That Was Us - Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

This week on That Was Us, Mandy, Chris, and Sterling break down all the family dynamics and emotional layers happening when the whole Pearson family visits Kevin at rehab and goes through therapy together. They chat about how introspection is uncomfortable and how motherhood can be the most rewarding but most challenging time. They also discuss “The New Big Three” (not to be confused with the That Was Us Big Three) and how Toby, Beth, and Miguel banded together in this episode. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing season two, episode 11, the fifth wheel. The Pearson's gather under unexpected circumstances. Jack surprises the family with a trip to the Poconos. When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex.

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It probably looks great. Everybody looks so good. Thanks. I'm happy to be amongst you people. Always. I must be doing something right. Amen. We're talking about the fifth wheel.

We just finished our Big Three trilogy. We ended off with Kevin getting in a DUI, not an accident, but pulled over by the police. And handcuffed? Handcuffed with my daughter. His niece. His niece. His niece in the back seat of the car, right? Yeah.

So we come to. this episode and what's the first thing that we see they're in the past in the background in the past I should say playing a little monopoly I like yeah though calling since we work in the industry calling our past the background it's part of our background it's so yeah yeah I'll stick with the past story the background actors in my in my story totally I am main character energy that's right that's right number one on my call sheet I cross out all the numbers of three fingers on my sheet.

Randall's getting glasses. He's concerned about his little Urkel jokes that could be coming. Rebecca and Kate, you can see there's a small thing of just trying to get her to eat as healthfully as possible. Yeah. Right? You know, hey, baby, let me give you an apple instead of whatever it was that you were about to ask for. Dad comes in. He's got great news.

He's like a friend of mine's got this cabin up in the polka nose. He's like he's going to give it to us for time being. We'll pick up Kevin. after we're there because he's at football camp, but we're going to go have a great time. And we realize that they were talking about the Pearson's. The famous cabin. Did you guys have a parent one or the other who would do stuff like this

without talking to the other parent? Not that it was not bad stuff, but it was like, oh, so that's just what's happening? I did not, did you? My dad would bring home strays. Really? I would bring up dogs and cats. Are you serious?

And just be like, hey, this cat. Yeah, my dad's a. sweetie for the animals. Oh, so, so my aunt would do that with, with animals. Yeah. Just a quick sidebar. She would do that with animals and she'd do it with people, too. What?

She was a foster mother, right? But she was also at that time in her life, and she's spoken about this, was dealing with substance abuse issues. So every once in a while, like she'd have a foster child, but she also was dealing with her addiction. She was like, hey, Arlene, would you watch the baby for me for a little bit? I got to go take care of some business. gone for a week. Yikes. And my mother called the social worker and said this baby is with

me and that baby is my little brother, Robert. Stop. And then the birth mother got pregnant again and the social worker contacted my mom and said, would you like to take these two children because the birth mother had twins and one of those twins is my little sister. The other one had SIDS passed away. But I'm saying this to say that the reason why I have a little brother and a little sister is because I have an aunt who's similar to your father, but the next level. Very next level. I don't even know if the levels can be talked about in this situation. The next level.

This is my aunt, I love her. Amazing. She's been clean for decades now, right? And she's doing exceptionally well. But that's how I wound up with a little brother and a little sister. Wow. Yeah. How has that story waited until 36th?

This is the first time I was thought to bring it up. What you said to think about your death? I love getting it. to know you. I'll just say that. I love getting to know you guys too. Yeah, the onion. There you go.

Just peeling away the layers. Layer after layer. Okay, so where were we? First trip to the cabin. Jump up to Cotoby. And it is the first time that you can. This is the introduction of Cotoby. Look at him.

Oh. It's so dumb. Your glasses are all fogged up. Sully is purposely fogging up his glasses by sticking his glasses into the Like the cup in the coffee, like this, and then cover it up. One of my favorite storylines. The point is, guys, check us out on YouTube. That's the point.

Check us out on YouTube. But it is the first time that we hear the term, Kotobie. Because I think it had been termed online first. Yes. And then I think the writers were like, that's not bad. Oh, did they take it from? They must have. I wonder how often that happens in TV history, where the audience gets to a, I mean, that's a big.

Yeah. That's a big effect. It is a big effect. It is a big. And I love your enthusiasm. Is that what we are now? Is that what we're doing? Yeah.

I love a good couple. I love a good one, right? Packing snacks for the plane, getting everything. Can we do our couple name? What are you? What's your couple name then? So it would be. Mailer?

Mailer. Mayler? Tandy. Tandy. Jessica Tandy. Tandy. And it would be. It doesn't work.

Sterling? I kind of like Stath. That's good. Staffe. Staffay is really good. What's yours? Rachel. I mean, I mean, Crachel?

Crachel. Crachel. Rully. Yeah. Rachel's good. Crachel sounds like a snack? Crachel sounds like a really good donut. Or a type of cereal?

You get this crachel? Or like a really healthy cereal on the other. Like, oh. Crachel. Why do you keep buying this? Got some almond milk for your crachel? Uh-huh. I got to keep going.

Go. You keep going and I'll keep going. Okay. So she's saying how she hasn't talked to Kevin in over a month. Because he's been in rehab. And you're saying that's how rehab goes, et cetera, et cetera. And so we realize now that he has been for a month in rehab, right? Packing snacks to go visit him on the plane.

We're all going to go see him, see how he's doing because I think he's supposed to be getting out, right? As they're leaving, Toby is taking out the trash. She's asking to take out the trash. It smells like booty hole. He picks up the trash. The trash bag rips and turns out... Did she say booty hole? No, she didn't say booty hole.

I was like, that's what I remember in my head. Got it was my interpretation. I don't think you say that on NBC. Anyway, it was... The bag rips open and there's a ton of junk food. Yeah, there's like a KFC bucket and a couple of other things. And you see Tobe sort of like, do I confront or do I sort of leave it alone for the time being? He decides to...

