That Was Us - Time After Time | "Kyle" (S1E3)

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Grief. Where do you begin when you feel like you’re slipping through quicksand? Jack and Rebecca bring home three babies while grieving the loss of another. Randall just reunited with his birth father, William, but now grieves his terminal illness. All channel their grief differently. How do we go through the process of grief with care and ultimately come out on the other side of it? Who do we lean on in these moments of darkness so we don’t have to face it alone? Kate reminds us of the importance of being there for each other, no matter the circumstances… time after time. Deep breaths. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing season one, episode three, Kyle. Rebecca pays a surprise visit, Kevin makes plans to move, and Toby prepares a special day for Kate. Welcome. Hello, we're back. How's everybody doing? Well, so good to see you. This is so much fun. It's ridiculous.

It is. It's too much fun. It's an excuse just to kick it and watch a really cool show. I've been spreading them out. I can't watch them back to back. So I've been trying to give myself trying to do like one a night. Okay. Yeah.

How do you do it? Same. I mean, I think for those out there that can binge more than one at a time, my hats off to you, but I just don't have the emotional capacity. It also already feels like a fever dream to me that we made the show. Yes. And so in order to come back and talk about the show, I need like to break up the episodes. Yes.

Totally. Into episodic chunks. I understood. Because it all runs together in my brain. It does to me too. It feels like, it feels like six movies to a certain extent, right? In terms of the seasons. So it's good to sort of go back and get granular and just sort of do one edit.

It's hard. It all melts together. We start 103 on. on the bus. That's right. Right? And we see William riding the bus and sort of the story of William and Randall's mother, sort of told up style in vignette without, you know, any dialogue or what have you, because

he's on the bus, he sees her on the bus, they're all looking well, then you see them sort of together on the bus and they're like happy and he's writing in his notebook and he's come up with beautiful poetry, etc. And then at one point in time, you see they kind of fall on hard times. And they don't know what it is. You don't know what it is, but they don't look as well with each other. And you see him writing in his, and you can barely see what he's writing. It's barely legible.

Barely legible. And then the next thing you see, he's on the bus by himself with a baby in his arms. And I'm telling you, in terms of storytelling, and like, like, up, like that two minutes of up. Yeah. That hits different. Yeah. Right. But if you can show it, you don't have to say it.

And it was so succinct and so beautiful. And you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. It gives us a launching point. It makes you want to say like, okay, I want to know more about that story. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like this episode just in general is kind of a meditation on grief, right? Yeah. From my character's perspective, you know, we're jumping back in time, which again, I think is a huge clue to the audience that we're not telling this story and, you know, the fashion that you're sort of expecting. We jump back in time to Jack and Rebecca just about to leave the hospital. They have fostered, adopted Randall. He's part of the family.

And you can see that Rebecca is despondent, obviously. She just lost a child. She's overwhelmed all of the hormones of giving birth and going through what she just went through or coursing through her. And Jack is, you know, in typical Jack fashion, just sort of like. Moving forward. Exactly. Moving forward, making the most of things. He's excited. He's ready to go get the car, get the baby's home. Everything is looking great. And I think Rebecca is just swimming in a sea of just utter, like underwater. Yeah. Postpartum shock. Correct. And so I feel like we're starting to, we're invited in a little bit on the beginning of her journey of the grieving process of like just the juxtaposition of becoming a new parent. having lost a child, you know, bringing another child into the family, still going home with

three babies. Like it's, it's, it's, I, I, it's unfathomable. It was so hard as an actor to put myself in those shoes of just like, where do you begin? Where, like, what emotion do you find first? It's so, nothing is tangible. You just say you can't hold on to anything. You're in quicksand. So I think from that perspective, and then obviously your character learning over the course of the episode, what's really ailing William and that it's... Yes. Things are not looking good. I mean, there's so many different, like, forms of grief that I think these characters

are in the midst of, you know, dealing with. You're being asked to put the bonding with Randall sort of above the grief that you have for Kyle. If we, just as so go, the three, triple Kevin, Kate, and Kyle. and Randall is named Kyle at that time. But I'm just going to refer to Kyle as the child that did not make it, the son that did not make it for the sake of clarity. Conversation, yes, yes.

And it's like, you know what? This decision was made as a family or whatever, your husband being the driving force of that. And you're like, okay, let's do it. But it's like, I haven't really had time to process to fully grieve this one thing before you're asking me to do this next thing. And the transparency of Rebecca and being, like, I'm not connecting with this kid.

Yeah. He's not taking, I can't feed him or anything. And then Jack, very willingly, like, look, it takes into, look at how fast I connected to you, but very sweet. But at the same time, I don't necessarily need sweet right now. No, that is not helpful. I need time to actually move through this thing. And I need an answer.

Like, I need to know what to do. I can't imagine now, of course, like pulling back the lens of, like, what it means to be a parent and how overwhelming that that. that initial time is and not knowing what you're doing, not having any of the answers, having to deal with the complications of all of that on top of it is just, it is unfathomable, truly. We've all brought home one baby, one healthy baby at a time. Yeah.

And experienced trauma and rupture between our, you know, I mean, I can't speak for anybody else. Sure, yeah. The marriage is now a new thing. and how I relate to my son and how my son relates to Rachel. How you work together, all of it. I can't imagine having to do that times three while also having lost a child.

