The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #2100 - How Common Sense Became Uncommon with Sarah Rogers | Part 1

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs, Sarah Rogers, joins Adam and Dr. Drew to discuss the increasingly hostile state of political discourse in America and around the world. Sarah reflects on her time as Charlie Kirk’s lawyer, the disturbing reactions to his assassination, and her experience being present at the shooting at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. The conversation also turns to the psychology behind politically motivated violence, how easily people can be influenced by money, and the way politics can become almost religious for some.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Recorded live at Corolla 1 Studios with Adam Carolla and board certified physician and addiction medicine specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to The Adam and Dr. Drew Show. Yeah, get it on. Got to get on the choice with going to mandate you. Get it on. Thanks to tune in. Thanks to telling a friend Dr. Drew, board certified physician. Sarah Rogers is joining us.

She's an attorney. She's politicians. She's the Undersecretary of State. Keep going, Drew. I met her at the Bill Maher event, honoring him for the Mark Twain Award at the, is it now the Trump Kennedy Center? And she came up and expressed some enthusiasm for your work, sir. My one. And I have enthusiasm for what's going on at the State Department.

And I thought, you probably have questions and interest in this, too. And so I thought, we've got to get Under Secretary Rogers in here. to talk to Adam. And so here we are. Welcome. I'm very happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I've heard some of your stances on many subjects, and I feel like we're all very simpatico on those subjects. And I'm sort of curious why there's so many Americans that aren't, you know, these sort of things around free speech and big government and the heavy hand of government and all this stuff we've been sort of railing against. Since you and I sat in the same room, I have begun.

to think that most of this just oppositional Trump derangement stuff really was some kind of sciop that people fell for. Yeah. People have been brainwashed into this. And it's almost, it's not natural. It's not spontaneous. It's not rational. Yeah.

Well, just the part where they go, we need to appoint somebody the head of miss and disinformation and she's 29 and looks like Mary Poppins and is clearly on our side. doesn't ring as suspicious to people, especially when all they did was get every single thing wrong about COVID and every single day that goes by, there's just another piece of damning evidence about them colluding with the media and lying about COVID. But I'm sorry, Sarah. You talk now. What are you doing on this? So I am not the new minister of disinformation. That's not a position that we have in this administration. But I am in charge of the chunk of the government roughly that was doing a lot of that under Biden.

And I think what you've said is really important. I mean, right now we need the public, if anything, to have a functional society. We need the public to trust the government a little more than we did back before the euro when like any video that you saw online could be fake. So in an ideal world, the government would be, it's democratically elected, the kind of liberal free speech supporting. And when we have something important to say, people would give. us the time of day. The problem is when the government places that stumble the scale of what opinions are allowed on social media, when it funds NGOs that call like Charlie Kirk a foreign influence operation. And then when it funds advertising blacklisting organizations that try to get

you kicked offline if you oppose like child sex change operations, I mean, all this mania from the past administration and previously, the government rightly loses its credibility. And so what I try to do is be a candid and trustworthy and transparent messenger because sometimes we have things we do want to say that we need people to hear and why would you listen to like the theater kid who tried to take your tweets down because you questioned a pronoun or awry or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's it's an interesting grift which is you create some official sounding entity like the public, sorry, like the Southern Poverty Law. Center or something like that.

You give them all, first off. Committee for Public Safety. Right, right, right. So everything has to have an Orwellian, cheerful, euphemistic title. So if it's an NGO, it's, you know, it's kids' lives first. Yeah. Except for Somali's grifting money, right? It's Ellen dancing.

Right. It's Ellen dancing. Everything is Ellen dancing at the beginning of her show. So first thing we do is we create some sort of euphemistic. title for our organization, probably having to do with kids. Yeah. And so we call our group Kids Lives Matter, you know, and then we have get tons of people to funnel money.

But that name is probably about like grandfaces or something, yeah. Right. Or Southern Poverty Law Center, Politifact, you know, like we put facts and stuff and all these great names. And they're a title. And then we collect tons of money and we do the bidding of whoever's giving us the money, which is the Democratic Party, and then we lie to everybody. And then people, normal citizens then cite us.

