The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #1752 The Paradox of Marriage & Porn

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Adam and Dr Drew get serious talking with award winning porn star, Maitland Ward again, covering how marriage and relationships work while being so prominent in the adult entertainment industry. Dr. Drew leaves no stones unturned, asking about therapy, balancing relationships, male and female fantasies vs reality, and more. Maitland shares she’s been married for an impressive 17 years, and talks about her suppressed sexuality in her early years. Adam and Dr. Drew talks about patriarchal versions of porn in contrast to the influence a woman like Maitland can exert today. Please Support Our Sponsors: Angi.com

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and board-certified physician and addiction medicine specialist, Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to The Adam and Dr. Drew Show. Yeah, get it on. Got to get on the show. Get it on. Dr. Drew's board for addiction medicine specialist. Maitland Ward back on the show. Actress, adult film star, Boy Meets World,

a couple of seasons, soap operas and the like, then transitioned. Be careful, word into an adult film actress that's right rated x how porn liberated me from hollywood now maitland's in a relationship uh married i'm curious how this affects relationships. And not someone who's in the industry, right? No, not at all. No. Not at all. No, not even the acting industry or like Hollywood entertainment. He's business.

Like, yeah. So real estate and business. I'd like to dial back, Adam, if you don't mind, and just ask, before you got married, you had married a while, right? And your relationship is... Like 17 years. Yeah. So you had a successful, sustained, intimate, long-term marriage. Yeah. Before that, how were your relationships? Did you have any issues?

No, I not, that was actually such, it's been such a long-term relationship. When I was very young, I was so like timid about sex in my body and everything. And I, you know, I, any feelings that I had that I just felt like I had to suppress them for so long. Was there a religious thing or something? A little bit. Yeah. But not so much with my parents. My grandmother was very religious.

It was more about living up to the standard of being a very good girl. And I was a very good girl. Where did you grow up? What part of the country? In Long Beach, California. Oh. And my parents are still married to this day. I lived pretty much of, you know, a normal childhood. I, it was a happy childhood. I just wanted to be like good in everybody's eyes and I wanted to get good grades and I wanted to be very, you know, studious and anything that, you know, I felt was outside of that box or wrong. And a lot of it I did

internalizing and especially from any religious background with my grandmother or anything. I conjured this up for myself a lot too, to be the good girl. And then I started getting roles. At about 16, I auditioned for the Bold and the Beautiful, the soap opera that I got on and quickly I was swept up into Hollywood, but it was also as a good girl image. So I had Hollywood also saying, you have to live up to this image. You have to be this kind of girl next door. You have, you cannot go out of the box at all. So I was always trying to fit into other people's boxes. And even though, you know, I, any of my feelings deep down, I was like, no, I need to be what everyone else needs me to be. And so

that was the beginning of a long journey having sex with other people for a living. I always kind of would say, well, they're either nuts or they're the most evolved person on the planet. But the safe money is nuts. Or there's a sort of a corollary to nuts, which is reserving the right to fuck around themselves then. Oh, OK. Men do that. Men do that. But all right.

But what I'm saying is, is that's kind of a yardstick. I would have measured it from a few years ago. The yardstick's a little different now because of what we've talked about in previous episodes about the sort of business the only fans of you know end of it and there's a financial part if your partner's out earning a real good living um you know i think it's it's easier to kind of look the other way you know follow the money um how much of this is financial do you think it didn't start out as financial at all i didn't even think that i was going to make money from this really when i started off doing like content just for myself

or for my fans who mainly it started because i was getting kicked off of instagram and snapchat and stuff for you, pictures that could be seen as lewd. I wasn't putting up nude pictures. It was just like they were, you know, and they were really crazy in those days. But what I'm what I'm asking is, is if your husband said, you know, hypothetically, let's just say you make a million dollars a year doing all this. If you said the husband magic wand you can have your million but Maitland's being a housewife or she's gonna she's gonna work at the real estate office she's not no I couldn't do it you couldn't I'm asking him no it's it's to the husband he's