Yeah. Sidebar, I have a friend who in his wife were having difficulties getting pregnant or whatever. And so they had a little bit of help, and they wound up having triplets, right? Wow. And then, so they went off of whatever they were utilizing to get those triplets, but the pump had been primed, so to speak, got pregnant again with twins.

Within a year, they had five children under the age of two. So we will be starting a go-fund meet, babe. For this angelic couple. That is wild. They're all, they've all graduated college. Oh my gosh. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This hasn't a long time ago, but like, what a feat. Wow. Mom and dad must pat themselves on the back every day. They have to. Somebody better. They have to. I think about that so often, though, in this particular case, like, we're all so lucky that we have children and families in the day and age where it is really encouraged.

Like, it takes a village. Everyone deserves to have support. Like, lean on who you need to lean on. And in this case, I thought about this throughout the, entirety of the series. Like, we're talking about a woman who took care, who raised three children with no help, no support, a husband who had a full-time job. Like, the onus was on her to do everything. And it's just, I mean, my hats was always off to her. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, raising three kids anyway sounds challenging, but three kids all at once feels insurmountable.

It does. In its own way. I'm going to interject, hopefully this comes off as a bit of levity because I think we dodged one of the most incredible bullets in network television history by not naming three children. KKK? I'm just saying I don't pay any attention at all

and I'm supposed to be, I'm like highly attuned to this stuff. And then I was like, ooh, we got away with this. White family. If they're adopted Black Sun, the third K. You know what I'm saying? I was like, that Dr. K must have been really charming for nobody. There's a few people that were like, you're really going to name your three children.

KKK. What if that had been Williams' response? I think the problem with bonding is... KKK, do you hear it? Give him his own name. That doesn't start with a kid. We dodged that bullet. We made it through.

Let me speak a little bit about that grief, too. Because it's interesting. I'll go macro with the show, because sometimes people would get to a place where to be like, why are they always complaining about their dad? Like, you got to move on. You got to, like, you can't let that be the thing, right? And I feel like sometimes people will find frustration in that.

I think sometimes, interestingly enough, the things that you're frustrated with are the things that you want to keep furthest away. Sure. Right? Because the way people process varies from individual to individual, and it takes as long as it needs to take in order to move on

in a way that doesn't feel flippant or dismissive that will resurface later on in life but that feels fully processed and as at peace as one can be. Sure. Right? And so you have these three kids

that find out they've lost their dad, what have you, but in terms of Randall, sorry, we're on 103 now. Spoiler. They know. They know. I throw this fit every time you guys. Guys! Some people might be watching it for the first time.

In terms of Randall and sort of bringing William back into his life, right? The thing that always sort of like struck me about Randall is he articulates this frustration in the pilot of how angry he is, but yet he drove to see him. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Sure. All he really wants is connection. And as we sort of like see Randall throughout time, like you see how important. important being with family, having thanksgivings or Christmases and those sort of things.

Like he likes to have life and family and love sort of like abounding in his presence, right? In the course of his season, we have William, brother later, et cetera, et cetera. So it's part of who he is. And it's interesting because he reminds me a lot of my brother, who's very much the same way. He put so much pressure on himself to make sure that the family is taken care of, right? The idea of after 36 years of finding someone to bring back into your life just to lose them, right? Like, he's not even able to articulate. It's like, what's this going to happen to my children?

Like, I'm bringing this man just for them to, like, not have a relationship. And his wife's like, what about you? Yeah. bro, like, are you going to be okay? I mean, he's going to fight like tooth and nail, as his mom, or as Rebecca says later on, to make sure that this outcome isn't the outcome that it's inevitably going to be. And it takes for him to be able to be at peace at it. He has to do everything.

Otherwise, the thought that would linger in his head is like, I could have done. I could have done. I could have done. I could have done. Sure. You know what I'm saying? So as someone who lost their dad at an early age, right? And you had a dear friend who passed away at 21. Like you ask yourself these interesting questions in terms of like,

if I had called more, could that have gone differently? Or, you know, if I had spent more time with my dad, if I asked them to come outside and blah, blah, blah. And for anybody who has asked those questions, like I just want to give them permission and peace to be like you did everything you were supposed to do. Certain things are beyond your control and learning how to be okay with that

is its own journey. I was just about to say that. Like I think the connection that people have with the show specifically around grief is that we are giving them permission. Yeah. Like they're able to see themselves in these characters and just the idea that they're able

to see all these different examples of how people tackle it in different ways, I think allows them the perspective of like, oh, there is no right way and there is no right time, which I don't know, I feel like is a great connection point. It was a joke I used to make, but it's, I also mean it seriously, and people used to say that the show is sad, and I used to say, the show is not sad, you're sad. Life is sad. Like, life is sad. And the reason you. you're having this response to it is because there's something in this that you relate to. Yeah.

Like there's something in it, there's something in you that you are either currently going through or something that you're avoiding going through. Yeah. That this is picking out. Yeah, it's touching a nerve. Yeah. Do you like that? It's good.

