The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #1747 Complicated Culture Shifts in Dating, Marriage, & Parenting

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

Adam and Dr. Drew welcomes Florence Anne, a childcare advocate and nanny who discusses parenting and even dating in this new millennium. They discuss a new, post Covid phenomenon affecting kids, but especially males, coined, the “friendship recession”. In addition, the data on young females with the all consuming social media reality of today, is deplorable. They also consider this new culture shift of male and female dynamics, along with the pros and cons of these realities both in dating and marriage. Florence and Dr. Drew have two surprising takes on what it’s like trying to meet someone at a bar today. Please Support Our Sponsors: Angi.com

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with Adam Carolla, Jay Leno, and a host of comedy stars and TV writers. Jay Leno and a host of comedy stars and TV writers. Recorded live at Corolla One Studios with Adam Corolla and board-certified physician and addiction medicine specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to The Adam and Dr. Drew Show. Yeah, get it on, got to get on. No choice, I got to get it on. Welcome to the show. I'm Adam Corolla. Adam and Dr. Drew Show. Yeah, get it on, got to get on. No choice, we're going to get it on. Welcome to the show. I'm Adam Kroll.

This is Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew's board-certified physician, addiction medicine specialist, coming in hot this morning. Yes. Florence Ann is our guest. She's an author. She's a child care activist, and we'll talk to her about her book and lots of things that are plaguing the youngsters today. Good to see you, Florence Ann. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm very honored.

Drew, what were you whipped up about before the show? I'm channeling my inner Adam Carolla. when you repeat things multiple times and they don't happen and they threaten the basic functioning of a show. I mean, the fundamental thing I need more than anything else. I lose it. There's a well, there's a topic. Florence can weigh in on it as well. I marvel. Now, this seems endemic.

It doesn't seem like it's an individual issue. But I marvel at how many times I tell the same people the same thing and how little they're bothered by it, which is a new revelation for me. A new revelation for me, because my greatest fear as a younger person or an employee or someone who's coming up the ladder was to be told the same thing I was already told two days earlier. That was my number one fear as a as a younger person. one fear as a as a younger person that fear doesn't exist today with younger folks and when I say younger folks I mean anyone under 40 which is which is bizarre to me I marvel at it a lot I've told people not to be late and had them be late the following day. Like, and I'd be like, at least give it a week. Just give it a week before you're late again. Like, no, next day. There's something going on.

And I don't, it's more, it's not why am I asking or sort of why are they late? The bigger question is why are they completely unfazed by the second, third, and fifth time I talked to them about the same subject? That's a new thing. And I don't know, let's all try to guess what fostered that. I think I'm the perfect person to be a case study for this because I am under 40, not by a lot. I'll be 38 shortly. But millennials do not even consider me a millennial. They think I'm an old millennial. And that's fine with me. I'm perfectly's certainly something different about that generation. I don't know if it goes back to that entitlement or it goes back to the idea that they think they know better or they just have selective listening in a very different way than that term I think was originally defined as. I don't know. But I know for me, at least. I would say most things blame screens. It's an easy go.

Yeah, that's a good, that's probably an easy way. And it has something to do with processing of screens, which is, and Adam, you and I have kind of talked around this topic, which is you tell somebody something, but because it's not fitting into their priority structure, they don't hear it with the priority with which you're offering it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I... You're the passive recipient of screen material that you might miss some of the nuance of somebody going, hey, hey, hey, hey, I need this. I need you not to be late tomorrow. That's the priority for me that you should not. And if it's not a priority for them, it doesn't it doesn't

get absorbed, doesn't absorb the same way. Right. Evidently. I mean, I always think about this office, which is four feet away from me on the other side of this wall, where I told the young employees who inhabited the office at some point they needed to clean the office. And they just never did it. And then I just said it again, and they just never did it. The office is not very large. It was about a 15-minute job, probably. And as I always say, on the clock, you know, I didn't say come here on Sunday and clean the office, just do it while you're here. And they never did it. They never did it. And then eventually I did it. And then they got angry and quit essentially. But now

these are unthinkable things. If you go into the way back machine with us and picture us as young employees they weren't bothered by the fact that i told them to do it multiple times and they didn't really didn't really have they they ended up getting angry because i shamed them because i cleaned it on a on a saturday you're an asshole well i i don't Well, I don't know what they think of me. All I'm saying is whatever this request was, was not heeded. And they weren't bothered by it. That was the whole...

