The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #1975 Zem, Zim, Zippity Doo
Episode Date: February 14, 2025Adam and Dr. Drew start strong, giving Bill Maher credit for finally catching up to Adam in complaining about California. They opine on the hate in America right now, President Trump’s new gender la...w, and finish up watching their favorite Super Bowl commercials.
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Recording live at Corolla One Studios with Adam Corolla and board certified physician
and addiction medicine specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky.
You're listening to the Adam and Dr. Drew Show.
Yeah, get it on, got to get it on, trust me, get it on, mandate, get it on, Dr. Drew's
board certified physician, Dixon medicine specialist.
Drew, you sent me, I think it was Bill Maher talking to his show about the end racism thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he was supporting your point of view.
Well, everything he says is stuff I said 10 years ago.
No, I know, but he gets there.
He gets there, which is good.
Good, yeah. I don't fault anybody for taking their time, but it's the ones that don't change
that I'm troubled by. Yeah, and then of course the liberal reporter lady was like, well, what's wrong
with this? It's always what's wrong with it. It's like because it perpetuates something that doesn't
exist, and it does nothing. I mean, and it's also,
I've been screaming about this for a million years.
And maybe I see it all through the lens of my
feckless family.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Maybe.
I understand what is going on
because I lived with these people.
And I understand how they work
It's satiating to them. They they make no change
They affect nobody and they do nothing but they talk about stuff and when they talk about it
They satiate themselves and so then they don't do anything because they go, we already worked on this.
Right?
So then people go, well, what's wrong with them saying, you know, people need to... And
we should stop this and end hate and stuff like that, because there is something wrong
with it. It leads to no action because it has a satiation feeling to it. And that's why I don't like it. It also
leads one to believe that this is a much bigger issue than it is, which then tends to agitate the
people who are already feeling like victims and cast them into a deeper sort of spiral of victimhood,
which makes their life then much more desperate
and much less likely to achieve what they want to achieve.
So it is destructive is what I'm saying.
It locks everybody in the Cartman Triangle.
You're just bouncing around.
Now I'm rescuing you and racism.
I'm rescuing.
I'm rescuing.
Look at me.
You're the victim.
I'm the rescuer.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I've taken the very unpopular opinion to speak out against this stuff the whole time,
every time.
Now, we've gone to this weird deeper straddle of sort of nonsense, which is just we're just
going to end hate now, just gonna stop it.
And again, the hate is, first off,
like sort of who's defining hate?
You know what I mean?
Like I hate passion fruit iced tea.
You know what I mean?
Am I allowed to continue to hate that?
I hate red turn arrows that are totally unnecessary.
There's lots of stuff I hate. And there's people.
I hate Kevin Smith, you know what I mean?
So what do we do with these feelings?
You know?
And them?
And them.
Don't you understand?
And then what about like someone who pushes someone
onto a subway track?
Should we hate that person or should we have empathy?
What about his hate?
What about his hate?
Yes.
There's a Tom Brady Snoop Dogg commercial,
I don't know, it's like a 15 second ending hate thing.
It was on like three times too.
So I learned to hate this spot
because I was annoying the shit out of me.
But also, I wish these people wouldn't lower themselves to do these sorts of things,
but they get some sort of praise or satisfaction out of it.
And I'm not sure what we need, you know, again...
Process, process, we're talking about it.
Yes, no child should go to bed hungry
and everyone's the first class something,
and if one person dies with COVID, that's one too many according to Cuomo, but there were thousands who died, most of them
because you put them back in nursing homes, so maybe you were involved with that.
So how does this work again?
How do you feel about your proclamation?
I don't know if that's de Blasio or Cuomo or whoever made that one person.
By the way, where do these people all go to?
You know what I mean?
Like, via retardo, the guy was the mayor of Los Angeles for eight years.
He's just gone.
Oh, he's going to go for governor.
By the way, it shows you that these aren't substantial people.
You know what I mean?
Because now he—
A cruiser runs for mayor and then he goes and develops a bunch more property.
Yeah.
We got the Snoop Dogg Brady.
I don't know why these things hit me in a way that is much deeper than most.
