That Was Us - What Happened to Nicky | "Vietnam" (304) with special guest Michael Angarano

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

This week, the infamous younger Nicky Pearson, AKA Michael Angarano, joins the pod for a discussion on Season 3, Episode 4: Vietnam. Not only do they talk about pivotal moments that happened in this episode, from Jack volunteering to enlist so he can find Nicky in Vietnam, to things in their childhood that shaped their relationship, but the group also chats about Michael’s time working on This Is Us, how he got the part of Nicky, what it was like working with Tim O’Brien and Milo Ventimiglia, and so much more! Support Our Sponsors: - Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host - Take the next step to improving your health: go to lumen.me/THATWASUS to get 10% off your Lumen. - David is offering our listeners a deal to buy four cartons and get the fifth free, at davidprotein.com/thatwasus. - This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/TWU and get on your way to being your best self. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season three, episode four, Vietnam. After watching his young brother Nikki get selected in the U.S. draft lottery for the Vietnam War, Jack makes a life-altering decision to enlist himself, forever changing the course of both of their lives. This is an ad by BetterHelp. 26% of Americans surveyed have avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of being judged. This Mental Health Awareness Month, let's break the stigma surrounding seeking support. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com slash TWU today for 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp.com slash TWU. You guys, it's a very exciting day. It is an exciting day. We have another guest. We have another guest. You might know him as young Nicky. Yeah. But you may also know him from Lords of Dogtown.

Yeah. You may know him from The Nick. Yeah. You may know him from almost famous. Oh, my goodness. Or you may know him from his brand new movie, Sacramento. Come on, no. Michael Angerano.

Michael is here. Wow. What's up, buddy. Nice. intro nice intro nice plug yeah thank you buddy i saw your movie let's just get straight to yeah let's get straight do that you're gonna make me blush i'm already blush you're gonna make you make you blush um you have uh written a movie you have starred in a movie directed yeah you have directed this movie it is called uh sacramento mm-hmm it is starring yourself and michael sarah and your

wife partner my both wife and partner wife and partner yeah Maya Erskine. Yes. And Kristen Stewart. Yes. And I saw the premiere about a week ago. Yeah. And the movie has not left my brain.

He loved it. It is a classic, like grounded in reality, heartfelt, straight up comedy, which nobody makes anymore. That's very true. And you have to see this movie. Thanks, man. Can you give us that elevator pitch? Please. It's two old friends, myself, Michael Sarah, who go on an impromptu road trip from

Los Angeles to Sacramento. That's it. That is literally, that's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. And it started as exactly that. We started writing it 10 years ago. And it's just funny because we're shooting this, doing this in Los Felas adjacent area, east side.

You know, this was the old stomping grounds 10 years ago. And I don't live around here anymore, but driving around here, I'm like, oh, yeah, we used to write in this coffee shop. We used to, we just, you know, we used to hang out at the par three down the street. This is like where my friend Chris Smith and I, we wrote this 10 years ago and didn't start. When we wrote it, we didn't really know what it was going to become.

We wanted to make it eventually. But it started just as this impromptu road trip from Los Angeles to Sacramento. It started as like a joke. Hey, you want to like a million signs around Los Angeles, say I5 North Sacramento. So we just reverse engineered this story around that joke one day. We did a pilot together that didn't get picked up. So we were unemployed hanging out, going to like the par three and the batting cages. And we, yeah, man, we just, we just, you know, as we grew and evolved and matured as guys,

like the story changed and evolved and kind of became what it is now, which I don't want to spoil the movie. We're not going to spoil it. But that's sort of what, that's kind of how it grew. Given the old school nature of what you're talking about soul in the movie, how hard was it to get a theatrical distribution? Was it an easy pitch? What kind of hurdles did you have to go through

in order to get it made? I mean, so many. So many. And I'm so happy that it's gotten a theatrical release and a pretty significant one. I mean, it's all over the country. It's not, it's only, it was only in a couple 200 theaters, but still it's like people in, you know,

all across the country and Canada can go see it. So it wasn't until I think I watched our notes screening. We had a big note screening when we were editing. Where I realized how much a movie like this needs to be seen in a theater. Because it is a comedy. And it's not the same when you watch it alone in a room. Sure. And even it affected our editing process.

It's like, oh, this actually plays and it plays bigger. And so to answer the question, I think when we were. making it, I mean, even though I would have always loved it to be in a theater, I don't think I ever was dead set on it being released in theaters. Because I was just like, oh, I just want people to see it. However people can see it, whether it's on a stream, whatever it is these days, I was like, that's going to be what it is. And so the fact that we got an actual significant release in theaters, I've just been so

happy because it's so it's so harmonious with the film itself. Like it really should be seen in the theater and it's really nice to see it with people. Yeah. To experience it together. It should be just, you know, you forget. Yeah. The communal experience of laughter

together. So necessary. Yeah. It really is. I brought my buddy Simon and as soon as it was done, we both were like, I would sit down and watch that again right now. And I haven't felt that way about a movie at a long time. That's not. It's also only 84. minutes long. That helps. So that does help. Take it straight to me. But listen, that's what I want. You want to move you. Either 90 minutes or four hours long. Everything in like the two,

everything in like the two and a half. If you can't tell it in 90 minutes, it better take four hours. Right. But like 245, what's 2405? It's offensive. Right. A four out. It needs to ruin your day. It needs to like, I'm not eating lunch. You need to prove to me that it takes this long to tell a story. Exactly. Yeah. I feel the same way about the year. Totally. I bet. Right. August Osage only. This better have no intermission or a dinner break. Yes, yes, yes.

Last one before we get into this episode, directing the wife, collaboration. Talk to me a little bit about that. I want to direct my wife. Just in general. Tell her what to do. Is that awesome? Well, the trick is you don't.

That's part of it. That's part of it. Well, but the really amazing. I've always kind of said that this film just because it was always written with the idea of it being fun for us like it was never really wrote it to make money we're not making money

but it was always with the idea of like if this ever stops being fun we're going to stop and for Chris and I so always was born around this like good energy concept and then when we are trying to package the movie Mike Sarah we get

who's I've been a friend of for you know 20 years at this point and so Maya came around we were not together I did not know Maya personally at all I was just a fan of her show Penn 15 and so I wrote her

a letter asking her to you know if she was interested if she would want to attach herself to the part and this is how you guys met this is how we met The boy's out of here! See, a good question round. I'm proud of my...

