The a16z Show - a16z Podcast: Mastering the Game (with David Oyelowo)

Episode Date: September 30, 2016

This special episode of the a16z Podcast is based on a Q&A from an early screening we hosted of Disney's Queen of Katwe, now in theaters. The movie -- directed by Mira Nair and based on a book by Tim Crothers -- depicts the true story of Ugandan chess prodigy Phiona Mutesi. The conversation, hosted by Ben Horowitz, features actor David Oyelowo who (among other roles, previously played Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in "Selma") and plays Robert Katende, the engineer-turned-mentor who taught community sports and chess to kids in the slums of Kampala, Uganda. photo credits: Prentiss Earl lll Stay Updated:Find a16z on YouTube: YouTubeFind a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Show on SpotifyListen to the a16z Show on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi everyone, welcome to the A6 and Z podcast. Today's episode is based on a conversation between actor David O'Yalow and Ben Horowitz that took place last month at the A16Z special screening of the new Disney movie, Now Out, Queen of Katwe. The movies directed by Marinere and based on a book by Tim Crothers about Ugandan chessmaster Fiona Mutesi. David plays one of the main characters in the movie, Robert Katende, the mentor who taught chess to kids in the slums of Kampala, Uganda. Thank you very much.

Thank you. I think they liked the movie. That's nice, very nice. Congratulations, first of all, on making just a beautiful film, and thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I really, really, really appreciate that reaction. It was a labor of love for us, as you can probably tell from watching the film.

These are images we don't tend to get to see. Of people we don't tend to get to see in this way. And as a child of Nigerian parents myself, having, ah, my sister. I feel so much more comfortable now. But anyway, it's just amazing to be able to share these kind of images with you guys and for it to be so well received. So thank you. Great.

And one of the things you were saying to me earlier was that there's a lot of movies about Africa, filmed in Africa, but they don't show a part of Africa. Africa that you really wanted to show. And can you tell us about that? Yeah, I mean, look, it's no secret that the narrative thus far cinematically when it comes to Africa has been largely through white eyes. I love all you white people in here, please. Don't get this twisted.

But, you know, and not only through white eyes in terms of who's making the movie, but in terms of the protagonists as well. You know, this phrase, white saviour has become something that is more well known now. And that's largely how we have seen Africa. As an African myself, I know for a fact that we are people who are very self-possessed, who have more than enough ability to progress individually and autonomously. And you don't tend to see that in film. And, you know, diversity and inclusion,

have become buzzwords in Hollywood, thankfully. But this is it in action. A wonderful executive at Disney by the name of Tendo Naganda, who is here. Where are you? Tendo. Take a bow, my friend. Yeah, stand up, take a bow.

I point out Tendo because this is diversity and inclusion in action. He is of Ugandan parentage. There is no way, I think, that this film will be getting made if he didn't make it his passion. and he didn't walk it down the holes to get it made. And I think, you know, built into this from a diversity and inclusion point of view, it's made by Mira Naya, a woman who, yes, give it up for Mira, you know, a wonderful female director who has called Uganda her home for over 27 years.

I think that a female director directing this is why you have an 11-year-old girl as the center of the story. That's why we need female directors. That's why we need different voices telling these stories. It's because of Tendor Nogenda being at the center of getting this made, that my character isn't a white missionary, which is what it has been up until, you know, when I say a white savior care, that's how this film would have got made 10 years ago.

It would have got made today if different people had made it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are several studios that would have wanted Ryan Gosling, who's fabulous. Probably very compelling as a chess teacher. You know, another thing that really struck me about the movie was there was poverty, but that wasn't the story. It wasn't all about sadness.

It wasn't all about struggle. There were a lot of other aspects to it. And in our conversation earlier, that seems like that's much more realistic view of how it really is to live even in Cotway. Yeah, one doesn't want to deny the inherent problems that exist anywhere in a bid to redress the balance of what has gone on before.

You just want to tell the truth. And, you know, I was in Uganda over 10 years ago, and I did a film there called The Last King of Scotland. Yeah, that's a great. That's a different kind of view of Uganda. Different kind of movie. And we had a great experience doing it. And one of my lasting memories from that film is our makeup artist,

who is a lady from London, very affluent lady. We were in Uganda, and we all just couldn't get over how people who had and have so little can be so joyful. A lot of them existing on a banana or two a day. And she came home from our time in Uganda. opened her fridge, her full fridge, and had a full-on breakdown. And the reason she had this breakdown, she told me in an explicit time, she said, I looked at my fridge full of food, and I knew that in my life, I don't have an iota of the joy I saw in the faces and in the lives of people who

have nothing. And it made me completely reassess my life and what I deemed to be of value. And that, to me is why a film like this is of value. Because to be able to see joy, genius, ingenuity, family, love, grace in the midst of that is universally beautiful. I think anyone anywhere can appreciate the value of that. That's why you don't shy away from it. You just tell the truth of it. Yeah, that's amazing truth. You kind of are at a point in your career, which I think most actors, would die for, which is you've gotten to a point where you're important enough. You played Martin Luther King. You've been in great movies that you can choose a bit what you're going to do. You don't have to take the work that's offered, which is very few people achieve that level.