Now's not the time. Now's not the time. it alone, right? Randall and Beth check on test because since she's been in the backseat of a car with someone who is under the influence, they just want to make sure that she's in a good place. They don't know why she tried to leave in the first place, obviously dealing with not having Deja in the house and feeling sad about it, but she says, I'm fine, I'm sorry, I know it wasn't the smartest thing to do. You don't have to worry about me anymore, okay? Family sees each other for the first time at the rehab center. I get a chance to hug my sister.

um we wonder like kate's wondering like guys you don't know how he's going to look it may be terrible and he's never looked better never looked better mr hollywood just strolls out infuriating like he's been living the life charming people kate burton who the amazing actress that she is joins us as barbara the therapist um and as she says immediately that like you know it might be easier if we do this just with the immediate family so just your mom and your brother and sister and before anybody can really get that word and edgewise, Beth is like, yo, I never wanted to be here

in the first place. She's like, oh, let's get out of here as fast as we possibly care. This was an instant regret of my. As this, Staten was unfolding. I wish I had played Toby more disappointed that he didn't get to be part of the healing. Sure.

Because she was so excited to not be. Right. Actually, so was Miguel. It could have been point, yeah, yeah, no. Could have been point, count, and I really missed an opportunity there, and I apologize to you of yours. to myself.

I think they forgive you because she was like, she was hysterical. What are we on loss? Because they referred to the others. The others. The others. The others.

Yeah. Yeah. And you coined yourselves The new big three. The new big three. Yeah. Which I think was pretty cool. Yeah.

People loved that. So you're welcome for that. Welcome for that. You hit that one out of the park. So let's go back to the cabin. Yeah. And it seems like every reference that Kate,

is sort of going through with regards to why she likes the cabin has to do with food. We make s'mores over here, and dad goes to this ice cream place and da-da-da. And so Rebecca's sort of clocking it, trying to find, like, what's the right way to go about this thing? They had a little pow-bow, Jack and Rebecca. I was like, I'll try to get her to exercise more and do some things, et cetera. Next thing you see where... He's trying to, like, make her play football. We're outside.

It's Kevin and Jack and... Randall and mom are reading. They're playing football. Randall and Rebecca sitting next to each other. Just having the best time in a good old book, right? And you see Kate like, hey, man, why are we going right back to your brother? And McKenzie's like, why am I doing it? It's like, I don't even like this game.

Yeah, I don't like football. It's so awkward. Right? And so then he, this is, okay, so I want to pause for a second on this particular storyline because this is an interesting thing that I heard in the writer's room, couple of times. In terms of how do you best love your plus size family member? And what I mean by that is do you feel like you have to bring it up? Do you have to talk about it? Like do you encourage or do you say like, no, she already knows, they already know what they're going through, etc., is the

most loving thing to be silent? And I ask that sometimes because I would go home into the world and And they would be like, my question, people would ask me, is she well, right? Is she healthy? Meaning, meaning Kristen. And I was like, she's as healthy as I know she can be, right? And that's the answer that I gave to all those things. But I'm curious in terms of like this storyline in particular, as you see these two parents wrestle with, how best do they help their daughter, right, to be the healthiest version of herself?

Do you guys have any input experience with this conversation at all? I have no experience with it. Do you guys? No, I mean, I'm still working on it for myself. Yeah. I do know that Rachel, Rachel and I, there's a new experience being new parents of finding what works. Yeah. And continuing to do what works even after it stopped working. Okay.

Does that make sense to either of you? Like, you get into it, really, me like, okay, good. So this is what you like to eat. Uh-huh. Good. And then all of a sudden, you're like, and you're like, wait, I have fun. I fed this child noodles with butter on it for 12 days in a row. I hear you.

We got to change. Not working anymore. What do you mean you don't like noodles with butter? Right. Like my brain gets into like a bit of a survival mode and forgets to like adjust, forgets to adapt. Yeah. And so we've recently had to like, because it's a fun thing. Bear comes home from school.

He and IFA get a little popsicle and they sit on the front steps and eat their popsicles together. And it's the cutest thing ever. And we love it. And it turns them into nightmare demons. Okay. Because of the sugar? Yes. They go insane. And it's like, and every time we do it. Like, why did we do this? Every time, every time they're doing the craziness, I'm like, you know what? Maybe we're just going to have to stop having popsicles after school. And Rachel's like, you know, you say that every day. And we finally had to like make the shift. of like, okay, clearly, this is too much for your brain at this stage of the day or development or whatever it is.

Yeah. And so, you know, obviously they are not autonomous. They don't decide what they eat. Yeah. They get given things. So I don't know beyond that, like how, I don't know how that goes once kids start going out into the world. Because Lord knows I was going out into the world.

world as a young kid yeah i told you i think we've already talked about this podcast about my my soda addiction no so before anything else sugar was my thing and i would pursue it like a junkie yeah sugar's addictive i would oh yeah i would gamble for quarters at school just little like games with quarters where it's like you i flip my quarter and you flip your quarter and if you match mine you take mine and if you don't match my i take yours okay just take a pocket of quarters to that soda machine, and by the time I got to college, I was drinking 100 ounces of soda a day. Oh, sorry? 100.

$32 ounce cup at the cafeteria? Yeah. At least three of those a day. Oh my God. Now mind you, I was 6'4, 190 pounds. I mean, I was burning calories. Sure. Yeah.

Like it was, I needed that much sugar just to stay awake for the amount of calories I was burning. But I don't know, I don't know how you. I don't know how you, like in these storylines with her. It's like, what are you going to do? That's my, what are you going to do? I understand both perspectives, both parents. Absolutely. Yeah.

And Rebecca only comes at it from love. It's a place of love. And that's the important thing to put in it. Like not a place of judgment and like sort of body shaming or anything like that is like, I want my child to be the healthiest version of herself. And I want to sort of break that apart from diet culture. which has a preeminent emphasis on thinness as the sort of result of healthiness.