Yeah, this is how we met. And this film, we met... She said yes, which was, for us, it was like a miracle. Because for this character, she's like... It's such an important, integral character to the story, and I've always said it. And this is what I said in my letter to her. I was like, really, the film... The film's tone, the films...

I mean, everything about the film really hinges on this performance and this character. And so it's a small Venn diagram of what we need from this actor to play this part. And so the fact that she said yes was like such a win for us. And we wouldn't meet Maya and I for like months

because she was doing season two of her show. And so it was like a very, very small window. Her agent called mine like the day before she's like, Maya will be available at 4 p.m. tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm there. You have her for 30 minutes. Yes. No, literally.

I was like, wherever, however, I'll, like, I'll bring her lunch, whatever it is. I'll, like, just want to say hi and duck out. I'll give her babies. Yeah. So, literally, I will start a life. And so the meeting went very well. Very well. Went very well.

And we, truthfully, like, we spoke about the movie for, like, seven minutes. And we met for, like, you know, two hours. It was just like. And we just very much got along. But we wouldn't, the movie wouldn't get made for several years. And so, you know, we just kept in touch. And, you know, months later, we started dating. And then, you know, the movie would get made.

By the time the movie got made, we were engaged and had a child. Listen. You want a wife. Write a movie. Yeah, write a movie for her. Write a movie for it. And when you see the film, you're engaged. film, it has this amazing sort of propheticness to it.

Oh, I can't wait. Okay. Guys, I'm telling you, I'm like, I know exactly what I'm doing right after this recording. It was really great. Okay, let's talk about this. Thanks, man. Thanks, guys. Michael Lingerano started acting when he was three months old.

You were a child actor. Yeah. First gig was I'm not Rappaport. That's true. Walter Mathau. When you were three years old. Ozzie Davis. Yep.

I was five. I was five years old. Five years old. You walk through this career and this is us comes around and it's a shot in L.A. Yep. To everybody for actors. Very enticing. If you live in L.A.

It's a great thing. My God. It's a nice, calm, relationship-based drama. It's already picked up. It's already like a well-wale machine. You think great. This is going to be an. A nice gig.

And then they say, welcome, welcome to this show. We're going to put you up in Lake Piru, setting shit on fire. Oh, yeah, you're in Vietnam. You're in Vietnam. Sorry. Right. Sorry. Your first episode lands you in Vietnam.

And here we are in the episode entitled Vietnam. That's what it's called. Written by Tim O'Brien. And Dan Fulgerman. And Dan Fulterman. Tim O'Brien, you brought to our attention, again, is the author who also. The Things they carried, which is a famous. book, I think, from like the mid-90s that chronicled his time in Vietnam.

Yeah. That's right. And the episode opens on Jack in Vietnam on a quote-unquote special mission doing top secret government stuff. That's right. And we quickly learn that he's trying to track down. His brother. His little brother.

Trying to track down, before he gets to his little brother, you see that they're sort of surveying the land, what have you. And they have their scout out in front who's looking for the landmines. and he's having this conversation with another brother who's in his platoon, in his troop, et cetera, played by Mo McCrae. And Moe McCrae has been there for 90 days, which means he only got 90 more days to go.

I'm halfway done, I'm on my way out. Two things I like about this is because I hear you and you ain't even been here as long as me, Jack, and you are already leading this platoon or whatever. Two things that tells me, Jack, natural leader, number one, Two, subtle not to racism. Subtle not, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, shout out for, you know, calling a spade of spade. Because, you know, they ain't going to let no brother run this group. But Jack is a leader. Right. And three, not a mechanic. Not a mechanic. He's always told us that he's been a mechanic. It turns out that he's the staff sergeant in charge of a group of men, right?

They find a mind. They were able to successfully blow it up without anybody getting hurt. later on in the evening they're hanging out and a couple of guys are playing football yeah jack's like please quit playing around you know what I'm saying let's get serious or whatnot guys like I bet you can't even throw it that far my man goes out for a pass squirrel yeah squirrel hits a mine blows up then VC start opening fire and there's there's a little firefight that's going on through this whole thing um now this I think it's important that we say that this episode really interestingly is told in reverse chronological order.

I think there's a line in it that sort of like sinks up to it. And it's a line that you have. Hopefully you watch the episode. Well, I've seen it. Yes. You were there. You were there. You remember. It was all good. Because it winds up, we find out throughout the course of the thing that Jack did not have to be in Vietnam.

Sure. Right. Right? We have the draft going on right now. And we'll get to it a little bit. bit later on. But Jack enlisted. And it winds up that this mission that he had, or the place where he stationed, is just a few clicks away, 20, 25 away, from where his brother's stationed. And so he gets off the helicopter. He walks over. He goes, hey, little brother, Angarano. It's very nice because he's got his pants pulled down just so you can see a little bit of that V, that V, Jack,

that goes right there. And it's real sexy and real cool and very miscellar. And very nice. Classic, classic Vietnam film TV look, shirtless and dirty. It's like he has on underwear, or maybe he does it, you know? Maybe not. Maybe not. And he turns around and he throws anything and the fire comes up. And it's like, oh, I got on glasses, but I'm cool with my glasses, bro. You know, this shit plays.

And we meet Nikki. And we meet Nicky. Yeah. We meet Nicky. So you land is all, this is all in Lake Piru. This is all up in Lake Piru. Yeah, that was. When you guys shot.

Yeah. Did you work with Milo before? Yes, we did a film together, a Jason Statham film called Wildcard. Of course you're dating. Yeah, we shot at the New Orleans. We didn't overlap a lot, but when we did, it was always a very grounding presence. Wait, yeah. With Statham or with Milo?

With Milo. With Milo. I teach you to elaborate. Please. This is, for our listeners, Milo Ventimilia is dearly beloved by every person here. And he's also just the man of mystery.

Yeah, he's an enigma. He is an enigma wrapped inside of a puzzle. Like, he is, he broods. Well, you forget. It wasn't until the same, I don't forget. I never forget. I dream about him all the time. But there are actors, and then there are movie stars.

