That Was Us - The Second Half of Life | "The Pool: Part Two" (402)

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

On today’s episode of That Was Us, we’re diving into Season 4, Episode 2: The Pool: Part Two. Flashbacks to a day at the pool show Jack and Rebecca struggling to keep their kids close as they grow older. In the present, the Big Three deal with their own set of challenges now that they're adults. Mandy, Chris, and Sterling talk about the crux of this episode, which leads to a discussion about entering the second half of life. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: - BAU, Artist at War opens only in theaters, for a limited run beginning September 26th. Go to https://www.baumovie.com/ to watch the trailer, read about Josef’s real-life journey, and find showtimes near you. You can also sign your organization up for group screenings. - Brought to you by Bombas, One Clothing Item Purchased = One Clothing Item DonatedHead over to https://bombas.com/ and use code TWU for 20% off your first purchase. - Restore your peace of mind with Harbor: the only baby monitor designed to never fail you. Use code TWU or go to https://harbor.co/twu for $50 off ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:32 Discussion 01:14:49 Fan Segment 01:25:43 Outro ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz, Rob Holysz & Jeph Porter Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season four, episode two, The Pool, part two. Flashbacks to a day at the pool show Jack and Rebecca struggling to keep their kids close as they grow older. And in the present, Kevin questions his career path while trying to stay sober. Randall and Beth learned to give their girls more independence, and Kate and Toby mask their pain in very much. different ways. What up, gang?

Hello. How's everybody doing today? All I want to do, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, and a boom, boom, and a boom, just shake the rough. Come on, God. As featured in this episode, that's all I want to do. As feature. Yeah.

Everybody loves a little wrecks and effect, but everybody does, including Kevin Pearson. Including Kevin Pearson, not Randall. Not Randall. Randall couldn't follow the lyrics. Randall doesn't know who Arsenio Hall is. Yeah. And that's, I question. his family for that.

Yeah. That's my fault. I take ownership of that. Cultural situations. It's big. How are you guys doing, first of all? Great.

I'm so happy to be with you guys. I want to just say, if you're on YouTube or watching on Spotify, Chris Sullivan is bringing sexy back. You are. Like, there's like a one, two, three, four buttons. You know what I'm saying? We got a deep plunging V.

I told you. I told you I've started losing weight and I've started walking around the house without my shirt on for the first time maybe ever that I'm just like maybe kind of peacocking for Rachel a little bit I think maybe in like five or six episodes I'm just going to do the podcast shirtless Why not?

Yes Porta K no. Porque no. See? Porc no. Yeah. Give the people what they want. It's summertime.

Yes, it is. I got my quince. I got my quince chain off. Oh shit. Rocking that quince, baby. We don't just advertise for them. He's got the sunglasses in doors. I, I, these also have a prescription, okay?

They also have a prescription, uh, ran into our, our, uh, founding father, Dan Fogelman and Kate, his wife, Caitlin, our cast member, uh, Caitlin at the movie at the movie last night. It was the first time I'd seen them since I'd maybe trimmed down a little bit. And Dan, Dan, Dan was like, what? What happened? He's like, he's like, Sully, are you ripped under there? and I for a second I tried to like put it off and I was like you know what Dan I'm a little ripped under here just a little I can't wait to see him later so he can regale me with that conversation

so this is also the news right this has been an announcement right Mandy Moore is rejoining with Dan Folkman on this new NFL show I can't wait called tentatively called the land I believe so yes how excited are we how good is it going to be It's going to be excellent.

I'm very excited to be a tiny cog in the wheel of Mr. Fogelman's imagination again. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, I'm psyched. Love it. It's dope. I'm excited for you. I'm excited for the sexy that is in front of me and Mr. Sullivan and Rachel better stretch. That's all I got to say.

Rachel better stretch. All I want to do is zoom-a-zuma-zoom-zoom-zoom-zoom and a boom-boom. Come on, man. Shake that. Speaking of summer. Yes. We are deep in summer in this episode. We are indeed.

The first pool episode was a challenge because you had the little kids. It was a challenge. And you were at the pool for like technically speaking for actors. It was a lot of long days outside. Outside. In the heat. In the heat. No shade.

Yeah. Better this time at the pool? It was. I mean, if I'm going to give you like the real real. Get the real. It's why we're here. The first, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. The first time we were at the pool.

The kids were young. It was their fourth episode of a television show. My fourth episode of a television show, too. I didn't know what I was doing. You done entourage. But they, our directors of that episode, were helping sort of bribe the kids. Like, if you could just stand over here and, like, wait, like, they were bribing them with, like, gift cards. Really?

I wanted to be, like, do they know they're also getting paid to me here? John and Glenn? hysterical. But like sweet with like, with like, I don't, it wasn't Amazon, but it was like. But gift cards like Ruth's Chris. Like some place that they had gotten. Listen, my kids gave me this. I don't need it. No, no. It was like, it was like gift cards to like Barnes and Noble, like stuff that they would actually be interested in. Hey, you like books? It's like the first person to stay as quiet as possible. Okay. Anyway, all of that to say, they were adorable. They were wonderful. We were all just getting to know each other and getting used to like working on a set

and whatnot. And they were tiny. They were like seven, eight, like little guys. Which is the underlying stress of these children could drown. Like we need to keep these children away from this body of water. Yes. And keep everybody sort of like galvanized and interested and knowing what's going on. All of that to say by the time we reach season four episode two, there has been a ton of growth, literally and figuratively. And so it felt like a completely different experience. But there was like the initial shock of like, what? We're going back to that pool in Long Beach again? Yeah. Little did we know that we would be back there again in season six. It's like we just could never escape this pool, this particular. They really love this. But it went better this time.

I mean, I just think it was a little more seamless because we all knew the lay of the land. It was your 60th episode of television. It was our, yes. You could have cared less and more about doing the show. Exactly. I was so just out to lunch at that point. It's funny because I feel like there were echoes of, you know, it's the end of summer vacation. Mom and dad are like at a loss of what to do. The kids are growing up.

They want little to nothing to do with, which you might be in that boat right now in real life. Oh, sister, please. Like I, it is, it's, he's, he's, the oldest is going to be a freshman. And it is, it's so weird because it is developmentally exactly what they're supposed to do. You're raising people to become adults who are independent, capable of doing things for themselves, right? But as they are becoming independent, right? That means that they have to separate from you, right? And you do, as a parent, feel that separation.

I think the key for me and for Ryan is to not take it personally. How? How do you do that? You remind yourself not to take it personally. Because in the moment, you're like, oh, this person who I used to carry and play and do all these things with. Like we were buddies. Now that sort of phase may be transitioning into a different phase. Sure, sure. So you recognize that there's a mourning process and the death of what was.

And now you have to wait and see what is to become. enter the poison of testosterone yeah yeah yeah I mean that's a whole nother thing because like poisoning the well that's another thing and so I'll speak obliquely because you know we as a family you know we come out of the shower everybody still has like can you do my back yeah do my back all this sort of stuff both Ryan and I now are like hey man you need to put some clothes up yeah you're like you're a young man you're leaving the garden the garden the Innocence phase is over. We've moved into a new phase, for sure.

Wow. Well, that's kind of, I feel, like, where the Pearson's find themselves, too. They just, the kids want nothing to do with them. And Jack and Rebecca are sort of pining for one last family fun day, like summer day. And the idea of going and revisiting the pool, they haven't been to the pool in a long time, sort of comes up. No one wants to go to the pool. Met with tepid response. Correct.

Randall needs to win the readathon. Sure. That summer, so he's got like a couple more books that he needs to knock down. Kate wants to watch like a 902102.0 marathon or something. Yeah. And Kev is just rocking out to... Rex in effect. There you go.

Yeah. Right? But I guess begrudgingly, they all decide to go to the pool together. Right. And there's also the flashback. What I love about this past storyline is that you flashback to the first pool and just unbridled enthusiasm as to now like, all right, man, if you want to go to the pool, we can go to the pool.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Big Jack winds up getting five chairs. He pulls it off again. A miracle. Pool day miracle just for the kids to splinter off slowly. Kate sees two friends. I can't remember if it was Jessica something P. Or something like that.

