That Was Us - Uncle Nicky Meets The Twins | "One Small Step" (511)

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

This week on That Was Us, we’re breaking down This Is Us Season 5, Episode 11: “One Small Step.” Centered on Uncle Nicky’s journey to meet Kevin and Madison’s twins, the episode explores how the smallest steps can lead to the biggest changes—and how the stories we tell ourselves can shape an entire lifetime. In this episode, the hosts chat about: * Media saturation, smartphones, and the idea of going back to a simpler “brick” device * The importance of setting intentional boundaries with technology—for yourself and your kids * How limiting choices can actually lead to more clarity and happiness * Challenging your own “core belief” stories and the narratives that hold you back * The difference between routine and rut—and how to break out of it * The loss of shared cultural moments and what brings people together today They also break down the episode, including: * Nicky’s emotional journey from isolation to connection * His first flight since Vietnam and what it represents * Cassidy helping Nicky prepare for the trip—and confront his fears * Nicky’s arrival in California and his misunderstanding about the twins’ baptism * Flashbacks to his relationship with Sally and the life he almost chose * The moon landing as a symbol of hope, possibility, and connection * His attempt to reconnect with Jack after the war and why he ultimately walks away * Kevin and Madison welcoming Nicky into their home * Nicky’s powerful monologue to the twins and the meaning behind “you two are my moon” * The emotional final moment with Kevin discovering Nicky in the nursery And a friendly reminder, you can catch new episodes of That Was Us every Monday, a day early, exclusively on Hulu. Available on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts on Tuesdays like usual! That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. ------------------------- Support Our Sponsors: -This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit Betterhelp.com/twu today to get 10% off your first month. -With Shipt, it’s never just a delivery order – it’s shopped same day – in the same way you would. Use code "podcast" to get a year of Shipt for only $49 – HALF OFF the regular $99 price – at https://Shipt.com/offer. Terms apply ------------------------- 🍋 About the Show: The stars of This Is Us, Mandy Moore, Sterling K. Brown, and Chris Sullivan, dive back into the world of the Pearsons, reliving each episode and all the life lessons that came with it. Together, they dig in and dig deep, have the tough conversations, bring in very special and familiar guests, share never-before-heard behind-the-scenes moments, and feature listeners in highly anticipated fan segments. Join your favorite family back in the living room to examine our past, cherish our present, and look to the future with new episodes of That Was Us every Tuesday. ------------------------- Executive Producers: Natalie Holysz and Rob Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Production Coordinator: Andrew Rowley Video Editor: Todd Hughlett Mix & Master: Jason Richards About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a headgum podcast. On today's episode of That Was Us, we are diving into season 5, episode 11, one small step. In the present day, Uncle Nikki makes the journey to California to meet Kevin and Madison's twins. And through flashbacks, we see young Nikki's romance with Sally and the choices that shaped his life. Life. Life. Life is life. Not small choices.

The choices that shaped as life. I like that. kind of app, too. It's a very interesting thing. First of all, Hello. Hello. Welcome. Welcome. How are you guys doing? Doing good. I'm better now for seeing both of your faces. I love you guys. Just like immediately like my day is brighter. Yep. I feel the same. Seeing all of you actually. Our whole crew here. I love to acknowledge everybody off camera because like, what is what is the etiquette? Some people do, some people don't or whatnot.

And like, I like to, like, I don't want to pretend that we're here by ourselves. Yeah, right. We're just the three of us alone in a room. Trying to set up these cameras. Yeah. Running sound. Like, we know how to do anything. Sally is the only person that could probably set everything up.

No, correct. Absolutely not. And Mandy and I would be like, can we help? Yeah. We will. How can we assist you? Can I order food? Acknowledge people.

What can I do? But we will not go as far as giving anybody else a microphone, like some of these other podcasts. You know what? Does an armchair give Rob a mic? Once in a while. They let him speak. I think Rob takes... You see, we have a mic.

Rob takes a mic over there. Rob takes a mic over there. Rob takes a mic. Turn it off. Oh, dang. Yeah. It's been, it's been a fun time for me. Like, this will air, like, out of time, but I'm going to give people stuff.

Yeah, catch us up. We're on, we're like halfway through season two of Paradise. Oh, really? Erring. Airing. Yeah. Folks are very excited. Like, even Sam was just saying she'd watch this last episode four, and she's like, oh, M.G, Y,

G, Ongi. And it is kind of crazy. So when you guys get there. I've only watched the first. You've watched the first. You came to the premiere. It's spectacular. I came to the premiere.

Donka Shane. It's, the show is just like in typical Dan fashion. It's just like when you are expecting one thing and they give you something else that you're like, what? I didn't even know that this is what I wanted, but I love it. It's incredible. And you're still sure what episode, you've got 10. episodes of the land that you guys are doing.

What episode are you shooting right now? We're on Block 7-8 right now. Okay. With Mr. Chris Koch. Yeah. Who I know is coming to see you. I love that. That's right.

We got Cox coming in to. I guess we should have him back on here too because he was one of our highest rated episodes of the podcast. Oh, my God, I can't wait to tell him that. Yeah. I emailed him immediately and his mom is a huge fan of the show. Oh. We should have him back. The loveliest human.

He truly is. He is such a fast director. Yeah. He, yeah, I just like, I love being around. Like, he's such a fun hang, like such an easy chat. Yeah. I love working on. Incredible photographer, too.

Incredible photographer. We bought a large format print of his for our guest house. Did you really? Of what? What was it? It is a kind of a hyper close-up of this tree. Oh, a black and white. It's like a giant black and white, like four by two print.

Did he ever send you guys any pictures from set that he took? I believe so. Yeah, like I think I remember he sent a picture of Milo and I with like the kids like on the bed during one of the last episodes and like sent it like just as the show was finishing airing in real time. He good like that. He's like, yeah, very thoughtful. So what you've been up to, big though? I've been going back and forth to Vancouver working on this pilot for the rookie north. Yes, sir.

And I've got one more day of shooting for that. And it's gone well. Lovely group of people. Lots of police training. Is it cold in in Vancouver right now? Vancouver's not too bad. It's chilly, but it's not, it's not like, it's not Toronto. Is it sunny or rainy right now?

Both, kind of half and half, shocking the local crew. You've done a lot of Canada work this year, haven't you? Yeah, you know, I'm trying to find my way out of here. I don't blame you. Can I follow your lead? Jeez. Just planning roots. Yeah, smart.

Six to eight seasons of Vancouver? Well, all right, I guess I'll pack my bag. Yeah, I'll be an honorary Canadian. Vancouver is easier than Toronto. Because you're not traversing the whole of both countries. It's like a two-hour flight. It's not a big deal. It's not bad at all.

You guys want to start with initial impressions of the episode? You want to dive right into it? I just love any episode that focuses on Uncle Nikki. Me too. You just took the words out of my mouth. I could watch Griffin do anything. Do anything. He's great.

Do anything. His choices are always so specific. and delicious. And unexpected. And unexpected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We kind of jump back in with him. He seems we meet a motivated Nikki in the beginning of this episode where he's trying to do a bunch of things he's never done before.

Well, because the episode ended with him at the door last time, right? Kevin opens the door and there's Nikki with his mask on and he's traveled from rural Pennsylvania to come meet the twins. So that's where the episode sort of opens, right? Kevin's opening the door. He's there. he, you know, he's coming for the baptism. I was like, oh, well, that's a, that's a detail I totally forgot about, that they're baptizing the twins. And Kevin's like, I guess you missed the fact that it was a Zoom link.

And he's like, what? Like Uncle Nicky doesn't understand. He assures them, he takes off his mask. He's like, I don't have COVID. I've tested, like, twice. I've had, you know, my shots. We're assuring our audience in the world that, like, you've gone through all the protocols. All the protocol.

Yeah. Because we see him. We see him getting his shots even, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he, and he basically what, before the montage, he says, you know, Kevin's so touched that he flew across the country for this baptism. And Uncle Nicky sort of assures him, it was nothing. It was nothing.

It was not a big deal. And then we sort of flash back to, it was actually a big deal. Yeah, it was. In order for someone who has not flown on an airplane since 1971, since he evacuated Vietnam. Yeah. this again all the protocol he sort of had to go through COVID-wise in order to be able to get on an airplane asking Cassidy to help him go into Amazon.com

as he calls it to buy, we're not quite sure, but then we end up seeing he's like, he's creating these little miniatures and he's painting them and we see that he's making something for the twins to bring them. Yep. Having a child named after him, him has shifted him in a way. He's very touched.