They bother me they bother me more than they bother most people because I
Understand the that that the effect is much more detrimental than they think
Yeah, but anyway, all right, so here's Snoop Dogg and Brady. I hate you because we from different neighborhoods
I hate you cuz you look different. I hate you cuz I don't understand you. I hate you because people I know hate you.
I hate you because I think you hate me.
Because I need someone to blame.
Because you talk different.
Because you act different.
Because you're just different.
The reason for hate are stupid as they say.
Man, I hate that things are so bad
that we have to do a commercial about it.
Me too.
I like that he said, I hate you because I think
you hate me. Yeah, I'll buy that. That's a good one. What is so bad, like in this country, like,
what are we talking about? I mean, to me, it's nut job white chicks on the left. But other than
that, I don't, I don't, looking different. The looking different thing is so odd. It's just so,
I can't think of any feelings I have about anybody that, I don't know what I mean? Like what? The looking different thing is so odd. It's just so, I can't think of any feelings I have about anybody that, I don't know what
they mean by looks different.
Everybody looks different than me.
Everyone looks different than most everybody except for Godzuki and Chris Carter.
True it isn't.
You know what I'm talking about, right? I think.
And James von Praag looking like gay Larry Zonka.
They do look the same.
What James von Praag looks like, gay Larry Zonka.
And it doesn't mean James von Praag is gay.
No.
He just, he may or may not be.
I don't know.
He looks like gay Larry Zonka, if that makes sense.
Famous tailback from the, well, fullback from the Miami Dolphins of the early 70s.
Unbeaten.
It's a timely reference.
Well, when you see Larry Zonka and James von Praag.
That made the famous attempt at throwing.
Look at that.
That's so funny.
They have the same weird crooked smile too.
Isn't that odd?
Larry Zonka was gay.
Okay, but other than those two.
Let's see, you got Zucuki and Chris Gunn?
Yeah, I remember when you came up with that one.
This is my greatest work.
Yeah, that was your one.
This is my greatest work.
Okay, other than these two, everyone looks different, right?
You've heard me talk about it.
I find it to be the most insulting.
First off, let me tell you who kills each other. The Crips and
the Bloods. They look the same, but they kill each other. Or maybe the Hatfields and the
McCoys. They look the same. This notion of scared or hate people that look different,
it's the weirdest thing in the world. Like, first off, if you are heterosexual
and you seek a woman out, then that is different. Very different.
Than a male.
Yeah. Like, I want different.
Yeah. I don't want me.
I want different. You know what I'm saying?
I guess the flip, the sort of converse of
all this, when I think about beauty, it has no specificity in terms of race or anything.
You know what I mean? It has... Beauty, okay, here's what beauty... Can you dig something?
I'm sure I can. People love the shape of a Corvette or a Ferrari, but they don't really care what the color
is.
It's the shape that they're responding to.
I mean, they'd be happy with it in red or black or white, but it's the shape.
And when they used to do like Vanessa Williams, the first black
woman to win Miss America, yeah, with blue eyes and a little pixie nose and straight hair.
She had all the features of a Caucasian, essentially. There's certain things we like,
you know, a bosom and a hip and a nose that looks this way and eyes that look that way.
And then we can all, everyone agrees that Halle Berry has all these qualities, right?
But Lizzo doesn't, but neither does, you know, neither does Hillary Clinton,
you know what I mean? So we would much rather have Halle Berry than Hillary Clinton,
but one is white, but I'm white, but she
looks different than me, but that's in... whatever they say makes no sense,
it never makes any sense at all, ever. And yet people nod their head, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Yeah, okay. And it ends up doing more damage than good, is basically what I'm saying. Because you look different.
And also, okay, so there is hate.
NFL keeps running these commercials about hate all the time,
and I don't even,
oh well first off,
NFL doesn't know what they're doing either.
NFL is doing some version of like,
somebody's running for mayor,
they just said, I'll give everyone a dollar.
Right?
You know, it's sort of like, I don't know.
But it has to do with sewage or trash pickup
or force management or taxes or whatever.
I'm giving everyone a dollar.
So that's kind of what the NFL does.
You know?
Yeah, just here's some shit we're gonna throw out there
that's just something and who cares?
You know what I mean?
But good.
But no, what the NFL's doing is they're going,
think kindly of us.
Think of us in a positive way, please.
We're against hate. Yeah. It always makes me wonder when they do this kind of nons a positive way, police. We were against hate.
