The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #1775 Theology, Ideology & Community

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

Dr. Drew is joined by Mark Geragos this week, for some philosophical and theological ideas on life, philosophers, & and what assists in wellness and happiness. Dr. Drew connects various factors that lead to contentment starting with; a faith in something bigger than ourselves, no matter what that may be, along with community connection, which also leads to deeper life purpose as well as people practicing the golden rule. Mark ties this into how he tries to connect with juries in the courtroom. Please support our sponsors: Simplisafe.com/ADAM2 Enteraskincare.com/?rfsn=7630437.14cd90

This is Below Deck's Captain Lee. Listen to my new podcast, Salty with Captain Lee. Um, don't you mean our podcast? Uh, yeah, I guess I do. Anyhow, listen to Salty with Captain Lee, co-hosted by my assistant, Sam. And we will be talking about the latest pop culture news and all the gossip every week. So does this mean we have to talk by ourselves, about ourselves, or can at least have some guests on? I don't know, I find myself pretty interesting. But yeah, we can have some guests on.

Some of our reality TV friends and some stars. Works for me. Listen to Salty now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Recorded live at Corolla One Studios with Mark Garagos and board-certified physician and addiction medicine specialist, Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to The Mark and Dr. Drew Show. Get it on. Got to get it on.

No choice but to get it on. Mandate. Get it on. Mark Garagos is an attorney. I'm his physician, and Adam is off somewhere, God only knows. But that intro is my favorite podcast intro of all time that Emmy does. It's hard to believe how funny I get and you get when we hear that. Yes, Every time. If you and I end up doing a podcast regularly, we need an Emmy to do the intro or something.

Exactly. It's too good. And Emmy, you said Emmy's having a baby, his first? Emmy had a baby, yeah. And, you know, that's an interesting story. As he was leaving, Emmy's a very responsible, capable young man. as he was leaving, Emmy's a very responsible, capable young man. And as he's leaving, he goes, you know, I'm having a baby probably the next time you do the show, which is now, and I'm going to be taking two weeks off.

And I said, Emmy, two weeks off for paternity, Adam Carolla will never forget that. He will never let you forget. He will never let you live that down. Well, which, by the way, that was already going through my brain, which is I took, I think, on Tenny I took two hours off, and I never heard the end of it. And Jake, I don't know that I took any time off. Well, never heard the end of it from Paulette, right?

Correct. Okay. So, so me too, I actually was taking phone calls just outside the operating room before she went at us. And I did rounds that morning. I remember being told that. You were at Huntington, right? We, she, they were born in Huntington. So I did rounds that morning and took calls. And then we went into the operating room and that was that. And my friend was the anesthesiologist. I'll never forget this. And he goes, he goes, leans forward,

he goes, what does that feel like? As three babies came out, I'm numb. I can't feel anything. But here's the comedy. So I bring that up to Emmy. I'm literally in the parking lot as I'm leaving. And I go, I go, Emmy, you know, Adam's going to bust your balls for the rest of your

life. And he goes, well, I actually have a choice. My wife busting my balls or Adam busting my balls. So I've elected to choose Mr. Carolla and Mr. Garagos chose Paulette. I chose Susan and we both get our balls busted 30 years later. 30 years later. 30 freaking years later. Exactly. 30 years later. 30 freaking years later, and it's still a vivid memory, and they've never forgotten. You know what, though? I got to say my attitude on that has shifted a little bit because they used to be a little defensive about it.

I'm like, look, I had responsibility. I was working my ass off, blah, blah, blah. And now I think to myself, how the fuck did she put up with that? I don't know how she put up with me through all that, the 20 years of that. I've evolved and I wished I had the argument or the observation now, I mean then, that I have now, which is, you know, being in the room, the delivery room, seeing the kids come out, I know for the father-child bonding, it's wonderful, but it takes all the romance out of the relationship. You don't want to be there. It's not the same, right? Blah, blah, blah.