Cassidy's helping him wrap these gifts. He's like, he's made these sort of, I guess, what, like snow globes or something? We don't quite know until he gets to the airport and has to like, you know. So Cassidy wraps the package. He's been vaccinated. She's driving him to the airport. He's anxious about flying. He's never done it before.

We see him like getting ready to go through TSA. and they are like, what's in this package? What's in this gift? And he's like, like, hand-carrying on this gift. And he's like, no, no, no, don't, don't, don't, don't unwrap it. And she's like opening it. You see that it's a snow globe. She's like, you can't take this on an airplane.

Because there's fluid in it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. He doesn't know any of this, obviously. Yeah, they're definitely not three-point-four ounces or less of water. So she's like, you can't take this on. And he starts having, like, a panic attack. He's like, I'll take the liquid out. and he goes to like, unscrew it, and of course, the glass breaks.

Shatters everywhere, and he's, all of his hard work is for nothing. You feel, I felt it. His choice, again, too, he doesn't scream or go, he sort of just, like, does this, I don't know, I can't even really explain it. Yeah, it's, like, insular and, like, yeah. Quick question. Have you guys ever had a situation of getting on the plane and being okayed at one airport for whatever it is? and then you have a connection and then like not being okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Frustrating. What's your specific example? I don't know. I think it has to do with like Brown has a regimen to try to maintain. Look, not everybody's as beautiful as Amanda Lee Moore. Sir. So some of us have to do.

Sir, I have all the lotions and potions too. Listen. Listen, I got more lotions, more potions. What I'm trying to say. I carry this stuff and I try to put it in like the right size containers and anything. And some of the things are expensive. And sometimes like I have. have to like get rid of them.

Like, oh, the deep ujai that Brown has to take is intense, man. You just won't go and check it. Well, sometimes, like, I thought it was small enough, and then sometimes you don't have time to go, because you thought you're gonna be able to carry it on. And then you can't. If I can go and check it, I will go and check it. I don't remember what the 3.4 ounce thing was.

Like, why that specific? It must have been, it was like the shoe bomber, why we had to take our shoes off, which we don't have to do anymore. I was like, I wonder what precipitated. You still do. If you're not in a, if you're not TSA-free. I thought that was, they did away with that now. Is that so?

I believe they have. That's what Natalie says. Yeah, I believe that's like, that's off the table now. That's really why I got TSA. Okay. Pre-check thing. I don't like taking my shoes. I don't like taking my shoes off either.

But now no one has to take off their shoes. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Anyway, I've, yes, I've had that where you're like, you have to throw something away. It's okay by one person, another person, consider something a liquid. Yeah. Consider something. I have had moments of leaving a bottle, a water bottle in my backpack or something.

Yeah. And I just guzzle that shit. Yeah. Or dump it out. I take it to the head. Yeah. I'm hydrating before I get up. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, poor Uncle Nicky. Yes. He gets on this airplane, you know, and then it kind of like flashes to him being like, yeah, it's not a big deal. And you're like, oh, well, now we're. It was a huge deal.

Yeah. that he says something to him about being proud of him for getting out of his routine, for leaving his trailer, et cetera. And I'm curious then, when does routine become a rut? Is there some sort of, because like routine is very comforting for me as well. I think for all of us. But we're talking about a man who hasn't left this trailer in 50 years or what have you. And so I think it had a really profound statement. I think about, I've heard this statistic. I don't know if it's 100% accurate.

but that the majority of us wind up living within like a 10-mile radius of where we were originally born. And I think that familiarity is something that is very comforting for most people. And I just wanted to speak to this idea that, like, I feel like I am fundamentally the same person that Arlene and Sterling Brown raised and graduated at 18. But you can't help but shift perspectives or have your perspective grow in terms of at 18, I thought, this is how you live. And then at 49, this is one way of living. And now I see all these other different ways of living. And there's this sort of, I think it happens through media consumption. I think it happens through books.

But I think it really profoundly happens through travel. Oh, I agree. And I just want, this is sort of a PSA to anybody. who has been afraid. Like, I have a dear friend who didn't take his first plane flight until his 30s and it was for a job,

what have you. And the excitement that he had of, like, going somewhere else. Like, he was freaked out. He was like, how's this big metal thing like hanging in the air or whatnot? And it is safer than driving a car. You know what I'm saying?

Statistically speaking, et cetera. But, man, what a powerful experience it is. Like, can you guys, just in terms of travel, or anything. Yeah. Talk to. I mean, I think it's, I think it's, it's again, it goes against our genetics to travel.

Sure. You know what I mean? We're tribal by nature. Right. And, like, that's an interesting, the, the stat you gave about people living within 10 miles of their, you know, like, we're, wherever only supposed to know, like, 75 people or something like that. Like, that's what, that's what our human animal can withstand.

And now it's only recently, I mean, in the last few decades, where we're, we're, we're were just exposed to so many more people, so many more cultures, so many more ways of living, so many ways of traveling. And to travel is a luxury, right? To get out and see the world and then to do all these things. But I also kind of am acknowledging now, like, I spent a lot of my life traveling and seeing different places and meeting a lot of people. And now as I get older, I'm like, no more new people.

Are you really? Like, I know. No more new people. You've reached the capacity, your maximum amount of allowed humans. We come in new jobs with new people all the time, right? New cast members. And like, I feel very lucky to have taken several friends from This Is Us. But it's usually just like maybe one person who you like form a bond with.

You're like, hey, after this wraps, let's have lunch or whatever the thing is. And now where it's like with the kids and the schools and the parents and stuff, I'm like, no, no dad's night out. I know new people. No new dad's night out. I know. And no, go with dads at two place. I'm okay.

You know, I can feel my primitive, like, me stay home. Like, me like home. I feel that. But then when I go, I go do it. And you're happy for it. Yeah, you're happier for it most of the time. So, yeah, so the idea of, of generationally speaking, like somebody from Nicky's, you know, generation who, I get, I mean, I get it. Like, the older people in my life are like, what's happening at the airport now?

Yeah. Scans and shoes and lines and I don't just go get on the plane. Right. This is, I don't want, never mind. I'll just stay here. It's like, I get it. It's become more of a chore. And I think it is a testimony to Nikki.

This having grand niece and nephew or whatnot, having one named after him, like something had to be very, there's a connection to family that I don't think he's ever felt before. Sure. Or hasn't felt in a long time. We'll be right back with more. That was us. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just our reminder to you that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. And no journey should be alone. Having someone with you, believe me, to listen to understand.

understand and to support you can make all the difference. No one has all the answers. I can conclusively say that therapy has sort of been the mainstay in my adult life, the staple that I can't live without. Better help not only has qualified therapists that work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S., they have a therapist match commitment, which means if you are not happy with a therapist you have been assigned with, you can just switch anytime.

they make it super easy, no problem. With over 30,000 therapists BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it works, with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client views.

You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash T-W-U. That's better H-E-L-P-com slash T-W-U. You know, nothing in a cart is ever ordinary, gang, because no one's life is. Shoppers at ship don't just care about the order. They care about who ordered it.

They're shopping for the moments we're about to create, and the memories we're trying to keep alive. They know it's bigger than just an ingredient or item on a shopping list. They shop same day in the same way you would. Come on. Listen. Give it to me. You guys, we had a very specific recipe that Rachel was trying to put together, a family recipe that has way too many ingredients, very specific kind of potato, these type of things.

So we put the order on, we got out our phones real quick, got our phone, boom, shipped right there. Made an order. The shopper with shipped communicated with us through the whole process. There were a bunch of kind of weird things that we needed. They got us every single one of those things. I love it. With shipped, it's never just a delivery.

order. It's shopped same day in the same way that you would. Use code podcast to get a year of shipped for only $49. That's half off the regular $99 price at shipped.com slash offer. That's S-H-I-P-T dot com slash offer. Terms Apply. This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch. The real power move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new power move. And I think one of the things that Cassie says to him on the way to the airport kind of identifies, you know, through therapy, we identify the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. negative core belief that we might be holding on to that is affecting I am unlovable yeah whatever

that thing is right and and in the car Cassidy says you know they've got two newborns do you think you should get him a heads up and he says he essentially says what does he say uh no if i don't make it i don't want to disappoint him yeah right so he he establishes and we see it throughout this episode we can talk about it this idea of i am inherently a disappointment a disappointment yeah I am unreliable yeah yeah and I am a disappointment I let people and I let people down yeah and that's like his core that keeps him isolated and and we see we see not only how it plays out here and how it's challenged you know with him traveling through the airport and all those things

but yeah essentially as we go back in the flashbacks we find out kind of where it emanates from yeah which one of those paths because there's two Nikki passed storylines, which is interesting. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yes, yes. There's like as a young man

pre-Vietnam and then a post-just post-Vietnam or a couple years post-Vietnam. Let's do the pre-Vietnam because I feel like that sort of is really what shapes him, right? Go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he has, we find young Nikki watching the moon landing with his father and he's built a lunar module. Yeah. And he's watching it with his dad. He likes models. It ties back to the thing that he was building in the present. Correct.