That's why you keep talking about it, because that's the uncanny part for you. Right, because I could remember being young and working for somebody or something and you know they said you know bring this into work or something and if I walked in and I didn't have it and they said where's the so-and-so I was like oh shit I forgot god damn it I'll run home right now and get it. Like, I feel like an asshole. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Like, I was very animated by my mistake. It was like a lot of like, never going to happen again. You know, punch me out of the time clock. I'm going to run home and go get it. I'll come right back. Stupid. You know, whatever. I don't feel any of that anymore.

It's just like well this is this is this is what it is it's weird now i i guess some people think it's progress i guess i don't look at it as progress you ever heard that phrase dr drew and adam that people say uh people do what they want to do and they don't do what they don't want to do. So what are you going to do? And it's, it, to me, it's like, well, where's the urgency? Don't you feel like you have something to prove, or you want to show that you're responsible? You know, I, at least that's how I was raised. I mean, I was raised in, you know, an old school Italian house. I mean, you, you did as you were told, you know, I mean, you rolled your eyes and, you know,

that was a conversation you were going to have. So, I mean, the way I was raised in the community I was raised in and the type of value system my family had that translated to the rest of my life and the skill sets, I suppose that I had. Am I, am I frozen? Am I, uh, you are at least on my end. You're hearing me. All right. Well, that's what happened.

Yeah. All right. We got it. Now we'll talk to Florence Ann. So we're talking about kids. Okay. And what's your general supposition of what's going on with kids? And they're, you know, is it a good time to be a kid?

Is it a horrible? I mean, it's tons of depression and loneliness. And I just, I just saw a study that said like 40% of Brown university students label themselves as gay or lesbian or trans. And I just thought, or lesbian or trans. And I just thought, can it be 40%? And if it is, wouldn't that be a weird, just sexuality alone seems insanely confusing now for your 17. Is there a good time to be a kid? I mean, I think it's more challenging now than it ever has to be a child a child. You know, especially to bring up what Dr. Drew said before screens, screens have a lot to do with that social media has a lot to do with

that. But part of the reason, you know, I think we're in a friendship recession, as people are referring to it, as it's because people after COVID, you know, they got to retreat, they got to go into this kind of, you know, tortoise shell. And then all of a sudden, they had to come out of it again. And they had to connect with people again, and found out two things. Not only did they not really want to do it, they didn't really know how to do it again. And it's led to this recession we're in, in terms of connection and community. And I think a lot of what young adults are going through today in terms of mental health and emotional well-being is a direct result of that. And certainly social media doesn't also help

encourage, I think, teenagers especially to have sometimes a healthy image of themselves or also encourage healthy relationship building. You know, while the data on the women is just horrible and the young females, most of that is, in fact, from the screens and comparing and all that kind of stuff. But what you're talking about in terms of the skill of relating and dating and forming friendships, I'm going to bet the deficiency is more on the male side. You're absolutely right. Yeah. We don't naturally, we have to develop those skills.

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Answer a few questions and Angie can handle the rest. Nothing could be better. It's so confusing, particularly people like me that are, let's just say I'm a little challenged. Take care of just about any home project in just a few taps. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. Again, that is Angie, A-N-G-I.com. It's interesting, actually, to see even my parents, they are divorced. After 40 years being married, they've been divorced now three years. And my dad had a conversation with me recently where he said, you know, I didn't really realize, because I'd written a book about village building. He said, I was reading your book

and I was thinking to myself, gosh, I really don't know how to really do this. I don't really have a village. And I said, well, why do you think that is dad? And he was like, I don't I know, I'm not really sure. I'm like, well, you know, maybe it has to do with the fact that a lot of your relationships and friendships had to do with mom. You know, he was friends with her friend's husband most of the time and that was that's common for couples to relate right and that's a really common complaint when people are outside of the couple they lose friendships because people don't want to take sides they don't have to relate to the person as a single person anymore but there's an interesting again an