And Milo's is straight-up movie star. He drops into a place that you have to drop into with a certain amount of grounded nature that is really carries in this Vietnam episode. Sure, yeah, sure. We'll be right back with more, that was us. Do you ever think about the different places that have shaped your life, the homes you've lived in, the places you've

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And it's such good information to have. And the little Lomans like, no, no, you're in this spot. You need to be doing more of this. You're burning too many carbs in the morning. Today is going to be a low carb day for you. Yeah. The feedback is very helpful to like plan my day out. I love that, dude.

This is amazing. Look, sleep, food, exercise, stress. it all plays a role. I notice when I get eight hours of sleep and do a quick walk before bed, I wake up in fat burn. If you're looking for more energy, better sleep and support with weight management, this is it. Take the next step to improving your health. Go to lumen.combe. me slash that was us to get 10% off your Lumen. That is l-U-M-E-N-D-me-slash-that-was-us for 10% off your purchase. Thank you so much, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode. Did you guys, before you got cast,

did you guys talk to each other at all before? We'd just sing each other on set for the first time? Yeah, how did you get cast? Just an offer? Yeah. Cool. It was one of those where, like... Yeah, yeah, I mean, offer only.

But it was also like a wonderful surprise. Like, it wasn't like things were just rolling in. And I also had just come off a show that was... uh didn't get picked up for a third season and so no it was this other show called i'm dying i'm dying up here okay and and and so it was this like weird in between land where you're like i'm not sure if this show's going to go anymore and like what am i and so my agent call me and he was like i've never been this excited about something for you and he was like you know there's this arc on this is us that that that i was in atlantic city at my mother's dance dancing schools

dance competition. Okay. Where, like, I found out about this. And I talked to Isaac Aptaker on the phone at this dance competition, and he, like, pitched me this arc. And I was like, sounds crazy. You're going to go to Vietnam on the show. Right.

And, right. I mean, it's, it's, you're going to be on this as us, but in Vietnam. In Vietnam. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't totally clear exactly, you know, he didn't tell me everything. Okay. but he told me

he told me a lot he basically told me the first four or so episodes that I was on yeah gotcha how many episodes did you end up doing that's a great question I think like eight or something yeah

eight or nine or something like that and so but no I hadn't spoken to Milo and just via text a little bit and then it wasn't until I showed up had you done any military stuff before no you had you'd done whiskey tango

and you had done Army Wives Army wives. Army wives. And then I actually did JAG, you know, like a few different things where I had to. There's, I've only recently had my first encounter with like a military consultant on a set. Yeah. And it just seems, it seems like a lot of pressure to represent a time or a person.

I didn't know if you, if you guys had any experience with that. Have you had any of that where it's like this is a different level of like, like, Responsibility. Responsibility. Impersonation for lack of a better world. On Army-wise, we would have consultants all the time. Because the main thing is you just want to get it right. To honor the people that have served the country, when they see it, you want to say, like, okay, that looks real.

Right. You know what I mean? That's the bottom line. Right. Yeah. Did we have that on the show? Yeah. Okay.

There was like this very, you know, a very brief but intensive little boot camp. that they did with the soldiers, the actors who played the soldiers in the show. And as one would expect, this took place in Lake Pairo. And as one would expect, Milo was like... Leading the charge. Leading the charge. And actually, I was late. I was late the first day.

Because they weren't bringing me to it. Yeah. And so it was like the morning of it, and I was like, I found out. I was like, I think I should go to this. They were excluding me from it. And I kind of weaseled my way in, so I showed up late. and and I forget his name but the consultant

who was running that boot camp didn't know that you weren't supposed to but yeah yeah but he was also like hey you're late like kind of giving me shit like don't like we don't get late here and Milo was like hey no you're not going to give him shit right now he fully

that's right Jack Pearson and I was like yeah man This is actually a little bit of a little bit Before we get past this part in the story I have a little bit of a hot take Oh let's hear it And it's a Jack Pearson hot take Come on now

Go for it Easy don't look at me that Yeah I was like okay what is it Yeah right let's let's hear it It didn't track for me That Jack was not supportive Of his fellow soldiers baseball dreams Wait

He kind of is like Yeah good luck with that And I was like, I don't, that doesn't feel. Well, it felt kind of Jack Pearson to me. I feel like Jack Pearson would have been like, because baseball. It just felt a little like shit-talky, though. A little bit, but there's a certain part, I just, I understand it's a hot take. When they're like, when they're walking before they encounter, I'm going to Amarillo and I'm going to do this.

Well, it's Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente. Yes, yes. That he's saying that he's going to come and take them. And Jack is like, what I mean. But what I mean is morale. morale, morale-wise, dreams-wise. I was like, I feel like Jack Pearson would be like, you know what? Supportive?

You can do anything, buddy. I feel like in the heat of what they were doing, like, that just feels a little more like. Yeah, it's a little more lukewarm. There was just sort of the banter of like, we're in this together. Well, because it's twofold too, Sally. First, he's talking about taking out Willie Mays, right? Who's like the greatest. Then he's talking about the greatest also who's from here.

his hometown of Pittsburgh. That's right. He's like, if I can't do that, I'm going to do that. Good luck with that. Fair enough. I should also say, before we even got, get to Nikki, there is a KIA and a WIA, right? So squirrel wound up passing away from that, from that bomb. Yes.

And then Robinson wound up losing his leg. Yes. And this is one of the beautiful moments. We were talking about this a little bit before camera, where Robinson looks over to Jack and he says, man, aren't you tired of pretending that you're not scared? He's like, I've been pretending my whole life, man. It's just the way that I do. And it's the birth of this thing.

It's like every once in a while, my mom or my dad, I can't remember. It says, like, you know, you just have to remember to do the thing that sustains life when you're afraid of losing life because we stop breathing. Right, right? Every once in a while, you just got to breathe. And it was this beautiful thing of Robinson, Mom of Cray, reaching up to Milo, putting his hand on his cheat and just saying, breathe, Jack. And, like, it hitting Jack, and then there's a quick pop flash of Jack holding his hands over his young black son's face and saying breathe. And you so realized this thing that we've seen for two and a half seasons, where it came from, whatnot.

And it was really, really beautiful. I also just, like, that a black man taught it to him that he's teaching it to this young woman. Yeah. Oh, it was, that was the first time in the episode. I was like, whoop, I forgot about that. That really got me. Yeah. Yeah.