Yes. He's, yeah, he's very dexterous. Sure. He can make little things with his hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his mom, Jack comes in, his mom comes in. They all kind of like, and Jack is noticing, like, this sort of experience bringing the family unit together. Yeah, right.

And Nikki seems content, and Jack is content, seeing Nikki content, and his parents getting along. and everything. It is an opportunity. I think Jack is the audience in this particular moment of witnessing Stanley in a dynamic that we haven't gotten a chance to see a lot. Sure. Like there's a softness there. There's a softness.

There's an ease between him and Nikki that I don't think we got a chance to see a lot of between him and Jack, dad, and. You know what I'm saying? Correct. And there's like a sense of like witnessing this historical moment together as a family and like how much that means to Stanley and to Nikki, to everybody. And yeah, you're right. Jack is sort of the proxy for the audience at this point.

It made me, I was trying to think, as I was watching this family gathered around, you know, the moon landing. Yeah. When was the last time either the country or the world was united by something good? Because I was trying to think of what else unites people. And I was like, well, 9-11. Yeah. It's like war, disaster, tragedy. Yeah.

Like, where we were all, and even the pandemic was divisive in its ways, as this season has shown. Yeah. And I got to say, even in this episode, in the next episode, like, seeing the masks, I was like, even I was like, now, okay. Take them off. Okay. Like I was feeling triggered. No more. Okay.

Okay. No more mask. But like, I can't remember. I mean, the show starts with the Challenger. That's right. The Challenger disaster. Yeah. Like all of these disasters bring us together,

but the moon landing was something to be all inspiring. Yeah. That brought not just the US, but the world together. And I can't think of the last time. To a miniature extent, I would say the Olympics, like, happens. There's a certain sense of like national pride that goes on there.

But even because that happens every two years, it doesn't feel as momentous in a way, you know, that you're like, wow, we're all in this together. Not to take away from athletes. It's just interesting how much we have over-exposed ourselves to shock and awe. Well, isn't that the thing, guys, that I am like very much wrestling with these days. is like we are so inundated with everything. Yeah.

Content. Like you said, shock and awe, shock and awe. Nothing is shocking these days because it is all in front of us at all times at any moment. As soon as it happens. As soon as it happens or we can find the commentary on it, it's just like when you speak to the fact that we are not supposed to know more than 75 people, my brain immediately goes to the internet. And to our phones and how connected we are and obviously the wonderful aspects of it, but also I feel like I am plagued now more so than ever before by the negative aspects of it, where I just have really taken strides in the last month or so to be like,

I am extricating myself from this sense of responsibility that I feel to be on my phone the time and I'm just like. Is this lint related or just like you're just trying to. This is not I was like lint no lent not lent. Not lent related. No, I'm not a good Catholic. This is where we find out. This is where we're like, I'm like, L.Andi is a devout Catholic after five seasons five seasons. Um, no it's just more of like like, like I woke up and was like why I feel so bad. Why am I allowing myself? Yeah. Chris realized this long ago. Yeah. I'm like, I don't. I don't. I don't want to feel bad anymore.

What does it mean? What does it look like? It means I am bricked from my phone. For like certain hours? What does the brick do? The brick is like a little plastic device. They should advertise in our podcast. A big brick shout out.

A big brick shout out. I am, I will extol the virtues of why it is. So it's great for us. I'll be on the brick. It's a little device that you basically, you download an app. You choose what apps. You want to be sort of like brick-trum, not have access to. And you physically have to touch your phone to it to allow access to and from these apps.

So people will leave this little plastic device in their car, at the office, at home, wherever. Yeah. And you don't, like, I can't get on any social media apps. Really? And I have to tell you, there's something about the wiring in our brains, like, literally being away from it for a, couple hours, your brain forgets about it. When you physically can't get on and you don't have access,

like my husband will delete it and then re-ad it, delete it and then re-ad it. But when you can't get on it, your brain just goes, okay, so now I have bandwidth to do anything else. And I can still text message or answer emails or whatever, but I just realized

oh, my life is being sucked away from me by choice. And I'm like sitting in bed while my husband's reading and I'm scrolling for 30 minutes or whatever, finding things I don't care about. Like, I never get off my phone and go, I'm so glad I did that. Like, I feel great for spending an hour, just like mindlessly looking on my phone at things. I don't care about. I don't need to know. And just being away from it, yes, you feel slightly like untethered or out of touch with like

what my friends are doing or whatever, what's happening in the world. But also you realize like, Oh, I don't care. I don't need to know any of that stuff. All of that to say, it just like, yeah, I'm, I'm, when I watch things or read things or we're talking about things now where there's any sort of connection to something that comes back to like being connected to the phones or connected by an event that's happening or something, it just makes me realize like, oh, we don't. I think it's going to become more and more of a thing for people to, to, to, to,

be more intentional with the time that we're choosing to spend on these apps or connected to each other in that way because I just, again, not to go down like a real rabbit hole, but it's designed to make us feel bad. It's designed to make us feel depressed. It's designed to make us feel isolated. And I was like, oh, I'm just not going to buy into that anymore. I'm going to choose when I want to go on for five minutes and ten minutes, post a couple of pictures. except the collab for the podcast and then be done with it again and like really be present for my family for myself in a way because I just like it makes me feel really shitty and I was like wait why am I doing this to myself anymore so yeah yeah that's my little PSI I like it we've lost we've lost value in the analog right correct in the analog interaction in the analog activity in the physical encounter you know you hear all all of these stats about the anxious generation, the ones coming up behind us and the fact that they,

there's all these stats, you know, they're not drinking alcohol, they're not having sex, they're not all of these things, which is like brought teenage birth rates down, but they also don't know how to have a conversation with a person. Yeah. They don't, you know, because they're not spending any, they're not drinking alcohol and they're not, they're not accidentally getting pregnant because they're not spending any time together. Yeah.

Yeah, no phones. So there's these ups and downs of like trying to figure out how we can stay connected, especially now that everything is just at our fingertips. Yeah. Entertainment. And the convenience is great. But I think it's like being intentional and knowing what you're like what you're spending your time with. Like I love being able to order food or get a car or all of those conveniences is they're fantastic.

I think it's the social interaction that we come to rely on. and really how it colors our world, how we see the world, how we experience the world that I sort of, again, maybe as an old person, almost 42, I'm like, oh, I don't like this anymore. And I don't like how my instinct when my kids go to, like, play with a toy or read a book is to, like, absent-mindedly check my phone. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I don't want to be that parent. I'm missing out. A few, maybe a long time ago now, we talked about the Artist's Way and I was running an Artist's Way group over Zoom. Cassie did this with you, right?

Yeah, Cassie's on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a bunch of parents, it's essentially, it ended up being a bunch of parents with kids under the age of eight. Yeah. Okay. And friends of ours who are all over the country, St. Louis, New York, Oregon, like, all over. Yeah. And what we've realized is, on two, on Tuesdays at 9.30, after all the kids have been dropped off, we log on and we discuss a chapter or

whatever. But we're done with the book. We're done with the artist's way. And we're like, let's just, how about we do this? How about this is just on the calendar? Yeah. You know what I mean? And Tuesdays at 930, someone will be here. Right. We might not all be here all the time. Right. But, and this is where at least, I know it's still a digital connection, but it's, it's a way for us to to take a moment and just be like, no, I want to commit to this. But I argue that's a different thing than commenting on a picture or a video on social media. You know what I mean? It's like that is, that's real connection.

Yeah. That's not connection. You're not talking to a fucking bot. You're talking, you know what I mean? Like, it's, that's, that's cool. And that's what's what's, what is a lovely aspect of the convenience of our phones and computers and technology and all of that. Right. I love that.