Yeah.
It always makes me wonder when they do
this kind of nonsensical stuff,
is there something under the hood they're ashamed of
or worried about?
Yes.
All the white owners?
Oh, no, it's essentially people being crippled
in their sport and then them not wanting
to pay their insurance after, you know, it's the usual.
It's something. It's Ellen dancing and then them not wanting to pay their insurance, you know, after, you know, it's the usual. There's something.
It's Ellen dancing and then yelling at everyone since the show's over.
Yeah.
That is a, it's an interesting thing because I don't have an ounce of that in me.
Dancing.
Yeah.
I don't even, I don't even feel like you should pretend to be nice.
You got that one down.
What do you guys think?
Do you like it?
You got that part?
No, but let's take at that a little bit because to your point, nice often hides aggression.
Oh my God, always.
I mean, not always, sorry.
And not always, but a lot.
And it can be a manipulation because nice is,
it's not genuine necessarily.
There are nice people.
Well, it's in, everything is in place of something.
You know, I mean, basically what I've said is like, look,
for me, all of life is one of those electronic freeway
signs, it's like, well what's wrong with click it
or tick it, because it's in place of use your blinker.
Like it's in place of floss or something.
It's in place of something that could do something.
You are taking the most valuable real estate on television,
meaning the end zone at a Super Bowl,
and you're writing nothing in it.
You could write floss.
You could write clean your air conditioning filter.
It's been a while
Most people sit home as having done it in six years It's full of fucking dog hair and lint and when they see it, they're horrified
And and and if millions of people watch the Super Bowl that said clean your air conditioning filter millions of women would go
Oh, yeah, I got to write that down. Yeah I want to go check on that during the halftime show it goes under but they
don't they just write and racism and so it's bullshit it's waste it's weight
click it or ticket is waste it could but it could something good could come out
of it but they don't do it and no I don't like I don't like nice I've dealt
with too much of it and seen who these people really are.
Yes, it's bullshit.
Well, that's why Ellen is the model of that for you.
Two people on TV danced, Ellen and Bill Cosby.
What else do you need to know, people?
Who else danced at the beginning of the show?
Ellen and Bill Cosby.
So, now we-
No, I'm not saying Bill Cosby's as bad as Ellen.
All right.
Let's take a quick break.
We'll be right back after this.
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So we've got now Trump wanting to change rules
about sports, right?
And why is keeping men, XY males, out of women's sports so controversial, do you think?
Other than it kind of...
Let's put it this way.
When they talk about putting XX transgender men in women's
sports they go, oh, wait a minute, he could get hurt.
I mean, he doesn't have the same mass and explosiveness and the muscle that a born,
an XY male does, so we can expect that.
But when you take a XY male, turn it female, turn it to a woman, then we can't say anything?
The reason why people get involved with this is it's symbolic of one side versus the other.
It's very emblematic.
It's like a mask? That kind of thing?
I don't know. What do you mean, a mask?
Mask to me is emblematic. It's a talisman.
It's just something you rally around.
Yeah, you rally around. Oh, I'm sorry.
When you said like a mask, you mean the mask during COVID.
Yeah, it doesn't work. It's paper.
No one wears it correctly and no one gives a fuck
but yes, if they rally around it and
Your refusal to wear it says something about how you think you know what I mean?
now
So it's it's symbolic. It's obviously it doesn't impact people in any real numbers
It's just symbolic.
And then so people say,
my friends on the left just go, who cares?
It's such a small thing.
Why are you getting so involved in it?
Or why would you be agitated about something
that doesn't really exist in any numbers?
First things first, they say a lot of things you know they go well
You know statistically migrants create less crime than you know and it's like yeah
And and and they contribute more with taxes and where it's like no first off you just saying shit doesn't make it true
But you've decided these things also. It's kind of counterintuitive like you come here
you live sort of in an underground economy, and you take plenty of
food stamps or welfare or whatever, you use tons of services.
Why is it you're contributing more than you or me, who are paying taxes and working and
not utilizing any of those social services?
It's a little counterintuitive to think this is how it's working.
You're such a great contributor to the economy, yet you're getting paid in cash, you know
what I mean, and not paying taxes.
But anyway, they say certain things over and over again and pretend that they're true and
they're not.