I wrote that, yeah, he was so scared that we're going to die, we forget to do the thing that keeps us alive. Right. Just breathe. So now, okay, this is interesting because we're talking about Vietnam, but the next thing that we do is that we go back, right? And we go back. I'm trying to remember what the time is.

It jumps to a garage, right? Jump to a garage with the two of them in the garage, right? And we see one of the best wigs. That ain't a wig. That was your hair, right? That ain't no wig, my mom. Excuse me, I'm sorry. Is that you?

That's all me. It became a wig later in the show. Got it, got it, got it. But that was, that was a long flowing, delightful, right. Shoulder length. Yeah, you are. Really good hair.

Crackle pop. Shoulder length. Yes, sir. So we find Jack and, and Nikki, in this garage. Yeah. Discussing the impending, the impending draft. The impending draft, right? Yeah, because I, you know, I didn't,

I don't know too much about the draft. So this was actually really educational for me because it just sounds like on one night they're going to call out birthdays. And if your birthday is called out, you've been drafted, right? But evidently, the nuance of it is is that it usually only gets to like the first 50 or maybe even to 200.

So we just want your birthday to be called out 365th. Like that's what we're hoping for in this whole thing. And the birthday is October 18th, right? Which is really interesting because this air date was October 16th. So I don't know how they timed it out there. I'm making it like as close as it was there. But so they're there and they're talking about it.

And there's a glimpse of a Superman either before this when he walks into, oh, it was it later. I get my chronology right because the Superman imagery comes back in the sort of like narrative of the show. The kids, the baby, Nikki and Jack are playing with their toys. Exactly. But one of the things that really just sort of hitting me and to let me know how blessed and privileged the life I've had is the opening shot of Mrs. Pearson or whatever is with the black eye. Yeah. Right.

And it just really, like, I don't know how, why this is so profound to me or whatnot because I know too many people have had to live with it. You know what I'm saying? but that like that was common or maybe not common or whatever maybe it was common in jack's house but like people get domestic abuse is a real thing that people live with right like it's not like it just like it you stop the presses and everything stops and then we're going to write this wrong like this woman has been living with this right these children have been bearing witness to this for an extended period of time like and just to see what Jack came from and the house that he wanted to create for his children.

Like from that episode before, I want to be, have a family, have kids about as far away from anything that I grew up. You know what I'm saying? How do these conversations work for you when you are coming in to a, like this domestic abuse storylines been going on in our show for a few ups for, you know,

a season, a season and a half now? And how do they catch you up to speed on? That's a good question. All the details, yeah. Or do they? I'm not sure they really did. I'm not sure we really discussed a lot about, about, the history of the family.

About their mother. I don't remember any specific conversations with Isaac or Elizabeth or Dan or can't even. I feel like that was one of the things that when I read the script, it was just a detail. And obviously, like I had caught up in the show. a little bit, so I knew about it, but that was something I, the script informed me of, so to speak. But we didn't really discuss it. But one thing I'll say is that when we, Milo and I all the time, especially outside of the Vietnam stuff, like all the stuff within that Pearson home, that Pearson home, all those scenes, there was

something that felt very, very lived in already. Like, it felt like it was all laid out for us. And we were just like, you know, when you're acting in something and you're like, oh, I'm kind of just like living this other parallel life. Yeah. It felt like that. Wow. It felt, and we would look at each other sometimes and unspoken looks to each other

where we would be like, this works. Yeah, that's there. Yeah. That's like, that feels right. Yeah. Nothing felt, nothing ever really felt like out of, out of, I guess rhythm is the wrong word, but it felt like nothing ever felt out of rhythm in that sense. The scene of you two getting ready to go watch the draft at a bar was one of those scenes

where I was just like, this just feels, can feel this tension. Yeah. Like this decades-old tension in this house. Yeah. Between, and the four of you, yeah, the history, familiarity. The four of you were in this living room, and it's just, like, really painful just to watch you be in the room together. Yeah. There's also this sort of, Nikki is, I mean, to simplify, feeling fairly pessimistic about what's going to transpire.

And Jack's like, no, man, you're going to be fine. He feels doomed. He feels doomed. He feels doomed. And the original title of this script, which I loved, was called Born, Love, and it was called Born lucky right because we've this is something that his mom tells him over and over and over again born lucky so you were born lucky yeah because the nurse we find out has told your mother that this is going to be a lucky baby yeah because of the number 18 because of the number 18 and

what would have happened if he was born like a little bit the next day it was it shows that you're born good no no I was just going to say wasn't it his his it would have been his grandfather's birthday right Jack's father's father's father's birthday they would Like three minutes. Yeah. They show the clock and you were, it's like. Right under the gun, yeah. If he'd been born 10 minutes later.

Yeah, so like 1140. He'd been October 19th. Right. And then he wouldn't have gotten drafted. Yeah. So they go. And because you said to him before, and it's like, if it happens, like we'll figure it out. And like, do you have a plan or something?

And this is where the Superman thing comes in. He's like, you've always been my Superman. Always come to save the day and fix things, et cetera, et cetera. And they get to the bar. and I think October 18th is like the fifth is the fifth one yeah right so you go and you can

as an audience member I felt the anticipation of like it's gonna hit isn't it and they do the first one you're like all right cool so they're gonna do it second or something so they don't make it too dramatic and the second one comes out and you're like oh he's still cool yeah then the third one comes you're like all right maybe

maybe shit's gonna work out the fourth one happens you're like oh dude jack was right and then the fifth one hits and you're like, oh. And fine is not normally where it comes. In probable. Yeah. I don't know.

I think that was the real footage. That's what I was going to say. It must have been. I think it was. I think they used the real footage. Yeah, I think you're right. The traumatic level of stress on a nation to have to sit down, what was it? What were they doing?

Once a week or once a... Once a week feels very often. But it clearly was like a planned thing. Yeah. And it happened more than once. More than once. The draft, as far as the history of our country goes, is that only in Vietnam? Was there a draft for the World War II?

I thought it was if there were other drafts. There were other drafts? Yeah, but I think that was the last draft. Sure. Got it. My dad, I just, last Christmas, I got my parents one of these storytelling websites. Okay. You can put your information in to share with them.