And I feel like I crave more of that in my life too. I mean, it's just like we're all busy people and everyone's across the country and we're sort of spread, you know, away from each other. Finding ways like that to sort of bring each other into our lives on a weekly basis sounds ideal. And you just commit to it. Like going to the gym. Yeah. You know, it's like, no, this is something that I need. That's important.

Like this is not, yeah, that's important. It adds value to my life. Yes. Yeah. It's community and interaction, even though it's happening over screen, just like the episode that we did a couple of weeks ago or whatnot. But instead of this e-community, which is very different because it's also based on an algorithm. And so to their point about the moon landing, there's very few things that we are universally consuming as the world. Yeah.

What is on my algorithm is different than your algorithm. Exactly. It's not on my. different than your algorithm is different than your algorithm. I looked at Ryan's and I was like, man, this is crazy. Like, you'd look at completely different things than what I'm looking at. So the opportunity to experience something collectively has gone away. Yeah. You know, so like that moon landing.

You'd think it would have become easier. Listen, even, we're talking about the moon landing. Even something as simple as being a kid waking up on Saturday morning so you could watch Smurfs. So you could watch this. And then on Monday, say, did you see the episode? Yeah. That doesn't exist because they can watch what they want when they want to want. At any time. It's a whole new world. Yeah. Yeah. And they're never bored. Which I think is like, is it, yeah, got to be bored. Yeah. We're having that kind of issue with Bear right now, where it seems like he's reaching for control over things. You know how toddlers will do that. We're like,

No, and they put their foot down. I'm like, and it's like they're trying to wrench control back over the over something. And I'm like, I don't think it's because he doesn't have control over things. I think it's because he's in control of everything. Yeah. Yeah. That's, wow. I hear you.

Like, and I think that's freaking him out. Yeah. Like, I shouldn't be in control of this many things. I'm five. You know, I'm five. Like, stop giving me all these choices. You know, it's like we've been given this idea of like parenting where it's like, no, you can show, you can, you can have the choice.

Do you want to wear these pajamas or these pajamas? Right. He's like, just put me in pajamas. It's like, too many choices. Yeah, all day, every day. It's such, it's an, and it's an interesting, and what we're watching is Nikki in this episode, which we can get back to the kind of flashback of where all this stuff gets set up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

where he's just like trying to reclaim the analog, right? I'm going to make this thing. I'm going to get on a plane and I'm going to go. I'm going to go there in person. You knock on the door. Yeah. You know, and we see how that is becoming difficult for him and why it's so difficult for him. And in one of the flashbacks.

Jack, yeah, Jack basically confronts Nikki in the kitchen and asks him like, you ever going to move out? Yeah, you got to get out of you. Like, are you going to not be dad's lap dog forever, getting him beers? Like, just kind of... Because as lovely as it is, his dad's still making fun of him, calling him a girl. Right. Like, yeah.

Yeah. It's still, for as, for as abusive as Stanley can be, this is about as loving as he can also be. Which is to sit in the same room and watch the same thing on TV. Sure. And Jack's like, don't you want a girlfriend? Like, and he's... There must be somebody nice at work. There's someone nice at work.

And, of course, there is someone nice at work. There is. Yeah. There's Sally. So he works at a vet clinic. Shirley's got a crush. Sally's cute. She's beautiful.

Sally's beautiful. Yeah. I ain't going to lie. Yeah. I remember, like, I was like, oh, right. We still in this TV show, we have one of the, one of the sexiest romances. Yeah. It's yet to come.

Yeah. No. Oh, it's true. The two of them are so sweet. So charming. They're at there. So we go to the vet and Nikki's trying to watch the dog, but the dog won't move. etc. So here comes Sally, just stripping down to a slip.

Yeah. Slips, I guess that's 60, yeah, everybody's got to slip on underneath. When did slips stop? When did slip stop slipping? I think it was part of her very groovy 70s attire. Okay. Late 60s, early 70s. She was in like a little like... Talk to me about a slip, though. It was like a slip dress.

But what is it? So if you're wearing a slip, are you... Are you also wearing underwear under a slip? Yeah, 100%. So what's a slip? Well, it was like, it's basically just a dress. In this case, I mean, sometimes people wear a slip and it's kind of more coverage if you're wearing something that's sheer. Oh, got it.

But in this case, it was a dress. She just wore, had a little, like, something over it as well. Does it make the thing that you're wearing on top flow better? Yeah. Does it slip around? Is it hot? Is it slip hot? Guys are cute.

No. I just realized. It's basically a dress. It's just a little silk dress, and then she was wearing something on top of it because, you know. Is this stay warm? Is it give you more warm? No. It was just a fashion choice.

Natalie's not laughing at us. It was a fashion choice, right? I know. I'm like, how am I explaining a slip to these boys? It's just a fucking dress, guys, okay? It was a dress and she had a little velvet, like, overcoat thing on top of it. So there was a time where ladies wore two dresses. They still do.

I get it. Like, I think it's more, it's more of like a, church thing now, at least what I, like, I know ladies still wear slips to church, no? I don't know. I think it's. I think so. But you wear them. And I never go to church.

Two slips? Are you wearing one now? Is it like a skirt or is it like a dress? Yeah, you wear an under sheer dress. Got it. Okay. Instead of just buying a dress that's not C-C. She wasn't undressing in this.

She was just taking her long sleeve. She didn't want to get that wet. Yeah, exactly. She didn't want to get it wet. Is he's okay? You get a slip wet? I'm just kidding. Listen, that was silk.

It's NBC. Yeah, it was cute. She had to put something on. Yeah. But they washed this dog together. She basically is able to, like, lure the dog over. Exactly. And they all get wet together.

Yes. Playful and fun. And she asks Nikki if he likes to look at the moon. Yeah. And he's like, what? And she's like, I'm going to go, I'm driving up to Mount Washington. I'm going to look at the moon. Her and Pearl.

Yeah. We don't know who Pearl is. She invites, I know, whoever Pearl is. It could be like a throuple. Two ladies. Yeah. To look at the moon. And Nikki's like, okay, I'll meet you and Pearl to look at the moon.

Yeah. But this is after. Oh, wait, no, he does. This is after Jack shows up to pick him up from work or something. Oh, that's right. It's like trying to play wingman and our strong, feminine lead in this episode. It's like, excuse me, sir, I can ask your brother out on my own if I want to. Yeah.

Do you want to come? And then she says, hey, want to go look at the moon? And he says, yes. Yeah, I like you. Yeah. So he goes and he finds Sally and she's in Pearl. Pearl. Pearl is her van. That's all sort of like hippie decked out, whatnot.

Very sweet. I want one so bad. Yeah, it looks so bad. That looks like you. I've almost bought a VW bus twice. That's like a project for you. I could see that. It would be so much fun.

Totally. It'd be so much fun. And she asks them about them. Like, what do you know about the moon or something? Yeah. And he starts to talk about it. And this is his way in. He's like, he knows everything about the moon.

I've been waiting for this my whole life. And he starts waxing poetically about the moon or whatnot. And she's taken by or whatnot. And he looks over at it and he's like, I'd really like to kiss you right now. And they kiss. And we have a little montage. They're making out at work. You know what I'm saying?

Coming back to Pearl, we're horizontal now. Yeah. That's more than kissing. That's TV for more than kissing. Once you get horizontal, that means more to come. That back seat falls out. Yeah. Amanda Lee.

I didn't mean to, but then I did. Yeah. And there's real joy. There's happiness. There's connection because he also says, now, did anybody else get scared when he says like, when he says the L word, like, I think I'm falling in love with you? Yeah.

And she's like, you think or you know. She said, best you think or you are you are saying? He said, hey, you're ready to say it. If you're going to say it, you better say it with your chest. Homey. Can you imagine if she really said that? You better say it with your chest. You're like, oh, wow, that doesn't feel appropriate for the time.

My guy. My dude. And he says, I love you. And, like, I got scared for him, but I was, is he moving too fast and whatnot? But it turns out that he wasn't. Because she's this free spirit. She winds up getting a thing showing about Woodstock. Like, this concert's going to happen.

All these people are going to be here. But also, can I say in the montage, like, he brings her home. The family loves her. That's right. She, like, compliments Mrs. Pearson on the Salisbury steak. She takes this very cute photo of the brothers. Is a Salisbury steak just a bunless burger? I don't know.

It's not a burger. I feel like the last person, I feel like the last person to eat a Salisbury steak was also wearing a slip. Probably. I feel like they went away at the same time. It's a little mini meatloaf. Yeah, something like that. Okay. Ew.