They go, well, the press, but then regular folks, the Southern Poverty Law Center has Prager U is on its hit list for, you know, anti-Semitic, whatever. And they do that. And now the grift is on and now we're off and running. That's how this works. Yeah. And there's just an elaborate, like, laundering mechanism, right?

because you post something on a blog or you get an NGO to say it, and then you have your alive, like, ProPublica repeat it, and then it gets into an amicus brief that an allied NGO with overlapping funding rights, and then it might be cited in a court opinion, and before you know it, it's established knowledge. Like, there was that fake scientific study that said that black infants, more likely to die have cared for by white doctors. And this was used as a predicate for, like, all of this DEI and medicine

that had, I think, be a reason to believe actually, kind of killed people, right? And it turns out that the data in that study, the methodology of it was just tremendously flawed. But it had been recycled and reused by all these, you know, even if they weren't, even if they weren't consciously conspiring, they were all aligned organizations with similar streams of funding. And so you create this entire fake knowledge of us. Yeah. And so all you have, when I say you, I mean, one has to defend this is, you know, you can defend disease and things like that with outside sources. You can get antibiotics injected into you and stuff like that.

But your best is a good immune system. You know what I mean? And you've got to develop your immune system. Right. And so when you hear white doctors are not being as careful with a black infant as they would, you kind of have to hear that and go, really? Because that sounds like bullshit. yet. Like, that doesn't sound right. By the way, that's all you had during COVID was all this sort of,

that doesn't sound right. The guy's lecturing me about wearing a mask has his mask around his chin. Well, everyone who lectures you about mask wears a mask until they get to the podium and start talking, and then they have to take their mask off. Like, you have to be able to, you know, mask up in between bites. Okay, what, okay, please people, have a little internal compass where you can, A little gyroscope where you can kind of go, oh, well, this is clearly bullshit. Well, there's only two defenses to this, and one is active discourse, debate, and then transparency. Transparency. So freedom of speech and speech, that's it.

So ultimately, speech is what is your debate, is your only, and by the way, most effective sort of wash. It rinses this through and gets to an ascent of something approximating. reality. Otherwise, you're in La La Land. Right. But then you have to distill it down even further. Like, what is the end game? Like, you're Americans, we're Americans, we're decent, we love our country, we want to raise our family in a safe and clean environment. Like, what's your game? Like, what is Joe Biden want? Now, I get the answer is power. But are you? Are you a lot of, but are you, you really willing to be that destructive in your quest for power? And I know there's a lot of projection. It's all projection. But is it, are we really just talking about bad people? Are we

talking about misguided people? Or as I suspect, and what it looks like now, to me, drew in the last 10 minutes, is it's all money all the time, 100%. And brainwashing. Well, the brainwashing is to keep the money going. Go ahead, please. Yeah, yeah. I think there's an ideology at work. I think, and I'd love to hear Drew's take on this, because I suspect there's like some pathology and personality disorders that are drawn to this, but I think there's an ideology that wants all society reduced to the

lowest common denominator that hates whoever and whatever is successful and functional precisely because it's better. And this is the ideology that's like happy about October 7th, and not just because they're anti-Semitic. They'd be just as happy if October 7th happened in an Episcopalian suburb. This is the ideology that wants more crime in cities, right? It's the ideology that, like, taunts you if you're afraid in the park. This is a kind of leftism.

It's not every Democrat. It's not even every leftist. But you can trace this back to the 1960s where you've got people like Mao and France Spinaul and saying you should do violence to those above you because the violence feels good. And when I went up to – I approached Drew at Bill Maher's party and praised Adam Carolla. I was maxing that night on my Gen X-N-X-90s nostalgia. And one thing I remember from the 90s, I remember from the 90s, the Westboro Baptist Church.

Oh, yeah. The Westboro Baptist Church, those people who would go to funerals of dead soldiers and taunt the families, holding signs saying, God hates fags, and your son died because God wanted him dead because this country doesn't persecute gay people enough.

And no matter where you sit on the gay issue, Republican, Democrat, Christian, or atheist, everyone agreed those guys were beyond the pale, they were scum, and they're protected by the First Amendment, but they're the essence of the speech we hate. So taunting people in the aftermath at a funeral or in the aftermath of a shooting

was just beyond the pale. So I was friends of Charlie Kirk and I was his lawyer, and I see these leftists, these lowest common denominator leftists, basically online every day, like taunting and taking pleasure and the gore of that death.

And then I was at the White House Correspondence Dinner, the first one in April, where we all had to hide under the table because there was an active shooting. And it turns out, you know, the Secret Service did a great job. The president was completely safe. And none of us, the dignitaries cowering into the table, were actually in danger. But then we were evacuated from the scene of the shooting.

You could still smell gunpowder at the scene of the active shooting. And we were evacuated past this group of protesters, and they were holding signs saying, yes, you deserve to die. And I hope you burn in hell. And think about how beyond the pale of discourse, the Westbro-Baptist Church used to be. The left, the third worldist left, is the new Westboro Baptist Church, and nobody even cares. Like, think about what it takes to go to the scene of a shooting and find the people evacuating and say, you deserve to die and I wish you were dead.