That's one thing.
But I would say the reason I push back on stuff like this is the reason they push for it,
which is to say, well, what's wrong with this?
It's such a very isolated whatever.
So I have thoughts.
Did I just see you interviewing Riley Gaines?
The clip got replayed.
I interviewed her six months ago.
I see, okay.
Okay. They do this all the time.
They go, oh, that migrant guy who, you know,
raped that 16-year-old and killed her, you know,
people who are native-born Americans create a higher crime.
And you know, my answer is, okay,
then the one time is too much.
Okay, the one guy who shares illegally,
who attacked the nursing student, who's jogging, that's
one more than we needed.
And by the way, we can't deport that guy, which is what they say also.
Right, but here's the thing.
So let's say it never happens that some dude decides that dude's a chick and then goes
and whoops up on the ladies in volleyball or MMA or whatever it is.
If it happens once, it's one too many.
That's the way I look at it, especially if you're the parent
of the kid on the team that didn't make the thing
or got the volleyball smashed into a cranium, you know.
Okay, so it's all one too many for me.
So I want zero of it.
But also, these people have a rich history
of trying to warp reality and get you to go along
with their warped sense of reality,
which then leads to greater warps of reality
and eventually legislation.
So one minute you're going, look, the person's pronouns
are they, them, Zed, you know, what's wrong with that?
You go, I don't know, I don't wanna, you know, well,
look, they go by Zed and Zim and zippity-doo.
So you need to just, what's wrong with this? Yeah, I'll tell you what's wrong with it.
Because at some point I fuck up someone's pronouns and you're getting me fired.
Yeah. That's where it goes, you understand? So this is why I would stop and fight here and not choose to fight later
when you're getting fired. You understand? Yeah. Because that's where this goes because you can't stop yourself. Right.
It goes to the cornfield, Billy and the cornfield.
Right.
Now, if I thought you people were reasonable people who knew when to stop, then I would.
And then they start getting some, you know, sex assigned at birth.
It's not assigned at birth.
You're male or female at birth, just like panda bears.
We do that, right?
We have a female panda and a male panda bear,
owls or whatever, all the same.
So what you're trying to do is you're trying to get me
to go on a journey where you kind of start,
it starts with how do you like my new red sweater?
And then you go, that's a blue sweater.
And they go, just say it's red.
And you go, but it's blue.
Yeah, I know, but I just kind of prefer it.
And you go, okay.
That's where it starts.
And you go, well, it's just a sweater, what do you care?
And then you get the,
what are you obsessed with sweaters for? It's like, no, I's just a sweater, what do you care? And then you get the, what are you obsessed with sweaters for?
It's like, no, I'm obsessed with reality, bitch, and I don't wanna go down this fucking
road, because I see where it goes.
And we went down it.
We just went down it, and it fucked everything up.
So now, I'm not going down it with you.
It's a good thing we had COVID, because I feel like it was the lesson that taught everybody
that, how far down the road they go.
Well, it let me know who was interested in power real fast.
And it was all the...
It was the Gavin Newsom's and the Gretchen Whitmer's.
They're free.
They're free to love and free to do and free to be free.
All you freedom lovers snatched up everyone's freedom
real fucking fast, didn't you?
So maybe you're not the freedom lovers
that you claim to be.
So I got a front row seat to you and the way you act.
And I always said, it was sort of like, you want to see who these people are?
Like, imagine, here was my analogy. Like, imagine you had your kids, your triplets.
They were all six years old. And you just went, and you went, let's see how this works.
And your wife went upstairs and went to bed, right?
And then you walked over to your smoke alarm
and you just held a lighter under it
until it went off, right?
And you saw your wife pop up, looked panic,
run to the closet, grab her jewelry box. When your daughter was
stumbling out of her room rubbing her eyes, knocked her over, ran to the front door, ran
out and slammed the door behind her, you went, oh, well, that's a mom that – that's a
mom who values her fucking jewelry more than her kids.
Now, thank God this was – I just held a lighter up this one. This is smoke alarm, but I see how you act. Yes
I see how gavin newsome and mayor whoever I see gretchen whitmer. I see what they how they act now
And it's scary they lock your shit down while they go to the french laundry. Yeah, they tell you you can't go
Gretchen whitmer said you can't go... Gretchen Whitmer said,
you can't go out on a boat with her husband, went out on their boat. Like, okay, now I know.