And you chose to make this movie, which is, you know, the entire budget for the film was only $15 million. So certainly you could have done something that was worth more money. And watching the film, the character that you played kind of made a very similar choice with his life where he could have been an engineering supervisor who was clearly a very talented guy. When you researched him, did you identify with this character more than other characters that you've played? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Robert Katenday, who is a saint. I mean, you know, one of the challenges in playing him was how to make him feel like a human being. because he is so incredible. I mean, as a human being, and I hugely admire him and what he is done and is doing.

But for me, I am very, very blessed to do what I do, but I also really appreciate how impactful cinema is culturally. And having been in films that I have seen impact culture, you know, educate people, enlighten people, bring people joy, help them re-evaluate or evaluate their lives. I have basically set myself the remit that, for me, I have to use this tool to contextualize what it is to be black on planet Earth. And that is very complex.

Yes. You know, in setting myself that remit, what I mean by that is, film culturally has, I think, marginalized what it is to be a person of color. It has marginalized the female voice as well, behind the camera, in front of the camera. So few female directors getting to operate on a scale of this, which has to change. And so few people of color and able to be the protagonists. And so being afforded the opportunities that you quite rightly say, I have been afforded, I try to take every opportunity where I'm I'm blessed with the opportunity to do a film to move the ball down the field,

as it pertains to what I deem to be the African experience, the African-American experience, the black experience. I want to champion the female experience in all of its complexity. So yes, when this project came along, it ticked all of my boxes in terms of what I want to contribute, what I want my footprint to be as an artist in terms of the work I do. from Nigeria and then London, you've played what many people consider the most important African-American

and maybe ever, but certainly in the last century. How did you learn about African-Americans? Well, I had this incredible journey. I did a series of films that really went into the American experience, but more specifically, the African-American experience. I did a film called Red Tales

about the Tuskegee Airman. I did a film called The Butler, which also looked at the African-American experience. Also very unusual that either of those movies got made. And it was a fight. It was a real fight. We didn't have a tender and again there. I'll tell you that. You know, I did a film called The Help as well. And a film called Lincoln, all of which really, you know, cover the last 150 years of what it is to be black in America. Yes, I did. Oh, dear. So, but, you know, I couldn't have predicted that would happen to my career,

but I can absolutely track it with the presidency of Barack Obama. You know, I think those films got made because this country, as it still is, reeling from the fact that we've had an African-American president for eight years. And what we're finding out quite a good one. Yes, exactly. And I think that these films got made to give us context as to how we got to this moment. And so through doing those movies,

I got this unexpected education, unexpected love, actually, for African-American history, African-Americans, because I'm British, I'm Nigerian, I wouldn't have identified as African-American, but I now have my four children. Two of them are Americans. They were born here. I just became a citizen three weeks ago.

Congratulations. So in my house, we call ourselves African-Americans. Just to lump everything together nicely. So, yeah, you know, that journey I've been on has really helped me drill down and get a sense of what I want to do, which is something that you don't really get to know as an artist all the time in terms of the kind of films I want to make.

So one of the things in the movie that there were so many nice nuances in terms of the clothing and that, you know. They were hideous, let's be honest. As much as I love Robert Ketende, what's with the shirts? But those were his authentic shirts, yeah. There was authentic shirts. They're very bright, those shirts. Love him.

Yes, yes. But one of the things that was really amazing was the snap. No, was that actually from the team? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a very real thing. Everywhere you go, you know, and that's what's so great about getting to see different places, different people. You know, I guarantee that's going to creep into schools.

That's going to become something that, you know, the amount of times I've spent teaching people how to do that. But yeah, it's a fantastic thing that they do at that I learned so much. Yeah, that definitely made you feel like you were there. Yeah. Like, you know, part of the team. Exactly. It's really amazing.

So one of your co-stars, Lapida, they say there are actresses and then there are movie stars, and she clearly jumps right off the screen and it's a movie star. And what does it like to act or have to be in a scene with such a presence that's that big? Does that make it more difficult? Does that make it easier? Oh, it's a complete joy, especially when there's such an incredible human being. I mean, she really is one of the loveliest people I have met. and she's just, she's so talented, she's so gracious.

But what blew me away about Lupita in this movie is that as you will see in some of those scenes with her, is that we now have a woman on planet Earth who can completely pass for a Ugandan corn cellar in the slums of cartway, she can pass for it. You can have the camera go by and real corn cellar, real corn cellar,

movie star, real corn cellar, real corn cellar, and buy it is just incredible. Because I don't know that we've had the combination of that talent, that beauty, that amazing hue of her skin combined in a world-renowned movie star.