And it's not always, like, I think Madison being a part of the show and what we deal with later sort of exemplifies that perfectly. But just like, I want you to be healthy. And I know that, like, eating certain things all the time is not going to lead to the healthiest outcome. Sure, sure. Okay. And this, like, obsession with food.

She seems to be obsessed. Like you said, all of her memories of the cabin and why she likes it is the popcorn and the smores. And it's like, oh, we need to maybe separate that from the experience. But this is also what we get into in this episode. I don't know if we want to jump that far into the family therapy session about what gets discussed. But it's like there's a difference between, you know, like the nutritionist that we see has this one bite rule. Hey, you have one bite of whatever you want.

Yeah. You have a craving? Taste it. Great. Leave it alone. And that's fine for some people. sure but some people can't pick up and you know once you pop yeah once you pop you can't stop that goes for sugar that goes for alcohol like it's like saying to an alcoholic yeah just have a sip

right and then leave it alone right you know and anybody who drinks a lot would say what do you mean you have a beer and you go to bed right and it doesn't make any sense yeah they come in packs a six for a reason come on now you know what I do so this is then the discussion about about especially And why and why childhood obesity is such a delicate topic because we attach the things that we consume, whether it's food or whatever it is to change our physical being. And it gets attached to our emotional state or it can get imprinted, it can get encoded.

And we start to go to those things that they start out, survival mechanisms, then they turn into coping mechanisms, and then before you've realized it, it's just a part of your personality. Yeah. And you can't untangle them. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be right back with more. That was us. This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar The Ultimate Offroad Challenge. Learn more at landrover.ca. I remember one year we all went down south. I think we were in Atlanta and we found this beautiful home and big family. We had about 16 of us all in this house and it had four stories and we were able to split it amongst ourselves and the family got a chance to be together. Little cousins playing with each other all under the same roof, ping pong table, foosball.

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space a part of their story. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Let me do this little part because I think it's going to lead naturally into this therapy session, right? Because she's as like, why are we doing this? And she's like, you've been eating a lot of sweets since you've been here. And we just feel like, you know, you should try to move your body a little bit more. And I guess McKenzie's face just falls. False.

Like you see it instantaneously. Like, I thought you were on my side. And you're like everybody else. That we go to do this thing, right? And then she just says, I won't eat more sweets. I just don't want to play. And she leaves, right?

And not to assume what someone else is going through, but to be attached to a storyline that is based on your appearance. Yeah. It's like regardless of whether or not this is an imaginary character, you're still a person who's like having to be put in this position. Yeah. And that's rough.

Amen. Amen. Amen. The next thing that happens in that scene is Kev is left on the football field by himself as Jack runs after Kate and as Rebecca and Randall are just sitting there, reading their book, he just takes the football and chucks it at him, right? And Rebecca sort of lays in, like, bro, what's your problem? Yeah.

Like, quit being. And I got to give, like, these younger versions of Kevin's, both Parker and Logan. Like, when it's time for them to be douchey, they're really good at it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, my God, you guys, I see why we had such a tough relationship. I, like, in that moment, I mean, granted, my little guys are still pretty little. But I have an almost four-year-old and a two-year-old.

And sometimes, yeah, Gus just goes and, like, pushes his brother down or clocks him in the head with a toy. And I'm like, dude, why did you do that? Yeah. And at four, he doesn't know why he did it still. At 13, he may not either, because he still does crazy stuff. Because as I'm watching Rebecca say that, I was like, ooh, I saw Mandy there. I saw Mandy. She didn't know she was going to, this is how she was going to feel.

Yeah. Four years for now. There is, okay. Then we fast, we go to the present, and we go to this therapy session, right? And Mandy and I were recollecting, like, this was one of the longest scenes that we remember shooting. Yeah, it was like eight pages. I mean, a lot of people. A lot of people, like eight pages.

pages, what not, and they would... Or maybe longer. They would run it, it may have been longer. And they'd run it as a oneer, and we would just do three or four. This is Chris Koch, right? Yes. Yes. Love Koch.

And then we go into coverage, right? And I can remember watching this scene. It starts off in a very polite way. Go for you. In my estimation of the format, he, like, does his best to go around the room, and he kind of, he kind of gives a half-hearted apology that is, that is meant to be part of his amends process. Sure, I was like placating everybody.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And it was real like, yeah, sorry about that. Again, I'm sorry, and also I'm sorry. And then he turns to his therapist, like, that felt good, I felt good. And you're just like, we haven't scratched the surface. Not even close, yeah. It's funny too, because Beth and Randall

have a conversation earlier where, like, he admits to how upset he is with the situation, especially with his daughter in the back-seater car, what not. But he said, and Beth is too. But he tells Beth, like, look, when I was at my lowest point, this dude showed up. And it's our turn to show up for him. And she's like, all right. And I say, if ever it gets to a place where, like, I don't know what I have to say and say,

I'll just take a deep breath and I'll say, we're here for you, Keff, right? And so you see Randall. Immediately goes there. We're here for you, Keff? Immediately. Yeah. Don't have to wait too long. You don't have to wait long at all.

It's such a wonderful contrast between Chrissy and myself and Kate and Randall. But like, she's just like, oh, Kev, like, I'm so sorry that like I didn't see it coming. And Missy and I just wanted to be here for you, et cetera, et cetera. And Randall the whole like the whole time is like, yeah, I don't have anything to be sorry. Yeah, Kate is on the verge of tears. She's on the verge of tears and Randall's like, I just, can I leave? because I don't want to be here to begin with, right? So once he really starts to deal with things,

and he starts to talk about his childhood and how he always kind of felt like a fifth wheel, he said, Kate, you had dad, Randall, you had mom, and I always sort of felt left to my own devices, right? And then we chime in a little bit. He says something about, like, I'm an addict, right? Dad was an addict, and it's something that we don't really talk about that much. And Kate, I know how hard you struggle with food and I know you be working

real, real hard, but I think that you're an addict too, right? You said, we are a family of addict. Yeah, we are a family of us. And Kate has this moment of like, why are you doing this? And he starts, Kevin starts to respond. She's like, no, no, not you. This woman. Yeah, of course. Don't blame the brother. Why are you picking scabs and trying to make things worse than what they are? And it's an interesting sort of moment because it reminds me, I have this conversation with you, saw, all the time. Introspection is not comfortable and it's not like second nature for most of us.