And another girl. Randall sees a couple of brothers that he's going to go kick it with or what have you. And what does Kev do? Does he just got his headphones in? Keb's, I mean, Keb's hanging out. They're listening to Rex and effect on the boombox. Right, right, right, right. Because he's got it on his headphones and they're like,

hey, we have a boombox. You want to put it on the... They invite Kev to go do that, and Rand was just reading his books. Right. Yeah, right. Keith and Renard, I believe, right? Keith and Renard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My wife's voice. Yeah, Evette's boys. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. My wife, Yvette. Yeah. Ryan played a vet. Anyway, it's confusing.

There's this, there's this mama bear that I just want to clock and you tell me a little bit about this, too, because as you're watching Kate play with these two girls, you're like, hey, have these two girls ever asked you to hang out before? And like, no, da-da-da-da. And you're like, you know, could you just go back to where you were or whatnot? And there's this interesting thing. I actually just had a conversation with young ladies who were going to my son's school. And they were talking about, like, how guys can get along quicker with other guys than girls with girls.

And they say, like, because girls can be mean, right? Like, these were 14-year-old girls. talking to me about that. And I'm curious, Mandy Moore and anybody else who has experience with it, do you think girls are meaner than boys? Like, what's the nature of that, that thing that you were trying to protect Kate from? Absolutely. What is it about? Without question. Forequah. Competition, insecurity, fear of being left out, like all of the above. And it does it- Original sin. I just, I, I, I'm kidding. They say you pay your taxes, with boys early and girls later.

So I'm waiting, I'm waiting for the teenage years to hit and what I will experience having a daughter. I, yeah, I just think inherently girls are meaner. We don't, like we, some girls don't have an issue like chastising other girls, leaving them out. It's just like, it's a little bit more forward facing. Like they're not shy about not included. or gossiping in front of that.

Like, I just, yeah, I think, I don't know. I was remembering, Chris, you told us before, I don't know if this was on camera or not, but you were telling this bear, going to school, coming back, you were walking in to go get him or whatnot as he was coming out, like a kid, hit him in the stomach. It almost feels like, like, guys' cruelty is like, oh, I'm just going to, boom, do this.

And girls' cruelty sort of lives up here, what now. And my wife will say this in a heartbeat because she's a kind person. She says, well, girls are smarter than boys. So the level of, like, machinations that they are capable of is equivalent to the level of intelligence that they have. Yeah, more like primal, animalistic, like, with guys, with boys. This is a thought that is just occurring to me, so I'm going to say it out loud and we'll see if it makes any sense. Is there something to the social nature of children that is much?

more feminine inherently there's more sharing there's more the feelings are more on the surface there's there's uh you know what i mean so that so that so that like early on so far like the big fallouts that bears had is is because of girls like yeah like making fun of his pink shoes or like like really and with boys it's like it's more it's more physical sure and i wonder if if as boys and girls get older if that's how those two social environments develop. Like girls take the kind of feminine communal, vulnerable, emotional community with them, and the boys realize that they're not included in that.

Is that a thing? Yeah. You know what I mean? Is that like... And that's... And I'm not saying it's... Correct. But it might be how that that young boy mentality of like, hey, bro, punch in the arm, starts. And then we get trapped in it. And as we get older, we have to find our way out of it. You know what I mean? As we mature past. And with girls, it's just sort of like, I think as we get older, it's like, well, this is who you're supposed to like. This is how you're supposed to look. This is what you're supposed to watch and listen to. And I'm sure with the advent of social media now, it's just wildly. worse. But if you're anything outside of that box, that's an easy, you're an easy target for

someone to gossip about, for girls to be mean, if you look different, if you act different, if you have different taste. It's just, I think girls have less of a problem like being mean to each other. Well, let me ask you this. Before we go, before I make it to dichotomous right now, because this was both in the past storyline, while Kate's, you know, hanging out with these girls and you're sort of watching over and making sure she's okay. So, uh, uh, Kev is singing Rex in effect. He knows the lyrics, right? He's talking to Keith and Renard and they're like, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, like, oh, that's pretty cool. Pirs and da-da-da-da. And then Kev hits Randall, like,

yo, Randall, why don't you take the next verse, right? Fully knowing. Fully. Yeah, fully. So I only say that to say that like, you know, nobody has a monopoly on cruelty, right? Sure. Sure. I think it has love. I think it has love. to do with, you know, the gendered issue and more of just like Kevin and his brother. Like, they're just always out to sort of, Kevin's always out to get, Randall always has. He's felt threatened. You know, there is a certain comfort that Randall has in his own skin that Kevin never has and never does. Sure.

That I think he sees and do you agree? Like, I think Kevin looks at Randall and is like, wow, I will never have that. I will never have that ease in life. I think Randall has the director. He's like, he knows what he wants. Like, he's like, I'm going to win this book-a-thon thing. Like, however nerdy it is, we're like, I got a goal. Yeah.

Right? I think Kev is in search of a goal. I think mom, being a woman, sees these two young girls, who she knows are popular girls at school, and immediately clocks with Jack. Like, I don't think those girls have ever talked to Kate before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why are they talking to her now? Right. What is that thing?

It's you clocking it and not him. No, of course. We're in dude world. And then, yeah, when she approaches Kate and is like, I just wanted to check and make sure everything was okay. Kate's like, yeah, mom, like dismisses her. Like, I can handle my, I'm with my friends. Right. Everything's fine. And Jack's like, five chairs. Yeah. No, me got five chairs. Grunt. Yeah. Totally. More that was us after this short break. We just did this before school started. We kind of went away with. The whole family with the kids kind of piggybacked on a trip, a work trip of Taylor's, and, of course, you know, Airbnb.

Airbnb to the rescue, right? Airbnb to the rescue. Those little getaways, Mandy, they hit differently this time of year. The crowds thin out, the pace slows, and the weather's still great. I always look for an Airbnb when we go kind of anywhere. It's cozy, it's personable. It's like staying in a home where you can actually relax. What surprises you guys about the Airbnbs that you've had recently?

I am always so touched by the added details that the hosts share. All these trips back and forth to Toronto that I had recently for business, I would stay at the same place over and over again. And the woman whose place I was staying in would leave me like little local treats. Look at all. You've got to check out this bakery or you've got to go check out this theater. Or there's this coffee shop that's great. And she was in constant communication with me on the app.

How has everything going? Is there anything you need? What's the place missing? She was constantly trying to improve her apartment. The personal touches, bro, go a long way. And if you're heading out of town, even just for a few days, hosting on Airbnb is an easy way to make your place work while you're away. Someone else could be looking for exactly what you've got. And it doesn't feel like a big lift.

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or go to explorevolvo.com. So that Kate part then, And the girls are like, yo, if you go around the corner, somebody's going to come kiss you. Who's the boy? Cliff. Cliff is going to give you a kiss. Of course it's Cliff. Cliff is going to give you a kiss.

And Kay, it's like, yeah. I'll take a kiss from Cliff, right? So she's back there. She's waiting. And then a boy walks around the corner, but it's not Cliff. It's my man Stewart. Sweet Stewart. What's Stewart's last name?

It's so funny. I can't remember his last name. But she's like Stewart? Abernathy or something. It's like, yeah. Yeah, it's like too long and too clunky. Because they keep saying it at the end. Stuart, Stuart, a Brinthaghery.

It's just very funny. Anyways, it was really, he's a very cute kid. He's a dog. He's like, hey, this seems like someone you guys. Yeah, I was like, what? The writing was so good in this moment because he's like, she's like, Stuart? And he's like, yeah. He's like, he's like, hey, he's like, who did you expect?