Listen, listen, it's before your time, Sam. I ate Salisbury steak. It looks like a California cheeseburger. No bun piece. No bun piece. It doesn't look like a smash burger to me. It's on top of a bed of mashed potatoes. It's a thing.

You don't like a potato mash? I do, but not with that on top of it. I used to rock a Salisbury steak. I haven't in a long, long time. I don't think it exists anymore. I don't think people make it. I remember in the lunch line. Yeah, for sure.

For sure, for sure. But everything is going well. Oh, it's so sweet. You know what I'm saying? And it feels right. Like she fits with the family. But she's a bit of a photographer. She snaps this picture of the brothers.

Yeah. She shows Nikki when he first visits her in Pearl, like all of the photographs she's taken. Yeah. But it's sweet because this photo is something that follows us and follows the Pearson boys. Yeah. For a while. Yeah. It's a sweet moment between them.

It's a wonderful sweet moment. Yeah. There's, so the Woodstock thing's going on and she's like, listen, I think we should go to this concert. check it out and he's like, yeah, I'll go to the concert. And she's like, you know what, after we go to concert, maybe we're just getting Pearl and go. Go to California. Let's go to California.

Drive across the country. I've heard that before. Yeah. Right? And he agrees. Yeah. Jack even says, like, if I met a girl like that, I'd be gone to California in a heartbeat.

Foreshadow. Boom. Foreshadow, moon shadow. Yeah. And so he says, all right, I'll come back after my parents go to bed. I'll meet you here. at 11 o'clock. Yeah, right?

Jack gets him a suitcase. Which? Samson Night. Which? I got you, Samsonite. He still has present day. It's got some duct tape on it. You know what?

I missed that. It's the same suitcase. Yeah. Blue Samsonite suitcase that Jack got on him. How about shout out to Michael Angerano when he clicks it open and goes, ooh. Like it was done. Also, can we take a second to talk about? this gentleman that is Michael Angerano.

Yeah. He is such a special actor, very much in the vein of Griffin, where you could just watch him do anything. Yeah. The choices he makes, I mean, I know we've had him on, and he's the loveliest, but like, anytime Nikki comes back around and we get this flashback of him at this age, I'd just like, wow, what a lucky show to have had all of these spectacular actors. Yeah, sure. Getting to do this caliber of work. Yeah. I just like, he's such a good human.

He's such an easy person to root for. And it also happens that he's really good at what he does too. So it's like the trifecta. And he obviously showed up first in the role of Mickey, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then when Griffin shows up, like, you can see Michael kind of adjusting a little bit. His performance a little bit to be Griffinish.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. in a way that's like really subtle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice continuity. It's so good. The night that it's all supposed to go down, the astronauts have returned home.

Yeah. Yes, and they're going to watch the parade. Yeah. And his plan is, their plan is to just hit the road, right? To just get in the van and go. That's right. And he says to her that I'll meet you here at 11 after my parents go to sleep. Correct.

During, when Jack brings him the suitcase and everything, he's, he's, hey, have you told them? Yeah. I'm not going to tell them. Yeah. I'm just, you know, I don't want to. And again, this kind of theme of like, I don't want, if I lose the nerve or something, right? Yeah. Like, he just doesn't have any faith in himself to follow through.

Yeah. Yeah. And then they're sitting and they're watching the parade, right? That night. Yeah, that's right. And he's looking at the clock. And it's getting closer. closer to 11.

It's obviously going longer than he thought it would go. Sure. And his parents are still awake. But he's also watching, I think this is probably the kindest and sweetest we've seen the parents. Yeah, I agree. There's this sense of forklemptness, for clumpness, that Stanley has sort of like, he's almost teary. Yeah, yeah.

Like watching the astronauts come back home and remembering a time. What was he recounting? He was listening to the radio. with his dad. D-Day. Yeah. About the bombing of Pearl Harbor. That's right.

Yeah. With his own dad. And he's like, and now here I am with my son. And we're watching these astronauts land after they walked on the moon. Yeah. Yeah, there is like a tinge of nostalgia. There is also this detail that we didn't add that when Jack's like, why are you, like, when are you ever going to move out?

And he's like, like, doesn't he say something to the effect of like, he's nicer? He's nicer when I'm around. Like, he's nicer. He's nicer. mom, like, so I think he does feel this responsibility, much like Randall, of just like, if I'm not here to do this, what happens. Right. Yeah, because he, mom comes, sits down, they hold each other's hands, and it's just like really lovely. And then we flashed to Sally inside of Pearl, laying down, waiting patiently, wondering, where's her man?

and we get a knock on the side of Pearl, he's here. We open the door, it's a park ranger saying, like, you can't park here anymore. You've been here for too long, you've got to move. And she's like, I'm about to go right now. It was, oh, man. So disappointing, I know. Oh, man. You're like, no, Nikki, your life could have been completely different.

Completely. Completely. More, that was us, after this short break. If this is us has taught us anything, it's that a home is never just a home. It's where all the big moments and the small ones happen. Like you think of all the Pearson House moments. There was always something happening in every corner. But in real life, there's usually that one space that just sits there.

And the practical side of it is those spaces still have value. Whether it's a guest room or your whole place when you're away, you could be listing it on Airbnb. and turning that unused space into extra income. And if you've ever considered listing your space, but it felt a little overwhelming, now it's easier than ever with Airbnb's co-host network. You can hire a local experienced co-host

who can handle the details and help manage everything for you. That's the part, whenever I've thought about listing my home on Airbnb or our guest house or anything like that, that is the part that has been kind of the most anxiety-inducing. like how do I handle all these bookings and the scheduling and watching the calendar? And, you know, if my guests need anything, I want to, I want them to be comfortable and I want them to be helped immediately. But if I'm not available, who can do that? And now Airbnb has a whole kind of network of hosts, professional hosts, who can do that for you. A co-host can handle

guest communication, manage reservations, and even provide on-site support. So hosting feels a lot more stress-free. So it doesn't feel like you're taking on a whole new responsibility. It just becomes something that actually fits into your life. If you're curious about getting started, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. So that's that's storyline. He doesn't make it. He feels the sense of obligation to stay home. Yeah. The other flashback is Nikki post-Vietnam. Yeah.

Right. He's living in that trailer. That's right. The trailer that we have come to know. Yeah, right. In the middle of rural Pennsylvania. And it's after the war. He gets a call from one of his buddies that the guys from his unit are going to celebrate the engagement of one of the other, his other buddies.

and he wants him to be there. Jack is going to potentially be there. And Nikki's like, I don't know. He's like, just write down the address and come. He's insisting that he should make it to this engagement party. The next time we see him, he is sitting in his truck. He's outside of the bar. And he's just debating whether or not to go in.

He sees Jack. And this is like, we're like, okay, is he going to go? And in our minds as the audience, I'm even wondering, I'm like, wait, does he actually like have a conversation with Jack? Like, I don't remember this time period specifically. And then we follow Jack inside, you know, meet and greets like some of the guys outside. He goes inside and sits at the bar with Sheehan, who I believe is the gentleman that is engaged and is about to get married. And he confides about... A good jack moment.

He confides about Rebecca and, you know, he's fallen in love with this girl and he wants to repose to her eventually. And he's kind of thinking back to everything he's told her, this lie that he's told her about his family and about his brother specifically and what happened in the war. There's... I was just a mechanic. Yeah. Right?

And then my brother died. My brother died. They essentially were having a conversation about the compartmentalization that... that veterans have to do to navigate. Life. Life. Because as connected as the most empathetic people in their lives want to be. No one would understand.

And they don't want to put those thoughts in people's heads. They don't want to frame themselves in that way. People had to do horrifying, horrifying things and had horrifying things done to them. And so she had. Higand essentially tells Jack, like, his only option is to take every memory you have, photos, whatever, and lock it away. Yeah. And just go propose.

And lock it away. Yeah. I mean, that part of your life separate and go propose. Totally good thing. Which is a distillation of an entire generation of veterans. Veterans. And young men. Yeah.

It was post-World War II coming into the 50s, when leave it to Beaver, was a real reality for people. There was a country that was booming in all kinds of ways, and people were getting set up to prosper and to thrive. And then we took an entire generation of young men and sent them to a jungle somewhere that we didn't need to be. Yeah. And ruin their lives.

And cut off an entire generation at the knees. Because the ones who went there, obviously have been traumatized, but the generational trauma that it did to the people who survived them, to their families, to their siblings, to their partners is, I mean, we still feel it today. We still feel it today. Absolutely. So God bless anyone who has served in any foreign war. Yeah, we salute you and thank you.