Because by the way, that's what this was to me, was just a fake smoke alarm shit. I was never
going to get it. My kids were never going to get it. I didn't give a fuck about it from day one,
but I do see how you react, Gavin Newsom. you shut the beaches. You shut down people's businesses.
And they're both still with us.
That's the part I can't get my head around.
For me, that's just mind boggling.
Because the sheep like it.
The sheep want direction.
Haven't they had enough?
Isn't it?
No, but they don't want freedom.
They wanna be told what to do.
I don't know.
That's why they become school teachers.
They don't want to compete. They
don't want this thing that you want. They don't want it at all. It's like the Middle
East doesn't want it. They want to be ruled by a dictator. They don't want fucking freedom.
It's sad. And it may be counterintuitive to you.
I fundamentally believe that people have an instinct for freedom.
They may feel cared for, some pathological, who knows what, when they get that sort of
dictator stuff from above. My mom would say she wanted freedom, but not over getting a check from the government every month. Right. Not over getting up Monday morning, going somewhere,
going to work, you know, like dealing with it, you know what I mean? So there's a lot
of those people, many more, I would say, than there were in the past.
And what do we attribute that to? Is it back to victim? Is it laziness? what is that people's default setting is is the easiest path
Always I mean how many the lottery is up to seven billion dollars because you have a bunch of fucking poor dopes
I mean you see who buys lottery tickets
Yes, it's the dumbest poorest people buy lottery tickets cuz that's in there
That's the government's version of it. Here's your way out. A worst
message ever sent by the government of all people.
Well, it's there to support the education system.
Yeah, that's why we're number one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes to the kids. It goes to the
kids. That's why the teachers never have any money and the kids never have any money. They
have to buy – the teachers have to buy money and the kids never any money that they have to buy the teacher has to buy
Supplies for the kids that don't have supply because the lottery is going. Yeah
Billions, what's the update in the press on this? Where are things going? We have state and federal legislation
What's what's the latest? Yeah, so Trump signed the executive order, which has obviously got people all bothered
But there's a lot of celebrities who are chiming in on this as well,
like Megan Rapinoe and some of those athletes are pro.
She's the worst.
But then like Caitlyn Jenner, for example, is against.
Caitlyn Jenner to me would be the perfect person
to address this because she,
you've been close stood next to her?
Yes.
She's huge.
And she knows that in her current,
as she exists as a woman
We kicked the shit out of I mean destroy women and athletes
That means when as a male one of the greatest athletes in the world and part of that was he was huge
Mm-hmm, and she is still huge
And not female huge. Mm-hmm like male huge. Mm-hmm
And so I think it's just good judgment
that she says that, Caitlin.
Well, but she is a Republican,
so they don't listen to her anymore.
Megan Rapinoe's a sort of an ingrate.
She hates, she's angry at the country.
So everything is sort of,
everything's always taking a knee for women's sports.
You know how this one is going with her, which is everything all the time. But I imagine
just mad at dad, she seems like mad at dad chick, you know. But listen, who cares? And
also, it is funny, the people that are trying
to protect women all the time are the ones
that are hurting women all the time with this stuff,
which is counterintuitive, I guess.
Although what they want is chaos,
and they won't say it, and they may not know it,
but that's what they want. They want just sort of general chaos all the time.
And also they just want to fight against whatever is and whatever would be traditional.
Anything reasonable, anything common-sense.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want... Well, everything is based... Sorry, everything was based in common sense.
This is how these things worked.
You know what I mean?
Like every thing.
So they happened.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Things were like, well, if you're going to build a barn, you got to put a lightning
rod on it because if lightning hits the barn, then it's going to catch on fire.
We just did stuff practically.
You know?
And that's how commercial travel turned into whatever it did.
It just sort of kept moving forward, you know what I mean, in a pragmatic way.
And now we're living in some un-pragmatic world.
Well, speaking of pragmatism, this caught my attention.
What's the world rugby association policy?