You know what I'm saying? I feel like because we do this profession, we tend to do it a little bit more than the average Joe. But still, it's not comfortable. I've had people tell me straight up, why would I want to bring up the past? Leave that shit where it is and keep it moving. You know what I'm saying?

That's my background. You know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's most people. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because it's, it takes work to have to pick it up, look at it, examine it to make it truly dissipate. It's the great American tragedy. I mean, it's every play, it's every play about the American family that's ever been written. Sure.

It's like, and today's the day that the family deals. Yeah. With 30 years of things they haven't talked about. Yeah. Yeah. I thought you meant just like America. itself. I mean, in terms of admitting its own past and sort of coming to terms with it. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, that. 100%. Just that. That is not necessarily free that from informing the way that we live our lives.

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So they delve into it and then he starts talking about mom. And what does he say about you that Randall's just like, pause, bro. You know, she's sort of like, Rebecca chimes in and is like, you know, the therapist asks her why did she ever really have this conversation with her children about his addiction? About his addiction. And she's like, why would I spoil, like, why would I talk about the one thing that made my husband not perfect? Yeah, right. Why would I spoil their memories? They had 17 years with him. He's never going to be at Kate's wedding.

He's not going to ever meet Randall's children. And then she goes in on Rebecca for using two examples that don't involve. Right. My favorite part about the end of that thing, Mandy, is you say, and you really do my husband a disservice by calling him an addict because he was so much more than that. Favorite part is...

Thank you. Thank you. I watched that too, and I was like, I think I just added that. I think you did, but I was like... Because it was sort of like, and that's all I have... say about that. Yeah. It was like you were at a Senate hearing.

Yes. Thank you. Brilliant. Well, it's like, I think she was so, like, put on the defense. Sure. Yeah. I just remember filming that scene and feeling that, but coming in so uncomfortable, it's so loaded.

You could have cut the tension with a naive. Yeah, yeah. I think the way we approached filming that scene, too, was we did it. We did the whole thing in one long, take from whatever angle, whatever coverage they were getting. And it was like, we didn't want to do it too much. We didn't want to rehearse it too much or talk about it too much. So it's like it felt like this like precious thing in the sense that it was alive and we were letting it kind of live and bubble up at certain points. And yeah, I just, I remember feeling this like just innate

heaviness of what we were there for, not knowing ultimately like where it was going to go. but just how sad it was. I don't think it was lost on Rebecca. Like, yes, Jack had a drinking problem, and I'm not sure she ever wanted to admit that there might be a correlation between what Kevin was going through. But, man, when Randall lays into him, like, you're not an addict. If you're, like, addicted to anything, it's attention.

Yeah. I was like, whoo. He's like, what's going on, man? No more Ron Howard, no more Slice Stallone, and now Q. Breakdown. Right? You know, it was, it was uncomfortable to watch.

Yeah. And it's interesting because they have these moments. And the big Kevin Randall thing happens late, season five, four, something like that. The front yard? Yeah, the front yard. Where I had people just jumping forward to that, they were like, you remember, like, the Jack and Rebecca seen in season one? Like when they were arguing. Yeah, the fight.

I had people tell me, I was like, that was worse. They were like, because they were like, that was thought about. Yeah, it was premeditated. That was like, nobody was drunk. Nobody was like, you know, wasn't late at night. It was broad. Someone had to drive somewhere. So anyway, that happens in that therapy session, and it's just explodes all over the place.

And then Rebecca explodes. You know, she's sort of like pushed to the brink. And it's like, you know. Well, he pushes you. He says, just admit it, mom. you like Randall the best, right? Because you should like, what are you talking about? I love all my children the same.

Oh, you can't be honest, you can't just say it or whatnot. And then you said, it's not that I like him, he was just easier. Yeah. Right? Yeah. He didn't abandon me immediately after his father died, right? And the air in the room, the wind is just like,

even Randall, even Brown was like, damn. Yeah. It was, okay, we're going to sit in that for a little. Yeah, that's 20 years that have just been festering inside. Yeah. Trudes, right? Truths. Yes. That need to be... Aired. Exorcised. Yeah.

Especially when they're that deep for that long. Yeah. And that's the power, and honestly, as messy and maybe inappropriate, maybe inaccurate, the benefit of therapy and this situation that they're they're in is you need context to talk about this stuff, here's your context. Yeah. Therapy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Absolutely.

The idea of like, when was I going to talk to my kids about him being an alcohol? Right. At what point, what do you do, when do you do that? Sure. Like what do you, which is such an interesting correlation. They lost their father. Yeah. And what do you, two weeks after he dies?

No, by the way, let's not forget. He had a drinking. You know what I mean? Like there's never, quote, unquote, never a good time. Yeah, never can't be. And it's an interesting correlation with our show that gives people who watch it, as we have talked about with our friends, the context to talk about these things. Yeah.

Just by watching the show. Absolutely. Because there will come a day, there will come a day where I'll have to talk to Baranifa about my difficulty with drinking. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just so you know, this has been in my past or this has been, I've had problems with us. So maybe you should kind of look out for that. Yeah. But who knows when or how.

But you're saying like, but if they watch episode number one of, you know, this is us. Yeah, that's right. You're like, you know what? It's interesting because dad also went through a similar situation. You know what I'm saying? Let's go, let's go to a slightly lighter for it. Let's go to the new big three. And how was it for you guys, for you and Sue and John just sort of like getting a chance to kick it? It was a glorious day. Of course, it felt glorious day. The three of us, you know, obviously, obviously the three of us didn't hold similar resentments that the characters should hold. But it was a fun day to be like, scenes for us.