Thank you for your service. Jeez, Louise. It's also just like, you know, the debate I'm having in my head right now is like, like, was this the right advice or the wrong advice, right? And I don't know if there is, if it's a binary like that. But I do think you have to be able to talk to somebody. You know what I'm saying? Of course.

And maybe it's not, maybe that isn't the person that you need to share it with necessarily. I'm not 100% sure. This is the other problem is that we do not provide, we ask everything of our enlisted soldiers and then provide them with the bare minimum of support. If that. When they get back as far as as mental health care or even health care period, it's it is the most contradictory kind of situation that I think our country finds itself in is because we want to, we want to stand behind our troops and support them, but we don't.

We don't. Yeah. And it's a real problem. We do with words. Yeah. We do with words. Yeah. Thoughts and prayers, everybody.

Exactly. But when the actual help and services that they would need, they're not at hand. There is this thing about like this, I'm taking this on a macro level and extrapolating from vets per se. But like the idea of compartmentalization as a coping, right? Like I think, I think ultimate. And I, because I used to have this thing with Ryan. So this is an extrapolation. I would be like, I want my relationship to be my relationship and like my work life to be my work life, right?

And over the years, like, those things sort of get like intertwined with one another in an interesting way. And it's like, oh, Ryan's at work. Ryan's supposed to, I'm supposed to be here and Ryan's supposed to be there or whatnot. And then when we have our time, it's this thing. And I think what I'm sort of in the process of understanding. is that like, the integration of things is something that may initially be uncomfortable because I'm used to having my peas here

and my potatoes here and my Salisbury steak here. Like I'm a food segregationist. But you make peace with the idea that they're all going to be digested in this belly, and maybe sometimes when you mix them together, it's not as bad as you thought it was going to be. I think that's the thing. I think that's the thing.

We have in our mind sometimes that if someone knows this about me, if I share this thing with this group of people or whatnot, then they will inherently not appreciate or see me the way that I want to be seen. And I think oftentimes the thought is scarier than the actuality. Sure. Yes. But I will also say that there is a place for boundaries. Sure.

You know, there's, the other day I was, I'm with this new cast of, of people. Sure. And I remember just sitting, sitting down and thinking about how, how you cultivate a cast vibe. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're strangers, but we are here trading in emotion. Yeah. You know, that there's some of it's on camera and some of it is personal.

And we sit around and we spend a lot of it. a lot of time sitting around talking. And I was thinking of myself, as I was sitting down, I was like, sometimes you overshare, Chris. You share a lot. Like, you know, we've talked about it on here, like just naked with your clothes on type thing. I'm going to push back after you finish.

Okay, no, please do. And I don't mind being vulnerable, as we know. Yeah. But also, think about it. Like, take it slow. You've just met these people. Like, if something comes up, And then sure enough, a subject came up in the conversation

and was like, well, I didn't need to get that deep with it that quick. But Christopher, you give people permission. Sure. Do you understand what I'm saying? Sure. I understand. And I don't, and I don't, I'm not, I don't regret it. Yeah.

I don't, I just want to be conscious of it. Oh, it sounds like you are, though. I'm trying to be. You are. It's one of the loveliest things about you, because you're right. It does allow other people to then share parts of themselves that they, maybe would hesitate on sharing if it weren't for. Right.

But there also needs to, and this is obviously, this was just a social interaction. But as far as what we're talking about here, these types of stories that Jack has or that somebody has about war, it's like you cannot unload these on somebody who does not have the tools to hold them with you. Yeah.

For sure. Which is a hard thing. to analyze in a person. Yeah. You know, like, there are things that I could share with you that maybe somebody listening does not have the, you know. Like, there are some people who watch our show. Yeah.

Who, like, I don't have the tools to watch this show anymore. This show is too much for me. Sure. I can't, right now, emotionally, where I'm at, not for me. Respect. You know what I mean? I do. So it's that type of analysis.

I feel. Mm-hmm. And to your point, because I think we, in our own artist's way, like are people who are prone to take your term, even though I, for lack of a better one, over sharing. Because I think the nature of the business, we know that demands intimacy. Yes. And that intimacy really only comes like if you're willing to share yourself with other people. Sure, you're right. And we've all had experiences where you're like with actors who are like, okay, we're on the same vibe.

And then we've had other ones that are like, oh, they're more. And you respect that and completely and totally understand it. But it's also like when you're about to get on that camera, and I've had this conversation with classmates of mine from NYU, I was like, I think part of our job is to be known. Yes. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. And my friend will push back and say, like, well, that's something that you're good at.

That's something that comes easily to you or whatnot. But I think, like, once we get on that camera and it's rolling, your goal is to try to tell the truth in a way. And, like, Mandy Moore's never been my mom or whatnot, but I want to share myself as much with her as possible. And vice versa. So that when that camera does, and it's not because of the camera, per se, it's just, like, who we are as people.

Sure. And the windfall, the byproduct is, like, people feel like, oh, these people have love for each other. And that's the interesting part, right? As we endeavor on these new shows, right? Yeah. That what people are, this is us is a good show. It's a great show.

But what people are responding to on a base level is watching a group of people who genuinely care about each other. Yeah. And there's all the acting in the world that you can do. If there's issues between people, Yeah. Like it's apparent. It can bleed through.

Sure. And people might not even know what they're feeling, but they're like, something's not true here. Yeah. Something's not authentic here. Right. So the cultivating the cast vibe is important. Those conversations and those chairs.

Yeah. You know, things like politics or religion or like whatever comes up. You're like, you gotta be really careful. Sure. You cannot just free wheel. Right. You cannot just be commenting on people's whatever. You can't, you know what I mean?

You're very gracious and considered and respectful. And so like that would never be an issue in this case. But yes, you're absolutely, yes. I can see it with younger actors who show up and maybe just overstepping a little bit. Oh yeah. You know where you're like, where you're like, easy. Easy. We are trying to cultivate something here.

Yeah. these scripts. Yeah, that's not helping. Like, you can't push these buttons, you can't, careful with the, like, careful with the, are you directing me? Like, like, you know what I mean? Sure. Because, because that's, you're saying, you direct me?

Well, you don't, that's, as that's happened to me with young actors where, where they, they will turn a big, hey, could you, in this next day, could you try, because what I'm trying to do is, you know, you've had this happen, right? happen, right? Where a young actor's like, they're trying to do something. Yeah. And they need something of you. They need something different from you. Right. And is it their coverage? Kind of. Okay. Kind of. What? I'll give some latitude. I'm saying young. I'm saying new. I'll give some latitude. But like in what that just to me seems very

balzy. It is. It is very bald. It's very balzy. Because also just do what you're, going to do. And react to what I'm doing. Exactly. And if it's not working, the director, we'll say something. Sure, say, sure. Yeah, I don't love that. I don't love it either.

But there is this moment of like me, me being like, okay, I am aware of the situation. Like, I know you don't mean anything by it. This is just an inexperienced person. Yeah. Who's doing their best. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?

That's generous. Now, I can't go on forever. Yeah. It can't go on forever. It will not go on forever. No, no, you got to put down. But it's just, it's just interesting. It's, you know, to get back to, like, Jack and these issues, it's like, I'm trying to cultivate a life here.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to start a relationship with this person. Yeah. And I need to be very careful the way she thinks about me. Yeah. Like, it's not that I want to lie to her. Yeah.

And, of course, there's safety and action. asking him this. Yes. Because like you said, being very intentional about who you're choosing to unload the emotional baggage on. Obviously,

someone who's seen it all and done it all alongside him is going to understand. The reverse of it is Nikki sitting outside in the parking lot in his truck trying to get the courage up to go. He sees Jack go in. He sees him in there.

He knows he's within 100 feet of his brother, who he hasn't seen in years. And he's going, and okay, he's rehearsing. Jack, I'm a different person now. Yeah. I'm not who you think I am. You know, because of what has transpired between them.

Yeah. He knows the way Jack views him. Yeah. Which is exactly what Jack is dealing with with Rebecca. He does not want Rebecca. To view him differently. To view him the way. Sure.

that you know what I mean and we even see Jack walk out and Nikki gets out of his car and he's sort of walking behind him and as the audience were like is he going to stop him? Are they going to have a conversation? Yeah. But he sees him look at the ring.