And she says, she says, Cliff. And then she asks him, who did you expect? And he says, you. I know. Did your heart break a little bit? Oh, my God. Let me take so okay. So girls have a tough time, but I'm going to say something, as a dude, learning how to put yourself out there because you know that you're supposed to be the person that initiates is terrifying. Talking to girls, like, as a young boy who had no idea, like how to express himself and that, like, excitement or whatnot. It was horrific. And I will tell you guys, straight up on this podcast, it's what made me drink for the first time. Yeah. Liquid courage, hands down, the ability to just speak to a member of the opposite sex. 14. 14. You were like, I need a little something. 14. It was, it was the summer before freshman year. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know how to talk to girls. I have to do something. And I have, you have two beers. I was like, it's not so bad. it's not so bad.

Yeah. That was the beginning. And I probably drank more in high school than I ever did in my entire life. That's the dangers of beer. You know what I'm saying? That's the dangers of alcohol. More in my entire life. Nothing's that bad.

Yeah. But just to be able to talk to a girl. So like I really appreciate it. She's like, well, we can just stand here, you know, until they leave. And then she has an opportunity to exercise grace. And she's like, you know what? It just gives them a little kiss. I thought she was so great in that scene.

Wonderful. Yeah. McKenzie was fantastic. It was so sweet to see her make that switch of like, okay, yeah, we could just stand here. Yeah. Actually, no. Yeah.

Yeah. Why not? And our five foot, whatever she is. Five foot ten. She comes down. She's so tall. A little Stuart Apothecary or whatever's last name of. It's just Stuart.

So funny. It's Stuart, right? But that was a beautiful, I loved how that sort of came together, right? Yeah, I agree. And then with regards to Kev and Randall in that past storyline, right, like, they have, they have the fight, right? Like, Randall sort of, like, what are you doing? Yeah. It's like, dude, you just go out of your way to make me look bad.

You knew I didn't know the song. And you enjoy it. You enjoy it, yeah. Right. And so they sort of get into a row and then, does Jack come in? Yay, whoa, whoa, whoa. I got five chairs. You got five.

Five chairs is the whole thing. Milo had a real easy in this episode. Yeah, he did. He had a light lift. I'll be over here at the five chairs. Yeah. I'll be sitting on my five chairs. You guys.

Spread out. Yeah. But the thing that I, they still obey like the bro code. Yeah, they're like, no, no, we're good. We were roughhousing. We were roughhousing. We were roughhousing. So good.

Like Randall's not ratting him out. Kev didn't rat him out. You know what I'm saying? Kev goes back to sit on one of those five chairs. And he asked his dad No, there's four chairs. Am I a good person? Because I think it kind of hit him in that moment.

Like, oh, dude, like, there was no reason for me to do what I did. Yeah. How old are they in this episode? Like 12. They're not quite freshmen. Yeah, they're like seventh grade. They're starting middle school, which is seventh grade. Yeah.

So they're 12. Which is, by the way, a bit of a shift because middle school starts in sixth grade now, doesn't it? Yeah. Across the board. And even for me, middle school is sixth grade, and I'm the same age as... Anyway, it doesn't matter.

I think in some parts of the country, middle school starts like 7th and 8th, and then some parts, it's 6th. Mine was, I was only 7 and 8. Oh, really? Yeah. That was. Okay, gotcha.

And so Jack sidles up next to him, and he goes, yeah, I think you're a good person, man. He's like, but I don't do good things, something like that. Yeah, I keep doing all these bad things. Yeah. And Jack says, you know what, man? I think what helps me, what helped me. You come from a long line of Pearson men.

Complicated Pearson men. Complicated Pearson men. And we understand what that means without having to go too deeply into it. He says, but what helped me out is like finding people to take care of. Is that the way he phrased it? To be responsible for or something like that. And that kind of helped me sort of find my way, right? So the seed is planted, which I think plays throughout the seed.

season. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Kevin being of service. Kevin being of service. And that's it. I mean, that's, like, this is, this is the life, this is the turn, the fulcrum of the show, right? Like, the fulcrum of,

I'm the same many times I can say fulcrum. Because, but y'all didn't think you were going to hear that word today. There's five other simple machines too, sir. Um, uh, geez. Okay. There's a wedge. There's a pulley. There's, I don't know my offhand, but I do, there's, Sixth Simple Machines.

Hello, Stanford. Thank you very much. That's, you know, basic physical science. Listen. Of Jack Pearson, which is service. Yeah. Happiness is a bullshit goal. Right.

To strive to be happy, you will always be disappointed. Yeah. Because it's not accomplishable 100% of the time. Right. But what is possible to be of use. To always be useful. To always be of service. Right.

Right. And it's a huge lesson. Some people never learn it. Some people learn it early. And some people have to, like Kevin, hit rock bottom. Yeah. Yeah. To figure out, oh, it's not just the best way to live. It's the only way to live fully. Yeah. You agree with that statement. Oh, sure. Sure. Surely.

Do you going through your own sort of like journey with sobriety or whatnot? Is that something that, like, helped lift you? 100%. Yeah. Because the entirety of the journey is you need to go from self-centered, self-seeking, insular, self-pitying, to compassionate, to understanding, to forgiving. When you spend so much time focusing on yourself, you become your higher power. You become so important that nothing could eclipse that.

Nothing can eclipse it, right? You become your own God. It is narcissism, right? Just because you're a narcissist doesn't mean that you think highly of yourself. It just means that you constantly think only about yourself. Oh, God. And so the only way to combat that is to put your higher power outside of yourself.

Understood. Which is why certain programs encourage you to find something, anything, outside of yourself that is greater than you, which is why service, no matter who it's for. Absolutely. Takes your focus from inward to outward. Copy that. Yeah. That's beautiful. It's beautiful.

And we're starting to see Kevin learn that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say. that I love that this episode, this storyline in particular, ends on the littlest big three, the first time we've ever met them.

I don't know if you guys noticed that at the very end of the episode, the littlest big three who ends up becoming like a bigger part of the series, like in the sixth season. This is the first introduction, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All of us, it's sort of like, they're little smushy faces. You're like, you thought you loved those eight-year-olds. Yeah.

You're five-year-olds. And, or four or something. They were so cute. You didn't think a TV show could add more children to its lineup. Well, then you don't know Dan. Stick around. Yeah. And it's not, it's not over.

Oh, no. You don't know us. You got, you got, Toby procreating. You got Kevin procreating. Yeah, there's more to come. It is that whole little last montage there of flashing back to pool one, then previous pool one, and then just seeing you all on the, chairs or whatnot. Like it did, it got brown misty as you sort of like see your children get old

and whatnot. And I think what I, what it reminds me of is you have to meet them where they are because you always will remember what they were and what they were. It gives you these warm fuzzies. Sure. Right. And that's okay to have those warm fuzzies as long as you say like, okay, you're 14, not five. I understand I can't treat you like five. Even though in my heart like yours. You'll always be, you know, my baby. You're that? and and you're becoming a young man, and I respect that too. Yeah.

You know, so it's a yes hand. Yes, and, right. You guys want to go into Kate and Toby? Sure, sure, sure. We want to start it off. Yeah, I mean, this is one of those, I remembered some of this, and then there was a scene with you

that I was like, no recollection. No recollection. Interesting. That little thing about me worrying about Kate. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's this, it's this. It's this season three, four, where I just kind of forgot about this plot line.

And it's, yeah, it was. I remember only because, like, there weren't too many times where we got to just do scenes together. I do remember this. It's a good scene. Do we have the actress listed here? The specialist? Yeah, we don't. All I remember is when she showed up, I, this is just BTS.

This is a plot trip. No, go ahead. When she showed up, I. I was like, my heart, like, jumped because I recognized her. Oh, really? And one of those big, like, formative movies for me, I was a big Robin Williams fan. Sure. Like, maybe that might be one of the few actors who have, every movie he's ever made.

I've seen multiple times. Every movie. Every movie. Awakening's multiple times. Yes, all of them. Like, I just can't get enough of his humanity. Hook is great, yeah. You know, the humanity that he brings.