Yes, agreed. Adam and I talk about this all the time, and it is the position of envy, grievance, and projection, which essentially defines the features of Cluster B personality disorders. which is, you know, massively overrepresented in our current moment. He and I have been talking about it since the 90s. When we were discussing on the radio, we were talking to kids that were being abused constantly. And I remember saying back then, these are going to be adults, and it's narcissistic injuries, it's going to create more cluster B. And I actually did a little study of it back.

They actually wrote a book, and the publisher wouldn't let me put this particular study in the book. I couldn't find a period of history. I can only find two periods of history with as much trauma. I'm sure there are others, but that I could really read about. And one was pre-revolutionary France. And you guys already mentioned, you know, have NGOs having these fancy names. Yeah, the Committee for Public Safety was Robes Pier Committee that brought the terror upon France. So, yeah, they were doing it back then.

It's the exact same thing. The mobs form when you have a bunch of narcissists and their aggression and projections get acted out collectively, the guillotine's come out. But unfortunately, when the guillotine's come out, the aggression sort of becomes unrestrained, and then everybody's on the guillotine. That's the way history plays out. And that's what's happening now. It's what happened. I just didn't know at the time about something called cancellation, and I didn't know about social media because it didn't exist. But we are definitely in that. And so, you know, how do we get it to the point where people are less tolerant of that, it's going to be very, very difficult because it's such a projection

and the envy is so powerful. I almost think the only option is some sort of religious move because religions have always, every religion you can name, has had an injunction against envy. They all warn about envy being the most destructive of human emotions because it is. I agree. Well, it's interesting. This is like its own religious fervor to have a character. That's right. Yes. That's right. Well, okay, so I'll tell you where we're at. And by the way, one quick thing. You mentioned Malba.

What about Pol Pot? Everyone forgets about him. That was the worst of the worst. And he just has gone as some sort of side note. We should be focusing on that and going, this is what happens. And he still was walked around for three decades after all that happened. I'm sorry, go ahead, Adam. No, good.

But do you guys know how Pol Pot got his name? Do you know if he got the name Pol Pot? No. He was trained in communism by French communists. They shipped him over there. And they named him, I'm not, I don't speak French. I'm going to, there's like potential politique. They named him political potential.

That was pretty good. And that's how he became full lot. It was basically European communists. And you guys mentioned at the top of the show, you know, we always hear that inconvenient theories are really foreign siops. Like Russia is the only reason President Trump could get elected. And, you know, if you, there's foreign disinformation. And that's why you can't believe any of your.

intuitions about masks. But there actually are foreign actors funding nonsense and slop in our ecosystem. Like China's funding a lot of this anti-data center stuff. And it was China and Cuba, now just Cuba, that it basically subsidized every one of these scumbagged third worldist leftists. Yeah. Like there are very... There has to be money, like Adam said. The money's coming from somewhere. So... Yeah. So money is a big bigger problem than I thought. I didn't know. I didn't know. guess I sort of learned it through divorce, but also through just, you know, the growth of injury attorneys and all this kind of stuff that that almost anyone will just sort of cave to the money. You know, I mean, I'll give you a real good example. And you no longer have to be a criminal

or morally corrupt. You know, you can just take a regular person. I've been in this situation before. You take a regular person and you go, you love this country. Yes, you love, creating jobs and manufacturing in this country, yes. Okay, we're going to come up with swag, t-shirts, and hats for your company. Good. Okay, good. If we make those in Kentucky, the hats are going to be $16 a unit. But if you make them in China, they're going to be $750 a unit.

Everyone goes, make them in China. And then you go, why? You're not American or you're not patriotic or you don't love this country. You don't love creating jobs. It's like, nah, just make them a china. Unfortunately, that's almost everyone's default setting. But you put two words together that I think are, have been rolling around in my mind for the last couple of weeks. When we're not together, my brain goes sideways.

Yes. Morally corrupt. Those are two words right now that I think if we don't wrestle with directly, and it's back into the same zone as stuff we were just talking. about, which is I think some sort of spiritual, religious, something, because the effect of morally bankrupt decision making is, it hurts people. Yeah. It's profound. Just pragmatically, it's bad for them.

And they don't seem to know it. Yes. All right. We'll take a quick break. We'll get more into this right after this. Hello, and welcome to Plutofo. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto TV. where all your blockbuster favorites are landing all summer long.

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So on to the bigger question when you're sort of discussing this as sort of a religion. and I agree it is a religion because it has all the earmarks of a religion. And why it's so rampant and so vast now when it used to be sort of pockets of it, you know. I do believe every, so every human being, you know, if you think about dogs and think about young kids, They're the same thing. They just want to do what they want to do all the time every day, all day. And that's just what dogs want to do. You don't really blame them.