interesting point back to men is that we don't maintain a lot of friendships typically. I, uh, I, I, it's the, to me, the friendships are the greatest sort of free gift you can, you can have. Uh, I mean, I don't want to sound trite or corny, but I just mean, I, I, and maybe it's how I grew up, because I grew up with a family that didn't really communicate or talk or care or anything. So for me, it was always about friends and friendships and, you know, particularly male friends. And we would just walk at night and talk, you know, for miles and miles. I called Drew all the time.

We just talk on the phone for, for an hour. I, I went, I just got done going out to dinner with a good friend and another dinner. It's like, there's no greater joy than going to dinner with a, with a good friend. And I, I couldn't even imagine life without it. And it is, it's free. It takes some cultivation and a little back and a little forth. But I don't know why it's not emphasized a little more in our society. I think there's been way, i think the self-esteem movement has screwed up kids a lot it's it's the self-esteem movement is sort of focuses on

you yourself and how how how great you are essentially right you know how many male friends that that in particularly in adoles, young adulthood were about competition. Right. You'd engage together in competition. That was how we sort of hone friendship and navigated friendship. And, you know, when people do therapy with young males, what do they have to do? You can't sit across the table. You can't put them in a chair and face them. You have to go outside and shoot hoops or drive in a car side by side where they're looking forward, because for a young male,

face to face is threat. And they have a difficulty calming down with that. Yeah, but it does seem like obviously, statistically, women are feeling the brunt and the burden of this time we're living in in society, young women. And also, we've created a sort of impossible task for these young women. They're supposed to be sort of free sexually. They're supposed to be sort of plastic sexually. I mean, they could easily be this sex or that sex or be attracted to this. Or different gender.

Or not even be the gender you're in. You're supposed to sort of have this kind of hedonistic life that's all fun and cocktails, but you're supposed to be driven in the workforce and career-oriented. And then at some point, we gave away the sort of emphasizing the, the mother and the children and the wife and all that. We kind of tried to turn them into some sort

of superhero that feels like, like the opposite of a simple, satisfying life. I think the key to happiness is all very simple, blase, basic human stuff. Go out, chop some wood. You go out and garden. Go for a hike. Go organize your closet on a Saturday afternoon. Like very stuff that we now pay everyone to do. You know, I think just I think there's a ton of dissatisfaction for women, especially in just

grub hub. Just somebody bring me food. The the the concept, the act of you making yourself a meal and or making it for a loved one and family members, children, it's wildly satisfying. And it's satisfying for a man and I would say more satisfying for a woman. And that's down 86 percent. It's all, you know, bring it bring it to the house. it's all you know bring it bring it to the house i think going back to what you said about you know women have to fit into all these different definitions whomever it is that is giving that definition to what they think a woman should be now or you know our behavior uh personality drive ambition all of those things you know take it for it for me. You know, like I said, I'm a single, about to be 38. And, you know, dating is a heck of a time. I mean, you know, you're on

social media, or, you know, on these dating apps, and you're scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. And men just kind of have their smorgasbord of women, they have this whole platter to, to, uh, you know, kind of pick from and, you know, they don't follow through. They don't write you back. They don't follow through with the date they go through. They do this and that. And is it because we've given them too many options? Is it because, you know, they, they don't need, uh, they don't need to, uh, be, uh, engaged in that. They feel like they have time and, you know, I'll just find the next one or whatever it is. So I think, you know, being a woman in that situation, what's changed about our society where men don't feel, or we don't feel at least like they're as serious about dating or

as serious about settling down and having children. It's so much harder out there than it seems like it was. And I always joke with my mom, Adam, you know, as a fellow Italian, I always go, you know, where's the mouchad? Where's the arranged marriage? We could use something like that now, because I feel like it's so hard to do it on our own, because there has been a culture shift in dating too, which I think directly goes back to what you're talking about, how we define, you know, kind of the family relationship or the family dynamic now and the roles of the family. You know, the the nuclear family is what works best. And we've been trying to talk everyone out of it for a long time now.