Yeah, and they send you a prompt. question to answer and you can write a little story about your life. And it's like a good way to get stories you might not know how to get or have the context to get. But my dad wrote a lot about this time and how traumatic it was. I can't imagine. Like the waiting and the, my dad eventually joined the National Guard in an attempt to delay his draft because National Guardsmen were the last to be sent overseas. Oh, really? Okay. And so he joined in San Francisco. Francisco and ended up on like a riot patrol protecting fire trucks in San Francisco at the time. And he just has all these stories.

And apparently he missed going by like one or two rounds. Wow. So how's your past? My dad was born in 47. Okay. My dad was born in 1941. What'd you look up? I was checking your Wikipedia.

On Michael's Wikipedia, says my dad, 43. No, no, I knew that. I knew that. I was just seeing what. his fourth movie was. When I knew that season three was going to have this Vietnam storyline sort of woven into the fabric of the show, I realized that I knew nothing about this time period and I started the Ken Burns documentary on Vietnam.

Did you? Wow. It's mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing. I highly recommend, I mean, like all Ken Burns, I, there's so much. information to chew on that like I don't and also this is like what 2018 I really don't remember much but I remember just being so fascinated and not that it had anything to do with like my character storyline but I was like this is this is a great like reason to delve into it

and man I couldn't recommend it highly enough that draft scene that draft lottery scene I think was the one day that I was around that Tim O'Brien was on set oh wow so I was so happy and And he was just, you know, I was able to just talk to him a little bit over the course of production and read his book. And it just was, he never, and he never stopped being, like, so helpful and effusive about the whole show and how it's being treated and everything. But he was, him being there that day gave it another air of, like, something in the atmosphere that felt, you know, that was, that was, that just. Yeah, very weighted. Yeah. That scene was, I think in the entire, my experience of the show was my favorite scene.

Yeah, that's a great scene. Just because I just exactly for what you guys are saying, it's like what a moment in history for these young men. And like I remember at the time my brother was 19 and, you know, these guys, these people were 19, 18, 19. that that is nothing. Nothing. That is nothing. Children. You know, and that is just still hard to comprehend how, you know, what's at stake, really,

and what's being decided for them. Yeah. Yeah. More, that was us, after this short break. You guys, sometimes life is nonstop. Sterling, you know this, Mandy, you know this. it's struggling work, family, or trying to squeeze in a walk between episodes. That's hard.

And that is when having a smart, satisfying snack really matters. That is where David comes in. Come on, David. You guys, I always have one on me. I have one in my purse. I have one in sort of my travel toads. Yeah. I'm someone that lately has just forgotten to eat a meal sometimes.

And so it's like knowing that I always have my go-to protein snack with me. Yes. Has become essential. It's second-hand. You introduced us to David because you love. love. Love. They're my favorite poetry bars. And since we started working with them, they sent us a bunch. And I literally have not walked out my front door. Without one. Without one in the last three months. It's the perfect little treat. I have to tell you. I just, I crave them now.

Favorite flavor? Peanut butter. Peanut butter. Yeah, the salted peanut butter. They hit different. David protein bars are different. They're packed to 28 grams of protein. Only 150 calories and have zero grams of sugar. And with 75% of their calories coming from protein, They beat every other bar I've tried. Yeah, and most protein bars are basically like candy in disguise. Yes. David is not. Come on, David.

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That's why I always have David protein bars with me. David is offering our listeners a deal to buy four cartons and get the fifth. free at davidprotein.com slash that was us that's davidprotein.com slash that was us to get your fifth carton free humans aren't perfect but david is this episode is sponsored by better help now if watching this as us has taught us anything it's that families are complicated life is messy and our emotions don't always follow a script we've seen how unresolved pain can echo across generations and how powerful it is when people take the step to work through it. And even though the world is having more open conversations

about mental health these days, it's still hard for people to reach out. A recent survey found that 26% of Americans have avoided seeking help because of fear of judgment. That's why we wanted to take a moment during Mental Health Awareness Month to encourage everyone to check in with themselves. Therapy isn't just for major trauma.

It's for anyone who wants to feel more grounded, build stronger relationships, or just be a better version of themselves. I think we've all talked about our therapeutic experiences on this podcast. It is important to talk about things. And it is extra important if it's heavy stuff to consult a professional. Who knows how to hold space, who knows how to give you the safe opportunity to work things through. Yeah, to unburden yourself. I am recently back in therapy after a couple of years of taking some time off.

And it is just such a relief. And I always say this to myself, like, why did it take having a major trauma to find myself back into therapy? Because I find most often the times that sort of like are the most helpful are my therapy sessions when I don't go in with anything specific to talk about. Those are sort of the biggest revelations. It's almost like maintenance, right? You'd bring in the car every three or four months, you know what I'm saying? Just to get a tune-up. Like every once in a while we need a little tune-up. A little mental tune-up. There you go. Emotional tune-up. Better help makes it easy. to start. They've been helping people for over 10 years and they've matched over 5 million people

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I was just going to keep going. with what the next thing that happened in the episode yeah yeah is you guys go home and uh your dad rolls up on you and he sort of puts his hands on your shoulders and he says make me proud son right and it sort of hits you for the first time to in a small way that like maybe nicky's relationship to his dad may be slightly different than jack's relationship to his dad because i don't i don't ever think i would see Jack's dad roll up on him in any situation. No. And say anything remotely positive.

Yeah. And even the physical touch. Like the fact that I don't think we ever saw his dad touch Jack. Right. You know what I'm saying? And maybe that's because he's the youngest or whatnot. But that is an interesting thing to point out for sure. That's something that I felt like very powerfully in that moment.

But they sort of already come up with like, look, I know a guy. In Canada. In Canada, all we got to do is get across the border. You'll be fine. He's like, you can see Nicky's just like, I got to do something, I guess. Because at that point in time, understandably so, in his mind, the equation is this means I'm going to die. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Like that was the sort of clear, you know what I'm saying? Like people aren't talking about, oh, well, you know, I'll go do a few tours and then I get to serve my. No, like, you don't know what's going to happen here. Yeah. This could be a death sentence, right? one of the ways that him and Jack are so different because I feel like if Jack were drafted

he wouldn't have that mindset he's not he doesn't think of it as a death sentence yeah Nikki for whatever reason is cut from a different cloth so to speak and like no I'm not gonna make it yeah he's either you know smart enough it's like my younger brother when he he went on like one audition once and was like thinking about being an actor when he was very young and then he went on one audition

and he was like no I'm never doing that again Why would I do that again? Like, I think Nikki looks at that realistically and is like, I'm not coming out of that. Right. I'm not. Yeah. And maybe it's Jack's own ignorance, confidence, how he's built versus how Nicky's built. But he's like, no, I'm, I'm, that's not happening.