I get the picking. That's a good picking, actually. Kate's singing. Oh. And punching the crap out of Toby when he walked over in the bathroom. That was, I will say this. my wife and I have this thing every once in a while where I will sort of like startle her

throughout the house. She loves it. No, she does it? We'll have her on. We'll have her on as a guest. We'll have her on. She was on the show. That's right. She was on the show. That's right. And she has come close to doing that to me on a couple of occasions. She's like, ah! One of these days. She clocked you. Then the next

first of all, she's talk about Metz's voice who had not had a recording career at this time. but like I think Dan heard her sing it's like what you do around a writer be careful because they're going to be like

so you can do that and then it becomes like a major storyline and when we get we can get to it but I'll just say when she sings time after time

and the way in which she's sort of like enters into it and the way she grows and confidence that she sings it first of all the invitation to do it. Like, Tobias was the king of the grand gesture before Jack. Oh, certainly. Episodically. To the audience.

To the audience. Emphosodically, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, the things that you would do, it was gentle, but it was like, no, no, you, I know it. I see it in you. But it is also borderline, like she says in the episode, crazy. That's a lot. It's a lot. The carpet, the car, like, it. It's interesting to watch him push the boundaries of, like, what he's trying to, like, chip away at. Yeah. What he's trying to chip away at. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With Kate, because she points it out, too, her resistance to it is not necessarily unfounded. When you see the potential in an individual, it's almost like you're like, the world should be privy, right? And, like, I don't want to put a big pressure on it. Like, we'll go to a retirement home. You know, where my aunt, Dolly? Dolly? I'm Dolly. Hello, Dolly.

Hats off. I don't know who she was, but she gave a look. Watch out, gentlemen. She's a wildcat, and this lady goes. She gave a look that was so priceless in that episode. I was like, you better act. You better act. That was her audition right there.

But I don't know, man. Like, I'm actually moved by Toby's, I think the word I'm looking for is generosity. Yeah. you're not overlooking someone who I think is typically overlooked. Sure. I think that's what it is about it. And I think I'm also like Sterling is coming at it from like a sort of fraternal place of like my sister has been accustomed to being overlooked by a lot of people. And there's something that really opens up in my heart about somebody who sees her, not just for like her shape and size, but who sees her.

Right. And it's like, you should share me. Yeah. You are special. Let's share it. Yeah. Your brother's cool and all, but you, outside of all of that, are something. Yes, because the next thing is she's feeding you food that you don't want to eat.

Mm-hmm. And then Kevin comes in and is like, eat this guy? Completely doesn't see me. Does he? You don't get up. I'm like, first of all, first of all, six foot four, 400 pounds. You've, I'm right here. That's how self-centered you have to be

To not see that person He does it so well I didn't see you there He does it so well And then he takes a bite of like Whoever's food It wasn't his food Right?

Takes a bite of my pancake You're eating this And you said I'm trying to get some sex I'm trying to get some sex man There's that horny Toby again Tobias be dropping bars Just a whole comes back

Just comes back to Listen man I'm just trying to get some sex It's but so That's what you say Because Toby's filled is one of comedy, right? He's a bit of an arm's length guy.

Yes. Which I also can be guilty of, where it's like the way that I, the way that I connect with people, but at a distance is through comedy. Yes. But when you see later on, because as that storyline unfolds,

and we'll go back and forth, but you recognize the relationship between Kate and Kevin is an interesting one, Because it starts off in the episode, these two can only sleep if they're in the thing with each other. Yeah, Milo says that. Right.

And you're like, okay. So they are closely connected in that way from birth. Yes. From the womb. From the womb. They shared the same hot tub for nine months. That's right. That's right.

Dr. Kay. It's good writing. Dr. Kay. And so, and now that that has played itself out over time in such a way that, like, he sees his sister and does not see the same. six, four, four hundred pound man literally right in front of him. And that you as someone who wants to have a meaningful relationship, this was an interesting thing. I want to talk about this just briefly because it plays itself out over time.

The way that the audience related to Toby was somewhat complicated because sometimes they were wondering if they could trust that he was attracted to someone who looked like Kay. Right? And people were very like, what's he trying to do? Like, I don't understand his angle. What's his ulterior motive? What's his ulterior motive? You know what I'm saying? Rather, like, can he actually be a genuine dude? Which is part of the bias that we have against people who are overweight, that they are non-sexual, non-romantic individuals. And so that's why I just want to, when I see these moments that remind me, Sterling has love for Chris, Randall has love for. for Tobias, but like the two intersect in a lovely way because it was kind, right? Was it forceful? Like sometimes like with your kids or whatever, you're like, I know this kid can do something. I'm not relating to that you're treating her like a child. This is my imperfect analogy, if you will.

It's like you want them to realize the fullness of their potential, but they have to be provided a form and an opportunity in order to allow that to be. And you've picked like one of the safest. spaces that you could while still being public, but not so public that there are cameras around and everything else. Right. Because I know you can do it. Right.

That's just cool. No one's given you the opportunity otherwise. Yeah. And it is interesting to sort of echo to, we don't know this about Jack yet and the grand gestures. Right. But it is interesting like, oh, so she's choosing a man much like her father. Yeah.

We talked about that and you'll maybe see it in the development of my... Seasons is, as Toby loses weight and the beard comes in, I talked even to costumes about slowly mimicking Jack's clothes. Hmm. Interesting. Like him slowly becoming more like her dad. Wow. So I don't know if it plays. I don't know.