And that is just amazing. And she is one of the reason the movie gets made, because when you don't have someone like that that gives a company like Disney the confidence to make the film, because at the end of the day, you want people in these movies that draw a crowd. And if you just, if you haven't had the opportunity to nurture that talent to the point whereby she is, as you say, a movie star, the truth of the matter is these films don't get made. And so her existence to me is both a miracle

and just a consistent source of warm, inner, fuzzy loveliness. And she is just, I mean, that, I don't know if you saw, I remember one day of when we were shooting, and I saw her practicing her waddle. Did you see it? Because that's not how Lupita walks, you know, normally. And I just thought, oh, that's heaven, you know. Love the Waddle.

Quite impressive. Yes. So if you were her agent, and she can make a movie like this that's so important, but she's so important, as you pointed out, in not just showing these kinds of films, but really in diversifying all of Hollywood. How many films like this would you have her make,

and then would you also want her to be in blockbusters just to show that greatness can come in that package? Or, like, how would you think about that if you were now, you know, running CAA or William Morris or wherever? It's a really good question because up until now, what has tended to happen when a black woman in particular is afforded this kind of notoriety, this kind of success, winning an Oscar, being in a hit film, is it's really difficult. Hollywood finds it very difficult to know what to do with them. But even beyond that, it's just, okay, so what do we do with them now? Do we pair them with Brad Pitt? Do we pair them with George Clooney?

Do we, you know, the Jennifer Lawrence route is not what is going to happen, unfortunately, because of this confusion as to, okay, she's got this amazing dark skin. What do we do with that? What do we do with that? What do we do with that? And the truth of the matter is, again, to talk about diversity and inclusion, if Tendo Negender doesn't exist, if he isn't walking this project down the halls beyond 12 years a slave, this is the first time we're seeing Lupita in the flesh since then.

And that bears out. That's actually shocking. It is. And that would not be the case with Jennifer Lawrence winning the Oscar. It's four or five giant. No, exactly. It's not going to be the case for Brie Larson, who's just won the Oscar. It's not going to be the case for Amy Adams.

So, you know, what I would say is that she's doing it absolutely right. She went on to Broadway and got nominated for Tony. That's how you keep the narrative going, because you have to, the best weapon, in my view, against prejudice is excellence. All my entrepreneurs hear that. If you constantly remain on the undeniable path of excellence, you literally shame people into giving you your opportunities, into making the opportunities that you create yourself. And so I think that we are more and more waking up to that.

I know that she is woken up to that. It's certainly something I try to do. But it doesn't mean it's easy. You know, she is well on her way to continuing to be a game changer, I think. Yeah, no doubt. And that was amazing what we just saw her in. So we spoke about Disney a bunch. So, you know, here's the most successful company in the world in making films,

but known for having that great profitable success by making franchises that can merchandise. And clearly, this one's not one that there's an easy sequel for. I have no idea what you're talking about. I, the doll, is on its way. Do you have interchangeable Robert Catendez shirts? We've got this soda. Yes. But so how does Disney, you know, end up embracing a film like this?

And what does that mean, do you think, going forward? Look, this hasn't happened before, is the truth of the matter. Yes. It hasn't happened before. And, you know, even when we sit there thinking of how to market, film, who's going to come and see the film. You know, what we tend to do in Hollywood is we think about comps. What is the film

like? We just don't have comps. So, that's amazing. I mean, in a world of sequels and reimagined IP and all this kind of stuff, to have something that you're literally going, I don't know that a film like

this exists. And it be made by the biggest media company in the world is truly incredible. So, you know, how this happened, I think even Disney's going, what? Did we? Thankfully, where's Chewbacca? Yeah, exactly. I mean, thankfully, they're very happy with it, but honestly, I'm sorry, I just go back to Tendor Nogenda. I mean, you know, he had great success with Cinderella

that he was a big part of getting that film made, saving Mr. Banks, which he got made. So again, excellence. Excellence bred success, which bred opportunity. And that meant that we got to go and make this movie. Mira Naira, the work that she's been doing positioned her in order to, when this came along, she was right there. Lupita and 12 years a slave eroded their excuses to not make this film. They were talking about this film just as I had done Selma. So thankfully, you know, me as an addition to it, we just literally, through excellence and the pursuit of excellence,

once it got to hear. So I honestly don't have a real answer for you as to how this happened. All I can hope is that this becomes a model for what, because I know we need it, but, you know, I just pray that it attains the level of success that means that we continue there to a road, not just Disney's, but Warner Brothers, Universal, Sony, Paramount, all of their excuses to not make movies like this. Thank you again. And everybody, maybe we can turn on the lights just so David can see everybody's smiling face. It would be nice. Because we can't see you at all. Thank you. Ah, very y'a. Veryola. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again for just a wonderful film and changing Hollywood and making all of us better. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Bless you.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.