got the magic wand you don't think so no it was, we were never like what people would think. We were never like swingers or never, I never, you know, cheated outside of my marriage. It was always something, except for, well, I had some girls that I, you know, explored with and he was fine with that. And we had like, of course, but over the long years. So we hadn't like done any of that, but I was coming into my own sexually. I was like a lot of things that had been repressed, a lot of things that I needed to experience

and I just needed to do. Does he watch your work? I think he likes the girl scenes. He does like to watch that. You're saying you had some stuff you wanted to work through is that because you had not dated and you know had sex with multiple partners younger i mean i i really have a theory that there's an age when you're supposed to do that and if you don't sure you're gonna you're something's gonna come out later. A lot of that, like any attraction that I had towards women and that that was definitely suppressed. So I was definitely exploring that part of it a lot.

So, yeah, when I was younger, I was not able to express myself in the way. I don't know if I had wished at the time but i probably needed to in order to like live in my truth going back to your relationships prior to your husband did you have sustained relationships then and were they sexual uh yes but not like i wouldn't say that i was completely honest and forthright in my relationships because i tried to live up to this ideal. So shut down. Did you have therapy? Yes. I mean, I've had therapy, yeah. So did that bring you to that?

Yeah, a little bit. That brings me out of myself. Okay. And so I'm just following the line here. And so you're moving along. One of the things that happens in therapy sometimes is that if it's just one partner having therapy, that happens in therapy sometimes is that if it's just one partner having therapy, he or she moves and grows so much, the relationship, like you move away from your partner. Partnerships are these emotionally fitted things. And when someone's emotional landscape changes, it can

really change their relationship. So my question is, how did he keep up with you? You know what? Actually, we've had couples therapy before just to maintain like a healthy relationship and everything. Did he also have therapy or just the couples thing with you? Yeah, he has before. I mean, yeah. But we didn't have like intense like therapy. But I mean, from time to time, we did. Who earns more, you or he?

I do. I do now. Yes. Interesting. And I know. And if he wanted to, I don't know, whatever, explore his sexuality, whatever that would have meant, what would you do with that now? You know what? I probably would have had a little more problems than he did.

If it was part of him that he really needed to do, I would have supported it. If it's somebody just saying, I want to cheat and do this. That was not what I was trying to do, like to get away with something or to, you know, try to damage the relationship in any way. It was more me just saying,

Hey, I want to like, try all of these things. I want to experience these sexual things. I love this exhibitionist style of it, thing of it. Um, and porn is someplace where I can really in a, in a controlled safe environment with professionals who are not going to, you know, get emotionally attached and, and get crazy or, or do anything like that. They're, they know what the job is and how we do it.

Um, I can just be, explore myself. And it kind of like, it's like acting roles too, where I, as a young girl, I really liked acting and doing plays and being different characters because I could, you know, experience a part of myself that I wouldn't necessarily experience in day-to-day life and I could express that and I could you know just just be part of that for myself that um I might not get to do in everyday life and I feel sexually that's true too has it significantly changed your physical relationship with your husband no you know it's a different thing it's like when you're in a marriage or in a long-term relationship it's much it's an intimate thing.

That is weird to me. I'm sorry. I don't mean weird in the sense of odd. It's not. It's confusing to me because I would think – Adam, do you react that way too? I would think if you expanded your repertoire, then that repertoire would sort of come in with your husband, no? Well, I mean, yeah. I do have a few tricks that I, you know, bring in and spice things up. But I would say the sex that I do on screen is much more elaborate and theatrical and stuff like things that I wanted to experience,