Scenes for the three of us. And we had a good time in that bar for that day, that afternoon. It looked awesome. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. But it's funny too because you and Beth, or Toby and Beth, I should say, are sort of talking about this, the no Pearson fly zone, right? And how, like, the Pearson's can talk to each other about what have you. And I don't know if you guys have, you have siblings.

I can say whatever I want to about my brother and sister. If somebody else has something to say about my brother and sister, I'd be like, uh-uh. And it took, in the beginning of my marriage, it was a thing where, like, my wife would say something. I'd be like, oh, you're real familiar. But I was like, oh, I share a bed with you. Yeah. I should be, it should be us, right? We're on the same team.

It took a minute. There's the thing of like, a fluff like, you start to get familiar and maybe Rachel says something and I start to like come in and like, oh, it's just you venting? Okay, you just vent. You just go. You go ahead. This is on you. But that's what I think what they're talking about a little bit to the no-fly zone because, you know,

you can't really mess with Kevin if Kate has anything to do with, what not. And then the real no-fly zone is, man, look at that. That water. Sorry. It's a big one. YouTube. Y'all just got to see. Get on YouTube.

Listen. We hydrate. I have a child to feed. It's a breastfeeding mom. You better get your water, girl. Look at us. Put in my scrawny little thermos. To shame.

There is, there's no fly zone. And you say, like, oh, especially if you bring up Jack, don't ever talk about Jack. Like, that's just like the Cardinal Rule number one. What did I write here? What did I write here? What did you write? That Jack is the saint will never know or live up to. Right.

That's how he's described. That's the pedestal that he's crazy. But then I love, they're all revealing their truths, right? And Miguel comes out with, I married my best friend's wife. And it was like, record scratch. Sue had like, she was in, I think it was in the middle of throwing a dart and her head just went, and Sally, I can't remember what you did. But you're like, are we going there?

It's being talked about. I feel like it was like collectively America was like, oh, finally. Thank you. They got a chance to be. the audience. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Those two for that moment with Miguel. Yes. And he's like, you know, because they were talking about being an outsider

and not in the inner circle. Yes. Right. Like that's just reserved for the inner circle. I'm the ultimate outsider. Right. I've been outside of this thing the whole time. And that's okay. You know what I mean? Like the level of peace that Miguel has with who he is and how he's been. He's the Jedi.

He's really amazing. And the fact that he's like they lived through something we will never understand. It's the four of them. Bam. And we will always be on the outside because of that. Yeah. Because he also says it at one point in the way that, like, I think maybe you saw it too.

You see a little bit John Horace. He goes, now you're entering my no-flats. And it was like just that kind of like, that slightly over-the-dramatic character that he likes to play. Because he's talking about my best friend. You know what I mean? It's so good. makes me miss John. I love that guy.

It's really good, but like I did love that moment for the audience and you guys' reactions to him dropping that bomb. He was like, everything went quiet for a second. Yep. Because my best friend from St. Louis is like, Carol, I don't think I can like Miguel. I was like, I'm telling you, man, he's a really good dude. He got with his best friend's wife, man.

Like, how are you going to do that? And I was like, yeah, but there's a hole. He's like, no, man. I think by the end. By the end, he came around, but it took a minute. Because America, at that time that they said that, everybody, you got that sense. They were like, can we talk about this?

Yeah, yeah. So no one's talking about this. Maybe this happened. Maybe we're going to see a flashback of them talking about this. Yeah. We'll be right back with more. That was us. the day you finally ask for that big promotion.

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Kev is sitting out on a bench overlooking the lake, just trying to, you know, collect his thoughts. His sister comes and sits next to him, and there's an apology. you know, nobody wants to hurt anybody. And those two never, there's never real, like, super friction between Kev and Kate. No.

Honestly, there's not. The friction comes with your boy. Yep. The bros. With the bros. And I wind up sitting down and joining them too. And I was telling them, like, you know what have been really cool? Is if somebody had just sort of videotaped our entire childhood.

And then that way, if one of us had a dispute about what I had, actually went down and now, we could just go back to the videotape and we could see it for ourselves, right? Objectively. Objectively. Because right now, we only have our perspective of how the childhood went down because in a therapy session said, I was there for your childhood, bro. It didn't seem that bad to me, right?

And he says, but because of that, because I see your childhood differently, doesn't discount the way that you experienced it. And he winds and telling him, like, look, man, I wanted to be here for you. today. Because you were there for me at my lowest point. And today I did a bad job. I was a bad brother and I'm sorry. And I really appreciated him saying it. Same. I wrote that down. I was like, it seems insurmountable sometimes. But that is how you apologize. Like that is how you take accountability. I was like, I love that that is being modeled to all of us because it was a revelation. I'm sure I felt that way when I saw it initially, but whatever is going on in my life right now or wherever, I was just like, wow, that is how you do that.

You know what it is? I feel like, I think we're all capable of it. I feel like ego sort of like gets in the way. And again, I've had this thought in my head. I said this on the podcast. They should apologize first. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. It's ego and resentment. Yeah. And it gets in the way of amending anything. Yes. And the only thing that we can control, like we were talking about, is our perspective. Right.

You keep your side of the street clean. Amen. And you don't worry about the other side of the street. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? I mean, we all have siblings, and it's just like, it made me think about that.

Like, we share this, like, really, like, indelible thing, this, just this, this experience that no one else understands, but those who lived it. And that's the, that's the really remarkable thing about having a sibling. Yeah. And to have had wildly different experiences. Yeah.

And maybe it's not something that is even, you know, remarked on until you get older. That's right. Perspective. Like, you can't really understand what it is that you've gone through until you've got like 60,000 square foot view, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Our therapist told us several times, she's like, every child enters a completely different

family. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's true. Like your first child enters with just these two parents. And then two, three, however many, it's a complete, as similar as it appears, it is a completely unique and different situation, which is why this situation is so specifically interesting, right?