They never got properly trained, you know. And kids just want to do what they want to do all day, every day. And that's kind of a, you know, default human setting. And then... Mammalian setting. Mammalian setting. Good point. Then we use religion and we use society.

And we use judging. Lots of judging. You know, that's not very ladylike, or you wouldn't go to the airport dressed in pajama bottoms. You know, we used to do a lot of collective judging, and the judging kept people, you know, a pretty short leash. You just didn't do things that would, where society would harshly judge you. And those things would be frivolous lawsuits or getting a fistfight in an airport or just dressing to get on an airplane and everything, everything from cheating. on a test to... That's moral sensibility again.

Right. Or, you know, when the guy at the corner store gave you change for a 20, but you only gave a 10, you know, that kind of thing. And we had a society that had a lot of guardrails and a lot of, you know, golden rules and things of that nature and 10 commandments and things that really kept things running tight. Like, you know, I was watching Master and Commander there day, one of the greatest movies ever. And it's like, the one guy, underclassman, just bumped the officer, and they, they lash that guy. And they were, you know, down in the captain's quarters and the sort of

doctor friend was going, do you really have to lash him? Do you really, all he did was bump the guy. Do you really have to? And he's like, yeah, I have to, because we have to keep order. because this is a real tight place and I need order. And he's like, do you want to lash the guy? He's like, I don't want to lash him. I have to lash him and everyone's going to watch because we're in it basically called it a coffin with 200 guys on it and we need order.

And they understood they needed order back then to make that kind of stuff work. And we decided. By the way, our generation was part of the problem. Yeah. We dismantled a lot of stuff. We decided, and Drew and I, Drew backed me up.

You go, oh, you can't judge. Who are you to judge me? Nobody can judge. I've said 25 years ago, fuck that. All I do is judge. All I do is you can't profile. That's all I do is profile and judge. I'm never going to stop profiling and judging.

Everyone else stopped judging, stop profiling, and now it's anarchy. And that's a lot of it. Because at some point, people are going to have to police themselves. Sarah. Well, the problem is we didn't, I see that intuition, and it's certainly true about, like, what people were at the airport and true about street crime to some extent, because we seem to have, like, some people want to legalize that. But we didn't stop judging, like, we lash people now for different offenses. Like, you guys call it this plagiarism, at Cambridge? Yeah, the plagiarism thing, yes.

Yes. Yeah, there's a British, a prominent British intellectual who was calling this morning for the computers of the journalists to be impounded so that they could be inventing. for the racist offense of truthfully covering the sky's plagiarism. Oh, right. Yeah, no, it's- No, yes, I'm sorry. It's completely mis- Yes, it is not evaporated. It is gone in an insane direction.

We think George Floyd was a hero and Charlie Kirk was the devil. That's the taxpaying family man, job creator, versus career criminal junkie. and we've inverted some sort of scale where every cop is bad and every criminal is a saint. It started with our generation. We elevated sociopaths. That's all we did for it in the 60s and 70s. All those 14-year-olds that learned to play the guitar that became misogynistic, sexual predators, and rock stars. And we elevated them to some sort of deity status.

And I'm telling you, that is where it started. We did it. And we needed to come to terms with that. Well, the problem is we've turned this into a sort of a school election, and it's kind of interesting that the Democrats are the ones who always want to get rid of the electoral college, right? They want the popular vote, right? Because if I was running for class president of North Hollywood High in 1981 and I'm going for the popular vote, well, my popular vote is no more test scores.

Right. And lunch is no longer to be a half hour. It's going to be an hour and a half. And we're serving every day's pizza day because we're running, I'm running a popular vote. And there's a lot more people who are C minus D and F students than there are straight A students. Right. And it's just become a sort of a math, which is there.

There's a lot more poor people than there are millionaires and billionaires and trillionaires. So I'll tell you what we'll do. Let's just demonize unless there's some sort of system where, and by the way, I'm all for this, you get like one vote for every $100,000 worth of taxes you pay because that would change this thing. Because right now, Elon Musk gets one vote. and my mom, who was perpetually on welfare, got one vote. And my mom would vote the opposite of anything Elon Musk voted for. So Chris Carolla in North Hollywood, California, living in her mom's house, and unemployed, would cancel out Elon Musk's vote.

And if you're a politician, you go, well, there's a hell of a lot more of her than there are of Elon. And that's what we're seeing right now. Does Sarah have a heart out, you guys? I know there was some question about that. I let me, I'm looking at my calendar. My hard out is I have an important meeting at two, so I've got to be done by a few minutes before too. So I can go like another five minutes.

Okay, a few more minutes. I'm wondering is there, you know, there's a lot of weird, I can't tell what's going on with Iran. I wonder if you have any sort of message for us to help understand what's going on there. I hear what Secretary Rubio says, and then I see all the stuff that's world. around. What can you tell us about that? You know, look, I'm best situated to talk about the stuff that swirls around.