like gang bangs, or like any sort of BDSM stuff, or like, I wouldn't really be able to do that in my own marital bedroom. And that's fine. I don't need that really there. I just want to be able to do that in my own marital bedroom and that's fine. I don't need that really there. I just want to be able to, you know, express myself and experience myself in those ways. And so, yeah, I definitely bring stuff to the bedroom, but, um, I, it's, it's separate. I think people don't understand that you can really separate that. And I know a lot of married couples or couples that have been together for a long time in porn, a lot of them are both in the industry together, but they have long-term relationships and families and children and stuff. So, um, I definitely think I I've always, I'm good at like separating that part of my life. And then I think people think that I do a lot more scenes a year

than I actually do. Like people are like, do you do somebody asked me, do you do two a day? Do you do all of them? No, I do like 10 a year. So it's not, it's more of a special event day when I'm doing this stuff. Do you, um, would you describe your husband as odd or different in any other way than what we've been talking about. You know what? If you would see him, he is so straight-laced. You would think that, no, he's not. He doesn't even, like, exude any of that kind of stuff that you would expect

from, like, a porn husband or anything. No, I don't mean, you know, I don't mean, you know, wears an ascot or has his shirt unbuttoned to his navel or anything and i got more bobby hollander clips to share with you no i i don't mean that look i have been described as odd or weird or something emotionally people do that to me all the time it's always weird you know the number one answer they go you know you're odd or weird or something and i go i don't think of myself as that way and they go oh come on which is always like it's usually women trying to get me to kill myself but but i'm like no i i i experience myself as like one of the most normal people on the planet

but on a planet that's inhabited with so many fucking other oddballs, then yes, I would appear to be odd living in a group of crazy people. Okay. That's how I, but of course that's me describing it. Yes. Yes. Conveniently. Yes.

But would we describe, and I don't mean how he dresses or what he looks like or something like that. I just mean socially is idiosyncratic, you know, religious. Does he have things that would be different? No. And I honestly believe I mean, everybody has things that are different. But honestly, he's so middle of the line and so many things that you would be surprised that we do have this relationship where i am a porn star and i think honestly seeing us as a couple in a real life you would be surprised too it would yeah well you don't come across that way either so maybe it's a two-way street uh i need i need bobby hollander Bobby Hollander later when he's hanging

with Shauna Grant. Who's Shauna Grant? I don't know who Shauna Grant is. I think he mentioned her in the thing. Shauna Grant is the young starlet who Bobby is touting. I see. Okay.

The reason you'd need to whip five on yourself, Drew. Whip five? Are you not paying attention to any of this that's going on? Not back then, I guess. No, I just showed you the tape on the other show. I did not make note of all the names. Whip five on yourself is because of how lovely Shauna Grant is. I see.

Now, Shauna. You know, one thing I was going to say, one thing my husband does enjoy of me as a porn star is seeing me in my wild side and embracing that. I know that does excite him. That, you know, kind of that compersion kind of thing where you're watching, you know, the person that you're attracted to be so fully sexual and so exuberant let me ask this one last question but you said you 10 films a year how many times are you doing bringing men into the only fans thing i actually don't do a ton of content for like that for my only fans

every so often it's usually the people that i know like the guys who i did in the beginning like they're the guys that i worked with on my original content it was to the guys who I did in the beginning, like they're the guys that I worked with on my original content. It was to the guys who I said who had been in the porn industry for 10 years. I worked solely with them for like the whole time, like back and forth. So, uh, um, so yeah, I would think that, you know, I, you know, I do different things. I, a lot of my only fan stuff that I do while I do have videos with the, you know, the guys and, and a lot of girls, um, is solo stuff. I do while I do have videos with the, you know, the guys and a lot of girls, um, is solo stuff. I do, I sell like custom videos that people want to have, like sort of like porn versions of cameos, like a lot of that kind of stuff. I would reckon, although I don't know,

because I have a lot of thoughts that other people don't have. Because you're odd. Because I'm odd. But would you reckon that most men would say, I would enjoy watching a tape, a film of my significant other with another man, but not for it to be publicly consumed or even really exist. You know what I'm saying?