That's what I would – if I had known then what I know now is what I would have said. Well, and so to your point, for me it's a nothing, right, because I'm used to C-sections and things. I've seen a million of them. But that has been Adam's point from as long as I've known him. And I'm going to use a name of an actor that no one under our age is going to know, but he's always said, I want to be like Fred McMurray

out in the waiting room smoking a cigar with my buddies. And the doctor comes out and goes, it's a boy! And that's it. You come in and it's all wrapped up in a cloth. In a blanket. Appropriate color, although you can't say appropriate color. Oh my god, that's

so funny. Oh god. And for those who don't know,red mcmurray was my three sons so and you know i did a deep dive you know you know with the internet and stuff stuff gets thrown at me and there was a sort of a did you know kind of thing came my way on facebook and so i followed it downstream and he had a long illustrative movie career like well i think it was even in silent films, if I remember right. I think you're right. You know who else I was thinking about the same thing?

Because somebody was talking about him. It might have been Joe Petsche. Was the actor, also a Fred, I think, who played Herman Munster, but also played the judge in My Cousin Vinny. Fred Gwynn. Fred Gwynn. Yep. Fred Gwynn. And if youn. Yep, Fred Gwynn. And if you look, I don't know why we're going down this path,

but here we go. If you look at it. Because it's what we do. It's us. And by the way, fuck Adam. No, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. Thank you, Adam, for letting us have this opportunity because we enjoy it every time.

Exactly. Kidding. But if you look at Herman Munster and it was – was it Rob Zombie tried to recreate it? Was he playing Herman Munster in the latest – you realize how great the acting was that allowed him to create Herman Munster. And same with Carolyn Jones who was the wife if I remember right. No, or was it – no, no, no, the other one was, um, I can't remember her name, but I, to your point, his portrayal of the judge in my cousin Vinnie was one of the greatest acting performers. People thought about Marissa Tomei and she was spectacular. Um, and unfortunately for her I think to some degree it typecast her

for the rest of her career or people were throwing bric-a-brac at her over that role and I think she won one of the academy awards for that that's what I recall and and I think she played uh Pete Davidson's mother in his uh streaming film about his life. And again, it was exceptional. She was amazing. I bought it completely. You know what I watched the other night, speaking of that, did you watch the – Hang on.

Adam Carolla is calling me. So let's put him on. Really? Mr. Carolla. I'm talking to Mr. Garagos here on the Adam and Dr. Drew show. Do you want to say hi to him? Hi. You guys start already?

Oh, yeah. Hold on. Let me put you on speaker. Of course we start already. Hang on a second. All right. So I don't think you can hear Mark, but he can hear you. You want to say hi?

Hi. Mark and I say hi to Mark all the time. He doesn't need to hear it again. I just thanked you for giving us this opportunity to hang out, Mark and I, because we love this every time. And we get into it. Literally, you want to talk about rabbit holes that you and I, Adam, go down. Mark and I have already discussed Fred Gwynn's acting career, Fred McMurray's acting career, Marissa Tomei's acting career. We are, we are, I don't know what's wrong with us

well I watched an entire Love Boat last night so you know next time I see you we're going to have plenty of ammunition am I right that they've expanded the sort of library of Love Boat and it's gotten a little more

interesting I don't know You've expanded the sort of library of Love Boat, and it's gotten a little more interesting? I don't know. I mean, I saw one that I hadn't seen before last night about Bob Urich and his wife adopting a baby from a Mexican orphanage, which was not in my Love Boat canon. But what were you guys talking about before I interrupted you? Oh, we were talking about Emmy being out for his paternity leave and how you'd be busting his balls for the rest of his life, which I brought up to him. And he said, well, I have a choice. Either my wife busts my balls or Adam busts my balls. So I'll accept Adam's ball busting the rest of his life, which I brought up to him. And he said, well, I have a choice. Either my wife busts my balls or Adam busts my balls.