That's not my fate. Yeah. You know, if I go, I'm not coming back. Right. And they make it all the way up and they're staying in the motel overnight. And they said next morning we'll get you. across the border. But when Jack wakes up,

Nikki is gone. He's gone. He's written them a note. And there's a note. Yeah. Jack, thanks for always taking care of me. But it's my turn to save the Dave now. Love you.

C.K. Nice. He says CK. He says CK. Clark Kent. Yeah. Referencing Clark Kent. And so it's almost as if

Nikki said, I got to stop having other people sort of come to the rescue for me. And specifically a big brother. Specifically him, right? But what does Jack do? So the next flashback, right, is him going to the doctor. Is that correct?

I'm going to make sure he goes to the doctor, get a physical or whatnot. He's in good health because he's Milo. Yeah. And also, I just love seeing, was it a tidy whitey shot? Yeah. Oh, yeah. High rise. Can you, can you, guys, just real quick pause.

There was a time. Yeah. In the history of this country, whereas a young man, the only underwear that were available to you. Yeah. were tight, hugging, stark white underwear. With that navy blue and gold stripe around the... Let me tell you. I'm going to be honest here.

Yeah. My mom had me start doing my laundry when I was 9 or 10 because she's like, I'm not doing this anymore, bro. Yeah. Why is she not doing this anymore? Streak marks, bro. Streak marks. Thank you for being honest.

We're really getting me. Thank you for being honest. Marks are were real. When I woke up this morning and I was like, you know, when we get into this Vietnam episode, we're definitely going to talk about street marks. We better, we better, Sterling, better be honest. Listen, about the streak marks. Always on.

On his childhood underwear. People depend on us for unadulterated honesty. And where else are they going to get it? Let me tell you something. As soon as colored underwear became available, child, please. You broke your self. All day. Deep blues.

Deep blues. Deep blues. Mahogany. Mahogany. Whatever it took. Mahogany. Also, I got older and became more thorough. Sure.

Excuse me. Good store manager. Where do you keep your mahogany briefs? Briefs. They would have a white band still. Let me ask. As long as we're being honest, have you carried on the tidy? Whitey?

No. The box of brief is exclusive. Yeah. Because if we're going to go there, I did go. boxers for a while. And then I would wear my boxers so long, guys. Like, I was still growing. Yes.

That my thighs would start to get big. Yeah. I would cut the side. No, stop it, Sterling. Mandy Moore. So I had, like, jean shorts. Like jean shorts. Brown rocked loin cloth. Just a flap in the front and the flap in the back. That's all I needed. Coverage. Yeah. I just need coverage. But then because

another layer. Because I also have strong thighs. Yes. Didn't like the chafe. Yeah. Because you have loose fabric Nothing's protecting between So when the boxer brief came It was like, why didn't we not think of this all along?

You know, you have coverage, my thighs aren't touching anymore and their colors? Child, please. This was very informative. So here's another. Listen, me andes, if you're listening, we're here.

We're here for you. Wonderful addendum. Here's another one for you. So we find out in this physical that Jack has a slightly irregular heart... An arrhythmia, right? And so it doesn't cause anything necessarily, but it's a reason for him not to get drafted.

So he was sort of exempt from it. Which is a good story point because it's like, we're worried about him, but why aren't we worried about Jack? Yeah, why wouldn't he get drafted? Jack is exempt from this whole thing, right? But he can choose to enlist. Which is, I'm sort of confused on that, because sometimes things keep you, like, eyesight-wise,

if you want to be a pilot, you can't do it because of a certain thing. but evidently he can enlist, but he can't be drafted. I don't know if that's a story point thing or whatnot, but it was... Well, they're essentially, he's talking to this doctor about how to get around it. It's how to get around it. Do 100 push-ups before you go in and then just say you're kind of nervous about it. There are a lot of people who felt an obligation and a duty who weren't able to.

Who weren't able to. Yeah. And tried to figure out ways to get around it. And he talks about to his doctor in this story. He's my little brother, Doc. Like, my only job is to take care of it. I need to be where he is. I need to be where he is.

He's not doing well. He sent this letter back saying, is that at that point? Yeah. Yeah, he sent this letter said he's, you know, gotten something 15. Article 15? Article 15 or whatnot. So, like, Nick, he's just having mental problems. He's not just locked into this whole thing.

Maybe he's causing harm to folks around them or to himself. I got to go be there with him. Now, here's the actual side note. Legit. I have something called a PVC, or we'll just call like a preventricular contraction, which means every once and a while, I have an irregular heartbeat. Found out

when I went to the gym or whatnot right before Armywives and I used to do, go real hard. I would try to burn 1,200 calories in an hour. Okay. That's a lot. That's a lot. Why? Because I was that dude. What were you eating?

I was that dude. A lot. I mean, have you guys, have you guys not seen Paradise? I know. Episode 3 in the show. But, but, like, and so, So I don't know if I had drank enough water. So this is... The answer is you didn't.

Yeah. Okay. So I go to the drinking fountain. Yes. And I bend over to have a sip and I get a little spotty. Sure, yeah, yeah. Sure. And so I was fine.

I took my drink and then I sat against the wall. And then I started to slide down the wall. And I just sat on the floor of the 24-hour fitness. Yes. For 17 of the 24-hour. If you've ever been to 24-hour fitness. You don't want to sit on the floor. You don't want to sit on the floor.

No, because they're open 24 hours. And so basically, I'm sitting on the floor. There's no time to clean. I'm sitting on the floor just like this. And people are walking by, like, how you doing, man? I'm like, I'm great, bro. Thanks for us. How many calories you burn?

You know what I'm saying? And then they're like, are you okay? I'm like, and I was like, I just know I need to sit here for a minute. So anyway. We're late. Can you bring me a granola bar? Well, they called an ambulance. Because evidently they were like, you're not supposed to be sitting there for 45 minutes.