Insomnia. All of them. Okay. All of them. I'm trying to do a deep cut. Rosalin Chow, who played Robin Williams' daughter in What Dreams May Come. Oh. Okay.

In the afterworld. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I started watching that movie, I was just like, in love with her. Like, I was just like, she's, you know what I mean? I was just, like, taken by her as a performer. And she's just a beautiful woman. Yes.

And her heart in that movie. movie was so big. And so she showed up in her, and Toby and Kate's living room. And I was like, oh, no. She's here. Wish fulfillment. And she, of course, was great. Oh, she had such a, like, kindness and a warmth to her that, like, just emanated and was so perfect for this specialist that she was playing. I'm like, I will listen and take copious notes for all the things you're going to tell us. I trust you. Yeah. Yeah. Inherently. And, Yeah. She's great.

Before we get to her first scene, though, do you have a moment where you have to, where you tell your wife that you have to leave early or stay late or something before that? Later. It's later. Okay. It's later. Okay. We're first just kind of getting a glimpse at what it means to have a visually impaired.

Visually impaired. Yes. The work that's going to go into it. Sure. Logistically speaking. Yeah. Kate's feeding the baby, right? right and she's kind of explaining everything that's happening around her and like talking him through it and is is she like talking about different textures or is that the next episode or something she's like this is

velvet yeah she was tell i think i think in the second and in the next episode she talks to kevin about because kevin wants to know why the baby always cries oh yep yep and and just about yeah just about how well Kate seems to be handling everything right here at the top of the episode she seems to be doing great yeah and Toby's still a little frazzled sure and um grandma and grandpa are there and Madison is there Madison's entrance was delightful because she's she talks about how she just brings the good vibes or whatnot and it's all smiley and then yeah the cut is smash cut to her crying her crying yeah really good the only one god bless care the only one awesome um and yeah they're essentially working with this woman to baby proof a house starting with baby

proofing a house for a visually impaired child right sure um but the the kicker to this scene is that in the background there's this you know 75 inch television or whatever in a box that they're getting ready to hang up yeah because uh kate wants uh jack to start watching the stealers early and halfway through that sentence, she realizes, oh, this is, yeah, she realizes that Jack's never going to watch the Steelers. Right. You try to cover. You try to say, like, yeah, you're just going to narrate it to him. Same way you do with me. There you go. There's also the underlying, Toby is stressing, but he is noticeably trimmer. Yeah. And people are remarking on that. And he just talks about, like, you know, you can tell he's just trying to sort of, like, deflect. Deflect to the compliment.

Yeah, I'm stressing, you know, I'm stressing and Kate's kind of clocking. Just to put that out there because it does become like a larger part of this conversation and tension between the two of that. And on the stagecraft side, this is this is the beginning of this season is when I stopped wearing any kind of suit, suit, any kind of padding. Okay. Nice. Just at the beginning of this season. Yeah. So the first three, the first half, there's a suit.

Which got smaller each season. Yeah. Did the frustration abetting? a bait from putting the suit on. Once, yes. Once I didn't have to wear pants, like suit bottoms. I got you. Things got a lot better.

Understood. A lot cooler. I remember seeing Sully standing outside the trailer just, just come with the suit on. He'd take the costume off just to get a little bit of air. There's moments. Yeah, yeah. And that was why Christy was saying, she thought that whole first season that I just hated her. And it was just me trying to like, I was going through like some kind of like Navy SEAL military breathing ritual, trying not to freak out and tear, start tearing it falling. Yeah, yeah, I remember.

But yeah, I started, I immediately became freer in my body. I don't know if we talked about this podcast, but in the first three seasons, there are times, if you go back and watch the first three seasons of the show. Yeah. if I go like this with my hands and slap my legs and you can hear like you can hear this yeah but if you are paying attention it sounds like I am slapping a couch because it sounds like because I have a foam pad on my leg and go back and rewatch everyone and so and so like it didn't occur to me until later like I I'm just can't be as free with my body like if you have an it you know you can go and it you know if you want to roll up your sleeve i can't roll it my sleeve you

know there's like limitations to the to the movement but uh but yeah so this is this season i am unencumbered feeling a bit more free yeah okay by the suits yeah there is um so kev i guess you kind of have to dovetail kev storyline into the storyline a little bit right yeah kev is uh he's feeling particularly unmoored at the top of the episode and we see him in a meeting talking about um you know it's not he's going through a tough time he just ended um a pretty serious relationship he shows up to work and the work is fine he does it but he's not really finding any fulfillment in it and you see him cut to he's doing an m night shaman film which you know because he's a star and uh I didn't him like Shawmalan film and I got cut out of it.

Which one? What's the one with McAvoy when he's like, Split? Split. I was in Split and I had this whole storyline. I got cut out. It was cool. It was all good. I thought I wasn't mad about it. It didn't need it in the movie because the movie was really good.

But he's doing the movie and they're like, hey man, on this one, can you try to like let things sort of in a little bit more? He's like, okay, cool. And so he's doing a close up. He's walking through. Camera lands on him. him, tear drops out, and like, cut. It's great.

He's like, okay. Like, you can tell, like, he's not. He's not getting anything out of this, right? He's just doing what they're asking to do, et cetera. And so he's just looking for something to do. We also know that Nikki hit him up at the end of the last episode. To pay the bail money. Yeah, right, to pay the bail.

But he hasn't heard from him since. And hasn't heard from Mickey since, right? So he's really just hitting him up from time to time. I'm just like, focusing on that. Hey, man, we'd really love to know what's going on with you. How are you doing? Haven't called me back.

Just let me know, okay? Does anybody know how we get M. Night Shyamalan in this TV show? Is he just a fan of Dan Foameman? Same way we get Ron Howard and Brian Grazer. He's also a Pittsburgh guy. A Pittsburgh guy. Yeah. I didn't know that.

Yeah. He's a Philly, Philly, Philly. But he's a Pennsylvania guy. He's a Pennsylvania guy. He's an American, you guys. He's a goddamn American. Sorry, Philly. There is that connection.

and he and his family love the show. I remember talking to him outside. Milo and I were talking to him outside of our trailers. Oh, yeah? He was like, yeah, we watched the first, like, three seasons of the show. And I think it was like his wife and kids were like, you gotta do it. Yeah, yeah. Dan got word that he liked the show.

And, yeah. He says to Kev, too. He goes, you know what, Kev? And there's a quote, if anybody was a quote. He says, you know, when you strip away all the artifices, all the tricks you use to make yourself seem appealing and charming and handsome, when you let all that crap go, you're absolutely incredible. Yeah.

It's true. Which is great. Yeah. But also, yeah, a real come-to-Jesus moment for our man, Kev. For Kev, for sure. And so to dovetail, once he goes to check on his family, his sister and his nephew or whatnot, he's still on his phone quite a bit. And he has a moment where everybody splits up in the house to sort of like go into each

room and take like a risk assessment, right? Yeah, of like what cords or corners are sharp, et cetera, et cetera. Because you have a young boy who's going to be walking around this place. So first of all, we have to make sure everything is in the place that you feel comfortable with it being and take note of what dangers are present. And Kev winds up seeing a hearing, Jack, in his crib and he goes to have a heart to heart. And he tries to pick him up.

But the kid starts crying as soon as he tries to pick him up. He's like, all right, man, I'm not going to pick you up. and he's just sort of talking out, like, where he is in his life, right? Is there anything in particular that resonated with you guys in that? I think the idea that, you know, he's like, you're 187 days old, and I know that because I've been sober for 187 days. 186 or something because he was drunk. Yeah, yeah.

Sorry, sorry. No, but he said it was the same as long as you have, but then I was like, no, you were, you're drinking that day, but it's all right. Oh, and the waiting room? Yeah. Sure. but just that how it's easier for him to sort of lose himself and work because he can just show up and have someone direct him and make all of the choices and decisions for him.