No. What if you would say to most dudes. Like a pretend? Like almost it didn't happen, but you get to see it anyway. Yes. We're in a fantasy world. Sort of hypothetical world. Yes. Would most men like to see a film of their woman being ravished by a man? But obviously, you don't want it on the internet, and you don't even want the experience to have happened. Yeah.

But if I had a magic wand and we could remove those two elements, then yes, this would be exciting to watch. Yes. I would say most men would do it. When you add the actually having had happened and then most men are out. Your magic wand absence. Well, maybe if you said a film somehow was captured. Has emerged. When they were younger with their first

boyfriend or whatever it is. I think most guys would go. Yeah. Now your man has just sort of taken that to an extreme level, but I think he's on the same page as a lot of guys. All right. We need to take a break. We have a Bobby Hollander with the Shauna Grant.

I can tell you what happened to her, too, if you're interested. It'll be a cautionary tale for Maitland. All right. We'll take a quick break. Be right back after this. Homeowners, you know how much work it takes to maintain that home, whether it's everyday maintenance or repairs or just taking on a dream project. In addition to your home, it can be hard to even know where to start. All you need is Angie, your home for everything home. Find a skilled local pro who will deliver quality and expertise. Over 20 years of home service experience.

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We're back, Drew. Not really paying attention this time, would you please? I can't wait. Bobby Hollander is back. So warm and fuzzy to watch Bobby Hollander. Now, would you like to know Shauna Grant's fate before or after this? What happened to her in life? Yes.

Now in the movie, The Personal Attachment. That's what I'd like to know. That's what I'm wondering. I don't know if you mean like immediately following this video, we're going to see something crazy. No. Your life. Tell me.

No, I don't know what happened. Well, do you want to hear? Maybe we should watch Robbie first. Let's watch Robbie. Sorry, Maitland. He's dead, though. Yes. Thank goodness.

But this tape is designed to make you want to do it. It's directed to you. We hope you blow your nuts off. It's the same video. Because it was made that way. And before I blast off my mouth and go any further, let me introduce you to one of the stars in the business, Miss Shauna Grant.

Abuser. Hi, Emma. How hi how you doing thanks for the intro bobby told me that told you that you can write to me and i would love it if you wrote to me i'll i will send you a picture and i will autograph it the address i would like you to send your name and address to is kincade k-i-n-c-a-i-d-1-8-6-5-3 ventura boulevard suite of course one parisiana california and the zip code is 91356 what the valley where i send you a black and white photograph but i would like to hear your comments on the video then maybe we can come back and see you again. But before we go any further, Sean is going to make sure that you see this film crispy and crunchy. Crispy and crunchy?

How's that mean? Take off your shoes. Maybe they should unzip the pants. Drop your pantyhose, ladies. Because Sean's going to clean off your TV screen. He's going to dust it off. So don't get up for a minute. If you have to pee, if you have to eat, shut the tape right now.

And then put it back on. Because this is a tape you see from beginning to end. We know a lot of people out there never get to the end. But shit, you'll be watching it once, twice, three times. You're going to love it. It's hot. It's a stroker. Now let Shauna dust off your TV screen so you don't miss it.

Pushed him out of the way. Crispy and crunchy. I know. He really is one of the characters in The Deuce. Did you watch The Deuce? I think I saw parts of it. They did a great job with that. Yeah.

Well, you know, it didn't take much exaggeration to capture these guys through yeah at all i know they're almost like cartoon characters shauna grant i believe killed herself two years after they shot this maybe i want to kill myself just watching a year and a half uh after they oh that's awful yeah i know yeah and and there was a lot, and like I said, I was dealing with that stuff a lot. I worked in a psychiatric hospital for many, many years and there was a lot of addiction, there was a lot of bipolar disorder, there was a lot of trauma,

a lot of personality disorders all over the place. Just everybody. Their real last name was Applegate. Yeah. Came here you know, drugs. You know, the whole cautionary tale so as we alluded to in a previous episode with maitland that used to be the business hey if you want to interpret it through the patriarchy they were being exploited by the patriarchy you know yes yes and now you've uh wrestled back control over uh yeah

i think it's just also we're directly in touch with the fans and like you were saying they're very intimately connected with us and and so involved but it is that fan base that even in hollywood and how i found that to be like the, you'd have to please the Hollywood system, same as you would have to please the old porn system. But now you can reach out directly to your fans and sell your content and build your brand. And it just gives you so much more power in that. And that's how it liberated me.