Okay. And I'll give you an example. I remember John Stewart did a monologue, and I have the same exasperation with some of John Stewart's material that other people we know do, smug style in politics, all of that. But John Stewart did a monologue in the opening days of one of the conflicts where he noted that Iran had responded to hostilities by indiscriminately bombing civilian population centers in Arab countries nearby. And there were a bunch of smug quote tweets of this, basically dunking on John Stewart, you know, how could you suggest that Iran would kill Arab civilians? They must have really been attacking American military installations. And I saw

prominent American leftist intellectuals retweeting this. And they were retweeting basically foreign state propaganda. They were retweeting literal false information, like a map with fake American military bases on it. So the same chattering class that told you, you that if you support the president or if you doubt that the vaccine is totally sterilizing, or if you think the virus may have leaked from a lab, or if you think that there may have been any anomalies with an election where the internet was censored while the votes were cast. If you believe any of that, you're repeating Russian propaganda. Those same people are repeating the hostile foreign state propaganda about the American military,

the locations were assets, and about, you know, I'm not surprised to hear you say that, which is why I ask, because I don't believe anything anymore. I believe nothing that comes out in the press or these, in the conversations. When I find a source, you, I want to hear what I can, you know, what I can get that I can lean on because everything else is bullshit out there, everything. Wouldn't you agree? You know, but I think that the nihilism that you're tempted to by understandably by this information environment is itself unfortunate because people, the few good people in society who are truth seeking, right? Like, we want them to able to get the truth. And I think if I could put an optimistic opinion on me.

I would push back and say, this is the start. of that, that I find a source that I can rely on, and then I build from there. And it's actually healthy for me not to believe all the bullshit. You just told me about. You just told me exactly what's going on. I didn't know that. I was just hearing stuff, knowing at least enough not to believe it. I don't, you see, I don't think you need that many sources for as many things as you think

you do. Right. Drew. But see, Drew's background is academics. So he tends to be in a mode where he sits and listens and absorbs and finds professors and people that are wiser who wrote papers and things like that. And then he ingest that. Mine background is more tactile, sort of show up to the job site and solve problems, figure things out. So it's all one big building or race cars or fixing stuff.

It's all one big problem solve. But you're not reading any paper on it or hearing a lot. lecture on it. So I tend to think that you can arrive at most things, you know, like, you know, Israel bomb that children's hospital, you know, okay, why would Israel bomb a children's hospital, you know, because they're evil. Okay. By the way, it's just bad press for Israel, so I don't know. Maybe there's some weapons underneath the children's hospital. You know, there are things you can arrive at, and most things, almost everything COVID, you could be accurate about by just sort of sitting and looking at it as if it was a little engineering puzzle to fix on a job site.

You didn't have to go, I subscribe to this guy's substack. You know, you could just go, there's a place that experiments with viruses up the road, and then there's a place that sells pangolin meat, you know, okay, I'm going to go with the Wait a minute. Where is the lab? Is it in Sweden? No, it's in China. Okay, I'm not going to believe anything they say about their lab. And it's real basic stuff. And if everyone would do that, then you wouldn't have to rely on these. I found a credible source. You know, you can kind of get at the truth. If you just use sort of straight logic, I bring it up all time to Drew. But that story four years ago about the Christian students in Hawaii. harassing bottle-nosed dolphins. I go, a dolphin swims 40 miles an hour. The kids swim three miles an hour. What do you mean harassing a dolphin in the open sea? Yeah, they were harassing them. No, they weren't because you can't. Because a dolphin can swim a hundred yards in three seconds and you'll be left behind. I wish I could go out and harass a dolphin. I can't.

So use your brain. That's that. Someone's going to quote that and attribute all kind of like perversities to you. But I think What you're talking about, Adam, you speak about common sense, right? Common sense. And I think the reason a lot of people have 90s nostalgia is because 90s was a time when common sense was like a little more hegemonic. And I've actually heard the argument that common sense is right wing, so you shouldn't listen to it because it's right wing. And the reason that it's right wing is that common sense are intuitions that circulate to explain how the world is today and it's always been. And if what you yearn for is a radical communist upending of every existing order, structure, and hierarchy, then of course you're not going to like common sense.

but common sense, it turns out as a better guide to whether children or chasing or harassing dolphins. Yeah, and sort of human motivational response is we don't understand what works like, well, we'll just have a public grocery store where everything will be discounted and people will go in, and it'll be orderly and clean and people won't hoard anything. And also, we won't have people coming in from neighboring counties that make plenty of money that just want to save 30% on their grocery. It's like it's all going to go south, whether it's your clean needle exchange and your self-safe injection zones or your judgment-free kiosk in the center of town.