Tell him what to do. Tell him how to feel. Tell him where to stand. You know, Kate overhears all of this. He, like, walks in and she walks in and he's like, how much does you hear? And she's like, just the last little bit. But then I heard the whole thing on the baby monitor. Yeah.

And it is that, it's that moment where you begin. to realize that Kevin has found you can't get sober for anyone else but it is nice to have something to focus on a purpose and there's something about this child that has shifted his perspective and given him some like meaning

he also knows that he's like I'm in really deep with my sister and this baby like I'm in L.A. I'm going to all the doctor's appointments and over he's at the doctor's appointment with Kate and Toby and he's just like, oof, this guy is, he's in it with him. Yeah. And he's, and it's beautiful, but maybe it's also a crutch for him in his recovery. Maybe he's using this to lean on in the same way that he leans on work,

and it helps him sort of avoid doing the work on himself that he really needs to be doing. Yeah. Oh, man, I'm really trying to remember. I think that we had a real issue on set the day, that Kevin was in the day, doctor's appointment with us. Really? Yeah, because we couldn't stop laughing, and I can't remember why. But there was something happening with our guest star.

Okay. And like a pronunciation of a word. Sure. Or, like, the delivery of the news was so blunt. Was all, for all three of you, was it just? God, I kind of vaguely remember hearing you this. Because I had to tell everybody afterwards. I was like, you're not going to believe, like,

like the person like the person was like not realizing what news they were delivering to us so the way they the way that they were delivering it was like happy or joyful or something like so your son won't be able to see anything yeah they were having a real hard time understanding the tone with which they should be using I remember you telling it was like one of these things where it was like I heard it and then I went I clocked it and I looked over at Justin and Justin was already gone and Chrissy was the only one who was like looking right ahead while these two idiots are like looking past her yeah yeah trying to try to she's doing her job and we were just trying to get through it this is because they don't get all the information they have like besides to go off of

and me and Justin had a real problem being on set together like Just in general, yeah. There's a glint in his eye always, period, end of story, of mischief. And I want to see it come out. Like, I want him. I'm like, yeah, follow that. Whatever that is, show me that. Show me that.

Yeah. And he indulges me. Yeah, the two of you guys together, for sure. That's why Zoe was always like, oh, God. For your makeup? Yeah. Don't laugh, Mandy. It just loosens the process.

And it only encourages them. Yeah, it does. But then you add John Werta's. Oh, boy. Forget about it. Forget about it. Wrettes is ridiculous. Yeah.

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and experience the security every parent deserves. That's H-A-R-B-R-C-E-O-R-C-E. There is also TWU. There is also in the midst of this thing. There's a movie opportunity in Chicago. He's on the shortlist for our Spike Jones movie, guys? It's a Spike Jones movie. Mom and Miguel subscribe to the Hollywood Reporter now, and they read it in Hollywood Reporter.

No, they live in L.A. It's the thing to do. You got to keep up with that. times, man. It's also, it's also a great moment that, um, uh, if you're not an actor, you don't know that this happens to us. And I'm sure it's happened to you guys with someone in your life who like, they'll be like, how's, how are things going? And you're like, well, yeah, I'm not working right now. And they're like, you know, you should be on the pit. Why don't you go beyond the pit? Like, it's that easy. Like, that's how any of this works. Yeah. And it's,

Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah. I didn't think of that. I didn't think about that. But not did you mention it. I should be on the pit. I will go be on the pit. You know what I mean? And so, like, there's, it definitely happens with, like, moms and, and, hey, why aren't you on the Tonight Show?

Well, that's a long story. But it is, it's very cute. It's a very, like, Rebecca and Miguel thing of, like, we're on the inside now. Yeah. Because we have our subscription to the Hollywood Reporter. You guys are so adorable. And do you know what we heard that you're on the short list? For a Spike Jones movie.

Like they've ever seen her or something. Like, come on. Yeah. Come on. Or they know who Spike Jones is. Exactly. I like Three Kings. I like three.

He didn't direct that. No, no. He's just a actor, yeah. And so what I think Kev gets some sort of, oh, no, what happens is, it's like, how come the boy won't let me pick him up? Like, I don't think he likes me. And she's like, no, dude, that's not it. He likes you.

It's just, he doesn't, he can't see. So he doesn't know what's coming. He doesn't know what's coming. You got to narrate what's happening for him so that you prepare them, right? Mommy's coming in to pick you up. She picks him up and now I'm going to pass you to your uncle Kevin, and she passes him over. And it's beautiful. You'll always know it's him because he always smells very expensive.

He always smells very expensive. And I wanted to say this because I felt like there was more shots of, of baby. and necessarily so. Like, just talk to me a little bit about the difference between holding the baby and holding the doll as an actor. Like, just... It's night and day, right?

And you try to embody the doll as much as possible. But when you have the baby, it's just automatic. It's just automatic. Right? Like, I see, I've seen you, I've seen Justin, too. There's this thing that we as men with, like, hands and just rubbing the booty.

Just, you know what I'm saying? Not even like, it's just like, this is how I, right? Yeah. It's how I love you. It feels. And it's just like impossible not to interrupt. I think it's at the top of this episode. It was, it's like Toby's saying, all you have to remember is that I'm the hairy one.

There you go. And right then, he grabbed the beard and pulled on it. Boom. And, oh, yep, see, just like that. Just like these like little, yeah, it's just a gospel night time. The unpredictability is actually the joy of an actor. Because you don't know what you're going to get, so they keep you. in the moment.

Yes. You know what I'm saying? I have no choice but to be present. Absolutely. Which is also how it is with kids. Yeah. In general. This would be a bit of a behind the curtain thing, and I hope it doesn't ruin anything

for anybody. But if you're watching along with us, watch the baby as we go, because one of the things that they just let the, you wouldn't normally let an actor of any age do this. Yeah. But it lended itself to making the baby. look like it had a visual impairment because it was always staring at the boom mic I remember that yeah and so the baby was always not looking at the parent not looking at the actor looking at the microphone dangling in front of him yes which made the baby kind of look like it couldn't see yes

and it's just staring at the boom mic that's interesting I remember that totally couldn't figure out what was going on oh my gosh I was about to ask. So he wasn't impaired. No. And they would digitally move one of his, when they would close up, one of the eyes to match Blake. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah.

So, okay, Kev has the moment with the baby. He's feeling connected or whatnot. And I think he makes a decision to go somewhere. Or does he make a decision to remove himself? Basically, like, you got, like, don't stay here for us. Like, you should go work. Like, you thrive when you're working. It's really good for you.

And mom and Miguel said as much as well. Like, earlier as they're sort of walking over to Kate's house, it's like, focus on you, focus on your sobriety. Like, get to work. Go do this Spike Jones movie. And he's sort of hemming and hawing, but Kate kind of, like, implores him and pushes him. Like, we're fine. Right. You know, it's like, she also talks about, um,

blaming herself for she's like I knew the risks like I knew right everyone told me not to do everyone told me not to have a baby and I did it anyway and so of course like I blame myself as a parent for his disability right I know it's yeah this like that's real I mean I know I know I said a few things a couple times and she's like I wonder if if so-and-so is like this because of something that I did, right? I mean, it's something that, I mean, me, dudes cannot sort of relate to because it's like, your relationship is nine months older, right, than ours is. And like, diet, exercise, like what sort of how I was feeling at that time in terms of hormones that are passing through me, like all these thoughts that the mom has to have that are, like, we get to wait nine

months before we have any of those things. It's like, I wonder if I did something. You know? Yeah. It's a lot. The answer is yes. The answer is most definitely. For us, for you. And we see Kevin absorb what Kate says.

Yeah. And he, you see him like getting into a car at the end of this episode on his way to the airport, going to take an American Airlines flight. Sure. Oh, this guy's going to Chicago. Thank God. Yeah. He's listening to his sister. He's listening to his own intuition that's telling him to.

go back to work. But he's not. He's not going to Chicago. He is not. He shows up on his uncle's doorstep. Is it a doorstep if it's a trailer? There's a door. There's a door.