Because you have a set of twins and this third baby who all arrive at the same time. So you would just assume that their perspectives, that they're all witnessing the same things, They're all benefiting from the same things. They're all being injured in the same way. And it's just not the case. Yeah. Couldn't be more different. I want to stick with the present for a second because that storyline with Kate and Tocby,

you wound up admitting to the new Big Three that you saw that your wife had been eating junk food and sort of hiding it from you. Because you're just talking about being on the outside and what you can't. Have you got, what is it that you say? Like, have you guys ever had something? where you're supposed to know about it or not supposed to know about it but you wind up saying

something about it anyway when we leave the therapy thing it's an interesting thing because you're about to broach the subject with her and she asks if she can say something first and she says since i lost the baby i've been eating junk food uh because it makes me feel good but keeping things from you makes me feel really bad and i don't want to keep anything from you anymore and it's Sort of that connective thing to dad taking you for ice cream. You guys, after preschool, I can remember this. Like at age four, I would go to Dunkin' Donuts with my dad. He'd get a dozen donuts.

Sterling Brown ate a dozen donuts. And that fills me with joy. So then you get older and you start eating a dozen donuts, thinking that you're going to get that same sort of feeling. You're like, oh, man, it isn't, I shouldn't, but I'm still doing it. And then at a certain point, you're like, you have to make a, decision. Like, oh, this doesn't feel good anymore. Right. So maybe I should make a different choice.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's so interesting. It's what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode of, like, the joy is, is the time with your father. Yeah. Not what you guys. But it gets hardwired to the thing. The association. That you're associating. Right. Because I had the same every day, every day on the way to school. Yeah. Stop at the coffee shop, two donuts and chocolate milk. Okay. You know. Yeah. While my dad had a coffee, and I played some video game. And it was like, and, and yeah, I mistook, you know,

sometimes you mistake the serotonin for the sugar rush. Yeah, yeah, the ritual. Yeah, well said, well said. I love that this episode ends too with, you know, because it's sort of piggybacks on young cabin feeling like an outsider, right? He has always felt like the fifth wheel. It's something he admits in therapy. He says in therapy, okay, mom, name something that's just us.

Not the whole family, not the three of us plus you, but like just you and me. And she's flustered, being put on the spot. It's like, wracking her brain trying to figure out a memory. Yeah. And she can't. Right. So the episode ends with her going to Kevin's room and she's waiting in there for him. and you know she admits she's like I never had to worry we never had to worry about you

when we drop you off at kindergarten yeah like your sister was clinging to me was crying like Randall I forget what Randall was doing but something similar yeah sure and and you just sort of like purposefully like just strided into school didn't look back and your father and I we're like, look at our brave boy, like, just doesn't need us, basically. And that just kind of typified exactly who he was throughout his whole life. Like, we never had to worry about you. You seemingly had it all together. Yeah.

And so I apologize if, you know, I didn't sort of see what lied underneath. Maybe we should have. Yeah. There's, so in the past, there's this thing where Randall loses his glasses. And he had just got them. Becca, blames. Rebecca, is like, did you, Kevin, Did you take Randall's glasses?

Because if you did, that's really dumb. He needs his glasses, you know that. He's like, I didn't take him. You're like, okay. You say okay, but like you still kind of feel like maybe he won't have taken him. Yeah. Later on that night, I don't know if there's a storm going on outside. Yeah, there's a storm going on outside.

And Kate and Randall are both not in the room. Kate and Randall are out of the room. He wakes up alone. He wakes up and he sees Randall's glasses like underneath the bed. He goes to grab the glasses, says brother and sister aren't there, goes into the parents' room and sees. that his brother and sister are in the bed with his parents. And he's like, I guess, I guess this is just my life, you know what I'm saying?

So my man grabs a blanket, he makes a pallet for himself on the floor, puts the pillow down, etc. And as that's happening in the present, he's saying like, listen, man, I know we had to have something together. I may not be able to think of it right now, but I'd like to think that we did. And he's like, yeah, you know, maybe, maybe we did. I like to think so too. Oh. And you see Rebecca wake up and sees her baby boy on the floor. And she's like, well, I ain't going to lay on the floor by himself.

And she goes and lays next to him, put my arm around him, and they just go to sleep. And that's when Brown cries. That's when I cry too. Because she goes, I know we had moments. I feel it in my bones. And Justin's like, I think we did. I hope we did. And that's how he ends it.

Like, I think we did. Maybe we did. I hope we did. And I'm just like, as a parent, I'm crushed, like, oh, God, I don't want that to ever happen. Oh, man. But then just, like, seeing her, like, lay on the floor, I'm like, why can't you remember that? Why can't you tell them that? Remember during the storm at the cabin?

Because you can't pull. Like, that's what makes it even better. Of course, of course. Yes. Because it's like, you don't remember every single moment. No, these tiny little moments. I mean, it's like this conversation we had earlier today. In an episode with Isaac and Elizabeth, it's like those little tiny fragments of our lives that, like, are written into the show that we don't remember necessarily.

But it's like when you start to, like, dig in, you find those little, those little tiny hidden gems of what make up a life, what comprise a life. And the process that he's going through, the thing that gets in the way of us appreciating those things, or the thing that gets in the way of me appreciating those things and remembering those things is identifying too closely with my resentment and my anger for the things I didn't get, for the way I wasn't treated, or the way, you know, and the more I lean towards, you know, a clear mind,

a clear heart focus on gratitude and things like that, all of these things flood back. It's like, oh, right, oh, right. All of this story I've been telling myself about it. I've been wrong or I've been mistreated is not all that true. Right. The perspective that I thought was mine has actually been distorted by my lack of gratitude. Wow.

and you can see Kevin setting out on that on that path yeah and that was when when he said I hope there I hope we did like he he knows that you're that you did yeah he just can't remember yeah I was about to say like in this moment I just I was sitting here I was like what about when she took you to get that dang go baseball car boy like don't you remember yeah you'll see in future episodes it's like it's like plaque on the brain it's all he just can't Can't get past all the hurt. Yeah, the ego. It was a beautiful episode.