Like, whatever this is, shit show immediately. And you have to know about human nature. And the left ignores human nature. That's why they don't even see it. They're like, I don't think it's wrong for a hungry mother to steal a loaf of bread to feed her child. Like, I don't, well, first off, it is wrong, but secondly, that's not what's going to happen. It's not what ever happens. Sarah, any last words we know you have a meeting to make?

I have so many, and I can do this forever, but I do have a meeting. So I'm very grateful to have come on. Good to see both of you. And thanks very much. I think we can do this again time per minute. For sure. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you.

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right for you that's homeserve.com slash a ds for 50% less savings compared to renewal price boyd in florida so interesting right yes she's i knew she'd be a really interesting guest and uh so i'm glad to hear you say bring her back it's Dr. Ristamar because she's just, like I said, it's somebody you can, it's a source you can lean on. Yes. It's like, okay, let's just go to the source. Yeah, but again, like I said, you can have your own source. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

I get what you're saying. You can be your own. But look, when you were saying that, I thought to myself, oh, Adam can't be hypnotized. No, that's true. And most people can be. And that's where all the sci-up shit goes down. And that's right people get confused. And I can be hypnotized.

Even though I try to sort of not, it can happen to me. can't happen to you. I really do believe, I'll tell you, but I, you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a broken record of this, but I'm sort of fresh on my mind because we just got back from the track. The mechanical world is one big problem solving thing, and it, and it, sometimes it gets complicated, but sometimes it's like a lot of like, you know, we have to park the trailer in the other lot. So we're going to have to unload the car there and then we'll have to drive the car in, you know, and then we've got to load the trailer, but this guy's going to lend us his little quad thing. We can put some tires on the back of it and we can drive it back up to the trailer.

Like it's all sequence, problem, problem, sequence, problem solved, troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. And then your brain gets super sequential, but also like... Not enough is made of sequence. That's an important. important skill. Right. And also very problem solving and also like just a little stuff there. I had, I went out on Thursday, by the way. And there's a guy's a professional driver. And he's a really good guy. His name was Billy Johnson. He races for Ford. And he's a very good driver. And he's a driving instructor. And so I had two cars in my paddock that were both my car. One was another car, a guy wanted to drive. He was also driving another car, blah, blah, blah. He said, why

I put Billy in your car, your second car? There's a fair amount of guys swapping cars and professional drivers driving other people's cars and stuff like that. I said, that's good. But I said, you know, if you're going to be out there in my second car and you're a professional driver and you're winning, you know, he won the cobra race he was driving a cobra and won. You know, so he knows the track and he's a good driver. I said, why don't you go out there and I'll stay behind you and I'll sort of, I'll follow your line, you know, and he said, yeah, okay. And I said, why don't you just go eight-tenths instead of ten-tenths and I'll see if I can

stick with you and we'll see if we can get some lap times down as I follow you. This is a qualifying race. It didn't really matter. It mattered what your lap time was, but not where you finished. And so and so forth. And then I said, we'll do, I don't know, it's 11 laps. I go, why don't we just do like seven or eight laps and then you can just take off and have fun.

He said, yeah, okay. And we just went around and we did it. We did what we said we were going to do. And then, you know, we got out of the car. And he was like, you're going pretty good. But on turn seven, you weren't that good. So you were kind of slow on turn seven. So what are you, are you breaking?

And then it was a sort of like, don't break. You should be accelerating because unsprung weight. You want the weight shift. You don't want the weight shifted on the front tires. You want it back on the back tires. We get back on the thing. It was just a whole sort of pragmatic breakdown. T-shay.

I didn't go, you're not the boss of me, bro. Like it was like all I was is I wanted to hear everything the guy to say. And then there was all kinds of mechanical shit. My car had a fuel leak. We had to like fix it. Everyone's just fixing their stuff, doing it right on the track. And there's a real pragmatism. And everyone thinks the same.

And it's a little, it's a little army of people that are all just, it's everyone is self-contained. They brought all their tools. They brought all their materials. They're doing all their stuff. And there's no wacky pie in the sky thinking in that entire group. You talk to all of them. I know exactly how they think about everything. And then you get back to L.A.

and you have wacky pie in the sky, nutty chicks deciding everything. Right. And here we go. So it's on. Now, you, I think we wanted to talk about... Peyton Panacheira. Yeah, right. What do you know?

I, you know, I don't think there's, I don't know what people are looking for. Drug addiction, opiates, dead. I mean, that's what happens with opiates. The only intrigue to me is, did one of my peers participate as they often do with celebrities and give her the pills? That's sort of typical in my world. Naltrexone was found at the scene where she died, meaning... What's Trexone? Naltrexone.