And then there's a step. They're foldable. They're foldable steps. But they're there. And he's got the plant. And he mentions at the beginning of the episode, it's like, this plant is like the one thing that I have any control over. Yeah, responsibility.

Like watering it, being responsible, et cetera. And so it's like he comes plant in hand to his uncle. And it's sort of the echo of what Jack was saying in the past is like if we find the people that we care about and the people we can be responsible for, I think that helps us become a better person. I think this is now where Kev is going to be putting his energy. Yeah. Right. That's the conclusion of those right there. It's the conclusion of that one.

Yeah. And then there's Black Pearson's. There's Black Pearson's. We can wrap up the Kate and Toby one real quick. Go wrap it. Wrap it, wrap it. Which, you know, in the scene that Toby and Rebecca have, he points out how well Kate is doing maybe a little too well. Yeah.

I think she. Because Rebecca clocks it too. Yeah. Why is she doing so well? She shouldn't be doing so well. Yeah. What's going on? And Toby lets her know that Kate has been overeating and that of all the things he's worried about that she's at the top of his list.

Yep. Then also at the end of the episode, Toby is going to the grocery. grocery store at some weird hour for some reason and like you don't have to go to the yeah and we cut to uh to Toby has been sneaking off to the gym to to he's doing the rope battle rope out his his his uh hope you're watching on YouTube yeah yeah yeah we just saw a mean uh mean battle rope I mean you you going out I was going that drove all the way to Long Beach for that 10 seconds you have to go Long Beach yeah well ever the whole production was in Long Beach that Because of the pool. Because of the pool. Yes. And I was like, Long Beach. Why? They also, like, Ken or who, I don't remember who it was.

Chris College? Somebody signed me up for CrossFit, like, actual, like, to go get an actual CrossFit lesson. And I was like, what are we doing in this 10 second? I've seen the script. It's like. I know how to ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch with the ropes. But they sent me to a CrossFit gym in Venice to, like, get the lay of the land. And I'm like, listen, I've got Sterling K. Brown, but I've been to a gym.

Like, I don't need a lesson. So insulting. So this is a handaway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a bison, girl. You ever seen a treadmill? Yes. And so, yeah.

Who did it direct to this? Kotch. Kach. Kach. There's Chris Kach. We love Kach. We do. And, and so, yeah, so I drove all the way down there, got into my workout clothes, walked on. We did one take.

I think we got it. I went home. That's very cocked, too, to be like, we got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. Not ever shoot this. Is there, in terms of like, because your new dads or whatnot, your new dad, not

whatnot, is there anything that you did to deal with stress or anything for you? Because, like, we seen Jack hit a heavy bag. We see Randall do this running thing. We see Toby doing this lifting thing or whatnot. Like, did Chris feel like there was anything that you needed to do? I mean, I did a, it was mid-pandemic. Yeah. Right?

You were going through the same thing, right? Yeah. Like, three months later? Were you back? When did, when did you have your first child? February of 2021. So, yeah, I was pregnant during, like, the, right? Yeah.

Yeah. The thick of the pandemic. And Bear was born July 2020. Okay. Oof. Which was three months before we went back to work. Yeah, we went back in September. So I couldn't, I had no outlets.

Like, Rachel and I were in this constant loop of like the same three rooms every day over and over again. Sure. Same conversations, same conflict, same TV shows. It was great. It was great. But it was also a bit like, like a waiting for waiting for Godot type. Like, what is it happening? Like these days are melting together.

Yeah. We're going a little bit crazy. So I did a lot of therapy. Like, I spent a lot of time on the Zoom. We did in, I think I was in individual, couples, and group. Great. Good for you. Like all, because I was like, I need to talk to somebody other than my own.

Yes. Yes. And so did she. She was like, because we were driving each other crazy in certain ways. Yeah, it's so isolating, too. That's real. That's when we, that's why I found Marco Polo. during the pandemic.

Marco Pol, like the group text, the video conversation. And, like, me and, like, my groomsmen were on this thing together, and it was one of the greatest lifelines I ever invested in. Big out. Wow. And I started actually working out. We had

an empty bedroom at the time before we had kids. We had a little room dedicated to yoga and things. And so Rach and I would each have our time of the day where we would go down there and just sweat and do something or other just to get the wiggles out, as we say now. But, yeah, it was a, it was a unique time. Very.

Yeah. Very. Okay. Okay. Anything else on that? That's the end of that storyline. Well, I love that it ends before Toby going to the gym with Kate sort of like, okay, attention everybody. Like, I understand this is heavy. I understand we're all navigating a lot of newness and confusion and fear, but, like, hope is going to be the prevailing feeling in this house and with this child.

And, like, she just sort of, like, found the strength of, like, the mama bareness of, I know how to forge forward. And I'm laying down the law, and we're all going to subscribe to this. And we're all like, Madison, you're not going to cry in the corner. No one's going to feel sorry for Jack. He's going to live a life without limits. And that's just like the end of the story. Like, let's just keep going forward. And I love that.

Like, it's not often we see that side of Kate, if ever, really, you know? And it's like she's doing it for him and doing it for her. She's doing it for her family. And that's sort of like what it is to be a parent. You find a strength within yourself that you didn't know was possible before. because you're accountable to someone else now and not just yourself. You have revealed to me the crux of this episode just now, which is, and when we get to the Black Pearson storyline, it's happening for Randall, too. This is the episode, and here we are smack in the middle of our series, where the big three enter the second half of life.

Yeah. Like in an episode, they, there's, it's a, it's a spiritual concept that I've read about this, this Catholic monk named Richard Roar writes about this, about entering the second half of life and how it is a mythological moment in a person's life where there is great, where there is a fall, where there is a, a tragedy, a rock bottom, a hardship, crucifixion, by his standard definition, where there is a death of the ego and an entering into the second half of life. Like a rebirth. Like a rebirth. Got it. A resurrection, if you will.

And this moment doesn't happen for everybody. Sometimes it happens. That's what they, that's what he says, that's what they call a deathbed. awakening right what's it called a confession or no the like when people have those realizations just at the moment we're like oh oh no that's what it was all about that's what it was all and they enter the second half of life right as it's ending some people never and some people go in very early some you know and it happens for for people at and it's essentially what what allows people like we were talking about in previous episodes to go from just getting

older to becoming an elder. I, sure. Right? Because they've made a shift. They've turned from looking inward to focusing outward. I hear you. On the people around them.

And you've just revealed, like, so Kevin has done that with his sobriety and with this baby. Kate has done that also with this baby. Yeah. And Randall will have a similar moment with the shift in his life as we talk about this plot line. Right on, right on. Black Pearson's, uh, Randall's mirroring, his dad is trying to plan like a last Pearson family fun day.

Yep. School's about to get started and he's excited to like spend the day with his girls. They're being a little bit more cantankerous, it seems. Yeah, that's like, they're mean. They're mean. Getting meaner by the day. This is who we were talking about, as we talked about girls in the nature of them earlier in the episode, right?

They come in. Tess's, Tess is fro. It looks gorgeous, by the way. And, you know, today she's supposed to get her hair done. It's why she's been growing it out the whole summer. Mom promised that we were going to do this. And then Deja's like, you promised that I get to ride the bus so I can do that. We do one practice so I can go to school.

And then they're like, okay, we'll go from a family fun day to a family fun afternoon. You go get your hair done with your mom. I'll take you to do a trial run on the bus, see how that goes. And then we'll meet up after that. Right. And he comes in like, what do we do? You like sweetheart, and she's like, I'm fine either way. I'm like, God bless you.

This is how my youngest is right now. It's like, God bless you. Make it easy for me as long as you possibly can. Yes. You rock my work. But the two of you are essentially navigating, like, the last vestiges of parental control. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's interesting because they are, or at least, Dase is about to be a freshman. So my son's about to be a freshman. And that it means that Tess is probably going into the eighth grade. I don't think they're in the same grade. No, they're not in the same grade. She's one grade ahead of her. So, we go to the bus.