Oh, I'm going to be watching. Yeah. Different perspective. More that was us after these words from our sponsors. I am always trying to do right by my body. So when it comes to my hair and scalp health, finding a product that actually works and is made with clean ingredients

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and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash T-W-U. Okay, this brings, my next note, it just says simply Rebecca and Randall. Because if Kevin had That's Kate. Man, Randall got him some Rebecca like, no. He's got the mom. They have each other.

We have each other. It's like me and you must never part. Mandy, my question, because you're originally, let's get like a little backstory here, the timeline, you know, you're coming in, you're playing this woman in the past, whatever. Okay, I'm jumping forward eight, eight years. That's fine. That's pretty much still me. Talk to me about how, like, it was language to you present day. Rebecca and like how it all played itself out.

Yeah, that was, that was tricky because I got a call about three weeks before we started shooting the second episode, this was like the summer of 2016, that they wanted me to go through hair and makeup trials to sort of see if they could land on a look that felt believable for me to play the present day version of Rebecca. Yeah. And I was like, what? Was there a moment where they might cast someone else? Yes, yes.

Yeah. The idea was if it wasn't believable, if anyone had objections from producers, studio, whomever, that they would cast a more age-appropriate actress to play that iteration of Rebecca. And so I kind of, I didn't feel one way or another. I was like, I mean, I would love the challenge, but also like I want to do what's best for the show. I don't want it to feel gimmicky or, you know, like I'm in costume. I don't want to obviously, like, take people out of the show. Yeah. So I remember there were so many hair and makeup tests.

How many did you do? I mean, I want to say, like, sick? Yeah. Which is a lot when you're talking, like, it's five hours to put it on. And, I mean, they went, it was like Goldie Locks and the Three Bears. Like, initially, it was like a full face mask. Yeah. And, like, a crazy long wig.

And, like, full. Like Mrs. Doubtfire. Totally. It was Mrs. Doubtfire. Totally. It was that. And I was like, this, they can't, this can't be the direction. Of course, that was vetoed immediately.

Yeah. And so it was like just trying to find the perfect, like, happy medium. Do you think that the hair makeup part would share photos of those? I mean, I don't know so photos. You got some? Uh-huh. Oh, you do. Okay, cool.

Oh, yeah. A different wig. Sure. Great, great. A different prosthetic, like, makeup house that the folks that, like, actually make the prosthetics was brought in after that initial fitting because I think they were like, we really want to pair this down

and make it as natural and believable as possible. But I do remember the very first thing that we filmed, once it had all been approved by the Powers of B was the scene with Ron Cephas Jones.

Yeah. And I was petrified. I was like, really, this is the first thing that you're going to throw at me is like... Side by side. Yeah, jumping into like

the depths with a master, I was, I was, do it all the hand movements. I was throwing all the arms out. That's so great. I was so terrified because I felt like it really hinged on, like me playing this character at that age really hinged on this going, okay, and for people to be like, cool, we got it. And that is what ended up being the case, obviously, but it was not without like terrible

trepidation. I tried to prepare as best as possible, but it was just, like, terrifying. After watching the third episode again, I was wondering. I was like, I wonder if there's some evolution. Like, I wonder if, like, when I see this, because you arrived, right? And then I wonder how the older Rebecca is going to evolve over the six seasons. And you show up in that scene. Really? Yeah. Like fully real, well, to our eyes fully realized. Sure. Okay. Like, there's a, I don't know, I can't put my finger on it, but there's a, there's a, a, a gentleness in your physicality. Mm-hmm. That was so, I did think a lot about the physicality.

That was so specific to an older woman. Yeah. It was just, it was really great. Vocal differences, like the placements. Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit. Masterclass.

Use Hatton. Use Hinton for that drive, man. Let's say, let's say right now, you, in this show, you play six, 16. Yes. And 90. That one shot with the pigtail. And 90 years old. You played nobody in television has ever done that. No. No, it's true. What I found really interesting to, like, you spoke to this in an earlier episode where you walked into the writer's room and the chronology of this family was sort of like taped up on the top of the ceiling that sort of went around the room in the writer's room. And it was for all of us to. to like center ourselves and the writers obviously too, like just huge milestones for the family. And so I found that to be so helpful. And also we were invited into the writer's room whenever we wanted. But we would have these meetings at the beginning of the season where the

writers would sort of like and showrunners would lay out like this is what's happening to your character. Do you want to know about other characters? And I was like, yes, I want to know everything because it all sort of feeds into the life of a mother. But this was such a good indication because, you know, we found out obviously, in my character's case, like, this is a woman who lost a child. That is something you never rid yourself off. That is something she carries with her till the day she died. And, you know, also you come to realize in this episode that she knows Randall's birth father. There is a relationship there.

there is history. There is a lot unspoken. There was this agreement between the two of them. And so this is a woman who has also carried that shame and that guilt and that secret around for all these years. And it's just like keeping that in mind and keeping that in my body and also like having to sort of separate myself, Mandy, from the character because I just felt so much empathy. for her, for William, for

everybody involved and not letting that permeate the character. I always found that was the hardest. Like, not letting my feelings permeate how the character was feeling. But it does give you just a real deep dive into like what this woman

was carrying around with her. And I had to again separate the like disagreement I found with her. Like I don't agree with the way that she was doing her level best, right? All of us are at any given time, right? She was doing what she thought was best for her family, what she thought she could handle.