So I'll accept Adam's ball busting the rest of my life. And then we went on a long journey about how you wanted to be like Fred McMurray out in the waiting room smoking a cigar. And that's where it all started. Yeah. Well, you know, on the legal front for Mark, there was a case out of Australia where the guy sued the hospital for six hundred and some odd million dollars because he was forced, he says, to be in the O.R. witnessing something he didn't want to witness. And it ruined him for his wife, which, but Adam, you obviously listened to this.

So hold on. So I don't know how I'm going to do this. Is there a way to? No, that's fine. I'm going in to do a show. I just want to say hi and thank you guys for holding down the ship. Of course. Is it funny you should ask?

Is that what you're doing? Yeah, yeah. I'm just sitting in L.A. traffic. I actually look for you on that show. It's a good show. Yeah, it's a well-done show. What can I say? You do six in a day. Yeah, I remember those days. I want to talk about gang taping.

Yeah, so to speak. I'm going to get on my love boat viewing tonight, perhaps, and catch up with you. Bob Urich, what was his thing? Bob Urich was Spencer for hire. He was SWAT. He was Vegas. Vegas. And as I did my Google dive into him last night, holds the record for most TV shows.

He starred in 15 TV shows. Wow. Died at 55. Ooh, from what? Do we know? Like a rare-ish cancer. Duh. Interesting.

Yeah. All right, my friend. Talk to you later. Synovial. Have a good day. What was it, Ben? Synovial sarcoma? Okay, so it's like synovium

is the lining of joints. Joints all have synovial linings. And the synovium can become, any cell can become cancerous. That's a wild one. Usually, you know, if you're going to get a joint cancer, it's like osteosarcoma or something like that or a neuroblast or something. But I've never even seen a synovial sarcoma or something like that or a neuroblast or something but i've never

even seen a synovial sarcoma it's odd so poor guy so odd but you know the i remember i think i've talked to you about this i remember maybe 15 16 years ago i had a trial with a, I was representing a charitable organization and the guy who ran it is off the charts, genius, medical genius. I could give you his history, but it's not really relevant. Anyway, he and I would talk about, he had formed these incredible databases and we would be able to query the database to get information. And one of the reasons he put this trial because you could. Well, you could, but you could eliminate through the queries of the database. So this is a big data thing. This is the future.

Was he at Sloan Kettering? No, he was at Stanford. Oh, yeah. Originally. And then UCSF. And he had this idea, you know, 20 some odd years. Oh no, that that's zooming forward. That's the, that's where we're coming to very quickly. It's an incredible thing as I watch it over the years since then, cause I was blown away back

then. I could query that was back when I was smoking cigars and i could ask the question you know uh what kind of ischemic risk do you have if you smoke five cigars a day versus three cigars a day and you could just see kinds of various statistics not going to give you a hundred percent answer but nothing in life does and boy i was reading something just this past week. That's exactly where the AI and the big data are intersecting for medicine. Yes. And you're going to be able to ask questions like you're going to be able to input Mark Garagos' data and go, what is Mark Garagos' risk for smoking three cigars a day, four cigars a day, five cigars a day, and get something meaningful back. Also, I was just talking to a friend of mine this morning who's a finance guy, and he was on some general electric medical financial call. And he was like, oh, my God, they've got these new MR machines that are 100 times more powerful

using AI and big data at looking at tiny structures. And I go, yeah, that's it. I'm with the Prostate Cancer Foundation, and we're looking at big data on all sorts of fronts. Things like how does cancer figure out – like one of the things we do is – the future, I think, is this PSMA scan. PSMA is a molecule that shows up on the surface of only prostate cancer.