No idea. Do you have an idea? I see it listed here. Are you gonna keep talking? I see it listed. I'm
wondering if we have a report on that, just one of the specifics, because I
because I'm guessing they're like we would kill them. We can't have that. Oh, I
can't have women die on the rugby field. Yes
I mean those
Pacific Islanders and stuff doing the hawk. Yes, I I agree. There's the
There's a great one. There's one more great commercial from the Super Bowl that wait hold I think we have the the rugby do we
Okay. Yeah, so the current evidence strongly suggests that the reduction of testosterone levels
in trans women is insufficient to remove biological advances created during puberty and adolescence,
which is the basis for the current policy that disallows trans women from playing in
women's rugby.
Okay, so we'd kill them.
Well, or they'd kill women.
Yes. Right. The males would kill the trans... wait, wait.
No, you're going the other direction. No one ever cares about that direction. They care
about the other one. Okay. There's the Nike commercial Byron that was from the Super Bowl
where... It's long. I don't know. I'll play 30 seconds of it about you can't do this.
It's such a weird... Again, it's all... Well,
it's all the theme, which is who's saying this to women?
Well, it's back to you look different. It's very similar to that.
I don't even know what it means. It doesn't make sense. No one's saying this. I don't
know. I have a daughter. You have a daughter. Is there any world where they feel like, oh,
they couldn't do things because they're female or what have you.
I mean, I don't know any women that have any thoughts about not being able to
participate in or do it. I mean, it's a bygone. But it's real bygone. I mean,
my grandmother wore pants and went to work and didn't do, you know. I was going to say, Susan was expressing some resentment. We talked about the music thing,
which she was also saying, you know, as a woman, we couldn't do this stuff. I said,
no, no, no. I was around then. Guess what? I went to medical school, half my class was
female. They were my peers. They weren't, they didn't, nobody said anything. No, they
said you couldn't. They were my peers. And, and your dad Susan was from another era. He fucked you up. He wouldn't let you go to college. He said you were a woman stay in your place
That's what fucked you up not society. Yeah your dad
Bringing all that ancient history forward. That's the problem. All right, we'll do 30 seconds of
Nike by the way who don't care about women. They just want to
It's virtue signaling, but here it is
You can't be demanding
You can't be relentless. You can't put yourself first
so
Put yourself first. You can't be yourself first. So put yourself first.
You can't be confident.
So be confident.
You can't challenge.
So challenge.
You can't dominate.
Put yourself first.
So dominate.
You can't flex.
So flex.
You can't fill a stadium.
So fill that stadium.
It doesn't even make sense.
I announce, I pause it. I told Mike August, look, I don't know, wasting time at these comedy clubs, we should play Wimley.
You know, like, let's do a stadium.
Let's just fill it. Fill the stadium.
Let's go.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, you can't fill a stadium.
We'll fill that stadium.
Where the Rams play. Sofi, book me there. Fill it.
And what's Taylor Swift's record over there? Six shows?
You just do it. I'm doing seven.
Yeah. It doesn't make sense.
No, it never makes sense. But it's also, they tell you to do stuff, you don't do stuff. It's like,
all right, great. That's a utopian society we've created. Also, shouldn't the song they
chose, was it Led Zeppelin?
Yeah.
That's a dude playing that guitar.
Not only a dude. A dude who did a dude. Dude did a lot of stuff.
A lot of chicks. Horrible shit to women. That reckoning must come, I'm telling you.
Well, I'm just saying it's kind of funny that that's your battle anthem. Like shouldn't you
had an Indigo Girls song in the background? There's a lot of women's bands to choose from.
Or women guitarists.
You're trying to think of a woman band that couldn't do it.
Get the chick who played with Michael-
L7.
L7.
Get the belly.
Get the chick who played with Michael Jackson.
That's what I was thinking.
The guitarists.
I can tell when you're thinking,
but I know what you can't think when you're thinking it.
All right.
The end, tomorrow night in Torrance.
Two shows over there, six and eight o'clock.
Fun Rockets Bar Club place.
San Luis, playing the Fremont Theater.
That'll be February 28th, Monterey.
Coming up, the Golden State Theater, March 1st,
and then March 2nd, Napa, Uptown, great theater.
Drew, what do you got?
Subscribe on Rumble, ask Dr. Drew.
So, until next time, Adam Carolla with Dr. Drew Sayin'.
Mahalo.
Hey fans of freedom and open discussion,
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