And as a human, I looked in on that story and was like, I just don't agree. That's so hard for me to reconcile that this woman knew who her child's birth father was and she didn't allow him into the picture and in his life, like what a disservice, just the sliding doors of that of what could have been. I have massive amounts of empathy for it.

Completely. Because at the time, too, it's still unclear, like, she meets him. Yeah. She understands that there's addiction involved. Correct. She's being protective. Right. So, and even William says it was the right deal.

We made the right deal. Sure. Yeah. But, yeah. But I'm sure that it lingered the doubt, the shame, the guilt. All of it lingered in her forever. The thing that it was such a process for you to get to the, point where you could have connection with him, right, that the idea that somebody could come

along and sort of like deprive you of it is like, I'm still trying to work, we're still trying to figure something out, me and this boy. Yeah. So the idea that you could come along and sort of disrupt that is not something I need in the back of my head. Yeah. He's my son. Yeah. And I need to like make that as concretized as possible. Sure. Yeah. Also, for people rewatching, go back and and watch just the moment, before you realize that you and William have history, go back and watch the moment where you tell her that you found your father. Yeah. You play, she played that moment flawlessly.

There's this hidden, like, panic that comes over your face that you stuff immediately. Yeah. And what's he like? Yeah. But it's so subtle. This is a moment. I'm sure she never thought she'd have to reconcile with her entire life. Like, for all intents and purposes, this was a secret she was going to her grave with.

Jack never knew. And so no one else was ever going to know. It was a secret between the two of them. And that was, you know, as far as it went. There's also, okay, so that's our first scene as mom and son together. In present day, my first time working together. In present day or whatnot. You were so in it.

Like at no point in time. Many more is eight years younger than your boy. at no point in time I was like this isn't going to work I was just like yeah we're safe and really sort of like did it to me

because I go in I introduce you guys to each other and you say you know sweetheart can we have some time by yourself like you just dismissed me like grown folks

need to talk now and I was like okay I'm gonna get out I'll be downstairs sorry you know what I'm saying so I do believe

your performance was unsung but what's the the annals of television history, people will go back and be like, what that woman did was something special. That means a lot from you guys, please. Yeah, it was incredible. I remember during this time, it was the first little bout of really feeling the negativity

towards Rebecca, which I understood. There was a, the first season had an interesting sort of thing to it. I think Jack was so heroic. Yeah. And some of the decisions that Rebecca made did. really sit well with people. I think they thought that she put, you know, her career aspirations and later, you know, episodes before her family. And in this case, I think people obviously, again, understandably didn't agree with the way that she handled having a relationship

and knowing who Randall's birth father was. But this was such a different time. We didn't have the same sorts of resources and information that we all would have now. Let's say if we were fostering or adopting a child and so it just I feel like I have a lot of empathy in that regard as well that like she was really just trying her level best it was a one-two punch with the Miguel reveal and the William and the William reveal yes yes for Rebecca's character it was like it was like wait what yeah you wound up with your husband's best friend and you knew who your son's daddy was and kept it from him yeah yeah she was she did not curry favor with people at that point.

Pursona non grata for a little while. So in these first episodes, I know you talked about having to play a mother. Yeah. But also the logistics of literally handling. Children, babies. I had never changed a diaper before, guys. Milo had to literally show me how to change a diaper. How did Milo know?

Because he has nieces and nephews. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. He had way more. on experience and I was like, I don't know how to do this. I don't know. I mean, swaddling I'm still terrible at, but like...

So some of the panic was real. It was all real. Yeah. It was very real. I'm like, I have someone else's children here that I have to safeguard and I don't know how to put a diaper on. Someone else's children, that's, it's amazing. Yeah.

People don't think about that. They're watching like, yeah, mom and dad are sitting right over there. Yeah. With bassinet's full of babies. Yeah. Waiting for their turn. Waiting for their turn. Because like, we went through this period.

this is just a sidebar of like having real babies on set for years and years and years then COVID came and then we had like dolls for some time and then we got back to babies at the very end there right so there was a very interesting evolution

and I only had a couple of babies to work with you had three you know because that's how many kids you have I had to and I'd had and I'd had babies at that point in time too. And it was such a

it was interesting. I'm jumping, but this is an important thing because I used to, I love, like people say the animals and babies. Oh, yeah. I remember when you gave me your baby, I was like, Mandy, let me hold her baby. And I remember when we got to a storyline later on where

Kate and Toby were thinking about having a baby and, oh, I had a baby. And I remember watching Chris hold a baby. And I was like, Chris want a baby. I've all... Yeah, yeah.

I love baby. Yeah, I remember I said... It's socially unacceptable for a man of my size and beard. It is. To be like, do you mind if I hold your baby? But it's one of those things where from man to man, I saw I came up to you. I came up to, I said, you want one of those. Oh, yeah.

He's like, I'm working. Yeah. Children's response to me all depends on how they feel about giants and, and and beards. And beards. Their dad usually has to have a beard. if we're going to get along. That feels familiar to them.