And you can tag that molecule, that protein, and image it. So you can see a single cell potentially of prostate cancer if it gets out of the prostate. You can find it and radiate it. And you can also then get some radioactive product like radium and tag the cell and get it to take it up and kill the cell. The problem is that cancer is so fucking smart, it can figure out how to downregulate the PSMA expression

so it doesn't pawn the radio. But there are big data questions about, you know, how does it do that? What are the genetic elements that are used to, you know, how does the genome regulate that? And that requires massive data. I want to do something. I'm going to take a break. I'm going to get into a totally other topic,

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And I want to talk about a podcast I was listening to. I listen to Lex Friedman's podcast a lot of the time. And this guy on the present podcast I'm watching is Greg. By the way, did I just discover him within the last 18 months or was – is it me or has he all of a sudden kind of exploded in the last 18 months? He got into the Joe Rogan world and that's what launched him up. And then he was also regularly engaged with Michaelael malice a famous anarchist who was really interesting guy and and that between the three of them they it's the austin sort of mafia that's going on right now right and uh and i'm kind of a part of that you know i go out there and do i know you are you take you take your little austin sojourns every six weeks and uh

and it and so i i get to i go to the stand up there and i interview all these guys and stuff so i'm sort of part of that whole thing but lex friedman he he fascinates me and also i've interviewed michael malice a few times and i really admire him and he calls he always calls like freedom a robot because he has kind of a asbergian kind of quality i don't know if he has it or not, but he has that quality. And so Michael's always giving a shit about it. But anyway, he's a great interviewer, smart dude. And he interviewed – right now he's got an interview with Greg Lukianoff.

Do you know who that is? No. Who is that? He's a civil rights attorney and he has written a book about the cancel culture. Let me try to get you the name of the book because it's on preorder, and I ordered it immediately. My orders, where are they? God darn it.

Why is the Amazon a little bit easier? Coddling of the American Mind? No, this is his old one. Coddling of the American Mind is his old one. Look at the one that's new. It called cancel culture or something like that maybe you get that for me ben and uh it was really interesting because you know one of the pushbacks on complaints about cancel culture is go ahead we got it ben's got the name of the book the canceling of the american mind that's it and there's a there's a post script on that too it's what is it cancel culture undermines yeah trust and threatens

us all okay cancel culture threatens trust and can threaten cancel trust and threatens us all uh and he you you should listen to the interview because he's very clear, very thoughtful. He can paint broad pictures that are rather complicated, and one of his points was, and I wanted to hear your thoughts on this, was, yeah, of course, this First Amendment is something guaranteed by the government, but that there is a reality of culture, that the culture that does not respect free speech very soon turns into a legal system that doesn't respect free speech. And this is something that Alexis de Tocqueville pointed out in 1830 that I've said for a long time, which was that we have some of the greatest privileges of free speech prescribed in the law.

But he said in 1830, he said, but the reality is the effect of what he called the public square makes it impossible to express your free speech because you will get crushed by the public. And by the way, his also, de Tocqueville also said, what was the greatest threat to the American system? Lawyers. He said lawyers right he said i've never seen a country with so many lawyers when they play such a role

uh i i i used to that caught my attention but i and i used to be worried about that now i i feel like lawyers could potentially be our solution you know i there is a there is a world where i and this is one of the reasons i've never left the law as many times as there we have reached the point in america where the the kind of our you know i always wanted to be a priest and this our kind of church if you will the american church is really the law in the courts wait say that again the the did you say i always wanted to be a priest i've always wanted to be a priest how did i not know that about you well i was i theology and and the sociology of religion were were my studies in college. And I came very close to following a professor out of college who got appointed to the dean at the divinity school at one of the Ivies.