it for a long time now. And, you know, it's what's best for a child, mom, dad at home together, doing the things that we all look at as boring shit that our grandparents did. You know what I mean? But that that's sort of where people are. They're happiest because they're satisfied. they're happiest because they're satisfied. And as we take men and sort of draw them toward the center to sort of become more feminine and we take women and we draw them toward the center to become more masculine, I think everyone gets incrementally more miserable. I think women, I don't think they voice it out loud, and I don't even know if they know it on a conscious level, but I do believe women want a traditional man. Most women want a man that has sort of traditional traits, like I will protect you if there's, you know,

we're walking down the street and a hoodlum comes our way. I will, you know, if there's a crash in the night, I'll get out of bed and go downstairs and do it. I will bring money home. I will protect you. I will, simple things, I can fix this house. You do not have to call the handyman. If the rain gutter gets clogged up, I will unclog it. I will do this.

I will be a protector. I will be a provider. And I will be a technician to some degree. And I think, well, who wouldn't want that? Like, I wish I had that. I wish I was gay and had some buff dude who would protect me, bring home a bunch of money. And when a piece of outdoor furniture broke, he'd just go out there and clamp it up. And I think men want women in a more traditional way. And we have now decided that that was enemy number one, that you couldn't even speak in those terms. And somehow that when a guy did traditional male roles around the house, bring home the

money, protect people, you know, change the filter for the heating and air system and skim the pool or whatever it is, that was all fine. But then if that guy asked the woman to make lasagna, that somehow he was out of bounds with that request. And I didn't sign off on any of that. It's all bullshit. Everyone can do. And by the way, if the guy wants to make lasagna and she wants to go out and skim the pool, then that's fine too. But each role, each sex needs to be doing something. And doesn't that needs to be doing something. And doesn't that need to be agreed upon though? I would say in whatever relationship you're in,

you customize that, what those gender roles are or whatever you may call it today. You know, what are the expectations of the relationship? You know, that, that hopefully is a conversation you're having when dating, you know, about, you, if you see a future together, and how you structure a family or just your partnership. Yeah. So the book. There's even another layer in here, too, as it pertains to dating. There's a lot going on there. A, we've told men that women and men are the same, exactly the same, motivated the same. And the reality is the way men are motivated, they want sex.

If a relationship happens, they're good with it. Women want a relationship. If sex happens, they're good with it. That is a corporate motivational system. It has been throughout time. time. Women that have lots of partners never measure on the happiness and satisfaction scale as high as males that have lots of partners. So there's going to be this problem in sort of the market of this all along. Now, on top of that, we've told men that if they express some of this, they're toxic, there's something wrong with them, they're bad. So a lot of young men, like you said, turtled, drew inward to their pornography, and they're just being alone.

And they do not have the skill set, many of them, to navigate dating and navigate relationships. They never had one. And for the first time in my career, I'm hearing a lot of, not a lot, some young males talk about visiting prostitutes. That is just goes now. And that's a new thing. And that it was not happening in my entire career. And now I hear about it, I'd say regularly. And that's so interesting to me just about, you know, and this is, I guess, a very, a very neutral way of saying it, but I suppose just the idea of connection, right? Dr. Drew, what does connection look like for men and women, whether that is dating, it's a sexual relationship, it's platonic, it's friendship, whatever it might be? Our motivator for why we connect with people is always going to be, I guess, personal to us.

But it is interesting to me. Well, and how. Again, the literature is very clear. Men connect. They use sexuality as how they connect intimately. That's super clear. And some people do that, too. That's for sure.