It really was. I remember shooting it. I remember shooting that therapy scene, how heavy it was, but like how also the show always gave us like, we all got to like get such good stuff. Like I, maybe like, let me speak for myself. But like I was always just so, you know, It was the perfect, what was that I'm trying to say, guys?

It was the name of the show, I feel, was reflective in how everyone got to be reflected in the show. Yeah. Like, you could have taken all the numbers on the call sheet and added them together and divided them by seven. And that's what it felt like. Like, it felt like we were doing this thing together and everybody had. had the highest level of support because we just wanted to make the best show possible. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. Like, when I'm watching, like, the new big three, I'm like, they're killing it. And we're in this therapy thing. It's like, we all get to kill it. Like, everybody gets to eat. And I was like, it was always a good day at work. Always a good day at work, man. Yeah.

Which makes it seem not real. Yeah. Did that really happen? That couldn't have happened. And a very silly side note, this was the earliest call time for me. What was it? In prosthetic makeup, 230. Oh, all right, all right.

Yeah. A new record. A new record. Because it was like this time of year. It was like winter time, so we had shorter dates. Yes. Did you have to go up there to get your makeup? Yeah, I had to go to Malibu where we shot this.

I remember my- Did you put you up at Casamigos the night before? No, no, no. So my in-law at the time lived in Malibu. Yes. My husband's from there. And so we stayed at their house. Okay. And then I drove to work because I was like, this is going to be an hour and half to get to work otherwise.

Yeah, 2.30 in the morning to put the prosthetics on. So John must have had a similar. Well, no, no, no, because it was just me in that therapy seat. It was just you in a therapy seat. I remember you telling me this call time. And I remember saying to Sterling Brown said Sterling Brown, you will never complain about a call time. Oh, gosh, no. I wasn't complaining either.

I just remember thinking I was like. I have no right. Oh. I was like, this is early. Is this how it's always going to be? Because we were still like early-ish days where I was like, wow. 2.30 is.

Yikes. We're going to go to the fan segment. We're going to the fan segment. That was a great talk. Everybody will be right back with more. That was us. Gang. Yes.

That's me. We're back. Can I just say? we love our fans. We do. We love hearing from you. We love our fans. We love hearing from them.

And all the voicemails and messages that we've received, including more burning fan questions. Our first Q&A with the fans went so well that we found some more. Round two. And we're here to answer them all. Let's do it.

Let's do this thing. I'll do the first one. Okay. So this is from Jill. My question, oh, this is for me. Jill, my question is for Mr. Brown. Randall's glasses were such an interesting part of his character. Did they help you get into character when you put them on?

That's interesting. Jill, I from 14, was I in high school? Yeah, 14 to 30. I wore glasses. Really? Yeah, yeah. You know, not terrible eyesight, but having a tough time with the chalkboard and all that type of stuff. Then at age 30, I found LASIC.

and if you're candidate for LASIC or whatnot it's a game changer because now at age 48 I still don't need glasses I kind of need them every once in a while at night with glare coming off of like stuff but it was for the past 18 years first you have 16 years of like doing this all the time

and like if you go play pool or whatnot you have to do this play basketball and put stuff in your eyes and then all of a sudden they're gone so putting the glasses on actually did help me get back the character, because you just kind of felt a little bit nerderier. Like Clark Kent. Like Clark Kent. I love that.

There you go. What's next? Mary asks for Mandy, I'm curious if becoming a mom has had you reflect on your character playing an amazing mom figure. If you were to play Rebecca now after being a mom in real life, is there anything you would have done differently? Anything I would have done differently. It's so hard to qualify what exactly that would be. Yeah. I just, I feel like I have more tools in the toolbox now.

Like, I have more real-life experience and baggage that I would be able to, like, bring to the character. Yeah. More understanding of her. So I'm sure that would shape and change things to a certain degree, but I don't know exactly how. Okay. There was one scene where they, where our new baby had a dirty diaper and it was stinky and they made me carry the baby out in front of me. Like, oh, God, I'm like, that was a real TV move. Yeah.

It was a real like, oh, look at this dad who can't handle a stinky diaper. That's not how it goes. But at the time, I was like, yeah, I guess this is what happens. Yeah. And then you just realize, like, how disturbingly comfortable you become with poop. Yeah. The anecdote, the first time I got dused on by my child, we were in the back seat of my wife's car. She had gone to go grocery shopping.

I was like, he was asleep. He woke up, right? And it started streaming. out of the diaper and then you just kind of have this and I was like I had no we'd used up all the stuff so I just had to hold him and then I was like okay it has begun fatherhood is real this is real nothing else you can do who cares about poop anyway exactly who cares about poop there's our first merch that was us who cares about poop who care that that was good just a brown shirt just like a duky brown shirt um uh Camilla

Ella asks, best song, music. Personally, I love to build a home and can't listen to it without at least a tier. We were just talking about this. Yeah. Interesting. We were just talking about this song. I think it's featured in several episodes. It is.

But there's a big episode coming up. Yeah, episode 213. Yeah, it features it. And we were just talking about. Right before the Super Bowl. Oh, right before the Super Bowl. Yeah, it's like, oh, wow, things are starting to catch on fire. Yeah. Sometimes that song pops into my head.

and even singing it to myself makes me emotional. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to agree with you on that one. Here's a question from Myra. Given that the show follows various timelines and generations, how did filming work? Did you film the bulk of scenes with certain characters for a period of time and then later with others?

Myra, that's interesting, because when you watch a show, I think everybody is sort of deluded in the idea that you shoot sequentially and that it sort of happens. No, you shoot out a location. You try to knock out a location so you can knock out every scene that takes place in Jack and Rebecca's house or every scene that happens in Randall and Beth's house. And then you try to move on to the next location. So whether it's in the past or the present, it's usually the location that mandates the shooting schedule.

