller and there's father, you know, but like really it revolves around the mom. And I think that's sort of the secret sauce of Mandy Moore in our show too. Like, you know, there's Jack and his passing away and there's the big three and the kids or whatever. But the person that is holding this thing all together who's played herself from 16 to damn near 90 years old is is mandy more as Rebecca and I'm curious like in terms of like what happens 215 on like because I was asking you

Mandy at one point in time Mandy caught a lot of vitriol Rebecca caught a lot of vitriol for like you better respect that good man he's so good to you and da da da da da and even chrissey was saying that like you know Toby's great or the toby Kate thing was a little bit different sometimes because sometimes they were like I don't trust this dude right you know You know, I mean, those sorts of things. He's too horny. He was so horny. He was so horny.

That's a little less horny. First few episodes, shockingly wild. Whoa, to me, shot. Let's bring it down. But we did, we just went through the episode where he clears the desk. Because he came in and said she needed to talk. And he's like, I thought, are we not? Are we not doing this thing?

But in terms of, like, that how things change with regards to Rebecca being the fulcum of the past or whatnot. Like, was there, I'm sure there was a conscientious. thought about like, all right, we need to establish that like now it's her. And like whether or not she's comfortable with it or not comfortable with her at all times, I'm sure that's going to vary from time to time over time. But like, talk to us just a little bit about like, all right, there was Jack. This is now Rebecca's time. Oh, yeah, 100%. I think that this episode is that turning point in the series. And I think like it's really intentional that Rebecca talks in the episode about being unsure if she wanted kids. And Jack was the one who saw and really, and she

is so glad she had them. But now she's left with that. these three, and it's like, it is all on her from here on in. And, you know, there's that scene with Dr. Kay where he gives her what she needs to get in that driver's seat and face her fear of bridges, but really, of course, much more than bridges. And, yeah, and just be there and raise her children. This is a, Dr. Kay is an interesting segue into this. We've talked about it a lot about the population of our show as far as the actors go. And it's completely populated with people.

people from television history. Oh, yeah. Is that intentional? Television goats. Television goats that make it feel, but it's so, like, seamlessly done. But it makes it feel like this is my, you're watching, this is my world. I know these people. Maybe I can't place what.

From Brad Garrett and Katie's, which was so hard to get them because the show hadn't been on and no one knew. And we were like, we really want to set a precedent here that we can get great TV stars to do these parts. And somehow we got them. And then from there on it was like, was this a constant discussion? about who, like, how can we, how can we take, you know, these, these TV goats, as you, as you call them, and place them strategically through the show? Or how did that, how did that play out? I mean, I think we always just aimed really high. And, you know, we would, because the show was doing well and people loved it, we got a lot of goodwill really quickly. And that's how we got people like Sylvester Stallone and we, Ron Howard and like these people that maybe other people wouldn't even take the shot. But we were like, hey, we're there. This is us. We're going to try. And then we did it. And then like what I love is like people like Dr. Kay, then these great actors would just give these powerhouse performances. And then when they would recur, like, in rewatching the car, it's like, Mr. Dr. Kay enters and it's like, act break. And it's like everyone, the language of our show is like, people are so excited about this that they now need to exhale and have a commercial break because like, because. Let me see a target commercial. I'll come back. Dr. K is back.

But it was real. People would really be excited when these people would come back because they would just come in and visit us and give these stunningly beautiful performances. I feel like Dan has something on Ron Howard, though. Ron was in...

He's in Only Murders, too. I feel like... Oh, is he really? I feel like Dan is like, no, no, you're going to do it. Ron was in the middle of directing his huge Star Wars movie in London and we needed him.

And he was like, guys, I'm like, it's kind of like a job. We're like, all right, we'll fly someone to you. Can you give us your lunch break? And on his lunch break of directing Star Wars, he shot a scene for us in London. Like, that's how cool Ron Howard is.

Amazing. That's how cool the show is. That's how big the dirt is. Let me ask you one question. This is not 2.15 specific, but I just want to ask this one question. Because we were fortunate enough to be number one in the States, all six seasons that we were on the air, what not. Would you guys, how do you think you would have felt

if that were not the case? Do you think you would have just taken it in stride and been like, all right, well, we're still making a show? Or did you feel like it's stoked to you? It was like, all right, we're on top. Like, how do we stay on top? Oh, it definitely stoops you, I think. Oh, definitely.

I mean, you're looking at her like, for sure. I mean, the expectation was not that we, the expectation was just like, we hope we make a good show. And some people like it, you know? And then what happened, I think, for all of us, I would imagine, was pretty shocking. I don't think it's ever the expectation where you're just like, well, we're going to make this, we'll be number one.

We'll make the number one show, six years. Yeah, six years, of course. But it was amazing. And then, of course, we wanted to constantly outdo ourselves and stay on top. And we really, it definitely lights a fire, I think. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming back and talking to us again. Of course.

Of course. Thank you guys. Now you can say it. That was us. Okay, all right. It is time for one of our favorite parts. of the show, hearing from you. Yes.

Why did I say it like that? Yes. Oh, yes. We love getting... Oh, my God, yes. We love getting your messages. This episode is such an emotional one. So it's very fitting that it resonated with so many people.