Right. And I was totally fine. They had to, they IV'd me, et cetera, but I wound up finding out that I had this thing. And I've had it. And it's never been a problem. So you didn't try to burn 1,200 calories ever again? Now it's around 900. Still, it's around a lot.

Now he knows. No, no, no. I can. So you speak to this. Because we're heavier, whatever exertion we do, will burn more calories. I see. You understand what I'm saying? So, like, if I weighed less and I did the same thing, I burn not as much.

I appreciate that you included me in your fitness category. I'm saying that to say, because people could be surprised how much, how many calories we can burn because we're being. You wouldn't believe the amount of calories I can eat. Burn. That was the quick tangent. Because when I, I mean, just to work out with a trainer, we aim for like 400, 5. Yeah. But even that's, that like, it feels like a lot. Here's the thing.

Well, I am curious, this is a full-on engine at this point. Because, okay, so I, when Maya was doing Mr. and Mrs. Smith, she was training for the show, and she started training with this, like, trainer, and they would, and I started training with them, too. Okay. And they were great. They were like, you know, they would really work you. But I would, and I've gone to the gym, I've worked out. I've played, you know, sports my whole life.

However, when I would work out with these people, I would always be like, I'm either going to shit my pants. Yeah. Throw up or pass out. Sure. And I don't want to feel that every day. No, you don't. And so it is the feeling of being like, I finding that like I want to be pushed. Yes.

But I don't want to like kill myself unless I'm like really starting to. I'll explain it to you. The trick is I try to do that to myself so that no one can do it to me more than I do it to me. That's it. Right. I don't have that kind of discipline. Mandy Moore, you climb mountains. Yeah, but I don't know.

You've given birth. You know what I'm saying? Tree time. Sure, sure. For sure. But that kind of physical exertion, like that you're making that choice just doesn't appeal to me. I'm like, I'll walk slowly on an incline on a treadmill. That feels good.

Which is right. Zone two cardio. Hey, let me tell you. Zone two cardio. Wait, 12 incline, 30 minutes. It's the best. It is. The Palatown, shout out.

Shout out of the zone. The Zon goes up to 15. Oh, I know. Right? And you can, like, I can walk. Because I have a long gate, right? And my wife teases me about this. Like, I can walk.

You know about long gate. I do, in fact. I can walk normally at about like a 4-4, right? Fairly comfortably. That's a quick walk from me. That's a quick walk. And my wife, when we go walking after her little, her little feet are like this. I have a longer gate as well.

My husband's always like slow down. I'm like, you're walking too slow. Yeah. I could keep up with you. You can keep up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 4-4 feels like a good. It's like in, yeah, yeah, I can walk.

The highest speed is about a five, five. That's, no, that's a jog. But I can do it for like a minute. Okay, yeah, that's more of a bit. You get that speedwalking? Why do that? Oh, dude, the hip starts. You get this motion.

Let's talk about the show. I just got to look from time to be like, you guys going to keep going. We're almost at the end. This is what people want from their podcast. These are really hot takes. Zone 2, zone 2 cardio is where they want to be. It isn't.

We are at the zone 2 cardio equivalent of talking about this. That's right. That's right. I literally just got a little hot. Just talking about Zone 2 Cardinals. So I think it's a one and a half right now. One of the last things in the flashback that we see that was one of the more powerful images for me in this episode was in the flashback after Nikki is born. Young Jack and Stanley are standing at the window looking at all of these babies. Yeah. And Stanley is telling little Jack now remember big brothers look out for their little brothers that's right it's their only job it's the only thing that matters which is maybe the greatest thing his dad has said to him he even says

like he's like and all these guys had the same brother had the same birthday as your little brother and it's it almost felt like if you guys know all my sons yeah arthur miller it's like they kind of felt like they're all my sons you can see jack saying like oh i got to go to this ward not just from this dude right for all of that but also yeah 18 years from now every single baby in this room every little boy if he is a yeah is so powerful going to be really good yeah they're good really good writers they nail it they definitely do before we get to that one though there's there's there's the line that i love that nicky has and it sort of explaining it will be after we get to it because we just got to it i'm just no let's go let's go back to it if i miss it go go what do we

Structurally, I think they're driving to Canada or to the border or whatnot. And Nikki says, it's weird how we look at our lives. Like, what's next? What happens next? Always moving forward. I wonder if things would make more sense if you looked at everything in reverse. If you started at the end and moved backwards, trying to figure out how you got there, right? Which is what the episode does.

Which is what the episode does. Which is what our show does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So because one of the next things we see is when we go back again, before we get to the birthday, right, is them playing football with each other,

which is an echo to the boys throwing the football in the future of the episode. And you see that Nikki, my God, I was like, you can't catch a damn thing. He's absolutely terrible and bust his glasses right in the face or whatever. And you see Jacksters saying, like, you know, I'll take care of you, man. He's like, you're tougher than you think. And he's like, you're like Superman. And Superman wears glasses. He goes, no, he doesn't.

He goes, he's just a tough guy in disguise, right? Clark Kent wears him. And one day, folks will see just how tough you really are, right? Like, he's always picking him up in a really sort of lovely way. Yeah. You know, he's seven years apart, the two of them. And you see it's just part of Jack's DNA to uplift. Yeah.

Right? And then, also to that point when Nikki is born, I think one of the more interesting developments that I thought was Stanley and who Stanley was as a dad and how he's evolved, yeah. And how he changed because his dad comes in, one of my favorite character actors of all time,

Michael Ironside, you know what I'm saying? Is he Jester? Who's he? Merlin and Top Gun? He's one of those two. Something like that. But he comes in and you see he's just grizzled.

Yep. You know, Burley, he gets there a little late. Depression-era dad. Depression-era dad. And you see Stanley's sort of bright-eyed, and he's about to have his second kid and so excited. And his dad offers him a drink. He goes, come on, Dad, you know I don't drink. Yeah. And we're like, we start this episode seeing his wife's black eye. Yeah. You know? And it's like, it makes, what happens? What is it that transpires in the fabric of a life, you know, that?

that it causes somebody to go from bright-eyed and what have you to defeat it and hurting people wanting to hurt people. Yeah. You know? There's an omniscience, you know, in our show that demonstrates the, there's an, I don't know where the adage comes from, but the idea that if you knew anyone's story, there's nobody you can't forgive.