And, you know, and they just sort of giving me crap, like, Randall, this is a bus. I've been on a bus before. Randall probably hadn't been on too many buses, but he has been on a bus before because he went to go see his mama back in the day. The tram from the parking lot to the front gate at Disneyland. Stop. You ought to be ashamed of a son. He didn't been on a bus before. And, but he's, listen, this is his girl,

who's his daughter, he's not 100% comfortable. And she's like, well, why don't you sit off to the side so you can see what it's like for me to do it by myself? And he's like, I, fair enough, good idea. Things seem to be going just fine. Then this dude walks up and he's hell of sketch. Hell of sketch, dude, sit, and it just starts talking. And he just starts talking, yabby-y-abber, like looking at her,

like talking to her ear or whatnot. And he says, like, respectfully, but also like, hey man, do you mind if I sit next to me? my daughter. Put a little bit more base. I heard it. You put just a little bit of bass in your voice. And volume. Yeah, just a little. My daughter. Yeah, same, man. Can you mind if I sit next to my daughter?

And the guy's like, so sketch is like, yeah, man, what are you talking about? That makes sense. Why would I want to get between you and your daughter? Listen, I'm sketchy. I'm not unreasonable. And she's like, you just couldn't do it, could you? And it's like, look, man. I understand that you're growing up. I understand

that you've had a life before me, which she always loves to throw into my face and the level of independence that she's had, but now you are under my supervision, you're under my care. I'm not comfortable right now, maybe next year. I'll get there. Gripping the parental.

Gripping. Gripping. We switched to Beth at the salon with Tess and Annie. And the stylist comes over. She's like, girl, she's like, what are we thinking about today? She shows her a picture, right? Nobody else sees the picture. And she's like, ooh, I like it.

This is going to be great. Give me a second to clean up, and I got you. And Beth is like, yo. Beth sees the picture. Beth sees the picture. She's like, are you sure? Like, you're growing in your hair and it looks so great and everything. And this is a big thing.

And she's like, Mom, like, please, like, let me do my thing. You made me think about this all summer. All summer. This is what I want. And she's like, okay. And it does, it sort of reminds me of I did this to my wife. I don't know if you've ever done this to your wife or Taylor's ever done this to you.

And this is having much earlier and I feel bad because I understand it now a little bit. Amari's hair was just like becoming its own thing, taking on its own life and it was becoming difficult to sort of maintain maintenance with whatnot. So I said, you know, I was a little boy

what I'll do is I'll just trim it up a little bit. The trim became more difficult than I thought. So I wound up giving him a Sullivan. I gave him. I took that ish all the way down. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Ryan Michelle Bathay walked into the house.

Oh, no. And she saw her child, her baby. He was probably three. Oh. Wow, you should have lied with that. Oh, boy. And she said, what did you do to my child? I said, his hair was hard to comb brush.

I couldn't get to it. So I just took it off. It'll grow back. And it was the look that Beth had that I was like, there's a cuteness. There's a certain sort of like youthfulness that we attach to hair for better, for worse, it just is what it is, right? And then when it goes away, like there's sort of like, oh, the baby's gone now. And somebody else is in that space.

Right. Right. And she was just like sort of mourning that. We have a moment of Beth and Randall sitting on the bench outside of the beauty shop. And she's like, I take it that the bus ride didn't go well. I said, I freaked out, told her she couldn't ride the bus. And I said, I take it. The beauty shop's not going well.

She's like, it's just my little girl. And she, you know, it's not going to be the same, right? But then the young lady comes out. By the way, side note. I think I've mentioned this before. Eris Baker, who plays Tess, has been a PA on this season of Paradise. No, we didn't know that. Did I not mention this?

No. So, Aris is going into her junior year at USC, right, is working on a short film that she showed me that she had written, which is six pages, and it's gorgeous. All right. Like, what she fits into, like, six pages, I was like, you're 20. Where is all this coming from? Like, it's like this lifetime of a beautiful love story that she fits into six minutes or whatnot. And so I've had her around, and, like, she sees me, she says, hey, Sterling.

And I give her a hug every day, and it's so, like, it's such a joy. Like, it's so silly. Like, it's not my child, you guys, not at all. But for, like, seven years on a TV show. That's right. Right? She was. And so she's grown.

And so I'm going back between seeing her in real life and seeing her on the show. And she walks out and she cuts her hair. And she's got like these curls on top, and it's natural on the side, but low crop. And she looks great. Great. She looks great. Yeah.

Right. And she is so happy. She's so pleased. It's exactly what she wanted. Exactly what she wanted. And I think both Beth and Randall are like, all right, okay. It may not be what it was, what I was saying at the beginning. Like you have to mourn what was as you come to with what is.

Right. Yeah. It's second half. That's what this parenthood being. And a lot of parents, like, they will revert. You may have moments where you sort of like fall back and whatnot, but you just have to keep putting forth that effort to meet your children where they are. Because at a certain point, your children aren't children anymore.

They are your children, but they are adults or young adults or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just have to keep reminding myself. You know what I'm saying? Like the episode sort of reminded me as well. Other behind-the-scenes note, I don't know if you guys remember this, but in between season three and season four,

Brown had surgery on his knee. That's right. That's right. That's right. Brown had a torn ACL towards the end of season three, but didn't realize it. Like, we're still running on the treadmill, right? It was still doing things. In pain?

No. Okay. I knew there was something that told me, I think I'm going to give credit to a higher power, and I will name it God in this moment. that said, please don't play basketball. Because what it is with the ACL, it's lateral movement. Got it.

Going side to side. As long as I'm going straight in a row, you're okay. Totally fine. I was like, well, I can't be, I can't have a 20 ACL because I can still run. And I went to go see the, what's the name of the doctor that does? Orthopedic surgeon. He's like, no, bro, it's night bear. It's gone.

It's in your ankle. Oh, and G. He said it's not stretched, it's totally gone. It rolled up into your calf. And I was like, biscuits and gravy. So I had to go and get surgery in between. So remember we did the photo shoot with, this is when we did the- Annie Leibowitz, right?

I don't know if you guys remember, but I was like, I was like, and you know, Brown, on set, like, whenever we're at Paramount, I like to walk from base camp to whatever. I was like, I'll still do it. And maybe like they got me a cart one time, but I was like, this is my thing. I walk from place to place. So we had to push this thing a little bit

because we actually went to Philadelphia. Yeah. We actually went to Philadelphia to shoot some exterior thing to run up the steps, et cetera. Tess, Aris and I, I was like, Eris, I'm going to beat you up the steps. And she's like, you have a bad leg. I was like, no, but I'm getting better. And I'm going to beat you up the steps. And she's like, no, you're not.

Because Ayers Baker is fast. So every time we had like our, we did the first, we have our family fun day. We have the first, the introduction to the kids of worst case scenario. Yeah. Right. Right. What is the worst case scenario? Days just says that, you know, you guys will never allow me to grow up and become like an adult and you'll just keep smothering me. And Randall says, well, when you ride the bus tomorrow, make sure you text me as soon as you get to school. She's like, what are you talking about? Right. She's like, as soon as you get to school, you text me. Yeah. He made him 180. He turned the corner, right? What was, what was Tess's?

I didn't write them down. Annie was Annie. Annie was that you'll forget her friends. All my friends will forget about me. And they're like, oh, girl, we didn't even know that. And she's like, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I don't know. I didn't have anything. No, Tess said she didn't have anything.

That's right. That's she said I'm not. She says, I don't have a worst case scenario. Yeah. You're right. Which was both heartening but also like, really? May not have been fully, yeah, fully, fully ready to do that. But so then they run up the steps, right?

And we probably did this three, four times. I won every time. Three or four times. Gang, I won every time. Listen. Stairs are long and high. Listen to me. You guys know me.