Naltrexone. Naloxone, which is the opioid reversing agent. So somebody knew to give her that. Oh, you're talking about Narcan? Narcan? Well, call it Narcan, goofball. Sorry, I don't think of it that way. I don't care.

You've got to think about how other people think of it. I agree. And so, you know, she'd struggle with addiction. She'd honest-back-full-time. So Narcan, you're saying she just had it on her home. That's what is reported. It's not as though the paramedics left it there after the resuscitation attempt. The police, my understanding, is found it on the scene kind of thing.

Right. So is that a, is it common for somebody who may abuse opioids to just have Narcan? We always advise the family and everybody to have it on hand. Right. Makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Because this is where it goes.

Opioid, this is the part that everybody misses. Opied addiction is progressive and it ends in day. death. If you keep giving them opiates, they will die. That's it. Well, is it because they mix it with something? Sometimes it is inherent in the condition. It's just a feature of the natural history of the condition, not properly treated. Is it because your body always seems to strive and find that homeostasis? It is, to some extent, but with addiction, it's even a little different in that the wanting system the brain seems to keep progressing and wanting more, even when the patient consciously doesn't want it, doesn't like it anymore,

it may not even be knowing that they're doing it. This wanting thing just starts getting more intense. It's rough. It's really rough. And we let these people die. My peers give them opiates all the time. If indeed that she was, let's say, with an opiate and a benzodiazepine, fatal combination.

Well, that's what we're talking about. What's the benzopyeosene-a? Benzo is the Valium-like drugs, the Ativan Valium and Clonopin, et cetera. Well, how is it sleeping on opioids? Sleep always gets disrupted, which is why they get put on the benzodiazepines. The Valium. The Valium drugs. Yeah, and that's where the death comes in.

Yeah. And people are digging into now, oh, she had a domestic violence. Oh, she had abusive mom. Oh, she had childhood. Look, there's lots that goes on traumatically with being a child star. There just is. Plenty of they make it through just fine. Look at Ron Howard, right?

I mean, you can be just fine. Well, he's a little insane politically, but other than that. Right. He's not this. Yes. And people want to go, the momager, maybe it's the bad boundaries. Yeah, yeah, could be, all that. And there's one aspect that I have found in the child star experience that no one talks about

is the intensity of the environments that they get into. First of all, they're being called upon to do adult, be around adults, and their childhood is sort of aborted. They're called upon to be adults, which is itself traumatizing. But the other thing is they form these little family units in these projects, and then it's just torn apart. They just go away. And no one ever thinks about that.

Yeah, you have someone play your dad for four seasons, so then you never see him again. Exactly. That's interesting. Some of the child stars talk about that. Like, it was just, I didn't know what to do. I was cut a drift. I don't know.

Look, as far as the trauma argument, we could make that argument for a lot of people, especially in modern times when trauma is just, well, my parents got divorced, you know, like it's a lot of that, you know, or my mom drank too much. I was bullied. By the way. You weren't bullied, were you? Your bullies have told me how much.

they bullied you. I don't know what bullying is, really. I'm not I'm, I don't really know what it is. I was told to do a lot of things that I didn't want to do. To quote Ray, Adam was a sensitive kid. We took care of that.

I mean, I had a sense of humor and I was nice enough and I got abused, but that's physically abused, I guess. But I didn't, I never cared is my whole, my whole thing. I didn't think anything of it. You know, when I was hit by the two parents, struck by the two parents, I didn't think anything of it.

I didn't think to tell anybody. I didn't, I wasn't angry at them. I didn't have any thoughts about it. What is this down? I'm hit by two parents. Who? Roberta Messick and Al Lewis. I told you I was hit.

I didn't really remember this. I don't remember that. No. I was, you know, hit by the parents. Oh, by other people's parents? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. I beg your pardon.

No, when I was hit by those two parents, I would talk about, I would say my mom or my dad. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. Or my dad, I didn't go by Roberta. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, Lewis was Grandpa Munster. Right.

He hit you? Yeah, he did. Struck by Grandpa Munster. She was a picture of Grandpa. Didn't think anything of it. Just figured, eh, had a coming or something. You know, I didn't feel endangered. You didn't feel overwhelmed.

and feel shocked. No, it just felt like, you know, he's kind of a hair trigger guy. We were playing grab ass in the back of the Volvo, and so you get whacked. Yeah. I didn't have... Oh, he looks so nice, though. I know. I didn't have any...

I didn't have any thoughts about it, is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had a lot of that kind of stuff up. Did you know his grandpa? Had he been Grandpa Munster at that point? I'm just curious. No, this was 1959. No, I'm cute. I can't, I can't, I don't know when the Munsters.