That's true. Yep. So from This Is Us, Brazil, they want to know, do you think your character would have a different story if COVID were not in the world? I don't understand the question. They're saying, do you think like the storylines would have been different if we didn't have to address COVID in the show? And I think that the overall arc of the story was already sort of cemented. And we tried to figure out as gracefully as possible. How to incorporate.

How to incorporate COVID into the day. But the storylines were going to be what they were. As far as I can remember from conversations at the time, because I know some people didn't want to see it. Some people didn't want to see COVID on their TV because they were living it in their lives. Yeah. The show was such a clear reflection of the audience that it would have been more disruptive to just ignore it. Right. I agree.

And people, there were a lot of people who did want to see that reflected back to them. Yeah. Yeah, people just sort of living their lives in the midst of living through a pandemic, as we all were tasked with doing. I agree. This is a good one. You see this one by John? No. I know that many of you...

Ah, John. I know that many of you directed. episodes. How do you manage acting and directing at the same time? And how do you direct yourself? That's for you two, right there. I didn't have to direct myself. Oh, you didn't? No. Oh, you weren't in the episode? No, no. It was all, it was all, Toby and Kate. That's right. You directed yourself? Yes. Okay. Talk to us. Did I? You may not have. I do remember. Well, I do remember. Okay. Sounds tough. Yeah. Where are you going with this, Chris? He was like, this is dark. I called myself into my trailer.

Fired you. And I was like, what? I took a long look in the mirror. And I said, what are you doing? You do not embarrass us. Now I am going to go outside and then I'm going to come back in. When I do, I want you to have these lines memorized. Travis Bickle-Sullivan is over here trying to direct themselves.

Luckily, I don't think I had, I think I had one. scene in my episode. So it wasn't a big, they kind of made sure that we didn't have to Yeah, and he do like real heavy lifting. You weren't directing like a Rebecca episode. Exactly, exactly. Okay, well, let's do one more.

There's do somebody, this looks interesting, Quentin's question, because he has like, Tarantino. He has exclamation points. Who wants to read it? Read it. Here's my question. Considering that Chris turned in a hilarious and unrecognizable performance as

taser face in Guardians of the Galaxy volume two, and Sterling gave his powerful and emotional one as Prince Njobo, Njobu, and Black Panther. When will the lovely Amanda Lee Moore grace the Marvel Cinematic Universe with her presence? Would Mandy be interested in a role in that universe? Sure. Yes. And this is where we start our campaign. Let's begin now.

Right here on this podcast. Are you an Avenger woman? Are you an X-Men woman? Like, what is your jam? Nothing. Are you a fantastic form? Engage. We are not nerdy enough to know.

I wish I was. I wish I was too. I knew more of the Marvel Universe. You know who you are. And then I would name that character and we'd start that campaign. But I bet our listeners know exactly who you should be. I know who she should be. If they get a chance to redo or whatnot, I think Mandy could kill some Gene Gray.

Absolutely. You know what Jean Grey is? She's an ex-man. She's an ex-man. An ex-woman. Yeah. Aren't they doing another one? No, they're doing fantastic floor.

I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are. They'll redo all of them eventually. And when they are, let them know. Mandy Moore. The hashtag is Marvel Mandy. Hashtag Marvel Mandy. So get on the interwebs, the WWs.

Go to Instagram.com. Yes. And get on there and start. Thank you for campaigning for me. Marley. Because it's about time. Look at you. This is about time.

Look at you. This is hot. Yeah. Listen, we're going to do one more question. This is a question from Annie. How on God's green earth did Randall and Beth not have a spare room in that giant? How? My husband and I used to joke about it all the time while we were watching,

and I chuckle every time I see William and Annie's room. I hope the three of you can unlock the great mystery. Now, listen, apparently you don't understand the layout of brownstones. Well, it wasn't a brownstone in the beginning. We moved to Philadelphia and season, at the end of season two, beginning of season three. That's when you got the Brownstone. But we had a big old house in New Jersey. I was picturing Brownstone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is a very good question because we had to put Kevin in the basement. Like, William was sleeping in one of the girls' room. Like, I feel like that house

feels like a five to six bedroom joint. At least a four bedroom. And you're absolutely right. And it's only a three. Yeah. You know what, listeners? You got us. You caught us. Fine. You're happy. We'll tell, we'll tell Dan Fogelman. Let's go back and read do the show everyone gets their own room let's sign off guys thank you so much for watching this episode please don't forget to subscribe rate tell a friend like we are here for you and we're enjoying being with each other but we really do enjoy being with you and hearing from you so if you have any questions comments thoughts things that you want to share you can hit us up on email at that was us pod at gmail dot com or call us at 412 501

3028. That's our emotional support hotline. I love hearing from you guys. I love you. This is the best time ever. We love you too. We'll see you on the next. That was us. This is one of our favorite segments of the show. The Retread, brought to you by Peloton, Find Your Push, Find Your Power with Peloton. What we talk about on this episode. Oh my gosh. This was the therapy episode. Poop ain't no thing. Poop ain't nothing. It is just a real quick one that we talked about.

Yeah. You're not a real parent until you get dused on as far as I'm concerned. That's right. I also brought up the fact that this was the earliest call time. Not a big deal, but for me, when I watch this episode, I'm... You do keep saying it. I want to be pat on the back for this. This was 38.

I did it. And not only was it super early, you killed it in this episode. She murdered it in this episode. Well, we brought up the fact that, like, every day we went to work was just like a celebration. It was a gift. Like, we were all given the opportunity to rise to the occasion. We got to, like, do these incredible scenes with each other. It just, like, it was never, ever lost on me.

There was never, like, an autopilot moment. Right. The entire time we were doing the show. It's the same way I feel about doing every episode of this podcast. There you know. It was the coining of Cotoby. Quining of Cottoby. And it was also just sort of like seeing the new big three.

It was nice seeing the three of you guys together. Yes. The others. The others. What is this lost? No man. Find your point. Push.

Find your power. With Palatine. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da da da da da da da-da-dum, da-da-dum, that was us.