In an interesting way, it's not different than what we're doing right now. It's all the same model, which is you have access of IP to IP through electronic media. You produce good content. You have good talent. You get an audience. And then you own it. Well, something that I was fond of saying, and I was just thinking about it the other day, but the model.

So the model used to be you'd be on Dukes of Hazzard and you'd get 42 million Americans watching every Friday night at nine o'clock or whatever. And then you'd drop a country out because you were the two Duke boys two duke boys from the dukes of hazard and you had 40 million people in this country watching you and and knew you but they weren't really fans they were kind of passive fans you know and um now it's broken off into this world where you know everyone knows who kamala Harris is, but she doesn't have fans.

And they're like, man, she's an idiot. I like her. I tolerate her. She's just she's that people know who Tucker Carlson is. And he has fans. Right. And so he has this group. And it's not 10 percent of America.

It's not it. It may not be one percent of America. You just need a percentage of one percent of people who go, I will buy your book. I will sign up for Cameo Only fans. I'll listen to your podcast. I'll go out and buy a ticket. If you're coming to a town, you're coming to a town you're coming to a club or theater in my town i'll purchase a ticket and i said at the very beginning of podcasting very early on like i remember where i was i went to new york to talk to some like ad people who were

like dubious about ads or whatever and i remember a car ride to new York. I said, you would be worth, if you could spend $1 million and get 100,000 fans, it'd be the best $1 million you ever spent, right? Because it's no longer Duke's a hazard getting a 40 share. Well, you know who articulated this to me in the clearest way? In radio, remember they used to have the P1, P2, P3 listeners? lyrist way in radio. Remember they used to have the P1, P2, P3 listeners. So in radio they'd have, they'd have Pat, you know, people that would pass through people that would sort of listen on semi regular way and then P1 the fans.

And Norm Pettis said to me, he goes, podcasting is your P1 fans. Right. And he was right. Yeah. It's a perfect way of articulating it. Yeah. And we used to talk about big numbers, but it's sort of, you know, it's funny. When I was a kid, every kid had this fantasy of like, especially me, because I was poor. You know, I was like, what if everyone in America just gave me $1? You know, everyone in America is $1 and then I'd be rich. And, you know, and I was a stupid fantasy. I used to have, but, um, and then you came to podcasting.

Yeah. But it's really now it's like, no, we need 10,000 people to give a hundred dollars in the form of books or subscriptions or GoFundMe or whatever. We're taking this smaller group. And by the way, your group's not my group and my group's not his group and Tucker Carlson's group's not their group over there. And everything's just sort of broken off into their own little, little group. And that's kind of the new economy.

That's like the new world order. And it's bizarre. There's a lot of people hanging around. I was talking to Jamie Liso about that, you know, Rob Schneider's friend that does Gut Felt all the time. He goes, this show, he goes, God damn it, I can sell out theaters all over the country because there are fans from this show. Oh, right. Yeah., God damn it. I can sell out theaters all over the country because there are fans from this show. Oh, right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. And it's new. And it's sort of evolving and moving and shape-shifting. And everyone's trying to grab it. But it's like an eel. You know what I mean?