Yes, you do. You realize that's a retarded question is just coming out of your mouth. Okay. The Runsters ran from like 1964 to 1969 or something. Okay. Come on, Drew. You're the 70s. Okay. Okay. See, that would have been for me, that would have been. I know, but you understand you're older than I. Yeah, I understand. I understand. I lose track of how much older I am, though. Hey, Andrew, when did you graduate high school? 81, 82? Is that?

Yeah, ballpark, one of those years. Yeah, because that's when I graduated, 82. Chuck, 81, 82, graduated from high school? Likewise. Yeah, yeah, figured that, because that's when I graduated, you know. I got a problem. Because if I, if you asked me to judge when they went to high school, I could not do it. I know, but there's a math you can do.

No, I could try, but there's something wrong with my judge. Anyway, I got hit by parents. I wasn't going to. First time, I wasn't saying a word to anybody. I didn't say anything to anybody. Yeah, of course. I didn't say anything to them. Right.

So, you know, I just sure went through life that way. But you have bullied. I never thought of it as bullied. Was Ray doing his full-scale bullying by that point? Yeah, but it wasn't. It wasn't okay compared to those guys. Oh, no, this is before Ray. Okay.

But that wasn't full-blown. So we didn't call it bull-blown. We rough-housed in a very aggressive manner. Rough and tumble play. Yeah, this was exquisitely rough and exquisitely tumble play. Usually above concrete. We didn't, yeah, we didn't really show, there was no quarter given. I remember when we'd broken into the Jonathan club, not the Jonathan Club, the Mulholland Club,

When we'd broken into the Mulholland Club and we were running around the pool and we were beating on each other and peeing on each other and all this kind of, all this stuff, at some point, our friend Tom, who was chasing Ray or getting chased by Ray or something, fell, got his foot caught between like a spaghetti lounge lounge chair and sort of rolled his ankle and sort of got his foot caught up in it and tipped over on the lawn. lounge chair and was down and was apparently badly injured. And then, you know, Ray came up on him. And we all came up on him. See, George, don't do that. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Tell a story. Go ahead. Go ahead. And he was on the ground. He was riving. And we were kind of going, he's going, now, come on now. And it was like, he seems hurt. Like, he seems legitimately hurt. We saw him kind of eat shit, you know, and he looked like he went down kind of hard and whatever. And I remember, like, kind of looking at Ray

and Ray's sort of looking at me and it's like, rules are rules and he just took a piss on him. And it's like, sorry, that's how we roll. It's like the military, like master and commander. That's right. Game of lashing.

Except for he was a black guy, so. But it was funny. Our only black friend was rich. and we would go to his house all the time just to eat all his food and watch his TV and yeah he yeah we got into we got into with everybody hard real hard

all the time when I think about you guys rough housing I always imagine poolside and I always imagine the concrete that you were sort of probably knocked onto repeatedly you know and then jumped on I don't know why that's in my head Well, because all we did was battle.

Yeah. Well, we would go to Tom's house. All we would do is he was our rich friend. He had a swimming pool. None of us had a swimming pool. He had a diving board that extended out. And we stood and grappled on the whole deal was who's throwing who off the end of this diving board. And we would just do it endlessly.

Saturday night, do it for three hours to stand. One dude stood at the end. And you just locked up and you started way. on each other. That's toxic masculinity. Don't you understand you were practicing it? One had to hit the water first. It's just rough and tumble play, man. It's what mammals do. Male mammals. Yeah. I would argue when we got hold of an air rifle and Tom loaded it with a wooden match stick after he went berserk because of another situation.

involving urine, but I was hiding in the bathroom. No, I wasn't hiding in the bathroom. I was sitting on the toilet, and he kicked open the door, and he put the barrel of the air rifle against my chest. I was shirtless, and he had a, and he just fired this big wooden match. And I still have a little, like, round scar. You could have gone through your chest. Now, but it was good enough to leave a mark. And then Mark is with her today.

You deserved it. I don't care. I mean, maybe I did, maybe I didn't. But he, you know, it was time to get him. This was Tom, Thomas. There were a core group of nuts, and then there were a handful of guys that got kind of dragged in, but they didn't really understand the rules. They didn't know they were going to get urinated on. That's what they didn't figure out.

All right. Tomorrow, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 730, doing a show over there, hyenas, and then a couple of shows. on Friday at hyenas, and then Saturday, Tucson at the Rialto Theater. Going to be in Tampa at the motor enclave. That'll be Friday, August 28th. Go to Amcrowl.com for all the live shows. What do you got, Drew? Ask Dr. Drew on YouTube and check out Facebook as well.

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