And the archbishop of the Armenian church told me at the time, we got enough priests. We need more lawyers. He was very kind of prescient that way. That's so funny. Isn't it? But there is – I've heard the argument that America has really kind of – the American system at least, the legal system has kind of supplanted the theological, if you will. Oh, that's an interesting idea. And that lawyers have become kind of the priest, if you will, with the –

I've heard people compare judges to the kind of the theocracy. There is an argument that can be made there. If that's true, you guys need to kind of address that you know what i mean well i i will tell you that i've watched it in the criminal law for a long time where there there was almost an ideological split decades ago and where prosecutors went or became very ideological on one side and the defense was kind of ideological on the other, as opposed to, you know, one of the things that my father always made a, I thought, a compelling argument about is that lawyers should be trained more in the military system of code of justice where you can be a prosecutor one day and a defense lawyer the next day oh that's interesting

understand it yeah you don't have that there's always in the at least in the civil and criminal justice system that you don't have that kind of uh plaintiff's lawyers like to be just plaintiffs prosecutors like to just prosecute it's a rare prosecutor who makes the transition to the defense and vice versa interesting well i i worry about that but but but what gives you pause about that because humans seem to have a need for some kind of spiritual something. And unless there is sort of a – you mentioned ideology, but ideology is too humanoid. You know what I mean? It's too –

I agree. And I use that. I probably use that in a very restrictive way. It's not as – I need a word that's more expansive that covers it. way. It's not as expansive. I need a word that's more expansive that covers it. Yeah, I'm not sure what it is. And it has to have a foundation in something transcendent for humans to respond to it. And that's just the way we are.

We just need to have some sense of purpose other than our own little, you know, our big narcissistic brain. It's interesting you mention that because one of the reasons I became fascinated with theology, at least the study of it, was kind of the German Protestant others, who talked about how the human element or the human nature is to project out and have this kind of transcendent being that gives you the spiritual solace that you need. Not articulating that, not knowing that, but that was the explanation, if you will, for the idea as to why throughout history of time, there's always this kind of other worldliness that humans imbue into their, whether it's their tribe or their culture or anything else. So let me take a quick little break and then more hot Feuerbach talk. I'll move. I'll transcend into Kierkegaard after that.

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And, yeah, actually not enough is made of Feuerbach. Isn't he the one on his tombstone that says the star is above and the earth below or something? Yeah. And he influenced a lot of subsequent philosophers. And I think. Yeah, by the way, and not really, I don't know. Maybe he is now or he's had a resurgence, but not somebody who's on the front of a lot of people's minds when they talk about great philosophers or theologians. It's funny. You're right.

That's what I'm tilting at. But the reality is people that know, know his impact. You know what I mean? They know to kind of start with him. But to your point about humans needing or automatically or whatever, or maybe there is something, or we don't know if there's something, whatever it is, there's something from my standpoint, from the standpoint of humans thriving, they need to get out of their head. And the only way they get out of their head is a sense of faith

in something bigger than themselves, whatever that is, and a sense of purpose embedded in sort of transcendent something. And that transcendent something can be the interpersonal, can be just serving other people, whatever. But unless you kind of have that and then the golden rule folds right in there. And I feel like, very simply, as I'm thinking about this out loud, if the legal system made more of the golden rule as a founding sort of principle, there'd be a lot of good to be done. Well, it's interesting you say that because i was watching the series on longevity

i heard about this netflix and a couple of the takeaways are this idea of the interpersonal yeah that if you have strong interpersonal community whatever however, connection, connection, connection. That is one of the things that correlates. Yeah. Also this idea of philanthropic activity. Yeah. So you've got this idea of may not have as strong of interpersonal or it may, who knows what comes first chicken and egg, but if you're doing volunteer work and philanthropic type of activities, that that also is a takeaway as to a correlation to longevity.

So anyone that works in mental health knows this, right? And the founding principles of recovery from addiction and alcoholism, all this stuff is in there. It's just in there. People need it to really thrive and recover from bad things and make sense of their life. But back to the philanthropy thing, it's not good enough. It's good, but not quite to the point where it's going to affect longevity and thriving to go ladle soup at a homeless kitchen or just give money to philanthropic or found grandiose philanthropic endeavors.