So, okay, in the previous episode, we have Beth talking about how her husband's superpowers his goodness. And then you have Rebecca telling William, like, you better be worth it because my son's going to do everything in his power to make sure that you're going to be okay. And the next thing you see is William walking down the street. And this was

an interesting thing to rewatch. because John and Glenn are directors of these first two episodes will give you a lot of different options and takes and maybe they'll throw, like, maybe you want to say this, maybe you want to say that, or they'll just let it run for a second and give you an opportunity to do something. And it's funny because I'm trying to get him in this car, you know,

and he's a little bit judgmental in terms of, like, what kind of medical professionals you've had at your disposal. And I'm like, I can do something here. Just give me a chance to see if it'll be more effective. And then there's the people in the neighborhood who are watching. And I said, how white people

is a friendly neighborhood black man? And that's not scripted? Oh, that's my question. That's not scripted. But, like, it was one of those moments when I saw that they let it in, I was like, oh, they're giving me a little bit of space to see, like, if I have something,

I can go ahead and present it. Which was a cool feeling for me because every once in a while, you'll have an idea, you're like, oh, try it. And sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. And you just kind of throw it out there to see what happened. But for me, too, it wasn't just a matter of trying to be funny,

but it was also really hammering home, this feeling of otherness that is something that you can carry around with you quite often when you are in predominant white spaces and you're one of the few raisins, if not the only reason, in the sun, right? And so having these sorts of conversations with your bio father in front of people is like, I don't like this. Get in the car, please, there's good white people watching those too late. Were those conversations, though, that you went into the writer's room and talked about outright?

Yeah, absolutely. I think Dan is just sort of highly attuned to it too. And I said this in a speech once, like it wasn't a character who was written black by happenstance, but his race and ethnicity

were a part of the story. So I think in my mind, anything that I did that served that wasn't superfluous. It was part of who he was. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. There's an incredible amount of trust too

that John and Glenn, not at this point in the series, but maybe, because they did a couple at the end of season one. Yeah. And they said to me at one point, they were like, just so you know, you guys, you all have this.

Like, you're going to, this is going to go a long time. And there's going to be a lot of directors to come and go who, who, will give you direction and you should take it if you think that it is right but know that you know this person better than anybody yeah because you're living inside them yeah and they were the first people that that said to me so just do what you think is right like and I hadn't because of my lack of television experience at this time I was like read the words do the thing

yeah you know same don't don't throw the pot show up but they gave me just that little bit of freedom to inhabit the character fully and to really investigate, okay, well, what do I really want to bring of myself to this person? So we've had this conversation before. We both sort of agree on the 87% sort of thing,

which is basically we say the majority of what's on the page and then a lot of it just kind of like, hey, showtime. For you, I'm curious. Are you a dead letter? Do you try to just say what? there? Do you feel anything in the moment that like just kind of like comes out? I'm pretty much I stick to the page. Yeah. I mean, I think you both are just so naturally

confident and funny. Thank you. That maybe you guys feel like you do have a little bit more like wiggle room and freedom. Yeah. I always felt like not confined to the page, but I was like, this is great. I'll stick to this. It's also the character too. Like our characters are, we're a little more shoot from the hip. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. Then Rebecca. When Jack is talking to Dr. Kay, he says, I think she might be a little broken.

Yeah. My wife. I just got to give it up to Molo Ventimile. Like, and the doctor's like, you know, normally the mother comes in with these things. Like, what's going on? He's like, yeah, you know, thinks she might need her to break, whatnot. And you see him just being overwhelmed, almost feeling. like a single dad. He's not, but in this moment, he's feeling like a single dad because

he's like, I don't know if I have a partner in this right now because I think she's a little broken. Yeah. He got me. I'm just saying like the dude got me. He searches for the word broken just a little bit because he can't come up with, he doesn't know how to describe it. Yeah. Yeah. And later in the episode, and it's short-lived, but just like, this is the second time we've seen Jack likes to sit and sleep on floors. Yeah. Because in 102, because in 102, Sue, he camped out outside of the bed. Like a little puppy dog. I'm like, I'll be right here.

I was like, are we going to make this a thing? We're always sitting on the floor. I sleep on floor. I don't know to tell you. Yeah, I mean, we kind of do. You come in, you turn on the light. You see him in the background. I think you're going to come back.

And I was like, Jack, get off the floor. It'd been great if it became a running joke. There's also a new family with not a ton of furniture in that episode. Yeah. Yes. We'll be right back with more. That was us. When my cats are healthy and happy, that makes me happy.

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without you. Yeah. Come on, man. It's like, look, she's like, she's like, look, I'm working through this stuff with the kids. Me and you're going to be okay. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. But to be able to, I think it gives a wonderful sense of permission. And you tell me, Mandy, if you went through anything like this or if you wish to share. But I'll say that my wife had a bit of postpartum after having the babies, with each one, both to varying degrees. And it's something people don't talk about.