And it just keeps moving forward. And we're all sort of chasing behind it. But it's really interesting in that there is, when we grew up, and we're older than you, but even in your day, you know, people say, what do you want to do for a living? And my offerings ended with the word man. Do you want to do for a living and my my offerings ended with the word man you want to be a garbage man you want to be a postman you know it had to have a man at the end or there was like construction firemen postman you know yeah these were just the jobs the jobs you'd see in the children's books you know what i mean like oh it's our construction guy and then it's the it's the traffic cop you know these are all just god the guy drives the truck you know the job yeah you can't say to a kid today what are you crazy you can't be you know there is no rule it's a big change it's a big change anymore i still wonder how back to what you're doing maitland i

i just i'm guessing that way more your fans are more obsessed with you than you know i'm just you know what that's interesting um for a long time when i was just doing social media and stuff and i was putting out like my photos like sexy cosplay photos and just doing like things that i wanted to do. Like I had been told for so many years, no, you can't do those kind of things because that's not who you are. But I know how men are. Men get, they get once, if you're in their zone, they can't get you out.

You know what I mean? You know, men get obsessed really easily, but go ahead, finish your thought. I'm sorry. No, no, no. I was just saying, I, I didn't know how big of an audience was there who would buy content. And like you were saying, getting, you know, a of an audience was there who would buy content and like he was saying getting you know a certain percentage of people like my fans are very fervent and they come they'll you know pay for my stuff and they'll support me so so uh in such a big way and I think

that's so true about digging that like one percent of fans that are just really in your corner and on your on your team um i honestly have not dealt with that many like obsessive sleazy fans i don't know that's that's the thing they can be obsessive and still be good people and be respectful yeah absolutely absolutely yeah absolutely but i mean like the ones that are not good yeah yeah um that's good yeah and i don't know if it's because i am a little bit removed in the way. I feel like I'm always like a go-between between porn and mainstream. And I always hate saying that because it's all mainstream because everybody watches porn. And I think it's becoming more and more so that performers can go back and forth.

But I always feel like people will be more comfortable asking me questions about porn that they're interested in or there are talk to me about it when they're scared of the taboo porn star that they can't, you know, get near, but I'm more of a comfortable place to be a bridge. And in that way, I think people who are my fans may have watched me on Boy Meets World or in any of the projects that I've done. And they, I don't know they feel like a certain amount of like it's not just some girl they see on some gonzo steen they they uh

they have a person there's a person yeah it's a person and i think that's important and i think that that's really what i want to get across that there are a lot of people that need to be heard as people not as perfect or not as just all damaged, just as a person with a story. My wife said 10 years ago, she goes, eh, a few years, everybody at the PTA meeting is going to have their own, but she said porn, but I think now she'd say OnlyFans. Yeah. Yeah.

These are interesting times we're living in. And the reason they're interesting is all times in this nation's and world's history there's always an evolution you know Wyatt Earp was shooting up the okay corral and then he died in 1929 they had a tv set invented and world war ii was done I'm sorry, one had been done. Hitler was rising in Germany. And there were airplanes. Yeah. He grew up on dirt streets with a six-shooter strapped to his leg

and made it to the point where there was commercial air travel. The point you're making is that we don't have a good perspective on that. Actually, I go down TikTok rabbit holes on this very point all the time, which is you don't appreciate the span of a generation and a life. But my point is that took Wyatt Earp, it took him 82 years to get to an airplane. Yes. We're doing this in 10 minutes, and that's the thing we have to wrestle with. we're doing this in 10 minutes.

And that's the thing we have to wrestle with. Maitland, I will give you a plug. Rated X, how porn liberated me from Hollywood. I will also say that you can go to adamcrowler.com because I've got live shows in Vegas and Appleton, Wisconsin, Honolulu, Louisville, all over the place. Drew, what do you got? Drdrew.com. Get After Dark there on the Dr. Drew podcast.

And, again, check out that drdrew.tv. the place drew what do you got dr.com get after dark there on the dr. drew podcast and again check out that dr. drew.tv for uh you'll get a blast when we do the streaming show live on multiple platforms we're pretty much everywhere and um there's a comedy fantasy camp you guys can check out as well which is kind of interesting leno be there lots of comedians you know comedy fantasy camp.com is where you go. And until next time, this is Adam Carle from Maitland Ward and Dr. Drew saying Mahalo.

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