Yeah. And decides. I'm not going to do anything. Not going to interrupt this. Yeah. This life. There's no, there's clearly, he's clearly moving through his own life and I don't need to interfere.

interfere because I am not worthy of love. I am now, you know, all of these negative core beliefs that have isolated Nikki from the world. So then he goes back and lives his life isolated in his trailer. He looked at the picture. He puts the picture back and he goes back. There's the sort of coda to it is Nikki in the present. He's sitting with Kevin Madison and she's got to go put the kids to sleep or whatnot.

If there's a, if there's specifics that you guys recall, please let me know. But just a wonderful moment of connection and being in the presence of family. I felt like there's something happening inside of Nikki. And he goes to lay down a night and having a tough time going to sleep, calls Cassidy. It's like, I think I should get out of here. Like maybe I'm just sort of like, this is a mistake. Like, why am I here? Like maybe I just slip out right now.

Does she say something to him that gets him to stay? Does he sort of make his own decision? I don't remember. I don't remember either, but Nikki goes into the twins' room. Yeah. Right. This is where it got, Brown. And gives a classic, this is us, soliloquy.

Talking to babies or... In my mind, I was like, oh, there's no babies in there. They did have on the shot, which is like, how wonderful would it be if babies just stayed quiet and they were awake? Like, they're just looking around, but they're all sort of like, virgins. Ritoed up and everything and just like, if you have something to say to us, sir, we'll listen to you. We'll listen. Yeah. Nikki, sorry, Cassidy assures him.

She's like, look, I didn't know this brother of yours, but I know he would be very proud of you. Yeah. He assures her that Jack would have been really proud. I was like, yeah. And he goes to visit the twins with the light on, did anyone else? Like, I was like, what? Why is that gigantic bright light on in newborn baby? That's how people sleep

And that's how Yasu wanted to learn That's how, of course In my mind I was like I'm surprised Yasser didn't want it darker This is true You know what I mean? Key lights He lights over eyes

He brought them like Michael Crichton books Right? Grisham John Grisham, sorry Rainmaker Yeah Whatever he could find at the airport

Because the gifts he made them were ruined He talks about you think Or about all the mistakes You make in life Right And he starts talking about how the impossible became possible, just like that. And for 50 years, I lived in a trailer and went nowhere.

But then I got this invitation. He said, I've been stuck. But here I am. I made it. You two are my moon. Yeah, it was really beautiful. It was really beautiful. And anything good that ever happened to me seemed impossible.

Yeah, he just, the impossible. possibility, the moon, like those themes just kept like sort of like reverberating over and over again. It's really, yeah. It's got to be part of the problem of what's going on now. Just like we don't have a moon. We don't have something that we're all striving towards. We don't have something unifying that is joyful or all inspired. And as he mentioned earlier in this episode, like no matter where you are in the world, you're all looking at the same.

moon. There's not that sort of significance in the world for all of us to realize, like, there is more that unites us. There is this, like, ever-present thing that is a constant. We see it in the sky every night, and we're all looking at the same thing, wherever we are at any given moment. There doesn't seem to be that same thing in existence right now. Yeah, that brings us together. I mean, in our own tiny little micro way, the show was that. Yeah. And it just, yeah, it's, it's, um, I'm glad that at least we can continue bringing this to light. Yeah. In, in our own way, having these conversations about the show that did bring a lot of people together. That's right. From all different stripes and walks of life. There's this last thing.

Kev comes in in the morning. kids are asleep. Nikki's sleep in the chair there. He sees the gifts that he brought the books or whatnot, but he opens up one of the books. And sees a photo. And sees that picture. Yeah.

Of the Pearson Brothers. Yeah. Salisbury's steak. So we're going to be back with our favorite segment, a little trivia fan segment. All right. It is time for one of our favorite fan segments, trivia.

That is right, Mandy Moore. We've pulled together some questions about this episode, and we'll see how well we really paid attention. All right. Today we are also joined by one very loyal listener who has contributed frequently to our hot take segments. Hot take. Let's give a warm welcome to our trivia contestant, Lynn Standridge. Lynn! How?

Hi, Lynn. How are you? Good. It's so lovely to have you. We've seen your name so many times. it's so nice to put a face with the name now. Thanks for having me. We appreciate you being here.

You're our biggest contributor. So I feel like you're kind of the fourth host. Yeah, you're the de facto fourth host. You're hosting, right? I am hosting. Chris is hosting. We have a slightly different format today because in the past when we've done these trivia games, there's been a little bit of a Zoom lag.

Is that true? Or am I just awesome? Sterling. And it gives our competitive trivia players over here. Too much or an advantage. So we have a new format this week where we're going to do easy questions, medium questions, and hard questions. All for points. Everyone is going to get their own question.

Okay. Okay. And so I'm going to go through and Sam is going to keep score. Okay. And we're going to see who comes out on top. So if we can answer our own question but somebody else can. No, I think it's just we either answer or we don't answer it or don't answer it. Okay, got it, got it.

Okay, deal. You can always chime in, but she just won't get no points. Okay. Just for fun. If that's why you're asking, Mandy. Understood. I want the point. Yes.

Yes. All right. We are going to start with Sterling K. Brown. Okay. Easy question number one. What is the reason Uncle Nikki initially shows up at Kevin and Madison's house? To see his namesakes. To meet the twins.

It's incorrect. It's for the twins baptism. That was the easy question, Sterling. Sterling is already down one point. Steam. Steam coming out of his ears. Lynn? Lynn, Lynn, I feel like you knew the answer to that one.

Yeah. Of course she did. I should have let you. I should have let you. I should have let you. All right, Mandy. Oh, gosh. Your first easy question.

Yeah. Who helps Nikki figure out modern things like ordering from Amazon and traveling? Cassidy. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Ding, ding. I'm okay. Are you going to be all right, too? I'm going to be just fine.

Okay, okay. Let's see how Lynn is. Your first easy question. What is the name of the girl Nikki likes in the flashbacks? Oh. That's right. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Nice.

Well done, Lynn. So we have Lynn and Mandy doing very well and Sterling doing less well. Okay, I got it. That's fair. That's fair. Cool, cool. Sterling, easy question number two. Yeah.

What mistake does Nikki make about how the baptism is happening? He didn't pay attention to the Zoom, so he thought he had to be in person. That's right. See, you redeemed yourself. You redeemed yourself. Thank you very much. Mandy, easy question number two. What famous event are Nikki and Sally talking about when they first talk at the veterinary clinic?

The moon landing or the moon, the module coming back, the astronauts coming back. Which is it, Mandy? Oh, gosh. I guess they're talking about. the moon landing? Ding, ding, ding, ding. All right. Okay, okay, okay.

If Sterling loses by one point, he's going to be so mad. It's going to be fun. It's going to be sweet. It's going to be fine. All right, Lynn, your second easy question. What handmade gifts does Nikki make for Kevin and Madison's twins?

That's right. She's locked in. Nailed it. Nailed it. Lynn's locked in. All right. Step my game up. Let's face it.

Lynn knows the answer to all these. She does. If anybody doesn't know the answer, we're going to Lynn. Okay. All right, medium, medium hardness. Medium, well, medium. Story mother. Medium.

Sterling, your first medium hard question. What food does Sally compliment when she comes to dinner at the Pearson House? Salisbury steak. Ding, ding, ding. Right on. All right. Mandy, your first medium hard question. What job does Nicky?

have when he meets Sally in the flashbacks. They work at a veterinary clinic together. Ding, ding, dang, all right. Lynn. Here we go, Lynn. Your first medium-hard question, what problem does Nikki encounter at the airport when he tries to bring the twins' gifts to L.A.?

Yeah, it's too much more. That's right. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Nice. Airport security says, these snow globes have too many ounces. Too much liquid. Sterling.

Yes, sir. Medium number two. Okay. Where does Sally invite Nikki to go before driving across the country? Woodstock. Nice. Dang, ding, ding. Nice.

Mandy. Why does Nikki say he didn't tell Kevin he was coming to California? Uh, what doesn't tell? Why does Nikki say that he didn't tell Kevin he's coming to California? This is a medium hard one. Maybe I'm just not saying it. No, I hear what you're saying. I bet you do.

Didn't tell Kevin that he was coming to California. Yeah. Because he... Wait, let me say that again for him. Why does Nikki say he didn't tell Kevin? Oh, so he's saying this to Cassidy because he didn't want to disappoint him if he didn't end up showing up.

That is correct. Yeah, sorry. The way it's working is. I got you. You should have said, what did Nikki say to Cassidy? I just wanted to change the emphasis. Thank you. The emphasis on the syllable.