It's something like you're supposed to just immediately be in love fully, with no exception, da-da, that's the end of the story. And for a lot of people, that is exactly the case. And then for some people, it's a little bit different. And I think being able to see Rebecca go through that gives permission to be like, I'm not a psychopath, I'm not broken or damaged. I'm not a bad mother. I'm a human being figuring this stuff out.

real time. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it is a profound chemical shift in your body, like on a cellular level. It's like everyone should be given the permission as a new parent to feel all of that and to not think that one person's journey is the staple is the only way. Yeah. And so you're right. I think as our show often did, it gave people this perspective and, and, you know, just the permission, the keyword of just like this is this is also a way for it to unfold and for it to look. Yeah. I don't know if these, I don't know if our show

had anything to do with it, but these conversations seem to come I remember reading a New York Times article this actor who I know from the theater community in New York had written about her miscarriages. And it was just people they didn't know how to talk about it. More specifically, you don't know when to talk about it

because it's a tricky, thing, right? Because when Rachel's pregnant, at no point do we want to discuss the possibility of that happening. Yeah, of course. I mean, there's a great deal of patriarchy and sexism involved and lack of information on women's health and women's health research and things like that. But the, like you were talking about, that chemical. Change, shift, everything. You're this unit. And then you're broken apart, and now there's this piece of you living outside of you. But there's also this, this grown man who still wants to be your boyfriend. You know, I was trying so hard to be, like, helpful. I was like, when Bear was born, you know, I was like, I'm an employee. I'm an

employee in this house. Yeah. I do chores. I get things done. I chop wood, I carry water. Now, it took me a while to realize that. There was some pouting involved. There was some, hurt feelings there was some like what is going on here can i just get can i appreciate this admission may i please have just 10 seconds of eye contact yeah yeah yeah um which is another side of this this parenting thing that doesn't get talked about the same bonding thing because i had a friend right when we started who had just had a baby and he was like chris before we were pregnant I wasn't sure I wanted to have a baby. The day he was born, I didn't want, wasn't sure I want to have a baby.

He's nine months old now. I'm still not sure I want to have a baby. Like, cool. Like, and that's not, nobody wants to hear that. Sure. Nobody wants to hear that you're like not, like, not have any relationship with this baby. Yeah. That is your son or your daughter or whoever it is.

Yeah. And it's, like you said, you're expected to be, oh my God, is it the best thing that's ever happened to you in your life? Right. Actually, right now it's one of the worst. Yeah. I know it would probably get better. Our marriage was going great.

Even the pregnancy was great. And now this? Yeah. And you were pregnant during the pandemic? Yeah. My wife was pregnant during the pandemic. So there's all, obviously, there were added. Stressors?

Stressors and restraints. Slightly? To global disease on, on, uh, mating in captivity. But, yeah, it's all of, all of this grief conversation and the way that everyone processes it from Rebecca's perspective, from Jack's perspective, people trying to make things work,

people trying to protect their son from outside, whatever. Like, it's just, it's the when with these conversations. We don't know when is the right time. And the interesting part about this show was that it gave context. And if you never had a time to talk about it, the perfect time to talk about it was after an episode of television that you just saw.

I had, you know, Arien, Moed. Yeah. He used to watch the show with his daughters. And he was like, this is great because every episode gives us the context for a conversation I need to have with them anyways. That's pretty cool. And so we watch it together,

and then we talk about the episode and how they feel about it and how they feel about these topics. And it's like the perfect familial, Forum for it. Yeah. More than anything that I think most of it has been a part of, you heard how it brought families together

to be able to enter into a conversation about something that they didn't even realize that they needed to have. There was a time where I was at one of these Comic-Con conventions, actually with Milo. We were both at this convention. And the show was in the first season. And this couple walked up to the take. to my table to talk to me, not about Guardian of the Galaxy, about this is us.

And they each had a newborn strapped to their chest, the mom and the dad. And I said, oh my God, twins. And the mom said, actually, triplets. Oof. And we had a moment. And they didn't say anything else. I didn't say anything else. And I just said, I'm so sorry.

And we started talking. And what they said to me, and Milo was next to me, a table next to me, we didn't. there's nobody we know who we could talk to about this. Oh, yeah. There's nobody we know who's been through this. And then this show comes on TV and walks, on a weekly basis, walks us through the recovery process. And that was when I was just like, this is more than just a dramatic. Yeah.

You would think this scenario is so specific. So specific. Who could this show apply to? And yet you met them. Oh, my God. And they were like, they were learning, like we've talked about, the solutions. How are we going to do this? And week by week, they would tune in to figure out, okay.

Yeah. Real world application. Yeah. The codependency of Kevin and Kate, we sort of reach a boiling point because Toby and his grand gesture pays off. she feels like something that she hasn't been able to get in touch with for a while. Toby is inches from sex. About to knock these boots. Finally.

And the phone rings. And she has to answer it because she knows it's her brother. Right? Yeah. Foyled again. If it wasn't for those pesky kids. But what I love about how this whole thing plays out is because you tell her like, I'm not here to play games.

Yeah. Like, I may come off in a very particular way, but, like, I'm here. I don't do this. Yeah. For just anyone. For just anybody. Like, I'm here because I'm, I'm for real, for real. Yeah.

And you're like, I'm not going to play second banana to your brother. And she goes, like, you have to. Everybody does, right? And you're like, well, they're gum. But then you talk about timing. Like, Kev winds up telling her, she comes over and she diffuses, um, What's Elaine? Crazy Elaine or something like that.

And she's like, yeah, well, you called me and Toby did this thing for me, and it was great. And I had to come because you called and you're like, wait, you were about to, you were in the midst. You answered the phone? Yeah, you answered the phone. And she's like, yeah, of course I did. And he just said, you're fine. You're fine. She's like, what?

She's like, yeah, you're fine. Yeah, like my assistant or whatever. What's that? Like, I got to go. You don't have to go. Like, just the timing of it, Justin's delivery of it, like sort of just like, sort of just like, I'm pulling you down. You know?