We have this one very sweet email from Lindsay. And let's hear what she has to say about it. Hey, guys, I love this show, and I love. that you're doing this podcast. Come on now. Thank you. Thanks, ma'am. I know I'm jumping ahead of you here,

but I just have to say that this episode has my favorite scene in the entire show. The scene at the end, where Rebecca drives across the bridge, makes me cry every single time. Called it. Called it. The look of determination and strength

on Rebecca's face with the outstanding score playing is everything. Comparing this moment to the scene earlier in the episode where Rebecca is fearful of driving across the bridge and needs Jack to help her get through it, the message of how much Rebecca's life has changed is so beautifully communicated. Now, I struggle with many worries and anxiety in this life, but my worst fear is losing my rock, my husband.

All my other fears seem tiny when put up against that. And I think that is exactly what changes for Rebecca as she crosses this bridge. She is living her worst fear. She realizes that the worst thing that could ever happen to her is not something going wrong with the bridge, but losing Jack. The look in Rebecca's eyes says, I can survive this. I can survive anything.

So beautifully written and so beautifully played by who other than Mandy Moore. That's right. That's right. That's right. You glad you read this one now? I am very uncomfortable. I'm officially renaming this episode, The Bridge. Thank you for reading.

I like it. Lindsay. Thank you, Lindsay. It's a good name. Spot on. It's a good renaming. Yeah. The Bridge.

It's one of the things that, like, jumped out of me as I watched the episode too. Well, I mean, you said as much when we first started recapping this. episode is just like, this is the turning point for this character and for this family. I also felt like I talked too much, but I, and this one, I think I got it. I think it's, I think it's, I mean, thank you. I always think it's the exact right amount. And this episode. I kind of felt like it wasn't enough. So maybe we can change that for the next episode. Okay. You got there's out there. You still like Billy's. Sterling. We love how much you talk. Yeah. Move it up. I love the sound of your voice. I love the amount of your voice. Thank you very much. This is kind of the overarching lesson of this episode, right? We have these fears. We have these kind of root fears, and there is nothing more challenging than when we are faced with them.

And then we realize not only can I survive this, but everything is going to be okay. And it's really, it's a hard thing to get out. in front of. Yes, it is. And to release those, that's the tragedy, right? It's hard to let go of those fears without them actually happening. Happening.

Yeah, without them being realized. Yeah, you actually have to live through it to know that you're gonna be okay. Right. You're not looking forward to that moment. Like, it's something that you try to keep as far away as possible, but then when you're actually faced with it. Right. I remember, just on a quick note, when my father passed away,

and I remember seeing my mom, mom cry talking to the paramedics, right? And like it was, she was shook. Like she was understandably shook because her husband was sick. He goes to the hospital, he passes away in the hospital, right? And I can almost like sort of remembering like her going from that crying to being like, like she said to me, she literally said to me, well, it's you and me now, big guy. She said, it's you and me now.

And we're like, all right, we're going to move forward, right? She didn't have a moment of like, I don't know if I can do it or not. She's like, this is our reality now. Yeah. Our reality was this yesterday. Yeah. Our reality is this now. Yeah.

And now I choose to go forward. Yeah. Yeah. For every time in my life where I have been in a position where I thought, I will never get over this. Or I'm not going to make it. I now look back and I can't think of a better word right now, but I'm like, what a silly boy. Like what an over dramatic like not that those feelings aren't real and not that they're not valid and it's like but I'm beginning to learn like I'm beginning to learn by looking back at those times yes remember when you thought you'd never get over that person yeah or you'd never be in love again yeah or you'd never get another job or you know whatever the thing whatever the fear was the fear that you were just articulating after finishing your jobs in that's right right

Like, all right, guys, what are we doing that? Yeah, yeah. And it's still there, but it's not controlling. Sure. And it doesn't. And maybe that is part of the dysregulation that I'm feeling right now. But it's like, it's, I don't allow it to be all-consuming. You don't allow it to steer the ship.

Because I feel like those fear in general, like, that's never going to go away, right? Like, it is a healthy thing to a certain extent. Sure. Yeah. But when it's debilitating, when it prevents you from living life, from being present, like, That's when it's, you know. There's a simple four words that I reference from the good book from time to time, and they are, This Two Shall Pass.

Is that Harry Potter? What is it? That is the book. That is book for The Goblet of Fire. That's your reference for the good book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dumbledore says to him. That's so sacriots, I'm sorry, people.

No, it's from the Bible. This is the greatest selling book of all time. Just so you know. A lot of people read that book. J.K. is trying to give... The Bible a run for its money. She's trying to give a run. But like that sort of mentality.

Sure. You guys remember, I'm cured, because you guys, you got three, you got two. That first one, you're like, okay, let me make sure this kid doesn't fall apart, what not. And then you get to the second and like, he's going to be fine. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because you see how durable and strong they are, what have you, but until you go through it. Yes, you also realize.

how important those moments of pain are for them. Yeah. Yes. Like that avoiding them does nobody any good. Yeah. Or going around them does nobody any good. Yeah. That you have to experience it.

Can't go above it. Can't go below it. You got to go through it. Yeah. Got to go through it. That was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.