I don't lose. Yeah, I know the Aries competitive side. We noticed, we know this very strongly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And let me tell you, it was not easy because that little girl was fast. So if you see me running out the steps, you see Brown with, like, full cruise blades. Cruise blades. They're full cruise blades.

And, like, try to, like, take, like, three or four steps at a time. Because I'm like, if I go one step at a time, this little girls go beat me. Yeah. I'm trying to cover as much ground as possible. But that was the end of. of our Pearson family. That's some good BTS. Oh, my goodness. Okay, that was a great episode.

Excellent episode. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Entering the second half of life. Entering the second half of life. Second half of our series. Second half of our series. All those things happening at the same time. We have a wonderful fan segment that we're going to get into right after this,

so stick around for more. That was us. Welcome back for our favorite segment. of the show. It is our fan segment. And today, we received an incredible email all the way from Caitlin in Perth, Australia. And after reading it, we just knew we had to speak to her. She told us how This Is Us helped her navigate one of the most personal and challenging experiences of her life, becoming a mom to a daughter with congenital glaucoma. As we finally dive into Jack Damon's story on the show, Caitlin's own story is powerful moving, and such a testament to how much

representation matters. Let's give her a call and have a chat. Let's do it. Hi, Caitlin. How are you? Oh my goodness. I'm good. How are you guys? We're doing wonderful. Chris Sullivan here. That's Chris Sullivan. I'm and I'm Mandy. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thanks so much for hopping on the phone with us. Can we ask what time is it there? 5.30 in the morning. Oh. Are you serious, sister? Thank you. God bless you. Well, you have a little one, so I imagine you're used to being up early, huh? Oh, absolutely.

I've got her on the baby monitor right now, and she's still asleep. Oh, she's the best. I hope you've made yourself some coffee, and you get a little time for yourself before the day starts. Listen, we got a chance to read your email, but we wanted to give you an opportunity to share your story and the point of connection that you have with this is us and your own life. So if you wouldn't mind, will you tell our audience how you found yourself inside of the show? Yeah. So when I was pregnant, my sisters had started watching This Is Us.

And I didn't really get a chance to start watching it until after my baby was born. She was born with congenital glaucoma. So it's like an eye pressure issue that we had no clue about when I was pregnant. pregnant. But then, yeah, as I was watching the show, as the seasons went on, and Kate had baby Jack and they were in the NICU, like I was in the NICU with my daughter for a couple weeks. So I just such a strong, it was like Kate was living my life pretty much on TV. Yeah. And then Remy's had 11 surgeries. 11.

To help fix her eyesight, she's visually impaired. Yeah. So just, yeah, as time went on, Kate and Toby and Jack's row were showing up on the TV, it was literally like a reflection of my life. Wow. Right there. The storyline was happening as you, but what's your daughter's name again? Remy.

Remy. Well, like, as she was going through these surgeries, you were watching the show or the surgeries happened after the show or slightly before? Or what? Oh, so she's only 14 months. So I'm watching the fact, like last year. I was watching it. But it was like my life was happening.

Our surgeries were happening. And then I was watching episodes of the show. And it was like, oh, my God. That is my life. That is what's happening to me right now. And how is she, how's Remy doing now? She's good. She's good.

She's a very happy, stubborn little 14-month. We know it well. Very rough world. But we don't know how much she can see. She's definitely visually impaired, but like the portrayal of like what baby Jack can see a little bit later on in season four that hit me because I was like, oh my God, like, is that what my daughter can see? I don't know. And it was just how Kate, you know, sings the songs and just navigates life. with baby Jack's best interest

and of course Toby did as well but like the way that they Kate's reaction and what she did with baby Jack that was me and then Toby my partner was pretty much you in the way you were both dealing

with everything and yeah it was quite confronting but also just like a weight off me that like we weren't experiencing this alone that this was like a shared experience yeah yeah yeah and that you know being able to see part of your life reflected back to you i'm so you know honored that we could be

the show could be a part of your journey and helping you feel less alone and feel maybe just like have a little bit more understanding of of your own story and for others to understand your story as well I think that's sort of one of the magic tricks of a show like this. We touch on so many different issues over the course of the six seasons, and this is such a, I think, an under, we were just talking to Blake Stadnik actually earlier today who plays the older version of Jack Damon, and he's visually impaired and just talked about how, you know, 25% of Americans here in our country have some sort of, you know, quote unquote disability and just how underrepresented that is in, you know, pop culture and the mainstream media. and I'm really proud to be a part of a show that highlighted this, you know, issue in particular and being able to show families and parents and loved ones out there, you know, something that's not often depicted out there in mainstream culture. Oh, absolutely.

And like, I'd never met a visually impaired child before. And, like, now we go to play group, which is, like, mainly for visually impaired children and seeing them be able to play and go about life. and just be regular kids and happy, that was, like, changing for me. But everyone I meet, I tell them to watch This Is Us. If they have questions about Remy and, like, what she can see and how she'll cope, I tell them to watch the show. Any new moms that I meet that are going through similar things with their kids

in, like, the ophthalmology department, yeah, I tell them just because it's such a good representation of what life is like to have a child with a disability and a visual impairment in particular. This is so interesting, Karen. This question is going to sound, I don't know how it will sound. Like, are there ever times for you in watching it? Because I've heard this reflected back sometimes from some people that, like, certain episodes hit very close to home and they need a little bit of distance from them.

Like, given this whole storyline for you, has it been just? a bomb or is it sometimes like oh boy I mean I need to take it close to the bone yeah sometimes I need to take a little bit of a break I'm curious yes I actually I was re-watching the season as like your podcast episodes came out and I had to stop around season into season two beginning of season three just because I knew what was going to come up when like Kate and Toby had baby Jack and it's just too much And then, like, I re-watched the beginning of season four yesterday. And it was just, like, instant tears.

It definitely hits very close to home. I hear you. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to watch sometimes. But then a good cry is good. Yeah, it feels good. God bless you. Yeah.

God bless you. We just appreciate your vulnerability and sharing with us. I mean, it just is really heartening to know that the show hits. It's so many different people and so many different ways and across the world years after the show originally, you know, aired, that it's still finding a way to permeate and, you know, how people understand their lives and how our families all are comprised. And it just, it really, really, really means a lot to us. Yeah. Thank you, Kaylyn. Thank you for sharing.

To you and Remy. God bless Remy, your beautiful child. and may she have the most wonderful life. You, her, your partner, all family and friends involved. May she be a blessing to you all as much as you all are a blessing to her. I'm sending you love and light. Yeah. Thank you guys for just portraying what you portrayed.

It was amazing and continues to be amazing. So thank you. Thank you very much, Caitlin. Have a wonderful, go back to bed if you can. Yeah, go back to sleep, get some zee's before she wakes up. And we'll talk to you later. Okay, thank you. Take care, Caitlin.

Have a good day. Bye. Bye. She sounds like a great mom. She is a great mom. We know that. It's one of the, what you call it the magic tricks of our show, that like life when you're in the middle of it feels unbearable sometimes. Yeah.

So daunting. So overwhelming. And the magic trick of the show is it gives you future knowledge or past knowledge that helps, that helps you look at the whole. picture right you know what i mean yeah like even talking to to to blake it's like you know for for to to have an impairment or a disability seems can seem insurmountable and it can seem it can seem unbearable but for that being it's just the nature of what is right you know they don't know anything else yeah you know it's it's it is the gift of our our show to be able to to zoom out and look at things, how things work out.

You know, you see this little premature baby in our show in a incubator and a incubator. And you see this man on stage triumphant to singing his song to a sold-out crowd. It's like both things are true. And really, anything is possible. Anything is possible. Another great episode, you guys.

I love you all so very much. Thank you for doing this with me and allow me to be a part of it. Thank you guys for listening, for subscribing, for liking, for telling friends, right? We're just on the back half. So we got half a show to go, but we'll take our time. Half a series to go. We'll take our time with it and make it last as long as possible. So that was us, gang.

That was us. We'll talk to you soon. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions, music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da da-da-da-dum. That was us.