Like you have something available to you. Because she says, I don't know who I am. Without you. If I'm not your sister. Yeah. And he goes, I do. You're going to like her. Mm-hmm.

Man, this day don't show you. Because it's all in the delivery too, right? On face value, you're like, okay, that's a good line. But then the way Justin packages it. There's something about the writing. that is so sentimental that tiptoes on the edge of saccharin and never goes there. Yeah. Like, it never teeters over.

And performers like Justin, who just hold it down, like hold it. Yeah. And just deliver it. It's fantastic. And he lands in New York. He's like, yeah, he had to say, oh, he called. And then, oh, good, you didn't answer the phone. Maybe you're having some six.

This was the greatest line to live. and the history of television. Checks. It should be, I should make that his ringtone for when he calls. He calls a lot, just if anyone is wondering, Justin and I.

Best friends, calls me all the time. It was so sweet, too, because we have that moment of, like, twins feeling things and, like, the plane touches down, and he comes up, and then she wakes up, and you say everything, okay, he's like, yeah, he's fine, we're fine. Yeah, and he goes to sleep.

I don't know. I just, I love that. I love it, too. I love that. And then you see Randall taking William to the hospital and hearing all the blood tests, doing everything that they can to find out if there's any sort of treatment that can be done or what have you. And at the end of the day, it's as William said, it's inoperable. The fate is going to be what the fate is. And Randall's talking to his wife and he's putting together a puzzle. that I was like I don't know what I did all this for

like I bring this man in here to die so like what his grandkids get to know him and then grieve him and Randall gets a little for climp there and it takes off his glasses and she has this way of just like putting her hands on your face and like rubbing the tear

and she's done it to me a few times throughout the course of the show and each time it happens I was like I feel loved I just have to say I feel loved coming through her hands. You know, she's just being taken care of.

I feel like that's such an awesome thing that you said in the first episode. You see people taking care of each other. And this is just another example of that. Is this the part of the podcast where we ask people to rate and review? And subscribe. And subscribe. Yeah. Subscribe, guys.

If you guys want us to do all a hundred and how many? Six. Six episodes. We got to, this was the number one show on television. We need to make this the number one podcast. on podcast networks on podcast networks so not only the people that you watch the show with tell them about the podcast let's rewatch the show together it does help if you write reviews to bump us up sure bump us up the the charts and please rate with with five stars only

only five stars if you're going to rate anything else then forget I said anything we also have our email which is that was us pod and at gmail.com where we want to hear your stories. We want to hear how you relate to the show. We want video. We want audio. We might even throw some of it up here on this screen. We're here to answer questions as well.

Yeah. We have a phone number and emotional hotline. If you want to share anything that the show brought up for you or anything that's going on in your life right now, we would love to help you process as the show helped so many of us. Sure. Please give us a call at 412-501-3028. And if there are specific episodes that are coming down the line that you have questions about or stories about, please include that because we want to get as granular and specific as possible. We enjoy doing this.

I love being with you guys. The pleasure is my ma'am, sir. That was us. All right, gang, we're about to enter into our fan segment for episode three. and episode three dealt a lot about grief. So, at this time, what we want to do is really just breathe with you. Yeah, actually, we can do a little breath work right now,

as long as you're not driving and listening. Maybe if you're sitting and listening, you could close your eyes, and we could take a couple of deep breaths and discuss what grief means to us. So if we take a deep breath in on a three count and hold it for three and out for three. And you can repeat that as many times as you would like. Hmm.

Okay. Yeah, that was really good, actually. I think I needed that. Yeah. Sure other folks needed that, too. There's a little reset and makes space for a moment of stillness in the day, whether in your car or at home or anywhere else, that moment was just for you. In this episode today that we are discussing,

we saw the Pearson's navigate their feelings of sadness, grief, pain, sorrow. And for Rebecca and Jack, there's also a bit of light mixed in. because of course they are welcoming in baby Randall while mourning the loss of Kyle yeah similarly for Randall he has his biological father back in his life and that's the light but he is also in the process of dying and so there is also darkness

and dealing with darkness amidst the light can be especially hard Yeah, we grieve because we love. And when we lose someone we love, we have to learn how to live our lives amidst this newfound, empty space. And a sense of who we are is really bound up in that person. So to lose a child or a sibling, a parent, or a spouse implies two people. So when that person leaves, we may feel that we've lost a part of ourselves in the process. And that makes sense because we were part of a we, and now it's just an I.

So if you're in the midst of a grieving process and struggling, we encourage you to surround yourself with those you love and who love you and can be there for you and support you. you to seek the help you need. You do not have to do life alone. So let's take another moment of stillness and breathe in and allow yourself to just be and breathe out. Okay. Close your eyes if they're not closed already, unless you're, of course, you're driving. Just...

And keep your eyes on the road and, or pull over. Do what you have to do. You know what you have to do. Give yourself a hug. Seriously, connect, connect that circuit. Wrap your arms around yourself if you have to. There you go. Yeah, we just had a big, beautiful group hug.

I like that. Yeah. That was a group hug. That was a nice hug. I felt it. Right on. Connecting. All right, gang.

Until next time. Until next time. Thank you. Thank you. That was us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grinn Productions and Sarah Warehound. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.