Right. You know, there's nothing you can't forgive. Yeah. Because we all start as these little babies. being born all lucky to be born and then things unfold

differently for all of us yeah that's most of that episode I think we got it and we are able to fit in some fun discussions about streaks

and underweaks streaks sound too go see Sacramento when this episode drops I'm not sure will it still be in theaters

if not where can people find it it'll be on Hulu in a couple but when is it in theaters now It's in theaters now. So please, if you're watching right now, go see Sacramento. It's in theaters now, starring Michael Angerano, Michael Sarah, Maya Erskine, and Kristen Stewart.

It's one of the best movies I've seen in a long time. Thanks, man. Thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming and making the time. It's so good to see you. And hopefully you come back and talk to us again. I love that.

Yeah. Maybe we'll get you and Griffin in here at the same time. Oh, that'd be cool. Dueling Nickies. Yeah. And we do have a fan segment today. So will you stick around and do that with us for a couple minutes? Great.

We'll see you in a sec. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm really excited about today's fan segment. We got an email from a listener and the subject line alone stopped us in our tracks. Yeah, as soon as we saw the healing power of This Is Us, we knew had to read it. It was going to be something special. Yeah, that's Sterling. You want to kick it off? Let's do it, man.

Okay, so this email is from Susie Foster. Again, the subject line is the healing power of This Is Us. And it starts, Mandy, Sterling, and Chris. First, I want to thank you for creating the podcast. I've watched through the show a few times. It gets better with every watch. I didn't see the show when it first came out. My mom kept telling me to watch, so I finally gave in.

I will admit I didn't know if I could keep watching the show at first. I was angry at how it got under my skin so far. quickly. I was mad at Jack, furious with a fictional character. In my mind, no dad was that kind of dad. He was too perfect. Then he wasn't. Okay, sorry. Then he wasn't. Then he wasn't. All of us. This show made me a blubbering mess for many reasons. It would take hours to write them all down. My personal connection to the story starts with the theme of alcoholism. My father was an alcoholic. I believe he became one because of his service in the Vietnam War. He came back physically, but mentally, barely at all. He died nine years ago, and I never got to say goodbye.

Beyond that, I never got to repair our distant relationship. This show, the Vietnam episodes in particular, clicked into place that first trickle of healing. Jack wasn't perfect, but he tried. He made amends and he gave his children and Rebecca all the love that they deserved. My dad wasn't perfect i spent so much time being angry at him and didn't believe it when he said i love you bud the nickname he gave me as a child now i know he did love me that was a mind altering step toward healing all because of this is us thank you for creating such a life-changing show sincerely susy foster dude this is that type of stuff that you just don't like in the making of it you're like how how how will this apply how will this apply to someone's life what what what

what context or weigh in to a feeling or a life experience to someone need? And this show just has thousands of them. It does. Thousands and thousands of ways in. Like this whole idea, like she was mad. She was mad because she was seeing something that was too good to be true. Right. And then it became even more resonant when it was like, oh, he's not too good to be true.

Right. He's someone who's actively wrestling with a part of his past that he's, He doesn't know where to put, but he's trying to carve out the space still to share love, to share goodness with the people who are closest to him. Yeah. Right. And that idea that when he used to say it, her dad, that he loved her, that she's like, didn't believe it.

And then watching a show. Yeah. Right? Like, not to minimize, sometimes I think we can minimize and be like, oh, you know what, we got this cool little show that, you know, you know what, we got this cool little show that, you know, has a nice little message or whatnot, but the power of art for people to be seen and validated in these feelings or whatnot and to illuminate a perspective that like, oh man, maybe he actually did love me. And maybe I just couldn't accept it for what it

was because I thought it should look a particular way. Yeah. Right? Like that's that's that shit right there, bro. Thank you, Susie, for sharing that. Mark, any thoughts? It's so powerful. and it's, I'm just thinking in my head the amount of times that, you know, what goes into making anything and so many decisions, it feels very technical, sometimes you feel emotionally detached from it. And then the making of something is always different, but once something is out there, it becomes subjective. Yeah.

It becomes, you never know how somebody is watching something, what's going on with them that day, what's happened in their lives. But, you know, something that you do. Especially when it's on television, especially when millions of people are watching it. What I feel like this show did and does so well is it opens a vault. Yeah.

And that vault, it allows people to access and think about things that are really personal and it allows them to be affected by something. And it's just amazing how the vault that this show, unlocked in that and how you know intimately it affected so many people it's funny we often talk about like this specificity of this family and that these stories like it feels so hard to think that like there would be universal in the specificity but there is yeah you know and i also think like the connection that people are finding in this particular storyline with the vietnam connection

and how often maybe men of that generation were not willing to sort of open themselves up in the way that Jack also kept that part of his life very secretive. There is something probably cathartic about seeing that story portrayed on screen as well. It's so far away from us. Yeah. Right? It's so the idea of that time and that war and that place and the way that people lived and the things that they went through is so far away that it's oftentimes hard to come to a place

of compassion or understanding or forgiveness. And to have these little moments where you can, where, oh, that person, the person, Jack, looks like my dad in this scenario. Yeah, giving you permission to unlock that little piece of you. Yeah, and to wonder if any of this applies to your story and to reframe it in a compassionate understanding way is an incredible opportunity. And just to give them, you know, Nice shout out and credit.

Like when I, because again, I kind of caught up with the show once I got it. But I remember watching the scene with you and Milo. And I remember thinking how great you guys are. And there was just this moment that he had where when he's telling you he's drunk. And he says, I'm drunk right now. And I'm like, wow, that is such. What made it so powerful to me is that he didn't seem it. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And that's true. anybody who knows people who are functioning, alcoholics or drug addicts or anything. It's like, yeah, he's not playing. It is just so tastefully and well done, I thought, in that moment. I just love just to go back to this letter. It's just that specific moment of somebody you know who is really struggling with that and it's not always apparent.

Keeping something from you, yeah. And he did it so well. Yeah, amen. Incredible. Thank you, Susie. Thank you, Susie. Thank you to young Nikki Pearson. Michael Angeran.

Michael Angerano for joining us. Thanks, guys. And will you look into that camera and say that was us? That was us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.