It requires you, one human, helping another human. This back to that interpersonal part, the real thriving occurs when one person offers something meaningful to another. You're saying you're nodding your head. Right, because I was going to say, and that was kind of my takeaway from the the blue zone series if you will is that there are not one-offs you don't just write a check yeah that's right um you have to it's kind of a repeat it's part it becomes part of the fabric or uh imbue your dna so to speak well let me let me take it one step further because aristotle noticed this, right?

He was trying to understand what he called eudaimonia, that we incorrectly translated as happiness for many decades. It's actually thriving, he meant, like flourishing, that kind of thing. And well-being, those sorts of words are more in the eudaimonia category. And what he suggested, and I think he was spot on, is that for real eudaimonic happiness, you need to serve another person, but you need to have, in order to do so meaningfully in a way that gives you that eudaimonic fulfillment, he called it techne, you had to have skill, and he said phronesis, wisdom. And then folk, and I would add, you've got to pay attention to the other person and really

give them something they need, they want, that's purposeful for that person. And I'm sure you can appreciate this as an attorney because you have a skill and you have a wisdom. And you offer this to people all the time. And so you have this readily. You're doing this all the time. And I know this as a physician because I'm like, oh, I got that part covered. I'm aware of that when you think about it. Well, and part of what you do, and I tell the

young lawyers that either work for me or that I talk to, part of what you're doing with a jury, by the way, is you're trying to get the jury to understand that and want to tap into this idea of helping the client, this idea of reaching out and understanding where your client is at, what their predicament is, and being able to empowering them to help and to right or wrong, so to speak. And all of those philosophical kind of truisms, if you will, come to play when you're doing that. And it's the same thing with what medicine does, I would imagine. Yes, for sure. Because that's in its purest sense.

Yes, you have to really attune to the person across you. I'll tell you a quick story and then we'll wrap this thing up and I'll get back to Greg Lukanoff next show. But I was the object of that kind of service once and man, it catches your attention. It was Adam Goldstein, DJ AM, if you remember that guy, he died of addiction subsequently. But he was a terrible drug addict

when he was younger too and he had a wonderful recovery for a long time. And I would send him people to help me and he would go to the mat with people and he was a very, very capable recovering person. It was really, if you remember, he got in a plane accident and he got burned and then doctors gave him pain meds and then benzodiazepines. Doctors killed him plain out. That's what happened. I don't know who they were. I don't want to point fingers, but that is what happened. In fact, his former therapist told me that one of the doctors said, when are you going to stop listening to these people that are trying to brainwash you? I'm your doctor. You need

to take these medicines and listen to me. Dead two weeks later. Dead two weeks later. So there you go. But he was on Loveline one time, and he came in, and he had some interesting shoes on, some Nikes. And I go, damn, I like those and he had some interesting shoes on, some Nikes. And I go, damn, I like those shoes. He goes, I'll get you a pair. And it stopped me in my tracks because I thought, oh, I do really like those shoes. I didn't even notice it myself. But when he brought it to my attention, he was calling forth something real about me,

that I had a feeling about those shoes that even I didn't identify. And I thought, wow, that is powerful. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. It could embarrass me. I'm like, no, no, come on. Thank you. I really do like those shoes now that you mentioned it, but please no. He goes, no, no, I'm going to get you a pair. I go, please, please. Shows up the next day with a pair of shoes. And I was so humbled by that. I said, I can barely accept these. He goes, please accept these because being of service to you, paying homage to something in you today is what keeps me sober today. I pay tribute to somebody every day and that's you today. Please accept my gift. And it just will knock your feet out from under you

when somebody has that kind of giving and attunement, right? I love it. Yeah. I love it. It's a great story, isn't it? We'll continue this conversation. Yes, we will. We're going to keep it going,

but I want to get back to the culture of free speech and what the hell is going on in this country. Mark Ergos, Dr. Drew, we will see you next time and just say for the moment, Mahalo. Mark Ehrgost, Dr. Drew, we will say see you next time and just say for the moment, mahalo. Dive into true crime on Pluto TV. Unravel the mysteries with forensic files and 48 hours.

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