But men, again, in terms of this divide, in terms of what people are experiencing, that's what they experience. And then relationships, again, if they have no skill with it, they get to the point where that's what they want. I mean, all humans want relationship and connection, as you said, but it can take a while to get there. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we were just talking about, as you do kind of this mindless scrolling on all these dating apps, like I have to do and participate and to feel like you're actually doing something to move the needle forward. It, it, it's, it's such a mind game you feel like, because, you know, there's just so much opportunity or so many people to pick from, you know, how do you actually get that person to connect with you or to actually meet with you in person, or, you know, how do you actually get that person to connect with you or to

actually meet with you in person or, you know, not just have the revolving door of person after person and just feel like, oh, you know, I'm just going to have a good time. And when I'm ready, I'll, you know, finally decide to settle down. I don't know if the online dating hurts us or helps us truthfully at this point, because I'll tell you, I'll go out, I'll be with friends, I'll be places socially. And I don't think I've ever really had a guy come up and introduce himself to me or talk to me the way I think, you know, people thought that's how you listen. I went out, I went out with a guy. I went out. It was our friend Ami Horowitz, Adam. So I was out with Ami about a week ago. And he said he went up to a girl in a bar.

He spent time with her and then left with her. The next time they he went to that bar, they threw him out and said, you're a predator. You're preying on our customers. Get out of here. Gosh, wow. Well, that is that's definitely shocking to me. You know, I would never have guessed something like that would happen. You know, and then I guess, you know, I guess, you know, we live in a world today, right, where it's all extreme. The pendulum swings very, you know, hugely to the right, hugely to the left. We have no middle anymore. We have no moderation anymore. We have none of that, you know, it's, it's so intense either way. Um, so I think a lot of what we're peddling in terms of, um, how we treat one another, how men and women treat each

other, whatever it might be is, is now again, maybe gone too far to one side where now something like that happens. And it's so unfair. And, and of course, guys would be afraid then to approach women. We're living in a time where we're trying to convince people of sort of things that are not really mathematically possible. and it makes everyone miserable. And what I'm saying is, is we're literally trying to change the definition of man and woman and saying, you know, birthing person. And I don't know, what was it? The what was it? Jammer or American Medical Association or something was saying chest feeder the other day instead of breast. So what we're essentially doing is attempting to do is the is not really feasible.

It's it's it's we're in a time when we're saying, you know, every homeless person needs to be treated with dignity and respect. OK, not doable, not doable. And every child needs a seat at the table. Not doable. And we're striving for equity. Not doable is not not doable. And we want to save. We're going to save the planet from the Starbucks in Santa Monica, not doable. So we're putting all these things that are undoable in front of all these young people and they walk around sort of perpetually discouraged or agitated by the fact, discouraged or agitated by the fact, you know, we were going to save them from COVID by telling them to wipe down their McDonald's bags before they brought them into the house and to double

mask and keep a socially distance because your dog could get it. These are all undue. And then they all got COVID. We're asking a bunch of undoable things. do. And then they all got COVID. We're asking a bunch of undoable things. And of course, you'd be frustrated and sort of you'd have a low grade depression if that's if that was your life. Now, if you're outside and you're building a tree house with your dad, then that's very doable, very satisfying and has a beginning, a middle and an end to it. Saving the environment, fluid sexuality, COVID something, it doesn't have an end. It's just one long middle,

and that's where they're all living, and that's why they're pissed off, agitated, and not satisfied. All right, so on a happy note, and Drew, you're still frozen up over there. So I don't know. I'm glad that when we break, I'll go fix it. We'll reboot. Florence Ann, the book, Build Your Village,

A Guide to Finding Joy and Community in Every Stage of Life. It's wherever you find finer books. I see. I put the word finer in there because that's a part of my childhood. Remember that drew like at the end of the game show that go wardrobe by botany 500 or wherever you find finer gentleman's class, like they're just put finer in front of it.

I like that. That's got a nice, a nice sparkle to it. Florenceann.com is her website as well. And until next time, this is Dan Krola for Florence Ann and Dr. Drew saying, Mahalo. Stream the biggest blockbusters this summer with Popcorn Summer Movies on Pluto TV. Experience nonstop action with the first four popcorn summer movies on Pluto TV. Experience nonstop action with the first four Mission Impossible movies and Top Gun. Laugh out loud to comedies like Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Bergen, and The Backup Plan. With thousands of free movies, Pluto TV has something for everyone. Available on live TV and on demand. Download Pluto TV on

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