All right, Lynn, your medium hard question. What is the name of Sally's band? Yes, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This chick is dialed in. Here we go. Lynn is dialed in. We've known this. Let's go.

Here we go. We've known this from the beginning. All right, these are the hard questions. Oh, gosh. Too hard? What's that? We'll see. It might be.

We'll see. God, how old are you guys? Two hard questions. We'll see. All right. Sterling, your first hard question. Yes, sir. What does Nikki tell the woman sitting next to him on the plane?

Oh, that he hasn't been on a plane since 1971. Correct. Nice. Why was he on a plane in 1971? It's coming out of Vietnam. That's right. Ding, ding, ding. Thank you.

Complete answer, Mandy. You ready for your first hard one? I think so. What advice does the sergeant give Jack about dealing with his war memories? Store them away. Compartmentalize. Dang, dang, dang, dang, dang. I felt like you were soft on that one.

There was probably more specific wording, but I'm okay with it. I just want to say... Oh, you're okay with it? I'm fine. I'm just saying you massage that one, but if I didn't say baptism, all right, that's one point for brown. But that was the answer. I have to get the exact lines. Like line perfect?

You're good. I'm being petty and soon. Let Lynn go. She's got this. Lynn's got the answers. Yes. Lynn, what does Sally ask Nikki to explain when they look at the moon together? Why does he love the moon?

Yes. Almost exactly as written. What is it? What is it? Why does he love the moon? Okay, okay. Oh, God. Why does he love the moon?

Pete, nice. Sterling loses by one point. Here we go. So tasty. Let's go. What, Sterling, what fear? Yes. What fear does Nikki admit he has about traveling across the country with Sally?

Oh, yeah. He kind of feels like, what if she's not into me? Like, I'm not really a California guy. She may, like, drop me off in the middle of somewhere and I'll be stuck and by myself. Like, that she's not as into him as he is in there. Is I need to be more specific? Nope, you nailed it. Okay.

Yeah. Really good. Really good. Really good. Yeah. All right. I'm good for food. You're good.

Good host. That's my favorite. That's my favorite on those, like, who wants to be a millionaire, when someone gets the answer right, but the host lets the music swell. Yeah. And they have the straight face, but the music is swelling, swelling.

That's correct. That is correct. Mandy, hard question number two. What two replacement gifts does Nikki buy for the twins at the airport bookstore? I am going to need titles. Oh, the Rainmakers one. The rainmaker. I don't remember what the other one was.

The profession, no, no. It's another John Grisham book, isn't it? I'm not a John Grisham girlie. Both were maybe, I mean. Yeah. Lynn, do you know the answer to this? I do. Go for it.

Go for it. The firm. The firm. Yeah. Come on, Lynn. Do I get like some points for having half the answer? No. Damn.

This is cold. All right, Lynn's going to fumble. This is Lynn's last hard question. Lynn's going to fumble. What phrase does Nikki repeat to himself in the car when trying to build the courage to go see Jack? I'm better now. I'm the monster you think I'm in.

Nailed it. It's unbelievable, Lynn. Lynn's a super fan. Wow. She's dialed in. You don't have Q cards anything, do you, Lynn? I don't even think we need the tiebreaker. Yeah, no, we don't need the tiebreaker.

Lynn was 12 points, Sterling was 11, Mandy. Well done, Lynn. Wow, Lynn, you are the winner. Lynn, I forget where are you in the country? Yeah. Where do we find you? Maryland. And Maryland.

Nice. Well, thank you so much for being such a devoted, Listener to the podcast and watch her of the show. We really appreciate all your support. You rock, sister. I love you guys so much. I love you guys so much. We love you.

We're going to mail you a poster as your congratulatory gift for kicking our butts. She won fan script. Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for joining us. All right, Lynn. Thank you. We'll see you in the hot takes. Yeah, see you in the hot takes.

Bye, Lai. Bye. Bye. Okay. I love it. I'm still, like, sour that I didn't get. a half a point. Yeah.

For half of that right answer. But, you know, whatever. Would you like one? I missed the... No, no. No, hold on. Hold on.

There you go. You can have it. I can have it? Yeah. Doesn't count. Nope. Since you both lost miserably... It's aggressive, but sure.

To our finest listener, Lynn Standridge. Link killed. We're going to give you a chance to compete here. Okay. Go ahead. Scores have gone back to zero. Oh, all right. You ready?

Wait, I thought I had 11. We're going back to zero. Okay. You came in second. You came in second place to Lynn. First place to me over me. Is that better? This is a new game.

New game. New game. New game. Just between the two areas. Go for it. Buzz in with your name. Yeah. What does Nikki say to the twin?

What does Nikki say the twins are to him when he walks? Sterling. Moon. Yeah. Yeah. He just said Sterling. You have to buzz in with your name. You have to buzz in with your name.

That was like what I looked like when I got tased. When, Ryan, when, Maddie, you just remind my wife when watch Jeopardy? She starts doing this shit like she gets you. Me, no, go ahead. Okay, go ahead. That is a good reminder, though. Nobody can buzz in until I finish reading the question. Oh, you have to finish the question.

Now that's the new rule. Oh, now that's the new rule. Oh, yeah, y'i, these guys. Okay. What does Cassidy say Nikki might go back to doing if he runs away from the love in his life? Mandy. Drinking? That's incorrect.

Would you repeat the question, please? No. Go back to doing. What is Cassidy say? If he runs away from the love in his life. From the love in his life. What does he say? Sterling.

Your time is up. She says he would go back to his trailer and stare at the same plot of land until he dies. I wouldn't have got it. I wouldn't have got it. I wouldn't have that either. Fair enough. All right. This final question.

Yeah. It's worth two points. Oh, God. You son of a biscuit. The only way, Sterling. New rule. I just make it sure I'm reading it right. What?

What moment shows that Jack never knew. Nikki came to see him before proposing to Rebecca. Sterling. Nikki in the parking lot, watching Jack holding his engagement ring as he leaves to go and propose to Rebecca. It's carry out. That's more than we needed, but it is correct. Wait, how do we know that Jack never saw him? What moment shows that Jack never knew Nikki came to see him before

proposing to Rebecca. Yeah. It's a weird question. As he's going back to his car. No, I know that, but like, turn around to talk to Sam. No, no, but Sam, that's a weird question. Like, what moment shows?

Because he's, because we see that, that Nikki saw Jack, but Jack never saw Nikki. Yeah. Sure. See, you guys make it seem like I'm the one. I don't think. I don't think. I don't care about losing.

I just think that's a weird question. I don't think, I don't think Mandy is. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't... I think Mandy's lost before. I just don't... I never think she's lost twice in one day. No, no, no, that was a new... No, no, that was a new contest. That was a new...

That was a two-point question. No, I am... I am not as competitive as Sterling. I'm definitely fine to... You did get blown out, though. That was three to zero. If you're not, you're close. We're close.

I mean, I like, I'm a perfectionist. I'll say I'm more of that than competitive, because I'm not like a... I'm not an athlete, like in games and stuff. I'm like, I'm just going to. Okay. It is fun, though. I like the energy of it.

I enjoy the energy very much. Yeah. It's fun. And it is nice. It is nice when I host so that I don't blow you both out of the water. You know what? You know, to just kind of take it, take me off the table.

You know, just kind of let me. Yeah, the real threat. Linda's awesome. I kind of had the feeling that she knew everything. Yeah, yeah. She would have gotten all those questions. We weren't going to stump her. And she would have asked us.

a question that none of us would probably answer to. So that was the end of 5-11. Great episode. And it sets us up for, 5-12 is going to be fun too. One thing that I'm going to comment on 5-12, I'll probably say it again next time. I missed Mandy Moore.

Oh, I'm not in 5-11 either. That's in, like two in a row. None of us were in 5-11 besides it was all like, you know, a little bit of Kevin and Madison, but it was mostly Nicky. That's true. His storyline in the past. Little Milo.

It's crazy. Yes, I had just had a baby. You just had a baby. So they very kindly gave me some episodes off to be home. But yeah. Why don't you take two weeks? Take two weeks and then come back. I did come back after a month.

You did. You came back fast. Yeah. And they had the trailer set up for you so you could nurse in the trailer and everything to come back. It was nice. It was cool. It was a homie. Who wants to look into the camera?

That was us. Yarr. That's cool. That's good. That's good. Another great episode of That Was Us, and this is just a quick reminder that these episodes are available one day early on Mondays exclusively on Hulu. Don't forget to like and subscribe, support our sponsors, tell a friend, grow the dang show, y'all. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions.

music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.